October 24, 2022 • 47 mins
Have you ever fallen in love, only to discover you’re out $30,000 and a three-year relationship? Tracy and Cara welcome Dr. Zakia Robbins-McNeal to the virtual red table, where she tells-all about the romance scam she endured for the very first time. Plus, Sam Cooper, private investigator and founder of Rogue Daters, joins the table to help us understand how scams like this can happen and–most importantly–how to avoid them.
Learn more about Rogue Daters: roguedaters.co.uk
Hosts Information:
Cara Pressley
@thecareercheerleader Cara’s Instagram
@TheCareerCheerleader Cara’s Facebook
@the1cheering4U Cara’s Twitter
@FeelinSuccessful Cara’s TikTok
Tracy T. Rowe
@tracytrowe Tracy’s Instagram
@troweandco Tracy’s Facebook
@tracytrowe Tracy’s Twitter
@tracytrowe Tracy’s TikTok
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Are you ready for another fantastic episode? Or what I
am you right now? I'm ready? You know how we
say it, Let's connect, let's grow, let's go, let's red table.
That's red table. That Hey y'all, Hey, what's up? And
welcome to Let's Red Table back. I'm Tracy T. Brow
and I'm Cora Presley, and we are talking about scams
(00:23):
again today, but this time. This time we have a
guest coming on who lost thirty dollars sure, supposed boyfriend okay,
and to help get some context around what happened and
to inform all of us how to not fall prey
to scams such as this. We also have a private
investigative joining us who specializes in making sure the people
(00:47):
you meet online are who they say they are. Let's
get started, man, Listen, listen, Tracy, have you been skimming before?
I guess that says it all. Well, you know, the
scams are in a spectrum too, right, There's a divide
between scam versus identity their first fraud, online fraud or
(01:11):
just or just a fool. Because I've been a food
several times. I was a fool and being scamming, scammed
off at the same time, it was just the same. Yeah,
and it wasn't even it was like, it wasn't even financial,
So let me talk about that. I just realized I
was a pun in a situation with the X. I
was the girlfriend. I had believed at the time I
(01:34):
was a girlfriend, And evidently they had several other girlfriends
and they had to go to court, and they had
told their other girlfriends that I was paying for the lawyer.
Oh my gosh, it was actually a quarter point of lawyers.
And I was like, what's happening here? So just being
a part or in the mix of that. Wait, wait, wait,
(01:57):
the other girlfriends thought you were paying They gave money
to pay you to pay the No, no, no, never
an exchange of funds, nothing like that. It was just
when things started to unravel as this person was incarcerated,
it was, yeah, we know you're paying for the quarter
pointed lawyer. I'm actually the girlfriend. You actually not the girlfriend.
(02:18):
I'm actually the girlfriend. And he definitely has a quarter
pointed lawyer that is absolutely free. So I don't know
what part of court acquainted. People believe what they want
to believe, and we were all fools for this one individual.
So that was scam moment you. I just want you
to know you're not alone and getting scamming scammed. The
(02:43):
appreciate a lot of stuff going on Red Table Talk.
They had the inventing Anna right, had the tender Swindler.
Now we have a lovely daughter and father. It's been
scammed in this episode. It's a lot. People are going
through a lot nowadays. I just I think because we
all are on the side of giving people the benefit
(03:05):
of the doubt. We talked about that benefit what people
are saying, because why would you lie? But we know
what they would lie now we know because they are liars.
That's the part right there. Thank you, Tracy. That's exactly
what they are. No, it's the truth as plain as
(03:27):
you can say. Yes. And I can't tell you how
many times you have this. I bet my mom regularly
calls me and says, Tracy, I need to go. I
got this email and I need to fill this out
and I need to pay. And I'm like, Mom, you don't, Oh,
these people, you don't know, these people, you have no
(03:47):
account with these people. Cut it out? Are sure? She
wants to be sure. That's one of the other groups
of people that are so taken advantage of the scamps
on a regular basis, senior citizens. My mom is the same.
She wants to do right. She if she has a bill,
we're gonna go and knock it out. We don't want
anything on our credit or think that goes back to
trauma of just life and trying to raise that credit
score depending on where you are in life. You don't
(04:07):
want it to fall for anything. So of course they
want to handle it asap and people know that. So
we've had an opportunity to top. But you know, we
absolutely love being able to hear from our community. Car right,
So we asked our community, how do you keep yourself
safe from scams? And here are some of your answers.
Tristan Scott, who is from my Red Table Talk RBA community.
(04:28):
She says, don't log in or click on the thing. Listen, trysted,
We are with you. Tryst And Scott's like, just don't
touch anything, okay, don't do it. Don't in, don't touch anything,
don't click anything. Just keep yourself and sanitize your hands,
right right, I understand, And you're bond, Romy said, don't
(04:52):
click on any link. This is the thing. You're bond.
We agree, it's hard if you click on links, that's
now unsubscribe, getting put into a whole, another land, a
whole in other world. Diane Feeling Cook said, I refused
to give in to pressure. When people call me asking
for money, I'm want you. Diane's good, it's a note
(05:15):
for me. That's good because that's one of the tactics,
right to use pressure. That was the whole I R
scam was like, you have to pay and you need
to use a card. That's like you go to the
place they did that. There's a scam here locally where
they were using our utility company, and really, okay, you
had to pay or your utilities gonna be cut off.
And to pay with a card, like you have to
(05:36):
go to a certain store and get a certain cards
five And it's exactly like what that is so pitiful, right,
And someone like me just say, y'all just have to
cut it off. I want to see it. That's where
I met with go ahead and do it, Go ahead
and do it. Our community, Come on, our community is amazing.
They're not clicking on links or anything. You guys are
(05:59):
keeping yourselves safe, and we appreciate that. Before we take
a quick break, we want to remind you that you
can leave us a review on our Heart Radio and
Apple podcast, which helps us know you're listening and gives
us more visibility so other listeners can find us. Now,
time for a break before we welcome our guests. We're
(06:24):
bringing to fellow RTT community members to the Virtual Red Table.
Samantha Cooper is a private investigator in London and the
founder of Rogue Daters. I Love That, a company that
specializes in investigating people on dating sites for clients who
want to make sure they're meeting potential love interests, not catfishers.
(06:45):
She started this company after her divorce led her to
try outdating sites and she did not like what she
was saying. Whoa, We are so ready, I mean really
ready to hear your stories and all the red flag
acts you've seen that we should be looking out for.
Thanks for joining us, un let's you're at table that Samantha,
(07:06):
Thank you for having me. Yes, now we're calling you, Samantha.
We're calling you Sam. All that mind you can go
with sign because Sam Sam the investigator just sounds good.
I love that. I love it. And we have doctor
Zakia Robins McNeil. She's joining us from Minnesota, to share
her story of being scammed out of thirty thou dollars
(07:27):
by her boyfriend at the time. Hey, dr Z, I
know you see I can call you that right listen.
She thought she was building a relationship with the man
she loved, but after three years, she discovered she wasn't
the only woman he was dating or using for money.
Doctor Z has not shared the story publicly or with
any people in her life, so we are grateful that
she is with us today to hopefully help others avoid
(07:49):
this type of situation. Thank you again for joining us,
doctor Z. Thank you for having me. Doctor is a kid.
We want to beat that man up. Listen. We do
like stopped going it already. This is part of the
(08:12):
show where we reveal which moments made us pause, rewind,
and listen again. I love this. It's the wait what
wait what when Nikki and her dad Melvin, revealed they
had lost wait for this, two hundred eighty thousand dollars
each to a cryptocurrency scam. I met this person in
(08:36):
early November and we lost everything by the end of December. Well,
how much had you invested? By that? We invest in
all the house money that we had two thousand. Yeah,
it was everything we had. Okay, that was Wait what
it was heart stopping clutching the pearls? Wait what for me?
That's a life savings? Yeah? How did you ladies feel
(08:58):
about that when you saw it? In the episode that
was that was Wait one minute? Right? Will you see
me leaning back? Right? Lean with it? They could be triggering, right,
Watching that episode was very triggering, triggering. Unfortunately, I've seen
(09:22):
other cases that are similar to this and it still
shocks me to my core today. So two dollars is
just somebody's future. It's terrible, right, that's key somebody's future.
But it also affects their confidence of their own judgment
because they can't believe that somebody would do that to them,
(09:46):
and they start to question every decision that they've made
that's led up to the parting with the money? Right?
What about Also when Jada shared that she almost got
scammed because her friend's email got hecked. It people's emails
would get hacked, So you're thinking you're getting it from
someone that you know. I just got one of those
(10:07):
prominent friend of mine. They said they couldn't get to money.
