The Britney Episode 2: Britney And More (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, It's Matt and I'm very excited to let
you know that my debut album, Have You Heard Of Christmas?
Is out Friday, November three. Stream it everywhere in anywhere
you do that and order the vinyl online now. I've
also got new merch and tickets to my tour at
www Dot Matt Rogersofficial dot com. I'm starting with six

(00:23):
shows at the Soho Theater in London from November thirteenth
through eighteenth, and then I'm all over the States and
Toronto starting December first in Philly and wrapping up December
twenty third in New York City. Again, check out www
Dot Matt Rogersofficial dot com for all the new music,
merch and tour info. Very exciting. It's officially Christmas and

(00:48):
now my gift to you a podcast. Look Marire, oh,
I see you my own go and look over there
is that culture? Yes? Goodnow lost lost, just calling.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I've had an acts of violence committed in my own home.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I knocked over with reckless abandon a glass of water.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I didn't offer to poor you new glass.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
You didn't I do well because because you said something
as you What did I say? Was that water?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Do you remember you said you drank that water that
I poured you earlier, and you said this is the
best water.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh, I said, this is the best water I've ever drank.
So is that a new Britta?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
No, I've had that for many many moments.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Now do you clean it a lot? Do you let it?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I clean it a lot. I get really scared about mold.
I get really diligent.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
About it because you know, one time I really got
sick from my own Britta filter. You think it was
the mold because I actually was under the impression. And
this is sort of hashtag how I be. But I
thought that because it was a Britta, you didn't have
to clean it. No, girl, Well, clearly no. My own
body was telling me that. Over months, I became weaker.

(01:59):
I became a shell of myself from the Britta.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Isn't it crazy how everything in this world needs to
be cleaned? Mm hm, there is not a single.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thin bitch that is so macro what you said every
day probably needs to be cleaned.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I mean, on so many levels that statement should resonate.
But I think you have to wipe every single thing
you own.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
It is so much more important than you ever know.
There was years of my life. I was living in Squalor, Squalor,
my own filter. You could compare it to grey gardens,
but it was like an unseen gray garden's atmosphere. What
was going on in my apartments for years because I
just didn't know how to change filters? I just didn't.
And I'm talking about both britta and air. Yes, I'm

(02:42):
talking about filters and every good.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Luck getting me to change the air filters and anything.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
My mother will be texting me every five and a
half months. You know it's almost time to change the filters.
Your parents, I don't know keep track of this shit.
I don't get I feel like you and I have both.
I'm not going to use this word in the jair.
We've both become adults. What I was not going to say? Adulting?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, okay, okay. So what's a jerond like an I
G word?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh? Seriously? Yes, yes, So a jerand is just anything
that ends an I in g. Basically, holy shit? What
did you think it meant? You? Jarond meant a type
of word like it's a popular gerond that is used
like a cultural jaren. That's true. I don't know a
type of word, yes, but I thought it meant like

(03:32):
like a jareded would be like a type of noun
or something.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Jarened a form that is derived from a verb, but
that function is a noun in English ending I g
asking in do you mind my asking you? That's a
d Jared is a noun verb basically, got it. It's
used as a noun, but it's verbified. It's a verbed
way of.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Thank you for letting Jaren right, thank you for your
letting me know. Does that make sense? Doesn't make any
sense at all? Thank you for instructing me on that.
Instructing Jaren, well.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Not in that use, because it's just a verb. You
need to use it as a noun. Thank you for
you instructing me. Thank you for your instructing me. Does
that make sense?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
In instructing me, you've done something, You've really done something
right there. I don't think I'm gonna get it. And
you know what's crazy is we were on a Google doctum.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I was just gonna say yeah, and the authority with
which Matt commands the mechanical things on a document, I thought,
I was like very like personnikity. And I'm not saying
you're persnikity, but I'm saying, you have the eye for
it in a way that is very powerful.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
And you know what else is happening right now, You're
saying powerful and you're not saying correct because I guarantee
there's some things I do with punctuation. No, and you
gently let me know about this, because I was saying
there are some.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Occasions no, and I actually think you're right.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, So what I was saying was, there are occasions
when you're, say, typing out a sentence where a quoted
word or section of words, the comma.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
The punctuation should be either in some cases it's within
the quotations, in some cases it's out.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
And I think that it's so difficult for me to
explain what I mean by that.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I know what you mean, but try to explain and
I'll support you.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's okay. So say this was the sentence Britney Spears
took to task.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
In her book. In her book, oh wait, sorry, sorry
now I'm.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Wait, here's it in a sentence Britney Spears was one
of the Mouseketeers. I don't think this is gonna work. Here.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Here's an example. In Britney's book, she says, quote, oh,
Jamie Lynn lied to me comma end quote, before she
went on to accuse her father Jamie Spears, like, does
that make sense? Like the quote the comma is in
is in the quotation. I think we may be in
the week, but then the comma is out of the quotation.

(05:56):
If it's Britney Spears's book quote the woman in me
end quote comma, yes.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
No, because the book would not be in quotation because
it would be italicized because it's a It's okay. So
what we have to know everyone is that we were
on a Google doc together and I think I really
know what I'm talking about. You a punctuation, Yes you do.
And while that's not coming across here, because I don't
know my words, but I do know my heart in this.

(06:23):
You don't know your words that you do know your ma,
my mechanics. When I'm typing out, it's a different beast
than when I'm speaking. When i'm speaking, I feel like
it is some sort of like you know, swamp of words.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Can I say, But when you are typing or when
you were guiding a typing session, huh, you have the authority.
Something happens where you become the queen.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Something happens when I become the queen. When someone is typing,
you know what I really should when you know what
Sudie would say, why don't you just type? And I
really probably should just start just typing instead of being like,
I think the apostrophe goes over here, I think the
colon here, No, that's a semi colon. What we need
is a call it. I think I should just type,
because then, like I wouldn't feel like I was patronizing.
This is a very specific conversation that we're having, But

(07:08):
I think a lot of people can relate to this
because I don't find moments like that to be micromanagy.
I don't mean to be. I just want punctuation to
be clear and correct.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Also, I don't mind being micromanaged.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
I really don't. I really don't unless the person's wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Unless the person's wrong, and I'm like, but then I,
hopefully in a very respectful way, say I disagree, yeah,
or maybe not. But if it's for like a common
goal of like, let's get the mechanics the punctuation right
on this document, I'll be like, tell me what to do.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, But I guess I'd rather just take it then
and correct it than say to someone over their soldier,
because there's something vulnerable about when you expose the fact
that maybe you don't know how to spell things or
use punctuation, or like, I don't know, like I never
want to, I don't know. Why what is this therapy?
I don't want anyone to think, uh huh, I don't
have a control over the written word. Why not? I

(08:04):
don't know. It's I think such a talented writer. I
think that. To prove it to anybody, I think that,
And maybe you can relate to this. When I was younger, yes,
one of the things I could control was that I
was good at types of school and English was one
of them. In writing was one of them. Yes, And
I was like, don't tell me that I'm wrong on this,
because I know I'm right. Wow. And I had very
little control over like other things, like I was absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
And more often than that, you were right. I don't
throw this around to tell me.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I was the only student in my senior year of
high school to get one hundred on the regions, which
was the big test in English, and the five on
ap COMP and a five on ap LID. I was
the only one, and so I thought, if I know something.
It's proud of you. And here's the thing. You think
about those accomplishments and you scoff, because I don't scoff.
I'm so proud of you, know, and I thank you, sister,

(08:50):
But inside you know that you were one of those
standardized girls. No, but that means nothing. I say that
I'm a standardized girl now.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Because I'm like, it really says nothing about the person.
And this is a critique on modern educational system.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I think that that's so far what this episode has
been one thousand percent.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, our schools has failed us. Man and I are
both products of the public.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Schools which we support, which we support, but on some
level we feel filed. You know. We were talking the
other day. I was in a group. We were talking
about like just how you learned things in high school? Yes,
tell me if this rings true for you. Would a
teacher ever go to like the whiteboard or whatever and
just put something up there and you'd have to just
take down notes copiously and you would never actually be

(09:35):
instructed about a certain topic, but you would just take
down notes. Yeah, And the teachers would say repetition is
the key to learning, so they wouldn't teach. They would
just put notes up on the board. You would take
the notes down again and again and again and again
and again, to the point where at the end of
the year or whenever you had a test, it was
essentially muscle memory of the answers.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
One thousand percent. Yeah, and it's repetition is not the
key to learning. And actually this is a perfect story
and example about when a teacher, fully we could all
tell she did not give a shit. But she was
one of those teachers who was like, listen to what
I say because it's always right. And we really hated
her for it. I forget her name, but this was
the seventh grade. We had a crazy year in the

(10:16):
seventh grade. Our middle school decided to give us two
English classes. We had a composition, composition and reading. So
for the composition class, this teacher would put down. She
was like in her early thirties, didn't want to do it,
didn't want to be there, was above the job, hated
us like she sucked bad vibes. But she would put

(10:37):
on a transparency like a list of vocabulary words. Right,
and then there's the word chicanery.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
C h I C A n E R y chicanery.
My girl is this if I knew something, it was
how to spell.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, keep listening. Okay, we go miss Williamson, whatever her
name was, how do you pronounce that word?

