September 24, 2024 • 34 mins
Saying no can feel risky when you’re early in your career. You want to show you’re a team player, but if you never say no, then you’ll burn out. In this episode, Gianna and Jamé talk about why setting boundaries at your job is crucial and how boundaries set you up for long-term success. They’ll also walk you through how to say no, even in difficult situations.
Do you have any burning questions about work? We want to hear them! You can email us your questions at letstalkoffline@linkedin.com.
For more, follow Gianna (http://linkedin.com/in/giannaprudente) and Jamé (http://linkedin.com/in/jamejackson) on LinkedIn and subscribe to Gianna’s weekly newsletter: https://linkedin.com/letstalkoffline.
Credits
Gianna Prudente - Co-host, Early Career Development Editor, LinkedIn
Jamé Jackson - Co-host, Community Manager, LinkedIn
Sabrina Fang - Producer, Western Sound
Maya Pope-Chappell - Director of Content & Audience Development, LinkedIn
Jessi Hempel - Chief Content Officer, LinkedIn
Savannah Wright - Senior Producer, Western Sound
Sarah Dealy - Associate Producer, Western Sound
Alex MacInnis - Engineer, Western Sound
Courtney Coupe - Head of Original Programming, LinkedIn
Dan Roth - Editor in Chief, LinkedIn
Ben Adair - Executive Producer, Western Sound
Katrina Norvell - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
Nikke Ettore - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not even like five minutes into this conversation with him,
I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant
to be, Like I was not okay. I was really
just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point.
And I realized through the tears that I was just overworked.
I was saying yes to everything. I really wanted to
(00:27):
prove myself and I had too much on my plate
that I was gonna let things slip. And it happened.
From LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. This is Let's Talk Offline,
a show about what it takes to thrive in the
early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity
or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadston. You guys know a word
people do not like to hear, but it is extremely important. No.
It's really hard for a lot of us to say no,
because whether you are just starting out in your or
you've been in your job for a while but you're
trying to get promoted, we all have struggled with saying no.
Trust me, I have certainly been there. You really want
(01:09):
to make a great impression and most importantly, you want
people to know that they can rely on you. But honestly,
saying yes to everything can be super detrimental and at
what cost.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Boundaries are something all of us have, whether that's the
number of tasks we're willing to take on at work
or the conversations we're willing to participate in. You know,
got to protect that social battery. But where a lot
of us trip up is actually enforcing those boundaries. It's
not easy putting your foot down, especially to the boss,
but we're going to show you that there's so much
(01:41):
power in saying no.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So today, you guys, gian and I are going to
talk about workplace boundaries, what stops us from making them,
and how to communicate them with your coworkers. Gianna, boundaries
are super important because they just have so many benefits.
First of all, they help with our overall wellbeing. They
helped protect our mental health, maybe even our physical, emotional,
(02:11):
spiritual health, all the healths is. It also increases our
productivity and contributes to our own personal growth. So I'm
super excited to talk about this because I have a
lot to say. But Jianna, let's start with you. Have
you struggled to set boundaries for yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, how much time do we have? One of my
earliest memories of corporate America, this beautiful world where we work,
was a mistake that I made, my first ever mistake,
which still gives me anxiety to think about. And that
was a result of not enforcing any boundaries. So basically
(02:49):
what happened was when I started my job at LinkedIn,
I desperately wanted to prove myself and I wanted to
build a reputation as somebody who could do multiple things,
like I could wear multiple hats, and I thought that's
how you would be rewarded, right as somebody who can
do a bunch of things. So I thought the more
I took on, the more I would be seen as
(03:11):
a high performer, and really got caught up in the
quantity of my work rather than the quality. And also
at the time, I was on a contract trying to
go full time, so I really was like, I will
do anything to get that offer and make that transition.
So naturally I said yes to every single task that
came my way, and of course the quality of my
(03:34):
work suffered, so that all came to a head when
this one day I made a decision, a very rash decision,
and it was a little bit of a cutting corner
to be totally transparent. I was like, I have so
much on my plate, so like I'm just going to
do this really quickly and move on. And I thought,
you know, this decision was going to be fine. Yeah
(03:56):
it was not. It was not.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It was not fine.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So yeah, all of a sudden, like slacks were going off,
like I had made this big mistake. All these like
higher ups were getting involved. My manager wasn't even online
at the time, like it was like too earlier today,
like it was the start of the day. So I
was hyperventilating, started immediately freaking out and quickly tried to resolve,
(04:22):
you know, the issue at hand. But I realized like, okay,
I had made this really rash decision and this was
a kind of mistake where like they have a post
mortem about it.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You really.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Can just imagine like Gianna's face on a poster guy
and a meeting in a boardroom in and I.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Wasn't even in the most mortal like I was really scared.
But anyway, a post mortem is like when something goes wrong,
you have a meeting to discuss what happened and how
you can you know, do better next time that I
didn't even know those existed. All of a sudden I
saw that get thrown on the calendar for other people.
I was like, oh shoot, what did I do? So
I literally called my mom. I was like, I'm getting fired.
(05:07):
This is the end. But anyway, so that happened, and
then I had a conversation with my manager. I messaged
him and I was like, here's what just happened. Here's
how I helped resolve it, but obviously we need to talk.
So not even like five minutes into this conversation with him,
I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant
to be, Like I was not okay. I was really
(05:28):
just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point.
And in that conversation with him, I realized through the
tears that I was just overworked. I was saying yes
to everything. I really wanted to prove myself and I
had too much on my plate that I was gonna
let things slip. And it happened, right, So, yeah, that
was my first lesson in the importance of having boundaries.
(05:52):
But let me just say it has not gotten easier
saying no. It's something that I think most people struggle with,
especially when you're early in your career. But that was
my first time realizing like, Okay, I not only have
the power to say no, but I need to write
I can't be saying yes to everything.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
HM question, though, why do you think it has not
gotten easier?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I feel like when you're starting out, there's still that
pressure to prove yourself, especially in certain workplaces, like I'm
very fortunate that nobody's like, oh, Gianna's like the young
person and she doesn't know how it is, and she's,
you know, she has to work her way up and
build her reputation. Everyone's very open to ideas here, which
I think is really refreshing. But I think in general,
(06:35):
we feel like, Okay, we're coming in. We don't have experience, right,
we need to show that we're able to do the job,
so that means like not turning things down. It almost
feels like you don't have permission to say no. And
I think once you start doing it, you feel more
comfortable with it. But in the beginning it feels like
it's not even possible, and then yes, you start doing
(06:56):
it and you get more comfortable but it's still nerve
wracking being like, hey, I'm not able to take this
on because you think like they're gonna be like, oh,
she can't handle it, right, Like, oh, Gianna, she's so stressed,
she's so overwork, she can't handle it. Where really, you're
just protecting your mental health.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah. No, everything you said makes a lot of sense.
And I think that when I think about my life,
a lot of the things that you said are reflected
in that. First of all, the idea that you can't
even say no. So when I was thinking about setting
boundaries for myself, I often go back to the first
memory of what my life in corporate America was gonna
look like, and that was me being a young child
(07:32):
and my mother telling me, you are black, you are
a woman, and you might be curvy when you grow up. Okay.
