July 2, 2022 • 40 mins
Chris Spetzler, Executive Director of the Decision Education Foundation along with two students Zach and Ben discuss the importance of good decision making and how it has helped them choose the right path for their lives, with podcast producer Dave Ungrady.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
It was obviously an object lesson that many coaches used
to preach to their players about making good decisions because
all of those choices, all of those decisions can have
impacts that reverberate far beyond what you think of.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In the moment that taps got the NBA executive, a
former coach and a friend of Limbia's, he.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Was gifted and had optimized his gifts as a basketball
player to realize the dream of being an NBA player,
and in a moment or moment of a bad choice
or decision around cocaine drug use, it costs him his life.
(00:51):
And that is a message that resonates not just because
it was drugs, but because life is fragile and sometimes
the choices we make can be fatal. And it's a
reminder for all of us that the choices we make,
the associations we have with others, we just have to
(01:13):
be mindful that if we're not careful, it can it
can sometimes end not just badly, but favor.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Made the Mark kel are former NBA player in college
basketball television.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Analysts when Bias was one of the best in college
basketball and he's projecting to be one of the best
ever play the game in the NBA, and he never
may had that chance because of the choices he made,
and for that reason alone, we need to keep history alive.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Bonnie Bernstein, a former University of Maryland gymnast and a
network sports casting.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
So poor decision, and you know, you don't know what
led up to that decision, but it really does emphasize
the fact that you got to think about what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Dan Bonner, a college basketball television analyst.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
What we need to do is help people to think
clearly about their decisions. And we also know that human
beings are not completely rational and that there are what
we call decision traps. We want to think about how
we can make better decisions. Well, what we would like
to do is to have these skills and have them
(02:25):
be practiced to the level that they do come naturally.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Chris Spetzler, the executive director of the Decision Education Foundation. Now,
in this episode of len Bias The Mixed Legacy Epilogue,
Episode one, we will explain the tools you need to
help you make the right decision, focusing on two students
who faced critical decisions. Since the death of len Bias
(02:55):
in nineteen eighty six, many branches of blame have sprouted
from the fertile tree of speculation. It was a lefty
Griselle's fault for not watching his players more closely. Some
have said the University of Maryland should have better policies
in place to better gauge drug use on campus. Others
have said those close to Bias field they should have
(03:18):
more aggressively questioned him about things he had done in
his final months. All these points are certainly debatable, but
one set of facts is indisputable.
Speaker 7 (03:29):
Left he didn't put the cocaine in Lenny's nose. He
didn't buy the cocaine for Lenny or any of that stuff. Lenny,
you know, was over the age of consent. He was
an adult, and he did that on his own accord.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's JJ Bush. He started as a Maryland athletic trainer
in nineteen seventy two, and he continued in that role
at Maryland until twenty eleven. Athletic trainers are an insightful
bunch when it comes to athletes. They see and hear
things that most others do not. The wisdom of Bush
in the previous comment speaks volumes about who is to
(04:07):
blame for the death of Len Bias The death of
Bias comes down to this. He made a bad decision
to abuse drugs to the point where it killed him.
No one told him to do it. Lend's death underscores
the importance of making clear minded, values based decisions, especially
(04:28):
when it comes to considering actions that can have life
shaping consequences. With that in mind, we are continuing this
podcast series about the legacy of len Bias with what
we are calling a functional epilogue, episodes in the discussion
format that will help us learn about the importance of
making the right decisions. We will use the tragic story
(04:52):
of len Bias as a teaching tool to better understand
the importance of making effective decisions. Will explain what it
takes to make not just a good or bad decision,
but an effective decision to help us in that process.
We are working with the Decision Education Foundation. The DEF
(05:14):
teaches decision skills and helps people understand the importance of
making the best possible decision. They are also a promotional
partner in this podcast series. We will discuss decision making
with several people. They include DEF Executive director Chris Spetzler.
(05:34):
Chris is a respected authority on the topic and as
a national leader in the movement of decision education. Chris
will be our point person for explaining the principles of
effective decision making. There is so much more to making
the right decision than simply telling people that you need
to make the right decision. Chris will help explain the
(05:57):
tools we need to use. Joining us in this first
of three episodes on decision making are Zach Reid and
Ben Kotoko. They are students who have benefited from decision
education and learning to make better decisions has played an
important role in their lives. In future episodes, three others
(06:19):
will discuss decisions they have made and how they arrived
at those decisions. They include Justin Gatlin, a former Olympic
and World champion in the one hundred meters. He later served
a four year suspension for a performance enhancing drug violation.
Justin later returned to a sprint career, winning Olympic silver
(06:41):
and at the age of thirty five, who was again
a world champion. In that race, he beat the famed
Ussein Bauld. Also one of the top high school basketball
coaches in the country is Glenn Farrello of Paul the
Sixth High School in Fairfax. Virginia teams have repeatedly finished
(07:01):
among the top twenty in the country over the last
two decades. Our final guest will be Travis Garrison. Travis
grew up in the same county as Len Bias, Prince
George's county. Like Len, he played basketball at Maryland. Travis
was a term from two thousand and two to two
thousand and six. He has overcome two assault convictions and
(07:24):
now is using his platform to help people make better
decisions with his program called Think First, Make the Right Choice.
Chris Spetzler joins us now. Chris first tell us about
the Decision Education Foundation and its role in helping people
make the right decision.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Thanks Dave, So Yeah. I'm the executive director of the
Decision Education Foundation, and our mission is to empower young
people with effective decision skills that help them to make
better decisions and have better outcomes in life. And I've
got a couple of students that I've invited along this
(08:05):
session who are going to share how some of the
stuff that we teach has been important in their lives.
But in short, we're all making decisions throughout our life,
and our lives are very much built based on the
decisions that we make. You know, unfortunately with lend Bias,
he made a lot of good decisions in his life,
(08:26):
but what we know is that one bad decision really
made everything go in the wrong direction for not only him,
but for a lot of people around him and for
society in general. So if we can help people to
make better decisions, a single better decision can also be
life changing. And we don't always talk about things. You know,
(08:50):
don't do this, don't do that. What we want to
do is help people to understand how to make better
decisions so that they can make better decisions throughout their life.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Became aware of a def right after I wrote the
book about len Bias, The Boy Ready to Mix Legacy
of Len Bias, that came out in twenty eleven, and
that forms the basis of this podcast series. I was
out and selling the books at a lot of Basket of
youth basketball tournaments and other events, and often people would
(09:22):
come up to me and say, Hey, that's a great story.
I'm glad you wrote the book, but what are you
doing about it? I mean, it's a hard story, it's
a tough story, but where's the good that's coming out
of this? Then? I realized at that point that yes,
this story comes down to lend did make a bad decision,
and how can I talk to people about making better decisions?
