May 15, 2025 • 41 mins
Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg have lived every chapter of theSkimm’s story—from scrappy startup to multimillion-user platform to their recent acquisition by Ziff Davis. In this candid conversation, Farnoosh sits down with the co-founders to explore resilience, leadership, and how they’ve stayed deeply connected to their audience of millennial and Gen Z women. They open up about rejection, burnout, and the challenges of being women founders—including the ones that still persist. Plus, the story behind their viral #ShowUsYourLeave campaign, why caregiving is the next workplace frontier, and how they’re helping women navigate the realities of adulthood—with clarity, confidence, and just the right amount of Froot Loops.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
It was such a hard moment to have a disappointing
work day where you just kind of want to cry
and tell your friend or whomever, and then also have
to go out and then be in front of the
team and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and
not let them know. And I think those moments are
the ones that make you strong. They're the ones where
(00:29):
you learn to have a game phase. They're the ones
where you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem,
and also learn what kind of partners you want around
the table with you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The greatest gift that we had in this was the mistakes,
the failures, the learnings, and above all, the experience of
getting to build something that has meant something not only
to us and our team, but millions and millions of women.
And all of the things we did wrong was part
of the process.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That's Carli Zeken and Danielle Weisberg, co founders of The Skim,
reflecting on one of the hardest, most defining moments.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Of their journey.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
You probably know The Skim as a go to source
for smart, digestible news, but behind the brand is a
story of two friends who met in an NBC newsroom,
took out credit cards to fund their vision, and built
a media company that now reaches millions of women. On
this episode of Leading by Example, we go deep on
how they got there, the near breakdowns, the breakthroughs, and
(01:33):
the unapologetically honest leadership style they've honed along the way.
We also talk about their recent acquisition by Ziff Davis,
the weight of caregiving, and why building something that lasts
means doing the hard stuff and doing it with heart.
I'm furnished Taravi and this is leading by Example executives
(01:53):
making an impact. Carl ze Aken Danielle Weisberg, co founders
of this skim, Welcome to Leading by Example. It's such
a pleasure to be with you again.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's so good to see you. It's been a while.
Thank you for having us partners. We're so excited to
be here. Thank you for having us, and always good
to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I'm so honored to be one of the I'm going
to say one of the maybe the first journalists to
get a deep conversation with you post the news of
your partnership with Ziff Davis. I know that we can't
talk about the details of this partnership, but everybody's really excited.
And I guess you know, having known both of you
for well since the beginning of the SKIM, I have
(02:37):
to ask you now twelve years later, was this the
north star? Was this always on your vision board? Let's
just say to sort of bring the Skim to this
point where you're partnering and potentially scaling even.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
More, so I'll take this one. It's Danielle. I think
there are so many things in that. First of all,
we're so excited to be part of the Ziff Davis
Fai family, really excited for the Skin to be able
to partner and grow with an amazing partner behind us.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I think, being.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
An entrepreneur and a founder, there are two things that
when we think about the decision to have some sort
of exit outcome. The first is, ever, since we started,
we did not let ourselves quit, and there were definite
periods we came pretty close. So I think when you
(03:36):
talk about was this the path from the beginning, the
path from the beginning was to start a brand and
a company that would be huge and would go on
the Other thing I would say is that Carly and
I were really thoughtful about setting the company up for
optionality at different points, and the best way to do
(03:59):
that in all of these different crazy markets that we've
navigated was staying true to our audience, keeping the connection
with that, being very mindful about good business practices, about
thinking through what is your run we look like, what
(04:19):
is your stance on profitability? All of these things that
sound very obvious now, but when we started the company
in this adventure Craze and Heyday, that was not necessarily
the key metrics that were being discussed. And finally having
a big vision with that optionality, so we had certainly
(04:41):
thought about places that would be great strategic partners, and
for us, the key to all of it was having
a great business that was backed by and engaged audience.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I want to get into more of your audience, primarily
gen Z and millennial women, and I definitely want to
revisit moments when you thought about quitting, because that's all
of us and what made you endure. But Carly, do
you want to add anything to Danielle's overview there? I
think another question I had as she was speaking was
just any lessons learned along the way of this particular
(05:15):
leg of the journey the acquisition, things you wish you
had known or advice for other founders.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, you know, I think Danielle kind of captured it.
But being acquired by the Everyday Health Group, which is
under the ZIF Davis umbrella, is it a real honor.
I think we share a commitment to factual information, to
kind of a mode of trust with audiences. And I
think from really day one, Danielle and I have been
fortunate to have had lots of options over the years,
(05:41):
and I think when we have always written out what's
most important to us, it has always been does our
brand continue to grow, does our commitment to our audience
continue to grow? And what especially in this moment and
being now part of Everyday Health Group, their commitment to
really the things that are on our audience's mind. It
(06:03):
is something that just we couldn't ask for about our partner,
and so we're really really excited about it. Our team
is really excited about it and allows us to do
more for our audience, which has always been our north star.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's particularly special when you think about how you both
started as colleagues at NBC, you know, the breaking news,
all of that sort of and then realizing there's this
underserved market of women particularly at the time millennials and
now gen Z and the two of you said, hey,
let's start a company. Let's start a content platform, and
(06:36):
you chose to start with email newsletter, which still today
is where a lot of media companies choose to start.
Can you tell us a little bit about the strategy
behind that? And that was in twenty twelve and it
has endured. You know that particular lane is valuable and
from that is like a sort of a flywheel we
can get into sort of all the other offerings that
(06:56):
this scheme has. But that would you say was a
good disc decision that going back, you wouldn't have maybe
done a podcast to start or a website to start.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think it was the best decision we ever made,
And I would love to say we looked at all
of those things and we decided email was the best. Honestly,
we picked email because it was the easiest tool that
we could stand up without designers, without techlift, and we
could communicate directly to an audience. But as we started
(07:29):
to grow, we started to think about email much more strategically.
And I think that's what brands and people creators have
come to realize, because in twenty twelve, It was not popular.
It took a long long time. I would say, honestly,
probably in the past eighteen months did email become cool.
(07:49):
What we saw was a direct way to communicate with
your audience and know who they are, and that email
is still something that you use in your day to
day I use lte lots of other messaging things, but
email is still a method of communication that you use,
especially when you enter the workforce, which was when we
(08:10):
marked our audience entering into the skim funnel, because it
is something that you look for people information that you
actually trust and want to open. So we felt then
like we feel now that if you are creating something
based off of engagement, based off of really wanting to
(08:31):
create a community, and one at scale in a very
cost effective way, email I still think is king.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And specifically the way that you wrote the emails I
remember and maybe that changed over the years, but I'm
curious for you to share this, you know, like no
exclamation points.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I really really appreciate that you remember that. I know, right,
our team, who I hope listens to this is going
to laugh real hard because that was the hill I
was going to die on. I was like, we will
not do an exclamation point. I felt very passionate about that.
But no, I think what you're referencing is really a
conversational tone.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
The voice.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, a voice, and how we talk to our friends
and how we emailed our friends. And I think over
the years, we've gotten asked in so many different environments,
in different situations of like how do you capture talking
to this audience? And we're like, we are authentic to
this audience, Like we're not trying to put on a
(09:30):
voice to be like, hey, we're millennials too. It's just
honestly like the voice of how we speak to one another.
And I think in the earliest days that it meant grammar,
like we technically sometimes would write things that weren't grammatically correct,
but we're conversationally correct. And I remember people used to
like write in and be like, do you want me
(09:51):
to be your grammarian, and house we were like, no,
we actually really know how to have good grammar, but
we were really trying to capture what an email from
a friend sounded like. And you know, over time, the
voice grew up, our audience grew up, but especially in
those early days, it really was meant to sound like,
you just got an email from like your college roommate,
(10:13):
And we had so many people actually write in and
be like, does my college roommate secretly work for you?
