August 27, 2021 • 37 mins
In this award-winning two-part investigation from 2020, "The Moving Border" from Latino USA, we delve into the increasing pressure put on refugees seeking safety in the United States via its southern border. It reveals the surprising support the former Trump administration received to create an impenetrable policy wall that pushes asylum seekers south, away from the U.S.
In episode one, "The North," we visit Juárez and tell the story of a mother and daughter who are mired in a web of changing policy and subjected to ongoing violence. And we find evidence of how Mexican authorities are working hand-in-hand with the U.S. at the border.
“The Moving Border” series was produced in partnership with the Pulitzer Center, with additional support provided by the Ford Foundation.
This episode was first broadcast on May 20, 2020.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
From Futuro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Madriaojosa
today part one of our award winning series from twenty
twenty called The Moving Border. Dear listener, we're rebroadcasting part
one of The Moving Border, our award winning series exploring
asylum and the somewhat secretive partnership between Mexico and the
(00:28):
United States. This story originally aired in May of twenty twenty,
when order policies were being made under the Trump administration.
Things have changed since then, but how much have they?
We're going to be exploring that question later this year
as we continue the Moving Border series and delve into
the border policy now under the Biden administration. In fact,
(00:51):
this story was the impetus to create my new investigative unit.
It's called Fudurodajosa, But for now from twenty twenty, here's
the award waiting first part of The Moving Border. It
all began with a four letter word wall.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls
better than me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Believe me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I will build a great, great wall.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
On our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay
for that wall.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Mark my works.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
As Donald Trump's campaign for president heated up four years ago.
It was the word that launched a thousand rallies.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because I've been hearing a lot of things. Oh, the
wall didn't make that much of a difference. You know
where it made a big difference. Right here in El Paso.
We're gonna build the wall. We have no choice, we
have no choice. Build that wall, Build that wall, Build
that wall, Build that wall.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Build Now, most immigration experts would tell you it was
a fantasy. It was too expensive, not to mention that
it wouldn't solve the problem of people crossing the border
without papers, let alone do anything to address the growing
number of asylum seekers legally asking for refuge at ports
of entry. But there was a simplicity to it, a catchiness.
(02:12):
Build the wall. It reduced a complicated issue to a
small idea, and it very well may have catapulted a
reality television star into the nation's highest office. The phrase,
of course, wasn't just build the wall. It was also
make Mexico pay for it. Now. In Mexico, this was
(02:35):
widely ridiculed. It was the material of jokes and can
you believe this guy? Dinner conversations devastation. Shortly after Trump's
inauguration in twenty seventeen, then President Enrique Bagnaneto went on
TV to make Mexico's position clear.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Mexico nokrelos more luvicho una yotravis.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Mexico no pagaran. Mexico doesn't believe in walls.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
He said.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I've said it again and again. Mexico isn't going to
pay for any wall. Now it's near the end of
the first term of the Trump presidency and something perhaps
unexpected has happened. Mexico has a new president, a leftist
and a populist. He, like his predecessor, scoffed at the
(03:33):
idea of paying for the wall. Yet to the surprise
of many, he's become a willing partner in Trump's mission
of slowing immigration to a trickle. Trump hasn't built his
promised wall, at least not more than a few small
sections of it. But it turns out he doesn't need it,
(03:55):
and that's because the wall has become Mexico itself. The
real wall, the one that President Trump has successfully built,
is not a wall of steel or even cement. You
could actually say it's a paper wall. It's a wall
of policies, policies that push migrants out of the US
(04:16):
and further and further south into Mexico. These are policies
made by the United States government, as well as Mexican
policies made under pressure and with financial support from the
United States. In January of this year, I visited Mexico
both its northern and southern borders to learn more about
(04:37):
this policy wall and how it's affecting the lives of
migrants today. I see razor wire now to my right,
a gate over the pathway. I started by crossing the
border into Suda Quadris. It's a huge, busy city of
nearly one and a half million people right across the
(04:57):
Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas is its sister city.
And as a little girl, I remember making this crossing
a couple of times on family vacations to Mexico. But
now it seems so different. So I've got fence above
my head, fencing to my right, fencing to my left.
It's like I'm in a cage. It's a little strange,
(05:21):
and I'm just getting to the big, huge, rusted, massive
barricade that is the fence, the wall. It's long, rusty, brown,
and this was not here. In all of the years
that I crossed as a little kid, you never saw this.
(05:50):
The border crossing between these two cities is a place
where the Trump administration has piloted many of its new
immigration programs. So what is a place where you get
a chance to see the results. We're going to look
at policies facing one group of migrants. Specifically, they're considered
the most vulnerable. They're asylum seekers, and they're supposed to
(06:12):
have the most protections and care. Over the last couple
of years, makeshift tent camps of asylum seekers have popped
up in cities and towns all along the border. There
are families that are sleeping under bridges right out in
the open. Here into that what is a large encampment
at a park where thousands of people were living has
(06:35):
recently been disbanded. Now those asylum seekers are scattered throughout
the city, staying in a series of shelters run by
churches and private organizations. And one of those shelters will
be our first stop. So now we're in a very
poor area of what is the street that we're on
(06:57):
is not paved, it's all dirt. The shelter we visit
is located in a squat building with a plain white
wall and a sign outside that says it's a community center.
There are some kids outside play soccer, and they told
me that migrants live here blatt this. We walked towards
(07:30):
the back of this place and I just begin to
follow the smell. There's a mixture of sweet and salty
coming from the kitchen. Can see on a very small stove,
one woman is stirring hot cereal with milk for her kids.
(07:52):
On another burner, a young man with a funky haircut
and a pink and blue jacket is making sopita de
boyo chicken soup. There's an older woman who's getting her
hair dyed in the kitchen, and others are sitting in
the back patio smoking cigarettes.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
Yes, I thought from.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Salman and that's Catherine.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
She's one of the only Hondurans living in this shelter
full of Cuban asylum seekers. She says they become like
a big family. They cook together and the other women
help her with her two daughters, the ones who will
be getting that hot cereal. Catherine says she feels safe
here in this shelter, but not at all in the city.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's Theranicana.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Catherine says. When they first arrived in Kwas, she happened
to see a lady crossing the street with her daughter.