And I discovered your foundation, Chris, Can you give us
(09:46):
an overview of the technical aspect of making the right decisions?
Speaker 6 (09:52):
Yeah, So we know that just say no doesn't work.
What we need to do is help people to think
to about their decisions. And we also know that human
beings are not completely rational and that there are decision traps.
We want to think about how we can make better decisions,
(10:13):
and one tool that we have in that sense is
something we call the decision chain. And it's a chain
because it's only as strong as its weakest link. And
the links of the decision chain are values. What it
is that you want in your decision, alternatives, what it
is that you can do, Information, what it is that
you can know, And because the future is uncertain, we
(10:38):
also have to be able to think about probabilities. And
that's where sound reasoning comes in, where we can identify
the alternative that gets us the most of what we
want our values, given what we can know the information.
So those are four links in the chain, and one
(10:58):
other important link is commitment to follow through, because if
you just make up your mind but you never do
anything about it, that's not a quality decision. So I
think we all have personal experiences where we know we
didn't follow through. And the final one is the frame,
What is the decision that you're making. And I would
(11:20):
think that lend Bias when he made that choice to
use cocaine, was not aware that the frame included the
possibility of death, and so he fell into a decision
trap because his frame was too narrow. And if we
can help people to understand how to improve their framing
(11:43):
of a decision or strengthen their chain links the ones
that I just went through, just having that as a
checklist is something that can take us out of a
situation where we are being mindless, make us much more
mindful and able to go through a rational process, slowing
(12:05):
us down, keeping us from making big mistakes. What we
would like to do is to have these skills and
have them be practiced to the level that they do
come naturally.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Chris, can you mention? Can you talk about who Zach
and Ben are and how they benefited from their experiences
with a decision education foundation?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Yeah, so Decision Education Foundation works with schools, and historically
we've also had classes that we've taught through Stanford pre
Collegiate Studies, So we had high school students that came
to Stanford and Ben took the Stanford course and Zach
was involved with a charter school up in Oregon where
(12:50):
DEF was a part of the curriculum. Zach overcame some
significant challenges and he'll tell you a little bit about those,
and then has really been great about creating opportunities for himself.
And he's an entrepreneur down in Los Angeles, and he'll
tell you a little bit about that. But of course
(13:11):
entrepreneurs have to know how to take appropriate risks and
risks and uncertainty. That's the kind of stuff that DEEF
helps people to understand. And especially with the teenage brain
being what it is, we know that the prefrontal cortex
of young people is still growing in and the hot
(13:33):
center of decision emotional decision making is the amygdala, and
we got to be able to help them to navigate
a difficult time until their rational decision making becomes stronger.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Let's start with Ben. Then you talked about entrepreneurship. Ben,
can you tell us what decision you were facing.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
The most recent and probably the kind of core decision
I made was deciding to leave post secondary university before
I finished graduating to actually pursue the startup venture that
I'm working on now. I had already dabbled in entrepreneurship
and kind of had been exposed to know what entrepreneurship
(14:20):
was and how it was a tool to be able
to solve problems, and going into the University of Oregon
my freshman year, made the decision, you know, coming into school,
if I have the opportunity to go after building a company,
That's what I'm going to do. Whether that happens while
I'm in school or after the fact, that was my
whole focus. So going into my junior year of college,
(14:41):
I had been working on a project with my brother
and essentially the platform we were working on was helping brands,
small boutiques, retailers get visibility when it comes to building
their brands. And with that that kind of gave me
a a foundation to be like, Okay, this is something
(15:02):
that I feel passionate about and I want to move
forward with and kind of, you know, put more effort
into it. Because when you're juggling school and trying to
build a startup, it's you know, you have to choose
one or the either, because you can either end up,
you know, chasing two rabbits and catching either. So that
was the decision that I had to make, was you know,
(15:23):
am I going to take the time to finish out
the senior year of my college experience or am I
gonna step away from school and put one hundred percent
of my focus into this startup. And the reason that
decision was big is because in the world of you know, startups,
and specifically our our platform being a tech platform, it's
all about speed's market. So within that decision, you know,
(15:48):
the frame obviously was like, okay, am I going to
step away or am I going to continue school? But
I really had to assess my own values in terms
of who I am and where I wanted to be,
and also think about the alternatives whether or not, you know,
education could be something I could pursue further down the line,
or if this opportunity would be something I could pursue
(16:10):
further down the line. So with all those things, in
having that framework of thinking about how I should think
about making this decision, they gave me clarity as to
know bet on myself and kind of pursue my own
sense of purpose in striving to build the startup that
(16:33):
I'm working on today.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Chris, as you remember the process with Ben, what areas
did you focus on within the decision chain or did
you use all of them? Was one more important than
the other in his decision process?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Well. One of the things that is impressive about Ben's
story is that while he was at u Ofo, he
got this startup going with his brother, and they had
it in an accelerator and they were already having success
before he made the decision to switch. So in addition
(17:08):
to being a student and also working to get through school,
he on the side started up this business concept and
only made the decision to jump once it started to
prove out. So he had limited the uncertainty and he
didn't just jump right at the beginning. He got started
(17:30):
and made sure that there was progress.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
And that's really part of why making that decision became critical,
because I was doing so many different things and seeing
the potential in what we were trying to build, and
also juggling responsibilities and commitments, especially with school. So with
(17:54):
those two things, the framework kind of allowed me to
balance who I was my values and also really gave
me a way of understanding how to parse through the
options that I did have in terms of aligning what
(18:15):
I was committed to, and then of course the chain
of commitment and follow through. It's a tough decision to
say I'm going to leave school. You know, it doesn't
make your parents it's extremely happy. You know, some professors
are against it, others are you know, supportive of it.
But you kind of have to take in all those
(18:36):
perspectives and then decide for yourself what you're going to
follow through on.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
You mentioned your frame, and you mentioned your values. How
did you define your frame within this decision and what
values were you focusing on in this decision?
Speaker 8 (18:50):
So I'd say the frame was really I've gotten this
far in college, but I'm seeing success how happening within
the startup we're building. And you're a human and you're
limited in terms of how many hours in the day
and energy you have to commit to anything, and if
you split that too far, then neither of the things
(19:14):
that you're splitting your time out against really ends up
you know, making progress. So that was the frame, you know,
how do I optimize my time in the way that's
going to be the most meaningful meet or meaningful for
me moving forward. And really my values have always been
(19:35):
centered around one helping people and then two a natural
kind of inclination towards entrepreneurship. So my intention going into
college the first weekend that I ended up on campus
in my dorm, I sat in my room that whole
(19:56):
weekend and decided, you know, why was I in school?
