Legally Brunette: The Stephen Patterson Interview

At just 19 years old, Stephen Patterson was given a life sentence in prison for a crime he did not commit. When an eye-witness wrongfully placed Stephen at the scene of a murder, his life changed forever.
Today, Emily and Shane are sitting down with Stephen to discuss his 18 years in prison, his involvement with The Innocence Center and life after a wrongful conviction.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunettes. I
will be your host, Emily Simpson and.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Shane Did you forget your name? What happened there? I
forgot you were talking about me?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh yeah, you all right? I Normally I love that
we do this podcast and it's always legally based and
we never talked about housewives. But today we're just gonna
have to break that rule a little bit because we're
gonna have to talk about Wendy and Edwardespo. So, Wendy
is a star on the Real Housewives of Potomac along

(00:34):
with her husband Eddie, and the two of them are
facing multiple criminal charges in Carroll County, Maryland, which are
tied to one investigators allege was a staged burglary and
false insurance claims. Wendy was indicted on seven counts of
insurance fraud, eight counts of conspiracy to commit insurance fraud,

(00:55):
and one count of false statement to a police officer.
Edward was indicted on nine counts of insurance fraud, eight
counts of conspiracy to commit insurance fraud, and one count
of false statement to a police officer. According to county officials,
the couple was taken into custody on Thursday, October ninth,
following a grand jury indictment. Now, we were filming the

(01:17):
reunion on Thursday October ninth, So I like to put
myself in that position where I'm like sitting on a couch, probably.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yelling at someone or getting yelled at.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Or getting yelled at one or the other, and Wendy
and her husband were taken into custody. You know, my
question is when I think about timelines, I filmed wife Swap,
and we know Wendy film Wive Swap as well. I
filmed it back in May, which means Wendy probably filmed
it in like the April May probably April is timeframe.
And I'm wondering if that at that time, if she

(01:46):
was aware that they were investigating.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Based on the little I read, it's like they were
gathering all this evidence behind the scenes without their knowledge,
searching for the the reported jewelry. Didn't they returned some
jewelry photos of jewel them wearing the jewelry after the fact.
They probably did their homework without disrupting and talking to
them to alert them so they could hide evidence.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Right, so when they arrested them on October ninth, I
believe did they search their home at the same time.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I would imagine so, So that.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Means that this report that they found like fifteen items
that were allegedly written as far as stolen items, but
they found them in the home means that they just
found them when they probably are. And there's when you
do it.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
When you do an arrest, you do a sweep anyway
of the nearby areas. But if you have a warrant
to arrest them in the house, you're probably going to
have a warrant for the gathering of or searching of
evidence as well.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
So authorities say the case stems from an April twenty
twenty four incident at the Espho's home, where they reported
that they had been burglarized while they were vacationing in Jamaica.
Investigators now claim the evidence didn't match that story, noting
that there was no force entry and no alarm activity.
I did read that they have an ADT alarm on
their home, but.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
There was no Oh, so they didn't even think to
trigger or anything.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, I don't know, you know, that's the question is.
And again, this is all alleged, because you know, everyone's
in a cent until proven guilty.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
However it appears to be guilty, it does.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
It appeared to be guilty. But do you think this
was something that they concocted prior to going on vacation
and like thought out and planned, or do you think
it's something where you come home and you think, hmm,
we could have been burglarized while we were gone, we weren't.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I think they got ideas from all the celebrities getting
robbed while they're out of town or burglarized while they're
out of town, so they just thought, oh, we can
do the same thing and it'll look legit like we
just be like, oh, we're out of town, and people
knew because the social media, and we're famous and have
a lot of money, and they came and took everything
even though they didn't so.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Email records obtained by deputies showed that on April twelfth,
twenty twenty four, Eddie emailed the list of reportedly stolen
items to Windy. Now here's my question. I don't know
how the investigators accessed this email.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I don't know Mighty arrested them. Maybe they gathered but.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
That would have been this was on October ninth. I mean,
we're just this article came out like two days later,
so I don't know. I'm saying they had to have
I feel like they had to have been aware that
they were being investigated because they had to have police
had to have confiscated their computers to be able to
access an email. I'm just trying to think of timeline,

(04:28):
like when she was aware that they were being investigated,
And I'm still trying to figure.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Out at least knocked on her door if it was.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Prior to filming WIFE'SWAP.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
But that's the way crooks are. They don't. They don't
con artists, they don't. All I'm saying is it's not
paranoid like you and me of getting arrested. They think
they'll they're Scott freed. Look at Jenshaw wasn't the same way.
She's still doing it. She claimed innocence all the way
up until the court steps, and she had she knew
she was screwed.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
So email records obtained by deputies showed that on April twelve,
twenty twenty four, at He emailed the list of reportedly
stolen items to Wendy. The email as if there were
quote additional high value items that we could add to
this inventory listening like Chanelle's shoes, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Was the subject headlinely email conspiracy to commit fraud.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Like GotY?

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Could they have been more obvious? I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Get the total to exceed four hundred and twenty three
thousand dollars, which is our policy maximum. So it's like,
what other items can we add to this list so
that we can get the maximum amount back.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right at the.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Time of their arrest, the search and seizure warrant was
executed for Wendy and Eddie's home. Deputies found and we
just talked about this. At least fifteen items that appear
to be the same ones they claim to be stolen
during the alleged burglary. Look, I know Wendy is very intelligent.
She's the one with the four degrees. She always talks
about how educated she is and she has all these degrees.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, no one's saying you're dumb when you're coming in crimes.
This is poor choices.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, I would say, if you're going to list items
that were stolen and you're going to give them, at
least get rid of the items I mean, I know
some were returned, but apparently there's fifteen items that are
on the list that are still inside the home.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Academically she's smart, yes, Criminally she's stupid.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, there you go. The investigation also found that the
Oseppos were quote burdened by substantial debt. You know, I
don't know if that was the catalyst, that the instigating
factor where they had to debt.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
From what you know, what people I shouldn't have someone
in their position shouldn't have debt to the point where
they have to commit crimes.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well yeah, I mean, if you're if you have to
commit crimes to pay off your debt, then you probably
should have worked on the debt. But I think a
lot of people, a lot of people, I'm just making
a generalized statement, probably.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Mostly live without outside their means, live.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Outside their means, and are trying to to look bigger
than they are and badder than they are, and more
wealthy than they are. And you know, Instagram, social media
perpetuates that, you know, everybody wants to post their lavish
lifestyle and their vacations and their bags and their jewelry.
And then at the end of the day, you know,

(07:03):
it's a lot of It's smoke and mirrors. Wendy and
Edward were released on Friday, October tenth, after posting a
fifty thousand dollars bail that was for each. An addition,
Bravo has paused the series premiere of The Wife Swap.
And we talked about this because Wendy's episode was supposed
to be the first one, so it was slated to
appear as the first episode, which would be October fourteenth.

