May 8, 2025 • 59 mins
Tori welcomes her friend Hilaria Baldwin to the show. Hilaria is taking back her narrative through her reality series “The Baldwins” and the release of her book “Manual Not Included." The mom of 7 addresses why people with larger families get so publicly judged, why she chose to do “The Baldwins," and what the stress of life around the trial was really like.
Do Alec and Hilaria want to have more children? Tori leaves nothing on the table as these mama bears relate to each other like no one else can. Get ready to hear the stories behind the reality.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hi? My friend?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My friend?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Oh my goodness, how are you doing. I'm okay, yeah,
I was up.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's it's Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's Tuesday, you know, still standing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Still standing, still standing, Tuesday. Do you find that weeks
are easy easier for your heard er for you with
the kids? Like weekdays?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Oh as you know, my friend, Like there's no weekday,
there's no weekend. There's it's just Michael say, are you
so happy it's the weekend. I'm like, never me, never know.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
For me, my because I have six in school right
now and just want at home snapping right now. And
it's like I just I just like when the weekend
comes around. I mean, I love it because we have
so much fun and we're going to the museums and
they go to the like soccer classes. There's so much fun.
But I'm exhausted. And when it's Monday and they're like,
(01:22):
I'm like, everybody's going to school, You're all going to
go good bye.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
See. I think I'm I think I am very code
dependent obviously, so I actually like when they go to school,
I'm like, like, meantime, what is this what does this
look like? It's oddly the quiet is like I don't
(01:50):
like it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. It's a
missing one of our eldest son has away for two nights.
First time he's away. Is that school just like this
outward bound thing? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I went, oh my gosh, and like last night I
was like one o'clock, I'm up and I'm like, he's okay.
I'm getting all these pictures like from the school, like oh,
he's having like the time of his life.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Like right, and you can't contact them and they're just like,
we will send you. It's just like so it's that
lack of like control of like that Oh god, it's
it's so hard. So so this is interesting. I'm trying
to think back when we became friends and we're and
(02:36):
when I say friends, I feel like we're friends, but
we've really only been like DM and text friends for years.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Which are sometimes the best of friends. I have like
really amazing relationships with people that I never met in person.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Same and I when we first started talking, I obviously
felt very connected with you because we were on this
mom journey together in the public eye, and it was
it just felt so soothing to have someone that could
(03:14):
relate on some level. And then we were kind of
on the same timeline. And then you had two more kids,
so you one that was.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
A little bit crazier kept on going.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh my gosh, Mama, I I would have kept going.
And and this is interesting because I know you and
I both get this a lot. Like have they heard
of birth control?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Have? Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Very well versed in it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I know. It's it's always amazes me people who
have the audacity opinion about other people's families. And you know,
I always think in my small self, so of course
we have like what we'll actually say, but then your
official self, we'll be like, one day, I'm going to
keep these comments and I'm gonna know who you are
(04:05):
and to show my kids, and they're gonna come and
they're gonna be like, why would you say that I
shouldn't exist? You know, like which one which one of
us should go back? Because one of the amazing things
about having And of course I don't say that because
that's not nice, but but you know, one of the
amazing things I've found. I don't know how you feel
about having so many kids, is they're all different, and
(04:30):
each one can have same parents, they could not have
same prins. It doesn't it doesn't matter. Just every single
kid comes out with your own soul, and you know,
if we allow them to be themselves and of course
guide them and you know, teach them right from wrong
and how to speak up for themselves and all the
things that we try to do as as parents. But
each one comes with their own soul and just letting
(04:52):
them be who they are. It's been one of my
greatest joys in life.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I I'm getting chills a thousand percent agree with that.
The uniqueness, and of course we guide them. And of
course some are more like I'm sure some are more
like you. Some are more like Alec. And the same
with my husband and I seem to be ex husband,
but my baby daddy, I guess I'll label in with Z.
That's on trend right. It's just that has been my
(05:21):
joy as well, seeing them grow and seeing like, wow,
you're you, you are your own being. And I mean
for me personally, we like ours came when they came,
and you know, we had we had dry spells, we
(05:41):
had years where we didn't get pregnant, and and I
look back on that, and I'm like, you know what,
there's soul contracts there, like they pick us, I believe,
and it's like they came to us and I don't know,
I can't. Here's the hard thing that you have to
deal with all the time, and I deal with it
(06:02):
as well, is that there's people across the world that
have larger families. Yes, but somehow that's that's okay. But
if you're in the public eye, if you are a celebrity,
you shouldn't. And it's like why.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Because everybody just wants to have an opinion. I mean,
you also look at women who are celebrities who are
in the public life, in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow, that was a Freudian slip. You said the public
lie like this. I think that's good that you.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Turn this into the public lie. I'm okay, we can
go we can go down a rabbit hole of that.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh yeah, we could.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But you know, in the public eye where they didn't
have any kids, and we don't necessarily need to know why.
Maybe they didn't want to, maybe they couldn't, maybe they
didn't find the right person and they wanted to do
this with another person and they get crap too. So
it's like you. Just the thing is that people, I
think it's more about the person who is doing the judging,
(07:08):
and they're going to find a judgment no matter what.
And I think for people, you know, like us, who
are empathetic and you know, purely for the fact that
you know, we're even discussing this, it's hurt us these
kinds of comments, and we're sort of like, why would
you say that about me and my family, my most sacred,
blessed thing, and they and the truth is that it
(07:29):
doesn't matter what we do, they're gonna say it anyway.
So I'm in a point, you know, I'm now in
my forties, and I'm at a point where I just
like want to like live life and be connected to
really great people and try to do good in the
world and try to raise my kids and just enjoy
a little bit more. And realizing that lu gat in
that sort of like defensive mode of trying to make
(07:50):
sense out of something that makes no sense whatsoever, Like
having opinions about other people's families makes zero sense, zero sense.
You just have to be like, Okay, you know what,
I'm gonna actually just somewhere else and then that's it.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That sounds great in theory. I know, I know, and
I'm I always say I have really thick skin. But
so I watched The bald Ones and really really enjoyed it.
I gotta say, my eight year old is your biggest
fan now.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So we actually started watching this, watching it before we
booked this interview, because I said, oh, this is mommy's
friend and look they have a big family as well.
And he was like, ugh, we have to turn off
YouTube for this, and I said, please give me a moment.
This is my This is a little bit of me
wanting to watch it, and I, you know, I need
(08:46):
a little me time too, because he controls me and
the TV. He's the youngest ones, my baby, so I
wrapped around all my fingers in my entire body. He's
got me. But I was like, we were watching and
then all of a sudden, I was like, Okay, you
have to do your homework, and he was going to
(09:08):
go do it with this older sibling, Stella, who is
very much like Carmen. I'll get to that, but and
he said, no, no, no, wait, I'm watching my show. Oh
I love that, and he and it was really nice
because what he took from it obviously is very different
(09:31):
what I took from it, and it was just such
an interesting perspective because it made him feel accepted in
a way that he got to see, well, they have
a big family too, look, and it felt so relatable
to him. And he was just like, oh, look they're
getting haircuts. Like wait, mom, you know he has long hair.
(09:54):
And he goes, do you think I could get his haircut?
And I said, yeah, absolutely, Like because people always say
to me, cut your kid's hair, what's wrong with you
having boys with the long hair? And I say, I
let them be who they want. I'm not telling them
they can't, you know, cut you know, cut their hair.
If they want to cut their hair, great, they can.
They can dye their hair, you know, safely.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
He done that, We've done the dying.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I'm all about expression. I want them to be able
to be them. But yeah, he said, no, you know what, mom,
He said, but if I cut my hair and it
doesn't look good, then I'm stuck with it and kids
at school will make fun of me. And I said, no,
hair grows back, it doesn't matter. And then he's paused
(10:42):
and he goes, well, they make fun of me anyway,
because I have long hair, and it was just such
a juxtaposition of like, wow, what you just said, taking
it back, like they make fun of you no matter what,
they hate you, no matter what. You can't win, and
it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And that's the thing that we hope our kids will
we'll learn. But a lot of times we we you know,
I find through parenting my kids, I'm parenting myself, and
I'm you know, once you can teach it, sometimes you're
actually teaching yourself. I mean when I was teaching yoga
more and I would teach other teachers how to be teachers,
and I would say, listen to what teachers are teaching,
(11:23):
that's what they're working on for themselves. And so you know,
with the with the kids, like just tell them, you know,
it's was never about you anyway. It's about them trying
to figure out what's right and what's wrong, and hopefully
they'll figure out that there is no righting wrong. It's
just let people live, let them, you know, express themselves.
And I love you know how you're letting him play
(11:45):
with you know, how he wants his hair. And I'm
sure in all ways because I can tell that that's
just the kind of person that you are, because you
never want to be your kids first fully, And I
think during these years where they're cute and the chemic
can get wait with them, and then they start to
get into eat and a lot of people say that
eat is one of the most challenged in years to parents.
(12:06):
I definitely believe this, and getting into the tween and
the teen years, you know, really becoming their friend and
fostering a good relationship with them, nothing is more important,
I think, because you want them to always know that
you have their back, you're on the side, that you're
the safe person that they can come to, and so
it sounds like that's what's happening and hopefully I'll be
(12:29):
able to do that with all of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And I saw you say on the show that you're
honest with your kids and you lead by that, and
I think, I you just said friendship. And again people
will slam people that say, like, don't be best friends
with your kids, and they'll see this and be like, oh,
they both said they're friends with their kids. But it's
important to me, like, of course i'm their parent and
(12:53):
I'm there, but I'm not trying to be their best friend.
I'm just trying to have an open communication. I grew
up in a different generation. Obviously I'm a lot older
than you, but like, I love that much. Actually twelve
years but.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, I didn't know eleven years.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I'll be fifty two in May.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Good, good, and enjoy life.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm starting to for the first time because I feel
like for the first time, because no one's ever allowed
me to be myself, you know, and I fed into
that for so long and now going through a divorce
and going through Sorry, this is about you and I'm
making about me.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
No, I love it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
This is stuff I've like wanted to talk to you
about for so long, but we're too busy talking about Bengals,
which oh my god. But yeah, I'm starting to be like, wait,
I I want to enjoy myself. I've always been authentic,
but I felt so judged that I'd have to like
(14:00):
kind of curtail to this and people please, and it's like,
I just want to be happy. I want to dress
the way I want to dress.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What are you doing for yourself to be able to liberate?
Like where do you think? Because that's really where I'm
trying to figure out again, Like you said before, in theory,
it's great, but in practice, it's really really hard, like
what are you doing that allows you to find that independence,
the self worth, the comfort of being like I'm going
(14:28):
to live life.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
My way, just surviving. It's like, I don't know, I
think the divorce really helped me have a voice and
help me kind of go okay. I felt like for
(14:53):
so long I was trying to not cover my acts,
protect what the world perceived, because from the moment, I mean,
you know, since the moment you two got together, there
was like, you know, she's so much younger, like is
she a gold digger? Why is she like so much shit?
