“Piccolo & Bassoon” (w/ Betty Gilpin)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look man, oh, I see you. Why oh and look
over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness, let calling.
I mean we offlined about excitement jitters um I have Well,

(00:21):
this is the thing. Do you remember when our guests
came on our podcast over three years ago? It is
wild for me to say, and I think it was
one of the highlights of us even doing this. I
think it's one of the most like superior episodes of
the show. And they went back and listened today and
it really is. It's wonderful. That's also a trip to

(00:45):
listen to our voices. Both you and I found completely different.
That's but that's that's that's that's not the that's not
the headline. But we're just I didn't know what it
is like it's they're lower and it's like, did we
just get older? But I know it's also just a
little bit more years, you know what I mean. It's
getting getting older is different than the years, you know
what I mean. But it's true, our voices have absolutely sunk,

(01:09):
and I feel I have to retroactively apologize to you
about something what happened. But I did listen to this
episode and preparation that episode, in preparation for this one,
and I got to a point where I got over this.
But you know, back in the day, I used to
just talk and talk and talk and talk, and I
feel like sometimes I would just absolutely talk over you.
I think I was so excited this day, but I

(01:30):
kept saying to myself, Matt, I know you're excited, but stop.
It's not one of my memories of the day. It
really isn't. I remember our guest coming just touching us.
She got she got tactile. We all got tactile that day.
We all got tat that day. And I mean and
the fact that like it was no bullshit because she

(01:51):
was laying out this like organizing principle in her life,
which is maggots and magic, which is that there's this
thunderbelly in life and in the people you And then
you read the book. There's a book. You read the
book and you're like, oh wait, she's she's like she's
like committing it to the written word, and it's Matt,
I'm gonna say something. God, I think this is maybe

(02:14):
it's recency bias. I don't know. I told our guests
the second I finished it, I clapped to no one
in a dressing room by myself. I clapped, and I
feel like it's the most life affirming, uplifting memoir I've
read maybe ever. It's it's it's so beautiful. It's understandable
readers when we say this is cannon, this is something

(02:38):
you have to go read. Every time a chapter ended,
I had to close the book and cry like three
single tears to myself, which is different than crying. Three
single tears is different than crying. It's actually a real
culture number three single tiers different than crying. And I'm
telling you, like, I'm working right now and I'll just

(02:59):
be sitting like like and like just smiling and laughing
out loud at the book to myself. And people are like,
what is what are you reading? And I'm like I
showed them the cover and I'm like They're like, give
me that after you're gone, and I'm like yes, And
now it's promised to two gays, which is fine for
me because I will go out and purchase the book.
All the women in my brain by our guest the

(03:20):
second I can, which you also must, it is capturing
what it's like to be alive period. I mean period.
This is the other imperative. The Conscian k n t
inheritive conscient conscient, He's it's this is me being annoying philosopher,
philosophy buff and in high school rock. This is what

(03:46):
you have to do. You have to download the audio
book as well, because just here period, Because to hear
it being read is crazy. That because what I did, Man,
I would read a chapter, I'd be like, damn, and
then I was like, I gotta hear how Betty's reading it. Double.
I got to hear the line reading, I got to

(04:08):
hear the chapter reading Martino, and then very much, so
very much show it was worth it, worthwhile. Here's here's
something to say when the person is a performer, read
the audio book, and it's ruleal culture number thirty when
persons performer book. I don't want to talk to anyone
who's simply just read Jennifer Lewis's memoirs. You must experience

(04:31):
and sit in them. This is no different. Though I
haven't yet read the audio book. I mean listen to
the audiobook. But as we prove every episode of this thing,
you can read things that you listen to. So I
haven't yet grabbed the auto book. I made no mistake,
but wow, I am so excited she's here. Um, so
much has happened. Spoke to her and let's just let's

(04:56):
do it. Okay, every one welcome zoom energy. Who I
keep forgetting that I'm alone in my bedroom. I'm blushing
as if we're all together. I'm trying that I got
tactile the last time. We're not sorry because apparently it

(05:19):
went well. But I believe that there were I remember
where we were sitting in there in that little room
where we were recorded that podcast, and I believe there
was even moments of hand holding. I'm just saying like,
and I have to say, just like that was such
a that made such an impact on us that day,
like that conversation that we had, and then like with

(05:39):
this book, it's just such a joy to be in
your world. Like it's really really just very singular and
so smart and so funny, but so thoughtful. And I
just want to comment you right off the bat by
saying something that really struck me is the care and
the love with which you write all the characters in
this even the ones that you clearly didn't have a

(06:02):
great interaction with or like you drag a little bit,
you illustrate so beautiful hair. Literally but like you, you
illustrate every person that has impacted you so beautifully. And
I just wanted to tell you that so much. That
means so much, That means so much to me. Yeah,

(06:23):
it was. We did a book event in New York,
um and one here in l A. And there were
I did the Drew Barrymore show that day, and my
sweet publicist was like, I just need you to know
that the event tonight for your reading. I was like,

(06:44):
I read an essay and then do a Q and
A afterwards. She was like, the event tonight, the seating
capacity is und forty people and we absolutely do have
thirty two tickets. Like, but then a few more people
than that came, not a fort but uh. And it
felt like this moment um. It was like the end

(07:05):
of It's a Wonderful Life where everyone comes into his
house to get Like I was sitting at this table
and every time I looked up from the book, it
was somebody else from the book that I haven't seen
in twenty years. And like Katie Cruity from a high
school you know, who drove in from long Like it
was just this this is your life moment. It was

(07:26):
really it was kind of spectacular. Yeah, but yeah, I
hope no one gets mad. People who would get mad,
I don't think we would read the book. I think
you mentioned that at one point, You're like, I'm gonna
like drag with care of this person. They won't read this. Yeah.
I feel like that's the memoir rule if you're writing. Yeah,

(07:47):
and I changed all the names and tried to be
super I think I was really um. I wanted people
to be able to plug themselves into the book, even
if they didn't know or care who I was, or
honestly nowhere care about the entertainment industry at all. So
I felt nervous about using specifics because I also didn't

(08:08):
want to be I don't know. It's the weird uh
push and pull of my personality of being like which
I tried to talk about the book too, of like,
oh gosh, who am I to saying? But it's like,
I am an actress who has written a book about herself,
not a cowering introvert who's like, you know, fixing glaciers
melting like I, I absolutely am a narcissist, So my

(08:33):
therapist I shouldn't even use that word as a joke
anymore because it's actually a very clinical thing. Wait, who
said that? My therapist? Your therapist. Let's let this be
a continuing arc on the on the show, which is
me being obsessed with my own therapy. I did find
I had to I have let one go. So that's
a that's a positive step. Congratulations, I let one go. Um.

(08:56):
When I used to go to her on the Upper
east Side, the older ladies, tiny little studio, no windows open,
and uh she was it was like the fourth session,
she was like, I'm gonna stop you. Are you allergic
to smoke? I was like, am I allergic? No? She's like, okay,
keep going, Like I kept cradling on. She goes to
her desk and lights a cigarette in the room with

(09:18):
the windows and smokes the whole thing like it was
nineteen fifty. It was pretty amazing. But that's like I
can't come back. Wow. Yeah, I refused to return to
nicotine office while I while I try to find my soul. Yeah, totally.
It's probably the person before I was like, I'm allergic

(09:39):
to smoke, like searching for some excuse. Also, I'm very
curious about smoke allergy, like allergic to smoke. I think
probably smoked. I don't like we're all irritated by it. Yeah. Care,
She's like, just smoke, love it, love her. Yeah. Okay,

(10:02):
how are you feeling in your post summer sort of
like twilight into fall? Because I feel like you've had
a very intense six months no or like plus I'm
sure like a year or eighteen months, Like I could,
I could go on, I could increase the range. I
feel like it's gonna want. I feel like I haven't

(10:23):
really done a good job of checking in with that. No,
I know you guys do have the last three years span.
It's crazy. I mean I was going to re listen
to our episode uh for this too, and then I've
got too nervous too, and so but now I feel
like I should have because I'll have no new thoughts
to share. But I do feel like when I came
on last time, I was at this point of UM

(10:46):
being out of town a lot and hashtag missing my friends,
and so I was obsessed with this podcast, just listening
to two best friends giggle with each other. And I
do feel like I'm there again in a different way
of like, you know, I had a baby during UM.
The pandemic got pregnant March, and uh had my daughter

(11:09):
Mary in November. And then like so obviously as we
all were, I was removed from my friends and then
hyper so because of you know, she was an infant
and I was super freaked out. And then my only
really reintroduction to being in groups of wonderful people were
sets like going back to work. Um, which is great,

(11:32):
but it's this weird like Orwellian fake society where you
know you're it's it feels not real and not totally
you know, it's just like a little corporate bubble of
where COVID doesn't exist. Um, so I haven't been around.
I've just like now I'm getting back into like holding

(11:54):
the faces of my best friends and seeing them again
up close. But I've like really become re obsessed with
your podcast for that, you guys are like my my
friendship du lah of like simulating friendship quarantined await from people,
which I'm sure all the readers felt that way during
the pandemic. For sure, we feel we feel a lot

(12:16):
closer to them, Like I don't know that was really
some people say like during during that pandemic, like that
we filled a lot of space and like a quiet
for them, but also that was such a thing for
us too. It was like just still connected to doing
something and each other. Like I mean, I can't believe
a whole pandemic. I just a whole pandemic has gone

(12:37):
on since we've last seen you. And it's funny that
we've very much had the energy last time we were
like this is the beginning that. But like another thing
that struck me, Like as you were talking about about
the book, and one of my favorite things that you
describe is that sort of transience of like working with

(12:58):
people and allowing them in and having that experience, that
tribal thing of like we're working on a thing together,
like and you get close and like actors are very
open people, and like you connect with people, and then
all of a sudden that job ends and you go away,
and like I really struck by, um, your story of
connecting with the older actress you did the play with

