Len Bias: A Mixed Legacy - The Interviews - John Salley

Dave and Don interview 4 time NBA Champion John Salley who recalls his memories of his friendship with Len Bias from high school through the NBA Draft. John also discusses the impact Len would have had on the NBA and the actual impact his death had on the players and the league.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
He had it all before we talk about your initial
connection to Len.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
We have two main questions we want to ask everybody. First,
why is Len still important today in your mind? Why
is he an important story? Why is his Why is
Len Bias important today?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, lem Bias is important today, not just for his basketball.
He's important because he literally took the bullet no pun intended,
he did. I've never ever had anything to do with
cocaine ever. I've never been curious about it, but I'm

(00:45):
definitely not curious about it because of what happened to
my friendly buyers. It would be the dumbest thing in
the world for me to say, well, I've never done it,
you only live once, Let's try it. That's the dumbest
thing I could possibly do. So, in a word, his
death is made him like a modern He literally shows

(01:06):
athletes you don't have to be a part of pop culture,
you don't have to be a part of the drug culture.
You can have everything in the world going for you.
For you to think you want to do something that's
as silly as snorting one line of cocaine, you should
know better. And if you want to know an example,
what will happen to you this may happen to you.

(01:28):
So Lenny's important because he can show you that he
can be on top of the world one second and
then not a part of the world next.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Do you find yourself spreading that message in any way
to anybody, young people, friends, if they need it or not.
Do you find that your impositions to spread that message?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, I'm in a Lenny. Lenny changed everything for me.
I'm one of those people that used to believe, Hey,
you try it once, right, do that? So don't listen
to anybody else. Have your own experiences. After the death
of UnBias, which was the day after one of the
happiest days of my life, I understood how short lived

(02:15):
things were. I understood life is fleeting. I totally got it.
Never have to push me in a position to wonder
or do it again. I put my nose to the
ground and I try to become the best play I
could possibly be. I do have fun. I didn't smoke

(02:36):
a joint until I was thirty six years old and
I was playing for the Los Angeles Lakers, and it
was a month before we won the championship and I
only had two hits. That's how long it took before
I even smoked weed. I put nothing bad in my
body except food, and because back then I was still

(02:57):
eating flesh. Now I'm to row vegan, but I wouldn't.
I was, so he kept me without him being here
on the straight now definitely.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Do you find that you passed that message along to
other people in any certain situations or is all Is
it all a personal thing to you?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
No, it was. I would talk to some kids and
I would explain the greatness of Lenny Bias. I would
talk about how much taller and bigger Lenny was than
Michael Jordan when we were younger. I would talk about
how Larry Bird thought he was going to be able
to take breathers because he finally got Lenny Bias. I

(03:41):
knew that this guy was going to be the guy,
and I wasn't afraid of him. I'm not afraid of anybody,
but I wasn't afraid of because, you know, I kind
of shut him down a lot. I just thought, I
mentioned that you can do the research yourself, you know.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think there's a I think there's a lot of
video of that.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, there's a lot of it. Yeah, Because I'd been
with him so long and we were at five Star
basketball camp from fifteen and all the way through working
working as at camp counselors. So I've been around. I've
been around the guy while I always I always I

(04:19):
told him, I said we should go to college and
play together, and we were going to go to Maryland,
me him, Johnny Dawkins, We're going to be the Big three.
Before Lebron even knew you could do that, I was
doing it in college but left to Giselle. You know,
one of the times he told me the truth. You
got to figure that joke out. He told me that

(04:41):
I would I would have to play behind Ben Coleman,
and I didn't like that. So I, you know, wanted
to stay in the ACC. And Coach Krimage was writing
me handwritten letters, no punctuation, some in some incursive, some
in print. Very psycho. Now, him and Coach Feulntain were

(05:06):
really great to me. So I thought to be in ACC,
to go to a school that was great and academics
because I was really particular about being a student athlete.
Student first, athletes set second, and Georgia Tech pushes that.
And then Johnny Dawkins said, well, I heard I can

(05:26):
start at Duke, so we all agreed. You know, hey, lady,
you stay in and Johnny Dalks I didn't want to
stay home. It's too much pressure, too many tickets, too
much stuff. So we all picked different places to be
in ACC and at that time, Maryland was a much
better team than all the rest of us, except you know.

(05:50):
In nineteen eighty three, I'm sorry, yeah, nineteen eighty three,
ACC cham play a tournament. We went three overtimes and
Judge de Tech beat Maryland, and I played, privately the best,
one of my best games in college, and mainly so

(06:12):
I can talk smack to let Bias, like, yes, I
like winning. It was my team. But at the end
of the game, I wanted to talk to Mac Deliney.
I wanted to be like, yeah, we got that buck.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
So did you did you bratch up against Leney in
that game? Did you do you play up against him?

Speaker 3 (06:30):
No? We had sometimes in parts of it. Yes. Uh.
My main objective was to give Bancomb into business and
smile at left to dusel.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
That's that's what my job was, is to be like,
you made a mistake. You shouldn't have told you boy that.
But by that time we were in New York City,
so you know, the sirens are part of you guys
may have birds there, we have sirens. Uh fifteen minutes,
I may add. So. Yeah, so I once in a

(07:05):
while went against him. I think it was really me
going against Ben Komen.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
Take us back to and we'll go sort of go
through the progression. Take us back when you met Did
you meet Lenny at five Star?

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah? I met Lenny at five Star basketball camp. One
of the craziest things was we were seniors and going
into our senior year in high school, and I was
a five star player and Lenny was, and so they
had us in a cabin. They had the rest in
this other cabin. But the waiters. They call us the

(07:41):
waiters because even though we were the top players, we
had to serve all the other campers. That was a
way of Godfinkls saying, well, I'm building showing you guys humility.
In other words, he didn't want to hire any waiters,
that's how lazy he was. So it was, it was.
It was a great lesson. My mother was a coacher

(08:03):
caterer here in Brooklyn, so I already knew how to
do the serving part. You know, I worked, say the
dinner is my whole life. So it's about dinners my
whole life. So I already knew what that was, and
I didn't feel it was a humbling situation. Work is work,
and even though we had the better rooms. But then

(08:27):
Godfigel decided, Hey, Sally biased. He called me, Sally, you
guys sit right here and make sure none of the
campers go back to the camp go back to the
cabins to make sure everybody stays here. Now, I'm a
security guard, but all my boys was sitting up in
the stands and I couldn't barely see the game. So

(08:50):
I said, Lenn, is big, no one's going I said,
you got this right, Lenny? You said yeah, yeah, go
sit with your boys, and I go and I sit.
The game is over, and all I hear is we're Sally.
He goes, I asked you to do one thing to
see if you would do it. You couldn't do that
one thing, but Lenny knew how to follow instructions. In essence,

(09:10):
he took away my fire star, gave me four and
a half put somebody else in my position, and I
vowed to get him back for that too. I did,
but Len Lenn was like, I try to cover for you.
I said, you went to the bathroom. I said, you
did this. So I've been with Lenny since then, and
that's when we had Billy Thompson was the number one

(09:34):
play in the country to some people, and Len Bias said,
I'm going against Billy today and I'm going to destroy him.
Lenny Bias was busting Billy Thompson's but so bad that
Billy pumped faked. Billy went in the air and he
cut Lenny's head and Lenny had to go get stitches.