Speaker 1 (10:59):
And she we go.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Stumped and like there's a heavy silence as this room
full of fourteen year old students, eager students, wanting to learn.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Your students, ready to learn knowledge.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Rabbits pronolage. But we had all turned on her, like
months ago, I were stinkers, but we weren't stinkers.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Okay, I take it back.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
We weren't stinkers. We were actually like wanting to learn.
And then we were like, miss Williamson, how do you
pronounce that word? She looks at it, pregnant pause, chicken.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Airy And then all of us burst out laughing, laughed
at this woman. I already say it, chic canary, canary,
chicken airy is better beautiful. There's no like. That is
the definite. That's the definition of chic canery is pronouncing

(11:53):
a chicken airy? Is this seventh grade teacher who talked
down her students all year long, eating fucking shit.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Beefing it in front of us with this word what
she's supposed.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
To tricken airy? All this laughter at her, and we
were like, that can't be how you say, and she
kind of chuckled and was clearly embarrassed and then looked
it up later. But chicken airy chiculary, that is too good.
But I do you know what though, at least there
was a moment right there where there could be the

(12:25):
release of girl that's not right and also fuck you
a little bit, yes, because sometimes I remember this happened
to me and my family when we were actually in
New York. We came for Christmas, okay, and we were
in Macy's, yes, and I wish I could go back
and tell this woman who treated my mother some kind
of way that she was wrong because she made my
mom feel bad and my dad was upset. No, So

(12:47):
what happened was my mom, we come in from Long Island.
It's me and my dad, my mom, my sister. I'm
probably eleven, okay, Chelsea's tender age. So we had just
seen like a show or something. We maybe shopped at Macy's,
like it was crowded, bustley holiday, like maybe this girl
behind the counter at Donna Karen was maybe she was
tired or something as the holidays. So my mom hits

(13:10):
the scene at Macy's and she wants to try some perfumes. Yes,
so she goes up to the girl at the counter
and she says, do you have Donna Kuran? And my
mom says Koran, which.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I thought was Koran as well in the beginning, common mistake.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
She also has a regional accents. Yes, Donna Kuran. This
woman turned her face to my mother and she said,
you mean Donna Karan and my family was frozen and
my dad I could feel steamed, and she's like, yeah,
that one, that one, and she's like, we actually I
have to you know. And the conversation ended and my

(13:44):
dad didn't say anything, but we left and she was like.
My dad was like, I didn't like the way she
corrected you snooty, Like it was not right. Come to
find out it's Donna Karen. So my mom was actually closer.
She wasn't right, Koran was not the way you say it.
But Donna can funny. And when this woman was like
you mean Donna Karan, like, ew, don't I want to

(14:06):
go back in time? Get me the DeLorean, Now, get
the Delorian girl. We're going back. I have to go
back to two thousand and one. Macy two thousand and one, Mate,
two thousand and one, Mason, Oh shit, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (14:18):
No, was this after September eleventh or before?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I mean if it was Christmas, hun but then you
would have been three months after September December you would
have been twelve. Look, I'm not dating it necessarily exactly.
I'm not pinpointing it in time. I'm saying the energy
was I was eleven. Does that make sense? It's like
the question of the Big Mac. This is the question, though,
we'll get back to the Big Mac. Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
If the Delorian was taking you to December, November, whatever,
two thousand and one, your only responsibility is to go
to that woman and say it's pronounced to Karen.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
I would make two stops. If I could go back
in time on the DeLorean, I would make two stops. One,
I would go back to your high school and your
high school theater teacher that was treating you badly and
interrogating you. I would actually get in her face and
I would scare her. I would like scare her in
a parking lot. She was fearless. She was fearless, Well
not until I'm done with her, because I'm I'm going

(15:08):
to scare the woman. I'm going to go back in
time and I'm going to punk a horn in her
or something, and I'm going to frighten her. And I'm
gonna say bowen Yang stays unscathed because I gotta get her.
She has hers coming. Then I would go back in
time and I would tell this one. I would say,
I would go up behind this woman and I would say, Hi,

(15:29):
I just want to let you know it's not a
Karen idiot. And then I would disappear. Don't treat people
like that. That is I would go back in time
and my deloreate and I would use it. If I
had to correct two things, I'd be nasty to those women.
I know would be mean and nasty to those women.
This is my question.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
If it was November two thousand, Yeah, do you tell
people what's happening in nine months?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I don't know if I can answer this question, because
that's a very big topic. It's a huge addition. The
YouTube all of a sudden for no nine to eleven footage?
Does that ever happen to you? It's happened to me.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
And then I fall down the hole and then I
for like at least a few weeks. I keep getting
nine to eleven stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It's so bizarre. All of a sudden, I think I
watched one video, which was because I couldn't believe this existed.
It was the YouTube video was live footage of Regis
and Kelly show during nine to eleven, and I was like,
there's no way, lo and behold, no, you weren't even on. No,
yes they were. They were on when the second tower

(16:30):
was hit.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
At like nine in the morning. Honey, that's when they
go on. I thought they were on a like eleven.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
No, sweetie, sweetiere, you just and Kelly. Well really, Regis
justly departed. Now Kelly and Water on at nine am,
and they've been on at nine am. I know that
seems early, but that's sort of what morning TV will
do to you. Start early. Girl.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
We can announce, we can talk now, we can announce,
we can announce that, my girl. First of all, have
you heard of Christmas is out this Friday?

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Oh yeah, Number third featuring Bowen Yang on the track
Rockefeller Santa.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Very very honored and privileged one of my professional peaks.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
You and side I'm on side A, Oh my god,
I'm on the vinyl.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
You are also featuring Vincent and Leland and Moon as
we know. But now we'll be on Kelly Clerkson on Thursday. Kelly,
this is you going on Kelly your friends. Now, this
is a new era.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
I don't feel that nervous to go on because can
I tell you something, not to center myself. But when
I went on last week, it was like my old
friend yeah, right exactly, just like hey you yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
And then she will say, she said, my last Culture
is disinterview was the piece of press for the Chemistry
press cycle that got the most impact.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
The more people have gone up to her about our
interview with her than anything else you did on she said,
you have to talk to her about that. I'm just
so excited that that went so well and that she
feels that way and she looks back on positively. But yeah,
I'm gonna see her Thursday you were on. Isn't that funny?
Our friend Kelly, Our friend Kelly wait as a Lily lawyer.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
You hated to give her recommendations for New York. She
wants me rex Oh.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I actually like I am an arsenal of information. Unill
I guess I don't really know like what she likes
to do, right, I guess like that would be a
question I'd have to ask her, is like, what do
you want this girl? That's what I was thinking that
I was peak behind the curtain. I was doing my
pre interview earlier, and we got to talking about like
dating in New York, and I was like, Oh, that's
like something I guess I could connect with her over

(18:37):
Like she's a single lady in New York. She looking good,
she's got a new stylist on fair. She's like really
feels excited and happy. There's a special Kelly energy in
the air. And you know, I've been hitting the streets myself.
I'm seeing a man in there. Okay, lucky fella, I've

