"Maren Got To Me" (w/ Maren Morris)

Matt & Bow are feeling like hard to GET starLETS today because, well, Maren Morris herself is the guest on their podcast Las Culturistas!!! From that fateful night at the Bowery Ballroom when our hosts saw Maren years ago, to this moment. Oooh!!!! This podcasting event explores how Maren found Matt through his Tayla Swiff "Lover" album, how the need to slow down during the pandemic affected Maren's writing, and Maren's discovery of Dolly Parton as an actress before she ever even realized she was a singer. Also, Steel Magnolias, 9 to 5, Maren's new album Humble Quest, the "short king" phenomenon, and an explanation of the lyric "like a Coca Cola on Christmas Day" from Maren's song "Sugar". All this, new Real Housewives of Beverly Hills thoughts, Watch What Happens Live experiences and meeting Kyle and Mauricio in the flesh! See Maren on the Humble Quest Tour all throughout 2022 and stream that damn album! This episode? That's myyyyyyyy churchhhhh!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look man, oh I see you? Why why? And look
over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness culture? And
it's yet another testament to shooting your shot on the
d MS today. The arc of this is really beautiful
and the trajectory has yet to be finished, you know,

(00:23):
like it's we have a whole episode ahead of us
with this person. And I mean, I've been working myself
up over this for a while now. Ever since we
got the confirmation, I have to ask the guests if
she heard the episode or the snippet of us drafting
a message in the d MS to send her, because
it was sort of like getting ready to ask someone
to prom you know what I mean. It was like,

(00:45):
I just I want to do it right. You know.
I'm not the kind of person who's like, hey, do
you mind reading this email? I don't have to like
have someone do a pass at it if it's coming
from me. I want to say, I'm not, but I
am the kind of person who will read it. If
I'm nervous about an email or something I'm saying, I
will sort of like casually read it out loud. So
I'm not like asking like, hey, can you can I
run this by you? But I will sort of like

(01:06):
do it with the assumption that people will confirm or
deny that it's Babe, you gotta kill the editor in
your brain. You so do, you so do, because otherwise,
how are you gonna how are you gonna put clay
on the table? How are you gonna make art? You know?
How are you going to even put clay on the table?
First of all, First of all, I want to just
close a loop from last week. My ear is fixed.

(01:29):
Okay everyone, I know everyone's concerned. My ear is fixed.
I had what's called the mirror and gottomy. I just
explained it to our guests, and then she left the
chap and I thought, okay, I've lost the guests. I've
I've grossed the guests out. But it was merely a
technical issue. However, I won't explain it to you, the readers.
You can just look up mirroring Gootomy and you can
figure mirror economy. Was she and roomy Michelle? Yeah, so

(01:49):
mirror and Gottomy played ROMI yeah, and they're talking about
bringing it back and Miry and mirroring Gootomy. I am
so glad that you're feeling better, especially because it's um
you know where I look. We we we we We
had a mission beginning of this year to bring more
musicians on the podcast because let's let's face it, we

(02:11):
love music here and we're popping the fuck off in
terms of succeeding in that. Okay, I would say, so, Matt,
do you remember seeing this person in concert? Do I
remember seeing this person in concert? I literally we went
with the this is the thing about a Marion Morris show.
All different people are there. You got your country fans,
and the gays were out. Do you remember when we

(02:32):
saw Colton Haynes and I was like, that's Colton Haynes
was there and he was good and sweet boys. And
I was looking around and I was like, Bowery Ballroom
is out for Marion Morris, and the gays are wearing
their jackets. You know, the gays put on their good
jackets for the Marion morrishow. The gays put on their
good jackets for the Marion Moore show. Ryan Hurd had

(02:52):
long hair at the time. Remember the chemistry, but I
remember the chemistry go, those two must there must be
something going on between in those just like, let me
tell you something. That's two people, that's gonna get married,
and our guest was wearing pre like before it was
cool pre let's say her name, Ariana Grande, wore an

(03:12):
oversized hoodie and made it look fucking cheek. It was
like Heather gray. It was like it was really really
it was black. It was black. Well, I'm famously color blind.
I don't think I think it was Heather gray. Is
this like a Mandela effect thing like bearn Stein bears,
bearn Stain bears, Like it's two different realities. Remember, it's
literally the dress. It's it's black and gold or whatever

(03:34):
the dress was. Remember the dress. Oh my god, my god.
But anyway, I was with you during the dress. Yeah,
and I remember I saw that I saw the dress
as one thing and you saw the dress as another thing.
And that's when we really knew the dress was gonna
pop off. It was gonna pop off, and it did,
and it did. We can't tell we cannot talk about
the dress. We can we still we cannot talk about
the dress while the guest is here, because we could

(03:55):
just keep going about the dress. And the thing about
our guest is truly in the middle of sort of
release of a lifetime because this new album Humble Quest
is so great and you're not going to believe this,
like this podcast, it's critically acclaimed. Okay, Pitchfork is gagging,
all the girls are gagging. I mean, it's just so good.

(04:15):
And I've been a fan since obviously the album Hero
and I think I remember I remember she came to SNL.
Were you there when she was at SNL that I
was not working here at the time, but I remember
when she was the musical guest. I was like, I
gotta tune in and iconic and we talked about eighties
mercendies on this show all the time, about how it
was a watershread moment. But just to sort of run

(04:35):
through the credits, if you're living under a rock, I
mean just Grammy winner five times c M A winner,
five times a c M winner, I mean just an incredible,
incredible not just country music, crossover artist. There's R and
B influences in her music, there's pop also, a member
of the High Women. I mean, this is just like

(04:56):
truly a gaft for lost pljuris this. I don't think
that there's anyone better at TBH TVH, no one better.
We're so excited. Chiefs here, please welcome. Oh my gosh,
I wanted to chime in so many times in your
plea I cannot. I did not know that you guys

(05:16):
were at the Bowery show. It was amazing because I
distinctly remember that was my first real time to headline
a New York City show because that was the Hero
tour and we were in clubs, So doing the Bowery
I remember for the first time really getting to see
my crowd because I think that was one of the
first shows of the tour, so I didn't know what

(05:37):
my crowd looked like yet. I had only done you know,
radio and streaming, so doing live performances as a different model,
and so getting to see like you guys were in
that you were like the guinea pigs. You're in the
gas of the tour, Marin. But I remember there was
this like gay guy in the crowd. Maybe it was
one of you. Um, some guy had perfectly choreographed an

(06:02):
entire routine to my song how It's Done, Every word
had emotion to go with it. I was just gagged you.
You probably didn't even know you were making music that
could have choreo attached. I didn't know. I truly didn't

(06:25):
at that point. It was it was like and also
I was like blown awaite because the thing is like,
when you listen to your album, there's obviously so much
like character in your voice, and you have such a
You're such an incredible storyteller. I didn't know you had
all these runs, like the dexterity in your voice, Like
we were looking at each other like bitches singing down

(06:46):
like you really were like killing the vocals, Like not
that I didn't know that, but like your live singing
is insane. Thank you. I that's such a huge comp
went I. It's just tripping me out before even coming
onto this show because I I'm a fan of both
of y'all's. But Matt, like I have followed you years

(07:09):
ago because I remember it was I don't know if
it's still up, but you did this parody of the
Lover track list? Did you take it down to down?
But just because you know, it's like you can only
parody someone that well when you love them you have
a deep, like absolutely deep respect for their craft. But Matt,

(07:32):
I think you might actually be a songwriter because the
one that I showed Ryan we were on vacation and
you made this whole track list up in your mind.
I think maybe before the album was actually out, but
it was the one where you're like, whoa bit do
you see that? Yeah? That was actually the opening track