(07:24):
They're pushing it back a week, so the season premiere
of Wife Swap is now going to be next week,
and it's going to be Angie's episode.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
The questions for the other family, Ah, oh yeah, it's
can be on next week, friends and family, let's all
watch it now.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's like nope, yeah, but here's the question it talks about,
like it's postponed or they're pushing it back, but the
question is are they going to er it at all?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
They're not going to air it, you don't think so. No,
they'll make a decision later.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
A rep for Wendy told TMZ Doctor Wendy a Cephoe
and her husband Edward are back home safely with their
family and in good spirits. They are grateful for the
outpouring of cern and support from friends, fans, and colleagues.
They o Cephos, alongside their legal team, look forward to
their day in court. At this time, they respectfully asked
for privacy as they focus on their family and the
legal process ahead. You know, the other thing is said

(08:12):
they have three children, like three young children, you know,
and don't I don't know what's going to happen. I
assume they'll take I would assume they'll take some kind
of plea deal.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
What do you think I would think sot a lot
of evidence.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
There's a lot of evidence again disputable, right.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
But you know, they probably won't serve time.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I don't think so either. I think they'll take a
please have.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
More debt, commit more crimes to get out of the
debt for their lawyers.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Wendy Aseepho has been on Real Housewives of Potomac since
season five. She was a college professor of education teaching
at John Hopkins University before resigning in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
See a lot of career and money earning opportunities.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, and she was a contributor to the Hill and MSNBC.
She has degrees from Temple University in John Hopkins and
a PhD in Public Affairs and Community development from Rutgers.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Again, we'll find how many seasons was she on a show.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think she's been on since twenty twenty, so I
think she's been on Potomac five seasons, maybe four or five?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Wow? Yeah, lots of money, earning opportunities and platforms and
sucks for them.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well you have to.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
I don't can make crimes.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, I don't either.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I don't want to be on anyone else's podcast.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
No, you know, oh I would. That was another thing
I did see an interview that just resurfaced because she
had done an interview a podcast with someone I don't
remember who it was, and he was interviewing her and
he had asked about the burglary and he said, oh,
you know, I read or heard that your home got burglarized.
I think it was right before you guys started filming.

(09:40):
Was that the timeline and her answer listen? Her answer
probably wouldn't have caused any sublition to it originally, but
now that we know what, we know what was a response,
it's a resurface. So people are now you know, you know,
analyzing it.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, Yeah, reading it differently.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, you know, when I watched it, it was interesting
because he was like, that was something about the timeline,
like it happened right before you started filming. And she
was like, hmm, I think so.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
And I was like, I have to check my emails.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Oh yeah, let me check my emails. But I was
thinking to myself, if our home got burglarized, like for real,
got burglarized, day was exactly what day it was, I
would know the timeframe. And you know, my other question
or thought is, when you're on a reality show, your
life is out into in the public. It is magnified.

(10:26):
People are constantly digging into your past. There's Reddit threads,
they're talking about you constantly. I make sure, I mean
not that we've ever done anything. I mean, like I'm
overly cautious.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Wasn't there some housewife that like went crazy at like
a Quizno's or something and it was getting mad at.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Her and.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
That was Jen Aiden from New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, dumb exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
So I'm saying you're you're under scrutiny.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Like, well, first of all, that that behavior was inappropriate
regardless of who she was. I'm not talking about today.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
I'm not stuck on the quiz nos. No, I'm back
to Wendy. I'm talking about how when you're on a
reality show and your life is under such scrutiny and
then you're going to commit, allegedly commit insurance fraud. Also,
there was another thing I read that I think that
and I don't know a lot about insurance, but apparently
they filed the the insurance claim with multiple insurance companies.

(11:27):
So I don't know if you're allowed to do that,
but it seems almost.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It depends on the policy whether they'll right.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
But I don't know if that's double dipping or tripled.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Well, they were maximizing it clearly right. They're like, we're
going to commit a crime, Let's go all the way,
Let's go all out.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Stephan Patterson was wrongfully convicted of a gang shooting and
murdering of south central LA in two thousand and seven.
Despite having an alibi and two very plausible third suspects,
Stephan was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. So
on April fifteenth of two thousand and five, around five pm,
a group of about six Hispanic men belonging to that

(12:11):
it's called an F thirteen gang, including year Oliva and
Juan Sedana, were standing in front of an apartment complex
on sixty seventh Street and Parmley Street in Los Angeles.
During this time, Colleen and Riquez stood on the front
porch of her house while her mother Esther Gonzalez, was
watering their grass. Enrique saw a black man approach the

(12:32):
corner where six men were standing. The F thirteen members
shouted racial slurs and throughout gang signs toward the man.
The man also throughout gang signs in return, then turned
and walked down sixty sixth Street. About fifteen to twenty
minutes later, the same man returned with another individual. Enriquez
and Gonzalez remember this is the mother and daughter that

(12:53):
are outside their home, feared what might happen next, so
they went inside their home. Enriquez watched them man through
the front window of her home, while Gonzalez looked out
of a bedroom window, and Enrique saw a man that
she later identified as Patterson standing on Parmelay Street. Allegedly,
Patterson pulled out a handgun from the back of his
jacket and started shooting. His accomplice stood on the sidewalk

(13:16):
and had a handgun as well, and Rique heard the
shooters fire about five shots. After the two men finished shooting,
they ran off towards sixty seventh Street. Enrique saw Yer
Oliva on the ground and asked Gozalez that was the
mom to call nine one one. Yer Oliva died of
one gunshot wound to his face, entering at the right
lower lip. Now this is the identification, so Enrique's who

(13:41):
was a witness to all this, told Detective Mitch Robinson
she recognized one of the shooters but did not know
his name. She eventually identified Patterson. Later, it was determined
she was not able to see the events from her location,
and I believe she identified Stefan from photo lineup. However,
Utterson was actually on the phone in his house when

(14:02):
the shooting happened. He hung up the phone and went
to his porch when he heard the gun shots. Numerous
witnesses spotted Patterson standing on his porch shortly after hearing
the gunshots. The same witnesses watched as the two true
perpetrators ran past Patterson's house and continued to sixty seventh
in Compton Avenue. Stephen Patterson was a witness, just as

(14:23):
everyone else on the street. Was, and I know that
his neighbor was standing at his house across the street
saw him standing, and I believe they even exchanged words.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Or gestures, like they both shrugged and kind of like
what was that exactly?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
So there are witnesses that can place him standing on
his porch when the gunshots went off. On March twenty
second of two thousand and six, Patterson was arrested and
subsequently charged with one count of murder with enhancements for
personal use of a firearm, discharge of a firearm, and
discharge of a firearm causing great bodily injury. On August ninth,