(18:57):
been playing the field.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
I love to hear that speaking of women in pop Yes,
we must. I mean, there's no way we don't talk
about this, No, I think that.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Well, it's allegedly the best selling memoir of all time,
and this is Britney Spears The Woman in Me. Of course,
the Woman in Me is itolicized. It being the title
of a book.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Being the title book. We're holding a hard copy in
our hands.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
We are, indeed, but we can confirm our method of
consumption was audiobook.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
And miss Michelle Williams must win some series of accolades
for that.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's the Grammy for sure for her. Yes, and can
I say she just became a serious egot contender. Michelle's
performance in this is really good. You really feel like
it's coming from Brittany one thousand. It's a channeling moment.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
It fully channels her. And I will say, like, this
is a total compliment, Like the writing is so beautifully simple.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
It's very clear, and it's clear, it's almost instructional about
the ways in which she suffered.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
There's no mistaking it, there's no like interpreting it a
certain way, there's nobody between the lines. But the way
Michelle reads it is so so like watery is not
the right word for it, but it just it just
kind of flows so beautifully and it's powerful like water.
It flows like water. It's delicate like water. I don't know,
I may, Bruce leebagg I.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Think that like something that I can pull from what
you're saying is that there is a beautiful intention that
feels very like natural to her. What she's saying almost
it's like, you really like this voice. It's almost as
if she went through it because she really gets Britney's
sense of humor. She really throws out the like turn

(20:42):
of phrases very naturally. This was directed by Thomas kel
by the way, Yes, if you don't know, that's Michelle
Williams's partner who directed Hamilton, and he directed the Sweety
Todd Revival. And this is like a really talented theater artist.
And you can tell this was like an intimate piece
that was really worked on like almost between three people
like him, Michelle and then Brittain. And then in terms

(21:05):
of like the way that the material is laid out,
it almost needs that like patience in reading it. Yes,
because the truth is a lot of this is so
horrible that it's like if it were to be indulged
in by the person who went through it. I don't
even know if she could have permanence on this. It's
almost better because she might want to throw a lot

(21:26):
of this away or like rush through this or get
nervous the whole thing and just like that, yeah, wow,
who knew? Who knew?

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And just like that would be prescient in that way.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
I just did such a word salad, but like no, no, no,
in such a.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
I just called her performance watery what do you mean,
I'm in the word salad. But Michelle, I was so
struck by like the moment she chose to dial it back,
dial it up, Like when they get to the part
where she shaves her head, there's such a shift in
the performance where Michelle, like and Thomas both know to
like give this most gravity there can be, Like this

(22:03):
was her one of her lowest moments where she was
denied access to her own children when they were only
like a year or less, And God like that whole moment.
The way that that is narrated, the way it's written
is phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
What I love too is like she doesn't let anyone
off the hook, but she also gives context for what
she's kind. She's very kind. She actually does something here,
which is she gives the backstory of the way her
father grew up. And I think something that's a compliment
to her kindness and the fact that she really actually

(22:38):
gave her family some humanity here is that she illustrated
the cycle of abuse, you know what I mean, Like,
her grandfather was very very abusive to her father, who
because of that, was you know, nasty to her mother.
Her mother did not have it easy her mother was
you know, very very complicit in Britney's treatment and like

(22:58):
cruel in her own right, but she goes out of
her way to explain why these people might have treated
her this way. And what I thought was the really,
if there's anything like beautiful to come out of this,
it's that at least Britney's children seem happy and taken
care of, you know what I mean, Like, so at
least the cycle of abuse seems to have been broken,

(23:20):
because it seems like she has happy children, and that
is something that I left the book with, which was
this is someone who, by all intents and purposes, could
have become a monster in her own course. And she
says that, you know, she wasn't perfect. There were times
she was weird, there were times she made mistakes, but
she's got happy kids, and it seems like to this

(23:42):
day that's what she cares about the most, and that
almost feels like reason for the book existing.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Well, and the kids are now like seventeen sixteen, Yeah,
they're older. They're older now, you know when she describes
like lockdown or whatever and then just like being together,
I was like, well, at least there's that, like at
least and even that was the conservatorship technically, but it
was like the kids showing her like what they painted,
or like, yeah, the music or whatever that they would
like play. And it's just it's so difficult to close

(24:11):
out a book like this, the memoir like this, and
end it on a hopeful note, right, because it is
one of the great American tragedies period totally.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
But the thing is, like I almost feel like in
ending the book, she would want us to think less
of her as a tragedy and more as like someone
who even though we might not get it, and we
might as people that are looking at the phones like
see what she's posting and think how sad, Like she
at least takes ownership and accountability over what we might

(24:43):
deem as like weird or crazy, because even if it's
not anything we would post her we would do, at
least it's autonomy. Yes, well, no, she explains it in
a way that like changed my whole perspective on it,
where like I was one of those people who in
recent months or whatever, has been like, oh, Britney is
really doing the knife dance whatever. But like I think

(25:04):
she says specifically like people might think I'm being strained,
and I post these videos of myself just posing and closed.
But like, if you think of it, I've had my body. Yeah,
I've been photographed my entire life by other people and
evaluated by other people. Like if this is me actually
feeling really sexy and pretty and nice and like wanting
to show people the way that I want to. Yeah,

(25:24):
and honestly, like, even if she doesn't quote unquote like
the way she looks, like that's always been for other
people anyway. Like, it's like it's been really interesting literally
hearing from her the stuff about you know, when she
famously like shaved her head, It's like she literally turned
herself into a monster because that's what the gaze of
society and the male gaze had done to her. They

(25:45):
were like, she was like, you know what, I understand,
this is why you're looking. So I'm going to make
myself unattractive to you. And then she did so, and
even her own family was treating her like she was
the way she looked, which to them was disgusting.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, like it is deeply kind to her family, the
way she even like includes her mother in and obviously,
like Jean Spears was affected by Jamie's alcoholism in a
very direct way. But like the way that like Brittany
would write about her and her mom having to like
withstand these nights where her dad would just be on

(26:20):
a rampage like that is terrifying or not Jean Spears,
I'm sorry, lind spin lind Spears is her mom. Sorry
Jeane is the grandmother. But the way that well, they
be naming each other after each other, it's crazy. The
Jamie the Lynn, the Jamie Lynn y shit. Listen, I
started talking. I'm not started to get a little bit.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Can't would, honey, can't would? I said Brentwood. We got
Jamie Lynn and Jamie Lynn party of three. Brittany's at
home like slaving away on the VMAs.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
But like the way that Brittany writes about Jamie Lynn,
like behaving in these kind of incompassionate ways, lack of
a better word, like that's also very generous.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
I think here's the thing. It feels like this is
so weird, but like she has nothing to lose, so
this is all her honest account and therefore it's just
like taking it at face value. Like I don't know
what it was. But there was a couple moments where
like I was listening to this and I was just
so fearing me too, because I just feel like, had

(27:20):
the public because I understand the public is complicent in
a lot of this, I really do, but had we
actually had an understanding of what her reality was that
she couldn't pick out what food she wanted to eat,
that she had to write down when she was going
to the bathroom, that she was forced to have a pain,
forget about the conservatorship, that abortion she was I'm sorry,

(27:42):
but forced to endure. My shoulders were in my ears,
and I was just like, God, I just wish that
it was made clear this person was suffering, like because
you have to imagine that we all would have been
like hey stop, But also would we have I don't know.
It's like one of those hard when it's hard.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
When you have a journalist and I'm sorry to bring
her into this, when you have a journalists like Diane Sawyer,
like one of the top journalists in this country interviewing
room and literally asking her what did you do to him?

