November 26, 2024 • 41 mins
So you’ve put in the hours, taken on more responsibilities, and made a positive impact on the company. Seems like the right time to ask for a promotion, right? But how do you even approach that conversation? In this episode, Gianna and Jamé bring in talent recruitment expert Emily Durham, aka Emily The Recruiter, to guide you through when and how to level up in your career.
Do you have any burning questions about work? We want to hear them! You can email us your questions at letstalkoffline@linkedin.com.
And thank you to Emily Durham for joining us this week! Follow Emily on LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/edurham-hr).
For more, follow Gianna (http://linkedin.com/in/giannaprudente) and Jamé (http://linkedin.com/in/jamejackson) on LinkedIn and subscribe to Gianna’s weekly newsletter: https://linkedin.com/letstalkoffline.
Credits
Gianna Prudente - Co-host, Early Career Development Editor, LinkedIn
Jamé Jackson - Co-host, Community Manager, LinkedIn
Sabrina Fang - Producer, Western Sound
Maya Pope-Chappell - Director of Content & Audience Development, LinkedIn
Jessi Hempel - Chief Content Officer, LinkedIn
Savannah Wright - Senior Producer, Western Sound
Sarah Dealy - Associate Producer, Western Sound
Alex MacInnis - Engineer, Western Sound
Courtney Coupe - Head of Original Programming, LinkedIn
Dan Roth - Editor in Chief, LinkedIn
Ben Adair - Executive Producer, Western Sound
Katrina Norvell - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
Nikke Ettore - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
LinkedIn News. Do you think like someone should stay in
a role for a certain amount of time before they
should be asking for a promotion or should it just
be like all hands on deck, baby, like day two,
you want to give me that promotion, go ahead, let's
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It really depends on your industry. If you're an investment maker, babe,
and you walk in five months in and you go
give me that promotion, they're going to be like, take
your booty back outside. I'm not interested. It's not going
to work. Be thoughtful. If you're in tech, they might
be like, you know what, thank you for asking. Here's
a sweatshirt you start Monday. Thoughtful about your industry. If
you're in a.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Structure slutcher, literally.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Like, give give me a tech fleece. And I'm in.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
From LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. This is Let's Talk Offline,
a show about what it takes to thrive in the
early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity,
or sleep.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm Gianna Bredenti and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gatson. Take a
journey with me. Let's say you've been working at your
company for a year or so. Now You've been pretty
good at your job, coworkers are constantly praising your work,
and now you're at a point where you're like itching
for a new challenge. So you think, hmm, maybe it's
time to get a promotion. Yeah, confetti balloons, cupcakes, yum
(01:15):
yum yum. Well just kidding, because guess what your work
Bestijma is here to tell you. Getting promoted is so
much more than just being really good at your job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
No cupcakes, No, it's true.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
You know, getting promoted is honestly a marathon, not a sprint.
It's about tracking your successes, talking with your manager, and
having lots of patience, which it's not good for me
because I have no patients.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Don't know her, don't know her.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
When you're early in your career and navigating that first
possible promotion, you probably have a lot of questions. I
know I did, so we want to set you up
for success. Today we're talking all about promotions and how
you should be creating your game plan to move on up.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So today we're talking all about promotions. Gian and I
are bringing in someone very exciting. Later on, we're going
to have career coach Emily Durham, who's going to help
us position ourselves for success with those promotions. But before
Emily pops up, gee, let me ask you what's been
your experience with promotions in your work life.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
You know, promotions are something that you really have to
figure out when you join a company. It's something I
was unsure of when I started my corporate job. And
depending on the company where you work or the industry
that you work in, you know, promotions work differently. So
the truth is, and this is something that I've learned
since starting out, is that promotions are not.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Based only on performance.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, I kind of naively believed that, but there's so
many things that go into the decision whether to promote
somebody to the next level. Economic conditions come into play.
We've seen that a lot over the last few years.
The economy wasn't doing well, so maybe like the business
isn't doing so well and that impacts how many people
are getting promoted or you know, what those promotions look
like when it comes to a pay bump. And also
(03:07):
business need is another aspect, so sometimes like the business
case or scope of work just isn't there for the promotion.
So that's something I had to figure out. I had
to figure out how promotions worked here and the company
shared information. We had a presentation on it at one point,
which was helpful. But a lot of what I learned
was through having conversations with my manager and trusted colleagues,
(03:30):
just figuring out, like from their experience, how they've you know,
gone through promotions, what I should know because I'll say
it a million times, you don't know what you don't know,
So you got to be asking those questions of people
you can trust.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And also you have an hr REP.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So if you are like I need the big guns
pulling your hr rep for help when it comes to promotions.
But those conversations that I had really set me up
for success because they taught me one about the promotion
process at LinkedIn, but also helped me figure out like
what I need to do to position myself for that promotion.
(04:03):
And so last year I moved up from associate news
editor to news editor.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So I got promoted.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And at the time, I was two years into my
full time role because I had started on the contract
and then went full time, and I definitely felt ready
for the next challenge and something that I was encouraged
to do. It was kind of track myself against our
career like performance profile. So look at our career ladder
and say, Okay, as an associate, these are my responsibilities,
(04:30):
but as a news editor, this is the work I'll
be taking on. And I was functioning at the level
of a news editor for some time, so I was like, Okay,
you know, I'm ready for the next challenge. I'm doing
the next level at this point. But I was really
having those conversations with my manager like a year in advance,
I think, to kind of set myself up because I
(04:50):
also didn't realize like they got to put a whole
promotion package together for you. So yeah, I definitely was
like playing kind of the long game with the promotion,
and in that year lead up, I was having regular
conversations with my manager to say, you know, am I
on track for the promotion at annual review? And in
those conversations he would say, well, like, here's a growth
(05:13):
area that I think you can like double down on.
And then that's how I knew what to focus on
to make sure that I was ready when the time came.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Smart smart. Well, Also that goes to show that, like,
you know, your manager should be a really good partner
in this and like setting you up for success because
they're identifying, you know, blind spots for you as you're developing,
but also having those conversations early, not waiting until it
happens right then and there.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, I also didn't know. Is it like something that
you bring up? Is it something they bring up and
I don't even remember from my experience because I have
like the worst recall of life. But yeah, I didn't know,
Like are you supposed to ask? Right?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I think a lot of times we don't know, And
it may be different for different industries. Right, So people
they might go to their annual review and then that's
the first time they found out that their manager even
put them up for promotion. Yeah, I've seen that happened
before for people, right, they're like, hey, got you bumped up?
But then other people they're like, no, I'm bringing that
up first. What's your experience been like? So my situation
(06:09):
has been a little different, you know. I like to
always preface this by first saying, like, you know, there
are a ton of studies in different data points out
there that that discussed predominantly people of color, upward mobility,
and corporate America, And it's not really a happy talking point.
But I say that because sometimes I like to take
(06:29):
a step back and realize that my experience is not
like unique to me. So, as you all know, I've
done a lot of like contract and freelance work, and
so particularly when I was early in my career, I
wasn't really thinking about promotions. I was just thinking about
getting hired full time right and getting a job and
sustaining my life. Particularly once I moved to New York
and when I finally started working at like traditional like
(06:53):
nine to fives and stuff like that, I was so excited.
I was finally learning how to negotiate and all these things.
And it almost would be like a rint and repeat
of Okay, do good work. You get the accolades, the
coworkers shout you out, your managed shots you out, then
you get up into annual review and the only reward
you get is more work, no money to tote. I
(07:18):
have talked about this idea of like you said, mentioned
like business case and you know, making sure that the
scope of work that you're working on is what the
company needs. But I also have been able to acknowledge
that it's hurtful when you constantly feel like you're getting
passed over or not seen, particularly when I think some
corporations or employers use the oh we care about you,
(07:42):
we want to invest in you trope to just keep
you trapped, but they don't want to compensate you for
the work. So for me, promotions have not always been
like the most glamorous or fun thing. I am very
thankful that I've always had a growth mindset. So I
say that in two senses. Whenever I go into conversations
or whenever I get feedback, I always like to take
(08:03):
that and try to apply it because I think that
there's so much value in being able to grow. But
also I do see that your career or your job
should not just be growing vertically. I think sometimes we
make the mistake of wanting to get into companies and
we want to immediately get promoted our first year in
and sometimes there's opportunity for that. But also like knowing
(08:23):
that your job doesn't just grow vertically, it grows horizontally.
There are other skill sets that you can learn how
to do, you know, and like other things that you
can do that kind of build to this body of work.
I've always had that mindset where I like that, and
I think that's kind of the entrepreneur ending. It comes
out a lot. But with that being said, there also
are a lot of conversations in times where I've left
(08:45):
because I'm like, okay, it's again going back to this
dating idea. I will give you a chance. But the
minute I feel like that energy is not being reciprocated,
I'm not being valued. I'm not being treasured, like nah,
I'm out, And I'm the type of person I peep it,
I clock it all right, cool and in one day,
(09:07):
that's it. That's it. Yeah, And I mean, you know,
some people have probably said, oh, that's a bad thing
or a bad way to be. Like now a little older,
I do try to, like, you know, work it out,
like how I won't just leave after the first fight.
But what I will say is that doing that, being
bullish about my boundaries, especially early in my career, allowed
(09:28):
me to jump where I was almost like for a
period of time, almost doubling my salary every job I took.