(14:59):
tw the jury found Patterson guilty of first degree murder
and found true all of Patterson's alleged enhancements. On July
seventeenth of two thousand and eight, Stephan Patterson was sentenced
to fifty years to life in state prison. He was
convicted of just nineteen years old and served a total
of eighteen years in prison. He maintained his innocence the

(15:19):
entire time.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
And I think it's I always find important, Like when
he was arrested, he had to remain in jail throughout
his trial. I believe too, so he never had freedom
from the moment he was accused.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Now, the good thing about this case, if there is
a good thing, he did spend a lot of time
in prison. But however, the Edison Center became involved in
his case and discovered the actual identity of the two
true perpetrators. They presented this information to the Los Angeles
District Attorney's Conviction Integrity Unit, and on March eleventh of
twenty twenty four, the Edison Center and the Los Angeles

(15:53):
District Attorney filed a joint petition for rid of habeas
corpus and a joint motion for a finding of factual innocence.
Judge William C. Ryan exonerated Stephan Patterson and declared him
factually innocent, which.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Is different than now there's doubt, right, that's saying it
was not you, it was someone else, right.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
And you know this is also a flaw with eyewitness identification,
because there was a woman who saw what happened, she
saw it from inside her home. She identified him. However,
there were lots of other identifications. He didn't really fit
the ID. But again, you have I don't know what
it is beure.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, there was also a lack of identification like people
that were eyewitnesses didn't want to speak up right, unfortunately,
at the expense of him serving time in jail.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right, now that you guys have some background information
on Stephan's case, we're so excited to have Stephan with
us for an in person interview. We've talked before. I've
met with Stephan many, many times. We've had many conversations,
and I'd like to say, first of all, I love
how open that you always are to discussing what you've
been through you are now and being so open and

(17:02):
honest about it. And also, I think the second thing
that I always think about when I think about you
is how just what a ray of light you are
every time I'm around you. You have such a positive attitude.
You're always so happy and jovial and kind, and considering
what you've been through, I mean, the normal person probably
wouldn't be able to wake up every day and have

(17:24):
a smile on their face and be happy about life.
But every time I see you, you are so happy,
and I think that's such a testament to like your
soul and who you are. So beautiful, So thank you
for being here. We appreciate it. Now. What year was it?
When the Innocent Center took up your.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Case, it was like two thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, so that was just so you were in prison
for about four years when they and then you were
released I believe back in twenty twenty four, So this
is recent, so you haven't been out for very.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Long, like maybe seventeen months.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Seventeen months now, okay, Now, when you were in prison
and you absolutely had nothing to do with this, tell me,
how how do you get through a day, just just
a day? How do you get through a day? How
do you wake up every morning? Just getting through?

Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think I just breathe, Yeah, you know, I think
that's like a I'm trying to teach my little steps
now when he gets a little angry to breathe, you know,
because it's it was gut wrenching every day to hear
the sound of the doors closing and locking, like all
of it was just it was harsh, and the living

(18:37):
situation was harsh. So to get up every day was
very difficult. But I just I got up. I would
take a deep breath, head up, chest out, and just
I knew I was innocent. So it was like it
was like one of those things and like fight or
flight mode where I knew I had to survive it,
and I knew like being down and the dumps wasn't
going to do it for me, the person that I am.

(18:58):
So I learned how to cut hair and just do
little things to keep myself busy.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh that's interesting. So was that something they offered you,
like a course to be able to learn how to
cut here?

Speaker 3 (19:08):
I just I wasn't comfortable, you know, with anyone cutting
my hair withol and stuff like that, right, So I
learned how to do my own and then I got
pretty good at it where people would see me and
ask me to do theirs, and before I knew it,
it was something that I was doing for people, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, And yeah, that's interesting. And I know, so you
were in prison for twenty years? How did you get
through That's such a long amount of time to wake
up every day.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
How old were you when you began your sentencing?

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I was seventeen when it started. I was nineteen when
they sentenced.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Me, okay, And for those two years were you also
locked up?

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Was bail available?

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Bell was available? But it was so yes, okay, that
was almost impossible.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
And then what facility were you.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Kept at the in the beginning, I was at Loss Padrinos,
and then they ended up sending me to them all
Santa's County jail and I was there for almost two
and a half years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
You know, we talk a lot about false confessions, which
isn't your case, but also eyewitness testimony, which was what
convicted you. And I read a lot about your case,
and there were several eyewitnesses, and I would say all
the eyewitness reports, they all reported that there were two shooters.
They were all pretty consistent as to what they had
on what their appearance was. I do know that there

(20:28):
was just one witness that made a reference to possibly
seeing one of the shooters at your house, right, That
was where the connection was made, and then the police
went to your house. Is that correct? But your alibi
was as far as what I could read, And maybe
you can help with this out. You were at home,

(20:48):
and was your dad home with you or your grandfather
your grandfather, right, and you heard a shooting in your neighborhood, correct,
And then you did what any normal person would do.
You walked out onto your porch because there were cops
and there were things going on, correct, And you walked
out and you were like, what's going on? And then
wasn't there a neighbor right across the street from you
that also walked out at the same time, and you
were conversing right across the street, like what's going on?

(21:10):
Do you know? So your neighbors saw you, Yes, standing
on your porch outside in your neighborhood, not near the crimes,
not near the crime scene, just wanting to know what's
going on in your neighborhood. And then when did the
police come to what did did they come to question you?
What was after that?

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Never? They never came to question me. I think it
was about a year later after this happened. Because in
my neighborhood is family oriented. It is a red line area.
Things do happen. They do have, you know, gangs and
stuff over there, but it was a family oriented nothing
like that had happened over there in the last thirty years.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
What's why you came outside right right.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
And it was more so coming outside was because I
seen the neighbors come outside. It was such a shock
and it was so loud you could just tell, so
that we felt like it was on our block. So
we came out to see what was going on. But
also just in case anyone needed any help, because that's
the way we were raised around there, you know, we
helped each other. And so came outside. There was nothing

(22:15):
going on, and then I noticed that a year later
they pulled me over and I noticed that they were
like following me, and then they pulled me over and
said I had a warrant for a ticket, like because
at the time I was driving, and they took me
for this ticket. And the next thing i know, I'm

(22:38):
being told that I'm facing murder charges. And this was
a whole year later. They never came and at the
time I had a drivers permit, so they knew where
I stayed. They never came to question me. They never
came to see if there was anything that I could
give them to show my innocence or anything. They just
always kind of put it off on me. And then

(23:01):
throughout the years of me fighting my case, I started
learning different things about my case that I didn't even
know because I'm not involved, you don't really know. And
then I'm seeing what they're putting together and I'm like,
I don't know this. I wasn't there this and that.
So it was just an uphill battle. And then for
whatever reason, I believe they just needed someone to blame.