(09:54):
I said, did you go into town to get those stitches?
He said, not before. I took Billy Thompson to town,
every skin out going to realize who I am. Now
that's exactly what his mentality was.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Was Buzz Peterson tell us the stories memories of land
at five Star playing against Michael Jordan's. Yeah, what do
you remember about those two matched up?

Speaker 3 (10:19):
I didn't go to that camp, that was. I missed
that camp because Lenny had gone a year before me.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Oh that's right, okay.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I think you got that picture in your book too, right,
Michael Jordan, yep, and a and a well developed Lenny
Bias who's a year young. Y Yeah, yeah, I'm telling
you he was a man at that age. He was
a man. We were seventeen years old and you can
tell yo, this dude is though Joe.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
Were in your recollection, did a lot of people already
know about him at.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
That point, No, they didn't know about him. He's very
he was introverted, really quiet, but he would show up
on the court. Never brag adocious, if that is even
a word. He never. He wasn't one of those people.
He would give you the business and that be it.

(11:13):
Like even if you were have chaired. Uh, he'd be like,
calm down, calm down. He didn't like that. He didn't
like all that high fiving jumping around. Calm it down.
He would always see Lenny be like, yo, chill, chill,
let's win first, you know. With and I don't know,
and I always said this, I don't know if it
was a DC thing because Adrian Dantley same exact way.

(11:39):
He didn't want all the hoop lie. He just wanted
to He didn't want to embarrass people. He wanted to
give you the business and be on so that Lenny
was bigger than that. And then you know, Lenny and
I I don't know if I'm running through, so I'll
let you go. But but that was that was I
would go eighty two going into going into cor happy

(12:01):
that we're both going to the ACC. Me him and Johnny.
I said that wrong, Johnny Dawkins, Lambias and myself. So
one of the things that we did we said, yo,
forget the Big East because you know, Syracuse was brad.
It was all like, yeah, hey, we're coming to get you.

(12:21):
You should be happy. Saint John Louke, count of Second
wanted me, but he didn't want me. You know. It
was all at that whole Upper East Coast mentality, and
the ACC was football, and I remember saying, if we
go and turn this basketball around, we're gonna be bigger
than the Big East. I was right because that was

(12:46):
the year that my friend Lorenzo Charles was playing for
North Carolina State and dunked the ball and won the
championship for NC State. People now had to start paying
attention to the ACC, and I was so happy to
be going into this conference as opposed to the egotistical
people in the Big East. I really didn't like the mentality,

(13:08):
and a lot of people didn't, you know, thought I
was too skinny, or thought, you know, I don't know,
my grades were too good. I don't know. You know,
they used to guys coming in and having to have
tutors in their back pocket, and so I liked the
Georgia Tech. I went to a class to visit. I
don't to this day. I couldn't. I thought they were
speaking French like, I don't know what they were saying.

(13:30):
It was a physics class, and I told my mother,
I said, this is going to be the most challenging
thing I've ever done. But that's what I rather. I'd
rather be challenged than to be putting classes that put
you in remedial English and math classes and dumbing you
down and the ACC I know Georgia Tech was definitely
not about it. I know Duke was not about that.

(13:50):
I know Maryland well, I don't know Maryland, but I
know Duke and Georgia Tech was not really about you
coming in, just being an athlete, and I like that.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Did you keep in touch with Lynn throughout your college
years and if soul, did you have any conversations about
him transferring after his freshman year to NC State.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Do you recall that, yes.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
What did he say to you and what do you want.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
I don't even remember. Well, you know, my thing is
that if you leave, you got to miss the year.
So if you leave, you got to miss the year.
And it's better down here in the South, I'm telling you.
I was Kinson saying it was way better in the
South than being so close to it. And I said, Yo, man,
it don't snow, I said, it dis like that. I

(14:34):
bonically too, it does not snow, I said, And it's
not cold, and the women have more meat on their body.
You want to be down south, brother?

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (14:47):
But you know he would have been in a situation
playing not behind Lorenzo Charles, but yeah, behind Lorenzo Charles
by that time.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
And then h Jimmy V. He should have gone there
in the first place. But I think the picking of
Maryland the things he probably was promised by the universal
of Maryland, and you know, it's a fair thing. Leaving home.
I couldn't wait. Like I graduated high school, I think

(15:19):
on a Friday, on a Monday, I was in a
car to Georgia. I was out of here. I was
not going to be a statistic I was not going
to be in the daily news promising basketball player shot
in the head. Now that wasn't happening. I was getting
out of this mess and going down and starting my
new life. My mother couldn't say, my house, you gotta

(15:40):
do it my way. Would you leave my house, you
do it your way. I could not wait to get
out of her apartment. And that's exactly what I did.
And I came back to visit I think four times
in four years. That was it for four days at
a time. I was not trying to be here. So
I do remember that I thought I thought he felt

(16:03):
it was too close to home. He wasn't. He wasn't growing.
But I would stay in contact with him all time.
Like I got in trouble a couple of times at
Georgia Tech because I had teammates who with snitches better
known as bitches. But I would after we played Maryland,

(16:25):
everybody go to sleep. I'm out. I'm on the University
of campus with Lenny, and no one is saying anything
to me wrong because I'm with Lenny. And I would
always be with Lenn. And then I'm gonna just speed
up through. We were at nineteen eighty five. We were
in Hawaii, and we beat him in Hawaii. We we

(16:49):
won in Hawaii, Hawaii tournament, and I played really well
against him because I'm so much, so comfortable playing against Lenny.
And in the summertimes, I don't know if it was
a lead. I do know it's illegal, but the university,
I mean, but Boston Celtics would have us come to
their camp and they say we were counselors and they

