October 22, 2024 • 39 mins
9 in 10 Gen Z professionals say they experience social anxiety at work. Think about it: a lot of new grads are entering the office for the first time, going to their first networking events, and learning how to make small talk at the watercooler. It’s a lot. In this episode, Gianna and Jamé chat with clinical psychologist Dr. Fallon Goodman about how to overcome that anxiety and succeed in social interactions at work.
Do you have any burning questions about work? We want to hear them! You can email us your questions at letstalkoffline@linkedin.com.
And thank you to Dr. Fallon Goodman for joining us this week! Follow Dr. Goodman on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/fallon-goodman-8a0133259/).
For more, follow Gianna (http://linkedin.com/in/giannaprudente) and Jamé (http://linkedin.com/in/jamejackson) on LinkedIn and subscribe to Gianna’s weekly newsletter: https://linkedin.com/letstalkoffline.
Credits
Gianna Prudente - Co-host, Early Career Development Editor, LinkedIn
Jamé Jackson - Co-host, Community Manager, LinkedIn
Sabrina Fang - Producer, Western Sound
Maya Pope-Chappell - Director of Content & Audience Development, LinkedIn
Jessi Hempel - Chief Content Officer, LinkedIn
Savannah Wright - Senior Producer, Western Sound
Sarah Dealy - Associate Producer, Western Sound
Alex MacInnis - Engineer, Western Sound
Courtney Coupe - Head of Original Programming, LinkedIn
Dan Roth - Editor in Chief, LinkedIn
Ben Adair - Executive Producer, Western Sound
Katrina Norvell - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
Nikke Ettore - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
After larger events, whether it even be like hanging out
with friends or a networking event whatever, I'm a big
time spiraler, like I will sit there and ruminate on
you know, what did I say? What did I not say?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You know?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Was I too casual? I feel like sometimes because the
lines between like personal professional life can be blurry. I
speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a professional setting,
and I'm like, oof, is that too mud? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh, I live rent free in my hedge e men, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Exacting saying something you know I wish.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
From LinkedIn News and i Heeart podcasts, this is Let's
Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in their early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or sleep.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm Janna Prdente and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadson to me
at your career, guys, listen, you're gonna have to put
yourself out there and build connections. Do we have to?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
But I also understand that that can fire up a
lot of feelings of social anxiety. I mean, you're stepping
outside your comfort zone. You're entering unfamiliar social situations and
you're probably meeting a whole bunch of new people. You're
making a lot of small talk, which is gross, and
you're hoping that you don't say something super awkward or
even cringe.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh yes, I can so relate to this. I seriously
need more than two hands and maybe even two feet
to count how many times I've backed out of social
situations like a networking event because I was too anxious,
Like I got that pit in my stomach and I
was like, nope, that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Even day to.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Day, I experience social anxiety, like when I'm at the office.
And now, if you can relate, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I see you, I feel you.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're gonna be talking about ways you can manage those
anxious feelings, both in and out of the workplace.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
On today's episode, so Gianna personal question Oka. On a
scale of one to ten, how often do you experience
social anxiety? God? How often? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I'm probably like at a six or a seven.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh God, cortisol levels right now, they are my blood
work and they came that high. Well, look, you know, honestly,
you are in good company. A lot of people have
anxious moments. I mean, and it really doesn't matter if
you're an introvert or extrovert. It's just a human feeling.
And I think particularly based upon where you live, your demographics,
(02:31):
your jobs, those all can add into it. And so really,
when it comes to your career, you're going to be
in a lot of social situations where you might feel
socially anxious. And I mean, we're gonna be talking about
that today, which I'm super excited about. But before we do, Gion,
I think it's super important for us to sort of
set the level playing field here. I just want to
give a quick disclaimer to y'all. The Geanna and I
(02:55):
we might be able to self diagnose ourselves when we
see things online. We might look at WebMD every once
in a while, I feel like I'm dying, but I
want to remind you all we are not mental health
professionals of any kind. Okay. We are literally just two
anxious girlies trying our best, struggling and who are having
hard conversations. Okay, So I just want to make sure
(03:17):
we are aware of that, because you know, we're gonna
be talking a lot today about our own mental health,
our own social anxious anxiety struggles, and we're going to
be giving tips to help you all, but I also
want to say, if you need help, that is totally fine,
certainly speak to a mental health professional. Later in the show,
we're actually going to be talking to clinical psychologists doctor
(03:38):
Follen Goodman about how to manage those feelings of social anxiety.
So honestly I look forward to that. But before then, gee,
you've actually reported on an anxiety among gen Zers. What
is that all about?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I have so when I started coming back to the office,
my social anxiety was peaking, especially after the pandemic. I
feel like a lot of us forgot how to socialize
when we were in isolation. You know, I wrote an
article last year on this topic because I had seen
a stat that said nine to ten gen Zers experienced
social anxiety, which I thought was insane. That's a staggering
(04:12):
stat And at the time, reporting on it felt really
timely and still does because of all these return to
office mandates, and over the last two years, gen Z
has been entering the office for the first time ever,
and when that happens, many of us feel like we
need to relearn to socialize. And I know, I certainly
felt that way, so I have reported on it before,
largely because of my own personal struggles with social anxiety.
(04:36):
I've always been a socially anxious, girally Like in high school,
I was a homebody. I didn't really like, you know,
go to events or like hang out with people in
big social groups because it just gave me a lot
of anxiety. And I also wasn't like actually diagnosed with
general anxiety until after high school. So at the time
(04:56):
I was just like, yeah, I'm I don't know what's
going on, but I don't something right, but I don't
know what, but yeah, I still get a lot of anxiety,
you know, in social you know, everyday interactions, especially when
it comes to events that are in more of a
professional context like a networking event and and starting my career.
You know, I would try to push myself to go
(05:17):
to different you know, networking events, and so many times
I would talk myself out of going because I was like,
I'm just too anxious to go by myself.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
At some point I would have like that crutch friend
that I needed to go with, which I feel like
people can probably relate to.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Shout out to that friend. Shout out to because you
know your job and you are a good hype and wingman.
Thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
When like the invite comes around, they're like, oh work
happy hour and you're like, well, are you going? Okay,
then I'll go right It's like that, Yeah, but I've
gotten a lot better, I think just because of exposure.
Like I pushed myself to go to events, and the
way I kind of approach it now is I get
there early, so I'm not walking into a large group
and that's helped me. Okay, So that's kind of my
(05:58):
like hack for it is just like don't yourself to
large situations right off the bat, like ease in, get
there early. I also like being late just stresses me
out in general, like I'm chronically on time. If you
can relate, let me know. But now, something I experienced
when it comes to social anxiety, which I think is
a consequence of it, is like after larger events, whether
it even be like hanging out with friends or a
(06:18):
networking event whatever, I'm a big time spiraler, Like I
will sit there and ruminate on you know, what did
I say?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
What did I not say?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know? Was I too casual?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I feel like sometimes because the lines between like personal
professional life.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Can be blurry.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a
professional setting, and I'm like, oof, is that too mut Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Oh I live rent free in my headg E men, no,
I wish okay, But what about you? Is social anxiety
something you experience at work?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah? I mean I've experienced social anxiety my entire life,
and honestly, especially when I was younger, I didn't even
know what that was. That wasn't even a word, right,
because I was the kid who is always in plays
and shows and performing piano and stuff, and so naturally
my family thought, oh, she likes to talk with people,
she's very extrovert, if she's very outgoing, that kind of
(07:15):
spiraled in itself, and even in my career, I think
a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that
that is who I am all the time, because again,
they're seeing me on camera or they're hearing me in
their headphones. And the truth of the matter is, in
my career I found that like, I'm so on for
the actual performance. I say like in quotation marks, because
(07:35):
anything to me feels performative, whether it's hosting a workshop
at LinkedIn or doing this podcast. But immediately right after,
I'm ready to go back in my show, go back
into my world, and sort of like pour back into
myself after I've expounded all the energy. A lot of
people don't understand how exhausting it is to be on
(07:56):
and so my social anxiety, I think often comes from
like that after event or yeah, the crash, but then
like you're still in the presence of other people, you know,
So like, for instance, I've had panels before where or
I've gone to schools or universities and I've been on
a panel and I've talked, and like we've just done
like a forty five minute hour talk. I'm feeling good,
(08:17):
I'm feeling hype. Then it ends and the first thing
everyone does is run to the stage because they want
to meet the speakers. Now I feel like a jerk
if I'm like, no, I'm gonna, you know, go drink
my tea and go listen to my meditation music because
I feel like you have made the offer to come
to see me. I want to stand here and I'm
gonna do it, and I always do. I am always
in there until the last person leaves the room, because
(08:39):
I want to make sure you have the opportunity to talk.