So I say that, you know, walking away from places
that don't serve you only helps serve you. You just
don't see it in the moment, but you know what
I would like to learn and hopefully Emily can share
later on are tips that like what happens when you
(09:50):
do like the employer or you want to stay but
you still feel like okay, something is not right or
something is amiss, Like how do you sort of navigate that?
Because I'm a book it, I'm like, gee, love you bye.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
So promotions are more than just letting your manager know
head I want a promotion. Getting that promotion can be work,
but don't worry. We're bringing in career coach Emily Durham
to break down everything you need to do to get
that promotion.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's next.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So we're back guys, and we are talking all about promotions,
navigating them, asking for them, preparing yourself for them. Going
to war. Okay, gian and I are going to equip
you with everything. But two soldiers on the battlefield are
just two soldiers. We had to bring in the general, Gianna,
who if we bring done.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
On our own, we need help, we need all right,
We're bringing in Emily Durham. She's a talent acquisition expert
and career coach. Online she's known as Emily the Recruiter,
where she shares work and career advice to her community
of over three million followers. She's also the host of
the podcast The Straight Shooter Recruiter, a show focused on
(11:07):
career development and professional growth. Hey Emily, I love Emily.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh my goshka, I have you following me everywhere? That
was the introduction I would like from now until the
end of time.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Personally, Tomay always kills it with the analogy.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I was like, let's go. I was just about to
drop another one. I was literally thinking, The straight Shooter
Recruiter sounds like a good drink for a happy hour.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
All I'm going to say is, when you get that promotion,
you have to celebrate. I don't know what that looks
like for you, but I support.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I suppor you. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
We're so excited to have you.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And we want to kick it off with this idea
of when is it time to ask for a promotion, Like,
how do you know, Okay, maybe I'm up. It's time
for me to, you know, climb to that next rung
on the ladder, and what are some steps you should
be taking to get toward that goal.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It's a really good question. I think the biggest misconception
about promotions is that it's a thing we ask for
the best way to actually get promoted is to make
your boss feel like they're doing you a favor, like
it's a joint venture. You're going to get so much
more reward if you're having ongoing career conversations with your
boss or your manager, whoever it is, and having those
conversations that are timestamped. What I mean by that is
(12:12):
if your promotion season for the company you work at
is in December, girl, you're not going to start conversations
the first week of December like baby ship is sales
to you next year. You need to be having active,
regular check ins on your performance, and in every single
conversation you have with your manager, ask how am I
tracking to get to that next level? What am I missing?
And suddenly you're going to notice at a certain point
(12:32):
they're going to be like, yeah, I think you're there.
I'm not seeing these big gaps. That gives you the
opportunity to say, okay, great, now let's talk about that
promotion babes, like let's put pen to paper. So when
it's an ongoing conversation, it's a team effort. Your boss
is in your corner and you're not coming in with
an empty bowl saying can I have some porridge? It's
a team decision.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I love that because I think a lot of people
don't realize the value of one on ones. Like I
have weekly one on ones with my manager and sometimes
I'm just like hey, like what's going on? And then
I was like, no, I need to be more serious,
come in with an agenda. You know, have these career
goal setting conversations week to week. But I'm wondering, like,
let's say you and your manager are having those conversations,
but you're the one who needs to bring it up.
(13:12):
Like you're like, Okay, he has in or she hasn't
said it's time for you to get promoted. You feel
like I need to, you know, bring up that conversation.
So what's the best way to go about that?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, first thing is mindset. You need to go in
there with the mindset that I ask for the things
that I want and that's why I get them. So
you need to eliminate the guilt when it comes to
the conversation. The idea isn't that you're going in with
a laundry list of here's why I'm fantastic, But internally,
you know, you deliver, you know, you're tracking because you've
had these career conversations. So when it's time to really
(13:41):
initiate that discussion, you sit down with your leader. You
thank them for the opportunities that you've had so far.
You ask if they still feel like you're tracking from
a performance perspective, and if the answer is yes, it's
okay to say, I'm excited to keep growing on this team.
How can we start partnering to think about getting me
to that senior position or to that manager position. Leave
the ball in their court, let them guide the conversation.
(14:03):
If you have the kind of manager who's not going
to lean in and support you, you might have to
get more aggressive. But nine times out of ten, if
you're making it a joint venture and asking for their help,
they've got way more buy in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, and I appreciate you mentioning it about being a
partnership as well. I mean, you have to own your career,
but you also can see them as a partner in
helping you get to that next level. So what are
some ways people can track their progress and their achievements
throughout the year. Knowing that you know you'll have to
probably write a performance review. Maybe your manager has to
prepare a promotion package at some point. Are there ways
(14:36):
you can help your manager notice your progress and achievements
as well?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Oh, such a good question. I'm a big fan of
an I Love myself or I did that list, And
it's literally a list you make on whatever your preferred
platform is where you're keeping active track of all of
your accomplishments, big and small. Maybe it's that really nice
email you got from a customer. Save that into a folder,
link it into that sheet that you have. Maybe it's
like a big accomplishment that you had with the team
(15:01):
where you delivered this great presentation. At the end of
every Friday, I want you to write down a couple
of things that went really well. A that is an
imposter syndrome, crushing combination. That is going to eliminate that
voice in your head saying that you shouldn't be asking
for the raise. But all of that means nothing if
you don't have visibility. So how you get visibility is
going back to those one on ones with your manager.
(15:22):
You start off with a small talk and then you say,
I just wanted to give you an update on last week.
He were some of the key wins. It's another way
to share those accomplishments. Another great way to give yourself
space to highlight your experience is actually to compliment other people.
So in your Slack group with your team, say Susie
did such a good job on that presentation. That was fantastic.
Susie suddenly is going to be like, well, talk about
(15:42):
that presentation. The data you pulled was ten out of ten,
and suddenly there's visibility for everybody, and everybody starts winning.
But I cannot underscore the importance keep an active tracker
of why you're fantastic, and when you're having a down date,
it's not bad to go in there and.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Look at how much people love you.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It's a nice feeling.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Something I also do is I have a reminder go
off every Friday to track my wins, and I have
a channel just for myself on Slack where I put
my wins because the first time I wrote my performance review,
I was like, oh God, what have I done in
the last year, and it's super overwhelming. So I love
that advice. All right, I want to bring up a
question from one of our listeners.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Next.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
This is our fun segment called Dear Work, Bestie, where
we answer questions from people who listen to the show.
This week's comes from Chloe and New York.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I work bestie is.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
My question is how do you transition from an entry
level position to mid and senior level roles without standing
out as the youngster? I found myself in the situation before,
and I find that people don't always believe that I'm
an expert because of my age. So what do I do.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
To remedy this?
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Ooh, I totally feel that, Chloe, what do you think? Emily?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
First of all, Ta Chloe, thank you so much. And
I think that's something a lot of people, especially young
women face, and it's very dependent as well in the
industry that you're in. Different intersections of identity are always
going to change what our work experience looks like. I'm
going to say a couple of things. The first is
people can't dispute facts, babes, and I think if we
go in with data when we're delivering our weekly impact
(17:13):
results to our team, when we're showing up to team
meetings with the I increase the click through rate by
one hundred and twenty percent this week. Pretty hard for
you to cute little girl me when I've got numbers
in your face you haven't hit in your entire career.
Go in big, put that on T shirt. Bring the receipts.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
It's received. I told you guys, we were bringing the
general app guys, and baby, we're hitting Emily. Come in
and swinging.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
You drop it at the end of the day. If
you come in with a data backed approach to sharing
wins and collaborating with your team, you cannot dispute data.
So lead with data when you are asking for things.
Lead with data when you present updates. Be firm in
the data that you present if you are finding authentically
that even as you push for data, you're having opportunities
(17:56):
taken away and given to people who objectively have worse results.
But maybe we have those five ten plus years of experience.
I'm going to ask you a hard question. Do you
want a company that doesn't value you because of your age?
Is that the kind of company you want to work at?
Job market's tough. It's also tough being in a job
that makes you feel lousy for showing up as you are.
So do what you can be data backed. Never feel
(18:16):
guilt for looking at that company the same way you
can look at your man and say I can do better.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Did Emily and I talk before this podcast y'all because
you know, my two favorite things to talk about our
food and dating, and Emily and the brought up both,
so I appreciate those analogies.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I'm wondering, what if that person who is viewing you
as the youngster and doesn't believe that you kind of
have the expertise to level up is your manager? Like,
how do you go about that in that situation?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Ooh, spicy.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's really hard and oftentimes it can be our managers
there are biggest supporter. They're also the biggest gatekeeper of
our career development. If you're having those regular check ins,
you're data backed in those conversations, and you're still feeling
like you're being blocked, it's okay to ask your manager.
I'm feeling like I'm not seeing the career growth that
I'm hoping for. Is there any feedback on how I
can improve so I can get to that next level?
