September 10, 2024 • 34 mins
Getting a job offer feels like crossing a finish line… but you can’t let off the gas just yet. Because there’s still one critical part of the process left: the negotiation. You know your worth and want to get paid fairly, so how can you make the best case for yourself — without turning into a sweaty, nervous mess? We’re talking with negotiation expert Mori Taheripour about what strategies you can use when receiving your next job offer.
Do you have any burning questions about work? We want to hear them! You can email us your questions at letstalkoffline@linkedin.com.
And thank you to Mori Taheripour for joining us this week! Follow Mori on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/moritaheripour).
For more, follow Gianna (http://linkedin.com/in/giannaprudente) and Jamé (http://linkedin.com/in/jamejackson) on LinkedIn and subscribe to Gianna’s weekly newsletter: https://linkedin.com/letstalkoffline.
Credits
Gianna Prudente - Co-host, Early Career Development Editor, LinkedIn
Jamé Jackson - Co-host, Community Manager, LinkedIn
Sabrina Fang - Producer, Western Sound
Maya Pope-Chappell - Director of Content & Audience Development, LinkedIn
Jessi Hempel - Chief Content Officer, LinkedIn
Savannah Wright - Senior Producer, Western Sound
Sarah Dealy - Associate Producer, Western Sound
Alex MacInnis - Engineer, Western Sound
Courtney Coupe - Head of Original Programming, LinkedIn
Dan Roth - Editor in Chief, LinkedIn
Ben Adair - Executive Producer, Western Sound
Katrina Norvell - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
Nikke Ettore - Executive Producer, iHeartMedia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm sure a lot of people A don't negotiate because
it's scary, or be don't even know how to properly
research what they should be negotiating. So I mean the
fact that you backtrack and was like, hey, big heck,
can we actually put a little bit more money on
the top. The fact that you even did that was
super you know, ballsy, So I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I have to do it.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
From LinkedIn News and I heart podcasts, this is Let's
Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudenti and I'm Jamaye Jackson Gadsden.
You guys, can I be honest?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
One of the scariest things to me about job offers
is negotiating.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Honestly, where do I even start? Can I negotiate more
than just my salary?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And asking for too much? Am I asking for too little?
Can I take time off from work? There's just a
lot of things that are running through my head and
there's honestly too much to consider.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
So true, and something I hear from my friends all
the time is like, do I even have the right
to negotiate? And of course they do, but knowing how
to start, like you said, and building the confidence to
actually make the ask when the time comes can be
so difficult.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
But don't worry.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
We're going to guide you on how to nail your
first negotiation and everyone after that. All right, So today
we're talking all about negotiating, you know, getting that money.
And this is such an important topic because I remember
when I was starting out, I wish I had somebody
to talk to about negotiating. I had literally no idea
(01:45):
what I was doing, and because of that, you really
do lose out all money.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Not even to mention the fact that negotiating is super scary,
Like literally, when I negotiate anything, I want to throw up.
And we're gonna the sweat, the sweaty armpit, maybe a
little like you know, Tama.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Anyways, so today we're gonna be talking to a negotiation expert,
Mariy to Harry Poor. She'll be joining us in a
bit to share how to make sure you're advocating for
your worth in that conversation, from getting into the right
mindset all the way to actually making that ask.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I can't wait for us to talk to Maury, but
first I want to talk to you, Gionna. Tell us
about the first time you ever negotiated, and I already
can tell by how red you are getting. I want
to know maybe some key takeaways, some learnings, some mistakes.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Made great questions.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So yes, when I first negotiated, it was at LinkedIn
or spoiler failed to negotiate, I should say, But I
was a contractor and I went full time. So I
went through the recruitment process and had that conversation just
two disclaimers, which I know, like people don't like disclaimers,
but being a journalist in tech is pretty confusing. I
(02:55):
had no idea how much I could be making in
the tech industry. I knew around what I could be
ernie if I joined a traditional media company. And I
also was facing a lot of imposter syndrome, still do.
But I was like, oh my god, how am my
landing a tech job as a new grad.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's crazy?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And I wanted to go full time so badly that
I was willing to take basically whatever. So that was
one and then two coming from that contract. I didn't know,
you know, how much that will look annually guess what.
