Author Reyna Grande is an inspirational and award- winning author. Her memoirs include A Dream Called Home and The Distance Between Us, which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award.
Her novels include, Across a Hundred Mountains which draws heavily on her own experience as an undocumented immigrant, Dancing With Butterflies, and most recently, A Ballad of Love and Glory.. From her immigration journey to being a struggling single mom, to dealing with feelings of abandonment when her own mother ran away with a wrestler , Reyna is a latina taking the lead that will definitely inspire us.
Follow her @writerreynagrande
You can find her books here: reynagrande.com/
For more information on the Emerging Voices Fellowship program visit their website.
https://pen.org/emerging-voices-fellowship/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I had to deal with a lot of mother's guilt
because every time I walked out the door with my
little suitcase, I remember when my mother walked away from us,
and so I would feel guilty that I was leaving
my kids and that, you know, here I am going
off into the world to pursue my dreams. And then
(00:30):
I'll think about my mother and this is what my
mother had done.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to Latina's Take the lead. Our guest today is
Rena Grande, an inspirational and award winning author. Her memoirs
include A Dream called Home and The Distance between Us,
which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award.
Her novels include Across a Hundred Mountains, which draws heavily
on her own experience as an undocumented immigrant, Dancing with Butterfly,
(01:00):
and most recently, A Ballad of Love and Glory. Her name,
translated into Spanish, means grand Queen, and she might just
earn that title in the publishing space. From her immigration
journey to being a struggling single mom to dealing with
feelings of abandonment when her own mother ran away with
the wrestler, Rena is talking all about this and much
(01:24):
much more. She is a Latina taking the lead. That
will definitely inspire us. Let's begin, So Reina and Whichell Glassas,
thank you so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How did you start your career as an author?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah? Well, I started writing when I was thirteen, but
I definitely didn't think that I could be a writer,
a professional writer. One day, I just knew that I
like to write, and it made me feel better, you know, emotionally, mentally, fit, sickly.
I always felt better writing, so that was my favorite
(02:04):
way of expressing myself. But it wasn't until I got
to college. I went to Pasadena City College that my
English teacher there was the one who put that idea
in my head that I should pursue a career as
a writer. Thanks to my English teacher at PCC, I
transferred to u SIE Santa Cruz as a creative writing major.
(02:26):
I discovered that they had a film and video major,
and so I added that as a major as well.
I really feel that my film major helped me with
my creative writing major because it allowed me to see
storytelling in a different way. So every book I've written,
(02:47):
it's a movie in my head. When I write it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Have you already like what your toes in filmmaking or
TV making or is that part of your bigger plan?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Oh? You know, I did not have much luck in
that because after I graduated, I went back to LA
and I tried. I tried finding work in the film industry,
but almost everything that I found was non paid, you know,
(03:19):
internships that didn't pay you anything, And as much as
I wanted to do them, I couldn't. You know, I
had student loans to repay. I didn't have a place
to live. I was crashing on my brother's couch in
his living room, and so because of financial reasons, I
(03:41):
wasn't able to really stick it out that long in
trying to find work in the film industry. So then
I became a teacher for LA Unified and I kept writing.
You know, at least with writing, I could do it
after work on my own time and my kitchen table
and just right. But I feel very sad that I
(04:04):
wasn't able to get very far with the film stuff.
I would love to one day have that opportunity to
do something in film, so it's, you know, it's hopefully
one day it could happen.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I feel like it's just a matter of time, because
how could we not capitalize on your talent as a
writer to see your words on the small screen and
on the big screen one day. So I definitely feel
like that is probably in the cards for you, and
I hope that it is because we need to have
more Latina voices out there right on screen as well.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So when you graduated from college, you tried to break
into the film industry, and then you decided that wasn't
paying the bills, so you became a teacher. And then
right after while you were a teachers, when you got
your first opportunity to be published by a major publisher.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was very lucky because one day I decided to
take a weekend writing class. So then I signed up
for a weekend class through the UCLA Extension Writers Program,
and the teacher for that class was Marie Amparo Escandon,
and Maria Amparo asked me if I had ever heard
(05:26):
of Penn Center USA's Emerging Voices Program, and I hadn't,
so she told me it was a fellowship for aspiring
writers of color. So I applied right on the deadline.
I got the fellowship and it was through this fellowship
Emerging Voices, which still exists today. Luckily, that's where I
(05:50):
met my agent. I sent her my novel a few
months later and she took me on as a client,
and then she started pitching my novel to you know,
many publishers, and I got twenty six rejections, but number
twenty seven, which was Atria at Simon and Schuster. So
(06:11):
that's how I got published.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Nice. And was that for The Distance between Us or
was that for another book?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That was for Across one hundred Mountain Yeah, across hunder Mountains.
It's my first book. But because The Distance between Us
is my best selling book, a lot of people seem
to think that that was my first book, but it's
actually my third. And you know, while I was writing
(06:39):
Across one hundred Mountains, I was a full time middle
school teacher and I was a single mother of toddler,
and it was difficult to try to write, you know,
try to make that time to write. But at the
same time, I really wanted to not give up on
(06:59):
my dream, especially because I was a mother, I was
a single mom. I felt that I didn't want to
let motherhood define who I was, you know, and I
didn't want to sacrifice my dreams or put them on hold,
(07:20):
like so many women are expected to put their dreams
on hold just because they're they're moms, And so I
felt really hard not to fall into that, that expectation
that society puts on us.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How old is your little toddler? Now, he's probably a teenager, right.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
No, No, he's older, he's twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh wow wow, So that just proves how long you've
been doing this. You've been working on this craft, very
very long time.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, I'm going to be teaching in Alaska in May
at a writers' conference there, and I do I do
a lot of speaking, you know. I'm very fortunate because
I get as to speak a lot in like high
schools and colleges, universities, in other conferences, like giving keynotes.