(07:56):
of my lover parody albums. I am going to put
it back up because people did get into my d
M s and they were like, where did it go?
You have to put it back up. This is how
I it's your greatest hits. I mean, I want to
have access to them at all points. But no, that
was when I started following you because I was telling Ryan.
I was like, this guy made an entire fake track

(08:19):
list and his singing hooks that could I mean, I
don't know if I can say it, but if I'm
quoting you, but you can. I think the hardest we
both laughed like all year was that. But I would
be oh my god, I would be honored if someone
went out of their way to do an entire parody

(08:41):
of my album track list. I mean it was brilliant
as just a songwriter myself who was like in the
public eye. I mean, oh my gosh, if someone did
that good of I mean I wouldn't even call it
a read, but I mean it was. It was just
perfection and your your melodies were just I mean, that's
very kind. I'm partial to gay rights because I mean, Marin,

(09:07):
are you are you do you have phono graphic memory
or do you do you do you kind of like
have this like ear for just any little sound that
you can replicate. Well, I've also listened to his version
of this track list many times. It's not phono graphic.
But is that the one featuring and dowd? Oh? God? Okay, yeah,

(09:35):
sorry too. I'm a fan girling on that. Is it
sort of iconic that we get you on this podcast
and you talk about my music? Yes? But I refused,
I refused to continue. All right, sorry, I'll stop where
I'm done germing. But it was just, oh my god,
what a great what a great thing. That's taste. I

(09:58):
have to say, like, I'm obviously a fan of all
your albums, but this album Humble Quest like bone and
I have been um listening to it and I just think,
like lyrically, especially this is like your best i mean
background music. When I heard it, I was like, this,
to me, is the best song you've ever written? Like that,
that's like, how do you feel in terms of like

(10:19):
as a songwriter looking at your own work, because I
also I also sense in your lyrics that you're you're
definitely a self critic and hard on yourself, especially in
like you know, I can't love you anymore in humble quests,
like I can tell that you are someone that's self critical.
How are you feeling about like what you've done here?
I think it's the only way I can like stomach
doing such a self indulgent job is especially through the

(10:43):
country storytelling is just too poke holes in the balloon
and just laugh because it's just I mean, the last
two years have been tough for everybody but everything, especially
in the touring industry, which is going to be fractured
for a long time and its rebuilding. But I mean,

(11:03):
it was just going on such a toxic path downward
and we were all so addicted to it and just
kind of getting used to it always looking like that.
And now I think the only way I could have
written this album is out of just having this sense

(11:25):
of levity and knowing that you're not in control of anything.
I can't believe you thought you were, Um, you're not
that cool. Take it down a notch. I think like
it was just humbling all around to be like, I
can't tour. I had, you know, my son at the
very beginning of COVID, I had you know, an unplanned,

(11:45):
you know, emergency C section. There was there's all these
things that were out of my grip, and you know,
I was like, God, I'm going to kill myself if
I keep taking it this seriously. It's just not good
for me. I don't think it's breeding the best art,
the best lyrics, the best honesty for me, and I'm
kind of becoming a pill to be around. So I

(12:07):
think just all of it made me be like, you
know what, I'm lucky to get to do this for
a living and have people that buy tickets to my
shows and listen to the records. But I cannot do
this and treat myself the way I have been any
longer if I want to have any longevity here. And

(12:29):
so it just made me loosen my grip and start
to laugh at things and just not take it so
seriously in a time where everything was so serious and
um yeah, I think it allowed me to maybe access
even more vulnerable parts of me to write on a
page that's really apparent. I think I think I've heard

(12:51):
you say with this album that because touring wasn't like
a prospect, you weren't sort of beholding to this deadline
in terms of songwriting, and so was it was this
journey that you had with not having touring as this
like thing in your future being terrifying, scary, throwing everything
into question about, you know, the way you work, that

(13:12):
eventually became something kind of liberating, and that you were like, well,
I can actually write from a place of like not
worrying about when I get to perform this or how
I do it or like was that was was as
it fair to say that that's like the arc of that. Yeah,
it was kind of the first time in a very
long time I didn't have a deadline to get anything
turned in. No one did. And I remember the first
few months of people starting to write via zoom. I mean,

(13:35):
my husband was doing it, and it just looked so
depressing to try to write a song through this screen
and to not be able to connect with people on
a vibrational level. I mean, just being in the room
with someone trying to create sound is just so hard
to do through a two dimensional screen. And so yeah,
for the first six months of Quarantine, I was like,

(13:57):
what is the point, Like if we can't play these songs,
is outlive? Like does the world really need another song
written today? M Yeah, I think just eventually that bitterness
wore away and I was like, actually maybe I should
give you know, give it a go, because there's no
there's no pressure once and it was almost like when

(14:20):
I've made my first record, it was like you kind
of like the old saying is you have your whole
life to make your first record, and you have five
minutes to make your second one because there's just no
expectation on you in that first record. It's like you're
just like shooting in the dark and you have no
nothing to live up to yet there's no bar set,

(14:41):
so it's really freeing. And yeah, I think that it was.
This was a lot more fun to make then I
would say my last record, just even though I love
girl and like the Bones ended up becoming this crazy
thing that none of us could have first seen. Um,
I don't think mentally I was in like the most

(15:03):
healthy space just touring constantly and making that record. But um,
you hear how people say that about like when they're
like when they're having a really huge moment, you do here.
I remember Kelly Clarkson. I'm a huge Kelly Clarksonson, and
I'm gonna ask about Second Wind. But like she talks
a lot about how when she was at her apex

(15:25):
like her I guess imperial phase pop stardom was when
she was like I felt she was going to die
every day. You know. It's it's really hard to manage
that expectation, your own happiness, your schedule, and so it
must be kind of cool to have that. Literally nature
and the universe say you're slowing down. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(15:45):
And I think it just ended up breeding better art.
And I'm not even just talking about myself. I mean
I'm biased because I wrote it, but my friends that
put records out during this time, I think it was
their best work because I don't know, it's just it.
Kind of the silver lining of COVID was that, at
least on a creative level, I mean, we were just
allowed to breathe for a second and not tie our

(16:09):
value or are worth to the applause and flowers that
we get like like that, that kind of immediate hit
of attention that we all crave and desire and get
addicted to. We didn't have that so it really was
like do you love this? Do you love this enough
to keep doing it? And some of us said no,

(16:29):
and some of us you know, said yes and stuck
in the ring. And I think that a lot of
my friends put out my favorite works of theirs during
this time. Do you mind asking who check out? So
rust and Kelly is one of them. His second record
was so I mean, both records are incredible, but and
also like, I don't know her, but I'm obsessed, and
it brought me and a lot of people out of

(16:50):
our COVID. Doldrums was like that dualipa future nostal director.
I always especially now looking back, you really realize how
important that album was. Yeah, not that she made it
during the pandemic, but she was brave enough to like
put it out during such an uncertain time and make
like spin gold out of it just such a crazy,

(17:11):
chaotic window, and it ended up becoming one of her
biggest records and you know, most hits of her career.
And it was just such a piece of It's just
such a sliver of sunlight and in all of our world.
That was one of my favorites of the last couple
of years. I mean, just things that kept me inspired
to to get back in the writing room. Honestly, yeah,

(17:33):
I kind of have this jealousy over you or anyone
keying into a way of working and writing without a deadline,
because I don't know if Matt you agree with agree
with this, but if I don't have a deadline, it's
it's kind of not going to get done. I don't know.
It's harder, it's hard, it's harder, and so and so
I think maybe part of it is like approaching it

