"Taylor ALISON Swift" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look mad oh, I see you? Why why? And look
over there? How is that culture? Yes, goodness, culture. This
is going one of the great weeks of life for
many reasons. I wouldn't even chalk it up to one
single reason. And you'll notice I didn't. You'll actually notice

(00:23):
I didn't even chalk it up to one single major
tay orrific reason. But there is so much to talk
about bowing at the gate. Let me just say we
need to savor times like these. There's a lot of
bad stuff going on in the world. You might have
had a personally rough week yourself. I'm talking to the readers,

(00:44):
the katies, the publicists by however you identify out there.
However you identify out there, weeks like these where we
can all have fun talking about art. Shall we say?
Is that rest assle? Oh my god? Do you your
word could have shoulda freaka? What is a song and

(01:07):
a half? Not to jump ahead, but I feel like,
spiritually are this generation of Taylor this is are all
too well period. Wow, it's getting disrespected by being on
bonus tracks. But also if that doesn't matter, well, let's
we can talk about this later. But but the three
Am songs have a specific intention in DNA behind them

(01:28):
and we'll talk about that later. Anyway, lots of great reasons. Um,
my nephew's briss was on Thursday. How was the brist?
Everything go? Well? Okay, can I tell you? Mr Aaron
Weiss is his name? Champ screamed. I was expecting something
like this during during, but it was actually this is this,

(01:54):
this was this was what this boy did. Yeah, let's see.
If I had to imagine my penis getting clipped, I
think it would just sort of feel like this, No,
are you kidding me? Your your foreskin getting circumcised. I
think if you get it into adulthood, like it's apparently

(02:15):
like you're knocked out and you're on your damn back
for like a week. Yeah, forget it. This kid was
just on tailan all for the next day and that
was that, even the next day, the next twelve hours. Anyway,
it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Um, welcome to the world, Aaron,
Mr WAMR. He's he's so sweet. He broke his collarbone

(02:38):
on the way out. What I know, because he's a
big boy. I think that that happens. I think that happens. No,
and he's he's doing great. And um, the family is
very happy. Anyway. Christmas Thursday, I wrapped on Nora from Queen's.
I brought a whole damn. I say about how much
I loved that, and um, it's been a good week.
And then and then Midnights and then when and you

(03:00):
also saw Tar And you've had a reaction to Tar
that I couldn't have even dreamed about. I knew you
would enjoy it, but you're you're saying big things. I
think this is one of my favorite movies of all time,
period period. And he said the same thing. I've now
seen it again. I've seen it twice. I am about
to see it again with Josh and Aaron because we
went out to the club. We went to six six,

(03:23):
which is a monthly hyper pop party in Brooklyn by
the amazing DJ the Limit doesn't exist. Yes, it's such
a fun party. And every song that came on me,
Aaron and Josh were going, this was what Lydia wanted,
This what Lydia want. The Grammy for that and but then,
but our theory now is that Lydia's egot wins are
all for acting. Yeah, well that makes sense because she

(03:44):
certainly was doing a convincing portrayal someone who was safe
to be around. Oh my god, I'm so happy you
liked it so much. I loved it. For for more
on Tar. For Matt Rodgers and Guy Brandham's thoughts on Tar,
please listen to the last week's episode. They said everything
that that need be said. I loved the movie. I'm
so happy that you didn't. I also don't want to
take anything away from you. So at any point during

(04:06):
the discourse today, you feel like you absolutely have to
get out your terrific million dollar pun right there responses
to the film, You just stop everything and say, wait,
hold on this scene and you can go off. Okay,
thank you so much, But look, how did you experience
the album? And let's just be real. Let's just be
very real. It makes it's time to be real and

(04:27):
a by him for sure, deleting um. But did you
know because I was with people on Thursday night at
Halloween Horror Knight's, and of course the album was out.
We were all like, oh my god, we're so so excited.
And so then I was with some people that were like,
there's rumors of a sister album, and I was like,
you're you've got to be fucking kidding me, and they
were like, yes, Midnight's East Coast Midnight is getting an album.

(04:49):
West Coast Midnight is people. That That's what was. That's
what the rumor was, the heavy rumor on the streets
of Halloween horror Knights, which were as spooky and OOKI
as ever. By the way, and the Weekend has a
hunted house, and I was literally screaming running from the
Weekend from Able from Abel himself, so thinking in my

(05:11):
head while I'm running away from Able an amazed theme
to him and his music. I was like, is there
about to be a three Am drop? And then lo
and behold at midnight there was the Midnight's three Am version,
and I was like, oh my god, the seven new
songs because of course she had to stop at thirteen
for the regular album. We all know, America, that's the girl,
and then these seven songs. When I tell you I

(05:33):
went home that night. For me, two out of my
three favorite songs are in the three Am section. Let's
we could talk about this, but let's just say the
fact that you heard this at Universal Studios. Let's just
established here now. If you want your swifty news first,

(05:53):
the place to be is city Walk what you mad?
City Walk is the source for swifty news. Well, city
Walk is the center of Hollywood. It's actually why city
Walk was nominated one of the best um neighborhoods in
L A in the last school ESA's Culture Awards. And
actually I believe, I believe it did not win. Oh no, CityWalk,
CityWalk did win. City Walk did win Best Neighborhood in

(06:15):
Los Angeles. That makes a lot of sense because it
really is. It's where the interesting artists are, I would say,
and the people who are really plugged in with their
ear to the ground of the entertainment industry are at
city Walk, absolutely, and at really renowned restaurants of great
esteem and repute. What was it. They're having dinner at
Bubba Gump, They're getting a post dinner drink at Margarita Ville.

(06:37):
These are where the movers and shakers go. They picking
up a little they're picking up a fortune cookie at
Panda Express. They really are, they really are. And so like, yes,
I'm there, I'm hearing it. And then the three a
M version rolls around and wow, And to find that
that also had a concept which you alluded to earlier.
Would you do you want to get into that, okay.
So I would say thirteen tracks on the Coreman Night's

(07:00):
album are very sonically and thematically tight. It's contemplative, it's quiet,
it's subdued, and I would say the three AM tracks
are at the witching hour of three am, where your
mind truly goes to some wild places. That is the
more emotionally um on wheel dy time of the night,

(07:26):
and you really your your mind goes to the extremes.
Midnight is actually a pretty chill time of day. That's
the thing too. It's like you know, when you're a
baby and they tell you, oh, it's exciting to stay
up till midnight on New Year's you sort of get
this thing in your head that the most thrilling moment
as your cognition is forming, you think it's a feat
to stay up till midnight. But then you get to

(07:48):
be an older person and you find out that midnight
is not so late. So the things you're thinking about
about at midnight you can find in these first thirteen tracks.
Definitely contemplative. Definitely it's me by myself sort of thinking
to myself. But three Am, I mean, these are the
the issues that arise and cause a restless mind. The
three AM is where you go. I think there's been

(08:09):
a glitch. Three AM is basically when you go. Did
you see the photos? No? I didn't. But thanks though.
First of all, like you're so right about the chaotic
nature of the three AM tracks because that first verse
of Paris, I am obsess bone. I've never heard something
to Taylor in my life. By the way, we should
just say a lot of people have been asking is

(08:29):
this a Taylor album or a Taylor album. I have
an opinion on this, and I want to know if
you share it. This is a Taylor album, But this
album is Taylor having taken a breath, And this is
this is Taylor having said, you know what, I'm certainly Taylor,
I'm certainly on my ship, but I'm taking a breath
so I can collect my thoughts. This is Taylor with

(08:53):
sound mind. This is Taylor saying, let me use my talent,
my gifts for a contemplative end. This is Taylor energy
with Taylor lyrics. Truly brov Tay Laura again. But I
just want to leave that in the folklore Everymore era
because this is something different. This is this is a culmination.

(09:16):
I agree, I think I'm just gonna come out with
it right away. Okay, I don't think this is Taylor.
I don't think this is Taylor. I think this is
something entirely new. And it just came to me. You know,
I proposed to you a new sort of binary breaking persona.
And I'm actually not going to present that here tonight,

(09:39):
at this time. Okay, what I am going to present
is Allison. Oh. This album is the first Allison album. Oh,
this is this album is Alley with one L with
one L. My god, and and and I not not

(10:02):
a y and I this is a I. Um, I'm
sitting in this. First of all, let me tell you
something bouting. It's you, Hi. You are not the problem.
It's not it's not with this, with this assessment, you
have really killed a girl. I never stare directly at
the sun only in the movie. Wait, so let's go
track by track and I can't do hold on, well,

(10:25):
can I can I actually explain? Okay, let me just
quickly before we do track by track, let me just
quickly explain, Ali, I got my notes out, Allison. Yeah,
go ahead. Tell us the readers, which, by the way,
oh my god, dear reader, keep on yet there's a
lot of less culch in this out on this album,
and we'll get into it. The Taylor Swift theory, the

(10:45):
unifying theory of Taylor Swift is this is someone who
is constantly making the self. She's constantly figuring out the identity.
This is the difference between Taylor Swift and let's say, Beyonce.
Beyonce is thinking about her legacy in terms of a

(11:05):
community and in terms of the greater sort of experience
of her music, which is that we all love and
are obsessed with a Beyonce drop, right, and we can
all sort of get behind a Beyonce album when it
comes out. And her music is about a collectivism. It's
about like my community, let me give the spotlight away
from me and put it on a big frieda on

(11:28):
the house of aubionce on like I'm just and this
is just renaissance. Okay, Yeah, that's just gonna say this. This
This feels like a renaissance like assessment. Yes, yes, with Taylor,
it is about an individualism. And I don't even mean
this in a pejorative way, but Taylor Swift's music is
all is usually only about one person, and usually at

(11:48):
the time it's about her. Yeah, this is really interesting
because actually I was walking to get coffee earlier and
I was thinking that in the same regard, it's really
interesting to see her lyrics start to turn inward as
opposed to outwards. So the younger Taylor was always like
the problem is with other people, like the issue my
issues are with other people. I've been wronged, I want

(12:11):
something I can't have. It was very much connecting with
her audience in the regard of like we are externalizing.
And then in the last few albums, and I think
it's been really interesting to see her sort of bring
this like Taylor performance energy, this like fresh, poppy, fun
performance energy, and this vibe to what is now I