(23:22):
Even the girl who testified against me to say that
I was the shooter. I don't even believe that she
really meant that. I don't think that she And maybe
it's just me being a person who's loving. I don't
even think that she knew the seriousness of what was
going on.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Now, was she the one that she was the daughter
that was with their mother and then they gave statements?
And was she the one that identified you from like
a six pack or something like a photo line up?

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You know, and I'm not sure of the timeline of
when she did that, but maybe it was one of
those things where she identified you in a photo lineup
and then she just felt compelled to stick to it
instead of saying, you know, maybe I could possibly be wrong.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, but there were so many underlining things that happened
in that, like she was collhearsed a little bit. I
think they wanted I think the family wanted justice, and
rightfully so, and I think that they were looking for
someone to blame. And I think that I just being
young African American male, only black family on that street,

(24:25):
perpetrators ran down that street.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I just think it was your name put in the
How did they even know of you did the day
of the crime. Did they interview you so they had
your name on record? Is or someone just submit your name?
And then a year later they pulled you over.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
No, they interviewed the whole block, and we all said
the same thing. We didn't really see nothing. We seen
two boys running down the street. We didn't really see nothing.
And then a year later I find out that this
girl was a witness when it first happened and said
that she thought it was the boy around the corner
and they just took X amount of time to actually

(24:59):
come and to arrest me. And why, I don't know.
I can't. I can't. I had no record, I had
never been in any trouble, you know. I I've always
thought that the law. I believe in the law, and
I thought that the laws for the lawless, and I
always believed in the justice system, you know. And I
just thought that this was going to pull over. I

(25:19):
never thought that I ever was going to go to prison.
I never thought I was going to ever have to,
you know, be sitting here. Yeah, and so, and then
you know what, when you're I was living my regular life.
You know, it was a tragedy that happened. We felt
really bad for the young man when it happened because
we knew everybody in the neighborhood. I went to Edison,

(25:39):
which is a school right across the street from where
I stayed. We all kind of knew each other growing up.
So it was it was heart It was heart wrenching.
It made everybody kind of want to stick to their
families and stay in the house. But I just think
they wanted someone to blame I. To this day, I'm
still baffled. I really can't give an answer why they
picked me because I didn't fit that. I didn't I

(26:01):
didn't fit the description. I didn't fit none of it.
I mean the guys they said the guys were like
one hundred and sixty two hundred and seventy pounds. That's
not my size at that time. I don't think you
were seventeen, Yeah, but I don't think I think. I
don't think I was that small since I was ten.
If I was a big kid, righty, So like pictures
of me and everything just proved it. It wasn't me, like,

(26:22):
you know, you wouldn't describe me as being that small.
That's a specific description. That's that's you know, and they
still convince.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
It like someone saying it was six foot tall and
then they come after me right, like right.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
It just was. It was. It was something that we
all were baffled by, and even to this day, I
stopped trying to figure it out. I think that's how
I was able to heal, be humble and kind of
be more joyful and have joy on my heart and
not blaming the people that put me there. I look
as well as there's someone who needs to be brought

(26:58):
to justice for what happened to this young man. People
need to be accountable for what happened to me. And
I want to be angry, but I can I'm free,
I'm free, I'm here with Emily, right. How can I
be angry at that? I want to be angry, but
it's just not in my heart. And I'm so grateful
that he did that for me, because the only person

(27:19):
can do that is God, to take that out of
your heart like that. You know, I'm not angry at nobody.
I'm not upset. I know that things happen. I'm not
a victim, you know. I am victorious in this in
so many ways, and now I can help.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
That's such a good attitude to have stuff. And I swear,
anytime I get down on the dumps about anything, I'm
just gonna call you because because I mean, honestly, it's
such a perspective to really focus on, because at the
end of the day, we all get so caught up
in the minutia of our lives and all these things
that bother us or this person said this, or I'm

(27:55):
on a TV show and blah blah blah. People on
social media said mean stuff about me, and it weighs
me down, It bogs me down, you know. And then
I sit next to you and I listened to you,
and you you spent twenty years in prison for a
crime you did not commit, and you came out of
it with a joyful heart and not you know, hatred
towards anyone, and you're out here speaking and advocating, and

(28:20):
you know, I think we can all take a lesson
from that. I think, you know, when we all feel
like we're having a horrible dame and we're dealing with
a lot of terrible things, I mean, we can think
about you and what you went through, and I don't
know You're just such an inspiration. I feel that way
every time I speak to you. I really do, I
really do. And you know, also, I would assume that
when you were going through your actual trial that the

(28:42):
entire time that you were you were in trial, you
were thinking I'm going to be I'm going to be acquitted, right,
I mean, I'm sure you weren't sitting there ever thinking
that you were going to be convicted.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
No, even after they I was convicted and during sentencing,
I had so much faith because of what we had
found out and what we had hired a new attorney
and he was working, and I had so much faith
that this was going to be overturned. I think it
was like maybe after my tenth year, I started like

(29:16):
really being drained and really realizing like, wait, this is real. Like,
you know, I think all that time I kind of
still had faith on my heart that this was going
to be overturned. I knew I was innocent, and I
think it was like my tenth year I kind of
sat back and I was like, Wow, you know, I
think I may have to spend the rest of my
life here.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Well, you spent twenty years. What was your original sentencing?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Though it was fifty to life. It was fifty to life,
and I was actually preparing for board before I was released.
A lot of people don't know this. So I had
fifty the life, but it was with the possibility of parole.
So they wanted me to do twenty five years, and
if I had done the programs and had a good
behavioral time in prison, that they would release me.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
So you were preparing for something that may take place
in twenty five years. Yes, that was your backup plan.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes. And the only thing I think deterred me from
that at the end was that they wanted me to
be accountable. They wanted me to take accountability. They wanted
me to stand up and say, hey, I did this.
I know it was wrong, I shouldn't have done it,
and I would like to go back into society for X,
Y and Z. I've done the best I could to

(30:29):
redeem myself. But even going to the board, like, how
can you say the time that I did twenty five years,
even if I had a clean slate, is enough time
for that young man's life. You know? It's like, I
appreciate that they have that system, and I think that
that system work. I think that we make mistakes, and
I think that people should have redemption. But for me,

(30:52):
being an innocent person, to stand up and said I
did something that I didn't do, I couldn't stomach it.
So I battled with that. I went back and forth.
If I used to call my attorneys and tell them, like,
I don't know how I'm supposed to stand up if
I'm able to go to board. Because they had this
SB two sixty law which said that if you got
convicted and you were twenty five or younger, that they
would try you as a juvenile. They would take that

(31:15):
into consideration. And being that I was so young, I
fell under that law. So they were gonna pull me.
I think six months prior to me coming home to
them finding out that I was wrongfully convicted, they were
gonna pull me early to go to the board. And
I had I had, I have been I have been
cleaned for a while. I had been taking building resilience
and anger management and a VP alternative to violence.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Had to know what you really needed, No, but you
were just going through the motion to say that you
know you're right right right.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
And I had so many milestones and so many things
I accomplished, but you know, what I will. I did
need it because I grew up in a redline area,
like I took AA and I had never been an
alcoholic but now but now now I drink and I
use those steps to colporate it, right, So it was
almost preparing me. I feel like it was preparing me

