"The Universe Needs To Relax" (w/ Cynthia Erivo)

Elphaba may sing about how she is "not that girl" but Cynthia Erivo IS that girl! Okay?! And she's also the guest this week on Las Cultch! The magnificent hyper-talent joins Matt & Bow to discuss auditioning for Wicked, crafting her Elphaba and ultimately letting her go. Also, running towards portraying some of the most iconic people and characters in history (Aretha Franklin! Celie! Harriet Tubman!), running in general, and a moment of appreciation for the color green. All this, how Ariana Grande has helped Cynthia find her voice as a recording artist, the responsibility and magic of singing at The Kennedy Center, the importance of listening to lyrics, the oppression of onion and garlic, and continued angst about the lack of availability of British snacks in America. Wicked hits theaters November 22nd and Cynthia is spectacular in it. OOOHHHAAAAHHHAAAAAHHHAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, it's me Matt Rogers, letting you know. Tickets
are on sale now to see me on tour, the
Prince of Christmas Tour, that is, I'm doing my whole
album have you Heard of Christmas? Plus a lot more
with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www
dot Matt Rodgersofficial dot com. See me in a city
near you and now Lost Culture drums.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Look, oh, I see you my own and look over
there is that the culture, Yes, lost Culture, Dan, Lost.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Culture calling and our green as it were.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
You know, it is a very present color in all
of our lives. And yet for someone to I don't know,
like really not gonna say own it, but.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's my color now vibes.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
And I'm not talking about us, No, I'm alty.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Talking about someone else. So you'll hear about an assass you'll.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hear from an asak. I I'm already sort of basking
in the glow of this person because I'm fresh off
here not how could you know? I mean, this is
the first time I'm seeing her in person in a
long time, and I'm fresh off of seeing the film
Wicked Part one again last.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Night, there was a screening talk.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
About this because this was a really this was not
just any.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Screen No, no, this was so sublime. It was Broadway
friends and families. So it was so many of the
original cast of Wicked, but also all the casts since
over the twenty one years that the twenty one years
the show has been on around the world. Kristin was there,
Norbert was there. Wow, so many wonderful, wonderful people. I'm

(01:37):
missing so many people. Carrie Saint Louis was there. I
saw that one of our famed Glinda's and it was
just the warmest crowd. I couldn't believe it. You know
what was also crazy children of the original cast.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Oh so now it's truly generational. And see that's the
great thing about this, and I think that it's like
hitting everyone right now. I was like, this is meaningful
on me because I've also seen the film. It was
a little bit of a different situation. It was a
very small screening room and I was just telling our
guests when I saw it, I was like, are people
going to turn up the way I'm going to turn.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Up because it was a smaller theater, Yes, smaller screen,
and I.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Can say that they did. But it's so when you're
watching the movie. What's so incredible about it? And I
don't know why I had to realize this, but I
was like, oh, we're also honoring the Wizard of Oz.
This is generations of cinema. This is the Wizard of Oz.
Is the story and so wicked is the story and
it's just to watch it land on people like that must.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Have been really really really monumental, so monumental. Oh my god,
I can't believe you're here. I love you so much.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
I mean just to speak on you know. Oh the way,
what a huge year for Green, big Green. You did
that this year. You really you really got your right
And I'm sorry, can remind us what well Brack Green?
Oh Brad Green? Of course, well there was famously Bratt
Green and now there's Alpha ba Green.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Green was very present at the various tennis opens of
the world one hundred you know.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Golf because of the color of the grass, of the
grass Green forever. It's actually real culture number six. Green
is forever our guest today. Is one of the most
brilliant artists of any generation and Emmy, Grammy and Tony winner,
an Oscar nominated actress and songwriter, just a truly brilliant

(03:23):
star who we're here to announce is Alpha. But you
heard it here first, ringing Alpha butt in Wicked. I mean,
when you see this, you are going to be truly lifted.
I mean, and I don't even say that as a
pun because of the famous lifting that happens, not a spoiler.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's also the patron saint of the Kennedy Center.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
At this point, I have If you don't think I'm
going to bring up Alfie, oh you didn't think.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
If you didn't think, you don't talk to me. Don't
talk to me until I've had my since. Okay, everyone,
and welcome into your ears significent the area.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
How are you feeling since last night?

Speaker 5 (04:09):
I'm feeling very, very like floaty. Last night was crazy
and amazing. Many many things are happening around town. I
was bouncing around all over town. So I started the
cfdas went back to the screening. I was hanging out
at the screening for a little bit, which was so surreal.
I had like an outer body experience. So I was
standing at the back of the first of all, I

(04:31):
walk in and there's all the alphabe as standing there,
all the Glinds standing there, and then there's Kristen right
in the middle and she welcomes me. We have this
massive hug Christmas amazing, and I'd already spoken to it, Dina,
so that was like already sort of like a metaphysical thing.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
That was going on.

Speaker 5 (04:47):
So I felt like, Oh, I'm part of this incredible sisterhood,
which you know you are, but when you see it
in like real life, that sort of becomes an actual
core memory.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah. And then we move.

Speaker 5 (05:01):
Upstairs and then we speak and we start talking about
what it means to us. And as I'm waiting for
us to go up, I realized that I'm standing in
front of a Broadway family, one of which I've belonged
to because of my history and the things I've been
through and color purple and all of that. And I'm like, oh,

(05:21):
two things are happening at once, So I'm getting to
show this film that is from Broadway to a Broadway
family from which I belong. I just had like a
massive not even a meltdown, but like a real realization
of the journey that I've been on and what it
might mean to them and what it might mean to me.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
And it just was it became.

Speaker 5 (05:45):
So it was already a big moment, but that became
a really huge moment to be a part of.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
You were enveloped in it.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, I had to be like, I've got to breathe.
I can't even. I feel like I'm so out of body.
It was so insane. And then because I had to
rush back, I really didn't want to leave immediately. So
I hung out at the back and watched just like
the first twenty minutes of the film with everyone and
just to see, like hear it that the laughs and

(06:12):
the tears that happened immediately, the applause, and it's just
it was working.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
You know, you're like, oh, it's playing.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
My makeup artist was saying, there's this piece in Madonna's
Truth or Dare and when she they're standing in a
circle and they're about to go on show and it's
in her hometown and she's shaking, she goes, it shouldn't matter,
but it does matter what they think, of course, and
I was like, that's that's the case. It does matter
what this legacy, what this room thinks of this piece.

(06:46):
And to be in the room whilst they were accepting
it and open armed for it was beyond beyond my
wildest dreams.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
How are you managing over all your emotions around this moment?
Because I'm not, That's what I mean. Could you do
you have like time to yourself in the mornings where
you like actually let things out like or do your
emotions like surprise you in moments?