Could I go and get this money? I called her assistant,
and of course they were like her email had been hacked,
so at least there was an assistant involved. But have
you guys ever received a weird email from a friend
or those messages on social media? I've seen him on
(10:27):
Instagram right right, Facebook, Instagram right like wait, wait a minute,
it don't even say I'm like you exactly, and I
love like hello dear or my queen. I think my
queen okay? And who called queen exactly exactly. I got
(10:49):
added on Twitter by Liam Neathan, the actor, who had
nine people that he was following, and I was one
of them. And then we had the old that's its
need to message me to ask if I liked his movies,
and I thought, gosh, he obviously doesn't know, so I
did reply and saying I'm a romance fraud investigator. I
(11:11):
didn't hear anything back, but I did block him and
report him and the profile has been taken down. But
it's just a sheer audacity of it. But it's the
idea then for you to believe, like all the billions
of people in the world, Liam Neeson picked me, I'm
a hopeless romantic too, and give me like that, you know,
(11:31):
the Chad though they're going to jack exactly. But if
they follow hundreds of people and then thousands of people,
I know they won't have a blue tick because they
won't get verified. But other people could miss that and
think they're actually really popular, and yeah, maybe this is
some kind of side account that's been made. So yeah,
(11:53):
they need to be stopped very early on. I think
I'm going to start telling people I'm a fraud investigators
just to get them off my back. You want leave
me alone. My name is Sam, and I investigate fraud
trying to scam me? Hilarious, That's exactly what's gonna happen.
(12:18):
One of the other weight what moments that we had
was when Evil the Last Quest, The CEO of Identity
Theft Resource Center shared the while in twenty twenty people
lost up for about a hundred and twenty million dollars
to crypto scams, in one losses skyrocketed to seven hundred
fifty million dollars. Now when we look at cryptocurrency as
(12:43):
a fraud payment tool, in the losses were about a
hundred and twenty four million that were reported to the
Federal Trade Commission. Hold on, if that blows your mind.
Seven hundred and fifty million. That's so crazy, But it
also makes sense to me because as you think about
part of the pandemic, people were at home. They were
(13:04):
looking for I hate to say this, but looking for
love and all the wrong places, you know that song
and its lonely and maybe wanting to believe something that
wasn't true because they were socially deprived. What do y'all think? Yeah,
looking for quick money? How can I my money? How
can I my money? I see other people doing good,
(13:25):
they're flipping their money, and we just have more time
to scroll. So I think that the scrolling time increased. Therefore,
the which is scrolling past increase, the whole time increased.
The scam time increased, that definitely. And I also think
that people at an older age are using smartphones that
maybe they hadn't used before. And I don't think they
(13:47):
realize that when you're online, you're letting people into your home,
into your safe space. You wouldn't naturally let through your
front door. Right, that's so true. That's such a old
number though, from a hundred million to seven hundred fifty
million in one year, that's a way to figure that.
(14:07):
Heckel Jackal and hide. I think you need to remember
those are reported figures. It will be way higher that
part that yes, Sam reported right right the other way, what,
of course, is not just the money but their actual face.
Even Christian King's whole story of having his photos stolen
(14:31):
and used on countless social media accounts and dating sites
and then him being contacted by the victims, bless their hearts,
who were madly in love. Right. I just started getting
messages on my social media. People will reach out to
me and be like, hey, did you know that your
images are being used? And I started getting hundreds of
messages a day. I've had women reach out to me
and tell me that they sent tens of thousands of
(14:53):
dollars with promises that I'm going to come home to them,
meet their family, and we're gonna started life together. Can
you imagine this happening to you? I personally can't because
it's like, what what do you do with that? What
did I say to you? That was my first question.
What was I saying? Because it's oh, that is hilarious,
(15:14):
car What What did the pseudoman say? What did I say?
That's very very good question. But could you imagine you're
walking down the Street, and you've got these people coming
up to saying, why didn't you call me back, Why
didn't you message me? You owe me money or to
your partner or something. You've seen him with another girl
(15:36):
like you spout like, lady, I don't know you, what's happening? Yes, ridiculous, ridiculous.
I felt for Tristan King because that's just horrifying. But
that's one of the challenges of being good looking. Bless
their hearts. People used you use your picture and images
and likenesses for catfishing, right. I'm sure it's flattering, but
(16:00):
it must be very, very annoying. So on a serious note,
have you ever googled pictures of yourself to see that
these are little pictures that you've put up? Yes, I have,
because I found when I was scammed Forever Go, when
my identity was stolen Forever and Go in the nineties,
I looked up Tracy Road to see just how many
(16:21):
there were, if there were any others, because I thought
I was one of one, And turns out I was
one of five hundred and forty one, and so there
were a lots. There are lots and lots of pictures
of Tracy Row. So I made sure that my middle
initial was included to differentiate me, just ever so slightly
so that it makes a little bit of a difference.
I never thought about that. How about there was another
as a kid, Robbins in Philadelphia, and she went to
(16:45):
two of my same doctors, see same same doctor. And
we found out when I got a call for an appointment,
and I'm like, but I didn't make an appointment. It
was like literally a gastrol intrologist, like so random, so
like random, but I we went to the same gastrol
(17:06):
intrologists and they put my name in for her appointment.
But we were both your rob. I wasn't then either.
I wasn't then either, and I didn't have the hyphenated name.
But literally, there's another that Kida Robbins in phil who
would ever guess that part spelled the same way too? Say,
(17:29):
I was just about to ask you, what's it the
same spelling And the poor doctor's office was probably mortified
when they realized they met that mistake. So we've alluded
to your scam story, doctor Z, but now we just
want to hear from you. How did your relationship with
(17:51):
this person begin and how did you realize that you
were being scammed. Take a deep breath if you need to.
Oh no, I'm good because when you're no longer bothered
by it, you don't have a reaction. I'm actually okay.
I mean this was like twenty years ago ago, So
it started. I actually was interested in him, and I
(18:14):
had another friend of was like, oh, look you remember
him from back in the day. I'm interested in don't
you know. He'd be tall, handsul, looked like he got
it going on. Look like he got it going on right.
So start to end it was three years. You know
how like people start having issues and sob stories. Now
(18:38):
I will say again not to throw the person totally
under the bus. I don't know if it was intended
to be the way that it did or it could
have been. And I'm just like aloof to it. It
would start with like little sob stories. And when you
are a giver and a fixer, there are some people
that like prey on that. Absolutely right, love bombing occurred.
(19:02):
So you're just like this person loves me. Oh he
needs a cell phone, Oh okay, Oh he needs clothes.
Oh oh, you're trying to go and see your kids
in another state and you don't have the money. It's
like right, right, right, And it's like you got me
around the family, you have me around your friends. We're
together all the time. I want to be supportive. So
(19:24):
it's just like I am that supportive check. Like the
thing is, if you are down, I'm not going to
leave you down. But you do have to pay attention
when one person's hands is always in their pockets and
you the one with your hands always given wow. So
it started with sob stories and it just escalated, escalated
(19:46):
to a cell phone bill. Now you got a cell
phone on my playing, and it's like, Okay, when you
have the money, you pay it. When not, it's like
it's gonna get paid because that's on. I'm gonna keep
my phone on. And then it would be oh, like right,
you need a ride to work? Cool, because I want
to make sure you get the work. I had a
flexible schedule. Get The word was just like, you know what,
(20:07):
whatever it is you need, I got you because that
is what a loyal person does. You know you're in
the relationship, You're gonna make sure that you make is okay.
You're going to make sure that those barriers are removed.
Got it. I'm tracking with you right now, but I
have to know, as a woman of color, doctor Z,
(20:27):
I know, were you telling your friends this stuff? And
they were like, girl, not at all, not understand because
you could you don't want to, but you also just
don't want to hold the stuff against them, right because
then you don't want nobody looking at him like, okay,
So you weren't telling even though you were okay, you
kept all these different things to yourself. Okay. I think
(20:50):
people don't want to share it because although they're seeing it,
they don't want to believe it. Yeah, So, Sam, what
stood out to you when you're hearing doctor Z tell
her story? What were the red flags? The first bit
where she said the little sub stories. And I'm a
great believer that someone will give you a test and
(21:12):
they will see how much you will take. So it
might be a little thing of can you just lay
out ten dollars to see if you will do it?
It just starts off in those little things to see
if they com mold you into what they want. And
definitely the love bombing where they make you feel that
(21:33):
you need them and that you're reliant on them. And
I really think that the common denominator on all victims
of romance fraud is that they pick people that are
kind and caring. They will test very early on, so
as the key of saying, there's small things, and then
(21:55):
gradually they just get bigger and bigger. Happily went from
little little it a little little too big. When did
you see it with Clara? I want to say, really
when the person was incarcerated. They ended up being incarcerated,
(22:18):
and then I started finding out that they were telling
other women the same exact story and then getting other
things from them other women. Wait, right, right, look right,
you had that Wait what I can't even lean back
in my chair because I don't want my chair to
squeak and messed up this recording. I can't even lean back.
(22:39):
And it was like, oh, like it took a minute.
It took a minute because I won't even say that
friends and family were probably in on it as well,
because it was just like you're hiding other things. But
then you can't hide things, but for so long you can't.
