“How The Salad Gets Tossed” (w/ Matt + Bowen)

Lots off big news in culture! Cole won a Tony! Cynthia crushed as Tony’s host! The winner was Nicole Scherzinger! Our hosts Matt + Bowen discuss all this, Nicole’s pop culture significance at large, the Fifth Harmony reunion and what may have happened with Normani’s solo efforts, and Benito Skinner’s Overcompensating. Also, Becca’s experience at the Puerto Rican pride parade, Bad Bunny for Calvin Klein, “Manchild” by Sabrina Carpenter, what kind of subs we are, and the stories we tell ourselves about other gay men.

And that’s not all! All this, And Just Like That, the crazy art that trade sometimes displays during my lovemaking, how Elphaba can be beautiful art, and that thing of putting a towel down on the bed before you FRUCK. Thanks for selling out The Culture Awards! Now go stream Sabrina Carpenter for once!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look mare, oh, I see you my own and look
over there is that culture. Yes, goodness lost culture lost,
culture calling. They've had a full day, the two of them.
I want you to know how hard we are at

(00:21):
work on the Culture Awards.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
We are busting our ass holes holes. I am a
crater down there because of Culture Awards in the best.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Way you know I have been. So I'm just going
to get into it because because one of the things
talk about sex, I was gonna say, I've been so horny,
great have you? No?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I actually need to talk to my therapist about this
moment because I get horny through travel and then I
realize that the wires are all a little bit messed up,
so full disclosure. When I was in London, I was
just like, you know what, back in the day, I
would frequent a bath house every.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now and then.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
So I went to the sweat box, which is and
then immediately once I got to the showers downstairs and
got recognized by some lovely DC gay.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I can't do it, And I was like gotta go. Yeah,
that's tough. Joel. I think Joel Kim Booster had a
joke about being too famous for an orgy, right and
I was like, oh Joel.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh, Joel could now possibly relate to him his sixcabades,
and now I do final M.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I mean it was it's it's a good thing. I
guess it means careers are going great. You know what's
funny to me, like like when I physically get tired,
I actually am a lot hornier. I don't know what
that is. I remember back in the day when I
would like jam this this schedule with like morning activities.
I would just get home and I would be physically

(01:57):
very horny. But that's hard to reconcile with being actually
like totally sapped by the day. But because your body
is like ugh, I want to like engage in the act,
but you're like emotionally like, but I can't like call
someone over because that's a huge part of hooking up
is actually getting someone over is the movements. M h.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's like the literal movements of bodies. Good luck AI
with that. I say, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
One thing they can't take. Well, I guess they could.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't know. A fucking a robot to me will
never have the same just I'm just I'm just I'm
just taking it all the way to like the fullest
potential of this apparent technology, like a hole.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
As a whole.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
But I also feel like it's just something about it
being a human connection to me at least that at
least like I'm still there with sex where I'm like
it cannot be disconnected from even though I just said
I went to a bathhouse.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
But even then, I like, it means, well, you hope
to make a friend. I helped to make a friend.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well it's got to be a If there's a robot
in the bath house, I go, well, good luck, you're
gonna fritz out in about two seconds with this steam
in this place.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, this isn't gonna go well for you, sister, I say,
I remember when was Phoenix noted with Scarlet Johansson though
in the film her, the seminal film.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Her, but her voice was so good in that I'm
just saying Chold's voice. Well, it's it was Scarlet's sexual tambour.
Oh my gosh. I just want to say I love
Scarlet's vocal journey through her career. Like if you go
back and watch Ghost World end and lost some translation,
it's like it is at a different octave. And I
do love that it's sort of developed this like depth

(03:34):
over the years.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
We have to have her on to ask about her
vocal journey. Yes, I think, and the title of that
for the Scarlet Johanson episode whenever it happens is already
vocal vocal journey. But I just want to say to
your point about the energy, like I am always I'm
gonna say horny and theory. Then it's it gets.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
To that point in the conversation where let's say you're
on a nap on a hookah app when discussion opens
up about movements about who should go to whom. Yep,
that's when I'm like, oh, actually, to call back to
a cold School episode more on Cole in a minute,
we we go emergency with my closest friends.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
I just realized I'm having an emergency with my closest
friend friend. But that's a date. That was a date
that was different. That's a date thing. But I mean
it could be a sex thing if it's you're sure.
But there's sometimes when like, yeah, it just all falls apart,
when even the second the reality is introduced and they're like,
why is Ai taking over? Oh my, oh my god,

(04:33):
you know so speak about Cole here's the thing about
cole Cola Skull is a Tony Award winner, a most
deserving award of all time. I mean, and you know
what was so great about it was I obviously, you know,
saw them hit the red carpet looking stunning, and just

(04:55):
there was something about seeing them on the carpet and
I just had to sit back and I really got
emotional because it actually reminded me about the entire reason
why I love coal in the first place, why they've
always been one of my heroes since when we started comedy,
was because they remind you that there aren't actually fucking rules.

(05:19):
Uh huh uh huh. It's like, there is no fucking
rule as to what you're supposed to wear, what you're
supposed to create, how you're supposed to do the decorum
of the award show. It actually reinspired me for the
Culture Awards. I was like, right, exactly if they ever
had a big fucking idea, they went for it. I'm

(05:40):
sure there are always checkpoints, like there are for everyone
about like ooh is this weird? Is this too much?
Are people going to get this? But screaming the word
yes to your big idea and what your instinct is
is what reminded me the other night, like why I
love coal and why coal is so special and important
and I'm so fucking proud of them. It couldn't happen

(06:00):
a better person.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think it is amazing to think about Cole school
of beating George cluding it was.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
A wonderful little little box moment at the award shows.
We love George. Love George. At the Oscars for Theater.
The Oscars for Theater, that's the Tony Awards. I mean,
it's real culture number fifty that the Oscars for Theater.
That's the Tony Awards.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
But just to place last night's Tony's as another sort
of coordinate in the plane of award shows, that was
a fantastic program top to bottom, so fucking good, and
it flew by to me, I was like, oh, it's
already eleven, okay.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean someone said earlier like the Tony's are the
best award show and I was like, oh yeah, and
I'm thinking of it, like I'm glad they're excited. And
then I was watching it and I was like, no, actually,
it is the best award show because it's literally built
around incredible live performance and people that are incredibly capable
on screen of executing this stuff reliably day in and
day out. So just to know that just around the

(06:57):
corner was another sleigh of a performers was, you know.
And to have Cynthia threading the whole thing so poised, elegant, talented,
The standard of excellence is already so high for her,
and she manages to rise above it and raise the
bar again and again and again. The humor felt like
totally in the pocket, just really good.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Ten out of ten I think for Cynthia, I think
for the whole show. God that in Memoriam was a
fucking punch to the gut. Yeah and everything Canthya getting
two applause breaks on her jokes while she was in
the mezzanine. I think both about Jonathan Graff spit like, yeah,
that is that's delivery, capital D delivery.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, she was excellent. And also the way to open
a show is always debated, like we're even debating it
right now, and you have to be so excellent to
open a show like that with an original song, because
you have to make sure that not only is the
person like incredibly good at you know, executing live television,

(08:02):
but it's a song no one's heard, and to get
that across. Just the way that she communicates as a singer.
There's so many things to say about how brilliant she
is as a vocalist. But what I was struck by
was she's communicating like a new story and a new
idea to an audience. And at the end, we were
watching in our friend's house, we were like applauding. We
were like, yes, yes, this song that we will remember.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
It was truly truly fantastic. I'm just gonna say something,
even the purely stuff, I was like, I love it,
go off purely. If any company is gonna like own
a lot of real estate at the Tony's, the fact
that it's an iced tea company, I go, why not?
There really could be worse things, Oh.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Absolutely, and there are. There's so many worse, so long
than than than purelyfic tea having a lot of real
estate on the Tony Awards, for example, famine get so
much worse, so much worse, so much even with in
in the same conversation, you're joking, you know what I'm saying.
You must be kidding.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Oh, I guess it's the only real note that we have.
But this is just in terms of, like, this is
something that they couldn't have possibly forecast in terms of
vibes and playing everybody off, I think could have just
been traditional. I appreciate what they were trying to do,
build it into like Cynthia's monologue, but I think just
a standard little orchestral even a track could have been

