February 26, 2024 • 55 mins
When Shannen began to experience hair loss due to cancer treatments, she decided to do it on her own terms.
That’s when she called her fabulous friend and model Anne Marie Kortright, and entrusted her with some scissors and an electric razor. Together they bonded over Shannen’s freshly bald head, and posted the experience on Instagram in hopes that others would feel less alone in their cancer journey. There’s nothing like a beautiful friend who’s always ready to remind you how beautiful you are, no matter what.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Dorney. Hello to
all my listeners. I am back with another episode of
Let's Be Clear. Today. I want to focus on the
concept of beauty and what that means to me. And
there's no better person to join this discussion than my
dear friend, who is stunningly beautiful, a model many things,
(00:24):
Anne Marie Courtwright.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I kind of wanted to first start with how we met.
Although I wasn't married to the person that I was
dating at the time, I sort of say that I
got you in the divorce. Yes you did. It was
it was like a although he'll argue he got me too.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I had to split my side. But I did get you. Yes,
I didn't give the other excess. I got you, right,
that's the thinking. Okay, So we met. I started dating
a guy. His name is Jason, and he lived in
New York. And we were dating I don't even know,
like a month or two months maybe at the most,
and he said, I want you to meet like my
(01:03):
best friend and his fiance, who I love. She's like
a sister to me. Can we, you know, meet them tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
For brunch for brunch and the East Villish and I
was like, oh god, no, I have to meet the friends.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You know, I was not into it. And then when
he was like, oh and she's a model, I was
like still, I was like, I know, thank you. I
don't need to be like the five to four girl
standing next to like a giants. Just not I'm not interested.
But it was important to him, and I was like, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Fine, that's the best decision you ever made.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It really was like I got up there, but it
was awesome. I think. I don't know. I mean, I
know how I felt sort of meeting you and hanging
out in that brunch and your your what's now your
husband was your fiance at that time, Scott, which I
can go into, but let's hear it from you first.
I love it for come on, just put it out there.
(02:02):
I mean, did you have any impressions? Like, I don't
know if you knew who I was as far as
an actress, she was Brenda.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
She walked in until there were some I'm like, oh
my god, is Brenda?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And then that was it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Then I called myself. You know, there's very very few
people that give me starstuck, and that was you. And
you know, usually you meet those people that you're kind
of into and you love watching them on TV and
you're like, oh I wish I didn't. It was the
different case with you, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Eighteen plus years later. I mean I wasn't even married.
I have a fifteen and a half year old, so right, yeah,
we're going way back. Yeah yeah, but we still look
just as good. Well you definitely did, that's for sure.
We get better with age. I swear you have not aged.
I mean, and that's actually a really true statement. I
think that you specifically have gotten better with age. And
(02:57):
we're going to get into this because you know, I'm
constantly asking you, like what.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Do I do? And it's because I look at you
and I'm like, how how does somebody's skin get prettier
and better? But before I jump in there, obviously I
went into that brunch a little trepidacious, and then I
met you, and there was like this sort of familiarity,
like immediately where I felt, oh, okay, I know this person,
(03:22):
and like an instant comfort a girlship and I don't know,
I don't think that's a word, but I'm now creating
a word, the girlship, because you know, especially back then,
at that point in time, girls were not always supportive
of other girls, and I was definitely used to that
being the case. And then all of a sudden, I
(03:43):
met you, and I felt like, oh, this girl's got
my back.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I think for the most case, I think in your business,
in my business. Then, you know, it was hard to
really make a bond with a new girl because you know,
you had to really watch your back. So when you
found that person in that connection that you knew like, wait,
she's a girls girls, and she's got your back and
it's real, you grab onto it. And that's how we
are still here.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's insane how much I think
women have sort of grown and evolved where we understand
that there's room for all of us and we don't
necessarily have to be as competitive, and instead we can
just support one another. And like with every job you got,
with every positive thing that happened in your life, I
(04:28):
was so excited, accelerated. Yeah, yeah, and vice versa.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I never understood not celebrating other women's anyone's achievements that
you care for. In general, I'm happy for everyone. There's
room for everyone, and I truly feel that way, like
I am genuinely happy for my friends. Even if it
was a model that was going up for the same
job as me, it didn't matter, you know. I'm like,
it wasn't meant to be, like and I still feel
(04:52):
that way. There is everything's meant to be. It happens
for a reason. And I think you really got to
see the real me back then, which a lot of
people I feel like don't know the real me. They
kind of judge me walking in the door, and I
have many of those stories. You know, a lot of
people like to judge you by just looking. And you know,
(05:13):
I used to be very reserved. I was bullied my
whole high school life, and I was always very guarded
and who I led into my life. But at the
same time, I always kind of knew when there was
that good person that I kind of wanted to add
to my core group of girls. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I've watched people gloss over asking you a question because
they assume that you look the way that you look,
that you're not going to know the answer. It's my
favorite thing. It's actually one of my favorite things too,
to watch to be a witness to you because you
are so incredibly intelligent and use intelligent and stupid. I
(05:52):
pay attention, You pay attention, and you're studied. If there's
something that you don't know about, you will do one
of two things. Either you're the first to be like,
I don't know enough to talk about it, or you
will educate yourself on.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
It, and then I'll come back and I'll be fully
informed exactly. And I learned that from my husband. I
have to tell you. I got to give him a
little credit. He always says, don't speak.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
If you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Just listen.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
You obviously know that your husband is one of my
favorite people I know. Like Scott and I bonded and
we still bond. He's a good therapist too, he is.
He's a really good therapist. Like Scott's helped me in
numerous occasions. And you know, with the boyfriend that I
had in common with you guys, and through other relationships
that I've been in while I've known you, and certainly
through my marriage, Scott was always sort of you know,
(06:40):
somebody that I that I went to along with you.
It was like, you know, I was getting the female
side and the male side. Yeah, And Scott and I
feel like we're very similar in personalities. Yea, so very insightful. Yeah,
I mean again, so are you. But I do like,
I do love watching you shut people down with your.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
A lot more confident now you are you taught listen
you Scott and a few other people in my life
gave me that strength to just be like, don't let
the first impression of like, look at me walking in
a room and that be the end of it. Like
now I made sure I'm like loud enough for you
to know that it's not just the tall skinny girl.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, the tall skinny girl with like the perfect bone structure.
That bone structure is crazy. My favorite photos is when
I post the two of us with our like our
cheekbones are popping out and I just need it cheeks.
So okay, so we met. We obviously, you know, we
stayed friends. We've been through a lot together. You gave
birth to a beautiful, you know, quirky, her own person, smart,
(07:48):
very independent, like young woman live who's wonderful. I love that,
like my friends that have kids, because I feel like
they're my children to a certain extent, but I get
to not have to deal with them. Twenty four to
the good parts. Yeah, yes, you borrow them. Yeah. I
like being aunt Shannon. That works for me one hundred percent.
(08:08):
You were also the person that I called when I,
you know, I started losing my hair from chemo, and
I remember I posted a photo on my Instagram a
while back, but of me coming out of the shower
holding like clumps and clumps and clumps of hair, and
I knew at that point in time that I had
(08:31):
to do something about it because I hadn't told anyone
or the world or the media like what I was
going through yet, because you know, I was still coming
to terms with it. But I knew that somebody was
going to get a photo of me that was unflattering
with you know, hair falling out, and that I had
(08:52):
to sort of take control over. Like my own narrators.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I've always been very much pro us handling things how
we share it, Like I always tell you we should
put that out first, like I shoulder your terms and
not the paparasitic term coming out of the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And you really did that for me, like yeah, you
know it was my mom was at the house and
we called you, and I was like, this is what's happened.
I need you to shave my head, and you were like, Okay,
I have to stop. I have to leave my house.
I have to stop and get the shaver from you know.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I went to the Malibu Country where the is it
a CBS, right, yeah, the CBS. And you're like, so
I'll be there. I'll try to be there in like
forty minutes. You should have seen me through the aisles.
I think it was thirty eight minutes later. You like
came knocking on the door.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Three different choices. I'm like, wishing you think would work. Yeah,
I was like, I don't know whatever I mean. It
was a moment that was filled with a lot of
emotions for me personally, Like it was I was losing
(10:03):
a lot of my identity because my hair was like
a big thing throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You know. I remember being a lot of full hair,
full hair. I remember being offered like a in the nineties,
I got offered some like shampoo endorsement for a big company.
I won't say who it was, but I turned it
down because at the time, nobody was doing endorsements like actors.
Who would have ever known, right, And so I was
like no, no, no, no. I took myself far too seriously.
(10:30):
I should have been like I'll take that cash, thank you,
but I did not. And so everything was, you know,
all about like the Brenda haircut and this and that
and and.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, people were modeling their styles after your Branda haircut. Yeah,
obviously I've been through this with you and a few
other friends and now including my mom. So it's it's
a big thing. I interestingly not off. You know, through
all of my like high school and like all the
different things people were picking on me, my hair was
(11:04):
the one thing they couldn't pick on. There is something
to be said for being able to understand to a
certain degree what you were going through, because I'm grateful
for it. I appreciate it, and I think that somehow, Dealer,
that's probably why you pick me for the difficult things,
(11:24):
because you really always I'm always there and like the
big difficult decision times. But I also feel is because
I become your cheerleader and I become your entertainment. And
in a funny way, like I like to make things
as light as possible because they are serious things. There
are light alternating movements for you and everyone that knows me,
(11:46):
and you know that, like I just come in here
and make you laugh, Like we already know you have
all the negatives stuff, negative stuff happening. We know you're
sick after chemo. We know all these things, so like,
there's no reason for me to come here and be like, so,
how is chemo? We're not going to talk about that,
because you know, I care. If you want to talk
about it, you bring it up. But older than that,
I'm just here and I'm just gonna be silly and
(12:07):
make you crack up, Like that's my job to make
you laugh till the end of days, and I.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Take that job very seriously. You're also supportive in a
way where I don't feel judged for being vain, you
know what I'm saying, Like most people would say, and
I've heard it of like you know, well, you should
be so grateful that it was just your hair and
(12:33):
then you're still alive. And I'm like, Okay, first off,
I am grateful that I'm alive, Like I never said
I wasn't grateful, but I'm still going to complain about
why I would be way more grateful if I still
had had a hair, you know, like, yeah, why why
you know? Cancer takes away so much from you, like,
why did it also have to take away something that you've.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Been in front of the camera your entire life. Yes,
you have been judged on how you look right every
single moment. So how can you not later, twenty five
years later, be worried about how you look. It's impossible.
It's it's ingrained in you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I mean I think it's ingrained in everybody, regardless of
what business you're in. You know, I think that their
whole world. And I personally don't think it's bad to
have a certain amount of vanity. I think that that's
what makes you, you know, take a shower in the morning.