God through the universe or whatever showed me what I
(22:59):
needed to see when I saw it, and this was
almost three years in, this was yea, And it took
him literally being incarcerated, and that was when the jig
started to be upright. Wow, I am absolutely that's and
I want to dig all the way into this because
there's so many people that are going to be gifted
(23:22):
by your experience of sharing the truth of this, because
someone is in the midst of this right now and
they may not want to accept the reality of it.
They may be in denial about what's happening with them.
But that is amazing. Sam, you're listening to this, What
are you saying to yourself as a professional? Okay? I
(23:42):
think one thing that people don't realize as well is
obviously it's happening to both men and women, and people
think it's normally men that are the scammers, but people
don't stop and think it's actually probably a group of
people and they're all taking on this one identity and
(24:02):
initially they will kind of cast their net really wide
to catch people. Especially with the ones that don't meet.
It's different if you've met them. That's just it's wrong,
isn't it to actually meet somebody and build a life
with them. But I'm seeing an increase in that as well.
But certainly for the ones that meet online and they
(24:24):
don't talk, they don't video chat. This is why I
created road datas because a crime hasn't been committed at
this stage yet. They need somewhere to turn to to findancers.
Otherwise you're just going to fall down that rabbit hole.
And it's it's just terrible. It's a slippery slope, right,
it is because you're emotionally invested. We would let our
(24:47):
heart rule our head rather than the other way. But
the key would you saying to see him as manipulation
is nanachrome. It's only when other airsets get involved, but
a manipulation of feelings. It's grooming, it's greening leading grooming, right,
(25:07):
all those things didn't It's so interesting to me because
if you think about it, the new language that we
have scammers, it's been going on forever, right, has social
media added to the ease of it, because like you said, saying,
you don't even have to see anybody, you don't have
(25:28):
to even meet these people face to face, and they're
still getting scammed. And it's even with the games that
you can play online. If it's got a chat facility,
that you can connect with somebody on the other side
of the world and chat to them. The scammers will
come through and try and get hold of you that way.
(25:49):
A doctor Z like, it's already bad enough that you
invested three years of your time and your energy into
this relationship before you said no more. But what did
the leading up to no more to look like? Because
I think maybe sometimes people loyal to this person, I
do love the before, right, love without a limit? Literally,
(26:09):
what was your limit? Okay? So it was like things
would get bigger and bigger and bigger, and against cell phone, sneakers, jeans, clothes,
kids clothes. It was like, oh, airline ticket again, driving
to and from work, you get to and from work,
because if you get into and from work, you ain't
(26:30):
gonna be in my pockets. I don't want to see
you be self sufficient. And then it was like a
big ask. So here's what I noticed. When you share
your joys with some people, when you share, oh my goodness,
my credit score is going up, my credit limit is
going up, you're sharing it for joy. Some people are
(26:51):
listening to that to see how they can manipulate it
to get at that. How can they benefit from the
work that you put in to increase your credit score,
to increase your income, and so you're like, let's celebrate.
My credit score is great. I got a credit increase
of another ten or twenty dollars in. Instead of being
(27:11):
like that's fantastic, bag great, it's like, oh, I can
I get this? You know right now you ain't drink before.
They're definitely hearing a different language to what you're saying.
It's translating into the heads as I can take more yes,
and again, I'm honestly that is what I have learned
(27:34):
like now, but even just going back to then, it
was then it was like a big ask. You know what,
I have this business opportunity. I have this business opportunity,
and don't you have access to like um? Back then,
it was like what's those checks? It was like the
balance transfer checks that you can get the money put
directly into your account. What I'm gonna do is I
(27:55):
have this business opportunity. I can flip it and give
it right back. Okay, I can get it right back
by the end of the month. Mmmmmm. So the sense
of urgency, m yeah, just like you've seen me bring
in some more income and I just need access to
more money so that I can get access to more things.
(28:17):
And that was how it just escalated, escalated, escalated to
the point of I'm helping you get out of the
situation as well, because now it's like, well, I feel
like if I didn't get that to you, then you
wouldn't end up in this precarious situation. So now I
got to help, right, So I helped put you in there,
(28:39):
So now I got correct and I gotta make you
a whole. In the episode, the original Red Table episode
and the aftermath of Nicki and her dad Melvin realizing
they have been scammed out of their life savings and
it was gone forever, Nothing says he fell into a
dark hole for a month during which he basically just drank,
which was heartbreaking to here. But I feel like you
(29:00):
probably get to a place where you're just stuck, right
you just don't even know what to do. Dr Z.
Was that your experience or anything similar? And what happened
after you realized enough is enough? All of my money's
gone or my savings. I know you mentioned the thirty dollars,
but once you tabulated that amount in your head and
said this has really happened, what was next for you?
(29:23):
What happened? So even to continue this story, I found
out that's when I started to find out that when
I was saying what's saying, he cast a wide web.
And the thing is, they cast that wide web because
if some people get caught into that web, if this
one doesn't do it, or if this doesn't work out
with this one, then I can go on to this
one and then oh, I have other options in the
(29:45):
event that this one does not work out. So I
actually found out right, and then they started treating me poorly,
of course, right, because who are you to find out
that I ain't ship? Right? Who are you to find
out that I ain't ship? So now I can't talk
to you no more because you know, you don't found
out that I ain't ship. And now it was it
(30:07):
was now narcissism because you're grand and you're big out
here in the community, lying into a whole bunch of people.
Because another friend even came and he was like, Oh,
what happened to all of these houses that person had?
He ain't got ship? Wow. But I think that goes
back to what we said a little while ago. The
social media helped perpetuate it, and I think it's the
(30:28):
allure of what you can share on social media gives
people their own pressure of I gotta keep this up
twenty years ago. This was before even Facebook came out,
because it was literally like twenty years ago. But yeah,
I think people forget that social media is not real
and you can portray any image that you want, can
be anywhere in the world, anytime, any place, doing anything
(30:50):
you want, and you can actually make yourself look completely
different to your reality, and people do that. The kid
can I ask, did you confrom Tim? Never? Yes, I did,
and that's how it ended up ending. He was like
emailing people from my computers. So I'm like, oh, I
figured out his pass where y'all? And then I saw
(31:11):
like letters between him and another person, him and two
other people. He was literally saying the same thing to
me that he was saying to them literally, So somebody
have to change your story. You're saying the same example word.
But you know what, that makes sense to me because
I just need to make sure I stick to the script.
This is this is my my con so it's working
(31:34):
on somebody, so I'm just gonna keep using it over
and over again. Sam, Is that pretty typical. Yeah. I
just say to people, if you meet somebody, to ask
questions and it might be something like did you have
a dog when you were a child, what type of
dog was it? What name did the dog have? And
then re asked them almost like you've forgotten about it
(31:54):
in a couple of weeks, time to see if they
give you the same answer because something random. They probably
don't have that scripted, but will they remember. So it's
about keeping general conversation, but almost trying to catch them
out as well, right, because if they lie about anything,
they lie about everything. If they will know about everything,
(32:14):
you all know me trying to understand folks in your mind,
you probably are just like what happened make you go
to that survival of its called being a criminal? Criminal?
I'm a criminal criminal criminal, Like I feel like you
like prey on was like are they praying for you?
(32:36):
Are they praying on you? You are being prayed upon.
You are a victim totally, I mean unequivocally, you are
a victim. There's no logical reason you should be out
of thirty thousand dollars and feel completely used and abused
having been in a relationship with someone for three years.
(32:57):
How did other people react to when they found out?
Because I don't know about in America, but certainly in
the UK, people are very very unfair to the victims
of romance fraud and they kind of vilify them and
they say, oh, they say stupid, I would never full
for it, and it's it's just really unfair. Well until now,
(33:20):
on my end, I know there's like one person that
I never gave the number, but they knew just because
they were lied to about the things that this person had,
because they knew the person too. Um and I actually
I met one of my best friends who was still
my best friend today from that from literally from like
(33:41):
through that person, and we are like the best of
friends today. That that makes it hard too, because it's
like I had a lot of great things come from that,
maybe great trips. Whether you pay for them or not.
You can still have good moments and not enjoy the situations.
You can appreciate experiences and still have a lesson learned. Right,
There's so many emotions that are connected to this. It's
(34:03):
not just money, right, because you start to question yourself,
question your judgment. I'm really happy to hear that your
friends still with the person, because I think I would
have disassociated myself with everyone that was associated with him,
just from pure suspicion. I'm like, no, you knew. Yeah,
so they weren't like friends friends. She knew, so it
wasn't like she was like absolutely friends with him. He
(34:24):
would go and tell her Zob stories too. So, like
I said, nobody knows, because again it was embarrassed. I
definitely got emotionally scam back in the day. I know
the hope was from everybody just lying at me. I
just do you know what the cara If you meet
(34:45):
somebody on the dating app and they've told a small lie,
they've lied about their height, is that acceptable or not?
I personally think it's unacceptable because if they say that
the a six ft tool and the five foot tool,
you're getting tonight test. So if you're accepting of thought,
(35:08):
you're gonna accept other things that they lie about. Listen,
we're working on it every day. We gotta just know
we want right and affirm ourselves, like listening to Tracy.