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Like that says it all. It's like you must have
done something to upset this amazing boy that America loves
and we don't care if you're going to burst out
into tears in the next two seconds, Like I didn't.
The whole thing being in her own house, like on
her couch, when she describes that couch that she still has,
and like that couch was like her sanctuary. Yeah, in

(28:35):
her house in New York. I think, or was it
all right? It doesn't matter, but that felt. So that's
a detail that like really drives home how invasive that
specific interview was, where like Jamie spears the dad being like,
you're doing this interview.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
No one's heard from you.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
You're doing this interview, and then fully is blindsided and
then is humiliated.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
And I guess, like what makes it even worse is
I think I didn't realize just how devastated and heartbroken
she by that relationship. Yeah, for some reason, the reveal
that they had lived together was a surprise to me.
That they lived together in Orlando, so understanding just how
badly she was doing it, she truly had like a

(29:13):
heartbreak related full blown depression, like she describes not being
able to get out of better eat and like, you know,
every day was a struggle. And then for her, you
have to think, like it's almost been a plan from
the beginning on her father's part to just keep this
grow as fucking weak as possible so he could control
her every move, so he could control her every dollar. Otherwise,

(29:33):
why would you make your daughter do that? Why would
you want to break her? That's I guess the really
tough thing is, it's just what makes a parent it's
capable of wanting to break your child? Like, what makes
a parent capable of that? Yeah, I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
And look, we have talked about how she like gives
some lineage to like his totally or whatever. But like
I was at various points, I was like, no, what
it really is, like, how dare you, mister Spears, you had.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
How dare you you had me fooled? Then you too,
miss Spears? Death to all of them. It's hard not
to agree.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Sometimes you are like death to all of them.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
And here's the thing, actually, though, this is interesting because
I was thinking to myself, like, so this book comes
out obviously justin Timberlake is getting absolutely dragged. My thing
is like.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
He's turned his comments off.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, but I don't even know if he's like I
don't think he's ever trying again, guys, I mean like
I think he's a rap And I was thinking to myself,
like how much forgiveness is he do? And I think
the answer is he is due forgiveness, because I mean,
that's what she says. But the fact is, like she
also has to tell her story. I think it's really

(30:50):
important that we hear this. And I think it's one
of those things where it's like even if in the
years past and I don't know this, and I don't
I don't ever really hear anything about justin any way,
like even if in the years past he's totally changed,
Like this story has to get fucking told one thousand persons,
like and it's rough to see because of course the
internet like reads something and then it's just like a

(31:11):
full on like I can't even imagine what's going on
in the minds of like people that are in this book,
Like right, imagine being Christina Aguilera and you're barely mentioned
the two lines about her in this star. I could
tell she was pretty messed up.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Oh no, but I messed up asn't like she was drunk.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, but like I mean, just like there was me
and a girl in Christina Aguilera. Christina Aguilera did some
weird shit with Justin on the cover of a magazine.
I thought that was weird. Christina Aguilera seems very comfortable
on television and one time my stow Christina Aguilera at
a party and she was messed up. That's so interesting.
I thought that the mentions of Christina were like, okay,
like we've acknowledged that, like she was in the circle

(31:48):
or whatever, not in the circle, but she was like
had made appearances or whatever.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, the years, I thought it was fine.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I thought it was you know what. I just thought
it was funny that she was like glazed over. I'm
sure she doesn't care. I'm sure she's thankful. Yeah, yes,
but Justin has to be feeling some type of way.
And it's like, yeah, but I mean, but there's for
years your karma was it was such a bent thing,
like he was flying high for such a long time,
and the fact is he caused a lot of harm

(32:14):
and she needs to be able to tell her story
because of what was taken from her one.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I mean, my blood went cold when when she describes
kissing him for the first time and they were young
and a Janet Jacksonson was playing in the background.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
You missed that part. I guess I didn't.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, it was like when they were in the Nickmause club.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
And whoa, he was her first kiss and a Janet
Jacksonson was playing like that is out of a fucking movie.
Twilight's on tower, Twilight's on Tower of Terror and the
second we're gonna drop that gives me the hegb's pressure.
And then yeah, you bring up the Janet thing too,
and it's just like, you know what, take a break, dude,
like you've gotten away with murder.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
I think you don't think he's gonna try again. I think, like,
isn't the whole en Sync thing still happening? Like they're
gonna like care, does anyone care? Do no one cares?

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I think no one cares.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
They can't even go on hot ones and like make
any noise. You know what I'm saying, Babe. I watch
every hot ones. I did not watch hot hot ones.
I've watched the Cardi b one probably six times.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Oh that's a good one. I have not watched the
Instinct hot ones, and I won't be I don't want
to watch them try hot wings. Here's the thing. When
InSync goes on hot ones, it becomes these dudes trying
hot wings. When Cardi B goes on hot ones, it
becomes Cardi B on hot ones.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Well it's just there's something so not watching them eat
dissonant and scary about like this new thing hot ones
trying to bend itself to Like I guess give a
tiny two second platform to these five guys who, like
we were all obsessed with back in the day, sure,

(33:50):
but like who were literally a flash in the pan,
like as soon.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
As it was done, it was done, done done. But boo,
it's like what we say, like after every ten to
fifteen years, like rotate out, no more fame, just like
get new famous people after ten fifteen years, because guess what,
you become fucking dated and you become not helpful. And
I almost don't want to say this. Before we got
on the mic, Bowen and I got information and I'm

(34:14):
not saying anyone's names, and I would never do this,
but we got information that a certain actor is gay,
and I'm just like, have we learned nothing? Can I
say this? I'm just what I think everyone in Hollywood
is gay except bad Affleck. Ben Affleck is the only
straight man in Hollywood. The rest of you, including us

(34:35):
are gay, and I feel like the fact that you
don't say it is weak shit. Just say it, and
it's not even just say it like everyone has to
come out with their sexuality. It's not like that. It's
just like people that are actively playing in our face
with these sham marriages. You are a problem. Don't say

(34:55):
anything at all or be real, but don't play in
our face. Don't come out with a fake relationship. And also,
you know what, you guys know who I'm talking about,
Like I'll never say it, but intrinsically, even if it's
not the person I'm thinking of, you know who I'm.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
You know, and it might not even be the peron. Yeah,
it might not even be the person that you are
actually talking.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Whoever it is to you, you know who I'm talking about.
And you're right, and you're right, and they are playing
in your face. You're all gay except Ben Affleck. Ben Affleck,
I think that you definitely are straight, dude. I think
you are nailing Jennifer Lopez. I actually applaud you guys
for how straight you are.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
No, that's yeah, they are one thousand percent.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
They are so straight. I'm like, they are so straight.
Him powering up on his duncan going home to his
absolutely stunning wife and she says, Babe, fuck me again
like you did this morning. He says, yes, Jennifer Lopez,
I will and they never have a problem.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
That's beautiful. I celebrate every part of that. That is
something that I cannot turn my nose at that.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Do you know what I mean? And the rest of
them are getting it into, but they're getting it in
with each other. Yes, and they're queers and it will
be fine. And it almost feels like we came out
and we did it, and we have to have this
thing of like, oh, they're gay actors. I meanwhile, they're
all gay. They're just liars and we're not. They just
never had to play assistance exactly. That's it. They have

(36:24):
to live with some amount of torture. Though I would
never want to be them. I would never want to
be And this is the thing, is like I'm not
even angry at them. I'm frustrated with them, and I'm
frustrated with the system because I think they are unhappy
for no fucking reasons. Exactly, for no fucking reason I have.
Can I be honesty zone? Honesty zone?

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Sure, of course, no one should come out of the
closet until it's safe and they feel empowered to do so.
And maybe I say this to someone who was kind
of dragged out of the closet, But I'm like, we
can promise you with almost full certainty that like you'll
just be happier, yet one hundred percent, you know, I'm

(37:03):
not willing to go so far as to generalize for everybody,
but like, that's just how I feel about the whole
thing in journal. It doesn't matter if you're an alist star,
as long as with the second you feel safe and
that your fears are actually you realize that your fears
about it are irrational.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Just do it. I think that they think that they
maybe they're the kind of person that thinks this actually
is what's going to make me happy, and maybe it does,
you know what I mean. Maybe it's fine for them
to be like playing off a certain image to the
world so they can succeed, or like certain like images
of what is successful and masculine can be upheld. I

(37:39):
get that, and I want to be like, they'll be
so much happier. No, maybe they are the kind of
person that this actually fulfills them, And I don't really
want to know those people, and I don't really want
to like be one of those people, but it could
just be that this works for them, and that makes
me feel crazy. That's why when we had our ninety
second Street why, I was like, it's so weird to

(38:01):
be in an industry and want to succeed in an
industry have so much, so many problems.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
With you know, what, are you trying to uphold masculinity?
There is no real version of that. The version of
masculinity in the weird like the index of masculinity and
the year twenty twenty three is like Joe Rogan, It's like,
it's never going to be like an A List actor
right anymore?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Dirrec exactly. I feel like the bubbles burst on that, right.
So when you are in full makeup and we're to
believe that you're actually married to Xyz actress, it's like, dude,
it's just kind of pathetic. And again I understand. I
get it because like a lot of these people are
like I mean, even in our generation, I feel like

(38:45):
those people that still like struggle with this, and I
feel like I'm coming down hard on me and I'm
trying to like for communic effect to be like Lol.
Fuck these guys like I get it. I'm just saying
we get it. It's frustrating to see that image projected
out into America and the world because it's just like
that's not healthy. Like no one thinks it's healthy. No,