(19:03):
If we play the right amount of stupid like I
don't understand what's going on here? Can you help me
see it? And how can I get better so you
see my worth, they may actually come back and say, yeah,
I've noticed this is a skill gap and that might
level up your career. That might also be the question
that makes them realize they don't have a data backed
reason for holding back opportunity for you. That might be
the game changer. And if they dance around that question,
(19:25):
if they dance around that conversation, they're showing you their
true colors.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You just need to.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Decide what you will and won't accept in the stage
of your career. And it's okay to stand a job
you're not going to grow in.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You just need to have that information to make the
decision that feels right for you.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah. So, Emily, you've mentioned a number of things that
people can be doing, such as, you know, documenting their
wins throughout the year, having frequent check ins with their manager,
backing it up with data. But are there any other
common mistakes you find that people make when it comes
to asking for a promotion.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
The first is timing. Every company, for the most part,
has promotion cycles. If you're asking for a promotion outside
of those cycles, not only is it unlikely that you're
gonna get it, you might actually get side eyed because
it's like, what do you mean? You don't know when
our promotions are Clearly this isn't something that's on your radar,
So be thoughtful about when you ask. Building off of that,
you cannot ask a week before, two weeks before. This
(20:18):
is a six month before your promotion cycle at a minimum,
because it takes time to build the case the documentation.
What if you do have a performance gap that you
need to work on to get there, give yourself the runway.
The other thing I'll say is you never want the
ask for a promotion to be a demand. It's never
going to work. What you need to do is make
it a collaborative effort. You don't want to come in
with a presentation, a pitch. That's not what's going to
(20:41):
get you the results. It's a conversation. And a good
boss and a good leader knows when you shine and
get promoted, they look good. Do you know how good
that looks on your own performance review? That they've had
this employee for three years and they're already promoted. Clearly
they're a good leader. So set your relationship up with
your leader up for success when you're being thoughtful about
the timing.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, quick follow up to that, do you think like
someone should stay in a role for a certain amount
of time before they should be asking for a promotion,
or should it just be like all hands on deck, baby,
like day two, you want to give me that promotion,
go ahead, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, I'm going to give you my Emily answer, and
then I'm going to give you like the unfortunate Reality answer.
It really depends on your industry. If you're an investment maker, babe,
and you walk in five months in and you go
give me that promotion, they're going to be like, take
your booty back outside. I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Be thought But if you're in tech, they might be like,
you know what, thank you for asking. Here's a sweatshirt
you start Monday. Be thoughtful about your industry. If you're
in a structure, so literally like give give me a
tech fleece and I'm in. If you have to be
thoughtful about your industry, what are the industry norms for
the space that you're working in? What are the team norms.
With that being said, you need to pay attention to
when you've been quietly promoted. And quiet promotions are sneaky
(21:51):
because you don't always see them coming. But that's when
you're getting more and more work for the same pay,
same title. Sometimes there's short periods of that, and we
can accept it. If you've been a role in a
role for six months, let's say month seven, eight, nine, ten,
Suddenly the next five months you've been doing the job
of two people and you've only been in the role
for a year. Yeah, it's time to ask, and it's
appropriate to do that, even if it is early in
(22:12):
your career. You just need to be thoughtful about the
amount of work you're doing for the amount that you're
getting paid, and if those aren't aligning, absolutely go in
there and ask for more.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh so good.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
So let's say you get that promotion, right, you had
to talk with your manager, you lay that plan six
months out, and you earn it, but it's not exactly
what you were expecting. So let's say the pay raise
that comes with the promotion is just not as high
as you were hoping it would be. Can you negotiate
that or is that something that you should have done preemptively?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Like when they.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Hand you that award letter with your promotion and potentially
a raise, is that set in stone?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Like what's the deal there?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's kind of a tricky one. I would say nine
times out of ten, it is set in stone because
most companies that are going through these promotion cycles, it's standardized.
So this year, everyone who's getting this level of promotion
is getting a three percent raise or whatever that raise
might be. It's a great idea when you're having that
more formal conversation. So that chat we spoke about, when
you tell your manager, you're telling me my performance is there.
(23:10):
Let's talk about that next step. It's okay to lean
into the playing Oh, I don't know, this is new
to me and say, do you know approximately how much
people play with in terms of salary increases. That's not
super important to me. I just want to set my expectations.
It's okay to have that conversation and come at it
from a I'm just learning and exploring lens versus that
kind of direct, pointed conversation. If you are hearing numbers
(23:33):
that don't feel good to you, it's okay to take
that job and only take it for a couple of months.
Just because you get a promotion doesn't mean you're locking
key with this company for the rest of your life.
But if you do feel the need to negotiate, try
to do it before you get that piece of paper.
When you get it, it's okay to push. I would
just say, be prepared to be disappointed, because I have
very rarely seen them come back with any flexibility.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, So, Emily, I want to bring up something that's
a little uncomfortable for a lot of people to talk about.
But again, these are conversations that I'm often having with
a lot of my friends, particularly like professionals of color.
You know, there are so many studies that we are
constantly talking about that have shown that, you know, black
women in particular, but also just women across the board,
women of color particularly are usually less likely to be promoted.
(24:19):
And I also find that it's ironic because some of
these same studies also have shown that black women on
white teams also have higher turnover rates, and there have
been a number of studies that have tried to see
if there's a correlation. And then, you know, I often
reflect on this idea that when I was growing up,
my mother always said, you're gonna have to work at
least two three times as hard as everybody else to
get even a portion of what others have. And so
(24:40):
these are things that are always front of mine for me,
at what point do you think someone should stay and
pivot and advocate for themselves, and at what point do
you feel like it could be gaslighting and that they
should reconsider employment.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That's an exceptional question. I think it's going to be
personal for everyone. It would be entirely too privileged to
say we just get to walk away every single time,
because sometimes financially that's not on the table for any
of us. I think first, it's so important to understand
the context of why, because I think some people hear
things like the wage gap and the different intersections of
identity and how that impacts promotions performance, even salary negotiations.
(25:18):
It isn't as explicit as people think it is. People
aren't saying out loud, this person is a part of
X group, so I'm paying them less. You have to
look at historically who the key decision makers are, and
a lot of major industries it's predominantly folks who don't
have super diverse backgrounds that they're coming from. You also
have to look at what the promotions process is. We
know white women and white men get rewarded for being assertive.
(25:40):
We know black women unequivocally get punished every single time.
And fundamentally, how you negotiate is by being assertive. So
no matter what, if you are not coming from a
CIS white background, you're going to be three steps behind,
and it's going to be pushy coming from the wrong audience.
Here's where I think we need to be thoughtful about
the companies. A lot of companies on their career website
are going to tell you, oh, we care a lot
(26:02):
in that interview, even in those promotion conversations. Take a
hard look at what your senior leadership team looks like,
not your middle management, not your individual contributors. How many
black women are in leadership at that company. That's going
to tell you a lot. Going back to your question,
because I feel as though I've rambled, I could speak
about this for thirty years, is the first thing you
need to do is look at the true culture of
that company by way of who those leaders are. If
(26:23):
there are people who are going to advocate for you
at that company, and a culture of action, not a
culture of posting on social media, for actually keeping track
of what different promotion rates, different compensation rates look like
across different groups at that organization. That's a good sign
that company maybe may not have the best outcome all
the time, but the intention is there. You can work
with that. If this is the kind of company that's
(26:45):
going to shut you down and then slap your face
on that career's website, get the heck out of there.
You need to get out of there. What you need
to look at is how transparent a company is with
data in terms of employment and promotion, what they do
in terms of salary equity and wage equity internally, and
how many leaders are there to truly advocate for you.
If you don't have those four things, you have a
company that is going to consistently punish you for showing
(27:07):
up for yourself. And I guarantee there's an organization out
there who may not have all four, but at least
have a combination that's going to keep you paid and
keep your mental in check.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, you know, so often people will say, you know,
if a job is stressing you out, leave baby. Do
you know I have bills like you know? So I
appreciate that it's not just so black and white as
far as just leave right. But what I'm hearing from
you is make a game plan, make an action plan
and evaluate both before you get there as well as
(27:37):
while you're in what your next steps are. And don't
be afraid to advocate for yourself. Emily, I feel like
we could talk to you all day, but I want
to round this convo out by, you know, equipping people
who are listening who may have asked for the promotion
and didn't get it. So let's say you don't receive
the promotion you're hoping for. What are some questions that
(27:59):
you should ask your manager so that you can understand
what steps will get you to that next level.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Really good question. I'm a big believer and don't do
anything until you felt the feelings. You're allowed to be sad.
Everyone's going to tell you rejection is redirection, it's a blessing.
That's true, but you're not going to feel that for
the first little bit. So sit in the ad sit
in the disappointment. You're allowed to feel those things. After
you've felt those things, book a follow up meeting with
your boss, ideally in person or zoom. Have a list
(28:28):
of questions, and here's what I would recommend saying. Number One,
you start off with thanking them, thank them in advance
for their investment in your career. Thank them for their
honesty because that does create that foundation of trust. Next,
I think you should also share here's how I perceived
my performance. Can you help me understand where the gaps
were and where my areas of opportunity were. Your boss
(28:49):
should pretty easily be able to say here are the
three or four things. What you're going to say is
thank you so much. Can I come back to you
in a week with my action plan and maybe you
and I can work together on how we can create
a game plan for the next twelve months. So this
time next year, I get that promotion, take it away.