The more every day I grow and I'm forty here,
I just realized people really don't know who they are,
what they want with truth, they want to believe except
live with and they are just still slithering through life.
(35:29):
Those snakes. I don't know, but people are growing to
accept themselves more and more. Dr Z, how do you
feel overall about your scammer? And have you yourself forgiven him?
And have you forgiven yourself? Absolutely forgiving myself. I don't
think about that person at all and completely, I'm gonna say,
like disappeared. And then I didn't go after them either,
(35:51):
because that's what the embarrassment did. And it was just like,
by I hate to say it, you're just dead to me. Whatever,
don't see me, don't hear we don't touch me. I'll
figure it out. I was reclused for a little bit
for a little bit, and then it was just like, girl,
get yourself together, you know what you gotta do. And
when you realize that again, that person's hands is always
(36:13):
in their pocket and you're always the one doing the giving.
When you realize you pay attention to that, you know
what I mean. And that took forgiveness on my own part,
because before it was just like I'm trying to mess
with nobody. But who am I to let that situation
stop me from loving again? Hell no, no, no, no
no no, Just behave differently, Just behave differently. I'm I
(36:38):
am happy to hear that. I really that you were like,
no way, Sam, we want to hear some more about
no way. We want to know, like we need some help. Okay,
you help prevent rodmance scams, but I'm sure you also
hear from people who have already lost money, like Dr C.
To help us and our listeners understand the broad spectrum
of scams out there. What are some of the scams,
(37:01):
whether they're attempted or successful, that you come across in
your work, and how can others avoid them? You definitely
want to help people avoid this. Okay. We've heard multiple
instances of people being in especially in the US Army,
and they're deployed and all of a sudden they have
(37:22):
some situation where they're injured and they need medical emergency treatment.
I think people forget that the army would see to them.
We get family members that have suddenly been taken ill,
or it could be a business person who all of
a sudden their financial accounts have all been closed down
and it's all about that emergency quick. We need help.
(37:47):
But I think what people could do to really stop
it is used search engines, carry out checks, put their
name into a search engine, their local patient company that
they work for. A company that they own. Do these
things all add up. Run searches on photographs that can
(38:09):
give away a lot of information. Just do the checks.
And I have a lot of people that say to me,
but that's wrong early on in a relationship, why would
I do that. I'm trusting somebody, and I always say
that you wouldn't take a job without doing some research
on the company. Just do a bit of research and
(38:31):
if things still don't seem right, listen to that instinct,
contact us at road Datas when wait, Sam, I was
told years ago by someone, if you have a background,
it needs to be checked. And so that makes perfect
to me. We pick up a book, we read about
what the books about, so it's just the same thing.
(38:53):
It's just a small check. You don't need to go
FBI style into their whole life, but just run a
few checks. Right, We're definitely gonna run these checks. Thank
you Technology and Google. We appreciate you because we were
just out here blind in these two thousands, won't we Well.
Some people go through great lengths to calm and scam people.
(39:16):
A really good friend of mine recently had someone she
was getting catfished, and the person said, like you said, Sam,
they were in the military and deployed and wanted to
date and had taken someone else's not just their photo,
but assumed part of their identity so much as to
even get their work addressed, like where they were, and
then created all these stories. And she kept pressing and
(39:39):
pressing and pressing, and thankfully she comes. She was like, Chase,
I think I'm being catfished. And I was like, wait
a minute, let me get my laptop. People are really terrible,
you know. I'm just gonna say, people trash. People tell
you get over it and it but it's truly, this
is trauma. Whether you think it's just just a side
(40:01):
part of my life. And yeah they didn't maybe still
a credit card and wipe out a bank account, but
it's just as manipulative and ATSD Listen to listen to
the doctor said, people are trash, right, some people can trash. Right.
She at least she ain't carrying it to everybody qualifier
on there this time, but she right energy too. I like,
(40:23):
I meant, well, let's talk about that. Listen. How has
your scam experience and we know it's been a significant
number of years, but how has it affected your life
since and what lessons or traumas do you think you
carry with you still? Are you even triggered when people
ask you for money? Man, don't ask me. Don't ask
(40:44):
me for a quarter. Don't ask me for a quarters.
But I had that point, don't ask me for nothing,
because literally, even right after that, the next person was
similar to the person was simular. They were great on paper.
But then I still, man, I started to see that.
I was like, I thought he was secretly on drugs
(41:06):
or something. I ain't gonna lie because we should have
had money. How do you need me to help you
by gas? And it's just like you look great on paper.
You got this high profile job, I'm telling you, pure
profile picture. Friends, I thought the next guy was secretly
on drugs because I'm like, how you just need like
little pieces of stuff. So I was like, you know what,
We're gonna did this right now, because what I'm not
(41:26):
gonna do is keep being nickel and dimed for my kindness.
Let's make sure I got this right. The person right
after the next person, right after the scammer. H yep,
why these people even dating? That's the first thing. So yeah, right,
and again on paper, the title that person held and
(41:47):
they had like two jobs. I'm like, yo, what is
going on? Because ain't no way. I'm like, do I
look like vic? Okay? Okay, So now you did start
to question your selection choices, your judgment. Did you start
to wonder, lay a second here, what what the heck
is going on? I am too kind? Important? Right? That
(42:12):
made me look like a sugar mama because I'm not
like flashy. I'm not like, I'm not a flashy person.
I'm not a boasty person or anything like that. But
it's like, what do people see that? It's just like,
it comes back to what I said earlier. Kind and trusting,
That's what it is. Yeah, they see that in you,
and that opens the gates for them to take right.
(42:36):
And it's a shame because it's such a it's such
lovely qualities to have, but it goes against you. Really,
it's terrible, doesn't it? Just say it is? We just
have to pay attention drs he again, your story is
gonna change some lives out here. Your story. First of all,
before you go, I want to tell you how much
(42:57):
I really appreciate you sharing your story because for you
to have never told another soul or group of people
or share this with your family, and to come to
us and be at our virtual red table to share
this and your experience so that you can be a
help to others is a total gift. So thank you
(43:18):
so much for that. It is difficult for you. It's
difficult to share that truth, and so I appreciate you
being vulnerable enough to to open yourself up and let
us ask you questions. And Sam, you are on a mission,
and thank you for being a safeguard and a gatekeeper
for people to maintain their safety and their funds from
(43:42):
not just being heartbroken, but being cleaned out as well.
So thank you, Sam. If you could leave us and
our listeners with one final takeaway about avoiding scams, what
would it be. Trust your instinct, don't ignore it. If
it doesn't feel right, something is not and question it
and explore it. And don't give money. If someone's asking
(44:06):
you for money, reverse it and think to yourself, if
I need money, is this the person I would go to?
And at the time the answer would be no, that's good.
That's good. Trust your and stints. Don't give money. Don't
give money, no money. We could talk, I could literally
talk to y'all going to know more and more and more,
(44:29):
and Sam, I'm absolutely fascinating the company with the rogue Daters.
I think you're getting ready because you're probably gonna see
an influx of people contact you because it's better than
the cheats. That's always a big fear. You just don't
want that thing to roll up, you man. So yeah,
I'm here. Thank you so much for joining us. You've
(44:49):
been fantastic hosts and here you've been so brave and
I can guarantee you will make a big difference to
lots of people. Yes, thank you, so your fa I agree, Sam,
thank you both so much for coming to the Virtual
Red Table. We appreciate you both. We're going to take
a short break right now, and when we return, we'll
share our top five takeaways from this episode. I learned
(45:19):
a lot during this episode and from our guests, but
now it's time to share our thoughts. So possessing Cara
and Tracy's top five thoughts. I love this. This is
the part of the show where we speed through the
top five thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Cara, I'm
gonna go in and fire them all. So number five,
(45:40):
we have trust, confusion, urgency. These are the pillars of
a scam to watch out four, So watch out for them.
Number four. When you receive a strange message, go to
the sources. Absolutely, do not believe these people because they
will allow you to think it's legit. Because why they're liars,
(46:04):
Because they're liars. Listen, that's the quart of the week.
It's just the honesty for me. The next one, number three,
don't click on a link if you don't know where
it'll take you. That's me, that's me. I will reply
to a friend in a minute where you get this
link from, and it's probably got them anyway, It's probably
not them anyway. That's the part. Number two. You creative
(46:27):
passwords and change them often. Last, but not least, our
number one moment. Trust your instincts. Trust what's happening on
the inside. If something doesn't feel right, if it feels
a little fishy, that goud knows it might be wrong. Facts.
We want to know how you're feeling about this new
(46:48):
season of Red Table Talk. We're open to talk about
anything with you all, so sending your questions at less
red tables that at red table talk dot com, or
send us a voice mess as speak pip dot com.