I was a little skinny girl when I was younger
because I was playing athletics. But baby, I got hips now, Okay.
She was like, you are going to show up in
the world and just by the natural order of who
you are, you will have to work two, three, four
times harder than other counterparts of yours. And that stuck
(07:55):
with me because I think from that moment on every
time I got into a work situation, whether it was creative,
whether it was me touring with the dance companies, or
coming to college, or even the jobs I took after school,
I always knew Jamay does not get the privilege of
doing the bare minimum. And it's a sad reality that unfortunately,
(08:16):
a lot of professionals of color in particular or marginalized
communities have to face. But I went into every situation knowing,
you work as hard as you have to because you
have to prove to people that you deserve to be here,
because unfortunately, there are just gonna be people who look
at you and don't believe that you belong here. I mean, heck,
I've been doing this now for however many years, and
(08:38):
I still get certain side eyes when people find out
that I work in tech, because what a girl with
blonde hair and big lashes and long nails can't be here,
you know what I mean? There is still a stigma
around people who look like me, So it kind of
becomes a thing where I have to show up not
just because of me, but because the next little black
(09:00):
girl who you want to hire as your intern, You're
gonna be like oh, if I had a bad experience
with Ja May, I don't want to do it. It's
sad that we have to have these conversations, but it's true.
And the reason why I'm laying all of this out
there is because I know that there is someone listening
who is like, yeah, I have to sometimes feel the
weight of the world on my shoulders, even though that
is not fair. The reason why that's important for us
to discuss is because I had no work boundaries. As
(09:22):
a result, I can't say no to the boss because
if I say no, like you said, she or here
is gonna think, oh, she can't do it, or see
this is why we shouldn't have hired her, or see
this is why we can't promote her. You saying no
feels so scary because you think what is on the
other side of that no. And throughout my career I
(09:42):
always worked multiple jobs where I just did not have
a work life boundary. There was no such things as
a work life balance. Like balance was not in my
curriculum of knowledge throughout my twenties, and so it wasn't
until I got older, and I would say older, like
into like my late twenties, where all of the long
(10:05):
nights in the early mornings had started to take a
toll on me physically. I got really, really sick my
senior year in college. That put me on a lot
of medications that, honestly, even ten plus years later, where
you are still solving for with doctors. And I say
that because stress will do so much to your body.
And I often think had I established stronger work boundaries
(10:29):
earlier in my career, how much would I have saved
myself the heartache of the stress later. So this is
why this conversation is really important to me, because now
is the time for you to set the boundary and
to hold yourself to it, but more importantly, hold others
to it. Because one thing I have learned is that
people will test that boundary. They will dip their toe
(10:51):
in that pool to see if it is a kiddie
pool or if it is a deep tank for a shark.
And the thing is the only person who can purn
c meate that boundary is you. So if other people
are violating that boundary, it's because you're not enforcing it enough.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So we know boundaries at work are important, But what
kind of boundaries can we set and how do we
go about doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's next.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
After the break, we're back and talking even more about boundaries,
which can be so hard to set, especially when you're
just starting out, whether you're a new grad or you're
(11:36):
changing jobs. Early on, you feel this need just to
prove yourself to everyone, so you take on more and
more responsibilities and sometimes it just comes to a head,
like it did in my situation. But setting boundaries at work,
it's not even important. It is absolutely crucial, it.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Is super crucial. It is the most crucialists of the crucialsts.
So I want us to bring in our listener question
for the week. This is Dear Work Bestie, where we
answer the questions that you all send us. This week's
question comes from Carly in New Jersey, who asks.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
So, I've been at my new job a little over
a year, and when I left my old job, I
made a goal for myself that when I started this
new position, I was going to start setting more boundaries
for myself to create a better work life balance. But
I'm still struggling with saying no when I don't have
the bandwidth and I don't have the capacity to take
(12:33):
on any more deliverables. How do you decide when something
is worth saying no to, and how do you professionally
communicate that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I love that Carly started this new job with the
goal of setting better boundaries, because I think the first
step is recognizing that's something you need to address. And
she mentions deliverables, which I just want to clarify in
case you're not familiar with the term. A deliverable is
something that you're handing in or providing, maybe to your
manager or team. So a deliverable could be like a
(13:03):
slide deck, which is basically a fancy term for like
a power point presentation.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
A report, right presentation, Yeah, just something that you actually
have to turn in, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I think that's so important is first understanding what can
I even set a boundary around. And I think it's
also really important to understand the effects of taking on
too much, which in Carly's situation, she's saying, you know,
I don't have the bandwidth and capacity to take on
more deliverables. And you know, I remember this conversation I
once had with an organizational psychologist for a newsletter article
(13:34):
I was writing, and she was sharing the negative effects
of overworking, which I think so many of us experience
and don't even recognize while it's happening, And she said,
you know, it's trouble concentrating, poor quality of sleep, You're
more irritable, you have less patience, you have headaches, and
all these symptoms then impact our performance. And I totally
(13:58):
relate to this because at one point where I was
really stressed at work, I had a lot on my plate.
I remember I would I talk to my mom every day.
I love you, Mom, and she would call me and
I would be so irritable on the phone and I
would always have to text her after and be like, hey,
I'm so sorry, like it was just a busy day,
and I really like probably shouldn't have taken the phone
call because I was just like so mentally tapped out.
(14:21):
So it actually impacts your personal life. Oh absolutely, That's
the reason why these boundaries are so important. I'm wondering,
from your own experience, what kind of boundaries have you sat? Like,
what's even possible?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Ooh?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I love this because everyone's situation is so different, right,
So I like to think of boundaries well, one as expectations, Right,
what are people's expectations of how you're going to show up?
So I really want everyone to first of all, remember
that there are different types of boundaries that you can enforce.
So I like to break this down into two different
big buckets. The first one is physical, and yes I
(14:56):
am actually speaking both physically, like back up, get why
are you so close to me? Like you are? Okay?
To enforce that hand holding, touching, you know, high fiving, hugging.
You know, some people like to greet people in the
morning with a hug. Some people don't want to be
touched and maybe you don't want to be touched hers.
Just so I know, it really depends on the day.
(15:19):
You'll see it in my eyes what I'm feeling. But
like you know, there's the physical. But also when I
say physical, I mean other technical things of the job.
So for instance, sometimes you can determine what your hours
are working, right, maybe you are a nine to five
corporate baddy, maybe you might be a ten to six.