Speaker 4 (07:09):
They surprise me.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
Sometimes I feel like I'm really like I'm in control
of what's going on, and I you know, I could
manage everything. And then the other times they just like
spill out, you know, unexpectedly, a little thing will happen,
and I go, oh my god.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
We were talking about this before with like John and
with Ari. It's like it's because we kind of put
it to the side. We can permentalize that we put
it in the door, and now it's all coming back
and there are these things are popping out of not nowhere,
but like intermittently. Because it was something that you sat
with for years, yes, yes, And was that your first
time watching in a bigger room last night.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
With an audience on a bigger screen with many people. Yes,
that is a very different experience to sent the correct
very different even to because we I watched that movie
basically with two other people, me and like my publicist
or something.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, and we just sat and watched and that was it.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
And I'd been craving to watch it in a theater
with other people who had never seen it before, who
were just coming to it for the first time. So
to sit like to watch people react just off the
cuff insane. It's completely different energy. It's the wildest, most
energy filled, most electric feeling you could imagine. I can't

(08:26):
wait to do it again. Yes, I can't wait to
do it again and again. Do it as much as
you can. Because we're talking to you.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Is like to you as someone who's obviously been in
films before with theatrical releases, but like, I don't know, different,
it's just different. And also, of course, of course it's different.
But also the thing that I missed about, you know,
Matt and I were in a movie once that didn't
come out in theaters, but we went to like the
premieres and stuff and the screenings, and it was like, oh,
I'll miss this so much, just sharing the space with
people watching this at the same time and.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
To give it the cinematic opportunity that it deserves. Because
we were talking to Ariana last week the pod. And
one thing that struck me was when you're shooting it,
it is you're at work and you're shooting it. So
there's the tape, you know what I mean, there's your mark,
there's the guy with the camera. So then all of
a sudden, it can feel easy to slip into, Oh,
I'm at work, I'm doing the scene, and you know,

(09:16):
I'm talking to my friend, I'm on my phone when
I'm not like here, and then all of a sudden
you see oz.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Yes, and it's all together and everything like all of
those miniature things that make it happen, all the stuff
that like, oh, semantics go away. Yeah, and now it's
like the thread is there. Yeah, and then you're ling together. Wow,
we made a big yeah movie.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
It's insane. The thing is huge.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
And like I keep going back, even I was in it,
go back and I watched and I go I didn't
see that last time. Oh my gosh, I didn't notice
that the person did that. I didn't know that I
was Why did I roll my eyes at that point
when you catch that?

Speaker 4 (09:55):
When did I do that?

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I don't remember.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
So you're catching up on all the things that you
may have done in the moment that you didn't remember
you even did, or you didn't remember was there, and
now all of a sudden you're like, oh my god,
that was That is.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Where I was.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, and that's alphabet and right. That is another thing
is it's just like you've contributed such a beautiful, strong, funny,
powerful alpha bat And I wanted to ask specifically about
one choice in the film because this, to me was
this really is what blew people back in their t

(10:30):
so so much said about defying gravity and in that
the last note, right, the gut that you put in
that note, that battle cry, that roar is so different
than the way you've approached vocally the rest of the
performance the whole time. Can you talk about that choice?
And like the collaboration with John on deciding how to

(10:52):
make that note that alpha but two point zero that
launches us into Wicked Part two, we.

Speaker 5 (10:57):
Knew that for her this was the beginning of her journey,
almost like the beginning of what we know will become
the wicked wicked word. But it had to be for
both of us, the release of everything. It had to
be a raw, so I didn't necessarily want to make
it pretty. So there has to be like a gutta rule.
It has to come from that place that's the beginning

(11:18):
of like the rage and all of that grit. So
we just were like, how what do we want it
to sound like for me? And each alphabet has their
own battle cry, each alphaba has their own raw and
I spent some time searching for what that felt like,
what that could be, And the moment I did it
and tried it, everyone was like, that's that's it.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's it because the rest of alphabet and this in
part one, the vocal sort of the quality and the
timber is so clean and so and in a lot
of ways what we know to be Like Cynthia Rivo's
voice is like it's just.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
So purely pure and there is like a like it's
it's almost like it's always intimate you singing I'm not
that girl who is such a beautiful and you're not
really understand when you watch on stage. Obviously we enjoy
the song, but when we can be really with you
and you're singing it, it actually makes define gravity even more.

(12:10):
Hartbring like, that's why it's going to be amazing to
watch on a second, third, fourth, eighth, ninth, millionth time
is because the arc is it really lands and in
that last note like I just can't wait for everyone
to see it, that said it should have been one movie.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
It's like, please, there's no way, Like I love.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
That people are so passionate and the like, it should
have been one movie. And I understand, but because we
were there and we shot the second movie, there's not
a chance. No, there's no way. There's no way it
could be one movie. There's no there's too much. Yeah,
there's too much.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
And even you know, there's something to be said about
part one running in at a certain time, it's like
it moves even and even then. I think even last night,
I was like, things can breathe even more if we
let them, Like a lot was cut out, you know
what I mean, Like a lot was like, Oh, I
guess we're trying to service the audience experience by like

(13:11):
not making them sit there for too long. And yet
it still came in like two hours, minutes or.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Whatever, and we still never felt do you see what
I'm saying?

Speaker 5 (13:19):
Like, can you imagine we went on to the second
No way?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
I was like, because you couldn't move on to Thank
goodness that No, it's impossible without define gravity suffering, and
the rest of the movie after that suffering.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah, literally everyone has to be like to go away.
We have to all go away, right, yeah, let we process,
let me come back, we see it again me, you know,
we'll see this.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
We'll get back. And also what's.

Speaker 5 (13:49):
Lovely about waiting for the second is that there is
growth happening in that time.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
So what happens in a year is.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
Like the growth that happens totally everyone that comes back
the second time around.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
And to just to speak about like how you don't
want to let any moment not have its it's true expanse.
I think one of the most unforgettable moments I've seen
in a film in a really long time to speak
on just this one segment is dancing through life when
you come in and it's the hope and the you know,

(14:26):
this chance to have a real social moment, any disappointment
and the realization that you've been tricked. I just think
that that entire sequence I could get chills. I mean,
I don't think there was a dry eye, and.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
That just if you had stayed for that last night,
you would have crumbled. Not that you're not a strong person,
it's just peep. It was a cacophony of sniffles and
like everyone, it is a beautiful moment. And I wanted
to ask about shooting that like that MU have been

(15:00):
so vulnerable and exposing and tough.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, it was that was a hard That was a
hard day.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
And I thought when you when when I was watching
and I was like, I wonder where she's at.

Speaker 5 (15:11):
It was hard, Yeah, because you have to process. I
really understand Alphaber's ownership of loneliness and like knowing she
feels different, knowing she's not one of the one of
everybody else and deeply wanting to you know, there's a
part of us that all wants to be We all
want to be accepted, even when we know that we

(15:33):
can't or we're different and we're on the outside. I
think that because I understood that, that's where I'm in
my head. So it's just you know, funneling all the things,
all the times when I feel alone, all the times
when you want to be accepted all the time, is
when you feel like you're on the outside, all the
times when it just you just can't connect with every
with everybody, and it's just that that replays in your

(15:55):
head and in your body as well. And when you're
doing something like that, something like that, well you are
really on your own. The loneliness really loud, so you
just have to process all of that. And that's what happened.
And every time I could, it was like the more
you do it, the deeper you go. The deeper you go,

(16:16):
the deeper you go. So but by the time I
think you got that show, it was like there was
like nothing left. It was just I couldn't hold anything.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, well, my memory of it is that every single setup,
every single take, you gave it a perfectly calibrated, vulnerable,
raw thing and it was really beautiful to watch and
also very difficult. And I can't so if it was
difficult for me to just even stand by the wayside,
like I can't imagine the sort of buckling and all

(16:49):
that that you were giving in service to this project,
and like that is that is I think like the
takeaway for everybody for this movie is that, like this
film is telling this huge universal story, but then for
the performer, for Cynthia to be the vessel of alphabet,
this character, like you gave it so so much, You
gave so much of yourself and I remember you at