(17:54):
differently and going, well, this is actually the best case
scenario in some way, like where I get to just
do ever I want, rather than be like overwhelmed daunted
by this concept of well, you're not like beholden to
any timeline, so you get to like be as indecisive
and like, like, if if it brings out like the
worst creative instincts in you in terms of being indecisive,

(18:15):
then like that's what you have to overcome. But if
you're already like in the pocket creatively, and this is
not just that you've always that, like you don't have
moments of like you know, like figuring stuff out as
you go, But like I think that just speaks to
you in your process that you get to just see
that in a very clear way to go, I don't
have a deadline. This means I can actually kind of
right from a liberated place. Yeah, and listen, I I'm

(18:38):
I kind of live in both worlds because I do
need structure, because I'm not a very self motivated person.
If i just have all the time in the world
to write an album or a song, even like, I
do need some structure, like I would be incredibly And
I was a failure at home schooling like in my
senior year of high school because I just didn't even
finish it because it was all online. I was like,

(19:01):
I'll get I'll get to it next week, and I
never did. So yeah, I ended up having to go
to the three week high school with all the like
pregnant girls. So that's that was I felt like such
about us. I finished high school in three weeks with
all the with all the knocked up girls. But yeah,

(19:21):
I do need some structure. Yeah, totally totally. But but
I mean I think that what COVID, in just those
two years of adapting taught all of us is that
it was extremely imbalanced where it was like, you know,
live to work, Live to Work, Live to Work, Yeah, yeah, totally.

(19:49):
What I really really like about this album too is
it's like because because especially following Girl and like you know,
the middle, which is like like a psycho pop song
that was like everywhere, it's we have the hum Quest
album now, and you still make us feel like we're
listening to you in a bar, you know what I mean,
Like this could be an album that like really reads
with like thirty people in a bar, like and everyone
you know, like applause after each song, like I'll sip

(20:12):
it between our drinks, you know what I mean. It
feels like it's an album for that atmosphere too. Not
to say it couldn't be played in arenas which humble
Quest to is happening, which is so exciting, but like
it feels intimate and also what I love is it's
it's still. And what I love about your writing is
the humor, like tall guys like truly dragging the short

(20:34):
King phenomenon, and I know, but it's just so funny
and like, I don't know, you're That's something that I
think makes you quintessentially country to like is the humor,
And I don't know, is that important. Not until I
put the record out, I learned what a short King was.
I put Tall Guys out. It got released because the

(20:56):
record was out at midnight. And then some tweet I
actually put it on instance, and it made me laugh
so hard. But it was some guy that was talking
about tall guys and it just said Marion Morris really
said fuck short Kings. And I was like, is that
is that its own phenomenon? Like I guess short Kings
are pop having a real moment right now, but it's

(21:17):
short Kings Spring, and so it's time bound. It's like
and it implies it's gonna end soon, like no Shave November,
like it's ex seasonal, it's seasonal short Kings. It's usual
short Kings. Tall tall guys are are are evergreen, you know, yeah,
because they're always going to be able to reach the
top shelf. That's a good line maybe for the New

(21:38):
York Show is like short King Spring, but tall guys
are evergreen. There you go, you're gonna writer co writer. Um.
I agree with Matt. There's that there's that a reverence
there and like and it's interesting that you were you
were saying earlier that like you are kind of you know,
not that you set out to do this, but like

(21:58):
that you're you're going to poking holes and like the
and the balloon of it all of country music, because
I think I think Circles Around This Town is one
of my favorite songs about like the process, like you're
writing anyone's writing process. I don't think that gets sung
like a none of people sing about their writing process.
And I know that sounds meta, but there's this other
metal layer with background music, where you're like, this is

(22:19):
what I aspire my music to be, is to like
be like either it's played in the background or it
works in the foreground of something like that takes a
lot of confidence, I think as a songwriter to go
I'm actually very cool with my songs being played like
as an undertone or ambiently. Yeah, and that song, well
background music specifically because my husband and I are both

(22:42):
songwriters and that's how we met, you know, nine years
ago in Nashville. We were paired together on a co write.
But you know, even though the song is very you know,
honest and it's a love song, it's talking about you know,
us being has been someday like whether that is going

(23:02):
to be true or not like we love to joke
with each other, especially in the last few years, we're like,
oh my god, like these few number ones we've had
under our belt, what if that's it? And what if
it's just us for the rest of this life. And
I just decided to spin it into a love song
with background music because I was like, I don't care.

(23:23):
I don't care if you get another number one song,
or you get this nomination or I get to go
do this or what have you. It's like, I just
don't think it adds any more specialness or value to
our relationships as you know, friends, and we don't have
a son now, it's like it just doesn't it's not

(23:44):
as valuable to put our worth and things like that.
But we do love to joke like, oh yeah, when
I'm like playing in the casinos and I'm ninety years
old and you have to like wheel me off stage
because I'm never going to retire like someday, like that
might actually be a very real concept. And then even
further than that, when we're both dead, like will these

(24:06):
songs still be played? Like maybe that's our legacy is
not like our memories or even our kids kids. It's
like the work that we put in. Was it was
it special? Was it timeless? Will it be played in
a hundred years if you just don't know? It's so
specific and special and just the line not everybody gets

(24:27):
to leave a souvenir like it's it's like acknowledging each
other and like what you guys get to do together,
And it's really it's specific to you guys, but it's
it's like romantic and evocative for everyone. And when I
heard that song, I remember it came out before the album,
and I just played it again and again because I
was like, I mean, I've always been like such an
admirer of your writing, but this was just like it

(24:50):
was it was. It's so great. It really it really
it really moves me. Thank you. Yeah, I love it
for this thing just another just like sweet like and whatever.
This is my like literal read on it. It's like
about distance and um and yet still feeling this like closeness,

(25:10):
this proximity in spite of that, Like I don't know
these are I I can't think of a lot of
other songs that like touch on these things in the
same like poetic sense that you kind of get to
voke out of them like it's really, I just it's
such a great album and like we're I think I
think we're just like gonna keep fawning over your for
a little bit longer, but like it's just so good.

(25:32):
Well rate hit rate with exposing Marion Morris to people
is like a hundreds always. Jill Kim Booster is a
very close friend of ours. He's a comedian and we
were playing um we were driving back from Palm Springs
and I played him hero and he by the end
was a stand like and our friend, our friend Sudi
just reached out to us and was to texting me.
I was like, I love Marion Morris. I was like,
where have you been? And then I realized, like, you know,

(25:54):
it's just I don't know. I feel like as more
people hear it, and already so many have. Obviously that
thing that you said is going to be true with
that music last because it well, thank you. I I'm
always and it's not false humility, I think because country
music in so many ways, and you know, I've been
able to tour, you know, all over the States, all

(26:14):
over the world, South America, Europe, what have you been
In a lot of ways country music is still very
niche to people. So it doesn't shock me that you're
saying that someone was like probably not going to listen
to this on their own accord. You had to be
the one to tell them no, actually go check it out.