(09:20):
just fine. But I think it was just a mismanagement
of like what that would be like, and like the
vibe of the room, which you can never know until
the day of, especially at a.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Time like now where there is a lot of urgency
in terms of what people might say in these speeches
and people might want to like leave and end on
something really poignant. To build into the show that you're
actually going to cut people off, even with a joke
is kind of not really the move, and I haven't
seen it work in recent Awards shows, so I'm surprised
they tried it here. Finally, we have an end to

(09:51):
the debate of who's winning Best Actress in a Musical.
It was Nicole. I applaud this. I mean, I think
both of their performances. I thought Nicole and Auder's performances
were the highlights of the evening, and I think you
saw plain as day why they were the ones that
were being talked about the whole time. I would have
loved to have seen Boop a performance from Boop because
Booth is a lot of fun and Jasmine Amy Rodgers,

(10:13):
had she won, it would have been totally justified. The
girl is so fucking talented and so good in this show.
But Nicholes, as if we never said goodbye, was truly
the performance of her career. I mean, and she's performed
live on television so many times in so many memorable ways,
in a variety of ways, but that you could tell

(10:37):
her entire career had led up to that moment. And
I'm so happy she did that song because she's like, no,
I'm going to do the song from this show. I'm
going to give it. And similarly to Audra, I had
been really wondering which number from Gypsy they were going
to do. I was nervous that they were going to
do something like some people and missed the opportunity to

(10:58):
really show what McDonald is made of. And when they
pulled it up the curtain and it was Rose's turn,
and I was like, oh, here we go. And I
mean she did not disappoint She gave all of herself
plus half. I mean it was sick. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I mean so many things about we're recording this on Monday,
so many things about last night felt historic. I don't know,
it was just like, oh my god, it was just
like different threads of history being braided together, where it
was like you have someone like Audre, you have someone
like Nicole who feels like a vet but kind of
is still just kind of making her mark on theater.

(11:37):
I feel like even like Michael Arden winning, it's like, oh,
this is your rewarding someone who has put years and
years and years into like executing his vision on Broadway
so many times. I don't know, just was a cool night.
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
He's so brilliant, Michael Arden. Like I saw maybe happy
ending and congrats to Darren Chris on his super well
deserved a war as well, Like the fact that he
did Parade and maybe Happy Ending like two years in
a row is like, Okay, that guy can do anything.
And that's while saying I would have been just as
excited for Jamie Lloyd to win for Sunset Bulevar at

(12:11):
a show that like blew me away and so happy
that one for best Revival. Yeah, just like so much
excellence going on. And I read a statistic that you
can never really take highest grossing to mean anything, and
nowadays because all the prices are so much higher, like
so it's kind of like to say that something was

(12:32):
the highest grossing year on record doesn't really mean anything
anymore because everything is so you know, prohibitively expensive. But
I also read that it was the best attended Broadway
season in a lot of times, so it means that
there were the most butts in seats, and it does
feel like there's a renewed energy around it. And it's
been a really good, solid few years for Broadway, which

(12:53):
is obviously a good thing. And it means that we're
coming to ruin it and we're coming to Broadway in it.
The second you think it's gonna be good, we're coming.
We're coming, We're hitting the stage. You know what we

(13:14):
were talking about last night? Did you remember this? After
Nicole's performance, I was like, people, forget the number of
times she has been iconic.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
You need to educate everybody on this because this is
something I was never familiar with, but I need to
know now.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Do you guys remember that Nicole Scherzinger. So for years
she's had to be a chameleon because she started out
as a reality show contestant on Pop Star. She got
in the group Eden's Crush. Cr Oh like Yourself good?
That song they had like that one hit. There was
like a period of downtime she was in the Pussycat
Dolls and I remembered her from Eden's Crush. Even then,

(13:47):
she's obviously a huge success as the member of the
pussy Cat Dolls. Then that ends, she tries her solo career.
It goes ify in everywhere but the UK, where she
becomes like a thing. So she's a Judd on UK
x Factor in such a significant way. And Simon likes
her so much that they tried to do US X
Factor and she's a judge on that with Paul Abdul,

(14:10):
l A Reid and Simon Cowell and there's a moment
this is pre Brittany, right, this is pre Brittany. Yes,
this was the first season of US X Factor and
it was Nicole. Okay, it was Nicole Scherzinger was a
judge and she there was a thing at the end
of US X Factor where the bottom two vote getters.
It wasn't revealed who got the lowest voids votes, but

(14:31):
they would have to have like a sing off, and
then the judges would decide based on the sing off
who was going through to the round. And I remember
it's this. It was at the time. She was ten.
Her name was Rachel Crowe. Her name is Rachel Crowe,
and she sang I'd rather Go blind by Eda James,
a ten year old and she gave it. She sang
it like a fifty year old woman, and she gave

(14:54):
her entire life. And then the other guy sings whatever
his name I believe was Marcus, and then they go
to nikolsher and she's supposed to make this decision between
the two of them, this ten year old girl who
had just given everything to this song, and Nicole can't
do it. She's like, I can't. I have to put
it to the public vote. And they put it to

(15:15):
the public vote, and the ten year old girl loses.
She her eyes widened and shot. She hits the ground
and she's screaming at her mother, you promised me. And
it cuts back to the judge's table and Nicole Cherzinger
is in hysteric sobbing in Paula Abdul's arms while Simon

(15:35):
Cowell looks on and he realizes that the US X
Factor has failed. They cut to the commercial and it's
a Pepsi logo and that the show ends, and the
word Pepsi couldn't have been bigger. I said, this was
the most that was her last iconic moment. Then I
guess she, you know, did Mass Singer, and then she
did lots of things on the on the UK West End,
et cetera. But I'll never forget that moment in her

(15:58):
career because in last sitting there, I'm just thinking about
the totality of Nicole Scherzinger and it is so many things,
but that is a top five Nicole Scherzinger moment for me,
a person who has a top five Nicole Scherzinger moments list.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yes, now, Simon Cowell, they cut to him. He realized
he has a gaze that implies that he understands that
it's all.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
But then they would come back the next season with
Brittany mm hmm, and fifth Harmony was created. I think
was that the last season of X Factor. I think
it only had two seasons, maybe it had three I'm
actually unclear because Demi Levado was on that too, Yes, yes, yes, okay,
so this is what it was because it's the second season.
Aves Factor had Demi Levado and Britney Spears both and
La Radio. Yes, and that's when Fifth Harmony was created

(16:47):
because there was a moment where Demi Levado says, only
one of you was giving, and Chloe Kardashian, who was
added as a host, this is a fucking mad lib
goes to Demi Levado, Wait, who did you think was
the one that was giving? And Demi Levado just sits
there and points to Kamila Cabello and says her wow

(17:08):
you wow wow, And the rest of the girls in
famth Harmony sort of look at Kamila, who's.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Like, we haven't really responded to I have not really
looked into the details. But thoughts on the reunion besides
sans Kmilla, I mean, I.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Get why they're doing it, uh huh uh huh. The
normany of it all continues to completely blow my mind.
I do not know how that didn't work out as
a solo thing.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
I know, it's it's interesting, huh. It's like, in a way,
what was her name Susan Crow, Rachel Crow, Rachel Crow.
First of all so many things. I think of Gypsy
when she screams at her mother you promised. Oh, I
also think of this, this idea that like this is why,
like Cole winning a Tony is so incredible. It's like
nothing is nothing is promised, especially in show business. But

(17:58):
just in terms of the normal, I'm connecting all these
dots very haphazardly. But in terms of Normani and the
phith Armony reunion, it's like, like, why that did not
take off the way that we all hoped it would
and wanted it to in some ways? Is that Harber
can only get you so far, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
But the thing is like, I think she did work
her fucking ass off. I just think she didn't like
her thing that succeeded right right, because what I had
heard was motivation popped off and everyone was like, oh
my god, Normani is here, like it is about Normani now.
And she thought it was too pop, or she didn't
think it was R and B enough, It wasn't the