(17:11):
would pay us one hundred and seventy five dollars. And
I don't remember seeing any kids, but I remember playing
and uh we was in and we were playing against
grown men, so I guess that was them checking us out.
Mike Brown was there as well. But then that's when
you know, Red came and whisker and whispered in my

(17:32):
ear and said, Sally, I'm going to take you. You're
going to be a Celtic. I know your whole life
you wanted to be a Celtic. And then after my
junior year, he said that I was the number one
pick and they put that in the paper and everybody
was on me. And he was so smart because it
was taking eyes as many eyes as he could away
from Lenny.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
So well as you heard it, had you heard of
that time? That how passionate? What was about Lenny.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, we were. We started going. We started going to
Boston in Massachusetts. Our junior uh. He went his end
of the Southball. I went my junior year, going into
my senior year. Lenny had been the year before too.
And I mean as I kind of met Kevin McHale

(18:22):
at this camp. And when I went to visit, you
know this one lawyer told me. I mean I was
allowed in the Celtic black room. I literally thought I
was going to be a Celtic. So after this all happened,
we go and I'm warming up and I see Red

(18:43):
aback and I go over to him because none of
the vet to a round. I go, Man, told me
you were going to take me. You got me wear
of this red white blue I supposed to be the
green white. He goes, Sally, I had to take Come on,
you know I had to take it. Let you would
have take it. I go, You're right, I would have
taken Lenny. God rest his soul. But he's Tony Mashenberg

(19:07):
became my teammate on the Toronto Raptors. I followed Tony
on social media. He keeps he he will not let
anyone And I'm glad it's this way forget about the
greatness of my friend l Bias, even to the point
we would play Boy All Americans together and they had
us situated sit in different places and if you see it,

(19:30):
I go, no, I'm sitting next to Lenny. I'm standing
next to Lenny, and then Johnny Dawkins on like we
was not not going to be next to let me
And it was serious. Dale Curry's father, Dale Carry Steph
Curry's father was also a Playboy All American and you

(19:51):
know they can't do things well now it's called illegal.
But they took us to a bar that wasn't a bar,
and Lenny and I sat there and watched these guys
drink like fish. And he was like, I'm gonna bust
if we play against any of them. I'm busting mat.
But I already know. Look at that dude's an alcoholic. That
guy right there, you can tell he can drink.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Sorry, this was why you were still in This is
why you were still.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
In high school. This was no when we played Boil
Americans going into our senior year. Yeah, it was. It
was cold in Chicago. Well it's always cold in Chicago,
but it was it was. It was nippy whenever we
took the picture.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
Can you tell when you and Lenn would socialize, what
would you do? What kind of how would it be
fun for you guys?

Speaker 3 (20:45):
One, Since he was quiet, he didn't think he he
didn't think he was particularly handsome. I didn't think so
highly of myself either, but I had a really good
gift of gab, and so we were mostly quiet looking

(21:06):
at the cute girls. Uh. I stood by him because
I didn't want him to be alone, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (21:11):
Now?

Speaker 3 (21:12):
You know we would talk about man. Yeah, he was.
He was big into making sure his body was cut.
And then going to a senior year, you know, people
started looking out. He had crocodile shoes and as we
would say, shot skin suits, and he had a had

(21:33):
a gold rope on his neck and the braik and
the bracelet. You know, he was he was his gear
was looking better, you know what I'm saying. So he
was becoming more and more confident in who he was.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
If we could go on thathing, then I want to.
I'm gonna read after we talked about this, a quote
that Jeff Baxter had about when Len did a shot
against you, and again that Jeff really remembers us, but
we'll get to that. His last year, according to public
test some money. During Tribble's trial Brian Tribble's trial, it
was revealed that Lenz started using cocaine at least a

(22:05):
year before he died. His teammates except for one, have
any recollection of him using cocaine. Uh do you did
you have any concern? Did you? Did you did you
see it? Did you did he talk to you about
it at all?

Speaker 3 (22:22):
The reason I don't believe that is I think Ray
I think what he did with Rayfer is the dope
dealers did it with all of us back in the eighties.
You know they would They would make sure we have
money in our pocket. And the one dope deal I
knew had had a basketball team, so in the summertime,

(22:45):
but after my career, after I finished at Georgia Tech,
we would go to d C and play these games.
I played against that kid Graham that played from Georgetown.
Uh right, we were oh and play these games, and
the dope dealers would better on these games. But I
would leave with three thousand, three thousand dollars for the game,

(23:07):
which was to this day it's still a lot of money.
So I know rayferl probably was taking care of him,
taking you know, buying them clothes or making sure money
was in his pocket, letting them drive his cards.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Taking care of taking care of Lenny. You're taking care
of who taking care of Letty.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Taking care of Lenny. I think that's I think that's
the connection with Rayfer, the one who supposedly gave the
line of cocaine that wasn't cut with anything that was
pure cocaine.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
You're talking about Rafel Edmond.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yes, sir, okay, So I don't know that for sure,
but I know when you have the dope dealers around you,
that's what they're doing. They make sure and the ball
players are taking care of you know, don't don't getting
away of the ball players. You may hear some money. Man,
you're looking bummy. Go get yourself some clothes. Man. You can't.
You're gonna be a pro man. You can't look like that. Now,
you got to dress the part.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
It's mainly sort of clarify. You're not sure that Len
was getting money from him. You just think he's because
everything he was getting the clothing, yeah, he was.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Getting it from somewhere, because we both were broken. So
I couldn't get a pair of crocodile shoes until I
graduated and had money to go get them. And that's
when I got them from Freeman. And I used to
tell them. I used to tell them down to Freeman.
As soon as I get my first NBA tech, I'm
calling you, send me these shoes. And I didn't know

(24:24):
you didn't get your first NBA check until November. There's
a lot they don't tell you, so I would I
would only tell you that I would think that because
that's how things were in the eighties. The crack wars
were starting, and in our neighborhoods, the pimps or the

(24:45):
dope dealers got the money, and if they're looking out
for you, there's no gangster causing any problems.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
So to put this in context and time context, if
if if Edmund were actually doing this, this started before
were his senior year or during his senior.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Year, before a senior year, and he said this is
this is the other thing. The reason I don't believe
Lenny got did cocaine or got high is because he
was so into being in shape, right, like part of
the reason I guess I'm a psycho to this point, now,

