December 3, 2024 • 38 mins
A staggering 98% of Gen Z professionals have battled burnout symptoms. You might ignore those symptoms to prove you’re a hard worker. But pushing yourself to the max takes a toll on your physical and mental health, and your wellbeing comes first. In this episode, Gianna and Jamé talk about how to recognize symptoms of burnout and how to get the support you need to recover.
Do you have any burning questions about work? We want to hear them! You can email us your questions at letstalkoffline@linkedin.com.
For more, follow Gianna (http://linkedin.com/in/giannaprudente) and Jamé (http://linkedin.com/in/jamejackson) on LinkedIn and subscribe to Gianna’s weekly newsletter: https://linkedin.com/letstalkoffline.
To learn more about FMLA and taking mental health days off: https://www.dol.gov/general/mental-health-at-work
Credits
Gianna Prudente - Co-host, Early Career Development Editor, LinkedIn
Jamé Jackson - Co-host, Community Manager, LinkedIn
Sabrina Fang - Producer, Western Sound
Maya Pope-Chappell - Director of Content & Audience Development, LinkedIn
Jessi Hempel - Chief Content Officer, LinkedIn
Savannah Wright - Senior Producer, Western Sound
Sarah Dealy - Associate Producer, Western Sound
Alex MacInnis - Engineer, Western Sound
Courtney Coupe - Head of Original Programming, LinkedIn
Dan Roth - Editor in Chief, LinkedIn
Ben Adair - Executive Producer, Western Sound
Katrina Norvell - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
Nikke Ettore - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Now, the thing about burnout is it sneaks up on you.
I remember I was in a job. I was having
chest pains and so I went to the doctor and
I was like, I'm having these heart palpitations.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Am I having like a heart attack? Mind you? I'm
like the twenty five years old the job. I'm like,
what's happening? Is it now? Is now my time?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And two are like and he was like, no, You're
not having a heart attack. But we went down this
checklist and he said, I think you are exhibiting like
early signs of burnout.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts. This is Let's
Talk offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or a sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm Gianna Prudenti and I'm Jamaie Jackson Kadsten. So when
you're early in your career, you are hustle in. I mean,
you might give me all of the assignments you want
me to do that presentation. Sure, you want me to
come into work early. Absolute Utely, you're saying yes to
everything because honestly, you're trying to prove to others, maybe
even to yourself, that you can do the job.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But what can that lead to? Yeah, you guessed it, burnout.
It's true.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've been there, and so have many other gen Zers.
Get this. Ninety eight percent of gen Z workers have
battled burnout symptoms.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Wow, I know that means it feels like you're running
on empty, but you keep pushing yourself to the max
and stressing yourself out, all at the expense of your
mental health. Well, we're here to tell you that it
doesn't have to be that way, and we're going to
help you prevent burnout before it's too late.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
There's different types of burnouts. There's levels to this.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, so it's for today's conversation, we are specifically talking
about work burnout. So when it comes to work burnout,
that is the feeling of things like stress and exhaustion
when you think or do anything related to your job.
I mean you are feeling drained, you're feeling unmotivated. You
could also be feeling worn out physically, but I think
(02:09):
this also comes down to your emotional and mental state
as well. And unfortunately, the thing about burnout is if
you're not careful. It also can affect your job performance.
So there are a number of things that can contribute
to job burnout. I mean, so, just thinking off the
top of my head, it's things like having a lack
of control. I see this a lot, particularly when you
have things like layoffs or like workforces are impacted. You
(02:30):
feel like you're out of control and you want to
just grasp it and you don't have it having too
much or even.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Too little to do. Now.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Look, I love this one, gee, because we always talk
about being overworked, but underwork can also add to burnout too,
because you start wondering, am I doing enough? Am I
feeling fulfilled? Am I walking in my life's purpose?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Babe? You're twenty one? Okay? Are you relaxed? These are
the questions that we're thinking about. Yeah, I know, I know.
It keeps us up at night.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Obviously, office conflict, right, you know, we had a whole
episode on work friendships, right, But what happens when that
friendship goes sour? Or what happens when that little booth
thing and the other department and yeah, y'all break up
and now you're grieving and you see them eating chicken
in the cafeteria with somebody else.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Who are you? Sorry? That sounds very personal.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sorry anyway's not speaking from personal experience.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Crashing out whatsoever. A lack of support.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We talked about this a lot, particularly around managers and
co workers. Lack of support can just make you feel
like you're in an unsafe environment. But another one that
I think is so important here is personal life issues.
I feel this one deeply because your personal life can't
affect your work life. I know people like to separate,
and to some degree there should be a separation of
(03:47):
church and state. But the truth of the matter is
you're human and what's happening out there is bound to
also come a little bit into your office settings.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
They bleed in.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, so you're feeling some sort of way, but you
kind of ignore those feelings because maybe you don't know
what it is, and you really want to prove yourself,
whether you're like starting a new job or early in
your career, so you're really willing to kind of put
your mental health aside and just like keep pushing forward,
and then that comes at a cost, right, So I
(04:17):
think what's important with burnout is if you're starting to
feel those symptoms that Jamay was explaining, you have to
ask yourself a few questions to kind of diagnose yourself.
And these are some questions that Mayo Clinics suggests asking. So, first,
do you question the value of your work? Do you
drag yourself to work and have trouble getting started? Do
(04:37):
you feel removed from work and the people you work with?
Do you feel a little satisfaction from the work you
get done? Do you doubt your skills and abilities? Do
you feel let down by your job? Are you experiencing
physical ailments like frequent headaches, stomach issues, trouble sleeping with
no known cause. If you're answering yes to a lot
of these questions, that's likely a sign that you are
(05:00):
experiencing burnout.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I like that there are questions that we can all
sort of ask ourselves at least to start the conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So, gee, what's been your experience with burnout?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I experienced burnout maybe a year or so ago. I
feel like it kind of was this perfect storm between
things in my personal life and work life, and I
remember just feeling like just numbed out, like I was
super unmotivated. We work in a very creation heavy role,
and I was just not feeling creative whatsoever. Like the
(05:33):
idea of having to put words down on paper was
this exhausting task for me, and I just felt super drained.
I really had no energy even for social interactions in
or out of work. I wanted to like kind of
just like be by myself. I didn't have like the
mental capacity to take anything in. You know, everything that
I was good at is now such a struggle. And
(05:56):
then I started having conversations with one colleague, one of
my work for friends, and she really helped me kind
of work through it because it was the first time
I had experienced something like that, and when it's related
to your job, all of a sudden, I was like,
oh no, Like I was always a very like driven person,
always ambitious, like high functioning anxiety work, you know, like
(06:16):
a lot of I think some of my success at
work is just being like the type a anxious person
that I am, And suddenly I just wasn't that person anymore.
Like I was in this very self driven role, but
I could not get myself to get my work done,
and if I did, it was like blah, yeah and yeah.
It definitely took me a while to like work through
it because I didn't really know how to get out
(06:39):
of that funk.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was definitely like a WHOA moment for me.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I'm so thankful that you were able to have someone
who you could talk to because to your point, when
you do make work part of your identity and in
some way by being that person you know people can
depend on or doing good work, it feels very personal.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
When you can't do that, it was scary.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I was like, okay, am I not able to do
my job all of a sudden, like what happened? Yeah,
And it's not like the cure for burnout is something
that happens overnight, and it can really feel like isolating
and you're like, I don't want to you know, you're
nervous to ask for help or to vocalize that because
you want to be seen as somebody who can get
the job done and be a high performer, especially if
that's a reputation you've built for yourself and now something's changed.