Then a van stopped, people snatched her child and took off.
The woman was left in the middle of the street
screaming me. Catherine says she stopped sending her older daughter
(09:18):
to school. She doesn't want her kids out of her sight.
She says they almost never go outside except to go
to court. That is, in the years she's been at
this shelter, Catherine has had six, yes, six hearings with
US immigration officials and still no decision on her claim
(09:42):
for asylum. What's keeping her and her family here in
Mexico is the first brick in Trump's policy wall that
we're going to talk about. It's something called Migrant Protection
Protocols or MPP. You might have heard about it, and
it's also referred to as the Remain in Mexico policy
(10:04):
because that's exactly what it forces people to do.
Speaker 8 (10:08):
Individuals arriving in or entering the United States from Mexico
illegally or without proper documentation, maybe returned to Mexico for
the duration of their immigration proceedings. They will not be
able to disappear into the United States.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's former DHS Secretary Kirsten Nielsen announcing the policy back
in December of twenty eighteen. Since remaining in Mexico went
into effect, nearly sixty thousand asylum seekers arriving at the
US border, people like Catherine, have been ordered to wait
in Mexico while a decision is made in the US
(10:46):
on their asylum petitions. This is a radical departure from
how things used to work. Asylum is a process that
can take years, and that's why in the past, asylum
seekers were always allowed to wait safe in the US
for their hearings. Now asylum seekers like Catherine are stuck
on the other side of the border. She shows me
(11:13):
her appointment letter from Customs and Border Protection Don delocin
is where are.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You keeping this?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
This piece of paper is the only proof that Catherine
has of her pending case. To make sure she never
loses it or that no one takes it, she says,
she sleeps with it underneath her so you sleep with it.
Part of the reason that Catherine and sixty thousand asylum seekers,
(11:43):
mostly Central Americans, have been ordered to wait in Mexico
is a surprisingly cooperative relationship between President Trump and Mexico's
President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, better known as AMLO.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
In Amos Abricaraticos NOMANDLO.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
In twenty eighteen, AMLO became Mexico's first leftist president in decades,
and at first, migrant advocates had high expectations.
Speaker 10 (12:19):
Mexico's leftist presidential candidate, Andre Es Manuel Lopez Operador is
in New York to show solidarity with his fellow countrymen
living in the city. He claims the Trump administration's immigration
crackdown is a violation of human rights.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It seemed like AMLO was really going to change things
right away. He created this fund to address root causes
of migration from Central America. He pledged thirty billion dollars
over the next five years. But then some began to
question how many of the progressive policies he talked about
could really be achieved. Then in the summer of last year,
(12:58):
AMLO was put to the test.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
So President Trump is increasing pressure on Mexico, demanding the
country does something to stop undocumented immigrants from crossing the border. Overnight,
President Trump tweeted the United States will impose tariffs on
Mexico until the flow of migrants stops.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
At first, AMLA refused, but as pressure intensified and with
Mexico's economy under threat, he had a surprising change of heart.
Speaker 8 (13:25):
After ten days of threats from President Trump to levy
tariffs on Mexican products, mister Trump announced Friday night that
he had struck a deal.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
The deal was to work with Trump on immigration enforcement.
AMLO agreed to a plan to greatly expand MPP the
remain in Mexico policy, and to begin using Mexico's newly
minted National Guard to patrol the border and detain migrants.
It had been sold to the public as a force
that would deal with crime and corruption issues. By September
(13:59):
of twenty nineteen, Mexico announced it had reduced migrant movement
north towards the US border by fifty percent. And this
collaboration between the US and Mexico has led to a
situation that has put asylum seekers lives on the line.
(14:19):
That's coming up. Stay with us, not by yes. Welcome
(15:07):
back to Latino, USA. I'm Maria j Josan. Let's return
to part one of The Moving Border, our award winning
series from twenty twenty let's see what's at the port
of entry by the border. I'm waiting for attorney Linda
Rivas Hi.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Linda Maria me too.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I'm the executive director at Las America's Immigrant Advocacy Center
and we're a thirty two year old legal nonprofit in
I'll Pass to Texas and as of the Remain in
Mexico program starting, a lot of our work is now
on this side of the border into da Quadas.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Linda takes me to see another piece of Trump's policy
wall in action. Where are we described where we are?
Speaker 7 (15:53):
You crossed the bridge and you just turn the corner
and it's kind of hidden in here.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And it's called the GAEME, which is the Center for
Comprehensive Migrant Services, is a state run agency that acts
as a processing center of sorts for migrants in what
is now Its goal is to provide a one stop
shop where migrants can apply for social services, where they
can get legal assistance.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
And also this is also where people are being metered.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Metering is another way the US and Mexican governments are
collaborating on border policy, even if it's a little unofficial.
So what metering means simply is that US officials have
been arbitrarily limiting the number of people who are allowed
to present themselves at the border each day to ask
for asylum.