(25:22):
is His whole thing was, yeah, man, you know all
these guys want to go to the club. He said,
get your body right, then you can do everything later.
And the fact that that year, I guess that was
October when we were taking the pictures for Playboy all
Americans in Chicago at the Drake Hotel. I remember exactly

(25:43):
where it was. He was so against alcohol. Now it's
kind of hard to be okay with cocaine, but against alcohol.
And he was so about, I'm getting out of here
and I'm taking care of my family. So he was
really because I just can't see that he was dipping
and dabvin pleasant. I knew his girlfriend, and I know

(26:06):
she wasn't get high, and that's usually what happens when
you're around a girl that gets high.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Speaking of girlfriend, another thing I'd like you to confirm
if you could, and I write this in the book.
If you read that last section, he apparently has a son.
And there's a woman named Tina Maynard who gave birth
to a boy two weeks after Lenn died, and a
couple of people, a few people have confirmed this. People
in his family of one of his teammates, Phil Nevin,

(26:33):
who wasn't much of a factor on the team, but
he remembers seeing meeting her actually, but no one, none
of his other teammates knew about it. Had you heard
that Lenn had a son or a print press or
a woman that and this woman was claiming she was
hanging around his apartment, you know, every now and then
and saw him use cocaine. So that's another mystery. So

(26:54):
that that's it.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Now.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
I don't know how much you were talking to him
during his last year a senior in college, but that's
when she became pregnant, I think in September of that year.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
So I thought that a sorry, now I don't I don't,
I don't know, and I didn't hear that. I know
Maryland who was wind up being on BET. What's our
last name? Maryland Webb uh Rose.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
Was one of has been uh classifer identified as one
of his close girlfriends.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
This one used to be I think that name was Natalie.
Would I remember hearing that name? Yeah, we talked to him.
It was a hole star BT at this start.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
We talked to Miriam Lege who was a very very
close friends and they had a spirituality connection, uh, the
Christianity connection. They talked about their spiritual spirituality a lot.
Did you see that and let as well his spirituality
come out.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, he was a god on the court. Brother, he
was a god on the court, God Jesus and the
devil guy there he was. He was the Holy Trinity
on your ass. That's what he was.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
That is one of the best best quotes to be
had for this. That's hilarious.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
Let me ask you just to follow up on Dave's
question about this woman and his son. Do you do
you do you think he would have shared that with
you if fed had you know, or do you think
that there was this like Dave Dickerson, who was a
freshman on that team said, by that point, because he
didn't have the same relationship as you did with Lam,
he said, by the time he was a senior, he said,

(28:55):
he almost had a different you know, it was almost
like he was living in almost like a double life
kind of thing, like he would go, guys wouldn't know
where he was.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Did you get a sense.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
At all that that there was other things going on?
Or do you think you would have found out if
he you know, if he had gotten a girl pregnant,
if he if he if he was going to be
a father.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah, I think I think you're right. He would have
been very quiet about it. He would have been He
was quiet anyway. And like I said, it was at
a point where all of a sudden, the more and
more popular became, the less ugly he became to so
so many people, Like a lot of people used to,
you know, call him muggy. Too many teeth in his mouth,

(29:42):
he had that big chrome head, looked like a raptor.
You know. It's so many things, you know. And I
snapped all the time, And so I snapped and make
jokes all the time, and he would just sit and laugh.
But he was quiet because he was insecure a lot
about his look. So imagine the more they're writing about you,

(30:02):
and the more they're telling me how great you're gonna be,
and how much money you're gonna make, girls start seeing you.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Like.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Girls don't go for looks. I tell people all the time,
they go for power. Girls are attracted with power. The
more powerful you are, the more attractive you are. So
the more and more power he became, the more people
will write about him, the more they would pat him
on his back and treat him like he was the
next coming you know that if you haven't had it before,

(30:31):
it's gonna wear art. And I don't think he would
have told anybody that this girl said she was pregnant.
And I don't think the girl would have said anything either.
I'm gonna be honest. You don't want to piss anybody off,
and you, you know, especially say hey, you know, let's

(30:52):
keep this quiet. It's so much quiet, and I think
it wouldn't it wouldn't have benefited her now with social
media people you when they got an ingrown toad then,
So it's entirely different mentality back then, and Lynn would
have been not saying this happened, but the type mentality
had would have been like, hey, chill, you just keep

(31:14):
it like that. We'll find out everything. I take care
of everything, but there's no reason to blow up the spot.
And the girl knowing that too. Also, as my father
told my brother one time, we need to get a test.
Women lie too. My brother was like, they do.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
Interesting. Interestingly, the woman tells me that they asked for
a DNA test from the family and they refused, and
it was confirmed by other members of her family, so
she made an attempt. According to her and her family
members that they wanted a DNA test put the buyers
from me didn't want to do.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
It, so that means one of them would have had
to give their blood up. But his brother winds up
being killed after that as well. Four yes, yeah, yeah,
so yeah, and this is funny. Well i'll tell you.
I'll tell you this one thing. So I got accused
for this girl saying I got her pregnant, and I

(32:19):
just won my second championship. So it's nineteen ninety one,
and it's all over the paper. I'm in New York.
I come back, it's all over the paper. I go
and and I have to deal with it. The baby's born,
I take the DNA test. It's not mine. Paper never

(32:41):
writes it. No one wants to hear that story. Yeah,
good point. So it's it's not it's not fair on
this side. And two, just just because she felt that
this was whatever, if she would be honest and say,
how many lovers did you have? While having lovers? Why

(33:04):
you were love it Lenny? And then she said one
or two that answer as hell, No, I'm not giving
you any DNA. You're just shooting in the dog wishing.
This is Lenny. I don't know I can't talk for
that woman. But I have this thing. I wind up
getting the custody of my daughter, that is my daughter
from my mother, and I'm one of the only men
that ever do that. So I have a thing about

(33:26):
people who try to take advantage of you or try
to get a piece of me.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Fair enough, Okay, Baxter talks about he would you they
were playing you guys, and all right here, so this
is Boxler talking. They were playing against you guys. He
didn't say what year it was. He says, I'll never forget.
We were playing Georgia Tech. I believe it was a baseline.
I was believe it was the baseline.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
And it was.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
He was in a shooting right hand and John Sally
came to block and he was near his right hand.
Lenny switched to his left hand and shot with his
left hand. Red Orbach took his hat off and threw
it and they had to stop the game because it
went on the floor. It was the craziest thing.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, see this is I'm glad back and said that
I was so knowing everything because you know when you
watch Lenny. Just to let you guys know, I'm not bragging,
but I won one on one at fire Star and
people were wondering how you would do that one because
you're only allowed to take three dribbles and we knew fundamentals.