The sounds just like her.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And you're covering topics like geopolitics and race relations as
well as pop culture. So to do that consistently across
all these different storylines and story themes is no small feet.
You really knew your audience, and I don't think it's
just that, oh well, we were one with the audience,
so we tested ourselves.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
You did a lot of research.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What did you learn about your audience at the time,
and how has it evolved?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
How do you keep up with your audience?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, it helps to be part of your audience, which
you know is the honest truth. We started it for
our friends and our family, and so it's always been
an organic experience. Now, of course we had to scale
that and that's a different part of the conversation. But
for us, it was really about thinking through the idea
that in an age of personalization, in an age of
(11:14):
so much information overload, but lack of trust, and also
lack of a focus on or maybe not a focus,
but a true understanding of what are the real everyday
pressures on women's mind. We always use that as our
north star. So we wanted to make sure that anyone
(11:35):
in our audience could feel equipped to participate or start
a conversation and learn from viewpoints, but to never have
like a deer in the headlights moment. And that is
how we started and it grew from there as our
lives got more complicated with growing up, parents, partners, kids,
(11:58):
the decisions around having or being part of all of
those things. What goes along with that financially, emotionally, and
at the root of all of it too is we
went through a pandemic health, like actual health became so
much a part of the foundation. If you don't have that,
(12:19):
you're not going to have anything. And to have that,
what do you need to think about financially And that
took on a lot of different delivery methods, cross platforms,
but the idea that as you grow up, you are
having to think about these things, whether you like it
or not. Just like you need to know about what's
going on in the world, you need to know about
(12:41):
what's going on in your world. Honestly, I hate thinking
about the intricacies of my finance, but I need to
do it, And a lot of people felt that way
about knowing what's going on in the news that day.
So we wanted to take the stigma away that these
are things that are really hard to get into. Make
it casual, make it part if someone's routine, Make it
(13:01):
community based. And that's really how we thought about scaling
into the different franchises that we have today.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, what I'm hearing is you didn't underestimate your female audience,
and you met her where she was at. And the
community piece is also really really important, whether it's trying
to learn about something that is not in your wheelhouse
but is important, or getting to the gym. Hard things
you know, the more the merrier, and you definitely provided
(13:29):
that community. When we come back, Carley and Danielle open
up about leading through COVID and how showing emotion at
work became a turning point. They also share the story
behind their viral hashtag show us Your Leave campaign, what
it revealed about working motherhood in America, and why they
believe vulnerability can be a strategic advantage.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
can't believe I just started to basically cry in front
of our team, and then I think that that vulnerability
came a strength in leadership that I don't think either
of us ever would have embraced before.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Stay with us. Let's talk about growing pains though twelve years.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You don't go twelve thirteen years without some, as you said,
moments where you wanted to quit. So what's one that
really stands out and that had really good resolve in
the end.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I think when I look back, how I would have
described us individually when we started the SKIM, I would
have said we're really focused people and we're really resilient,
and I would have been completely wrong because we weren't
those things twelve and a half years ago. I think
we learned those things, those muscles over this journey. I
remember our first lead investors was Homebrew Ventures and they
(14:53):
were product people by nature, and they taught us focus
and we're like no, we're very focused, Like no, this
is what it was and to be like product focused
and that completely changed how we thought about what to
say yes too. I just say no to how to
scale and grow. And I think on the resilient part,
we would have considered ourselves like very strong individuals who
(15:15):
like had had some life experience. But when I look back, boy,
we had no idea what was in store for us
personally or professionally. And I think that muscle, it is
a muscle, and we literally built it over time. And
so when you look back, we've been through let's just
call it three recessions, whether they've been formally acknowledged as
recessions or not. A pandemic personal highs and lows. And
(15:39):
there's two moments I'll just like never forget. And they
seemed like blips, but at the moment, like they felt
so big. It was one of our earliest rounds of funding.
We're like, we got this, and it was an investor
that we thought had committed verbally, but I don't think
we like really understood what that meant. And we were
still learning how to fundraise. And we had the small
office and our team sitting outside and we had this
(16:01):
like little kitchen and that's the only place that we
could take a private call. And so we went into
this little kitchen and it happened to be lunchtime. We
cleared everybody out and we had this call at the
investor and the investor was like, we're not going to
participate in this round. And I remember it was like
a movie, like I like physically like slid down the
refrigerator door to the floor, and we had our team
(16:23):
outside who were all trying to come in to get
their lunch from the fridge. We were like, not now,
not now. And I just remember Danielle and I sitting
on the floor with our laptops in this kitchen staring
at each other and being like, what are we going
to do? And we closed the round again. This was
such a blip in the story of the skim and
(16:45):
it wasn't even for a lot of money when you
look at what we raised, but that felt like a
punch in the gut where I was like, how do
we keep doing this? And it was such a hard
moment to like have a disappointing work day where you
just kind of want to cry, I tell your friend
or whomever, and then also have to go out of
the kitchen and then be in front of the team
(17:06):
and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and not
let them know. And I think those moments are the
ones that make you strong. They're the ones where you
learn to have a game face. They're the ones where
you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem
which we solved and it was fine. And also learn
what kind of partners you want around the table with you.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Thank you for taking us back to that moment.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I think rejection is part of so many people's realities,
whether you're a founder or whatever role you have in
your career. Did that rejection fuel your drive to go
and close that round? Did you actually exceed what you
thought you would get because now you had this new
found gumption.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, And actually it fueled us in a surprising way
because we went to a mutual friend of this investor
and we were like, can you believe they did this
to us? And that mutual friend called the investor and
was like, what's up? And they had their own reasons
why they didn't want to invest, but they said that
we had cried and we did not cry. I forgot
(18:12):
about that. I didn't know where you were going with this.
We did not cry. I cried about it when I
got off the phone, but not to the person on
the phone. And same thing with Danielle, and that pissed
us off so much that we were like a few
like we didn't cry, Like there's no crying, and basic, yeah,
there is but to be clear, like we were businesswomen,
(18:33):
we held our own and like you know, it would
have been fine if we did, but we didn't, and
that really pissed us off. And that was like the
fuel that we were like, we will show you and
you were going to regret this, and they did.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It speaks to such a huge problem right of women,
especially women who are in rolls of high ambition founding companies,
that you get sort of characterized, you get misunderstood, you
get discriminated against. How often was that part of your
journey all the time?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Time? Still? Yeah, still even now when you have climbed
the hill.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, all the time, even where we are today, all
the time.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And I think part of it is I can spot it,
whereas maybe five years ago, ten years ago, I'd be like, oh,
that's just because I'm young, or that's because I haven't
gotten to this part of my business yet.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But I think now, you know, we're still young, but like.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
We've been doing this a long time, those things are
not the reason why. And I also think because we
are very lucky to have grown up in this kind
of entrepreneur founder community with also other women who have
gone through it, and so there are themes, but I
also think what I dislike about it is it's real.
(19:52):
It is part of this, and it's also something that
I would say, you got to pick your battles and
figure out how much you're going to let it get
to you.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And I do think just to add like one of
the positives of leadership in COVID as, I think it
forced I don't mean to really use masks in a
flippant way in this case, but it forced a leadership
mass to come down for everybody, and I think that
was actually a very positive thing. Where the first time
actually that I think either of us ever got emotional
(20:25):
in front of our team was during COVID Yeah, and
I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
can't believe I just started just basically cried in front
of our team. And then I think that that vulnerability
became a strength in leadership that I don't think either
of us ever would have embraced before. And we saw
that in our male peers and mentors and our female
peers and mentors, and so I want to clarify that
(20:48):
having vulnerability or emotion is not the thing that annoys us.