(08:11):
And then of course I get royalties from my book sells,
so that's another source of income for me. And then
whenever I sell, I have a book to sell, you know,
then I'll get an advance from that. So with all
these different things that I have like going on, that's
(08:34):
how I have managed to be a full time author
without having to have a full time nine to five job.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I want to rewind a little bit and go to
the beginning of your path. You immigrated to this country
when you were nine, right, yes, yeah, so talk to
us about that journey of immigrating into this country.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, that is the topic for the Distance between Us,
where I write about being separated from my parents when
they both came to California to work, and my siblings
and I were left behind in Mexico for several years,
and so, you know, I've written a lot about that
(09:25):
trauma of family separation and the fear of growing up
as a child not knowing if I was ever going
to see my parents again. And then, you know, my
father came back when I was nine and a half
and he hired a smuggler to sneak us across the
(09:45):
border through the the Tijuana San Diego border. That's how
we came in, and my siblings and I arrived in
Los Angeles very excited, you know, to finally be with
our dad and to fin only have a family and
to be in the US. But it was difficult because
(10:08):
after all the years of being separated my father, and
my father was a total stranger to us and we
were strangers to him, and we really struggled to reconnect.
And also, you know, in Mexico, we had idolized and
romanticized the idea of my father and we have put
him up on a pedestal. And then we come to
(10:31):
live with the guy, and it turns out that he's
an abusive alcoholic, you know, And so we suffered a
lot of abuse from my father, which was very heartbreaking
because we spent so many years longing for this guy,
longing to have him in our lives, and imagining what
(10:52):
our lives would be like if we only had a father,
you know, and then we have to live with him,
and the reality us different than what we had imagined.
So my siblings and I it's interesting because to this
day we were still hurting from that, you know. Like
I was just talking to my brother a few days
(11:14):
ago about when my father was diagnosed with liver cancer
because of his alcoholism, and how hard it was for
us to go see him, to be there for him
because we were still hurt from the way he had
treated us as children. So that's still something I grapple with.
(11:39):
But one of the things I did I do appreciate
about my father very much is that when he brought
us to the US, he made it very clear what
his expectations were for us. You know, he wanted us
to go to school. He wouldn't put up with any
like any slack. He always demanded perfect grades, perfect attendance.
(12:06):
Even if we were sick, he would make us go
to school. You know. I remember one time I had
a fever and he still made me go to school.
And so he made me into a really good student
because he wouldn't tolerate less than that. And so all
through my like you know, K through twelve experience, and
(12:28):
even in college, I was an excellent student because that's
what my dad had expected of me. And you know,
he always talked about education and why education was so important.
And my father only went to the third grade, you know,
so for him to encourage his children to go to college,
(12:48):
to want to like to pursue a career like that
was really important to him. And I appreciate that about
my father because he definitely Netali helped me to focus
on school and to see that education was important and
to see that through education, I was going to succeed,
(13:11):
and he put that in my head.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, well, it's good that you can see both sides
of your dad. I think for a lot of Latino
families that you know, I include myself. My dad is
an alcoholic, gambling addict, macho, very strong man. That affected
me in a lot of ways. And I'm still, like
you said, grappling with that. So I feel like sometimes
the way that our mothers deal with this kind of
(13:38):
persona affects how we see men, or how we see relationships,
how we see ourselves. So, how did your mom deal
with a man like that and how did that affect
you as a woman.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, my parents split up when they were here in
the US. They split up. My father actually left my
mom for another woman, and after that, my mother became
a very neglectful mother towards us. You know, we often
(14:10):
felt that she blamed us or something, or she wanted
to take it out on us what my dad had
done to her. And so we didn't really have a
relationship with my mom because she came back to live
with us for a little bit in Mexico, and then
she ran off with the wrestler and she left us
on our own. When my father came back for us,
(14:34):
he brought us to live with him and his new wife,
and we grew up with him, not with my mom.