But I also realize that I put myself in situations
where now I'm like, oh god, a lot of people
they just are opening up their mouth and they just
start chatting away. They want me to solve their life problems,
give them money, like they're like, please fix my life,
and you're like phone sharking, Oh my gosh, predatory, Oh
(09:02):
my god. But it's just like, yeah, like the small
talk aspect of networking and being in rooms is so
exhaustive for me, and I never know what to say.
So I would just say, like, that is really sort
of where my social anxiety peaks. It's not in the
actual performance. I can get into a room and feel
okay after you know, I've kind of warmed myself up,
(09:24):
but it's sort of the everything that comes afterward and
the expectation I feel of other people on me that
really kind of feels sometimes the anxiety in it all.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, I definitely relate to that also, because people then
expect something of you because of who you are on stage, right,
and then they expect you to show up that way,
you know, off stage but the reality is, like, you know,
you have social anxiety. I have social anxiety. Looking at
as you might not see that. You know, we're very
present in our spaces, but you know, you might not
(09:54):
see it outwardly, if that's that a word out. Yeah,
but it is something a lot of people do experience internally.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And yeah, small talk is just.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's just so uncomfortable because I feel like you don't
know like what you're hoping to gain from it, and
I feel like there's so many times I've been in
situations where I'm making small talk and I say something
a little cringe or I do something weird, and I
will beat myself up after it. I'm like, oh my god,
Like I will cringe just thinking about that interaction.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I get it, It's it is cringey. And it also
sometimes feel so like, what is it superficial? It's just
like you're just like talking just to say that you've
said something like why are you asking my favorite color?
Are we five? Like you know if we're gonna get
cause I'm definitely the one like if let's unpack some
generational trauma, okay, like let's sit down and really talk.
(10:49):
But yeah, social anxiety can look like many things. It
can feel like many different things for different people, which
is why it's so easy to want to diagnose yourself.
But again, talk to mental health professional. But thankfully, you know,
Giann and I are going to be talking to someone
very very soon who can hopefully help. Wait, what's your
favorite color? Always read?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
If you're also in the social anxiety club, it's not
about fully overcoming those anxious feelings, it's really about figuring
out how to better manage them. And up next we're
talking with clinical psychologist doctor Follon Gooman on tips for
doing just that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So, Giana, we have been talking all about social anxiety
and honestly, I'm not even going hold with a girl.
Talking about it makes me a little anxious, all right.
I know so many people are probably dealing with this
at home or try to ask themselves like what social
anxiety even is and how they can hopefully utilize their
power against it in the workforce. But we couldn't just
do this you and I. We needed to bring in
(11:58):
an expert of many, many talents. Who do we have
this week?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You already know I have a million questions, So I
am so excited to bring on doctor Fallon Goodman. She's
a clinical psychologist and professor at George Washington University. She's
the director of the Emotion and Resilience Laboratory, which examines
how people can overcome social anxiety and build lasting relationships
and resilience to adversity. Doctor Goodman, thank you so much
(12:23):
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We're so excited for this.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Okay, doctor Goodman, So I want to start the conversation
by first asking how do you define social anxiety?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Social anxiety can be boiled down to a really simple feeling.
When you're in a social setting, or when you're thinking
about a social setting, you are worried about being rejected.
You're worried that people are going to evaluate you poorly,
They're going to judge you or criticize you, and ultimately
those judgments will lead to rejection.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I love that, and I think if you're thinking about
it from that lens, social anxiety can happen in any place.
Like I'm even thinking about like when I got married,
like that was anxious, Like I was anxious about that.
I mean, I don't think he was going to reject me.
He would have walked away from the hell. You never know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You never know that would have been the origin of
my villain story. But I love that you talk about
how social anxiety can cohapitate like in different spaces, and
it's not just like a one thing or one size
fits all for people.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I think this is something important to clarify upfront. So
social anxiety is not introversion. People that are introverted might
prefer smaller social settings one on one on a Friday night.
They might want to hang out at home rather than
going out. Introversion is about a preference for how you socialize.
Social anxiety is about fear related to socializing. And so,
like you're saying, it could pop up and Eddie Senny.
(13:42):
It could be on your wedding day with and about
your partner, or it could be getting on the metro
or the train and talking to a stranger. It could
be giving a talk to a big audience, or just
speaking up at a meeting at work. Social anxiety bubbles
up in all of these different settings, and one of
the reasons it often goes undetected is that it's easy
to miss. Because people are feeling socially anxious, they might
(14:04):
not be showing it, and it can happen in really
any social setting.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You mentioned these different scenarios where social anxiety kind of
bubbles up. And we know that advancing your career requires
building relationships, but when you feel socially anxious, it can
really stop you from making that first step. I know
I've talked myself out of going to networking events so
many times just because I felt so uncomfortable. And I
hear from a lot of gen zers who are starting
(14:30):
to network that they're nervous because they're like, why am
I going to reach out to this person when I
have nothing to offer? Or why am I going to
go to this event where I might be the youngest
person in the room. So I'm wondering, when it comes
to networking specifically, how can we ease our social anxiety,
whether it's online or in person.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I think most networking events are setting people up to fail.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I agree. So let's think about it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Let's go to a networking event and your job is
to build a relationship to a as your career, like,
no pressure, but make sure you're confident, make sure you're
competent and likable. If you instead reframe it as this
is a relationship building event, I want to meet new people,
and build relationships with those people. That's ultimately what gets
(15:16):
you the benefits of networking anyway. So when you approach
the event as this thing where you're trying to achieve something, which,
by the way, feels self serving because it is, well,
then that's going to lead to all of the doubts
of am I good enough? And what do I have
to offer and who wants to help me? As opposed
to I want to meet people in my industry with
(15:37):
whom I could develop a symbiotic relationship where we can
help each other in a way that feels authentic, not
in a way that feels gay me.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I love that reframe. I'm wondering, is there anything you
recommend like before the event? I feel like when it
comes to networking events, not that we're trying to cancel them,
but we'll cancel them, but I think a lot of
times like we go in and there's no structure. We
don't know like what role we're supposed to be playing there.
We just show up and it's just a free for all,
and it feels super uncomfortable because we don't know what
(16:08):
to anticipate. So is there anything like before the event
that we should be doing to kind of ease those
nerves aside from the mindset shift.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So let's sit on two things. One is the lack
of structure. For someone who's struggling with social anxiety. The
lack of structure is often the source of anxiety. So, like,
you go to a networking event. Do you drink? If
you do, do you hold your drink? And then how
do you get food? With one hand? Your is your phone?
Do you have a purse? I could see sweating? How
do you shake someone's hand? Now you have a drink
in one hand and then you have a plate in
(16:35):
the other. Like, all of these little tiny things can
accumulate to really increase someone's social anxiety. And by the
time the event is thirty minutes in, they're ruminating about
all the things that just happen. And also the social
rules are unclear to networking event. Yes, so I go
up to someone and say hello, Like, do I look
down at your name tag and make sure I'm not
like checking you out? But I want to know who
(16:56):
you are? And should I know who you are? Because
you're soone important? Like all these little mys. So the
lack of structure in and of itself is scary, So
let's just put that aside and recognize that that's one
of the things that makes it really anxiety provoking in
terms of what to do before. It would be the
same thing for any social interaction, which is define your goal,
and this goal should be something that is achievable, not
(17:18):
how you feel. So the goal. If your goal is
I want to go in and feel less anxious, well
good luck, because it's not going to happen. Instead, it
might be I want to introduce myself to three people,
or I want to get one person's email, something that
is tangible, something that is achievable. So when the event
is over, you can reflect back and say did I
(17:39):
achieve my goal? Yars or no. And this is really
the approach to treating social anxiety, because you want the
person to focus on doing things that are important to them,
regardless of how anxious it makes them feel. And then
the more you do that, the more you go and
the more you achieve your goals, and over time your
anxiety will eventually start to subside.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I love that. Another thing you mentioned earlier that I
think was really important to distinguish is that social anxiety
is not equal to introverts or extroverts. And I love
that you mentioned that because I am someone who a
lot of people would say is very extrovertive. But I
feel like I suffer a lot with social anxiety. Put
me in like a small intimate room, I start like mumbling,
(18:20):
and I my words can't get because I'm like thinking overthinking,
like like what's happening right now? Oh my god? Okay,
So small talk can be really difficult, and for a
lot of people, myself included, you start getting in your
head a lot about like is this person like interested
in what I'm saying? You know, am I doing the
right things? Et cetera. So how can we remove the
anxiety out of small talk? Like, what would be your
(18:40):
advice on how we can make small talk a little
easier and a little less cringe?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Well, small talk is cringe, okay. Small talk usually serves
no purpose other than to grease the wheels of an
interaction that you might have. So I think step one
is acknowledging that small talk is probably going to be
awkward and cringe, regardless of the setting. And the second
thing is taking some of the pressure off yourself for
that conversation too advance, so it might not go anywhere.