(18:37):
type of artist that she wanted to be. She didn't
even like the video, you know what I mean? All
the really, you know. Successful elements of that were her
being like, well, I don't want to be well known
for these things, Like I don't like what this is,
so I guess you kind of have to respect, Yeah,
someone who's like, look, I understand that this is gonna

(18:59):
be the thing, but I yeah, Like I was just
this is the most random pull ever and it's one
of the gayest transitions of all time. I was watching
an interview with Brenda song Oh Love, and she was
saying years ago, like, apparently she booked like the lead
of this huge film franchise, but at the same time

(19:21):
got offered the like two scene role she had in
Social Network, and she was like, I want to work
with David Fincher even though this is a small part.
I'm not taking the lead of this franchise. That I
guess her agents had busted their ass to get her,
and then as a result of her making that decision,
they dropped her. But now she's a part of the

(19:43):
Social Network, which is one of the most relevant films
in pop culture at that time, and you know, probably
in the last couple decades, you know what I mean.
So who's to say she didn't make the best decision holistically. Also,
she made the decision that she was going to stand
by so with the normany of it all, it's like, yeah,
I mean she had a huge hit and something that

(20:04):
looked to everyone else like it made sense. But if
it didn't make sense to her, then maybe that's the question.
That's the answer to the question of like what happened there.
It's just she didn't want to be that.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, these are these are these are vital questions for
anyone to ask themselves, including us.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, like do we I mean yeah, yeah, I mean
it can actually maybe I'll speak to something. So it's
it's funny because did you see last week. I don't
even know if I should be going here, but I'm
gonna go here. Go Like last week Andy had on
Hoda watch and and he was he threw your name
out there. He threw my name out there to take

(20:43):
over for Jenna, I mean, not for Jenna, to take
over with Jenna, and Hoda was like, yeah, Matt Rogers
is great, And all of a sudden, I was I
was sitting there watching it and I was just like,
oh my god, they're talking about me to this job.
And I thought that it was like it was really
interesting because I was like, oh, I thought everyone was
just being nice by saying, oh, you should do this permanently.

(21:05):
You should do because because they say that on like
if you go to like the Today Show Instagram, it's
like every time there's a guest job, there's a there's
a guest it's like they should be permanent, they should
be permanent. So much I thought that was just like
a silly thing that people were saying to be nice
to me, and I did think it went well. But
then when they were talking about it up there, I
was like, Oh, that's so interesting to have people talk

(21:26):
about something that you should be doing or you're right for,
or like you know that no one's even asked me
if I would want to do it totally.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
On the one hand, it's like a compliment. On the
other hand, it is this like total compliment. But on
the other hand, it's this kind of like quote unquote
fan casting that like could make you feel a certain way,
you know what I mean, And it's like it's it's
like not up to it's not in your control or
it's not even up to you, like what the outcome
is or like what the conversation, what the tone of
the conversation is does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yes, well, it's I think you probably experienced well, I
know you experience it. We do not have to get
into it, and we won't. But I feel like SNL
is also one of the only jobs in entertainment where
a lot of people can weigh in about, like who's staying,
who's going, who's getting hired, who's getting fired, why are
they leaving? And it's really interesting. I think for that

(22:16):
to be an element of like what you do as
a job. You know what I'm saying, it's kind of interesting.
It's I'm not saying it's good or bad. And I've
participated in speculation like that obviously, Like we have this podcast,
you know what I'm saying. Then suddenly when it's something
that's knocking on your door, you're like, oh, wow, Like

(22:37):
it's just interesting, it's a new feeling. Yes, how do
you feel in that feeling? Wow? Did you see that
text we just got? Yeah, we gotta be a fun text.
Someone just confirmed for the Cultural Awards and it's gonna
be a lot of fun. Someone we don't really know
that well, I know, but I'm excited. There's lots of
exciting things happening.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
We are really, really, really committed to making this a
fun show, and the artist pre sale went out very quickly.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
We're so grateful.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
We're sorry if it was frustrating for anybody in terms
of procuring them. But the sort of end goal of
all this is that this can be shared with everyone.
We've said this in the past, but I think it
bears repeating that it's gonna be great.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Everyone's gonna be pleased. It's gonna be the most fun.
Thank you for selling that the fuck out yet again,
Like you guys do you guys are the best. It'll
be the best one yet for sure. You know what.
I finally got to watch all of which we were in,
but I didn't get to actually consume as a whole
was overcom overcomments. Have you watched I am up to
our episode? Yeah, it's funny because the one thing I

(23:38):
had been hearing was what year is it? What year
is it? Can I say one of my favorite things
about the show is that we don't know what year
it is. I think it's like one of the most
fun things about it is like her singing my chemical romance.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yes, it's I like that, it's in that way it's
this meta comment on like this could be any year,
you know.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
What, because it can. And I feel like, and I'll
just openly and honestly about this, because there were some
people I was talking to that were like, oh, he's
it's about him coming out of the closet, Like how
is that gonna play in twenty twenty five? People forget that?
And it's resonating so much with so many people because yeah,
maybe you the Royal, you feel like you're beyond that

(24:18):
conversation about like being accepted and you know it being
a normal thing to be gay, but not everyone is. No,
Like I feel like our culture like really warp speed
like traveled through you know what it means too, like
the love simon y type of gay thing. Right, It's
like and I remember the discourse at the time was like, oh,

(24:40):
this is an incredibly like like white gay experience. He
had like incredibly accepting parents, et cetera. Like it didn't
seem like it was that hard for him and et cetera.
But I remember at the time being like, right, but
you do need something like this in order to broach
the subject on like a commercial way. And all these
years have gone by and you see like this I
worry about, Like, you know, this kid, he's in a

(25:02):
very attractive guy, he's just obviously smart. He goes to Georgetown,
he still has an incredibly difficult time coming out, and yeah,
you don't know when it takes place. But I think
that that's all outside of the fact, which is that
people want to see stories, whether they're gay and it's
coming out or whatever about I'm not sure if I'm
my true self, if people are gonna accept me, and

(25:23):
that does it. It's less about like it being a
queer thing or whatever, because it's the question central question
of the show is are people gonna love me if
I really show them who I am? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
And that is universal and the reason why, I mean, look,
we've done a lot of press about our products where
we're like, oh, we're just so refreshed that we're involved
in something that is not like a coming out story,
Like there are other queer stories to be told, but
there's the appeal of a coming out story is always
that it is legibly about an completely internal sort of

(25:53):
like journey.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, that is what makes over Compensating a compelling show.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
It's like, oh, like you don't have to see this
guy be out of the closet just yet there are
in fact, like the the Owen, Theey like character, Thel
character is like the perfect sort of like foiled to
that where it's like where it does make it somewhat
relevant to now, where it's like in a world that
seems like it is people have already figured themselves out
ahead of you, Like, how does that make you feel?