(12:31):
think the first time that we're seeing her in a
consistent block of like the last three albums turn inward,
you know what I mean, and she like, for example,
with Anti Hero that to me is self consciousness anxiety,
like anthem this is and honestly it's Taylor being aware
of Taylor and being like, sometimes I'm so humiliated by

(12:53):
myself and you know what I mean, Like if someone
at her stature, that's like pretty bold and for us
to ill understand and get on a certain level that
this is a pop song that we all can enjoy,
but it's very much about the individual. I don't think
we've seen that since like thank You next where we're like,
this is this artist's song and probably no one else

(13:14):
can ever do it in a way that's going to
hit on this scale that means such a specific thing
for a specific person, and that is a feat one
thousand percent. I've said this before. I'm like, oh, my
thing with Taylor's music is that like you can't really
throw it on at the club right like and so
it's not so it is like because it's this confessional

(13:36):
song singer songwriter tradition. But the thing Okay, so I
listened to Into It by Sam Sanders. We love Sam.
He did in an episode about Taylor Swift. He had
on and powers from NPR. An amazing music writer and
she has all these wonderful insights and her idea of
like the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is that it's
someone who kind of like a Bob Dylan was able

(13:56):
to marry singer songwriter, confessional person with um writing about
a persona and kind of even more so than Bob Dylan,
like is writing about the way she is perceived in
a way that not that many people have really done
in like modern recorded music. And so Auntie here is

(14:19):
a perfect thing where it's Taylor Swift writing about Taylor Swift,
which we can't really even blank Space, which is like
her other self aware Bob is like pure Taylor, pure
because there there is one intent behind it, and it's
to tenttalize totally. And so with Midnights you kind of
realize as a listener that her whole career has been

(14:43):
like the painter painting a self portrait. It's it's van Gogh.
It's like every now and then she'll paint a starry night,
you know, a still life, a vase or something, but
like the most impactful work, and and not in like
a vain reason, not her vain sort of motivation. Is
her painting herself at different stages in her life. And

(15:07):
then you go, wow, this is really interesting and then
it gets everyone talking. And so the reason why, like
I do think that the online discourse is a little divided.
People are like, it's not her best album. I don't
understand it. I think it's because it is again the
individualist thing where it's like this is about me, and
so that's harder for people to get behind because no

(15:28):
one else's Taylor Swift exactly. And I also think lyrically
it's dense and in this type of music that can
sometimes be a little bit hard to find lyrically, Like
I feel like it took me. I loved it instantly,
but it took me about two or three listens on
each song to really figure out what everything was about,
because there's there's both a lot going on and also

(15:51):
it is weirdly minimalist too. But what I loved is like,
and what I've always noted about her is she is
so good. It at just very simply getting an emotion across,
like I always walking all the way back to you
belong with me. You're on the phone with your girlfriend.
She's upset, she's going off about something that you said
because she doesn't get your humor like I do. Like

(16:12):
this is what every girl thinks about. The guy that
doesn't look at her is wow, like there there and
it's specifically like lashing into she doesn't get your humor
like I do, you immediately know you are that girl,
You are her, like we're experiencing it and to see
her sort of get more intelligent with the way that
she wields words and uses and just like becomes more

(16:34):
emotionally intelligent. Over time, she has maintained that talent, but
now it is her lyrics are this lyrically is her
her best album and literally like there's something in every
single song where I have to be like, what did
she just say? Like ultimately an anti hero like, um,
I'll stare directly at the sun but never in the

(16:54):
mirror like that is really you know, And what's going
to be a Billboard number one hot one hit like
that is some ship m hmm, totally, it's all truism.
Mariah carry is clapping, you're so verbos queens recognized verboas queens. Literally,
Maria is gonna write Taylor a letter about this one.

(17:16):
For sure, She's gonna say, hey girl, I just want
to say what you did there? I know, I know
that the tourist was out period, and definitely it's time

(17:38):
for it's time for the track by, It's time for
the track by track and um, so we hit play
And first of all, can I just say something because
a lot of people are going to be like rolling
their eyes. I know a lot of the Sorry but
fags that listen to this are gonna be rolling our
eyes because we didn't mention Carly Rae. Let me say
two things I went to. I went to the Carly
Ray concert at the Greek the other night. She was

(18:01):
so much fun. She puts on an incredible show, hits
so great live. She looked stunning. Her backup dancers looked
like Heather Gay and Whitney Rose from the real house
of Salt Lake City. It was so shocking. But her also,
her set was amazing. The moon was talking to us
katam in life so headman life, and she knew what
she was doing because she stopped one song in the

(18:22):
middle and said, wait, wait, I want to take you
into my fantasy. And I was like, this nymph is
going off like it was giving tinker Bell vibes and
Julia Roberts could never wow. Her album is fab but
I'm sorry, my my all, my time and energy was
taken up by this one thing. I did give car

(18:43):
carle right a couple of spins. You have, but you
got everyone's everything. Go listen. Shooting Star bends as an
excellent album. My favorite is the first track, Surrender My
Heart surrender my heart. That's what I want from Carly, right,
you know what I mean, like just really solid song.
I mean, I like that she's trying to do something

(19:04):
a little bit like a beach house. I'm always like,
I don't I can't really currently connect with this, but
I like that she's taking a rest. Beach house is
really giving Cobra starship to me, it's giving good girls
go in Maliboon, probably gonna hood you. I mean, that's
a great hook. That's a good hook. Listen to Betty

(19:25):
who big. Really, God, we're so spoiled right now, We're
so we're really up to the neck in pop girly time. God.
And then the other day in the car, I just
like was I was like, you know what, we're putting
on renaissance from my ride to therapy and back, and
that one's always going to be right there too. This
has been a year, a wonderful year, forget about it.

(19:49):
You know where I'm going on Wednesday? I'm going to
see the Moona concert. And if you're going to be
there tonight, I guess so, So tonight I will be
at the Moona Concert getting my life. Um, alright, so
are we going from traqua. Let's go from track one
and we're doing all twenty period period. Okay, track one,
Lavender Hayes this to me when this started. When when
I heard me I'm Midnight, I was excited. I was like,

(20:12):
I'm sorry, but confirmed this is a Taylor album. The
way that she introduced herself, I was just I was
already smiling big and then you knew that that was
just gonna be giving us vibes. Her vocalizations, her random
vocalizations are popping on this album. Okay, speak on this.

(20:33):
I'm just saying, oh nothing, which I also love, and
that's getting a race. Like I'm just saying like things
that she found vocally here, like non lyrically. I just
think they're up there with her best. Yeah, okay, I
trust this. Okay. My. The thing that I always think
about when I listened to this is the j sweet

(20:55):
who wonderful writer, producer, has done a lot of stuff
with Drake did heat it to on Renaissance, and I
saw when they dropped the credits like days before the release,
I was like, this is going to be interesting because
I thought maybe it was gonna be a Drake collab.
I thought maybe I was gonna be a surprise Drake
clab because there was a bunch of rumors that there
was a Taylor Drake collab which didn't happen, but also

(21:16):
who maybe it existed, we haven't heard it yet. Sure
sure this one. I didn't really know what to make
of it. On first listen, it was like interest, like
she she's kind of um. The track ones are always
always interesting with her, interesting with her And I don't
mean that in a in a bad way either, I

(21:38):
mean like it's a it's a very deliberate thing every
single time. Yeah, Like to me, the one on Folklore
is a choice for the first yeah, you know, and
this was giving me the one like I'm doing good,
I'm on, I'm on some new ship like that to
me was giving like it was the same vibe as
I've been under scrutiny. Yeah, yeah, beautifully. Yeah Yeah. I

(21:59):
was like, Okay, so we're talking about the things that
she's going through publicly. Here we go, and I was like,
this is Taylor, And I thought, oh, I hope this
isn't too indulgent in this regard. But but then it
was really just again she brought it back to the
safety that she feels in this new feeling in the
new relationship. The Lavender Hayes, which I don't know if
you saw her interview about this, but she was watching

(22:20):
mad Men and someone mentioned being in the Lavender Hays
which is feelings of new love. That's sort of like
hazy feeling of new love, that nice comfort in a
new um emotion that's positive. And I love that she
used this because the really the whole album to me
is like starting end ending book ending as a love
letter to Joe Um and so in that way, like
by the time I got to the end, I was like,

(22:42):
Lavendar Hayes is gonna hit really hard on second listen totally.
I think it's a sensitive song for Glor's for sure.
I think glors are incredibly betrayed because they see the
word lavender, they go, she's gonna come out, She's gonna
come out. And now she doubled down on the head
row life. She's simply not queer. That's what she was

(23:03):
saying with Lavender Hayes. And that's okay, swift ease, it's
okay to be straight. It's actually real culture number forty
nine swift sweets okay to be pretty straight. I've been
saying that for months now. I'm gonna start saying it
today and then every day going forward for the rest
of my life. Hey, everyone, readers, if you go up

(23:25):
to a straight person today, I just put your hand
on the shoulder and just say it's okay to be straight.
It's okay, and you can tell if they're straight. Let
me go because the outfits are terrible. Oh my god,
I dragged. Well, it's interesting that you say meet me
at midnight. You understood that it was Taylor immediately. This
is this is the period that I meant to put

(23:45):
on the end of my thought earlier, which is Ali Allison.
This is Taylor singing about Taylor and vice versa, and
therefore it is the middle ground. It is collapsing the
binary into the middle name, which is Allison. Yeah, are
you ready to say that Miss big girl who we

(24:06):
meet in the anti Hero video is big Al. That's
big Al. You gave her the name Tad for me
for me, it's all caps like the wind. Hey, I
don't think the girl is Ali. Ali is Ali is
the person with the Zippo lighter. Damn. Ali is like

(24:30):
I'm peering into the plasma. I'm peering into this really,
because if you can't touch fire right, it's absolutely can't
get burnt, getned lyric from like Red Yeah, that's definitely
Red era, but it's like that's Ali. Ali is someone
who is like, I Am everything everywhere, all at once.