(39:07):
No one's like, God, keep it up. Yeah, and this
is gonna actually connect my thoughts to the Bravo thing
that came out. I just hate like when we pretend
this industry is not what it is, you know what
I mean, Like, it's not honest, it's not something where
images aren't distorted.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's I just feel like your image gets distorted in
any medium. There is a refractive index to any single
means of transmission period. You get distorted on Instagram, yes,
like on your own social media. It's like there's something
exploitative about any broadcasting channel.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And so I was reading this article, and for those
of you who may not know, I was reading this
article in Vanity Fair, which we had been told was coming.
Like for full disclosure, I have not read it yet. Yeah,
I read it, Okay, So basically like it's Bethany Frankel's
Big Swing at Bravo, and it's basically broken into three parts.
One is Bethany, one is Leah, and one is Ebany K. Williams,

(40:14):
And I actually think the article has a lot of
interesting things to say, and to hear the perspective of
Ebony K. Williams, I think is important.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
I've read the big takeaways about Ebane's whole journey with
Bravo and it's really upsetting, right.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
And so basically I think that there should have been
a completely separate article which was this story, because there's
something to say here. And I think that by the way,
Ebony K. Williams in this article is quoted as saying,
fuck Bethany Frankel, like she I think is probably going
to be disappointed, or maybe not disappointed, maybe she's just
used to this shit, but it will be disappointing for

(40:49):
me if I were Ebony and I had told my
story and what I experienced and trying to deal with Ramona,
and I was in the Vanity Fair piece and it
was the fucking Bethany Frankel Housewives play book Inside Baseball
engineered puff piece for her, which by the way, is
written by an admitted fan of the franchise. And I'm

(41:09):
going to assume it's New York because only New York
How's Wives went on record for this, but basically, it's
like Ebanie has real things to say about the way
that the situation with Ramona's racism went down, about the
way it was communicated, about the fact that Ramona still
has a job on Ultimate Girl's Trip, and I think
that there's a lot in that story which is important
and should be heard. And it includes a black female

(41:32):
producer saying that she experienced Ramona using the N word,
not at her, but around her, and it's very frustrating
the fact that Ramona is still working there for these
people like that there's something really important there, and I
think it diminishes that story to have it couched with
these accounts by Bethany and Leah Bethany which seems very

(41:56):
baldly personal against Andy Cohen. I feel that she for
some reason has like a personal vendetta against him, and
like it really feels that way, and it reeks of
that because there's nothing really to be said about her
experience outside of her saying that it's her penance to
do this now, which feels convenient. And then Leah, who

(42:16):
I like personally. I've talked to Leah before, but she
just seems like someone who should not have been on
reality television and was not well suited to that medium.
She admittedly relapsed right before she started filming and told
the producers that it was fine that she was drinking
and that when alcohol was around, she participated in it.

(42:37):
And she basically had that a continued relapse on television,
and then when it finally ended, what she's saying is
like the viewers and the producers felt she was more
boring and they didn't have as much use for her. Meanwhile,
it's like, we see these housewives go on sober journeys
all the time on these shows. I really started reading

(42:58):
it with the intent to keep checking myself. I was like,
I know, I'm a fan of the show. I'm gonna
try to go in with an open mind to see
if there's anything these women have to really say. I'm sorry,
but where is the misconduct in Bethany and Lea's stories.
I'm not seeing it. Well, what was like the the
union angle on the piece? To be honest with you,
it's kind of unclear. It's like, and that's what I

(43:19):
mean when I say it feels like it's more personal
because it's like there's not really in the article this
like spelling out of ways in which they want things
to change. There's there's no like collective action there, because
I mean, obviously you and I are pro union. But
anytime I've read things about what Bethany's trying to accomplish,

(43:41):
I go, I'm not connecting to like what about like
collective power and bargaining like play into this whole Bravo world.
I have never bought about Bethany Frankel that her next
act is like Champion of the People. I've just never
bought that about her, Like, I don't. I think maybe
that's what she thinks will work for her, or what

(44:01):
she thinks that we want to see from her. But like,
I've just never bought that there was anything in the
stuff that she does that wasn't personally motivated. I just don't.
I think that she's a stunt queen. I think she
wanted this out before Bravo Khan and before all these
premieres this week because Bravos having like a big week
right now, and I think that like there's a lot

(44:22):
of eyes on reality because script it has to come
to a standstill, and she knows she can get a
lot of attention for this, but she's not really saying
anything because they try to frame like, for example, when
they go on vacation and the house is stocked with alcohol,
they try to frame that like the producers and Andy
Cohen are somehow applying these women with alcohol. I'm sorry,

(44:45):
but like that's what a vacation is. You go to
the house and there's alcohol there. You then make your
decisions about how you behave and what you can handle.
If you cannot be in control of those decisions, not
only should you in that environment, but you certainly shouldn't
be televised in that environment. These women need better lawyers

(45:06):
and better people around them to help them make decisions
if they are not equipped to be in these circumstances.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
What was there anything in the article about how like
there was pressure from producers.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
To get them to drink. There's these vague allusions to
like Leah talks about how Andy I suppose asked did
you have a relapse on camera and she said no,
I relapsed shortly before. And then she claims that he
looked disappointed, And I'm thinking, Okay, the assumption here is
that he looked disappointed because you didn't relapse on camera.

(45:36):
Is it possible he's disappointed that you really at all.
It's just these like very vague, open ended assertions in
the article and no real statement of misconduct outside of
the ebony stuff, which I think sucks because the ebony
stuff holds something. There's something there, yeah, yeah, whereas like

(45:59):
there's they're there with the Bethany thing. The way this
is being gone about.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
I'm sorry I'm using the passive voice here, but like
Bethany's involvement and this is complicated because it can only
be perceived as personal against Dandy.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I think that's true.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
I don't know, and there's nothing wrong with that in
terms of like a union effort. But it's just like I,
as a reader of this piece in the future, will
I'll have to like parse that out and separate that
from this narrative that's already been like worked into the
medium that is reality television, which is platformed on Bravo,

(46:35):
which is like that's the delivery system, and it's so
it's like, well, how do we fix that system while
also trying to make this better for it?

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Like let's get so tangled up. And I think the
reason that that's also true is because it's also become
part of this other macro thing in our culture, which
is capital T, capital P, the takedown piece, you know
what I mean. It's like I know if this was
gonna come out, and I, like I said, I started
reading this being like, let's see, is there something harmful

(47:03):
about this? Because if there is, we should know. And
what I'm seeing when I read the piece is yeah,
alcoholism is really rough. It is tough. It is a disease.
It's tough. But I almost feel like, where is the
piece about the NFL and the fact that how that
is like alcohol culture and like you know, if you

(47:24):
macro zoom out and you look at that, like you
could take it apart. Where is the piece about like
any part of this business that like is actually fucked up.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
We're not discussing this in terms of like, oh, like
these shouldn't exist, like they should have done a better job,
Like they didn't do what they sit out to do.
We're just saying that, like it diminishes this impact overall,
and it makes it hard for us as an audience,
as a readership to like have an expectation for like

(47:55):
what should happen next?

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Right, because the way that Bethany is like posed on
the cover of Vanity Fail, this science can be saying nothing.
I'm like, this actually takes the wind out of other pieces,
sales and other journalists who actually have things to say
about people who are actually in trouble in places in
this business. And when the journalism is this soft and

(48:16):
this shitty, it makes it harder for people who really
need voices heard to be heard. Because if I'm to
read this piece, then like there's a lot going on
in in the ebony aspect, and like there's just not enough.
And I really I think it's frustrating because it's like
it to me reeks, like it's so playbook to have
just come out before BRAVOCN and like it's just I

(48:39):
just don't at all.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
It's like these deadlines are probably they're not helping, you
know what I mean. It's like they needed this to
go out before bravocon, which meant that like it was
maybe under reported, under researched or something, yeah, or like
under evaluated on an editorial level where they go, what
are we trying to say here?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Right? Yeah, because it did seem confused to me at
the end. It also felt confusing to me for them
to admittedly say the writer of the piece was a
fan of the show. So that's that's a huge red flash,
right right, Like it just feels like that doesn't feel
objective to me, and it shouldn't that be the point.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I feel like Bradley Jackson an episode one of The
Morning Show exactly, or I feel like Alex Levy to
be honest, like, well, why are you the story?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Let's talk t s TV one nine eight nine, Okay,
let's do it. You scared?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
I'm not scared. I actually think there's a pretty general
consensus about ts TV, which is which is there's some
confusion about the vault tracks. One To me personally, I've
only given them one listen yeah wow, and everything except slut.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I'm like, this was written for midnights? Do you think so?
I think that you could be right about that. I
think that if it was written back then, I think
it's certainly produced in a very midnight sy way. I'm
sure sure then I will grant that. I think I'm
in the majority here when I say and also, I
don't want to hear it because every single time she
releases an album, I praise up and down, like, yes,