(32:07):
for now. That's the reason why I'm able to have
a little bit of of resistance to certain things going
to certain areas because I know better. You know, we
all were taught one way when we grew up, and
it's our upbringing, and I just was taught different, Like
my lessons were harder because I knew better. Other people,
you know, they grew up in these areas and it

(32:28):
goes down from like the grandparents to their parents and
then it trinkles down to them. It's just generational curse.
And so I knew better. You know, I didn't. I
didn't grow up. I grew up in a middle class
African American family, so I didn't grow up, you know,
not having the proper things. I didn't grow up in
an abusive home. I just didn't grow up like that.
So for the people who did, that's why my hardest

(32:50):
the way it is now, I feel really rody for
them because they had it hard like I had it hard,
but they had it hard. You know, they're the ones
who suffer differently. So I like, she said, what can
I How can I say I'm dealing with harsh times
when you got someone who's probably been physically abused when
they were a child, you know, So those things carry me,

(33:12):
and they liked my heart, and I walked soft because
I've been in a place where I've had to be
tough and I'm just done with it. I'm done. I'm
so done with that.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know, how's your mom.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
She's doing well, She's doing well.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
And I know your mom was a huge supporter of
you the entire time. She hired a private investigator, correct,
I mean, she knew you were innocent. She was doing
everything possible. And was there anything that came out of
her hiring the private investigator? Was there any information that
helped with your release from that?

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Very much? So he went out and we found out
that there were so many people who've seen what happened,
but they didn't want to say anything. And I understood
that being in the growing up in that neighborhood, so
they wanted to come and help, but they just they
just couldn't. And in the end, I think they finally
just was like, you know what, this is just too much.
And a lot of people have stepped up to help

(34:06):
me and and prove my innocence, and especially my mother.
I was mentioning my mother. That's another reason why I'm
so humble, because you know, imagine, you know, you have children,
Imagine one of your children at seventeen being taken and
there's nothing you can do, Like you know, she did
that time with me, and a lot of people don't

(34:26):
know how hurt and how much trauma she has. Like
I'm still young, I'm thirty eight years old, but my
mother's in her seventies and she's still like she still can't,
like she doesn't like slamming doors and different little things,
so she had I feel like she has more trauma
than I do. For me. Yes, I have two other siblings.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
With a younger older I'm just wondering what it was like.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
My brothers he's five years older than me, and my
sister she's the youngest.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
So so you were the middle child that was yes.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yes, and and and a big at the time, you know,
a big. It was a big piece of our family.
You know, I was always the outspoken one. I was
always the one willing to step up and take the blow.
And I get that from my mother. My father passed
when I was five years old, so I didn't have
him in my life. But my mother was both and

(35:17):
she played the position of both. She was an RN
registered nurse and she just she did all that she could.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
And she was single at this time. Yes, so she
was a single mother, yes, with through your children at
home in one taken away.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yes. Yes, And you know what, I owe her everything
I do. You know, I don't always get a chance
to express that to her, but I owe her everything.
She's She's just been such She's my best friend. She's
been so much of an advocate for me and rooting
for me. When I had no one to root for me,

(35:50):
she rooted for me. And there was time. There's just
one thing I want to share, what you guys, she said,
and maybe it can it can help you, right, she
told me. One day I called her and now, what's
going through so much grief? And I say, you know,
you don't understand. There's no one here to talk to
me when I needed, or to hug me when I
need a hugg and she told me to hug myself.

(36:10):
And I thought that that was so harsh, but it
got me through my journey because I'm the only person
at that time that was there for me. She just
taught me how to stand in my own lane and
stand on my own two feet as a man. And
that's why I say, like, women are just like so
powerful in this world. They don't get enough credit, but
they do so much. They're behind us so much, but

(36:33):
there are so powerful and they do so many great
things for us.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well more so, she was your mother, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
And even the women that I've dated, they throughout my journey,
since I've been home, they've all left me with a
piece of them. And the piece that they left was
just it helped me grow into who I am. It
really did, and I have to give them credit. There's
so many people in my life that I've met that
have given me my strength that I needed when I
got out here, and majority of the were women. I
have to be honest, good, that's the truth. That's the truth.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
At what point in time, if any I don't want
to put words about, did you come to have some
peace and just kind of accept things When.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
He was a prisoner afterwards.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Either, but peace with yourself where you were just content, right,
because I imagine happiness was hard to come by in prison.
Like peace and happiness are a little bit different. So
for Pea, did you have any peace at all?

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I did? You know? I had. They had gave lifers
back their family visits, and I was able to this
is in prison, and I was able to have my
wife with me at the time, Tamaya, and she was
able to give me a peace of the world that
I wasn't receiving because I was locked up, you know,
just different little things, being able to see a refrigerator

(37:56):
and a real bad and.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Was it visit where you got to go into a
little apartment and have a long time.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yes, yes, And so that that gave me a sense
of hope and a sense of relief because I was
starting to feel more a sense of normalcy, you know,
not being around men all day and just having someone
besides myself to hug me and do different things, you know.
So that gave me. And then when I got out,
I think what gave me a sense of peace was
I didn't really when I when I first when they

(38:25):
first let me out, I didn't really have nothing to
come home to. There was no compensation then, and there
was no transitional housing then. But my attorney's Jazmine and
Mike and a lot of other people. Forgive me if
I forgot to mention your name, but they helped me
throughout this process and are still helping me. Like, there's

(38:47):
so many things that they did for me that gave
me a peace of mind that made me feel more comfortable.
Like I wasn't by myself. I had my family, but
I had been gone for so long. You know, I
had been gone for so long. So I knew them,
but I didn't know them, and they didn't know they
knew me. And you know, people were getting out of
prison after twenty years, even me now, person that got
out would be a little skeptical, like you know this guy, Okay, yeah, sure,

(39:10):
you know, because those are harsh living situations and sometimes
people go in one way and they come out another,
you know, and it's because of where they were at
for so long, institutionalized, and so yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
You know, I think that's you know, that's why I
enjoy the work that I do at the Enocent Center
so much, is because people. First of all, I think
people don't think that so many people can be wrongly convicted.
It's not something you think. You think in a general
sense that the justice system works, and if people are
in prison it's because they committed a crime, and we
know that that's not always the case. Also, when you're

(39:45):
exonerated and you're let out, first of all, how did
you find out that you were going to be exonerated,
and the fact that you're factually innocent, which is different
because there's other times where people get out of prison
because of parole or something like that. But you were
deemed it's actually innocent, so you got to walk away
and then you didn't have to go through anything else.
There wasn't any hearings or parole bordering.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
That was the result of the eyewitnesses coming out.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yes, okay, yes, what.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Did that feel like?