I think that can be a strength, and I think
that can be very honest, and we've had those moments.
I think it is the BS around two younger female.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Founders a judgment.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, And I think we would have had very different
experiences had we been solo founders, And we also have
very unique experiences because there were two of us.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You brought up COVID, and I think what really rose
to the surface will it was unmasked during COVID, was
how much caregiving was a huge part of everyone's lives,
whether it's because you have children, you have parents who
are taking care of you have your own mental health
that you're caring And this actually became a huge platform
for the two of you as leaders, and I would
love for you to share your insights as well as
(21:36):
how you've taken action since COVID to provide more of
an inclusive environment and a supportive environment for your caregivers
at work and not just at the SKIM but at
many companies.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So we started something very organically called show Us Your Leave.
This was under the Biden administration. Congress did not pass
family leave in the way that everyone had hoped for
caregivers basically, and Danielle and I were like literally texting
about it and we're texting about it when Danielle's child
care ended for the day and one of her kids
(22:07):
was having a tantrum on the floor and we were
trying to work, and it was like, this is literally
the problem, and we posted about it and we just
made up like a hashtag. We said show us your leave,
what did your leave look like? And I can't even
explain to you how many messages we got and how
quickly people started posting with their own versions of their
(22:29):
stories with that hashtat I mean crazy stories like a
nick you nurse who had to go back to work
ten days after giving birth and her own child was
in the nicku and like she had to go then
take care of other children, like I mean, made no sense.
We had one woman who literally sent us photos of
her hooked up to the contraction monitor with the laptop
(22:52):
on the table next to her because she had to
clock in till midnight to be able to qualify for leave.
You were like, I can't even believe this is our
country and this is not a part is an issue.
This is a failure systemically across our country. And it
turned into an advocacy movement where we had over seven
hundred companies for the first time publicly and transparently share
(23:16):
what their leave policies were, and we created a template
for our audience to share that data, and in many
cases those policies were changed. That then evolved into show
us her childcare, which was, Okay, you've had a family leave,
how do you go back to work if that's what
you're choosing to do, or how do you kind of function?
What does childcare look like for you? We all know
(23:37):
that the cost of that is not sustainable, and in particular,
women are not getting help. And we did that at
the same time very similarly to a survey that we
ran called the State of Women, and that was really
an economic report of how is she doing? This is
like post pandemic, how are we? And you know, like
we are this audience. We weren't expecting the results to
(23:59):
be like, I'm doing great, but it was so much
worse than we thought it was going to be. Eighty
three percent of our audience said they identify as a
chief warry officer. And that is such a mental health problem.
And again part of what we're so excited about with
our new partners every day health is like so much
(24:21):
of the work that they do is actually addressing a
lot of her mental health concerns with amazing partnerships that's
going to allow us to serve her better. But I
think these sort of advocacy moments have been a very
organic evolution to our brand that have awoken our audience
(24:43):
in a way with like not just giving them that
they know what they're frustrated by, but actually giving them
the tools to talk about it or in some cases
actually create change. And we've since then a lot of
further brand campaigns that have looked at their health in
similar ways and really just about mobilizing this audience. And
I think that a lot of that came to fruition
(25:04):
because of the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So tell me about how you've chosen your brand expansions.
You started out covering the news primarily, but then got
into other areas.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So taking myself back in time to COVID, it's actually
still now a hard thing to do, but we started
to really lean in again to building franchises and extending
the brand based off of what we as people were
worried about and were interested in, and that meant one
(25:37):
as our commerce business exploded. That was when we started
it and it was like, we're all doing it, we
may as well make it like a effective fun and
I guess we talk about being time well spent. And
we started our skim shopping franchise during that because we
were all spending money online, so let's make sure it's
(25:59):
going to small businesses. Carly and I kicked off something
around women of colors, businesses and small businesses on our
Instagram and that was something that went into our skin
shopping franchise and just really started thinking about this is
actually how we're spending a lot of time since we're
trapped at home, so how can we make it time
and money well spent? And then that started going into
(26:22):
the evolution of our skin Money franchise, which to that
point we had been building out a very i would
say complicated app and product experience and we had rate
us money for it and we were about to launch it,
and the pandemic hits and we see that we have
so many questions around filing for unemployment. What should I
(26:45):
do in a recession? And again, as a generation, we
had actually gone through this when we were graduating college
starting to try to move up in the workforce or
get a job. And I think Because of that, we
were primed to be like, this is not going to
be fun. We need to figure out what we're going
to do because there's a high likelihood that we're going
(27:07):
to get laid off. And that started us on a
very big business decision with our board's approval, and they
really had our back here, which was to sunset the
product that we've been working on to really think about
we need to create community and we need to really
get ahead of the questions that are going to come up.
(27:31):
And so we started launching skim Money as a virtual
events series and then it built out from there, and
the idea around skim well really started around caring for ourselves.
And there was so much misinformation out there and so
much just fear, as we all had rightfully, so we
(27:53):
didn't know what was going to happen. So it was
less about trying to keep up with what was going
on in medical news and much more about how do
you actually take care of yourself because you can't control
what's going on out there, so how do you create
some sort of wellness practice? And that really became those
eighteen months when we really started to define and move
(28:17):
forward these three big parts of our business that have
grown significantly since then.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
What will you be advocating for women in your audience
going forward? Do you think like what has yet to
be really addressed or is a new topic that you
think is surfacing.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, we've talked about caregiving, but it's really been in
the context of caring for kids mostly, And when we
decided to talk about caregiving, we really thought a lot
about aging parents. And what I think is different than
even when we started to think about the topic and
(28:57):
the subject is all of this this is happening at
the same time, and there are so many resources for
how you should plan try to regulate yourself. For like
the idea of parenting. It is a really flooded space,
and yet there are still really big needs in that
(29:18):
and there is a need for community, There are a
need for tools, there is a need for more financial support.
But then when you think about caregiving on the other end,
for parents or for whatever kind of older dependence you're
thinking about, there's still a stigma attached to it because
to me, it's kind of like you think about retirement
(29:39):
communities but not necessarily all of the other things, and
like I'm knocking on wood, but like right now, that
is not on my mind, But there are so many
other parts of this that should be on my mind,
including how do you think about the trade offs? There's
been a meme floating around and maybe it's just like
this is the type of content that I get, But
(30:01):
it was like something about your kids being mad when
you have to move in with them because you saved
for their college and not your retirement. Yeah, that's a
lot of people that is exactly what we're being faced
with now. But what that should say is your kids
being mad because you have to move in with them
because you paid for your boomer parents' situation. We love
(30:24):
our boomers, we love our parents, but that generation did
not make such great financial decisions, and we are now
at a place where we need to think about how
do we take care of them, how do we take
care of ourselves, and how do we take care of kids?
And I have no clue as an individual how to
do that. So how can people who are not having
(30:44):
the luxury of being able to sit here and peace
through these problems and create content and talk to experts
about that? How are they thinking through it? And it's
the easiest thing to bury your head in the sand
about because no one wants to take that on.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Well, because what are we really talking about. We're talking
about the end of life too, you know, and that
is such a hard thing to face. We're talking about money,
which we've already discussed is super taboo. And then you're
talking about millennial women, women largely at the forefront of caregiving.