Speaker 7 (16:47):
They're not letting them physically step foot into the United
States to legally seek asylum.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
They're saying we're full, go away.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
And when they say we're full, go away, they're Suddenly
a system emerged that was like, okay, taking thirty people today,
we're taking ten people today. We're taking no one today.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Once the US started taking fewer people, it caused a
huge backlog of migrants waiting in Mexico to ask for asylum,
and that's when the list began. It started as a
kind of makeshift list in a migrants notebook well over
a year ago, with new people arriving every day. It
(17:24):
kept track of who was here first and whose turn
it would be to go to the border and speak
to a US officer to present their claim. It was
the way migrants could take some control of the situation
and keep some order while they waited. Eventually, in what
is this government office took charge of the list.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
CBP receive alis persona's o ying nos camlos and illumero
yesinoento bentiocho.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
CBP we'll see ten people today, number nineteen four hundred
and twenty eight. A Mexican official calls this out to
a large room.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Qua quatrocento treenta.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
The person holding the number approaches the official to say
that they're.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Here, pat you know, quatroc quadraqua.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
An official later tells me that at its highest point,
there are over six thousand people on the list at
once waiting for their number to be called. Right now
there are just two hundred names of people waiting on
the list. It's another sign that the policy wall is
doing the job it was meant to do. And even
though we saw it happening ourselves, Mexican officials won't admit
(18:55):
on the record that they're managing the list. They know
that work with the US on this would be controversial.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
And so this has been a pretty unofficial cooperation between
the two governments to what the United States is trying
to control the flow with. I believe no.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Justification, Riva says. Metering and the Remain in Mexico policy
work hand in hand. Metering keeps asylum seekers in Mexico
waiting for their number to be called, and once it
finally is the remain in Mexico policy then draws out
(19:37):
that weight. The problem is the US has exported a
key responsibility for dealing with highly vulnerable refugees their immediate
safety and protection. Mexico is left to figure it out,
and they have no requirement to prove anything is being done.
(19:58):
What Mexico has done is this, migrants on MPP are
now given a document which protects them from being deported
from Mexico while their case is pending. If they want
to work legally in Mexico while they're waiting or access healthcare,
they have to request something called a group, which is
basically like a temporary Social Security number, but it only
(20:19):
lasts six months. And whether they can get this document
in every border city or if it can be renewed,
depends on who you ask.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
I think that reflects the fact that on paper things
are one way, and then in practice.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's another's that's Maureen Mayor. She's an advocate at the
Washington Office on Latin America. She says Mexico is getting
by providing the bare minimum for those waiting under MPP.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
The Mexican government really promised originally to look at opportunities
for employment and other services. We really haven't seen that
pan out at the border or elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
In Quitas, Mexico's government has what they think is attempting
offer for those who have been forced to remain in
the north of Mexico and fear the high levels of
crime here. They're offering a free bus ride to the
south of Mexico while they weigh out their process.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
So one way ticket, you have to figure out on
your own how to get the funds to bust yourself
back up to the border. And obviously that poses the
question to what happens if your hearing date changes. So
it's I think it's for the most part a program
that the mexicanum adopted to try to get people out
of the northern border. But if they're really concerned about
(21:35):
supporting this population, you wouldn't send them all the way
back to southern Mexico.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
This is an instance where Mexico isn't just a passive
bystander to a US policy that pushes asylum seekers away
from the US border. This is one that Mexico has created.
Meyer thinks the point of the bussing program ultimately is
to convince people to just give up on their asylum claims.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Maybe if we can make it so uncomfortable and unbearable
to stay there, people just go home.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But for those who still decide to stay, the end
result of this policy wall we've been talking about is
that asylum seekers are stuck on the border for long
periods of time, living in shelters in an ambiguous legal status,
and that adds up to a situation that puts them
at risk. Which leads me to the story of M
(22:35):
and her seven year old daughter A. We're referring to
them by their first initials for their protection. Linda introduces
me to them at the migrant center, and later I'm
invited to visit M at the house where she's staying
to hear their story in a little bit more privacy,
(23:00):
living with an employee from the shelter, and in return
for a bedroom that she shares with her daughter, she
has to clean the house and keep things tidy. Em
says she traveled with her daughter as well as her
husband and young son from Monduras. Somewhere along the way,
they were split up and Em continued north with her
daughter alone. Then she tells me they were kidnapped just
(23:23):
hours after they arrived in what is.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yea in Mediunayama.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Em says she was sitting at a bus stop with
her daughter on the outskirts of the city, trying to
get downtown. It was dusk and by now it was cold.
They didn't have coats, which is the easiest way to
spot new arrivals to what is during the winter months.
Em says that a man sat down on the bench
next to her and asked where she was heading. Then
(24:08):
he got up and made a phone call, and a
few minutes later, a truck pulls up, a man gets out.
He flashes a gun and tells her to get in
with her daughter. Em says that they were taken to
a warehouse where ten other migrants were being held. She
says the kidnappers contacted their families for ransom money. Em
(24:30):
says when the kidnappers would take people out of the warehouse,
they never came back. M one day they came for her,
crammed her and her daughter, a and a few others
(24:52):
into the backseat of a car. She says, when they
got caught in traffic for a moment, she knew it
was now or never, since no ransom had been paid.
She managed to push open the car door and run
away with her daughter. The mom tells me that a
good Samaritan takes them to a shelter. It was so
packed there weren't enough beds or blankets, so mother and
(25:14):
daughter were forced to sleep on the floor in a
room full of strangers.
Speaker 12 (25:19):
Muchahinte mucha hendekovi hasna vie suficientropa.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And then one night at the shelter, something horrible happened.
Em says her young daughter woke up next to her naked,
and she believes her daughter was sexually assaulted. She took
her daughter to the doctor and tried to report this
to the police, but she says when they saw her
enduran i d they refused to take down a report.
(25:53):
Em says this entire thing has been eating away at
her ever since.
Speaker 12 (25:58):
Cisolo Misonoki mah who knew ka Mi Si who's ikas.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
M says she feels guilty. After all, she left Hodudas
to protect her kids and give them an education. She
says she had no way to know everything that they'd
go through, and still after all of this, they haven't
even been able to get into the United States, even
though the Remain in Mexico policy is supposed to make
an exception for migrants who are in very vulnerable positions.
(26:44):
M and her daughter, twice victims of crime in Mexico,
were told that they must remain in Mexico for however
long it takes for the United States to decide their case.
In the beginning, when Linda Rivas, the lawyer, first started
(27:04):
representing them, they were hopeful. But now the mom says
after her last hearing, she doesn't know what to think anymore.