(07:22):
But like you were saying, your personal life really bleeds
into work. It's not something that you can always you know,
perfectly separate and have boundaries around. So you know, undoubtedly
it's something that many people probably will experience throughout their career. Yeah,
is it something you've experienced before?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Oh yeah, I am similar to you.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I had a really really bad burnout session like last year,
like to the point where I should I know what
was together, but I stopped creating altogether. And as someone
who people would say, I love your personal brand, I
love that you create, all of a sudden, it felt
like overnight, I just I walked away from everything. I
(08:02):
stopped posting on social media, I stopped creating content from
my website. I even stopped doing speaking events. And it's
like the cyclical thing because there was so much happening
in my personal life. My mother in law was really,
really sick. My husband was her caretaker, so I became
her caretaker and in a sense, and then she passed,
(08:24):
and it was such a moment of just like trying
to process grief, but like life goes on and you
had to keep going, and then there were transitions, and
so there were also like all of these things happening inside.
I had out so many pile ups, and you know,
one of the things that I think about a lot
is I had just also started to just let myself
(08:46):
go the girl who people say, oh, she dresses nice,
so she always looks. I had just stopped caring about
my appearance. And I think the sad thing is it's
like you want to yell into the void, help, help,
but then you're also like, but who cares?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And you feel that way? Is this solution? What is
the solution? Now?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
What's interesting though, And you know, the things you love
are the things that you find ways to talk about.
I'll never forget. There was an instance where I had
gotten an opportunity as an influencer to promote a movie,
and so they invited me to the movie premiere and
so I got really excited. I got dressed up that night,
we went, and I walked away from that night being like,
(09:29):
this is what I need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I need to be getting back into acting.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Like there's just something about getting back into something that
you absolutely love. And then that's when I started to
enroll in the classes and it healed me, It really did.
Now it's taken what a year plus for me to
finally be at a point where I'm creating content again.
I'm getting myself out there. But I would be lying
if I said that sometimes I approach the things that
(09:54):
I love with caution because I don't want them to
burn me out again. You get scarred, and you expect
when you are Anyone who has ever dealt, particularly with
depression knows you get into those spells and when you
are out, you are so thankful, but you're like, please, God,
don't let me get there again. And I think burnout
is one of those things.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The thing about burnout is it sneaks up on you.
I remember I was in a job. I was having
chest pains, and so I went to the doctor and
I was like, I'm having these heart palpitations.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Am I having like a heart attack? Mine?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I'm like a twenty five the job. I'm like, what's happening?
Is it now?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Is now my time? And you are like and he
was like, no, You're not having a heart attack. But
you know, he asked me very similar questions to what
you mentioned earlier. We went down this checklist, and he said,
I think you are exhibiting like early signs of burnout.
I was overworking myself. I was not giving myself a
work life balance. I wasn't setting boundaries a lot of things.
(10:50):
Giann and I have been talking.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
To you all about all about the boundary and all
circles back to boundaries.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But it really was I think with some of the
this also goes back to millennials particularly we come from
like grind culture, right, like hustle culture, muscle culture. Yeah,
like nobody cares if you're tired, Like, if you're tired,
that means you're right exactly. Yeah, And so I had
to sort of unlearn and I honestly it was kind
(11:17):
of post pandemic that I learned this about slowing down
and taking the time to advocate for myself and set boundaries.
And it really has been over the last year and
a half where I've said I have to go even
a step further to make sure that I prevent the
burnout in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I just want to give a quick shout out to
the amazing millennial woman in my life, including you, because
I feel like it's unfortunate to say that. I feel
like you guys experience that and now because of that,
you're like protecting us from that. So I feel like
a lot of informal mentors I have in my life
have said, you know, like I've been there, here's what
you like I want you to do to stop yourself
(11:53):
from getting to that point, or like get yourself out
of it when you are, because this is just not
not good.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It's worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think that what's so important is that you have
to remember, at least I like to think of it
as this, that everything is working out for you, like
everything is. And so if you really believe that, Like
on the surface level, we could say, oh, it's working
out for me, But if you're still allowing things to
stress you out, if you're still staying in toxic environments,
if you're still not pursuing the things that you're passionate about.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Do you really believe it?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
If you really believe that things are working out for you,
that also means I don't have to stress out on
this job because I'm still going to get where I
need to get to, yeah, and wherever I need to
get to. You know, if you already think of everything
as ordained steps for you, you will be okay.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Easier so than benders.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I know, literally, we know how hard it can be
to put yourself first, especially when it comes to work.
But after the break, we're going to talk about ways
to tackle burnout and also get ahead of the problem.
(13:06):
All right, we're back talking about dealing with burnout at work.
Something I've been really trying to work on over the
last few years is putting my mental health first. And
that seems like, Okay, yeah, great, obviously you should be
doing that, but it is really hard when you're balancing
your job with your personal life and you know, you
(13:28):
want your performance to be great and you want to
do good at your job, and sometimes you sacrifice your
mental health for that. But we are here to tell
you that you got to put your mental health first
and because having that mindset is really going to help
you kind of get ahead of the problem when it
comes to burnout and learn. If you're going to learn
anything from me, it's you know, not to just go
on overdrive and ignore it until you crash.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Just think about it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do you really want the thing that you want if
you can't even enjoy it because you mentally aren't even there.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, and then you get to it and you're like, Okay,
I was just like kind of black out the whole
journey to get here because I was just unwell, right, Yeah, Okay,
So like Jamay and I were saying before, I mean,
all of this really does come back to setting boundaries
around your job. And we did a whole episode about
how to set work boundaries a few months ago, so
we're not going to spend too much time talking about it,
(14:17):
but the TLDR is that setting those work boundaries is
going to be the first step to preventing burnout. So
check out that work boundaries episode if you haven't already.
Listen the other thing, and you kind of mentioned this
before when you talked about getting back into acting. When
you bring things into your life that give you joy,
it rejuvenates you. So really invest in your hobbies. I
(14:40):
think when I was dealing with burnout, my whole life
was work. I had nothing outside that was really an
outlet for me. Yeah, and you know this really gets me.
Everyone's always like, well do you work out? Like yes,
I wish I was the girlie who was working out
for mental health like that, ain't me, Like, I'm working
out because I need to with them, not as much
as a release as I wish.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It was the fact that some people do this for
fun runners high. It ain't real for me. It's not
high for me. It's not I'm on the ground, my
tang I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
But you have to remember that You're more than your job, right,
It's not your whole life. So you have to make
time outside of work for your hobbies and passions and
make sure that you're investing in those interests. And that
can really reduce the stress on the job. So yeah,
exercise is like one of them. If that's your release, great,
But doing things that just bring you joy. For me,
(15:33):
it's cooking a great meal. There's nothing I love more
than like coming home from a long day. Everyone stay
out of the kitchen like it's just me. I don't
need a sous chev Okay, I want to just sit there.
I want to chop. I want to chop all night.
I want to listen to the music. And I'm decompressing.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
See. But you know what I love.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I love that you mentioned hobbies that don't even have
anything to do with work, because I think sometimes people
swap work for work and oh my god, and I
don't think you should do that, particularly if you're trying
to fight burnout. I think another thing that's really important
here is that you should seek support. Now, I think
that support can also happen internally here, so you can
(16:12):
also talk to your manager, you can talk to co workers,
particularly with the manager. Let me focus on that one first.
I think that you can have an honest conversation with
them about how you're feeling, come with solutions right also,
and like kind of give them a lay of the land.
I have done this before with managers of mine, where
I have said, like, I am really stressed out based
(16:33):
upon my workload. Can you just help me review everything
that I have and help me prioritize, like what is
the most important versus least? And one thing that I
have found is that by giving them that access, they're able.
A good manager is good to identify, Okay, here's what
I can take off of your plate, or what you
can outsource to somebody else. And then they're also going
to help you figure out because if you're like me,
(16:55):
you think everything is a level ten priority and it's not. Yeah,
and that also adds to the stress, which then also
leads to burnout. Your co workers are also people you
lean on, right, Like the idea of like being able
to talk to someone like you did right or like
I do sometimes like you need that. And then also
obviously external friendships and so the people outside of your
job are gonna help remind you that this is not
(17:16):
your whole life, right, yes, because you know what, they're
gonna be sick of it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They're gonna be like, I'm tired of you. My roommate's like,
I'm done with this same thing. You keep talking, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
She's gonna be like, of course you're burned out. You're
working twelve hour days. Let's go to halfy hour. But
like you need that, and then like you'd be like,
oh wow, this thing that I thought was this huge
thing in my life really is a lot smaller.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So you got to get outside. You have to have support.