So we've already got a lot on our plate. We've
been through three recessions. Oh, we're the ones who are
supposed to shoulder all this financial and emotional stress. Yeah,
(31:25):
it's it's a lot, and I agree with you. I
think this is a huge opportunity to uplift, educate, empower
women and families around this. Thank you for bringing that
to our attention. All right, let's talk about the future
a little bit. Your hope streams what's on your vision
board right now, Danielle Carly, mostly for your audience.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I think for our audience. I keep replaying that stat
in my head of like the chief Warrior Officer that
I referenced. I think we are spending a lot of
time actually talking about with Danielle was just saying, which
is we're the Sandwich generation, and the idea of like
how do we help her prep How does the SKIM
(32:05):
help her prepare for the stuff that you don't want
to deal with in some cases don't even know that
you're going to have to deal with. And that is
everything from like do you have the password to get
into your parents iPhone or any phone? Do you have
the power of attorney docs filled? Have you had a
tough conversation with them about choices that they want or
(32:27):
options that they have, or their financial situation? And these
aren't like pretty topics, And I think what the SKIM
is always done, you know, And I look back to
how we started. We started it was like the height
of the Syrian Civil War, and I remember people were like,
people are not going to want to read this, it's
very depressing. We're like, it is very depressing and they
(32:47):
need to And the SKIM, you know, it did take off.
And it's because we made that information palpable, we made
it easier to understand. And I think our goal would
be to help this audience navigate this next phase of
her life and her loved ones lives. And we are
just really obsessed about where she is at this life
(33:08):
stage moment, and it is how does she have the
life that she wants and deal with the responsibilities that
are really sitting on her shoulders and nobody is there
to help her.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
She can do hard things, as they say, yeah, yes
she can.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
If you were starting the skim today, would you do
anything differently?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh that's a good Oh my gosh, yes, everything really well.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean in the fact that we had thirteen years
to practice, so you know where it ends up, like,
I think I would do everything differently, meaning that if
I had known where.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
We were going, I would have been a lot less
stressed out.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
But I think in some ways, no, I wouldn't do
anything differently because the greatest gift that we had in
this was the mistakes, the failures, the learnings, and above all,
the experience of getting to build something that has meant
something not only to us and our team, but millions
and millions of women. And all of the things we
(34:04):
did wrong was part of the process.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, the worry part that seems to be a theme here,
you know, facing it, trying to avoid it. And lastly,
we ask this of all of our guests, what does
leading by example mean to you?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Don't ask your team to do something that you wouldn't
do or that you haven't done yourself. It's I think
a very founder position. Like we've literally built desks, taken
off the trash, we have made social assets, we have
done mass email blasts flying, yeah, all of it. We've
(34:40):
gone up to random people on the street and said,
do you know what the skim is?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Can I tell you about it? Which sounds so creepy.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Now, So when you think about these things that you
would ask someone to do, I think you're more able
to paint a picture of why, not that you should
always have to paint that picture, but you actually a
real why behind why you're asking someone to do something.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, I think my answer comes off of that, which
is there's this weird thing that I think has to
happen in leadership where for a company to get something
off the ground, you kind of have to flex above
your weight class. You have to believe and see the
bigger version of what you're creating and like own it
and be and feel bigger than maybe you are at
(35:25):
that moment. And at the same time, you need to
show the humility with your team, and you need to
know how to do almost every job that you're going
to end up hiring somebody for or at least why
you're hiring them because you can't, like, I'm not going
to be the one to build you an Excel model.
I know why we hired our finance team, but I
(35:45):
think those skills are so important, and I think we
obviously certainly did that in the beginning. And I do
think when I look back COVID and kind of the
humbling of COVID for everybody brought that back to life.
And again when I look at sort of like what
are the positives to take away from like a really
hard time in leadership? That is one.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Dream big, but keep it real.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yes, that is much more sistinctuis.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
This has been so good. Thank you so much for
sitting with us, Danielle and Carly. Congratulations on this.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
And this is in some ways the beginning of a
new future. You know, it's not the end, it's the beginning.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
We are very excited and we feel very grateful to
have the phenomenal partners at everyday health group that we do.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
All right, Ryan, that was Carly and Danielle. What'd you
think I've known them for years. It's always a pleasure
to sit down with those two women. They are always
so honest, so transparent, I relate a lot to their story,
not in the sense that I built this incredible media empire,
but that I started in news.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I had friends that I sat next to you in
the newsroom.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
We didn't have the conversations my friends and I in
the newsroom, like let's start a media empire one day,
but they did. And you know one thing they didn't
talk about, which I know about them, is how they
were roommates and they took out credit card debt to
start the skim And so to fast forward to today
to see how far they've come, the wins, the losses,
the setbacks, was a really nice moment for all of us.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Yeah, they were incredible just to hear from founders who
are so incredibly grounded. I was really impressed with given
their you know, stratospheric trajectory of starting from such humble
beginnings to the company they now are in the company
they now keep. It was just really refreshing to hear
how they still talk about things like I loved their
(37:39):
wrap up when it came to not being afraid to
do the little things the day to day of running
a company, whether it's taking out the trash or building desks,
that really was nice to hear from someone in their position.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yes, and growing up with their audience. They are very
dedicated to their audience. They have been very intentional from
day one to service her and to learn as much
about her, get ahead of her questions, to provide the
products and the content that they know she needs, even
(38:13):
if she doesn't want to learn it. I love what
they were like, it's important the Civil War and Syria.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
It's important. It's depressing, but you need to learn it.
So we're going to give it to you.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
We're going to feed your vegetables, but it's going to
taste like fruit loops.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
And I love how clear that voice is because I
think that's a big testament to their success. And something
I really took away from this conversation was the fact
that they had such a clear picture of their voice
and how they wanted to speak to their audience from
the get go and communicating with that authenticity and making
a real connection with their audience is something that they've
maintained from twelve thirteen years ago to today, and I
(38:48):
think it's a big sign of their success. And like
I said, something that I really took away from the
conversation today is just that authenticity of voice.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, both as leaders and as content creators, for sure, And.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
I especially appreciated even things like the flexibility with grammar
and the idea that they could speak directly to their
audience in a way that their audiences used to being
spoken to in their own homes and their own workplaces.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Which was a delineation at the time.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
You know, people weren't writing emails in the way that
they were in such a conversational tone and wait a minute,
no exclamation points. You know, they were very specific about
their tone and their style, and they stuck with it.
And I also was a little surprised a little I
don't know why I was when they were describing the aggressions,
let's just say, and the characterizations, the false characterizations as
(39:36):
women founders, that they're still dealing with this bs sometimes
and they've gotten maybe quote unquote better at navigating it
and so far as choosing their battles, but I was
disheartened to hear that that is still part of what
they have to deal with, hopefully not day to day,
but it still shows up even for a woman who
climbs the top of the hill as a founder. I mean,
(39:57):
really like an exit is what only so many can
hope for, and yet here they still are.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
And that's why I'm so glad we can have conversations
like this on this show, is that it's good for
our audience and their audience to hear that even at
the pinnacle, at the peak, they're still dealing with the
same things that people are dealing within their daily lives.
And that speaks also to just their transparency and authenticity.
And it's such a shame that we still have to
have these conversations. That's so frustrating, but I think it's
(40:27):
really important that we do have these conversations so that
we can highlight that that's still happening and how they've
dealt with it.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
And how they've maintained their standards and they've continued to
be successful in spite of all of that. So yeah,
thank you for their transparency around it. That was really
an important thing.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Such a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Well, listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much
as we did. If you like what you're hearing, please
follow and subscribes you don't miss out on any new episodes,
And as always, we want to hear your thoughts to
make this the best show possible.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Ease leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
In the meantime, you can find me at Farnoosh Charabi
on Instagram and I'm always on the So Money podcast.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our
executive producer is Matt Stillo and our supervising producer is
Nikiah Swinton.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
This podcast was edited by Sierra Spreen.