The judge, she says, seemed like he didn't even care
to hear what had happened to them. And A, even
though she's only seven years old, she's picking up on
(27:26):
all of it.
Speaker 12 (27:28):
Said Mommy, joy no devas and mentira yelo de Miraira.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
The little girl tells her mom now that it's all
a lie, that the United States will never let them in.
She's clearly been affected by everything that they've gone through.
Her mom says that now her daughter rarely sleeps through
the night. As I was leaving, I decided to give
(27:58):
this little girl a b did prayer bracelet that I
was wearing. I tell her that she can count the
beads at night when she can't sleep, just the way
that I do. Juan luezo and then all of a sudden,
(28:28):
the little girl grabs her long hair, covers her face
with it, and she starts telling me that she's always
dreaming about her mom being kidnapped again. That's why she
wakes up crying in the middle of the night.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
M Le.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Mohammada. We didn't eat, she says. Then she tells me
that they were there for five days, that they mistreated her,
yelled at her, pushed her, told her that they'd be
killed if they didn't payaroy I. Then she says she
(29:21):
can't stop thinking about all the other people in the
car who didn't get a chance to escape. She says,
dio suos by you that God will help them, a
comforting phrase she's likely heard during these fearful times in
her life. And had told me that her daughter A
(29:47):
dreams of becoming a doctor. So I looked at a
in her eyes and I said, I know you can
become that doctor that you dream of becoming. I know
you can do it. Okay, see Mpiippians that get boy,
they said, it's ben defeaciing Okay, Okay. Kidnappings aren't new
(30:22):
in Mexico, but the number of violent attacks on migrants
are increasing. Over the last year, more than one thousand murders, rapes,
and kidnappings were reported in Mexico by migrants on MPP.
The remain in Mexico policy, and these are just the
reported cases. Advocates like Maureen Meyer say the numbers are
(30:46):
likely much higher.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
There's so many cases that are documented of asilence seekers
under the program that are magician of kidnapping, sexual assault, explorations, robbery.
That is also the responsibility in the Mexican government. The
Mexican government accepted this that the US is implementing there
and has done very little to ensure that anyone under
the partner is being adequately protected, is given in access
(31:10):
to shelter or any of the basic public services that
they need to be able to safely stay and pursue
their clients.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
On top of that, the chances of getting asylum approved
are extremely low. Just zero point one percent of MPP
cases have been granted, and since COVID nineteen began the
situation is even more bleak. Most have had their asylum
hearings postponed indefinitely as immigration courts shut down in the US.
(31:39):
That includes the case of M and A and the
asylum list that's done too. Restrictions are so tight now
that since late March, less than a dozen asylum seekers
have been allowed to enter into the United States. We're
(32:07):
in the desert, so we've been hot all day. You know,
it's been super warm all day. The sun is just
about to go down behind the mountains, and already the
temperature has dropped I don't know, ten degrees in a
matter of maybe fifteen minutes, but I'm already starting to
feel shivery. To think that there were children sleeping outside
(32:28):
in these conditions. It's all about making this as difficult
and as trying and as it's just breaking you down,
it's wearing you down. These are human beings, you know.
I mean, we're tough, you know, but there comes a
point where you just say, I just can't do this,
And that's where it's just like, Wow, how many more
(32:50):
are gonna never try and walk away? My trip to
what Is illuminated a lot about how policy changes have
effectively turned Mexico into a place of permanent limbo for
(33:13):
migrants and in between world a kind of barrier itself
between them and the United States, the policy wall. We've
talked about this episode pushes migrants deeper and deeper into
Mexico and away from the eyes of public accountability. But
stopping migrants at the northern border is only part of
(33:34):
the plan. Immigration opponents want to stop migrants long before
at the other end of Mexico, on its southern border
with Watemala, in a place called Tapachula.
Speaker 9 (33:47):
When I see.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's Saturday, January eleventh, and now I'm at the airport
and I'm getting ready to bord a flight to Tapachula,
I realized that the only way to really understand what's
happening at this northern border is to go to a
completely different one, much further south. And there's another reason
(34:13):
why I want to go to Tapachula. One year ago,
I met a young migrant named Josue in Matamoros. He
was my son's age twenty three at the time, and
he was living under a bridge hoping for a chance
to cross into the United States. Over the year, he's
kept in touch with me, and the last time I
(34:33):
spoke with him, he was living in Tapachula trying to
get back to the United States. And I've been talking
to him throughout my trip, making plans to finally see
him in Tapachula and hear his story. But now I
wasn't getting through to him, and so now I'm calling him.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Let's see.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Just rings and rings and r and rings. So I
don't know, you know, did somebody offer him a trip
and he just said I'm out? Did he get kidnapped?
Did he get put into a detention facility? Was he
arrested because he's sleeping on the street. So yeah, this
is exactly what it looks like. This is what thousands
of people are going through, which is suddenly you're not
(35:24):
in contact with this person. They're gone. Let's see what
happens when we get to Tapachuna. That's our flight. Okay,
that's our flight. My thanks to Jurrieta Martinelli for producing
(35:49):
that story with me. The movie Border series was produced
in partnership with the Pulitzer Center, with additional support provided
by the Ford Foundation. This series was edited by Merlin Bish.
The executive producer is Dian Selvester. That's it for Today.
(36:21):
Latino USA is produced by Mike Sargent, Julia Ta Martinelli,
Victori Estrada, Patricia Sulbaran, Gini Montago, Alejandra Salasa, Rinaldo, Reannoz Junior,
and Julia Rocha were edited by Andrea Lopez Cruzado and
Marta Martinez with help from Raoul Prees. Our editorial directors
Julio Ricardo Barela. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou, Julia Caruso
(36:42):
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I'm your host and executive producer Madiaina Hossa. Join us
(37:04):
again on our next episode, and in the meantime find
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Speaker 6 (37:09):
I E.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,
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(37:33):
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Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm Madie no Hosa. Next time on Latino Usa, SIEMA funk,
the so called Cuban James Brown talks about his journey
from medical school to the music industry. That's next Time
on Latino USA.