Another thing.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's also not a bad idea to consider taking breaks.
Oh yeah, when it comes to breaks, there's a couple
of different breaks that I need. The first break is
literally taking a break, go outside during your lunch break, okay,
or stop working while you eat. I'm guilty, much so guilty,
(18:01):
but like, seriously, give yourself a few minutes every day
to just ground yourself. I have to force myself to
go get coffee, or to get outside to get some
fresh air, or even just the walk to and from
the you know, the train stations. Those little things allow
you to get some more mental clarity and to just breathe, right,
because sometimes we're not breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Okay, I've never breathing. I've never I just tried to
shout this in therapy. I'm always holding my breath.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, no, not good, not good.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But you definitely should just figure out ways to take breaks.
Now obviously those are the smaller ones, right, and then
goes back to boundaries, knowing when you're gonna clock in,
when you're gonna clock out, giving your weekends to yourself.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Can I just say something.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Some people actually add calendar holds on their calendars to
remind themselves to break. And that's something that I want
to start doing too, because you can literally power through
the day and I'd be like, oh.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Guilty, Yeah that is me.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I got a top and that was it. Like that's
something I've learned from you. Because if you don't put
that hold, people will block.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It, I guess. But even when you have the whole
people will still oh, double book you. I'd be double tripple.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
You gotta set that soundary and you gotta enforce it.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I don't like it, am I Mariah Carey. Everyone just
want a piece that's the same meaning. But aside of those,
like also another type of break that is important.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Here are like longer breaks.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Okay, So here's the thing, guys, burnout is not the
same as just like a stressful day in the office,
which is why you have to be very thoughtful and
intentional when you ask yourself these questions of how you're feeling,
keeping a diary or a log of how long this
has been going on, and if you can being able
to talk to people, and you know, gauge like, okay,
(19:44):
is this kind of becoming a bigger thing. I say
this because burnout is not something you solve over one weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Staying in burnout is.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
A long term thing, so you have to come up
with a long term strategy. What breaks can hopefully do
is if you have the opportunity to take PTO or
discretionary time off or whatever. If you can take time
off short, use that. But if you cannot, you need
to also start looking into resources that might allow you
to take additional days for mental health or even being
(20:18):
able to take longer spans of time. Now we'll have
it down in the show description more resources for you all.
But I do know that there are also mental health
resources that are offered by FMLA, so this can also
give you weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Of time off. What's Family Medical Leave Act. I haven't
heard of that you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Have access to it, and it's really great. I mean
a lot of people know FMLA for things like maternity
or paternity care. Also if you're out on medical leave.
But let me tell you this, the same way you
care when you have a medical procedure and you need
time off work, you got to take the same care
for your mind. Okay, So definitely make sure you check
out the resources and the show description. Guys, we will
(20:57):
have them out there because I don't want to misquote anything.
But the point is, do your research. Know that it
is okay to take small breaks, but if you are
actually getting to the point of burnout that you are
now like, okay, this is impacting my life, it is
okay to look into resources to give you longer breaks
of time. You should be medically and legally protected.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Before you mentioned seeking support from your manager, and you
were sharing how you've gone about that in the past,
and I want to talk more about that, and that
brings us to our listener question. So this is our
segment Dear Work Bestie, where we bring in questions from
our listeners. This week's comes from Ben in Washington.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Lately, there's been a lot going on at working in
my personal life. I'm not feeling as motivated as I
usually am about my job. I'm starting to feel kind
of overwhelmed. How do I tell my manager how feeling
without making them feel like I'm incapable of doing my job?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So if you guys listen to our Boundaries episode, you
will realize I've already cried at work, like I have
got to the point where I'm crying in my cubicle
to my manager. But of course I'm okay, thank you
to a trauma.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I love you though you know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I laugh now, I laugh now, but you know there
are steps you can take to prevent that from happening. So,
similar to Bin, I was feeling overwhelmed and scared that
my performance was slipping. So I wanted to have that
conversation with my manager. And I think if you're you
have a good manager, they don't want you to fail
(22:31):
if you feel like you have a trusted relationship with
that person, right And I think it's going into that conversation,
like you were saying before, being open and just saying
I'm feeling overwhelmed right now, and here's what's on my plate,
And you can literally say I don't want the quality
of my work to slip. I know I can do
a good job, but I feel like I'm going to
(22:53):
get to the point where I'm unable to maintain the
quality of my work because of how I'm feeling. And
so yeah, I think vulnerable really wins here. But of
course not everyone has that relationship with their manager. But
I do think I think you can kind of come
in with the problem solution approach of saying like, hey,
here's what you know I think I can be doing
(23:14):
to kind of like lessen this overwhelm what do you
think about this? Right? And I think your manager will
be like, oh, okay, great or no, actually, why don't we
try this? But you kind of need to bring them
in as a partner either way to kind of figure
out the solution forward.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I love that a lot, because, like we talked about earlier,
your manager can help you prioritize. When I was thinking
about what Ben was saying, I was like, I think
it's also important to ask yourself, like, what is taking
the toll right, because if it's one of those bigger
projects figuring out maybe are there other coworkers you can
bring on who you can partner with and having that.
(23:51):
But it's if it's the small, like little things figuring
out how to delegate. For me, I find that, like
it's the small tasks that usually me out because my
brain is like in strategy docs all day or working
on big projects. So that allowed me to also figure out, Okay,
I can now block off time on my calendar to
go towards answering emails.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I love that you said first like figure out what
is you know, what are your main stressors, and then
also like ask your manager to help you prioritize, and also,
like I guess, speaking from my personal experience, like if
it is stuff in your personal life, you know, a
good manager understands that you are a whole human and
you have life outside the office. You know, you don't
(24:36):
have to tell everyone exactly the full story, right.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I think if the you.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Know, pandemic taught anybody anything, it's like, we have life
outside of the office, and you need to account for that.
And that's why you know, prioritizing mental health is so important.
And remember that you were hired for a reason. Your
manager isn't going to say Oh wow, you're incapable of
doing your job now because you just told me this
vulnerable thing about yourself. I do think people respect that,
(25:02):
but when you're starting out, you feel like, oh, that
vulnerability is something I can't show because I'm proving myself.
Where if you have a good manager, that's something that
they're going to, you know, be proud of you for
doing and help you kind of problem solved.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, but I mean to your point, you are proving yourself.
You're proving that you can take ownership, You're proving that
you are coming with a solution oriented mindset. You're proving
that I want to succeed in this job. I just
need a little help because it's like this. Everyone is
going to suffer grief at some point in their life.
Everyone is going to suffer something. You know, We've talked
about layoffs, We've talked about you know, being impacted by
(25:35):
different things that are happening industries. So many themes and
topics that we've talked about on this podcast are things
that are going to touch people at some point or another.
So it would naturally benefit your employer to understand that
you are a person and that these things are going
to affect you in a different way, like what affects
G is going to affect me in a different way
(25:56):
because of life circumstances. That is where you create that partnership.
But I just want to also say that if you
are experiencing continued burnout, take it from the girl who
literally has had to go to the hospital about this
hair was falling out.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I was not cute.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It was not cute. I wasn't eating or I was overeating.
I was doing a lot. It was a whole lot
of everything. If you are realizing that you are in
this continued burnout stage, it really might be time for
you to consider walking away. You are no lesser of
a person if you decide you have to do that.
In fact, I commend you for being able to prioritize
your mental health. Now obviously I get it. It's much
(26:36):
easier said than done here and I know, like you
can look out and you can see the industry, you
can see the economy, and you're nervous to take that leap.