It was such a hard moment to have a disappointing
work day where you just kind of want to cry
and tell your friend or whomever, and then also have
to go out and then be in front of the
team and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and
not let them know. And I think those moments are
the ones that make you strong. They're the ones where
(00:29):
you learn to have a game phase. They're the ones
where you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem,
and also learn what kind of partners you want around
the table with you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The greatest gift that we had in this was the mistakes,
the failures, the learnings, and above all, the experience of
getting to build something that has meant something not only
to us and our team, but millions and millions of women.
And all of the things we did wrong was part
of the process.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That's Carli Zeken and Danielle Weisberg, co founders of The Skim,
reflecting on one of the hardest, most defining moments.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Of their journey.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
You probably know The Skim as a go to source
for smart, digestible news, but behind the brand is a
story of two friends who met in an NBC newsroom,
took out credit cards to fund their vision, and built
a media company that now reaches millions of women. On
this episode of Leading by Example, we go deep on
how they got there, the near breakdowns, the breakthroughs, and
(01:33):
the unapologetically honest leadership style they've honed along the way.
We also talk about their recent acquisition by Ziff Davis,
the weight of caregiving, and why building something that lasts
means doing the hard stuff and doing it with heart.
I'm furnished Taravi and this is leading by Example executives
(01:53):
making an impact. Carl ze Aken Danielle Weisberg, co founders
of this skim, Welcome to Leading by Example. It's such
a pleasure to be with you again.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's so good to see you. It's been a while.
Thank you for having us partners. We're so excited to
be here. Thank you for having us, and always good
to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I'm so honored to be one of the I'm going
to say one of the maybe the first journalists to
get a deep conversation with you post the news of
your partnership with Ziff Davis. I know that we can't
talk about the details of this partnership, but everybody's really excited.
And I guess you know, having known both of you
for well since the beginning of the SKIM, I have
(02:37):
to ask you now twelve years later, was this the
north star? Was this always on your vision board? Let's
just say to sort of bring the Skim to this
point where you're partnering and potentially scaling even.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
More, so I'll take this one. It's Danielle. I think
there are so many things in that. First of all,
we're so excited to be part of the Ziff Davis
Fai family, really excited for the Skin to be able
to partner and grow with an amazing partner behind us.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I think, being.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
An entrepreneur and a founder, there are two things that
when we think about the decision to have some sort
of exit outcome. The first is, ever, since we started,
we did not let ourselves quit, and there were definite
periods we came pretty close. So I think when you
(03:36):
talk about was this the path from the beginning, the
path from the beginning was to start a brand and
a company that would be huge and would go on
the Other thing I would say is that Carly and
I were really thoughtful about setting the company up for
optionality at different points, and the best way to do
(03:59):
that in all of these different crazy markets that we've
navigated was staying true to our audience, keeping the connection
with that, being very mindful about good business practices, about
thinking through what is your run we look like, what
(04:19):
is your stance on profitability? All of these things that
sound very obvious now, but when we started the company
in this adventure Craze and Heyday, that was not necessarily
the key metrics that were being discussed. And finally having
a big vision with that optionality, so we had certainly
(04:41):
thought about places that would be great strategic partners, and
for us, the key to all of it was having
a great business that was backed by and engaged audience.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I want to get into more of your audience, primarily
gen Z and millennial women, and I definitely want to
revisit moments when you thought about quitting, because that's all
of us and what made you endure. But Carly, do
you want to add anything to Danielle's overview there? I
think another question I had as she was speaking was
just any lessons learned along the way of this particular
(05:15):
leg of the journey the acquisition, things you wish you
had known or advice for other founders.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, you know, I think Danielle kind of captured it.
But being acquired by the Everyday Health Group, which is
under the ZIF Davis umbrella, is it a real honor.
I think we share a commitment to factual information, to
kind of a mode of trust with audiences. And I
think from really day one, Danielle and I have been
fortunate to have had lots of options over the years,
(05:41):
and I think when we have always written out what's
most important to us, it has always been does our
brand continue to grow, does our commitment to our audience
continue to grow? And what especially in this moment and
being now part of Everyday Health Group, their commitment to
really the things that are on our audience's mind. It
(06:03):
is something that just we couldn't ask for about our partner,
and so we're really really excited about it. Our team
is really excited about it and allows us to do
more for our audience, which has always been our north star.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's particularly special when you think about how you both
started as colleagues at NBC, you know, the breaking news,
all of that sort of and then realizing there's this
underserved market of women particularly at the time millennials and
now gen Z and the two of you said, hey,
let's start a company. Let's start a content platform, and
(06:36):
you chose to start with email newsletter, which still today
is where a lot of media companies choose to start.
Can you tell us a little bit about the strategy
behind that? And that was in twenty twelve and it
has endured. You know that particular lane is valuable and
from that is like a sort of a flywheel we
can get into sort of all the other offerings that
(06:56):
this scheme has. But that would you say was a
good disc decision that going back, you wouldn't have maybe
done a podcast to start or a website to start.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think it was the best decision we ever made,
And I would love to say we looked at all
of those things and we decided email was the best. Honestly,
we picked email because it was the easiest tool that
we could stand up without designers, without techlift, and we
could communicate directly to an audience. But as we started
(07:29):
to grow, we started to think about email much more strategically.
And I think that's what brands and people creators have
come to realize, because in twenty twelve, It was not popular.
It took a long long time. I would say, honestly,
probably in the past eighteen months did email become cool.
(07:49):
What we saw was a direct way to communicate with
your audience and know who they are, and that email
is still something that you use in your day to
day I use lte lots of other messaging things, but
email is still a method of communication that you use,
especially when you enter the workforce, which was when we
(08:10):
marked our audience entering into the skim funnel, because it
is something that you look for people information that you
actually trust and want to open. So we felt then
like we feel now that if you are creating something
based off of engagement, based off of really wanting to
(08:31):
create a community, and one at scale in a very
cost effective way, email I still think is king.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And specifically the way that you wrote the emails I
remember and maybe that changed over the years, but I'm
curious for you to share this, you know, like no
exclamation points.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I really really appreciate that you remember that. I know, right,
our team, who I hope listens to this is going
to laugh real hard because that was the hill I
was going to die on. I was like, we will
not do an exclamation point. I felt very passionate about that.
But no, I think what you're referencing is really a
conversational tone.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
The voice.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, a voice, and how we talk to our friends
and how we emailed our friends. And I think over
the years, we've gotten asked in so many different environments,
in different situations of like how do you capture talking
to this audience? And we're like, we are authentic to
this audience, Like we're not trying to put on a
(09:30):
voice to be like, hey, we're millennials too. It's just
honestly like the voice of how we speak to one another.
And I think in the earliest days that it meant grammar,
like we technically sometimes would write things that weren't grammatically correct,
but we're conversationally correct. And I remember people used to
like write in and be like, do you want me
(09:51):
to be your grammarian, and house we were like, no,
we actually really know how to have good grammar, but
we were really trying to capture what an email from
a friend sounded like. And you know, over time, the
voice grew up, our audience grew up, but especially in
those early days, it really was meant to sound like,
you just got an email from like your college roommate,
(10:13):
And we had so many people actually write in and
be like, does my college roommate secretly work for you?
The sounds just like her.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And you're covering topics like geopolitics and race relations as
well as pop culture. So to do that consistently across
all these different storylines and story themes is no small feet.