From Futuro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Madriaojosa
today part one of our award winning series from twenty
twenty called The Moving Border. Dear listener, we're rebroadcasting part
one of The Moving Border, our award winning series exploring
asylum and the somewhat secretive partnership between Mexico and the
(00:28):
United States. This story originally aired in May of twenty twenty,
when order policies were being made under the Trump administration.
Things have changed since then, but how much have they?
We're going to be exploring that question later this year
as we continue the Moving Border series and delve into
the border policy now under the Biden administration. In fact,
(00:51):
this story was the impetus to create my new investigative unit.
It's called Fudurodajosa, But for now from twenty twenty, here's
the award waiting first part of The Moving Border. It
all began with a four letter word wall.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls
better than me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Believe me.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I will build a great, great wall.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
On our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay
for that wall.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Mark my works.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
As Donald Trump's campaign for president heated up four years ago.
It was the word that launched a thousand rallies.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because I've been hearing a lot of things. Oh, the
wall didn't make that much of a difference. You know
where it made a big difference. Right here in El Paso.
We're gonna build the wall. We have no choice, we
have no choice. Build that wall, Build that wall, Build
that wall, Build that wall.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Build Now, most immigration experts would tell you it was
a fantasy. It was too expensive, not to mention that
it wouldn't solve the problem of people crossing the border
without papers, let alone do anything to address the growing
number of asylum seekers legally asking for refuge at ports
of entry. But there was a simplicity to it, a catchiness.
(02:12):
Build the wall. It reduced a complicated issue to a
small idea, and it very well may have catapulted a
reality television star into the nation's highest office. The phrase,
of course, wasn't just build the wall. It was also
make Mexico pay for it. Now. In Mexico, this was
(02:35):
widely ridiculed. It was the material of jokes and can
you believe this guy? Dinner conversations devastation. Shortly after Trump's
inauguration in twenty seventeen, then President Enrique Bagnaneto went on
TV to make Mexico's position clear.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Mexico nokrelos more luvicho una yotravis.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Mexico no pagaran. Mexico doesn't believe in walls.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
He said.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I've said it again and again. Mexico isn't going to
pay for any wall. Now it's near the end of
the first term of the Trump presidency and something perhaps
unexpected has happened. Mexico has a new president, a leftist
and a populist. He, like his predecessor, scoffed at the
(03:33):
idea of paying for the wall. Yet to the surprise
of many, he's become a willing partner in Trump's mission
of slowing immigration to a trickle. Trump hasn't built his
promised wall, at least not more than a few small
sections of it. But it turns out he doesn't need it,
(03:55):
and that's because the wall has become Mexico itself. The
real wall, the one that President Trump has successfully built,
is not a wall of steel or even cement. You
could actually say it's a paper wall. It's a wall
of policies, policies that push migrants out of the US
(04:16):
and further and further south into Mexico. These are policies
made by the United States government, as well as Mexican
policies made under pressure and with financial support from the
United States. In January of this year, I visited Mexico
both its northern and southern borders to learn more about
(04:37):
this policy wall and how it's affecting the lives of
migrants today. I see razor wire now to my right,
a gate over the pathway. I started by crossing the
border into Suda Quadris. It's a huge, busy city of
nearly one and a half million people right across the
(04:57):
Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas is its sister city.
And as a little girl, I remember making this crossing
a couple of times on family vacations to Mexico. But
now it seems so different. So I've got fence above
my head, fencing to my right, fencing to my left.
It's like I'm in a cage. It's a little strange,
(05:21):
and I'm just getting to the big, huge, rusted, massive
barricade that is the fence, the wall. It's long, rusty, brown,
and this was not here. In all of the years
that I crossed as a little kid, you never saw this.
(05:50):
The border crossing between these two cities is a place
where the Trump administration has piloted many of its new
immigration programs. So what is a place where you get
a chance to see the results. We're going to look
at policies facing one group of migrants. Specifically, they're considered
the most vulnerable. They're asylum seekers, and they're supposed to
(06:12):
have the most protections and care. Over the last couple
of years, makeshift tent camps of asylum seekers have popped
up in cities and towns all along the border. There
are families that are sleeping under bridges right out in
the open. Here into that what is a large encampment
at a park where thousands of people were living has
(06:35):
recently been disbanded. Now those asylum seekers are scattered throughout
the city, staying in a series of shelters run by
churches and private organizations. And one of those shelters will
be our first stop. So now we're in a very
poor area of what is the street that we're on
(06:57):
is not paved, it's all dirt. The shelter we visit
is located in a squat building with a plain white
wall and a sign outside that says it's a community center.
There are some kids outside play soccer, and they told
me that migrants live here blatt this. We walked towards
(07:30):
the back of this place and I just begin to
follow the smell. There's a mixture of sweet and salty
coming from the kitchen. Can see on a very small stove,
one woman is stirring hot cereal with milk for her kids.
(07:52):
On another burner, a young man with a funky haircut
and a pink and blue jacket is making sopita de
boyo chicken soup. There's an older woman who's getting her
hair dyed in the kitchen, and others are sitting in
the back patio smoking cigarettes.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
Yes, I thought from.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Salman and that's Catherine.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
She's one of the only Hondurans living in this shelter
full of Cuban asylum seekers. She says they become like
a big family. They cook together and the other women
help her with her two daughters, the ones who will
be getting that hot cereal. Catherine says she feels safe
here in this shelter, but not at all in the city.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's Theranicana.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Catherine says. When they first arrived in Kwas, she happened
to see a lady crossing the street with her daughter.
Then a van stopped, people snatched her child and took off.
The woman was left in the middle of the street
screaming me. Catherine says she stopped sending her older daughter
(09:18):
to school. She doesn't want her kids out of her sight.