(13:19):
and then ending and you're being like wow, outside of this,
like would we ever even look at each other? And
then you move on with your life. But so because
it's not the same as your real people, because they
contractually go right right, Yeah, Yeah, that's an essay where
I talk about the sort of um I call it
the thing, which is like when you work with someone,

(13:42):
the different kinds of connections that you can have that
in a creative environment you're sort of allowed to just
bypass these normal, uh small talk, we're getting to know
you steps, like you just skip too deeply knowing each other.
And it's a little dangerous too in skipping something. Some

(14:02):
of those steps are there in place for a reason
of like protecting yourself or not getting into a connection
where you're on different pages or there's a weird power
dynamic or um. And I try to talk about the
different types of one. But yes, there was one with
an older lady that I did a play with where
just because we shared a dressing room and the job
sort of told us we did display for five months together,

(14:25):
and the job kind of told us where and how
to be close and that we didn't really need to
do any of the legwork to water the relationship or whatever.
We just we're able to sort of see. But we
were kind of like um, weird demented twins in our brains,
and it was and then when it was over, we

(14:45):
had a yes, say goodbye, because but I think I
am bad at that. I really am. I am. I
do wonder if I kind of abuse the business sometimes
of like getting to hyper connect and then ghost. I'm
trying to get better at it. But it's yeah, but

(15:06):
you also like have this lasting example in your life
of that with Cosmo. It's like, that's how you guys met. Yeah,
I didn't know. I had no idea that's how you
need that on that project and then he just kind
of stuck around even though you guys sort of like
it seems like maybe in the back of your minds
were trying to really get rid of each other totally. Yes, really, yeah,

(15:31):
You're like, no, I'm gonna be my own person, but
I'm in love. I'm gonna have experiences, but I'm in love. Yes, yeah,
well I think we all deal with that. Like, Okay,
So there's only so much time in my life and
in the day and in you know, which do I
spend it becoming the most actualized version of my own independent,
liberated self, or work towards the career that I want,

(15:54):
or find a partner and put down roots. Like how
do I do these all three things in one lifetime?
And I think finding Cosmos so early I was like, well,
if this is the person, this is too early. Like
I agree. It's like, why don't want you to say
you agree? Yeah? Yeah, but yeah. We played a brother

(16:17):
and sister. He used to be an actor. We played
brother and sister in a movie. And there's a scene
where there is a scene where he uh tickles me.
And at the Syracuse Film Festival, you could feel the
audience be like, I think, yeah, I don't like this
movie anymore. Yeah, forget it. Well, whatever is that is?

(16:42):
That is? That? Is that streaming playing anywhere? No? No,
I really want to see the signal. I tried to
look it up. I was like, OK, what's first IMDb credit?
I was so sleuthy with this book and I made that.
I don't know that it got me anywhere, but I
did really get horned up when you describe the moment

(17:05):
you laid eyes on him, which was that you were
like someone who was so screaming my type, and then
the thought in your mind was oh no, I have
to I have to have sex with this, And I
was like, oh god. The feeling is a scary. It's
a scary feeling, especially when you're working with someone You're like, oh, shoot, totally. Yes,

(17:26):
conclusion just was it just a sexy feeling or was
it like a star shower was happening behind him, Like
can you tell it that just sex, that's just sex? Yes, totally,
And it was that for a while, and then all
of a sudden, I sort of and I think I
had because in talking about these connections that you make
with people, you really it's hard to separate, um how

(17:50):
you're in love with their idea of you, and you know,
you realize like, I'm did I ask them a question?
And I am I actually curious about this person. I'm
I just so addicted to this feeling of they think
I'm the music video version of myself. So I think
it started there for me. I was like, oh, he
thinks I'm the person that I wish I was. And

(18:12):
then and we were having a really good time, and
then I sort of got tricked into seeing who he
actually was, which I'm in love with this person. Falling
in love disabled your own narcissism of being addicted to
the feeling of infatuation. Yeah, you tell a really like

(18:33):
I think that In the book, there's a moment that
sort of pinpoints when it went from oh, this is
fun to Oh this might be real, and I just
want to say, like how vividly New York the thing
of the hot pipe was. There's a story, so I
won't spoil anything, but there's something that happens between Betty
and Cosmo early on in the relationship that involves an

(18:54):
exposed hot pipe in the bathroom, and that took me
back to living in New York, like like in those
types of apartments, the amount of exposed hot boiling hot
types is that legal? Where where are our government elected
officials on this? We have to get yeah, come on, yeah,

(19:17):
there was there was there was a line that you, um, well,
first of all, the okay, Betty, you have like such
a comedians knack for joke structure, like the way right
is so it is so considered in that way where
you always end on the funny part you want like
you understand that structure so well, and um, but the

(19:38):
perfect examples when you mentioned you and Cosmo, I think
attempting an open relationship, like there's a raft break, there's
a line break, and use that this this is the
equivalent of a blinkot and Mary Todd trying to figure
out sick. It's like I'm butchering in between the language.

(19:58):
But yeah, that's what straight people do in an open relationship,
is Yeah, I couldn't believe it that like a heterosexual
open relationship like that had that had to drive you nuts.
I sometimes like, nowadays, remember how incredible it was, and
cause it was like you were visible. I I mean, yes, yeah,

(20:24):
New York was just too small and too you know
heterosexual just put us down like we're we're trying to
keep up with the cool kids and we should just
be pushed out to see um. Yeah, but we tried.
We tried it for a couple of years, which I'm
glad we did. We I was I was very young
when we yes, yeah, yeah, yes, And every time I'm like, yeah,

(20:47):
we've been together this long, I always want to be
like ending ding ding. If there's anyone in this room
who's concerned about that math for our history. We had
an open relationship for almost four years. Don't worry. We'd
fucking other people up and down in our twenties. Don't
worry about us. But that struck me when you said
that New York is too small, because I was like, oh,

(21:10):
I guess that's I guess that's that's true. For like,
that's true for you, Betty Gilpin, where you're like, I'm
not going to fuck any of these like bankers or whatever.
I don't I don't know what your standards were at
the time, but I'm sure like you were dealing in
a small circle. With a small circle, we were like,
I'm not gonna like, I'm not interested in anyone who's

(21:30):
not like who doesn't get me on a certain level.
Does that make sense? Yeah, I guess so, or like
it just wasn't. It's like maybe that the rules were
just confusing to all the other straight men and women
in New York, like everyone else had been on board.
It's like finding the people who are like, yeah, that's cool.

(21:52):
Um that that felt And also every time it just
felt like every I mean I write in the book
about both of us being totally caught by the other
person's friends and just being like, OK, don't tell that's
the rules of it all. Or would always trip me

(22:14):
up because I like we were talking about this last night.
A bunch of people I was with were like, well,
I have a boyfriend that has to know everything before
it happens, and I was like, see, that would drive
me absolutely insane, as both people in the party. I
can understand like two things completely don't ask, don't tell,
and afterwards you have to say something happened. But what

(22:37):
people are comfortable with our say they're comfortable with is
so interesting because I'm like, you both feel this way,
or who's making concessions here and dying someone right right
right totally, And I think the way that I also
try to think about like career stuff and um, you know,
in the book, I try to write about how you

(22:58):
can confuse like the your own inner light coming out
into a room with societal success, like actualization with societal success.
It can be very easy to confuse those two things
of like am I achieving my childhood dream? Or is
the internet clapping? Are two different things? Um, and I
think like just along lines of fucking who you want

(23:24):
or whatever, it's like we're all just trying to have
a clear conscience when we're wrinkly on the porch someday,
like I gave myself all the opportunities, like I tried,
or I I didn't stand in my own way. I
think that's that's what I was most afraid of. With
all three of those categories, actualization, career, and romance. I

(23:44):
just just like, oh, I'm I can't be it can't
be my fault that I didn't try. Yeah. Yeah, well
there's there's there's there's like a beautifully short as say
chapter what would you call them? Just the terminology of
it in installment, okay, stories, it's you taking cosmos to

(24:12):
meet your your family and Thanksgiving love. Yeah, and it
ends with I mean like it's it's this amazing story.
He hits it off with everybody. He like mixed shoes
out of like under sink garbage. It's crazy. I'm spoiling it.
I'm spoiling it. No, it's not. It's not the Da
Vinci code. The plot points aren't at work. I don't.

(24:34):
I disagree. Okay, So I feel like we might have
even for for the reader, for the listener. Put the
car before the horse, Betty. Do you want to first
of all, do you want to just like talk about
what the book is like broad strokes like sure, Yeah,

(24:55):
I I wrote a book. It's kind of part um
personal essays about my life and then part I guess
attempting to be comedic social commentary about being a woman
and being in the entertainment industry. And I think I

(25:17):
sort of realized that in a way I had kind
of you know, I've always felt like my brain was
a room full of women, or that I was sort
of cycled selves depending on who was in front of me,
like the sidekick or the girlfriend or that this, And
I think that that's a very common feeling. And I
realized that I had sort of literally com modified that

(25:39):
feeling in being an actor and sort of literalized this
allegory in my life. And uh, I tried to write
about all that and sort of um making an alpha
living out of all the beta characters I was playing
in other people's lives And was that impact towering or

(26:00):
was that not? Like, um, so yeah, that's and then
also I write about my dog, which was so beautiful.
I mean, people, there's dog there's dog content in this
which will take you for a trip to Saturn and
back emotionally. And thank god you really got it with

(26:22):
the dog stuff. Okay, thank you. Sorry, sorry to take
a little like detour on that, but I love it.
I I feel like I I identified with that. I
feel very seen by it with me. The I think
of them less as brain women or brain people as
like sometimes in my mind I will see myself in

(26:43):
an avatar that I'm not like oftentimes it'll be I'll
just watched a movie and I clearly will have connected
with a character because I see myself in life as
that character. But I think that's what it is for
me for some reason, Like lately, i've really in my
in my vision of myself, I have a very long
pone detail. I don't know what that means, but like

(27:03):
I don't know what that means, but I actually I've
heard a lot um but that I think speaks to
like your actual like upbringing being watching your parents do
characters maybe and also like you know, being in environments
you spoke on the last episode that you were on
about like being raised in theater. I think I understand