Slash Let's Red Table That's and maybe you'll be featured
on a future episode. We'd love to hear from you
(47:09):
on that. Thank you so much for listening, and make
sure you subscribe on iHeart Radio app, and please rate
this podcast on Apple Podcast. We want a five. By
the way, rate us a five. We'll be back next
week for another episode of Let's Red Table That. A
big thank you to our executive producers Jada Pinkett Smith,
Ellen Racketson and Balon Jethrow. And thank you to our
(47:32):
producer Kyla Kneu and our associate producer y Lambda Chow.
And finally, thank you to our sound engineers Calvin Baila
and Devin Donnaheet. Hey, Let's hey, Let's red Table that. Hey,
that's a jingle for me.
Are you ready for another fantastic episode? Or what I
am you right now? I'm ready? You know how we
say it, Let's connect, let's grow, let's go, let's red table.
That's red table. That Hey y'all, Hey, what's up? And
welcome to Let's Red Table back. I'm Tracy T. Brow
and I'm Cora Presley, and we are talking about scams
(00:23):
again today, but this time. This time we have a
guest coming on who lost thirty dollars sure, supposed boyfriend okay,
and to help get some context around what happened and
to inform all of us how to not fall prey
to scams such as this. We also have a private
investigative joining us who specializes in making sure the people
(00:47):
you meet online are who they say they are. Let's
get started, man, Listen, listen, Tracy, have you been skimming before?
I guess that says it all. Well, you know, the
scams are in a spectrum too, right, There's a divide
between scam versus identity their first fraud, online fraud or
(01:11):
just or just a fool. Because I've been a food
several times. I was a fool and being scamming, scammed
off at the same time, it was just the same. Yeah,
and it wasn't even it was like, it wasn't even financial,
So let me talk about that. I just realized I
was a pun in a situation with the X. I
was the girlfriend. I had believed at the time I
(01:34):
was a girlfriend, And evidently they had several other girlfriends
and they had to go to court, and they had
told their other girlfriends that I was paying for the lawyer.
Oh my gosh, it was actually a quarter point of lawyers.
And I was like, what's happening here? So just being
a part or in the mix of that. Wait, wait, wait,
(01:57):
the other girlfriends thought you were paying They gave money
to pay you to pay the No, no, no, never
an exchange of funds, nothing like that. It was just
when things started to unravel as this person was incarcerated,
it was, yeah, we know you're paying for the quarter
pointed lawyer. I'm actually the girlfriend. You actually not the girlfriend.
(02:18):
I'm actually the girlfriend. And he definitely has a quarter
pointed lawyer that is absolutely free. So I don't know
what part of court acquainted. People believe what they want
to believe, and we were all fools for this one individual.
So that was scam moment you. I just want you
to know you're not alone and getting scamming scammed. The
(02:43):
appreciate a lot of stuff going on Red Table Talk.
They had the inventing Anna right, had the tender Swindler.
Now we have a lovely daughter and father. It's been
scammed in this episode. It's a lot. People are going
through a lot nowadays. I just I think because we
all are on the side of giving people the benefit
(03:05):
of the doubt. We talked about that benefit what people
are saying, because why would you lie? But we know
what they would lie now we know because they are liars.
That's the part right there. Thank you, Tracy. That's exactly
what they are. No, it's the truth as plain as
(03:27):
you can say. Yes. And I can't tell you how
many times you have this. I bet my mom regularly
calls me and says, Tracy, I need to go. I
got this email and I need to fill this out
and I need to pay. And I'm like, Mom, you don't, Oh,
these people, you don't know, these people, you have no
(03:47):
account with these people. Cut it out? Are sure? She
wants to be sure. That's one of the other groups
of people that are so taken advantage of the scamps
on a regular basis, senior citizens. My mom is the same.
She wants to do right. She if she has a bill,
we're gonna go and knock it out. We don't want
anything on our credit or think that goes back to
trauma of just life and trying to raise that credit
score depending on where you are in life. You don't
(04:07):
want it to fall for anything. So of course they
want to handle it asap and people know that. So
we've had an opportunity to top. But you know, we
absolutely love being able to hear from our community. Car right,
So we asked our community, how do you keep yourself
safe from scams? And here are some of your answers.
Tristan Scott, who is from my Red Table Talk RBA community.
(04:28):
She says, don't log in or click on the thing. Listen, trysted,
We are with you. Tryst And Scott's like, just don't
touch anything, okay, don't do it. Don't in, don't touch anything,
don't click anything. Just keep yourself and sanitize your hands,
right right, I understand, And you're bond, Romy said, don't
(04:52):
click on any link. This is the thing. You're bond.
We agree, it's hard if you click on links, that's
now unsubscribe, getting put into a whole, another land, a
whole in other world. Diane Feeling Cook said, I refused
to give in to pressure. When people call me asking
for money, I'm want you. Diane's good, it's a note
(05:15):
for me. That's good because that's one of the tactics,
right to use pressure. That was the whole I R
scam was like, you have to pay and you need
to use a card. That's like you go to the
place they did that. There's a scam here locally where
they were using our utility company, and really, okay, you
had to pay or your utilities gonna be cut off.
And to pay with a card, like you have to
(05:36):
go to a certain store and get a certain cards
five And it's exactly like what that is so pitiful, right,
And someone like me just say, y'all just have to
cut it off. I want to see it. That's where
I met with go ahead and do it, Go ahead
and do it. Our community, Come on, our community is amazing.
They're not clicking on links or anything. You guys are
(05:59):
keeping yourselves safe, and we appreciate that. Before we take
a quick break, we want to remind you that you
can leave us a review on our Heart Radio and
Apple podcast, which helps us know you're listening and gives
us more visibility so other listeners can find us. Now,
time for a break before we welcome our guests. We're
(06:24):
bringing to fellow RTT community members to the Virtual Red Table.
Samantha Cooper is a private investigator in London and the
founder of Rogue Daters. I Love That, a company that
specializes in investigating people on dating sites for clients who
want to make sure they're meeting potential love interests, not catfishers.
(06:45):
She started this company after her divorce led her to
try outdating sites and she did not like what she
was saying. Whoa, We are so ready, I mean really
ready to hear your stories and all the red flag
acts you've seen that we should be looking out for.
Thanks for joining us, un let's you're at table that Samantha,
(07:06):
Thank you for having me. Yes, now we're calling you, Samantha.
We're calling you Sam. All that mind you can go
with sign because Sam Sam the investigator just sounds good.
I love that. I love it. And we have doctor
Zakia Robins McNeil. She's joining us from Minnesota, to share
her story of being scammed out of thirty thou dollars
(07:27):
by her boyfriend at the time. Hey, dr Z, I
know you see I can call you that right listen.
She thought she was building a relationship with the man
she loved, but after three years, she discovered she wasn't
the only woman he was dating or using for money.
Doctor Z has not shared the story publicly or with
any people in her life, so we are grateful that
she is with us today to hopefully help others avoid
(07:49):
this type of situation. Thank you again for joining us,
doctor Z. Thank you for having me. Doctor is a kid.
We want to beat that man up. Listen. We do
like stopped going it already. This is part of the
(08:12):
show where we reveal which moments made us pause, rewind,
and listen again. I love this. It's the wait what
wait what when Nikki and her dad Melvin, revealed they
had lost wait for this, two hundred eighty thousand dollars
each to a cryptocurrency scam. I met this person in
(08:36):
early November and we lost everything by the end of December. Well,
how much had you invested? By that? We invest in
all the house money that we had two thousand. Yeah,
it was everything we had. Okay, that was Wait what
it was heart stopping clutching the pearls? Wait what for me?
That's a life savings? Yeah? How did you ladies feel
(08:58):
about that when you saw it? In the episode that
was that was Wait one minute? Right? Will you see
me leaning back? Right? Lean with it? They could be triggering, right,
Watching that episode was very triggering, triggering. Unfortunately, I've seen
(09:22):
other cases that are similar to this and it still
shocks me to my core today. So two dollars is
just somebody's future. It's terrible, right, that's key somebody's future.
But it also affects their confidence of their own judgment
because they can't believe that somebody would do that to them,
(09:46):
and they start to question every decision that they've made
that's led up to the parting with the money? Right?
What about Also when Jada shared that she almost got
scammed because her friend's email got hecked. It people's emails
would get hacked, So you're thinking you're getting it from
someone that you know. I just got one of those
(10:07):
prominent friend of mine. They said they couldn't get to money.
Could I go and get this money? I called her assistant,
and of course they were like her email had been hacked,
so at least there was an assistant involved. But have
you guys ever received a weird email from a friend
or those messages on social media? I've seen him on
(10:27):
Instagram right right, Facebook, Instagram right like wait, wait a minute,
it don't even say I'm like you exactly, and I
love like hello dear or my queen. I think my
queen okay? And who called queen exactly exactly. I got
(10:49):
added on Twitter by Liam Neathan, the actor, who had
nine people that he was following, and I was one
of them. And then we had the old that's its
need to message me to ask if I liked his movies,
and I thought, gosh, he obviously doesn't know, so I
did reply and saying I'm a romance fraud investigator. I
(11:11):
didn't hear anything back, but I did block him and
report him and the profile has been taken down. But
it's just a sheer audacity of it. But it's the
idea then for you to believe, like all the billions
of people in the world, Liam Neeson picked me, I'm
a hopeless romantic too, and give me like that, you know,
(11:31):
the Chad though they're going to jack exactly. But if
they follow hundreds of people and then thousands of people,
I know they won't have a blue tick because they
won't get verified. But other people could miss that and
think they're actually really popular, and yeah, maybe this is
some kind of side account that's been made. So yeah,
(11:53):
they need to be stopped very early on. I think
I'm going to start telling people I'm a fraud investigators
just to get them off my back. You want leave
me alone. My name is Sam, and I investigate fraud
trying to scam me? Hilarious, That's exactly what's gonna happen.