And I also understand that not everyone has the privilege
of just being able to leave their job. But if
you are not getting the support that you need, if
you have listened to this entire episode. You have noted
a lot of things that you see in yourself. If
you've had these conversations with your manager, if you've had
(26:58):
these conversations with HI, if you work in an environment
that does not respect your boundaries, it really might be
time for you to start thinking about that exit plan.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And I just want to add one last thing is
don't be afraid to seek the help of a mental
health professional. You know, I've been in therapy for I
think most of my life and it's definitely helped me
create those boundaries around work and personal life. That has
helped kind of prevent the burnout. And then when I
was in that period because of a lot of it
(27:28):
was due to my personal life. I mean, therapy you know,
saved me in that time. So definitely consider seeking support
if you have the resources and the means to do so. Yeah,
and also see if you know your employer has a
mental health benefit and maybe they work with a therapy provider.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah. I love that you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
One thing that I was thinking of is that sometimes
your friends, your family, your loved ones could also be
the same ones who gaslight you, which.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Is why you have to have wise counseled a third
party of.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It you do like and they may not mean anything
negative by it. But you know, your parents, who have
stayed in the same job for fifty years are not
gonna tell you that at the first sign of burnout.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
To me, I know, sometimes.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
My mom would be like, oh, just like just say
you can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I'm like, I I just put on a nice outfit
as a makeup.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
When you look good, you feel good. I'm like, now
what I'm burned out? Mommy. No, they do, they do,
they do.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
But but to your point, I mean, the mental health
professional will be able to give you an objective viewpoint
of your situation, which is always nice to have so
you feel safe and supported. I mean, honestly, I think
that's always a great person to bounce ideas off of,
because otherwise, girl, you're gonna be asking yourself, am I crazy?
I mean, they're honestly there to help you navigate those thoughts,
(28:46):
So shout out to them. Okay, everyone, let's all take
a collective deep breath.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That was great, right, I know that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
An overcoming burnout doesn't happen overnight, but we hope that
after this combo, you start taking the first steps towards
addressing that burnout coming up? Have you ever talked about
your salary with your coworkers?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Is it still taboo? That's next?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
All right, Tom, you dropped so many gems you too,
like usual. Something I'm taking away from our conversation that
you said is the break's part of this, right. I
really appreciate how protective you are of your time and
how you don't only set your boundaries, you enforce them
and you have agency over your time. That's something that
(29:51):
I want to get better with. So my action item
for today is, like, I'm set. I'm going to put
some calendar holds on to break girl and maybe set
some reminder to breathe because my therapist had to do
that and I haven't even need to breathe.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
You need to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, but it's okay. My voice teacher tells me all
the time. You need to breathe.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
How we like it might take breaks and breathes like,
but seriously, but you have to remind yourself sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Sometimes the small things are really the most effective, and
they're the things that will give you the biggest benefit.
You just don't even realize it. I think one thing
that's been important that you actually mentioned is just the
importance of hobbies. Now, this is something that has been
a game changer for me this year, as I've been
getting into things that I even took like a pottery class.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
A couple of times. Terrible.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Wait, can I say something, I also wanted to take
pottery classes.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Why is it so expensive? Nobody talks about how expensive
hobbies can be. It's so expensive. Stick to cooking.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I know, right, literally, it's so expensive. But I do
think that there's such a fun thing about just trying
out hobbies, trying new things that you've never experienced before.
Sometimes they even show you things that you would want
to do. We have a whole episode on side hustles,
turning them into your full nine to five or so.
I think like there's just so much that you can
do and decentering work. Decentering something doesn't make it less important.
(31:10):
It just means that you're not fixated on it and
you have to govern your own agency.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
In that say it again.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So I really hope that you guys are taking some
of these tips away. But before you head out, another
tip of the week, cringe, go Gianna.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
We have cringe. Are cool? It's our favorite, well my
favorite segment, I don't know. Is it your favorite? I
think so? Okay, I think it's fun.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Right, Well, we get to discuss all things workplace culture,
in the trends, and we're determining whether they are cool
or cringe.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
That almost rhymed? I think maybe in my head, Gianna, whatever.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What are we talking about this week?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Okay, we're talking about discussing your salary with your coworkers.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
How much do you make? What do you feel? How
do I feel? Yeah, let me take a sip of profit?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Question?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What a crazy question? How do you feel drying?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So I think I come at this topic in a
very particular way because as someone who was a freelancer,
like a freelance journalist for a number of years in
her career, the only way I knew how to get
paid was by asking my community, well, what were you
getting paid? Yeah, and that was still very taboo then, right,
but you would quickly learn, oh, the same editor that's
(32:31):
giving you seventy five bucks for a story is paying
someone else to seventy five. And so I have always
been a person who's like, I can ask if you
feel comfortable sharing feel you know, share If you don't,
that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I also think that having.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Paid transparency and salari transparency allows you to know whether
you are being played or not. Even in corporate facilities. Now,
there are some companies that make sure from an equitable
standpoint that people are being compensated fairly, but there are
a lot of companies that just don't do that.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
So the only way you are going to know if
you are being low balled or like if you're not
actually advancing as quickly as your peers is just by
having those conversations. But again, it doesn't bother me at all.
I just always say, like, if you ask, be careful
for what you ask, because you might find out. You
might find out that you getting played, and then I
think people get a lot upset.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
What do you think.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I love that you said that, because I think if
you're asking, you got to prepare to either be like
pleasantly surprised that you're earning more or hurt that you're
earning less, and that can definitely impact the way you
view your colleague. So you just need to be aware
of that going in. But I remember in our negotiation episode,
you said you found out you were being underpaid in
(33:45):
one of your early jobs because you spoke to one
of your guy colleagues, right.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yep, I found out I was getting paid like twenty
thousand dollars less than him, and it was wild because
we were doing the same type of work. But you
know what I think is important because you said this,
and it's like it had nothing new to him, right,
And I think we take it personal all of a sudden.
If I found out Gianna was making like three times myself,
I would be like.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Gianna, but if podcast over, But it's like, it has
nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I have so many details you could have negotiated that
you might actually have experience that I don't know of
that's reflected on that resume. There's there's so many factors here, right, Like,
so the number is just a number on paper, But
I do think that it is a number that you
can use to inform your strategy moving forward.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Okay, I agree with you. I think there's a lot
of value in having transparent conversations with your I will
say work friends, because they need to be trusted.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Colleagues, very trusted.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yes, we're not just throwing this around like a Friday night, No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I honestly remember at one point, like a few of
us like gathered in a conference room and we were
like we talked about it because you know, when it
comes to promotions, when it comes to raises, you don't
know what you don't know, correct, And like you were saying,
sometimes pay transparency within a company isn't you know, super transparent.
(35:08):
So having those conversations with your colleagues can be really
informative when you think about like asking for a raise
and going after promotion. It didn't tarnish my view of
them whatsoever, but it just gave me information that I
had in the back of my head as context. And
now listen, I wasn't going into any negotiations saying well
I know so and so is making X y Z
(35:28):
that part. No, Like listen, like that is not something
that you throw in somebody else's face. That's not used
as ammunition. It's like background research that you got to
keep in your head. Yes, and it's just all context.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
At the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Some things don't need to be said out loud, and like,
so if someone actually was open and vulnerable enough with
you to share that information, don't use it to don't, don't.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Don't organize them. Yeah, yeah, so I agree again, is
it cool or crazy?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think it's cool. It can get cringe if you
be chatting it up, you go about that.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, And if a friend tells you, you don't go
tell other people.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
No, that's just between you and a friend, like me,
Gianna and like one other person could be in a
room together.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
If Gianna tell me some information, I heard it.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
If the walls, if oh gosh, lord, what would happen?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Then well, we want to know from you all.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Are you all having conversations around salary with your coworkers, family, friends,
loved ones, strangers on the street.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Like how how open are we?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I want to know what's the level of open what's
the level of openness these days?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But in the meantime, thank you guys so much for
listening to another fun, slightly chaotic, but very action packed episode.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, we always end on the chaotic noise.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Always gotta go out strong.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Okay, Yeah, you guys can let us know your take
in the newsletter this week. Make sure you're following. It's
called Let's Talk offline, where we go even deeper into
the topics we discuss on the podcast. The link is
in the show to description and in my LinkedIn bio
this week, let us know in the comments or share
a post on LinkedIn and tag Jamay and I about
your take on cool Cringe. We want to chat with
all of our work besties.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes now.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Also, thank you Ben for sending in your question. We
loved answering it and we hope that it was valuable
for you you all. You all can also send us
your questions. Information on how to do that is in
the show description. Make sure you check out the show description.