We would see her like once a month or so,
but we never had a good relationship with her. She
was always very indifferent. She never really seemed to care
about our well being. And so I I actually struggle
(15:01):
more in terms of my my feelings for my mother
than I do with my dad. Like I feel that
I've made my peace with my father, but with my mom,
I haven't yet. And I struggle with that because I
kept I kept thinking, you know, maybe she was a
terrible mom, but maybe maybe she could redeem herself later
(15:25):
when we have children. And yeah, and once my siblings
and I started having kids, we still continue to see
her being very indifferent. So I just I just decided
maybe that's just how she is and how she's always
going to be.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So when you said that she ran off with a wrestler,
like I mean, I'm sure people are like, why don't
you write about that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
She is.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And she's still like married to the rest He.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Died, he died, Yeah, No, he was a luchador. He
did lucha live and and cheer nough with him to
a Capulco because he had some some lucha libre over there,
and cheer ran off with him and and we stayed
behind with my grandma, and it was very sad, you know,
(16:25):
to feel that abandonment from my mom. And then yeah,
after the luchador died, she hooked up with another guy
and it was the same thing again. You know, we're
we're being We're not priority, we were never the priority
for my mother.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Well, I don't know if you use some of that
to fuel your writing or your creativity.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I do it. I do. I write a lot about
it because it helps me to understand some things. And
and I actually, you know, this complicated relationship with my
mother has impacted the way I'm a mother too, right,
I think, whether we want to or not, we're always
affected by the way our parents parent parented us and
(17:15):
then the way we parent are own children. And so
a lot of the things I grapple with, especially when
my kids were younger, was how, you know, I really
wanted to pursue my writing career, but that also meant
that oftentimes I had to leave my home, right and
(17:35):
even to this day, it's actually it's actually worse now
because I get more invitations to speak and so I'm
constantly living out of a suitcase, and I had to
deal with a lot of mother's guilt because every time
(17:55):
I walked out the door with my little suitcase, remember
when my mother walked away from us, And so I
would feel guilty that I was leaving my kids and that,
you know, here I am going off into the world
to pursue my dreams. And then I'll think about my
mother and this is what my mother had done. But
(18:17):
then I try to remember that it's a different It's
really different. It's not the same because I'm not running
running off to be with some other man, you know,
I'm not abandoning my children. I'm going to work for
a few days and then I come home, like, it's
not the same things. I constantly have to tell myself
(18:39):
that it's not the same, it's different. But I do.
I carry around a lot of guilt sometimes that I
think it's that fear, you know, of not wanting to
become like my mom. Right So, I've tried very hard
not to be like my parents, very hard, and yet
(19:01):
there's a few times when I feel that I'm becoming
my mom more I'm becoming my dad, and I have
to kind of push against that all the time.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Right, Well, I think the fact that you're conscious of
it means you're doing okay, like you're trying not you know,
you're conscious of that and you're sensitive to that. And
I totally can relate to that. You know that battle
inside and I the same thing, like with my son
(19:32):
when I'm busy, he's like, he's jealous of my laptop.
He's jealous of my computer. But I have to keep
explaining to him, you want that toy, right, and I
need to work in order for you to get that toy,
that lego or whatever it is. And we just do
the best we can. It's so hard, it's so hard
to just you know, we're human too, and the struggle continues.
(19:55):
And do you have more than one child?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah? I have a daughter fourteen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Oh that's amazing. She's going to go through all those
beautiful steps of prom and you could hopefully enjoy those
with her.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And yes, yes, definitely. She always reminds me, you know,
she'll say, you'll be here for Halloween, right, and I say, yes,
I'll be here for Halloween. I miss her birthday one time,
like five years ago. I miss her birthday, the one
and only birthday I've ever missed. And she still reminds
me that I wasn't there for that birthday. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Well, hey, one birthday out of fourteen eight is not
that Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, I feel like I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Pretty good. We'll be right back with more of Reina's
incredible story and her new book, A Ballad of Love
and Glory, and why she did not want to write
this book at first. Stay tuned. So, I also want
to talk about your new book, A Ballad of Love
and Glory. The story up because it is based on
(21:03):
real events, right, So yeah, what's the background of where
this novel takes place.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, so it takes place during the Mexican American War.
So it begins in March of eighteen forty six when
the US Army marches down to the Rio Grande to
provoke a war with Mexico, and then the novel ends
later in eighteen forty eight after the war is over,
(21:34):
after Mexico has lost half of its territory to the
United States, So it spans about two years the novel
and the two protagonists are John Riley, who's a real
historical figure. He was the leader of the Saint Patrick's
Battalion and he was an immigrant from Ireland. And then
(21:56):
the female protagonist is Jimena, who's Aqua who lives there
in what is now South Texas and her family is
from San Antonio, Texas. So she's a Tehannah and she's
a fictional character based on a poem written by John
Greenliff Whittier. So the novel is a it's a war story,
(22:22):
it's an immigrant story, and then it's a love story.
There's a lot of battles, you know, there's a lot
of brutality and carnage, and I didn't shy away from
writing about that because I really wanted the reader to
see and to feel what it's like when your country
is invaded. And so that's that's what the reader should
(22:48):
expect going into the book. And then of course there's
this beautiful love story between John and Himena, who really
do help each other survive this devastation moment.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'm curious you, as a writer, and now as a
renowned writer, when was the like, when is the seed
planted for you to start writing your next novel, like,
for example, a Ballad of Love and Glory? When was
that seed planted of like this is what I want
to write about.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, I actually didn't want to write this book. At first,
somebody gave me the idea. At an event, this man
came up to me and said, hey, have you ever
heard of the Saint Patrick's Battalion. I said, no, who
are they? And he said, oh, you know, there were
a unit in the Mexican Army composed of deserters from
(23:40):
the US Army and most of them were Irish, and
he said, you should write their story. And my idea.
My first thought was like, no, I don't want to
write that. You know, It's like it would be about war,
it would be about soldiers, it would be about battles
politics nineteen century, which I didn't live through. Like no, no, no, no, no,
(24:04):
like all these different reasons why I couldn't write this book.
But then I was fascinated by the Saint Patrick's Battalion.
I was fascinated by the fact that there had been
a group of deserters from the US Army who switched
sides to help Mexico defend itself, and the fact that
most of them were Irish was fascinating to me. And
(24:26):
then I started to do research on the Saint Patrick's Battalion,
and I understood why they did it, you know, And
I saw how the Irish must have seen Mexico becoming
another Ireland. Because Ireland had been oppressed by England for centuries.