(12:18):
One of the other weight what moments that we had
was when Evil the Last Quest, The CEO of Identity
Theft Resource Center shared the while in twenty twenty people
lost up for about a hundred and twenty million dollars
to crypto scams, in one losses skyrocketed to seven hundred
fifty million dollars. Now when we look at cryptocurrency as
(12:43):
a fraud payment tool, in the losses were about a
hundred and twenty four million that were reported to the
Federal Trade Commission. Hold on, if that blows your mind.
Seven hundred and fifty million. That's so crazy, But it
also makes sense to me because as you think about
part of the pandemic, people were at home. They were
(13:04):
looking for I hate to say this, but looking for
love and all the wrong places, you know that song
and its lonely and maybe wanting to believe something that
wasn't true because they were socially deprived. What do y'all think? Yeah,
looking for quick money? How can I my money? How
can I my money? I see other people doing good,
(13:25):
they're flipping their money, and we just have more time
to scroll. So I think that the scrolling time increased. Therefore,
the which is scrolling past increase, the whole time increased.
The scam time increased, that definitely. And I also think
that people at an older age are using smartphones that
maybe they hadn't used before. And I don't think they
(13:47):
realize that when you're online, you're letting people into your home,
into your safe space. You wouldn't naturally let through your
front door. Right, that's so true. That's such a old
number though, from a hundred million to seven hundred fifty
million in one year, that's a way to figure that.
(14:07):
Heckel Jackal and hide. I think you need to remember
those are reported figures. It will be way higher that
part that yes, Sam reported right right the other way, what,
of course, is not just the money but their actual face.
Even Christian King's whole story of having his photos stolen
(14:31):
and used on countless social media accounts and dating sites
and then him being contacted by the victims, bless their hearts,
who were madly in love. Right. I just started getting
messages on my social media. People will reach out to
me and be like, hey, did you know that your
images are being used? And I started getting hundreds of
messages a day. I've had women reach out to me
and tell me that they sent tens of thousands of
(14:53):
dollars with promises that I'm going to come home to them,
meet their family, and we're gonna started life together. Can
you imagine this happening to you? I personally can't because
it's like, what what do you do with that? What
did I say to you? That was my first question.
What was I saying? Because it's oh, that is hilarious,
(15:14):
car What What did the pseudoman say? What did I say?
That's very very good question. But could you imagine you're
walking down the Street, and you've got these people coming
up to saying, why didn't you call me back, Why
didn't you message me? You owe me money or to
your partner or something. You've seen him with another girl
(15:36):
like you spout like, lady, I don't know you, what's happening? Yes, ridiculous, ridiculous.
I felt for Tristan King because that's just horrifying. But
that's one of the challenges of being good looking. Bless
their hearts. People used you use your picture and images
and likenesses for catfishing, right. I'm sure it's flattering, but
(16:00):
it must be very, very annoying. So on a serious note,
have you ever googled pictures of yourself to see that
these are little pictures that you've put up? Yes, I have,
because I found when I was scammed Forever Go, when
my identity was stolen Forever and Go in the nineties,
I looked up Tracy Road to see just how many
(16:21):
there were, if there were any others, because I thought
I was one of one, And turns out I was
one of five hundred and forty one, and so there
were a lots. There are lots and lots of pictures
of Tracy Row. So I made sure that my middle
initial was included to differentiate me, just ever so slightly
so that it makes a little bit of a difference.
I never thought about that. How about there was another
as a kid, Robbins in Philadelphia, and she went to
(16:45):
two of my same doctors, see same same doctor. And
we found out when I got a call for an appointment,
and I'm like, but I didn't make an appointment. It
was like literally a gastrol intrologist, like so random, so
like random, but I we went to the same gastrol
(17:06):
intrologists and they put my name in for her appointment.
But we were both your rob. I wasn't then either.
I wasn't then either, and I didn't have the hyphenated name.
But literally, there's another that Kida Robbins in phil who
would ever guess that part spelled the same way too? Say,
(17:29):
I was just about to ask you, what's it the
same spelling And the poor doctor's office was probably mortified
when they realized they met that mistake. So we've alluded
to your scam story, doctor Z, but now we just
want to hear from you. How did your relationship with
(17:51):
this person begin and how did you realize that you
were being scammed. Take a deep breath if you need to.
Oh no, I'm good because when you're no longer bothered
by it, you don't have a reaction. I'm actually okay.
I mean this was like twenty years ago ago, So
it started. I actually was interested in him, and I
(18:14):
had another friend of was like, oh, look you remember
him from back in the day. I'm interested in don't
you know. He'd be tall, handsul, looked like he got
it going on. Look like he got it going on right.
So start to end it was three years. You know
how like people start having issues and sob stories. Now
(18:38):
I will say again not to throw the person totally
under the bus. I don't know if it was intended
to be the way that it did or it could
have been. And I'm just like aloof to it. It
would start with like little sob stories. And when you
are a giver and a fixer, there are some people
that like prey on that. Absolutely right, love bombing occurred.
(19:02):
So you're just like this person loves me. Oh he
needs a cell phone, Oh okay, Oh he needs clothes.
Oh oh, you're trying to go and see your kids
in another state and you don't have the money. It's
like right, right, right, And it's like you got me
around the family, you have me around your friends. We're
together all the time. I want to be supportive. So
(19:24):
it's just like I am that supportive check. Like the
thing is, if you are down, I'm not going to
leave you down. But you do have to pay attention
when one person's hands is always in their pockets and
you the one with your hands always given wow. So
it started with sob stories and it just escalated, escalated
(19:46):
to a cell phone bill. Now you got a cell
phone on my playing, and it's like, Okay, when you
have the money, you pay it. When not, it's like
it's gonna get paid because that's on. I'm gonna keep
my phone on. And then it would be oh, like right,
you need a ride to work? Cool, because I want
to make sure you get the work. I had a
flexible schedule. Get The word was just like, you know what,
(20:07):
whatever it is you need, I got you because that
is what a loyal person does. You know you're in
the relationship, You're gonna make sure that you make is okay.
You're going to make sure that those barriers are removed.
Got it. I'm tracking with you right now, but I
have to know, as a woman of color, doctor Z,
(20:27):
I know, were you telling your friends this stuff? And
they were like, girl, not at all, not understand because
you could you don't want to, but you also just
don't want to hold the stuff against them, right because
then you don't want nobody looking at him like, okay,
So you weren't telling even though you were okay, you
kept all these different things to yourself. Okay. I think
(20:50):
people don't want to share it because although they're seeing it,
they don't want to believe it. Yeah, So, Sam, what
stood out to you when you're hearing doctor Z tell
her story? What were the red flags? The first bit
where she said the little sub stories. And I'm a
great believer that someone will give you a test and
(21:12):
they will see how much you will take. So it
might be a little thing of can you just lay
out ten dollars to see if you will do it?
It just starts off in those little things to see
if they com mold you into what they want. And
definitely the love bombing where they make you feel that
(21:33):
you need them and that you're reliant on them. And
I really think that the common denominator on all victims
of romance fraud is that they pick people that are
kind and caring. They will test very early on, so
as the key of saying, there's small things, and then
(21:55):
gradually they just get bigger and bigger. Happily went from
little little it a little little too big. When did
you see it with Clara? I want to say, really
when the person was incarcerated. They ended up being incarcerated,
(22:18):
and then I started finding out that they were telling
other women the same exact story and then getting other
things from them other women. Wait, right, right, look right,
you had that Wait what I can't even lean back
in my chair because I don't want my chair to
squeak and messed up this recording. I can't even lean back.
(22:39):
And it was like, oh, like it took a minute.
It took a minute because I won't even say that
friends and family were probably in on it as well,
because it was just like you're hiding other things. But
then you can't hide things, but for so long you can't.
God through the universe or whatever showed me what I
(22:59):
needed to see when I saw it, and this was
almost three years in, this was yea, And it took
him literally being incarcerated, and that was when the jig
started to be upright. Wow, I am absolutely that's and
I want to dig all the way into this because
there's so many people that are going to be gifted
(23:22):
by your experience of sharing the truth of this, because
someone is in the midst of this right now and
they may not want to accept the reality of it.
They may be in denial about what's happening with them.