Maybe you might you know, be taking a class in
(15:41):
the middle of the day so you make up those
hours later on. Those are conversations that you would want
to have with your manager. Another thing that I think
is really important are things like calendars. Right, I am
a girl, it has to be on the calendar, A
minimum of twenty four hours in advance. If you throw
something on my unless it's like an emergency, please do
not do same day things on my calendar, because by
then I have already mapped out my day and I
(16:03):
already know how my day is gonna flow, and throwing
on a fifteen twenty thirty minute out of nowhere, first
of all, can be varying anxiety inducing.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you also can control your calendar and enforcing how
people work with that, keeping it up to date, and
making sure that people put it on the calendar. Another
thing that I think is really important, especially now that
a lot of people are working remotely, is camera on
and off. Baby, Like if there there might be a
day of the week you just don't want to have
your camera on, you know, or maybe after a certain
(16:34):
time or before a certain time. So those are a
couple of examples of physical boundaries, right, But then you
also have mental boundaries, and I think these are the
ones that people really think about when we talk about
enforcing them. These are different things like choosing not to
be part of certain discussions. Right. It can be as
lighthearted as not wanting to gossip about fellow people in
(16:55):
the office and you don't want to be involved in
that all the way to the most hearty conversations that
talk about race. You know, I will never forget when
I was working in media a couple of years ago
when George Floyd was murdered and a lot of people
wanted to have a lot of discussions on email and
(17:16):
slack and make it and bring what was happening in
our personal lives to work, and I said, there has
to be an escape for me because I feel this
very very deeply. So no, I do not want to
be added to the slack thread. No, I am not
about to educate other people on what books they need
to read to learn more about the black experience. I
had a right then to step away from that discussion,
(17:38):
and you have the right to to step away from
certain discussions that trigger you that you don't feel comfortable with.
And here's the thing that I want to emphasize. It
does not matter why you say no to that. You
do not have to justify nor explain to people. It
could just be something that you just really don't want
to be a part of it. I don't want to
be part of this mess, you know, So you are
okay to say no other things, is like understanding what
(18:00):
your own capabilities are. There are sometimes, Gianna, where the
anxiety wins for me and Sam, the anxiety wins, And
those are the days I have to have a real
heart tart conversation with my manager or with my team
or with the people who I'm working on projects with,
and I'm just being like, look, guys, I'm not operating
(18:21):
at one hundred today. This is what I can give.
How can we pivot and navigate? And those are conversations
that you have to have, right And so I definitely
think that when we think about boundaries, think about the
physical boundaries that you would want to enforce, but really
take a step and think about those mental boundaries.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
But then, of course it comes to communicating it. And
you mentioned this before, when it comes to having that
conversation with your manager. And when I was speaking to
this organizational psychologist, she said to me, Jianna, no is
a complete sentence, and I was like, You're so right
about that. But in the workplace where there are power dynamics,
especially when you're early in your career, I think giving
(19:01):
context can be really helpful and I think it makes
you feel more comfortable saying no. Ultimately, though, and she
mentioned this, it comes down to the psychological safety you
feel with your colleagues or your manager. So do you
feel comfortable sharing with your new manager that you're overloaded?
Let's say you did that was my experience, you know,
when I made that early mistake at work.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You can say.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Something like, Hey, I'm trying to maintain the quality of
my work. Here's what I've done to already organize myself. Together,
can we decide the best way to handle my workload?
If this new task you're giving me is a top priority,
you are able to then prioritize your tasks and come
together to make a plan moving forward. The reality is,
(19:44):
though everyone might not feel comfortable with their manager or
might think, you know, I can't say no to this person.
So I think it can be helpful in those situations
to find allies. Right, So you and I are working
on a podcast right now together. Let's say I'm totally
work with something outside of this, and we have a task,
we have a deadline for the podcast. Maybe I come
(20:05):
to you and I'm like, hey, Jamay, can I pass
this off to you? I know I said I would
do it, but I'm just totally overworked right now, and
you're like, oh, gee, totally got you. I'll take it.
So then I could go to my manager and be like, hey,
for that project I'm working on with Jamay, she mentioned
she has the bandwidth to actually take on that task,
so I'm going to pass, you know, some of those
duties off to her so I can prioritize what you're
(20:26):
now giving me. Right, So you're coming in already with
an action plan and being like they can say you know, okay,
that sounds great, or you can end that with like,
what do you think about this? Right, so they could
be like, oh, that sounds great, or you know, maybe
we could do X, Y and Z. But it opens
that conversation with somebody who you might not feel comfortable
having that conversation with in the first place. But ultimately,
(20:48):
it's about, you know, identifying what is the must have
work I need to get done and what is the
nice to have stuff that I can maybe move further
down my to do list. And this is literally why
I started using Google doc with my to do list,
so I could physically move around my tasks into later
in the week. Because my physical planner, like I love
to write down I have like a thousand notebooks was
(21:10):
getting so messy for me scribbling out things I didn't
get to But now because it's digital, I get to
just move things around and it's so beautiful and organized.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I'm gonna need a copy yea with template with.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Little like checkboxes that cross it out. Oh, it's so satisfying.
But you have to build a boundary system that has
some flex in it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah. And I really love the verbiage that you provided
that people can use, mostly because I think for a
lot of people, when we say no, we're terrified about
the assumption that we just cannot physically do it, like
that there's something incompetent about us that is the reason
why we are not able to achieve whatever. And that
(21:52):
can be very terrifying when you're trying to talk to
a manager because you don't want them to get that
as the perception of you. So I like the verbage
you use because it's actually saying, invite your manager to
be a partner with you in this. And then lastly,
I think it's really important here for you to be
compassionate towards yourself. Right, you got to give yourself grease
(22:14):
because you are going to beat yourself up trying to
live up to this unrealistic standard of work excellence that
you have in your mind. And I get it. You
are starting out in your career. You are just starting out.
You really want to prove yourself. But baby, I promise you,
in five ten years, you will not care that one
extra assignment that you stayed up all night working on
(22:36):
is not gonna get you the promotion more than likely not.
And I guarantee you when you are in your late
twenties early thirties, you were gonna look back. You're not
even gonna remember all the stuff that you did. So
I always like to say, like, is this going to
matter in a year from now? The reality is most
things don't. So set the boundary. Stand for a minute
and be compassionate towards yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
We're gonna take a short break. We've still got a
lot more to say about boundaries. And also we're gonna
talk about why you should maybe think twice about wearing
white shorts in the office. That's next. Okay, guys, So
(23:24):
you guys have heard us talk to Carly about her situation.
But hopefully you all are walking away with actionable, tangible
feelings about how to enforce your boundaries. A couple of
things that I am taking away from this conversation is
that as hard as boundaries are, they are absolutely necessary.
(23:45):
And the beautiful thing about a boundary is that you
can determine today what your boundary is, and it can
shift and pivot and move, and it's flexible and you
always have the right to change that boundary. Another thing
that I think is really important is that it's okay
to start small, right Like your work boundary doesn't have
to be this big ginormous thing, like I'm only gonna
(24:06):
work here and I need a trailer and a diva,
and like you don't have to do all that. You
can start even something as small as just like when
you're gonna respond to emails or navigating when deadlines are
going to hit, or what you need to do during
your day. And the beautiful thing about a boundaries that
it doesn't just apply to your work life. You can
do it with family, you can do it with friends.
(24:26):
I encourage you to do it with them and practice
with people who you love. Gianna, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I love that. I love that you mentioned small boundaries
to start. I think that's so important. A few things
I'm taking away are from what you said, which is
the more upfront you are about your boundaries and the
earlier on you set them, the better off you'll be
in the long run, because your career is long. It's
a long time, so you will truly burn out multiple
times if you don't set those boundaries. I think what
(24:54):
I'm still learning, which I'm hoping to improve, is when
you set a boundary, you gotta stick to it for yourself.