There is a lot of resources that will be down there.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Also, make sure you guys rate and follow the show
so you get notified when new episodes get released. And
we would love to hear from you what you're taking
away from the show, how you're feeling about it. Let
us know, leave a review, let us know all right,
before you go, remember we've always got your back, So
something comes up. Let's Talk Offline. I'm Jianna Predenti.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay diving.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Etour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is Head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(38:28):
chief of LinkedIn
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Now, the thing about burnout is it sneaks up on you.
I remember I was in a job. I was having
chest pains and so I went to the doctor and
I was like, I'm having these heart palpitations.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Am I having like a heart attack? Mind you? I'm
like the twenty five years old the job. I'm like,
what's happening? Is it now? Is now my time?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And two are like and he was like, no, You're
not having a heart attack. But we went down this
checklist and he said, I think you are exhibiting like
early signs of burnout.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts. This is Let's
Talk offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or a sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm Gianna Prudenti and I'm Jamaie Jackson Kadsten. So when
you're early in your career, you are hustle in. I mean,
you might give me all of the assignments you want
me to do that presentation. Sure, you want me to
come into work early. Absolute Utely, you're saying yes to
everything because honestly, you're trying to prove to others, maybe
even to yourself, that you can do the job.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But what can that lead to? Yeah, you guessed it, burnout.
It's true.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've been there, and so have many other gen Zers.
Get this. Ninety eight percent of gen Z workers have
battled burnout symptoms.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Ninety eight ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Wow, I know that means it feels like you're running
on empty, but you keep pushing yourself to the max
and stressing yourself out, all at the expense of your
mental health. Well, we're here to tell you that it
doesn't have to be that way, and we're going to
help you prevent burnout before it's too late.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
There's different types of burnouts. There's levels to this.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, so it's for today's conversation, we are specifically talking
about work burnout. So when it comes to work burnout,
that is the feeling of things like stress and exhaustion
when you think or do anything related to your job.
I mean you are feeling drained, you're feeling unmotivated. You
could also be feeling worn out physically, but I think
(02:09):
this also comes down to your emotional and mental state
as well. And unfortunately, the thing about burnout is if
you're not careful. It also can affect your job performance.
So there are a number of things that can contribute
to job burnout. I mean, so, just thinking off the
top of my head, it's things like having a lack
of control. I see this a lot, particularly when you
have things like layoffs or like workforces are impacted. You
(02:30):
feel like you're out of control and you want to
just grasp it and you don't have it having too
much or even.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Too little to do. Now.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Look, I love this one, gee, because we always talk
about being overworked, but underwork can also add to burnout too,
because you start wondering, am I doing enough? Am I
feeling fulfilled? Am I walking in my life's purpose?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Babe? You're twenty one? Okay? Are you relaxed? These are
the questions that we're thinking about. Yeah, I know, I know.
It keeps us up at night.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Obviously, office conflict, right, you know, we had a whole
episode on work friendships, right, But what happens when that
friendship goes sour? Or what happens when that little booth
thing and the other department and yeah, y'all break up
and now you're grieving and you see them eating chicken
in the cafeteria with somebody else.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Who are you? Sorry? That sounds very personal.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sorry anyway's not speaking from personal experience.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Crashing out whatsoever. A lack of support.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We talked about this a lot, particularly around managers and
co workers. Lack of support can just make you feel
like you're in an unsafe environment. But another one that
I think is so important here is personal life issues.
I feel this one deeply because your personal life can't
affect your work life. I know people like to separate,
and to some degree there should be a separation of
(03:47):
church and state. But the truth of the matter is
you're human and what's happening out there is bound to
also come a little bit into your office settings.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
They bleed in.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, so you're feeling some sort of way, but you
kind of ignore those feelings because maybe you don't know
what it is, and you really want to prove yourself,
whether you're like starting a new job or early in
your career, so you're really willing to kind of put
your mental health aside and just like keep pushing forward,
and then that comes at a cost, right, So I
(04:17):
think what's important with burnout is if you're starting to
feel those symptoms that Jamay was explaining, you have to
ask yourself a few questions to kind of diagnose yourself.
And these are some questions that Mayo Clinics suggests asking. So, first,
do you question the value of your work? Do you
drag yourself to work and have trouble getting started? Do
(04:37):
you feel removed from work and the people you work with?
Do you feel a little satisfaction from the work you
get done? Do you doubt your skills and abilities? Do
you feel let down by your job? Are you experiencing
physical ailments like frequent headaches, stomach issues, trouble sleeping with
no known cause. If you're answering yes to a lot
of these questions, that's likely a sign that you are
(05:00):
experiencing burnout.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I like that there are questions that we can all
sort of ask ourselves at least to start the conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So, gee, what's been your experience with burnout?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I experienced burnout maybe a year or so ago. I
feel like it kind of was this perfect storm between
things in my personal life and work life, and I
remember just feeling like just numbed out, like I was
super unmotivated. We work in a very creation heavy role,
and I was just not feeling creative whatsoever. Like the
(05:33):
idea of having to put words down on paper was
this exhausting task for me, and I just felt super drained.
I really had no energy even for social interactions in
or out of work. I wanted to like kind of
just like be by myself. I didn't have like the
mental capacity to take anything in. You know, everything that
I was good at is now such a struggle. And
(05:56):
then I started having conversations with one colleague, one of
my work for friends, and she really helped me kind
of work through it because it was the first time
I had experienced something like that, and when it's related
to your job, all of a sudden, I was like,
oh no, Like I was always a very like driven person,
always ambitious, like high functioning anxiety work, you know, like
(06:16):
a lot of I think some of my success at
work is just being like the type a anxious person
that I am, And suddenly I just wasn't that person anymore.
Like I was in this very self driven role, but
I could not get myself to get my work done,
and if I did, it was like blah, yeah and yeah.
It definitely took me a while to like work through
it because I didn't really know how to get out
(06:39):
of that funk.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was definitely like a WHOA moment for me.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I'm so thankful that you were able to have someone
who you could talk to because to your point, when
you do make work part of your identity and in
some way by being that person you know people can
depend on or doing good work, it feels very personal.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
When you can't do that, it was scary.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I was like, okay, am I not able to do
my job all of a sudden, like what happened? Yeah,
And it's not like the cure for burnout is something
that happens overnight, and it can really feel like isolating
and you're like, I don't want to you know, you're
nervous to ask for help or to vocalize that because
you want to be seen as somebody who can get
the job done and be a high performer, especially if
that's a reputation you've built for yourself and now something's changed.
(07:22):
But like you were saying, your personal life really bleeds
into work. It's not something that you can always you know,
perfectly separate and have boundaries around. So you know, undoubtedly
it's something that many people probably will experience throughout their career. Yeah,
is it something you've experienced before?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Oh yeah, I am similar to you.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I had a really really bad burnout session like last year,
like to the point where I should I know what
was together, but I stopped creating altogether. And as someone
who people would say, I love your personal brand, I
love that you create, all of a sudden, it felt
like overnight, I just I walked away from everything. I
(08:02):
stopped posting on social media, I stopped creating content from
my website. I even stopped doing speaking events. And it's
like the cyclical thing because there was so much happening
in my personal life. My mother in law was really,
really sick. My husband was her caretaker, so I became
her caretaker and in a sense, and then she passed,
(08:24):
and it was such a moment of just like trying
to process grief, but like life goes on and you
had to keep going, and then there were transitions, and
so there were also like all of these things happening inside.
I had out so many pile ups, and you know,
one of the things that I think about a lot
is I had just also started to just let myself
(08:46):
go the girl who people say, oh, she dresses nice,
so she always looks. I had just stopped caring about
my appearance. And I think the sad thing is it's
like you want to yell into the void, help, help,
but then you're also like, but who cares?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And you feel that way? Is this solution? What is
the solution? Now?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
What's interesting though, And you know, the things you love
are the things that you find ways to talk about.