(34:32):
But and coach Krimins came to recruit. He said, one
of the things I saw you do wasn't you're on
the left hand side, you did a left hand layer
and on the right hand side you did right hand layer.
Lenny would talk about being able to use both hands,
being able to drink, dribble, play defense, jump, shoot, hit
a foul shot, he said, hit him, hit a foul shot.

(34:55):
It's free. I mean, he was so like being able
to do anything. You gotta be able to do everything
as a ballplayer to call yourself a total ballplayer. So
what I remember that one move? No, but I do
know he can shoot what he was able to shoot
with both hands and that was important to him to
not be stopped.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Okay, barn Storming tour. Were you on the tour with him?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Okay, what are your fun memories of that trip?

Speaker 3 (35:25):
I didn't get paid enough. I was knock Carolina. I
remember we have one with Mark where Mark Price went
to one and Lenny was like, yo, man, you can
make like thirty thousand dollars on this. They didn't want
to pay me, No, thirty thousand dollars. They gave Lenny
all the day our money. That's what I remember he recalling.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Do you recall how much he made that that during
that tour? Did you tell you I.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Think he was making seventy game? Wow? Yeah? Can you
imagine nineteen eighty six, seventy guys in NBA wasn't making
that regularly in games? You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Did he tell you that or he just's what you're guessing.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I'm guessing I got thirty five hundreds, okay, and not
that he was that much better than me. Now I'm joking,
but I think he was. But I would think that
Lenny was getting at least above five thousand. I would
say seventy five.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Mike Sumner, who ran the bone Storming tour, tell some
pretty good stories about Hewlen interacted with the fans and
the and the people, and how much fun and how
relaxing it was. Do you recall him interacting very comfortably
with the fans and staying after and sunning autographs things
like that that took.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Mike explains, well, I think yes, because I think that's
mainly the reason I get so many accolades to this
day about being a nice guy is we both love
Doctor J. And they say Doctor J would not leave
to he signed the last autograph and did the last interview.

(37:08):
And I think that was another thing when we would
hear guys not going to say any names. Patrick Ewing
doesn't like signing autographs or being around people. Uh, Lorenzo, Yeah, yeah,
so I hear and I didn't like that. I think
I think it's disrespectful. At that point, it can't hurt you,

(37:29):
and it only helps you when people want to pat
you on the back and tell them you bought them
joy where that Hey, I know John Thompson got into
those guys heads, but that's that's the Big East for you.
A bunch of assholes.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Uh, this will be an interesting segway. Then Chris Washburn
tells us that Lenn introduced him to cocaine on the
barn Storming tour. Len wasn't on. Chris wasn't on the tour.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
But I can stop, I can stop you right here.
Not true. Chris Washburn is a liar. Chris Washburn had
been doing drugs since high school. Chris Washburn was at
Laurenberg Prep. The reason I noticed because Gil Reynolds, who
was my summer league coach here with the Vanguard Oilers,
always wanted me to go into Laurenberg Prep. Laurenberg Prep

(38:18):
was a school was for kids who got in trouble
or wasn't the greatest at school, and so it was
keeping him on the straight. Now, now, Len Bias and
I are outside of the Grand High Hotel here in
New York City on Lexington and forty second Street, not
going anywhere, just watching people, people watching. We didn't see

(38:40):
Chris Washburn getting out of his car with some girl
and he was already high. This is the night before
the draft. And he didn't say anything that Lenny like, hey, Lenny,
come to me, not at all because we didn't know
Chris Washburn. We didn't know him well. So maybe the
cocaine he was has a thing to do with memory,

(39:02):
because that's not how it happened. Ledby has had nothing
to do with introducing Chris Waspurg, who was at North
Carolina State in this in cocaine. It's funny that people
that get high say that I was introduced to cannabis.
My brothers had done it for so long, sould it,

(39:24):
cut it, put it together, grinded everything. They stay away
from this, focus on your on your job, and I
go all the way through my job, retired, come back,
about to win my fourth championship, and a girl introduced
me to weed. Cocaine is a female drug, so I've

(39:46):
heard it's not a male drugs for all those guys
out there listening. It causes a record dysfunction, it causes death.
It makes girls happier. So I just thought, I let
you know.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
That, appreciate that insight. Uh well, just to clarify, you
knew for a fact that Chris was using drugs in
high school.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, how do you know that? Because everybody that went
to Laurenburg Prep was a problem. Remember that's the same
school that the Goat went to, the high jumper from
here from home, the high jumper, the kid that can
dump the goat that I just escaped my mind.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, done, done, okay.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Right man, Right, he went to Laurenburg Prep. He had
a cocaine problem from here in Harlem. And that's how
it is. You know, you go to the school and
you dry you out. So I don't know for personal
because I don't know Chris Washburn except from playing against
him a couple of times of being drafted in the
same draft. I don't know him, but I know I

(40:58):
know this. I was with Lenny outside of the High
Hotel and it wasn't like they knew each other. So
if they didn't know each other, then they would have
they would have been more cordial. He didn't act like
he knew him at all. We were just like the
night before the draft and he got a bad one
and he sat there and told us about his car.

(41:21):
I never forget this. Chris Washburn was like, he I
already got my car. I said, what you get? He said, man,
I got a Mercedes Beans with a Rose royceteria. And
I looked at Lenny and I go, that's the dumbest
shit I've ever heard in my life. The Mercedes vendetaria
is enough. Why would they take the material out of

(41:41):
a Rose Royce and put it into your Mercedes? How
much they get you for him? One hundred thousand dollars.
I was like, you gotta be on drugs, and I
was admittedly he was.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
He was on drugs.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah, I was right, And and Lynn would sit around
and left because Lynn didn't say he knew this kid,
or act like we knew, we knew we were all
in acc right, But it wasn't like they were buddies,
pals and best friends. I didn't get that feeling. They
may have been hiding that too, But I'm telling you,
I've been around Lenny a lot. I was around him
a lot. I didn't and I've been around a lot

(42:14):
of drug addicts. So I hear not gonna say who,
but I so, I you know my whole life, and
I could tell, but I want to.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
I want to throw this to Doun soon to talk
about NBA and comparing Michael to what Len could have
been the whole thing, But a couple of things I'd
like to wrap up with. In your mind, who was
Len Bias when he was in college? As you knew him,
how would you describe him as a person as a player,

(42:43):
comparing him to other players? And as you knew him
as a person, how would.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
You who was he to you as a person? To
start with the most important part, As a person, he
was an introverted, awkward, sometimes socially awkward. It and he
didn't you know it's quiet, laid back all about basketball

(43:08):
as a professor, as an athlete, he was a menace.
I was not joking. He was a god, Jesus and
the devil all in one. He was going to give
you the business. And he was so intense about playing.
He didn't yell at people to point I say to me,
it was an all around great person. He that was it.