And the reason I set out for myself was to
develop a skill set around, you know, communication that would
be able to help me in any field that I
chose to do, whether it was building my own company
or going into an industry post college. And then also
(20:18):
making connections, but within those two things, gearing them towards
you know, the direction of eventually starting my own company,
because that's something that I always wanted to do given
my history, my background, and who I am. So those
(20:41):
two things, i'd say kind of encapsulate the frame and
the values.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Chris, can you explain what your role and decision Education
Foundation's role was with these two young men? Where do
you step in?
Speaker 6 (20:57):
Well, so, in both cases, the training that Zach and
Ben had was several years prior to these particular situations
and I think we gave them a platform and a
foundation to be clear about their decisions, and it became
(21:20):
something that became more of an unconscious habit. And so
both Ben and Zach are individuals that stood out in
those classes and kept in touch.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Zach, tell us about that program you involved with where
you were introduced to decision making.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
I was a junior in high school when I met
Chris and the program, and I believe it was it
was either a world studies class or a governormics class.
And I came to recognize I had been diagnosed as
being asked, as having asked for her syndrome when I
was a young kid. So I'd spent a long time
in therapy as a kid, figuring things out, figuring out
(22:03):
how to handle and make better decisions, just under different auspices,
as it were, with with thinking about cognitive distortions and
what and what do I value? What kind of friends
do I want to have at such a young age.
Everything it was under this It was in the same
vein as how to make a good decision, how to
how to do the right things that will benefit you
(22:25):
and make you happy without engaging in these these fallacious
thoughts that will lead you astray.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Tell us now about that decision. What what decision did you.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
Face Originally when when Chris and I first met, my
plan was to go to medical school. A lot of
things happened. Then my father passed away at a very
young age, and I met Ben and Chris at the
at the Stanford at the Stanford campus when the with
the pre collegiate institutes, and while while I was there
(22:57):
that that provided a nice break after losing my father,
But when I came back to try and be there
for my mother and sister and everything, it quickly dawned
on me that medical school is a large investment of time.
There has to be another way to help people. Was
lucky enough to shadow with a group of surgeons when
(23:19):
I was seventeen, but it was just it was such
a time investment, and after losing my dad at such
a young age, I really wanted to try and minimize
the amount of time that I was in school so
I could be there be around to see the life
events of my mother and sister and the rest of
my family. So that led me down to being to
(23:42):
explore the different alternatives in health care for what I
could be and I Eventually, Eventually, after a few years,
I settled on physician's assistant. The schooling is less, is
slightly less arduous, responsibilities are remarkably similar. I can still
help people and I don't break myself doing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
It, Zach, as you were going through the process, and
we've talked about the decision chain before, was there any
link in that chain that you thought as you were
going through the process with each of those links that
was most helpful. The information, the sound reasoning, the alternatives,
the frame and the commitment and etc.
Speaker 9 (24:26):
I think the creative alternatives and everything, because there's such
a wide breadth in the field of medicine with what
one can do. And one of my human anatomy classes
in college, the professor himself at the end of the
term start talking about like, it's not the end of
the world if you don't get the A plus you
want in this class. It really isn't. There are plenty
of other things that you can do, and he planted
(24:49):
those out. He created alternatives were the most important thing
for narrowing all of this down.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Ben and Zach, what were the more challenging aspects of
the decision making process? Was it actually a process that
you felt very natural with let's go with Ben first.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
Yeah, so I was gonna say I think the process
felt natural, But the kind of challenge probably was mostly
around the sound reasoning in the sense that, you know,
making the decision to leave school to focus on on
the startup. You know, I had to gauge a lot
(25:27):
of different people's perspectives. You No, it wasn't just a
decision where I was the only stakeholder in there. So
there's my parents, there's you know, my professors, there's friends,
there's you know, you know, so many people who've invested
in me to get to that point. You know, whatever
perspectives that I did get, I weighed them into the
(25:51):
alternatives and kind of you know, ways that I could
approach the decision. But ultimately, in that process, I realized
that that, you know, for yourself, you can't not every
decision you make is going to make everyone happy. So
you need to kind of balance your decision with you know,
optimizing it to have the best effect on the people
(26:13):
around you or the other stakeholders in that decision, but
then also you have to optimize that for your own
values and what you care about most, and kind of
getting to a place of you know, clarity and concrete,
definitive confidence and this is what I'm going to do
and I'm going to follow through on that.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So Chris Ben mentioned something about reasoning and there's the
head heart concept about making decisions. Can you talk a
little bit about that and how that plays a lot
into the chain? What are the links in the chain
that that the head heart most applies to.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Well, So we want a good decision to both make sense,
that's the sound reasoning, and feel right, and that's typically
the heart and the emotions. And sometimes our emotions and
our passions can run away with us and we need
to balance the head. And sometimes we are in a
(27:15):
situation where we're convinced that we know what is right
and we're going to do it no matter what. And
in fact, somebody that's sitting next to us can say, yeah,
I understand that you believe that you are logically reasoning,
but you may be missing out on the emotional impact
(27:38):
of others who are around you. Let me clue you
in on some of the heart aspects that you're missing.
So balancing head and heart. Some people are naturally leading
in their decisions with the head, and others are naturally
leading in the heart. And what we want to do
is we want to meet the decision where it needs
to be met. And if we're someone who's a heart
(28:00):
centered person and we're facing a financial decision, it's probably
time to reach out and get some professional help. And
if you're a logic person and you're dealing with a
relationship issue, maybe you need to reach out and get
help there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Can you qualify the difference between the two? Is one
more important than the other the head of the heart
and it's got to be right in the middle.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Well, each decision has its own natural balance, and we
want to meet it where it is. So there's any
specific decision has its own correct balance, and that's where
we need to kind of work on it until we
(28:45):
have the clarity that Ben talked about. You know, if
if we have a balance of head and heart, if
we've got strength in all of the elements of the
links in the chain, then we can be confident in
moving forward recognizing that there is uncertainty and we could
have a bad outcome. But if we made a good
(29:06):
decision and have a good out a bad outcome, that
just means that we need to continue making that good
decision and until the probability stack up in our favor.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So that balance of head heart really is relative to
the individual I would imagine right the other.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
Not necessarily or so much the individual, but on the
individual decision. So some decisions are much more logic head
decisions and others are much more heart value focused decisions
(29:46):
and relationships. And so there's no one size fits all.
It has to do with what's the decision that you're facing,
and we need to test and make sure that it
makes sense on the logic and the reason and it
also feels right in the emotion and the values.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You talk about. I think the hip the hip tool
to determine how important something is. Chris, can you explain
what hip means in relation to decision fitness?
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, So the hip check is a way of thinking
about the size of a decision. So it is H
is how will things change? I is impact, so if
it's a small impact or a bigger impact, and then
the final one is P is permanent. So if something
(30:39):
is permanent, then it's not reversible and that makes it
a bigger decision. If it's a decision that we can
reverse and pay some sort of a cost to get
out of then that's a smaller decision. But you know,
if we think about len Bias, he made a decision
(31:00):
and had a permanent and terribly negative outcome. And I'm
not sure that he thought about how big of a
decision it could have been at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And within the context of lembias, also what had impact
on many others and how well things changed. It changed
a lot, So he certainly he wasn't thinking about that.