(19:06):
And if you're thinking every single thing that you say
could make or break a relationship, that's putting way too
much pressure on yourself, and that that increased pressure is
going to decrease the likelihood that the conversation goes anywhere,
because as you put pressure on yourself to have a
really good conversation, your performance will go down.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I want to bring up a listener question next. This
is our segment Dear work Bestie, where we answer your questions.
This week's comes from Mariah in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
How can we in the confidence to speak up during meetings,
especially if the meeting is filled with older or more
experienced colleagues. One of the things that I find myself
struggling with is almostly just feeling like a little bit
anxious and feeling like my thoughts or opinions or even
questions might come off as silly or maybe don't entirely
(19:57):
know what all is going on. So would love to
know how to overcome that, and I guess how to
feel more confident in my ability and my decisions and
my questions.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
It's a great question, and it's an important one as
people start to enter the workforce. Step one is read
the room. If your voice is not welcomed by the group,
then you want to stop there. Now that's an issue
potentially with the workplace or the culture or the group.
But you don't want to go in saying, well, I
want my opinion heard. I want to feel more confident,
and then make your voice heard when it's not welcomed,
(20:30):
because regardless of your approach, it will never be well received.
If after you read the room and you have the
understanding of the group, you know or you have a
good sense that your voice might be welcomed, that's where
you need to do some risk taking. To speak up
for the first time in a new group is really scary,
and most people are going to have some sort of
self doubt and some of the things that Mariah mentioned
(20:52):
of the self doubt about confidence and competence and am
I good enough? And I'm too young? Remember that age
does not necessarily equate with competence. Age might be correlated
with experience, but regardless, your ideas should be valued just
as much as anyone else's ideas. So in my lab
we have people of all education levels and ages, and
(21:15):
our mindset in our mantra is everyone's opinion is equally
valued regardless of educational status or experience, because sometimes your
naivety is a strength. You come in as the young gun,
and you get to offer an opinion that is fresh,
that is novel that people that have been there for
years might not see. And so it's all about reframing
(21:36):
how you're viewing your own voice.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, that's so important. One thing that I often reflect
on is that, like, your superpower is you being you.
You are in that room for a reason. But I
want to sort of also highlight though that while we're
having this conversation around anxiety, there's also like another layer
in this, particularly for communities of color or people from
marginalized groups. I know that throughout my career I have
(22:02):
often felt anxious in certain leadership rooms because you're afraid
of what you're going to say, what you're not going
to say, what's going to be weaponized against you, how
that's going to impact you. So what advice would you give,
maybe to those who do come from marginalized groups, on
how they can build a confidence to bring their most
authentic selves to the table.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
This is a really important question. So let's first jump
to treating social anxiety. When we treat social anxiety, one
of the things we focus on is people's thoughts, and specifically,
are you overestimating the chances that you will be rejected?
And if so, let's work on what we call these
cognitive distortions, or this belief that regardless of what you
doer say, you'll probably be rejected. If we can textualize this.
(22:44):
For a person with one or more marginalized identities, those thoughts,
those overestimations might not be overestimations because they have prior
experiences where they were more likely to be rejected than
other people, and worse, rejected as a function of who
they are are, not necessarily what they did or said,
but rejected because of some one or more identities that
(23:05):
they carry. So that's first and foremost. When you are
the individual or of one or more marginalized identities and
you're entering a situation, have that in mind that these
thoughts and worries you're having might not be your insecurity.
It might be based on prior experiences that you have.
Then the difficult thing to do with that is say, well,
regardless of what I do or say, I still might
(23:27):
be rejected, and I might be rejected of something about
me that I cannot change and something I might be
really proud of, or something that's visible or not visible.
But regardless of how I act, I might still be rejected.
And then there becomes a values based decision. Is it
important to me in this setting to have my voice heard?
And if so, am I willing to take the risk
(23:48):
of potential rejection or retaliation because this thing speaking my
mind or working on this project is important to me.
And that's a difficult conversations to have because the consequences
of doing that might be so much so that even
though it's important to you, you don't want to risk
the consequences so like it getting fired, for instance, or
not being given an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I love that, doctor Giman, and I appreciate you
saying that, because at the end of the day, we
all deserve to have our voices heard, we all deserve
to be respected. But also there is a point where
you have to evaluate if those things are not being met,
does that company deserve you? Because I'm gonna tell you
they don't. Baby, you need to go home. Bye, peace out.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You know, we've been talking a lot about experiencing social
anxiety in and out of work, and we heard from
Mariah who's struggling to speak up in meetings. And I think,
you know, sometimes social anxiety, like I was saying before,
it can prevent you from you've been going to events,
whether it be like a work happy hour or a
networking event. Let's say you are so socially anxious that
going to that work event after five o'clock is just
(24:52):
it's just not going to happen for you. And you
feel like, Okay, well, now I'm missing valuable opportunities to
speak to important people on the team. And now while
I get ahead of my career right Like, all these
thoughts come to mind.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So is exposure.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Therapy important when it comes to putting yourself out there?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Or I mean I feel like they answered Pella, Yes,
literally sweating just thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Okay, yes, you were missing out on opportunities, so let's
not lie to ourselves. Exposure is one of the most
effective ways to treat any form of anxiety, including social anxiety.
But here's the catch. I know everyone has phobia's I have.
I don't like heights. I climbed Mount Food. Let me
tell you a story. I climbed Mount Fuji. Wow, And
(25:43):
we're a third of the way up. It was a
beautiful day and it starts to get cloudy. My friend,
who I was climbing the mountain with, I said, oh,
what a shame. The weather really turned and he said, Oh,
that's because we're in the clouds. I said, we're what
we're in We're in the clouds. It's like, yeah, we're
in the clouds. That's how high we are. I had
the second panic attack of my life on the side
of an active volcano, and in that moment, I'm like,
(26:05):
I really don't like heights. So here's what I did.
I did an exposure, but I did it all wrong.
For the rest of the six hour climb, I held
on to my friend like this and looked down and
would occasionally peek up and look right back down. I'm
doing my exposure without exposing myself to the thing that
scares me. So what happened when I got off that
(26:27):
mountain and then I a few weeks later was up
on some sort of high building. I freaked out. My
heights anxiety went from an anxiety to a full blown
phobia after I did an exposure. Because if you expose
yourself in a way that's avoiding the thing you're exposing
yourself too. It's only gonna make it worse. It's when
(26:48):
you what we call white knuckling. You're squeezing, squeezing, squeezing,
and then you only become less anxious when you leave
that situation, as opposed to I'm climbing up a mountain
and I'm anxious, and I'm going to lean into my anxiety.
I'm going to look out onto the horizon, i going
to look down the mountain. I'm going to unhook for
(27:09):
my friend, not hold on to things or people, so
I can really fully immerse myself in the exposure. If
we translate this to social anxiety, if you go to
that networking event after work, you don't talk to a
single person and you're on your phone, or you're engaging
in a behavior that makes you feel safe, like grasping
onto a drink so you don't shake someone's hand, you
(27:30):
were just reinforcing your anxiety because you just taught yourself
that the only way to get through that event is
to have some sort of safety behavior. And then the
only way your anxiety is going to go down is
if you leave. And so when you leave that event,
you go from like an eight out of ten anxiety
to a zero out of ten. Oh, I'm glad that's over,
as opposed to staying in the situation long enough and
(27:52):
with the mindset of I'm going to stay in here
and eventually my anxiety will go down as I fully
engage in the situation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is so validating because I feel like when I
started going to networking events, I always needed my support friend,
like I would not go by myself and that's the
only way I would survive it. And then eventually, through
that exposure, I was like, Okay, this obviously isn't healthy
to have a crutch person. She's not going to be
around all the time. And it wasn't until the one
time she couldn't make it that I did want to
go to this event because I knew be important that
(28:22):
I went by myself, and I was fine, Like I
live to tell the tale.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
So this is a good example, though, because that's okay
if that's where you're starting, but not where you're ending.