I think it's what makes you brush your teeth. I
think it's what makes you wash your hair, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's it gets you out of bed.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I care about my parents. I care what I'm putting
in front of people, and I want them to, you know,
see that I've put in somewhat of an effort. And
it's why sometimes I get so mad at paparazzi pictures
of like me going into a grocery store at seven am,
you know, like missing milk. I just need milk, and
you know, it's all of a sudden, I look horrible
(13:54):
and it looks like I don't put in an effort,
or they get me right after chemo or you know.
So the shaving of the head was extremely pivotal moment.
That was pivotal and traumatic, and.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I think it took you a few days to even
realize what had happened. Yeah, I think you know. We mean,
we have the videos. I had no idea what I
was doing. I was like, as I was doing, and
I'm like, why am I doing this?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Why does she cook me?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And in my head, I'm like, trying to be the perfectionist,
I'm like, I should have watched the video first of all,
why don't I cut some of the hair first? Like
this machine is not going through?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I'm like, yeah, this is going great, bro, is
that right? She's doing amazing? Look how beautiful her head
looks on my phone. I think you guys did end
up pulling out like kitchen scissors.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Because nobody tells you that, Like, you can't just put
the buzzer through right hair this long. It just doesn't work.
So like I kept like emptying the thing. I was sweating,
like it was it was probably more yourself for me. God,
I hope you a pretty hair underneath there.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Please heat was very important.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
It was like I was like, just because it should
just be gorgeous, because she's already gorgeous. But if she
has a nice ballpad, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you did and I didn't even think of like
the shape, all those things. You didn't make it funny
talking about like the humor, because you once you cut
it with the kitchen scissors, you then gave me like
a little I gave you like a pixie. It was
like a Dorothy Hammel bob. And you took photos of
me with this Dorothy Hammel bob. This stuff she lets
(15:32):
me do is actually you gave me a mohawk.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You have really let me get away with some crazy
stuff that I don't think a lot of people get
away with. And we're still here and we've never had
a fight. We've never had a moment. No, like all
these years, I just agree with her.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That's that's not true. You definitely do not just agree
with me. I always say yes. But you also were
the one who figured out how I should post. I
wanted it to be real, not like some and you
did it like where it was, you know, a progression,
and it finally ended with like the result of you know,
a buzzed head.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I think it was important because I think a lot
of women admire you, A lot of women look up
to you that are going through something like this, and
we wanted to make it light. Yet we wanted to
make sure that like it had some meaning and that
people can you know, identify, and we did that. You
can see, in a matter of minutes, they outpouring of
comments of saying, You've made my day, You've made me
(16:32):
so much stronger. You have really given me the strength
to do this, like I mean for weeks. I don't
know if you remember. It was just like unbelievable the
amount of people that you touched by sharing that moment.
And that's invaluable, you know, like people and a lot
of people don't realize the impact that you can have
on someone that's been sitting at home by themselves going
through something like this, and they watch this post and
(16:54):
they're like, if she can do it, I can do it,
And that's very powerful.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't something obviously I was prepared for.
As you know, when you clicked the you know, go
button on my Instagram, I remember I did. You were
like you do it? Yeah, I mean I couldn't. I
wasn't to be honest. I wasn't brave enough, right, I
was so scared and and you were like, no, we're
doing this, like we're doing this and you did, and
(17:21):
I just looked at you. I was like no, what now? What?
Like social media was still new at that point, and
it was also like what is going to happen? Like
are people where is this going? Yeah? Are people going
to be upset with me that I was you know
this wide or the word that I that I hadn't
been honest from the very beginning, right that, like the
(17:42):
moment I got diagnosed, I wasn't instantly on saying hey guys,
I just got diagnosed with breast cancer. Like how would
they feel? How would they react? And how how would
it impact like future work for me?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Of course, which that was a big thing, like now
I'm going to be the sick person who's going to
want to work with me?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, And which is still an issue like to this day,
like there are people who you know, like to be
like ah, you know, like she might be too hard
to ensure or you know, well, how is she like
it's her memory? Okay? And I'm like, did I have
a photograph you've ever been? Yeah? I think we should
(18:22):
worry about all the people's issues more than this. Yeah.
I think that you're can run circles around most humans.
So put one thing in front of me and I'll
have like two seconds to look at it, and it's
memorized and it's in involved. It was very, very, very scary,
and you made it. You made it less scary. You
helped with your humor and and just your like general love,
(18:43):
like you're a very loving human being.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well, I always say I would like to leave the
room and be like, wow, she was so nice, not
wow she was so pretty. That's so much better. I'd
rather be nicer than pretty.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I'll take both.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, I'm gonna say I care, but isn't it much
nice to be like wow, she was so nice and
she was beautiful? Yeah, but the inside pard you know.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I nowadays I think I think now I go for like, wow,
she was so smart and funny, Like that's my favorite
thing to hear. I do like it when people say beautiful,
of course, because really I don't, and because I don't
feel it anymore, which is so crazy. I've gotten better. Yeah, specifically,
(19:27):
like in the last few months. This isn't like a
long time. It's literally probably like the last month really
two months that I started feeling attractive again. But before
that I was feeling as you know, because you're incredibly knowledgeable,
particularly about the beauty field, and about products that work,
(19:51):
products that don't work, techniques that work, you know, lasers
that are good for you, lasers, information. You're like a
wealth of knowledge. And I always call you and talk
to you about it first because I know that you're
going to be like, do not get that you have
the wrong skin type for that particular laser that's going
(20:14):
to mess you up? Or Yeah, they're charging you know,
X amount for that serum. It's way repriced. You should
get this one that's only thirty dollars. You have a
podcast that you do that's all about wellness, that's like
about your gut, and you do it with Jamie. Can
you tell?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I said, so, it's called beautiful things set out because
the beauty comes from within what we put in our bodies.
I have this argument with Shannon all Lots. I don't
know if you guys follow her on Instagram. I make
courage drink the green juices you know before and after
chemo try to like clean her system out. At first
she was like, this is disgusting, and now she begs
(20:54):
me to bring her grain juices.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I was actually really disappointed that you did not bring
me grain juice today, So do you want to know
the truth? You made and then you drank it. I
went to make it, I got all of.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The ingredients, and then I forgot one of the main ingredients,
so it's like, hmmm, what am I going to do?
So anyway, so I made it with blueberries and I
took everything that I had in the freezer frozen and
threw it in there.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And it was good.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
But I just it was like these weird purple eh
burgundy collar. I was like, there's no wish she's gonna
want to drink this.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I mean, I got made to drink green juice, so
you know, but instead you brought Peter Booth today. So
that was perfect. That was so good. It was really good.
I feel like because I was always so small, people
assumed that I didn't need as much food as they did,
(21:49):
and you would go for more, so like the food
would all be gone and I would and I was
a more slow eater and which is supposed to be
really just to make it for you and the would
be gone. And I was like, like, do you like,
excuse me? Did I not want some of that appetizer?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And I remember with some in laws that I had
at one point in time in my life, it was
like the first time I had met them, and lovely people,
and they like they made food, but it was here's
what I was eating, and then here's what because it
was cooked a different matures, and then here's what everybody
else is eating. And mine was like a super small portion,
(22:26):
and I guess it was well done. I remember looking
at that being like what And I'm like the I
was offended. I'm like like, excuse me. I'm like listening.
My metabolism is just fast, That's why I But I
love food and I wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Some mistake that people make of the two of us.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And yeah, and you're the exact same way, and like.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Room, there could be twelve people here eating and she
and I will clean out the kitchen, clean out the kitchen,
and then we don't stop moving the next day cleaning
the kitchen cleaning. Okay, so back to back to your podcast,
Beauty from the Inside of Beauty from the inside out
because you really do like believe in that and.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You like things, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think that I kind of got into the wellness.
Let's just backtrack for a second. I didn't grow up
like that. I grew up eating and loving food in
Puerto Rico, right, but not necessarily the healthiest food. A
lot of the food is fried. There's just a lot
of like not healthy ingredients delicious and it makes you
(23:29):
really happy and everyone's really happy at the end of
the meal. But I think when I decided that I
wanted to get pregnant, I went on this rabbit hole
of like how do I prepare my body to be
the cleanest, And then I went into this journey where
I was like really trying to understand how food affected
(23:51):
our body. And from there on, you know, I have
done every cleanse, every diet from the original juice cleans,
which by the way, are so bad for you now,
Like I've tried everything that has come and gone until
I finally found a really good balance of eating the
(24:12):
things I like, having lots of desserts. As you know,
I'm obsessed. Channa makes the most insane blueberry bread putting,
bread putting, and then she puts the glaze over it.
So anyways, listen, I constantly Actually, I don't want to
make it seem like it's so easy, because it's not.
It's a constant battle for me to balance what's good
(24:35):
for my body and what my brain wants. And that's
kind of how I ended up in the journey with
doctor Jamie, who I get introduced by Channa's and I
trainer who use all the time Kira, and she's one
of the best introductions I've ever had because she is
so good at just explaining things in a simple manner
(24:59):
and there is zero judgment coming from her, So doesn't
matter how you like to do it, how difficult or
easy it is for you, She's just going to be
in that journey with you. And I remember, I think
maybe three four meetings with her. I said to her
(25:19):
one day, I was like, I've people have asked me
before to like do podcasts about this. The other I said,
I've never had an interest because I do not want
to hear myself speak. I don't think anyone cares to
hear Anne Marie by herself talking about this stuff. I said,
but I would love to do this with you because
I would love to do like wellness for dummies, And
(25:39):
what I meant by that was that I can have
all my questions prepared and have her answer them as
if I was the patient, And it was so fabulous.
From the moment we started, it was just left.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Since knowing you and since you went on your sort
of beauty journey and discovering what was like really good
for your body and what to put in it, I've
gotten much better. Yeah, and yes, you sometimes have to
bring me juices or you have to come here and
use my juicer. But I've definitely become a lot more
aware because you can see it. Yes, your eyes, the
whiten your eyes gets clear. You feel better by yourself.
(26:16):
I'm sure that you have days where you've done kimo
and you wanted a burgroom fries, which, by the way,
I approve every day in and out whichever, and the
days you do the juices, it just you do feel better.
Once mentally better, the other one's physically better. And they're
both good because one day you need one, the next
day you need the other. It's not just one thing.
(26:39):
You can be happy with the way you eat, the
way you exercise. It doesn't have to be all in
or all out.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I mean, we're living in a very like extremist world.