The Irish had been dispossessed, and they had been turned
(24:49):
into landless peasants at the service of their English landlords.
And so I imagine that the Irish must have felt that
Mexico would soon become another Ireland at the hands of
a Protestant nation. And so I started to form this
(25:10):
emotional bond with John Riley and with the other soldiers.
And then, of course, you know, religion played a big
part too, because the Irish had not been allowed to
practice their religion in Ireland. They had been severely punished
for being Catholic, and when they were in the US Army,
(25:34):
they experienced a lot of ethnic discrimination and religious prejudice
in the US Army. And so some of them decided
they had enough of that mistreatment and they threw themselves
into the Rio Grande and they joined the Mexicans. And
then I realized, I really do want to write this
(25:55):
book after all, you know, I want to tell this story.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, And how long did it take for you to
complete with it?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Most it took me seven years, But I did put
the novel away twice during those seven years, and then
when I wrote a drink called Home, I put the
novel away again for another year. I like putting it
away so that then I could switch back to my
comfort zone, which is memoir, and once I recharged that battery,
(26:28):
then I would go back to it again and say, Okay,
I'm ready to like face all this daunting research again.
And what actually helped me finish the novel wasn't for
all was the pandemic, because during twenty twenty two and
twenty twenty one, I hardly left my home because all
(26:49):
my events got canceled and so was I was literally
stuck in my house with nothing to do.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But right, you know, you feel like there's been some
change in the publishing industry as far as the gatekeepers
allowing more Latino voices to be out there, more authentic
Latino voices. Do you think it's changed at all? We
know that there's a few years ago there was a
little upheaval with non authentic voices writing alleged Latino themed books,
(27:23):
et cetera. So do you think that's changed.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I want to be positive and say yes, it has
changed a little bit, not as much as we would like,
but I have definitely seen an increase in Latino titles
being published, especially this year. This year alone, I mean,
we had a lot of Latino titles come out, and
(27:50):
it's been great because so many of them, and even
last year to twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
I think have been really good years for for Latino literature,
and we had several titles ended up in a New
York Times bestseller's list, you know, Patricia Engo with Infinite Country,
(28:14):
Marian Paros Condon with La Weather, Sochi Gonzalees with how
Olgades Streaming, and just recently Javier Samora with Solito. You know,
So there's been there has been like established writers coming
(28:37):
up with new titles, but then there has also been
a lot of debut authors too that that I was
very happy to see, like Isabel Kanyas' debuted this summer
with her her novel The Aciena, and then Jesse Leone
debuted with his memoir I'm Not Broken, and then Rafaela
(28:58):
Gustine also made his debut this summer with Illegally Yours,
which is his memoir about being undocumented. So there's I
feel that there has been some really good stuff coming out,
but of course there should there should be more. You know,
(29:19):
there's a lot more that needs to come from the
Latino community, and I do hope that the publishing industry
continues to give more opportunities to Latino authors. And one
exercise that I like to do is to think about
the quote from Gloria and Saldua. I am a turtle.
(29:43):
Wherever I go, I carry home on my back. And
it's so important for like immigrants to think of a
home that we could carry with us, you know, So
what is the home that you carry? You know, so
make a list of all those things that you carry
with you and then use that as a you know,
(30:06):
you could use that to like write an essay about it.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, It's like a prompt, right, like a prompt.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
But I mean, I think one of the things I
always do tell aspiring writers is that you need to
be patient with the writing. You know, you cannot expect
that when you sit down to write that it's gonna
come out perfect, because there's no such thing like. It
takes a lot, a lot, a lot of work to
(30:37):
get it to where it needs to be. And so
give yourself permission to write bad stuff. It's gonna come
out bad, you know. But the important thing is that
you put it on the page, because then you have
something to work with. But as long as the page
(30:57):
remains blank, then there is nothing. So just vomit it
on the page, because then at least you'll have something
there that you can start to shape and polish.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Nice. Thank you, And before we end, I always ask
our guests, what is something that you're reading, listening to, using,
or doing or doing that you're completely obsessed with that
you want to recommend that. It could be anything as
simple as I have a new favorite nail polish too.
I'm read. I just discovered this amazing podcast right now.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I've been reading Javier Samoa's books so little, and I
really love how there has been an increase in literature,
you know, buy and about immigrant especially formerly or currently
undocumented immigrants. So that's that's what I've been doing more of,
(31:55):
is trying to support immigrant writers with their books. I read,
you know, Brafae Lagustin's Illegally Yours and now I'm reading
Javier samoa Solo.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Perfect And the name of the show is Latinos take
the lead. Can you share with us. How you're taking
the lead.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I'm taking the lead by setting an example to my
daughter and other young women that you know you need
to pursue your dreams, that you have to always prioritize
those things, and that not let society tell you otherwise.
(32:36):
You know, your dreams matter, You matter, and it's okay
for you to say you know, I am going to
take care of myself and do what I need to
do to live the life that I want to live.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Love it, love it, love it, love it. Now. Finally,
where can people find your books? You follow you, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, you could follow me and Instagram. I'm at writer
Reina Grande. I'm on Twitter at Rena Grande, and then
you could go to my website Reina Grande dot com.