So if going with your friend is going to be
the thing that gets you in the door, then do it,
but it should be done with the approach of my
friend might not always be here, and so how could
I move to the next level of going to the
event without my friend?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, I appreciate that too, because, like Gianna mentioned, the
world did not end. You know, I got to eat
some delicious food, maybe get a couple of drinks. Also,
maybe get to connect with one or two people. And
I think like, that's a muscle that once you keep,
you know, utilizing, it becomes stronger and you feel more comfi.
But let me ask you, because a couple of years ago,
twenty seventeen to be exact, you Girlly started to get
(29:05):
on the medication and she started talking to a therapist
consistently and life changed for the better. So I am
all about therapy. I am all about seeing a medical professional.
We've talked a lot about ways people can figure out
how to maybe be less anxious or how to create
a game plan. But at what point is it no
longer Okay, I have it in my hands, you need
(29:27):
to give it over to a medical professional and seek help. Listen.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I gave birth six weeks ago and in the hospital,
my Obi came up to me and said, I made
you a therapy appointment because she knew knowing me for
years and what I went through with the birth that
I was going to need it. So there's need, but
there's also at any point you're suffering and you have
access and can afford a therapist, is a good time
to get a therapist. People think that I must have
(29:54):
a horrible experience or something traumatic, or I must be
at rock bottom, and then I'll seek therapy because I
need help. Now, Why wait until things are that bad
when any single human can benefit from therapy. Therapy is
a place to process things. Therapy is a place to
learn coping skills, to make a plan, to set goals.
(30:15):
So therapy can be helpful at any stage of anything
you're struggling with. And you don't have to have a diagnosis.
You don't have to have one event that you want
to work on. You could just be wanting to improve
your life or yourself in some way.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I will say my therapist has it helped my social
anxiety a lot, And she always says, like Gianna, you
have evidence that you're able to handle these situations, but
you continue to deny the evidence when it happens, and eventually,
as you expose yourself more and more, like you were
saying before, you do really start believing like Okay, I
clearly can do this. It might be uncomfortable, but I
(30:48):
can survive. All right, Doctor Gumman, thank you so much
for joining us today. I know we learned so much
from this conversation and listeners are going to take away
a lot as well, So thank you so much for
joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I mean, I feel like we kind of had a
therapy session just now.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
This is selfishly us just meeting advice.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Honestly, it was just like, just like, let's all get
in a room together and talk about anxiety. And we
really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks for
having me. Okay, Doctor Goodman was so cool, and we
hope those tips she shared will give you the confidence
to take on that next happy hour coming up. Do
you follow your co workers on social media? What are
(31:26):
your social media boundaries? We're getting into it after the
break all right.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
First off, I love that doctor Goodman made such a
weighty topic light.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, that was really refreshing. What are you taking away
from this conversation? I really love that she touched on
small talks, especially since we start off the episode discussing
how we both have a visceral response to what I'm
taking way, is that small talk is bound to be
awkward and honestly, let your freak flag fly when you
(32:08):
go into rooms, like make sure you set realistic expectations.
Done is better than perfect in the situation. And what
I feel is I'm going to do is like I'm
going to go into rooms and choose one or two
people that I can create meaningful relationship with instead of
trying to like spread the seat out all over the place.
Don't do that. That's a little scary. What about you?
What are you taking away?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, kind of similar. I think the biggest thing for
me is going into networking events or social settings with
a goal, especially when it's kind of like no man's land,
uncharted territory, like a networking event. Going in saying, you know,
I want to leave it two connections, I want to
go in and talk to three people whatever it might be,
just makes it so digestible and you kind of know
what to expect, because that's the whole thing, obviously with anxiety,
(32:49):
is this uncertainty of what the event will hold. So
if you go in and kind of create that structure
for yourself, it will just help you ease in and
hopefully enjoy the event.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I like it we need to hang out with her
more often. Yes, she's the best she is. Okay, it
is now time for one of my favorite segments, cringe
or Cool. This is the segment where Gian and I
look at workplace culture or even the latest work trends,
maybe some hot takes, and we determine if they are
cringe or cool. Now, guys, it was a very busy
week for me, so I have no idea what she
(33:19):
is about to throw my way, and I am very
freaking into this blend. I am nervous.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Okay, we're talking about following your coworkers on social media.
We follow each other, we do yes.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
To share your well, what about it?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Right? Wrong?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Cringe cool? Remember when we did that episode around boundaries
and I.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Was like, I knew you were going to go there, and.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
That's when the boundaries get tested. Okay, so let me
say this. I am not opposed because naturally people will
be like, oh whatever, and then they want to follow you.
I don't try to go out of my way to
do that because I realize as much as everyone, every company,
every place that says like bring your authentic selves to work,
y'all don't need to be seeing Jamie when she's swinging
(34:07):
from the chandeliers at brunch. Respectfully, there are just some
things that we just need the hot girls to see
authentic ish. And so for me, you know, I like
to kind of keep separated church and state. But there
are obviously people, you know, you and a number of
other coworkers who I have found bonds with and I'm like, okay, cool,
(34:29):
we can stay connected. But I do also believe that
sometimes people are just doing it to clock you and
and to be nosy. And I'm like, well, baby girl,
if you want to, you know, if you want to
come to the show, buy a ticket. You know what
I'm saying. Like, so I do kind of like try
to monitor who gets to see but sometimes I have
no way to do that. And you know what's really
(34:50):
sticky when you follow people and then you decide never mind,
my boundary is changed because now I can't unfollow you
and stuff. Yeah, I'm debating that for some things.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We got to talk off plane.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah what about I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I think you have to like respect your own boundaries
when it comes to who you let follow you on
social media. I definitely follow people who we work with,
and I think that's because you know, we've kind of
created bonds in the office that were taken offline. If
you will, you got to use your discretion with it,
and I definitely will admit like when I like, I
(35:25):
made my profile public and I was like, okay, I
gotta build this brand, like I'm doing that thing, and
I was like, all right, I got to archivee.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Some old photos.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know, I got it, And now I'm I'm definitely
cautious of what I'm posting. So I think if you're
like open to that, I think you just have to
be aware of like, yeah, people you work with in
a professional context are going to see what you're posting,
So you either have to decide like I might censor
slightly my content, or you know, I'm gonna put it
all out there and just hope for the bust.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
You're right, which honestly brings up this larger conversation that
my mom always taught me, which is like, don't put
anything out into the world you would not want people
to see. So like footprints are They're crazy? Yes, And
I know I I always try to go under the
assumption of best intent and whatever I post out there,
like if it somehow got plastered up in a team
meeting of some sort, God forbid, because you already know
(36:15):
what's sweaty my arn't bits. But I would be like
okay with that. But I do think though, that there
are just still some things that you want to maintain
for yourself. Right now, let me ask you this is it.
Does it make a difference if your coworker posts often
versus not?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So see, that's what I don't understand. Why would I
follow someone who doesn't post at all?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Because you're just like an influencer queen, like hundred followers.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Person not ya, like a random person. No, I don't know, No,
I don't know. Just off the top of my head,
you're analytics. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm using this podcast
to call you out. No, no, no, no, no, like but no,
like you don't you don't post anything. Yeah, you know
your photos look like they were from twenty fifteen. You
(37:02):
have photos of like a coffee and like a random
goal coffee. I do, but like, who is this? I
don't know. I don't know who. Who is being revealed
in my spirit? But anyway, no, I know it's just like, uh,
you know, but if I see, like, oh, people are
actively engaging you know, we get to work with a
lot of people who have families are blessed. Yes, I
love when parents post, like, you know, their babies, they
(37:24):
take them to the park, or their dogs. You know,
I'm a dog mom, so I love it, so things
like that. So anyway, I would love to know from
you guys if you believe in following your co workers
on social media. I'm gonna throw another muckey wrench in there.
Tell me if you follow your manager or if you
allow your manager to follow you. I know Gianna's feelings
about this, I do. I know we all love Andrew.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, okay, oh yeah, I'm curious, like, do you guys
allow your coworkers to follow you? And like, at what
point are you like, no, this person's not you know,
let us not make it.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We want to know.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well, anyway, guys, I am going to now go through
my phone and see who's following me and start blocking off.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I'm about to get blocked.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
No, but seriously, thank you guys so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Make sure you guys are following the newsletter. Let's talk
offline if you're not already, we go even deeper into
the topics. We discuss on the podcast and you can
share all your hot takes on our segments like cring
or cool. You could find the newsletter link in the
show description and it's also in my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
It absolutely is now. Look, we cannot end the show
without thanking Mariah for sending in their fashion aryah Malriya,
not Carrie, but Mariya. Thank you. We want to also
hear you' allsk questions. Okay, so make sure you are
sending us your questions. Information on how to do that
is also in the show description. You know where to look.