She says they almost never go outside except to go
to court. That is, in the years she's been at
this shelter, Catherine has had six, yes, six hearings with
US immigration officials and still no decision on her claim
(09:42):
for asylum. What's keeping her and her family here in
Mexico is the first brick in Trump's policy wall that
we're going to talk about. It's something called Migrant Protection
Protocols or MPP. You might have heard about it, and
it's also referred to as the Remain in Mexico policy
(10:04):
because that's exactly what it forces people to do.
Speaker 8 (10:08):
Individuals arriving in or entering the United States from Mexico
illegally or without proper documentation, maybe returned to Mexico for
the duration of their immigration proceedings. They will not be
able to disappear into the United States.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's former DHS Secretary Kirsten Nielsen announcing the policy back
in December of twenty eighteen. Since remaining in Mexico went
into effect, nearly sixty thousand asylum seekers arriving at the
US border, people like Catherine, have been ordered to wait
in Mexico while a decision is made in the US
(10:46):
on their asylum petitions. This is a radical departure from
how things used to work. Asylum is a process that
can take years, and that's why in the past, asylum
seekers were always allowed to wait safe in the US
for their hearings. Now asylum seekers like Catherine are stuck
on the other side of the border. She shows me
(11:13):
her appointment letter from Customs and Border Protection Don delocin
is where are.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You keeping this?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
This piece of paper is the only proof that Catherine
has of her pending case. To make sure she never
loses it or that no one takes it, she says,
she sleeps with it underneath her so you sleep with it.
Part of the reason that Catherine and sixty thousand asylum seekers,
(11:43):
mostly Central Americans, have been ordered to wait in Mexico
is a surprisingly cooperative relationship between President Trump and Mexico's
President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, better known as AMLO.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
In Amos Abricaraticos NOMANDLO.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
In twenty eighteen, AMLO became Mexico's first leftist president in decades,
and at first, migrant advocates had high expectations.
Speaker 10 (12:19):
Mexico's leftist presidential candidate, Andre Es Manuel Lopez Operador is
in New York to show solidarity with his fellow countrymen
living in the city. He claims the Trump administration's immigration
crackdown is a violation of human rights.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It seemed like AMLO was really going to change things
right away. He created this fund to address root causes
of migration from Central America. He pledged thirty billion dollars
over the next five years. But then some began to
question how many of the progressive policies he talked about
could really be achieved. Then in the summer of last year,
(12:58):
AMLO was put to the test.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
So President Trump is increasing pressure on Mexico, demanding the
country does something to stop undocumented immigrants from crossing the border. Overnight,
President Trump tweeted the United States will impose tariffs on
Mexico until the flow of migrants stops.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
At first, AMLA refused, but as pressure intensified and with
Mexico's economy under threat, he had a surprising change of heart.
Speaker 8 (13:25):
After ten days of threats from President Trump to levy
tariffs on Mexican products, mister Trump announced Friday night that
he had struck a deal.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
The deal was to work with Trump on immigration enforcement.
AMLO agreed to a plan to greatly expand MPP the
remain in Mexico policy, and to begin using Mexico's newly
minted National Guard to patrol the border and detain migrants.
It had been sold to the public as a force
that would deal with crime and corruption issues. By September
(13:59):
of twenty nineteen, Mexico announced it had reduced migrant movement
north towards the US border by fifty percent. And this
collaboration between the US and Mexico has led to a
situation that has put asylum seekers lives on the line.
(14:19):
That's coming up. Stay with us, not by yes. Welcome
(15:07):
back to Latino, USA. I'm Maria j Josan. Let's return
to part one of The Moving Border, our award winning
series from twenty twenty let's see what's at the port
of entry by the border. I'm waiting for attorney Linda
Rivas Hi.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Linda Maria me too.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
I'm the executive director at Las America's Immigrant Advocacy Center
and we're a thirty two year old legal nonprofit in
I'll Pass to Texas and as of the Remain in
Mexico program starting, a lot of our work is now
on this side of the border into da Quadas.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Linda takes me to see another piece of Trump's policy
wall in action. Where are we described where we are?
Speaker 7 (15:53):
You crossed the bridge and you just turn the corner
and it's kind of hidden in here.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And it's called the GAEME, which is the Center for
Comprehensive Migrant Services, is a state run agency that acts
as a processing center of sorts for migrants in what
is now Its goal is to provide a one stop
shop where migrants can apply for social services, where they
can get legal assistance.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
And also this is also where people are being metered.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Metering is another way the US and Mexican governments are
collaborating on border policy, even if it's a little unofficial.
So what metering means simply is that US officials have
been arbitrarily limiting the number of people who are allowed
to present themselves at the border each day to ask
for asylum.
Speaker 7 (16:47):
They're not letting them physically step foot into the United
States to legally seek asylum.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
They're saying we're full, go away.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
And when they say we're full, go away, they're Suddenly
a system emerged that was like, okay, taking thirty people today,
we're taking ten people today. We're taking no one today.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Once the US started taking fewer people, it caused a
huge backlog of migrants waiting in Mexico to ask for asylum,
and that's when the list began. It started as a
kind of makeshift list in a migrants notebook well over
a year ago, with new people arriving every day. It
(17:24):
kept track of who was here first and whose turn
it would be to go to the border and speak
to a US officer to present their claim. It was
the way migrants could take some control of the situation
and keep some order while they waited. Eventually, in what
is this government office took charge of the list.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
CBP receive alis persona's o ying nos camlos and illumero
yesinoento bentiocho.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
CBP we'll see ten people today, number nineteen four hundred
and twenty eight. A Mexican official calls this out to
a large room.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Qua quatrocento treenta.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
The person holding the number approaches the official to say
that they're.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
Here, pat you know, quatroc quadraqua.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
An official later tells me that at its highest point,
there are over six thousand people on the list at
once waiting for their number to be called. Right now
there are just two hundred names of people waiting on
the list. It's another sign that the policy wall is
doing the job it was meant to do. And even
though we saw it happening ourselves, Mexican officials won't admit
(18:55):
on the record that they're managing the list. They know
that work with the US on this would be controversial.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
And so this has been a pretty unofficial cooperation between
the two governments to what the United States is trying
to control the flow with. I believe no.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Justification, Riva says. Metering and the Remain in Mexico policy
work hand in hand. Metering keeps asylum seekers in Mexico
waiting for their number to be called, and once it
finally is the remain in Mexico policy then draws out
(19:37):
that weight. The problem is the US has exported a
key responsibility for dealing with highly vulnerable refugees their immediate
safety and protection. Mexico is left to figure it out,
and they have no requirement to prove anything is being done.