(26:35):
And then they do. And it's like, I, you know,
having done songs like the Middle and you know, been
in the High Women, and you know, just having you know,
my own solo success, I feel like just my music
has always been genre lists, even though I do think
it sits in country music comfortably. I think that I'm

(26:58):
happy to be the gateway drop for anyone that would
turn their nose up at country music to be like,
wait a second, actually might might like this. It's such
a huge compliment because it transcends genre lines in such
a powerful way, which it should. Yeah, And another thing
about you, which I think is really really cool and

(27:19):
really important is you are sort of like a huge
voice for gender and racial equity in country music and
at large, like and I just think that like you
stepping out especially like sort of as you know, I
think probably one of the music women in country music
that gets played on the radio the most. And I
know I've heard a lot of people speaking out about

(27:40):
like you need to play women on country music like etcetera.
And you are played and for you to be like
people need to be listening to Mickey Guyton, like people
need to be listening to all these people. And then
to see her embrace like I was bummed to see
her lose the Grammy a couple of weeks ago, but like,
you know, it's just really cool to see and I
think that's it's it's important. And I wonder that must
have been, Like maybe it wasn't difficult for you to

(28:02):
come out and say that. Well, I don't. I don't
know if everyone This is a very hard industry, and
I feel like the music business is a lot of
times more business than music, and not everyone gets to
sign up for this and say I'm going to also
be this activist. But I don't think it's activism. I
think it's even if you are played and you're one

(28:24):
of the few that got chosen to be played on
the radio, like sticking your neck out and not counting
your dollars is how I'd like to go out, Like
I just I don't know, I don't. It's so it's
so finite, isn't it, Like you don't know how much
time you get here. You don't know. We call it
like a ten year town. Maybe I get like a
ten year run of doing this, who knows. But I'm

(28:47):
gonna pretend like this could all be burnt to the
ground in a year, and maybe I'll be the one
with the matches. But I feel like it's just so
stupid to like keep your mouth out about things that
just visibly make you uncomfortable, like physically make you ill,
just like say something. So it's my job as the

(29:10):
person with the platform to be like, I have to
make this a safer environment for everybody, like not just women,
like people of color, LGBTQ, like all all perspectives to
feel like they can be housed here and be safe
for two hours. That's like, that's just like push pull

(29:31):
of like being specifically. I'm sure you write songs in
a way that is meant to relate to other people's experiences,
but then it's also it should be personal. It has
to be personal. Um, And this is just something that
a lot of artists do. But I think especially in
country where you kind of it seems for whatever reason
more conscious that you go. Let me really like put

(29:52):
a mold on like how I want um my music
to be received. Let me really be specific, and yet
so on some level universal with so many things, I
feel like, you know, I always always not to generalize,
but I always end up liking country musicians in the
way that they work because because because there is this

(30:14):
like super structure for better for worse in terms of
like how country music is run, in terms of like
the songwriting, and in terms of like who gets you know,
paired together or whatever. You know, I feel like there's
something nice about that, and yet there's also something that
you kind of have to destabilized just a little bit
in order to make it feel like fresh and new
or different. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, I know totally.

(30:36):
And I was just thinking, like in my genre that
I am at home in, I look at, you know,
it's kind of already beating the odds to to get
any radio play or anything. Is always kind of attached
to me also being a female, like oh, she broke
this record, but she's only female to have done it,

(30:58):
like she's not in the the echelon the boys. But
but then I look at like the things that I
get to do because I have made my way of
thinking known. It's like like doing The High Woman, like
being one of the few like country Bumpkins that gets
to do SNL as a remusical guest, Like that was

(31:21):
such a moment, Like working with like John Mayer and
Elton John and like Taylor and like just all of
the things I've gotten to do Z Like it's it's
just been crazy, like the things that I get asked
to be a part of, not just because like I'm
country as a genre of it, because like maybe they
heard a song of mine or my album, but they

(31:43):
also like saw me give an interview and Playboy. There's
just these things that are kind of outside of the
scope that you know, I've taken risks on and even
like doing not that this is but like but even
getting asked to do this and like this and why

(32:04):
would you want to It's like such an amazing like
y'all's conversations on here so elevated and so funny. And
I had so many people reach out to me when
you guys like I saw your DM Matt, but it
was but I think it was before the episode aired, maybe,
but I had so many people like the night my
album came out or maybe was the next night saying

(32:26):
last cultureristas they talk about constructing their d M to
and I was like, well, I immediately responded, But the
thing is, like, I don't know. I I think especially
at the time when you when you did d M
ME after the Taylor thing, I was like, I literally
was shook because you you really were in my like
top rotation, like ever since I found you, Like you

(32:49):
really are one of my favorites. And then I told everybody,
and then what the second everyone listened to your album,
like all my friends wanted to go to your show,
and then we did and had the best time, and
we're bigger fans Ben, So just know that, like you've
impacted us immeasurably in terms of us enjoying your music
and like what you do and how you do it.
So I just can't say enough. We want to ask

(33:20):
you the question, Isn't that right, bo, It's that's a question, Okay,
We want to ask it, Marin, What is the culture
that made you say culture is for me? This is
a formative piece of pop culture. It could be a movie,
a TV show, an album, or it could be like
the town you grew up in. It could be like
the school you went to it can be. It's a
pretty broad with broad answers. It's it's yeah, it's really okay.

(33:45):
There's a few, but I feel like, Um, the movie
Steel Magnolia's was the movie because my mom's a hairdresser,
and oh my god, so I grew I basically like
my sister and I. We grew up in hersal on
and we would get to like style the mannequin heads,
and you know, that was my first real job, was
like being a receptionist for her salon. But um, watching

(34:08):
the movie Steel Magnolia's as a kid, I only knew
Dolly Parton as Truvy. I didn't know she was Dolly Parton,
the country music star. I just thought she was an actress.
And then through a movie about southern hair and diabetes, Um,

(34:30):
I found Dolly Parton and her golden light of songwriting
and feminism and just all the things that she has
done over the last thirty forty years. Um, writing the
most beautiful songs in history, but also such a diversified
human like she has, she has a theme park. What

(34:52):
else can say that? No? What? So I just was
I think that was what made me think, Okay, how
country music is fucking cool. Yeah, if they have her
at the at the Helm. And then also, not that
I've done any movies or anything like that, but I
was like, she got so much ship in the seventies

(35:14):
for going pop, crossing it over. Yes. Yeah, And there's
this amazing, very passive aggressive interview with Barbara Walters that's
iconic with Dolly. Barbara Walters did passive aggressive like no
one else sexually. A culture number hundred three? Is that
to the interview you're talking about, Dolly's clearly like a

(35:35):
little uncomfortable, a little annoyed throughout the whole thing. It's
kind of like it's so poised, so poised, sweetly laughing
off like all these condescending fucking questions. And then and
that was what was the answer that you were going
to talk about? Well, I mean I can't remember specifically
what Barbara asks her, but it was just like talking
bringing country to like a like a wider audience basically, right. Yeah,

(35:57):
She's like, what do you think about like the people
the ends of your own genre that you know made
you like, are you biting the hand that feeds you
by going pop? And she was like, I'm always going
to be country music. Dolly is country, but I want
to bring Dolly to the world. And I was just floored.
And I still go back and watch that every few
months because I feel like, in my own way and

(36:21):
not in any way, shape or form, comparing myself to Dolly,
but having you know, worked with her and also just
come up in this genre and have done many different
kinds of projects over the years. I just always think about,
I'm just trying to bring me to the world, like
I don't I'm not beholden to I'm not going to
be shackled to anything against my will. I'm gonna stay

(36:44):
have a foot here because I love it and I
respect it and it made me the songwriter I am today.
But I'm I'm not going to be beholden to it,
like it's only going to cap my creativity, my my honesty,
my worth, And so yeah, I think that's what like
that movie. Weirdly still, Magnolia has made me just I mean,

(37:05):
for its iconic for hundreds of reasons and Shirley McClean
olympiadaccus alone I but yeah, it kind of opened me
up to country music in a way that I I
didn't find it just through music. I found it through
this this film from the eighties. Yeah, it's really really iconic.
A drink your due Shelby of course, a line for