Speaker 3 (40:11):
In that moment, it was really scary because I didn't
know if it was going to actually happen. And then
the way that it happened was they came and got me.
I had just got off of work. I started doing
a construction job I had been doing for like three years.
We were helping rebuild the prison, and they came and
got me from work. And they put me an asset,

(40:31):
and normally when they do that, it's because you're in trouble.
And so no one could ever tell me what was
going on and what was going to happen. And then like,
what did they put you in an asset? The whole
Oh it's called that said, and I didn't know what
was going to happen. And then I finally got ahold
of my attorney and he told me it was like,
you know, you got great chances of you coming home,

(40:53):
and they just want you to be safe, and they
put me an asset. And then from there it just
was like everything start happening so fast. I mean I
couldn't eat it.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I mean because it was just racing through your head,
this possibility.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
It wasn't like there was something that was filed and
I was waiting on a response for me from the courts.
I didn't know. And it's another thing I want people
to know, especially if you have families that are waiting
on their turn to be released with a foster accused.
We sometimes we don't see what's going on, but all
the magic is happening, like all of the blessings are happening.

(41:30):
These lawyers are working so hard, but we don't see it,
and we just kind of feel like nothing's going on,
no one's helping, But it's happening. And it happened to me.
It happened to me out of nowhere, and before I
knew it, I was in the courtroom and the judge
agreed to everything, the DA agreed to everything, and they
were releasing me.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
And how long was that period when they put you
in the hole until you were actually released? Do you
know how long a time?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
It was about fifteen days two weeks, so that's fast,
about two weeks.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
But I can understand. I bet the amount of anxiety
you had during those the two week time period must
have just been because on one hand, you don't really
want to celebrate, right because you don't want your mind
to go there, because if you allow your mind to
go there and then it doesn't work out, then you
have to go through that depression and that morning state.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Maybe if it was one year into it, you'd start
to get excited, but you had been there for twenty years,
sow you know what could be, which is another twenty years.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
And then my attorneys they were so like, they handled
it so well with me, but they always let me
know like this. Of course, there's always a chance that
it could call the opposite way. They were always trying
to prepare me chest in case, but they would also
nudge me and let me know you're all right, like
it's going to be good, you know. And so when
I finally got released, I don't think I finally realized

(42:51):
that I was really released until like maybe two three
months into it. I think I still was worried if
something was going.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
To happen, you're going to come down, knock your doors.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
And I just had to really come into myself and
my own and say, hey, you're innocent, you never deserve
to be there. You don't have to feel this way.
They did this for a reason, and you need to
just really relax, and I start, I start taking my
own advice. I start breathing and working. Working for anybody

(43:21):
who's just getting released is the main thing you have
to work.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
So that's really interesting. When you're in prison, you had
to figure out a way to be at peace, and
then when you got out of prison, you again had
to figure out a way to be at peace.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yes, what's the first thing that you think about that
you need to do? Is it finding a job. Is
that because they released you, which is great, you're exonerated.
But these are the conversations we've had before when with
the Enoson Center, is that there's no program, there's no
there's no transition. It's like you've just spent twenty years
in prison and now you're released and they let you

(43:54):
out the door and you walk away, and then it's
like good riddance. Now figure foul and you you don't
have a job, you don't have any compensation for being
in prison for twenty years. You have changed. I remember
you telling me when you're at my house that, like
an iPhone was something completely new to you.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Well, let's because of what year were you sentenced.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
I was sentence, I think you said. Or no, I
was sentenced in two thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Eight, but five was the year of the crime, So
from eight to twenty twenty four, twenty twenty four.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Yeah, like when I when I left, I think we
had those chirp nick telephones, and so.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, we're making phones identify where we are. Nonetheless, but
it's communication. It's it's way of getting about your day.
So you come out it's almost a foreign language in
some areas.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Of altechnology, and even traveling, it was hard for me
to the GPS, things like, am I going the right way?
This GPS is telling me forty five minutes out? Am
I going to take this chance and be way trusted?

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Right?

Speaker 3 (45:01):
And so? But now I'm doing much better. You know.
Now I'm learning how to get to places without using
the GPS, just side of memory. And I'm still having
a hard time with these iPhones.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I still have a hard time.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, that's important.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
But what was it like when you got out? What
was it like reconnecting with your family?

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Now?

Speaker 1 (45:22):
I know you were always close with your mom, so
I assume that that relationship probably was just took off.
But did you have any trouble reconnecting with your siblings?
Was it difficult to kind of feel like you've found
your place back into your family? I mean, you've been
gone for twenty years and their lives had all gone on,
and now you just have to jump back in.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
I did it. It's really difficult. Even now, it's really
difficult because we're getting to learn each other again. You know,
when I left, I believe my sister was thirteen fourteen, Yeah,
and so actually she was twelve when.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I left, very young.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, very very young. And then now she's a one,
you know, and so respecting boundaries and just on both ends,
you know, like she doesn't want me calling trying a
big brother her, and then there's a part of me
that wants to be protective. I want to make sure
that whatever that I've learned in my life I give
her because we should be able to learn from each
other's mistakes. You shouldn't have to make the same mistakes

(46:20):
I made, And not that I thought she would, but
it was always good for me to give it to
her just in case she has a child, a young boy, whatever,
just to kind of give her that extra heads up
on what could happen and how it happened to me.
And she was very receptive. But you know, it's being
away from someone for that long. You still have to

(46:40):
build that. You have to because.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
You you probably were released and you still have visions
of your memories are when she was twelve. Yeah, that's
where you that's where time stopped for you and your
relationship with her. Yeah, you come back and you still
know her as a twelve. I'm sure maybe you had visits.
I don't know, but you know her. Really, your relationship
was with a twelve year old and now she's thirty
two or whatever. Yeah, thirty and yeah, and you have

(47:04):
to or as a thirty year old.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Now right, and you know what she and vice versa.
They still treat me like I was just that I'm
this young kid. Yeah, yeah, that's right, and it's it's
when you've been controlled for so long like that you
kind of don't want to be controlled. And so in
the beginning, it was like people will try to give
me advice, and I wasn't receptive because I was like,

(47:28):
you know, yeah, I could see if you had it together.
If you had it together and you give me the advice,
I'll take it wholeheartedly. But if we're both on the
same page, like we're learning as we go, we can
be there for each other, but not the guiding part
of it. I just I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't ready
to accept like someone kind of helping me guide me

(47:50):
that I felt wasn't in a good position. But I
feel differently now because what they did for me was
give me a direction. You know, you can point someone
in the right direction, it's up to them to take
it and along your journey. If it doesn't go right,
you can always detour. So that well, my siblings, that's
where it's at right now. We're learning each other. We're

(48:11):
coming into who we are and learning who we are,
and it's thereship.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And you mentioned you're married. Yes, how long have you
been married?