You know, we keep extreme. It's very it's either weird,
like this direction or that direction. It's like we're too skinny,
we're not healthy enough, right, think about that. Like I
was told once I wasn't I was unendurable, and I
was like, what are you talking about. I was on
their weight for my heights, and I go, would you
(27:07):
like to follow me for the next week because there's
nothing else I can't do. That's really interesting because you know,
like the United States, they have the thing where it
gives you, like what your ideal weight should be, But
what they don't take into account is that sometimes what
they claim is the ideal weight is too thin for
(27:30):
some people and too heavy for other people, because your
bones really make a difference. Like I'm very fine boned
and so are you. So the extra weight and believe
you know, it wasn't that long ago that I had
a lot of extra weight on me, Like the meds
that I was on and everything else. It's not even weight,
(27:51):
it's just water retenne was yeah, water retention. It was
a lot of weight. I was extremely depressed. I was
on meds, that were, you know, messing with me, not
like cancer meds, you guys. You know, I'm sure other
people think I should be on other meds, but I'm
talking about the cancers. So I put on like a
(28:13):
lot of weight. I've never weighed that amount, and I
I couldn't stand myself like I was really well just.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
For the physical part, because it just doesn't feel good
to you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh, I felt like none of my clothes fit me.
I felt gross. I just didn't go to other people
that were like, oh, she looks so healthy, right, and
You're like what, And I'm like, I'm not healthy, Like
this is not healthy for me. This is too much
weight on my body. It's too much weight on my bones.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Where we all don't fit in that one box, so
it's impossible, and we all have a different like body mass, bones,
like everybody has a different thing, and so you really
have to figure out what is what is your version
of healthy. Yeah, it's the same with skin, It's the
same with all of it. It's like you have to
find what we're for you.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
You know, you look at j Loo for instance, and
I'm bringing her up because I was in Italy in
August and she was there and she was, you know,
as close to me as you are. And I was like,
how does she have this skin? Like She's like she
takes care of herself, Like she does a lot of
the things I do, and she's been doing it forever,
which is like prevents it but still that you know,
(29:23):
but yeah, I have to I have to be Yeah,
we have completely set who I am, my genetics, and
then go all right, how do I get to the
best version of my skin that I can possibly get?
So going into that as you know.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Especially with all the cancer mats, right, That's what I'm
thinking about that, right, Like it's the same with like
your hair. Everything's gonna you know, people never know how
the hair is going to grow back, right, the same
with your skin. Your skin might get thinner, it might
get thicker, it might get more wrinkled, it might get
more light and get more great through all the years,
your skin's changed the law, you know, depending on the
mets that you were on, your skin was changing. So
(30:00):
we have to like change what you were doing because
you're like, Okay, now I'm too early, now I'm too dry,
or my hair is doing this or too you know, like, yeah,
there's always going to be a different reaction when you're
going through these treatments, which is the thing that I
think a lot of people don't talk about, you know,
especially when they have cancer. Like I have these conversations
with my mom all the time, and I would say,
(30:21):
text Channel Jilla or text my other friend, and I'm like,
see what they're thinking, what they're doing. I mean, I'm
not sure how deep we want to get into this,
but there's a lot of other things that happen when
you're getting chema.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Okay, Well, I think that we don't feel as comfortable
talking about it because again it goes back to the
thing of others that don't have cancer and that are
not going through this journey. They they're like why, Like
you're just lucky to be alive, Like that's you should
just be focused on staying alone and who cares about
(31:01):
your skin? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I do,
because you know I'm anybody that's telling you that I
should not be part of your life, right, I'm a woman.
I care about how I look. I do eventually want
to meet somebody else. I do want to fall in
love again, but more importantly, I want to fall in
(31:21):
love with myself again, right, And I haven't felt great
about myself for a really long time. Like those cancer meds,
chemo radiation, everything, it sucked every bit of collagen out.
All of a sudden, I got a gazillion wrinkles. I
was like, what the hell is this about? And then
stress and stress lost My hair grew back. Then you know,
(31:45):
I had to do brain radiation, the hair like patchy,
then the treatment, the infusions. That's that you're still cracking
up and smiling. People really knew. Think about it. If
people really.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Knew, would you truly go every day ups and downs?
And you know, it's so hard, like to really grasp
I know that we should be grateful for everything we
have and be thankful and be so happy to have
a roof and to have food and to have water
(32:19):
all of these things, but like when did we stop
being human? Why can I have a bad day? You know?
And it's like you and I have this conversation which
I think I feel very comfortable having it with you,
where I'm like, you could be coming out of chemo
and you could be basically feeling like shit part of
(32:41):
me about to throw up in the highway on your
way home and I'm having a shit day, and I
feel okay telling you I'm having the worst day ever,
and you will literally stop and listen to me, And that,
to me is true friendship right there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's also all relative, you know, like my crap day,
they're still just as important as each other's, Like my
chemo doesn't trump your day exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
But you taught me that you taught me. I remember
you yelled at me once because you're like, how did
I not know you haven't been feeling well?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And in my head I was like, because what you're
going through And you're like, what's wrong with you? That's
not really what you said, but I'm not going to
repeat it exactly where by word, and I will have
to believe you. Yeah, blig me a lot. And then
and you were like, in Mari, you're my friend. If
you're having a bad day, I want to know about it,
you know. And that is priceless because there are very
(33:35):
very few people in my life and in your life
where we can truly be ourselves. And that's that's priceless.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I mean you are because I know that you were
about to get into this and you're hesitant. So we're
going to there are things that I will only discuss
with you. And you know, one of the things that
I've been very honest with you about and we sort
of have gone down the path together you've like taken
me to doctor Cherry Ross, was what what cancer does
(34:06):
to your libido? What it does to I mean, listen,
when you're feeling not great about yourself, that's going to
kill your libido. But then when it actually impacts your libido,
when it takes when meds take your libido away, or
it makes you know, things not as pleasant, like sex
doesn't feel as good. Whatever it is women, particularly when
you get to a certain age like or when you
(34:29):
start going through menopause, is really I think when PM
talk about that, right, but that's when it all starts happening,
when like a woman's sex drive really really really changes.
And you know, there are some women who take a
lot of hormones for it in order to balance it out.
There's some women who don't want to take hormones, but
they still want balance well alternative things, and now we
have atortive things. Doctor Ross has really been a pioneer
(34:52):
in that area. So this is doctor Cherry Ross. She's
located in Yeah, she's a gynecologist, and she's listed, she's
in and Monica, she makes me blush a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I got to be honest, I know you're so much
more even though we're both conservatives in our own upbringings
and like our backgrounds. She like, I'm kind of like,
I think the model in business is a little bit
more open than the way you were. And I remember
sitting in the office with her, because of course I
took Shan into the op appointment and I sat there
with her because that's.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
What I do.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And I remember by the way she took me because
you know, I specifically said to her, like I, you know,
I need to do something. Things are not working, Things
aren't working, and this isn't the life that I want
to live. And you know, I also don't want my
husband to live like this, so I need to, you know,
figure this out. And so Amory next that I already
(35:47):
had a guynecologist, but she was like, no, no, no,
there's one person that you need to go to and
that's doctor Sherry Ross. So now keep going.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And so we went there and you know, she goes
and Channon gets her exam and she comes out. She's
like me, me, in the office. I'm sitting in the office.
She's got all these little these place of things.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Of toys. Then she goes, here's Shannon take this, and
Shannon like shoves it in her back. She's like, you
think you can see it? And I'm like, I'm like,
no one can see it, no one knows. Isn't there.
She's like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And she's like, you're going to take this home and
this is how you're going to use it. And she
was like Shannon was like, I've never seen her disembarrassed.
I was probably the only time. And and then the
next day, I'm like, so, how did it go? And
You're like, I'm not telling you, And I go, it's
still in your bag. It's and then she's like, yep,
still on.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
My bag, Still on the bag, Still in my bag.
I think it stayed in my bag for a really
long time. Uh she I mean listen, I'm I think
I'm turning red, just like your sweating. I can see
I was sweating. I'm like, oh my god, I need
to turn on the acy in hair. But people don't
understand that it's not you know, paramenopause, menopause, just getting older,
(36:57):
all of it impacts not just you know, your exterior.
It doesn't just impact your skin, but it's also impacting
the whole way that your body is reacting and responding.
And then you add to that cancer meds, you add
to that chemo or and it just zaps you of
of everything and it takes your confidence. Yeah, it takes
(37:21):
away your confidence. It takes away like your identity. And
like I, for the last solid couple of years, probably
four years, have felt like a boy. Like I thought
I looked like a boy. I am one hot looking boy,
thank you. I mean, I just you know, and obviously
(37:46):
there were other things you know now, I know that
we're playing into it about like you know, other contributing
factors into into how I felt. But at the end
of the day, like me feeling like that didn't help
anything in line relationship. Of course not because then I'm not,
you know, engaging with full confidence, which is a problem
in a relationship. It was impacting me.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Well, it's like you said earlier, it's like you have
to learn to love yourself first, and you weren't loving yourself,
so how can you even have somebody else love you?
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It's hard. I mean, the one thing I was like,
there's two things. One is a serious thing, which is
when I discovered you know, the intimate and fasting, which
really got like that first initial weight off of me.
I think I lost like ten pounds. I remember that
it was more than that. I mean I lost ten
(38:37):
pounds like two weeks, like quick, and while eating amazing
food and just you know, only eating between twelve and
eight and then being careful of what I was putting
into my body and you know, having prepared meals like
that really did it. And then then I always joke
that one of the most amazing things about my infusions
(39:00):
is that, you know, it made me throw up a lot.
So there was the wind cable of day. Yeah, I mean,
I guess this is the thing. Sometimes you just got
to laugh at it.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I mean you got to find the positive and everything right.
There is no other way around it. And honestly, you
can't laugh in life. I don't know what you're doing.
You can have bad times, but you got to laugh. Yeah,
I'm gonna make yourself laugh and cry cry while laughing.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I mean all of our New York trips. I remember
I was in New York and I was at Marquis
Noah Teppenberg's club, and I'm not going to say who
it was, but it's it was a you know, sort
of famous journalist, I guess, we could say. And I
was there. I started making out with him, and I
(39:50):
was not there. My friend was with me, who is gay,
and I got up to like go talk to someone
that I knew, and I came back and my gay
friend was making out with the journalist. Oh my god,
I know, and he took him home and I was like, well,
there goes that, there goes that. I guess he you know,
(40:11):
I guess. I guess my friend was more his type.
And that's awesome. But like those were the kind of
you know nights that we had back then, or at
least that I had, and you were you were probably
more well behaved than I was. I've always been a good,
well behaved child for the most part. It also made
it great for me. It was great. You were like
more of the responsible one and the one that would
(40:34):
look at me and be like, he's not that cute.