(17:10):
the end of that sort of segment of shooting that
you turned to everybody and thanked them. Yeah, and it
was and we just all applauded, and it was just
such a beautiful, loving moment of sort of communion because
we'd all sort of been through it in a way.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
It with me. Yeah, I felt really supported and held like.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
It felt like genuine and care.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
It felt like there was the most amazing energy in
the room. It felt like, you know, there's like a
circle of like, yeah, strength everyone, we will have to
do what we have to do. But actually in the
core of everyone's heart, I could feel like energy, hold
the circle, keep the energy, keep the space. And there
was such respect for what was going on and what

(17:53):
needed to happen. No one was too loud, No, it
was all like quiet when it needs to be quiet,
and space whine it needed to be space. And I
felt so loved, so taken care of during that that
to have finished without saying thank you would have been impossible,
because I knew that It's hard enough for me to
play the person who is alone and going through that,

(18:14):
but I think it's just as hard to play anyone
who has to reject someone who is that as well,
because also I was aware that so many people on
that set are versions of.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Elbabet uh huh, you know.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah, we're all the quick kids who are out, you know,
and who are pushed on the outside. So everyone in
that room is sort of watching a version of themselves
in this moment. I just like, that's something that came
to me when I had finished and I looked around,
I was like, we all understand this, yeah, And so

(18:48):
to have to play the people who are rejecting it
must also be deeply difficult to do, a.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Very hard thing to also sit in that emotion and
guilt and shame that you have allowed someone to feel
this way, which is why it's such a moment for
Glinda as well. You know what I mean. It's like
that is the scene that solidifies the relationship because it
is both of you confronting the way you really feel.
And then it launches into popular which is so joyful
and so expressive and colorful. But it's just so successful

(19:20):
two things.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yes, thank you for acknowledging, even though it's a fraction
of what you had to go through on a performance level,
Like there was something I remember, like in the circle
where between takes, like we would just turn each other
and be like, it feels really bad for us to
like snicker and laugh at this person, and we had
to do that take after take, and then I remember
coming up to you a bunch of being like, how

(19:41):
are you doing? I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
I was like, it feels so.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Unnatural for me, a gay man, a bully in the
airy about I'm like, this is so wrong. And then
the second thing with which which is what Matt saying,
like launching into Popular. I remember John turned to me
last night and was just like, it's so great how
the audience is immediately in love with Glinda for their
as friends. The second dancing wife is done, and that's
just it just comes from that moment.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
You know, Lovely.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
I love my favorite part of that, that scene in
between dancing through Life, the oz Dust and Popular, the
scene that we have in the bedroom. I think it's
it's just such a tender, sweet scene. Arian and I
were saying that the two of them are so awkward,
they're like figuring it out, Yeah, out, how do we
hang out? Has never been at a sleepover before, so

(20:30):
she's like kind of awkward and not really like I
doesn't really know what to do, and Glinda's I think
also equally awkward, like how do I hang out with
this person? And how do I share the space? And
they're sort of figuring it out the way they like
undulate and figure it out together, and then finally like
land on the floor and then it's you know, it's tomorrow, tomorrow.
I just love how they find their way to that

(20:52):
popular happens. I think it's that's the journey for them.
They find each other and you know, but to give
that sort of she confides in it's sort of like
I trust you if I'm going to trust you with
this thing that I don't think. I don't think Alphabe
has told anyone that story, to be honest. I think
it's the first time she's voiced it, and I think

(21:14):
there's just a really wonderful moment of them deciding to
trust each other.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, to speak on the collaboration between you and Arianna,
So I would imagine you get this part, and do
you find out pretty immediately that the role will be
played by Rin and Grande.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Or soon after?

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (21:30):
I don't think I found out on the call, but
I think I found out soon after maybe, like a
day after and they let me know what was going on,
and I was like, oh, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, so is it that, like, you know you're up
for it, and do you hear who's up for the
other thing?

Speaker 5 (21:44):
Don't tell me a damn, don't tell me. Don't tell
me anything. I don't want to know. I don't want
to know who was going up for it. I didn't
want to even know until they needed me to come in.
I said, give me no information, give me nothing. I
don't want to know. Tell me if they actually want
me to come in. That's all I want to know.
And they didn't. I said, I don't care who's going in.

(22:05):
I don't want to know when, and if they want me,
then I will know. Yes, that's all I wanted. Meaning
the audition are actually playing the role the audition. So
this is wild to me that Cynthia or Eva would
have to audition for anything.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Just because it's like, well, clearly we know this is
going to be brilliant, but you do have to audition.
And when you do, do you sing defying gravity?

Speaker 5 (22:28):
Yes, wow, you sing defying gravity. You sing the Wizard
and I you sing for Good. You do a bunch
of scenes, but they were really really respectful. I actually
think what happened was because I think I was the
last to come in. John and I had had a
couple of conversations, and then I waited a couple of
weeks and then they came back with we want you
to come in, and it was a camera test essentially,

(22:51):
So I was there for three hours my audition, and
that was the one and only thing I came in
to do. I think they were deeply, deeply respectful. I
think John had teed it up for me. It was
mine to lose.

Speaker 7 (23:01):
God.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
I felt like he gave me the most amazing platform
to come in and do my work and then let
it be. And I think that's probably why. But I
loved that I got the chance to come in and
show how much I wanted it and show how much
it meant to me. And I was prepared to come
in a couple of times if they needed me to,

(23:25):
because I think the role deserves.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
That, right.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
I think the role needs it. It's not enough to
want to come in because you can sing. It's not
enough to come in because you can act. I think
there are layers that he was looking for, and I
remember when he said the thing that swung it for
him was the way I did the Wizard and I
he said, there was like a vulnerability that I hadn't
seen in the other roles, like a youthful, hopeful energy

(23:53):
that the other roles don't permit, don't give you the
chance to do, Harriet, does not give you the chance
to do. And because it's there's so much more depth.
It's like deep and hard and you know, resilient, and Bell,
who is in Widows doesn't. It's not that, you know
what I mean, fantastic, but it's a different energy in

(24:17):
the way this is really side of you. And so
I think he was he wanted to see like the
wide eyed openness that I have, but I don't necessarily
get the chance to share and the Wizard and I
gave that energy to him. So I was just I
think I was lucky that he allowed me to express

(24:39):
that and show it.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, and also what it takes to hold the responsibility
of playing something so iconic. It's something that you've done
several times. I was thinking about you know, your like
you know, Harry, like Aretha Franklin silly, you know, I mean,
like these come with ye scrutiny. Yes, but also responsibility

(25:02):
and history. And so I was wondering, because this seems
like a like a pattern, does that excite you or
is this like happenstance that these happen to be like
these iconic things, or do you find that You're like, yeah,
that thing that everyone's gonna watch examine, I'm not afraid
of that. I want to run to that. Are you
running to these things?

Speaker 5 (25:23):
I think by accident, I'm running to them because I'm
not necessarily running to them because I know that people
are watching or inspecting them. I think I'm running to
them because they're the most interesting people to play. Yeah,
the ones who have like depth and history and there's
complexity in it all the way around.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
I just think they're interesting characters first first and foremost.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
They're people who have once in needs and maybe there
are parts of them that maybe haven't been discovered, and
I want to like open them up even more and
play and learn them even more.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
I think I'm intrigued by that.