You really knew your audience, and I don't think it's
just that, oh well, we were one with the audience,
so we tested ourselves.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
You did a lot of research.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What did you learn about your audience at the time,
and how has it evolved?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
How do you keep up with your audience?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, it helps to be part of your audience, which
you know is the honest truth. We started it for
our friends and our family, and so it's always been
an organic experience. Now, of course we had to scale
that and that's a different part of the conversation. But
for us, it was really about thinking through the idea
that in an age of personalization, in an age of
(11:14):
so much information overload, but lack of trust, and also
lack of a focus on or maybe not a focus,
but a true understanding of what are the real everyday
pressures on women's mind. We always use that as our
north star. So we wanted to make sure that anyone
(11:35):
in our audience could feel equipped to participate or start
a conversation and learn from viewpoints, but to never have
like a deer in the headlights moment. And that is
how we started and it grew from there as our
lives got more complicated with growing up, parents, partners, kids,
(11:58):
the decisions around having or being part of all of
those things. What goes along with that financially, emotionally, and
at the root of all of it too is we
went through a pandemic health, like actual health became so
much a part of the foundation. If you don't have that,
(12:19):
you're not going to have anything. And to have that,
what do you need to think about financially And that
took on a lot of different delivery methods, cross platforms,
but the idea that as you grow up, you are
having to think about these things, whether you like it
or not. Just like you need to know about what's
going on in the world, you need to know about
(12:41):
what's going on in your world. Honestly, I hate thinking
about the intricacies of my finance, but I need to
do it, And a lot of people felt that way
about knowing what's going on in the news that day.
So we wanted to take the stigma away that these
are things that are really hard to get into. Make
it casual, make it part if someone's routine, Make it
(13:01):
community based. And that's really how we thought about scaling
into the different franchises that we have today.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, what I'm hearing is you didn't underestimate your female audience,
and you met her where she was at. And the
community piece is also really really important, whether it's trying
to learn about something that is not in your wheelhouse
but is important, or getting to the gym. Hard things
you know, the more the merrier, and you definitely provided
(13:29):
that community. When we come back, Carley and Danielle open
up about leading through COVID and how showing emotion at
work became a turning point. They also share the story
behind their viral hashtag show us Your Leave campaign, what
it revealed about working motherhood in America, and why they
believe vulnerability can be a strategic advantage.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
can't believe I just started to basically cry in front
of our team, and then I think that that vulnerability
came a strength in leadership that I don't think either
of us ever would have embraced before.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Stay with us. Let's talk about growing pains though twelve years.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You don't go twelve thirteen years without some, as you said,
moments where you wanted to quit. So what's one that
really stands out and that had really good resolve in
the end.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I think when I look back, how I would have
described us individually when we started the SKIM, I would
have said we're really focused people and we're really resilient,
and I would have been completely wrong because we weren't
those things twelve and a half years ago. I think
we learned those things, those muscles over this journey. I
remember our first lead investors was Homebrew Ventures and they
(14:53):
were product people by nature, and they taught us focus
and we're like no, we're very focused, Like no, this
is what it was and to be like product focused
and that completely changed how we thought about what to
say yes too. I just say no to how to
scale and grow. And I think on the resilient part,
we would have considered ourselves like very strong individuals who
(15:15):
like had had some life experience. But when I look back, boy,
we had no idea what was in store for us
personally or professionally. And I think that muscle, it is
a muscle, and we literally built it over time. And
so when you look back, we've been through let's just
call it three recessions, whether they've been formally acknowledged as
recessions or not. A pandemic personal highs and lows. And
(15:39):
there's two moments I'll just like never forget. And they
seemed like blips, but at the moment, like they felt
so big. It was one of our earliest rounds of funding.
We're like, we got this, and it was an investor
that we thought had committed verbally, but I don't think
we like really understood what that meant. And we were
still learning how to fundraise. And we had the small
office and our team sitting outside and we had this
(16:01):
like little kitchen and that's the only place that we
could take a private call. And so we went into
this little kitchen and it happened to be lunchtime. We
cleared everybody out and we had this call at the
investor and the investor was like, we're not going to
participate in this round. And I remember it was like
a movie, like I like physically like slid down the
refrigerator door to the floor, and we had our team
(16:23):
outside who were all trying to come in to get
their lunch from the fridge. We were like, not now,
not now. And I just remember Danielle and I sitting
on the floor with our laptops in this kitchen staring
at each other and being like, what are we going
to do? And we closed the round again. This was
such a blip in the story of the skim and
(16:45):
it wasn't even for a lot of money when you
look at what we raised, but that felt like a
punch in the gut where I was like, how do
we keep doing this? And it was such a hard
moment to like have a disappointing work day where you
just kind of want to cry, I tell your friend
or whomever, and then also have to go out of
the kitchen and then be in front of the team
(17:06):
and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and not
let them know. And I think those moments are the
ones that make you strong. They're the ones where you
learn to have a game face. They're the ones where
you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem
which we solved and it was fine. And also learn
what kind of partners you want around the table with you.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Thank you for taking us back to that moment.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I think rejection is part of so many people's realities,
whether you're a founder or whatever role you have in
your career. Did that rejection fuel your drive to go
and close that round? Did you actually exceed what you
thought you would get because now you had this new
found gumption.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, And actually it fueled us in a surprising way
because we went to a mutual friend of this investor
and we were like, can you believe they did this
to us? And that mutual friend called the investor and
was like, what's up? And they had their own reasons
why they didn't want to invest, but they said that
we had cried and we did not cry. I forgot
(18:12):
about that. I didn't know where you were going with this.
We did not cry. I cried about it when I
got off the phone, but not to the person on
the phone. And same thing with Danielle, and that pissed
us off so much that we were like a few
like we didn't cry, Like there's no crying, and basic, yeah,
there is but to be clear, like we were businesswomen,
(18:33):
we held our own and like you know, it would
have been fine if we did, but we didn't, and
that really pissed us off. And that was like the
fuel that we were like, we will show you and
you were going to regret this, and they did.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It speaks to such a huge problem right of women,
especially women who are in rolls of high ambition founding companies,
that you get sort of characterized, you get misunderstood, you
get discriminated against. How often was that part of your
journey all the time?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Time? Still? Yeah, still even now when you have climbed
the hill.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, all the time, even where we are today, all
the time.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And I think part of it is I can spot it,
whereas maybe five years ago, ten years ago, I'd be like, oh,
that's just because I'm young, or that's because I haven't
gotten to this part of my business yet.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But I think now, you know, we're still young, but like.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
We've been doing this a long time, those things are
not the reason why. And I also think because we
are very lucky to have grown up in this kind
of entrepreneur founder community with also other women who have
gone through it, and so there are themes, but I
also think what I dislike about it is it's real.
(19:52):
It is part of this, and it's also something that
I would say, you got to pick your battles and
figure out how much you're going to let it get
to you.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And I do think just to add like one of
the positives of leadership in COVID as, I think it
forced I don't mean to really use masks in a
flippant way in this case, but it forced a leadership
mass to come down for everybody, and I think that
was actually a very positive thing. Where the first time
actually that I think either of us ever got emotional
(20:25):
in front of our team was during COVID Yeah, and
I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
can't believe I just started just basically cried in front
of our team. And then I think that that vulnerability
became a strength in leadership that I don't think either
of us ever would have embraced before. And we saw
that in our male peers and mentors and our female
peers and mentors, and so I want to clarify that
(20:48):
having vulnerability or emotion is not the thing that annoys us.