(27:24):
that as like it's it's a journey to find your
one person, but it's fun and it's like functional as
you're growing up to see yourself as many different like
characters that can come in and like you know, spin
the plate for you when you actually don't know you
know what I mean totally yes, And it's so funny
that you say the long ponytail because I was thinking

(27:45):
when you were talking in the intro about apologizing about
talking over like I do. When I listened to your podcast,
I really I think a lot about them. Did you
guys listen to Peter and the Wolf when you were little?
Like the the it's is it like it's like a
narration and yes, um, it's just the two instruments that

(28:07):
you guys are. It's it's like fun when you talk
over each I think about whenever you do a rule
of culture and it's never in Innison. It gives me
so much joy because it's two different It's like piccolo
and bassoon or whatever, and the long the long pony tail.
I always like I picture you guys sometimes as these

(28:29):
characters of like if it's it's it's not in Ellis Island,
but it's like a city hall type place or a
complaints where like you you have to stand you're like, um,
you know, women on the brink standing in line for something,
and Matt is in like an Aaron Brockovich type outfit
and has cutting the line and platform shoes, shaking his

(28:50):
form and you know, has his finger in the face
of the teller and you as the reader kind of
next you listening, and it's incredible and it's a monologue
and it's amazing piccolo work. And then you go to
leave and you look down at the door and you've
you've just been stabbed, and you look up and it's
bowen wrapped in silks for like bassoon energy of like

(29:16):
you know once and when comes in the Yeah, it's
it's just the most true check out And thank you
for that. Yeah, it's why I always always picture this
is by lovingly illustrating the characters period period, this is
this is your knack for metaphor, like should the end

(29:39):
degree for us? Like you describing us in these ways
like that? Well, definitely my editor helped me pull the
metaphor back a little bit. She was like, some of
this doesn't make sense. It's like great, great, great, Gregor
tell me where like I talked, there's a part where
I talk about um when the connections essay about like

(30:03):
having these connections with older men were my senior or
and like, uh, I mean obviously my senior, but who
I admired and I thought it was just this platonic
sort of all that exists is the art mind melding,
and actually found out they were just trying to sleep
with me, as they were many other people and the metaphor.
I was like, it used to be like oh he

(30:27):
it wasn't just our text thread. He had many going
at the same time, as if we were all so complicated,
like sickly turtles in one cage and he dropped in
one life saving penestillan turtle vitamin and he only needed
one of us to survive. My editor was like, you
need to cut this. I like that, and you're saying

(30:54):
the acknowledgements like thank you for reminding me of this
sentence does have to make sense because like you know,
yeah didn't Yeah, I didn't have a lot of periods,
and they put them in. It was a sprinkling of punctuation. Okay,
I'm I'm going all over the place with this fucking
book because, like every it just hit me at these

(31:17):
at such regular intervals. Okay, but this is what I'm
talking about with Thanksgiving. One, Um, you bring Cosmo home,
it's going great. And then I'm gonna paraphrase and I'm
gonna butcher it, so please correct me. But your dad
just gets everyone to get close their eyes and imagine
something that they have that they don't deserve. Yeah, and

(31:38):
then you open your eyes and you see Cosmo looking
at you back at you. I was like, holy shit,
you can't write this stuff. You can't fictionalize this stuff.
That is right, That is crazy so amazing. Yeah, it
was pretty incredible. I mean, you know, I do think uh,

(32:01):
like what we're I don't know if you guys feel
this way. It's it is this amazing gift to be
able to do what we do for a living. It
is confusing to like have these uh you know, jumping
from kind of group to group or society to society,
of like feeling like it's like a high or being

(32:23):
a drug addict and building a life where it doesn't
always feel like a high, but you're taking care of
yourself and making deep connections with people that last I
don't know, I learned so much, um really falling in
love with uh him, I don't know, and it was terrifying,

(32:46):
continues to be terrifying. It's still completely terrifying having Oh
my god, I mean because then all of a sudden,
it's like, wow, a real thing that's outside of myself,
you know what I mean, Like I think that something
some One of the things I love about this book
is there is a tension between um, you know, I'm

(33:07):
really growing to believe in myself and growing to be
the type of person who can say I deserve this,
I want this, I'm asking for this, I'm going for this.
But also you know that tug of war that is,
but there's the you, there's the other you that needs
to be taken care of and like that wants to
connect with someone and put roots down, but it's just like,

(33:30):
but like, I only have one chance for this, and
or it feels like that, and there's that tension between
that person they tell you you want to be and
almost working up to that, and then you know those
moments where you look over at someone at a dinner
table and you know, in this moment you share that
and like a soul connection that feels like almost not
tenable when you want to work, work, work, work, work,

(33:51):
because you've been given the opportunity, you know, yeah, yes totally.
And I think do you guys feel this way that
you know, being in this phase that we're in where uh,
in your career you can okay, here comes a metaphor.

(34:13):
I think about the part in Aladdin where he has
to go in down into the cave of Wonder or
whatever and not touch anything but the lamp. It's like
and I think when um, I was doing the theater
for ten years to an audience of no one, you
know or whatever, there was a lot of feeling invisible

(34:36):
and feeling like, funk, this sucks. And now there's so
much more opportunity to like reader and holding my iPhone,
like participate in the parade of your like in the
validation or the there's just more opportunity to like sit
and have a little more candy or like have your
brain be a little more eaten by the reception of
your existence in the world. And I I just I'm

(35:00):
so nervous about that and superstitious of like this part
is gonna end, and the things that are going to
last are the things like looking up and seeing Cosmo
looking back at me. Those things you know, it's possible
to like fuck up. I don't know, Like it's all
out of the lamp. I'm like, we just gotta like

(35:21):
totally celebrate ourselves and root for ourselves. But you gotta
not stay too long at the at your own parade,
because your brain is going to be eaten. Like like
when I do a talk show, I'm like, you can
watch it once one time like or I know you
were talking about the Emmy's bone and feeling kind of

(35:44):
gross post it just it's it's also not I don't know,
I'm all over the place with topics like a it's
not a healthy it's it's super strange. Yeah, yeah, And
you know what to what I try to remind myself
is that you are the only person watching it this closely,
you know what I mean? Like that whenever, like whenever

(36:06):
I feel like there was a moment in something that
I didn't get right or like especially like now that
And I will say I did identify with this book
probably a lot more than I would have a few
years ago. And also in re listening to our episode
a few years ago, I actually like it was like
listening to it with new ears because I've been through
a little bit more. I think Bowen has as well.
I think our just careers progressed a little bit more

(36:28):
so now I understand when you say things like when
you were talking about like the publicity of it all
and the taking of pictures and the showing up to
events and that part of it. You do like when
you get it, it's it's like demystifying in a way.
That could be demoralizing, but that is also kind of
freeing because it's just it does make you realize, like,

(36:48):
you know, me, like slaying every second of this talk
show appearance, or like looking good in this picture or
being invited to this event is actually silly, you know
what I mean. It's still think about. It could be fun.
I have fun doing all of it, but when you
see the smoke and mirrors, they are so that Yeah,

(37:09):
that's what I was getting from. Yeah, And not only
are there things silly, but they're deceptive. And I'm gonna
extend the thing of what Betty you talk about with
like the thing and like like everything being set up
so that like the work is done for you to
achieve that connection. Um like like I'll just say like

(37:33):
for stuff that I've done, and like you know, there's
there there are only so many products that I've done
so far, so people can like use deductive reasoning. But
it's like I had like a showman's and I was
like I really bought it. For a second. We were
making each other playlists, we were really like talking as
if we were like mat and I was like, wait
a minute, I have to back it up. But I'm saying,

(37:54):
like all all of these other little things as part
of like if you get lucky enough to work somewhat
consistently at a certain exposure or like brightness, like these
things like the work gets done for you in a
way like like someone picks out your your dress or
your suit. Someone picks out like the things like the

(38:16):
talk shows you go to things, things are like done
for you in such a way. Maybe this is what
is this where you're getting? Is this what you're talking about?
It's like this is gonna end, like the work will
not always be done for me, and so therefore I
have to do my own legwork in terms of like
making sure my partner is okay, my child is okay. Yeah, yeah,

(38:36):
And it's it's just easy to like things that they
feel like they are registering as a ten in the
same way. Are are different, Like you know, maybe the
Showmance wasn't you know, lasting, but I do think, like,
I mean, how did you guys meet? You know, it's
this is very lasting? You know it's there. It's it's

(38:57):
almost like this I feel it about having a daughter,
where I uh, it's like this contract with the devil
I signed of like you've been living on a and
I feel being an actor too. It's like even living
on a scale of you thought you were living one
to ten, you're you've been living four to six. You're

(39:18):
about to feel what tens and ones are. And I
like signed, I was like, okay, I want the tens
and the ones are in unbelievable and it, you know,
it makes me feel that way about the world. To
having her, I'm like simultaneously like doom, scrolling about how

(39:41):
much time we have left on earth literally and being like,
I mean, is there God? I didn't think there was,
Like maybe God exist, Like I have so much hope
and so much fear at the same time, And I
think that way, you know, being an actor too, it's like,
you know, I have a friend who works a cubicle
job and he's like, I hate lunch in my car

(40:02):
because I hate my coworkers. It's fine, like you're not
sobbing with the people that you You're not holding your
hands and talking about your childhoods and making playlists like
you know, I'm not that you have to be an
actor to have deep connections with people, but I think
it is, like it's wild how fast it happens. Yes, yeah,
but this deal that you make, like I'm gonna I'm

(40:23):
gonna like play on the edge of um the safety
of my ego and health and whatever in making all
these connections along the way and like a little parade
for myself. But I'm it's like a risk every time.
I know. What's what's so funny is like I feel
it happening even now I'm working a job right now,

(40:43):
and I just so happened have fallen in love with
a couple of people like up here, like I genuinely
love and adore them. It's literally just a thing of
like I don't know, I feel like now that I've
done a few projects where like I too have gotten
really emotionally wrapped up in a few people, like I
do try to set a boundary now because you know