Speaker 1 (26:20):
I feel this.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Way still as a queer person. I'm like, yeah, wow,
I'm so stunted in all these different ways. I feel
completely insecure about all these things, Like that is when
I've been out of the closet for half my life.
Now it's like this is an incredibly universal thing. And
that is probably what they discussed when they were trying
to figure out the story of the series.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, so I have made it to the end, and
I'm just gonna say spoiler alert, like because maybe not
everyone's at the end. But in the final episode of
the show, like Benito goes over to Owen, who like Benito,
I'll say something about both their performances in a second
after I get through this, which I'm so blown away
by everybody in the show. But Benito goes up to Owen,

(27:03):
after he's you know, kind of denied that they're friends
in front of some straight guys. Some straight guys see
Benito talking to Owen and they go, oh, are you
guys friends? And Benito says, no, we're not friends, like
right in front of him and disregards him, and Owen
just really comfortably and just casually just like denies Benito

(27:25):
when he tries to, like, you know, pick up like
they've you know, nothing has happened, et cetera. And you know,
it's kind of just this moment where this out gay
kid who really knows himself is able to just like
sort of be the person who makes Benito like say,
I need to change what's going on. I just want

(27:47):
I guess it's a word salad here, But what I'm
remembering is when I went to college and I was
that kid. The thing that hurt me the most was
when the out gay kids were looking at me like
we see you and it's pathetic. Oh you know what
I mean. And that hurt more than any straight guy

(28:11):
testing me or you know, pushing my buttons because they
felt like they knew something about me, or any of
my girlfriends being a little too knowing, you know, Like
what really got to me was when an out gay
person who felt realized looked at me and was like no,
and then the rejection coming from them, Yeah, was like

(28:32):
the most painful thing. And I do think that is
the point obviously in the series, where it's not long
after that that things change.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Well, that rejection from an out queer person, let's say,
just pushes you a little bit further into the closet
in my opinion, whereas like you talking to a girlfriend
who might know something, or you kind of like on
a know, douking it out mentally with like a straight
guy who's trying to like uncover something that's you, like
holding the line that's you, like holding the line of

(29:02):
like who you are, Like I get to control how
much I reveal. But then someone judging you or someone
thinking that you are being pathetic in the way that
you're trying to like negotiate this is I think only
kind of alienates you. Yeah, and Ali, it's Binito's character.
Probably I have not gotten to that episode yet.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
It's just like there. I remember, like I was watching
it in the beginning and I was like, oh, is
he going to stay closeted? Like the whole season, and
I knew we were in episode six where he was
still dealing with that, and he was kind of seeing
our characters in like secret because it was like his
first grinder hookup. But I mean my truth was and
I think your truth was, and I can speak for
both of us here as we remained in the closet

(29:41):
the entirety of our freshman year. Mm hmm. Yeah. I
was obviously a little bit more complicated for you because
you had come out trior and it was whatever. But
I remember the thing that I can and if this
is like a truthful depiction of what someone like this
as freshman year is like, is yeah, I mean it
might not have been and what everyone would have wanted,
but I stayed in that fucking closet and talked in

(30:04):
a voice like the one he's using in that show
for the entirety of freshman Year, to the point where
it was physically painful, and the fact that he could
hold that much discomfort in his body and in his
voice and in his performance, like, I don't know, my
hat is off to him because it's not a fun

(30:24):
place to live, and it's not where he naturally lives.
Now knowing him.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Totally I mean, but he I saw him over the weekend,
and I was just like, God, there have been so
many moments where I've like gone back fifteen seconds or
just paused on frames, like he's a really gifted actor,
just an incredible actor, and so so amazing what he's done,
just as this creator and the star. We're just so happy.

(30:50):
We're just so happy for him. It's just really nice
to see like the community sort of rallying around this too.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, And you know what I was thinking, because because
I also was pulling that, I was like, Wow, it
seems like a lot of the queer community, a lot
of gay guys are like out here saying like I
watched this show, I loved this show. I felt good
watching the show. I felt seen watching the show in
a way that made me feel really happy and actually

(31:17):
reminded me of the reception that we got from Fire Island.
Like I felt like gay guys were not being shy
about saying that they loved it and that they watched
it and that they were supporting it. And I just
feel like sometimes it can feel, you know, from project
to project that the narrative changes a little bit and
sometimes can air on this side of oh, gay guys

(31:38):
don't support each other, or like, you know, gay guys
are the cruelest to each other in media, and I
do think in some regard that is true. Like certainly,
if I ever, you know, want to self immolate and
I want to feel bad about myself, I'll go on.
And I know for a fact that the nasty things
that are being said about like us or me or

(31:59):
our projects are from gay guys. But I really do
just want to shout out the fact that like, lots
of gay guys support queer projects, like lots of hard
people are out here doing that, and I don't want
it to get lost in the discussion of like, oh,
you know, gay guys can't support other gay guys uns
they're drag queens or porn stars. Like I don't want
it to get lost that that's not really true. And

(32:20):
I really, like I feel like if I were Benito,
or if I'm myself, or if I'm anyone out here
with a queer project, like I wouldn't want to toss
like queer people like gay men under the bus that
are supporting that when I do know for a fact
that that happens.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
I mean, I don't know I was going to generalize
and say, like a lot of that animis comes from
this insecurity or something or something internalized whatever, But I
also don't want to like, sometimes the gay guys are
cruel and critical for good reason, for good reasons of
maybe obviously those are those are some cases, But you're right,

(32:57):
I agree with you. I mean, I felt it from
a lot of cis gay guys shout out like I
don't know, I just couldn't live without.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah. I went to the Betty Who concert and it
was all all the gay men and we both played
Webster Hall, and I was just thinking about when the
last time I was at Webster Hall, which was my show,
my Christmas show, and it was all it was all katies,
it was all women, and I was like, it's so
funny because like I'm here at this Betty Who show
and it's wall to wall gay guys and tank tops,

(33:29):
being like it's pride and we're at the Betty Who
show and we know the choreo and we're obsessed and
by the way, shout out to Betty Who gets better
and fucking better, Betty Who, You're incredible. And I was
a gay guy at your show and I was happy
to be, but then I was just thinking. I was like,
I wonder what it would feel like for this many
gay guys and gay guys to show up for me.

(33:51):
And then I thought to myself, you know what, though
they did. They did. Maybe they weren't at the front,
but there were tons of gay guys at my show.
And I don't want to keep telling myself story that
like gay guys don't support other gay guys, because it's
not true.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
No, they're definitely where. I opened grinder that night and
I was like, whoa, the is all within two hundred feet.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
You open grinder at my show? I got to delete it.
I'm on it too much.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
And it's like people, yeah, and seventy five percent of
my messages this is just a this is not a complaint.
It's just like my landscape. It's just seventy five percent
of people being like.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Is this real? Oh my god, you're brave.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
I'm like, no, I'm a horny in theory at all
times gay guy.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
That is. I think something that I could I could
ask people to strike from their personal thing is like,
is this really you? About the people?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
What I say is I'd be the most random. Actually,
I'd be the most random gay person of note of
recognition to Catfish Eyes.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
That I kind of feel like that too. It's like,
why wouldn't you just pick Matt Boehmer.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
At summer Summer? Is we've really flipped you and I
you're not feeling good. I am not feeling good about
this summer and that's okay, and it will all blow over.
I am like in the gallows. It's something's going on,
and I got to talk to my therapist about it.
I think I am depressed because all I want to
do is when is just play video games when I
get up. Thanks to my switch too from NINTENTO, thank

(35:24):
you for betting my depression.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Nintendo. That's just like a way that you like to
spend your time. So you you waking up and like
wanting to do that is just like I think what
you're craving is the time to do that. But like
you know, it's obviously been it's been cuckoo crazy schedule time.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
But you know, I I was just kind of going
through it bullet point by bullet point with you last night,
and I had not actually said the words out loud
or just like gone through it beat by beat until then,
and it was like, woa, the last seven months have been, yeah,
as eroding as they have been, maybe f like I

(36:01):
might be in an even This is not to scare anybody,
but like I think I am, I'm just managing it
better for sure. This is like I'm like, oh god,
this is just I'm reminded of that place that I
was at when I needed to take a break from
the podcast. And I'm not saying that's what's going to happen,
but I'm like, oh, yeah, ye, I really need to
just keep crawling and it will be okay because that
got better and this will get better. And I'm just

(36:23):
being real with my sister and my wonderful, wonderful, wonderful
community of readers, Katie's publicis and finalists and Kyle's that Yeah,
I'm I'm, I'm I'm crisped up. But it's okay. The
meat will will tender rize.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Soon, I know. And I want you to know that
I know you know this, You've noticed, you've clocked it. Well,
it's not even about me noticing, It's just about you
knowing that I'm here for you and anything. And then
if all I ask is that you just don't add
anything just don't add anything, and that is in your control.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
That you everyone's Becka to Beca had a fun weekend,
do you think, Becka, do you think we would be
allowed to go to the Puerto Rican Pride festivities next year? Yes?