I totally could have did a little girl math and
figured that out, but I didn't. So mistake number one
is that I went in with no research whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yikes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, big yikes.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And so I remember that conversation with the recruiter and
I went in with like a very friendly vibe. I
was friendly with him right because I had worked here
and he had my best interest at heart. But the
truth is recruiters work for employers, so they're going to
offer you whatever that salary range is for the role.
So I went in with that mindset and he asked
(03:58):
me my salary expectations, dreadic question, and I was like, hm,
great question. I don't really know, but for context, if
it helps you, here's how much I'm earning. So helping
him hurting myself. Literally laid all my cards out on
the table and he was like okay, so Annie Lee
(04:21):
it was probably like X y Z like quick math.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I was like, whoa crazy?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
And then he shared the salary range for the role
and I was like that's great, great, that's it. So
I went home called my mom. I was like Mom,
like it's all happening, it's looking good. She's like Okay,
what do they say about pay? I told her the range.
She's like, well, what'd you say? And I was like, oh,
I just said that would be great. She's like, Jonny,
you didn't say like the higher end or anything.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I was like no.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So with guidance from my mom, I emailed and was like, hey,
would be great if it could be on the higher end.
All in all, it ended up being on you know,
it was higher than I had anticipated the offer and
I signed immediately, which is another mistake. And I learned
since then that some of my colleagues did negotiate, whether
(05:06):
it came to like the stock award or whatever it was.
I just was ready to sign eagerly. And the truth
is I was coming in with internship experience at LinkedIn
plus contract experience, and I didn't really.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Account for that.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I mean, I'm sure the company did because I know
they have my best interest because I had worked here,
But I totally just yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, sure, No.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I mean, honestly, your story probably resonates with a lot
of people because I'm sure a lot of people A
don't negotiate because it's scary, or be don't even know
how to properly research what they should be negotiating. So,
I mean the fact that you backtrack and was like, hey,
big heck, can we actually put a little bit more
money on the top. The fact that you even did
that was super. You know Ballsy's I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
They do it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I can literally see Gianna's mother just being.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
In the shadows my Italian mind.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I love, But I honestly, again, I think that you know,
you've learned a lot, and obviously you know, I think
mistakes are meant to be made so that you don't
make them again.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Know, I mentioned the going contract a full time was
kind of obscure. I'm wondering for you, when you like
being an entrepreneur, how did you approach and how do
you approach negotiating because I'm sure that is even more
you know, obscure.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, it's really terrifying. Again, like I said earlier, I
literally want to throw up. Even after a decade plus
of working in the creator economy, entertainment industry, I still
get very scared. But h yeah, when I first graduated,
I was working like very hourly gigs. I was I mean, bartending, waitressing,
I was transcribing like government docs for a while I
(06:45):
was a celebrity assistant for a while.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, girl, we need to get into that.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, we can definitely do that over mimosas. But like
I was doing a lot of jobs where like there
was a set rate, set fee. Even in acting, you
go on set, there is a set fee, like.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
For they say it said or did you assume.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There was Like there was no opportunity. No one ever
brought up Hey, this is like navigable, Like this is
a number, like just one number that you have, and
like that was it. And it was interesting because I'll
never forget. I was freelancing for a job, so it
was like an hourly right, and then I got an
opportunity to work in my quote unquote first tech job.
So I'm getting ready, like I know that the gig
(07:23):
is mine. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. And all
my friends were like, negotiate. I don't care if you
ask for five dollars, you need to negotiate. So what
I did was I did my version of girl math.
I took out like how much I'm making hourly, times
it by the hours, times it by the weeks, and
I was like, okay, so this is what my salary
looks like. Then I was like, I'm gonna add ten
thousand dollars more onto this. I'm gonna be living large.
(07:46):
I am Jamae Jackson Jefferson. I'm moving on up, baby, Gianna.
I got into the call because she called me, and
I'm like, okay, here we go, here we go, here
we go.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Throw right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I feel like i'mbout to get rapp. This is it.