Don't embarrass me.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
She's looking in the camera.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Look in the show description. I'm scared yet again.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Okay. Make sure you guys are also reading and following
the show wherever you like to listen. We'd love to
hear what you're thinking, write a review, show us.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Some love, all the things, all the things.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All right before you go, remember Jamay and I've always
got your back, So if something comes up, Let's Talk offline.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I'm Gianna Predenti and.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I'm Jamay Jackson Gadson, Stay Thriving.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Executive producers on iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm, and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(39:48):
chief of LinkedIn
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
After larger events, whether it even be like hanging out
with friends or a networking event whatever, I'm a big
time spiraler, like I will sit there and ruminate on
you know, what did I say? What did I not say?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
You know?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Was I too casual? I feel like sometimes because the
lines between like personal professional life can be blurry. I
speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a professional setting,
and I'm like, oof, is that too mud? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh, I live rent free in my hedge e men, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Exacting saying something you know I wish.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
From LinkedIn News and i Heeart podcasts, this is Let's
Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in their early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or sleep.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm Janna Prdente and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadson to me
at your career, guys, listen, you're gonna have to put
yourself out there and build connections. Do we have to?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
But I also understand that that can fire up a
lot of feelings of social anxiety. I mean, you're stepping
outside your comfort zone. You're entering unfamiliar social situations and
you're probably meeting a whole bunch of new people. You're
making a lot of small talk, which is gross, and
you're hoping that you don't say something super awkward or
even cringe.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh yes, I can so relate to this. I seriously
need more than two hands and maybe even two feet
to count how many times I've backed out of social
situations like a networking event because I was too anxious,
Like I got that pit in my stomach and I
was like, nope, that's it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Even day to.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Day, I experience social anxiety, like when I'm at the office.
And now, if you can relate, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I see you, I feel you.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We're gonna be talking about ways you can manage those
anxious feelings, both in and out of the workplace.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
On today's episode, so Gianna personal question Oka. On a
scale of one to ten, how often do you experience
social anxiety? God? How often? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I'm probably like at a six or a seven.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh God, cortisol levels right now, they are my blood
work and they came that high. Well, look, you know, honestly,
you are in good company. A lot of people have
anxious moments. I mean, and it really doesn't matter if
you're an introvert or extrovert. It's just a human feeling.
And I think particularly based upon where you live, your demographics,
(02:31):
your jobs, those all can add into it. And so really,
when it comes to your career, you're going to be
in a lot of social situations where you might feel
socially anxious. And I mean, we're gonna be talking about
that today, which I'm super excited about. But before we do, Gion,
I think it's super important for us to sort of
set the level playing field here. I just want to
give a quick disclaimer to y'all. The Geanna and I
(02:55):
we might be able to self diagnose ourselves when we
see things online. We might look at WebMD every once
in a while, I feel like I'm dying, but I
want to remind you all we are not mental health
professionals of any kind. Okay. We are literally just two
anxious girlies trying our best, struggling and who are having
hard conversations. Okay, So I just want to make sure
(03:17):
we are aware of that, because you know, we're gonna
be talking a lot today about our own mental health,
our own social anxious anxiety struggles, and we're going to
be giving tips to help you all, but I also
want to say, if you need help, that is totally fine,
certainly speak to a mental health professional. Later in the show,
we're actually going to be talking to clinical psychologists doctor
(03:38):
Follen Goodman about how to manage those feelings of social anxiety.
So honestly I look forward to that. But before then, gee,
you've actually reported on an anxiety among gen Zers. What
is that all about?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I have so when I started coming back to the office,
my social anxiety was peaking, especially after the pandemic. I
feel like a lot of us forgot how to socialize
when we were in isolation. You know, I wrote an
article last year on this topic because I had seen
a stat that said nine to ten gen Zers experienced
social anxiety, which I thought was insane. That's a staggering
(04:12):
stat And at the time, reporting on it felt really
timely and still does because of all these return to
office mandates, and over the last two years, gen Z
has been entering the office for the first time ever,
and when that happens, many of us feel like we
need to relearn to socialize. And I know, I certainly
felt that way, so I have reported on it before,
largely because of my own personal struggles with social anxiety.
(04:36):
I've always been a socially anxious, girally Like in high school,
I was a homebody. I didn't really like, you know,
go to events or like hang out with people in
big social groups because it just gave me a lot
of anxiety. And I also wasn't like actually diagnosed with
general anxiety until after high school. So at the time
(04:56):
I was just like, yeah, I'm I don't know what's
going on, but I don't something right, but I don't
know what, but yeah, I still get a lot of anxiety,
you know, in social you know, everyday interactions, especially when
it comes to events that are in more of a
professional context like a networking event and and starting my career.
You know, I would try to push myself to go
(05:17):
to different you know, networking events, and so many times
I would talk myself out of going because I was like,
I'm just too anxious to go by myself.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
At some point I would have like that crutch friend
that I needed to go with, which I feel like
people can probably relate to.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Shout out to that friend. Shout out to because you
know your job and you are a good hype and wingman.
Thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
When like the invite comes around, they're like, oh work
happy hour and you're like, well, are you going? Okay,
then I'll go right It's like that, Yeah, but I've
gotten a lot better, I think just because of exposure.
Like I pushed myself to go to events, and the
way I kind of approach it now is I get
there early, so I'm not walking into a large group
and that's helped me. Okay, So that's kind of my
(05:58):
like hack for it is just like don't yourself to
large situations right off the bat, like ease in, get
there early. I also like being late just stresses me
out in general, like I'm chronically on time. If you
can relate, let me know. But now, something I experienced
when it comes to social anxiety, which I think is
a consequence of it, is like after larger events, whether
it even be like hanging out with friends or a
(06:18):
networking event whatever, I'm a big time spiraler, Like I
will sit there and ruminate on you know, what did
I say?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
What did I not say?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know? Was I too casual?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I feel like sometimes because the lines between like personal
professional life.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Can be blurry.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I speak very candidly sometimes, especially you know, in a
professional setting, and I'm like, oof, is that too mut Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But if you're always overthinking it, that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Oh I live rent free in my headg E men, no,
I wish okay, But what about you? Is social anxiety
something you experience at work?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah? I mean I've experienced social anxiety my entire life,
and honestly, especially when I was younger, I didn't even
know what that was. That wasn't even a word, right,
because I was the kid who is always in plays
and shows and performing piano and stuff, and so naturally
my family thought, oh, she likes to talk with people,
she's very extrovert, if she's very outgoing, that kind of
(07:15):
spiraled in itself, and even in my career, I think
a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that
that is who I am all the time, because again,
they're seeing me on camera or they're hearing me in
their headphones. And the truth of the matter is, in
my career I found that like, I'm so on for
the actual performance. I say like in quotation marks, because
(07:35):
anything to me feels performative, whether it's hosting a workshop
at LinkedIn or doing this podcast. But immediately right after,
I'm ready to go back in my show, go back
into my world, and sort of like pour back into
myself after I've expounded all the energy. A lot of
people don't understand how exhausting it is to be on
(07:56):
and so my social anxiety, I think often comes from
like that after event or yeah, the crash, but then
like you're still in the presence of other people, you know,
So like, for instance, I've had panels before where or
I've gone to schools or universities and I've been on
a panel and I've talked, and like we've just done
like a forty five minute hour talk. I'm feeling good,
(08:17):
I'm feeling hype. Then it ends and the first thing
everyone does is run to the stage because they want
to meet the speakers. Now I feel like a jerk
if I'm like, no, I'm gonna, you know, go drink
my tea and go listen to my meditation music because
I feel like you have made the offer to come
to see me. I want to stand here and I'm
gonna do it, and I always do. I am always
in there until the last person leaves the room, because
(08:39):
I want to make sure you have the opportunity to talk.
But I also realize that I put myself in situations
where now I'm like, oh god, a lot of people
they just are opening up their mouth and they just
start chatting away. They want me to solve their life problems,
give them money, like they're like, please fix my life,
and you're like phone sharking, Oh my gosh, predatory, Oh
(09:02):
my god. But it's just like, yeah, like the small
talk aspect of networking and being in rooms is so
exhaustive for me, and I never know what to say.