(41:04):
that like it's true that you'll be talking about like oh,
when did you lose your virginity? When was your first kiss?
When was your this? When was your that? Like in
a way that like yeah, is unique not knowing like
what their apartment looks like, where they're from, or what's
the middle name. Like there's just this bypass that yes, yeah, yeah,

(41:25):
it's the best and it's sucking. Its dangerous. Yeah, I
mean it'll break your heart. It has you know, like it.
I mean like it's and then it's weird like too,
because it's like you do something with someone and in
the case of if it's on a platform where they're
actually gonna put work into people seeing it, you then
get back together with them to promote it, and you're

(41:45):
this weird other version of yourself that's not in a
makeup trailer talking ship with HMU. It's someone who's in
like head to toe Todd Snyder and like has someone
named Jessica doing their makeup, and like then you're talking
to them getting ready to do this thing, and it's
like it's like you worked together as kids in a treehouse, Like,

(42:05):
oh my god. And then if on this part I
fall and you hit is it stupid? If we do
one where you hit me in the face with it,
and like see like, oh my god, you were the
same kind of kid I was. And then when you
see each other for press or whatever, you're no longer
sit in the treehouse. You're like sold out adult and
seeing them like that and you like that it's like, oh,
now we're on a panel in silks and this. I

(42:26):
don't want you to see me like this or me
It's it's like it's like they knew the five thirty
am makeup trailer you and now they're seeing the seven
pm cocktail party for the thing you right, like, well,
but what about that thing were you know? Yeah? Yeah,

(42:49):
and you're not like allies in the same thing anymore.
It's like back out to the wolves, Yeah, very much,
the wolves. It's heartbreaking to even talk about to even
hear you guys describe a bit, well, you get to
I don't know that is I guess the cool things
like you genuinely. I always do this thing where I
say genuinely instead of generally, and I'm working on it,

(43:09):
but genuinely and generally go back each and every year
to like which is I think so cool and honestly, Betty.
Another thing I'm thinking of is like the fact that
there was a season four of Glow that was going
to happen in the community of actors that I know
you love so much, and then all of a sudden
they just say, never mind stop and also we're not

(43:30):
going back like that didn't get to have like a
an ending, you know, like yeah, yeah, and there are
two episodes that exists, like we shot two Yeah, so crazy, No,
I know it was. It was painful, so strange. I
watched a few episodes of it again today just because
I in listening to the episode, I remembered how much

(43:52):
I loved it. And I did watch season two episode before,
which is My Girl's Showcase, and I just loved it.
What a great show. What a shame we didn't get
to see more. What a shame. Oh, you want to
know what you've seen? I went back and watched Matt
was when Alison Body's character comes back from like just
the rapey hotel room with the work exactly, and then

(44:15):
Debbie and then and then Betty's character is like there's
there's a line reading and this is what this is,
and and hearing and seeing Betty describe herself as making
too many faces and like that being like a bad thing,
and like you there's a line reading where um, Alison goes,
so I went to his head? So like she was like,
so yeah, he made a pass at me. And then

(44:36):
Betty does a line reading of it's three words, three words, Okay,
there's like ten faces where she goes, what did you do? Like,
it's just the worst. What did you do? And then
Alison goes, I left, and then Betty goes, Debbie goes,
you left, Like it's just it's it's these, it's these,

(44:57):
it's these crazy, not crazy, it's just these like amazingly
dense and it's it's in the writing, it's in the
fucking book. It's like it's so dense, Betty, Like everything
you give out is just so such a rich cake.
I mean, you're so good, You're such like a monster.

(45:18):
You're such an enormous well of talent. I want to
tell you, so we haven't seen you since then, I believe, I, like,
you know, reached out and was emphatic, but like I
never watched movies like The Hunt because I really can't

(45:39):
like it. But when I tell you, I gripped the
sides of my sofa and like the parts that I
could handle. I sat on the sofa and watched, and
then I ran to the back. Jared will tell you
I ran to the back of the living room and watched,
like peeking up from the kitchen. But I did watch
the whole thing. But I was literally on my feet
running around screaming. Scared me so much. But you eight

(46:03):
the Hunt. Oh my god, you were so brilliant, and
all the readers like, if you haven't watched The Hunt,
you can you can like get it. I think ye Netflix,
I think so. I think wonderful video free with ads

(46:24):
if you want, if you want that. But your chapter
about the hunt is also incredible. I mean, like I
didn't know all that was going on, but yeah, what
just checking in now, like the hunt of it all,
like being at the center of that, and then also

(46:45):
feeling like it just was something that that then passed
like that had to feel so surreal. It's I'm sure
you guys have had your versions of it. I like, okay,
basically the cliffs Notes version is I was doing, um,
a dog's purpose to in Winnipeg, you know, as we
all know, no needs on your shoulder. Yeah yeah, I

(47:08):
got that so dark, um and being like okay, this
is this is which whatever, No, no disrespect to that
that art forum. But I was like, you know, maybe
I'm now and I was playing the mom of a
she was twenty five years old and I was thirty
two in The Dog Movie, where I was a drunk

(47:30):
mom screaming at eagles. Um, I can't believe and I've
made this hail Mary audition tape for the lead in
this movie, and they were like, oh, you know the
reason that we want an unknown. I love when they
say an unknown to your face, like you're a mentor
or something. Yeah. Um, because everybody dies at the beginning.

(47:52):
We'll just put famous people in those roles and then
you'll be like the secret surprise lead. Um. And I
thought really hard for the job, got the job. Glow
wasn't going to let me out, and so I spent
months writing letters to fight for keeping the job, and
then uh whatever, and then did the job, loved the job,

(48:13):
and then it was misrepresented on the internet. I would say,
like the trailer made it seem like it wasn't a
satire whatever. The dude who was the president at one
time tweeted about it, and I got thousands of death
threats and Fox News got my cell phone number and

(48:36):
my address and it was like this weird thing of
and then Universal pulled the movie and canceled it, and
it was this uh and it was like my favorite
thing I'd ever done, just sort of stupidly creatively. I
was like, but my opus is locked in there, like
and it was sort of learning the lesson of does
it doesn't matter if the if the world class like

(48:58):
if the world sees it happened, like if happened, it happened,
and um, and then you know it came out eventually
and no one remembered it at all. That it's it's
so crazy when the Internet ships itself over you in
a negative way and then just the tides of the
Internet washed away and the person remembering it is you, yeah,

(49:20):
oh yeah, you have a line in the book here
like um, so it's I forget what the first half is.
But it's like, you know, controversy, Like with controversy, the
Internet goes crazy with redemption. It's like redemptions silent, redemptionous quient. Yes,
I was like, damn that that is That is sort
of the that is sort of like the dynamic profile
of that kind of thing where it's like there's no

(49:42):
release or maybe the release is like the the sort
of blowout anger of it all, like the collective like
the outrage and then like there's no there's no balancing
of that ledger like in people's minds, which is kind
of awful, but it I mean it came and watch
their team. I remember I remember what it was. It

(50:06):
was like my first lockdown, sit down watch. I remember,
like I watched Gray Gardens at the original I was like,
let me just get a feel for like what being
in the house is like. Um, and then and then
I remember watching The Hunt and I will never ever, ever, ever,
ever forget ever forget before you shoot Amy Madigan in

(50:27):
the face cigarettes in Arkansas like cost six books, you
fucked up, bitch, and then you kill can Just like
when you're doing a movie like that that is so gory,
like how much of that is practical? And are you
freaking out like like like or did you start of
like because you were in the zone like you you

(50:49):
went away because that is a That was a really
wild movie. Yeah, yeah, it was wild. It was not
a lot of practical blood at all. Okay, the I
mean the fight stuff was weirdly, glow felt more like
at the end of the day, your body, it's like, hey,

(51:09):
what do we do for a living? That was crazy
more just I mean I trained a lot for The Hunt,
but glow was it just felt like you were in
a car accident over and over and over and over again. Um,
and you realize that stunt people like even though they're
they're like Olympians or whatever. But their job is to
hurt themselves. It's not like you find a way to

(51:33):
secretly not hurt yourself. It hurts so much and it
gets harder and harder every passing year. Yeah, because you
just have to keep doing it. Like that's never not
going to be a part of the show glow. Yes, right, yeah,
But I will say there is a scene at the
end of The Hunt which is like it rivals Beyonce
and Ali Larder as the greatest greatest face off in

(51:57):
the history of believe. I mean, Hillary Swank and Betty
Gilpin absolutely kill each other. Yeah, it's so good and
you never have to do that again. For me, Matt,
to watch a movie that you don't enjoy like or
the genre, you get you get scared, and then do

(52:17):
you keep getting scared, like thinking about it, like, well,
I'm just very sensitive to like shocking violence. But the
thing is about The Hunt is it so gets you
ready for that tone literal seconds into the movie, which
I mean, I don't think I've spoiling anything, but like
literally everyone dies and the pretty much the beginning, and
then like Betty has fallen the lead so like just

(52:40):
to see Ema Roberts's head get blown off, like I
was just like, oh my god, and I screamed and
then like honestly it was like it was like then
like the Amy Madigan part did happen. And I was like,
all right, I guess I'm just living in this world
because part You're like, oh, this is this is to
be a joy ride. This is gonna be like not

(53:02):
a joy ride, but it's gonna be fun for us. Yes,
And also I will put myself through pain for an
actress tor divorce, you know what I mean, like an
actress sorter force. I will I will suffer great, great
harrowing um inconvenience like like even like you know, I
was thinking about watching Black Swan again the other day
and I was like, remember that part where when herself

(53:22):
in the face so then she turns into that late foreman.
I'm like, yeah, I can put myself through that for
an actress tort of force again for yeah, what about
did you want for an actress worter force the Tony
Colette movie. Um, I don't do that Hereditary and I
will watch mid midsmar either. Sorry, really I can't do it.
No Ariaster is furious. Probably, I think you could do