I think that can be a strength, and I think
that can be very honest, and we've had those moments.
I think it is the BS around two younger female.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Founders a judgment.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, And I think we would have had very different
experiences had we been solo founders, And we also have
very unique experiences because there were two of us.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You brought up COVID, and I think what really rose
to the surface will it was unmasked during COVID, was
how much caregiving was a huge part of everyone's lives,
whether it's because you have children, you have parents who
are taking care of you have your own mental health
that you're caring And this actually became a huge platform
for the two of you as leaders, and I would
love for you to share your insights as well as
(21:36):
how you've taken action since COVID to provide more of
an inclusive environment and a supportive environment for your caregivers
at work and not just at the SKIM but at
many companies.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So we started something very organically called show Us Your Leave.
This was under the Biden administration. Congress did not pass
family leave in the way that everyone had hoped for
caregivers basically, and Danielle and I were like literally texting
about it and we're texting about it when Danielle's child
care ended for the day and one of her kids
(22:07):
was having a tantrum on the floor and we were
trying to work, and it was like, this is literally
the problem, and we posted about it and we just
made up like a hashtag. We said show us your leave,
what did your leave look like? And I can't even
explain to you how many messages we got and how
quickly people started posting with their own versions of their
(22:29):
stories with that hashtat I mean crazy stories like a
nick you nurse who had to go back to work
ten days after giving birth and her own child was
in the nicku and like she had to go then
take care of other children, like I mean, made no sense.
We had one woman who literally sent us photos of
her hooked up to the contraction monitor with the laptop
(22:52):
on the table next to her because she had to
clock in till midnight to be able to qualify for leave.
You were like, I can't even believe this is our
country and this is not a part is an issue.
This is a failure systemically across our country. And it
turned into an advocacy movement where we had over seven
hundred companies for the first time publicly and transparently share
(23:16):
what their leave policies were, and we created a template
for our audience to share that data, and in many
cases those policies were changed. That then evolved into show
us her childcare, which was, Okay, you've had a family leave,
how do you go back to work if that's what
you're choosing to do, or how do you kind of function?
What does childcare look like for you? We all know
(23:37):
that the cost of that is not sustainable, and in particular,
women are not getting help. And we did that at
the same time very similarly to a survey that we
ran called the State of Women, and that was really
an economic report of how is she doing? This is
like post pandemic, how are we? And you know, like
we are this audience. We weren't expecting the results to
(23:59):
be like, I'm doing great, but it was so much
worse than we thought it was going to be. Eighty
three percent of our audience said they identify as a
chief warry officer. And that is such a mental health problem.
And again part of what we're so excited about with
our new partners every day health is like so much
(24:21):
of the work that they do is actually addressing a
lot of her mental health concerns with amazing partnerships that's
going to allow us to serve her better. But I
think these sort of advocacy moments have been a very
organic evolution to our brand that have awoken our audience
(24:43):
in a way with like not just giving them that
they know what they're frustrated by, but actually giving them
the tools to talk about it or in some cases
actually create change. And we've since then a lot of
further brand campaigns that have looked at their health in
similar ways and really just about mobilizing this audience. And
I think that a lot of that came to fruition
(25:04):
because of the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So tell me about how you've chosen your brand expansions.
You started out covering the news primarily, but then got
into other areas.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So taking myself back in time to COVID, it's actually
still now a hard thing to do, but we started
to really lean in again to building franchises and extending
the brand based off of what we as people were
worried about and were interested in, and that meant one
(25:37):
as our commerce business exploded. That was when we started
it and it was like, we're all doing it, we
may as well make it like a effective fun and
I guess we talk about being time well spent. And
we started our skim shopping franchise during that because we
were all spending money online, so let's make sure it's
(25:59):
going to small businesses. Carly and I kicked off something
around women of colors, businesses and small businesses on our
Instagram and that was something that went into our skin
shopping franchise and just really started thinking about this is
actually how we're spending a lot of time since we're
trapped at home, so how can we make it time
and money well spent? And then that started going into
(26:22):
the evolution of our skin Money franchise, which to that
point we had been building out a very i would
say complicated app and product experience and we had rate
us money for it and we were about to launch it,
and the pandemic hits and we see that we have
so many questions around filing for unemployment. What should I
(26:45):
do in a recession? And again, as a generation, we
had actually gone through this when we were graduating college
starting to try to move up in the workforce or
get a job. And I think Because of that, we
were primed to be like, this is not going to
be fun. We need to figure out what we're going
to do because there's a high likelihood that we're going
(27:07):
to get laid off. And that started us on a
very big business decision with our board's approval, and they
really had our back here, which was to sunset the
product that we've been working on to really think about
we need to create community and we need to really
get ahead of the questions that are going to come up.
(27:31):
And so we started launching skim Money as a virtual
events series and then it built out from there, and
the idea around skim well really started around caring for ourselves.
And there was so much misinformation out there and so
much just fear, as we all had rightfully, so we
(27:53):
didn't know what was going to happen. So it was
less about trying to keep up with what was going
on in medical news and much more about how do
you actually take care of yourself because you can't control
what's going on out there, so how do you create
some sort of wellness practice? And that really became those
eighteen months when we really started to define and move
(28:17):
forward these three big parts of our business that have
grown significantly since then.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
What will you be advocating for women in your audience
going forward? Do you think like what has yet to
be really addressed or is a new topic that you
think is surfacing.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, we've talked about caregiving, but it's really been in
the context of caring for kids mostly, And when we
decided to talk about caregiving, we really thought a lot
about aging parents. And what I think is different than
even when we started to think about the topic and
(28:57):
the subject is all of this this is happening at
the same time, and there are so many resources for
how you should plan try to regulate yourself. For like
the idea of parenting. It is a really flooded space,
and yet there are still really big needs in that
(29:18):
and there is a need for community, There are a
need for tools, there is a need for more financial support.
But then when you think about caregiving on the other end,
for parents or for whatever kind of older dependence you're
thinking about, there's still a stigma attached to it because
to me, it's kind of like you think about retirement
(29:39):
communities but not necessarily all of the other things, and
like I'm knocking on wood, but like right now, that
is not on my mind, But there are so many
other parts of this that should be on my mind,
including how do you think about the trade offs? There's
been a meme floating around and maybe it's just like
this is the type of content that I get, But
(30:01):
it was like something about your kids being mad when
you have to move in with them because you saved
for their college and not your retirement. Yeah, that's a
lot of people that is exactly what we're being faced
with now. But what that should say is your kids
being mad because you have to move in with them
because you paid for your boomer parents' situation. We love
(30:24):
our boomers, we love our parents, but that generation did
not make such great financial decisions, and we are now
at a place where we need to think about how
do we take care of them, how do we take
care of ourselves, and how do we take care of kids?
And I have no clue as an individual how to
do that. So how can people who are not having
(30:44):
the luxury of being able to sit here and peace
through these problems and create content and talk to experts
about that? How are they thinking through it? And it's
the easiest thing to bury your head in the sand
about because no one wants to take that on.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Well, because what are we really talking about. We're talking
about the end of life too, you know, and that
is such a hard thing to face. We're talking about money,
which we've already discussed is super taboo. And then you're
talking about millennial women, women largely at the forefront of caregiving.