Trust me tomorrow, you're gonna you would regret it, like
let's go. And I was like, okay, cool, all right,
I trust Amory with that decision. We have fun, all right,
(40:54):
So this is good, and I know that it's I
know that it's like hard because there's probably not one
thing and you've kind of addressed it, But like, what
are your beauty routines currently?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Well, not currently, I think for the last two years
maybe a little bit more, I have really focused on
finding the perfect routine because I'm working on my own
little thing that may or may not be coming at
some point sooner.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I will be the first one.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And I like to do a thing that I mean,
it's not my thing, but it's called skin recycling. So
basically what I like to do is try a lot
of different products in different ways, at different times of
the day, in different orders, until I just find that
good combination. I think I finally figured it out, but
I can't.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Tell you just yet.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You're there, it's coming, So it is very important that
I'll tell you one thing that I've learned. The reason
you keep your skin moisturized glowy hydra, it's by sealing
the moisture in. So when you're applying a product, make
sure that you don't start with the dewey gowey stuff
(42:09):
first and then put the liquided stuff after, because that
doesn't make any sense, right, think about it. So you're
gonna put your yellow bomb, that's basically going to be
a barrier that's supposed to be your top. They're supposed
to keep all the things that you put in there
pressed in continue to hydrate you throughout the day.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
So for example, I'm gonna give you one for free, Okay,
thank you? You take you do missed. If you're gonna
do a toner, I like a missed. I spray it,
I pat it down. In the morning, I'll do a
hyaluronic acid, so you put it in while the skin
is stamped. People don't realize that you shouldn't put hyaluronic
acid on dry skin.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
You missed.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Do the hyaluronic acid. Then I do a serum or
an oil, they're pretty much similar, and then you do a.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Bomb on top. Right, So those are just a normal lotion, moisturizer.
Do you ever use this or are you a bomb girl?
You know, it depends.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
If I'm somewhere hot, I'll probably avoid the bomb, and
then I'll do a some protection lotion type thing. And
but for the most part, I find that at my
later age, as I may or may not be in
enter impairmental past, which people don't like to talk about
(43:28):
it because it makes you're old. I'm like, I don't care.
I'm going to own it. I'm gonna talk about it
as everybody knows what they need to do. I just
feel like I really need that extra help because what
happens is if you allow your skin to get dry
and dehydrate it when certain things happen it, that's when
(43:49):
you get like your wrinkles on your stretch marks, right
like it happens when a woman is pregnant towards the
end of the pregnancy. I always tell everybody, you've got
to really lotion that belly, like you gotta make it's
so gross that you can like pick it with your
nails because guess what those last thirty days, everything stretches,
everything changes, and if it's dry, you're gonna get a
(44:10):
stretch mark, you're gonna get a wrinkle. So the most
important thing is to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, And I always say,
you just try to delay as much as possible. And
how do you delay that process. It's by hydrating and
drinking lots of water, some wine at night, and lots
of vegetables. So that's kind of like, you know, I
(44:35):
do some other things. I do some treatments, nothing invasive.
I have yet to inject myself because I'm just petrified
of the needles. Yeah, so I mean this is you
can see I can move.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, I'm looking at you. Your face moves. Mine does too.
But I have had botox. Yeah, you've done it a
couple of times. Yeah, I've done it a couple of times.
I think the last time I did it was like
I think six months ago.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Okay, she didn't take me to that appointment.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
No, that was when I called you. That was with
doctor Jason Diamond. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's right.
He is great. It was the first time I've ever
been to him, that you went to him. He's great.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
He's so light handed that a lot of my friends
go to him, and he's lovely. He understands the skin
very well. He understands muscles. That's the one thing that
people really don't understand that you can really you need
to understand. There's so many things happening, there's so many
little muscles and nerves in the face that you inject
someone wrong. So that's why you're going to go for it.
(45:36):
I'm not disapproving, just goes somewhere where the person understands.
Plastic surgeons are great at the baby boatox that's what
they call it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
So I have I have, I've had a plastic surgeon
besides doctor Diamond do potox, and it was horrible, like
so bad. I walked in that like two days later,
like my husband looked at me and said, what did
you do to your I know, I'm I don't know
because we're not divorced yet. We're in the middle of
(46:03):
a doorce, so I never know what to call him.
It's okay, he's still a husband. He was like, what
did you do to your face? Like my like my
nose wouldn't even move. It was terrible. And then a
friend of mine suggested this other guy, doctor Bradley Freedman,
who is great. He's on Peko and like a really
small little there's totally understands like the muscle and how
(46:27):
to hit. And then and then I went to Diamond
because I wanted to get like an overall sort of assessment.
I wanted to be told like that I didn't need
a facelift, you know. I like went in to be like, oh,
I'm here. For a face of consult and what I
wanted to hear was like, no, you don't need any one.
In stead, what I heard was, oh, you're a great
candidate for it, and I was like, no, not yet.
(46:49):
It petrifies me, but that'll be an interesting moment in life.
Oh God, I don't know. I can make fun of you,
so you know, I don't know when they put that
wrap around your face, it really I will. You're in
the wheelchair, and I'll make fun of you the whole way.
I don't want to come out like a different person.
That's what you really have to frightens me.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
You know, there's technologies amazing these days. By the time
you actually get the gods to do it, which will
be another tenure, you don't even have to do that.
The technology will be so advanced, it'll be so easy.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
And you know, it's just I do believe.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
I like that whole theory of like starting early on
doing little tiny things to your skin if it matters. Yeah,
you know, I think that's there's nothing wrong with that.
I don't think there's anything wrong with anything.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Like do what makes you happy, right, And that's the thing, right,
is that there's such a sort of stigma of women
who people you know, they get the bowtops and they
get the lips done and they get a facelift, and
then they want to deny that they got any work done,
and and or people judge them and are like, you
got work done well first off, if they don't want
(47:59):
to tell you, it's not your business, like leave them
alone is my first thing. I watch it on Instagram
a lot where certain girls get accused all the time,
and I'm like, it's called filters. I'm like, yeah, by
the way, it's filters, a lot of filters. And but
it's also like it's none of your business, Like who cares.
(48:21):
It's up to you to be your own individual It's
not up to them to teach you how to be
an individuals.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And all these things can be private, not private. It's
it's all also, but it's also how you present yourself,
right because there's a movement right now of all these
people magically getting very skinny and they're like, oh, I
just drink this and.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Pick movement like all it like it is. I mean,
it's very unrealistic. You do not have diabetes and shoot
you up with something that listens for diabetes to ease
your own, but don't go and promote your workout line
right and your supplements asked to how you got that thing?
(49:02):
That's unfair, that's unhealthy for our children watching you and
following you. One hundred percent, that's my only problem. I
don't care if you want to shoot yourself with oozempic
every day you go for it. Here's the warning signs
you still want to do it, be my guest, but
do not lie to the children that are following you
by telling them that please take this upplement and do
(49:22):
this workout for fifteen minutes, because no workout for fifteen
minutes is crap, right, Because because people are impression makes
me angry. Can you see how my mood change? But
you're but you're right because you have a daughter who's
right in that age group of being, you know, impressed
by certain people and wanting to impressionable, wanting to look
(49:44):
like them. And guess what, I'm a lot older than
your daughter, just in case you didn't know, and I'm impressionable. Yeah, Like,
I don't mind. I look at women and I'm like,
how did they get that butt? How did they get
that face? Oh? I need to do their workout I
need to do this, and let me tell you. I'll
try for like a month and I'm like, yeah, nothing's changed.
Seven minute workout like doesn't work, doesn't hard work, We'll
(50:06):
pay off. Anyone can lose anything they want. Anyone can
build their best version of their body. But it takes
a lot of effort. So that's the only part I
have an issue with. Talk about the fact that it
takes a lot of work. I work out.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Listen, I go on and off. I've been on my
back door working now since I got better from my
crazy ear issue. I'm going on three month. This is
a hard one for me, and I'm curious of what
you think. As you know, like my hair has been
a struggle, particularly since like I started, so, I had
(50:44):
brain surgery in January, followed by brain radiation, lost some
of my hair from that, but also the texture of
my hair was a.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Text At some point there were we may have to
shave my head again, right, and then I'm on you know,
infusions and again every single three weeks. And you know,
it was only supposed to call light cause light shedding.
It did more than light shedding. And as you know,
I wore a hat NonStop to like cover it up,
and I got cigare wearing a hat and I found
(51:15):
this place that does It's called an interlace system. Okay,
Essentially it's a weave, right There's it's different than extensions
because extensions have a certain amount of metal in them
and I have to get MRIs all the time, so
I can't have any metal. Okay, So it's it's basically
like you know, a mesh with breathable holes that they
(51:38):
whatever hair you have left goes through. If you have
zero hair like some people, then they do tape. And
you know, I my hair was down to hear with
this interlace system and it was too long for me.
I couldn't manage it because I haven't had a hair
in a while, and so I got all this hair
all of a sudden. I saw the other night. I
was like, whoa, yeah, and I'm you know, I'm getting
(52:00):
used to the feeling of hair again. That was my
first question, Oh my god, does it feel right? You
did ask me that on the phone on FaceTime, and
I was like, it all feels good, except like this
still feels like I'm wearing a little bit of a hat.
But it looks great. Thanks. I struggle with it. And
here's the reason why I struggle, because I feel I
(52:20):
feel like I feel like it's my responsibility and that
it's also what I'm most proud of about myself, to
be fully authentic and transparent, but particularly when it comes
to cancer, I feel a lot of responsibility and good
(52:43):
responsibility right like I embrace it. But I have had
thoughts in my head about like, am I being inauthentic
right now? Am I? Am? I? Is my authenticity going
to be?
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Is it in question by myself because I'm not embracing
the full experience of going through what I'm going through
and with so many other women are going through And
like the first time, you know, we shaved my head
or I wore a scarf. Sometimes I went out completely bald,
(53:20):
but either way it was you know, this is me.
This is what happens when you have cancer. And I
think that just this time around, maybe it's going through
a divorce, maybe it's being my age. Maybe I think
you're thinking, maybe it's all of it. But I wanted
to like, I'm trying to feel somewhat normal and I'm
trying to like myself more. And I thought that having
(53:43):
hair might help and to a certain degree. It really
has helped. Like I'm like, oh, okay, I can be
pretty sometimes right there. Okay, I thought that the fact
that that's even going through your head, you're not being
like true to yourself or you're not being like real.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
You're insane. You're like the most real person when it
comes to sharing your cancer journey. You don't hide anything,
like it's all up for grabs, literally, So I think
you need to just and by the way, you might
be getting some people the god to be like I'm
gonna go do that way you shan't.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Do it, I can do it. I mean, by the way,
it is very It does lift you up a little bit.
There has to lift at something about it.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And having hair is part of a woman's feminine femininity.
It is part of what makes you sexy. It is
part of like going on a date and having pretty hair. Yeah,
hair is so important.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I meanwhile, your hair is growing underneath it, Like the
system is such a good system that your hair grows
so like hopefully it only gets better and better.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
It's amazing, Like the technology and all the things to
make you people that are going through what you're going
through make it a little easier because you you don't
change a bit of how you're handling this and how
you're sharing things. You are not an open book for
the most part. So thank you, Thank you for having me.
I love you, Thank you very blessed to have you
in my life. Thank you for being on I love
(55:11):
you all right, guys, thank you for listening. And that
was Amory Court right, my beautiful, amazing, wonderful friend. And
when I say beautiful, I truly do mean from the inside.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I'm her funniest and nicest friends. And that is also true.