(24:53):
Shout out to MICHELLEO and the Daniels. Let's just make
sure that we constantly keep their name in the conversation.
One directed episodes or one episode of North Queens. Let's
bring it back to that. Thank you. Let's move on,
speaking of excellence, Maroon Baby, the way we moved from

(25:14):
Lavender this, Can I say when an album gives colors,
I can really see that and I can really you're
not color blind anymore? No, this album actually cured my
color blindness. And can I say maroon is actually a
tough color for me because everyone, I'm sorry, I mean
the raised, It's just I never know if what I'm

(25:35):
seeing is actually maroon. In fact, last night I really
wanted to wear a Maroon shirt because I knew I
was going to be around some Swifties at the party
I was at, and I really have a hard time
with that color. I often think maroon is. I think
brown is sometimes brown, purple, red. It's a really tough
color for me. But when I heard this song, I

(25:56):
opened my eyes for really, I think the first time,
and some roon and bowen. I went out yesterday and
I bought a Maroon shirt. Congratulations, thank you, sitting that
that is so powerful to me, that my friend who
has been afflicted with color blindness, this whole life goes.
I bought a Maroon shirt. Yeah, one of the vaguest

(26:18):
colors there is. And now my color blindness is just
a memory, Wick Wick, the memory. M that's a real
fucking legacy to leave. Can you get out of here? No? No, no,
not absolutely not to talk about Maroon. I mean, my

(26:40):
thing with Maroon is it's just like it's giving me, Lord,
it's giving me pure heroine earra Lord, which is really
my favorite Lord, to be honest with you, when I
first experienced her, like no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no,
non me, she's digging in. I'm just like everything about
this song is just rich, just like the color sonically,
this matches what's happening lyrically in a very full, complete

(27:01):
way to me, the definition of a vibe. Okay, And
when you said you texted me this is if Dress
exploded into a regular album, And honestly, Dress, to me
is a highlight of one of my favorite Taylor albums
reputation or should I say Taylor and to watch Dress explode,
to watch that Seed become this garden, as you said

(27:23):
on Instagram story, like a fucking poet. You said that, Taylor,
I really, really really I heard you say that, and
I was like, God, damn it, what a time to
be alive. I love this vibe. Maroon is in my
top five. It is of all Taylor, of oh No,

(27:44):
of this album. I'm not ready. I can't like. But
you're saying Dress. I know for a fact that Dress
is one of your favorites. It is in the whole
of and if Maroon is sort of like this sort
of evolved or maybe Atter really the sibling of Dress,
I feel like it really has a shot at landing it.

(28:07):
It does because Dress is definitely in my top twenty
of all time. I'll say that it's definitely in my
top twenty, like it makes it makes the greatest hits,
non single version like deluxe album for me, like on
Taylor's if I had to compile everything, I think it
says it clearly is important, like in terms of her discography,
because it is. It is really like a basis for

(28:30):
what happened with this album. I love Maroon, I love
that you love Maroon. I love Maroon, and I this
might segue perfectly into the next track. The album made
sense for me once you got to Anti Hero. Anti
Hero made Lavender Hays in Maroon work for me. Does

(28:50):
that make sense? I'm I love that we can disagree
in this way. Maroon was is the bridge or is
the ramp up to I think the thesis of the album,
which is Anti Hero. But I'm happy Anti Hero comes
in the three spot, you know what I mean. I
feel like it would have been tough to open up
with Anti Hero because it's just so it's just such

(29:12):
a moment, like, okay, so get this, let's just play
baseball for a second. In a in a lineup, you
don't put your strongest girl first. You put the girl
who's gonna get you on base first, who can steal
some bases and make sure that we get her home.
Miss number three, three and four are really your power hitters. Okay,
So for Anti Hero to come out doing what it
does in the three spot, that's giving baseball down. It's

(29:36):
giving most Valuable Player vibes, it's giving the Silver Slugger,
It's giving Don't worry, girls, we're scoring runs on tonight
because I'm up at bat because Anti Hero and Snow
on the Beach are three and four and they're gonna
knock it out of the park. Anti Hero is her
best lyrics maybe ever. I simply, like I said before,

(29:59):
self Consciousness anxiety album, and it's such a specific thank God,
Like I mean, just like this is one that I
cannot stop listening to and to see the video. I
texted you. I was like, she is now. I mean,
now we're actually visualizing Taylor and Taylor and I love it.
I mean, just like the analysis here of self. I

(30:20):
have to take my hat off. Your hat is on.
You don't have to take still on. But my hair
is a mess right now. But you don't want to
see it. That's okay, don't worry. I love you at
any hair. That's a real fucking legacy to leave. It's
a real fucking legacy. Now, God, she was able to
capture this, which is very I'm gonna say, Kate Bush

(30:49):
like that is like such a I'm never gonna say,
like I want guard, but it's very like like like
it's just very like something she really went for, something
she hasn't done before. I think the Anti Hero is
kind of a standout, and like her whole discography because
it just yeah, it's expansive and tight at the same time.

(31:11):
And also for nothing, yes, and also to to endeavor
to write a song that's going to do all of
the work it's doing, it better be good, you know
what I mean? Like, and also like I just I
don't know, I'm just obsessed, especially nowadays that a song
this good is a Billboard Hot one hit if we're
to look at the cannon of songs in the past
couple of years, just because of the way music pops

(31:32):
off with charts wise, like lately, you don't always get, like,
you know, actual important music being number one because it's
like I don't know the TikTok of it all, etcetera.
But this just like feels I feel grateful for it. Well,
I think Taylor is also she's not writing for TikTok,
but she knows that it's this force in music now,

(31:54):
and she goes and she understands that she enjoys being
on it. Obviously, and she's who knows what her f
y p is, but she's she understands how things get surfaced,
and she understands what makes certain songs take off on it.
So I have a suspicion that she goes, what is
a lyric that lends itself to like a TikTok thing,

(32:18):
it's me High, I'm the problem. It's me, And then
like people feeling exactly, you know immediately that that would
I was like, okay, well that's going to be in
a few hours, that's going to be the only thing
you see on TikTok on The problem is Me on
Holy found Dead on Holy was the only song on
TikTok that and the Beyonce challenge that's fit and like

(32:40):
now it's like you put on TikTok, it's only it's
me High, I'm the problem. It's me. I was gonna
compared to it like bad Habit by Steve Lacy, which
again like number one great song, but it's like a
perfect like way for anyone to be like, what's my
bad habit this? And let me let me put that
truck on it for Auntie here, it's like, what's my

(33:01):
problematic thing about myself that I'm gonna like display and
go to the world and it's cute, it's innocent where
you can get dark with it. You can like you
can kind of go any direction. And I don't know,
I feel like Taylor She's never gonna like sacrifice herself
to a social media platform in that way, Like she
will always be about the songwriting, like the story will

(33:23):
always do the work in her music. But like I
think she knows how to like dial it up just
enough for her to be like this is gonna fucking explode.
I mean it also happens like again and again and
again on the album where it just feels like and
that's kind of always been She's always had these like
little turns of phrase and like funny, little weird specific
things she said that would pop off. But like you know,

(33:43):
you can literally see in your mind's eye, how many
girls are gonna do Lally. I've been dressing for revenge
and look like a fucking stunning home, you know what
I mean, Like I just my hats are off, like
honestly anti hero. I also love the video and I
love when she sat on the roof with herself that
was giving me fly Ryland vibes um lost coaches all

(34:05):
over this album. Say that. And I said to you,
I was like, I think you need to text her
girl and say that. We saw Taylor and Taylor in
the video. We saw it, and we know that she's
aware of the binary. Now, so is this a is
this a lost Culch album? She did not text me back?
You texted her? I texted her. I did, and I
think maybe she she's busy. It's busy. She's busy. She's

(34:26):
gonna get back. She's gonna get back. But um, I said,
I'm just gonna say, I'm choosing to believe that Burbig
says Tay Taylor Taylor in the video. And also, Matt
and I have decided that Giant You is named Tay.
And I don't know if she'll see it, but she's
gonna see it. Honestly. She know she's getting so many texts.

(34:48):
You know that. Wow. Can you imagine what Taylor swift
phone is like when she when maybe she puts it away.
I don't think so. I don't think so. Can I
tell you she's looking at her phone and that's okay,
and she and she should She's worked hard. Now let's
move on on the beach. On the beach, Girl Girl,

(35:09):
this one. First of all, weird but fucking beautiful. My
girl's cursing on this album. Let's talk about the curse thing.
We hear fucking with a hard c K, you know
what I mean, like really digging into my favorite way
I hear people say the word fuck, like fucking beautiful.
You really like gave you that U c K energy

(35:30):
As much as being made about the history of the cursing,
and I will say and admit that it has always
kind of thrown me off, just for a micro second
until maybe Midnight's where I'm like, she's she's got it.
It is not getting in the way of my listening
experience because even on the one I'm like, oh, I'm

(35:52):
on some new ship, like okay, let me just get back,
let me just get back into this. But I'm teetering
just a little on the balance beam. And now I go,
good for her. Yeah, now we say, thirty two year
old woman who I believe curses, but I feel like
I'm with you. But every step of the way, by
the way, I guess what you're saying, it's like when

(36:13):
you're it's been her, it's been part of her journey. Yeah. Literally,
it's gonna be like when Ellie says to you one day, yeah,
I'm dating this guy. You're gonna be like, you don't
say that. And it's not fair for us to like
think of Taylor Swift that way, honey, we don't. We
should never gate keep Taylor from of all things language.
Are you fucking crazy? Who do we think we are?

(36:34):
She literally on a meta level, she says the word
slur on this album. When she said later on in
the album, you were doing lines, I was like, tell her,
where is the pre name? What you were doing lines?
Maybe I'll say this for my don't think so, honey.
But everybody on Twitter, especially gay Twitter, saying that she's

(36:56):
she did poppers in the studio. I'm like, no, how
brand new is that thought? Way to go? Everybody, Well,
I go, it's not a poppers album. No, I will
say it is a funk album though it to me,
it's a funk album. It's a fun album. It's not
it's not poppers at the club. Let's say no, And
like everyone's going this is kind of meane this is poppers.