(53:43):
mid Somar. I don't like hearing movies and I, yeah,
I think so. I think I could do mid Somar.
I've heard that Midsmar is like beyond the Pail. I
think Hereditary Match should see I think Match is the
hereditary force, sure, because it's like camp again. No, no,
I think it is so like the moment where things

(54:06):
get bad. I've heard about that. It's it's it's it's unforgettable,
like and come off. Yeah, it's not even when the
head come off. It's when discovers the next morning, oh yeah,
yeah yeah, or when there's when she's up in the corner.
I remember being in the in the audience. Writer Doyle

(54:27):
and I saw it together in West Hollywood and someone
went because it's the part where someone's in the corner
of the screen like this and no people from her
saying that noise. We were like, what is the can
do it? Like? I wish I wish it was a

(54:47):
thing that I like was like, yeah, it'll be so fun.
Come on, guys, and like you go in like with
happy girl friends and sit there and order pizza and
like have popcorn and you hide behind the popcorn buck
getting you throw out at each other like so fucking cute,
and line of the movies like and it's scary woo
like I can't I freak out. I'm up screaming and
my my shoulders go to my head and I'm like

(55:08):
in physical pain. I wake up really sore. The next day.
I understand. I'm I got Have you seen Barbarian yet, Betty?
I really want to see it. It's supposed to be amazing,
it's supposed to be great, It's it's it's it's an
Airbnb horror. I mean, I don't like, she doesn't like it,
but I am realizing if there's a female Torta force,

(55:29):
I do. I do, Yes, I believe. I believe Barbarian
is a female tod force. That's all I'll say. Anyway,
That's yeah, that's all. I was going to bring up
the palace because they feel like this is a very
pertinent thing to not to get like exclusively show busy
in this episode. I feel like it's it relates to
like everything else we've talked about, because I feel like

(55:51):
you write about how you conceive of this palace in
showbizuere like they let you in like you know, you know,
if you if you whatever, like make all the right
choices or whatever, if things line up for you in
the right ways, then you like touch the moon right
like that, You're you're sort of breathing verified air. You're

(56:12):
like kind of with all these other people who are incredible. Um,
but I feel like with the way that like the
business works in the way and like the work that
is required of let's just say actors who like have
to simulate all of these relationships and intimacies and all
these things. Like I don't know, I feel like if

(56:37):
you if you're in the palace for too long, then
that's also like destructive. Then that's all that is also
something that like is irreversible and like you're study, you're
you're you're imprisoned in the palace for the rest of
your life. We were talking about this idea of the palace,
which is like for everyone that's that's listening that hasn't
yet read the book, which is this idea of like
the fancy level of Hollywood, which is like the parties

(56:59):
and then nomin nations of it, all the award shows
and like the actual attention that comes with is you
know quote unquote succeeding in the entertainment industry as an actor,
where it looks like they're projecting you back out to
the world as like a shiny thing, you know what
I mean, Like that the concept and this idea that
like does it exist at all? Like the feeling is

(57:21):
like you're almost there. One more thing and you'll be
there right around the corner. One more thing, like one
more financial bracket or one more thing on your IMDb
page and you'll be let in. And then once you
think you're being let in, there like like through that
door and up those stairs. Um. You know, I think
that it's been a particularly strange you know, being an actress.

(57:48):
They are just more visual smoke and mirrors, opportunities to
just look different from how you woke up in the
more in terms of like being on a talk show
or being on a red carpet or something, there's just
more uh or Actors sort of become this um like
being on set. It's like you're a bulletin board for

(58:10):
every other department's work to post on. It's not because
you're a very special Mariantoine at pretty pretty princess who
deserves attention. It's like you just become the bulletin board
for more people's art or work like lighting and makeup
and costume and um, and that can sort of weirdly
bleed into your life outside of set, that you become

(58:34):
this uh I don't know, like um, like a heightened
version of yourself made by a bunch of other people,
which feels like I like my face better when a
professional artist has done it up and and my hair
and my clothes and you know, I've never been It's

(58:57):
like I I almost I feel like some of my
creative window into being an actress because I wasn't good
at that stuff, because I was really like that girl's
best friend carrying her books. And now I'm like, cause
playing as her because I've presented my notes on her
as an actor, and now I thought, I'm like, if

(59:17):
I become her and I stopped, well, I stop the
ability to play her. Yeah, it's like that thing of
just your being too like it's the fear of being
too aware of yourself. Yeah, and and like yeah, there
there does seem to be like I remember in our
last episode with you, like you talked about being in

(59:38):
l A and like some people are just after this
for maybe a different reason than you are, and you're
someone who actually enjoys being these people and showing your
work because of your you know, time observing them and
like what you get to channel through them. But then
all of a sudden they do push you out and
they're like, this part is also important basics grand for
a publicist, you know what I mean, right, And it's
like and then you're like, wait, this doesn't track, but

(01:00:02):
it better because that means more of the stuff that
you liked or so they tell you, you know what
you know, so it becomes this like very weird like
system you participate in. And one of my favorite things
you say in the book, which is something I didn't
realize until we went to their Critics Choice Awards when
Bone was nominated, is the little line that you get

(01:00:23):
into get to the carpet. This is like something I'm observing,
like about the reality of the situation. I thought when
I was a little kid watching award shows, that's like, oh,
they pull up in the limousine and there they've arrived
to the red carpet, and look at them take to
the red carpet and people are taking photos of them.
They look stunning as people shout their name, they moved
to be interviewed by you know, Ryan's secrests or Ryan

(01:00:45):
Seacrest type, and they go in, have a full meal
and then win or gracefully lose the award. They drink
on the rest of their night, and mary they get
a full night sleep and continue working as happy actors. Meanwhile,
it's like you pull up to the red carpet and
then you do. You get on a little line that
actually can be a very big line of people waiting

(01:01:08):
to get their photos taken and their publicists, and it's
just so interesting because it is this thing. It's like, oh,
to two people in front of me, there's Juliet Lewis
also standing staring at nothing, and it's just like miss
and magic Mountain line of like corporate roller coat. You're
like what and but you've been spending two hours getting

(01:01:30):
yourself so hyped up and like this is my night,
like this is the whole world has gathered to see
me in this night, and then you realize how low
on the totem pole you are and how Yeah, it's
it's just corporate prom Yeah. But I think my little
theory on top of this theory is that like the

(01:01:52):
people on the top floor of the palace. The people
who have like been there for a very long time,
or people are people of high esteem and honor, are
not even that thrilled to be there themselves and any
of that. That That that's very that's not a new idea,
and like a lot of this part of the business
is demystified to everybody now, but like um or has
been for a long time. I just feel like, you're you're,

(01:02:17):
everyone is right to disengage from this as soon as possible,
as soon as they understand what's going on, turn their way. Yes, yeah, completely.
You know what's funny is like I remember standing in
that line and thinking that it's that crazy feeling of
like you do you get all excited and then you
get in the line, and I was with Bowen, so
it's like it's like, oh wow, like now we all

(01:02:38):
have to stand here and wait to get on this
carpet and have that thing go on in our head
of like do people even want to see me here?
I'm not going out there. It's insane that I'm going
out to look at the people around me. They're actually
like people that people know I'm not doing this. And
so there was like a hair brained idea that I
would like go out and take a picture with Bowen.
And I turned to Boone and I was like, look,

(01:03:00):
the people don't want to see me. I'm getting the
funk out of here. And he was like, God, God,
I wish I could go with you. And I was like, yeah,
well see you. So I went in and had a
drink and saw sort of like for some reason, I
was in there, and I saw sort of the upper
echelon of the palace, and when I tell you, Will
Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith walked right in front of
me and they glided past me wordlessly. I just breathed,

(01:03:22):
you look incredible to Jada as she goes by, and
she just looked and sort of gave me eye contacted
a slight smile, and I thought, Wow, the peak of
Hollywood glamour, the Palace, the Palace, the King and the Queen.
Weeks later, he would slap him out on television, right right,
So there is a storm underneath. But don't you feel

(01:03:43):
like at those things, seeing people even though it's still
the palace and grows seeing people who you have made
those connections with love it It's like, oh, there is yeah,
it's it's you can find little pockets of treehouse in
the in the palace, but and I do think those
are it is different. Even though they're fleeting and strange,

(01:04:04):
it is still really meaningful. I mean, we mean friends
that night like we we we like is not the
award shows? Yes, yes, yes, it's sometimes funny though who
those people are too? Like you know, we were sitting
at the table and I literally looked across the room
and Molly Shannon was over there and I couldn't run
bowing over to Molly Shannon quick enough, like to think
of Molly Shannon being that person in the room the

(01:04:27):
let's yeah right right, yes, yeah, And when Mark Marin
I immediately start. I never thought that it would be
that way. Isn't that funny? Yeah? The Haven people like
the Haven people are always surprising. Do you guys find
in in these three years where your careers have soared,

(01:04:50):
do you find it like, especially comedy wise, do you
find that success has made your job easier of like
like going on stage and doing it or are you
more in your head or are you more like I
have the I know I have the room so I
can do the jokes I want when you go first. Okay,

(01:05:12):
the my whole Emmy's breakdown last week, which thank you
everybody for um listening to that. It was very self
indulgent that I would even bring it up on the podcast.
But that's that's an example of like, it's not getting
easier of me second guessing this very basic thing that
I thought I was good at, that I am expected
to do UM and just being like and having this

(01:05:37):
full dysphoria with it, being like I don't, I don't,
and I say dysphorias, and like other people have been like, no,
like you, I don't know why you think that, And
I guess I'm trying to move past it by calling
it that, but I think that it his his. It
was literally the fact that I had a suit, I

(01:05:57):
had a tux on, and that my hair was that
my makeup for and was late, and so therefore I
was like studying examining my face and my hair and
being like, I don't look right, and it's and it
has nothing to do with the capital t W work,
you know, like it has nothing to do with that.
And that's what I think I'm the most frustrated about
is that I'm like, I'm hung up on something that