(37:27):
the history of time. It's just so funny you say this.
I watched nine to five on the plane last night.
Oh this was meant to be. I had never seen
it before. But I do this other podcast for HBO
Max and we have we're talking about nine to five
and I had never seen it, and I watched it
and she really is like she's great on screen. Oh yeah,

(37:48):
I And the my favorite thing and it's so her
is the way that she wrote the song nine to
five for that film, And I can't believe it didn't
win the Oscar Like that song not win, but it
was nominated. But the reason I don't know if it
was like the typewriter or it was like her acrylic nails.
She was like doing this one day in her trailer
where she was like and still with the kitten, and

(38:13):
like she did it with her freaking fake nails. Wrote
a song that's so so legendary. Is there is there
like a legend that like, um, I think when they
were when they were bringing into Broadway or something, she
like went to New York flew to New York. I
thought that she had to like righte the entire show
and present the entire show, like all the songs in

(38:34):
the show to the producers the next day. So she
stayed up and wrote basically the entire show for the
musical version of Mind to Five, and then showed up
the next day and like the producers were like floor
that she brought like a completed score, a full score,
all the songs, all the written, all the lyrics basically
written out in the music arranged, and they're like, you

(38:54):
didn't have to do all that, like from the jump,
you know, like that's just Dolly. Even the film nine
to five she says, like in one of her interviews
that's older. She talks about showing up day one on
set with like Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin. She had never
been in a film before, so Dolly thought it was
customary to just learn the entire script, not just her lines.

(39:18):
She literally knew every person in the film's lines, including
her own, and they were like, oh no, no, you
just need to know yours for just in case if
someone needs help. One very harassment, Yeah it does. Yeah,
just overachiever, Like there's something like I have to go
back to this all the time, like it's about the

(39:39):
work and not to be like not not even like
a capitalist sense, but in the sense of like you
should be you should like there should be a relationship
with the work that you feel like you're enjoying it,
that there's like a craftsmanship in it, you know that,
like you're getting in there and like getting your hands dirty.
I'm sure you relate to this on some level with songwriting.

(39:59):
I mean, Matt, I relate to this in terms of
like writing like anything MENI or anything um in that vein.
But it's like Dolly always reminds me of that. Always
It's always Dolly. Then I'm like in a field that
I have nothing to do with in music, but I
can look to and go wow, that is like aspirational
in so many ways. Yeah, what was the experience of

(40:20):
meeting her, Like, I'm sure she adores you, like and
what's what's your what's the relationship there? And what was
it like meeting her? I mean, I will say she
was extremely punctual, like she was always on time. So
the High Women. The High Woman and I were playing
Newport Folk Festival in twenty nineteen, and the High Women
are myself, Brandy Carlyle, Natalie Hemby and Amanda Shires. And

(40:44):
I had never played Newport Folk Festival. But it's like
this legendary folk festival where you know, Bob Dylan went
electric and you know, Chris Christofferson and Johnny Cash met backstage.
It's just and Joni Mitchell played, and James Taylor. It's
just like a really iconic festival. And Dolly, in all
of her decades of just being an icon, had never

(41:05):
played it. And so a surprise, the High Women were
going to be closing out the festival. And it's sunset
on Sunday, last day the festival. You're overlooking like the
harbor and we get to introduce Dolly and the place
just went ape shit. I mean, she came out in

(41:26):
this yellow of course, it's like archival umnody suit that
has like wagon wheels all over it. I think from
her days of working with like Porter Wagner. And she's
so tiny, but we had done rehearsals with her in
Nashville the week prior, so just like it still gives
me chills, but we were working and rehearsing with her
at our Cia Studios um in studio A that room

(41:50):
and it's the big room, and that's where she recorded
I Will Always Love You and Joelene. And I don't
think if I recall what she said, she said she
had not been back in that room since she recorded
those songs, So like rehearsing with her in that room
was just I mean, it could all in tomorrow and

(42:13):
I'll be able to say that I was in the
room with her that day. But she's just so lovely
she I mean, she definitely like like the swear word
I love. I love when I find out that someone
is a secret it. Yeah, I mean she she's just

(42:34):
such a like I don't know, but it's one of
those people, whether they truly remember you or not, they
made you feel like they did. And so I don't
even care to know if she did or not. I
was like, she makes you feel so special, and she
lives up to such an impossibly high reputation and expectation

(42:59):
and she exceeds it. So I just there aren't enough
glowing things I could say about her, But she's she's
dolly not to get to like existential, But there is
something so crazy about like you being in that room
with her and her having some like hugely impastful effect
on your life that you would end up in that room.

(43:20):
Does that make sense? Like kind of thing back looking back,
like like she's kind of that you know, she's part
of the reason why you are there with her, that
she's she's part of the reason why you do what
you do. Is that fair to say that, like part
of your artistry as a country musician has is very
tied to like the way you admired her growing up.
Oh yeah, I mean just I can't step for step

(43:44):
like model my career after somebody's, but if I had to,
it would be her. And you know, to this day,
I mean in such I mean it's still very male dominated,
you know, Nashville country music, but in a time where
it was especially taboo to even talk about it, she
was charming and disarming her way through these like corporate

(44:05):
suits and making everyone love her. Like I'm sorry, I
think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I
cannot be as funny or quick as her. Um, it's
like it's not it's not my superpower. But yeah, it's
just crazy to to kind of have all these you know,

(44:26):
ends tied up for me and like getting that chance
with her and just I don't know, like for a
few hours getting to soak her in. It was just
something that like I don't think you have six year
old me watching Steeve Magnolias would have ever fathomed, but
is one for the books. I will say, I am
excited for your theme park, though, I'm excited for your

(44:49):
like the bones Hunted house. Like, wait, what was your
surgery called? It was called me what it was like?
Maren got to me, that's actually shirt. Actually Maren got
to me, is but like you could be selling like
a Cola Cola on a Christmas Day? Wait? Can I

(45:11):
ask about that? Is that a thing? Is Coca Cola
on a Christmas Day? A thing? Because I had never
heard it felt so vivid? Yeah, But one was like, well,
well no, I remember, like I was. It was Christmas.
It was Christmas Day, and I think I went to
Maren's Instagram and she posted a picture like under a
Christmas tree holding like a green can of coke, which

(45:32):
was like the sugar real sugar, and she's like a
Coca Cola on a Christmas Day And I was like, well,
now I want to fucking Coca Cola. We were influenced.
I was like, really influenced. I have written so many
things and songs that I have to like live with You,
live with the Coca Cola on a Christmas Day. That

(45:53):
literally was just like me and my co writers trying
to think of a bunch of alliteration, like I mean,
I mean, it's like, oh, you give your on Halloween,
you give yourself a swirly Like it wasn't like quite
that intense. But the other one was like eighties Mercedes.
Everyone asked me like, did you finally go buy one?