Like I have a lot of flex in my own
boundaries now, and you were saying, you know, when you
set them, enforce them and communicate them. So I think
that's something I'm taking away is that you have the
power one to say no, but also to enforce those
(25:14):
boundaries after the fact.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, and I hate to be that person, but I'm
gonna be honest with you all besties, people will try
to play you, and it's just human nature, but people
will try to play you. So if you have a boundary,
Let's say your boundary is I don't respond to emails
after five pm. Someone is gonna send you that six
pm email and if you respond, you have just showed them.
(25:38):
Oh I will actually respond, So now your boundary is
not enforceable. So the day that you really need it
to be five, nobody is gonna respect you. You gotta
have respect in these streets, stand up, talk, straightening it back.
That's me, Yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But I'm working on it, I promise. Okay, jam I
think it's time we switch it up. Oh, we are
going to move into our next segment, which is called
miss Understood the assignment. This is where we talk about
some of our biggest work fails, through all of them,
from those embarrassing cringe moments to our most humbling moments
(26:12):
at work, and what we've learned from those experiences. Jamay,
I think you've got a story for us this week.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh, I absolutely do. I'm ready, and honestly, the story
is top of mind because it is warm right now,
and it's hot. It is hot, hot, hot, and I
have been outside and I've been seeing a lot of
people and really nice summer outfits, and it reminded me
of the trauma that I faced. So let me tell you,
Giana of the time, Jamay war White.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Short no office.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So years ago I started working on a fashion magazine,
which makes it all the worse. Right like this, is
like a high profile women's lifestyle magazine still in its
very print and digital era. I was working in the
fashion department and so I remember wearing this outfit to work.
I was probably like on my it was like week
(27:05):
one and a half, right, so like long enough that
the girls knew who I was, but not long enough
that they knew I was to that girl, you know
what I mean. So I wore this blue and white
striped shirt and these white linen shorts. I thought I
was the cutest thing since slice bread Baby. Okay, the
waist he probably were okay, yeah, the booty was sitting
(27:27):
like everything was good. Okay. So we were at lunch
and essentially there was like a outdoor area because it
sat over the what is the Hudson that you can
see across and look to Jersey. I don't know you're
a Jersey in Yeah, yeah, because the Hudson.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So I went and got my lunch and then I
went and sat outside, and outside seating was like wood.
So I sat down and I immediately felt something wet
underneath me. So I stood up and I looked, and
I didn't see anything. So I was like, okay, that's
kind of weird. Maybe you know, I just imagined it
in my head.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Go Throughout the rest of the day, I'm walking the hallways,
I'm switching. I'm feeling like fraying fine up in here, okay,
And people are like looking at me, and I'm like, yeah,
because I'm that girl. I'm that girl. I'm that girl.
Sleigh slay Sleigh like vote vote vote, Gianna. It was
the end of the day. Oh, it was like after
six pm, and I was like, okay, I gotta go
(28:21):
to the bathroom. For whatever reason that day, I just,
oh my God, to use the bathroom. I don't know,
I don't know what was going on. I went to
the bathroom and I did like last looks. As I
was leaving out, I turned around and on the back
of these white linen shorts was a reddish brown liquid
stain that made it look like period blood. I don't
(28:45):
know what I sat on in the wood. I don't
know if it was the water in the wood combined
and made like a wood baby, cor, I don't know
what it was.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
How did you not see that when he stood up,
there's nothing on the bend. There was nothing on the
pen they played you. I was traumatized and guys, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
God, I'm emotional, guys, because it was summertime, so I
don't have a jacket or a sweater or anything to
put around me. I am just here in my white
shorts at a fashion magazine with what looks like period blood.
And oh god, I was so trying to have a question.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Have you ever worn white shorts?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Never? Never? And anyone who wears them, I look at
you with contempt in my heart. I am so sorry.
I can't wear white anything anymore. I just like white shirts,
white pants, the only thing white sneakers, that is it?
Anything else? I am too traumatized by it. It Oh
my gosh. But okay, I think what hurt me the worst,
(29:50):
because obviously I want to give you guys a lesson
here in my lesson can't be don't wear white shirts.
I can't be that petty. But what hurt me the
worst was that there were a lot of women right
on the floor working there, whether it was the fashion
director or the interns or the editors, and not a
(30:10):
single person just pulled me aside and said, hey, check
your shorts. And I have been in situations where I've
looked out for other women because you know, it's naturally,
you know, it's natural, you know, and they're always.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
So grateful, and no one's like, why are you looking
at me?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
No one's being like, oh well, no, let me rock,
Like no, that way right, you know, a fashion statement
like no please, Like I was so hurt that nobody
looked out for me. And then naturally I had to
do the walk of shame home because I had to
ride the train home because I was going back to Brooklyn.
And here I am in these pants that I am
(30:45):
just terrified that everyone in the world is seeing. So
a couple of lessons here, like in truth once now
that my blood is kind of cooling down, a couple
of lessons here is, First of all, if you were
the person who sees something say something, you don't know
what's going on. And I know, sometimes like we have
bystander mentality, which is a really scary thing, right where
(31:09):
we see things and we don't say things, but you
really don't know how. Maybe someone just doesn't have the
awareness or in a situation like mine, it was just
a genuine accident, just an evil fate of the gods
that just did this to me. But like, either way, sorry,
getting off my eyes twitching again, like just say something right,
because you really will help someone out. Also, a lesson
(31:31):
that I learned then is to always carry something with you,
whether either that or be within close proximity to a
store that you can go out and run out and
buy something. I mean, at that time, I didn't have
the funds to do it, so I would definitely say
carrying a blazer or a jacket, a card again, something
that you can wrap around your waist in case you
have an accident down there. I know people are gonna
(31:53):
think this is controversial, but I really do believe in
also bringing extra undergarments and storing them somewhere because you
just never know, Like we never know what's going to happen,
but you always want to have something in case you
have to pivot or navigate. Imagine if I had to
report to the CEO that day I had to do
a presentation.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Gianna, No, I can't. If you haven't been there already,
it probably will happen at some point. I was there
a few weeks ago, running out on my lunch hour
to the nearest store to buy something, like its naturally happens,
it's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Natural and it happens. And I mean, obviously I felt
a lot of shame in that moment, which you know
I should not have. But I mean, naturally, it's it's
normal to feel guilty. But what I will say is
that if you all plan in advance, don't be like
you may. If you want to wear white or any
other color in the office, just make sure you always
have a backup outfit. Okay, I certainly misunderstood the assignment.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Thank you for reliving that trauma. I know that was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm going to talk to my therapist now.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
All right, guys, that's all from us to speak. Thanks
so much. Thank for listening.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yes, thank you. And look, you guys are listening to us,
which clearly means that you like me and Gianna. So
we might as well make this thing official. Okay, make
sure that you give us a five star rating and
review wherever you are listening to this podcast, but also
don't forget to follow the podcast so that you don't
miss a future episode.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And don't forget we also have a newsletter that you
can subscribe to for even more content, all those exclusive
behind the scenes cuts. You can find the link to
that in the show description and on my LinkedIn profile.