(43:29):
Now as a student, I guess part of the reason
to go to University of Maryland is you don't have
to do your schoolwork so much.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
I saw that coming. I am a merily grad by
the way.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
And I can tell by the way you spell.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Can you tell him I'm among the academic elite.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Uh? Actually I.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Do. I do appreciate you, and I did appreciate it.
And it's funny. He's one of the only thing. I
don't remember a lot about a lot of things. I
went to a jungle in Costa Rica in two thousand
and ten, nine or ten, and I did and I
literally cleared my brain out. So I don't have any

(44:20):
hate any I don't have as much hate as I
used to. I don't have any resentment, no guilt. I
left all at the jungle, So I don't remember a lot.
But when you mentioned lambias, it just clicks into a
part of my brain that I never forget. Plus I
had a lot of sports psychology psychiatrists, like my best
friend got murdered my second year in college, and they

(44:43):
taught me how to deal with that. And then when
Lanning got murdered, That's the way I look at it.
I had to deal with that. Now. Imagine I'm the
happiest day. Last thing he says is I see the
leads and I was like yeah, So he goes up.
I don't see him anymore. I'm then with my agent

(45:04):
at the time, and we fly to Detroit. My roommate
is Dennis Rodney again. He was my roommate in Hawaii,
so he's my roommate again. He wakes me up and
he tells me your friends on the news. I said who?
He said, the guy you we was sitting next to
at the draft and then I hit the news. So
I had to deal with having one of the happiest

(45:26):
days of my life to one of the saddest days
of my life and then get up and go do
media as if it didn't happen. So I was numb
the whole time, and then a week later, I'm staying
at Johnny Dawkin's house, going to the funeral. So it
was like everything was moving so fast that I didn't
get to literally take it all in because I was still,

(45:51):
you know, trying to be happy about making it or
being successful. But it wasn't as happy as I wanted
to be. Because Lenny goes number two, Johnny Dawkins goes
number ten, I go number eleven. So I just killed me.
It still does it bothers me to this day. That

(46:14):
and I love Michael Jorgan is my frat brother on
Make a Side Fire Incorporated. I've been with Michael, you know,
since nineteen eighty two, first time I saw him, first
time I met him. But I'm telling you would have
been an entirely different narrative. I really believe that. I don't.
I think Michael is the most fluid, slickest. We call

(46:38):
him black Cat. Black Cat is amazing. But Lenny was
six ' nine and he was going to the Celtics
and Larry Bird was going to play small forward, I
mean big forward, and kept McHale was going to play center.
Like I don't know what would have happened. I don't
know what would have happened, but there was no way
of benching this guy. I don't know if Magic would

(47:01):
have won any more championships. I think the dynasty would
have been amazing. Where they would have fit those guys,
I have no idea, but it would have happened done.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
If you could just wait a little more. Like a
couple of quick follow ups. You made a reference to
Costa Rica and in the jungle and maybe helped your head.
And it was the psycho psycho psychedelic drug treatments that
that that have become popular for PTSD stuff. Was that
part because if it is, it was lend part of
the reason for that that you had to sort of

(47:34):
get that out of your mind or your memory. Was
that was that affecting you?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
No, so you're talking about when they do araguasca and
d MT. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know. I went down
to do a show call. I'm a celebrity, Get me
out of here. I was in the jungle with Nis Dickinson,
and I would have never mind that it was to
deal with that or kill No, but we'll move on.
It's funny, you know you mentioned that because I did

(48:02):
do three years ago. I did do ayahuasca and it
does open your brain, but that wasn't mainly why I
did it. I went down to do a show, but
it was I literally had to humble myself. I'd been
riding a high horse too long and I had to
go down there and literally not have anything, no cell phone,

(48:27):
no contact with people besides people in the show. Like, literally, hey,
you're supposed to be all big and mighty. Now you
have nothing. Let's see how you deal. And so the
days it was raining, I got to sit in the
water and cry about the things I didn't cry about,
forgive myself for things I've done or shouldn't have done,

(48:50):
forgive others, and realize that, you know, life is fleeting.
So it took that twenty eight days for me to
grow up. A lot of people don't get to step
off the treadmill. I got to step off the treadmill,
and that's that was my blessing. And I didn't need
any drugs for that.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
That's cool.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
And just to let you know, those are not drugs.
Those medical medicine that was a plant a drug, right,
A drug is made.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
In fact, you saw the Real Sports special on that
about the psychedelic drugs and how they're helping people with PTSD.
If you haven't. It's all. It's tremendous. It's a great peace.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Uh. Finally, yeah, I definitely got PTSD.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
Okay, finally, before I throw it to don you talked
a lot about sort of cultural theme about the history
of black people in this country connected to slavery. Do
you find any profound cultural connections to Lend and society
today away from the drug impact of the drug laws?

(49:50):
Do you see his death affecting black culture in ways
that maybe people don't realize.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
No, I'm only saying that because it was almost forty
years ago, and it's a different, different world now. It's
a different world now, and I would have to sit

(50:23):
and think about that and answer that question. But in
the eighties, it was cracked and it wasn't an epidemic.
Now it's opioids and it's an epidemic, and opioids were
not in my community. Crack was, Uh, now opioids in
my community through rap music when they're crushing up pills

(50:46):
and putting it in drinks, making songs about Miley percocets.
It's it's it's a different time back then, you know.
Back then, you people fell into the drug game without
even knowing they were in the drug game. It was

(51:08):
it was it became that fast. It was almost like
zombies everywhere. Now you have to literally focus. If you
want to be a drug addict, then you have to
focus on it and say, I know, I'm I'm addicted
because it takes too much to get to it. So
that's the only way I can think about it. When
when I talk about drugs or cocaine or crack, and

(51:35):
I don't know if if enough people, I want enough
people to pay attention to how great Lenny would have
been or could have been. The only way I can
put it.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
That's okay, don all your spreading.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Yeah, thanks, Okay, I gotta go.