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Oh my god, please? It looks so fun.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Is a of a huge crew of people.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
I would love to go, and then we'll show up
and they'll be like, what's their name?

Speaker 3 (37:23):
It was a myriad of people across the diaspora, not
to as let me say that friends that were just
like this is so dope and I want to be involved.
I will say the Manhattan Parade is giving corporate stakeholders.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, like all, because that is the true party.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Like if you want to go on the island, you
go to Bushwick.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
We came about to Marie Hernana's park. You see all
the stars souped up. Everyone's playing bad Bunny at different locations.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, wow, oh no Bunny going on at once. I
don't just mean what I fantasize about erectly.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
I mean there were rumors who's going to show up?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
He didn't.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
It's fine, but.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
He now occupies There's like an iconic, you know on Houston. Uh,
massive board, like whoever's the one at the time? And
right now there there is a huge bad bunny.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Has one a picture for pinching it.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Oh wow, Anna you filthy dog. Now that's too much.
We don't like that filthy humor. Not on Lost Colt,
not on Coach, not on Lost Coach. Do you think
that the summer will be improved? We love you, Becca,
give it for back, everybody, godsend. Do you think the

(38:54):
summer will be improved by having a legitimate contender for
Song of the Summer with man Child by Brienna Carpenter,
Because not a single one of these other songs were
legitimate contenders until now. No, You're right.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
I am so thrilled that Sabrina is already kind of
locking in as an artist for as long as it
makes her happy and fulfilled. Is one of those artists
who is just not going to really ever take any
big break until she's ready to do that. I love
that she's one of those girls who's like, I'm just
gonna keep releasing tracks year round.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
She's ready for it. I feel like the thing that
sets Sabrina apart from everyone is she actually had years
to like train for this show. Oh yeah, like Mama
is many albums deep, she now knows exactly who she
is because she had the time to develop. Like she
wasn't bailed on by the industry. She wasn't like embraced
by the industry, but no one. It seems like it

(39:51):
was like the slowest climb until it just snapped in
and now she is like the bazooka with these hit songs.
I guess that's the one thing couple of my friends
were saying was it feels like not a lot of
a departure. But my thing is like, if you're locked
and loaded with a bop, just release the bop, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I would say, it's like, to me, it's giving fifteen minutes.
But with that eighties synth opening, Yeah, very good luck, babe.
Like I love that blend of like she's she's going
out on I think banjo lex.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Love.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
It fades out on banjo lex, but then it starts
with like these like that that that eighties kind of thing,
and I'm like, oh love, yeah, that you synthesized something
kind of newish for us.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I love it. I love her as like a low
key country artist, like I love her like super like
nine to five aesthetic that she's giving. It felt like
nine to five on the road. It's felt like nine
to five meets like Thelma and the Wheeze, like woman
of the eighties early nineties thing. I love the video.
It's one of my favorite music videos I've seen in

(40:57):
a very long time. Just like the amount of setups.
I was watching it wondering. I was like, I wonder
if this was storyboarded or they just like set up
a million locations and then got everything. Either way, it
is so much fun to watch. It's one that you
could watch again and again and again and again and
again and again. She's just fucking got it. Yeah, Star,

(41:18):
Full Star, We're obsessed and Jack anton Off, Amy Allen
and Sabrina Carpenter. That's a trio that should just keep rocking,
keep sticking together. Amy. Yeah, she's everything. Gray Grammy winner, right,
she won the Grammy. Yeah, songwriter up the Yeah, Yep.
She might be an interesting person to have on the
podcast because like, that's Amy. That's truly like nuts and bolts.

(41:40):
How this how the oh sausage gets made? I almost
said how the salad gets tossed? Yeah? Can I say
it's definitely how the sausage gets made. It's not how
the salad gets tost If she's got insights on how
the salad gets tossed, I would love to hear that
as well. I don't need any tips, just kidding, ill, God,
I hate myself myself. I did get a d M

(42:05):
from a guy. No, maybe it was grinder message, and
this is how you know it was getting too crazy
on that was like, I bet you're incredible at eating
ass and I was like, I gotta put the phone away.
I got to put the phone away. No.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
One guy recently was like whatever sent me in nudo
was like great, and then he goes, yeah, you like
that bagot and I was like, okay, well now I
do have to I wish I was the kind of
person who were who was turned on by like full
I fully full sub. I don't think I'm full sub.
I don't like being called slurs.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
No, I don't like being called slurs or being told
what kind of physical pain I'm in. Someone said to
me recently, I can't wait to choke you and watch
your beautiful eyes fill with tears. And I was like, well,
thank you for elements of that sense, you know, what
I mean, Like, it's great that you want to fuck
me a lot. I'm so happy that you think my
eyes are beautiful. I liked when you call the beautiy. Yeah,

(43:00):
thanks for saying I'm beautiful. But then when I thought
about choking so much, well, first of all, I'm on
the record that I don't think so you choking, it's
just for me, it's and then so I was like,
but don't you love poppers. I was like, yeah, I
like to pop up. And then they were like, well,
you know, it's kind of the same. No, I would
kind of same like ideas like cutting off circulation, And
I was like, I don't know about that.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
I don't know that this is like a this is danger,
Like I'm putting my hand around my throat, this is
like this is a little whatever. Like our brains are
evolved a certain way to to to register that as
like a fear.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, it's giving. Oh no, you know what I mean.
And that's I just I always need to be able
to breathe. That's a big rule for me. Yeah, that
you should be able to breathe, need to breathe, need
to be able to breathe at least have the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, I have to agree.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Write that down right later. Oh, write that sound for later.
Lust Cult.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Finally, fucks what we could have done on an overcompensating.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Y'all, here's the team? Should we say that? We got
the original script and we were like, can we pair
this back in a little bit?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
And the original script had us making out and we
were like, maybe that's a bridge too far, both like
I don't know, just like for us as friends and
for just I think the scene itself it would have
been a gag.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
It made me nervous. I was like, I feel like,
if we ever kissed in film and media, it has
to be on our terms. It can't begin someone else's project,
can I say?

Speaker 2 (44:30):
In hindsight, and not just because the show is a
huge success, that would have been That would have been
a fine place to be, like, let's just go for it,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
You know what I wish I had done. I wish
I had had libbed one thing, which is the last
thing while I'm while I'm spoiler alert, jacking off on
the jump other road. Yeah, yeah, I wish I had
said I am so in love with you. I love that.
I would have said something along the line's like you're
my husband. That was so crazy girl. Wait you know

(45:02):
what Benny said to me.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
He was like and I was like, shut the fuck up,
because he was being sweet, but it was like a
compliment that didn't sound like a compliment until later he
was like, oh my god, Bowen, like, I just have
to tell you like you like in the script it
was originally get out of our house, and you added
to get out of our townhouse.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Like that is so lateral. Shut the fuck up, Like
what are you saying? No, people are obsessed with that line.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
But then later on I'm like, oh, I guess that
is like the slightest that is the serrated edge that
that is. That is the bit of as Emily Oberman
describes it at Pentagram, the bit of wit, the thing
that is nicely off. It's like, oh, okay, get out
of our townhouse just hits a little bit different than
get out of our house.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
This is so funny. We're complimenting our own performances. But no, no,
but by the way, but when I got there in
the show, and I of course had seen this scene
isolated because they had sent it over, and they were like,
oh my god, we love it. We're so excited. So
I watched it. I was like, oh my god, yeah,
fun presented in the show. I was like, really works
because it is a panicky situation for him, like when

(46:04):
you're following him the whole time, and then you find
us with our two creatures, and the way that it
starts so kind of like you know, you think he
might be understood, and then you come in and it's
a whole other fucking thing. It really worked. Yeah, And
I love that subtly. I am so the bottom and
you are so the top. Like you totally are the top.