Create the game plan. For example, if it was presentation skills,
maybe you're going to join a toastmasters club. Maybe you're
(29:10):
going to network with one new person a week to
help build up those communication skills. Create a specific plan,
run it by your boss, and then in every single
one on one recap and go through that to make
sure you're tracking those goals. So this time next year,
you know there's no disappointing surprises.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I love that, and it.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Doesn't make you a failure like it does not make
you a weirdo, a loser. You're going to feel down
for a little bit for not getting that promotion or
not getting that dream job. But at the end of
the day, the need to feel like our worth is
tied to our work isn't a real thing. You're never
going to look back on your life and wish you
worked more. So let yourself be sad, but also recognize
your job is a ten to say, right, I retired
(29:48):
by forty.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Look now, my soft life is getting a little too
hard right now. No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The lottery is looking fantastic. And that's coming from someone
whose careers careers. I think it's I think it's normal
for us to feel disappointed and feel sad, But you
cannot let your self, identity, and your worth is a
person be tied to whether or not you got that promotion.
Your job should be the least interesting thing about you
as a person. It really should.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Can you expound on that, because I know for career
driven women in people in general, there's a tendency to
tie identity to our achievements. Like I don't know about
anyone else, I feel like a personal failure when I've
worked hard for something and then it doesn't happen. So
how do you get out of that funk, because that's
a that it almost feels like a personal dep ego
(30:35):
blow my humanity. Yeah, exactly, it does.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And I think one of the core things, especially women
have to dismantle is that our worth comes from what
we offer and what we provide. But our worth is
inherent us existing is our worth. One of the best
ways you can untie that is after work, don't talk
about it. Stop asking people the first time you meet them,
what do you do for work?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
What do you do for fun? Do we have hobbies
that make us feel fulfilled? Are we investing as much
time in our careers as we're investing in our mental
health and in our relationships? Hit a point by practicing
those things and slowly untying the relationship to I'm worthy
because to just I am worthy, and you will see
that work no longer stresses you out quite as badly
or at least as often, Because if you got laid off,
(31:21):
which happens all the time, do you still love yourself
the same? And if the answers know too much of
your worth and validation is coming from someone in a
cubicle telling you that they liked your PowerPoint presentation and
even saying that out loud as nuts. That should not
be why we feel good about ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Wow, did we just have therapy? Yeah? I'm feeling a
lot of things right now. Should we all cry the
collective point?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
And that'd be the first time I've cried at work, so.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it won't be the last. Let me tell you,
I'm a work cryer, babe. I take no apology.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Sometimes.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, right, Emily, this was literally when like the best conversation.
I mean, the way that you are approaching promotions is
really refreshing, and I feel like, similar to negotiations, a
conversation can be so uncomfortable, especially when you're early in
your career. You feel like, I'm just like grateful to
have this job. Maybe I don't feel so deserving, but
it really comes back to like recognizing your worth and
(32:16):
approaching that conversation with your manager well in advance, like
as to equals and presenting your case rather than feel
like you need to beg for a promotion.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Right one percent, I cannot thank you enough. This was
so much fun. But if there's one takeaway, it's that
you are in the room because you deserve to be
and your boss is not doing you a favor by
them paying you for services that you provide.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Well, I love that, all right, tell everybody where they
can find you before we let you go.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Emily
dot the Dot recruiter, or you can listen to my
podcast We're live every Sunday and Wednesday, the Straight Shooter
Recruiter on all streaming platforms.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yay, Thanks Emily, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Thank you all who knew there was so much to
say about promotions. Emily dropped so many awesome tips that
we hope will help you move. Ona coming up. How
important is coffee in your life? You think he can
give it up?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
That's next. So I'm obsessed with Emily. I think we're
the best friends.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
That's the power to make me like emotionally cry like that, Like,
but she's so.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Amazing, She's amazing. I love it. Okay.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Something I'm really taking away from that conversation is the
value of regular check ins with your manager and the
importance of making the most of your one on ones.
Like she said, you should be having promotion conversations at
least six months in advance. And I would even argue,
like I feel like from my own experience, it's like
a year in advance, right, So it's going into those
one on ones with a clear agenda of what you
(33:56):
want to accomplish, and then serving up your wins to
your manager in whatever way is best for them, whether
it's like recapping after you know you're one on one
with a quick note and be like, here's what we
talked about, and here where the key wins, like giving
them the ammunition they need to then go to bat
for you go to battle ye like we were saying before, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Everyone, this is an army. Now I love it. I
agree one thousand percent. I think for me, a couple
of things I'm taking away is to approach everything as
a conversation. You know, I love that she gave us
so much language on how you can talk to whether
you have a supportive manager or you don't, whether you've
gotten the promotion or you didn't, like you can continue
to have this active conversation and getting the feedback to
(34:36):
equip you with everything that you need. But what I
also appreciated is that you have so much more worth
than just the title. And I know, like it can
feel like such a personal blow to yourself, right, when
you don't get it, but you have the power to
choose what are the next steps in this whether it's
you know, we didn't even talk about it, but maybe
that's even thinking about internal mobility and how you can
(34:56):
transfer to other teams or take on new roles. But
also at the end of the day, if you have
to walk away, go out with your head hell high
and know that you fought for what you deserve.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Yeah, I feel like shed dropped so many amazing piece
of advice. So I'm curious for those listening, what did
you really take away from this conversation, Jamay and I
want to know, so at mention us on LinkedIn, put
a post up with all your takeaways from this conversation.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
We'd love to know.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes, please, Okay, So now it's time for show the receipts. Now,
this is a segment, y'all where we take a look
at some of the headlines or workplace trends, maybe even
some office myths and see if there's any truth to them. Now,
usually Gianna and I are like on the same page
about these and so I'm really excited. Gee, what do
you have in the bad this week?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I already know we're going to be on the same
page for this one. Okay, Okay, Like, listen when I
say this, but don't overreact because I just know her.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Telling me not to overreact beforehand now makes me feel
like I'm about to go to war. What's happening?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
People don't want to drink coffee anymore, and they're finding
alternative ways to maintain her energy and focus. What we
have to pry the coffee out of Jamay's hands before
we start recording.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
You will take it from my cold dead fingers. Okay, what, Yeah,
they're okay, let.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Me explain, Let me explain. Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
So the Wall Street Journal had published an article this
year titled Skipping Coffee is the Latest Humble Brag, and
it talks about how company executives and celebrities. Of course,
celebrities are quitting coffee culture to be part of this
wellness trend. Yeah, I have thoughts.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I mean, what are your thoughts? Gmna.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I literally have.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Been drinking coffee since I was like able to talk,
which is so unhealthy. But I was having some milky
coffee back in the day.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well least they had milk so you can develop bones.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, I mean, at.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
This point, like I want to enjoy the taste of coffee,
and I do feel like I am now reliant on
it to function, Like I will have a headache. You know,
it's always at like three pm, I have a headache.
Is it because I'm dehydrated or any coffee? And I
will always choose coffee. Coffee for me at least does
sometimes peak the anxiety. You know, it makes you feel
jittery obviously. You know it can affect your sleep, depending
(37:07):
on when you have it and alternate ways. People are
caffeinating now or you know, team or water.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Macha. You know you're Macha girl. I am, but it's
just not the same.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
No, she's not the star of the show.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, so how are you feeling about this? Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I mean I'm like you. I've been drinking coffee since
I could remember. I mean, I was pulling all nighters
in middle school. Oh damn, So the coffee you me.
We have known each other for a very long time.
We will find it out. We will find ourselves in
every lifetime. No, I mean, there's no substitute for coffee.
She is that girl.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Listen, like if it's a humble brag, not us, and
we're not bragging.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And you know what, one thing I will say because
I want to bring this back also into work. I
think that the problem I have is that a lot
of like maybe high functioning people, particularly in the workforce.
You know, you get some CEOs or corporate execs, maybe
even celebrities. What they're not telling you is that they're
outsourcing a lot of their work to their team members.
(38:08):
So guess what you're bringing down that stress? Maybe you
don't need coffee because guess what, maybe you don't have
to go to the eight am. Now there are some
you know, people who are like whatever, but maybe they
do other things that we will not say on this
podcast because I don't want to get deemed well.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Speaking of I have some examples. I brought the receipts.
Let's bring up Mark Zuckerberg. He doesn't drink coffee at all.
He says, mixed martial arts, training, protein and sleep help
him maintain his energy and focus.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Cat must be a nice Mark.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Giselle Bunchin I hope I'm saying her name right. The
Victoria's Secrets X model says she starts her morning with
room temperature water, lemon and Celtic salt.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, that checks out.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I've done that. I've done warm water with some lemon
and the saw also helps a little.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Bit, but it's not caffeinating me.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I think people are lying or they're waking up and
then they're going right back to sleep. Something is something
is a I love coffee so much. I have a
perfume that smells like like coffee fish coffee. I have
one too, and it's called the coffee break though. Oh
my god, me too. Yeah, okay, so the coffee. We
(39:15):
are not the demographic here, but I mean again, if
you want to find other alternatives, or if coffee or
caffeine particularly you know, gives you the jitters, you know,
try something else. And for anyone listening, if you have
found other ways to be productive and you've been able
to ditch the caffeine, please let Gianna and I know
(39:35):
we would love to maybe try this out. I will
go back to the coffee because we are enjoying relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Let me enjoy it. But yeah, we need to s
us with this coffee addiction, so let us know.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Wild Well, guys, you know where I stand as I
literally take a sip of coffee to close us out
and more to come. Thank you so much, guys for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Yes, thanks guys for listening.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Let us know your take on this coffee culture cancelation
in the newsletter this week, it's called Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
You guys already know. Make sure you're subscribed.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
The link is in the show description and also in
my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yes, and also we've got to give a huge shout
out to Chloe. Chloe girl, thank you so much for
sending a new question. Now the rest of you, Yes,
I'm looking right at you. You can be just like Chloe. Okay,
send us your questions. Look, we need we want them,
we want them. Everything on how to do that is
(40:31):
in the show description.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Please look, Please, one last thing, make sure you guys
are following the show.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Leave a rating and a review. We'd love to hear
from you.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
All Right, that's it for today, But before you go,
remember we've always got your back.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
So something comes up, Let's Talk Offline. I'm Gianna Predente.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm writing to get coffee, but I'm Jamaie Jackson Gaston,
stay thriving.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
I Heart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound.