(37:16):
I'm like, can we just leave the only drug that's
referenced is cocaine. Maybe she's doing lines of K. I
don't know, but like it's a lot of K. It's
a lot of K. And the nasal spray is now
what's in fashion. Actually, I recently encountered the nasal spray
and I do think it's a game change. It's it's efficient,
it's very efficient. Yeah, I'm sure she'd be proud of

(37:37):
us for using snow on the beach to transition into
this nose drug land. But what do you make what
do you make it? The Lawna the Lawna feature, because
it is. I loved it. To me, The Lawna feature
was giving atmosphere in the same way that like the
Dicky checks were we're giving it on soon, you'll get better,
you know what I mean, Like and Maaron Morris giving
it on you all over me. You know, it's like
so good. But everyone's like she funked over Launa. No, no, no.

(38:00):
I feel like Laana probably was even preferring to be
an ambient force on the track. It's also like, can
you be fucked over when you're on a track that's
now going to be number four on the Hot one
just from being on there? You went and hung out
in the studio with Taylor Swift. You gave ambiance and
energy and atmosphere because she was inspired by what you do.
Taylor Swift said that she believes Lana del Rey is

(38:22):
one of the greatest artists of our time. This came
from the horse's mouth, and that she was so honest
to be able to work with her on this. Like
obviously Taylor has been inspired by Laana vibes, like let's
let's be real, Like I mean, Lana's huge, Lord is huge.
Like there's other like little references here and there like
that have been there since the beginning of her career,
but like they're big influences in terms of her move

(38:43):
towards the type of music. So I thought it was
actually fucking kind of rad that Lana was on this
track because it says, it says to people that are
like ash, she's just making a lot of music. It's like, no, Mama,
I have actually mother Teresa's blessing. She's here on the track.
She's giving atmosphere, So shut up. I think this sort
of is the full circle and too wild. It's dreams

(39:06):
like you wrote a lot of song and for I
guess years now people are like, she's writing too much lunch,
She's just kind of cribbing Laana. But now it's like no, no, no,
I get like people ripping the feeling that there's a
lot of reference in the Let's get out of this
how I I understand why people feel that, But then
like the rest of the song and the energy of

(39:28):
the song is so Taylor Swift like that, And then
I'm like, I don't that was not fair. I think
for people to be like that, but I disagree to
that bridge. I'm sorry. I'm thinking about all the streams
were getting. The streams is my number one of all time.
It's it still stands but um but but yeah, so
on the Beach, I just love the way that the
chorus ends like snow on the beach, Like I just

(39:50):
love that, like like weird. It's like very weird and downward.
It's like very sultry. It's it's very evocative like and yeah,
I mean the weird but fucking beautiful again, Like I
can't wait to see the girls tick top that one.
I might do. Yeah, why not, let's move on. You're
on your own, kid, This one's getting lost in It's

(40:11):
a gem because you know why. I think people are
feeling confused because they're like, this is not a track five.
And at first I agree very much. I was like, this,
this doesn't sound like a track five. It's not like
it's not her spilling her guts in that way that
we're accustomed to at this point in her albums. But
I think it's a track five with distance. I think
it's her. It's very much like um the Lucky One

(40:34):
of Red. It's like her sort of from a different
point of view, singing about someone who is going through
a very transformative time in their life. For me, this
was very specifically about her. Oh absolutely, it is about her,
But I think it's her like looking back on herself.
I think maybe it's like national era, like which you

(40:56):
just moved there, or just like definitely a time in
her career in life when she was like succumbing to
whatever pressure she felt from the industry. Yeah, to me,
this is about that thing of you felt it was
gonna be one thing and now it's another. And also
wherever you go, there you are, you know what I mean?
Like that those are the vibes for me. Lyrically with this,
I mean scanning the room of better bodies just to

(41:18):
find out that my dream wasn't rare like whatever. That
that that I mean, that to me is just like
that's that's that's for real, because honest, she's this is
her honesty's own song, very much so. And I also
think it's a perfect track five for midnights because it's
I'm up thinking about this. The whole thing is like
basically one long track five already, and so why not

(41:41):
like give it a little accent in that spot where
you go, this is something a little bit different than
what you're used to. That's my theory. Yeah, I would agree,
And I think it's just watching this one get lost
in the conversation. I think it's because any track five
is going to have a high bar or people are
gonna feel like they want to be wowed by it
by the time it's over. And I think because it's

(42:02):
it's been preceded by these these tracks like an anti
hero like feels like on another album, maybe that's the
track five, but then we have this one. And I
just also musically, I really really like it. It's just
it's getting lost, and I think it's going to be
a grower for people. And I think by the time
she plays this in the Midnight Stadium tour, We're gonna
we're all gonna be singing every word, you know. I

(42:31):
don't think if this means anything, but I feel like
I was sort of taken by the fact that there's
not much guitar, almost no guitar on the thirteen tracks
on the Core Midnight's Interesting album, except for I Think
You're on Your Own Kid, where it's like like it's
but it's just like not that many chords, Like the
progression is just like one note for the most part,

(42:55):
and as in like it's one like it's just her yes,
one note, um, And so I think that's just it's
a really I think she knows to like switch it
up at this point in her career for album ten.
It's like, let me actually do something else. I like,
I love it so much, no notes coming from me
on Your On your Own Kid. I just think we
need to, you know, have some respect for it. I

(43:16):
really do. Now let's get to this is a really
important one. This is I love Midnight Rain. I love
Midnight Rain. Mm hmm. First listen, I was like, this
is this is a huge one for me. I love
the in the like octave jump like man the same.

(43:38):
I just I love that ship. The choice to modulate
it down for the first two times you hear that
chorus God first of all to me say, imagen is
all over this album. M that's that's also a huge influence. Clearly, clearly,
And did you readers, did Matt Rodder's not call it

(44:01):
when he said I'm expecting death cab postal service. I
don't know what to say esthetic you are a seer,
you are I don't want to vision I literally this
is chaos magic because I didn't. I didn't even like, honestly,
it hasn't even been top of mind because I'm not
thinking about like me being right this ship. I'm just

(44:21):
enjoying it. But I was right, and it literally gave
the vibes that I said I was going to give.
And I was texting with friends about it and they
were like, they screenshot at early texts, being like, how
did you know when when you said the death cab thing, Like,
how did you know? I was like, bitch, bitch, I
feel I'm Taylor. I really do. I sometimes like I
feel I'm Taylor. I feel that way too about you

(44:41):
fucking love this song and I literally like it's it's
just like you think, like in the in this middle
section of the album, like all right, now, are these
the ones that are signed up sort of hanging out
here because they're the ones that like ostensibly like maybe
we're not loving as much like this it never drops
for me, like Midnight Rain and then into Question. I
FU love Question. I think, thank God for this conversation

(45:03):
because I'm realizing the more we talk about it, the
more I love it. Because I will say, even after
day one, I was like, I don't know where to
place this album in the in the great ranking. Yeah,
um wow. But Midnight right into Question, which is like
where you turn the damn vinyl around on side B,

(45:24):
A great little schism, a great break in the progression
of this album and the story it's trying to tell.
It's not even it's telling the story I think as
an album, but I think it's also just like vignettes.
It's like in a similar way to folklore and everymore,
like it's just little stories and thematically linked by this thing.
But it's I think it's a stronger theme than those

(45:46):
you know what's funny too, Like so when when I
first heard this album was being announced. I had heard
this weird random rumor that what was supposed to happen
this year was that the rerelease was supposed to happen
this year, and then I think she ran into some
maybe legal stuff or like something happened with it where
she pivoted, and then it was gonna be the whatever
album it was. And then when I heard it was
Midnights and it was a concept album or was presented

(46:08):
as a concept album, I almost thought to myself, is
this going to be songs from the entire span of
her career that she's going to repurpose and like make
into like, you know, feel new. I thought maybe it
was it a concept album that way, like and that
she was literally reaching back throughout her life. But like
lo and behold, like I'm so happy that and she

(46:28):
has said it herself, she has debunked the rumor like
this is all new work. She has said that. But
like that I think I'm really happy about because she
has the like peace of mind and also ability to
look back on the things that she's gone through and
like also assessed where she was so that it doesn't
feel like necessarily you know, so it doesn't feel super

(46:50):
super Taylor in the lyrics. It feels Taylor in the
lyrics with Taylor energy because she's had the time in
the space. But still the things that she's singing about
you can tell still real, still probably keep her up.
I mean, you know, like by the by the time
we get to what it could have shout, I'll have
more to say about this. But like, there are certain
things that you don't ever really come to terms with,

(47:15):
And it feels like there are certain things in her
life that like pop up and she drops things like
you know, her age when she is talking about a
certain thing or you know, easter eggs for Tailor fans,
that like only we would know that we know exactly
where to place this in terms of her emotional and
public life, so that we can sort of have a
better glimpse in. But I'm really happy that she wrote
new work about things that she's gone through in her

(47:37):
life and not like reached back and like it didn't
feel vaulty, you know what I mean. I get what
you're saying. Totally, no shade to the Vault tracks ever,
never ever, but they're Vault tracks. But they're Vault tracks.
They were not the front facing works that like she
like initially released and so like that's its own little narrative. Anyway,

(48:00):
night Rain. I mean, I really don't know what to
say other than I love it perfect, I mean question perfect.
That's just fun. And also the thing about being kissed
in a crowded room with all your friends, I was like,
you better go off tailor and explain a situation that
you and very few people. Now have you ever been
in a crowded room and someone kisses you and everyone's
making funny without a clap fifteen seconds later? They're relatable, Queen.