Zach tell us, now, what we're more significant a challenge
than the others within the shape, I.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
Would say sound reasoning and potentially commitment to follow through
and figuring out the reasoning behind why I wanted to
choose positions took a lot of time to narrow down,
and then the commitment to follow through. Applications to pa
MD nursing schools, they're all very strenuous and rigorous. The
(31:54):
m Cataloan I believe it's like a seven and a
half hour test. The gre is six. There's just there's
a lot. There's a lot to do when it comes
to applications. But that's just like pretty much everything, especially
when you're transitioning from high school to college. If you're
transitioning to a four year school out of the gate.
I know UVO and me wanted me to write an essay,
(32:18):
and that was shortly after I lost my dad. So
I managed, I managed to get through it, but ultimately
I ended up attending an alternative college.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
It's not what feels good but feels right, Chris. But again,
you're not gonna know it's gonna be a good or
bad decision until until you work through it. But it's
got to feel right, and that's a big difference, correct, Chris.
Speaker 6 (32:41):
Oh, sure. So people often will convince themselves that that
they feel good about a decision, but their logic is faulty,
and we want to make sure that we can slow
them down enough that they can go through the steps,
maybe the links of the chain, and think through whether
(33:02):
or not. For example, they have creative alternatives that you know,
they don't have to do something. It's not an either
or situation. There are often many other alternatives involved, Zach.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Did you find when you were you consider the commitment
part of this decision that you had to sort of
adjust your levels of commitment or your goals as far
as the commitment because you because of everything that was
happening in your life, maybe the time frame you're working in,
the frame now, the scope and how well it's going
to take. Yeah, I absolutely did.
Speaker 9 (33:38):
Originally I was going to exit university right out by
of the gate and then head right towards the A school.
I'm obviously not at p A school right now, but
I decided. I decided while graduating last year, during during lockdowns,
that I wanted to break and I wanted to work
for a little while and get a breather. It had
(34:01):
been a very taxing sprint is I guess the best
way to put it for the last the last four years,
and so I sent it. So I don't have any
plans right now. I'm just working at a group of
hospitals here in the area and getting experience that way,
(34:25):
and sooner and later I will likely go back to
school and start taking some more classes and then probably apply.
But I'm definitely not jumping to go anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
As I understand the decision making process and the front
and the decision chain. Part of the frame is you
want to see where you are five ten years from now.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
Well, it all depends on what you're trying to achieve.
I would think that you definitely want to be considering
five ten years out, what maybe not what you'll be doing,
but what kind of skills that you want to have,
because you know, life happens and there's uncertainly and sometimes
(35:07):
you need to be able to change your course. But
if you've got the right skills in place and the
right accreditations, you can you can move with it. Up
next on Lembai some mixed legacy.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And one person very familiar with those types of decisions
is Glenn Farrello, head coach of the boys basketball team
at Paul the Sixth High School in Fairfax, Virginia.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
And I think the most important part of that decision
making is you want to try to find a way
to not just talk out at them.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
You want to talk to you.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
I give them some information that they can actually think
about instead of being another adult telling them what to
do or you know, the pitfalls of life.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
I would think that this is the sort of training
that you want to work with the players off the court,
so that then when they're in that situation, they have
something that they can refer back to that they can
use in that moment.
Speaker 10 (36:03):
May able to get them to think clearly of what
their purpose is and their enthusiasm for what they're doing.
Then they're much more accepting of some of the decision
making decision decisions that they have to make on the board.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
For our next segment, we will talk with a former
University of Maryland basketball player who has overcome some profound
personal challenges and now promotes the importance of making the
right decisions. Garrison was two years old when Unbiased died.
Like Len, he became a top high school player and
chose to play US college ball at the University of Maryland.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It was one particular time when I did get in trouble.
I coach told us that we weren't allowed at the
bars to hang out. I used to, you know, drink
a lot in my room and then I'll go hang out.
In this particular time, you know, I was going through
stuff mentally, you know, coming off of injury.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So I just wanted to go hang out, and I
kind of went down.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
To the bars. And decision fitness is when you are centered.
Your decision state is as good as it can be
in terms of processing information, in terms of making reasoned judgments,
in terms of being clear on what your values are.
And there are plenty of situations where we know that
(37:16):
that has been impaired.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Definitely wasn't so minded. I would have handled the things
of that differently, So that definitely did a factor. But
I can't used as excuse me.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
This is Daven Grady, President of god Grady Media and
executive producer of this podcast series. It is with profound
sadness that I inform you about a tragedy involving a
god Grading Media intern. Nzol Alvaranga passed away in early
June following an accident. He collided with a van while
(37:56):
riding his bicycle near his home in the Pesda, Maryland.
Enzo was a rising sophomore at the University of Maryland
majoring in journalism. His work for US focused on the
thirty four plus one campaign since the late spring of
twenty twenty one. As a volunteer, he helped edit video
and audio clips for our Lend Bias Legacy podcast production.
(38:20):
He also edited the audio and video clips for our
timeline promotion supporting the podcast. His work was exemplary. We
had hoped to help Enso earn a credit internship this summer,
but we were unable to do so. Typically he said
he wanted to help anyway. We talked Today before he
(38:42):
died about his role helping promote the podcast series. Interestingly,
due to COVID, I never personally met Enzo, but we
had lots of zoom and phone calls. He was a
wonderful young man, gentle, respectful, deferential, responsible and diligent in
his work. I met his mother and father at his
(39:06):
funeral service. When I told Enzo's father about his work
on the La Bias project, a smile came to his face.
He was very proud of what he did, he said,
as was everyone at Go Grady Media.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready,
The Mixed Legacy of Lembi's, published by Go Grady Media.
Speaker 8 (39:40):
The series is produced by Go Graded Media in partnership
with Octagon Entertainment.
Speaker 6 (39:44):
This segment was produced by Dave Ungrady and Don Marcus.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
It was written by Dave ung Grady and edited by
Don Marcus. The narrator was Dave Ungrady, with additional narration
by Jamal Williams. Technical production was provided by Octagon Entertainment.
Speaker 6 (39:58):
Production assistants was produced by Kevin mcnelty, Tino Quagliata, Lauren Ross, Georgia.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
Brown, Casey Fair, Jamal williams Kelsey Mannix and Enzo al Varna.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Matt Deherst is providing the social media assistance special thanks
to the University of Maryland and American University for providing inserts.