So I would just say, like, that is really sort
of where my social anxiety peaks. It's not in the
actual performance. I can get into a room and feel
okay after you know, I've kind of warmed myself up,
(09:24):
but it's sort of the everything that comes afterward and
the expectation I feel of other people on me that
really kind of feels sometimes the anxiety in it all.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, I definitely relate to that also, because people then
expect something of you because of who you are on stage, right,
and then they expect you to show up that way,
you know, off stage but the reality is, like, you know,
you have social anxiety. I have social anxiety. Looking at
as you might not see that. You know, we're very
present in our spaces, but you know, you might not
(09:54):
see it outwardly, if that's that a word out. Yeah,
but it is something a lot of people do experience internally.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And yeah, small talk is just.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's just so uncomfortable because I feel like you don't
know like what you're hoping to gain from it, and
I feel like there's so many times I've been in
situations where I'm making small talk and I say something
a little cringe or I do something weird, and I
will beat myself up after it. I'm like, oh my god,
Like I will cringe just thinking about that interaction.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I get it, It's it is cringey. And it also
sometimes feel so like, what is it superficial? It's just
like you're just like talking just to say that you've
said something like why are you asking my favorite color?
Are we five? Like you know if we're gonna get
cause I'm definitely the one like if let's unpack some
generational trauma, okay, like let's sit down and really talk.
(10:49):
But yeah, social anxiety can look like many things. It
can feel like many different things for different people, which
is why it's so easy to want to diagnose yourself.
But again, talk to mental health professional. But thankfully, you know,
Giann and I are going to be talking to someone
very very soon who can hopefully help. Wait, what's your
favorite color? Always read?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
If you're also in the social anxiety club, it's not
about fully overcoming those anxious feelings, it's really about figuring
out how to better manage them. And up next we're
talking with clinical psychologist doctor Follon Gooman on tips for
doing just that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So, Giana, we have been talking all about social anxiety
and honestly, I'm not even going hold with a girl.
Talking about it makes me a little anxious, all right.
I know so many people are probably dealing with this
at home or try to ask themselves like what social
anxiety even is and how they can hopefully utilize their
power against it in the workforce. But we couldn't just
do this you and I. We needed to bring in
(11:58):
an expert of many, many talents. Who do we have
this week?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You already know I have a million questions, So I
am so excited to bring on doctor Fallon Goodman. She's
a clinical psychologist and professor at George Washington University. She's
the director of the Emotion and Resilience Laboratory, which examines
how people can overcome social anxiety and build lasting relationships
and resilience to adversity. Doctor Goodman, thank you so much
(12:23):
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We're so excited for this.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Okay, doctor Goodman, So I want to start the conversation
by first asking how do you define social anxiety?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Social anxiety can be boiled down to a really simple feeling.
When you're in a social setting, or when you're thinking
about a social setting, you are worried about being rejected.
You're worried that people are going to evaluate you poorly,
They're going to judge you or criticize you, and ultimately
those judgments will lead to rejection.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I love that, and I think if you're thinking about
it from that lens, social anxiety can happen in any place.
Like I'm even thinking about like when I got married,
like that was anxious, Like I was anxious about that.
I mean, I don't think he was going to reject me.
He would have walked away from the hell. You never know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You never know that would have been the origin of
my villain story. But I love that you talk about
how social anxiety can cohapitate like in different spaces, and
it's not just like a one thing or one size
fits all for people.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I think this is something important to clarify upfront. So
social anxiety is not introversion. People that are introverted might
prefer smaller social settings one on one on a Friday night.
They might want to hang out at home rather than
going out. Introversion is about a preference for how you socialize.
Social anxiety is about fear related to socializing. And so,
like you're saying, it could pop up and Eddie Senny.
(13:42):
It could be on your wedding day with and about
your partner, or it could be getting on the metro
or the train and talking to a stranger. It could
be giving a talk to a big audience, or just
speaking up at a meeting at work. Social anxiety bubbles
up in all of these different settings, and one of
the reasons it often goes undetected is that it's easy
to miss. Because people are feeling socially anxious, they might
(14:04):
not be showing it, and it can happen in really
any social setting.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You mentioned these different scenarios where social anxiety kind of
bubbles up. And we know that advancing your career requires
building relationships, but when you feel socially anxious, it can
really stop you from making that first step. I know
I've talked myself out of going to networking events so
many times just because I felt so uncomfortable. And I
hear from a lot of gen zers who are starting
(14:30):
to network that they're nervous because they're like, why am
I going to reach out to this person when I
have nothing to offer? Or why am I going to
go to this event where I might be the youngest
person in the room. So I'm wondering, when it comes
to networking specifically, how can we ease our social anxiety,
whether it's online or in person.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
I think most networking events are setting people up to fail.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I agree. So let's think about it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Let's go to a networking event and your job is
to build a relationship to a as your career, like,
no pressure, but make sure you're confident, make sure you're
competent and likable. If you instead reframe it as this
is a relationship building event, I want to meet new people,
and build relationships with those people. That's ultimately what gets
(15:16):
you the benefits of networking anyway. So when you approach
the event as this thing where you're trying to achieve something, which,
by the way, feels self serving because it is, well,
then that's going to lead to all of the doubts
of am I good enough? And what do I have
to offer and who wants to help me? As opposed
to I want to meet people in my industry with
(15:37):
whom I could develop a symbiotic relationship where we can
help each other in a way that feels authentic, not
in a way that feels gay me.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I love that reframe. I'm wondering, is there anything you
recommend like before the event? I feel like when it
comes to networking events, not that we're trying to cancel them,
but we'll cancel them, but I think a lot of
times like we go in and there's no structure. We
don't know like what role we're supposed to be playing there.
We just show up and it's just a free for all,
and it feels super uncomfortable because we don't know what
(16:08):
to anticipate. So is there anything like before the event
that we should be doing to kind of ease those
nerves aside from the mindset shift.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So let's sit on two things. One is the lack
of structure. For someone who's struggling with social anxiety. The
lack of structure is often the source of anxiety. So, like,
you go to a networking event. Do you drink? If
you do, do you hold your drink? And then how
do you get food? With one hand? Your is your phone?
Do you have a purse? I could see sweating? How
do you shake someone's hand? Now you have a drink
in one hand and then you have a plate in
(16:35):
the other. Like, all of these little tiny things can
accumulate to really increase someone's social anxiety. And by the
time the event is thirty minutes in, they're ruminating about
all the things that just happen. And also the social
rules are unclear to networking event. Yes, so I go
up to someone and say hello, Like, do I look
down at your name tag and make sure I'm not
like checking you out? But I want to know who
(16:56):
you are? And should I know who you are? Because
you're soone important? Like all these little mys. So the
lack of structure in and of itself is scary, So
let's just put that aside and recognize that that's one
of the things that makes it really anxiety provoking in
terms of what to do before. It would be the
same thing for any social interaction, which is define your goal,
and this goal should be something that is achievable, not
(17:18):
how you feel. So the goal. If your goal is
I want to go in and feel less anxious, well
good luck, because it's not going to happen. Instead, it
might be I want to introduce myself to three people,
or I want to get one person's email, something that
is tangible, something that is achievable. So when the event
is over, you can reflect back and say did I
(17:39):
achieve my goal? Yars or no. And this is really
the approach to treating social anxiety, because you want the
person to focus on doing things that are important to them,
regardless of how anxious it makes them feel. And then
the more you do that, the more you go and
the more you achieve your goals, and over time your
anxiety will eventually start to subside.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I love that. Another thing you mentioned earlier that I
think was really important to distinguish is that social anxiety
is not equal to introverts or extroverts. And I love
that you mentioned that because I am someone who a
lot of people would say is very extrovertive. But I
feel like I suffer a lot with social anxiety. Put
me in like a small intimate room, I start like mumbling,
(18:20):
and I my words can't get because I'm like thinking overthinking,
like like what's happening right now? Oh my god? Okay,
So small talk can be really difficult, and for a
lot of people, myself included, you start getting in your
head a lot about like is this person like interested
in what I'm saying? You know, am I doing the
right things? Et cetera. So how can we remove the
anxiety out of small talk? Like, what would be your
(18:40):
advice on how we can make small talk a little
easier and a little less cringe?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Well, small talk is cringe, okay. Small talk usually serves
no purpose other than to grease the wheels of an
interaction that you might have. So I think step one
is acknowledging that small talk is probably going to be
awkward and cringe, regardless of the setting. And the second
thing is taking some of the pressure off yourself for
that conversation too advance, so it might not go anywhere.