(48:25):
I can't tell you're saying that is relatable, but okay,
for me, the only way I related to this, and
I'm going to get a little honest zone is like
it's like I get I get a little embarrassed anytime
I'm like making out with someone's club and then you're
you're you went with your friends and they're all going,
oh my god, who is going with? I know? And

(48:46):
sometimes they even see you do it and they yell out,
someone's not discerning, who has done that? You did that
to me on New Year's Eve, bitch, when New Years
in Mexico City, I made out with that guy and
you said someone's not discerning. I didn't say that. I
could I make that up. I'm so sorry. That's so awful,

(49:11):
and I'm so sorry, but Bohen, I'm really not that discerning.
I thought it was funny, and I also thought I
brought it up to you. I have such amnesia about
this ship. That is so mean. I'm a mean, I'm
a bit you were being a fun bitch. And also
in the grand scheme, it didn't really matter, but I
did remember it, and I did think to myself, like,

(49:31):
could I could make an issue of this, But I'm
an issue. Okay, you call no, no, no, that's not
what I meant. I just meant because I'm certainly not discerning.
You all know this to be true, and and you
have been see. That is the difference between you and
I is anytime I am with someone that who does

(49:55):
not meet your standard, tell me. You tell me in
a very clear, thoughtful way, and I might do it
in a way to you that is just vitriol Taylor,
and I'm more Taylor in that regard. I'm sorry. You
don't have to apologize to me, ever, I thought ultimately,

(50:15):
I okay, well anyway, but okay, so so so then
the thing that I guess we don't relate to is
the fifteen seconds later they're all clapping to like what
what happened in those fifteen seconds? I wonder? I think
probably that you know, it's that moment of like you
kissed someone at a party or whatever, and then like
they go away, and then you turn to your friends
and they're like what, and then you go, girl, I
don't know, And in that fifteen seconds, everyone's like, oh

(50:36):
my god, isn't life funny? And then everyone's clapping like this,
We're all clapping for the situation and the way we'll
look back on it later and then all can take
place in fifteen seconds. A beautiful time capsule, a beautiful period.
Shall we talk about vigilante ship? Yes? And I am
still on a journey with this one. I like that

(50:58):
she kind of has like a Billie Eilish song, like
an FKA Twigs early FKA Twigs type song. I feel
like this is peaked Taylor in the album period. Yeah.
To me, this is this is like a reputation track.
This to me is like more blatantly I can see
on another album for me, if if there was a
one that I was on the longest journey with it

(51:19):
was this one. But then there is some ship here
that I really really really like. I mean, I like
like the fucking line about the doing lines like it's
essentially like she will never take her photoph scooter bronze neck,
and also and why should she know she she shouldn't.
And also it sort of connects later to Karma Tube,
which because because you can tell Scooter is one of

(51:39):
those things she will never fully let go love it,
and she probably will make music about this forever no
matter where she stands on or how she views it.
It feels like we're always going to get content about
this because it was a betrayal on a scale that
needed to be and in a weird way, like she
made it public explicitly in a way that that truly

(52:01):
really bothered her. And then to hear her, you know,
talk about his white collar crimes because he really is
like a flop. Yeah, I I respect it so much
from her, because this is someone who values work and
her art so much that if you come after that,
she will kill you. Cad I drawn so sharp to

(52:22):
could kill him. Man, I'm gonna bring in Mandy Moore
into this conversation because she gives a line reading in
Tangled that I think is so impactful and I don't
know why I'm thinking about this. I need to hear it.
It's at the very end when Mother Gothel played by
the incredible Dona Murphy, it's actually about to kill Eugene.
She's about to kill Zachary Levi's character, and then Rapunzel

(52:46):
is begging Mother Gothel to not kill him, and then
she goes, but if you kill him, then I will
never stop trying to run away from you. Wow. And
I'm like, Dad, oh my god, I have do you
really well? Mandy's vocal performance and that was absolutely stunning, stunning,
Oh my god, can we talk everything? Finally feeling that's

(53:08):
when my voice is so. I've been partying a lot,
so I'm not going to be singing, certainly not belting
out tunes from Tangled the Heart amount can ever sing
Sondheim found Dad. But Mandy with that line reminds me
of m Taylor with Scooter. It's like she will never
stop coming for this man. Now her foot is on

(53:30):
his neck forever. We respect the jewels. I love the
jeweled to me, like the first time I listened to it,
I was like, Bejeweled really stands out fun, really fun.
It's I think it's like the closest thing to like
club bangery that we have on the album. Right, Is
that fair to say? Yeah, I would throw this one

(53:52):
back to almost It's very like, you know, you know what,
I'm having fun tonight? Is this the one where she's
looking by the way I'm going out tonight? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I love it. I love it perfect She's throwing this
one over her shoulder. I love it. I love it.
Oh my god, we may have to move faster because
then we're we're doing doing it, really digging into labyrinth.

(54:13):
It's giving vibes, it's giving a it's giving taking a breath,
it's giving that point in the album where we're just like, okay, now,
let's it's a cool down, you know what I mean,
let's stretch before we kind of do the home stretch.
I really really really like, oh oh none in yeah,

(54:36):
m hmmm, Yeah, it's really good. There's just there's a
lot you know what this gives treacherous in a way.
I was just gonna say, wow, the way my sister understands,
it's so like you self surrender, You surrender to the
thing that you're already going through. And yeah, I'm obsessed
with that as a concept when Taylor writes about it, well,

(54:59):
because that emotion is so core and Taylor this thing
of like being at the precipice of a big emotional
decision and deciding to take the leap, that is so
her and so like, it's nice to have a spiritual
big sister to Treacherous now in this way, because you know,
in all of these ways we've heard Taylor update herself
and like call back to herself. But also it's sort

(55:20):
of that same idea of wherever you go, there you
are like, she's still that same girl, but now we
get to hear her express that in such an interesting
way from Treacherous to Labyrinth. I mean, there's a dissertation there.
I wonder if they're teaching it in that Taylor Swift
songwriting college course that exists. Can we just do one
day in that class where we get to lead. I

(55:40):
would like to go. I would like to go in,
and honestly, I want to do two days. I want
to go one day where we go sit in on
a class, and then the second day where we lecture. Well, no,
I want to do lecture one day, and then I
want to literally t a god, what do you call
it's the class after the lecture? What a coloquium recitation?

(56:01):
I want to do the lecture, and then I want
to do the recitation where it's smaller groups and you
and I, you and I split the class in two
and we each lead a smaller recitation where we all
like discuss, like just like a little discussion. I'm sad
that we're split up. I I think we what what
do you mean? I don't want to. I don't want
you to be over there teaching with them and me
over there teaching with them. You're gonna have the funner group.

(56:23):
I don't think. So. You're the more everyone I wish
I were. Do you know they won't say that, Yes,
they will. Yeah, I think I don't think you understand
that you are. You are the shining Star. Karma is
the next song on the album, And don't you feel
that people are gravitating towards this one? Like it feels

(56:44):
like the energy is with Karma. Do you understand the
backstory behind this? No? So there is a theory that
October Taylor Swift six was gonna be um an album

(57:04):
called Karma. Correct, Oh yes, yes, I did hear about this, Yes,
And it got tossed because her public image was in
danger because because of the whole like you know, Kim tape.
So then they had to scrap most of it, and
I'm sure some of the songs kind of got sprinkled
throughout lover and reputation, maybe even folklore and evermore, but doubtful.

(57:27):
But Karma was supposed to be the sixth album and
then yeah, and then they had to like sort of
push the calendar like because it was just every two
years in October that was the release window. And in
some way, releasing this album in October two is like
her like getting back to that timeline, the original timeline
and October two, Taylor Swift twelve thousand days old. What

(57:52):
do you think she knows that? Do you think that's intentional?
I don't know, but it is intentional that it's also
Kim's birthday. There's a lot of closed loops here, Okay,
I love it, And with Karma, I feel like it
is closing the loop on that in a way where
it is oh God, a song that was meant to
be on that album, I think because I feel like
Karma is a little bit of a departure because like

(58:13):
Karmen is my boyfriends, my boyfriend, Like, here's the god
I love it, doesn't it feel kind of like it
kind of stands out a little bit, and even sticking
out a little bit, you want to know what it's more, um,
because we've also we we've heard her talk about this
a little bit in the album already, and and vibe wise,

(58:33):
it is a little bit more. It is a little
bit more fun and like more intentionally like you know,
like I feel like I'm like, you know, skipping down
the road when I but just this idea like I
love what I Love is like the lyric rub against
the type of song it is because it is like
a fun pop song that's probably the most straight up
pop song on the album. I would say maybe until
we until later when we get to my truly my

(58:54):
favorite song, which we haven't yet spoken about. But um,
I feel like to end this song with the idea
of Karma's a relaxing thought like that she's really letting
us into the darkness there because she's like, you know what, actually,
maybe this doesn't make me a good person. And you
can judge me if you want, but it actually makes

(59:14):
me feel good to know that Karma will get these people, Like, no,
these people are not going to get away with this ship,
you know what I mean. And here we are sitting
here this week and Kanye is there's there's no coming back.
It's I mean, he's he's completely done, and it is
it's now crossed over whatever line you were waiting at

(59:37):
to cross, it's crossed. Like not to even give him
any more space on this, but like I'm sure everyone knows,
like what he's been saying, the fucking anti Semitics should
he's been saying, he's a complete maniac and a monster
and if he needs help, he needs to go get
it outside of the public guy, because unfortunately people are
still fucking listening and it's sick and he's bad for
the world and Karma got him. Period. The closed loop here,

(01:00:02):
I think is really apparent. Yeah again, I'll say, just
on a lot of levels. And there is some chatter
about how like why is she still singing about her grudges?
And I think it's just like part of it. I
think you have to embrace that as part of her

(01:00:22):
like musical motif. There's something about her that's a little vindictive.
And I also think that she she would not hesitate
to say that. I mean, she's admitting to it here,
like she says, Karma's are relaxing thought. I am relaxed.
I am at ease thinking of you, someone who's hurt
me being in pain. You know what I mean? That is,

(01:00:43):
that is vindictive anthem, and that is something that non
a yone would admit to, you know what I mean,
And especially like in this fun, little cute song sonically,
you know what I mean, It's just it's almost really
interesting that that thought, which is really deep dark thought,
comes in this like song. She's like Scoo's in her

(01:01:04):
head voice. You know what I mean. I just love it.
I know, I know it's way more interesting than you think. Okay, um,
next song, Sweet Nothing, I'm obsessed. It's the closest aesthetic
match to like the promo materials of this album leading
up to seventies folcusing a songwriter Judy Still, you know,

(01:01:27):
Carol King, like Lauren Eiro, that kind of thing. It's
so sweet. It's just it's beautiful, and I mean Mr
William Bowery appears on this one. Yes, yes, And if
that's him playing the piano, you better go off that
that he's electric keyboard you very yeah, um oh the
electric keyboard. Yes, whatever, that's what I meant. Whatever, Yeah,
you know, totally totally. I wasn't correcting. Um, it was no, no, no,

(01:01:48):
sweet nothing. And then this is just can't fire give.
It's giving, it's giving. We're writing this song and we're
having fun and we had a great time writing it,
and it's sweet and it's just like a nice, little,
sweet little offering. I just love it. I'm I love
sweet nothing. It's a it's very um New Year's Day