(46:15):
And I was like, no, I didn't, but I mean
some day I will. If I end up being like
rich enough of to be like the j Leno of
car collectors or Jerry Seinfeld, I'll get one, like a
nice one that i'll soup up. But totally eighties Mercedes
is your So Dolly Parton's Dollywood has Thunderhead as like

(46:37):
an iconic wooden roll cluster, Yours is eighties Mercedes. It's
very clear you're branding the theme park already. I hope,
Oh my god, you're helping me and Arlington. Arlington needs
a theme park because I don't know how six Flags
is doing. Oh I don't know how six Flags over
Texas is doing. We need Mary Morris to the theme park. No,

(46:57):
but I've been to six Flags like all over. I
was like a roller coaster kid growing up, Like I
love theme parks, Like it's like very much my thing.
Are you laughing at me? Drag me? But like I
just heard, you know, six Flags is not exactly thriving.
So I'm just saying, sure, Maren Gottomy, I just have
to quickly tell you in person, quote unquote that, um,

(47:20):
the interval between Haunted Get like there's there's something about
like Get like that interval is like demonically amazing, like
something so like powerful and the way that like your
voice goes from that note to the other note and
it immediately like lights up my fucking yeah into the chorus,

(47:44):
it explodes you into the course. And I don't know,
it's just I remember, and this is not not not
to bring the mood down, but I remember Election day.
I was like, okay, here we go, today's the day.
And I was blasting hero and specifically eighties Mercedes. I
was like, all right, like let's like get pumped blasting
eighties Mercedes. And then of course the night turned out

(48:06):
the way it did. But I was just like, I
remember one of the memories I have of that night
is blasting eighties Mercedes on my way to like watch
the returns come in, and then um, it's it's an
emotional I have an emotional tie to that song in
a way that is very specific to me, and I
will always it started and then lost to the second second. Okay,

(48:30):
wait quickly before I asked you about housewives and then
we do I don't think so honey, Oh my god, yes, okay,
second wind you right? And this is like when you
were like songwriting pretty much down and then Kelly Clarkson
wants it. How the fund do you feel at that point? Oh,
oh my god. I was just clawing at the bit
to get anybody to record my songs. So when they

(48:51):
said that Kelly had even heard it, had reached her
ear drums, I was like, that was so rare for
a Nashville songwriter to gonna have a pop star hearing
nobody's songs. And uh, I mean even even and I
love her even though it ended up as a bonus track,
I will forever get to say that she recorded my

(49:14):
song and then like I've met her since and she
has said like she has. I love her and I
want to go on her show and I want us
to like sing Second Win together. Oh you really? That
would be really good. Yeah, she's she's amazing and she's
another like Texas Homesound queen of mine. But yeah, I
mean no, I was just floored. And the thing about

(49:36):
Kelly Clarkson is you know she's not going to suck
it up. She's gonna elevate it. There's some I will say,
she's did that piece by piece for remix album, and
I think the Second Win it's a cheek codes remix.
Have you heard it? I probably have at one point,
but not a few years. Give it, give it another

(49:56):
encounts her Okay, but it's it's it's a solid I
think it's the best red its on that sort of release.
But it's like that's when I knew. I was. That's
that's why the middle didn't surprise me, not because I
was like, oh, this works like the songwriting here, the
melodies here work perfectually with like an electro pop song.
I was just like, I'm gonna go listen to it

(50:17):
after this, I need to refresh. Okay, it's all it's
excellent anyway, Wait, but you were saying Real Housewives because
I was just listening to your garcell episode, who I loved.
So I was asked to guest host Jimmy Kimmel last
summer also love. Yeah, okay, but garcel was unavailable that

(50:44):
day and we were I didn't realize like with those
late night shows, they book people up to sometimes the
day and like Kyle Kyle was unavailable, Garcella was unavailable.
They were all out of town, and I was like,
Sutton better be available because you didn't want to have
Erica come in there. No, and I have so many

(51:07):
I have so many Housewives stories and I've been on
like Watch What Happens Live, which also you did an
amazing job, Matt. We haven't talked about this. Matt was
so that was like pinnacle right there that it was
the peak. And I was on with um Karen Huger,
which was like iconic for me, and she's so nice.
And speaking of tall guys, I met Andy Cohen and

(51:28):
he goes, you're so tall. He didn't realize how I
was going to be tall. I was. I was like,
did you think I was going to be a twink?
And he just gave me a hug. I mean, I
don't know, but no, I and you always it's so
lucky when you get on with someone that you actually
want to talk to. Who did you? Who are you
on with? So I've done it a handful of times.

(51:48):
The second time was Zoom and that was with three
and she was lovely. The first time was with was
in person and this was when my Girl album came out.
But that was with Teddy and I need to get
on there. But I met Kyle and her whole family.
They came to my show and Aspen last ball at
this and she's like, so she's as short as me,

(52:11):
She's like five one. I feel like, so beautiful and
her whole family. Like meeting Mauricio after ten years of
watching this man on this show, I was just living
and my whole band they were like my guitar player
was talking to Mauricio and he was like talking about
real estate and has no idea who Mauricio is. God,

(52:32):
He's like, oh my god, that guy is so nice.
I was just asking him like does he ever sell
houses in Nashville? And I was like it was like Ben,
He's he's like a multimillionaire, Like he doesn't do real estate,
like he owns a huge real estate like multi really
like multi continental firm. Like he literally thought he just

(52:53):
sold houses. He was like, he sells like mansions and hotels.
But anyhow, I'm playing stage Coach next week in Palm Springs,
and I'm gonna hang out at Kyle's house the night before.
Maybe we need like a like a recap episode of

(53:13):
Lost Culture Rista's where I tell you that we actually,
I literally I need you might need to come back
and tell you're playing Stagecoach. Wait is and what date?
What dates? Is that in Palm Springs? So not this Friday,
but next Friday. My friend a Sports is like a
huge country fan, huge fan of yours, and he would die.
I might have to say we might we might have
to go out there, tell him to go. It's where
Coachella is. It's the same grounds, but it's the week

(53:33):
after Coachella, so we get all the dust. Oh my god, obsessed?
So wait, what what do you what do you think
of the trailer for Beverly Hills. I mean it looks insane,
like I just and I get so invested and I
don't know how much of it is real. But just
after talking to Kyle at the Aspen thing. It was
like the week they were shooting the reunion, like she

(53:56):
hadn't shot it yet, and I was so floored that
she is willing to talk to me about any of
this stuff for like forty minutes, and I was like,
what Erica, Like, what is she going to do? And
I was so I was like three glasses of rose
and talking to Kyle after my show, and I was like, honestly,
maybe Erica should do like a charity show in l

(54:18):
A where she just brings all of her clothing and
just auctions it off and uses that money to give
to the victims. She just doesn't want to do like that.
Kyle was like, that has never occurred to anybody, how her,
because the ethos she's like putting out there is that
it's like I don't know if it's editing in the trailer,

(54:39):
but it's like I don't give a funk about anyone
but me, Like I think that like sums it up.
I think she's being herself totally, but like, like that's
that that there's a darkness there if we can all agree, like,
oh you really, And she's like Matt and I have said,
like she's just committed to I'm sorry, like she's committed
to Monster, you know, like that Sulla super villain, the

(55:00):
Marvel the like origin story that we're getting for for Erica.
Marvel could never like like like whatever's happening with Scarlett
Witch and Marvel with Elizabeth Olsen, it's not even touching
what is going on with Like we're going to be
running in the streets from Erica. Jane's suitting lasers out
of her eyes in l A I can I can
feel it. It's like she is she is getting to

(55:21):
the point where she because even the games, even the
Gates have like thrown her Army of Gaze have like
thrown down their weapons. Like there no one's on board
with this anymore except like her and I guess Mikey
is Mikey even on payroll still who knows? We haven't
seen in Is it going to be like the Searcy
thing where it's just like she ends up completely like

(55:44):
that just everyone's like, oh no, not with that crazy no.
And then she if if it is Searcy, then she
she blows up everybody in one place that like the
trial or whatever. Um. Yes, Sutton realized Sutton realizes the
doors were all locked. She's not coming, She's got shown up.

(56:05):
She has no intentions of comn she knows what's going on.
What other franchises do you watch? Are you like a
Bravo superfan? Are you Beverly Hills? I mean, I've watched
New York. I feel like I only have the bandwidth,
an emotional bandwidth, to deal with Real Housewives at Beverly Hills,

(56:25):
which from season one two now it has consistently been
great television. Like there's just not a dud. I mean,
even the ones that weren't that good, we're still really good. Yea.
Even the Carlton season, it was like, I'll watch it still.