So we've already got a lot on our plate. We've
been through three recessions. Oh, we're the ones who are
supposed to shoulder all this financial and emotional stress. Yeah,
(31:25):
it's it's a lot, and I agree with you. I
think this is a huge opportunity to uplift, educate, empower
women and families around this. Thank you for bringing that
to our attention. All right, let's talk about the future
a little bit. Your hope streams what's on your vision
board right now, Danielle Carly, mostly for your audience.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I think for our audience. I keep replaying that stat
in my head of like the chief Warrior Officer that
I referenced. I think we are spending a lot of
time actually talking about with Danielle was just saying, which
is we're the Sandwich generation, and the idea of like
how do we help her prep How does the SKIM
(32:05):
help her prepare for the stuff that you don't want
to deal with in some cases don't even know that
you're going to have to deal with. And that is
everything from like do you have the password to get
into your parents iPhone or any phone? Do you have
the power of attorney docs filled? Have you had a
tough conversation with them about choices that they want or
(32:27):
options that they have, or their financial situation? And these
aren't like pretty topics, And I think what the SKIM
is always done, you know, And I look back to
how we started. We started it was like the height
of the Syrian Civil War, and I remember people were like,
people are not going to want to read this, it's
very depressing. We're like, it is very depressing and they
(32:47):
need to And the SKIM, you know, it did take off.
And it's because we made that information palpable, we made
it easier to understand. And I think our goal would
be to help this audience navigate this next phase of
her life and her loved ones lives. And we are
just really obsessed about where she is at this life
(33:08):
stage moment, and it is how does she have the
life that she wants and deal with the responsibilities that
are really sitting on her shoulders and nobody is there
to help her.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
She can do hard things, as they say, yeah, yes
she can.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
If you were starting the skim today, would you do
anything differently?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh that's a good Oh my gosh, yes, everything really well.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean in the fact that we had thirteen years
to practice, so you know where it ends up, like,
I think I would do everything differently, meaning that if
I had known where.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
We were going, I would have been a lot less
stressed out.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
But I think in some ways, no, I wouldn't do
anything differently because the greatest gift that we had in
this was the mistakes, the failures, the learnings, and above all,
the experience of getting to build something that has meant
something not only to us and our team, but millions
and millions of women. And all of the things we
(34:04):
did wrong was part of the process.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, the worry part that seems to be a theme here,
you know, facing it, trying to avoid it. And lastly,
we ask this of all of our guests, what does
leading by example mean to you?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Don't ask your team to do something that you wouldn't
do or that you haven't done yourself. It's I think
a very founder position. Like we've literally built desks, taken
off the trash, we have made social assets, we have
done mass email blasts flying, yeah, all of it. We've
(34:40):
gone up to random people on the street and said,
do you know what the skim is?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Can I tell you about it? Which sounds so creepy.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Now, So when you think about these things that you
would ask someone to do, I think you're more able
to paint a picture of why, not that you should
always have to paint that picture, but you actually a
real why behind why you're asking someone to do something.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, I think my answer comes off of that, which
is there's this weird thing that I think has to
happen in leadership where for a company to get something
off the ground, you kind of have to flex above
your weight class. You have to believe and see the
bigger version of what you're creating and like own it
and be and feel bigger than maybe you are at
(35:25):
that moment. And at the same time, you need to
show the humility with your team, and you need to
know how to do almost every job that you're going
to end up hiring somebody for or at least why
you're hiring them because you can't, like, I'm not going
to be the one to build you an Excel model.
I know why we hired our finance team, but I
(35:45):
think those skills are so important, and I think we
obviously certainly did that in the beginning. And I do
think when I look back COVID and kind of the
humbling of COVID for everybody brought that back to life.
And again when I look at sort of like what
are the positives to take away from like a really
hard time in leadership? That is one.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Dream big, but keep it real.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yes, that is much more sistinctuis.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
This has been so good. Thank you so much for
sitting with us, Danielle and Carly. Congratulations on this.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
And this is in some ways the beginning of a
new future. You know, it's not the end, it's the beginning.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
We are very excited and we feel very grateful to
have the phenomenal partners at everyday health group that we do.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
All right, Ryan, that was Carly and Danielle. What'd you
think I've known them for years. It's always a pleasure
to sit down with those two women. They are always
so honest, so transparent, I relate a lot to their story,
not in the sense that I built this incredible media empire,
but that I started in news.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I had friends that I sat next to you in
the newsroom.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
We didn't have the conversations my friends and I in
the newsroom, like let's start a media empire one day,
but they did. And you know one thing they didn't
talk about, which I know about them, is how they
were roommates and they took out credit card debt to
start the skim And so to fast forward to today
to see how far they've come, the wins, the losses,
the setbacks, was a really nice moment for all of us.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Yeah, they were incredible just to hear from founders who
are so incredibly grounded. I was really impressed with given
their you know, stratospheric trajectory of starting from such humble
beginnings to the company they now are in the company
they now keep. It was just really refreshing to hear
how they still talk about things like I loved their
(37:39):
wrap up when it came to not being afraid to
do the little things the day to day of running
a company, whether it's taking out the trash or building desks,
that really was nice to hear from someone in their position.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yes, and growing up with their audience. They are very
dedicated to their audience. They have been very intentional from
day one to service her and to learn as much
about her, get ahead of her questions, to provide the
products and the content that they know she needs, even
(38:13):
if she doesn't want to learn it. I love what
they were like, it's important the Civil War and Syria.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
It's important. It's depressing, but you need to learn it.
So we're going to give it to you.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
We're going to feed your vegetables, but it's going to
taste like fruit loops.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
And I love how clear that voice is because I
think that's a big testament to their success. And something
I really took away from this conversation was the fact
that they had such a clear picture of their voice
and how they wanted to speak to their audience from
the get go and communicating with that authenticity and making
a real connection with their audience is something that they've
maintained from twelve thirteen years ago to today, and I
(38:48):
think it's a big sign of their success. And like
I said, something that I really took away from the
conversation today is just that authenticity of voice.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, both as leaders and as content creators, for sure, And.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
I especially appreciated even things like the flexibility with grammar
and the idea that they could speak directly to their
audience in a way that their audiences used to being
spoken to in their own homes and their own workplaces.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Which was a delineation at the time.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
You know, people weren't writing emails in the way that
they were in such a conversational tone and wait a minute,
no exclamation points. You know, they were very specific about
their tone and their style, and they stuck with it.
And I also was a little surprised a little I
don't know why I was when they were describing the aggressions,
let's just say, and the characterizations, the false characterizations as
(39:36):
women founders, that they're still dealing with this bs sometimes
and they've gotten maybe quote unquote better at navigating it
and so far as choosing their battles, but I was
disheartened to hear that that is still part of what
they have to deal with, hopefully not day to day,
but it still shows up even for a woman who
climbs the top of the hill as a founder. I mean,
(39:57):
really like an exit is what only so many can
hope for, and yet here they still are.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
And that's why I'm so glad we can have conversations
like this on this show, is that it's good for
our audience and their audience to hear that even at
the pinnacle, at the peak, they're still dealing with the
same things that people are dealing within their daily lives.
And that speaks also to just their transparency and authenticity.
And it's such a shame that we still have to
have these conversations. That's so frustrating, but I think it's
(40:27):
really important that we do have these conversations so that
we can highlight that that's still happening and how they've
dealt with it.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
And how they've maintained their standards and they've continued to
be successful in spite of all of that. So yeah,
thank you for their transparency around it. That was really
an important thing.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Such a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Well, listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much
as we did. If you like what you're hearing, please
follow and subscribes you don't miss out on any new episodes,
And as always, we want to hear your thoughts to
make this the best show possible.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Ease leave us a review.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
In the meantime, you can find me at Farnoosh Charabi
on Instagram and I'm always on the So Money podcast.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our
executive producer is Matt Stillo and our supervising producer is
Nikiah Swinton.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
This podcast was edited by Sierra Spreen.
Host
Farnoosh Torabi
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