(01:02:09):
without like the circumstance around it. You know, it's just
like it's just like a mundane beauty. It's not like
it's not it's not even like the morning after a party.
It's just this is our everyday life. And I also
love that it's so clearly like a collaboration between them
that then leads into Mastermind, which is about like the

(01:02:29):
totality of the courtship. Yeah, what a great closure the
way that it goes into Mastermind, just like and also
how plainly it ends like it just like and now
your mind, Like I just I think, Yeah, it's that
thing of like when you see someone or you feel
like that pulled towards someone, and like you know, she's

(01:02:52):
saying like yeah, I say, I'm calculated, but guess what,
Like it actually got me quite the prize at the
end of the day. Someone I've been with for like
six years out at this point. And like the fact
that she she sounds relaxed on this track, you know
what I mean, Like it's like the track drives, but
she sounds like vocally she sounds very happy and relaxed.
And I also want to compliment her vocals on on

(01:03:14):
on this album, she's really really really lived in And
I was talking to someone, my friend Darren, who said
he was he was missing some big vocal moments. But
for me, it's like the intention here, like especially like
um at the end of Anti Hero when she lets
it get really like ugly sounding, And I mean that,

(01:03:35):
and I mean that in like a in a complimentary way,
but like to me, there's so many colors to her
voice in this album, just as a lyricist and as
a vocalist, I think this is a peak. I think
she understands that her vocal singularity is that it's sharp.
She's a sharp voice as in not like it cuts through,

(01:03:57):
like not the accidentals it cuts through. And she doesn't
need to belt in order to make the impact. You know,
she doesn't need to do like the big vocal turns
in order to like get you to pay attention. You're
paying attention because she is like making a choice that
doesn't really go big on the sort of melody necessarily
even though she is this like incredible songwriter. I was

(01:04:19):
gonna say with like elaborate, it's like, um, she goes
like she's singing in the head boys, and then oh,
I felt like she she knows what she's yeah, like
leveraging in each thing. She's very accurate and resonant and
evocative in that way like she she and I think
that probably also does come with her being the songwriter,

(01:04:41):
is like she knows exactly where her voice is going
to fit into the structure of what she's doing to
make people feel a certain way. And also she she
knows where to place things totally, even calling back to
Anti Hera with the tell Us all this time, like
just like the atmosphere that that gives that in the
place in her voice that she uses she's really good
at creating atmosphere with her voice. That's what the whole

(01:05:02):
album is. That is a compliment I would give this
entire album is that it feels like, you know, there
is actually a real range there because it's almost like
two or three different people, you know what I mean,
Like when she's down here, it feels like one thing,
and then that it feels like another person, like and
it's almost just like oftentimes in the same song, and

(01:05:23):
especially in Anti Hero as well, you hear these different
people saying these different things. It's like, that's what makes
it interesting. Yeah, while we're talking about this, and as
we're ending the thirteen tracks, there's a lot being made
about how people can't tell the songs apart from each other,
how they all sort of blend together, and I feel
like that is also intentional. That is also like she's

(01:05:45):
creating like the closest thing to ambient music that she's
done folklon never more. I feel like maybe, but I
think those are supposed to be differentiated projects and each
song has its own sound. With men Nights, I feel
like she is going after something a patchwork of different
midnights in her life, as we know, and how there

(01:06:07):
should be some sonic threat kind of ties them all together,
you know. Yeah, I mean I think that's a very
easy thing to say about something that has a high expectator,
you know what I mean when when you turn something
on initially and you're like, oh, these sound the same,
or like this is this is more vibe, which I
think a lot of people were sort of saying, and
it was. I mean, of course it is a viby album,

(01:06:27):
but I I hear a little bit of like an
insult in that. To be honest with you, I can't
explain why. Um almost like she caved into doing what
all the girls are doing, which is like vibe music,
which if you really listen to this, like yeah, maybe
she is, maybe it's a viby album, but there's like
tons of peaks and valleys here. It's not you know
that sameness is not is not negative against that. But

(01:06:50):
my thing is like when you were listening to something
like right away and it's that event diese type album
and you need a pull, I just feel like that's
a very easy things and like we're not giving this
enough space because it's of the biggest album of the
year obviously, Like whenever she releases an album it is
or it's up there at least in the top three

(01:07:11):
of this year, and I feel like, you know, it's
just that's a little knee jerk for me, that that comment,
And I hope we've matured as like listeners in the
streaming era. I was telling all of us, like everybody, um,
because I think like we all sort of understood like
with the other biggest album of the year, Renaissance, it's

(01:07:33):
like this is this is dense, this is amazing. Let's
like really sink our teeth into us. Yea. I was
kind of soothed by the fact that there people were
not like jumping to a conclusion with Renaissance necessarily like
it was obviously well. I did hear that a lot,
though I did hear a lot of people being like
I wish I felt like, you know, the song's um

(01:07:55):
jumped out in different ways, like it wasn't just a
piece of collective work, which I actually think it's actually
strong in both regards, like you can turn that on
at the club and let it play and have a
great fucking night, but also like there and those skips,
but also those songs are all extremely cherry pick. Yeah,
you're each chair the ones that you want in the mood,
which is happening now you see people starting to like,

(01:08:17):
now that renaissance has been out for it's like people
are you know, there's there are tracks that people like,
like it's people are saying that less now that they've
had time to marinate, and and so I would say,
let's afford Taylor the same thing. I just think maybe
that is like the shift in the listening habit for
everybody and at least our generation where it's like, this
is gonna be the thing with all big albums going forward.
Is that like we're gonna have the poll first and

(01:08:39):
then it's gonna be a grower or it's not, and
then that's it's, it's whatever, it's it's sort of part
of it. Let's do the three M. So three AM
rolls around Eastern Standard time. Where you did you say

(01:09:00):
for it? I woke up the next day to your
Instagram story of a song called Paris and I go
this and I immediately immediately listened to Paris um saw
Dear Reader and my blood went cold. He has a track.
I was like, what, And again, we're not saying that,
like we wouldn't dare say that it's not it's not

(01:09:21):
a reference to us, but wow, what a thing to
wake up too for me, that's all. What a gift
for the readers and all of us like that. There's
a song called Dear Reader on an album that very
much explores the dichotomy of Taylor and Taylor literally is
all over this culture, is all over this album. She's

(01:09:42):
coming on. Taylor's coming on. She wants to do the pod. Taylor,
please come on the pod. We will give you the
best interview. Zane Low will fucking shake in his boots
after he listens to this interview that you, me and
Matt will have. I mean, this is an open invitation
for Taylor Swift to get on the podcast Last Cultures. Let'
just say two accepted two awards at the Lost Culturesta's

(01:10:03):
Culture Awards. Did not have to send in videos. Thank
you so much for doing that, Taylor Swift. We will
never thank you enough. That's a real fucking legacy to leave.
That's a real fucking legacy. Anyway, Um, okay, the Great
War enter Mr Desner, Enter, Mr Desner. I love. I
was a little bummed at first when I was like,
there's no Destner on this album Great War Lovely sort

(01:10:26):
of because he is on this track right, he's the
most three. What I mean to say is like if
we thought we were getting one of him. I remember
I was with Jared and he opened his phone and
immediately to the song credits and he we saw Aaron
Desner and we were like yes, we were like, okay,
So she was just holding this back a little bit.
But we are still collaborating with our new pal. Yes, yes, um,

(01:10:48):
great War, wonderful, Um. A lot of historical allegory here.
We love it. She likes her history. She's a history buff. Yeah,
she'll be telling you, oh my, what a mother whistle
um and dynasty like she she knows to like intentionally

(01:11:10):
dip her toe into like quote unquote for lack of
a better word, Americana, a p U S history, a
p U S history. You know, she got a five.
I would imagine um bigger than the whole sky. This
is a sweet, little, sad little song. And I people
are sort of speculating that it may be about a miscarriage,

(01:11:32):
that it may be about some sort of loss of
some kind, not necessarily her own. But of course we
see lately Taylor has been exploring the concept and really
it's been for longer than people think or say, but
definitely more vividly lately of writing from the perspective of others.
Um and I think this possibly could be that. But

(01:11:54):
what a lovely song. I mean, it really is just
so sweet, Sam Sanders and Powers we're talking about something
else on this episode of Into It where Sam quotes
Taylor and Mrs Americana and is like, Taylor says this
amazing thing or she like references this this, this, this
thing and about fame, which is that like you are
frozen as a woman, especially you're you're frozen at the

(01:12:19):
age that you were famous, that you become famous in right,
And And Sam is like, is that why like people
still sort of like talk about Taylor and think about
Taylor as this teenage girl. Is this why people are
having trouble moved like growing up with her or think
or like understanding her to be a woman, you know,
like a like an adult person. Um And then and

(01:12:41):
Powers goes, I think it's because she has not had
a child. The childless woman in America or in the
world is something that is uncomfortable for people. They don't
know what to make of a woman who does not
have a child, and so therefore she's even more locked
into teenage self hood to other people, like the persona

(01:13:02):
is sort of like snagged in that for better or worse.
And I don't know, this might be a little more
bit to tie into BIGG than the whole guy if
it is about in miscarriage, even if it's not her own.
But like I think she understands how that feeds into
the meaning of her now. I think that's really interesting. Yeah,
I mean tossing all the way back to Rohnan like
she's she's a great actress in her music. I mean,

(01:13:24):
like she really she really is. And this to me
like it might be a spiritual sister to that. I
mean in that it does feel like it's about something
heavy and specific and that that that's like something like
on the other side of the fence that you know
not to ask about. But the song is evocative and
I think could match up with anything, you know what
I mean. Like when I first listened to it, I

(01:13:45):
was like, this is about a loss of a relationship,
and then I feel like, no, I think it's it
might even be like Ray Shocky and like, you know,
this could be whatever. Obviously it might be something to her,
but I wonder if she'll ever comments on what this
is about. I would like to hear it. Yeah, but
if she wants to keep it private then and the
fact that it's at three, I am track, you know, like,
where is this existing in the file cabinets of her mind?