Speaker 8 (40:17):
The Decision Education Foundation is a content and promotional partner
of this podcast series. For more information, go to gogradymedia
dot com. This has been a production of go grading
Media and the Eighth Side Network
It was obviously an object lesson that many coaches used
to preach to their players about making good decisions because
all of those choices, all of those decisions can have
impacts that reverberate far beyond what you think of.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In the moment that taps got the NBA executive, a
former coach and a friend of Limbia's, he.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Was gifted and had optimized his gifts as a basketball
player to realize the dream of being an NBA player,
and in a moment or moment of a bad choice
or decision around cocaine drug use, it costs him his life.
(00:51):
And that is a message that resonates not just because
it was drugs, but because life is fragile and sometimes
the choices we make can be fatal. And it's a
reminder for all of us that the choices we make,
the associations we have with others, we just have to
(01:13):
be mindful that if we're not careful, it can it
can sometimes end not just badly, but favor.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Made the Mark kel are former NBA player in college
basketball television.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Analysts when Bias was one of the best in college
basketball and he's projecting to be one of the best
ever play the game in the NBA, and he never
may had that chance because of the choices he made,
and for that reason alone, we need to keep history alive.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Bonnie Bernstein, a former University of Maryland gymnast and a
network sports casting.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
So poor decision, and you know, you don't know what
led up to that decision, but it really does emphasize
the fact that you got to think about what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Dan Bonner, a college basketball television analyst.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
What we need to do is help people to think
clearly about their decisions. And we also know that human
beings are not completely rational and that there are what
we call decision traps. We want to think about how
we can make better decisions. Well, what we would like
to do is to have these skills and have them
(02:25):
be practiced to the level that they do come naturally.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Chris Spetzler, the executive director of the Decision Education Foundation. Now,
in this episode of len Bias The Mixed Legacy Epilogue,
Episode one, we will explain the tools you need to
help you make the right decision, focusing on two students
who faced critical decisions. Since the death of len Bias
(02:55):
in nineteen eighty six, many branches of blame have sprouted
from the fertile tree of speculation. It was a lefty
Griselle's fault for not watching his players more closely. Some
have said the University of Maryland should have better policies
in place to better gauge drug use on campus. Others
have said those close to Bias field they should have
(03:18):
more aggressively questioned him about things he had done in
his final months. All these points are certainly debatable, but
one set of facts is indisputable.
Speaker 7 (03:29):
Left he didn't put the cocaine in Lenny's nose. He
didn't buy the cocaine for Lenny or any of that stuff. Lenny,
you know, was over the age of consent. He was
an adult, and he did that on his own accord.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That's JJ Bush. He started as a Maryland athletic trainer
in nineteen seventy two, and he continued in that role
at Maryland until twenty eleven. Athletic trainers are an insightful
bunch when it comes to athletes. They see and hear
things that most others do not. The wisdom of Bush
in the previous comment speaks volumes about who is to
(04:07):
blame for the death of Len Bias The death of
Bias comes down to this. He made a bad decision
to abuse drugs to the point where it killed him.
No one told him to do it. Lend's death underscores
the importance of making clear minded, values based decisions, especially
(04:28):
when it comes to considering actions that can have life
shaping consequences. With that in mind, we are continuing this
podcast series about the legacy of len Bias with what
we are calling a functional epilogue, episodes in the discussion
format that will help us learn about the importance of
making the right decisions. We will use the tragic story
(04:52):
of len Bias as a teaching tool to better understand
the importance of making effective decisions. Will explain what it
takes to make not just a good or bad decision,
but an effective decision to help us in that process.
We are working with the Decision Education Foundation. The DEF
(05:14):
teaches decision skills and helps people understand the importance of
making the best possible decision. They are also a promotional
partner in this podcast series. We will discuss decision making
with several people. They include DEF Executive director Chris Spetzler.
(05:34):
Chris is a respected authority on the topic and as
a national leader in the movement of decision education. Chris
will be our point person for explaining the principles of
effective decision making. There is so much more to making
the right decision than simply telling people that you need
to make the right decision. Chris will help explain the
(05:57):
tools we need to use. Joining us in this first
of three episodes on decision making are Zach Reid and
Ben Kotoko. They are students who have benefited from decision
education and learning to make better decisions has played an
important role in their lives. In future episodes, three others
(06:19):
will discuss decisions they have made and how they arrived
at those decisions. They include Justin Gatlin, a former Olympic
and World champion in the one hundred meters. He later served
a four year suspension for a performance enhancing drug violation.
Justin later returned to a sprint career, winning Olympic silver
(06:41):
and at the age of thirty five, who was again
a world champion. In that race, he beat the famed
Ussein Bauld. Also one of the top high school basketball
coaches in the country is Glenn Farrello of Paul the
Sixth High School in Fairfax. Virginia teams have repeatedly finished
(07:01):
among the top twenty in the country over the last
two decades. Our final guest will be Travis Garrison. Travis
grew up in the same county as Len Bias, Prince
George's county. Like Len, he played basketball at Maryland. Travis
was a term from two thousand and two to two
thousand and six. He has overcome two assault convictions and
(07:24):
now is using his platform to help people make better
decisions with his program called Think First, Make the Right Choice.
Chris Spetzler joins us now. Chris first tell us about
the Decision Education Foundation and its role in helping people
make the right decision.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Thanks Dave, So Yeah. I'm the executive director of the
Decision Education Foundation, and our mission is to empower young
people with effective decision skills that help them to make
better decisions and have better outcomes in life. And I've
got a couple of students that I've invited along this
(08:05):
session who are going to share how some of the
stuff that we teach has been important in their lives.
But in short, we're all making decisions throughout our life,
and our lives are very much built based on the
decisions that we make. You know, unfortunately with lend Bias,
he made a lot of good decisions in his life,
(08:26):
but what we know is that one bad decision really
made everything go in the wrong direction for not only him,
but for a lot of people around him and for
society in general. So if we can help people to
make better decisions, a single better decision can also be
life changing. And we don't always talk about things. You know,
(08:50):
don't do this, don't do that. What we want to
do is help people to understand how to make better
decisions so that they can make better decisions throughout their life.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Became aware of a def right after I wrote the
book about len Bias, The Boy Ready to Mix Legacy
of Len Bias, that came out in twenty eleven, and
that forms the basis of this podcast series. I was
out and selling the books at a lot of Basket of
youth basketball tournaments and other events, and often people would
(09:22):
come up to me and say, Hey, that's a great story.
I'm glad you wrote the book, but what are you
doing about it? I mean, it's a hard story, it's
a tough story, but where's the good that's coming out
of this? Then? I realized at that point that yes,
this story comes down to lend did make a bad decision,
and how can I talk to people about making better decisions?
And I discovered your foundation, Chris, Can you give us
(09:46):
an overview of the technical aspect of making the right decisions?
Speaker 6 (09:52):
Yeah, So we know that just say no doesn't work.