But that is amazing. Sam, you're listening to this, What
are you saying to yourself as a professional? Okay? I
(23:42):
think one thing that people don't realize as well is
obviously it's happening to both men and women, and people
think it's normally men that are the scammers, but people
don't stop and think it's actually probably a group of
people and they're all taking on this one identity and
(24:02):
initially they will kind of cast their net really wide
to catch people. Especially with the ones that don't meet.
It's different if you've met them. That's just it's wrong,
isn't it to actually meet somebody and build a life
with them. But I'm seeing an increase in that as well.
But certainly for the ones that meet online and they
(24:24):
don't talk, they don't video chat. This is why I
created road datas because a crime hasn't been committed at
this stage yet. They need somewhere to turn to to findancers.
Otherwise you're just going to fall down that rabbit hole.
And it's it's just terrible. It's a slippery slope, right,
it is because you're emotionally invested. We would let our
(24:47):
heart rule our head rather than the other way. But
the key would you saying to see him as manipulation
is nanachrome. It's only when other airsets get involved, but
a manipulation of feelings. It's grooming, it's greening leading grooming, right,
(25:07):
all those things didn't It's so interesting to me because
if you think about it, the new language that we
have scammers, it's been going on forever, right, has social
media added to the ease of it, because like you said, saying,
you don't even have to see anybody, you don't have
(25:28):
to even meet these people face to face, and they're
still getting scammed. And it's even with the games that
you can play online. If it's got a chat facility,
that you can connect with somebody on the other side
of the world and chat to them. The scammers will
come through and try and get hold of you that way.
(25:49):
A doctor Z like, it's already bad enough that you
invested three years of your time and your energy into
this relationship before you said no more. But what did
the leading up to no more to look like? Because
I think maybe sometimes people loyal to this person, I
do love the before, right, love without a limit? Literally,
(26:09):
what was your limit? Okay? So it was like things
would get bigger and bigger and bigger, and against cell phone, sneakers, jeans, clothes,
kids clothes. It was like, oh, airline ticket again, driving
to and from work, you get to and from work,
because if you get into and from work, you ain't
(26:30):
gonna be in my pockets. I don't want to see
you be self sufficient. And then it was like a
big ask. So here's what I noticed. When you share
your joys with some people, when you share, oh my goodness,
my credit score is going up, my credit limit is
going up, you're sharing it for joy. Some people are
(26:51):
listening to that to see how they can manipulate it
to get at that. How can they benefit from the
work that you put in to increase your credit score,
to increase your income, and so you're like, let's celebrate.
My credit score is great. I got a credit increase
of another ten or twenty dollars in. Instead of being
(27:11):
like that's fantastic, bag great, it's like, oh, I can
I get this? You know right now you ain't drink before.
They're definitely hearing a different language to what you're saying.
It's translating into the heads as I can take more yes,
and again, I'm honestly that is what I have learned
(27:34):
like now, but even just going back to then, it
was then it was like a big ask. You know what,
I have this business opportunity. I have this business opportunity,
and don't you have access to like um? Back then,
it was like what's those checks? It was like the
balance transfer checks that you can get the money put
directly into your account. What I'm gonna do is I
(27:55):
have this business opportunity. I can flip it and give
it right back. Okay, I can get it right back
by the end of the month. Mmmmmm. So the sense
of urgency, m yeah, just like you've seen me bring
in some more income and I just need access to
more money so that I can get access to more things.
(28:17):
And that was how it just escalated, escalated, escalated to
the point of I'm helping you get out of the
situation as well, because now it's like, well, I feel
like if I didn't get that to you, then you
wouldn't end up in this precarious situation. So now I
got to help, right, So I helped put you in there,
(28:39):
So now I got correct and I gotta make you
a whole. In the episode, the original Red Table episode
and the aftermath of Nicki and her dad Melvin realizing
they have been scammed out of their life savings and
it was gone forever, Nothing says he fell into a
dark hole for a month during which he basically just drank,
which was heartbreaking to here. But I feel like you
(29:00):
probably get to a place where you're just stuck, right
you just don't even know what to do. Dr Z.
Was that your experience or anything similar? And what happened
after you realized enough is enough? All of my money's
gone or my savings. I know you mentioned the thirty dollars,
but once you tabulated that amount in your head and
said this has really happened, what was next for you?
(29:23):
What happened? So even to continue this story, I found
out that's when I started to find out that when
I was saying what's saying, he cast a wide web.
And the thing is, they cast that wide web because
if some people get caught into that web, if this
one doesn't do it, or if this doesn't work out
with this one, then I can go on to this
one and then oh, I have other options in the
(29:45):
event that this one does not work out. So I
actually found out right, and then they started treating me poorly,
of course, right, because who are you to find out
that I ain't ship? Right? Who are you to find
out that I ain't ship? So now I can't talk
to you no more because you know, you don't found
out that I ain't ship. And now it was it
(30:07):
was now narcissism because you're grand and you're big out
here in the community, lying into a whole bunch of people.
Because another friend even came and he was like, Oh,
what happened to all of these houses that person had?
He ain't got ship? Wow. But I think that goes
back to what we said a little while ago. The
social media helped perpetuate it, and I think it's the
(30:28):
allure of what you can share on social media gives
people their own pressure of I gotta keep this up
twenty years ago. This was before even Facebook came out,
because it was literally like twenty years ago. But yeah,
I think people forget that social media is not real
and you can portray any image that you want, can
be anywhere in the world, anytime, any place, doing anything
(30:50):
you want, and you can actually make yourself look completely
different to your reality, and people do that. The kid
can I ask, did you confrom Tim? Never? Yes, I did,
and that's how it ended up ending. He was like
emailing people from my computers. So I'm like, oh, I
figured out his pass where y'all? And then I saw
(31:11):
like letters between him and another person, him and two
other people. He was literally saying the same thing to
me that he was saying to them literally, So somebody
have to change your story. You're saying the same example word.
But you know what, that makes sense to me because
I just need to make sure I stick to the script.
This is this is my my con so it's working
(31:34):
on somebody, so I'm just gonna keep using it over
and over again. Sam, Is that pretty typical. Yeah. I
just say to people, if you meet somebody, to ask
questions and it might be something like did you have
a dog when you were a child, what type of
dog was it? What name did the dog have? And
then re asked them almost like you've forgotten about it
(31:54):
in a couple of weeks, time to see if they
give you the same answer because something random. They probably
don't have that scripted, but will they remember. So it's
about keeping general conversation, but almost trying to catch them
out as well, right, because if they lie about anything,
they lie about everything. If they will know about everything,
(32:14):
you all know me trying to understand folks in your mind,
you probably are just like what happened make you go
to that survival of its called being a criminal? Criminal?
I'm a criminal criminal criminal, Like I feel like you
like prey on was like are they praying for you?
(32:36):
Are they praying on you? You are being prayed upon.
You are a victim totally, I mean unequivocally, you are
a victim. There's no logical reason you should be out
of thirty thousand dollars and feel completely used and abused
having been in a relationship with someone for three years.
(32:57):
How did other people react to when they found out?
Because I don't know about in America, but certainly in
the UK, people are very very unfair to the victims
of romance fraud and they kind of vilify them and
they say, oh, they say stupid, I would never full
for it, and it's it's just really unfair. Well until now,
(33:20):
on my end, I know there's like one person that
I never gave the number, but they knew just because
they were lied to about the things that this person had,
because they knew the person too. Um and I actually
I met one of my best friends who was still
my best friend today from that from literally from like
(33:41):
through that person, and we are like the best of
friends today. That that makes it hard too, because it's
like I had a lot of great things come from that,
maybe great trips. Whether you pay for them or not.
You can still have good moments and not enjoy the situations.
You can appreciate experiences and still have a lesson learned. Right,
There's so many emotions that are connected to this. It's
(34:03):
not just money, right, because you start to question yourself,
question your judgment. I'm really happy to hear that your
friends still with the person, because I think I would
have disassociated myself with everyone that was associated with him,
just from pure suspicion. I'm like, no, you knew. Yeah,
so they weren't like friends friends. She knew, so it
wasn't like she was like absolutely friends with him. He
(34:24):
would go and tell her Zob stories too. So, like
I said, nobody knows, because again it was embarrassed. I
definitely got emotionally scam back in the day. I know
the hope was from everybody just lying at me. I
just do you know what the cara If you meet
(34:45):
somebody on the dating app and they've told a small lie,
they've lied about their height, is that acceptable or not?
I personally think it's unacceptable because if they say that
the a six ft tool and the five foot tool,
you're getting tonight test. So if you're accepting of thought,
(35:08):
you're gonna accept other things that they lie about. Listen,
we're working on it every day. We gotta just know
we want right and affirm ourselves, like listening to Tracy.
The more every day I grow and I'm forty here,
I just realized people really don't know who they are,
what they want with truth, they want to believe except
live with and they are just still slithering through life.
(35:29):
Those snakes. I don't know, but people are growing to
accept themselves more and more. Dr Z, how do you
feel overall about your scammer? And have you yourself forgiven him?