(01:14:08):
Totally okay, talk about Paris because I need to maybe
get on board with Paris because it's it's the one
that I glossed over. I don't know why you're kidding me.
First of all, I want to tell everyone I'm now
on TikTok and I was eventually able to figure out
my TikTok so but when I did alive last week
where I couldn't figure out how to make my TikTok
videos public, which is very Matt Rogers, very calling back

(01:14:30):
to when I thought my computer didn't make PDFs because
you had because I thought I had a porn virus
that made my computer unable to make PDFs. And I
was sort of experiencing that narrative the other day when
I couldn't get my tiktoks to go public, and I
was frustrated because I thought I was actually kind of slaying.
So the more I'm on TikTok, the more I sort
of realized, like, oh, this might not be good for me,
because I think it's eventually going to reveal who I am,

(01:14:51):
which is sort of like a basic little boy who
loves Taylor Swift. So I hear the song Paris, I
absolutely lose my fucking mind. I couldn't believe the rhyme
scheme of Paris and somewhere else. I loved that. Like
some people are taking issue with that, I think those
people should go to jail. I am so obsessed with

(01:15:12):
this song that I got on my TikTok and Bowen,
I did a humorless basic ass TikTok to Paris like
I was a gen z Ere. The comments are so funny.
The comments are like millennial jumped out, like okay, the
millennial Taylor. One person comments on my thing, I need

(01:15:33):
to see less white t fags on my on my
on my timeline, and I literally I almost respired. I
agree because I was so sick watching this TikTok that
I created. But the earnestness I felt it was because
of what this song did to me. I unapologetically keep
that TikTok up and also my transitions are fucking good,

(01:15:56):
so get get into it. This song has taken me
like out of who I am and brought me somewhere else.
The first verse it's so chaotic to me in the
best way and just the the way that it's so verbose,
and then the chorus just drops you on the song
like we're in Paris, like unless you sit and like

(01:16:19):
be in that new atmosphere. I'm like, come on, this
is a evocative pop song. This is what I love.
This is an emotional, evocative pop song. It is kind
of giving me Carly Ray in a in a way,
in a way like it's given me light, romantic, fun,
effervescent I would I would say, is the word, um,

(01:16:41):
I just I absolutely love it to me, like, this
is the song I keep listening to for me, It's
it's the super base of the album. It is that
bonus track that pops it is it is that that
girl on the back half that was revealed later that
we will remember this one and what a could have shot,
which we'll get to. But you gotta get on board

(01:17:02):
with Paris Bone because it's also an opportunity for us
to be really stupid singing it. I was gonna say,
before you you even said that part, before you invited
me in, I was like, I'm sold. You've never assused.
You said super base of the album, I said it,
and that was the beginning of our friend Chap And
when have you ever led me wrong? I love this song.

(01:17:22):
I am obsessed and I don't want this song to
get lost because again, like I don't think it is.
And I've been posting this song a lot and people
are being like, my favorite, yes, and we need this song,
And I was like, what puts this? I guess the
three I AM distinction, like whatever this was for her
that made it a three AM song. But I was like,

(01:17:43):
this because it's big, because it's big grand, and I
feel like there was too big for the first thirteen.
I was gonna say, like there was a choice to
kind of subdue the core album, which I respect. Yeah,
I got that. I got that, and I respect that.
This is this is sweeping, This is like whoa this

(01:18:03):
is you know what, it's giving state of grace. It's
like expansive in the way that it is, like it's up,
it's down, it's out. It's like you saying that it
takes you there. We were in Paris and you're there.
I believe that I see it. This is it's very
like New Romantics, which by the way, came on the

(01:18:24):
other day. I said, God damn, this is a good song,
a song and a half. She's a great actress in
that song. She's a great actress in that like it's
it's poker. He can't see it in my face, but
I'm about to play my ace, like, whoa, what did
you do there? Why did you do that to me?

(01:18:45):
And that's what I love about Paris, Like Paris this
first verse, yeah, your ex friends sister. I just love it.
And the outfits were terrible. I loved it. I was like,
first of all, it's giving sondheime in that the notes
are the emotion. Everybody laughed. It had to be sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:19:07):
it had to be sad. And I'm saying, Paris revolution,
friend revolution, That's how I feel about Paris. Wow, it
is actually you know, it is giving son died. I
said it, and I'll still say it. It is very
like it's not the same song obviously, but yeah, like
on their own behalf, it's very a lane stretch. It's

(01:19:28):
very okay, high in fidelity, love love love this one.
Destner is back and also just again, like it's it's weird,
like what would preoccupy her about this, you know, but
it's just again. I feel like this takes place outside
of herself as well, Yes yes, yes, yes, which I

(01:19:50):
love and makes it fun for a Destiner track too,
because it's like that's it feels like that's where she
really started exploring that, like writing from the perspectives of others,
Like this feels like that to be honest, totally, Um,
I am big, big, big into glitch. You have been
a glitch, stand that's been a glitch, But it's this

(01:20:13):
is maybe since like and I might be wrong on this,
but I feel like since sad, beautiful, tragic her most
textured vocal, you can hear the years on her in
a way that I love. Yeah, and also like you
can hear her like working things out, you know what

(01:20:33):
I mean. Like it's like like the way this doesn't
really make sense for me, like emotionally, why is this happening?
You know what I mean? Like it's and it's just
this to me, I feel like maybe you could have
been on the regular album. I agree, but I understand
why it's here because it's it's a complicated lyrical emotion,
and so I feel like it belongs on the three.
I am in that way absolutely, And like the guitar,

(01:20:57):
there's something really bold about the production on that, where
like the guitar is getting like dialed, it's being wiggled.
It's literally like it's it's not even like a vibrato
or anything. It's but there's something really anyvative about it.
Like if you really listen to the soundscape of this,
like it's really really cool. It's experimental and doesn't really

(01:21:19):
make sense but works. Yeah, totally, um okay what it
could have shout up, let's talk about this is a moment.
This is I mean, I damn sure would it never
dance with? When I heard that, I was like, how
dare she like that hook? The pain? I love it?

(01:21:46):
It really just it all pays off in the end,
the way the way it just built and built and
builds and builds, and you're like, damn ye, chrisms I
used to be honestly, And then when she takes it
up at the end into her her big register her,
I'm like, first of all, one of the great tailorisms
on this album that's like a timeless one. Is I

(01:22:07):
regrat you all that you all the time? First of all,
let's just say, let's call U Spacebay. This is about
John Mayor. This is about whatever trauma she experienced. Yes,
this is about however that formative relationship, whether it was
romantic sexual however. I mean, you can read Jessica Simpsons book.
She talks about the way this man works in detail.

(01:22:30):
You can listen to Dear John. I mean, there was
something that happened here at her age that didn't jibe,
which she I think still looks back on and it
is like, fuck, why did I let that person funk
with me like that? Because it messed me up? Like
and and also not for nothing. But when I say
it's like all too well, it's because that song and

(01:22:52):
its bigness about Jake and the way that she had
to return to it because of how big that relationship looms,
how large it looms in her life, and how emotionally
it's such a marker for her that she came out
with it and like ten minute ized it and like
gave it its moment. This song can't help but get
bigger and bigger and bigger as it goes, and I

(01:23:14):
think it might be the best song in this work,
Like Anti Hero is incredible. It makes sense for the album.
It is the single. It is the thesis statement what
it could have should have. This is like this would
exist on any album that she put out. This is
just like Capital t Capital asked Taylor Swift in this
album that stands on its own island, and I I

(01:23:37):
am thrilled that we got it. And the melodies the
core of the hooks. The song is made of hooks again,
like her voice is the ranges. There just might be
her rangingest song. It drives. By the end of it,
you're like, wow, I mean the thoughts she leaves you with,
like this is a song. This is a song. It's

(01:23:58):
the longest song on the album, yep. And it moves
in spite of that like it's um, you're right, like
I didn't think long enough about the John Mayory of
it all. And the reason it builds and it's fully
like unleashed, un bridled by the end is because it's
like she has been sitting on this. She's not like

(01:24:20):
really exercised it from her her mind in the in
like the thirteen years since it's happened. Oh my god, yep,
thirteen You know, I alright, just being personal. I dated
an older guy when I was nineteen, and it was
a formative relationship from me in positive and negative ways,

(01:24:40):
and I still talk about it in therapy, like and
when when someone gets you at that age, it's like
there's a before and and after. She says, I miss
who I used to be. It's that person that thought
like love and sex and romance all meant one thing.
And then you have a relationship where you realize like
there's so many layers to all of that, and I

(01:25:03):
wish you would have kept me wondering, you know what
I mean? Like, fuck, I hate that you are going
to be the person that is existing in my mind's
eye from now on forever when I think about who
I used to be and who I am regarding love
something that I fixated on and really care about and
want so badly, And now I've achieved, but I still

(01:25:25):
have you in my head. He still has real estate
in her mind. In a song that can't help but
be bigger than it even should be on this album
give Me Back My Girlhood of his mind first, like
it is that kind of says it all for you
and and if and if you can relate to it
in that way, I mean this, this one, this one

(01:25:48):
means a lot to me, to be honest with you,
like because you know, like and readers know, if you've
had that relationship where you gave the power up, you
understand like what it is and how you know that person,
like the person that delivers the first you know what
I mean, they will always be there and not for

(01:26:08):
not it's not for everyone that that results in happy
feelings or and it always results in at least complicated feelings.
And her still mulling over this, and she's like, the
pain was heaven. There's a compromise here because she understands that,
like it was enjoyable because it was the first and
it was this thing that like created the blueprint for

(01:26:30):
everything else going forward. Yeah, um, I keep talking about
this and powers interview with Sam Sanders, but it's it's
so you have to listen to it. Everyone should like it.
But she says, and this is where I disagree with her,
And Paris says that Taylor Swift is a super ego
of an artist, right like like her whole her work
is super ego. Her work is so okay between the
the ego and the super ego, like the it is

(01:26:51):
like all like the impulses. So it's what happens when
you have knee ruk reactions. Yes, yes, your super ego
is like the person who's trying to corral it all
into morality, and the ego is the one that like
is compromising, is going well, maybe there's a way to
have both impulses and the sort of inner morals that
you set with yourself trying to organize it, maybe even

(01:27:12):
for other people to totally. I think early on in
her career, up until I would say reputation, Taylor, Taylor
was all about. It was all about impulses, um conflict,
her interests superseding anyone else's. And I think with folklore
and evermore, that's when like the ego came in and