Speaker 5 (25:56):
Yeah, and then then the layer of like, oh, but
also so many people know about this person, and so
many people are invested in this person and projecting yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Real or fictional, yes, yes, how much of I would say,
like the initial gut level alphabet in the audition, do
you think was retained by the final product.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
I think maybe about sixty percent. And I learned a
lot when I was there.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, because you know what I love. I've heard
you talk about how a lot of roles you approach.
You start with the walk, yeah, and I love how
you how you kind of the opening shots of Alphabet
are of her walk.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
You literally start on the close up of the shoes, yeah,
the feet, yeah, as she sets fed on ches. And
I think from those immediately you understand that your take
on Alphaba is really new and beautiful. It's like she's
not like drab or like awkward or uncomfortable. She's very
self assured. She's there to like support her sister. And

(26:59):
then that first monolog where we're all like gawking at
and you're like, oh my god, who's she? You're like okay,
like in a way like and I love and celebrate,
Like as we're talking about the alphabets of yours, it's
like there's such a wonderful blueprint of how this has
been and for you to like honor that and also
sort of divert is really special, and I feel like
that must have come from like your experience with playing

(27:21):
all these.

Speaker 5 (27:22):
Very different women. Yeah, and it was. You know, It's
like it's not on purpose to be like I'm going
to change everything now. No, I just once I put
her shoes on, and I think because of my own understanding,
and everyone has a different understanding of what it is
to be different in what it feels like to be
sort of like on the outside. I just thought to myself,

(27:44):
She's been in the skin.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
For her her whole life.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
It's not new for her. People staring at her, it's
not new for her. People having a weird like reaction
to her.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Not new.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
Her needing to be the support for her sister, not new.
Her getting yelled at by her father not new. It's
like this is all stuff that she's been through already
and has like it's in her skin, in her DNA.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
The assignment, That's what it is.

Speaker 5 (28:10):
So like, the choice is I'm either gonna be mad
my whole life or I'm gonna get to the joke
before everybody else does, right, And if I can get
to the joke before everyone else does, and it is
a form of defense if I get there before everybody else,
then I can't be her.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
They're already behind.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
So Okay, yeah, I'm not this, I'm not that if
I already say it myself exactly, I know, I know
what I'm in, I know what I look like, I
know what I'm where I've been, and I know what
you're thinking. Like my one of my favorite lines when
you first meet her is, here's my sister, necessarily, and
she's a perfectly acceptable color, Like because no one else says,

(28:50):
oh this is we don't she already knows, she knows what.
That's what everyone's thinking, right, And it's like she said it,
like here we go, you know, And I think that's
how she functions.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Is that a defense mechanism that you relate to, Ye get.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Their first and.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's a queer thing, and like it works on some
level until it doesn't until you're at the osdask right, it's.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Just self defense until you're building a weapon.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Oh my goshlie.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Lord lord, I'm not going to spoil something, but like
there's a moment at a very critical juncture of this
film where there's like an inner child healing moment. Yeah,
and it is executed. So every emotional beat of this

(29:44):
movie lands, which is not to say that the rest
of the movie like doesn't work on any It's just
the underpinnings of this movie are purely emotional and that's
like a testament to you. And this moment of the
inner child. Yes, for a long time, I kind of
rolled my eyes at that. Oh you have to like
what is like like right, talk to like the young
version of myself. I roll something about this movie really

(30:07):
like cracked me the fuck open with that, except you
know what I mean, And it's like what you're saying
with like, oh, alphabet, we all kind of grew grow
up with these.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah, it's because you don't think that because throughout the movie,
she the inner child is not on the outside. And
I think that's actually how most of us function, Like
we don't realize that we're all healing like deep seated
wounds that are on the children that we were. Yes,
but it's never usually it's not obvious.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
We don't know.

Speaker 5 (30:33):
And I don't even think she knows until she knows.
You know, she remembers certain things and there are things
that we like that she keeps to herself, and it
shows up in like flickers and when she gets yelled
at by her father. It's like an immediate sort of
like call to what has been, but she doesn't. There's
no real acknowledgment until she has to acknowledge. But that's
what she's running away from, and that that's what she

(30:56):
has to move towards.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
Oh oh my god, you were sitting here.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's just so funny because I had a moment where
I started to get a little emotional because I'm remembering
and this is a little bit of a left turn.
But when you performed I'm here on the Tony Awards.
That was I believe it was a couple of days
or maybe the day after Pulse, and I just remember

(31:22):
how much that meant to me and to so many
people that felt like you were putting a warm blanket
over everyone. So I guess just like thank you for
the gift of that performance, like retroactively now years later,
but also in terms of like being given these opportunities
to give these live performances, because we mentioned ALFI earlier,
you know, nothing compares. It's another opportunity that is very

(31:46):
high stress that you seem to be running towards, and.

Speaker 8 (31:49):
I would runs we saw windows. But like again, those
opportunities which will probably come forever. Do they excite you?

Speaker 1 (32:01):
How are you feeling in the moments of receiving offers
to do things like that, receiving calls to do things
like that, in the moment of doing.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
Things When it comes to as a singer, I do
go towards them because I feel like if I wasn't
meant to, they wouldn't come my way. And I think
there are moments of great responsibility to connect with people.
People say that actors, we're not saving lives, but I
think that there is an aspect of.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Maybe we can heal a couple of people.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Singing music is different, you know.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
Sing crapt people open, We can connect. We can help
you connect with things that you might not have thought of.
We can help you heal a little thing and think
of something. And I feel like that's my duty, that's
my work. That's the grander design of the gift that
I've been given to sing. So when opportunities like that
come singing at the Kennedy Center, of course, I'm going

(32:54):
to stand there and give deal Morik her flowers. Of
Course I'm going to share with her the moment that
I really fell in love with her, the fact that
her voice is the seminal voice for Alfie for me,
you know, I want to connect with her on that.
You know, of course I'm gonna sing. I think there
was a performance of I'm Here that I had to

(33:16):
do after like the last crazy election that we had
to do and people were like in tears. I knew
that I had to go to work to be like, hey,
we're okay. And I was asked to sing Imagine at
the Glad Awards after Pulse in dedication to of course
I'm going to come in and sing that because we're

(33:37):
going to be okay.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Do you feel that way? I do?

Speaker 4 (33:42):
I do.

Speaker 5 (33:43):
I really believe that that is my work and to
validate people's feelings, the feelings that we have through music.
I really think that there is a bigger purpose at
hand when you have a voice, when you can use
music to connect with people. Not enough to just sing
a song, what is the point? Yeah, but if you

(34:06):
can use music and tune and notes and lyric to
connect to validate a person's feelings, to send them off
and feeling better, to tell them that we move through this,
it's going to be okay, that this is a gateway
to healing. I'm happy to do that.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah. It's funny because your performance of Alfhie, like I
always knew the song, yeah, you know what I mean,
but it was like I was hearing it for the
first time and it was so funny because like I
had gone through a situation with someone and didn't realize
that that song was speaking to that experience until I was,
and it actually empowered me because it's like, I know

(34:50):
what love is really is, right, you know what I mean?
And it's twofold. It's you expressing and telling that story
but also honoring her. Yeah, and I wonder like, did
you have a conversation with this Warwick afterwards?