(46:26):
Like even when you walk in and you go, oh
like that, you said it like a top, like you
did the whole thing like the top, And I did
the whole thing like a bottom one hundred percent. Because
you are the top in that relationship. Davis is the top.
I think you're the top in our relationship. To be
honest with you, baby, non sexual the top.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Ye, No, I think you talk a lot with us.
That's not true. I'm quiet as a mouse girl.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I'm not topping you in life. I'm not. I'm I'm
out here. I feel the bottom. I feel you're at
the bottom with us.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Oh yeah, I've celebrated that I've forgot on record saying whatever.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I just I like that about us. How are you
denoting bottom? Well, gosh, this is something I have to
examine too.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh I'm denoting bottom as uh as sub because of
that directionality.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I don't find you to be sub okay, socially friendship
wise really no. But I also don't think you're dominant.
I just think you're the top.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
God, can I just say God, this is gonna sound
so annoying, but with like the night that I had off,
I was like, I'm gonna go and meet this guy
for drinks. Sure barely got a word of note adries.
I'm like, this is my biggest pet peel. And you know,
I was talking to Lily Glad Lily about this during press.
I was like, we did this like them speed dating thing.
I don't think they used this part, but they're But
one of the questions was what's your biggest pet peeve dating?

(47:51):
I was like, I think mine is just just not
saying a peep. I've gotten so many dates lately where
I just don't say a peep. I don't get asked anything. Yeah,
and then Lily was like, that's probably because they it's
people who know it to you, and also they are
nervous and all these things. I'm like, but like, at
the end of the day, no matter what the dynamic is,
if it's a date, it's like, it should be equitable.

(48:13):
It should be an equitable conversation. That's that's that's my
radical opinion. Am I am I wrong? No, you're one
hundred percent right.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
I think I do think Lily is probably right, like
I would imagine, and that that people obviously come with
a with an idea of recognition for you, and they're
therefore baggage about the situation, and so they're probably coming
to the table thinking, well, I'm going to show that
I'm valuable as well by sharing a lot. Meanwhile, it's like,
what you really want to do is be actually understood

(48:43):
or just on a date. Yeah, just on it, Just
be on a date.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
You know what I know about you, even though I
have not witnessed it firsthand. I bet you're a great
fucking date. And I'm going to say I'm a great
fucking date. I bet you are. One hundred I try,
I try. I try to make it so easy for
the other person. Hence me like nodding along, listening. I'm
with them every every step of the way as they
unfurther life towards like towards me, and I retain all

(49:09):
that information, I really do, so that the next time,
if there's the next time, I like follow up, I.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Just I wish I could be afforded that. Yeah, I
think that's well. And now I think, in stating it
out loud, this is one way to do that. Sure,
hopefully people someone out there takes the note. I guess
I'm wondering now to myself because I always feel like
when you're when we're talking about dating, it's so easy
to be like other people be like or like I
hate my totally, and I'm trying to ask myself the

(49:35):
question of, like, if I could take accountability, what could
I do better with dating? I know I know already
what mine is, what's yours.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's I'm so bad at the texting back, and that
is just across the border problem I have. That's just
across the board, something that I have with you with
no our friends, like like it's like it's it's just
something that infects every part of my life.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I don't feel left on red by you ever, it's
it's great to think that I could get even swifter
response you can leverage. I think my thing is I
just bring other experiences into That's okay, but it's so
hard not to. Yeah, I sometimes have to extra remind
myself that, you know, other people I've been, I've dated

(50:20):
are not in the room with us when I'm on
a new one, and like, I don't like like I'm
talking to a new person, not someone I can project
something on from all older situations. But that's my thing.
And also just knowing what I want to begin with totally,
because I think we could. I could personally save a
lot of people a lot of time if I were
just like, maybe this is not what you want. Yeah,

(50:43):
because for me, it's no longer the thing of like
I feel like I'm performing on a date or I
feel the need to stunt on a date, or like
win a date, like that's something I'm I'm I'm over.
It's other things now, it's like why am I here
to begin with? And while I'm here, what am I
thinking about? And what am I anticipating?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yes, that gets in the way that that that like
that like colors the rest of it within the date.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
It's unfair to the other person and myself. Yeah, you
know what I mean. I've had a dating trauma and
I feel like, no matter how hard I try. And
I'm not saying it's like it's it's it's much of
a problem as it's been. I'm just saying that is
my challenge now is like this person isn't gonna hurt
you necessarily, Like if you can actually trust what this

(51:32):
person says, you know what I mean. Like, it's especially
as you get into your mid thirties, it's it kind
of feels like less people are likely to bullshit, so
give them the opportunity to be gene. Just because you
had one bad experience doesn't mean they're all going to
be like that.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I will say, what was done to you is so unusual.
Your dating trauma as it was inflicted upon you was
of such a durrain.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Nature.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
I was just saying, I was gonna say nature it was.
It was so extreme and like something that I would
not wish upon my worst enemy.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
But this is where the accountability comes in totally.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
But I just want to I just want to put
that out there and like it just I feel for
you constantly in this regard because it's like God, it
could not have happened to like a more undeserving person
whatever deserving means. But you know what I mean, it's
like God, like you, you can't fucking like, why would
you do that?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Don't do it to Matt, don't do it to anyone? Okay,
what were you saying? Accountability? I think the accountability part
is is also being like, Okay, a shitty thing happened
to you in your life. Forget about dating whatever, it's
like a relationship, whatever it is, Like where's the accountability
Because at a certain point you do have to stop
saying like, well it's because this person was this or

(52:49):
wrong place, wrong time, or whatever. Like I've been able
to make so many positive changes just about like managing
my energy and knowing about people's capabilities through certain situations,
and also it has made a lot of other things
in my life make sense, Like I will never say
to anyone now like you have to get over it. It's

(53:11):
been a long time, you know what I mean, or
you know what it's like. I'm grateful for the ups
and downs of dating in general, because they fill out
a landscape of what that experience is really like In
totality so that you can be more sensitive and more
generous and more understanding and empathetic with people. That they

(53:34):
do say that about like heartbreak and about grief is
it is miserable to go through. But then ultimately that
is what makes you a three sixty full human. That's
what colors in the coloring book that of your emotional
life are the hard things. It's just fucking tough while
you're going through them. And I do think like accountability
is important. Sure, you can give as much as you

(53:56):
can get, and like there's one thing being like, oh,
I'm gonna kick this around with my girlfriends and my
sisters and my best friends about like how shitty the
situation was. But then there's another element of it, which
is like, and I could do better too, of course.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
And the fact that you even have that mechanism to
be like, let me examine myself is something that the
vast majority of people don't have yet because we're just
people in our thirties dating I think for the most part,
other people in our thirties and we're all figuring this

(54:29):
out together. That's the thing about dating within your age.
Everyone on some levels developmentally on the same track. But
also there is something appealing about dating for me older,
but then that becomes but then you have to like
parse out, well is that a flag of any color
for them? You know, It's like there's just so many

(54:50):
different things that you have.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
To think about. Study is like positive, we both have
to date older. She's positive. She says it all the time.
She's like, well, you both need someone who's going to
take control in her like way of saying that, and
I'm just like, see, I wonder though, I wonder, all right,

(55:12):
dating older quote unquote is different saying that at thirty five,
saying that at twenty five, You know what I mean?
Like when I was twenty five, dating older like a
guy in his thirties. Now dating older at thirty five
is like, I don't know what guy in his fifties,
you know, Like that's that's someone that's looking for something
totally different. Probably, It's like it's so it's I certainly

(55:33):
watch a lot of Daddy Ploorn and I'll tell you that,
I tell you that.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
But I'm saying, uh, in terms of taking control, I
don't know about that either. All I want this is
all I want. I want someone to know what restaurants
to go to. Mm hmm, that's all I actually want.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
And when you say that, do you mean like you
want someone that's going to take care of the decisions
of the law of the life. Yeah. Yeah, I made
a reservation for us here. Meet me here. The cleaning
person is coming on Thursday. Like not a nurser of me,
but just someone someone that has that on their mind,
take care of you.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
I have my like dashboard of life all kind of
laid out the way that I wanted to accept in
some few deficiencies, and it would be so nice. And
this is not a requirement obviously, and we're just talking,
we're just shooting from the hep here. But it's like,
would be so cool if like there was a puzzle
piece like like completing that, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, it's just so funny.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
It's so fun to fantasize about these things.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
I know, because and I'll tell you what, it's a
lot more fun then going on the actual dates talking
about how many and shit totally because like again, like
it's like we're talking about earlier about like you know,
gay guys not supporting other gay guys. It's like, yeah,
but wouldn't it be fun to think about one that
does you know what I mean, and they do exist.
Not to say that every time a song like Manchild

(56:58):
by Sabrina Carpenter comes out that I'm not absolutely down
to ride load the shotgun, let's go into town, you
know what I mean? Like I am down to talk
about how many and shit like it went in little
tiny fun flairs. But in terms of a life ideology,
I had to, and you know, I think we all

(57:18):
have to at a certain point, like clock the stories
that we've been telling ourselves and being like, maybe I'm
not helping myself by consistently telling myself the same story.
Because not everyone is the person that love bombed you.
Not everyone is the person that cheated on you. Not
everyone is the person that you know stole your money.