What we need to do is help people to think
to about their decisions. And we also know that human
beings are not completely rational and that there are decision traps.
We want to think about how we can make better decisions,
(10:13):
and one tool that we have in that sense is
something we call the decision chain. And it's a chain
because it's only as strong as its weakest link. And
the links of the decision chain are values. What it
is that you want in your decision, alternatives, what it
is that you can do, Information, what it is that
you can know, And because the future is uncertain, we
(10:38):
also have to be able to think about probabilities. And
that's where sound reasoning comes in, where we can identify
the alternative that gets us the most of what we
want our values, given what we can know the information.
So those are four links in the chain, and one
(10:58):
other important link is commitment to follow through, because if
you just make up your mind but you never do
anything about it, that's not a quality decision. So I
think we all have personal experiences where we know we
didn't follow through. And the final one is the frame,
What is the decision that you're making. And I would
(11:20):
think that lend Bias when he made that choice to
use cocaine, was not aware that the frame included the
possibility of death, and so he fell into a decision
trap because his frame was too narrow. And if we
can help people to understand how to improve their framing
(11:43):
of a decision or strengthen their chain links the ones
that I just went through, just having that as a
checklist is something that can take us out of a
situation where we are being mindless, make us much more
mindful and able to go through a rational process, slowing
(12:05):
us down, keeping us from making big mistakes. What we
would like to do is to have these skills and
have them be practiced to the level that they do
come naturally.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Chris, can you mention? Can you talk about who Zach
and Ben are and how they benefited from their experiences
with a decision education foundation?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Yeah, so Decision Education Foundation works with schools, and historically
we've also had classes that we've taught through Stanford pre
Collegiate Studies, So we had high school students that came
to Stanford and Ben took the Stanford course and Zach
was involved with a charter school up in Oregon where
(12:50):
DEF was a part of the curriculum. Zach overcame some
significant challenges and he'll tell you a little bit about those,
and then has really been great about creating opportunities for himself.
And he's an entrepreneur down in Los Angeles, and he'll
tell you a little bit about that. But of course
(13:11):
entrepreneurs have to know how to take appropriate risks and
risks and uncertainty. That's the kind of stuff that DEEF
helps people to understand. And especially with the teenage brain
being what it is, we know that the prefrontal cortex
of young people is still growing in and the hot
(13:33):
center of decision emotional decision making is the amygdala, and
we got to be able to help them to navigate
a difficult time until their rational decision making becomes stronger.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Let's start with Ben. Then you talked about entrepreneurship. Ben,
can you tell us what decision you were facing.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
The most recent and probably the kind of core decision
I made was deciding to leave post secondary university before
I finished graduating to actually pursue the startup venture that
I'm working on now. I had already dabbled in entrepreneurship
and kind of had been exposed to know what entrepreneurship
(14:20):
was and how it was a tool to be able
to solve problems, and going into the University of Oregon
my freshman year, made the decision, you know, coming into school,
if I have the opportunity to go after building a company,
That's what I'm going to do. Whether that happens while
I'm in school or after the fact, that was my
whole focus. So going into my junior year of college,
(14:41):
I had been working on a project with my brother
and essentially the platform we were working on was helping brands,
small boutiques, retailers get visibility when it comes to building
their brands. And with that that kind of gave me
a a foundation to be like, Okay, this is something
(15:02):
that I feel passionate about and I want to move
forward with and kind of, you know, put more effort
into it. Because when you're juggling school and trying to
build a startup, it's you know, you have to choose
one or the either, because you can either end up,
you know, chasing two rabbits and catching either. So that
was the decision that I had to make, was you know,
(15:23):
am I going to take the time to finish out
the senior year of my college experience or am I
gonna step away from school and put one hundred percent
of my focus into this startup. And the reason that
decision was big is because in the world of you know, startups,
and specifically our our platform being a tech platform, it's
all about speed's market. So within that decision, you know,
(15:48):
the frame obviously was like, okay, am I going to
step away or am I going to continue school? But
I really had to assess my own values in terms
of who I am and where I wanted to be,
and also think about the alternatives whether or not, you know,
education could be something I could pursue further down the line,
or if this opportunity would be something I could pursue
(16:10):
further down the line. So with all those things, in
having that framework of thinking about how I should think
about making this decision, they gave me clarity as to
know bet on myself and kind of pursue my own
sense of purpose in striving to build the startup that
(16:33):
I'm working on today.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Chris, as you remember the process with Ben, what areas
did you focus on within the decision chain or did
you use all of them? Was one more important than
the other in his decision process?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Well. One of the things that is impressive about Ben's
story is that while he was at u Ofo, he
got this startup going with his brother, and they had
it in an accelerator and they were already having success
before he made the decision to switch. So in addition
(17:08):
to being a student and also working to get through school,
he on the side started up this business concept and
only made the decision to jump once it started to
prove out. So he had limited the uncertainty and he
didn't just jump right at the beginning. He got started
(17:30):
and made sure that there was progress.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
And that's really part of why making that decision became critical,
because I was doing so many different things and seeing
the potential in what we were trying to build, and
also juggling responsibilities and commitments, especially with school. So with
(17:54):
those two things, the framework kind of allowed me to
balance who I was my values and also really gave
me a way of understanding how to parse through the
options that I did have in terms of aligning what
(18:15):
I was committed to, and then of course the chain
of commitment and follow through. It's a tough decision to
say I'm going to leave school. You know, it doesn't
make your parents it's extremely happy. You know, some professors
are against it, others are you know, supportive of it.
But you kind of have to take in all those
(18:36):
perspectives and then decide for yourself what you're going to
follow through on.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
You mentioned your frame, and you mentioned your values. How
did you define your frame within this decision and what
values were you focusing on in this decision?
Speaker 8 (18:50):
So I'd say the frame was really I've gotten this
far in college, but I'm seeing success how happening within
the startup we're building. And you're a human and you're
limited in terms of how many hours in the day
and energy you have to commit to anything, and if
you split that too far, then neither of the things
(19:14):
that you're splitting your time out against really ends up
you know, making progress. So that was the frame, you know,
how do I optimize my time in the way that's
going to be the most meaningful meet or meaningful for
me moving forward. And really my values have always been
(19:35):
centered around one helping people and then two a natural
kind of inclination towards entrepreneurship. So my intention going into
college the first weekend that I ended up on campus
in my dorm, I sat in my room that whole
(19:56):
weekend and decided, you know, why was I in school?
And the reason I set out for myself was to
develop a skill set around, you know, communication that would
be able to help me in any field that I
chose to do, whether it was building my own company
or going into an industry post college. And then also
(20:18):
making connections, but within those two things, gearing them towards
you know, the direction of eventually starting my own company,
because that's something that I always wanted to do given
my history, my background, and who I am. So those
(20:41):
two things, i'd say kind of encapsulate the frame and
the values.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Chris, can you explain what your role and decision Education
Foundation's role was with these two young men? Where do
you step in?