Speaker 5 (35:02):
Yeah, she's very happy because she's very happy.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
She's tough, but she was happy. She was happy.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
She said, no, you didn't need to sing it like that,
so be careful now.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Thank you, thank you very.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Much, major moment.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
Yeah, she was happy and they can see her up
in the box and she was like for Clempton, you know, tearful,
and I was like, okay, I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
The thing of them watching you and that type of
too is so wise.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yea.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
The Kennedy Center is something that is so grand.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
It's it's one of those you have to figure out
how to fill the room. Yeah, And for me, I
have to fill the room standing in the spot. That's
what I do. I stand and sing. And so every
detail for me is like, what's the dress that's not
the right one. We need this, and what's the orchestration?
We need this orchestration. No, one're not going to if
we rush this and we make this two beats too fast,

(35:54):
it's not gonna it won't land the way. We need breath,
We need space. And I had spoken to the orchestrator, Lenny,
who is amazing. I said, do not do not start
this until I am set at the mic and I
take a breath. We have to reset. I need to
reset before we begin. And he didn't because the production

(36:15):
wanted me to. They wanted the music to start before I.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Because they wanted to move there.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
You can you dare wait.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's a hospitality principle. It's like you have to be
unreasonable about the way you make people feel. Yes, and
that is that is what you are doing. And I
loved this interview that you and Renee Rap had at
Electrically that you guys are related by being Capricorns, Like
this is I think, is this part of Capricorn identity,
like having this sort of vision, having the conviction I
think to tell yourself, like this is what this charge was.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yes, this is the charge, this is the job, this
is how I'm going to do it.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Very clear about that. Yeah, because this.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Thing of you guys talking about how like you need
to believe it sounds and I'm just saying wrong in
my it myself at this It's like I always didn't
really quite believe the idea of like you got to
believe in yourself or else nobody else will. It's like,
but then like it doesn't make any sense any other way. Yeah,
you know what I mean. That has to be the
sequence of things in order for you to like do
what you guys do.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, because there are literally times where only you believe
the thing that is going to happen, uh huh, and
there's no one else. But why should anyone else believe
if you don't, like why there's no reason to. But
if you know and you have a clarity about what
it is you're meant to do and what you're and
how you're meant to do it, then it's easy for
someone else to.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
See it right, because you can you can see it.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, you talk about getting involved with the color purple
and a sort of not low fi but like not
necessarily a production in England that seemed like it was
going to do what it is Now, would you consider
that to be the biggest risk you've taken? Is like
really going for that role on that scale?

Speaker 4 (37:54):
I don't think it was a risk at all.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
I was so sure that it was meant to be
doing it. I was so sure, And it could have
been in I don't know someone's front room and it
did not matter. I just knew if it was coming,
I was meant to do it. I was so clear
about it. There was not one part of me that
was like, well, this is risky. I don't know what
I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I was.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
I was so sure about it.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
You were on towards Distract, you heard that it was.
It was like they were seeing people for it.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
Yes, and they said I want to play the role. Dang, yeah,
I'm going to be doing that.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
Yeah, And everyone else was like, but are you sure,
Like what if they ask you to do like the
first cover? I was like no, no, no, I want
to play the role. I know that the role is
what I'm supposed to be doing. And the first cover
is amazing, But this is a role the role I want.
I know, I'm so sure about it. This is what
I want?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, what what is that?

Speaker 4 (38:45):
Is that? Intellectual? Emotional?

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Like?

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Where does that?

Speaker 4 (38:48):
I think it's both.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
I think it's like in the first instant, it was
like a guttural emotional knowledge.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Yes, then it became how am I going to do?
How am I going to do it? Yes? Yeah? I
love that so much? How much my life is like this? No,
but this is but like look where it's gotten, you know, you.

Speaker 5 (39:08):
Know, like the emotion is there, and like the feeling
is there, and then task this.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
It's not holding you back in any way. So like
what's wrong with that?

Speaker 4 (39:18):
You know?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
How do you unwind? What? What do you do to?

Speaker 5 (39:22):
I need a sleepy time tea? And I love a tea.
I will carry a tea with me everywhere I go.
But it's bedtime, I you know, I get myself in
my pjs. I like a particular PJ. Like I will
wear an outfit to bed.

Speaker 8 (39:35):
You know.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
I love to dress. It's a look European thing. Yeah,
I have to dress my perfume.

Speaker 5 (39:41):
I get ready, my routine full, get the whole thing.
Then I will like get cozy. I'll put on a
movie or a TV show they feel bad, and then
I'll journal and then seek.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
That's my thing.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Do you watch comedies or do you like to comedies
or like like dramas? Nothing crazy, nothing crazy.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
I can't you know people who watched like sixty minutes
before bed or like the first twenty four hours.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Well, yeah, I was. I don't know how you do it.

Speaker 5 (40:09):
No, it's too much for me. I don't want to
watch that. Of course, daytime for me watching those things,
But for me it's nighttime, like something light, fair, right, fun,
something that lifts, and then.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
To bed and then up at what five am.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
Sometimes doing five and seven, to run, to walk, to
pilates whatever.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
I have to do something.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
You and Michelle Yoh every day on set on production
of Wicked, just the most godly people, both of you,
getting up, doing your runs, doing your workouts. I'm like,
I need to get my shit together.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
I was so an r but there was no other
way to do this role. You think, so I just
I couldn't. I needed I needed the.

Speaker 5 (40:52):
Physical movement, not just for like the actual physicality of it,
but for the emotion of it all I needed to
be physical because I needed to make sure my body
was ready for like the flight work. Harness work doesn't
work if you haven't got your call together, if you
haven't got your body together. It really does have to
get ready for what kind of onslaught you get when
you're in a harness and flights and singing?

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, I have a question, and I think we can
talk about this. So we basically had twelve days left
of shooting and then sack strike happened. And I will
say that the way things were segmented define gravity was
the last was the last thing that was So I'm thinking, Wow,
Cynthia is holding on to this and considering this, and

(41:38):
it's all leading up to like this thing that is
going to be talked about and will be very difficult
to pull up. And it's a collaborative thing with you
and with John and with everybody. And then the strike happens. Yes, wild, wild,
sort of like stoppage. You're not just dropped.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Out the bridge and then you don't cross.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Exactly What was that like for you? What was it
like to go back to it?

Speaker 4 (42:04):
At first?

Speaker 5 (42:05):
It started off like torture, like because I was I
felt like I was ready, yeah, because we had gotten
right there and I was like, okay, we're ready. I'm ready,
like I'm game fit, I'm good to do this. And
then I had to accept we weren't coming back quickly.
But you don't let go of. They don't go anywhere.
The character is sort of like sitting in you sort
of like so I'm still like getting my body ready,

(42:27):
working out, working like I'm still on set but not
on site on so I'm like doing all those things,
trying to like feed my body, making sure that I'm
working out the way you need to work out, making
sure that I'm keeping my voice the way I need
it to be, and like checking in and but also
having to let it go just a little bit so
that I don't drive myself insane because it's still there

(42:49):
and I'm still waiting. And also there's like the anticipation
of having to do it. It never really left until
we get until we come back. And when I come back,
I was like ready, yeah, ready to do it, and
then I get ill.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Oh, I forgot about this.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
What happened?

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Just the worst kind of you? I mean, my skin
was hurting. It was horrible.

Speaker 5 (43:13):
The day after my birthday, I was in on my
birthday rehearsing and training for flying the next day total.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Total, I remember I had wrapped and then I came
back to New York and then they were like Cynthia.
I was like, God, this let this woman live, Let
this woman know.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
I was.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
I was, And when I say you, I was. I
was so sick, like running a fever. The fever would break,
then the fever would come back again. Concerning sick, yeah,
I was like, when is this going to stop? It
just went on for like a week. The whole week,
week and a half. I was done down. So I
was like, Okay, what are we going to do this right?

(44:02):
Because at this point I'm annoyed with myself. I'm like,
why is this happening now?

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (44:08):
I mean, is there something in retrospect now where you're like, God,
it was like one last mountain to scale?

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (44:14):
I think so. I think it's weird.