(57:39):
Oh I don't know why that was the third thing?
Have you been pilfered by a man? No body know
people that have yikes. Someone that we know was dating
someone it was found out was only dating them so
that they could finance projects of theirs, and then they bailed.
Like people are sick.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Well, there's one fucking person out there who has never
dated me, but he owes me money. You got to
tell me after I gotta tell you, no, I follow
it up after years and you know who it is.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Oh, I do know who it is? And can I
tear something? That's crazy?

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I emailed again. I was like, Hey, where's my money?
And if I see him out in these streets.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Say it, say it. It's on site site. Man, why
are you not paying me four hundred dollars?

Speaker 2 (58:28):
I'm not I'm not confrontational at all in moments like this,
I have no problem bring it up. And this person's
avoided me out in the public, and I'm like, dude, well,
of course, how much money is it? Like a seven
hundred dollars? Yeah, see, that's not a small amount at all.
I want seven hundred dollars please.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
That is owed to me in the form of services
and lodging that I was providing to you, and that
was agreed upon God whatever.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
You know. You know what's a crazy thing about me?
I have the I had the instinct. For three quarters
of a second. I was like, I'll just send him
the money. Then I was like, no, it's not about that. No,
it's the principle of it is the principle of pleasure.

(59:19):
One of the great songs I feel like people are
gonna be furious if we don't address, and just like that, okay, address,
and just like that we have to address, and just
like that one thing, I'll say I loved the choice
for the virgin nun played by Rosie o'donald to say
I've never been to New York before in a New

(59:39):
York accent. Ah, that's how I knew we were still cooking,
you know what I mean for ros o'donald to just
launch I've never been to New York before, like in
that accent as a virgin nun, lesbian nun who focks Miranda.
Like more of that, like if I'm behind the wheel,
my foot is on the gas for more of that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Right, I am really disoriented by the aid and stuff.
Gotta say, so, this five year thing is loose and
then he shows up for a random thing because he
was just in town unannounced, comes to the house like
a lot of things need some sort of realist texture there,

(01:00:20):
and it just there's it's just a slippery fantasy, which
is I guess what Sex and the City always kind
of was. But then at the same time, there were
moments of that show that were truly for lack of
a better word like gritty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
They've got Carrie in a long distance relationship dealing with rats.
I said, I don't see this from my girl. It's
hard when you have a character that you know always
smarter than this, and we're watching her go through this,
and I'm like, look, I understand, like I have. I've
been there with really trying to make it work with
the guy that you believe is the one, but at

(01:00:55):
a certain point, like she's too old for this shit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
And I wonder if it's like, Okay, we're building up
to like her losing patience with this kind of domesticity
and then this breaks off of Aiden and then she
goes out into the dating world again. But I don't
know that two episodes in a row of home maintenance
is this thing that is Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Think, but I think we are because this guy that's
coming in to do her backyard had they had a
lot of sexual attention, and I was just like, oh,
what they've done is they're they're essentially putting in an
Aiden who's actually available, because didn't you feel he gave Aiden?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Of course, I mean l o el at that hair
and then the just the belt being loose off of
it off of a loop like I'm like, okay, this
is so telegraphed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
I love it. Yeah, he's aiden. Aiden has come in
and suddenly there's an Aiden there that can be available
to her, and I'm hoping she jumps his bones quick,
like right quick. I just I need Carrie to be
doing more sex in the city. That's that's what I
want from it. That's what that's what we all want.
And you know what, I love the the Miranda plot

(01:02:06):
line of she fucks the virgin None. I was like, yes,
miss like that. This feels like it Okay. Any feelings, thoughts,
things you want to say about The Wicked for a
good trailer, she hit the web hard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yes, I want to say that the Wicked trailer is
but a glimpse.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I mean, what can I say? I can't I love
I love Ruler Culture number ninety the trailer trailers, but
a glimpse. That's all we can say about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I want to say that Alphab's hair literally coming down
is a sligh to me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
I think that. I'm so I'm looking for a big
piece of art to put over my new couch, and
I think that Albaba with her hair down, I think
I would like a let's say eighty by thirty. God,
that's a huge piece of state an art for my
living room, which is Alphaba with her hair down, having

(01:03:04):
just like fucked it up. I need that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Eighty inches is almost I would say seven feet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Oh it's so big. Seven feet. So right now I'm
I'm like, I hired an interior designer and I fucking
love her. I'm so excited and we're talking about like,
so you have to make a big decision once you
put in your couch. It's like when you think about
what's going to go above it, is it like a
lot of different things? Is it shelving, is it asymmetry
or is it one big art?

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
I think you want one big art. I think I
want one big art.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
And I'm joking that it's Alphaba, But am I Can
you imagine if I if I if Trade came over
here and they're like, hey, so excited we finally connected. Yeah,
that was really good meal and drinks as well. I
really enjoyed the film we saw and when we ice
skated on our date, excited to go into your apartment
opens the door comes in, Dick a little hard sees
Alphaba on the wall.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
What's the craziest core you've you've you've seen Trade have
when they've hosted.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
This is a good question. I have an answer, so immediate.
What is what if Bowen Yang? What is the craziest
core you've seen Trade display? Sweet older gentleman in Midtown.
I walk in and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
There's no inch of wall in this apartment that was
not covered in like a plastic I should say, like
a little tiny sculptural disney.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Oh god, it's so rough in a way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
In a way because and by the way, I am
not unreceptive to that, but it was, you know, you
love us. It was a maximalism to a degree that
I was like, this is this is a lot? And
he was like, I know, it's a lot. I was like,
it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
You weren't ready much less horny for it. Oh wow,
so you actually were? Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
I I looked past it, but on the way out,
I was like, God, damn, that's a giant moleficent, you know,
like it was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
It was. It was that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
I was like, this is the Ryan Murphy's grotesquerie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Yeah, I mean I guess I have two one none
none as specific as that, but one I went over
a guy's apartment to hook up, and I was he
had so much art hung up and it was kind
of beautiful. But everything I asked about, he's like, oh,
what's this? He told me that his ex boyfriend had
hung it up. Shut up. He's like, oh yeah, my
ex boyfriend hung that up. You can leave that out.