(15:16):
But the moment Dean and I got together, it was like,
oh yeah, because we met, we were both married. You know,
she's a homewrecker. And I give them six months And
as you say, it's the noise, you're just like trying
to quiet it. But it's really challenging. And I think
for so long, even when we had our reality show,
(15:38):
I would try really hard to protect that. And we
had two different reality shows. We had Tori and Dean,
and that was more light hearted family stuff and it
was all authentic what everyone saw. But you know, when
any fights or stuff would have we kind of did
that behind closed doors, and we didn't want to prove
(16:00):
people right that it's like something's wrong. And then my
husband publicly it was infidelity, and the woman sold a
story and it all came out and it's like, oh,
you know, the curtain came up. It's like the Great
Oz and it's like, oh my god. You know, everyone said,
like you found your prints. I wish I had a
(16:21):
Dean and I wanted to say like, yeah, there's great
things about him, but there's also really dark things, and
there's addiction issues, and there's emotional issues and anger. But
I couldn't. So when that blew up, I did true
tory and I was just like fuck it, and I
just put it all out there. But then as soon
(16:41):
as you do that, everyone's like too much. Why are
you putting that all out there?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right? But it's not. And that's the whole thing I
started to learn. When you know, what I would do
press or people would ask me questions like well people
say and it's like, well, who's saying it saying it?
Or is there a group of people that who knows
how many there are if they really believe it or not?
(17:08):
You know, in front of our house, people say, you know,
the paparassi. Sometimes they'll say the craziest thing and the
only reason they're saying this is to get us to react.
So it's not And that's the thing. It's like, if
somebody wants to come and have a real conversation and say, Tori,
this is what I think about you, you know the
first then go back to the audacity, right, But it
(17:32):
really isn't. It's we are we have been able to
hide a system, and not just for people in the
public eye. By the way, this now is rampant among
children who are online now, amongst people in workplaces, on
their homes, like every it is everywhere now. This is
a relatable subject now. And when you and I first
(17:54):
started experiencing this, it wasn't relatable, right because it was like, oh,
oh my god, to cry I cry about No, it's
actually everywhere now, and so I think it's time to
have these kind of these conversations, but taking more seriously
and saying, hey, where are my boundaries? And ultimately I'm
only one person and one nervous system. And for kids
who are experiencing all these opinions and the bullying online
(18:16):
and stuff like that, they're a very underdeveloped nervous system
still you know what I mean, whatever scientific way to
put it, but they're still growing and the brain is
still forming and everything, and you know, it's we need
to clean it up and teach everybody boundaries, starting with
ourselves and then just hoping that other people will also
(18:37):
follow suit. But it is, you know, I find that.
You know, I'm very proud of you for what you
just shared with me, of being able to go and
just be like, I'm just I'm so sick of it.
I'm just going to show you. And that's how I
felt about the reality show. It's how I felt about
this book, you know, take it or leave it. But
I when I met Alec, everybody had the opinions. I
(18:58):
was like, all underprepared for what this public life world was.
I came from the yoga worlds. Everybody's really nice. It's
all about breathing and I must say and shabasana, like
everything's like really nice and happy, right, and then all
of a sudden, I get you know, I started getting Alec.
I put into this world and I have no idea
what I'm doing. And by the way, Alec Baltwman is
(19:20):
not like a great teacher on tarts of like how
to be in the public eye, okay, because he has
these opinions and his you know, strong feelings about things.
So I'm learning it through him. And you know, whether
people talk about you and it's kind or it's not kind,
whether it's true or it's not true, it's people talking
about you for you. And I think when you did
(19:43):
this project that you did, and you know, I've done
some of these projects that I'm learning I'm beginning to do.
This is us taking back, you know, and say, hey,
you know what, I'm a whole person and this is
these are these are my words, this is my voice,
this is who I am, and I'm going to continue
to evolve. You know, the pain that maybe you showed
(20:04):
on that show and you know is a pain that
you were dealing with, and it was very true in
that moment. And then maybe in five years is this
and another five years is this, and that's valid.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's totally about great because we're always changing or you hope.
You know, that's when there's a problem when people don't evolve. Yes,
So yeah, so now people say like, oh, she's a
hot mess, she's a train wreck, and I'm like I mean,
if my kids love me, I'm a great mom.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I work my ass off exactly. It's like if you're
a train red both, I'll get on that train reck
with you because you know then not, by the way,
this is a woman. When a woman uses their voice,
they stand up for themselves. They live the life, the family, everything.
They're survivor. You're survivor, you've been through a lot. Then
you know, people come and it is I think ultimately,
(20:58):
what it does is it makes people uncomfortable sometimes with
ourselves as women, like well, what this is against the
rules we have, like these rules that we've been like, yes,
we've been grained and this person outside of the rules,
and we like, are we're belonging to people? We're black people,
we got it? Like ring it in? This is not
an okay thing to do, you know. I mean, like
(21:20):
how many times people, you know, I post something online
or something and they're like, did you did you ask
your husband permission for that?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I was like, excuse me, You're like, uh, it's it's
twenty twenty five and nineteen fifties didn't have Instagram, so
go back to that.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So okay, y, yeah, yeah, no, no, truly true it is.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
We're conditioned. We're so But you know what I feel like,
you know, obviously watching you from the outside, I feel
like you are overcoming that you're owning that it's like,
okay to break that mold. And that to me is
inspirational because it's it's such and I don't know if
(22:07):
anyone will ever get past it. Like you know, it's
still you're supposed to. You know, you're supposed to be married,
You're supposed to you know, be like have all these
like things, you're supposed to hit and you know you're
supposed to have the two kids three years apart or
two years apart. Right, That's how like women plan things out.
It's like, Okay, that's what worked for them, and that's great,
(22:31):
but it doesn't work the same for everyone. And we
have to let people be themselves. And that's what we're
teaching our children and.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We're teaching each other. I mean, the title of my
book is Manuel Not Included, and the whole thing is
just like there's no man.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I love that title. By the way, thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It was like just this when I started.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Your book, and I'm loving it. And I got to say,
I haven't sat down with a book in so long
and I used to be a big reader. But I felt,
well for me at least at least knowing you a
little bit, like it was so relatable and I could
hear your voice coming out of it, and well, I
(23:12):
really max it comes out correct, ma.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Sex it comes out. But you know, I mean, what
I was going to say is that the other day,
off of what you were saying that, there was a
woman who stopped me at this copy shop that I
go to, and she said that she enjoyed watching her show.
And it's always so meaningful when people say that because
it feels so authentic and felt so cathartic at the time,
and she said she was excited about the book, and
(23:36):
she said, you know what I learned from watching your show.
I'm going to swear for a second because that was
her words, So if you guys have to cleep it up,
she said, you're one tough, strong bitch. And I just
felt like, because I don't know how you feel when
you go through her I don't feel like that all
the time. I you know, because I have so many kids,
and I don't want my kids that, even though I'm
honest with them, I don't want them to see me
(23:57):
cry or feel unsure, and of course they've seen that.
So I try to, like I'll close myself off and
like cry for like thirty seconds really hard, like try
to get it all out, and then I wipe the rips,
like Gartie, it's gonna come out and smile. But there's
how many times I was just like, I don't know
what to do. There is no manual for this. I
don't know, which is why it has this title. There's
there is no one right way, and there's nobody's telling
(24:19):
me because there's no experience that has really been had
exactly in the way that my life is unfolding and.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Never will be and never will be.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And when it is exactly, we're all different and we're
also similar, and it's just we're just a mixed we're
a mixed back. But when this woman, what I responded
to her was it was other strong, tough bitches that
got me through. And it could be people that I
knew that I had deep conversations with. It could be,
(24:47):
you know, people who I just met on the street.
It could be people who are not well known online,
you know, you know, inspirational people on It could be
famous people on the but it was women who were
living their life. Just like you're saying, I'm going to
come and be wrong. I'm going to show myself that
it gives me permission to try that, you know. So
(25:08):
I'm really standing on the shoulders of other women who
were brave enough to do what I am attempting, what
I'm practicing to do. And sometimes I get it right
and sometimes I get it wrong. And sometimes I try
and I mess it up, and I feel like I
would tray myself because I did it in the not
the way that I wanted to be And I just
told my friends and like cry about it and then
(25:28):
they picked me back up. But it's just a practice
because we've been so conditioned to do the opposite.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I completely agree. And now from what you are doing,
other women are able to stand on your shoulders. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean, we're all we're all in this together and
all of it all we are. We kind of live free,
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So It's interesting because it's women that we look towards
to have a community, to have, you know, a connection with,
but it's also women that simultaneously completely break us down. Yes,
which is something I hope we move past. Men while
(26:09):
we love them, it's you know, it's more of a
simple thing. You know, you never see you never see
men judging or going at other men, and it's like
they're living their lives and we just you know, it's
a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I don't know if you saw the episode, just to
bring a little like lightheartedness, because I thought it was
one of the funniest parts of my of the show
where Alec and I while I was pregnant with our
seventh whenever dear dear friends, who was on our first
day because I would only go out with Alec who
we went out in like a group situation, because I
was like, I don't know this person. So Scott Ellis,
who's amazing director on Broadway. He was on our first days,
(26:54):
our wedding. Him and his husband are just like love
them so much. He was directing play called Take Me
Out on Broadway, and I don't know if you heard
about Staking Me Out, but everybody is naked skate on
stage for like the majority of the play. Now, I
as much as I love Scott and we want to
like support him, I knew because I'm still friendly with
(27:15):
him and Alec is friendly with him. My ex boyfriend
was in the show that we went to watch that
I was trying not to go to because can you
imagine I'm pregnant with me my seventh sitting next to
my husband and my ex boyfriend is naked for like
what is an hour and a half or whatever a
Broadway show is, And so this just shows you what.
(27:38):
Alex knew that and he wanted you want, no, no, no,
I'm there like this looking at my lap the whole time.
It's really really awkward, and he wanted to go backstage
and say hello and shake his head like you were
so great. You know, he's like a younger actor. You know,
(27:58):
I've not done this same things that Alec has done,
and he's so so kind, and you know, just Alec
is just literally the best with other actors. And I
am just like like just don't know what to say
because it is the awkward position that like is the
most unrelatable experience, like no one else has had this experience.
And Alec on the show is like the most complimentary
(28:23):
of my ex boyfriend and his like physique, and I'm
just like, that's a man supporting a man. He's like, yeah,
he looks really good naked. And he said it in
other words that are a little bit more graphic that
I will let you go and take a look because
it's online. But can you imagine?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Wait, which how did I miss this? Which episode? Is
it in seven or eight?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I know, I feel like it's like, I don't know,
maybe six as something like that. I have to look,
I have to look back. But yeah, no, it is
one of the moments. And the best part about it
as well is no one asked Alec about this, and
he just like, like the you know, we were on
the couch and we're talking about different things and different
(29:04):
and he's.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like, during your sitdown interview, the producer didn't.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Ask no And that was like the funniest thing and
super complimentary and super kind about my ex boyfriend, about
us to see my ex boyfriend nick, you know, I
think that would make me very uncomfortable. I don't know
if i'd be like, you know, as positive as him.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
But that does some of his personality like he I mean, gosh,
the lives you guys have. You have to have a
sense of humor. Oh my god, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Absolutely crazy. I mean, if you don't laugh, you.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Was he like a boyfriend? Oh gosh, I guess you
can't answer this like a well endowed boyfriend, and.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
He was, No, he was. I think Alex called it
like a baseball batmanclarinet. But it's we can.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I love that, I know, like I.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Mean, it's like he has such comfort with himself that
he can go and say this when nobody asked him,
I'm not like tell the story, producers, not like tell
the story. He said, I'm just going to tell the
story and that's out.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's what's it up. I love that. That is so beautiful.