Speaker 5 (51:53):
Too. Uh when when when Lenn had sort of his
coming out at Maryland, whether it was the game you know,
his sophomore year. Uh and and Michael finished the game
with that cradle dunk or the or the or the
game you know where he led Maryland to the championship
and they hadn't done that under Lefty. Did you did

(52:15):
you say, oh, I knew this was happening. I mean,
did you did you did people like say to you,
I didn't know that guy was that good? I mean,
did you have to say I knew this the whole time,
or did he even surprise you at how his game
took off.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
No, I knew this is the craziest thing. I wanted
to go to Maryland so I could play with Lenny, period,
Like when he said, yeah, I'm gonna go to University
of Maryland Johnny Dawkins and I considered playing with Lenny.
That's how many people wanted to play you. It's like
playing with Michael. You know you're gonna win. You know

(52:52):
you're gonna win. There's not gonna be anybody out there better.
You know you're gonna win. You believe in this situation.
So No, I definitely know left to Giselle, you know,
running around, you know, like not knowing that was my
lefty impression. You knew you were gonna win. You knew

(53:17):
Lenny was gonna take it over. You knew it was
gonna get to that point. And it's funny you called
it to going out game to Lenny and to Michael.
It's just it's street basketball again. It just happened to
have fans and all I was like, oh, yeah, you
got me last time. I'm about to get thirty on
you this time. I mean it's that mentality. Uh yeah,

(53:40):
I just I just know. I don't think people are
going wow. I think they knew if you knew anything,
especially everybody out of d C. And that's another thing.
Lenny wasn't just playing for the University of Maryland. He's
playing for everybody in his neighborhood.

Speaker 5 (53:57):
How come they didn't win, you know, they didn't win
at a high level when he.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Was there because Georgia Tech was in the way. If
you if you, if you go and check, like we
played them in the championship in Hawaii, we beat him
in the ACC championship. We uh who else? They just

(54:23):
didn't have it. They just Adrian branched great, but they
had so many different people that felt they should take
the last shot or it should go through them. It
kind of gets in the way. Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
In terms of Michael, the comparison, you know, when when
he came out, when when when when Lynn came out?
Michael at that point, yeah, I guess he. I don't
even he got out of the year or his rookie year.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
And so what happened is when when when we got
into the NBA, I mean when we got into college,
Michael had already hit the shot off the backboard, right.
So the next year, Worthy wasn't there. We were freshmen, right,

(55:18):
and Michael was in his second year and then going
into Lenny and I and our sophomore year, Lenny takes
off and that was that big game against Michael. Michael
goes pro after that eighty four, right, So, and you
only get to play them two times a year something

(55:40):
like that, two or three times. So in North Carolina
was through Sam Perkins was really getting a lot of
a lot of the light. And you know, coach Dean
Smith was really in charge on who got to shine,
who didn't get to shine. So you never really got
to see Michael Joe and red line one hundred degrees

(56:04):
because he would always table him back.

Speaker 5 (56:06):
Right, you know. Yeah the line about team was the
only one to keep Michael under twenty points a game.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Yeah, definitely a lot. He must have a lot of
friends in Vegas. You know, when I.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
Covered I had covered Jordan and Bitton College. I had
worked in the New York area and done some stuff
with you know, Michael, when he came through, I had
not known, you know, Lenny Bias. I heard the name
when I and I just finished covering Chris Mollen and
and the Big East. You're you're hated Big East. And
I saw this guy and I said, you know Mullen,

(56:39):
you know he's a future Hall of Famer. And that kid,
he was a boy compared to Lenny. Lenny was a man.
And and and and when he came out, I said,
he's Michael with a jump shot.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
He's I said that. I used to say that. I
used to say this guy could suit it. And he
was three. It's just tall, right, I mean.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
He he reminded me of a big version of David Thompson,
just because of his so you know how you know athleticism.
His jump shot was beautiful. Do people underestimate how good
a pro he would have been because they just didn't
see the finished product? And and and you mentioned before

(57:18):
how it changed the narrative. You were part of that
narrative being with the being with Pistons. The Pistons became
the next sort of mini dynasty. If len Bias lives,
do the bad boys exist, do the do the bulls,
you know, have the three peats? Or does him being
with the Celtics change everything? Not to say you guys

(57:41):
wouldn't have won Chicago wouldn't have won, but it wouldn't
have been any kind of dynasty situation unless it was
the Celtics, if they had stayed healthy.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Let me tell you, Len biased in Boston changes everything.
It changes the way we ad had to worry. Not
only that was the dumbest thing I just said, but
we had Lattery, Parrish and kil dj danny A, who

(58:13):
else corn Bread. We had all these cats to worry about.
For them to have this monster of a of a player,
it would have It would have changed everything against the Celtics,
against the Lakers, it would have changed it all. And

(58:36):
people said, well, you don't know that, Yeah I do.
I do know that Even with it, Lenny wouldn't have
made a difference. Lenny was about winning and putting the
ball in the basket. When you look at guys you
start talking about a great score, you just got to
realize that this person can put a nine pound thing,

(58:57):
that's nine pounds around, that's nine inches of round into
an eighteen inch rim consistently, almost like second nature. And
he had no problem in sliding his feet and playing defense,
or going up and getting the rebound, jumping forty one
forty two inches off the ground and having muscles in

(59:19):
places most humans don't have muscles. So this was an
unbelievable specimen of a human being and to better guy,
and I think it would have changed everything. Do you
do you think that?

Speaker 5 (59:35):
I mean, because people say you can't compare anybody to
Michael having seen what you saw at five store, have
you seen what you're certainly accul he been what he
had been, the rival to Michael Jordan.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Yes, I think you really can't compare anything to Michael.
Remember they tried to compare Clyde Drexton and that pissed
Michael off, and Michael wanted to go at it. But
if you watched nineteen eighty four trials, he was doing well,
but so was everyone else. Len Bias would have been

(01:00:09):
in the same I guess image on the same same conversation.
People don't remember that Ron Harper before his knees were
bad and he had to have him operated on. When
he played for the Clippers, he was giving Michael Jordan
the business as well, that Ron Harper was like, these

(01:00:31):
guys were really really At this point, it just developed
that the NBA was looking for Messiah. I got in
trouble on ESPN for saying he said the greatest player
all the time, said were not of all time, maybe
of the nineties, and they wanted to crucify me because
I was truthful that in the nineties Michael was the best,
but not in the eighties, not in the seventies, not

(01:00:54):
in the sixties. In the nineties, from nineteen ninety one
to eighteen ninety five, Michael was the man. Then from
nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety eight, Michael was the man.
Then when he went to Washington, he no longer was
the man that period. And if people want to, well,

(01:01:17):
he was getting old. I don't care. Can't be the
greatest of all time, of all time and just delete
everyone else. I think it was it's a marketing scheme
by the NBA, by nineteen by ESPN, and it's good
they needed a messiah. But then it's one of my
favorite movies is The Ten Commandments and he goes, where

(01:01:38):
is your Messiah now? So anyway, where's your God now?
So it's just I don't some believe that. I just
don't believe that. You know, he's I think he's a
great I think he's a great player. I love everything
MJ is done. I watching score sixty three on us
and I was a part of it. I got twenty

(01:01:58):
of them. It's still my guy, but not of all time.
And I think if they would have had to split
it and you were allowed to let Lenny do what
he does, we see it differently. Hey think about it.
But nod King wasn't allowed to do everything he wanted
to either. But nod King is my favorite player period.