So thanks to listening to Let's Be Claire with Shannon
Doherty and see you next time.
This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Dorney. Hello to
all my listeners. I am back with another episode of
Let's Be Clear. Today. I want to focus on the
concept of beauty and what that means to me. And
there's no better person to join this discussion than my
dear friend, who is stunningly beautiful, a model many things,
(00:24):
Anne Marie Courtwright.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I kind of wanted to first start with how we met.
Although I wasn't married to the person that I was
dating at the time, I sort of say that I
got you in the divorce. Yes you did. It was
it was like a although he'll argue he got me too.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I had to split my side. But I did get you. Yes,
I didn't give the other excess. I got you, right,
that's the thinking. Okay, So we met. I started dating
a guy. His name is Jason, and he lived in
New York. And we were dating I don't even know,
like a month or two months maybe at the most,
and he said, I want you to meet like my
(01:03):
best friend and his fiance, who I love. She's like
a sister to me. Can we, you know, meet them tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
For brunch for brunch and the East Villish and I
was like, oh god, no, I have to meet the friends.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You know, I was not into it. And then when
he was like, oh and she's a model, I was
like still, I was like, I know, thank you. I
don't need to be like the five to four girl
standing next to like a giants. Just not I'm not interested.
But it was important to him, and I was like, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Fine, that's the best decision you ever made.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It really was like I got up there, but it
was awesome. I think. I don't know. I mean, I
know how I felt sort of meeting you and hanging
out in that brunch and your your what's now your
husband was your fiance at that time, Scott, which I
can go into, but let's hear it from you first.
I love it for come on, just put it out there.
(02:02):
I mean, did you have any impressions? Like, I don't
know if you knew who I was as far as
an actress, she was Brenda.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
She walked in until there were some I'm like, oh
my god, is Brenda?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And then that was it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Then I called myself. You know, there's very very few
people that give me starstuck, and that was you. And
you know, usually you meet those people that you're kind
of into and you love watching them on TV and
you're like, oh I wish I didn't. It was the
different case with you, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Eighteen plus years later. I mean I wasn't even married.
I have a fifteen and a half year old, so right, yeah,
we're going way back. Yeah yeah, but we still look
just as good. Well you definitely did, that's for sure.
We get better with age. I swear you have not aged.
I mean, and that's actually a really true statement. I
think that you specifically have gotten better with age. And
(02:57):
we're going to get into this because you know, I'm
constantly asking you, like what.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Do I do? And it's because I look at you
and I'm like, how how does somebody's skin get prettier
and better? But before I jump in there, obviously I
went into that brunch a little trepidacious, and then I
met you, and there was like this sort of familiarity,
like immediately where I felt, oh, okay, I know this person,
(03:22):
and like an instant comfort a girlship and I don't know,
I don't think that's a word, but I'm now creating
a word, the girlship, because you know, especially back then,
at that point in time, girls were not always supportive
of other girls, and I was definitely used to that
being the case. And then all of a sudden, I
(03:43):
met you, and I felt like, oh, this girl's got
my back.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I think for the most case, I think in your business,
in my business. Then, you know, it was hard to
really make a bond with a new girl because you know,
you had to really watch your back. So when you
found that person in that connection that you knew like, wait,
she's a girls girls, and she's got your back and
it's real, you grab onto it. And that's how we
are still here.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's insane how much I think
women have sort of grown and evolved where we understand
that there's room for all of us and we don't
necessarily have to be as competitive, and instead we can
just support one another. And like with every job you got,
with every positive thing that happened in your life, I
(04:28):
was so excited, accelerated. Yeah, yeah, and vice versa.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I never understood not celebrating other women's anyone's achievements that
you care for. In general, I'm happy for everyone. There's
room for everyone, and I truly feel that way, like
I am genuinely happy for my friends. Even if it
was a model that was going up for the same
job as me, it didn't matter, you know. I'm like,
it wasn't meant to be, like and I still feel
(04:52):
that way. There is everything's meant to be. It happens
for a reason. And I think you really got to
see the real me back then, which a lot of
people I feel like don't know the real me. They
kind of judge me walking in the door, and I
have many of those stories. You know, a lot of
people like to judge you by just looking. And you know,
(05:13):
I used to be very reserved. I was bullied my
whole high school life, and I was always very guarded
and who I led into my life. But at the
same time, I always kind of knew when there was
that good person that I kind of wanted to add
to my core group of girls. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I've watched people gloss over asking you a question because
they assume that you look the way that you look,
that you're not going to know the answer. It's my
favorite thing. It's actually one of my favorite things too,
to watch to be a witness to you because you
are so incredibly intelligent and use intelligent and stupid. I
(05:52):
pay attention, You pay attention, and you're studied. If there's
something that you don't know about, you will do one
of two things. Either you're the first to be like,
I don't know enough to talk about it, or you
will educate yourself on.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
It, and then I'll come back and I'll be fully
informed exactly. And I learned that from my husband. I
have to tell you. I got to give him a
little credit. He always says, don't speak.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
If you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Just listen.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
You obviously know that your husband is one of my
favorite people I know. Like Scott and I bonded and
we still bond. He's a good therapist too, he is.
He's a really good therapist. Like Scott's helped me in
numerous occasions. And you know, with the boyfriend that I
had in common with you guys, and through other relationships
that I've been in while I've known you, and certainly
through my marriage, Scott was always sort of you know,
(06:40):
somebody that I that I went to along with you.
It was like, you know, I was getting the female
side and the male side. Yeah, And Scott and I
feel like we're very similar in personalities. Yea, so very insightful. Yeah,
I mean again, so are you. But I do like,
I do love watching you shut people down with your.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
A lot more confident now you are you taught listen
you Scott and a few other people in my life
gave me that strength to just be like, don't let
the first impression of like, look at me walking in
a room and that be the end of it. Like
now I made sure I'm like loud enough for you
to know that it's not just the tall skinny girl.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, the tall skinny girl with like the perfect bone structure.
That bone structure is crazy. My favorite photos is when
I post the two of us with our like our
cheekbones are popping out and I just need it cheeks.
So okay, so we met. We obviously, you know, we
stayed friends. We've been through a lot together. You gave
birth to a beautiful, you know, quirky, her own person, smart,
(07:48):
very independent, like young woman live who's wonderful. I love that,
like my friends that have kids, because I feel like
they're my children to a certain extent, but I get
to not have to deal with them. Twenty four to
the good parts. Yeah, yes, you borrow them. Yeah. I
like being aunt Shannon. That works for me one hundred percent.
(08:08):
You were also the person that I called when I,
you know, I started losing my hair from chemo, and
I remember I posted a photo on my Instagram a
while back, but of me coming out of the shower
holding like clumps and clumps and clumps of hair, and
I knew at that point in time that I had
(08:31):
to do something about it because I hadn't told anyone
or the world or the media like what I was
going through yet, because you know, I was still coming
to terms with it. But I knew that somebody was
going to get a photo of me that was unflattering
with you know, hair falling out, and that I had
(08:52):
to sort of take control over. Like my own narrators.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I've always been very much pro us handling things how
we share it, Like I always tell you we should
put that out first, like I shoulder your terms and
not the paparasitic term coming out of the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And you really did that for me, like yeah, you
know it was my mom was at the house and
we called you, and I was like, this is what's happened.
I need you to shave my head, and you were like, Okay,
I have to stop. I have to leave my house.
I have to stop and get the shaver from you know.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I went to the Malibu Country where the is it
a CBS, right, yeah, the CBS. And you're like, so
I'll be there. I'll try to be there in like
forty minutes. You should have seen me through the aisles.
I think it was thirty eight minutes later. You like
came knocking on the door.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Three different choices. I'm like, wishing you think would work. Yeah,
I was like, I don't know whatever I mean. It
was a moment that was filled with a lot of
emotions for me personally, Like it was I was losing
(10:03):
a lot of my identity because my hair was like
a big thing throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You know. I remember being a lot of full hair,
full hair. I remember being offered like a in the nineties,
I got offered some like shampoo endorsement for a big company.
I won't say who it was, but I turned it
down because at the time, nobody was doing endorsements like actors.
Who would have ever known, right, And so I was
like no, no, no, no. I took myself far too seriously.
(10:30):
I should have been like I'll take that cash, thank you,
but I did not. And so everything was, you know,
all about like the Brenda haircut and this and that
and and.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, people were modeling their styles after your Branda haircut. Yeah,
obviously I've been through this with you and a few
other friends and now including my mom. So it's it's
a big thing. I interestingly not off. You know, through
all of my like high school and like all the
different things people were picking on me, my hair was
(11:04):
the one thing they couldn't pick on. There is something
to be said for being able to understand to a
certain degree what you were going through, because I'm grateful
for it. I appreciate it, and I think that somehow, Dealer,
that's probably why you pick me for the difficult things,
(11:24):
because you really always I'm always there and like the
big difficult decision times. But I also feel is because
I become your cheerleader and I become your entertainment. And
in a funny way, like I like to make things
as light as possible because they are serious things. There
are light alternating movements for you and everyone that knows me,
(11:46):
and you know that, like I just come in here
and make you laugh, Like we already know you have
all the negatives stuff, negative stuff happening. We know you're
sick after chemo. We know all these things, so like,
there's no reason for me to come here and be like, so,
how is chemo? We're not going to talk about that,
because you know, I care. If you want to talk
about it, you bring it up. But older than that,
I'm just here and I'm just gonna be silly and
(12:07):
make you crack up, Like that's my job to make
you laugh till the end of days, and I.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Take that job very seriously. You're also supportive in a
way where I don't feel judged for being vain, you
know what I'm saying, Like most people would say, and
I've heard it of like you know, well, you should
be so grateful that it was just your hair and
(12:33):
then you're still alive. And I'm like, Okay, first off,
I am grateful that I'm alive, Like I never said
I wasn't grateful, but I'm still going to complain about
why I would be way more grateful if I still
had had a hair, you know, like, yeah, why why
you know? Cancer takes away so much from you, like,
why did it also have to take away something that you've.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Been in front of the camera your entire life. Yes,
you have been judged on how you look right every
single moment. So how can you not later, twenty five
years later, be worried about how you look. It's impossible.
It's it's ingrained in you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I mean I think it's ingrained in everybody, regardless of
what business you're in. You know, I think that their
whole world. And I personally don't think it's bad to
have a certain amount of vanity. I think that that's
what makes you, you know, take a shower in the morning.
I think it's what makes you brush your teeth. I
think it's what makes you wash your hair, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's it gets you out of bed.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I care about my parents. I care what I'm putting
in front of people, and I want them to, you know,
see that I've put in somewhat of an effort. And
it's why sometimes I get so mad at paparazzi pictures
of like me going into a grocery store at seven am,
you know, like missing milk. I just need milk, and
you know, it's all of a sudden, I look horrible
(13:54):
and it looks like I don't put in an effort,
or they get me right after chemo or you know.