(01:05:28):
Oh yeah, my ex boyfriend put that on that wall.
Oh yeah, this this is a picture that my ex
boyfriend framed. I was just like, what, what about the
contents of the picture. It was always secondary so that
and then one time I took it doggy from someone
in a room that was a hoarders room. It was
I just it's like when you you meet someone in

(01:05:50):
there incredibly put together and you're like, well, there's no
way that it's gonna be two feet of clothes on
the ground that we have to climb over. If you're
even thinking about having someone come over, there has to
be a path to the bed. Yeah, oh yeah, you
know what I mean. Like, if there's no path to
the bed, there's no path forward. That's actually real Coach

(01:06:12):
number forty. If there's no path to the bed, there
is no path forward. Some of these girls the bedding
is barely on, like the just just the sheets are
just like you know, I don't have to have a
full bedding set, but sometimes the Mattres protector is like
halfway off and I go, oh, well we should figure

(01:06:33):
this out. Also, yes, and what do you feel about
pageantry with a towel on the bed? No? No, I'm
kind of like, can we not? Like I don't I
don't want to fuck on a towel.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
No. Although I did have the algorithm work, it's work
on me once and I bought one of those like
those like coum throws.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Like anal sex throw, like a com throw.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I've used it once, but it does kind of break
it where I'm like hold on, hold on, and I
got to like fish it out of the closet and
put it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Out uh huh uh huh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
And it's a nice feeling. And it's not a towel,
for God's sake.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
No, I mean, one time I'm getting fucked by a
guy and trust me, like I've taken care of this.
Oh yeah, I'm in the anal sex game now almost
you know, fifteen years, we're we're good at this. So
I'm thinking like around twenty seven twenty eight, you kind
of you kind of learn like, Okay, I'm not the
age where I can just like hop on Dix anymore.
So you know, it's it's not always a perfect science.

(01:07:33):
But now I'm at the point where like if I'm
going to be bottoming, like, don't worry about it. I've
figured it out. And if there if something goes down,
like it's not crazy, like we're all adults here whatever.
So I was, you know, recently, not recently, about a
year ago, like I was like, uh, can I fuck you?
And I was like yes, and then he's like we

(01:07:53):
should get a towel. I'm like, it's really okay, and
he was like, let's get a towel at my at
my house and I'm like no, I'm like, what about
looking at me in my beautiful eyes? Says I'm in
a ship everywhere. I don't think I was giving that,
and I don't think I give that. I'm one of

(01:08:15):
those gay guys that's like I don't farre. Ask Jared,
I don't fart. You don't far dated me a year.
I'm one of those I don't fart gays, Like I
don't like it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Because anytime I far you really get scandalized.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
I have what I would describe as a full body response.
But you're far. Its sound like an angry Egyptian king.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, they're they're pretty bad. I should get that chat yours.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Yours are the loudest sounds on on the on the
scale of sound, and mine are silent. But I can't
believe not saying this, but they're bad. See you too far? No,
that was just for you. I really don't fart.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
The only reason I have a butthole is for sex
promise promise entrance only.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Anyways, But I was so much I was like, shut up,
like I'm telling you it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
No, that's that's disgusting. Now get out. You're not fucking me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
And now I'm like, okay, let me get up and
get it. Like I'm like, I'm telling you it's fine.
Oh so if we're in my house and I say
it's fine, it's fine, totally. Oh I don't like that,
And just like that we've arrived at I don't think so, honey,

(01:09:34):
it's time. Yeah, this is our segment where we take
one minute to really take the piss out of something
in culture. And I have something? Do you have something?

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
I do have something. Okay, this is great. This is
Matt Rodgers's I don't think so honey, as time starts now, I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Don't think so honey that the actress Jen Lyon is
not a household name. So I watched The English Teacher
again and so enjoyed it. And she does the best
guest acting in a comedy performance I have ever seen.
Literally start the conversation right now. That needs to be
an Emmy nomination for gen Lyon in English Teacher. This

(01:10:17):
performance is funny, It was layered, it was everything, and
I was like, where have I seen her before? The
answer everywhere. She was on the show Clause, which was
an underrated show with Nisi Nash. It was a Nissi
Nash vehicle that also had a really great performance from
Kruci Tran. By the way, like this show was gold
and then you'll peel back the layers and you realize

(01:10:39):
gen Lyon slays it in so many things. This is
one of the funniest, most like complex, like I am
s depths giving actresses that's out there and I need
her to be known and I need her to be
cast in all things. I don't think so honey that
she's not.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
And that's one minute thank you, but also she is
but also she is, so it's like it's yeah, she's
this is what we call, you know, a rising star.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
I was lucky enough to serve on the jury of
the Gotham TV Awards and I did Supporting Performance in
a Comedy Series and that was one of the reasons
why I was rewatching English Teacher because Sean Patton was nominated.
He's excellent. We ultimately gave the award to Pirna Jaganathan
from Deli Boys, a show that study wrote for, and
she's also great on. But I feel like people aren't

(01:11:26):
talking about and it's a really great show. So basically
I come here to say, watch those shows that you've
been meeting to watch that people have been telling you about,
because they've got stuff like this gen Lion performance which
just affected me in such a way and I was laughing,
I laugh out loud at that show, like the kids
in it are It's the best like kid acting I've

(01:11:49):
seen in a really long time. Mmmmm, oh that's so fun. No,
just to have like authentic teens like saying these lines
that are really really well written comedy, but the way
that say it is so dropped in like it feels real.
It doesn't feel like kids are acting, which is so hard.
I know, I know. Shout out if a lot of plays.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
We were pointing out to Tony's oh yeah, and shows
taking place at schools in the classroom. A shout out
to anyone who runs a production or does has to
corral children.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Of any kind. You deserve a billion dollars. Okay, when
are you seeing John Proferter as the Villain?

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
I cannot wait. I'm seeing it on the fourteenth, right
before we go to France. I can't wait for you
to see it and talk to you about it. I'm
so excited.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Okay, So Bowen Yang you had and I don't think
so honey to do mm hmm. And I'm excited about
that to hear it. Great, this is Bowe Yang's. I
don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't
think so honey.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Having a matinee on Tony Sunday, I think was making
these poor people. Some of them love to do it
and shout out, but I say, you give them a
day to pamper themselves up to really, you know, get
the micro current machine going on the face or get
the little whax that they might have not had time
during the rest of the week when they have seven

(01:13:12):
other shows, maybe six other shows. Let's say, fine, they
don't have a Sunday night show. I just think these
people deserve a day off, a third and dated day
off on Tony Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
And then I was thinking, you know what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Last night, my girl Audra changes into the Mama Rose
get up, then has to We know Broadway loves a
quick change. These actors love a quick change. That has
to quick change back into her gorgeous gown. I say,
take the stress out. I used to love a quick change,
but now I go, don't touch, let me just sit
because you want to just these people deserve to just sit.

(01:13:44):
I know they're working with a lot of you know,
inertia and momentum, and they have to keep moving, but
just I give them a moment to just be still.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
And that's one minute. I couldn't believe that that was
the second time Audre had done that that day, in
that day, giving one hundred and ten percent, like you
were saying, I was so shook by the end of
that PHO. Now, I think if you haven't seen it,
you if you listen back to when I first saw it,
which was in previews, you kind of get what I

(01:14:14):
mean when I say, we're gonna go on Wednesday. By
the way, we're taking Sudie. I can't wait. I'm so
excited for you to see it. It's great. But you
get what I mean when I say that I believe
that this angle on Rose was talking more about her
as someone who was like mentally ill, Like you're not
frightened of Rose in Roses Turn, You're frightened for her, Yes,

(01:14:34):
And by the end I was like, I was like, yeah,
I felt her anguish in a way where I was
just like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, like in such
a crazy way. And also, she does eight shows a week.
She doesn't have an understudy going on, not one day,
and a lot of the other people can't say that
she does eight. She does eight. That is Odra Mick duh,

(01:14:57):
fucking legend, fucking legend, fucking legend for all time.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
And I thought just the right amount of addressing it
at the show last night with Oprah saying a lot
of people talking.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Yeah, this was absolutely lovely to get to know you better,
I really got to know you and your sexual experiences.
Taking a dog in a messy room with with with
not without a clear path to the bed. That's that's hiking.
That's a hike. Doggy in a messy room without a
clear path to the bed, Sabrina Carpenter lyric, Uh huh.

(01:15:30):
Speaking of that, we end every episode with a song
mansal why around a right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
To was listening to more of that? Listen to Manchild
by Sabrina Carpon.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Stream Sabrina for Once It's Real Culture number eight, stream
Sobrina for one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Spye last Cultu Racist is the production by Will Ferrell's
Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Created and hosted by Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yeg executive
produced by Ada Hasnier and

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Produced by Beck Ramos, Edited and mixed by Doug Bamma
Nikola Board and our music is by Henry Koberski