(56:48):
It was so funny on the reunion when they brought
up Carlton and Garcela was like, who is Carlton? And yeah,
my favorite, my favorite line of Carlton's is when Kyle
gives her like a necklace and she's like, I gave
you a necklace, Carlton, how can I not like you?
And she's like it's in water, like she's cleansing the necklace.

(57:12):
Oh my god. Honestly, in many ways, Beverly Hills was
a song of ice and fire between Kyle and a
Lisa Vanderpump and I guess sort of fire one over
Ice there, but now really Erica is representing Ice. What
what is your read on Renna? Like, what's your type
of Sean Rena? I mean, I feel like it's got

(57:33):
to be just her amplifying a personality. I don't know
if you were yeah, like, I don't know, if you
were just on your couch watching Netflix and drinking with
her on a Friday night, she would be giving you
that oh you're so angry. I don't think that's her.
I think she would probably be kind of like a

(57:54):
down home chick. I could just be completely misreading it
because I've done it's people. But um, I don't know,
Like what's y'alls read on her? I haven't met her, right,
I think Renna has her gears and like she's she's
got the Housewives gear. She's got like the e red
carpet gear, like gear TVC. Like she knows how to

(58:16):
like be her own like variation. Yeah, I mean to
put food on Ryan's table. I don't know if I
would do all that. I don't know if I would
do a diaper endorsement. I think I would just be like,
it's not gonna work out, like we're gonna get divorced.
I won't, I won't wear the diaper full stop, full stop. No.

(58:39):
But yes, she really has no shame. I think. Well,
first of all, I do did a diaper endorsement recently too.
Sorry just putting that. That's that's almost like shady a
little bit. It's almost like stepping on the on the turf.
I'm fascinated. I will say, um, the diaper cartel. I
do identify in many areas of my life as a

(59:01):
Wrenna because I can't help myself sometimes. Wouldn't Rena be
iconic to watch what happens? Because you know she's going
to start ship right in front of you. Oh yeah.
And she's also like kind of even more outrageous on
watch what Happens Live sometimes than shut glasses and yeah,
and she's like flipping the camera off. Yeah, she was

(59:25):
like she was starting chaos all over the place. Yeah,
she was like, I'm going down in flames on my
own terms. Garcella also always starts and watch it Happens live.
It's like there's always something that pisses someone off about Garcetta,
like the other day, I forget what it was, but
of course that was the iconic thing of her saying
Denise wanted to come back, but someone had to go,
and then it was a whole thing on the reunion. Yea,

(59:47):
I fucking love the show. We were in Fire Island
shooting the movie coming out, and one of my favorite
days I just texted Bone and all about it was
we woke up on a when on like a on
like a weekend, and we just watched the episode would
where Dorite said I don't understand it in four languages,
and we're like, this is the best show on TV.

(01:00:08):
I don't understand it. Oh my god, Oh it's so good.
All right, well we have to move to I don't
think so, honey. This is our one minute segment where
we you're gonna do great. Well, we rant about something

(01:00:30):
in culture and mine actually is sort of on topic. Okay,
all right, so this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey.
His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. That
it seems like Kathy Hilton is going to be the
villain of this season. I am not on board. And
this is so classic because you come on, you're a
fan favorite and then they try to get you the
second season it happened. I don't want it to happen

(01:00:50):
with Kathy. Now. Are the rumors that Kathy apparently called
Sutton stracs assistant a fag when he couldn't put a
bag on an airplane? Asked, is that I do think, so, honey?
Is it not also a little funny for me, as
a gay person to think of Kathy Hilton sitting there
in a corner watching a little gay trying to get
bag on to plan them and saying fag. I don't

(01:01:10):
think so, honey. I think that's kind of funny. You
want to see it? Um, This is the problem when
you tell people like Kathy Hilton that they can say fag,
they might. I'm so honey that we won't be able
to enjoy Kathy anymore, the hunky dory of it all,
the portable fan of it all. I kind of want
Kathy to just be what Cathy is. And I don't think, so, honey,
this is gonna be a tough reunion for her, which

(01:01:30):
Garcela said on Watch What Happens Live. I don't think, so, honey,
that we can't just enjoy Kathy. Please. I don't think so,
Honey us chasing Kathee away like Kathy Kathley Hope, Kyle
and her are okay, I don't think that's one minute
god and agreed, I'll count. There's something about a woman
that gay people love staying fag on a plane that

(01:01:52):
just kind of is like, it's okay, Banks did it,
you did it today? It was it was on a plane,
but Baron did it, and we and and she is allowed,
you asked for and you're reference you are referencing a
published work quote I was quoting quotations. Yeah, and happy

(01:02:13):
Hilton doing it. But I don't think that's the that's
the villain narrative for her completely, her being locked out
of that store to make me pee my pants laughing.
I can't believe it. Just the richest woman in the world,
like pulling a door and Erica jambiond like, don't get
don't open that really good. I want her to stay pure,

(01:02:37):
but I don't know if she will. Apparently it's bad.
I don't know. I mean she's untouchable, like she's like,
oh what, you don't want me on Real Housewives anymore?
Peace the funk out? Then yeah, I gotta go back
to my fucking hotel that I own. All right, bow
and Yang, do you have a topic, sweet deer? I

(01:02:57):
think so. I could I could do another, I could
do have every one, or I could do something else.
But what do you think? I think you should do
whatever your heart desires. I'm gonna do a Beverly Hills one,
but it's going to be a little bit of a
of a downer al right, oh yeah, and then and
then mine will be kind of like in the middle
of the great perfectly okay, perfect I don't think so, honey.

(01:03:21):
This time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Crystal
Kung Minkoff coming off as like a full SOB story
and the trailer for this season. I need her to
go back to the way she was beginning of season
what was it twelve eleven last season, where she was
like fully in Sutton's ship, like making her have a
mental breakdown every episode. Like I need that Crystal to

(01:03:42):
come back, Like the eating disorder thing is really, really,
really vulnerable, and it's really amazing that she like wants
to open up about that. But I need Crystal to
be mean and I'm sorry to say this word, but
bitchy again, that's what that is so powerful for her
as this like wealthy Asian woman to project on the TV.

(01:04:02):
Like in a way that's different from like Dragon Lady.
It's different from Tiger Mom. It's differ from crazy rich Asians.
It's a new ti of Asian woman that we have
not seen in the media, like bitchy Asian lady who
can like tear down a white woman at a fucking
backyard dinner party situation. I need her to wear allegedly
ugly leather pants and make a Southern woman lose her mind.
And that's fine a minute. What we need is iconic

(01:04:25):
rich Disney wife. Yes, that's all I need. That's all
I want from Crystal. I mean she can be of course,
she is this multidimensional woman who like has her struggles,
and it will be very important for her to talk
about this. Um. It seems like it's really going to
be sad though, like she's she's she's really struggling with that,
you know, like it's it's tough. It's happening on Jersey
right now with Jackie Goldschneider and what what I'm really

(01:04:47):
appreciating it about. It is such a vulnerable thing to
talk about and Crystal. I think I almost think Crystal
couldn't come back unless she talked about it. And I
think the good thing about when they do bring this
onto the show is that they're making a public and
concerted effort to get better. And that's that's that's I
So I'm in full support of it because I think

(01:05:08):
even if it's not like you know, iconic, like so
woman like, it is like something that's her real life
and all I want, all I want is for her
to you know, feel good about herself because she's so beautiful.
I love Crystal completely agree. She's been so vulnerable about
it and open about it on like podcasts and interviews,
and I think this I hope this is another piece

(01:05:30):
of that. Um. I just hope we get uh some
air time with her being like, you know, the Crystal
that like I fell in love with. But I don't
want to dictate or predicate the version of herself she
should be on TV. I just hope that we don't
lose some of that. What are your Crystal thoughts, Maren?
I really liked her and I feel like in that

(01:05:50):
season where she's introduced and she's talking to Sutton and
you kind of like I think of Sutton as the
villain when she's like, oh are you that role like that?
I don't see colored girl, and she like clocks her
and she gets so defensive. No, I'm not talking about this,
I'm not talking about this. I was like, yeah, Crystals

(01:06:11):
Heller because like so many white women, they needed to
hear that that year of all years especially, so I
was just like hell yes, and Heiress to Lion King like,
I don't know what could come. Um, So I'm hoping that,
like with editing, they're just trying to make the trailer
look really MOPy, but I think that it's actually going
to be a lot lighter when it actually comes out.