(50:19):
I think I've been I've always aired on the side.
It is extremely enthusiastic about everything she's been releasing.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
When do you get to talk about Speaking Now TV?
I think that is hugely underrated.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Great. The Vault tracks are spectacular and they feel like
Speak Now valltracks? Do they feel like Speak Now Vault tracks? Undeniably.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I think her vocal choices on the re Records are
very interesting, and I like that she's leaning into how
she's aged, you know, as a vocalist, aged as in
like texturized herself vocully in the year since were you
about to say something about, Well, what I.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Think is that some of these Vault tracks are really
really good. Yes, I love it over yet I actually
think for me, I think the standout is now that
we Don't Talk. I love now that we don't talk.
It slut is good. I mean, say Don't Go is
a lot of fun. It's very Diane Warren. I love
hearing that on Taylor like I feel like arranged differently,
it could be a really fun song sung by a

(51:14):
different vocalist, too, fun song the re Records mm hmmm.
And it brings us no pleasure to say that it
feels that didn't it feels like she chopped it up.
I don't think she gave a shit or I just
don't think she likes this producer that did a lot
of it. I know. I think the Jack tracks fare

(51:37):
a lot better. The Jack tracks sound great. Out of
the Wood sounds great. Yeah, I think she does some
interesting things on Out of the Woods for sure. I
wish you would. I like to wish you would a lot.
I like I wish you it a lot. And like
if you were to look at the tweets about the
Style rerecord, you would think they were hyperbolic. Whoa, I
think this is like hyperbolically harsh. They are not. I

(51:57):
think I think the Style rerecord is that bad. She
sounds like she's not even thinking about the words when
she sings it. And all I have had to say
about her recently as a vocalist is how great I
think she is. That is, without question, she's so amazing
in concert. Just something didn't happen on the nineteen eighty
nine Vault tracks like Whoo, the wild tracks of the records, No,

(52:18):
the re records, I mean sorry, blank space again, there's
none of the personality in it. Maybe she was just
really in this specific bag when she was recording the
nineteen eighty nine originally, but she sounded like she had
other things on her mind. Yeah, on this on these
new rerecorded versions, largely it's usually the track that this guy,
Christopher Rowe produced. I don't think they did great work

(52:41):
together on this.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
It's funny because on I think This Love and Wiless Dreams,
if we're the ones that she released like way in advance,
like years ago, she really is Wildless Dreams TV in
This Love. I was like, these sound very promising. I
mean while this Dream slaps compared to the other ones.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Like I wonder what the timeline was for the re
records and all this stuff. There is something that's not
There's no connective tissue here in terms of like where
she was at whatever that means. Yeah, Like as she
was doing this like I would speak now with Red
with Fearless, like it's like there is this nice cohesion

(53:19):
there throughout each album, going into the VALLT tracks especially,
and I feel like there's such a distinct break after
after New Romantics. You're just like this is a different
thing sonically, which is fine. Problem of course, these are
like cutting room floor tracks. Yeah, but I can't help
it be like this was written in twenty ye twenty

(53:39):
one for Midnight.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Do you know what I mean? Yes, I totally get
what you mean, whether or not that's true. Certainly, it
felt like they didn't care as much about making it
feel like nineteen eighty nine as much as they did
on Certainly Fearless, Uh huh, definitely Red. Definitely read and
Speak Now. That's what I really enjoyed about all those
vaultracks because I was like, Wow, this feels like she's
making a song like I can see you Like. I

(54:03):
don't know if I listen to it every single day
for the rest of my life, but it feels like
I speak now track.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
When mfol is in love. Yes, definitely speak down track,
and it's so lovely. I mean, there's nothing bad about
these Vault tracks on nineteen eighty nine. It's just I,
for some reason, I'm not sold on them being originally
written for this album. That's my conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, and I feel like I do agree with you.
I feel like I'm less hard on that because to me,
what I'm like struggling are the re records, and because ostensibly,
if they's supposed to be the versions that we're supposed
to listen to now instead of the old ones. I
don't want to listen to this new version of style.
I want the old version of style. I want the

(54:44):
old like space, And I feel like most people are
going to listen to both and be like, you guys
are fucking crazy. They sound the same.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
But there's something I'm sure I'm sure people. I'm sure
a decent amount of people will actually agree with that.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yeh, she just sounds she doesn't sound in it on
these rerecords, and I'm fucking obsessed with I saw the
show four times. I've seen the movie twice. You let
a movie this weekend. I saw the movie on Halloween
instead of doing Halloween. Like That's that's who I am
and where I'm at, Like, I don't want to come
on here and be like the nineteen eighty nine re
record didn't give.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
If you heard the rumor what that Ari's working with
Max on her on Agy.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Seven, babe? Is that a rumor? Or? Are you spelling tea?
I'm not spelling tea. I'm just reading what pop Crave
is being. So you so you're telling me that you
went on pop Crave. You Boning went on pop Crave
and thought there was a report from pop Grave and
you didn't text your girl. I am not gonna bother
her with trifling things such as this triveling things.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
It's not trifling things. I'm just like, I respect what
she has with the way she engages with her music
and her songwriting process, and I'm like, I'm not gonna
be like a stand and be like so like, yeah,
when's this coming? Like I like that is she She
is in such an exploratory phase right now where I
don't need to be like, oh, that's exciting, do you
know what I mean. I'm like, I'm not gonna like

(55:59):
bother you about this, Like whatever you like, You're gonna
go splunking into the cave, and then whatever you come
out with, we will pop carnage, we will gag, do
you know what i mean? Like, this is a very
exciting thing for me personally. I'm just like, whatever this
girl is gonna is about to give with Max Martin,
I'm like, it will be fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
I mean, even just hearing Brittany you talk about Max
Martin and you realize how long this has been the
dep of the doll.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
What else does a cultural topic. Well, Wicked twenty to all,
everybody's been in Alphabe and Glenda, haven't they? But you
know what, it is one of those things where you think,
like Wicked really gagged the girls literally because it was
like everyone before the show is like, there's no reason

(56:57):
why a Broadway show with two female leads should go up. Wow,
isn't that insane? And before like that wasn't a thing.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
M crazy? Yeah, I mean it like it really has
launched so many careers. Oh absolutely, I mean I'm gonna
go back on my thing about the DeLorean. I would
love to DeLorean go back in time and see Adina
and Kristen. And now you know what I would not do.
I would not yell at that teacher thank you, because
I wouldn't want to. She's my lot, just because she

(57:26):
was giving you some adversity. I think you grew from
the adversity. I think I grew, grew and grew. Wait
what you forgot? Something rest than piece? Matthew Perry. This
was awful. This was awful. And this is that also
had me thinking about like alcoholism and how difficult it is,
because it seemed like he really fucking struggled and they

(57:47):
haven't announced, you know, the cause of death or anything,
but I just know how difficult he had it, and
my heart just goes out so funny.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I ran into someone on the train and I was
listening to the Brittany audio book Finally Enough, and he
was like, are you listening to it? I was like yeah,
and he goes no, like I've been on a celebrity
memoir kick. This was on like Tuesday, so it was
like essentially hours before, not hours before, like days, but
like still, it was so such a strange thing. He's
like the Matthew Perry book.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I was like, oh really.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
He was like I knew he was struggling, but like,
I guess I haven't like looked into like how intense
that was. He was like, no, it's like he talks
about how like season three of Your Friends he was
on like twenty vik it in a day, Like it
was really hard for him and it's so tragic and
and look shout out to Mindy Tucker, who today on

(58:36):
Instagram went on a really well informed thing about how
like let's just really be careful going into the water
at all alone.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah, at any age.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
But especially as you're older. But like especially in hot tubs.
Hot tubs are actually high key kind of dangerous, especially
if you're alone, especially if you have a heart prop
that you don't know about. Just if you're alone, it's
just like it's not the safest place to be in correct.
So that's that's really important that I feel like we