Speaker 6 (20:57):
Well, so, in both cases, the training that Zach and
Ben had was several years prior to these particular situations
and I think we gave them a platform and a
foundation to be clear about their decisions, and it became
(21:20):
something that became more of an unconscious habit. And so
both Ben and Zach are individuals that stood out in
those classes and kept in touch.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Zach, tell us about that program you involved with where
you were introduced to decision making.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
I was a junior in high school when I met
Chris and the program, and I believe it was it
was either a world studies class or a governormics class.
And I came to recognize I had been diagnosed as
being asked, as having asked for her syndrome when I
was a young kid. So I'd spent a long time
in therapy as a kid, figuring things out, figuring out
(22:03):
how to handle and make better decisions, just under different auspices,
as it were, with with thinking about cognitive distortions and
what and what do I value? What kind of friends
do I want to have at such a young age.
Everything it was under this It was in the same
vein as how to make a good decision, how to
how to do the right things that will benefit you
(22:25):
and make you happy without engaging in these these fallacious
thoughts that will lead you astray.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Tell us now about that decision. What what decision did you.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
Face Originally when when Chris and I first met, my
plan was to go to medical school. A lot of
things happened. Then my father passed away at a very
young age, and I met Ben and Chris at the
at the Stanford at the Stanford campus when the with
the pre collegiate institutes, and while while I was there
(22:57):
that that provided a nice break after losing my father,
But when I came back to try and be there
for my mother and sister and everything, it quickly dawned
on me that medical school is a large investment of time.
There has to be another way to help people. Was
lucky enough to shadow with a group of surgeons when
(23:19):
I was seventeen, but it was just it was such
a time investment, and after losing my dad at such
a young age, I really wanted to try and minimize
the amount of time that I was in school so
I could be there be around to see the life
events of my mother and sister and the rest of
my family. So that led me down to being to
(23:42):
explore the different alternatives in health care for what I
could be and I Eventually, Eventually, after a few years,
I settled on physician's assistant. The schooling is less, is
slightly less arduous, responsibilities are remarkably similar. I can still
help people and I don't break myself doing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
It, Zach, as you were going through the process, and
we've talked about the decision chain before, was there any
link in that chain that you thought as you were
going through the process with each of those links that
was most helpful. The information, the sound reasoning, the alternatives,
the frame and the commitment and etc.
Speaker 9 (24:26):
I think the creative alternatives and everything, because there's such
a wide breadth in the field of medicine with what
one can do. And one of my human anatomy classes
in college, the professor himself at the end of the
term start talking about like, it's not the end of
the world if you don't get the A plus you
want in this class. It really isn't. There are plenty
of other things that you can do, and he planted
(24:49):
those out. He created alternatives were the most important thing
for narrowing all of this down.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Ben and Zach, what were the more challenging aspects of
the decision making process? Was it actually a process that
you felt very natural with let's go with Ben first.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
Yeah, so I was gonna say I think the process
felt natural, But the kind of challenge probably was mostly
around the sound reasoning in the sense that, you know,
making the decision to leave school to focus on on
the startup. You know, I had to gauge a lot
(25:27):
of different people's perspectives. You No, it wasn't just a
decision where I was the only stakeholder in there. So
there's my parents, there's you know, my professors, there's friends,
there's you know, you know, so many people who've invested
in me to get to that point. You know, whatever
perspectives that I did get, I weighed them into the
(25:51):
alternatives and kind of you know, ways that I could
approach the decision. But ultimately, in that process, I realized
that that, you know, for yourself, you can't not every
decision you make is going to make everyone happy. So
you need to kind of balance your decision with you know,
optimizing it to have the best effect on the people
(26:13):
around you or the other stakeholders in that decision, but
then also you have to optimize that for your own
values and what you care about most, and kind of
getting to a place of you know, clarity and concrete,
definitive confidence and this is what I'm going to do
and I'm going to follow through on that.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So Chris Ben mentioned something about reasoning and there's the
head heart concept about making decisions. Can you talk a
little bit about that and how that plays a lot
into the chain? What are the links in the chain
that that the head heart most applies to.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Well, So we want a good decision to both make sense,
that's the sound reasoning, and feel right, and that's typically
the heart and the emotions. And sometimes our emotions and
our passions can run away with us and we need
to balance the head. And sometimes we are in a
(27:15):
situation where we're convinced that we know what is right
and we're going to do it no matter what. And
in fact, somebody that's sitting next to us can say, yeah,
I understand that you believe that you are logically reasoning,
but you may be missing out on the emotional impact
(27:38):
of others who are around you. Let me clue you
in on some of the heart aspects that you're missing.
So balancing head and heart. Some people are naturally leading
in their decisions with the head, and others are naturally
leading in the heart. And what we want to do
is we want to meet the decision where it needs
to be met. And if we're someone who's a heart
(28:00):
centered person and we're facing a financial decision, it's probably
time to reach out and get some professional help. And
if you're a logic person and you're dealing with a
relationship issue, maybe you need to reach out and get
help there as well.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Can you qualify the difference between the two? Is one
more important than the other the head of the heart
and it's got to be right in the middle.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Well, each decision has its own natural balance, and we
want to meet it where it is. So there's any
specific decision has its own correct balance, and that's where
we need to kind of work on it until we
(28:45):
have the clarity that Ben talked about. You know, if
if we have a balance of head and heart, if
we've got strength in all of the elements of the
links in the chain, then we can be confident in
moving forward recognizing that there is uncertainty and we could
have a bad outcome. But if we made a good
(29:06):
decision and have a good out a bad outcome, that
just means that we need to continue making that good
decision and until the probability stack up in our favor.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So that balance of head heart really is relative to
the individual I would imagine right the other.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
Not necessarily or so much the individual, but on the
individual decision. So some decisions are much more logic head
decisions and others are much more heart value focused decisions
(29:46):
and relationships. And so there's no one size fits all.
It has to do with what's the decision that you're facing,
and we need to test and make sure that it
makes sense on the logic and the reason and it
also feels right in the emotion and the values.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You talk about. I think the hip the hip tool
to determine how important something is. Chris, can you explain
what hip means in relation to decision fitness?
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, So the hip check is a way of thinking
about the size of a decision. So it is H
is how will things change? I is impact, so if
it's a small impact or a bigger impact, and then
the final one is P is permanent. So if something
(30:39):
is permanent, then it's not reversible and that makes it
a bigger decision. If it's a decision that we can
reverse and pay some sort of a cost to get
out of then that's a smaller decision. But you know,
if we think about len Bias, he made a decision
(31:00):
and had a permanent and terribly negative outcome. And I'm
not sure that he thought about how big of a
decision it could have been at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And within the context of lembias, also what had impact
on many others and how well things changed. It changed
a lot, So he certainly he wasn't thinking about that.