(19:06):
And if you're thinking every single thing that you say
could make or break a relationship, that's putting way too
much pressure on yourself, and that that increased pressure is
going to decrease the likelihood that the conversation goes anywhere,
because as you put pressure on yourself to have a
really good conversation, your performance will go down.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I want to bring up a listener question next. This
is our segment Dear work Bestie, where we answer your questions.
This week's comes from Mariah in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
How can we in the confidence to speak up during meetings,
especially if the meeting is filled with older or more
experienced colleagues. One of the things that I find myself
struggling with is almostly just feeling like a little bit
anxious and feeling like my thoughts or opinions or even
questions might come off as silly or maybe don't entirely
(19:57):
know what all is going on. So would love to
know how to overcome that, and I guess how to
feel more confident in my ability and my decisions and
my questions.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
It's a great question, and it's an important one as
people start to enter the workforce. Step one is read
the room. If your voice is not welcomed by the group,
then you want to stop there. Now that's an issue
potentially with the workplace or the culture or the group.
But you don't want to go in saying, well, I
want my opinion heard. I want to feel more confident,
and then make your voice heard when it's not welcomed,
(20:30):
because regardless of your approach, it will never be well received.
If after you read the room and you have the
understanding of the group, you know or you have a
good sense that your voice might be welcomed, that's where
you need to do some risk taking. To speak up
for the first time in a new group is really scary,
and most people are going to have some sort of
self doubt and some of the things that Mariah mentioned
(20:52):
of the self doubt about confidence and competence and am
I good enough? And I'm too young? Remember that age
does not necessarily equate with competence. Age might be correlated
with experience, but regardless, your ideas should be valued just
as much as anyone else's ideas. So in my lab
we have people of all education levels and ages, and
(21:15):
our mindset in our mantra is everyone's opinion is equally
valued regardless of educational status or experience, because sometimes your
naivety is a strength. You come in as the young gun,
and you get to offer an opinion that is fresh,
that is novel that people that have been there for
years might not see. And so it's all about reframing
(21:36):
how you're viewing your own voice.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, that's so important. One thing that I often reflect
on is that, like, your superpower is you being you.
You are in that room for a reason. But I
want to sort of also highlight though that while we're
having this conversation around anxiety, there's also like another layer
in this, particularly for communities of color or people from
marginalized groups. I know that throughout my career I have
(22:02):
often felt anxious in certain leadership rooms because you're afraid
of what you're going to say, what you're not going
to say, what's going to be weaponized against you, how
that's going to impact you. So what advice would you give,
maybe to those who do come from marginalized groups, on
how they can build a confidence to bring their most
authentic selves to the table.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
This is a really important question. So let's first jump
to treating social anxiety. When we treat social anxiety, one
of the things we focus on is people's thoughts, and specifically,
are you overestimating the chances that you will be rejected?
And if so, let's work on what we call these
cognitive distortions, or this belief that regardless of what you
doer say, you'll probably be rejected. If we can textualize this.
(22:44):
For a person with one or more marginalized identities, those thoughts,
those overestimations might not be overestimations because they have prior
experiences where they were more likely to be rejected than
other people, and worse, rejected as a function of who
they are are, not necessarily what they did or said,
but rejected because of some one or more identities that
(23:05):
they carry. So that's first and foremost. When you are
the individual or of one or more marginalized identities and
you're entering a situation, have that in mind that these
thoughts and worries you're having might not be your insecurity.
It might be based on prior experiences that you have.
Then the difficult thing to do with that is say, well,
regardless of what I do or say, I still might
(23:27):
be rejected, and I might be rejected of something about
me that I cannot change and something I might be
really proud of, or something that's visible or not visible.
But regardless of how I act, I might still be rejected.
And then there becomes a values based decision. Is it
important to me in this setting to have my voice heard?
And if so, am I willing to take the risk
(23:48):
of potential rejection or retaliation because this thing speaking my
mind or working on this project is important to me.
And that's a difficult conversations to have because the consequences
of doing that might be so much so that even
though it's important to you, you don't want to risk
the consequences so like it getting fired, for instance, or
not being given an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I love that, doctor Giman, and I appreciate you
saying that, because at the end of the day, we
all deserve to have our voices heard, we all deserve
to be respected. But also there is a point where
you have to evaluate if those things are not being met,
does that company deserve you? Because I'm gonna tell you
they don't. Baby, you need to go home. Bye, peace out.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You know, we've been talking a lot about experiencing social
anxiety in and out of work, and we heard from
Mariah who's struggling to speak up in meetings. And I think,
you know, sometimes social anxiety, like I was saying before,
it can prevent you from you've been going to events,
whether it be like a work happy hour or a
networking event. Let's say you are so socially anxious that
going to that work event after five o'clock is just
(24:52):
it's just not going to happen for you. And you
feel like, Okay, well, now I'm missing valuable opportunities to
speak to important people on the team. And now while
I get ahead of my career right Like, all these
thoughts come to mind.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So is exposure.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Therapy important when it comes to putting yourself out there?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Or I mean I feel like they answered Pella, Yes,
literally sweating just thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Okay, yes, you were missing out on opportunities, so let's
not lie to ourselves. Exposure is one of the most
effective ways to treat any form of anxiety, including social anxiety.
But here's the catch. I know everyone has phobia's I have.
I don't like heights. I climbed Mount Food. Let me
tell you a story. I climbed Mount Fuji. Wow, And
(25:43):
we're a third of the way up. It was a
beautiful day and it starts to get cloudy. My friend,
who I was climbing the mountain with, I said, oh,
what a shame. The weather really turned and he said, Oh,
that's because we're in the clouds. I said, we're what
we're in We're in the clouds. It's like, yeah, we're
in the clouds. That's how high we are. I had
the second panic attack of my life on the side
of an active volcano, and in that moment, I'm like,
(26:05):
I really don't like heights. So here's what I did.
I did an exposure, but I did it all wrong.
For the rest of the six hour climb, I held
on to my friend like this and looked down and
would occasionally peek up and look right back down. I'm
doing my exposure without exposing myself to the thing that
scares me. So what happened when I got off that
(26:27):
mountain and then I a few weeks later was up
on some sort of high building. I freaked out. My
heights anxiety went from an anxiety to a full blown
phobia after I did an exposure. Because if you expose
yourself in a way that's avoiding the thing you're exposing
yourself too. It's only gonna make it worse. It's when
(26:48):
you what we call white knuckling. You're squeezing, squeezing, squeezing,
and then you only become less anxious when you leave
that situation, as opposed to I'm climbing up a mountain
and I'm anxious, and I'm going to lean into my anxiety.
I'm going to look out onto the horizon, i going
to look down the mountain. I'm going to unhook for
(27:09):
my friend, not hold on to things or people, so
I can really fully immerse myself in the exposure. If
we translate this to social anxiety, if you go to
that networking event after work, you don't talk to a
single person and you're on your phone, or you're engaging
in a behavior that makes you feel safe, like grasping
onto a drink so you don't shake someone's hand, you
(27:30):
were just reinforcing your anxiety because you just taught yourself
that the only way to get through that event is
to have some sort of safety behavior. And then the
only way your anxiety is going to go down is
if you leave. And so when you leave that event,
you go from like an eight out of ten anxiety
to a zero out of ten. Oh, I'm glad that's over,
as opposed to staying in the situation long enough and
(27:52):
with the mindset of I'm going to stay in here
and eventually my anxiety will go down as I fully
engage in the situation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is so validating because I feel like when I
started going to networking events, I always needed my support friend,
like I would not go by myself and that's the
only way I would survive it. And then eventually, through
that exposure, I was like, Okay, this obviously isn't healthy
to have a crutch person. She's not going to be
around all the time. And it wasn't until the one
time she couldn't make it that I did want to
go to this event because I knew be important that
(28:22):
I went by myself, and I was fine, Like I
live to tell the tale.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
So this is a good example, though, because that's okay
if that's where you're starting, but not where you're ending.
So if going with your friend is going to be
the thing that gets you in the door, then do it,
but it should be done with the approach of my
friend might not always be here, and so how could
I move to the next level of going to the
event without my friend?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, I appreciate that too, because, like Gianna mentioned, the
world did not end. You know, I got to eat
some delicious food, maybe get a couple of drinks. Also,
maybe get to connect with one or two people. And
I think like, that's a muscle that once you keep,
you know, utilizing, it becomes stronger and you feel more comfi.
But let me ask you, because a couple of years ago,
twenty seventeen to be exact, you Girlly started to get
(29:05):
on the medication and she started talking to a therapist
consistently and life changed for the better. So I am
all about therapy. I am all about seeing a medical professional.