(59:13):
often think that we we take for granted, I think
are like vulnerability and humanity. Sometimes it's like, you know,
we're human beings. We get into situations where our bodies
get overwhelmed sometimes like we can't handle certain things.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Like it just it is a reminder to be even
more careful. That is so useful and true, And unfortunately,
I wish it didn't have to take tragedies like this
for us to tell each other to like take care
of ourselves. And you know, obviously I feel badly even
jumping into the narrative that like there must have been
something that went wrong, but he was so public about

(59:47):
his struggles with alcoholism that like, unfortunately, like the mention
of his death at an early age just bring up
questions about this and it is really fucking hard. And
what I thought was at least a comfort in the
last day or so, was there was a quote that
was resurfacing that he said, which was, I might be

(01:00:08):
a lot of things, but I am absolutely, one hundred
percent a person who helps someone when they say they're
struggling with what I'm struggling with. Like, even if I
can't help myself, which I often can't, I am the
person who every single time someone reaches out to me
and they have a problem or they have something I'm
going through related to alcohol or drugs, I point them
in the right direction. So that is something I can
say about myself. And I'm sure I'll be best known

(01:00:30):
for Friends and this television show and this character that
I played, but it would be nice if people could
also remember that too. And he said something like, I
know that won't happen, but that would be my wish.
So I saw a bunch of people sharing that I
shared that, and you know, he obviously was an incredibly
talented and charismatic actor and a part of TV history,

(01:00:52):
but he was also like a human being who struggled,
and the fact that he wanted that to be true,
I think is something that we can all help him accomplish.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yes, yes, I just can't believe we've hit the point where,
like someone on the Friends cast has pass.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Isn't that fucking crazy? Obviously, like they only played that
close to friends on TV, But I did think of them.
I thought, like, I wonder how they're all, you know,
feeling and it's just so difficult then obviously triggering when
anyone is publicly struggling with something that I think we
all know someone who has been, especially as we get older,

(01:01:31):
you know what I mean, Like, I think that we're
all realizing, like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Well, just how it is you and I are hearting
an age now where it's like, oh, this is when
people that we know who are around our age start
to realize stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yeah, isn't that interesting. It's that actually, you know what.
I even had therapy today and I talked about it today,
like I not necessarily in the context of anyone, but
it's just in the context of myself. I was like,
I was thinking, like, you know, I was in the
shower earlier, and I think I was thinking about maths,
you know, some other people in my life, and I
was thinking it would be hard for me to just

(01:02:05):
stop drinking. And I don't even have that thing within
me that begs me to drink again. Like I'm just
saying socially, like in terms of how we live our lives.
It would be hard for me to say I'm not
drinking anymore, and I'm not. I'm not even someone who's sick.
So I can't even imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
That's why I like, I never it never surprises me
or it never like shocks me when people like take
a long time to understand that they have a problem
with it, right, because alcohol specifically is so baked into
everything in the culture. Everywhere you look, it's there, it's mentioned,
people talk about it. Caunsula. It's like Sarah Sherman was
saying this at work. It's like alcohol is capitalism. It's

(01:02:44):
like it is just it is the big market, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
It's like thinking about like the ad dollars, like any
like ad offers you get for alcohol, Like that is
the highest paying market period. Yeah, Like alcohol ad money
is the richest ad money out there. Absolutely, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
It's like it's that for a reason. It's like there
is a deep investment in making sure this thing gets
distributed and that people consume it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, it's it's a lot. And I guess that's why
the Housewives thing with the alcohol it bothered me even
more because I was like, we're pretending like this isn't
a part a symptom of culture. Like that's why I
run up the football things because I'm like, this basically
is a game that lives and dies on like this

(01:03:29):
masculine thing. And like the alcohol, the selling of alcohol,
the drinking of alcohol, the consumption of alcohol. I know
from growing up in a culture that was football driven,
that like it goes hand and hand. And it is
really sad, as you said, to see people come up
in environments where it's just a given and then discover
they have real issues later. But they didn't really stand

(01:03:51):
a chance because, as you said, it's baked in, especially
when you're talking about capitalism, especially when you're talking about
like eventized culture.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
But you know what I mean, Like it's if it's
an event, it's assumed that it's there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Absolutely. I'm planning a party on Thursday, and what's been
one of the number one things, how much alcohol do
we need? In fact, it was the first thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Girl, are you making a non alcoholic cocktail?

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Baby? You better I'm doing one for my housewarming. That's
good that you won't be out. I'm very sad now
I am sad I'm gonna be missing that. I would
really want to come to that. It's that's so shitty,
Like I should be here for your housewarming, but I
literally can't be well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I feel like I'm not failing you as a friend
because I'm not present for your album release.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
It's okay, I mean, like, here we are, we're celebrating
each other. We don't need it to be Christmas at all.
Hint at one of my songs anyway, not to be
bleak on this episode, with all these topics we've talked about, like,
I feel like we couldn't even get it up for
nineteen eighty nine tailors or wait, hold on, let me
look at my notes. Was anything good? I liked the
Beverly Hills premiere, Yeah, it was fun. I like that

(01:04:54):
Drey is activated, Derey is activated, Erica is learning about empathy. Yeah.
When she was being explained empathy and she was like
under her breath, how they feel, how they feel, I
was like, this is it's actually I don't find that
endearing at all. Erica is like, you're not pro Erica.
I've never really been. Pat Reagan and I have both

(01:05:16):
worn it as bad as of honor. Yes, You're right,
he was never. You would never. I was never pro Erica.
I used to love Erica, and I feel like I
get it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
She's like a shiny bobble of the thing, but like
a rotten person to her core. And what lights me
up now watching Beverly Hills is and I never thought
I would say this in a million years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
You know what I'm about to say, Sutton. I'm like,
get Sutton back on the television. You have said this before,
like you are a slut.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
I'm a sluttin now I'm a full sluton like she is. Look,
she has the capacity to grow more than anyone else
on the show, like a.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Huge part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
She's a huge part of it. She's so compelling. She
is always funny, always interesting, can go from being light
to also being very heavy when she wants.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, she is very good at this. Yeah, she's a
good housewife. And I will say the Garcelle stuff. This
week I was upset for her because I actually think
it's tough because the Erica thing with Jack's when she
was mean to him on television and asking him at
the party, I think that may have affected him more
than we realized. Fucking sucks that was not good. But

(01:06:26):
I thought the way he was talking to his mother,
I was really upset for her because he was like,
I needed a mom two years ago and you weren't
there and now I'm fine, so whatever, And then she
for her to say to camera that she felt like
she'd failed as a mom. I was like, I just
thought about talking to my own mom like that, And
I was like, you're gonna really regret saying that to
your mom on television because I don't know if he

(01:06:46):
says that to his father. And also, let's be real,
like she didn't ask to be a single mom. No,
I'm sorry, but you're sitting on the beach in Malibu
in your Like, I just didn't like the way you
talked to his mom, who's really hard.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
To give him a life where he can sit on
the beach of Mailivis.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
I think he's gonna have regrets about the way he
talked to her on television because I think that she
didn't deserve to have her feelings hurt like that. I
understand like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
That that was a traumatic moment that he had. That
moment televised YEA when Erica was being horrible, But yeah, yeah,
it's it's not Garcel's fault.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
That just made me feel bad because A I don't
think it's true that she's been anywhere near a failiurism mom.
I think she works hard and loves her kids a
lot and has an opportunity now, like to really hit
the pavement and like make a lot of money for
them and like really support them and herself, and she
should have that opportunity and be I just think he's
gonna regret it. I would not want to be on television. Yeah,

(01:07:41):
as a fourteen year old saying that to my mother.
It actually it really shook me, and I just I
don't know. And how real do you think this Kyle
Richard stuff is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
I don't know what to make of it. I am
like so done with Kyle being the de facto protagonist
of this show. I'm like, am I supposed to get?
You know, I'm supposed to care?