Our producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by
Savannah Wright. Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis
is our engineer, and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki E. Tour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Umple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is Head of News Production, Courtney Coop is Head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(41:32):
chief of LinkedIn
LinkedIn News. Do you think like someone should stay in
a role for a certain amount of time before they
should be asking for a promotion or should it just
be like all hands on deck, baby, like day two,
you want to give me that promotion, go ahead, let's
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It really depends on your industry. If you're an investment maker, babe,
and you walk in five months in and you go
give me that promotion, they're going to be like, take
your booty back outside. I'm not interested. It's not going
to work. Be thoughtful. If you're in tech, they might
be like, you know what, thank you for asking. Here's
a sweatshirt you start Monday. Thoughtful about your industry. If
you're in a.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Structure slutcher, literally.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Like, give give me a tech fleece. And I'm in.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
From LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. This is Let's Talk Offline,
a show about what it takes to thrive in the
early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity,
or sleep.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm Gianna Bredenti and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gatson. Take a
journey with me. Let's say you've been working at your
company for a year or so. Now You've been pretty
good at your job, coworkers are constantly praising your work,
and now you're at a point where you're like itching
for a new challenge. So you think, hmm, maybe it's
time to get a promotion. Yeah, confetti balloons, cupcakes, yum
(01:15):
yum yum. Well just kidding, because guess what your work
Bestijma is here to tell you. Getting promoted is so
much more than just being really good at your job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
No cupcakes, No, it's true.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
You know, getting promoted is honestly a marathon, not a sprint.
It's about tracking your successes, talking with your manager, and
having lots of patience, which it's not good for me
because I have no patients.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Don't know her, don't know her.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
When you're early in your career and navigating that first
possible promotion, you probably have a lot of questions. I
know I did, so we want to set you up
for success. Today we're talking all about promotions and how
you should be creating your game plan to move on up.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So today we're talking all about promotions. Gian and I
are bringing in someone very exciting. Later on, we're going
to have career coach Emily Durham, who's going to help
us position ourselves for success with those promotions. But before
Emily pops up, gee, let me ask you what's been
your experience with promotions in your work life.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
You know, promotions are something that you really have to
figure out when you join a company. It's something I
was unsure of when I started my corporate job. And
depending on the company where you work or the industry
that you work in, you know, promotions work differently. So
the truth is, and this is something that I've learned
since starting out, is that promotions are not.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Based only on performance.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, I kind of naively believed that, but there's so
many things that go into the decision whether to promote
somebody to the next level. Economic conditions come into play.
We've seen that a lot over the last few years.
The economy wasn't doing well, so maybe like the business
isn't doing so well and that impacts how many people
are getting promoted or you know, what those promotions look
like when it comes to a pay bump. And also
(03:07):
business need is another aspect, so sometimes like the business
case or scope of work just isn't there for the promotion.
So that's something I had to figure out. I had
to figure out how promotions worked here and the company
shared information. We had a presentation on it at one point,
which was helpful. But a lot of what I learned
was through having conversations with my manager and trusted colleagues,
(03:30):
just figuring out, like from their experience, how they've you know,
gone through promotions, what I should know because I'll say
it a million times, you don't know what you don't know,
So you got to be asking those questions of people
you can trust.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And also you have an hr REP.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So if you are like I need the big guns
pulling your hr rep for help when it comes to promotions.
But those conversations that I had really set me up
for success because they taught me one about the promotion
process at LinkedIn, but also helped me figure out like
what I need to do to position myself for that promotion.
(04:03):
And so last year I moved up from associate news
editor to news editor.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So I got promoted.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And at the time, I was two years into my
full time role because I had started on the contract
and then went full time, and I definitely felt ready
for the next challenge and something that I was encouraged
to do. It was kind of track myself against our
career like performance profile. So look at our career ladder
and say, Okay, as an associate, these are my responsibilities,
(04:30):
but as a news editor, this is the work I'll
be taking on. And I was functioning at the level
of a news editor for some time, so I was like, Okay,
you know, I'm ready for the next challenge. I'm doing
the next level at this point. But I was really
having those conversations with my manager like a year in advance,
I think, to kind of set myself up because I
(04:50):
also didn't realize like they got to put a whole
promotion package together for you. So yeah, I definitely was
like playing kind of the long game with the promotion,
and in that year lead up, I was having regular
conversations with my manager to say, you know, am I
on track for the promotion at annual review? And in
those conversations he would say, well, like, here's a growth
(05:13):
area that I think you can like double down on.
And then that's how I knew what to focus on
to make sure that I was ready when the time came.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Smart smart. Well, Also that goes to show that, like,
you know, your manager should be a really good partner
in this and like setting you up for success because
they're identifying, you know, blind spots for you as you're developing,
but also having those conversations early, not waiting until it
happens right then and there.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, I also didn't know. Is it like something that
you bring up? Is it something they bring up and
I don't even remember from my experience because I have
like the worst recall of life. But yeah, I didn't know,
Like are you supposed to ask? Right?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I think a lot of times we don't know, And
it may be different for different industries. Right, So people
they might go to their annual review and then that's
the first time they found out that their manager even
put them up for promotion. Yeah, I've seen that happened
before for people, right, they're like, hey, got you bumped up?
But then other people they're like, no, I'm bringing that
up first. What's your experience been like? So my situation
(06:09):
has been a little different, you know. I like to
always preface this by first saying, like, you know, there
are a ton of studies in different data points out
there that that discussed predominantly people of color, upward mobility,
and corporate America, And it's not really a happy talking point.
But I say that because sometimes I like to take
(06:29):
a step back and realize that my experience is not
like unique to me. So, as you all know, I've
done a lot of like contract and freelance work, and
so particularly when I was early in my career, I
wasn't really thinking about promotions. I was just thinking about
getting hired full time right and getting a job and
sustaining my life. Particularly once I moved to New York
and when I finally started working at like traditional like
(06:53):
nine to fives and stuff like that, I was so excited.
I was finally learning how to negotiate and all these things.
And it almost would be like a rint and repeat
of Okay, do good work. You get the accolades, the
coworkers shout you out, your managed shots you out, then
you get up into annual review and the only reward
you get is more work, no money to tote. I
(07:18):
have talked about this idea of like you said, mentioned
like business case and you know, making sure that the
scope of work that you're working on is what the
company needs. But I also have been able to acknowledge
that it's hurtful when you constantly feel like you're getting
passed over or not seen, particularly when I think some
corporations or employers use the oh we care about you,
(07:42):
we want to invest in you trope to just keep
you trapped, but they don't want to compensate you for
the work. So for me, promotions have not always been
like the most glamorous or fun thing. I am very
thankful that I've always had a growth mindset. So I
say that in two senses. Whenever I go into conversations
or whenever I get feedback, I always like to take
(08:03):
that and try to apply it because I think that
there's so much value in being able to grow. But
also I do see that your career or your job
should not just be growing vertically. I think sometimes we
make the mistake of wanting to get into companies and
we want to immediately get promoted our first year in
and sometimes there's opportunity for that. But also like knowing
(08:23):
that your job doesn't just grow vertically, it grows horizontally.
There are other skill sets that you can learn how
to do, you know, and like other things that you
can do that kind of build to this body of work.
I've always had that mindset where I like that, and
I think that's kind of the entrepreneur ending. It comes
out a lot. But with that being said, there also
are a lot of conversations in times where I've left
(08:45):
because I'm like, okay, it's again going back to this
dating idea. I will give you a chance. But the
minute I feel like that energy is not being reciprocated,
I'm not being valued. I'm not being treasured, like nah,
I'm out, And I'm the type of person I peep it,
I clock it all right, cool and in one day,
(09:07):
that's it. That's it. Yeah, And I mean, you know,
some people have probably said, oh, that's a bad thing
or a bad way to be. Like now a little older,
I do try to, like, you know, work it out,
like how I won't just leave after the first fight.
But what I will say is that doing that, being
bullish about my boundaries, especially early in my career, allowed
(09:28):
me to jump where I was almost like for a
period of time, almost doubling my salary every job I took.
So I say that, you know, walking away from places
that don't serve you only helps serve you. You just
don't see it in the moment, but you know what
I would like to learn and hopefully Emily can share
later on are tips that like what happens when you
(09:50):
do like the employer or you want to stay but
you still feel like okay, something is not right or
something is amiss, Like how do you sort of navigate that?