It's called you Guessed it, Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And while you're on LinkedIn, you might as well go
on and get connected with me and g and send
us your question. We want to hear them, the burning,
the itchy, the weird stream I mean, oh goay, my
itch depending on. But we'll see information on how you
can do that is in the show description. Listen to me.
It is in the show description. Because y'all gonna be like,
(33:53):
we couldn't find you. Look in the show description.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
All right, we'll see you back here next week. Remember
we have always got your back, so if something comes
up in the meantime, Let's Talk offline. I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay driving.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinness is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki
Etore We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm,
and Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content,
Dave Pond is head of news Production, Courtney Cook is
Head of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor
in chief of LinkedIn.
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not even like five minutes into this conversation with him,
I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant
to be, Like I was not okay. I was really
just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point.
And I realized through the tears that I was just overworked.
I was saying yes to everything. I really wanted to
(00:27):
prove myself and I had too much on my plate
that I was gonna let things slip. And it happened.
From LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. This is Let's Talk Offline,
a show about what it takes to thrive in the
early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity
or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadston. You guys know a word
people do not like to hear, but it is extremely important. No.
It's really hard for a lot of us to say no,
because whether you are just starting out in your or
you've been in your job for a while but you're
trying to get promoted, we all have struggled with saying no.
Trust me, I have certainly been there. You really want
(01:09):
to make a great impression and most importantly, you want
people to know that they can rely on you. But honestly,
saying yes to everything can be super detrimental and at
what cost.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Boundaries are something all of us have, whether that's the
number of tasks we're willing to take on at work
or the conversations we're willing to participate in. You know,
got to protect that social battery. But where a lot
of us trip up is actually enforcing those boundaries. It's
not easy putting your foot down, especially to the boss,
but we're going to show you that there's so much
(01:41):
power in saying no.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So today, you guys, gian and I are going to
talk about workplace boundaries, what stops us from making them,
and how to communicate them with your coworkers. Gianna, boundaries
are super important because they just have so many benefits.
First of all, they help with our overall wellbeing. They
helped protect our mental health, maybe even our physical, emotional,
(02:11):
spiritual health, all the healths is. It also increases our
productivity and contributes to our own personal growth. So I'm
super excited to talk about this because I have a
lot to say. But Jianna, let's start with you. Have
you struggled to set boundaries for yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, how much time do we have? One of my
earliest memories of corporate America, this beautiful world where we work,
was a mistake that I made, my first ever mistake,
which still gives me anxiety to think about. And that
was a result of not enforcing any boundaries. So basically
(02:49):
what happened was when I started my job at LinkedIn,
I desperately wanted to prove myself and I wanted to
build a reputation as somebody who could do multiple things,
like I could wear multiple hats, and I thought that's
how you would be rewarded, right as somebody who can
do a bunch of things. So I thought the more
I took on, the more I would be seen as
(03:11):
a high performer, and really got caught up in the
quantity of my work rather than the quality. And also
at the time, I was on a contract trying to
go full time, so I really was like, I will
do anything to get that offer and make that transition.
So naturally I said yes to every single task that
came my way, and of course the quality of my
(03:34):
work suffered, so that all came to a head when
this one day I made a decision, a very rash decision,
and it was a little bit of a cutting corner
to be totally transparent. I was like, I have so
much on my plate, so like I'm just going to
do this really quickly and move on. And I thought,
you know, this decision was going to be fine. Yeah
(03:56):
it was not. It was not.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It was not fine.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So yeah, all of a sudden, like slacks were going off,
like I had made this big mistake. All these like
higher ups were getting involved. My manager wasn't even online
at the time, like it was like too earlier today,
like it was the start of the day. So I
was hyperventilating, started immediately freaking out and quickly tried to resolve,
(04:22):
you know, the issue at hand. But I realized like, okay,
I had made this really rash decision and this was
a kind of mistake where like they have a post
mortem about it.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You really.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Can just imagine like Gianna's face on a poster guy
and a meeting in a boardroom in and I.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Wasn't even in the most mortal like I was really scared.
But anyway, a post mortem is like when something goes wrong,
you have a meeting to discuss what happened and how
you can you know, do better next time that I
didn't even know those existed. All of a sudden I
saw that get thrown on the calendar for other people.
I was like, oh shoot, what did I do? So
I literally called my mom. I was like, I'm getting fired.
(05:07):
This is the end. But anyway, so that happened, and
then I had a conversation with my manager. I messaged
him and I was like, here's what just happened. Here's
how I helped resolve it, but obviously we need to talk.
So not even like five minutes into this conversation with him,
I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant
to be, Like I was not okay. I was really
(05:28):
just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point.
And in that conversation with him, I realized through the
tears that I was just overworked. I was saying yes
to everything. I really wanted to prove myself and I
had too much on my plate that I was gonna
let things slip. And it happened, right, So, yeah, that
was my first lesson in the importance of having boundaries.
(05:52):
But let me just say it has not gotten easier
saying no. It's something that I think most people struggle with,
especially when you're early in your career. But that was
my first time realizing like, Okay, I not only have
the power to say no, but I need to write
I can't be saying yes to everything.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
HM question, though, why do you think it has not
gotten easier?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I feel like when you're starting out, there's still that
pressure to prove yourself, especially in certain workplaces, like I'm
very fortunate that nobody's like, oh, Gianna's like the young
person and she doesn't know how it is, and she's,
you know, she has to work her way up and
build her reputation. Everyone's very open to ideas here, which
I think is really refreshing. But I think in general,
(06:35):
we feel like, Okay, we're coming in. We don't have experience, right,
we need to show that we're able to do the job,
so that means like not turning things down. It almost
feels like you don't have permission to say no. And
I think once you start doing it, you feel more
comfortable with it. But in the beginning it feels like
it's not even possible, and then yes, you start doing
(06:56):
it and you get more comfortable but it's still nerve
wracking being like, hey, I'm not able to take this
on because you think like they're gonna be like, oh,
she can't handle it, right, Like, oh, Gianna, she's so stressed,
she's so overwork, she can't handle it. Where really, you're
just protecting your mental health.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah. No, everything you said makes a lot of sense.
And I think that when I think about my life,
a lot of the things that you said are reflected
in that. First of all, the idea that you can't
even say no. So when I was thinking about setting
boundaries for myself, I often go back to the first
memory of what my life in corporate America was gonna
look like, and that was me being a young child
(07:32):
and my mother telling me, you are black, you are
a woman, and you might be curvy when you grow up. Okay.
I was a little skinny girl when I was younger
because I was playing athletics. But baby, I got hips now, Okay.