I'll never forget. There was an instance where I had
gotten an opportunity as an influencer to promote a movie,
and so they invited me to the movie premiere and
so I got really excited. I got dressed up that night,
we went, and I walked away from that night being like,
(09:29):
this is what I need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I need to be getting back into acting.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Like there's just something about getting back into something that
you absolutely love. And then that's when I started to
enroll in the classes and it healed me, It really did.
Now it's taken what a year plus for me to
finally be at a point where I'm creating content again.
I'm getting myself out there. But I would be lying
if I said that sometimes I approach the things that
(09:54):
I love with caution because I don't want them to
burn me out again. You get scarred, and you expect
when you are Anyone who has ever dealt, particularly with
depression knows you get into those spells and when you
are out, you are so thankful, but you're like, please, God,
don't let me get there again. And I think burnout
is one of those things.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The thing about burnout is it sneaks up on you.
I remember I was in a job. I was having
chest pains, and so I went to the doctor and
I was like, I'm having these heart palpitations.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Am I having like a heart attack? Mine?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I'm like a twenty five the job. I'm like, what's happening?
Is it now?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Is now my time? And you are like and he
was like, no, You're not having a heart attack. But
you know, he asked me very similar questions to what
you mentioned earlier. We went down this checklist, and he said,
I think you are exhibiting like early signs of burnout.
I was overworking myself. I was not giving myself a
work life balance. I wasn't setting boundaries a lot of things.
(10:50):
Giann and I have been talking.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
To you all about all about the boundary and all
circles back to boundaries.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But it really was I think with some of the
this also goes back to millennials particularly we come from
like grind culture, right, like hustle culture, muscle culture. Yeah,
like nobody cares if you're tired, Like, if you're tired,
that means you're right exactly. Yeah, And so I had
to sort of unlearn and I honestly it was kind
(11:17):
of post pandemic that I learned this about slowing down
and taking the time to advocate for myself and set boundaries.
And it really has been over the last year and
a half where I've said I have to go even
a step further to make sure that I prevent the
burnout in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I just want to give a quick shout out to
the amazing millennial woman in my life, including you, because
I feel like it's unfortunate to say that. I feel
like you guys experience that and now because of that,
you're like protecting us from that. So I feel like
a lot of informal mentors I have in my life
have said, you know, like I've been there, here's what
you like I want you to do to stop yourself
(11:53):
from getting to that point, or like get yourself out
of it when you are, because this is just not
not good.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It's worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think that what's so important is that you have
to remember, at least I like to think of it
as this, that everything is working out for you, like
everything is. And so if you really believe that, Like
on the surface level, we could say, oh, it's working
out for me, But if you're still allowing things to
stress you out, if you're still staying in toxic environments,
if you're still not pursuing the things that you're passionate about.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Do you really believe it?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
If you really believe that things are working out for you,
that also means I don't have to stress out on
this job because I'm still going to get where I
need to get to, yeah, and wherever I need to
get to. You know, if you already think of everything
as ordained steps for you, you will be okay.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Easier so than benders.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I know, literally, we know how hard it can be
to put yourself first, especially when it comes to work.
But after the break, we're going to talk about ways
to tackle burnout and also get ahead of the problem.
(13:06):
All right, we're back talking about dealing with burnout at work.
Something I've been really trying to work on over the
last few years is putting my mental health first. And
that seems like, Okay, yeah, great, obviously you should be
doing that, but it is really hard when you're balancing
your job with your personal life and you know, you
(13:28):
want your performance to be great and you want to
do good at your job, and sometimes you sacrifice your
mental health for that. But we are here to tell
you that you got to put your mental health first
and because having that mindset is really going to help
you kind of get ahead of the problem when it
comes to burnout and learn. If you're going to learn
anything from me, it's you know, not to just go
on overdrive and ignore it until you crash.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Just think about it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do you really want the thing that you want if
you can't even enjoy it because you mentally aren't even there.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, and then you get to it and you're like, Okay,
I was just like kind of black out the whole
journey to get here because I was just unwell, right, Yeah, Okay,
So like Jamay and I were saying before, I mean,
all of this really does come back to setting boundaries
around your job. And we did a whole episode about
how to set work boundaries a few months ago, so
we're not going to spend too much time talking about it,
(14:17):
but the TLDR is that setting those work boundaries is
going to be the first step to preventing burnout. So
check out that work boundaries episode if you haven't already.
Listen the other thing, and you kind of mentioned this
before when you talked about getting back into acting. When
you bring things into your life that give you joy,
it rejuvenates you. So really invest in your hobbies. I
(14:40):
think when I was dealing with burnout, my whole life
was work. I had nothing outside that was really an
outlet for me. Yeah, and you know this really gets me.
Everyone's always like, well do you work out? Like yes,
I wish I was the girlie who was working out
for mental health like that, ain't me, Like, I'm working
out because I need to with them, not as much
as a release as I wish.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It was the fact that some people do this for
fun runners high. It ain't real for me. It's not
high for me. It's not I'm on the ground, my
tang I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
But you have to remember that You're more than your job, right,
It's not your whole life. So you have to make
time outside of work for your hobbies and passions and
make sure that you're investing in those interests. And that
can really reduce the stress on the job. So yeah,
exercise is like one of them. If that's your release, great,
But doing things that just bring you joy. For me,
(15:33):
it's cooking a great meal. There's nothing I love more
than like coming home from a long day. Everyone stay
out of the kitchen like it's just me. I don't
need a sous chev Okay, I want to just sit there.
I want to chop. I want to chop all night.
I want to listen to the music. And I'm decompressing.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
See. But you know what I love.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I love that you mentioned hobbies that don't even have
anything to do with work, because I think sometimes people
swap work for work and oh my god, and I
don't think you should do that, particularly if you're trying
to fight burnout. I think another thing that's really important
here is that you should seek support. Now, I think
that support can also happen internally here, so you can
(16:12):
also talk to your manager, you can talk to co workers,
particularly with the manager. Let me focus on that one first.
I think that you can have an honest conversation with
them about how you're feeling, come with solutions right also,
and like kind of give them a lay of the land.
I have done this before with managers of mine, where
I have said, like, I am really stressed out based
(16:33):
upon my workload. Can you just help me review everything
that I have and help me prioritize, like what is
the most important versus least? And one thing that I
have found is that by giving them that access, they're able.
A good manager is good to identify, Okay, here's what
I can take off of your plate, or what you
can outsource to somebody else. And then they're also going
to help you figure out because if you're like me,
(16:55):
you think everything is a level ten priority and it's not. Yeah,
and that also adds to the stress, which then also
leads to burnout. Your co workers are also people you
lean on, right, Like the idea of like being able
to talk to someone like you did right or like
I do sometimes like you need that. And then also
obviously external friendships and so the people outside of your
job are gonna help remind you that this is not
(17:16):
your whole life, right, yes, because you know what, they're
gonna be sick of it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They're gonna be like, I'm tired of you. My roommate's like,
I'm done with this same thing. You keep talking, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
She's gonna be like, of course you're burned out. You're
working twelve hour days. Let's go to halfy hour. But
like you need that, and then like you'd be like,
oh wow, this thing that I thought was this huge
thing in my life really is a lot smaller.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So you got to get outside. You have to have support.
Another thing.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's also not a bad idea to consider taking breaks.
Oh yeah, when it comes to breaks, there's a couple
of different breaks that I need. The first break is
literally taking a break, go outside during your lunch break, okay,
or stop working while you eat. I'm guilty, much so guilty,
(18:01):
but like, seriously, give yourself a few minutes every day
to just ground yourself. I have to force myself to
go get coffee, or to get outside to get some
fresh air, or even just the walk to and from
the you know, the train stations. Those little things allow
you to get some more mental clarity and to just breathe, right,
because sometimes we're not breathing.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Okay, I've never breathing. I've never I just tried to
shout this in therapy. I'm always holding my breath.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, no, not good, not good.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But you definitely should just figure out ways to take breaks.