Speaker 3 (48:21):
I've been married to me and to mine has been
married for ten years. We are more best friends than
married right now.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
That might be better than married and not best friends.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
That's my best friend. She has all of the right
intentions for me, and I trust her, and it's very
hard to find people that you trust. And I think
me and her relationship started while I was in prison.
We've been known each other for over thirty five years,
but our relationship started while I was in prison. So

(48:57):
to have a relationship in prison family visit once every
ninety days is not the same as living together knowing
each other like, that's a big different And so we're
learning each other, getting to know each other. And we're
great friends.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
So you knew her prior to being sentenced. Oh yeah, okay,
oh yeah, yeah, you truly are.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
We grew up to great You know.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
That's interesting that you said that, though, because having a
relationship or a marriage in prison is completely different than
when you're released. And then you try to have a marriage,
you know, and it might work when you're in prison,
Like you said, you can only see each other ninety
I mean, Shane. If I only saw Shane every ninety days,
I feel like we probably never have any arguments. It
probably work out great. But I see him every day,

(49:38):
so and that's different.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
So you're in prison having a relationship one way, and
you see each other every ninety days or whatever, and
you have only a limited amount of time, and you
talk about what you need to talk about, and then
you get released and you're like, wait, now I have
to see this person every day and I have to
figure out how to navigate life with them every day
and finances and all those things.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
And she has a routine's been doing this already. And
then someone comes in and it's probably saying, I don't
like burritos. Can we have this?

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Absolutely right? Absolutely right? And then you know, I'm a
very I would like to believe I'm a very loving person,
and so I'm really hands on and not for her.
Not having someone around that long, it kind of can
be a little overbearing, overbearing, And so I had to

(50:29):
learn that I had to learn that. And then I
because I was feeling some type of way like wait
a minute, what do you mean I'm here now? Is
what we've been dreaming and wait now. But I had
to do it in increments, and I just went with
the process and trusted. Like I said, we're really great friends,
really really great friends. She's a great person, someone that
I admire and looked up to for so many years.

(50:51):
She's like a trick of all trades. She's a school
teacher for so many years, and then COVID hit, and
then she went to work at the DMV and now
she's a manager there, and so like, she's like someone
who I look up to and look at and I
could appreciate her and her accomplishments and everything she's done
in her life. She's in really a good position, and

(51:13):
I'm really proud of her. Wonderful now.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
When you were released, how difficult was it for you
to find work? Was that the biggest challenge for you?

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Very hard, very hard for me? And I think I
don't think it was because people weren't willing to hire me.
I just think it was I wasn't ready. I wasn't
ready to work up under someone again. There it is
with the authority figure. I had been kind of you know,
when you use the restroom, you got to be told
yes or no, go to the yard doing yourself. So
I think I was still having that heaviness on me

(51:44):
and I think it was able to be released when
a young man came into my life. And he's a
really good kid, and you know, we all need directions.
I don't think we're ever too old to have someone
that can teach us, something that can give us a
positive affirmation, a word of advice. And I'm a people person.

(52:05):
So me me being you know, kind of in my
little shell for the little time I was when I
first came out, it was hard for me because I
want to get in there, you know, I want to
talk to people and communicate and network. And so now
I'm doing that and I'm doing better off. I try
to help where I can. Right now, I'm trying to
set up this program where I can help the youth

(52:25):
kind of make it so that they have something looked
forward to, some hope, because that's that's what we're lacking
in these in these areas I grew up in in
South Central we're looking for something to hold on to.
And I think when we see people and they have
nice cars and things, we don't talk about how hard
it was to get to there. You know, just one

(52:45):
day they come in a nice car and we think, Okay,
I'm gonna get older and one day I'm gonna come
on that it's so hard to get to there and
you have to you have to earn that. Nothing that's
worth having comes easy. So I think that's what I'm
trying to promote right now to the youth, that there's
a narrative painted that we need to be hard and
it's hard enough being a man. I want them to
get that first you can be a man and you

(53:08):
get all the respects from me, because that's what's hard,
you know, standing on your own.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
So is it something that you would like to do
is to mentor youth? Is that what you're trying to
set up? Is that when you say try to set up,
is that what you mean some type of program or
you're mentoring youth and.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
The right way like a lot of people do gang
prevention and stuff like that. I'm not trying to do that.
I'm just trying to show them something different because I
know a lot of people when I talked to them
when I was in prison, and we would sit down
and have these dialogues about how they got here, how
did they get to a point where it got this bad.
And a lot of people would tell me again their grandfathers,
their father and now them. It's just it's just it's

(53:45):
it's a it's a prime situation. It's a learned behavior.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yes, it sounds like it's they distincust their destiny.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Other way, this is my life.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I'm a criminal, or I'm never gonna make it, or
I'm never going to achieve what I want to achieve.
So forget it, and then they go down the wrong path.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yep, because they feel like that that's they're dead. Like
you said, that's they're destined. They don't have they don't
they don't have the tools to give them something else
that they can do, put them in a positive setting. Well,
you know what, they're tools and there are other things
that we can do. There's other Uh, there's another mindset
and we all can have it. It's just about learning
it and being conditioned to do something different. A lot

(54:24):
of kids, I was just telling Jasmine on the way
over here, they don't want to play sports, because they're
not good academically. You got to have good grades to
play sports. But they're athletes and they don't get the chance.
So you know what they do, They fall to the wayside.
There's so many kids that I knew that ran track,
that played football. I see them now they're in downtown, homeless,

(54:45):
and it just breaks my heart because I grew up
this kid was an athlete.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
He had something to offer, but.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
He couldn't get you. He couldn't get his grades right right. No,
he needed the extra little push. He didn't need to
come home into a house where no one was going
to push him and do his homework or study. You know,
they send you home with homework for a reason. The
teachers want you to keep up this battern so that
when they get back to school their minds refreshed. And
so it's just I want to promote that. You know,

(55:13):
mental health is real. I talk about it all the time.
A lot of us don't think that the mental health
problem is the problem, but it is. You know, if
you if I grew up in a toxic environment, I'm
going to grow up being toxic. So every relationship that
I have is going to be toxic. And we have
to break that, and there's a way to do it.

(55:34):
It takes time, it takes effort. I have the time,
I have the effort, I got the heart for it. It's
what I want to do, is my passion.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
I feel like that's you're calling because you have because
you have such a such a kind heart and such
a such a kind, pure soul. Like I could see
children just being very attracted to being in your presence
and listening to you. And you know, kids aren't always
open to listening to anyone. I have three kids. If
I if I tried to speak to them, they wouldn't

(56:03):
want to hear it. But if I if my children
sat down with you, they would listen to you. And
you that's something special that you have.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
And you speak from experience too. Yeah, so it's not.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Like you're lecturing. You're saying, I've been there, I've lived
through this, and let me help you. Where do you
see yourself five years from now?