Do you, I mean, what was the reason you initially
wanted to do with the Baldwins. Did you feel sorry
not to put words in your mouth but no, no, no.
Did you feel because I know I haven't the past.
Did you feel like, I mean when it's great you
get to work with your family and that's I loved
(30:40):
that part of it. Did you feel like you wanted
people to find you guys relatable?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I mean, I think one of the most important things
to understand about me that I hope I can be
in the in the in both the book and the show,
is that I am a very impulsive person, always think
things through, not necessarily and I mean sometimes it doesn't
go well, but it's not in the typically reckless ways.
(31:07):
But you could consider doing a reality show starting to
film two weeks before my husband went on child that's
a little reckless, right, And of course it was something
that Alec and I chose to do together. But in
that time, you know, there was he was just in
such a hard place that I really had to stand
(31:28):
up and try to be the protector of the whole family.
And you know, I think a lot of times, if
I thought it through better, I probably would have been like,
all right, it's best to like just go into like
our little cave and like hide out here and try
to figure this out. But I think because of all
the people speaking for you about you again true not true, kind,
(31:50):
not kind, it was like, I want to speak, and
during a time when we're told not to speak, yeah,
and you know, we'd have people outside, you know, and
or in different things they would like, what would you say?
What do you say? And then you say something? How
dare you say something?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And again damned if you do, damned if you don't.
And the one rule is that you lose. And so
it felt as much as I think I didn't think
it through. I didn't really you know, think that you know,
far and ahead, I have ADHD and I think something
that's very typical of people, like as there's like the
timeframe people talk about there's now and there's not now.
(32:27):
So I'm like, We're just going to do it now.
I'm not going to think of it was that thing too,
just like now. And when that two week mark came
and everybody wrapped and we didn't film, you know, uh,
going to trial, it was just us, you know, kind
of we're going to break for three weeks, and I
look at the croon, I'm like, I'm not gonna we
all very close and I'm not going to see you
guys again. They're like, nobody knows what's going to happen.
(32:50):
Nobody knows. And then of course it went down the
way that it went down, and you know, we came
back in a week and our our producer flew back
from Sarah Ready, who's like going to be one of
my lifelong best friends, just from how amazing she wasn't
supportive through that really hard experience. She flew back and
(33:11):
beat us to our home and with her iPhone she filmed.
I think it's the beginning of episode three where we're
reuniting with the.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Kids, which is so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh oh my god, meet too. Even when I think
about it, and that's like, I barely remember that night
because I was so confused about like what is happening,
what is going on? And just to see, you know,
as much as when we parents are children through difficult
things to see, as much as we tried to protect
(33:42):
them and what you're saying, you know, I tried to
I am honest with them. So they had to know
they had to say goodbye to their dad, like they
may not see them for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And what'd you say? You said, Carmen said, should I
say a meaningful goodbye to dad?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Something like should I say to that like in a
special way, like I'm not getting something like I'm not
going to see them for a long time? And and
I said, yeah, I mean it like that's when when
children have seen darkness, and this is in all different
walks of life. If you tell them it's okay and
they're seeing it's not okay, then you are having them
(34:21):
question their sense of okay and and giving them false understanding.
Now we are strong, we will make it through. We
are here together, we are united. Yes, don't be so
darkened down because you need to summon the strength within
yourself to be able to give them part and encourage.
But you have to be real with them, you know.
(34:44):
And before you were saying something about you know, they say, oh, well,
I you know, don't be your kid's best friend. I think,
be your kid's best friend. But what kind of I
think everybody who worries about that, what kind of best
friend are you? Because I want to be the best friend.
I mean, like with my friends, I'm very honest with them.
I'm honest about client kinds. I'm not going to be
somebody who's like, you know, being like, yeah, let's go
(35:06):
do something extremely ridiculous and negatively reckless. You know, I'm
going to try to be there and be a good
influence and I want them to be happy. And so
I try to be my kid's best friends because you know,
I want them to know that a best friend is
going to support them and is going to help them
leave their best life. Do they have to eat their vegetables, yes,
(35:27):
do their homework, go to bed, be nice, all of
these things. Yes, I am mon, we have rules, but
I'm also a best friend, and best friends have rules too.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
This is true, and it's about redefining words I have
found in life that people have put a definition on
and it's like it's okay to say this ord or
have this meaning of something else, and how it works
for me and my family. And so to me, a
best friend is best advocate, like I am their best advocate.
(35:58):
And honesty, I just I got to tell you. I
watched the show and that's the part that just broke me,
but like in a beautiful way, because it gave me
permission to know what I was doing was okay. Was
when Carmen does ask you that question and you say
about should I say, I mean ful goodbye, special goodbye,
(36:19):
and you said you should, and I was like, she.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Should, and she actually came with us, you know. In
the end, I didn't know, you know. And I think
one of the complicated things. I don't know how you
feel about having many kids is traveling. It's very complicated.
And I actually never got into an airplane with all
of them until recently went to go visit my family.
(36:45):
My all family lives o art seeing and we but
at the time of the trial, I hadn't traveled with
all of them, and so I didn't know do I
keep everybody together? And I'm such the I'm going to
keep taking care of you know I talk about in
the book, He's got health scares. You always died, you know.
During this whole thing, there's been so many hard things,
(37:08):
and I just want to make sure you know I'm
hovering around all of them, trying to keep everybody safe
and together. And the idea that I would go and
travel so far from home and be away from my
children and I've never been away from before to go
into this very scary and unknown situation, yeah, I didn't
(37:29):
know how to do that. And so in the end,
and I knew that every decision I made was going
to be wrong and right at the same time. There
was going to be pros and cons. And so I
decided to take my two that weren't in camp because
the wounds in camp had a routine and I was
only going to be gone for a couple of days.
I was going to I was going to just go
and be with him, and he didn't want me to come.
(37:50):
He said, I you need to take care of our kids.
I need you to take care of the kids and
I'm going to go and face this alone, which like,
oh my god, bless it. And he's just so he is.
He is so tough, you know, and so not tough,
like you know that mix of the two. Anyway, So
I brought Carmen and I brought the baby and where
my best friends came and he's on the show. We
laid the rug together and he took care of them
(38:12):
during the day, and the baby I was, you know,
still nursing her, and I was, you know, she was
in bed with me, and or maybe I just top nursing,
but she was still sleeping in bed with me, and
she was teething, so all night long I'd have her
on top of me and giving her emotion for the pain,
and she's crying and jet lagged and all this sort
of stuff. And then you know, during the day we
(38:33):
go and every single morning Carmen would ask me, is
today the day I have to say goodbye to Taddy?
And you know, it's just the world can be a
hard place. World can be a hard place.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It can you say that you're impulsive, but I feel
like watching you you and I don't know how you
do it. I think because I know. I know you.
(39:12):
I know you as my text friend, but I know
a lot of people that know you, and not one
person has anything I'm kind to say about you. You're lovely,
your energy is great and people feel that. You know,
I feel that across a zoom and you can't mimic that,
and you're so kind. But I'm when I watch you,
(39:35):
I'm like, wow, I don't know how because you say
you're impulsive, but like I feel like everything you say,
I'm like hanging on every word. But I'm like, you're
so mindful of how you speak. Were you always that way?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I think I've always been, you know, I'm a Capricorn,
I'm a I'm a deep thinker. I remember when I
was very little and I would go to bed at
night and I would laying down and I would say,
how did I treat people today? And how can I
treat people better tomorrow? I don't know where that came from.
I sometimes think that we're old souls and I don't
(40:14):
even know. And it only started to hit me as
an adult, and that, you know, watching my children growth,
Like I come up with that from. But I do
think that it came I've always just been somebod who's
very connected to energy, and I want people around me
to feel good. I want people to be happy. I,
(40:36):
you know, very much was surrounded by people who really cared,
and I'm very blessed for that. I think that the
difficult parts of that is people who are wired like
me tend to give ourselves a way a lot. So
again I'm now I'm trying to learn and say, hey,
you know what, I'm going to give to everybody, But
(40:58):
I'm feeling really empty right now, and so I'm trying
to learn to connect with the people also who can
I can give to and then they're going to also
give with me, you know. And it can just be
this energy that we're giving, you know. I mean, good
energy from people is so energizing, it's so just it
(41:20):
just fills you up and it gives you hope. And
I think the impulsivity, it's not again I think the
word impulsive sometimes can can feel like such a negative thing.
But you know, as being the mother of so many,
like you can try to make a plan and the
plan's going to go bad, like it's just going to
go bad. Yeah, And I think it's just it's like
impulsivity it's flexibility and it's like okay, sure I'll try this, Okay,
(41:42):
I'll do this, you know. And and that's my mother
and I bought our belly button hears when when I
think she's when she was like fifty or something like that,
like I was like, sure, let's do it. And the
person who ap peers at least my value, but I
don't remember was like trying like learning, let's do this.
It's like that kind of thing. Let's try this now
(42:03):
that was gonna always work out well to find in
this party in this instance. But I think just like
being there and wanting to experience life, I think that
there's just a spontaneity and willing to try it and
willing to play and be curious. I think that's that's
something that's definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Vary me and you never want to let that go
like that. It's that light I call it, that is
inside of you that keeps you going, keeps your family going.
But to that note, like I know, I go through
this a lot. You're taking care of everyone, You're that
safe place for everyone in your family. Who does fulfill
(42:43):
that for you? How do you get that?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Oh, it's that like mom time how do we get
how do we get that? I don't know if I've
come up with the right thing yet. I definitely exercise
for me is extremely important part because of just sort
of my hyper nature. And I've been like that growing up.
I was, you know, many times the kid that was
(43:08):
like running around the classroom and I would, So I
run every day. And I have really really good friends.
I have really really good friends, and I'm so connected
with my family. My big brother is you're in a
huffold within me and I he just gives me so much.
(43:30):
And I think it's through connecting with other people and
just being like a little bit messy, just be like,
oh my god. And you know, I have one friend
who he and I will talk about absolutely nothing, like
we'rely taxi drivers. Maybe taxi drivers are actually talking about things.
I don't know, but like it's been in the taxi
and they're just like all day long, they're just on
(43:51):
like the phone. There's like a joke about it, like
that they're just talking and talking all day long. And
he and I are like this, I've just the word
like talking and we're just you know, it's it's like
a and it can be our conversation will from very
typical age from here. He also has to hear to hear,
to hear, to hear, to hear to hear, and it
makes sense to us. But like sometimes they will listen
and and you like, He's like, I can't handle the
(44:13):
two if you got annually. So I think it's just
having saved people, and you know, moving my body I
think is really important. A therapy. Love the therapy, Love therapy.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I just went back into therapy.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
That's the best. I don't know, how do you other
than other than therapy? What are you like?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't know the answer. I guess I was trying
to ask you for tips. I don't know because I
but I I'm the type. I've been like this my
whole life. I repress everything so and I'm a good
listener and I want to take care of people. I
want to save people. I'm trying to work on that.