I always update my list of events, so hopefully I
can catch you and during one of my travels. I
(33:20):
would love to meet.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You, definitely. But Reina, thank you so much for being
a guest. You keep inspiring us, keep writing, and I
can't wait to see what else comes out of your
out of your creative process.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I'm not even rain. Also signing off, I hope you
enjoyed this episode. And if you did, please like and subscribe,
follow us on Instagram at Latinas take the lead, and remember,
don't be afraid to break barriers. It's about time Latinas
take the leak.
I had to deal with a lot of mother's guilt
because every time I walked out the door with my
little suitcase, I remember when my mother walked away from us,
and so I would feel guilty that I was leaving
my kids and that, you know, here I am going
off into the world to pursue my dreams. And then
(00:30):
I'll think about my mother and this is what my
mother had done.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to Latina's Take the lead. Our guest today is
Rena Grande, an inspirational and award winning author. Her memoirs
include A Dream called Home and The Distance between Us,
which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award.
Her novels include Across a Hundred Mountains, which draws heavily
on her own experience as an undocumented immigrant, Dancing with Butterfly,
(01:00):
and most recently, A Ballad of Love and Glory. Her name,
translated into Spanish, means grand Queen, and she might just
earn that title in the publishing space. From her immigration
journey to being a struggling single mom to dealing with
feelings of abandonment when her own mother ran away with
the wrestler, Rena is talking all about this and much
(01:24):
much more. She is a Latina taking the lead. That
will definitely inspire us. Let's begin, So Reina and Whichell Glassas,
thank you so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How did you start your career as an author?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah? Well, I started writing when I was thirteen, but
I definitely didn't think that I could be a writer,
a professional writer. One day, I just knew that I
like to write, and it made me feel better, you know, emotionally, mentally, fit, sickly.
I always felt better writing, so that was my favorite
(02:04):
way of expressing myself. But it wasn't until I got
to college. I went to Pasadena City College that my
English teacher there was the one who put that idea
in my head that I should pursue a career as
a writer. Thanks to my English teacher at PCC, I
transferred to u SIE Santa Cruz as a creative writing major.
(02:26):
I discovered that they had a film and video major,
and so I added that as a major as well.
I really feel that my film major helped me with
my creative writing major because it allowed me to see
storytelling in a different way. So every book I've written,
(02:47):
it's a movie in my head. When I write it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Have you already like what your toes in filmmaking or
TV making or is that part of your bigger plan?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Oh? You know, I did not have much luck in
that because after I graduated, I went back to LA
and I tried. I tried finding work in the film industry,
but almost everything that I found was non paid, you know,
(03:19):
internships that didn't pay you anything, And as much as
I wanted to do them, I couldn't. You know, I
had student loans to repay. I didn't have a place
to live. I was crashing on my brother's couch in
his living room, and so because of financial reasons, I
(03:41):
wasn't able to really stick it out that long in
trying to find work in the film industry. So then
I became a teacher for LA Unified and I kept writing.
You know, at least with writing, I could do it
after work on my own time and my kitchen table
and just right. But I feel very sad that I
(04:04):
wasn't able to get very far with the film stuff.
I would love to one day have that opportunity to
do something in film, so it's, you know, it's hopefully
one day it could happen.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I feel like it's just a matter of time, because
how could we not capitalize on your talent as a
writer to see your words on the small screen and
on the big screen one day. So I definitely feel
like that is probably in the cards for you, and
I hope that it is because we need to have
more Latina voices out there right on screen as well.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So when you graduated from college, you tried to break
into the film industry, and then you decided that wasn't
paying the bills, so you became a teacher. And then
right after while you were a teachers, when you got
your first opportunity to be published by a major publisher.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was very lucky because one day I decided to
take a weekend writing class. So then I signed up
for a weekend class through the UCLA Extension Writers Program,
and the teacher for that class was Marie Amparo Escandon,
and Maria Amparo asked me if I had ever heard
(05:26):
of Penn Center USA's Emerging Voices Program, and I hadn't,
so she told me it was a fellowship for aspiring
writers of color. So I applied right on the deadline.
I got the fellowship and it was through this fellowship
Emerging Voices, which still exists today. Luckily, that's where I
(05:50):
met my agent. I sent her my novel a few
months later and she took me on as a client,
and then she started pitching my novel to you know,
many publishers, and I got twenty six rejections, but number
twenty seven, which was Atria at Simon and Schuster. So
(06:11):
that's how I got published.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Nice. And was that for The Distance between Us or
was that for another book?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That was for Across one hundred Mountain Yeah, across hunder Mountains.
It's my first book. But because The Distance between Us
is my best selling book, a lot of people seem
to think that that was my first book, but it's
actually my third. And you know, while I was writing
(06:39):
Across one hundred Mountains, I was a full time middle
school teacher and I was a single mother of toddler,
and it was difficult to try to write, you know,
try to make that time to write. But at the
same time, I really wanted to not give up on
(06:59):
my dream, especially because I was a mother, I was
a single mom. I felt that I didn't want to
let motherhood define who I was, you know, and I
didn't want to sacrifice my dreams or put them on hold,
(07:20):
like so many women are expected to put their dreams
on hold just because they're they're moms, And so I
felt really hard not to fall into that, that expectation
that society puts on us.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How old is your little toddler? Now, he's probably a teenager, right.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
No, No, he's older, he's twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh wow wow, So that just proves how long you've
been doing this. You've been working on this craft, very
very long time.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, I'm going to be teaching in Alaska in May
at a writers' conference there, and I do I do
a lot of speaking, you know. I'm very fortunate because
I get as to speak a lot in like high
schools and colleges, universities, in other conferences, like giving keynotes.