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Five years from now, I see myself having this foundation
that helps more than just the children. Homelessness too, Like
it it's so rampant in Los Angeles, you know, and
these people belong to somebody's tribe, you know, these are
some These are people's families, and I think people just
get to a point where they give up with God
to have hope again in us as humanity, we just

(56:55):
got to have faith in this again. I think people
there's so many people who have done wrong and been
done wrong that they just give up and there's no hope.
You know, there's a way to fix this. We can't
help everybody, but we can try. And if I help
you and you help somebody, and you help somebody, we
pay it forward. Eventually it'll die down a little bit.

(57:16):
We can't just keep on looking past it. Like there's
so many things that we're fighting for and so many
things on the table that people feel like that this
issue will get handled eventually. There needs to be now.
Someone needs to step up and do something now because
we can help. It doesn't take much either. It's the
time and effort that most of us don't have it.

(57:37):
That's just what we're lacking in. It's not even about
the resources of the finances. It's time and effort. Some
people don't want to go downtown and feed the homeless.
They don't, But if you do that, you've done a
good deed and don't expect nothing back from it. Do
it because it's on your heart. I think that's when
it's more genuine, when you do it because you want to.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Do it, no strings attachment, no.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
And then there's no loss, there's no strings attached, there's
no loss. Don't give it if you can't afford to get.
And that's what time, effort, money, whatever it is, strength,
whatever it is. If I work on myself so that
when I go out, I'm an input and people plug
into me all the time, and I just feel like,
that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm here for.

(58:20):
That's why my heart is the way it is. That's
why my size is the way it is, because I
can handle it. And when you can handle it, do so.
Don't like like you know, utilize your strengths, don't don't
just let it go to waste. You know, life is short.
You don't never know what's gonna happen. Look at my situation.
I never thought that I spent majority of my life
in a place that I didn't deserve. And now it's

(58:42):
just about other people. It's not about me no more,
it's not It's not about Stephan Patters. Stephan Patterson. I'm Okay,
it's about other people and helping them and making sure
that there's something left behind, because otherwise what is it for.
I just don't see no other reason for that.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Can I just ask you one more question? What would
be your one piece of advice that you would give
to someone newly exonerated? I mean they're about to walk out.
What would be the one thing that you would advise
them or help them with?

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Don't stop, continue to go, continue to move forward, and breathe.
It sounds so simple. I've said breathe a thousand times, but.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
You literally mean breathe, like literally breathe, yes and feel
yourself yes.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yeah, because that's how you're going to get back into reality.
Because if you don't, like I know so many people
that have been exonerated, they're like, I don't see how
you can be in this room. It's too small, too
many people, too many objects. And it's like those people
I feel really bad for. Their trauma was deeper than mine.
You know. I always try to keep a good spirit

(59:48):
and just breathe. Take your time. Jasmine taught me this,
take your time for yourself because you can't help any
when we get out and we see our families torn
or not together like this, and we want to help
because we missed them and we're used to that when
we left. We come back and it's no longer like
it was when we were children, and we think we

(01:00:08):
want to help, but you have to help you first,
only worry about you. It's okay to be selfish in
that way so that you can help eventually.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Well, it's selfish, but it becomes selfless, right because now
you're better off as you are today to help others.
I have a quick question, what advice would you give
or what would you suggest for a young man who
maybe is being taken into custody for a crime day
and commit not to say what you did wrong, but
what would you suggest someone else to do at the time?

(01:00:39):
Would it be, you know, don't just assume that you're
going to be taken care of. But I don't know
what is it? What would you what did you learn
that you would tell someone else to do in that situation?

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
If you're in a situation where you've been detained and
serious like you know, and also there's no cavalry, there's
no cavalry. No one's coming to save you because they can.
At that point, you have to understanding your truth, whatever
it is. There's so many things that people put out there,
and they have these these weights I call them on

(01:01:08):
us as African American people, and that's you know, just
whatever ethnicity you are in your upbringing, there's a weight
put on us that we're not supposed to do certain things,
We're not supposed to look a certain way. Be who
you are. Don't worry about what no one else has
to say, don't worry about what social media is going
to say. Don't worry about be who you are, because
at the end of the day, I did all that

(01:01:30):
time for nothing, and I'm the only person Stephen Patterson
at done time for that crime.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
And can I just add as an attorney, I would say,
ask for an attorney and don't talk for.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Sure for sure. But you know what, when you're when
you're innocent and something, you don't even think about that,
and you think as I never thought about that, I didn't,
you know. I had people tell me, oh when when
they question you asked for when when it actually really happened,
I was more you're full than anything, like, how could

(01:02:02):
you accuse me of something like that? You know? So
it's like in that moment, you don't think of that,
especially as a child. As an adult, you may think, okay,
let me ask for an attorney. But when you didn't
do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Oh no, kids are not gonna know what that I
I felt.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
And then when I finally did a reason to know that,
when I finally did this, because that's what they told
me I could do if you wanted to have an
attorney present. And then I was like, you know what, okay,
because I didn't know what to do, and I felt
like they wouldn't let me speak. They weren't letting me talk.
They were kind of being overbearing. So at that point
I felt like I needed to be heard and they
weren't hearing me. So of course I'm going to ask

(01:02:36):
for assistance. But in the beginning, there was nothing I
really could do. I was a child.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
And also in the beginning, like Jasmine and I have
had this conversation, when you get brought down to the station.
In the beginning, you think you're there because you're just helping. Yeah,
you don't even understand that you're a suspect, that they're
interrogating you, that they that you're just thinking I'm here,
I'm here to help and then all of a sudden,
I'm sure at some point something goes off in your
brain where you're like, oh wait a minute, I'm I'm
not really here to help. So well, anyway, thank you

(01:03:04):
Stefan for being here today and always being so open.
I love having conversations with you. We've had many, and
I love how open you are about sharing your story.
I think it's so helpful to other people. Also, it's
always important for people to hear your story because we
always say at the Innocent Center that everyone out there
listening is a potential juror. So if you're sitting on
a jury, I mean you need to pay attention because

(01:03:26):
this man was convicted by a jury. And how I
don't understand, but it happens all the time. So again,
thank you so much, and we really enjoyed having you
and sharing your story.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Thank you for having me. I got a book coming.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Oh all right, well, let's promote that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
What is of the Beasts? And it's just it's my
life story, you know, about how I grew up and
how South Central was when I grew up, and how
you know, there's a there's a great deal of people
suffered that need to be acknowledged and that are passed
on and gone. Parents had to suffer with me leaving,

(01:04:02):
and so it's just about my life. It's coming soon.
It's coming soon. I'm in the works of it right now,
and I will let you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
That's great. Well, when it comes out, we will definitely
have you back and we can talk about your book
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