(44:52):
And I'm a nurturer. So it's like I give, give, give, give,
and then I'm like, but wait, wait, wait, I'm just
pushing all my feelings down and it's it's near impossible
to do when you have a big family because there
are so many and while there's two parents, there's only
one of you, and it's the mom. You know that
(45:15):
you're just like, oh, a mom feeling and so and
the mom guilds like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
It's a real thanks one. We're never going to be enough.
But I think that part of a great lesson for
our kids is that they will hopefully learn that their
moms are humans too. Here people, And I say that
to them sometimes when it's just so much. You know,
I don't know if you've had the experience, but I
(45:44):
can have all seven of them shouting different things at
me at the same time. One's mad, one's excited. Was
just like it's all the different emotions, and it's it's
almost like a joke. You have seven children around this
one person, and I'm just like thinking, and I've said
to them a few times and be like, you can
break me. I can be broken a person, and I
(46:08):
can't be breakable. So like, I want to hear everything
that you guys are saying, but like I can't register
any of this. And sometimes they've learned a little bit.
They're like, I think mom looks a little overwhelmed right now.
And so just being able to focus and take time
and you know, I mean, and there's no you know.
The reason why you and I don't have the answer
(46:29):
for this is we need different things every day. We're
gonna wake up some days and we have lots of energy,
and we're gonna wake up some days and it's just like,
you know, I didn't sleep all last night, or I
just feeling down, or somebody said something to me and
that makes me so sad, and it got to me
and it shouldn't get to me. Now I'm mad at
myself that it got to me, you know. I mean,
it's just we are such fluid beings and I think that,
(46:52):
you know, ultimately, the more that we can tap into
what we're feeling and connect with ourselves. And I have
a first book that I that I wrote called The
Living Clearly Method that was much more to do with this,
and it was about connecting within yourself. I had a
very bad eating disorder for like twenty years, and I
(47:13):
have a great relationship with food now, which I would
have never imagined possible. But it really plagued me for
a long time. And I could have a completely rational
conversation with you about how Anirex and Blivia was bad.
I talk like this, and the same time, I think
that's really buy it's awful, this and this and this
and this, and then I would go home and I'd
repeat the pattern.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
And why I understand.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Be able to get into that point, and I would
basically get into a point where I would associate and
spiral and collapse, you know, I just would not I
would go into a place where my my uncomfortable, my
discomfort with my nervous system would take over and do
behavior that was self harming. And I learned that I
(47:59):
had to practice when I was in my good space,
these techniques of connecting with my body, my breath, my grounding,
my core, you know, and be very aware and clear
and everything should look much more clear, because when we associate,
everything kind of goes very inward and we lose touch
with our physical surroundings. And the more I practiced that,
(48:21):
the more when I started to get into my moments
where things weren't going well, where I was starting to
do this behavior that it wanted to not be doing anymore,
I could wake up from it. I can hold on
a little bit more. Little by little, I could hold
on a little bit more to me treating my body well.
And then I was able slowly and slowly but surely
(48:44):
to be able to, you know, fix my problem that
I had. But it wasn't rationalizing it. It wasn't taking baths,
chewing your food a certain amount of time. It wasn't lavender,
it wasn't any of these things. It was literally just
connecting with my body and staying connected all the time.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Now, having been through that and come out the other side,
do you feel in a different way? Obviously it's something
vastly different that you carry that over, the disassociation with
your life because of the public image and the critiques.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Sometimes I've gone through some you know, some moments where
I was just like, I was like, oh shit, I
thought I learned this lesson already, because you can feel it,
you know, when you're disconnected from yourself, and then you
have to forgive yourself, which is one of the hardest
things of just being.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Like I am a because it's trauma in a different.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Way, it's trauma trauma. It's also unnecessary and silly. But
you know, I mean, but but I I had to
try to use those techniques I try to learn from
you know, we all we all learned, we learned from
our our you know our difficult moments. You know, they
(50:00):
say think or swim, and if you swim, as a
as a fitness instructor, if you swim, you get stronger.
If I'm swimming, my muscles are going to get stronger.
And so oh well, you know, but you're a walker.
You know you're here. You walk. Either you walk or
you sit down. You you're a walker. But whatever it is,
when you continue to move through it, you're fighting through it,
You're going to get stronger, and that strength hopefully will
(50:24):
then when you get your next difficult moment, translate into
being able to deal with a little bit a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Do you feel like you guys are constantly in fight
or flight in some form?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I think that we have been for a very long time,
and I think that we are. It's something I the
question you as something that I think about every single
day for myself, and I try, because of my experience,
to calm and nervous system and notice when it gets
repped up again. I think my husband very much is
(51:07):
in fight or flight all the time, and I'm very
much as his partner. I'm trying to help him with that.
And I don't blame him because it's just it's just hard,
you know, but I always have hope that that he
(51:30):
can find some kind of connection and peace because he
has so much to live for. You know, we've got
We're so lucky in so many ways. You know, we
talk a lot, but the hardships, there's so much joy
that we have, and you know, leaning into joy in
our children and then just say the silliest things all
the time, like our little babies. She's all into one minute.
Everything is like she's like, negotiating with you doesn't even
(51:51):
make sense. She's like a want more. She can't say see,
so she says to like calmness Tarman. So she says
a lot more tape for for Kate. And I'm like, no,
you just had And she's like, no, just one minute,
just one minute, like want more, cat one minute? And
like something's so simple like that that every parent probably
can relate to the kids just says something. You think
it's the funniest in the world because you're watching them develop.
(52:14):
That's the small things that I think we need to
lean into. Then we'll teach us to, you know, to
see the things that really matter in life.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
It is it's the it's the simple things, the small things,
the simple joys. And I think it's easy to let that,
no matter what circumstance you're in, kind of get out
of control because you feel like you're always and even
not meaning to compare yourself to what others have or
(52:47):
do or act, and it's just it's a constant thing.
Do you do you think you guys will have more children?
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Oh, Alex really wants more kids? Like really really?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
And I have you frozen your eggs? I wish I
had frozen my eggs.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Dead my eggs. We well, we did. We have one
surrogate baby, right, So I tried iv A one time.
It went not in the way that I wanted to,
where everything seemed like it was going to be fine,
and then I lasted maybe like four or five months,
which was not was not a fun experience obviously, and
one that is all too common. And so I I
(53:25):
got pregnant naturally like I did with you know, my
other ones. And I don't know if the right terminology,
if I'm saying the right terminology, I don't want to
offend anyone because I know it is such an emotional subject,
So forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology. And
then I my I was like, I can't put another,
(53:46):
this other embryo inside because I feel like my body
rejected that process. I don't know why. In the look,
I mean, that's probably a completely irrational thing. There was
no explanation to what had happened, but I was so
sure at the time. I was like, I can't. So
I did serge at the same time that I was pregnant.
(54:06):
And so that was my experience with the whole the
free the freezing of it. So and I love it.
We have you know, that's Edwin rylu. We called them
the did this. They're like five, They called themselves. They
called each other, did they when they were a little?
And they account like then they're not Wins. It's just
like a little but they it's such a beautiful thing
because they're so connected. But I don't know if I
(54:27):
if I have more kids, I feel like, hold were
you when you were your.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Last forty four?
Speaker 2 (54:36):
So let's see. It just turned and they.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Say that it's a five percent chance of conceiving naturally
at that point. But I can't imagine my life without him.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Well I wasn't. I'm never goo in math anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Like you, so if it's meant to be.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
If it's meant to be, yeah, well we'll we'll see
Alec very much. I think he's it's always been a
beautiful thing when we've had another kid, and I think
that that's something that he leans into when he's thinking
about how to create more joy in his life, is
that they bring us such joy and there's just so magical.
But we'll see. I'm tired, right.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Well, I guess it depends do you like even numbers
or odd numbers? Because you have an odd number right now.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
We have an odd number.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
But that always did it for me. I was like five,
Oh my god, exactly right. And if I had one
more girl, i'd have a Brady bunch. If I had six, well, I.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Also have Ireland's my stepdaughter, so i'm a little I'm
eleven years older than her. So it's also like a
super fun relationship. And I'm kind of a grandma too
because Ireland has a eight me now, so it's you know,
it's a it's a pretty wild bunch we all have.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
It's so fun, it's so beautiful. I love you, and
I know I don't even know you really would like
I'm telling you, it's like I've always felt so connected
to you, and I I'm sorry honestly for what people
say and what they're going to continue to say, because
it's not going to get easier in that respect. It
(56:10):
just is the life you live. And you didn't sign
up for this part. Alut didn't sign up for this part,
and it's a really unfortunate thing. And thank you, and
I feel and it's so beautiful how you're getting through it.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
No, thank you the same and the same for you.
I know it's very painful. But one of the most
important things I always have to remember is there are
more good people saying positive things then people say that
there are. It's really really true. Just it's the under
Alec taught me this. He's you know when Carmen and
somebody said something to Carmen one time or another kid, and
(56:43):
he said, this is natural that you try to make
sense that of something that doesn't make sense, and you spiral,
and you spiral and you spial, and this is why
negativity gets so much attention. You're trying to figure out,
especially if you're an empathetic person like you are. You know,
you you want to be like, why can we just
be friends like this? Could just be good. Yeah, and
so I think, no matter how much when we acknowledge
(57:06):
the negativity, it's so important to then say, Okay, I
know this is hard and it sucks, but look at
all these great things over there, and then you hyper
focused benefit of ata, hyper focused towards the positivity, and
then you're just like you know what, you go over there,
go over there.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
And I feel like people like us with good energy,
positive people, positive positivity seekers and doers, I feel like
we do win in the end. Look, I hesitated. I
wanted to come through strong with that one for you,
But you know I have moments where I'm like, did
the good guys ever win? Like? You know, we're good people,
(57:48):
you know, in a heightened situation that because people don't
find it relatable that they feel that they can do that.
So but we're good people will come through it. Are
you going to get any more Bengals from Bengals Embrace?
You know?
Speaker 2 (58:02):
I have four?
Speaker 1 (58:04):
I know She's like, I know I relate to Alec
because I'm deeply allergic to cats and we got two
because of you for them.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
No, they are the best. I would love the bad cat,
all the cats, all the dogs, all the kids, all
the horses. I just want all of them all the time.
But I feel like i'm always because I got two dogs.
I didn't tell Alex. Actually didn't tell him about any
of the cats either.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
They're just a right like I used to do that
with Dean. He'd like, but you didn't ask me about this,
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
Like, it's cute, and he loves them, even the cats,
even I could tell yes, No, it's it's a very
it's I know he's gonna be mad at me for
like maybe thirty months, illid thirty minutes. He's very angry,
and then he's like and then he's fine. I mean,
his excelly. Kim had like so many animals. She's so wonderful.
(58:59):
She's always, you know, rescuing dogs and she's done such
incredible things. And I'm like, well she has eleven and
I'm like, I don't have eleven yet, so yet, yes,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Well, I hope to hug you in person one day.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Thank you for having me on. You're very kind and
very inspiring and I'm so grateful to to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Back at you. Well, next time I'm in New York,
I'm gonna I'm gonna come see you and pick up
another bangle, probably another.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
We'll go see James together.