(01:06:17):
I shouldn't even be hung up on. But therefore, like
on a meta level, that is the frustrating thing about
being in a place like that, And then I don't
know that's that's I'm still kind of scattered about it. Matt,
what do well? For me? It's similar because I also
find myself distracted sometimes, but I think I do it

(01:06:38):
to myself and just like thinking about the actual work itself,
Like I feel so grateful to have these opportunities that
I have, Like it was always my dream to book
a show like I love that for you, Like it
was always my like dream to be able to do
a movie with my friends and stuff, and like, you know,
it was my dream to be able to one day
like say, I have a comedy special and that I

(01:07:00):
have these opportunities, Like I get a little in my
own way when I think about sucking them up. So
I guess, like that's where what it is for me is.
It's just like, yes, of course I have all the
same um things around, you know, the star machine of
it all, you know what I mean. I look at
it and I'm like sometimes I look at my own
Instagram and I'm like, does it look like a funny

(01:07:21):
person's Instagram or just look like someone who's posted a
lot of pictures of himself. So I have a lot
of that, And I definitely think that because it was
my first experience in that machine like that, I've learned
from it, and you know, next time I'll be able to, like,
you know, keep the beast alive a little bit more
than just like you know, picture um. But I also

(01:07:43):
think at working at my job, like I've had other
act like Jennifer Lewis called me after we wrapped the
show and had to come out and she said, I
couldn't tell you this while we were shooting, but I
want to tell you now you're too hard on yourself.
And just hearing it from someone like her who really
apparently why watched and really apparently cared, I was just like,

(01:08:03):
you know what, now, I think I'm actually ready to
hear that and be go a little bit easier on myself,
because I think it's harder when you know you can
do it. And I say this not as someone with like,
not in an arrogant way, but I know I've worked
hard and I know I'm talented, and so I just
don't want to mess up the opportunities, and so that
gets more difficult when the opportunities are definitely going to

(01:08:24):
be seen, and when you are standing with people you
really respect and want to impress. You know, we're not
in basements anymore. Um, before two people, It's like, you know,
these are real opportunities to show yourself, and what you
have to remind yourself is that you're only going to
access the maximum of that opportunity by just letting yourself

(01:08:46):
be because you are why you're there. Yeah, and almost
like I find it so interesting, um honestly watching uh,
certain people in old episodes of SNL before they were
like stars of SNL and like like I forget who
it was, Kristen Wig or Will Ferrell or something like

(01:09:08):
their first skits they're not getting huge laughs because they
don't like have the room already, like like the people
aren't already Like what's it gonna say? It was? He
gonna say, Oh my god, I knew it was gonna
be amazing, Like winning people over from zero. It's it
takes a different set of tools. And I think like
probably in high school that's what we all did. Like

(01:09:29):
I remember saying a joke under my breath, no one laughing,
and then the jock next to me saying it louder
and getting a huge lad and being like, fuck off, man,
you just have the thing that I can't get, like
like the social poll of like the cafeteria being like,
whatever you do, we already are on board with you.
And so I wonder, I wonder if you're listening back

(01:09:51):
to yourself from three years ago, if it's like that
shift of like what's been at it is you have
the room now, and there's there's a difference between like
letting your brain get drunk on your follower account or
being at the palace and over serving yourself, or and
like the other thing is shedding a skin that's not

(01:10:14):
serving you anymore, of like you don't need the self
hate to or being hard on yourself to like get
the joke in sideways, because like you're at a different
fucking table now, and it's so finding a way to
still be able to sleep at night and be like
I'm always gonna hate myself, I was gonna be hard
on myself, and I'm always gonna come and think sideways.

(01:10:35):
But maybe there's a different Maybe my voice has dropped
for a good reason. Oh my God, I feel like
this whole episode has been me quoting your own book
back at you. But I did right down one line
which was so resonant and very important and it's exactly

(01:10:56):
what you're saying. But you were like, my favorit kind
of work is the weird silly work that like, UM
people make when um they're uninhibited, and that work never
gets made. If the loudest voice in your head is
maybe I should shut up, maybe I should be quiet,
I've been living with that voice for like the past year.

(01:11:17):
I think I think, I think this last season on
US and Now, I had a great season. I was
so lucky um to do everything I did. But I think,
I think, I think maybe something happened, like after that
second season that I had where I was like, this
was wow, I never expected these things to happen to me, um,

(01:11:39):
And it felt like I was really like earning earning
like whatever, like my key because I was still like
young and scrappy and starting out and it was like
you know COVID shows where we only had a half
full house, and I was like, I really gotta I
really gotta like go for it. And then maybe I
was like resting on my Laurels a little bit this
this last year. But I feel like there was that

(01:11:59):
also left room for that voice to creep in and
be like you should not do that that like you
probably shouldn't. And I think this just applies to like
my whole like comedic output in general. Like I haven't
but on stage, I haven't, um like in front of
like a you know, like like as myself, like in
like you know, in front of an audience really and

(01:12:20):
I'm I'm really excited to change that soon with stuff
and uh yeah, anyway, but but but that but thank
you for putting in those terms, Betty. But you're also
such a surgeon in terms of the way you your
comedy is. So it's so exact in the way that
you've observed all walks of life. And I think that
that probably it's one of the myriad of reasons why

(01:12:44):
you're so brilliant, but also maybe a reason that like
you can't turn that off, like if you're if you're
not taking apart the syllables of um an alexis Nyer's
phone call, it's like that turn onto your own self
of like if I don't have an engine going forward
into something, maybe it turns, which I mean we all

(01:13:08):
have that version of like the wheel gets put on
its side and it's like a tunnel downward, like and
now it's really dark. Um, but I'm so much but
as an audience member, I'm so much more interested in
your kind of comedy and art and uh as opposed
to like I feel like some comedians are just it's
like comfort porn, like you're watching someone like I feel

(01:13:31):
like that's why Louis c k was like, you're just
watching someone be so like no difference between if they
were talking to their best friend in their kitchen or you.
And it's like, oh wow, how interesting to see someone
be just so inherently themselves. But there's a point where
I don't know, that gets a little stale. It's weird
that we do any of the things we do and

(01:13:53):
there's something that special or like, I don't know, there's
there's nothing that's exceptional about this work except that you,
as an individual have to negotiate your own let's just
say narcissism. I know it's a clinical term, but like
narcism with all of the all of the offerings and
the spoils that like the industry can give you I

(01:14:16):
think that's like, yeah, that's that's what we're all talking.
But but another element of it that you do say
in the book is that a lot of it is fun,
you know what I mean, Like it's fun. I mean,
here's the thing about Cinderella. She wasn't the sad emoji
leaving the ball. That's not the emoji she was. She

(01:14:37):
she was this emoji and describe for the reader's bow.
She Oh, she was that side I like smirk, and
she was a little sided. She was a little bit yeah,
and she was also a little bit a little what
is face melting? Face melting? I think her face was

(01:14:59):
melted because there had been so much magic, Like I
didn't know that was possible. He's just Christ literally and
then also a little bit horny for the sorry but
prince Prince, and then definitely smirking at the possibilities of
a new world. And I think that is the thing
about going to these things, because you do leave a
little bit like drunk and giddy, and you're like, oh
my god, I talked to X y Z and like,

(01:15:23):
and you buzz a little bit because you get a
glimpse into that horny little world and then which it
is a horny little world. Yeah yeah, and at which
I do love about it, but like um, and then
you giggle away and you're like, oh my god, like
I got to like look into the fish bowl, but
it's so different. And also you know, to like coming
up as a little kid who like did read magazines,

(01:15:45):
like I remember reading US Weekly and laughing my ass
off to the fashion police, wanting to know what everyone
was up to, you know what I mean, Like these
people that I saw doing something I wanted to do,
What were they up to? What were they like, what
was going on in their lives? And then you get
into fish bowl and you're like, oh, these are just
people with varying degrees of like you know, whatever is

(01:16:06):
going on. And another thing about the stylist of it all,
like the pr of it all is. I remember like
reading those Uspeklee like fashion police things and if people
wore a bad outfit and we're like like clock throwing
a bad outfit. I remember me as a little kid
used to think, yeah, they're so stupid, Like they're so
stupid looking ugly, and it's just like, you know, any

(01:16:28):
of us were the stylist could show up looking bad
at any time, I never have loved my people, but
like it could happen to the best, smartest, most talented individuals,
and it has. But I remember thinking, like as a
little snarky kid who probably would be on Reddit these days,
a little shutter to think, yeah, what an idiot Laura
flt Yeah, what a fool like she t bos from TLC.

(01:16:55):
Really sucks because she showed up and I didn't like
her garment, Like dancing in this movie or show. It's
a little show, but it's an episode where we do
do choreography and I have been doing it in heels,

(01:17:16):
which I have to say sucks. Wow, Ginger Rogers behind
Oh yeah, I know. But coreo, the coreo of it all.
I find choreography to be excruciatingly hard. I don't know
that part of my brain doesn't exist. It's also just
like when you know, when you ever watch choreographers talk

(01:17:38):
to each other and they start to talk in like numbers,
and it's like on the two and the three, and
I think the three should actually become twos or should
they stay fours? Let's have it so, let's have um,
let's have Matt still be two and then where everyone
else is gonna be one. No, that doesn't make sense.
Matt still be a four. And I'm like, literally, my
brain is soup. My brain is the melting emoji. And
I'm like, Queen, I don't know, oh what you said,

(01:18:01):
and I don't know what it is? Are you singing
in it? Not in this? No, it's I can't say.
Just because the email, I was like, don't like, don't
you dare tell me when you're on the show. I
was like, okay, I think it was just like Netflix
being like platform. Yeah, no, but I'm I'm dancing. When's

(01:18:24):
the last time you did choreography? God, the last time
I did choreography? For that um Apple show Roar Um
did an episode and we did a dance in the
street at the end, and I just like in in
high school, I would have semi leads and musicals and

(01:18:45):
always the dance teacher would be like, and then we
know that you take an eight count back to the
back of this wave and we have the dancers come
and cover you because you are not a mover and
step touch in the back. Yeah exactly. Oh No, that's okay,
It's it's really, it's it's a whole. It's a whole.
But do you have to do a lot for SNL?