(19:58):
What Mexico has done is this, migrants on MPP are
now given a document which protects them from being deported
from Mexico while their case is pending. If they want
to work legally in Mexico while they're waiting or access healthcare,
they have to request something called a group, which is
basically like a temporary Social Security number, but it only
(20:19):
lasts six months. And whether they can get this document
in every border city or if it can be renewed,
depends on who you ask.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
I think that reflects the fact that on paper things
are one way, and then in practice.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's another's that's Maureen Mayor. She's an advocate at the
Washington Office on Latin America. She says Mexico is getting
by providing the bare minimum for those waiting under MPP.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
The Mexican government really promised originally to look at opportunities
for employment and other services. We really haven't seen that
pan out at the border or elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
In Quitas, Mexico's government has what they think is attempting
offer for those who have been forced to remain in
the north of Mexico and fear the high levels of
crime here. They're offering a free bus ride to the
south of Mexico while they weigh out their process.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
So one way ticket, you have to figure out on
your own how to get the funds to bust yourself
back up to the border. And obviously that poses the
question to what happens if your hearing date changes. So
it's I think it's for the most part a program
that the mexicanum adopted to try to get people out
of the northern border. But if they're really concerned about
(21:35):
supporting this population, you wouldn't send them all the way
back to southern Mexico.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
This is an instance where Mexico isn't just a passive
bystander to a US policy that pushes asylum seekers away
from the US border. This is one that Mexico has created.
Meyer thinks the point of the bussing program ultimately is
to convince people to just give up on their asylum claims.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Maybe if we can make it so uncomfortable and unbearable
to stay there, people just go home.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But for those who still decide to stay, the end
result of this policy wall we've been talking about is
that asylum seekers are stuck on the border for long
periods of time, living in shelters in an ambiguous legal status,
and that adds up to a situation that puts them
at risk. Which leads me to the story of M
(22:35):
and her seven year old daughter A. We're referring to
them by their first initials for their protection. Linda introduces
me to them at the migrant center, and later I'm
invited to visit M at the house where she's staying
to hear their story in a little bit more privacy,
(23:00):
living with an employee from the shelter, and in return
for a bedroom that she shares with her daughter, she
has to clean the house and keep things tidy. Em
says she traveled with her daughter as well as her
husband and young son from Monduras. Somewhere along the way,
they were split up and Em continued north with her
daughter alone. Then she tells me they were kidnapped just
(23:23):
hours after they arrived in what is.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yea in Mediunayama.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Em says she was sitting at a bus stop with
her daughter on the outskirts of the city, trying to
get downtown. It was dusk and by now it was cold.
They didn't have coats, which is the easiest way to
spot new arrivals to what is during the winter months.
Em says that a man sat down on the bench
next to her and asked where she was heading. Then
(24:08):
he got up and made a phone call, and a
few minutes later, a truck pulls up, a man gets out.
He flashes a gun and tells her to get in
with her daughter. Em says that they were taken to
a warehouse where ten other migrants were being held. She
says the kidnappers contacted their families for ransom money. Em
(24:30):
says when the kidnappers would take people out of the warehouse,
they never came back. M one day they came for her,
crammed her and her daughter, a and a few others
(24:52):
into the backseat of a car. She says, when they
got caught in traffic for a moment, she knew it
was now or never, since no ransom had been paid.
She managed to push open the car door and run
away with her daughter. The mom tells me that a
good Samaritan takes them to a shelter. It was so
packed there weren't enough beds or blankets, so mother and
(25:14):
daughter were forced to sleep on the floor in a
room full of strangers.
Speaker 12 (25:19):
Muchahinte mucha hendekovi hasna vie suficientropa.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And then one night at the shelter, something horrible happened.
Em says her young daughter woke up next to her naked,
and she believes her daughter was sexually assaulted. She took
her daughter to the doctor and tried to report this
to the police, but she says when they saw her
enduran i d they refused to take down a report.
(25:53):
Em says this entire thing has been eating away at
her ever since.
Speaker 12 (25:58):
Cisolo Misonoki mah who knew ka Mi Si who's ikas.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
M says she feels guilty. After all, she left Hodudas
to protect her kids and give them an education. She
says she had no way to know everything that they'd
go through, and still after all of this, they haven't
even been able to get into the United States, even
though the Remain in Mexico policy is supposed to make
an exception for migrants who are in very vulnerable positions.
(26:44):
M and her daughter, twice victims of crime in Mexico,
were told that they must remain in Mexico for however
long it takes for the United States to decide their case.
In the beginning, when Linda Rivas, the lawyer, first started
(27:04):
representing them, they were hopeful. But now the mom says
after her last hearing, she doesn't know what to think anymore.
The judge, she says, seemed like he didn't even care
to hear what had happened to them. And A, even
though she's only seven years old, she's picking up on
(27:26):
all of it.
Speaker 12 (27:28):
Said Mommy, joy no devas and mentira yelo de Miraira.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
The little girl tells her mom now that it's all
a lie, that the United States will never let them in.
She's clearly been affected by everything that they've gone through.