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Perfect. Oh you would love that. Okay, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Thank you so much. This was really fun. Thank you you,
and
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Tell Aleci I will by
Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hi? My friend?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My friend?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Oh my goodness, how are you doing. I'm okay, yeah,
I was up.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's it's Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's Tuesday, you know, still standing.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Still standing, still standing, Tuesday. Do you find that weeks
are easy easier for your heard er for you with
the kids? Like weekdays?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Oh as you know, my friend, Like there's no weekday,
there's no weekend. There's it's just Michael say, are you
so happy it's the weekend. I'm like, never me, never know.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
For me, my because I have six in school right
now and just want at home snapping right now. And
it's like I just I just like when the weekend
comes around. I mean, I love it because we have
so much fun and we're going to the museums and
they go to the like soccer classes. There's so much fun.
But I'm exhausted. And when it's Monday and they're like,
(01:22):
I'm like, everybody's going to school, You're all going to
go good bye.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
See. I think I'm I think I am very code
dependent obviously, so I actually like when they go to school,
I'm like, like, meantime, what is this what does this
look like? It's oddly the quiet is like I don't
(01:50):
like it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. It's a
missing one of our eldest son has away for two nights.
First time he's away. Is that school just like this
outward bound thing? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I went, oh my gosh, and like last night I
was like one o'clock, I'm up and I'm like, he's okay.
I'm getting all these pictures like from the school, like oh,
he's having like the time of his life.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Like right, and you can't contact them and they're just like,
we will send you. It's just like so it's that
lack of like control of like that Oh god, it's
it's so hard. So so this is interesting. I'm trying
to think back when we became friends and we're and
(02:36):
when I say friends, I feel like we're friends, but
we've really only been like DM and text friends for years.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Which are sometimes the best of friends. I have like
really amazing relationships with people that I never met in person.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Same and I when we first started talking, I obviously
felt very connected with you because we were on this
mom journey together in the public eye, and it was
it just felt so soothing to have someone that could
(03:14):
relate on some level. And then we were kind of
on the same timeline. And then you had two more kids,
so you one that was.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
A little bit crazier kept on going.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh my gosh, Mama, I I would have kept going.
And and this is interesting because I know you and
I both get this a lot. Like have they heard
of birth control?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Have? Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Very well versed in it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I know. It's it's always amazes me people who
have the audacity opinion about other people's families. And you know,
I always think in my small self, so of course
we have like what we'll actually say, but then your
official self, we'll be like, one day, I'm going to
keep these comments and I'm gonna know who you are
(04:05):
and to show my kids, and they're gonna come and
they're gonna be like, why would you say that I
shouldn't exist? You know, like which one which one of
us should go back? Because one of the amazing things
about having And of course I don't say that because
that's not nice, but but you know, one of the
amazing things I've found. I don't know how you feel
about having so many kids, is they're all different, and
(04:30):
each one can have same parents, they could not have
same prins. It doesn't it doesn't matter. Just every single
kid comes out with your own soul, and you know,
if we allow them to be themselves and of course
guide them and you know, teach them right from wrong
and how to speak up for themselves and all the
things that we try to do as as parents. But
each one comes with their own soul and just letting
(04:52):
them be who they are. It's been one of my
greatest joys in life.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I I'm getting chills a thousand percent agree with that.
The uniqueness, and of course we guide them. And of
course some are more like I'm sure some are more
like you. Some are more like Alec. And the same
with my husband and I seem to be ex husband,
but my baby daddy, I guess I'll label in with Z.
That's on trend right. It's just that has been my
(05:21):
joy as well, seeing them grow and seeing like, wow,
you're you, you are your own being. And I mean
for me personally, we like ours came when they came,
and you know, we had we had dry spells, we
(05:41):
had years where we didn't get pregnant, and and I
look back on that, and I'm like, you know what,
there's soul contracts there, like they pick us, I believe,
and it's like they came to us and I don't know,
I can't. Here's the hard thing that you have to
deal with all the time, and I deal with it
(06:02):
as well, is that there's people across the world that
have larger families. Yes, but somehow that's that's okay. But
if you're in the public eye, if you are a celebrity,
you shouldn't. And it's like why.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Because everybody just wants to have an opinion. I mean,
you also look at women who are celebrities who are
in the public life, in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow, that was a Freudian slip. You said the public
lie like this. I think that's good that you.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Turn this into the public lie. I'm okay, we can
go we can go down a rabbit hole of that.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh yeah, we could.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But you know, in the public eye where they didn't
have any kids, and we don't necessarily need to know why.
Maybe they didn't want to, maybe they couldn't, maybe they
didn't find the right person and they wanted to do
this with another person and they get crap too. So
it's like you. Just the thing is that people, I
think it's more about the person who is doing the judging,
(07:08):
and they're going to find a judgment no matter what.
And I think for people, you know, like us, who
are empathetic and you know, purely for the fact that
you know, we're even discussing this, it's hurt us these
kinds of comments, and we're sort of like, why would
you say that about me and my family, my most sacred,
blessed thing, and they and the truth is that it
(07:29):
doesn't matter what we do, they're gonna say it anyway.
So I'm in a point, you know, I'm now in
my forties, and I'm at a point where I just
like want to like live life and be connected to
really great people and try to do good in the
world and try to raise my kids and just enjoy
a little bit more. And realizing that lu gat in
that sort of like defensive mode of trying to make
(07:50):
sense out of something that makes no sense whatsoever, Like
having opinions about other people's families makes zero sense, zero sense.
You just have to be like, Okay, you know what,
I'm gonna actually just somewhere else and then that's it.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That sounds great in theory. I know, I know, and
I'm I always say I have really thick skin. But
so I watched The bald Ones and really really enjoyed it.
I gotta say, my eight year old is your biggest
fan now.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So we actually started watching this, watching it before we
booked this interview, because I said, oh, this is mommy's
friend and look they have a big family as well.
And he was like, ugh, we have to turn off
YouTube for this, and I said, please give me a moment.
This is my This is a little bit of me
wanting to watch it, and I, you know, I need
(08:46):
a little me time too, because he controls me and
the TV. He's the youngest ones, my baby, so I
wrapped around all my fingers in my entire body. He's
got me. But I was like, we were watching and
then all of a sudden, I was like, Okay, you
have to do your homework, and he was going to
(09:08):
go do it with this older sibling, Stella, who is
very much like Carmen. I'll get to that, but and
he said, no, no, no, wait, I'm watching my show. Oh
I love that, and he and it was really nice
because what he took from it obviously is very different
(09:31):
what I took from it, and it was just such
an interesting perspective because it made him feel accepted in
a way that he got to see, well, they have
a big family too, look, and it felt so relatable
to him. And he was just like, oh, look they're
getting haircuts. Like wait, mom, you know he has long hair.
(09:54):
And he goes, do you think I could get his haircut?
And I said, yeah, absolutely, Like because people always say
to me, cut your kid's hair, what's wrong with you
having boys with the long hair? And I say, I
let them be who they want. I'm not telling them
they can't, you know, cut you know, cut their hair.
If they want to cut their hair, great, they can.
They can dye their hair, you know, safely.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
He done that, We've done the dying.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I'm all about expression. I want them to be able
to be them. But yeah, he said, no, you know what, mom,
He said, but if I cut my hair and it
doesn't look good, then I'm stuck with it and kids
at school will make fun of me. And I said, no,
hair grows back, it doesn't matter. And then he's paused
(10:42):
and he goes, well, they make fun of me anyway,
because I have long hair, and it was just such
a juxtaposition of like, wow, what you just said, taking
it back, like they make fun of you no matter what,
they hate you, no matter what. You can't win, and
it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And that's the thing that we hope our kids will
we'll learn. But a lot of times we we you know,
I find through parenting my kids, I'm parenting myself, and
I'm you know, once you can teach it, sometimes you're
actually teaching yourself. I mean when I was teaching yoga
more and I would teach other teachers how to be teachers,
and I would say, listen to what teachers are teaching,
(11:23):
that's what they're working on for themselves. And so you know,
with the with the kids, like just tell them, you know,
it's was never about you anyway. It's about them trying
to figure out what's right and what's wrong, and hopefully
they'll figure out that there is no righting wrong. It's
just let people live, let them, you know, express themselves.
And I love you know how you're letting him play
(11:45):
with you know, how he wants his hair. And I'm
sure in all ways because I can tell that that's
just the kind of person that you are, because you
never want to be your kids first fully, And I
think during these years where they're cute and the chemic
can get wait with them, and then they start to
get into eat and a lot of people say that
eat is one of the most challenged in years to parents.
(12:06):
I definitely believe this, and getting into the tween and
the teen years, you know, really becoming their friend and
fostering a good relationship with them, nothing is more important,
I think, because you want them to always know that
you have their back, you're on the side, that you're
the safe person that they can come to, and so
it sounds like that's what's happening and hopefully I'll be
(12:29):
able to do that with all of mine.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And I saw you say on the show that you're
honest with your kids and you lead by that, and
I think, I you just said friendship. And again people
will slam people that say, like, don't be best friends
with your kids, and they'll see this and be like, oh,
they both said they're friends with their kids. But it's
important to me, like, of course i'm their parent and
(12:53):
I'm there, but I'm not trying to be their best friend.
I'm just trying to have an open communication. I grew
up in a different generation. Obviously I'm a lot older
than you, but like, I love that much. Actually twelve
years but.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, I didn't know eleven years.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I'll be fifty two in May.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Good, good, and enjoy life.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm starting to for the first time because I feel
like for the first time, because no one's ever allowed
me to be myself, you know, and I fed into
that for so long and now going through a divorce
and going through Sorry, this is about you and I'm
making about me.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
No, I love it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
This is stuff I've like wanted to talk to you
about for so long, but we're too busy talking about Bengals,
which oh my god. But yeah, I'm starting to be like, wait,
I I want to enjoy myself. I've always been authentic,
but I felt so judged that I'd have to like
(14:00):
kind of curtail to this and people please, and it's like,
I just want to be happy. I want to dress
the way I want to dress.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What are you doing for yourself to be able to liberate?
Like where do you think? Because that's really where I'm
trying to figure out again, Like you said before, in theory,
it's great, but in practice, it's really really hard, like
what are you doing that allows you to find that independence,
the self worth, the comfort of being like I'm going
(14:28):
to live life.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
My way, just surviving. It's like, I don't know, I
think the divorce really helped me have a voice and
help me kind of go okay. I felt like for
(14:53):
so long I was trying to not cover my acts,
protect what the world perceived, because from the moment, I mean,
you know, since the moment you two got together, there
was like, you know, she's so much younger, like is
she a gold digger? Why is she like so much shit?