Now obviously those are the smaller ones, right, and then
goes back to boundaries, knowing when you're gonna clock in,
when you're gonna clock out, giving your weekends to yourself.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Can I just say something.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Some people actually add calendar holds on their calendars to
remind themselves to break. And that's something that I want
to start doing too, because you can literally power through
the day and I'd be like, oh.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Guilty, Yeah that is me.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I got a top and that was it. Like that's
something I've learned from you. Because if you don't put
that hold, people will block.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It, I guess. But even when you have the whole
people will still oh, double book you. I'd be double tripple.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
You gotta set that soundary and you gotta enforce it.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I don't like it, am I Mariah Carey. Everyone just
want a piece that's the same meaning. But aside of those,
like also another type of break that is important.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Here are like longer breaks.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Okay, So here's the thing, guys, burnout is not the
same as just like a stressful day in the office,
which is why you have to be very thoughtful and
intentional when you ask yourself these questions of how you're feeling,
keeping a diary or a log of how long this
has been going on, and if you can being able
to talk to people, and you know, gauge like, okay,
(19:44):
is this kind of becoming a bigger thing. I say
this because burnout is not something you solve over one weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Staying in burnout is.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
A long term thing, so you have to come up
with a long term strategy. What breaks can hopefully do
is if you have the opportunity to take PTO or
discretionary time off or whatever. If you can take time
off short, use that. But if you cannot, you need
to also start looking into resources that might allow you
to take additional days for mental health or even being
(20:18):
able to take longer spans of time. Now we'll have
it down in the show description more resources for you all.
But I do know that there are also mental health
resources that are offered by FMLA, so this can also
give you weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Of time off. What's Family Medical Leave Act. I haven't
heard of that you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Have access to it, and it's really great. I mean
a lot of people know FMLA for things like maternity
or paternity care. Also if you're out on medical leave.
But let me tell you this, the same way you
care when you have a medical procedure and you need
time off work, you got to take the same care
for your mind. Okay, So definitely make sure you check
out the resources and the show description. Guys, we will
(20:57):
have them out there because I don't want to misquote anything.
But the point is, do your research. Know that it
is okay to take small breaks, but if you are
actually getting to the point of burnout that you are
now like, okay, this is impacting my life, it is
okay to look into resources to give you longer breaks
of time. You should be medically and legally protected.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Before you mentioned seeking support from your manager, and you
were sharing how you've gone about that in the past,
and I want to talk more about that, and that
brings us to our listener question. So this is our
segment Dear Work Bestie, where we bring in questions from
our listeners. This week's comes from Ben in Washington.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Lately, there's been a lot going on at working in
my personal life. I'm not feeling as motivated as I
usually am about my job. I'm starting to feel kind
of overwhelmed. How do I tell my manager how feeling
without making them feel like I'm incapable of doing my job?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So if you guys listen to our Boundaries episode, you
will realize I've already cried at work, like I have
got to the point where I'm crying in my cubicle
to my manager. But of course I'm okay, thank you
to a trauma.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I love you though you know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I laugh now, I laugh now, but you know there
are steps you can take to prevent that from happening. So,
similar to Bin, I was feeling overwhelmed and scared that
my performance was slipping. So I wanted to have that
conversation with my manager. And I think if you're you
have a good manager, they don't want you to fail
(22:31):
if you feel like you have a trusted relationship with
that person, right And I think it's going into that conversation,
like you were saying before, being open and just saying
I'm feeling overwhelmed right now, and here's what's on my plate,
And you can literally say I don't want the quality
of my work to slip. I know I can do
a good job, but I feel like I'm going to
(22:53):
get to the point where I'm unable to maintain the
quality of my work because of how I'm feeling. And
so yeah, I think vulnerable really wins here. But of
course not everyone has that relationship with their manager. But
I do think I think you can kind of come
in with the problem solution approach of saying like, hey,
here's what you know I think I can be doing
(23:14):
to kind of like lessen this overwhelm what do you
think about this? Right? And I think your manager will
be like, oh, okay, great or no, actually, why don't we
try this? But you kind of need to bring them
in as a partner either way to kind of figure
out the solution forward.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I love that a lot, because, like we talked about earlier,
your manager can help you prioritize. When I was thinking
about what Ben was saying, I was like, I think
it's also important to ask yourself, like, what is taking
the toll right, because if it's one of those bigger
projects figuring out maybe are there other coworkers you can
bring on who you can partner with and having that.
(23:51):
But it's if it's the small, like little things figuring
out how to delegate. For me, I find that, like
it's the small tasks that usually me out because my
brain is like in strategy docs all day or working
on big projects. So that allowed me to also figure out, Okay,
I can now block off time on my calendar to
go towards answering emails.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I love that you said first like figure out what
is you know, what are your main stressors, and then
also like ask your manager to help you prioritize, and also,
like I guess, speaking from my personal experience, like if
it is stuff in your personal life, you know, a
good manager understands that you are a whole human and
you have life outside the office. You know, you don't
(24:36):
have to tell everyone exactly the full story, right.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I think if the you.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Know, pandemic taught anybody anything, it's like, we have life
outside of the office, and you need to account for that.
And that's why you know, prioritizing mental health is so important.
And remember that you were hired for a reason. Your
manager isn't going to say Oh wow, you're incapable of
doing your job now because you just told me this
vulnerable thing about yourself. I do think people respect that,
(25:02):
but when you're starting out, you feel like, oh, that
vulnerability is something I can't show because I'm proving myself.
Where if you have a good manager, that's something that
they're going to, you know, be proud of you for
doing and help you kind of problem solved.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, but I mean to your point, you are proving yourself.
You're proving that you can take ownership, You're proving that
you are coming with a solution oriented mindset. You're proving
that I want to succeed in this job. I just
need a little help because it's like this. Everyone is
going to suffer grief at some point in their life.
Everyone is going to suffer something. You know, We've talked
about layoffs, We've talked about you know, being impacted by
(25:35):
different things that are happening industries. So many themes and
topics that we've talked about on this podcast are things
that are going to touch people at some point or another.
So it would naturally benefit your employer to understand that
you are a person and that these things are going
to affect you in a different way, like what affects
G is going to affect me in a different way
(25:56):
because of life circumstances. That is where you create that partnership.
But I just want to also say that if you
are experiencing continued burnout, take it from the girl who
literally has had to go to the hospital about this
hair was falling out.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I was not cute.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It was not cute. I wasn't eating or I was overeating.
I was doing a lot. It was a whole lot
of everything. If you are realizing that you are in
this continued burnout stage, it really might be time for
you to consider walking away. You are no lesser of
a person if you decide you have to do that.
In fact, I commend you for being able to prioritize
your mental health. Now obviously I get it. It's much
(26:36):
easier said than done here and I know, like you
can look out and you can see the industry, you
can see the economy, and you're nervous to take that leap.
And I also understand that not everyone has the privilege
of just being able to leave their job. But if
you are not getting the support that you need, if
you have listened to this entire episode. You have noted
a lot of things that you see in yourself. If
you've had these conversations with your manager, if you've had
(26:58):
these conversations with HI, if you work in an environment
that does not respect your boundaries, it really might be
time for you to start thinking about that exit plan.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And I just want to add one last thing is
don't be afraid to seek the help of a mental
health professional. You know, I've been in therapy for I
think most of my life and it's definitely helped me
create those boundaries around work and personal life. That has
helped kind of prevent the burnout. And then when I
was in that period because of a lot of it
(27:28):
was due to my personal life. I mean, therapy you know,
saved me in that time. So definitely consider seeking support
if you have the resources and the means to do so. Yeah,
and also see if you know your employer has a
mental health benefit and maybe they work with a therapy provider.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah. I love that you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
One thing that I was thinking of is that sometimes
your friends, your family, your loved ones could also be
the same ones who gaslight you, which.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Is why you have to have wise counseled a third
party of.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It you do like and they may not mean anything
negative by it. But you know, your parents, who have
stayed in the same job for fifty years are not
gonna tell you that at the first sign of burnout.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
To me, I know, sometimes.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
My mom would be like, oh, just like just say
you can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I'm like, I I just put on a nice outfit
as a makeup.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
When you look good, you feel good. I'm like, now
what I'm burned out? Mommy. No, they do, they do,
they do.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
But but to your point, I mean, the mental health
professional will be able to give you an objective viewpoint
of your situation, which is always nice to have so
you feel safe and supported. I mean, honestly, I think
that's always a great person to bounce ideas off of,
because otherwise, girl, you're gonna be asking yourself, am I crazy?