So the shaving of the head was extremely pivotal moment.
That was pivotal and traumatic, and.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I think it took you a few days to even
realize what had happened. Yeah, I think you know. We mean,
we have the videos. I had no idea what I
was doing. I was like, as I was doing, and
I'm like, why am I doing this?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Why does she cook me?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And in my head, I'm like, trying to be the perfectionist,
I'm like, I should have watched the video first of all,
why don't I cut some of the hair first? Like
this machine is not going through?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And I'm like, yeah, this is going great, bro, is
that right? She's doing amazing? Look how beautiful her head
looks on my phone. I think you guys did end
up pulling out like kitchen scissors.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Because nobody tells you that, Like, you can't just put
the buzzer through right hair this long. It just doesn't work.
So like I kept like emptying the thing. I was sweating,
like it was it was probably more yourself for me. God,
I hope you a pretty hair underneath there.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Please heat was very important.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
It was like I was like, just because it should
just be gorgeous, because she's already gorgeous. But if she
has a nice ballpad, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you did and I didn't even think of like
the shape, all those things. You didn't make it funny
talking about like the humor, because you once you cut
it with the kitchen scissors, you then gave me like
a little I gave you like a pixie. It was
like a Dorothy Hammel bob. And you took photos of
me with this Dorothy Hammel bob. This stuff she lets
(15:32):
me do is actually you gave me a mohawk.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You have really let me get away with some crazy
stuff that I don't think a lot of people get
away with. And we're still here and we've never had
a fight. We've never had a moment. No, like all
these years, I just agree with her.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That's that's not true. You definitely do not just agree
with me. I always say yes. But you also were
the one who figured out how I should post. I
wanted it to be real, not like some and you
did it like where it was, you know, a progression,
and it finally ended with like the result of you know,
a buzzed head.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I think it was important because I think a lot
of women admire you, A lot of women look up
to you that are going through something like this, and
we wanted to make it light. Yet we wanted to
make sure that like it had some meaning and that
people can you know, identify, and we did that. You
can see, in a matter of minutes, they outpouring of
comments of saying, You've made my day, You've made me
(16:32):
so much stronger. You have really given me the strength
to do this, like I mean for weeks. I don't
know if you remember. It was just like unbelievable the
amount of people that you touched by sharing that moment.
And that's invaluable, you know, like people and a lot
of people don't realize the impact that you can have
on someone that's been sitting at home by themselves going
through something like this, and they watch this post and
(16:54):
they're like, if she can do it, I can do it,
And that's very powerful.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't something obviously I was prepared for.
As you know, when you clicked the you know, go
button on my Instagram, I remember I did. You were
like you do it? Yeah, I mean I couldn't. I
wasn't to be honest. I wasn't brave enough, right, I
was so scared and and you were like, no, we're
doing this, like we're doing this and you did, and
(17:21):
I just looked at you. I was like no, what now? What?
Like social media was still new at that point, and
it was also like what is going to happen? Like
are people where is this going? Yeah? Are people going
to be upset with me that I was you know
this wide or the word that I that I hadn't
been honest from the very beginning, right that, like the
(17:42):
moment I got diagnosed, I wasn't instantly on saying hey guys,
I just got diagnosed with breast cancer. Like how would
they feel? How would they react? And how how would
it impact like future work for me?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Of course, which that was a big thing, like now
I'm going to be the sick person who's going to
want to work with me?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, And which is still an issue like to this day,
like there are people who you know, like to be
like ah, you know, like she might be too hard
to ensure or you know, well, how is she like
it's her memory? Okay? And I'm like, did I have
a photograph you've ever been? Yeah? I think we should
(18:22):
worry about all the people's issues more than this. Yeah.
I think that you're can run circles around most humans.
So put one thing in front of me and I'll
have like two seconds to look at it, and it's
memorized and it's in involved. It was very, very, very scary,
and you made it. You made it less scary. You
helped with your humor and and just your like general love,
(18:43):
like you're a very loving human being.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well, I always say I would like to leave the
room and be like, wow, she was so nice, not
wow she was so pretty. That's so much better. I'd
rather be nicer than pretty.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I'll take both.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, I'm gonna say I care, but isn't it much
nice to be like wow, she was so nice and
she was beautiful? Yeah, but the inside pard you know.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I nowadays I think I think now I go for like, wow,
she was so smart and funny, Like that's my favorite
thing to hear. I do like it when people say beautiful,
of course, because really I don't, and because I don't
feel it anymore, which is so crazy. I've gotten better. Yeah, specifically,
(19:27):
like in the last few months. This isn't like a
long time. It's literally probably like the last month really
two months that I started feeling attractive again. But before
that I was feeling as you know, because you're incredibly knowledgeable,
particularly about the beauty field, and about products that work,
(19:51):
products that don't work, techniques that work, you know, lasers
that are good for you, lasers, information. You're like a
wealth of knowledge. And I always call you and talk
to you about it first because I know that you're
going to be like, do not get that you have
the wrong skin type for that particular laser that's going
(20:14):
to mess you up? Or Yeah, they're charging you know,
X amount for that serum. It's way repriced. You should
get this one that's only thirty dollars. You have a
podcast that you do that's all about wellness, that's like
about your gut, and you do it with Jamie. Can
you tell?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I said, so, it's called beautiful things set out because
the beauty comes from within what we put in our bodies.
I have this argument with Shannon all Lots. I don't
know if you guys follow her on Instagram. I make
courage drink the green juices you know before and after
chemo try to like clean her system out. At first
she was like, this is disgusting, and now she begs
(20:54):
me to bring her grain juices.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I was actually really disappointed that you did not bring
me grain juice today, So do you want to know
the truth? You made and then you drank it. I
went to make it, I got all of.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
The ingredients, and then I forgot one of the main ingredients,
so it's like, hmmm, what am I going to do?
So anyway, so I made it with blueberries and I
took everything that I had in the freezer frozen and
threw it in there.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And it was good.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
But I just it was like these weird purple eh
burgundy collar. I was like, there's no wish she's gonna
want to drink this.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I mean, I got made to drink green juice, so
you know, but instead you brought Peter Booth today. So
that was perfect. That was so good. It was really good.
I feel like because I was always so small, people
assumed that I didn't need as much food as they did,
(21:49):
and you would go for more, so like the food
would all be gone and I would and I was
a more slow eater and which is supposed to be
really just to make it for you and the would
be gone. And I was like, like, do you like,
excuse me? Did I not want some of that appetizer?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And I remember with some in laws that I had
at one point in time in my life, it was
like the first time I had met them, and lovely people,
and they like they made food, but it was here's
what I was eating, and then here's what because it
was cooked a different matures, and then here's what everybody
else is eating. And mine was like a super small portion,
(22:26):
and I guess it was well done. I remember looking
at that being like what And I'm like the I
was offended. I'm like like, excuse me. I'm like listening.
My metabolism is just fast, That's why I But I
love food and I wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Some mistake that people make of the two of us.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And yeah, and you're the exact same way, and like.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Room, there could be twelve people here eating and she
and I will clean out the kitchen, clean out the kitchen,
and then we don't stop moving the next day cleaning
the kitchen cleaning. Okay, so back to back to your podcast,
Beauty from the Inside of Beauty from the inside out
because you really do like believe in that and.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You like things, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think that I kind of got into the wellness.
Let's just backtrack for a second. I didn't grow up
like that. I grew up eating and loving food in
Puerto Rico, right, but not necessarily the healthiest food. A
lot of the food is fried. There's just a lot
of like not healthy ingredients delicious and it makes you
(23:29):
really happy and everyone's really happy at the end of
the meal. But I think when I decided that I
wanted to get pregnant, I went on this rabbit hole
of like how do I prepare my body to be
the cleanest, And then I went into this journey where
I was like really trying to understand how food affected
(23:51):
our body. And from there on, you know, I have
done every cleanse, every diet from the original juice cleans,
which by the way, are so bad for you now,
Like I've tried everything that has come and gone until
I finally found a really good balance of eating the
(24:12):
things I like, having lots of desserts. As you know,
I'm obsessed. Channa makes the most insane blueberry bread putting,
bread putting, and then she puts the glaze over it.
So anyways, listen, I constantly Actually, I don't want to
make it seem like it's so easy, because it's not.
It's a constant battle for me to balance what's good
(24:35):
for my body and what my brain wants. And that's
kind of how I ended up in the journey with
doctor Jamie, who I get introduced by Channa's and I
trainer who use all the time Kira, and she's one
of the best introductions I've ever had because she is
so good at just explaining things in a simple manner
(24:59):
and there is zero judgment coming from her, So doesn't
matter how you like to do it, how difficult or
easy it is for you, She's just going to be
in that journey with you. And I remember, I think
maybe three four meetings with her. I said to her
(25:19):
one day, I was like, I've people have asked me
before to like do podcasts about this. The other I said,
I've never had an interest because I do not want
to hear myself speak. I don't think anyone cares to
hear Anne Marie by herself talking about this stuff. I said,
but I would love to do this with you because
I would love to do like wellness for dummies, And
(25:39):
what I meant by that was that I can have
all my questions prepared and have her answer them as
if I was the patient, And it was so fabulous.
From the moment we started, it was just left.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Since knowing you and since you went on your sort
of beauty journey and discovering what was like really good
for your body and what to put in it, I've
gotten much better. Yeah, and yes, you sometimes have to
bring me juices or you have to come here and
use my juicer. But I've definitely become a lot more
aware because you can see it. Yes, your eyes, the
whiten your eyes gets clear. You feel better by yourself.
(26:16):
I'm sure that you have days where you've done kimo
and you wanted a burgroom fries, which, by the way,
I approve every day in and out whichever, and the
days you do the juices, it just you do feel better.
Once mentally better, the other one's physically better. And they're
both good because one day you need one, the next
day you need the other. It's not just one thing.
(26:39):
You can be happy with the way you eat, the
way you exercise. It doesn't have to be all in
or all out.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I mean, we're living in a very like extremist world.
You know, we keep extreme. It's very it's either weird,
like this direction or that direction. It's like we're too skinny,
we're not healthy enough, right, think about that. Like I
was told once I wasn't I was unendurable, and I
was like, what are you talking about. I was on
their weight for my heights, and I go, would you
(27:07):
like to follow me for the next week because there's
nothing else I can't do. That's really interesting because you know,
like the United States, they have the thing where it
gives you, like what your ideal weight should be, But
what they don't take into account is that sometimes what
they claim is the ideal weight is too thin for
(27:30):
some people and too heavy for other people, because your
bones really make a difference. Like I'm very fine boned
and so are you. So the extra weight and believe
you know, it wasn't that long ago that I had
a lot of extra weight on me, Like the meds
that I was on and everything else. It's not even weight,
(27:51):
it's just water retenne was yeah, water retention. It was
a lot of weight. I was extremely depressed. I was
on meds, that were, you know, messing with me, not
like cancer meds, you guys. You know, I'm sure other
people think I should be on other meds, but I'm
talking about the cancers. So I put on like a
(28:13):
lot of weight. I've never weighed that amount, and I
I couldn't stand myself like I was really well just.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
For the physical part, because it just doesn't feel good
to you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh, I felt like none of my clothes fit me.