(08:11):
And then of course I get royalties from my book sells,
so that's another source of income for me. And then
whenever I sell, I have a book to sell, you know,
then I'll get an advance from that. So with all
these different things that I have like going on, that's
(08:34):
how I have managed to be a full time author
without having to have a full time nine to five job.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I want to rewind a little bit and go to
the beginning of your path. You immigrated to this country
when you were nine, right, yes, yeah, so talk to
us about that journey of immigrating into this country.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, that is the topic for the Distance between Us,
where I write about being separated from my parents when
they both came to California to work, and my siblings
and I were left behind in Mexico for several years,
and so, you know, I've written a lot about that
(09:25):
trauma of family separation and the fear of growing up
as a child not knowing if I was ever going
to see my parents again. And then, you know, my
father came back when I was nine and a half
and he hired a smuggler to sneak us across the
(09:45):
border through the the Tijuana San Diego border. That's how
we came in, and my siblings and I arrived in
Los Angeles very excited, you know, to finally be with
our dad and to fin only have a family and
to be in the US. But it was difficult because
(10:08):
after all the years of being separated my father, and
my father was a total stranger to us and we
were strangers to him, and we really struggled to reconnect.
And also, you know, in Mexico, we had idolized and
romanticized the idea of my father and we have put
him up on a pedestal. And then we come to
(10:31):
live with the guy, and it turns out that he's
an abusive alcoholic, you know, And so we suffered a
lot of abuse from my father, which was very heartbreaking
because we spent so many years longing for this guy,
longing to have him in our lives, and imagining what
(10:52):
our lives would be like if we only had a father,
you know, and then we have to live with him,
and the reality us different than what we had imagined.
So my siblings and I it's interesting because to this
day we were still hurting from that, you know. Like
I was just talking to my brother a few days
(11:14):
ago about when my father was diagnosed with liver cancer
because of his alcoholism, and how hard it was for
us to go see him, to be there for him
because we were still hurt from the way he had
treated us as children. So that's still something I grapple with.
(11:39):
But one of the things I did I do appreciate
about my father very much is that when he brought
us to the US, he made it very clear what
his expectations were for us. You know, he wanted us
to go to school. He wouldn't put up with any
like any slack. He always demanded perfect grades, perfect attendance.
(12:06):
Even if we were sick, he would make us go
to school. You know. I remember one time I had
a fever and he still made me go to school.
And so he made me into a really good student
because he wouldn't tolerate less than that. And so all
through my like you know, K through twelve experience, and
(12:28):
even in college, I was an excellent student because that's
what my dad had expected of me. And you know,
he always talked about education and why education was so important.
And my father only went to the third grade, you know,
so for him to encourage his children to go to college,
(12:48):
to want to like to pursue a career like that
was really important to him. And I appreciate that about
my father because he definitely Netali helped me to focus
on school and to see that education was important and
to see that through education, I was going to succeed,
(13:11):
and he put that in my head.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, well, it's good that you can see both sides
of your dad. I think for a lot of Latino
families that you know, I include myself. My dad is
an alcoholic, gambling addict, macho, very strong man. That affected
me in a lot of ways. And I'm still, like
you said, grappling with that. So I feel like sometimes
the way that our mothers deal with this kind of
(13:38):
persona affects how we see men, or how we see relationships,
how we see ourselves. So, how did your mom deal
with a man like that and how did that affect
you as a woman.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, my parents split up when they were here in
the US. They split up. My father actually left my
mom for another woman, and after that, my mother became
a very neglectful mother towards us. You know, we often
(14:10):
felt that she blamed us or something, or she wanted
to take it out on us what my dad had
done to her. And so we didn't really have a
relationship with my mom because she came back to live
with us for a little bit in Mexico, and then
she ran off with the wrestler and she left us
on our own. When my father came back for us,
(14:34):
he brought us to live with him and his new wife,
and we grew up with him, not with my mom.
We would see her like once a month or so,
but we never had a good relationship with her. She
was always very indifferent. She never really seemed to care
about our well being. And so I I actually struggle
(15:01):
more in terms of my my feelings for my mother
than I do with my dad. Like I feel that
I've made my peace with my father, but with my mom,
I haven't yet. And I struggle with that because I
kept I kept thinking, you know, maybe she was a
terrible mom, but maybe maybe she could redeem herself later
(15:25):
when we have children. And yeah, and once my siblings
and I started having kids, we still continue to see
her being very indifferent. So I just I just decided
maybe that's just how she is and how she's always
going to be.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So when you said that she ran off with a wrestler,
like I mean, I'm sure people are like, why don't
you write about that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
She is.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And she's still like married to the rest He.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Died, he died, Yeah, No, he was a luchador. He
did lucha live and and cheer nough with him to
a Capulco because he had some some lucha libre over there,
and cheer ran off with him and and we stayed
behind with my grandma, and it was very sad, you know,
(16:25):
to feel that abandonment from my mom. And then yeah,
after the luchador died, she hooked up with another guy
and it was the same thing again. You know, we're
we're being We're not priority, we were never the priority
for my mother.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Well, I don't know if you use some of that
to fuel your writing or your creativity.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I do it. I do. I write a lot about
it because it helps me to understand some things. And
and I actually, you know, this complicated relationship with my
mother has impacted the way I'm a mother too, right,
I think, whether we want to or not, we're always
affected by the way our parents parent parented us and
(17:15):
then the way we parent are own children. And so
a lot of the things I grapple with, especially when
my kids were younger, was how, you know, I really
wanted to pursue my writing career, but that also meant
that oftentimes I had to leave my home, right and
(17:35):
even to this day, it's actually it's actually worse now
because I get more invitations to speak and so I'm
constantly living out of a suitcase, and I had to
deal with a lot of mother's guilt because every time
(17:55):
I walked out the door with my little suitcase, remember
when my mother walked away from us, And so I
would feel guilty that I was leaving my kids and that,
you know, here I am going off into the world
to pursue my dreams. And then I'll think about my
mother and this is what my mother had done. But
(18:17):
then I try to remember that it's a different It's
really different. It's not the same because I'm not running
running off to be with some other man, you know,
I'm not abandoning my children. I'm going to work for
a few days and then I come home, like, it's
not the same things. I constantly have to tell myself
(18:39):
that it's not the same, it's different. But I do.