(15:16):
But the moment Dean and I got together, it was like,
oh yeah, because we met, we were both married. You know,
she's a homewrecker. And I give them six months And
as you say, it's the noise, you're just like trying
to quiet it. But it's really challenging. And I think
for so long, even when we had our reality show,
(15:38):
I would try really hard to protect that. And we
had two different reality shows. We had Tori and Dean,
and that was more light hearted family stuff and it
was all authentic what everyone saw. But you know, when
any fights or stuff would have we kind of did
that behind closed doors, and we didn't want to prove
(16:00):
people right that it's like something's wrong. And then my
husband publicly it was infidelity, and the woman sold a
story and it all came out and it's like, oh,
you know, the curtain came up. It's like the Great
Oz and it's like, oh my god. You know, everyone said,
like you found your prints. I wish I had a
(16:21):
Dean and I wanted to say like, yeah, there's great
things about him, but there's also really dark things, and
there's addiction issues, and there's emotional issues and anger. But
I couldn't. So when that blew up, I did true
tory and I was just like fuck it, and I
just put it all out there. But then as soon
(16:41):
as you do that, everyone's like too much. Why are
you putting that all out there?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right? But it's not. And that's the whole thing I
started to learn. When you know, what I would do
press or people would ask me questions like well people
say and it's like, well, who's saying it saying it?
Or is there a group of people that who knows
how many there are if they really believe it or not?
(17:08):
You know, in front of our house, people say, you know,
the paparassi. Sometimes they'll say the craziest thing and the
only reason they're saying this is to get us to react.
So it's not And that's the thing. It's like, if
somebody wants to come and have a real conversation and say, Tori,
this is what I think about you, you know the
first then go back to the audacity, right, But it
(17:32):
really isn't. It's we are we have been able to
hide a system, and not just for people in the
public eye. By the way, this now is rampant among
children who are online now, amongst people in workplaces, on
their homes, like every it is everywhere now. This is
a relatable subject now. And when you and I first
(17:54):
started experiencing this, it wasn't relatable, right because it was like, oh,
oh my god, to cry I cry about No, it's
actually everywhere now, and so I think it's time to
have these kind of these conversations, but taking more seriously
and saying, hey, where are my boundaries? And ultimately I'm
only one person and one nervous system. And for kids
who are experiencing all these opinions and the bullying online
(18:16):
and stuff like that, they're a very underdeveloped nervous system
still you know what I mean, whatever scientific way to
put it, but they're still growing and the brain is
still forming and everything, and you know, it's we need
to clean it up and teach everybody boundaries, starting with
ourselves and then just hoping that other people will also
(18:37):
follow suit. But it is, you know, I find that.
You know, I'm very proud of you for what you
just shared with me, of being able to go and
just be like, I'm just I'm so sick of it.
I'm just going to show you. And that's how I
felt about the reality show. It's how I felt about
this book, you know, take it or leave it. But
I when I met Alec, everybody had the opinions. I
(18:58):
was like, all underprepared for what this public life world was.
I came from the yoga worlds. Everybody's really nice. It's
all about breathing and I must say and shabasana, like
everything's like really nice and happy, right, and then all
of a sudden, I get you know, I started getting Alec.
I put into this world and I have no idea
what I'm doing. And by the way, Alec Baltwman is
(19:20):
not like a great teacher on tarts of like how
to be in the public eye, okay, because he has
these opinions and his you know, strong feelings about things.
So I'm learning it through him. And you know, whether
people talk about you and it's kind or it's not kind,
whether it's true or it's not true, it's people talking
about you for you. And I think when you did
(19:43):
this project that you did, and you know, I've done
some of these projects that I'm learning I'm beginning to do.
This is us taking back, you know, and say, hey,
you know what, I'm a whole person and this is
these are these are my words, this is my voice,
this is who I am, and I'm going to continue
to evolve. You know, the pain that maybe you showed
(20:04):
on that show and you know is a pain that
you were dealing with, and it was very true in
that moment. And then maybe in five years is this
and another five years is this, and that's valid.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's totally about great because we're always changing or you hope.
You know, that's when there's a problem when people don't evolve. Yes,
So yeah, so now people say like, oh, she's a
hot mess, she's a train wreck, and I'm like I mean,
if my kids love me, I'm a great mom.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I work my ass off exactly. It's like if you're
a train red both, I'll get on that train reck
with you because you know then not, by the way,
this is a woman. When a woman uses their voice,
they stand up for themselves. They live the life, the family, everything.
They're survivor. You're survivor, you've been through a lot. Then
you know, people come and it is I think ultimately,
(20:58):
what it does is it makes people uncomfortable sometimes with
ourselves as women, like well, what this is against the
rules we have, like these rules that we've been like, yes,
we've been grained and this person outside of the rules,
and we like, are we're belonging to people? We're black people,
we got it? Like ring it in? This is not
an okay thing to do, you know. I mean, like
(21:20):
how many times people, you know, I post something online
or something and they're like, did you did you ask
your husband permission for that?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I was like, excuse me, You're like, uh, it's it's
twenty twenty five and nineteen fifties didn't have Instagram, so
go back to that.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So okay, y, yeah, yeah, no, no, truly true it is.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
We're conditioned. We're so But you know what I feel like,
you know, obviously watching you from the outside, I feel
like you are overcoming that you're owning that it's like,
okay to break that mold. And that to me is
inspirational because it's it's such and I don't know if
(22:07):
anyone will ever get past it. Like you know, it's
still you're supposed to. You know, you're supposed to be married,
You're supposed to you know, be like have all these
like things, you're supposed to hit and you know you're
supposed to have the two kids three years apart or
two years apart. Right, That's how like women plan things out.
It's like, Okay, that's what worked for them, and that's great,
(22:31):
but it doesn't work the same for everyone. And we
have to let people be themselves. And that's what we're
teaching our children and.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
We're teaching each other. I mean, the title of my
book is Manuel Not Included, and the whole thing is
just like there's no man.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I love that title. By the way, thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It was like just this when I started.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Your book, and I'm loving it. And I got to say,
I haven't sat down with a book in so long
and I used to be a big reader. But I felt,
well for me at least at least knowing you a
little bit, like it was so relatable and I could
hear your voice coming out of it, and well, I
(23:12):
really max it comes out correct, ma.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Sex it comes out. But you know, I mean, what
I was going to say is that the other day,
off of what you were saying that, there was a
woman who stopped me at this copy shop that I
go to, and she said that she enjoyed watching her show.
And it's always so meaningful when people say that because
it feels so authentic and felt so cathartic at the time,
and she said she was excited about the book, and
(23:36):
she said, you know what I learned from watching your show.
I'm going to swear for a second because that was
her words, So if you guys have to cleep it up,
she said, you're one tough, strong bitch. And I just
felt like, because I don't know how you feel when
you go through her I don't feel like that all
the time. I you know, because I have so many kids,
and I don't want my kids that, even though I'm
honest with them, I don't want them to see me
(23:57):
cry or feel unsure, and of course they've seen that.
So I try to, like I'll close myself off and
like cry for like thirty seconds really hard, like try
to get it all out, and then I wipe the rips,
like Gartie, it's gonna come out and smile. But there's
how many times I was just like, I don't know
what to do. There is no manual for this. I
don't know, which is why it has this title. There's
there is no one right way, and there's nobody's telling
(24:19):
me because there's no experience that has really been had
exactly in the way that my life is unfolding and.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Never will be and never will be.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And when it is exactly, we're all different and we're
also similar, and it's just we're just a mixed we're
a mixed back. But when this woman, what I responded
to her was it was other strong, tough bitches that
got me through. And it could be people that I
knew that I had deep conversations with. It could be,
(24:47):
you know, people who I just met on the street.
It could be people who are not well known online,
you know, you know, inspirational people on It could be
famous people on the but it was women who were
living their life. Just like you're saying, I'm going to
come and be wrong. I'm going to show myself that
it gives me permission to try that, you know. So
(25:08):
I'm really standing on the shoulders of other women who
were brave enough to do what I am attempting, what
I'm practicing to do. And sometimes I get it right
and sometimes I get it wrong. And sometimes I try
and I mess it up, and I feel like I
would tray myself because I did it in the not
the way that I wanted to be And I just
told my friends and like cry about it and then
(25:28):
they picked me back up. But it's just a practice
because we've been so conditioned to do the opposite.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I completely agree. And now from what you are doing,
other women are able to stand on your shoulders. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean, we're all we're all in this together and
all of it all we are. We kind of live free,
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So It's interesting because it's women that we look towards
to have a community, to have, you know, a connection with,
but it's also women that simultaneously completely break us down. Yes,
which is something I hope we move past. Men while
(26:09):
we love them, it's you know, it's more of a
simple thing. You know, you never see you never see
men judging or going at other men, and it's like
they're living their lives and we just you know, it's
a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I don't know if you saw the episode, just to
bring a little like lightheartedness, because I thought it was
one of the funniest parts of my of the show
where Alec and I while I was pregnant with our
seventh whenever dear dear friends, who was on our first
day because I would only go out with Alec who
we went out in like a group situation, because I
was like, I don't know this person. So Scott Ellis,
who's amazing director on Broadway. He was on our first days,
(26:54):
our wedding. Him and his husband are just like love
them so much. He was directing play called Take Me
Out on Broadway, and I don't know if you heard
about Staking Me Out, but everybody is naked skate on
stage for like the majority of the play. Now, I
as much as I love Scott and we want to
like support him, I knew because I'm still friendly with
(27:15):
him and Alec is friendly with him. My ex boyfriend
was in the show that we went to watch that
I was trying not to go to because can you
imagine I'm pregnant with me my seventh sitting next to
my husband and my ex boyfriend is naked for like
what is an hour and a half or whatever a
Broadway show is, And so this just shows you what.
(27:38):
Alex knew that and he wanted you want, no, no, no,
I'm there like this looking at my lap the whole time.
It's really really awkward, and he wanted to go backstage
and say hello and shake his head like you were
so great. You know, he's like a younger actor. You know,
(27:58):
I've not done this same things that Alec has done,
and he's so so kind, and you know, just Alec
is just literally the best with other actors. And I
am just like like just don't know what to say
because it is the awkward position that like is the
most unrelatable experience, like no one else has had this experience.
And Alec on the show is like the most complimentary
(28:23):
of my ex boyfriend and his like physique, and I'm
just like, that's a man supporting a man. He's like, yeah,
he looks really good naked. And he said it in
other words that are a little bit more graphic that
I will let you go and take a look because
it's online. But can you imagine?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Wait, which how did I miss this? Which episode? Is
it in seven or eight?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I know, I feel like it's like, I don't know,
maybe six as something like that. I have to look,
I have to look back. But yeah, no, it is
one of the moments. And the best part about it
as well is no one asked Alec about this, and
he just like, like the you know, we were on
the couch and we're talking about different things and different
(29:04):
and he's.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like, during your sitdown interview, the producer didn't.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Ask no And that was like the funniest thing and
super complimentary and super kind about my ex boyfriend, about
us to see my ex boyfriend nick, you know, I
think that would make me very uncomfortable. I don't know
if i'd be like, you know, as positive as him.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
But that does some of his personality like he I mean, gosh,
the lives you guys have. You have to have a
sense of humor. Oh my god, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Absolutely crazy. I mean, if you don't laugh, you.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Was he like a boyfriend? Oh gosh, I guess you
can't answer this like a well endowed boyfriend, and.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
He was, No, he was. I think Alex called it
like a baseball batmanclarinet. But it's we can.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I love that, I know, like I.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Mean, it's like he has such comfort with himself that
he can go and say this when nobody asked him,
I'm not like tell the story, producers, not like tell
the story. He said, I'm just going to tell the
story and that's out.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's what's it up. I love that. That is so beautiful.