Because I'm a book it, I'm like, gee, love you bye.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
So promotions are more than just letting your manager know
head I want a promotion. Getting that promotion can be work,
but don't worry. We're bringing in career coach Emily Durham
to break down everything you need to do to get
that promotion.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's next.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So we're back guys, and we are talking all about promotions,
navigating them, asking for them, preparing yourself for them. Going
to war. Okay, gian and I are going to equip
you with everything. But two soldiers on the battlefield are
just two soldiers. We had to bring in the general, Gianna,
who if we bring done.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
On our own, we need help, we need all right,
We're bringing in Emily Durham. She's a talent acquisition expert
and career coach. Online she's known as Emily the Recruiter,
where she shares work and career advice to her community
of over three million followers. She's also the host of
the podcast The Straight Shooter Recruiter, a show focused on
(11:07):
career development and professional growth. Hey Emily, I love Emily.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Oh my goshka, I have you following me everywhere? That
was the introduction I would like from now until the
end of time.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Personally, Tomay always kills it with the analogy.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I was like, let's go. I was just about to
drop another one. I was literally thinking, The straight Shooter
Recruiter sounds like a good drink for a happy hour.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
All I'm going to say is, when you get that promotion,
you have to celebrate. I don't know what that looks
like for you, but I support.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I suppor you. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
We're so excited to have you.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
And we want to kick it off with this idea
of when is it time to ask for a promotion, Like,
how do you know, Okay, maybe I'm up. It's time
for me to, you know, climb to that next rung
on the ladder, and what are some steps you should
be taking to get toward that goal.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It's a really good question. I think the biggest misconception
about promotions is that it's a thing we ask for
the best way to actually get promoted is to make
your boss feel like they're doing you a favor, like
it's a joint venture. You're going to get so much
more reward if you're having ongoing career conversations with your
boss or your manager, whoever it is, and having those
conversations that are timestamped. What I mean by that is
(12:12):
if your promotion season for the company you work at
is in December, girl, you're not going to start conversations
the first week of December like baby ship is sales
to you next year. You need to be having active,
regular check ins on your performance, and in every single
conversation you have with your manager, ask how am I
tracking to get to that next level? What am I missing?
And suddenly you're going to notice at a certain point
(12:32):
they're going to be like, yeah, I think you're there.
I'm not seeing these big gaps. That gives you the
opportunity to say, okay, great, now let's talk about that
promotion babes, like let's put pen to paper. So when
it's an ongoing conversation, it's a team effort. Your boss
is in your corner and you're not coming in with
an empty bowl saying can I have some porridge? It's
a team decision.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I love that because I think a lot of people
don't realize the value of one on ones. Like I
have weekly one on ones with my manager and sometimes
I'm just like hey, like what's going on? And then
I was like, no, I need to be more serious,
come in with an agenda. You know, have these career
goal setting conversations week to week. But I'm wondering, like,
let's say you and your manager are having those conversations,
but you're the one who needs to bring it up.
(13:12):
Like you're like, Okay, he has in or she hasn't
said it's time for you to get promoted. You feel
like I need to, you know, bring up that conversation.
So what's the best way to go about that?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, first thing is mindset. You need to go in
there with the mindset that I ask for the things
that I want and that's why I get them. So
you need to eliminate the guilt when it comes to
the conversation. The idea isn't that you're going in with
a laundry list of here's why I'm fantastic, But internally,
you know, you deliver, you know, you're tracking because you've
had these career conversations. So when it's time to really
(13:41):
initiate that discussion, you sit down with your leader. You
thank them for the opportunities that you've had so far.
You ask if they still feel like you're tracking from
a performance perspective, and if the answer is yes, it's
okay to say, I'm excited to keep growing on this team.
How can we start partnering to think about getting me
to that senior position or to that manager position. Leave
the ball in their court, let them guide the conversation.
(14:03):
If you have the kind of manager who's not going
to lean in and support you, you might have to
get more aggressive. But nine times out of ten, if
you're making it a joint venture and asking for their help,
they've got way more buy in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, and I appreciate you mentioning it about being a
partnership as well. I mean, you have to own your career,
but you also can see them as a partner in
helping you get to that next level. So what are
some ways people can track their progress and their achievements
throughout the year. Knowing that you know you'll have to
probably write a performance review. Maybe your manager has to
prepare a promotion package at some point. Are there ways
(14:36):
you can help your manager notice your progress and achievements
as well?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Oh, such a good question. I'm a big fan of
an I Love myself or I did that list, And
it's literally a list you make on whatever your preferred
platform is where you're keeping active track of all of
your accomplishments, big and small. Maybe it's that really nice
email you got from a customer. Save that into a folder,
link it into that sheet that you have. Maybe it's
like a big accomplishment that you had with the team
(15:01):
where you delivered this great presentation. At the end of
every Friday, I want you to write down a couple
of things that went really well. A that is an
imposter syndrome, crushing combination. That is going to eliminate that
voice in your head saying that you shouldn't be asking
for the raise. But all of that means nothing if
you don't have visibility. So how you get visibility is
going back to those one on ones with your manager.
(15:22):
You start off with a small talk and then you say,
I just wanted to give you an update on last week.
He were some of the key wins. It's another way
to share those accomplishments. Another great way to give yourself
space to highlight your experience is actually to compliment other people.
So in your Slack group with your team, say Susie
did such a good job on that presentation. That was fantastic.
Susie suddenly is going to be like, well, talk about
(15:42):
that presentation. The data you pulled was ten out of ten,
and suddenly there's visibility for everybody, and everybody starts winning.
But I cannot underscore the importance keep an active tracker
of why you're fantastic, and when you're having a down date,
it's not bad to go in there and.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Look at how much people love you.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It's a nice feeling.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Something I also do is I have a reminder go
off every Friday to track my wins, and I have
a channel just for myself on Slack where I put
my wins because the first time I wrote my performance review,
I was like, oh God, what have I done in
the last year, and it's super overwhelming. So I love
that advice. All right, I want to bring up a
question from one of our listeners.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Next.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
This is our fun segment called Dear Work, Bestie, where
we answer questions from people who listen to the show.
This week's comes from Chloe and New York.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I work bestie is.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
My question is how do you transition from an entry
level position to mid and senior level roles without standing
out as the youngster? I found myself in the situation before,
and I find that people don't always believe that I'm
an expert because of my age. So what do I do.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
To remedy this?
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Ooh, I totally feel that, Chloe, what do you think? Emily?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
First of all, Ta Chloe, thank you so much. And
I think that's something a lot of people, especially young
women face, and it's very dependent as well in the
industry that you're in. Different intersections of identity are always
going to change what our work experience looks like. I'm
going to say a couple of things. The first is
people can't dispute facts, babes, and I think if we
go in with data when we're delivering our weekly impact
(17:13):
results to our team, when we're showing up to team
meetings with the I increase the click through rate by
one hundred and twenty percent this week. Pretty hard for
you to cute little girl me when I've got numbers
in your face you haven't hit in your entire career.
Go in big, put that on T shirt. Bring the receipts.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
It's received. I told you guys, we were bringing the
general app guys, and baby, we're hitting Emily. Come in
and swinging.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
You drop it at the end of the day. If
you come in with a data backed approach to sharing
wins and collaborating with your team, you cannot dispute data.
So lead with data when you are asking for things.
Lead with data when you present updates. Be firm in
the data that you present if you are finding authentically
that even as you push for data, you're having opportunities
(17:56):
taken away and given to people who objectively have worse results.
But maybe we have those five ten plus years of experience.
I'm going to ask you a hard question. Do you
want a company that doesn't value you because of your age?
Is that the kind of company you want to work at?
Job market's tough. It's also tough being in a job
that makes you feel lousy for showing up as you are.
So do what you can be data backed. Never feel
(18:16):
guilt for looking at that company the same way you
can look at your man and say I can do better.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Did Emily and I talk before this podcast y'all because
you know, my two favorite things to talk about our
food and dating, and Emily and the brought up both,
so I appreciate those analogies.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
I'm wondering, what if that person who is viewing you
as the youngster and doesn't believe that you kind of
have the expertise to level up is your manager? Like,
how do you go about that in that situation?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Ooh, spicy.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's really hard and oftentimes it can be our managers
there are biggest supporter. They're also the biggest gatekeeper of
our career development. If you're having those regular check ins,
you're data backed in those conversations, and you're still feeling
like you're being blocked, it's okay to ask your manager.
I'm feeling like I'm not seeing the career growth that
I'm hoping for. Is there any feedback on how I
can improve so I can get to that next level?
(19:03):
If we play the right amount of stupid like I
don't understand what's going on here? Can you help me
see it? And how can I get better so you
see my worth, they may actually come back and say, yeah,
I've noticed this is a skill gap and that might
level up your career. That might also be the question
that makes them realize they don't have a data backed
reason for holding back opportunity for you. That might be
the game changer. And if they dance around that question,
(19:25):
if they dance around that conversation, they're showing you their
true colors.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You just need to.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Decide what you will and won't accept in the stage
of your career. And it's okay to stand a job
you're not going to grow in.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You just need to have that information to make the
decision that feels right for you.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah. So, Emily, you've mentioned a number of things that
people can be doing, such as, you know, documenting their
wins throughout the year, having frequent check ins with their manager,
backing it up with data. But are there any other
common mistakes you find that people make when it comes
to asking for a promotion.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
The first is timing. Every company, for the most part,
has promotion cycles. If you're asking for a promotion outside
of those cycles, not only is it unlikely that you're
gonna get it, you might actually get side eyed because
it's like, what do you mean? You don't know when
our promotions are Clearly this isn't something that's on your radar,
So be thoughtful about when you ask. Building off of that,
you cannot ask a week before, two weeks before. This
(20:18):
is a six month before your promotion cycle at a minimum,
because it takes time to build the case the documentation.