(01:19:07):
He learns like a little routine, a little routines. But
it's that they'll bring in like a choreographer who will
have to choreograph the easiest thing for everyone to do. Otherwise,
y'all we all kind of get get getting angry. Um wait,
what can I ask you about this new Damon lindelof
show you're you're in. I think you guys are going

(01:19:30):
to really love this show. I love Damon. You're talking
to a lost girl. Oh um, yes, it's I also
cannot say too much, but I am a nun and
I am it's um, yeah, it's a I think that
it might be a show that readers and their nonreader

(01:19:53):
siblings could enjoy together. Maybe it's going to bring together
and maybe parents. I can't tell who what sect of
people were going to make upset that someone might get upset.
Someone's going to get upset because you're a nun sort
of up to no good. I'm not. I don't know.
I don't know. You can't say so chic to not

(01:20:14):
be able to say, to be on a Damon Linda
love show and not be able to say but We're
not a dream that is the dream about about a
David lindelof Project. I texted, and I'm sorry, god, I
can't because he this is the nicest man. He texts
me every week after a show after he goes what
bow he goes bowing? That was amazing anyway, I texted,

(01:20:37):
I take it upon myself to text him this week.
I was like, I just finished Betty's book. You must
read it if you haven't. Isn't she the best? And
then he goes, I love her to death. It really
sucks that she can write circles around me and still
be a brilliant actress. Oh my god, I mean, it's
like you are the best actor. And also like this

(01:21:00):
is so good, like you were very busy to give home,
to give hours long homework is not not even it
was it was literally not homework because it genuinely, genuinely
like enriched every I loved reading every page of it.
I mean, it's so funny and it's so good. I
just like, I mean, I can't say enough like. And

(01:21:23):
it also like it must have been really fucking hard. Yeah,
it was, well, I don't know. I I wrote it
right after Mary was born and I think I was
still on just adrenaline literally from childbirth, and I wrote
it pretty fast. It was I think writing it in
quarantine was the only way that it could have. Like,

(01:21:45):
I think I was just so self conscious about not
being like I had such who cares that? Who cares?
Shut up energy around writing in particular that um, it
really felt like I wrote it when we when we
the world is over, when we're no more like we
were going to be inside forever. And so it's like

(01:22:07):
one last shout to the wave of the tsunami before
it crashes on all of us. Here's the book and
the tsunami dissipated its like ah published, I just like
as someone who like dreams of like doing this one day,

(01:22:28):
Like I just I was so blown away and inspired
by it because and I will say again, like the
character of you is so well drawn, because you are
on every page and your voice is so clear, and
like you really you're you are such a narrator of
life in this. But what really comes through for me
are all the characters, like for example, the character of Max.

(01:22:49):
You know what I mean, that person that person that
just like like really gets you know what I'm saying,
Like those people you need along the way. They're so
viv did um and so that would be like, I
think the thing I walk away from this like really
really feeling like I learned something about and like really

(01:23:10):
inspired by was just the way in which I feel
like even when you reference someone later on, like I
feel like that they were my old friend or like,
oh my god, yeah when that happened in our life,
that was that was tough of it all. Don't bring
the max of it all up to me, thank you.
Oh my god. I have like twenty copies of the

(01:23:33):
book that the publisher sent me to like quote give
out to friends, and it's just sitting in my car
because I'm like the thought of walking up to someone
that I and I leave I'm filming in l A
for the next two weeks, and then leave and I'm
not bringing them. I'm like, I'm just gonna literally leave
it on the side of the road, I think, and
the heaven like a little surpassor whoever. I mean, I

(01:23:58):
don't know what a beautiful plan and um maybe time
bo it might be time. But very quickly, I want
to mention one last thing in the book which I
really stayed with me, which was, um, you talking about
like going to a Spanish olive oil factory with your family,
and like your dad so intently having to listen to
this man like give a terrible tour about the place

(01:24:23):
and he's and then your dad is like, it's like
doing a matinee love, which is like this this person
is like bearing their soul the great people. Yeah, the
olive oil factory had been in his family for generations.
And we were stopping off on this tour and you
know all these fanti packed chicken nugget people that we
were that we did not want to listen to a

(01:24:44):
monologue about olive oil and the history of the olive
And my dad was like, we have to listen to
every syllable with our hands over our hearts, because we
all know that feeling of like things that you have
the audience in the palm of your hand and looking
up and seeing looking at their cell phone or it's
or or people are like I have to be. I
had to I had to go. There's something about like

(01:25:06):
humanity that is so like distilled in that idea to
me that I'm like, I'm like, I was like, funk,
this is this is crazy anyway, And I think that
those that's what makes those connections actually important and meaningful
and not just bullshit of like those fleeting moments like
I see you, I see you, I see you, even
if it's like only one part of you, it's the

(01:25:29):
part that you thought that no one would see. So
seeing someone you know wave to it like it's the
most obvious part of you. It is. It is meaningful
and more meaningful than Jada Pinkett Smith gliding by. Yeah.
And also just like, oh my god, this is the
end of the chapter where you read the letter that

(01:25:51):
you had gotten from the kid that you did the
play with. Just the end of that. I had to
put that. I had to put it down and walk
around after that because that's just like I don't know,
everyone like like we can we cannot be you must
read it. And actually one of the chapters inspired and
I don't think so honey. Oh my god, Oh I'm excited.

(01:26:21):
So this is why I don't think so honey. And
start one minute segment that we do on Lost Culture
which is a sort of an abbreviation for the podcast
title Lost Cultures with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, and
we do sixty second rounds on things that we no
no no, no no no. Um to quote Destiny's child
about this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many
as time starts now, I don't think so honey boarding school.

(01:26:44):
Don't hid there because no, I don't like any element
of it. And I will say this, I feel like
I understand my boarding school friends a lot better now
for having read this. To me. Feels like you just
never get a moment of quiet and a loan to yourself,
Like because you go to school with the people that

(01:27:06):
that you, that inhabit rooms with, I understand me make
close connections. But Mama, it's called boundaries. Honey boarding school
being a place where boundaries thrive, it seems like you
can never escape each other and yourself pause for a
moment of importance. And it's so important that you get

(01:27:29):
some space, and at a boarding school you get no space.
Also not for nothing, but I need to see my
mom like that would have been the part that really
broke me and stuff. I don't think so honey boarding school,
Gus Hicky, my friend, I feel like I understand you better.
You went to the school. Oh my god, the school,
Oh my god. Oh I knew this and I always knew.

(01:27:51):
I always knew he had like that he went to
boarding school, and then hearing about the school, I was like,
I have to text my friend. I do think Gus
was a day it in. Maybe what does that mean
you only go for the day that? Or maybe no,
maybe he was a border But I went to a
house party at his house because you did. Yeah. Yeah,
I got very drunk. Got pulled over on the way

(01:28:13):
there for going, um, what I thought was ninety miles
an hour in the fast one. I was going forty
two miles an hour in the fast wing. So and
I pulled over on the left side for a For
a lifelong stoner, you have like total recall. I was gonnay,
there are big swats that are gone. Maybe it's that

(01:28:36):
that's the part that got fried. Also, one of my
favorite things that happens on Less Coltrisis is when Matt
says something and then Bone just repeats it quietly. I
realized that Matt has such a command of language and
likely completely you do man right. It's the writer in you,
like you know how it HiT's the ear. You always

(01:28:58):
find the exact right sequence of syllables that it hits
the ear in a way that is indelible, and that's
why people repeat your ship all the time. That's that's
that's exactly what it is. And you you hold the
like the feeling of when you're swinging, and your stomach
flips like you hold us there for so long You're like,
how is this so sustainable that this sentence is still happening?
I still feel butterflies in my stomach because I'm loving

(01:29:19):
the sentence, and then the drop like how is it
gonna land? Its okay, But here's the thing. I think,
I thank you and I received that. I think I
have a very colorful and dare I say, innovative way
with words, but the words are not always right and
doesn't matter. And this is the surgeon, this is well,

(01:29:39):
this is bone coming in with either a statement of
what was incorrect for comedic effect because it is so wrong,
or he'll come in and say, actually it's this and
move on and I love it. And then there are
sometimes like sometimes I will listen back to old episodes
and I'll be like, I mean the mean it to

(01:30:00):
give it yeah as a as a homage, Yes, yes,
I love bowing. I miss you. I've been missing that
a lot. I've been so we've been separated. When are
you guys going to get back together? Maybe holidays? New
Year's that's too far away, so far away. We're thinking

(01:30:21):
we actually we actually have sort of a loose um
New Year's plan. It's gonna be a gag. We're thinking
about doing Miami and then Orlando, Florida. Wow for the holidays,
No Miami for New Year's and then post New Year's

(01:30:43):
maybe we go up to Orlando and finally right this
guardian to the coach starting that, He's like, great, isn't
it frustrating that soon you're going to have a full
blown child that you have to take. I know, I
am excited it to show her the new Little Mermaid?
Do you follow? Is it? They have the range? On Instagram?

(01:31:06):
They have the range or the what is it? Um,
let's here for the choice. Yes, yes, yes, they have
the range and there's their you better sing they have
the range and you better Things are too like the
craziest and there are people who are singing on top
of arials. Oh the clip of part of your world
and harmonizing with it. I'm obsessed. Yeah, it's gonna give,

(01:31:33):
it's gonna serve it's gonna eat, it's gonna slay. Okay,
who I miss you? Um? Okay, Well, the creator of
the show just texted me and said the dance is
so fucking good. So my god. The Coreo YouTube's have
made their rounds and apparently we're doing good work. Okay,

(01:31:54):
just checking in. My favorite moment of the week, Bowen yangs.
I don't think so, honey. I don't think so honey.
Gum like, I'm not supposed to swallow you, but then
if I chew you, you run out of flavor? How's
that work? What's that about? The gum technology has not progressed.