(01:27:35):
was like I have I can take some accountability for
my own stuff, you know, or even maybe lover. But
I think on what it could have showed it. It
is like so for it to be so passionate and
big and yet still like unsure of itself. I think
she she used to be an id artist first and
now I think she is ego. Now I think she's

(01:27:56):
someone who's like, m I need to refile, I need
to resort all of this stuff in my mind. Yeah,
you know what, there's also this genuine feeling I get
when I listened to what which is I'm piste off.
I even had to write this sign, you know what
I mean, Like I regret you all the time, Like
I just want to let you know, like you really
took me for a ride, and I wish I hadn't

(01:28:18):
gotten on it. But like this song will be what
I I'm left with and I'm leaving everyone with and
honestly like and not to not to be like cheering
on her, you know, toxic relationship at nineteen with this man,
But like I'm happy and happy forget this song. We
all hope, we all hope every person that's a creator

(01:28:40):
hopes that they can take what they've been through like
this and externalize it in a way that helps not
only them but everyone else. And and and like I
hope that she feels helped by writing this, Like I
hope that it gives her some closure to be able
to get this out because the dear John of it all,
I feel like, yes, she was externalizing, but that's is
also in because a little bit of that song is

(01:29:03):
I'm gonna get this guy. I'm gonna call it Dear John,
And I almost feel like there might even be a
little bit of self consciousness and embarrassment about how bald
that is. And now she's looking back and she's saying, like,
you made me feel and look stupid in so many ways,
even though Dear John is an incredible so you you
humiliated me the fact that I had to go where
it is. And also, let's face it, the entire thing

(01:29:24):
with Katie was really about John. Like that fucked Taylor
up to the point where it was like it spun
off into all different types of directions. But that's, you know,
not not to say he caused her trauma, but that's
what formative relationships do, you know what I mean? They

(01:29:45):
spin you out, they change you for a few years,
you know what I mean. Like it's very real, and
I think it's important to note that, like, let's just
keep it to John, like a confessional musician, singer, songwriter
who was very famous and so of horse. She's going
to spend the next thirteen years or however long playing

(01:30:06):
all this out publicly putting it in her songwriting, like
making some of her persona, which she is acutely aware
of the entire time she's working centering that persona on
this kind of wrong illness. It all makes sense. And
if you're one of those people who is not a
swift ee or as someone who is like a little

(01:30:27):
tired of like the rehashing, like I think, I think
it is just the human artistic way to do this
is for her to process this. Does that make sense
because because again, like you're not going to get clarity
on this type of thing soon afterwards, you know, you know,
like what she was able to put out was Dear John,
which was basically telling on him and letting people know

(01:30:50):
she was hurt. But this is years later, and this
is the song she's released, and it's clear that it
still sucks her up, because that is how powerful that
relation and chip is in your life a moment a moment.
And then I love that it's the second and last
track because she takes a breath and then gives us,
dear reader, here's what I've learned. Here's what I'm telling you.

(01:31:12):
Whether or not she's going back and telling herself in
the past, or she's letting people know for the future.
This is what I've learned. These are my notes, like
and the dear reader of it all, Like I mean,
she it's a love letter to us and to herself.
It is, Yes, it is, it is, it is. We
can't make too much of this except that it's a
wonderful song, wonderful closer. Never take advice from someone who's

(01:31:36):
falling apart. Wow, Like what a great pithy line or
not pithy, but it's like, it's it's pretty, it's saying
a lot. That sentence is saying so much. And that's Taylor,
that's Ali. That is out Okay are people I hope?
I hope. I'm not like stabbing in the dark with this.
Like I think Allison is a new persona is or
just a new identity through which we can understand. Taylor

(01:31:59):
Swift is this person who is finally like marrying Taylor
and Taylor together to become Taylor Allison Swift. Yeah, there
you go, Alison, Ali, Ali a l I an album
and a half literally truly, I love Midnights. I'm happy
to be in the Midnight's era. I don't know what

(01:32:21):
I'm doing in terms of where I'm ranking and the
grander scheme, but it's it's close to number one for me,
I mean just because of the way I feel like
it improves lyrically on the albums of hers that I love,
you know what I mean, Like I think, I think
if if reputation is my favorite vibe that she has
out there, like this is reputation but with incredible like
folklore evermore type lyrics where she actually became, you know,

(01:32:44):
the realized version of who she is as a songwriter.
And she was always brilliant because she was always really,
really really good at expressing. And so now you see,
like it's self expression and also self assessment in a
way that works as pop music and vibes, and it's
a funk album period period. Maybe it's time to move

(01:33:07):
on to I don't think so, honey, It's time to
move on to I don't think so, honey. I don't
think we can say much more than all of this.
I mean, we we have, we've enjoyed, we've licked it,
snorted it, fucked it, resuscitated it brought it back to life,
and we're being buried with it. This is I don't

(01:33:27):
think so, honey, it's where we take one minute to
real against something in culture that's pissing us the funk
off and something is and it's it's totally separate from Taylor.
I just have to say it, Okay, this is Matt Rodgers.
I don't think so many time starts now. I don't
think so, honey, in the mid term era. The amount
of emails that we get from these democratic politicians and
these organizations. I'm sorry that the other day I received
in one period, twelve emails from Val Demmings. I have

(01:33:53):
to tell you something. You need to cool it. This
can't possibly help, like to bother someone so so so
so so much, and also state literally every single subject
and it's like we're in trouble. We need help. Never
felt this bad. It's going badly, Matt. Like it's all

(01:34:14):
in all lower case, like there Ariana Grande albums. It's
like our songs. I'm just like Val. I actually had
to unsubscribe, and I did donate because I thought maybe
if I donate, it will like no, no, not attacked
me as much. It's still came. And it's everyone across
the board, the amount of desperation and how they're asking
for money, is not helping. It's making me really scared.

(01:34:35):
I don't think so, honey, And that's one minute. Um No,
there's there's no such thing as like feeling good about
I would say politicians, not even like I'm not I'm
not gonna say politics because obviously, but like, let me,
let's just say that, like thinking of politician is cool,
is like so dangerous that it's the reason why we're

(01:34:57):
in this fucking nightmare now anyway, like some sort of congressman.
You know what, I love it. I love that she
did that. I just the energy from these people is
so panicked and frenetic that it just it really, my
anxiety is through the roof, and I'm like, it's not
even Yeah, It's like it's like when you do like

(01:35:18):
a donation, Let's say you donate to a local candidate
in your distruct you get emails from fucking like Warnock
in Georgia. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's from politicians who, yeah,
sure need your donations. But it's crazy that I keep
getting Yeah that we all just keep from from every

(01:35:40):
corner of the country. It's like you're being and then
I'm like, where where did I sign up for this? One,
you know what I mean? Of course I want to
support and celebrate like everyone that's trying to take these
Republicans down, like I needed to happen. But the thing is,
just like I wish the energy if we could find
a way to make it seem already like a defeat.

(01:36:04):
I only ever get emails that are like it's going
really bad, and and then I I genuinely wonder if
that works on people, because because it got me to unsubscribe.
I donated, but I unsubscribed, And is that what they wanted?
What do you think is gonna happen when you send
me eleven I swear to God, eleven emails in one day.
I can't even see what's going on in my own life.

(01:36:25):
Every Like, literally, I'm missing things because the amount of
political donation emails I get are out of control. Now
we have Bowen Yangs, I don't think so honey. Are
you're ready girl, girl? I think I'm ready. This is
Bowen Yanks. I don't think so honey. As time starts now,

(01:36:46):
I don't think so honey. Us all moving on from
Charlie the self titled album by Charlie Pooth, I feel
like we have not as a listenership really admired, appreciated
this wonderful album, A tightly written and produced album from
a great talent that we cannot yet take for granted.

(01:37:08):
And Charlie Pooth, this man has earned our attention. I
mean it, He's written some of your favorite songs. You
need to give this the time. I'm talking to even
my sister Matt Rodgers, who has not really given this
guy a chance on his new album. It's but really
give the songs to listen. Um, well, I haven't listened

(01:37:29):
to the album yet. I listened to Midnights and Charlie
in the same day on the same flight, and both
were wonderful experiences. There is a place to let those
things co exist. You don't have to only listen to
Midnights this week. You don't have to only listen to
your favorite arts. You can't expand outwardly if you want
to listen to Charlie And that's one minute, and that's
a great advertisement for him. And honestly, here's the thing

(01:37:51):
about Charlie Pooth. With me, I always am so excited
to listen to what he's doing. And actually on TikTok
and like on Instagram, where he like makes his songs.
I think he's truly brilliant. I guess I'm just really
still waiting to hear like the song from him that
I really connect with, really you haven't found it yet,
not really, I mean, like it's but also I appreciate

(01:38:13):
who he is as an artist because there's like a
lot of natural like anxiety and like almost like a
d D energy and what he does that I think
really matches him as like a character, and I really
appreciate that. And I I have enjoyed tons of songs
that he's written for other people, I mean, but with him,
it's just like and I understand he's so great. I'm
just waiting to stand. I'm really waiting to stand. But

(01:38:35):
after I listen to this album, I will let you know,
and I'm open to it. You're waiting to stand, You're
not You're not engaging with the material. I know, I know,
But I'm just saying, like in the years that he's
been a thing, like none of them have like really
punched me in the gut, like I fucking love that song,
Like it just hasn't really happened for me yet. I'm
not saying it won't. Okay, empty cups. Attention, Um that

(01:38:58):
this this is this is old stuff by the way,
Um how long? I mean, it's it's really good, It's
really good. And then every every song on this new
album is a plus, A plus I mean. And also
let's not erase Megan Trainer major. Well, we end every
episode with the song. This has been a fabulous episode.
First of all, I just want to say now, but
I want us to go somewhere because it's two PM.

(01:39:18):
But we're gonna end every episode with a song. But
I want to say to my sister, we had a
fabulous episode. We had a fabulous episode. I was looking
forward to this all week and it did not disappoint
and you delivered, and you deliver. I I always want
to know what you have to say about culture, and
now you know it's true. Okay, what's the song somebody
to choose from? Like we were in Paris, we were

(01:39:49):
so where else? M hmmm, we were in Paris. To
listen to more. Make sure you listen to the three.
An addition of Midnight of Midnight by Alison m

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Hosts And Creators

Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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