Speaker 5 (44:15):
I think the universe was forcing me to earn it,
really earn it. Wow.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
So when I really got there.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Used to relax.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
She always doing the.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
Most, always doing the most, was making me earn ship.
Leave me alone for a second, please, because I'm always
working bitchy, but like, it really was that last sort
of like let's see, do you really want to do this?
It really felt like that, And so when we got here,
I was like, right, right, let's go, let's do this.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Yeah, you fucking earned it. That's that's all we can say.
Thank you, but god it is. This is what I'm
telling people. This is my little press quote, my favorite
last ten minutes of a film in cinema history. It's
epic than and I will say, and people know the story,
like I think I was watching again last night. I
was like, oh my god, Cynthia, it is so dialed
in every single frame of the levels of betrayal that

(45:10):
I was setting in in that moment when you find
out what you were brought to do. I was like,
every moment of this, when you walk to the Grimmary,
and when you take it with you, when you run away,
I'm like, it's all perfect, it's all perfect, Cynthia.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
And John just let me go. He just was like,
here's where you're moving to. Yep, just go, we'll follow you.
We'll follow you. What did it feel and asked what
it felt like when it was a picture.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
App I crumbled because it was the last one, and
I can't even describe the feeling because it was, you
know when the only time I felt similar was the
last show for the Color Purple, where you're carrying something

(46:05):
for a really long time and like happy to carry it,
like it's the best possible weight you could you can hold,
and you're like, this is I'm carrying, It's part of me. Yeah,
and then that you hear it's closed or that wrap,
and it's like someone takes the weight from you and
puts it down. Yeah, it was like putting a piece

(46:27):
of myself down for a bit. And it was so
quiet that last shot because we'd finished shooting Defying Gravity
and they had like just one little incidental to shoot
left and it was just like me lifting flowers in
a hole or something. And I just was like, it
was so quiet.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
And it felt right for it to be quiet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Do you think in those moments because it's alphabet, because
it's silly, the reason why it means so much is
because you're genuinely saying goodbye to that character. I would
imagine that silly is not something you'll revisit.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, and literally not like probably not alphabe unless it's
for like a Universal Studios riety not to bring that up,
but it's like, and that will be that.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
It's saying bye to really close friends. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
So I would imagine like these things that they have impact,
but really it's like because it's personal, that's what it is.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
It's like, it's great taking care of a person for
a real long time. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's great. I
cried for like hours after that. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:32):
I couldn't like get rid of the feeling. And the
day after was so weird. I just didn't even know
what to do with myself.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Yeah, how could you not?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
And it has probably nothing to do with oh this moment,
maybe I could have done this that it's genuinely it's
like a human relationship.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Like taking the green off for the
first time was wow, yeah, I'm not doing this again.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
And you probably get used to that in some regard
with theater, you know, because you that's the thing about
being in this business that I think is one of
the things that takes at least me by surprise. And
I would imagine everyone is, oh, I come in here
and I make really great relationships, and then they do end,
you know, you you've maintain those people in your life,

(48:18):
like you'll always be friends with so and so, and
you'll always have that memory. But you don't go to
work again when everyone else does. And so it's not
just those people, it's that person you play when you
put so much into it.

Speaker 5 (48:31):
Yeah, I guess for Alphabet, particularly because she's such a transformation,
because I do spend like three hours getting her together
in the morning, right, you know, she doesn't like you
have to care to put her together, and then she appears.
You know, it really was like, oh, I'm letting someone go,
Like I'm never going to see this person again. It's

(48:53):
not like, you know, Celi's wonderful, but she had my face.
You know, I don't have to really her on. You
put her on, but it's like a wig and an outfit.
Alphabet was a complete transformation. I disappeared when Alfabet came
into the room.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
It was a beautiful construction, like a craft's like a
work of crafts.

Speaker 5 (49:14):
Yeah, person, everyone, the amount of work that went to
putting her together, the people that you know, the relationships
you make with those people who are with you for
two and a half hours before anyone else sees you
in the morning, at the crack of dawn, and then
at the end of the night they helped sweetly take
her off again and you put to bed.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
But this last time, that was the last time.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, because she existed for a while, yes, and now
she does exist, but like in that way. But yeah,
I understand what you're saying. Fascinating. We have to ask
you the central question of our podcast. Yes, so do
you want to pose the question, yes, Cynthia Riva. What
is the culture that made you say a cultureist? For me,
the formative kind of cultural thing that made you who

(49:59):
you are?

Speaker 5 (50:00):
The cultural thing who made that made me who I?
I guess music, Huh, the culture of music, because there
is a culture of it. I think that's the thing
that I actually think. It's the first language I learned.
I think it's the first thing I understood. My mum
says that I was singing when I was two, Wow,
and I was putting words together. But like you're still

(50:21):
figuring out sentence structure when you're two, But I.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Knew communicating in music in you tune Oh interesting?

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Yeah, wow, that I think made me very much who
I am.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
And then would you say there was like a moment
of understanding on a technique or a technical level what
it was.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
I think when I was about eleven, I really understood it.
I knew I could make the sound. When I was
about five and between five and the age of like ten,
I was sort of playing around with singing a little bit,
singing with friends. But when I was eleven, I realized, oh,
there's something I can do with this. This is there's
a way I can you use my voice and change

(51:02):
the way things sound and mess around with things like
That's when I start to have a real technical understanding
of what it was.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yes, So I think that's something that becomes really obvious,
like as you get older as an artist, is that
there's singing and there's performance, and then there's being a
recording artist, and those two things are so different. But
what you just said about like creating sound and using
your voice in different ways is something that there is
so much opportunity and with recorded Ye. Nick, So I
know that you are working on a new project and

(51:30):
that you worked with Arianna to do that.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Yes, So basically what happened was I've recorded an album before,
and the experience was not necessarily experienced that I wanted
for myself, and it just was checkered with a whole
bunch of stuff that wasn't right for me. And she
and I had like a really sweetheart to heart. I
sat down and I talked to her about my experiences
and what's going on. She was like, well, it's because

(51:55):
I had really interesting relationships with managers that just didn't
really understand and it got a little toxic from time
to time. And she was like, well, that's because she
don't need a manager, cyntheas, because you already know what
you want. What you need is a good label. What
you need is a good team producer and yeah, and
you need people who understand your idea and can help

(52:16):
you execute the idea. And so we started talking and
it just so happens that we're under the same label,
but it's a different conglomerate, different imprint. So she introduced
me to her imprint and I started having conversations, and
now I'm under a joint venture. So it meant that
I had the care from the people that I wanted
the care from before, and then new care from a

(52:37):
team that was ready and raring to go and that
really understood the story I wanted to tell, and so
I've been I've finished writing now the songs are written
like five seconds away from being fully ready. And whilst
I was writing it was sending it to her and
having her listen to it, sending back and forth, getting

(52:58):
her opinion, and she said, the whole.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Thing incredible resource in terms of it's been amazing.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
Yeah, it's been like to be able to get her
ear on things because I trust her ear implicitly has
been really really monumental.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
And now I'm kind of ready.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
So we're putting it, finishing touches and getting it all
done and by hopefully next year you'll have it.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Wow. What is it?

Speaker 8 (53:22):
Giving cool way to ask that people always ask, like,
what's the genre?

Speaker 5 (53:30):
I think there are several genres just because of who
I am and my upbringing in music. My inspirations can
come from anywhere from Anya to Aretha Franklin, so there's
a lot of different mixes in between. So there's things
that ended up being country, but I didn't mean them
to sound like country. And they are pieces that are
very R and B because that's what I've raised on.
And there are pieces that feel sort of like a

(53:52):
little left field. It's a very eclectic album, but the
through line is vocal padding. So I've used my vocal,
my voice as an instrument. So you'll each song has
its own vocal pattern, vocal rhythm, very specific to the song.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
But that's just what happened.