I felt gross. I just didn't go to other people
that were like, oh, she looks so healthy, right, and
You're like what, And I'm like, I'm not healthy, Like
this is not healthy for me. This is too much
weight on my body. It's too much weight on my bones.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Where we all don't fit in that one box, so
it's impossible, and we all have a different like body mass, bones,
like everybody has a different thing, and so you really
have to figure out what is what is your version
of healthy. Yeah, it's the same with skin, It's the
same with all of it. It's like you have to
find what we're for you.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
You know, you look at j Loo for instance, and
I'm bringing her up because I was in Italy in
August and she was there and she was, you know,
as close to me as you are. And I was like,
how does she have this skin? Like She's like she
takes care of herself, Like she does a lot of
the things I do, and she's been doing it forever,
which is like prevents it but still that you know,
(29:23):
but yeah, I have to I have to be Yeah,
we have completely set who I am, my genetics, and
then go all right, how do I get to the
best version of my skin that I can possibly get?
So going into that as you know.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Especially with all the cancer mats, right, That's what I'm
thinking about that, right, Like it's the same with like
your hair. Everything's gonna you know, people never know how
the hair is going to grow back, right, the same
with your skin. Your skin might get thinner, it might
get thicker, it might get more wrinkled, it might get
more light and get more great through all the years,
your skin's changed the law, you know, depending on the
mets that you were on, your skin was changing. So
(30:00):
we have to like change what you were doing because
you're like, Okay, now I'm too early, now I'm too dry,
or my hair is doing this or too you know, like, yeah,
there's always going to be a different reaction when you're
going through these treatments, which is the thing that I
think a lot of people don't talk about, you know,
especially when they have cancer. Like I have these conversations
with my mom all the time, and I would say,
(30:21):
text Channel Jilla or text my other friend, and I'm like,
see what they're thinking, what they're doing. I mean, I'm
not sure how deep we want to get into this,
but there's a lot of other things that happen when
you're getting chema.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Okay, Well, I think that we don't feel as comfortable
talking about it because again it goes back to the
thing of others that don't have cancer and that are
not going through this journey. They they're like why, Like
you're just lucky to be alive, Like that's you should
just be focused on staying alone and who cares about
(31:01):
your skin? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I do,
because you know I'm anybody that's telling you that I
should not be part of your life, right, I'm a woman.
I care about how I look. I do eventually want
to meet somebody else. I do want to fall in
love again, but more importantly, I want to fall in
(31:21):
love with myself again, right, And I haven't felt great
about myself for a really long time. Like those cancer meds,
chemo radiation, everything, it sucked every bit of collagen out.
All of a sudden, I got a gazillion wrinkles. I
was like, what the hell is this about? And then
stress and stress lost My hair grew back. Then you know,
(31:45):
I had to do brain radiation, the hair like patchy,
then the treatment, the infusions. That's that you're still cracking
up and smiling. People really knew. Think about it. If
people really.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Knew, would you truly go every day ups and downs?
And you know, it's so hard, like to really grasp
I know that we should be grateful for everything we
have and be thankful and be so happy to have
a roof and to have food and to have water
(32:19):
all of these things, but like when did we stop
being human? Why can I have a bad day? You know?
And it's like you and I have this conversation which
I think I feel very comfortable having it with you,
where I'm like, you could be coming out of chemo
and you could be basically feeling like shit part of
(32:41):
me about to throw up in the highway on your
way home and I'm having a shit day, and I
feel okay telling you I'm having the worst day ever,
and you will literally stop and listen to me, And that,
to me is true friendship right there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It's also all relative, you know, like my crap day,
they're still just as important as each other's, Like my
chemo doesn't trump your day exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
But you taught me that you taught me. I remember
you yelled at me once because you're like, how did
I not know you haven't been feeling well?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And in my head I was like, because what you're
going through And you're like, what's wrong with you? That's
not really what you said, but I'm not going to
repeat it exactly where by word, and I will have
to believe you. Yeah, blig me a lot. And then
and you were like, in Mari, you're my friend. If
you're having a bad day, I want to know about it,
you know. And that is priceless because there are very
(33:35):
very few people in my life and in your life
where we can truly be ourselves. And that's that's priceless.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I mean you are because I know that you were
about to get into this and you're hesitant. So we're
going to there are things that I will only discuss
with you. And you know, one of the things that
I've been very honest with you about and we sort
of have gone down the path together you've like taken
me to doctor Cherry Ross, was what what cancer does
(34:06):
to your libido? What it does to I mean, listen,
when you're feeling not great about yourself, that's going to
kill your libido. But then when it actually impacts your libido,
when it takes when meds take your libido away, or
it makes you know, things not as pleasant, like sex
doesn't feel as good. Whatever it is women, particularly when
you get to a certain age like or when you
(34:29):
start going through menopause, is really I think when PM
talk about that, right, but that's when it all starts happening,
when like a woman's sex drive really really really changes.
And you know, there are some women who take a
lot of hormones for it in order to balance it out.
There's some women who don't want to take hormones, but
they still want balance well alternative things, and now we
have atortive things. Doctor Ross has really been a pioneer
(34:52):
in that area. So this is doctor Cherry Ross. She's
located in Yeah, she's a gynecologist, and she's listed, she's
in and Monica, she makes me blush a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I got to be honest, I know you're so much
more even though we're both conservatives in our own upbringings
and like our backgrounds. She like, I'm kind of like,
I think the model in business is a little bit
more open than the way you were. And I remember
sitting in the office with her, because of course I
took Shan into the op appointment and I sat there
with her because that's.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
What I do.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And I remember by the way she took me because
you know, I specifically said to her, like I, you know,
I need to do something. Things are not working, Things
aren't working, and this isn't the life that I want
to live. And you know, I also don't want my
husband to live like this, so I need to, you know,
figure this out. And so Amory next that I already
(35:47):
had a guynecologist, but she was like, no, no, no,
there's one person that you need to go to and
that's doctor Sherry Ross. So now keep going.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And so we went there and you know, she goes
and Channon gets her exam and she comes out. She's
like me, me, in the office. I'm sitting in the office.
She's got all these little these place of things.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Of toys. Then she goes, here's Shannon take this, and
Shannon like shoves it in her back. She's like, you
think you can see it? And I'm like, I'm like,
no one can see it, no one knows. Isn't there.
She's like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And she's like, you're going to take this home and
this is how you're going to use it. And she
was like Shannon was like, I've never seen her disembarrassed.
I was probably the only time. And and then the
next day, I'm like, so, how did it go? And
You're like, I'm not telling you, And I go, it's
still in your bag. It's and then she's like, yep,
still on.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
My bag, Still on the bag, Still in my bag.
I think it stayed in my bag for a really
long time. Uh she I mean listen, I'm I think
I'm turning red, just like your sweating. I can see
I was sweating. I'm like, oh my god, I need
to turn on the acy in hair. But people don't
understand that it's not you know, paramenopause, menopause, just getting older,
(36:57):
all of it impacts not just you know, your exterior.
It doesn't just impact your skin, but it's also impacting
the whole way that your body is reacting and responding.
And then you add to that cancer meds, you add
to that chemo or and it just zaps you of
of everything and it takes your confidence. Yeah, it takes
(37:21):
away your confidence. It takes away like your identity. And
like I, for the last solid couple of years, probably
four years, have felt like a boy. Like I thought
I looked like a boy. I am one hot looking boy,
thank you. I mean, I just you know, and obviously
(37:46):
there were other things you know now, I know that
we're playing into it about like you know, other contributing
factors into into how I felt. But at the end
of the day, like me feeling like that didn't help
anything in line relationship. Of course not because then I'm not,
you know, engaging with full confidence, which is a problem
in a relationship. It was impacting me.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Well, it's like you said earlier, it's like you have
to learn to love yourself first, and you weren't loving yourself,
so how can you even have somebody else love you?
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It's hard. I mean, the one thing I was like,
there's two things. One is a serious thing, which is
when I discovered you know, the intimate and fasting, which
really got like that first initial weight off of me.
I think I lost like ten pounds. I remember that
it was more than that. I mean I lost ten
(38:37):
pounds like two weeks, like quick, and while eating amazing
food and just you know, only eating between twelve and
eight and then being careful of what I was putting
into my body and you know, having prepared meals like
that really did it. And then then I always joke
that one of the most amazing things about my infusions
(39:00):
is that, you know, it made me throw up a lot.
So there was the wind cable of day. Yeah, I mean,
I guess this is the thing. Sometimes you just got
to laugh at it.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I mean you got to find the positive and everything right.
There is no other way around it. And honestly, you
can't laugh in life. I don't know what you're doing.
You can have bad times, but you got to laugh. Yeah,
I'm gonna make yourself laugh and cry cry while laughing.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I mean all of our New York trips. I remember
I was in New York and I was at Marquis
Noah Teppenberg's club, and I'm not going to say who
it was, but it's it was a you know, sort
of famous journalist, I guess, we could say. And I
was there. I started making out with him, and I
(39:50):
was not there. My friend was with me, who is gay,
and I got up to like go talk to someone
that I knew, and I came back and my gay
friend was making out with the journalist. Oh my god,
I know, and he took him home and I was like, well,
there goes that, there goes that. I guess he you know,
(40:11):
I guess. I guess my friend was more his type.
And that's awesome. But like those were the kind of
you know nights that we had back then, or at
least that I had, and you were you were probably
more well behaved than I was. I've always been a good,
well behaved child for the most part. It also made
it great for me. It was great. You were like
more of the responsible one and the one that would
(40:34):
look at me and be like, he's not that cute.