Do you, I mean, what was the reason you initially
wanted to do with the Baldwins. Did you feel sorry
not to put words in your mouth but no, no, no.
Did you feel because I know I haven't the past.
Did you feel like, I mean when it's great you
get to work with your family and that's I loved
(30:40):
that part of it. Did you feel like you wanted
people to find you guys relatable?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I mean, I think one of the most important things
to understand about me that I hope I can be
in the in the in both the book and the show,
is that I am a very impulsive person, always think
things through, not necessarily and I mean sometimes it doesn't
go well, but it's not in the typically reckless ways.
(31:07):
But you could consider doing a reality show starting to
film two weeks before my husband went on child that's
a little reckless, right, And of course it was something
that Alec and I chose to do together. But in
that time, you know, there was he was just in
such a hard place that I really had to stand
(31:28):
up and try to be the protector of the whole family.
And you know, I think a lot of times, if
I thought it through better, I probably would have been like,
all right, it's best to like just go into like
our little cave and like hide out here and try
to figure this out. But I think because of all
the people speaking for you about you again true not true, kind,
(31:50):
not kind, it was like, I want to speak, and
during a time when we're told not to speak, yeah,
and you know, we'd have people outside, you know, and
or in different things they would like, what would you say?
What do you say? And then you say something? How
dare you say something?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And again damned if you do, damned if you don't.
And the one rule is that you lose. And so
it felt as much as I think I didn't think
it through. I didn't really you know, think that you know,
far and ahead, I have ADHD and I think something
that's very typical of people, like as there's like the
timeframe people talk about there's now and there's not now.
(32:27):
So I'm like, We're just going to do it now.
I'm not going to think of it was that thing too,
just like now. And when that two week mark came
and everybody wrapped and we didn't film, you know, uh,
going to trial, it was just us, you know, kind
of we're going to break for three weeks, and I
look at the croon, I'm like, I'm not gonna we
all very close and I'm not going to see you
guys again. They're like, nobody knows what's going to happen.
(32:50):
Nobody knows. And then of course it went down the
way that it went down, and you know, we came
back in a week and our our producer flew back
from Sarah Ready, who's like going to be one of
my lifelong best friends, just from how amazing she wasn't
supportive through that really hard experience. She flew back and
(33:11):
beat us to our home and with her iPhone she filmed.
I think it's the beginning of episode three where we're
reuniting with the.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Kids, which is so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh oh my god, meet too. Even when I think
about it, and that's like, I barely remember that night
because I was so confused about like what is happening,
what is going on? And just to see, you know,
as much as when we parents are children through difficult
things to see, as much as we tried to protect
(33:42):
them and what you're saying, you know, I tried to
I am honest with them. So they had to know
they had to say goodbye to their dad, like they
may not see them for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And what'd you say? You said, Carmen said, should I
say a meaningful goodbye to dad?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Something like should I say to that like in a
special way, like I'm not getting something like I'm not
going to see them for a long time? And and
I said, yeah, I mean it like that's when when
children have seen darkness, and this is in all different
walks of life. If you tell them it's okay and
they're seeing it's not okay, then you are having them
(34:21):
question their sense of okay and and giving them false understanding.
Now we are strong, we will make it through. We
are here together, we are united. Yes, don't be so
darkened down because you need to summon the strength within
yourself to be able to give them part and encourage.
But you have to be real with them, you know.
(34:44):
And before you were saying something about you know, they say, oh, well,
I you know, don't be your kid's best friend. I think,
be your kid's best friend. But what kind of I
think everybody who worries about that, what kind of best
friend are you? Because I want to be the best friend.
I mean, like with my friends, I'm very honest with them.
I'm honest about client kinds. I'm not going to be
somebody who's like, you know, being like, yeah, let's go
(35:06):
do something extremely ridiculous and negatively reckless. You know, I'm
going to try to be there and be a good
influence and I want them to be happy. And so
I try to be my kid's best friends because you know,
I want them to know that a best friend is
going to support them and is going to help them
leave their best life. Do they have to eat their vegetables, yes,
(35:27):
do their homework, go to bed, be nice, all of
these things. Yes, I am mon, we have rules, but
I'm also a best friend, and best friends have rules too.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
This is true, and it's about redefining words I have
found in life that people have put a definition on
and it's like it's okay to say this ord or
have this meaning of something else, and how it works
for me and my family. And so to me, a
best friend is best advocate, like I am their best advocate.
(35:58):
And honesty, I just I got to tell you. I
watched the show and that's the part that just broke me,
but like in a beautiful way, because it gave me
permission to know what I was doing was okay. Was
when Carmen does ask you that question and you say
about should I say, I mean ful goodbye, special goodbye,
(36:19):
and you said you should, and I was like, she.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Should, and she actually came with us, you know. In
the end, I didn't know, you know. And I think
one of the complicated things. I don't know how you
feel about having many kids is traveling. It's very complicated.
And I actually never got into an airplane with all
of them until recently went to go visit my family.
(36:45):
My all family lives o art seeing and we but
at the time of the trial, I hadn't traveled with
all of them, and so I didn't know do I
keep everybody together? And I'm such the I'm going to
keep taking care of you know I talk about in
the book, He's got health scares. You always died, you know.
During this whole thing, there's been so many hard things,
(37:08):
and I just want to make sure you know I'm
hovering around all of them, trying to keep everybody safe
and together. And the idea that I would go and
travel so far from home and be away from my
children and I've never been away from before to go
into this very scary and unknown situation, yeah, I didn't
(37:29):
know how to do that. And so in the end,
and I knew that every decision I made was going
to be wrong and right at the same time. There
was going to be pros and cons. And so I
decided to take my two that weren't in camp because
the wounds in camp had a routine and I was
only going to be gone for a couple of days.
I was going to I was going to just go
and be with him, and he didn't want me to come.
(37:50):
He said, I you need to take care of our kids.
I need you to take care of the kids and
I'm going to go and face this alone, which like,
oh my god, bless it. And he's just so he is.
He is so tough, you know, and so not tough,
like you know that mix of the two. Anyway, So
I brought Carmen and I brought the baby and where
my best friends came and he's on the show. We
laid the rug together and he took care of them
(38:12):
during the day, and the baby I was, you know,
still nursing her, and I was, you know, she was
in bed with me, and or maybe I just top nursing,
but she was still sleeping in bed with me, and
she was teething, so all night long I'd have her
on top of me and giving her emotion for the pain,
and she's crying and jet lagged and all this sort
of stuff. And then you know, during the day we
(38:33):
go and every single morning Carmen would ask me, is
today the day I have to say goodbye to Taddy?
And you know, it's just the world can be a
hard place. World can be a hard place.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It can you say that you're impulsive, but I feel
like watching you you and I don't know how you
do it. I think because I know. I know you.
(39:12):
I know you as my text friend, but I know
a lot of people that know you, and not one
person has anything I'm kind to say about you. You're lovely,
your energy is great and people feel that. You know,
I feel that across a zoom and you can't mimic that,
and you're so kind. But I'm when I watch you,
(39:35):
I'm like, wow, I don't know how because you say
you're impulsive, but like I feel like everything you say,
I'm like hanging on every word. But I'm like, you're
so mindful of how you speak. Were you always that way?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I think I've always been, you know, I'm a Capricorn,
I'm a I'm a deep thinker. I remember when I
was very little and I would go to bed at
night and I would laying down and I would say,
how did I treat people today? And how can I
treat people better tomorrow? I don't know where that came from.
I sometimes think that we're old souls and I don't
(40:14):
even know. And it only started to hit me as
an adult, and that, you know, watching my children growth,
Like I come up with that from. But I do
think that it came I've always just been somebod who's
very connected to energy, and I want people around me
to feel good. I want people to be happy. I,
(40:36):
you know, very much was surrounded by people who really cared,
and I'm very blessed for that. I think that the
difficult parts of that is people who are wired like
me tend to give ourselves a way a lot. So
again I'm now I'm trying to learn and say, hey,
you know what, I'm going to give to everybody, But
(40:58):
I'm feeling really empty right now, and so I'm trying
to learn to connect with the people also who can
I can give to and then they're going to also
give with me, you know. And it can just be
this energy that we're giving, you know. I mean, good
energy from people is so energizing, it's so just it
(41:20):
just fills you up and it gives you hope. And
I think the impulsivity, it's not again I think the
word impulsive sometimes can can feel like such a negative thing.
But you know, as being the mother of so many,
like you can try to make a plan and the
plan's going to go bad, like it's just going to
go bad. Yeah, And I think it's just it's like
impulsivity it's flexibility and it's like okay, sure I'll try this, Okay,
(41:42):
I'll do this, you know. And and that's my mother
and I bought our belly button hears when when I
think she's when she was like fifty or something like that,
like I was like, sure, let's do it. And the
person who ap peers at least my value, but I
don't remember was like trying like learning, let's do this.
It's like that kind of thing. Let's try this now
(42:03):
that was gonna always work out well to find in
this party in this instance. But I think just like
being there and wanting to experience life, I think that
there's just a spontaneity and willing to try it and
willing to play and be curious. I think that's that's
something that's definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Vary me and you never want to let that go
like that. It's that light I call it, that is
inside of you that keeps you going, keeps your family going.
But to that note, like I know, I go through
this a lot. You're taking care of everyone, You're that
safe place for everyone in your family. Who does fulfill
(42:43):
that for you? How do you get that?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Oh, it's that like mom time how do we get
how do we get that? I don't know if I've
come up with the right thing yet. I definitely exercise
for me is extremely important part because of just sort
of my hyper nature. And I've been like that growing up.
I was, you know, many times the kid that was
(43:08):
like running around the classroom and I would, So I
run every day. And I have really really good friends.
I have really really good friends, and I'm so connected
with my family. My big brother is you're in a
huffold within me and I he just gives me so much.
(43:30):
And I think it's through connecting with other people and
just being like a little bit messy, just be like,
oh my god. And you know, I have one friend
who he and I will talk about absolutely nothing, like
we'rely taxi drivers. Maybe taxi drivers are actually talking about things.
I don't know, but like it's been in the taxi
and they're just like all day long, they're just on
(43:51):
like the phone. There's like a joke about it, like
that they're just talking and talking all day long. And
he and I are like this, I've just the word
like talking and we're just you know, it's it's like
a and it can be our conversation will from very
typical age from here. He also has to hear to hear,
to hear, to hear, to hear to hear, and it
makes sense to us. But like sometimes they will listen
and and you like, He's like, I can't handle the
(44:13):
two if you got annually. So I think it's just
having saved people, and you know, moving my body I
think is really important. A therapy. Love the therapy, Love therapy.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I just went back into therapy.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
That's the best. I don't know, how do you other
than other than therapy? What are you like?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't know the answer. I guess I was trying
to ask you for tips. I don't know because I
but I I'm the type. I've been like this my
whole life. I repress everything so and I'm a good
listener and I want to take care of people. I
want to save people. I'm trying to work on that.