She was like, you are going to show up in
the world and just by the natural order of who
you are, you will have to work two, three, four
times harder than other counterparts of yours. And that stuck
(07:55):
with me because I think from that moment on every
time I got into a work situation, whether it was creative,
whether it was me touring with the dance companies, or
coming to college, or even the jobs I took after school,
I always knew Jamay does not get the privilege of
doing the bare minimum. And it's a sad reality that unfortunately,
(08:16):
a lot of professionals of color in particular or marginalized
communities have to face. But I went into every situation knowing,
you work as hard as you have to because you
have to prove to people that you deserve to be here,
because unfortunately, there are just gonna be people who look
at you and don't believe that you belong here. I mean, heck,
I've been doing this now for however many years, and
(08:38):
I still get certain side eyes when people find out
that I work in tech, because what a girl with
blonde hair and big lashes and long nails can't be here,
you know what I mean? There is still a stigma
around people who look like me, So it kind of
becomes a thing where I have to show up not
just because of me, but because the next little black
(09:00):
girl who you want to hire as your intern, You're
gonna be like oh, if I had a bad experience
with Ja May, I don't want to do it. It's
sad that we have to have these conversations, but it's true.
And the reason why I'm laying all of this out
there is because I know that there is someone listening
who is like, yeah, I have to sometimes feel the
weight of the world on my shoulders, even though that
is not fair. The reason why that's important for us
to discuss is because I had no work boundaries. As
(09:22):
a result, I can't say no to the boss because
if I say no, like you said, she or here
is gonna think, oh, she can't do it, or see
this is why we shouldn't have hired her, or see
this is why we can't promote her. You saying no
feels so scary because you think what is on the
other side of that no. And throughout my career I
(09:42):
always worked multiple jobs where I just did not have
a work life boundary. There was no such things as
a work life balance. Like balance was not in my
curriculum of knowledge throughout my twenties, and so it wasn't
until I got older, and I would say older, like
into like my late twenties, where all of the long
(10:05):
nights in the early mornings had started to take a
toll on me physically. I got really, really sick my
senior year in college. That put me on a lot
of medications that, honestly, even ten plus years later, where
you are still solving for with doctors. And I say
that because stress will do so much to your body.
And I often think had I established stronger work boundaries
(10:29):
earlier in my career, how much would I have saved
myself the heartache of the stress later. So this is
why this conversation is really important to me, because now
is the time for you to set the boundary and
to hold yourself to it, but more importantly, hold others
to it. Because one thing I have learned is that
people will test that boundary. They will dip their toe
(10:51):
in that pool to see if it is a kiddie
pool or if it is a deep tank for a shark.
And the thing is the only person who can purn
c meate that boundary is you. So if other people
are violating that boundary, it's because you're not enforcing it enough.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So we know boundaries at work are important, But what
kind of boundaries can we set and how do we
go about doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's next.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
After the break, we're back and talking even more about boundaries,
which can be so hard to set, especially when you're
just starting out, whether you're a new grad or you're
(11:36):
changing jobs. Early on, you feel this need just to
prove yourself to everyone, so you take on more and
more responsibilities and sometimes it just comes to a head,
like it did in my situation. But setting boundaries at work,
it's not even important. It is absolutely crucial, it.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Is super crucial. It is the most crucialists of the crucialsts.
So I want us to bring in our listener question
for the week. This is Dear Work Bestie, where we
answer the questions that you all send us. This week's
question comes from Carly in New Jersey, who asks.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
So, I've been at my new job a little over
a year, and when I left my old job, I
made a goal for myself that when I started this
new position, I was going to start setting more boundaries
for myself to create a better work life balance. But
I'm still struggling with saying no when I don't have
the bandwidth and I don't have the capacity to take
(12:33):
on any more deliverables. How do you decide when something
is worth saying no to, and how do you professionally
communicate that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I love that Carly started this new job with the
goal of setting better boundaries, because I think the first
step is recognizing that's something you need to address. And
she mentions deliverables, which I just want to clarify in
case you're not familiar with the term. A deliverable is
something that you're handing in or providing, maybe to your
manager or team. So a deliverable could be like a
(13:03):
slide deck, which is basically a fancy term for like
a power point presentation.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
A report, right presentation, Yeah, just something that you actually
have to turn in, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I think that's so important is first understanding what can
I even set a boundary around. And I think it's
also really important to understand the effects of taking on
too much, which in Carly's situation, she's saying, you know,
I don't have the bandwidth and capacity to take on
more deliverables. And you know, I remember this conversation I
once had with an organizational psychologist for a newsletter article
(13:34):
I was writing, and she was sharing the negative effects
of overworking, which I think so many of us experience
and don't even recognize while it's happening, And she said,
you know, it's trouble concentrating, poor quality of sleep, You're
more irritable, you have less patience, you have headaches, and
all these symptoms then impact our performance. And I totally
(13:58):
relate to this because at one point where I was
really stressed at work, I had a lot on my plate.
I remember I would I talk to my mom every day.
I love you, Mom, and she would call me and
I would be so irritable on the phone and I
would always have to text her after and be like, hey,
I'm so sorry, like it was just a busy day,
and I really like probably shouldn't have taken the phone
call because I was just like so mentally tapped out.
(14:21):
So it actually impacts your personal life. Oh absolutely, That's
the reason why these boundaries are so important. I'm wondering,
from your own experience, what kind of boundaries have you sat? Like,
what's even possible?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Ooh?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I love this because everyone's situation is so different, right,
So I like to think of boundaries well, one as expectations, Right,
what are people's expectations of how you're going to show up?
So I really want everyone to first of all, remember
that there are different types of boundaries that you can enforce.
So I like to break this down into two different
big buckets. The first one is physical, and yes I
(14:56):
am actually speaking both physically, like back up, get why
are you so close to me? Like you are? Okay?
To enforce that hand holding, touching, you know, high fiving, hugging.
You know, some people like to greet people in the
morning with a hug. Some people don't want to be
touched and maybe you don't want to be touched hers.
Just so I know, it really depends on the day.
(15:19):
You'll see it in my eyes what I'm feeling. But
like you know, there's the physical. But also when I
say physical, I mean other technical things of the job.
So for instance, sometimes you can determine what your hours
are working, right, maybe you are a nine to five
corporate baddy, maybe you might be a ten to six.
Maybe you might you know, be taking a class in
(15:41):
the middle of the day so you make up those
hours later on. Those are conversations that you would want
to have with your manager. Another thing that I think
is really important are things like calendars. Right, I am
a girl, it has to be on the calendar, A
minimum of twenty four hours in advance. If you throw
something on my unless it's like an emergency, please do
not do same day things on my calendar, because by
then I have already mapped out my day and I
(16:03):
already know how my day is gonna flow, and throwing
on a fifteen twenty thirty minute out of nowhere, first
of all, can be varying anxiety inducing.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you also can control your calendar and enforcing how
people work with that, keeping it up to date, and
making sure that people put it on the calendar. Another
thing that I think is really important, especially now that
a lot of people are working remotely, is camera on
and off. Baby, Like if there there might be a
day of the week you just don't want to have
your camera on, you know, or maybe after a certain
(16:34):
time or before a certain time. So those are a
couple of examples of physical boundaries, right, But then you
also have mental boundaries, and I think these are the
ones that people really think about when we talk about
enforcing them. These are different things like choosing not to
be part of certain discussions. Right. It can be as
lighthearted as not wanting to gossip about fellow people in
(16:55):
the office and you don't want to be involved in
that all the way to the most hearty conversations that
talk about race. You know, I will never forget when
I was working in media a couple of years ago
when George Floyd was murdered and a lot of people
wanted to have a lot of discussions on email and
(17:16):
slack and make it and bring what was happening in
our personal lives to work, and I said, there has
to be an escape for me because I feel this
very very deeply. So no, I do not want to
be added to the slack thread. No, I am not
about to educate other people on what books they need
to read to learn more about the black experience. I
had a right then to step away from that discussion,
(17:38):
and you have the right to to step away from
certain discussions that trigger you that you don't feel comfortable with.