(01:02:19):
Doctor j is my favorite NBA player. But but nod King.
If I was to say anything from the streets all
the way through, it's but no King to me. I'm
a New Yorker. That's that's the way we go. We
could go with BK all day.

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Let me ask you one quick question. You mentioned Olympic Trials.
Did you were you? Did you go to the trials
in eighty four?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
No? No, okay, I never. I never was good enough
for them to say you should come represent America.

Speaker 5 (01:02:48):
Okay, because somebody told us or it was out there
at some point, we never could get it confirmed that
Lenn turned down the Olympic Trials. Do you know if
that is correct or not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
I wouldn't have known that, and I wouldn't be lead that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
Okay, all right, do you see did you see his
death related to Did it change your life related to drugs,
et cetera or kept you in a certain mindset away
from drugs. Did you see that affect NBA players the
way he died, How it affected their attitude toward abusing
drugs or anybody changed through life because of Lendine.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Yeah, I think I think the NBA changed this whole
mentality about drugs because of the way lent Biased died.
That for one of the up and coming stars to
die from a cocaine overdose from what was reported his

(01:03:43):
not having enough body fat and his heart blowing up
like shreds, it changed the NBA drug policies all of
a sudden. It was like, now there was more people
out looking for people who are getting high. There were
more guys going down and getting in trouble for it. Before,

(01:04:05):
as I understand that the NBA was said to be
too black, too drug infestive. Now they were cleaning it up.
They started getting more and more European players, and literally
they were testing crazy places for drugs. And some of
our favorite players or players that were putting on shows
were no longer the Michael Ray Richardson, who's played for

(01:04:27):
the next Now that I mentioned it, you know, you've
never heard his name until me saying it right now.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Rarely I remember it, but you don't hear much about it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Yeah, because the NBA is the best at erasing people's
memories and doing away with things that don't work well
with our product. Now that I agree with. If it
doesn't work well with the product we're trying to sell
and help these up and coming cats, if it's detrimental
to you and to the league, you should be eliminated.

(01:04:57):
So the NBA started going out with the right people
to find out who were doing what. They started having
meetings that were mandatory five thousand dollars out of your check,
ten thousand dollars out of your check if you missed
the drug meeting. I mean, the NBA jumped on it
that this is not going to happen. We're not going

(01:05:17):
to be known as a drug league. Leave that to
baseball and to help. How often were they having these meetings?
We have a meeting on every team they fly in.
Put it this way. Camp starts day two drug tests.

(01:05:39):
They're not even not even to the point where you
get the scrimmage drug tests. You in there, you take
the pictures, y'all happy, you go to the dinner tomorrow, y'all.
We're gonna start at ten o'clock, and then we got
another one starting at five point thirty. At nine o'clock.
Upeeing in a jar and they're watching it. There's none
of that here. Go behind the stall. They're watching you.

(01:06:02):
If they can get you to do it naked, they would,
they would. They were so serious about getting rid of
this drug.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Gad and to your knowledge, that wasn't happening until you started,
because that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Was it was. I remember one time we had a
meeting one of the players on the team. I won't
say his name, not fond of him. They made us
all get together and he said, hey, do you mind
if we sign attendance jock. The guy says yeah. He
passed it around and he goes, okay, everybody's here. He said,

(01:06:34):
I got one question. Do you guys check for marijuana?
He said no? Do you guys check for bear beer
and alcohol? Said no? He said, nice to meet you,
got up and walked out of the being. We laughed.
He really laughed because he knew he didn't do any
of those other drugs. But and if they're not checking
for those.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
Two very interesting. So this when you went to clarify
when you said they had people going out and sort
of looking to make sure there was a guy hors
Bomber was a head of security for the NBA. Then
if you remember him, he told you for the book,
if you recall that they had people going like investigators

(01:07:17):
investigating backgrounds of players before they would before they would
want to draft them. After that, did you see more
that's what you're referring to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Yeah, I'm telling you the NBA is is the best
when it comes to when it comes to literally find it,
like the like the NFL. They have you write this,
they have you take this litleus test and they asked
you this question. The NBA wants to know. They're going
to know who you hang out with. That's what he

(01:07:50):
might be the best person to ask if that baby
belongs to len Bias.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Well, actually he passed away. Unfortunately, Uh I forgot to
ask Himbout.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Yeah, but that would have been Horrace and it was
Horrace's boy, the light skinned guy who was with him.
They knew everything about everybody you don't remember has.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
No Actually, Horrace said he didn't know about lends drug use.
Yah know, he's he Clark. He didn't know it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
And that's what I'm telling you. There's no way Horace
would not have known. That's I'm being very serious. They
know everything that needs to happen. Because the NBA was
changing nineteen eighty four, David Stern gets in and tells
Michael Jordan we're going to change his league. And he did.

(01:08:36):
He did, he and they call him David Stern. I
call him the Don and I used to call him
the dawn in his face. I go, Don Sterling. Let
me ask you a question, Don Stern, Let me ask
you please. It's a little bit of bread for my family.
Let me have this neighborhood. You keep your neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
John, thank you so much. I enjoyed the time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
Appreciate it. Will be rich. Take care all.

Speaker 6 (01:09:05):
Right, Len Bias A Mixed Legacy. The interviews was produced
by Davon Grady and Don Marcus.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
He had it all strong.

Speaker 6 (01:09:17):
Quick and Len Bias A Mixed Legacy is distributed by
the Eighth Side Network.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Just for Greatness and loss.

Speaker 4 (01:09:25):
To let you known of all other memories, remember me
ho