And have you forgiven yourself? Absolutely forgiving myself. I don't
think about that person at all and completely, I'm gonna say,
like disappeared. And then I didn't go after them either,
(35:51):
because that's what the embarrassment did. And it was just like,
by I hate to say it, you're just dead to me. Whatever,
don't see me, don't hear we don't touch me. I'll
figure it out. I was reclused for a little bit
for a little bit, and then it was just like, girl,
get yourself together, you know what you gotta do. And
when you realize that again, that person's hands is always
(36:13):
in their pocket and you're always the one doing the giving.
When you realize you pay attention to that, you know
what I mean. And that took forgiveness on my own part,
because before it was just like I'm trying to mess
with nobody. But who am I to let that situation
stop me from loving again? Hell no, no, no, no
no no, Just behave differently, Just behave differently. I'm I
(36:38):
am happy to hear that. I really that you were like,
no way, Sam, we want to hear some more about
no way. We want to know, like we need some help. Okay,
you help prevent rodmance scams, but I'm sure you also
hear from people who have already lost money, like Dr C.
To help us and our listeners understand the broad spectrum
of scams out there. What are some of the scams,
(37:01):
whether they're attempted or successful, that you come across in
your work, and how can others avoid them? You definitely
want to help people avoid this. Okay. We've heard multiple
instances of people being in especially in the US Army,
and they're deployed and all of a sudden they have
(37:22):
some situation where they're injured and they need medical emergency treatment.
I think people forget that the army would see to them.
We get family members that have suddenly been taken ill,
or it could be a business person who all of
a sudden their financial accounts have all been closed down
and it's all about that emergency quick. We need help.
(37:47):
But I think what people could do to really stop
it is used search engines, carry out checks, put their
name into a search engine, their local patient company that
they work for. A company that they own. Do these
things all add up. Run searches on photographs that can
(38:09):
give away a lot of information. Just do the checks.
And I have a lot of people that say to me,
but that's wrong early on in a relationship, why would
I do that. I'm trusting somebody, and I always say
that you wouldn't take a job without doing some research
on the company. Just do a bit of research and
(38:31):
if things still don't seem right, listen to that instinct,
contact us at road Datas when wait, Sam, I was
told years ago by someone, if you have a background,
it needs to be checked. And so that makes perfect
to me. We pick up a book, we read about
what the books about, so it's just the same thing.
(38:53):
It's just a small check. You don't need to go
FBI style into their whole life, but just run a
few checks. Right, We're definitely gonna run these checks. Thank
you Technology and Google. We appreciate you because we were
just out here blind in these two thousands, won't we Well.
Some people go through great lengths to calm and scam people.
(39:16):
A really good friend of mine recently had someone she
was getting catfished, and the person said, like you said, Sam,
they were in the military and deployed and wanted to
date and had taken someone else's not just their photo,
but assumed part of their identity so much as to
even get their work addressed, like where they were, and
then created all these stories. And she kept pressing and
(39:39):
pressing and pressing, and thankfully she comes. She was like, Chase,
I think I'm being catfished. And I was like, wait
a minute, let me get my laptop. People are really terrible,
you know. I'm just gonna say, people trash. People tell
you get over it and it but it's truly, this
is trauma. Whether you think it's just just a side
(40:01):
part of my life. And yeah they didn't maybe still
a credit card and wipe out a bank account, but
it's just as manipulative and ATSD Listen to listen to
the doctor said, people are trash, right, some people can trash. Right.
She at least she ain't carrying it to everybody qualifier
on there this time, but she right energy too. I like,
(40:23):
I meant, well, let's talk about that. Listen. How has
your scam experience and we know it's been a significant
number of years, but how has it affected your life
since and what lessons or traumas do you think you
carry with you still? Are you even triggered when people
ask you for money? Man, don't ask me. Don't ask
(40:44):
me for a quarter. Don't ask me for a quarters.
But I had that point, don't ask me for nothing,
because literally, even right after that, the next person was
similar to the person was simular. They were great on paper.
But then I still, man, I started to see that.
I was like, I thought he was secretly on drugs
(41:06):
or something. I ain't gonna lie because we should have
had money. How do you need me to help you
by gas? And it's just like you look great on paper.
You got this high profile job, I'm telling you, pure
profile picture. Friends, I thought the next guy was secretly
on drugs because I'm like, how you just need like
little pieces of stuff. So I was like, you know what,
We're gonna did this right now, because what I'm not
(41:26):
gonna do is keep being nickel and dimed for my kindness.
Let's make sure I got this right. The person right
after the next person, right after the scammer. H yep,
why these people even dating? That's the first thing. So yeah, right,
and again on paper, the title that person held and
(41:47):
they had like two jobs. I'm like, yo, what is
going on? Because ain't no way. I'm like, do I
look like vic? Okay? Okay, So now you did start
to question your selection choices, your judgment. Did you start
to wonder, lay a second here, what what the heck
is going on? I am too kind? Important? Right? That
(42:12):
made me look like a sugar mama because I'm not
like flashy. I'm not like, I'm not a flashy person.
I'm not a boasty person or anything like that. But
it's like, what do people see that? It's just like,
it comes back to what I said earlier. Kind and trusting,
That's what it is. Yeah, they see that in you,
and that opens the gates for them to take right.
(42:36):
And it's a shame because it's such a it's such
lovely qualities to have, but it goes against you. Really,
it's terrible, doesn't it? Just say it is? We just
have to pay attention drs he again, your story is
gonna change some lives out here. Your story. First of all,
before you go, I want to tell you how much
(42:57):
I really appreciate you sharing your story because for you
to have never told another soul or group of people
or share this with your family, and to come to
us and be at our virtual red table to share
this and your experience so that you can be a
help to others is a total gift. So thank you
(43:18):
so much for that. It is difficult for you. It's
difficult to share that truth, and so I appreciate you
being vulnerable enough to to open yourself up and let
us ask you questions. And Sam, you are on a mission,
and thank you for being a safeguard and a gatekeeper
for people to maintain their safety and their funds from
(43:42):
not just being heartbroken, but being cleaned out as well.
So thank you, Sam. If you could leave us and
our listeners with one final takeaway about avoiding scams, what
would it be. Trust your instinct, don't ignore it. If
it doesn't feel right, something is not and question it
and explore it. And don't give money. If someone's asking
(44:06):
you for money, reverse it and think to yourself, if
I need money, is this the person I would go to?
And at the time the answer would be no, that's good.
That's good. Trust your and stints. Don't give money. Don't
give money, no money. We could talk, I could literally
talk to y'all going to know more and more and more,
(44:29):
and Sam, I'm absolutely fascinating the company with the rogue Daters.
I think you're getting ready because you're probably gonna see
an influx of people contact you because it's better than
the cheats. That's always a big fear. You just don't
want that thing to roll up, you man. So yeah,
I'm here. Thank you so much for joining us. You've
(44:49):
been fantastic hosts and here you've been so brave and
I can guarantee you will make a big difference to
lots of people. Yes, thank you, so your fa I agree, Sam,
thank you both so much for coming to the Virtual
Red Table. We appreciate you both. We're going to take
a short break right now, and when we return, we'll
share our top five takeaways from this episode. I learned
(45:19):
a lot during this episode and from our guests, but
now it's time to share our thoughts. So possessing Cara
and Tracy's top five thoughts. I love this. This is
the part of the show where we speed through the
top five thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Cara, I'm
gonna go in and fire them all. So number five,
(45:40):
we have trust, confusion, urgency. These are the pillars of
a scam to watch out four, So watch out for them.
Number four. When you receive a strange message, go to
the sources. Absolutely, do not believe these people because they
will allow you to think it's legit. Because why they're liars,
(46:04):
Because they're liars. Listen, that's the quart of the week.
It's just the honesty for me. The next one, number three,
don't click on a link if you don't know where
it'll take you. That's me, that's me. I will reply
to a friend in a minute where you get this
link from, and it's probably got them anyway, It's probably
not them anyway. That's the part. Number two. You creative
(46:27):
passwords and change them often. Last, but not least, our
number one moment. Trust your instincts. Trust what's happening on
the inside. If something doesn't feel right, if it feels
a little fishy, that goud knows it might be wrong. Facts.
We want to know how you're feeling about this new
(46:48):
season of Red Table Talk. We're open to talk about
anything with you all, so sending your questions at less
red tables that at red table talk dot com, or
send us a voice mess as speak pip dot com.
Slash Let's Red Table That's and maybe you'll be featured
on a future episode. We'd love to hear from you
(47:09):
on that. Thank you so much for listening, and make
sure you subscribe on iHeart Radio app, and please rate
this podcast on Apple Podcast. We want a five. By
the way, rate us a five. We'll be back next
week for another episode of Let's Red Table That. A
big thank you to our executive producers Jada Pinkett Smith,
Ellen Racketson and Balon Jethrow. And thank you to our
(47:32):
producer Kyla Kneu and our associate producer y Lambda Chow.
And finally, thank you to our sound engineers Calvin Baila
and Devin Donnaheet. Hey, Let's hey, Let's red Table that. Hey,
that's a jingle for me.
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