We've talked a lot about ways people can figure out
how to maybe be less anxious or how to create
a game plan. But at what point is it no
longer Okay, I have it in my hands, you need
(29:27):
to give it over to a medical professional and seek help. Listen.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I gave birth six weeks ago and in the hospital,
my Obi came up to me and said, I made
you a therapy appointment because she knew knowing me for
years and what I went through with the birth that
I was going to need it. So there's need, but
there's also at any point you're suffering and you have
access and can afford a therapist, is a good time
to get a therapist. People think that I must have
(29:54):
a horrible experience or something traumatic, or I must be
at rock bottom, and then I'll seek therapy because I
need help. Now, Why wait until things are that bad
when any single human can benefit from therapy. Therapy is
a place to process things. Therapy is a place to
learn coping skills, to make a plan, to set goals.
(30:15):
So therapy can be helpful at any stage of anything
you're struggling with. And you don't have to have a diagnosis.
You don't have to have one event that you want
to work on. You could just be wanting to improve
your life or yourself in some way.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I will say my therapist has it helped my social
anxiety a lot, And she always says, like Gianna, you
have evidence that you're able to handle these situations, but
you continue to deny the evidence when it happens, and eventually,
as you expose yourself more and more, like you were
saying before, you do really start believing like Okay, I
clearly can do this. It might be uncomfortable, but I
(30:48):
can survive. All right, Doctor Gumman, thank you so much
for joining us today. I know we learned so much
from this conversation and listeners are going to take away
a lot as well, So thank you so much for
joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I mean, I feel like we kind of had a
therapy session just now.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
This is selfishly us just meeting advice.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Honestly, it was just like, just like, let's all get
in a room together and talk about anxiety. And we
really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thanks for
having me. Okay, Doctor Goodman was so cool, and we
hope those tips she shared will give you the confidence
to take on that next happy hour coming up. Do
you follow your co workers on social media? What are
(31:26):
your social media boundaries? We're getting into it after the
break all right.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
First off, I love that doctor Goodman made such a
weighty topic light.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, that was really refreshing. What are you taking away
from this conversation? I really love that she touched on
small talks, especially since we start off the episode discussing
how we both have a visceral response to what I'm
taking way, is that small talk is bound to be
awkward and honestly, let your freak flag fly when you
(32:08):
go into rooms, like make sure you set realistic expectations.
Done is better than perfect in the situation. And what
I feel is I'm going to do is like I'm
going to go into rooms and choose one or two
people that I can create meaningful relationship with instead of
trying to like spread the seat out all over the place.
Don't do that. That's a little scary. What about you?
What are you taking away?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, kind of similar. I think the biggest thing for
me is going into networking events or social settings with
a goal, especially when it's kind of like no man's land,
uncharted territory, like a networking event. Going in saying, you know,
I want to leave it two connections, I want to
go in and talk to three people whatever it might be,
just makes it so digestible and you kind of know
what to expect, because that's the whole thing, obviously with anxiety,
(32:49):
is this uncertainty of what the event will hold. So
if you go in and kind of create that structure
for yourself, it will just help you ease in and
hopefully enjoy the event.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I like it we need to hang out with her
more often. Yes, she's the best she is. Okay, it
is now time for one of my favorite segments, cringe
or Cool. This is the segment where Gian and I
look at workplace culture or even the latest work trends,
maybe some hot takes, and we determine if they are
cringe or cool. Now, guys, it was a very busy
week for me, so I have no idea what she
(33:19):
is about to throw my way, and I am very
freaking into this blend. I am nervous.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Okay, we're talking about following your coworkers on social media.
We follow each other, we do yes.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
To share your well, what about it?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Right? Wrong?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Cringe cool? Remember when we did that episode around boundaries
and I.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Was like, I knew you were going to go there, and.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
That's when the boundaries get tested. Okay, so let me
say this. I am not opposed because naturally people will
be like, oh whatever, and then they want to follow you.
I don't try to go out of my way to
do that because I realize as much as everyone, every company,
every place that says like bring your authentic selves to work,
y'all don't need to be seeing Jamie when she's swinging
(34:07):
from the chandeliers at brunch. Respectfully, there are just some
things that we just need the hot girls to see
authentic ish. And so for me, you know, I like
to kind of keep separated church and state. But there
are obviously people, you know, you and a number of
other coworkers who I have found bonds with and I'm like, okay, cool,
(34:29):
we can stay connected. But I do also believe that
sometimes people are just doing it to clock you and
and to be nosy. And I'm like, well, baby girl,
if you want to, you know, if you want to
come to the show, buy a ticket. You know what
I'm saying. Like, so I do kind of like try
to monitor who gets to see but sometimes I have
no way to do that. And you know what's really
(34:50):
sticky when you follow people and then you decide never mind,
my boundary is changed because now I can't unfollow you
and stuff. Yeah, I'm debating that for some things.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We got to talk off plane.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah what about I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I think you have to like respect your own boundaries
when it comes to who you let follow you on
social media. I definitely follow people who we work with,
and I think that's because you know, we've kind of
created bonds in the office that were taken offline. If
you will, you got to use your discretion with it,
and I definitely will admit like when I like, I
(35:25):
made my profile public and I was like, okay, I
gotta build this brand, like I'm doing that thing, and
I was like, all right, I got to archivee.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Some old photos.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know, I got it, And now I'm I'm definitely
cautious of what I'm posting. So I think if you're
like open to that, I think you just have to
be aware of like, yeah, people you work with in
a professional context are going to see what you're posting,
So you either have to decide like I might censor
slightly my content, or you know, I'm gonna put it
all out there and just hope for the bust.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
You're right, which honestly brings up this larger conversation that
my mom always taught me, which is like, don't put
anything out into the world you would not want people
to see. So like footprints are They're crazy? Yes, And
I know I I always try to go under the
assumption of best intent and whatever I post out there,
like if it somehow got plastered up in a team
meeting of some sort, God forbid, because you already know
(36:15):
what's sweaty my arn't bits. But I would be like
okay with that. But I do think though, that there
are just still some things that you want to maintain
for yourself. Right now, let me ask you this is it.
Does it make a difference if your coworker posts often
versus not?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So see, that's what I don't understand. Why would I
follow someone who doesn't post at all?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Because you're just like an influencer queen, like hundred followers.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Person not ya, like a random person. No, I don't know, No,
I don't know. Just off the top of my head,
you're analytics. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm using this podcast
to call you out. No, no, no, no, no, like but no,
like you don't you don't post anything. Yeah, you know
your photos look like they were from twenty fifteen. You
(37:02):
have photos of like a coffee and like a random
goal coffee. I do, but like, who is this? I
don't know. I don't know who. Who is being revealed
in my spirit? But anyway, no, I know it's just like, uh,
you know, but if I see, like, oh, people are
actively engaging you know, we get to work with a
lot of people who have families are blessed. Yes, I
love when parents post, like, you know, their babies, they
(37:24):
take them to the park, or their dogs. You know,
I'm a dog mom, so I love it, so things
like that. So anyway, I would love to know from
you guys if you believe in following your co workers
on social media. I'm gonna throw another muckey wrench in there.
Tell me if you follow your manager or if you
allow your manager to follow you. I know Gianna's feelings
about this, I do. I know we all love Andrew.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, okay, oh yeah, I'm curious, like, do you guys
allow your coworkers to follow you? And like, at what
point are you like, no, this person's not you know,
let us not make it.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We want to know.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well, anyway, guys, I am going to now go through
my phone and see who's following me and start blocking off.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I'm about to get blocked.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
No, but seriously, thank you guys so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Make sure you guys are following the newsletter. Let's talk
offline if you're not already, we go even deeper into
the topics. We discuss on the podcast and you can
share all your hot takes on our segments like cring
or cool. You could find the newsletter link in the
show description and it's also in my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
It absolutely is now. Look, we cannot end the show
without thanking Mariah for sending in their fashion aryah Malriya,
not Carrie, but Mariya. Thank you. We want to also
hear you' allsk questions. Okay, so make sure you are
sending us your questions. Information on how to do that
is also in the show description. You know where to look.
Don't embarrass me.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
She's looking in the camera.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Look in the show description. I'm scared yet again.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Okay. Make sure you guys are also reading and following
the show wherever you like to listen. We'd love to
hear what you're thinking, write a review, show us.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Some love, all the things, all the things.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All right before you go, remember Jamay and I've always
got your back, So if something comes up, Let's Talk offline.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I'm Gianna Predenti and.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I'm Jamay Jackson Gadson, Stay Thriving.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Executive producers on iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm, and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(39:48):
chief of LinkedIn
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com