(01:32:15):
There's been no change in gum technology in the last
forty years. It's crazy. Ask anyone on the street what
zilatol is. They'll not tell you because no one knows
where it airs. What that is? Start advertising it on
the gum and we were promised Willy Wonka levels of
candy and gum innovation and we have not reached it.

(01:32:38):
The most the biggest innovation in candy lately has been
maybe nerds clusters. They basically took the nerds rope, they
cut it up into little chunks. It's the most amazing
blend of textures in your mouth. Talk about a mouth feel.
But gum, you're not doing anything new. You have not
changed or mixed up Angila. I need you to Epita,

(01:33:00):
give us something new. And that's one minute. This this,
I'm not dragging you, but this ideology is what's going
to lead to AI taking over. You do realize that, right.
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying artificial AI is
the technology. Not all technology reaches of ideology. I'm saying

(01:33:21):
it is ideologically are there's no AI in targeting the
chocolate bacter mom ideology. It's this idea that things must progress.
Let's stay on the merry go around. It doesn't have
to be a merry go around on a roller coaster.
Sometimes things can just be gum. It can run out

(01:33:43):
you're not supposed to all the time. You're gonna hurt
your jaw. Gum is out, lollipops are in, lollipops are back,
Oh my god. First of all, I think the umbrella
could improve as well. Why are we the same eighteen
forty model? Because I had this idea of like like
city bikes, but for umbrellas like little chaos. Yes, when

(01:34:05):
it's raining you go and then you return it. But
the problem is the design of the umbrella sucks, and
it would they would all break and you simply cannot
be that it's going to come back in condition like
better than you found it. I mean, like these umbrella.
But I just I don't think this thing of gum

(01:34:27):
that never runs out of flavor is a good idea.
I think it's going to lead to dark things. I
think I think T MJ will go through the roof.
I think technology has come far enough will then make
it will then at least make gum edible, like at
least like I'm not supposed to swallow you um, Yeah,

(01:34:47):
I can't swallow you want to swallow gum? It's called
fucking starbursts. No, you never even thought about that, And
that's why you said no one looked down So is
because you hadn't even thought of starburst where you were like,
why can't I swallow my gum? And pitched and pitched
a fit. It's time to move on. It's a Sunday, Betty,

(01:35:09):
Are you ready? I am? I I just I thought
of it right before I realized I didn't have one.
I hope you haven't done this. It doesn't matter. It
doesn't matter because you, as you've proven with the book,
all the women in my brain are going to give
it your own classic spin. Oh man, okay, this is
Betty Gilpin's I don't think so, honey. Her time starts now.

(01:35:31):
I don't think so, honey. The death of the standing ovation?
Where did we go wrong? A standing ovation is meant
for when you are so overwhelmed and you your your
life has been changed by a performance that you leap
to your feet because you can no longer sit physically,

(01:35:52):
and the whole group does it together, and it's it's
a once a year maximum or or once a decade.
I'm so embarrassed and like I my throat clothes thinking
about it, by these fifteen minute long standing ovations whatever?
Like when when these movies are ending as everyone being

(01:36:13):
like and now we have to fucking stand up for
fifteen minutes? And who was very talented? All these people
are very talented. We've we've hyperbolized ourselves into the sky.
How are we supposed to think any compliment means anything anymore?
It doesn't make sense. The guillotines are too sharp, the
pedestals are too high. Let's meet in the middle with
some truth. I don't think so, honey. The standing ovation,

(01:36:37):
So you are arguing for muted responses. No, I mean
we're talking about yeah, sorry, choose when, choose when to do?
Like I remember my m my, my great uncle or
something was like a Broadway producer and he was the
first person who are one of the first people who

(01:36:58):
helped move guys and doll balls to Broadway and talked
about how when they first sang sit down your rock
in the boat, like the whole audience was like they
were going to rip their chairs out of the ground
and lead to their feet, and they made him do
it like four more times like in that performance and
that and I know they did that with um You're
Gonna Love Me Jennifer Holiday, Like the standing ovation was

(01:37:21):
so raucous that they were like, we got to do
this song again, Oh my god. And I just like
we've just the concept of the standing ovation and the compliment.
We just it's too much. How do we know? How
do we know what's wrong and what's real? There were
five when we saw a Funny Girl last week, and

(01:37:42):
we did feel that they were earned, Like we definitely
did leap up with everyone else, like you know what's
cool would suck me up is like you're watching this
movie that you're a part of whatever, Like are doing
a show that you're a part of whatever. It gets
a eight to nine minute Toronto International Film Festival or
any of these film festival ask talking about the film festival.

(01:38:04):
But but this is what I'm saying is it's like
then you walk out and the reviews hit and people
are like, we didn't like this exactly exactly, stood and
clapped your hands wrong. Yes, yeah, yeah, And I feel
like I have felt that change in the industry in
terms of like while you're making something and then the

(01:38:24):
immediate like the first people who see it like what
we've done is we've changed film and yeah, and wait
until you and so the hyper legal and then the
first thing it hits is the Internet, which is the
opposite of like you deserve to die. And then like
a year later the truth emerges of like it's somewhere

(01:38:45):
in the middle. It's like people don't even really get
exactly or like you didn't change the form, and you
didn't you don't deserve the death penalty. You made a
thing that's part good and part bad. There, yeah, but
you're your whole stating ovation thing. Um, thank you for
putting for putting Crazy for You back on the map

(01:39:06):
in your book. That is an excellent musical musical. You
ever saw Crazy for You? Yes? With Jody Benson? Oh
my god, yeah she wasnt Yes, And I cannot find
the soundtrack is not on Spotify, not on iTunes, on
neshing limids like what Disney's gone? Um No, her voice

(01:39:30):
singing those gros one songs, unbelievable. There are two clips
of it. But she is a talent, Like she's a talent.
She really is fun. Wait, but did you this is
a shot in the dark. But did you listen to
her interview? Um, what that she did with Danny pelle
Grenow and everything iconic? You really should know. I heard
you talking about it. But I have I have to

(01:39:53):
such a nice like he asked such good questions about
just like being a singer capital s hard are who
then goes in to do this acting piece as like
a child's cartoon and then just like getting there and
just I don't know the human voice everyone, I've always
thought that part of your world should be done as

(01:40:14):
a woman realizing she is a terrible quarter like you
want you want seeing them abobs I've got. Oh my god,
look at this. I'm crazy. I have to go the ocean.

(01:40:39):
You think our compliments aren't real. No, no, my god, no,
no, no no, no, no, when they're to me, I know
that honestly, you know you know what. I haven't seen
that that you just recently did that I'm really excited about,
and I keep wanting to see it. But it is
on stars, which is the only thing that was stopping
because I don't have it. I want as starts. No one. Well,

(01:41:01):
I mean there's so many. There's so many like platforms now,
and I already feel like I already feel like I
have everything, and then something comes out that I really
want to see and I'm like, oh, I don't have
that one, Like like, there's so many. Do you guys
have peacock Peacock? Because I love housework? Oh right, okay,
great great great is a beautiful place. But none, none, none,

(01:41:23):
it's gonna love love. I love peacock. Peacock got so
much of my actual because that's another thing. It's like
you you you pay for all these streamers and then
you actually sit like zoom out and think which one
do I actually use like out there for me? Yeah?
Am I TV plus though, or only when the Morning

(01:41:43):
Show is out right right right right right? Yeah, by
the way, I mean, I just can't wait for that.
Oh my god, you need to get on that. I do,
I do, I know, I mean like, I mean like
Betty needs to get a role on it. Oh, you
need to it on that. Yeah, But you do know that.

(01:42:03):
Every time I see a good show or see a
good film, or like I'm thinking about even writing something,
I'm always like, and how would Betty be in it?
I literally I'm always like, Where's what's the part of
the show that Betty could play? Like I do watch
Morning Show and I'm like, where's Betty kept Betting in there?
It's because you're number one. Do a show where you
have a long ponytail, and you're dresses Aaron Brackwitch and

(01:42:24):
you're wrapped in silks by the door with a ship,
and so can I ask your questions? So with me
with this long ponytail and your vision of us when
I sort of stow up to the bank bowen and silks?
Is he also like is he presenting female? I think
I'm bald? No, no, no, I don't think I think
it's sort of like you're you dressed in and you're

(01:42:47):
dressed in purple to the sky. Yeah, okay, got it. Yeah,
Well you know, I I every time I see Kate
Hudson in the project, that's who I am. So that's
I guess when I'm stomping around going to the bank,
I'm Kate Hudson, right right, right, Yeah. It's just on
a vision board. You're the piccolo Aaron Rockovich and we've
got bassoon, purple silks, just things that I'm adding to

(01:43:09):
the boards. I'm going to use this just like for
my own subconscious like you know, like sort of like
as I'm working through something. Wow, amazing, thank you, Thank
you guys. Well, well what else to say? I mean,
this is it's it's such a great read, and like, honestly,
if you want to just um be smiling at a

(01:43:32):
book with full teeth, um pick up All the Women
in My Brain, which is available now by our literal
Um limitless guests. I mean, you're the best, and we're
so happy that you came back. Thank you so much
for having me. I love you guys so much. I
really do love you. But we love you, love you.
But I wish. I really wish we could have been

(01:43:52):
in the same because I remember there was like a
loose thing where maybe we were all going to be
in l A and then that so didn't happen. I
know we will join together, We will join together. Yeah,
I'll be back in New York in December. Yes, we
will all join together in New York. But until then, bowen,
what do we do at the end of every episode?
And this is this is a throwback to your last episode,

(01:44:24):
I'm crossing. What did I change the key? No? I
think I just my basement was too low into our
basements are so much lower than they were three years ago,
because of the years, because of the years. We didn't

(01:44:45):
pick a title up? Should it be the years? Dot
dot dot? I think? But that's not about that's about us.
It's not about our No, no, no, but no, that's
I approved gets in magic and anyway, happy you all
shared it with that thought practice readers, Bye bye you
love love you h

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Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}“Piccolo & Bassoon” (w/ Betty Gilpin)