And here's the thing that I want to emphasize. It
does not matter why you say no to that. You
do not have to justify nor explain to people. It
could just be something that you just really don't want
to be a part of it. I don't want to
be part of this mess, you know, So you are
okay to say no other things, is like understanding what
(18:00):
your own capabilities are. There are sometimes, Gianna, where the
anxiety wins for me and Sam, the anxiety wins, And
those are the days I have to have a real
heart tart conversation with my manager or with my team
or with the people who I'm working on projects with,
and I'm just being like, look, guys, I'm not operating
(18:21):
at one hundred today. This is what I can give.
How can we pivot and navigate? And those are conversations
that you have to have, right And so I definitely
think that when we think about boundaries, think about the
physical boundaries that you would want to enforce, but really
take a step and think about those mental boundaries.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
But then, of course it comes to communicating it. And
you mentioned this before, when it comes to having that
conversation with your manager. And when I was speaking to
this organizational psychologist, she said to me, Jianna, no is
a complete sentence, and I was like, You're so right
about that. But in the workplace where there are power dynamics,
especially when you're early in your career, I think giving
(19:01):
context can be really helpful and I think it makes
you feel more comfortable saying no. Ultimately, though, and she
mentioned this, it comes down to the psychological safety you
feel with your colleagues or your manager. So do you
feel comfortable sharing with your new manager that you're overloaded?
Let's say you did that was my experience, you know,
when I made that early mistake at work.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You can say.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Something like, Hey, I'm trying to maintain the quality of
my work. Here's what I've done to already organize myself. Together,
can we decide the best way to handle my workload?
If this new task you're giving me is a top priority,
you are able to then prioritize your tasks and come
together to make a plan moving forward. The reality is,
(19:44):
though everyone might not feel comfortable with their manager or
might think, you know, I can't say no to this person.
So I think it can be helpful in those situations
to find allies. Right, So you and I are working
on a podcast right now together. Let's say I'm totally
work with something outside of this, and we have a task,
we have a deadline for the podcast. Maybe I come
(20:05):
to you and I'm like, hey, Jamay, can I pass
this off to you? I know I said I would
do it, but I'm just totally overworked right now, and
you're like, oh, gee, totally got you. I'll take it.
So then I could go to my manager and be like, hey,
for that project I'm working on with Jamay, she mentioned
she has the bandwidth to actually take on that task,
so I'm going to pass, you know, some of those
duties off to her so I can prioritize what you're
(20:26):
now giving me. Right, So you're coming in already with
an action plan and being like they can say you know, okay,
that sounds great, or you can end that with like,
what do you think about this? Right, so they could
be like, oh, that sounds great, or you know, maybe
we could do X, Y and Z. But it opens
that conversation with somebody who you might not feel comfortable
having that conversation with in the first place. But ultimately,
(20:48):
it's about, you know, identifying what is the must have
work I need to get done and what is the
nice to have stuff that I can maybe move further
down my to do list. And this is literally why
I started using Google doc with my to do list,
so I could physically move around my tasks into later
in the week. Because my physical planner, like I love
to write down I have like a thousand notebooks was
(21:10):
getting so messy for me scribbling out things I didn't
get to But now because it's digital, I get to
just move things around and it's so beautiful and organized.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I'm gonna need a copy yea with template with.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Little like checkboxes that cross it out. Oh, it's so satisfying.
But you have to build a boundary system that has
some flex in it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah. And I really love the verbiage that you provided
that people can use, mostly because I think for a
lot of people, when we say no, we're terrified about
the assumption that we just cannot physically do it, like
that there's something incompetent about us that is the reason
why we are not able to achieve whatever. And that
(21:52):
can be very terrifying when you're trying to talk to
a manager because you don't want them to get that
as the perception of you. So I like the verbage
you use because it's actually saying, invite your manager to
be a partner with you in this. And then lastly,
I think it's really important here for you to be
compassionate towards yourself. Right, you got to give yourself grease
(22:14):
because you are going to beat yourself up trying to
live up to this unrealistic standard of work excellence that
you have in your mind. And I get it. You
are starting out in your career. You are just starting out.
You really want to prove yourself. But baby, I promise you,
in five ten years, you will not care that one
extra assignment that you stayed up all night working on
(22:36):
is not gonna get you the promotion more than likely not.
And I guarantee you when you are in your late
twenties early thirties, you were gonna look back. You're not
even gonna remember all the stuff that you did. So
I always like to say, like, is this going to
matter in a year from now? The reality is most
things don't. So set the boundary. Stand for a minute
and be compassionate towards yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
We're gonna take a short break. We've still got a
lot more to say about boundaries. And also we're gonna
talk about why you should maybe think twice about wearing
white shorts in the office. That's next. Okay, guys, So
(23:24):
you guys have heard us talk to Carly about her situation.
But hopefully you all are walking away with actionable, tangible
feelings about how to enforce your boundaries. A couple of
things that I am taking away from this conversation is
that as hard as boundaries are, they are absolutely necessary.
(23:45):
And the beautiful thing about a boundary is that you
can determine today what your boundary is, and it can
shift and pivot and move, and it's flexible and you
always have the right to change that boundary. Another thing
that I think is really important is that it's okay
to start small, right Like your work boundary doesn't have
to be this big ginormous thing, like I'm only gonna
(24:06):
work here and I need a trailer and a diva,
and like you don't have to do all that. You
can start even something as small as just like when
you're gonna respond to emails or navigating when deadlines are
going to hit, or what you need to do during
your day. And the beautiful thing about a boundaries that
it doesn't just apply to your work life. You can
do it with family, you can do it with friends.
(24:26):
I encourage you to do it with them and practice
with people who you love. Gianna, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I love that. I love that you mentioned small boundaries
to start. I think that's so important. A few things
I'm taking away are from what you said, which is
the more upfront you are about your boundaries and the
earlier on you set them, the better off you'll be
in the long run, because your career is long. It's
a long time, so you will truly burn out multiple
times if you don't set those boundaries. I think what
(24:54):
I'm still learning, which I'm hoping to improve, is when
you set a boundary, you gotta stick to it for yourself.
Like I have a lot of flex in my own
boundaries now, and you were saying, you know, when you
set them, enforce them and communicate them. So I think
that's something I'm taking away is that you have the
power one to say no, but also to enforce those
(25:14):
boundaries after the fact.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, and I hate to be that person, but I'm
gonna be honest with you all besties, people will try
to play you, and it's just human nature, but people
will try to play you. So if you have a boundary,
Let's say your boundary is I don't respond to emails
after five pm. Someone is gonna send you that six
pm email and if you respond, you have just showed them.
(25:38):
Oh I will actually respond, So now your boundary is
not enforceable. So the day that you really need it
to be five, nobody is gonna respect you. You gotta
have respect in these streets, stand up, talk, straightening it back.