What if you do have a performance gap that you
need to work on to get there, give yourself the runway.
The other thing I'll say is you never want the
ask for a promotion to be a demand. It's never
going to work. What you need to do is make
it a collaborative effort. You don't want to come in
with a presentation, a pitch. That's not what's going to
(20:41):
get you the results. It's a conversation. And a good
boss and a good leader knows when you shine and
get promoted, they look good. Do you know how good
that looks on your own performance review? That they've had
this employee for three years and they're already promoted. Clearly
they're a good leader. So set your relationship up with
your leader up for success when you're being thoughtful about
the timing.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, quick follow up to that, do you think like
someone should stay in a role for a certain amount
of time before they should be asking for a promotion,
or should it just be like all hands on deck, baby,
like day two, you want to give me that promotion,
go ahead, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, I'm going to give you my Emily answer, and
then I'm going to give you like the unfortunate Reality answer.
It really depends on your industry. If you're an investment maker, babe,
and you walk in five months in and you go
give me that promotion, they're going to be like, take
your booty back outside. I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Be thought But if you're in tech, they might be like,
you know what, thank you for asking. Here's a sweatshirt
you start Monday. Be thoughtful about your industry. If you're
in a structure, so literally like give give me a
tech fleece and I'm in. If you have to be
thoughtful about your industry, what are the industry norms for
the space that you're working in? What are the team norms.
With that being said, you need to pay attention to
when you've been quietly promoted. And quiet promotions are sneaky
(21:51):
because you don't always see them coming. But that's when
you're getting more and more work for the same pay,
same title. Sometimes there's short periods of that, and we
can accept it. If you've been a role in a
role for six months, let's say month seven, eight, nine, ten,
Suddenly the next five months you've been doing the job
of two people and you've only been in the role
for a year. Yeah, it's time to ask, and it's
appropriate to do that, even if it is early in
(22:12):
your career. You just need to be thoughtful about the
amount of work you're doing for the amount that you're
getting paid, and if those aren't aligning, absolutely go in
there and ask for more.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh so good.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
So let's say you get that promotion, right, you had
to talk with your manager, you lay that plan six
months out, and you earn it, but it's not exactly
what you were expecting. So let's say the pay raise
that comes with the promotion is just not as high
as you were hoping it would be. Can you negotiate
that or is that something that you should have done preemptively?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Like when they.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Hand you that award letter with your promotion and potentially
a raise, is that set in stone?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Like what's the deal there?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's kind of a tricky one. I would say nine
times out of ten, it is set in stone because
most companies that are going through these promotion cycles, it's standardized.
So this year, everyone who's getting this level of promotion
is getting a three percent raise or whatever that raise
might be. It's a great idea when you're having that
more formal conversation. So that chat we spoke about, when
you tell your manager, you're telling me my performance is there.
(23:10):
Let's talk about that next step. It's okay to lean
into the playing Oh, I don't know, this is new
to me and say, do you know approximately how much
people play with in terms of salary increases. That's not
super important to me. I just want to set my expectations.
It's okay to have that conversation and come at it
from a I'm just learning and exploring lens versus that
kind of direct, pointed conversation. If you are hearing numbers
(23:33):
that don't feel good to you, it's okay to take
that job and only take it for a couple of months.
Just because you get a promotion doesn't mean you're locking
key with this company for the rest of your life.
But if you do feel the need to negotiate, try
to do it before you get that piece of paper.
When you get it, it's okay to push. I would
just say, be prepared to be disappointed, because I have
very rarely seen them come back with any flexibility.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, So, Emily, I want to bring up something that's
a little uncomfortable for a lot of people to talk about.
But again, these are conversations that I'm often having with
a lot of my friends, particularly like professionals of color.
You know, there are so many studies that we are
constantly talking about that have shown that, you know, black
women in particular, but also just women across the board,
women of color particularly are usually less likely to be promoted.
(24:19):
And I also find that it's ironic because some of
these same studies also have shown that black women on
white teams also have higher turnover rates, and there have
been a number of studies that have tried to see
if there's a correlation. And then, you know, I often
reflect on this idea that when I was growing up,
my mother always said, you're gonna have to work at
least two three times as hard as everybody else to
get even a portion of what others have. And so
(24:40):
these are things that are always front of mine for me,
at what point do you think someone should stay and
pivot and advocate for themselves, and at what point do
you feel like it could be gaslighting and that they
should reconsider employment.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That's an exceptional question. I think it's going to be
personal for everyone. It would be entirely too privileged to
say we just get to walk away every single time,
because sometimes financially that's not on the table for any
of us. I think first, it's so important to understand
the context of why, because I think some people hear
things like the wage gap and the different intersections of
identity and how that impacts promotions performance, even salary negotiations.
(25:18):
It isn't as explicit as people think it is. People
aren't saying out loud, this person is a part of
X group, so I'm paying them less. You have to
look at historically who the key decision makers are, and
a lot of major industries it's predominantly folks who don't
have super diverse backgrounds that they're coming from. You also
have to look at what the promotions process is. We
know white women and white men get rewarded for being assertive.
(25:40):
We know black women unequivocally get punished every single time.
And fundamentally, how you negotiate is by being assertive. So
no matter what, if you are not coming from a
CIS white background, you're going to be three steps behind,
and it's going to be pushy coming from the wrong audience.
Here's where I think we need to be thoughtful about
the companies. A lot of companies on their career website
are going to tell you, oh, we care a lot
(26:02):
in that interview, even in those promotion conversations. Take a
hard look at what your senior leadership team looks like,
not your middle management, not your individual contributors. How many
black women are in leadership at that company. That's going
to tell you a lot. Going back to your question,
because I feel as though I've rambled, I could speak
about this for thirty years, is the first thing you
need to do is look at the true culture of
that company by way of who those leaders are. If
(26:23):
there are people who are going to advocate for you
at that company, and a culture of action, not a
culture of posting on social media, for actually keeping track
of what different promotion rates, different compensation rates look like
across different groups at that organization. That's a good sign
that company maybe may not have the best outcome all
the time, but the intention is there. You can work
with that. If this is the kind of company that's
(26:45):
going to shut you down and then slap your face
on that career's website, get the heck out of there.
You need to get out of there. What you need
to look at is how transparent a company is with
data in terms of employment and promotion, what they do
in terms of salary equity and wage equity internally, and
how many leaders are there to truly advocate for you.
If you don't have those four things, you have a
company that is going to consistently punish you for showing
(27:07):
up for yourself. And I guarantee there's an organization out
there who may not have all four, but at least
have a combination that's going to keep you paid and
keep your mental in check.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, you know, so often people will say, you know,
if a job is stressing you out, leave baby. Do
you know I have bills like you know? So I
appreciate that it's not just so black and white as
far as just leave right. But what I'm hearing from
you is make a game plan, make an action plan
and evaluate both before you get there as well as
(27:37):
while you're in what your next steps are. And don't
be afraid to advocate for yourself. Emily, I feel like
we could talk to you all day, but I want
to round this convo out by, you know, equipping people
who are listening who may have asked for the promotion
and didn't get it. So let's say you don't receive
the promotion you're hoping for. What are some questions that
(27:59):
you should ask your manager so that you can understand
what steps will get you to that next level.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Really good question. I'm a big believer and don't do
anything until you felt the feelings. You're allowed to be sad.
Everyone's going to tell you rejection is redirection, it's a blessing.
That's true, but you're not going to feel that for
the first little bit. So sit in the ad sit
in the disappointment. You're allowed to feel those things. After
you've felt those things, book a follow up meeting with
your boss, ideally in person or zoom. Have a list
(28:28):
of questions, and here's what I would recommend saying. Number One,
you start off with thanking them, thank them in advance
for their investment in your career. Thank them for their
honesty because that does create that foundation of trust. Next,
I think you should also share here's how I perceived
my performance. Can you help me understand where the gaps
were and where my areas of opportunity were. Your boss
(28:49):
should pretty easily be able to say here are the
three or four things. What you're going to say is
thank you so much. Can I come back to you
in a week with my action plan and maybe you
and I can work together on how we can create
a game plan for the next twelve months. So this
time next year, I get that promotion, take it away.
Create the game plan. For example, if it was presentation skills,
maybe you're going to join a toastmasters club. Maybe you're
(29:10):
going to network with one new person a week to
help build up those communication skills. Create a specific plan,
run it by your boss, and then in every single
one on one recap and go through that to make
sure you're tracking those goals. So this time next year,
you know there's no disappointing surprises.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I love that, and it.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Doesn't make you a failure like it does not make
you a weirdo, a loser. You're going to feel down
for a little bit for not getting that promotion or
not getting that dream job. But at the end of
the day, the need to feel like our worth is
tied to our work isn't a real thing. You're never
going to look back on your life and wish you
worked more. So let yourself be sad, but also recognize
your job is a ten to say, right, I retired
(29:48):
by forty.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Look now, my soft life is getting a little too
hard right now. No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The lottery is looking fantastic. And that's coming from someone
whose careers careers. I think it's I think it's normal
for us to feel disappointed and feel sad, But you
cannot let your self, identity, and your worth is a
person be tied to whether or not you got that promotion.