I carry around a lot of guilt sometimes that I
think it's that fear, you know, of not wanting to
become like my mom. Right So, I've tried very hard
not to be like my parents, very hard, and yet
(19:01):
there's a few times when I feel that I'm becoming
my mom more I'm becoming my dad, and I have
to kind of push against that all the time.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Right, Well, I think the fact that you're conscious of
it means you're doing okay, like you're trying not you know,
you're conscious of that and you're sensitive to that. And
I totally can relate to that. You know that battle
inside and I the same thing, like with my son
(19:32):
when I'm busy, he's like, he's jealous of my laptop.
He's jealous of my computer. But I have to keep
explaining to him, you want that toy, right, and I
need to work in order for you to get that toy,
that lego or whatever it is. And we just do
the best we can. It's so hard, it's so hard
to just you know, we're human too, and the struggle continues.
(19:55):
And do you have more than one child?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah? I have a daughter fourteen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Oh that's amazing. She's going to go through all those
beautiful steps of prom and you could hopefully enjoy those
with her.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And yes, yes, definitely. She always reminds me, you know,
she'll say, you'll be here for Halloween, right, and I say, yes,
I'll be here for Halloween. I miss her birthday one time,
like five years ago. I miss her birthday, the one
and only birthday I've ever missed. And she still reminds
me that I wasn't there for that birthday. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Well, hey, one birthday out of fourteen eight is not
that Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, I feel like I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Pretty good. We'll be right back with more of Reina's
incredible story and her new book, A Ballad of Love
and Glory, and why she did not want to write
this book at first. Stay tuned. So, I also want
to talk about your new book, A Ballad of Love
and Glory. The story up because it is based on
(21:03):
real events, right, So yeah, what's the background of where
this novel takes place.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, so it takes place during the Mexican American War.
So it begins in March of eighteen forty six when
the US Army marches down to the Rio Grande to
provoke a war with Mexico, and then the novel ends
later in eighteen forty eight after the war is over,
(21:34):
after Mexico has lost half of its territory to the
United States, So it spans about two years the novel
and the two protagonists are John Riley, who's a real
historical figure. He was the leader of the Saint Patrick's
Battalion and he was an immigrant from Ireland. And then
(21:56):
the female protagonist is Jimena, who's Aqua who lives there
in what is now South Texas and her family is
from San Antonio, Texas. So she's a Tehannah and she's
a fictional character based on a poem written by John
Greenliff Whittier. So the novel is a it's a war story,
(22:22):
it's an immigrant story, and then it's a love story.
There's a lot of battles, you know, there's a lot
of brutality and carnage, and I didn't shy away from
writing about that because I really wanted the reader to
see and to feel what it's like when your country
is invaded. And so that's that's what the reader should
(22:48):
expect going into the book. And then of course there's
this beautiful love story between John and Himena, who really
do help each other survive this devastation moment.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'm curious you, as a writer, and now as a
renowned writer, when was the like, when is the seed
planted for you to start writing your next novel, like,
for example, a Ballad of Love and Glory? When was
that seed planted of like this is what I want
to write about.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, I actually didn't want to write this book. At first,
somebody gave me the idea. At an event, this man
came up to me and said, hey, have you ever
heard of the Saint Patrick's Battalion. I said, no, who
are they? And he said, oh, you know, there were
a unit in the Mexican Army composed of deserters from
(23:40):
the US Army and most of them were Irish, and
he said, you should write their story. And my idea.
My first thought was like, no, I don't want to
write that. You know, It's like it would be about war,
it would be about soldiers, it would be about battles
politics nineteen century, which I didn't live through. Like no, no, no, no, no,
(24:04):
like all these different reasons why I couldn't write this book.
But then I was fascinated by the Saint Patrick's Battalion.
I was fascinated by the fact that there had been
a group of deserters from the US Army who switched
sides to help Mexico defend itself, and the fact that
most of them were Irish was fascinating to me. And
(24:26):
then I started to do research on the Saint Patrick's Battalion,
and I understood why they did it, you know, And
I saw how the Irish must have seen Mexico becoming
another Ireland. Because Ireland had been oppressed by England for centuries.
The Irish had been dispossessed, and they had been turned
(24:49):
into landless peasants at the service of their English landlords.
And so I imagine that the Irish must have felt that
Mexico would soon become another Ireland at the hands of
a Protestant nation. And so I started to form this
(25:10):
emotional bond with John Riley and with the other soldiers.