That's me, Yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But I'm working on it, I promise. Okay, jam I
think it's time we switch it up. Oh, we are
going to move into our next segment, which is called
miss Understood the assignment. This is where we talk about
some of our biggest work fails, through all of them,
from those embarrassing cringe moments to our most humbling moments
(26:12):
at work, and what we've learned from those experiences. Jamay,
I think you've got a story for us this week.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh, I absolutely do. I'm ready, and honestly, the story
is top of mind because it is warm right now,
and it's hot. It is hot, hot, hot, and I
have been outside and I've been seeing a lot of
people and really nice summer outfits, and it reminded me
of the trauma that I faced. So let me tell you,
Giana of the time, Jamay war White.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Short no office.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So years ago I started working on a fashion magazine,
which makes it all the worse. Right like this, is
like a high profile women's lifestyle magazine still in its
very print and digital era. I was working in the
fashion department and so I remember wearing this outfit to work.
I was probably like on my it was like week
(27:05):
one and a half, right, so like long enough that
the girls knew who I was, but not long enough
that they knew I was to that girl, you know
what I mean. So I wore this blue and white
striped shirt and these white linen shorts. I thought I
was the cutest thing since slice bread Baby. Okay, the
waist he probably were okay, yeah, the booty was sitting
(27:27):
like everything was good. Okay. So we were at lunch
and essentially there was like a outdoor area because it
sat over the what is the Hudson that you can
see across and look to Jersey. I don't know you're
a Jersey in Yeah, yeah, because the Hudson.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So I went and got my lunch and then I
went and sat outside, and outside seating was like wood.
So I sat down and I immediately felt something wet
underneath me. So I stood up and I looked, and
I didn't see anything. So I was like, okay, that's
kind of weird. Maybe you know, I just imagined it
in my head.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Go Throughout the rest of the day, I'm walking the hallways,
I'm switching. I'm feeling like fraying fine up in here, okay,
And people are like looking at me, and I'm like, yeah,
because I'm that girl. I'm that girl. I'm that girl.
Sleigh slay Sleigh like vote vote vote, Gianna. It was
the end of the day. Oh, it was like after
six pm, and I was like, okay, I gotta go
(28:21):
to the bathroom. For whatever reason that day, I just,
oh my God, to use the bathroom. I don't know,
I don't know what was going on. I went to
the bathroom and I did like last looks. As I
was leaving out, I turned around and on the back
of these white linen shorts was a reddish brown liquid
stain that made it look like period blood. I don't
(28:45):
know what I sat on in the wood. I don't
know if it was the water in the wood combined
and made like a wood baby, cor, I don't know
what it was.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
How did you not see that when he stood up,
there's nothing on the bend. There was nothing on the
pen they played you. I was traumatized and guys, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
God, I'm emotional, guys, because it was summertime, so I
don't have a jacket or a sweater or anything to
put around me. I am just here in my white
shorts at a fashion magazine with what looks like period blood.
And oh god, I was so trying to have a question.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Have you ever worn white shorts?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Never? Never? And anyone who wears them, I look at
you with contempt in my heart. I am so sorry.
I can't wear white anything anymore. I just like white shirts,
white pants, the only thing white sneakers, that is it?
Anything else? I am too traumatized by it. It Oh
my gosh. But okay, I think what hurt me the worst,
(29:50):
because obviously I want to give you guys a lesson
here in my lesson can't be don't wear white shirts.
I can't be that petty. But what hurt me the
worst was that there were a lot of women right
on the floor working there, whether it was the fashion
director or the interns or the editors, and not a
(30:10):
single person just pulled me aside and said, hey, check
your shorts. And I have been in situations where I've
looked out for other women because you know, it's naturally,
you know, it's natural, you know, and they're always.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
So grateful, and no one's like, why are you looking
at me?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
No one's being like, oh well, no, let me rock,
Like no, that way right, you know, a fashion statement
like no please, Like I was so hurt that nobody
looked out for me. And then naturally I had to
do the walk of shame home because I had to
ride the train home because I was going back to Brooklyn.
And here I am in these pants that I am
(30:45):
just terrified that everyone in the world is seeing. So
a couple of lessons here, like in truth once now
that my blood is kind of cooling down, a couple
of lessons here is, First of all, if you were
the person who sees something say something, you don't know
what's going on. And I know, sometimes like we have
bystander mentality, which is a really scary thing, right where
(31:09):
we see things and we don't say things, but you
really don't know how. Maybe someone just doesn't have the
awareness or in a situation like mine, it was just
a genuine accident, just an evil fate of the gods
that just did this to me. But like, either way, sorry,
getting off my eyes twitching again, like just say something right,
because you really will help someone out. Also, a lesson
(31:31):
that I learned then is to always carry something with you,
whether either that or be within close proximity to a
store that you can go out and run out and
buy something. I mean, at that time, I didn't have
the funds to do it, so I would definitely say
carrying a blazer or a jacket, a card again, something
that you can wrap around your waist in case you
have an accident down there. I know people are gonna
(31:53):
think this is controversial, but I really do believe in
also bringing extra undergarments and storing them somewhere because you
just never know, Like we never know what's going to happen,
but you always want to have something in case you
have to pivot or navigate. Imagine if I had to
report to the CEO that day I had to do
a presentation.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Gianna, No, I can't. If you haven't been there already,
it probably will happen at some point. I was there
a few weeks ago, running out on my lunch hour
to the nearest store to buy something, like its naturally happens,
it's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Natural and it happens. And I mean, obviously I felt
a lot of shame in that moment, which you know
I should not have. But I mean, naturally, it's it's
normal to feel guilty. But what I will say is
that if you all plan in advance, don't be like
you may. If you want to wear white or any
other color in the office, just make sure you always
have a backup outfit. Okay, I certainly misunderstood the assignment.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Thank you for reliving that trauma. I know that was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm going to talk to my therapist now.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
All right, guys, that's all from us to speak. Thanks
so much. Thank for listening.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yes, thank you. And look, you guys are listening to us,
which clearly means that you like me and Gianna. So
we might as well make this thing official. Okay, make
sure that you give us a five star rating and
review wherever you are listening to this podcast, but also
don't forget to follow the podcast so that you don't
miss a future episode.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And don't forget we also have a newsletter that you
can subscribe to for even more content, all those exclusive
behind the scenes cuts. You can find the link to
that in the show description and on my LinkedIn profile.
It's called you Guessed it, Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And while you're on LinkedIn, you might as well go
on and get connected with me and g and send
us your question. We want to hear them, the burning,
the itchy, the weird stream I mean, oh goay, my
itch depending on. But we'll see information on how you
can do that is in the show description. Listen to me.
It is in the show description. Because y'all gonna be like,
(33:53):
we couldn't find you. Look in the show description.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
All right, we'll see you back here next week. Remember
we have always got your back, so if something comes
up in the meantime, Let's Talk offline. I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay driving.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinness is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki
Etore We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm,
and Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content,
Dave Pond is head of news Production, Courtney Cook is
Head of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor
in chief of LinkedIn.
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