(01:06:33):
So that was my thoughts. There was also that scene
where like Erica with just Rna and Crystal, where they're
clearly at someone's home and they're dressed to the nines
and Crystal says to Erica, is it that bad? And
Enda goes, yes, there's there's no house. She nails her line,

(01:06:55):
She really does her line. So Angry Culture Finale Um
Last Culturally, Last episode of Last Culture says every whenever
it happens, it's not us. You're gonna win a Peabody finally,

(01:07:17):
um okay, Marion Morris, are you ready for Honey? Yeah?
I think so, this iconic moment in history. Okay, this
is Marion Morris's I don't think so honey, or time
starts now, Okay, I don't think so honey. Music trends
on TikTok, and I don't care if I come across
as a jaded, neo luddite boomer with this perspective, but

(01:07:39):
as someone that likes TikTok and we'll continue to use
it after this read. I cannot deal with the laziness
of music label old guys thinking in the last two years,
I'm not having to put any money into creativity, into
music videos, into a ward show, into touring. They think
the only way they can make money is off of

(01:08:02):
a TikTok trend through music and a twelve year old
making up a dance with only their upper body and
it has no swag. Cannot imagine my own songs popping
to that. And I love TikTok, but it is such
a lazy way of old guys in suits to make
creatives feel like they're only contest creators and I just

(01:08:24):
can't And I think that like label guys to TikTok
music trends is like Gretchen Wieners to fetch, Like it's
not going to happen. Wow, thank you so much for
saying this. And this is the crazy, this is the
most This is the craziest example I can think of
is Matt did you clock the Demi? Lavada released a
Cool for the Summer sped up version because the song

(01:08:47):
has been trunning on TikTok. People are doing their little dances. Great,
we love it. But then they released a sped up
version of Cool for the Summer, a song that is
like at this point six years old, like a sped
up version just like get streaming dollars, chasing it down,
chasing it down. But it's like this is so fucking transparent,
Like it's just for the techtok dance of it. All

(01:09:09):
that all people are doing on the TikTok app is
just speeding speeding up the sound like double speed or
pitching it up. It's like, which is great, like that
helps with the dance, but it's like, this is not
a way for like music suits to like make money.
It's so stupid. Our engineer, Doug who's worked in the
music bizin for for years as amen okay. COT engineer

(01:09:30):
Doug says, Amen, we love you dog. I mean, there's there's,
there's a time and a place, but for it to
only be the way of the future, it's just so soulless.
And I just feel like it just makes everyone on
this conveyor belt of like musical fast food, and it
just kills creativity. And for those who have done well

(01:09:50):
with it, I commend you, but it honestly makes me
hate the song sometimes where I only hear four seconds
of it and then I'll see that it's like nominated
for a grea at me and I'll be like, wait,
this is the part I heard on TikTok and this
is the whole song. It makes me go out of
my way to not listen to it. Honestly, it's unnatural.
It's not like the way that we consume it's and

(01:10:11):
even if it's like supposedly the new way we consume
media now, like like in this at this length, it's
like it's not how it should be necessarily, I don't know.
And and also you know, we we talked to artists
like we had Betty Huan and I talked to um
someone who's a recording artist. I won't name him, but
like he was saying that his label was like you

(01:10:32):
have to have a TikTok hit and a huge TikTok presence,
or like we won't push the music we Slian Michaels
has talked about that. Jillian Michaels, who has written like
one of the like some of the biggest pop songs
of the last decade, has said her own label, like
she put this on Twitter a few months ago where
she was like, if it doesn't go viral immediately on TikTok,

(01:10:54):
they just don't promote it, and it just sucks because
it's like not everyone is treated that way, but it's
becoming like such a like store business where that's there's
no creative like everything is just sort of put on
the same chopping block, like this artist. And you even
see like Florence in the Machine unwillingly but begrudgingly doing

(01:11:18):
TikTok's because she'll say, my label is making me do this,
and all she does is seing like acapella and her
fans love it so like it's totally in its own way,
poking fun at it and it's pure, but it's still
like her being Florence and but yeah, she's like my
labels making me do this. It's just like I love
I love like the artists that are at least like

(01:11:39):
reclaiming ownership over their own like platform of art. And
it's not just being this very see through marketing tool.
They shouldn't be putting that position in the first place,
where like you are really pushing all of your creative
instincts into like a mold that is like the size
of a fucking like pinhole. You know. It's like, how
are you gonna, like, right, how is that the objective
to like write a song that like we'll fit into

(01:12:02):
like a four second little dance? Anyway, when, um, when
are your next shows in l A and New York?
Because we want to come see you. So I'm doing
the Hollywood Bowl. I've never done the Bowl? What the hell?
Um wait, I'm looking it up. It's that you don't know, Actually, no,

(01:12:25):
it is. Well, I was trying to actually do two
dates at the Greek because I just se x at
the Greek. She put on an amazing show. Yeah, I'm
so jealous. I actually saw it on TikTok Um. I
saw Casey at the Greek right before the pandemic. I
saw Maggie Rogers. The Greek is insane. Yeah, but I

(01:12:48):
couldn't because of COVID and all the backed up tours
that are getting rescheduled. I couldn't get too consecutive nights.
So I was like, let's just do the Bowl. So
we're doing the Bowl October, end of July. Yes, yeah,
I'm doing that July twenty night. Okay, we're gonna come
to both. I'm gonna go to New York and go
to that, and then Bone's gonna come to a must

(01:13:11):
go on us to be on Saturday Night Live that night,
not end of July. Oh no, and on October. No,
it doesn't matter, Lauren, I gotta go. Um, this was
so fun to get to talk to you and meet
you in person on Zoom et cetera. Blah blah blah.
But your album is so great, I mean, and like,

(01:13:31):
especially at a time when they're pushing like you know,
the TikTok bullshit. Thanks for making like such an capital
a album and you're just the best. Thank you. Well, hey,
um you guys, like whatever you need, Like I want
to meet you at these shows or let's meet up
in the same city. But please come back and say hello,

(01:13:52):
don't have us it's it's I mean, we we admired
respectfully at the Bowery Ballroom. I'll take anything I can get,
if it's just a little wave or anything. We love
you so much, Mare, and truly this is so so special.
Thanks for coming on, Thank you for having me. I'm
always going to check my DM s. Now, there you go,

(01:14:12):
I got it. You gotta be checking the d ms.
And that's actually for everyone out there. You have to
check the dm We end every episode with a song
and by when you know the one it's going to be.
And I'm curious to know what keys we both choose. No,
it's not, it's it's one of yours. I feel like
a hot And to hear the rest of that you

(01:14:35):
have to listen to Hero but stream Humble Crest. Bye
bye