Speaker 5 (54:09):
And so each song starts with the voice first, and
then we had instruments afterwards. A lot of what we
compose and what we made started with the voice.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
And it's because my A and R who is now
the President of Republic, Wendy, who is amazing, and she
said do you know about Enya? And I knew exactly
what she meant immediately. And there is a song on
Enya's album that is the basis for Ready or Not

(54:38):
Fuji's Ready or Not.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yes, yes, And at the moment that yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Exactly, and I was like, oh yeah, I understand.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
Wow, Yeah, that the idea that you can put two
different things together, make them collide and they make this
one special thing. I just loved that idea because both
those pieces, both the Any piece and the fujispiece are
vocal forward.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Yes, So I was like, unforgettable.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
That I can do that. I understand. She's like, your
voice is an instrument, so just use it that way
because it's.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Really cool if you don't mind me saying, like, you
can do like the Ena Panning on let's say ready
or not and then also give the Lauren Hill exactly.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, that's really exciting for you to find that. Yeah,
it's also really interesting because Arianna has her thing with
image and heat and so that's like almost like another
way that you.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Can connect speak to each other.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love the Vanity Fair piece that
Chris Murphy our friend.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
The best sweetheart wonderful and I read how he wrote that.
It just it was I was so touched and moved
that that's what he really got us.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Yeah, he got you guys. I read it.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I just felt you guys through the piece and I
mean it ends on you in this really beautiful way
and it just and I texted you read out. I
was like, this is so I'm crying, this is so perfect.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Oh, very proud of So the album will be next,
albums next, yeah, and then is there It's crazy to
even think like after you do something like Alpha, but
obviously there's going to be years and decades more, but
what do you want to do next? Like what's the next?

Speaker 4 (56:09):
What are you.

Speaker 5 (56:10):
Exactly what I want to do next, But I don't
know if I can say, because I don't want to
like jinx myself and get myself into trouble.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
You can tell us after, I'll tell you.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
But I know what I want to do next. But
on top of which, my production company is working on
a series right now and that seems to be going
quite well. It looks like it might be greenlit very soon,
where like in the final processes of doing that, so
that would be it would be my project, and that
might come to TV soon. But I want to just
I want to I loved how big and explorative this

(56:40):
particular piece was.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
I want to do that more. I want to just
be adventurous with it.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Yeah, and there's a play called Prima fasci Oh course
it happened, and we're turning it into a movie, and.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
You're doing the film. Oh I saw it with Jody.
I'm in and it's just it's it's a great piece
of work.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
And we've been we've been through the mill with it
because we're supposed to have it. We're supposed to have
shot it last year the strike and then we lost
some of the funding. But I think we're okay, everything,
we're coming back together and think we're getting a funding.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
It's a preproduction. I don't know. The funding is still coming.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
Funny, still coming up. But what I think we've found it.
So I think that that.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Is a tour de force. That is a tall order.

Speaker 5 (57:22):
That is you're running to run, running into the fire.
But I think the more these characters turn up that
desires something, that need their voices to be heard, that
like feel powerful and not in the stereotypical sense of
the world, but like have a power in them, I'm there.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
That's what I want to do. Wow.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Yeah, one final thing. Yes, I was reading Middle March
on set. Oh yeah, and I remember you got a copy?

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Do you have a copy? I haven't ready. I haven't.
I haven't finished it either. I was going to ask
you if you finished it. Haven't ready yet.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
It's a big one, yeah, Jelly, a huge book. But
it's supposed to be amazing.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Okay, well I'm going into it. I'm gonna get yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
Actually, well, actually what I want to do is take
like a couple of series on tour with me.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
We can move through. So Middle March I make take
with me as well. Could be good. I still have
to finish a little life. I have to.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
Oh my god, it's hard. I know it's hard, and
I've put it off for a really long time. But
I know it's going to be good, and I have
to just suck it up and pick it up and
just read.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
I have to have to be in the right environment.
And I tried to read it on a plane and
I started to have an anxiety. I can't do this
on a No. No, it was because it's kind of
rough and tumble, like from the jump, oh like and
then it gets way worse.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
But like, yeah, Hanya, she doesn't mess No, no, no, no.
Are you ready for the tour?

Speaker 5 (58:49):
Yes, very much. I think it's absolutely manic and crazy
and wild. But I'm okay, but so fun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Are the looks picked out?

Speaker 4 (58:58):
The looks are picked out. Okay, that would be such
a fun.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
At least topics the premiers have definitely picked out, like
fine tuning things, but we're picking all the like the
things in between.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
We're trying to make sure that we're considered for everything. Sure.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, and so like the green of it all, Yes,
did you have a good relationship with that color before that?

Speaker 5 (59:17):
Actually, my favorite color, perfect, which is the strangest, craziest thing.
That is my favorite color and now people think I'm
just wearing it for this and I'm not. I had
a lot of green and my this is just an
opportunity to get more.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Thank you for.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
This is this is a beautiful I'm.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Really proud of this.

Speaker 5 (59:33):
I found this in a Paris vintage shop and it
is an original.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Yeah, that is just hard to find. Yeah, really special.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Last night at the c FDA, you did black though
right the hood. It was beautiful, you were giving thank
you kind of nice to like step out of it
for us second and just have your isolated c FDA fashion.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
It was nice.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
Ye yes, yes, yes, it was my little such of
green on my neck and that was just the touch touch.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Yeah, that dress. I loved. It made me feel so dress.

Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
Well, it's like Gaps by zac pos And he'll say
Gap Studios, but he has now he is an Ataalie
with Gap now and that's what.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
You have a great relationship with zac Posen.

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
When I when I came to New York, I like
nobody knew who I was and I have a stylist.
But this thing color purple was really taking off and
I was like well, I have all these events to
go to and I have nothing with me. I have
my clothes, but they're not it's not right for these
very special events. So I went to his studio and
he I fit for like a dress, but he sent

(01:00:40):
me away with like nine yeah, and separates and things
that I could throw on if I needed, if you know.
He just really took care of me and has done
ever since. Yeah, it's just a sweetheart.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
It's an incredibly fun part of it for an artist too,
like because it's more storytelling, which I don't think people
realize on the outside. It's like this is another opportunity.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Well, I'm just.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Saying like you and Ari are such perfect people for
the scale of this kind of thing, because to me,
it kind of all began with the Metal or with
the Oscars and then the mec Gala. But just like
all the footage out of the Meccal, even though it's
really supposed to film any that's like all of it
that came out. I was just like, holy ship, this
is this is going to be major works.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
It works together.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Yeah, but you're both such good fashion music.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Yeah, we love I mean, it's terrible the two of
us are like, so did you see this? As I
saw this? What do you think of that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
For her?

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
Just sent me something, Hey, I saw this, and I
think it's very used.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
It's the worst influences for each other because we sort
of like get what we need and what we want
and she'll send it to me and she knows I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
Going to be like good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
It's it's lovely. It's lovely that someone gets you that way.
It's nice to share in that way. Yeah, it's another
way we can share creatively. Of course, working with my besties,
I did, I have to say this, and I say it.
I never say when you're there because like always talking
and passing. But boone has to be one of the
most astute and intelligent performers I've ever privilege of being

(01:02:11):
on a set with no no no no no no
no no no no, I mean it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
No, I mean it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
And you know you have to understand, I'm a capron.
I don't like anybody. I don't say anything to anyone
unless I mean it. And I really do like your
ability to pick up on the surroundings and riff on
what you see is second to none. Is so fucking
fast it's amazing. It is amazing to what you work.