(44:52):
And I'm a nurturer. So it's like I give, give, give, give,
and then I'm like, but wait, wait, wait, I'm just
pushing all my feelings down and it's it's near impossible
to do when you have a big family because there
are so many and while there's two parents, there's only
one of you, and it's the mom. You know that
(45:15):
you're just like, oh, a mom feeling and so and
the mom guilds like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
It's a real thanks one. We're never going to be enough.
But I think that part of a great lesson for
our kids is that they will hopefully learn that their
moms are humans too. Here people, And I say that
to them sometimes when it's just so much. You know,
I don't know if you've had the experience, but I
(45:44):
can have all seven of them shouting different things at
me at the same time. One's mad, one's excited. Was
just like it's all the different emotions, and it's it's
almost like a joke. You have seven children around this
one person, and I'm just like thinking, and I've said
to them a few times and be like, you can
break me. I can be broken a person, and I
(46:08):
can't be breakable. So like, I want to hear everything
that you guys are saying, but like I can't register
any of this. And sometimes they've learned a little bit.
They're like, I think mom looks a little overwhelmed right now.
And so just being able to focus and take time
and you know, I mean, and there's no you know.
The reason why you and I don't have the answer
(46:29):
for this is we need different things every day. We're
gonna wake up some days and we have lots of energy,
and we're gonna wake up some days and it's just like,
you know, I didn't sleep all last night, or I
just feeling down, or somebody said something to me and
that makes me so sad, and it got to me
and it shouldn't get to me. Now I'm mad at
myself that it got to me, you know. I mean,
it's just we are such fluid beings and I think that,
(46:52):
you know, ultimately, the more that we can tap into
what we're feeling and connect with ourselves. And I have
a first book that I that I wrote called The
Living Clearly Method that was much more to do with this,
and it was about connecting within yourself. I had a
very bad eating disorder for like twenty years, and I
(47:13):
have a great relationship with food now, which I would
have never imagined possible. But it really plagued me for
a long time. And I could have a completely rational
conversation with you about how Anirex and Blivia was bad.
I talk like this, and the same time, I think
that's really buy it's awful, this and this and this
and this, and then I would go home and I'd
repeat the pattern.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
And why I understand.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Be able to get into that point, and I would
basically get into a point where I would associate and
spiral and collapse, you know, I just would not I
would go into a place where my my uncomfortable, my
discomfort with my nervous system would take over and do
behavior that was self harming. And I learned that I
(47:59):
had to practice when I was in my good space,
these techniques of connecting with my body, my breath, my grounding,
my core, you know, and be very aware and clear
and everything should look much more clear, because when we associate,
everything kind of goes very inward and we lose touch
with our physical surroundings. And the more I practiced that,
(48:21):
the more when I started to get into my moments
where things weren't going well, where I was starting to
do this behavior that it wanted to not be doing anymore,
I could wake up from it. I can hold on
a little bit more. Little by little, I could hold
on a little bit more to me treating my body well.
And then I was able slowly and slowly but surely
(48:44):
to be able to, you know, fix my problem that
I had. But it wasn't rationalizing it. It wasn't taking baths,
chewing your food a certain amount of time. It wasn't lavender,
it wasn't any of these things. It was literally just
connecting with my body and staying connected all the time.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Now, having been through that and come out the other side,
do you feel in a different way? Obviously it's something
vastly different that you carry that over, the disassociation with
your life because of the public image and the critiques.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Sometimes I've gone through some you know, some moments where
I was just like, I was like, oh shit, I
thought I learned this lesson already, because you can feel it,
you know, when you're disconnected from yourself, and then you
have to forgive yourself, which is one of the hardest
things of just being.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Like I am a because it's trauma in a different.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Way, it's trauma trauma. It's also unnecessary and silly. But
you know, I mean, but but I I had to
try to use those techniques I try to learn from
you know, we all we all learned, we learned from
our our you know our difficult moments. You know, they
(50:00):
say think or swim, and if you swim, as a
as a fitness instructor, if you swim, you get stronger.
If I'm swimming, my muscles are going to get stronger.
And so oh well, you know, but you're a walker.
You know you're here. You walk. Either you walk or
you sit down. You you're a walker. But whatever it is,
when you continue to move through it, you're fighting through it,
You're going to get stronger, and that strength hopefully will
(50:24):
then when you get your next difficult moment, translate into
being able to deal with a little bit a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Do you feel like you guys are constantly in fight
or flight in some form?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I think that we have been for a very long time,
and I think that we are. It's something I the
question you as something that I think about every single
day for myself, and I try, because of my experience,
to calm and nervous system and notice when it gets
repped up again. I think my husband very much is
(51:07):
in fight or flight all the time, and I'm very
much as his partner. I'm trying to help him with that.
And I don't blame him because it's just it's just hard,
you know, but I always have hope that that he
(51:30):
can find some kind of connection and peace because he
has so much to live for. You know, we've got
We're so lucky in so many ways. You know, we
talk a lot, but the hardships, there's so much joy
that we have, and you know, leaning into joy in
our children and then just say the silliest things all
the time, like our little babies. She's all into one minute.
Everything is like she's like, negotiating with you doesn't even
(51:51):
make sense. She's like a want more. She can't say see,
so she says to like calmness Tarman. So she says
a lot more tape for for Kate. And I'm like, no,
you just had And she's like, no, just one minute,
just one minute, like want more, cat one minute? And
like something's so simple like that that every parent probably
can relate to the kids just says something. You think
it's the funniest in the world because you're watching them develop.
(52:14):
That's the small things that I think we need to
lean into. Then we'll teach us to, you know, to
see the things that really matter in life.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
It is it's the it's the simple things, the small things,
the simple joys. And I think it's easy to let that,
no matter what circumstance you're in, kind of get out
of control because you feel like you're always and even
not meaning to compare yourself to what others have or
(52:47):
do or act, and it's just it's a constant thing.
Do you do you think you guys will have more children?
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Oh, Alex really wants more kids? Like really really?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
And I have you frozen your eggs? I wish I
had frozen my eggs.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Dead my eggs. We well, we did. We have one
surrogate baby, right, So I tried iv A one time.
It went not in the way that I wanted to,
where everything seemed like it was going to be fine,
and then I lasted maybe like four or five months,
which was not was not a fun experience obviously, and
one that is all too common. And so I I
(53:25):
got pregnant naturally like I did with you know, my
other ones. And I don't know if the right terminology,
if I'm saying the right terminology, I don't want to
offend anyone because I know it is such an emotional subject,
So forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology. And
then I my I was like, I can't put another,
(53:46):
this other embryo inside because I feel like my body
rejected that process. I don't know why. In the look,
I mean, that's probably a completely irrational thing. There was
no explanation to what had happened, but I was so
sure at the time. I was like, I can't. So
I did serge at the same time that I was pregnant.
(54:06):
And so that was my experience with the whole the
free the freezing of it. So and I love it.
We have you know, that's Edwin rylu. We called them
the did this. They're like five, They called themselves. They
called each other, did they when they were a little?
And they account like then they're not Wins. It's just
like a little but they it's such a beautiful thing
because they're so connected. But I don't know if I
(54:27):
if I have more kids, I feel like, hold were
you when you were your.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Last forty four?
Speaker 2 (54:36):
So let's see. It just turned and they.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Say that it's a five percent chance of conceiving naturally
at that point. But I can't imagine my life without him.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Well I wasn't. I'm never goo in math anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Like you, so if it's meant to be.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
If it's meant to be, yeah, well we'll we'll see
Alec very much. I think he's it's always been a
beautiful thing when we've had another kid, and I think
that that's something that he leans into when he's thinking
about how to create more joy in his life, is
that they bring us such joy and there's just so magical.
But we'll see. I'm tired, right.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Well, I guess it depends do you like even numbers
or odd numbers? Because you have an odd number right now.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
We have an odd number.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
But that always did it for me. I was like five,
Oh my god, exactly right. And if I had one
more girl, i'd have a Brady bunch. If I had six, well, I.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Also have Ireland's my stepdaughter, so i'm a little I'm
eleven years older than her. So it's also like a
super fun relationship. And I'm kind of a grandma too
because Ireland has a eight me now, so it's you know,
it's a it's a pretty wild bunch we all have.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
It's so fun, it's so beautiful. I love you, and
I know I don't even know you really would like
I'm telling you, it's like I've always felt so connected
to you, and I I'm sorry honestly for what people
say and what they're going to continue to say, because
it's not going to get easier in that respect. It
(56:10):
just is the life you live. And you didn't sign
up for this part. Alut didn't sign up for this part,
and it's a really unfortunate thing. And thank you, and
I feel and it's so beautiful how you're getting through it.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
No, thank you the same and the same for you.
I know it's very painful. But one of the most
important things I always have to remember is there are
more good people saying positive things then people say that
there are. It's really really true. Just it's the under
Alec taught me this. He's you know when Carmen and
somebody said something to Carmen one time or another kid, and
(56:43):
he said, this is natural that you try to make
sense that of something that doesn't make sense, and you spiral,
and you spiral and you spial, and this is why
negativity gets so much attention. You're trying to figure out,
especially if you're an empathetic person like you are. You know,
you you want to be like, why can we just
be friends like this? Could just be good. Yeah, and
so I think, no matter how much when we acknowledge
(57:06):
the negativity, it's so important to then say, Okay, I
know this is hard and it sucks, but look at
all these great things over there, and then you hyper
focused benefit of ata, hyper focused towards the positivity, and
then you're just like you know what, you go over there,
go over there.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
And I feel like people like us with good energy,
positive people, positive positivity seekers and doers, I feel like
we do win in the end. Look, I hesitated. I
wanted to come through strong with that one for you,
But you know I have moments where I'm like, did
the good guys ever win? Like? You know, we're good people,
(57:48):
you know, in a heightened situation that because people don't
find it relatable that they feel that they can do that.
So but we're good people will come through it. Are
you going to get any more Bengals from Bengals Embrace?
You know?
Speaker 2 (58:02):
I have four?
Speaker 1 (58:04):
I know She's like, I know I relate to Alec
because I'm deeply allergic to cats and we got two
because of you for them.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
No, they are the best. I would love the bad cat,
all the cats, all the dogs, all the kids, all
the horses. I just want all of them all the time.
But I feel like i'm always because I got two dogs.
I didn't tell Alex. Actually didn't tell him about any
of the cats either.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
They're just a right like I used to do that
with Dean. He'd like, but you didn't ask me about this,
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
Like, it's cute, and he loves them, even the cats,
even I could tell yes, No, it's it's a very
it's I know he's gonna be mad at me for
like maybe thirty months, illid thirty minutes. He's very angry,
and then he's like and then he's fine. I mean,
his excelly. Kim had like so many animals. She's so wonderful.
(58:59):
She's always, you know, rescuing dogs and she's done such
incredible things. And I'm like, well she has eleven and
I'm like, I don't have eleven yet, so yet, yes,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Well, I hope to hug you in person one day.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Thank you for having me on. You're very kind and
very inspiring and I'm so grateful to to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Back at you. Well, next time I'm in New York,
I'm gonna I'm gonna come see you and pick up
another bangle, probably another.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
We'll go see James together.
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Perfect. Oh you would love that. Okay, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Thank you so much. This was really fun. Thank you you,
and
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Tell Aleci I will by
Host
Shannen Doherty
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