Zach tell us, now, what we're more significant a challenge
than the others within the shape, I.
Speaker 9 (31:30):
Would say sound reasoning and potentially commitment to follow through
and figuring out the reasoning behind why I wanted to
choose positions took a lot of time to narrow down,
and then the commitment to follow through. Applications to pa
MD nursing schools, they're all very strenuous and rigorous. The
(31:54):
m Cataloan I believe it's like a seven and a
half hour test. The gre is six. There's just there's
a lot. There's a lot to do when it comes
to applications. But that's just like pretty much everything, especially
when you're transitioning from high school to college. If you're
transitioning to a four year school out of the gate.
I know UVO and me wanted me to write an essay,
(32:18):
and that was shortly after I lost my dad. So
I managed, I managed to get through it, but ultimately
I ended up attending an alternative college.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
It's not what feels good but feels right, Chris. But again,
you're not gonna know it's gonna be a good or
bad decision until until you work through it. But it's
got to feel right, and that's a big difference, correct, Chris.
Speaker 6 (32:41):
Oh, sure. So people often will convince themselves that that
they feel good about a decision, but their logic is faulty,
and we want to make sure that we can slow
them down enough that they can go through the steps,
maybe the links of the chain, and think through whether
(33:02):
or not. For example, they have creative alternatives that you know,
they don't have to do something. It's not an either
or situation. There are often many other alternatives involved, Zach.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Did you find when you were you consider the commitment
part of this decision that you had to sort of
adjust your levels of commitment or your goals as far
as the commitment because you because of everything that was
happening in your life, maybe the time frame you're working in,
the frame now, the scope and how well it's going
to take. Yeah, I absolutely did.
Speaker 9 (33:38):
Originally I was going to exit university right out by
of the gate and then head right towards the A school.
I'm obviously not at p A school right now, but
I decided. I decided while graduating last year, during during lockdowns,
that I wanted to break and I wanted to work
for a little while and get a breather. It had
(34:01):
been a very taxing sprint is I guess the best
way to put it for the last the last four years,
and so I sent it. So I don't have any
plans right now. I'm just working at a group of
hospitals here in the area and getting experience that way,
(34:25):
and sooner and later I will likely go back to
school and start taking some more classes and then probably apply.
But I'm definitely not jumping to go anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
As I understand the decision making process and the front
and the decision chain. Part of the frame is you
want to see where you are five ten years from now.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
Well, it all depends on what you're trying to achieve.
I would think that you definitely want to be considering
five ten years out, what maybe not what you'll be doing,
but what kind of skills that you want to have,
because you know, life happens and there's uncertainly and sometimes
(35:07):
you need to be able to change your course. But
if you've got the right skills in place and the
right accreditations, you can you can move with it. Up
next on Lembai some mixed legacy.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And one person very familiar with those types of decisions
is Glenn Farrello, head coach of the boys basketball team
at Paul the Sixth High School in Fairfax, Virginia.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
And I think the most important part of that decision
making is you want to try to find a way
to not just talk out at them.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
You want to talk to you.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
I give them some information that they can actually think
about instead of being another adult telling them what to
do or you know, the pitfalls of life.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
I would think that this is the sort of training
that you want to work with the players off the court,
so that then when they're in that situation, they have
something that they can refer back to that they can
use in that moment.
Speaker 10 (36:03):
May able to get them to think clearly of what
their purpose is and their enthusiasm for what they're doing.
Then they're much more accepting of some of the decision
making decision decisions that they have to make on the board.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
For our next segment, we will talk with a former
University of Maryland basketball player who has overcome some profound
personal challenges and now promotes the importance of making the
right decisions. Garrison was two years old when Unbiased died.
Like Len, he became a top high school player and
chose to play US college ball at the University of Maryland.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It was one particular time when I did get in trouble.
I coach told us that we weren't allowed at the
bars to hang out. I used to, you know, drink
a lot in my room and then I'll go hang out.
In this particular time, you know, I was going through
stuff mentally, you know, coming off of injury.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So I just wanted to go hang out, and I
kind of went down.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
To the bars. And decision fitness is when you are centered.
Your decision state is as good as it can be
in terms of processing information, in terms of making reasoned judgments,
in terms of being clear on what your values are.
And there are plenty of situations where we know that
(37:16):
that has been impaired.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Definitely wasn't so minded. I would have handled the things
of that differently, So that definitely did a factor. But
I can't used as excuse me.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
This is Daven Grady, President of god Grady Media and
executive producer of this podcast series. It is with profound
sadness that I inform you about a tragedy involving a
god Grading Media intern. Nzol Alvaranga passed away in early
June following an accident. He collided with a van while
(37:56):
riding his bicycle near his home in the Pesda, Maryland.
Enzo was a rising sophomore at the University of Maryland
majoring in journalism. His work for US focused on the
thirty four plus one campaign since the late spring of
twenty twenty one. As a volunteer, he helped edit video
and audio clips for our Lend Bias Legacy podcast production.
(38:20):
He also edited the audio and video clips for our
timeline promotion supporting the podcast. His work was exemplary. We
had hoped to help Enso earn a credit internship this summer,
but we were unable to do so. Typically he said
he wanted to help anyway. We talked Today before he
(38:42):
died about his role helping promote the podcast series. Interestingly,
due to COVID, I never personally met Enzo, but we
had lots of zoom and phone calls. He was a
wonderful young man, gentle, respectful, deferential, responsible and diligent in
his work. I met his mother and father at his
(39:06):
funeral service. When I told Enzo's father about his work
on the La Bias project, a smile came to his face.
He was very proud of what he did, he said,
as was everyone at Go Grady Media.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready,
The Mixed Legacy of Lembi's, published by Go Grady Media.
Speaker 8 (39:40):
The series is produced by Go Graded Media in partnership
with Octagon Entertainment.
Speaker 6 (39:44):
This segment was produced by Dave Ungrady and Don Marcus.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
It was written by Dave ung Grady and edited by
Don Marcus. The narrator was Dave Ungrady, with additional narration
by Jamal Williams. Technical production was provided by Octagon Entertainment.
Speaker 6 (39:58):
Production assistants was produced by Kevin mcnelty, Tino Quagliata, Lauren Ross, Georgia.
Speaker 8 (40:03):
Brown, Casey Fair, Jamal williams Kelsey Mannix and Enzo al Varna.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Matt Deherst is providing the social media assistance special thanks
to the University of Maryland and American University for providing inserts.
Speaker 8 (40:17):
The Decision Education Foundation is a content and promotional partner
of this podcast series. For more information, go to gogradymedia
dot com. This has been a production of go grading
Media and the Eighth Side Network
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