(01:02:37):
Just like picking on the surroundings, on a detail on
someone's clothing. I'm just like, it's just Some of my
favorite moments in the film are things you just say
off the car.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Oh my god, I see color.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
En roll here often.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Anything anything. I mean, Cynthia, thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
I just the details. It's the details. She needs a pastry.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
And I'm just telling you like I.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Was because John God blessed him, like gave me a
lot of latitude, let's say, And I was gladly going
to do it. But then at the back of my mind,
I was always like, this is a bajillion dollar two
movies and he's gonna let me ad lib and like
step on Winnie Holtzman's perfect words. I was like, no way,
is this gonna make it into the movie. This isn't
going to work. And then I will say, and I'm

(01:03:31):
so quick to judge myself and be like, oh no,
that that didn't work on a comedy level.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
I'm like, John am Che the director, you are like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
It all kind of fits fit it, truly.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Somehow he made my nonsense like work in the in
the world.

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
Because it wasn't nonsense because it was observation. That is
the difference, Cynthia. You know what I'm saying. It's like
really detailed observations. Every time something comes out of your mouth,
it is an observation, which I love, Like, yes, she
needs a pastry, is funny on that, but you're like
in the situation, it's like please when a pastry she's

(01:04:09):
you know, it's it's so brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
You're just spectacular.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
I had the best time, and you're so kind as well,
so like, thank you makes me so happy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Okay, So this is our sixty second segment. Okay, where
we rant and rail against something in culture that I'm
bothering us. We're gonna do it, and I understand their pointing,
but this is happening. So I have something and it's
a musical observation I'm making about the people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Okay, great, Okay, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think
so many time strets now, I don't think so, honey,
people who don't listen to lyrics and music.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
You're a friend of ours just said, huh, what's this
song about? About Sabrina Carpenter's juno. So here's what Sabrina
Carpenter's Juno is about it's about being so into someone
that you would like them to make you Juno. This
is referencing the Elliott Page, the low Cody team up Juno. Yes,
this is about being so sexually interested in someone you

(01:05:10):
wouldn't mind if you got pregnant.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Right, I'm gonna let you make me Juno.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
You know, I was like, she's even being tongue in
cheek after listen to words. If you want to listen
to beautiful orchestrations, I think so, honey, But the words
it all comes together. You're gonna just listen to.

Speaker 8 (01:05:28):
The tunes of when Cynthia says Alfie, listen to the
words you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
The story, especially to Rennicover to Juno, I'm like, this
is a lyrical masterpiece. I was like, let's give it
it's due. Second, you can't just listen to music, listen
to words, understand, feel, then emote. You can to listen
to words or right words, explore words, be words. And
that's one man I could never say who. A friend

(01:05:55):
of ours was like, what is this song about?

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
I was like, if you? But it's also maybe like
a thing about not knowing references like not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Maybe it was that, but I was like, this movie
was famous.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
It was, it was, it was, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
It is, okay, all right, So this is Bowen Yang's
I don't think so, honey, his time starts now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
Walker's chips not being available in the United States, Oh
it is. It is a British staple. Walkers are not Lais.

Speaker 5 (01:06:24):
It's not.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
They have the same logos, but it's not the same.
Different textures, different things. This is different flavors. I need more.
Why is there such a weird barrier between British snacks
and American snacks? True, they need to come together where
we basically have the same palettes and the same tastes.
I think we would appreciate more of a crossover. I'm
not saying like one should replace the other. I'm saying
they can coexist in the same markets, which is the

(01:06:48):
American market, which you know I am biased towards because
I happen to live here. So I just think Walkers
you can find them in your specialty shops. But I
think we need more access to just the wider gamut
of Walker's chips and favorite flavors.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
I'm I love a straight of ready salted.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Yes, salted Walkers. It's simple, but it's good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
And the Sultan vinegar is not the same as the
salt vinegar. It's just not. It's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
And we need we just need seconds. There is I've
rendered about persty pigs. They need to be more available
as well. And Walker's chips is included.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
And that's one minute. One of the joys of my
life was coming back from London and I was able
to gift Bow and his persy pigs because it's his
great distress.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
My sister got well, now I know whenever I go,
I'll pick it up. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Yeah, okay, all right, we get it in the out
of here synthory. But I don't think so any time
starts now.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
I don't think so.

Speaker 5 (01:07:34):
Honey is onion and garlic in everything. I can't take it.
I fucking hate it. I can't steal with the idea
that the way you cook is only with onion and garlic.
Every time I see someone a cooking thing, they cut
up onions and garlic so much and neglect to use
any other flavoring in food. As a person who's actually
allergic to garlic, and my body just does not process
it at all. I've had to find out ways to

(01:07:56):
cook food using other herbs and spices, and it works.
You can get just as much taste out of an
old bay and a bay leaf and an acidphatida, which
is actually tastes a little bit like garlic, but doesn't
give you the same horrible feeling that garlic does. If
you just use your imagination and cook. I think people

(01:08:16):
have stopped using your imagination about how they cook, and
they use the basic, basic herbs, and they always go
for onion garlic, and I cannot take it because the
worst thing is when someone comes in and they just
reeking of garlic. When you can avoid that and still
have flavorful food if you decide.

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
To use your imagination. And that is my minute.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Oh oh so, like thank god you're allergic to something
that sucks like it sucks, you smell awful, you feel awful,
Different different aromatics, different favor basis.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Yeah, I don't understand. And everyone's I the amount of
people who are like, well, how do you eat? What
do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Just stunningly talent.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
And you know when I walk into a room, you
can't smell.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Fas can't clock me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
You can't clock my sen What do you think of ginger?
He did, I don't think money on ginger.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
Pickle ginger is better. Thank you. Try pickle ginger. It's
a different flavor. I love it becomes sweeter, become sweeter,
and it's just a nice little.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
This has been so it's so amazing to get to
know you and to have you here, and you are Alpha,
bra It's it's and thank god that you are. Thank
you so brilliant. We usually end every episode with a song,
but I just want to if you have two lines
of anything on your spirit right now that you could sing,

(01:09:34):
what is it to end this episode?

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
Or it could be one.

Speaker 5 (01:09:37):
This is not to do with anything, but I've been
listening to this lately and it's one of my favorite songs.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
Why by Annie Lennox.

Speaker 5 (01:09:43):
Oh I may be mad, I'm maybe blind, I'm maybe viciously,
I'm kind, but I can still read what you're thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
I've heard it said too many times. You'd be better off.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
Besides, why can't you see that this book is sinking?
This boat is sinking this boat.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Oh my god, it is the most beautiful song.

Speaker 7 (01:10:08):
You're a brilliant last culture racist is the production by
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players in the Heart Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Podcasts created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Executive produced by Anna Hasnier and Hans.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Sani, Produced by Beck Ramos, edited mixed by Doug Bamim
and Niklaboord.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
And our music is by Henrykbersky. Hey everybody, it's me
Matt Rogers, letting you know. Tickets are on sale now
to see me on tour, the Prince of Christmas Tour,
that is, I'm doing my whole album Have You Heard
of Christmas? Plus a lot more with the whole band
all throughout December. Go to www dot Matt Rodgers Official

(01:10:49):
dot com See me in a city near you