Your job should be the least interesting thing about you
as a person. It really should.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Can you expound on that, because I know for career
driven women in people in general, there's a tendency to
tie identity to our achievements. Like I don't know about
anyone else, I feel like a personal failure when I've
worked hard for something and then it doesn't happen. So
how do you get out of that funk, because that's
a that it almost feels like a personal dep ego
(30:35):
blow my humanity. Yeah, exactly, it does.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And I think one of the core things, especially women
have to dismantle is that our worth comes from what
we offer and what we provide. But our worth is
inherent us existing is our worth. One of the best
ways you can untie that is after work, don't talk
about it. Stop asking people the first time you meet them,
what do you do for work?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
What do you do for fun? Do we have hobbies
that make us feel fulfilled? Are we investing as much
time in our careers as we're investing in our mental
health and in our relationships? Hit a point by practicing
those things and slowly untying the relationship to I'm worthy
because to just I am worthy, and you will see
that work no longer stresses you out quite as badly
or at least as often, Because if you got laid off,
(31:21):
which happens all the time, do you still love yourself
the same? And if the answers know too much of
your worth and validation is coming from someone in a
cubicle telling you that they liked your PowerPoint presentation and
even saying that out loud as nuts. That should not
be why we feel good about ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Wow, did we just have therapy? Yeah? I'm feeling a
lot of things right now. Should we all cry the
collective point?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
And that'd be the first time I've cried at work, so.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it won't be the last. Let me tell you,
I'm a work cryer, babe. I take no apology.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Sometimes.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, right, Emily, this was literally when like the best conversation.
I mean, the way that you are approaching promotions is
really refreshing, and I feel like, similar to negotiations, a
conversation can be so uncomfortable, especially when you're early in
your career. You feel like, I'm just like grateful to
have this job. Maybe I don't feel so deserving, but
it really comes back to like recognizing your worth and
(32:16):
approaching that conversation with your manager well in advance, like
as to equals and presenting your case rather than feel
like you need to beg for a promotion.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Right one percent, I cannot thank you enough. This was
so much fun. But if there's one takeaway, it's that
you are in the room because you deserve to be
and your boss is not doing you a favor by
them paying you for services that you provide.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Well, I love that, all right, tell everybody where they
can find you before we let you go.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Emily
dot the Dot recruiter, or you can listen to my
podcast We're live every Sunday and Wednesday, the Straight Shooter
Recruiter on all streaming platforms.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yay, Thanks Emily, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Thank you all who knew there was so much to
say about promotions. Emily dropped so many awesome tips that
we hope will help you move. Ona coming up. How
important is coffee in your life? You think he can
give it up?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
That's next. So I'm obsessed with Emily. I think we're
the best friends.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
That's the power to make me like emotionally cry like that, Like,
but she's so.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Amazing, She's amazing. I love it. Okay.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Something I'm really taking away from that conversation is the
value of regular check ins with your manager and the
importance of making the most of your one on ones.
Like she said, you should be having promotion conversations at
least six months in advance. And I would even argue,
like I feel like from my own experience, it's like
a year in advance, right, So it's going into those
one on ones with a clear agenda of what you
(33:56):
want to accomplish, and then serving up your wins to
your manager in whatever way is best for them, whether
it's like recapping after you know you're one on one
with a quick note and be like, here's what we
talked about, and here where the key wins, like giving
them the ammunition they need to then go to bat
for you go to battle ye like we were saying before, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Everyone, this is an army. Now I love it. I
agree one thousand percent. I think for me, a couple
of things I'm taking away is to approach everything as
a conversation. You know, I love that she gave us
so much language on how you can talk to whether
you have a supportive manager or you don't, whether you've
gotten the promotion or you didn't, like you can continue
to have this active conversation and getting the feedback to
(34:36):
equip you with everything that you need. But what I
also appreciated is that you have so much more worth
than just the title. And I know, like it can
feel like such a personal blow to yourself, right, when
you don't get it, but you have the power to
choose what are the next steps in this whether it's
you know, we didn't even talk about it, but maybe
that's even thinking about internal mobility and how you can
(34:56):
transfer to other teams or take on new roles. But
also at the end of the day, if you have
to walk away, go out with your head hell high
and know that you fought for what you deserve.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Yeah, I feel like shed dropped so many amazing piece
of advice. So I'm curious for those listening, what did
you really take away from this conversation, Jamay and I
want to know, so at mention us on LinkedIn, put
a post up with all your takeaways from this conversation.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
We'd love to know.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes, please, Okay, So now it's time for show the receipts. Now,
this is a segment, y'all where we take a look
at some of the headlines or workplace trends, maybe even
some office myths and see if there's any truth to them. Now,
usually Gianna and I are like on the same page
about these and so I'm really excited. Gee, what do
you have in the bad this week?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I already know we're going to be on the same
page for this one. Okay, Okay, Like, listen when I
say this, but don't overreact because I just know her.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Telling me not to overreact beforehand now makes me feel
like I'm about to go to war. What's happening?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
People don't want to drink coffee anymore, and they're finding
alternative ways to maintain her energy and focus. What we
have to pry the coffee out of Jamay's hands before
we start recording.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
You will take it from my cold dead fingers. Okay, what, Yeah,
they're okay, let.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Me explain, Let me explain. Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
So the Wall Street Journal had published an article this
year titled Skipping Coffee is the Latest Humble Brag, and
it talks about how company executives and celebrities. Of course,
celebrities are quitting coffee culture to be part of this
wellness trend. Yeah, I have thoughts.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I mean, what are your thoughts? Gmna.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
I literally have.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Been drinking coffee since I was like able to talk,
which is so unhealthy. But I was having some milky
coffee back in the day.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well least they had milk so you can develop bones.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, I mean, at.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
This point, like I want to enjoy the taste of coffee,
and I do feel like I am now reliant on
it to function, Like I will have a headache. You know,
it's always at like three pm, I have a headache.
Is it because I'm dehydrated or any coffee? And I
will always choose coffee. Coffee for me at least does
sometimes peak the anxiety. You know, it makes you feel
jittery obviously. You know it can affect your sleep, depending
(37:07):
on when you have it and alternate ways. People are
caffeinating now or you know, team or water.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Macha. You know you're Macha girl. I am, but it's
just not the same.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
No, she's not the star of the show.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah, so how are you feeling about this? Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I mean I'm like you. I've been drinking coffee since
I could remember. I mean, I was pulling all nighters
in middle school. Oh damn, So the coffee you me.
We have known each other for a very long time.
We will find it out. We will find ourselves in
every lifetime. No, I mean, there's no substitute for coffee.
She is that girl.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Listen, like if it's a humble brag, not us, and
we're not bragging.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And you know what, one thing I will say because
I want to bring this back also into work. I
think that the problem I have is that a lot
of like maybe high functioning people, particularly in the workforce.
You know, you get some CEOs or corporate execs, maybe
even celebrities. What they're not telling you is that they're
outsourcing a lot of their work to their team members.
(38:08):
So guess what you're bringing down that stress? Maybe you
don't need coffee because guess what, maybe you don't have
to go to the eight am. Now there are some
you know, people who are like whatever, but maybe they
do other things that we will not say on this
podcast because I don't want to get deemed well.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Speaking of I have some examples. I brought the receipts.
Let's bring up Mark Zuckerberg. He doesn't drink coffee at all.
He says, mixed martial arts, training, protein and sleep help
him maintain his energy and focus.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Cat must be a nice Mark.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Giselle Bunchin I hope I'm saying her name right. The
Victoria's Secrets X model says she starts her morning with
room temperature water, lemon and Celtic salt.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, that checks out.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I've done that. I've done warm water with some lemon
and the saw also helps a little.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Bit, but it's not caffeinating me.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I think people are lying or they're waking up and
then they're going right back to sleep. Something is something
is a I love coffee so much. I have a
perfume that smells like like coffee fish coffee. I have
one too, and it's called the coffee break though. Oh
my god, me too. Yeah, okay, so the coffee. We
(39:15):
are not the demographic here, but I mean again, if
you want to find other alternatives, or if coffee or
caffeine particularly you know, gives you the jitters, you know,
try something else. And for anyone listening, if you have
found other ways to be productive and you've been able
to ditch the caffeine, please let Gianna and I know
(39:35):
we would love to maybe try this out. I will
go back to the coffee because we are enjoying relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Let me enjoy it. But yeah, we need to s
us with this coffee addiction, so let us know.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Wild Well, guys, you know where I stand as I
literally take a sip of coffee to close us out
and more to come. Thank you so much, guys for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Yes, thanks guys for listening.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Let us know your take on this coffee culture cancelation
in the newsletter this week, it's called Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
You guys already know. Make sure you're subscribed.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
The link is in the show description and also in
my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yes, and also we've got to give a huge shout
out to Chloe. Chloe girl, thank you so much for
sending a new question. Now the rest of you, Yes,
I'm looking right at you. You can be just like Chloe. Okay,
send us your questions. Look, we need we want them,
we want them. Everything on how to do that is
(40:31):
in the show description.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Please look, Please, one last thing, make sure you guys
are following the show.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Leave a rating and a review. We'd love to hear
from you.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
All Right, that's it for today, But before you go,
remember we've always got your back.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
So something comes up, Let's Talk Offline. I'm Gianna Predente.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm writing to get coffee, but I'm Jamaie Jackson Gaston,
stay thriving.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
I Heart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound.
Our producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by
Savannah Wright. Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis
is our engineer, and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki E. Tour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Umple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is Head of News Production, Courtney Coop is Head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(41:32):
chief of LinkedIn
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