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
But do why? I can't put my finger on it.
Something about it is not landing with me. I think
that they probably are having a transition in their marriage.
I get that, but there's something about the tattoos and
the being hanging out with Morgan Wade. There's something about
it there's something about it which doesn't pass the smell
test to me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Well, like so many things about Kyle in recent seasons
have been like wait what like wait, what is this about?
Like the whole the whole Kathy thing. Like I'm just
like we lack context. There's something off, something's off. But
something has been off with her. I can't tell when
she's acting. Something's not authentic.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
About it period. Yeah, and I guess we'll see Potomac soon. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
I have also lol Erica being like, I'm on hormones.
It's it's hormones. My hormones are amazing. It's not ozempic.
Ozempic is a hormone. Essentially, that's her way around it.
I mean, look, no judgment, no judgment there, but it's
like just say it, yeah, no judgment. But again, like
it's like the thing with these actors being like I'm
married to this woman. What are you trying to protect?

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
What are you? Who's who? Like okay whatever, And if
it is just hormones, like slag go on, it's just
that like it's convenient that it happens concurrently with the
very publicized rise of Rose Epic. If the Potomac taglines
were RuPaul's drag race challenge. Who is the top of
the week and who's in the bottom two? I mean

(01:09:26):
we both know Canvas is the winner, Candas is the winner,
and the bottom is I'm gonna say, Robin Dixon, Robin Dixon,
you are in the bottom. The seven are doing bottom
two hundred percent. That bitch and she did the whole
DNA test and it turns out don't care. But the

(01:09:48):
way she goes, the way she says care is so shocking.
I one percent don't care, but she goes down a
full optave. She's definitely bottom two.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
She fucking so he has always actually know has not always.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
This is the thing that we were talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
I used to love these women, and it's so sad
how now I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Every season I go in trying, but Robin has set
a low bar, and I will say, girl, if you
really don't care, why are you crying on the street, Wait.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Crying on the street. Why are you hiding shit from
the show?

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Why are you crying on the street on the side
of the road. If you don't care, you care, It's okay.
It's okay to care, be activated, be upset that your
husband keeps cheating on you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
You know what I'm saying, like, Wow, it's like we
need to shake her into like being.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Wake up Robin and then who else is bottom? Two?
What did Ashley say? I don't even remember, Mia. Oh,
I might live in a small house, but it's small.
That's something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
I'm starting not and I'm not saying that, like the
square footage of your house determines anything about you. But
for me a Thornton, to say that and use that
as our tagline is that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Anyway, we so look forward to it. We're gonna watch
my right after this. I'm gonna eat more water soon.
But speaking of water and re energizing, let's re energize
our audience because I know they're thirsty little piglets for
I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Yes, this is I don't think so honey. This is
where we take one minute to rail against something in culture. Matt,
do you have a topic?

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
I do have a topic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Okay, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey.
As time starts now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I don't think so honey. Anyone's saying the wrestling singlet
is played as a Halloween costume. Hi, boys, I say
keep going. You got good, You got those thunder thighs.
You can fill it out. You push the dick to
the side, push to the side. I keep rocking those
wrestling singlets. Girls. That is a costume? Yes? Is it
like Madonna and iight on Rupel's drag race with some
of you? Yes? I keep seeing too many singlets. But

(01:11:42):
it's fine because guess what they work. You boys look good.
It doesn't matter. You just al seem to be really
pulling it off, and someday soon, you know, maybe it's
not gonna look like that. I know the power of
walking around in the wrestling singlet at your best. I
wore one in the film Fire Island, and I'm so
happy that it's on camera. So so you would want

(01:12:04):
on camera too, So you know, when's a really good
opportunity to get photographed and videoed on Halloween, honey. And
it's an excuse because you can't just go out walking everywhere.
We're in a wrestling singlet. So I support you boys
and ladies and all my nb's out there who want
to wear a wrestling singlet. You look amazing, and that's
one minute. You're so right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Let the girls wear the singlet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
I say, and it's just so tired, because really, what
you're saying when you see a wrestling single and you're like,
h her real original is you're like you you're scared
to admit how horny you are a wrestling singlet? Does
it every time? Does it every time?

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
This is not my I don't think somebody is Halloween
related as well, but it's not this but like low effort,
Halloween is actually okay, it's the only way to go.
It's actually like the smarter way to go. And we're
afraid to say it. But if you're putting in a
lot of f and well, actually this is this is
about to be mad. I don't think somebody said, put
me in the clock.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Oh my god. Okay, so we're going all right to
the clock. But when's transitioning right into his? I don't
think so, honey, this is his. I don't think so, honey.
As time starts now, I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
If you are hiring prostheticians to put shit on you
for your Halloween costume, girl, that is peacocking a little
too much. Don't you think the only person who is
maybe allowed to do that as Mattie Majakamo for his
peloton walk classes because he looks. He goes all in
and he looks amazing and he commits to the damn look.
But if you're out there going to Horseman Disco and

(01:13:23):
you're you have little prosthetic things like your fucking gaga
during the Born in This Way era, honey stop, it's
a waste of time, a waste of money. You cannot
possibly be sumfortable with all that shit on you. You
can put liquid latex on your face, if you want
to look like you're mangled. Fine, you can go all
out with the horror makeup. Yes, please go off, my queen.
But if you are hiring people, I've seen some of

(01:13:44):
you girls with your little time lap studios of hiring
makeup artists to put shit on you for the damn night,
and it's like, I don't think this is worthwhile.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
It's Halloween. Just take it easy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
We cannot be like wealth brandish sha about this way.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
And that's one minute. You don't think there's something to
be said about them helping the economy, girl, because makeup
boards are making a coin on every Halloween. If your
Heidi clume, if your thing is I go all fun
but don't go to horse go with it. I'm saying,
don't go to a fucking party with that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Sometimes I'm like, you, guys, maybe I'm speaking from a
privileged place because like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Oh, I played dross up every weekend. Yeah, you get
this opportunity all the time to look like a crazy creature.
But I on a costume.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
I just think this is another area in which we
get to like, mmm, kind of like flex a little bit.
And there's that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. I
just am like, it can be a lot. It's the
trip wire is low, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
I just worry. And here's the thing, Like for me,
it's no big deal. If anyone else wants to go
all the way off, please, I just it's so uncomfortable.
Even if I put a wig on. Oh my god,
I'm absolutely dying dying under this wig. Forget about makeup
and all the things. And sometimes these like cumbersome costumes. Girl,

(01:15:10):
I just feel like crazy crazy. But people can do
whatever they want to do. But you're taking a stand.
You're saying no, I'm saying I don't think so, honey,
which is oh yeah, we all know, is not you know,
to be taken not to be sick and serious. Oh
my god, girl girl, we.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Went heavy this episode. We talked about Brittany, we talked
about the Housewives, thing, talked about Matthew, and we talked
about nineteen eighty ninet TV.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
This was the takedown episode.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
We weren't taking things down and we were taking down
her family.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah. What should we call this episode? Hmmm?

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Interesting, vicious jerending, vicious jerending.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Vicious jarending. Do you think that says? Click me? I
think so? That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
I want to be What are these boys talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
You don't think so? You want to coll something better?
Was something juicy? Okay? Hmmm? The Britney episode, the Brittany
Episode two, The Britney Episode two Brittany and Moore Perfect,
The Britney Episode two Brittany and More perfect to me? Wow,
we did.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Thanks for joining us. As always, Readers, keyse public Is finalists,
be sure to stream. Have you heard of Christmas This?

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Wow? It's coming out. I cannot wait for my sister.
This is a ten out of ten no Skips album.
I'm so proud of you. Two Kinds of mea Quina.
We end a three episode with a song them might
be a little wayne because I've leave been saying in
chances you don't know what I do say in my life.

(01:16:50):
If you get oh, I guess I lost the words.
It's fine. All I know is action. Wait, you know
what I wanted to say before we end. She was
an unbelievable recording artist. If you listen to your songs,
what she does on me against the music, there's a
vocal which is like rab take it down, Like with
the sounds she was making vocal fruh, She's like fuck,

(01:17:12):
I don't care the sounds she was making to like
create her lead vocal. Brittany was an amazing singer.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
She was an incredible singer. And in the Zone is
it's for me. It's always been a time between in
the Zone and Blackout.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Yeah. I mean she really loves Blackout and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
She really lives in the Zone, and she really loves Glory.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I love the Glory.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Glory is an amazing I need to listen to Glory
all the way through.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
When it starts and you listen to Invitation, just like
put your earphones in and like close your eyes and
lay on your back, girl, because Brady will thank you
for a ride, she's inviting, she is, and then you
know you also get on that album. Do you look
at her? Bye Bye,

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Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Britney Episode 2: Britney And More (w/ Matt & Bowen)