I mean, they're honestly there to help you navigate those thoughts,
(28:46):
So shout out to them. Okay, everyone, let's all take
a collective deep breath.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That was great, right, I know that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
An overcoming burnout doesn't happen overnight, but we hope that
after this combo, you start taking the first steps towards
addressing that burnout coming up? Have you ever talked about
your salary with your coworkers?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Is it still taboo? That's next?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
All right, Tom, you dropped so many gems you too,
like usual. Something I'm taking away from our conversation that
you said is the break's part of this, right. I
really appreciate how protective you are of your time and
how you don't only set your boundaries, you enforce them
and you have agency over your time. That's something that
(29:51):
I want to get better with. So my action item
for today is, like, I'm set. I'm going to put
some calendar holds on to break girl and maybe set
some reminder to breathe because my therapist had to do
that and I haven't even need to breathe.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
You need to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, but it's okay. My voice teacher tells me all
the time. You need to breathe.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
How we like it might take breaks and breathes like,
but seriously, but you have to remind yourself sometimes.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Sometimes the small things are really the most effective, and
they're the things that will give you the biggest benefit.
You just don't even realize it. I think one thing
that's been important that you actually mentioned is just the
importance of hobbies. Now, this is something that has been
a game changer for me this year, as I've been
getting into things that I even took like a pottery class.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
A couple of times. Terrible.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Wait, can I say something, I also wanted to take
pottery classes.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Why is it so expensive? Nobody talks about how expensive
hobbies can be. It's so expensive. Stick to cooking.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I know, right, literally, it's so expensive. But I do
think that there's such a fun thing about just trying
out hobbies, trying new things that you've never experienced before.
Sometimes they even show you things that you would want
to do. We have a whole episode on side hustles,
turning them into your full nine to five or so.
I think like there's just so much that you can
do and decentering work. Decentering something doesn't make it less important.
(31:10):
It just means that you're not fixated on it and
you have to govern your own agency.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
In that say it again.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
So I really hope that you guys are taking some
of these tips away. But before you head out, another
tip of the week, cringe, go Gianna.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
We have cringe. Are cool? It's our favorite, well my
favorite segment, I don't know. Is it your favorite? I
think so? Okay, I think it's fun.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Right, Well, we get to discuss all things workplace culture,
in the trends, and we're determining whether they are cool
or cringe.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
That almost rhymed? I think maybe in my head, Gianna, whatever.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What are we talking about this week?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Okay, we're talking about discussing your salary with your coworkers.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
How much do you make? What do you feel? How
do I feel? Yeah, let me take a sip of profit?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Question?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What a crazy question? How do you feel drying?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So I think I come at this topic in a
very particular way because as someone who was a freelancer,
like a freelance journalist for a number of years in
her career, the only way I knew how to get
paid was by asking my community, well, what were you
getting paid? Yeah, and that was still very taboo then, right,
but you would quickly learn, oh, the same editor that's
(32:31):
giving you seventy five bucks for a story is paying
someone else to seventy five. And so I have always
been a person who's like, I can ask if you
feel comfortable sharing feel you know, share If you don't,
that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I also think that having.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Paid transparency and salari transparency allows you to know whether
you are being played or not. Even in corporate facilities. Now,
there are some companies that make sure from an equitable
standpoint that people are being compensated fairly, but there are
a lot of companies that just don't do that.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
So the only way you are going to know if
you are being low balled or like if you're not
actually advancing as quickly as your peers is just by
having those conversations. But again, it doesn't bother me at all.
I just always say, like, if you ask, be careful
for what you ask, because you might find out. You
might find out that you getting played, and then I
think people get a lot upset.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
What do you think.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I love that you said that, because I think if
you're asking, you got to prepare to either be like
pleasantly surprised that you're earning more or hurt that you're
earning less, and that can definitely impact the way you
view your colleague. So you just need to be aware
of that going in. But I remember in our negotiation episode,
you said you found out you were being underpaid in
(33:45):
one of your early jobs because you spoke to one
of your guy colleagues, right.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yep, I found out I was getting paid like twenty
thousand dollars less than him, and it was wild because
we were doing the same type of work. But you
know what I think is important because you said this,
and it's like it had nothing new to him, right,
And I think we take it personal all of a sudden.
If I found out Gianna was making like three times myself,
I would be like.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Gianna, but if podcast over, But it's like, it has
nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I have so many details you could have negotiated that
you might actually have experience that I don't know of
that's reflected on that resume. There's there's so many factors here, right, Like,
so the number is just a number on paper, But
I do think that it is a number that you
can use to inform your strategy moving forward.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Okay, I agree with you. I think there's a lot
of value in having transparent conversations with your I will
say work friends, because they need to be trusted.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Colleagues, very trusted.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yes, we're not just throwing this around like a Friday night, No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I honestly remember at one point, like a few of
us like gathered in a conference room and we were
like we talked about it because you know, when it
comes to promotions, when it comes to raises, you don't
know what you don't know, correct, And like you were saying,
sometimes pay transparency within a company isn't you know, super transparent.
(35:08):
So having those conversations with your colleagues can be really
informative when you think about like asking for a raise
and going after promotion. It didn't tarnish my view of
them whatsoever, but it just gave me information that I
had in the back of my head as context. And
now listen, I wasn't going into any negotiations saying well
I know so and so is making X y Z
(35:28):
that part. No, Like listen, like that is not something
that you throw in somebody else's face. That's not used
as ammunition. It's like background research that you got to
keep in your head. Yes, and it's just all context.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
At the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Some things don't need to be said out loud, and like,
so if someone actually was open and vulnerable enough with
you to share that information, don't use it to don't, don't.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Don't organize them. Yeah, yeah, so I agree again, is
it cool or crazy?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
I think it's cool. It can get cringe if you
be chatting it up, you go about that.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, And if a friend tells you, you don't go
tell other people.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
No, that's just between you and a friend, like me,
Gianna and like one other person could be in a
room together.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
If Gianna tell me some information, I heard it.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
If the walls, if oh gosh, lord, what would happen?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Then well, we want to know from you all.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Are you all having conversations around salary with your coworkers, family, friends,
loved ones, strangers on the street.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Like how how open are we?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I want to know what's the level of open what's
the level of openness these days?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Let us know.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But in the meantime, thank you guys so much for
listening to another fun, slightly chaotic, but very action packed episode.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, we always end on the chaotic noise.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Always gotta go out strong.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Okay, Yeah, you guys can let us know your take
in the newsletter this week. Make sure you're following. It's
called Let's Talk offline, where we go even deeper into
the topics we discuss on the podcast. The link is
in the show to description and in my LinkedIn bio
this week, let us know in the comments or share
a post on LinkedIn and tag Jamay and I about
your take on cool Cringe. We want to chat with
all of our work besties.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes now.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Also, thank you Ben for sending in your question. We
loved answering it and we hope that it was valuable
for you you all. You all can also send us
your questions. Information on how to do that is in
the show description. Make sure you check out the show description.
There is a lot of resources that will be down there.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Also, make sure you guys rate and follow the show
so you get notified when new episodes get released. And
we would love to hear from you what you're taking
away from the show, how you're feeling about it. Let
us know, leave a review, let us know all right,
before you go, remember we've always got your back, So
something comes up. Let's Talk Offline. I'm Jianna Predenti.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay diving.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Etour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is Head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(38:28):
chief of LinkedIn
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