Trust me tomorrow, you're gonna you would regret it, like
let's go. And I was like, okay, cool, all right,
I trust Amory with that decision. We have fun, all right,
(40:54):
So this is good, and I know that it's I
know that it's like hard because there's probably not one
thing and you've kind of addressed it, But like, what
are your beauty routines currently?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Well, not currently, I think for the last two years
maybe a little bit more, I have really focused on
finding the perfect routine because I'm working on my own
little thing that may or may not be coming at
some point sooner.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I will be the first one.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
And I like to do a thing that I mean,
it's not my thing, but it's called skin recycling. So
basically what I like to do is try a lot
of different products in different ways, at different times of
the day, in different orders, until I just find that
good combination. I think I finally figured it out, but
I can't.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Tell you just yet.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
You're there, it's coming, So it is very important that
I'll tell you one thing that I've learned. The reason
you keep your skin moisturized glowy hydra, it's by sealing
the moisture in. So when you're applying a product, make
sure that you don't start with the dewey gowey stuff
(42:09):
first and then put the liquided stuff after, because that
doesn't make any sense, right, think about it. So you're
gonna put your yellow bomb, that's basically going to be
a barrier that's supposed to be your top. They're supposed
to keep all the things that you put in there
pressed in continue to hydrate you throughout the day.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
So for example, I'm gonna give you one for free, Okay,
thank you? You take you do missed. If you're gonna
do a toner, I like a missed. I spray it,
I pat it down. In the morning, I'll do a
hyaluronic acid, so you put it in while the skin
is stamped. People don't realize that you shouldn't put hyaluronic
acid on dry skin.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
You missed.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Do the hyaluronic acid. Then I do a serum or
an oil, they're pretty much similar, and then you do a.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Bomb on top. Right, So those are just a normal lotion, moisturizer.
Do you ever use this or are you a bomb girl?
You know, it depends.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
If I'm somewhere hot, I'll probably avoid the bomb, and
then I'll do a some protection lotion type thing. And
but for the most part, I find that at my
later age, as I may or may not be in
enter impairmental past, which people don't like to talk about
(43:28):
it because it makes you're old. I'm like, I don't care.
I'm going to own it. I'm gonna talk about it
as everybody knows what they need to do. I just
feel like I really need that extra help because what
happens is if you allow your skin to get dry
and dehydrate it when certain things happen it, that's when
(43:49):
you get like your wrinkles on your stretch marks, right
like it happens when a woman is pregnant towards the
end of the pregnancy. I always tell everybody, you've got
to really lotion that belly, like you gotta make it's
so gross that you can like pick it with your
nails because guess what those last thirty days, everything stretches,
everything changes, and if it's dry, you're gonna get a
(44:10):
stretch mark, you're gonna get a wrinkle. So the most
important thing is to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, And I always say,
you just try to delay as much as possible. And
how do you delay that process. It's by hydrating and
drinking lots of water, some wine at night, and lots
of vegetables. So that's kind of like, you know, I
(44:35):
do some other things. I do some treatments, nothing invasive.
I have yet to inject myself because I'm just petrified
of the needles. Yeah, so I mean this is you
can see I can move.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, I'm looking at you. Your face moves. Mine does too.
But I have had botox. Yeah, you've done it a
couple of times. Yeah, I've done it a couple of times.
I think the last time I did it was like
I think six months ago.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Okay, she didn't take me to that appointment.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
No, that was when I called you. That was with
doctor Jason Diamond. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's right.
He is great. It was the first time I've ever
been to him, that you went to him. He's great.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
He's so light handed that a lot of my friends
go to him, and he's lovely. He understands the skin
very well. He understands muscles. That's the one thing that
people really don't understand that you can really you need
to understand. There's so many things happening, there's so many
little muscles and nerves in the face that you inject
someone wrong. So that's why you're going to go for it.
(45:36):
I'm not disapproving, just goes somewhere where the person understands.
Plastic surgeons are great at the baby boatox that's what
they call it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
So I have I have, I've had a plastic surgeon
besides doctor Diamond do potox, and it was horrible, like
so bad. I walked in that like two days later,
like my husband looked at me and said, what did
you do to your I know, I'm I don't know
because we're not divorced yet. We're in the middle of
(46:03):
a doorce, so I never know what to call him.
It's okay, he's still a husband. He was like, what
did you do to your face? Like my like my
nose wouldn't even move. It was terrible. And then a
friend of mine suggested this other guy, doctor Bradley Freedman,
who is great. He's on Peko and like a really
small little there's totally understands like the muscle and how
(46:27):
to hit. And then and then I went to Diamond
because I wanted to get like an overall sort of assessment.
I wanted to be told like that I didn't need
a facelift, you know. I like went in to be like, oh,
I'm here. For a face of consult and what I
wanted to hear was like, no, you don't need any one.
In stead, what I heard was, oh, you're a great
candidate for it, and I was like, no, not yet.
(46:49):
It petrifies me, but that'll be an interesting moment in life.
Oh God, I don't know. I can make fun of you,
so you know, I don't know when they put that
wrap around your face, it really I will. You're in
the wheelchair, and I'll make fun of you the whole way.
I don't want to come out like a different person.
That's what you really have to frightens me.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
You know, there's technologies amazing these days. By the time
you actually get the gods to do it, which will
be another tenure, you don't even have to do that.
The technology will be so advanced, it'll be so easy.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
And you know, it's just I do believe.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
I like that whole theory of like starting early on
doing little tiny things to your skin if it matters. Yeah,
you know, I think that's there's nothing wrong with that.
I don't think there's anything wrong with anything.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Like do what makes you happy, right, And that's the thing, right,
is that there's such a sort of stigma of women
who people you know, they get the bowtops and they
get the lips done and they get a facelift, and
then they want to deny that they got any work done,
and and or people judge them and are like, you
got work done well first off, if they don't want
(47:59):
to tell you, it's not your business, like leave them
alone is my first thing. I watch it on Instagram
a lot where certain girls get accused all the time,
and I'm like, it's called filters. I'm like, yeah, by
the way, it's filters, a lot of filters. And but
it's also like it's none of your business, Like who cares.
(48:21):
It's up to you to be your own individual It's
not up to them to teach you how to be
an individuals.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And all these things can be private, not private. It's
it's all also, but it's also how you present yourself,
right because there's a movement right now of all these
people magically getting very skinny and they're like, oh, I
just drink this and.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Pick movement like all it like it is. I mean,
it's very unrealistic. You do not have diabetes and shoot
you up with something that listens for diabetes to ease
your own, but don't go and promote your workout line
right and your supplements asked to how you got that thing?
(49:02):
That's unfair, that's unhealthy for our children watching you and
following you. One hundred percent, that's my only problem. I
don't care if you want to shoot yourself with oozempic
every day you go for it. Here's the warning signs
you still want to do it, be my guest, but
do not lie to the children that are following you
by telling them that please take this upplement and do
(49:22):
this workout for fifteen minutes, because no workout for fifteen
minutes is crap, right, Because because people are impression makes
me angry. Can you see how my mood change? But
you're but you're right because you have a daughter who's
right in that age group of being, you know, impressed
by certain people and wanting to impressionable, wanting to look
(49:44):
like them. And guess what, I'm a lot older than
your daughter, just in case you didn't know, and I'm impressionable. Yeah, Like,
I don't mind. I look at women and I'm like,
how did they get that butt? How did they get
that face? Oh? I need to do their workout I
need to do this, and let me tell you. I'll
try for like a month and I'm like, yeah, nothing's changed.
Seven minute workout like doesn't work, doesn't hard work, We'll
(50:06):
pay off. Anyone can lose anything they want. Anyone can
build their best version of their body. But it takes
a lot of effort. So that's the only part I
have an issue with. Talk about the fact that it
takes a lot of work. I work out.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Listen, I go on and off. I've been on my
back door working now since I got better from my
crazy ear issue. I'm going on three month. This is
a hard one for me, and I'm curious of what
you think. As you know, like my hair has been
a struggle, particularly since like I started, so, I had
(50:44):
brain surgery in January, followed by brain radiation, lost some
of my hair from that, but also the texture of
my hair was a.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Text At some point there were we may have to
shave my head again, right, and then I'm on you know,
infusions and again every single three weeks. And you know,
it was only supposed to call light cause light shedding.
It did more than light shedding. And as you know,
I wore a hat NonStop to like cover it up,
and I got cigare wearing a hat and I found
(51:15):
this place that does It's called an interlace system. Okay,
Essentially it's a weave, right There's it's different than extensions
because extensions have a certain amount of metal in them
and I have to get MRIs all the time, so
I can't have any metal. Okay, So it's it's basically
like you know, a mesh with breathable holes that they
(51:38):
whatever hair you have left goes through. If you have
zero hair like some people, then they do tape. And
you know, I my hair was down to hear with
this interlace system and it was too long for me.
I couldn't manage it because I haven't had a hair
in a while, and so I got all this hair
all of a sudden. I saw the other night. I
was like, whoa, yeah, and I'm you know, I'm getting
(52:00):
used to the feeling of hair again. That was my
first question, Oh my god, does it feel right? You
did ask me that on the phone on FaceTime, and
I was like, it all feels good, except like this
still feels like I'm wearing a little bit of a hat.
But it looks great. Thanks. I struggle with it. And
here's the reason why I struggle, because I feel I
(52:20):
feel like I feel like it's my responsibility and that
it's also what I'm most proud of about myself, to
be fully authentic and transparent, but particularly when it comes
to cancer, I feel a lot of responsibility and good
(52:43):
responsibility right like I embrace it. But I have had
thoughts in my head about like, am I being inauthentic
right now? Am I? Am? I? Is my authenticity going
to be?
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Is it in question by myself because I'm not embracing
the full experience of going through what I'm going through
and with so many other women are going through And
like the first time, you know, we shaved my head
or I wore a scarf. Sometimes I went out completely bald,
(53:20):
but either way it was you know, this is me.
This is what happens when you have cancer. And I
think that just this time around, maybe it's going through
a divorce, maybe it's being my age. Maybe I think
you're thinking, maybe it's all of it. But I wanted
to like, I'm trying to feel somewhat normal and I'm
trying to like myself more. And I thought that having
(53:43):
hair might help and to a certain degree. It really
has helped. Like I'm like, oh, okay, I can be
pretty sometimes right there. Okay, I thought that the fact
that that's even going through your head, you're not being
like true to yourself or you're not being like real.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
You're insane. You're like the most real person when it
comes to sharing your cancer journey. You don't hide anything,
like it's all up for grabs, literally, So I think
you need to just and by the way, you might
be getting some people the god to be like I'm
gonna go do that way you shan't.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Do it, I can do it. I mean, by the way,
it is very It does lift you up a little bit.
There has to lift at something about it.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And having hair is part of a woman's feminine femininity.
It is part of what makes you sexy. It is
part of like going on a date and having pretty hair. Yeah,
hair is so important.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I meanwhile, your hair is growing underneath it, Like the
system is such a good system that your hair grows
so like hopefully it only gets better and better.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
It's amazing, Like the technology and all the things to
make you people that are going through what you're going
through make it a little easier because you you don't
change a bit of how you're handling this and how
you're sharing things. You are not an open book for
the most part. So thank you, Thank you for having me.
I love you, Thank you very blessed to have you
in my life. Thank you for being on I love
(55:11):
you all right, guys, thank you for listening. And that
was Amory Court right, my beautiful, amazing, wonderful friend. And
when I say beautiful, I truly do mean from the inside.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I'm her funniest and nicest friends. And that is also true.
So thanks to listening to Let's Be Claire with Shannon
Doherty and see you next time.
Host
Shannen Doherty
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