Her mom says that now her daughter rarely sleeps through
the night. As I was leaving, I decided to give
(27:58):
this little girl a b did prayer bracelet that I
was wearing. I tell her that she can count the
beads at night when she can't sleep, just the way
that I do. Juan luezo and then all of a sudden,
(28:28):
the little girl grabs her long hair, covers her face
with it, and she starts telling me that she's always
dreaming about her mom being kidnapped again. That's why she
wakes up crying in the middle of the night.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
M Le.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Mohammada. We didn't eat, she says. Then she tells me
that they were there for five days, that they mistreated her,
yelled at her, pushed her, told her that they'd be
killed if they didn't payaroy I. Then she says she
(29:21):
can't stop thinking about all the other people in the
car who didn't get a chance to escape. She says,
dio suos by you that God will help them, a
comforting phrase she's likely heard during these fearful times in
her life. And had told me that her daughter A
(29:47):
dreams of becoming a doctor. So I looked at a
in her eyes and I said, I know you can
become that doctor that you dream of becoming. I know
you can do it. Okay, see Mpiippians that get boy,
they said, it's ben defeaciing Okay, Okay. Kidnappings aren't new
(30:22):
in Mexico, but the number of violent attacks on migrants
are increasing. Over the last year, more than one thousand murders, rapes,
and kidnappings were reported in Mexico by migrants on MPP.
The remain in Mexico policy, and these are just the
reported cases. Advocates like Maureen Meyer say the numbers are
(30:46):
likely much higher.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
There's so many cases that are documented of asilence seekers
under the program that are magician of kidnapping, sexual assault, explorations, robbery.
That is also the responsibility in the Mexican government. The
Mexican government accepted this that the US is implementing there
and has done very little to ensure that anyone under
the partner is being adequately protected, is given in access
(31:10):
to shelter or any of the basic public services that
they need to be able to safely stay and pursue
their clients.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
On top of that, the chances of getting asylum approved
are extremely low. Just zero point one percent of MPP
cases have been granted, and since COVID nineteen began the
situation is even more bleak. Most have had their asylum
hearings postponed indefinitely as immigration courts shut down in the US.
(31:39):
That includes the case of M and A and the
asylum list that's done too. Restrictions are so tight now
that since late March, less than a dozen asylum seekers
have been allowed to enter into the United States. We're
(32:07):
in the desert, so we've been hot all day. You know,
it's been super warm all day. The sun is just
about to go down behind the mountains, and already the
temperature has dropped I don't know, ten degrees in a
matter of maybe fifteen minutes, but I'm already starting to
feel shivery. To think that there were children sleeping outside
(32:28):
in these conditions. It's all about making this as difficult
and as trying and as it's just breaking you down,
it's wearing you down. These are human beings, you know.
I mean, we're tough, you know, but there comes a
point where you just say, I just can't do this,
And that's where it's just like, Wow, how many more
(32:50):
are gonna never try and walk away? My trip to
what Is illuminated a lot about how policy changes have
effectively turned Mexico into a place of permanent limbo for
(33:13):
migrants and in between world a kind of barrier itself
between them and the United States, the policy wall. We've
talked about this episode pushes migrants deeper and deeper into
Mexico and away from the eyes of public accountability. But
stopping migrants at the northern border is only part of
(33:34):
the plan. Immigration opponents want to stop migrants long before
at the other end of Mexico, on its southern border
with Watemala, in a place called Tapachula.
Speaker 9 (33:47):
When I see.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's Saturday, January eleventh, and now I'm at the airport
and I'm getting ready to bord a flight to Tapachula,
I realized that the only way to really understand what's
happening at this northern border is to go to a
completely different one, much further south. And there's another reason
(34:13):
why I want to go to Tapachula. One year ago,
I met a young migrant named Josue in Matamoros. He
was my son's age twenty three at the time, and
he was living under a bridge hoping for a chance
to cross into the United States. Over the year, he's
kept in touch with me, and the last time I
(34:33):
spoke with him, he was living in Tapachula trying to
get back to the United States. And I've been talking
to him throughout my trip, making plans to finally see
him in Tapachula and hear his story. But now I
wasn't getting through to him, and so now I'm calling him.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Let's see.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Just rings and rings and r and rings. So I
don't know, you know, did somebody offer him a trip
and he just said I'm out? Did he get kidnapped?
Did he get put into a detention facility? Was he
arrested because he's sleeping on the street. So yeah, this
is exactly what it looks like. This is what thousands
of people are going through, which is suddenly you're not
(35:24):
in contact with this person. They're gone. Let's see what
happens when we get to Tapachuna. That's our flight. Okay,
that's our flight. My thanks to Jurrieta Martinelli for producing
(35:49):
that story with me. The movie Border series was produced
in partnership with the Pulitzer Center, with additional support provided
by the Ford Foundation. This series was edited by Merlin Bish.
The executive producer is Dian Selvester. That's it for Today.
(36:21):
Latino USA is produced by Mike Sargent, Julia Ta Martinelli,
Victori Estrada, Patricia Sulbaran, Gini Montago, Alejandra Salasa, Rinaldo, Reannoz Junior,
and Julia Rocha were edited by Andrea Lopez Cruzado and
Marta Martinez with help from Raoul Prees. Our editorial directors
Julio Ricardo Barela. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou, Julia Caruso
(36:42):
and Lea Sha Damron, with help this week from Gabriel A.
Bias and jj Carubin. Our digital editor is Louis Luna.
Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Mari Esquinka.
Our theme music was composed by Zenia Rubinos. If you
like the music you heard on this episode, stop by
Latino Usa dot org and check out our weekly Spodify playlist.
I'm your host and executive producer Madiaina Hossa. Join us
(37:04):
again on our next episode, and in the meantime find
us on social media. I'll see you there.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
I E.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,
working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,
the Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More
at hsfoundation dot org and the John D. And Catherine T.
(37:33):
MacArthur Foundation.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I'm Madie no Hosa. Next time on Latino Usa, SIEMA funk,
the so called Cuban James Brown talks about his journey
from medical school to the music industry. That's next Time
on Latino USA.
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