And then, of course, you know, religion played a big
part too, because the Irish had not been allowed to
practice their religion in Ireland. They had been severely punished
for being Catholic, and when they were in the US Army,
(25:34):
they experienced a lot of ethnic discrimination and religious prejudice
in the US Army. And so some of them decided
they had enough of that mistreatment and they threw themselves
into the Rio Grande and they joined the Mexicans. And
then I realized, I really do want to write this
(25:55):
book after all, you know, I want to tell this story.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, And how long did it take for you to
complete with it?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Most it took me seven years, But I did put
the novel away twice during those seven years, and then
when I wrote a drink called Home, I put the
novel away again for another year. I like putting it
away so that then I could switch back to my
comfort zone, which is memoir, and once I recharged that battery,
(26:28):
then I would go back to it again and say, Okay,
I'm ready to like face all this daunting research again.
And what actually helped me finish the novel wasn't for
all was the pandemic, because during twenty twenty two and
twenty twenty one, I hardly left my home because all
(26:49):
my events got canceled and so was I was literally
stuck in my house with nothing to do.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But right, you know, you feel like there's been some
change in the publishing industry as far as the gatekeepers
allowing more Latino voices to be out there, more authentic
Latino voices. Do you think it's changed at all? We
know that there's a few years ago there was a
little upheaval with non authentic voices writing alleged Latino themed books,
(27:23):
et cetera. So do you think that's changed.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I want to be positive and say yes, it has
changed a little bit, not as much as we would like,
but I have definitely seen an increase in Latino titles
being published, especially this year. This year alone, I mean,
we had a lot of Latino titles come out, and
(27:50):
it's been great because so many of them, and even
last year to twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
I think have been really good years for for Latino literature,
and we had several titles ended up in a New
York Times bestseller's list, you know, Patricia Engo with Infinite Country,
(28:14):
Marian Paros Condon with La Weather, Sochi Gonzalees with how
Olgades Streaming, and just recently Javier Samora with Solito. You know,
So there's been there has been like established writers coming
(28:37):
up with new titles, but then there has also been
a lot of debut authors too that that I was
very happy to see, like Isabel Kanyas' debuted this summer
with her her novel The Aciena, and then Jesse Leone
debuted with his memoir I'm Not Broken, and then Rafaela
(28:58):
Gustine also made his debut this summer with Illegally Yours,
which is his memoir about being undocumented. So there's I
feel that there has been some really good stuff coming out,
but of course there should there should be more. You know,
(29:19):
there's a lot more that needs to come from the
Latino community, and I do hope that the publishing industry
continues to give more opportunities to Latino authors. And one
exercise that I like to do is to think about
the quote from Gloria and Saldua. I am a turtle.
(29:43):
Wherever I go, I carry home on my back. And
it's so important for like immigrants to think of a
home that we could carry with us, you know, So
what is the home that you carry? You know, so
make a list of all those things that you carry
with you and then use that as a you know,
(30:06):
you could use that to like write an essay about it.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, It's like a prompt, right, like a prompt.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
But I mean, I think one of the things I
always do tell aspiring writers is that you need to
be patient with the writing. You know, you cannot expect
that when you sit down to write that it's gonna
come out perfect, because there's no such thing like. It
takes a lot, a lot, a lot of work to
(30:37):
get it to where it needs to be. And so
give yourself permission to write bad stuff. It's gonna come
out bad, you know. But the important thing is that
you put it on the page, because then you have
something to work with. But as long as the page
(30:57):
remains blank, then there is nothing. So just vomit it
on the page, because then at least you'll have something
there that you can start to shape and polish.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Nice. Thank you, And before we end, I always ask
our guests, what is something that you're reading, listening to, using,
or doing or doing that you're completely obsessed with that
you want to recommend that. It could be anything as
simple as I have a new favorite nail polish too.
I'm read. I just discovered this amazing podcast right now.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I've been reading Javier Samoa's books so little, and I
really love how there has been an increase in literature,
you know, buy and about immigrant especially formerly or currently
undocumented immigrants. So that's that's what I've been doing more of,
(31:55):
is trying to support immigrant writers with their books. I read,
you know, Brafae Lagustin's Illegally Yours and now I'm reading
Javier samoa Solo.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Perfect And the name of the show is Latinos take
the lead. Can you share with us. How you're taking
the lead.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I'm taking the lead by setting an example to my
daughter and other young women that you know you need
to pursue your dreams, that you have to always prioritize
those things, and that not let society tell you otherwise.
(32:36):
You know, your dreams matter, You matter, and it's okay
for you to say you know, I am going to
take care of myself and do what I need to
do to live the life that I want to live.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Love it, love it, love it, love it. Now. Finally,
where can people find your books? You follow you, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, you could follow me and Instagram. I'm at writer
Reina Grande. I'm on Twitter at Rena Grande, and then
you could go to my website Reina Grande dot com.
I always update my list of events, so hopefully I
can catch you and during one of my travels. I
(33:20):
would love to meet.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You, definitely. But Reina, thank you so much for being
a guest. You keep inspiring us, keep writing, and I
can't wait to see what else comes out of your
out of your creative process.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I'm not even rain. Also signing off, I hope you
enjoyed this episode. And if you did, please like and subscribe,
follow us on Instagram at Latinas take the lead, and remember,
don't be afraid to break barriers. It's about time Latinas
take the leak.
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The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.