And she started talking about pay and I don't know
what it was. I think I was just so nervous
that my mind just stopped working. I said nothing, which
actually was a blessing because I was about to be like,
this is how much I want. She instead said, well,
we're thinking about blah to blah. Why was the minimum
(08:22):
for that range thirty thousand dollars more than what I
was about to ask for? Oh my gosh, I said,
you know what, there is a savior.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, there is.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Something about you. Sothing did I said, good God, thank you?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And so I was like okay, And then you know,
now I'm trying to compose myself and I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Like, I think your voice is a crackee.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Literally.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I was like, I think we.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Could do something. I think this could work, and I
was like, yeah, this fine child. She kept going.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
She went on and talked about benefits that I didn't
hear nothing that woman said.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
At that point, I'm texting my mama. I'm texting my man.
I'm like, it's lit in this petty. We're about to
be up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
But this is why that story resonates. I got into
the job six months in. I'm working with a coworker,
you know, really cool, been there a couple of years longer.
We're talking, and this is back when talking about money
was still very taboo, and I don't know how it
came out, but he put out how much he was making,
(09:19):
and he he was making twenty thousand dollars more than
I was. And in that moment, my heart sank because
I said, you were so freaking giddy that you didn't
even ask if there was more for you, and you
still left money out on the table. That is so
seared in my memory that any job I took after that,
(09:40):
I negotiate it. In fact, it actually helped me because
then as a creator, I started negotiating with brands all
the time. You hop in my DMS, you hop in
my emails, and you like, can you do these deliverables
for this, where's the money? And then after that like no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
No, no no.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
First question is this paid?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The first question is it paid? Second of all is
it paid? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You will always negotiate, and I think one of the
biggest things I will say, I have never lost a
bag negotiating period.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And that's the biggest fear.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You think that they're gonna rescind the off one hundred
percent if you're that girl, they're not gonna take it away.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, unless you're asking some crazy astronomical number.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Jillion dollars, honest thing that probably max is out one
hundred k. Yeah, maybe so, because then they're like this
person might be a little off.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We don't need that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But like, for real, for real, I have never lost
an opportunity. I have never lost a bag for simply
asking for what I want. And in fact, I have
held myself up to the standard that if you can't
meet me at least where I need to be, maybe
this isn't a line. I have walked away from brand
deals and guess what, those brands circled the block years later,
and now all of a sudden, that rate that you
thought was too much, baby i'mna add.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Some tax on it.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, i'mna add it again, taxes three times, so I'm
gonna add some extra tax upon it, and then the jamaa.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Like, by the way, inflation's hire now.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
So.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
The rate has gone up. Okay, seriously, yesterday this price
is not today's price. And I say that because I
think if we take the ick out of negotiating, you
got to realize you are that person. You gotta realize
you got to bring those receipts, but you also got
to realize that like you are the prize you are.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But you're like firing me up. I'm like ready to
negotiat you right now.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, seriously, I negotiate everything, and the best practice that
I have done is start with the small stuff. I
negotiate with my husband what we're gonna eat tonight. So true,
because you know what it is. It's not even just
the money. I think that people are scared to negotiate
because sometimes I think subconsciously, you don't think you.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Deserve what you're about to ask for.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So now, if Babe wants Italian but I want Chinese,
I'm gonna negotiate. Well, maybe if we get Chinese, I'll
do the dishes or and it's so as silly as
that sounds, you being able to say this is wonderful,
but also blank gets you into the practice, and then
somehow it starts to trickle into all of these other aspects.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Of your life.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And you know what I love about that is it's
a compromise where I feel like a lot of people
approach negotiations feeling like it's either they win or I win.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's not a win lose situation.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It really is a win win situation, and it's all
about finding that compromise.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, And the last thing I'll say is that sometimes
I think we like, oh my gosh, I'm just so
happy about the name. I'm so happy about the job. Baby,
this is an exchange of goods and services. Like let's
keep it a stack. Like, yeah, you can love your job,
and I want you to find fulfillment in it. But
also remember you are providing something to them. They have
something to lose. So go up in there, put your
(12:31):
big girl, big boy panties on. Okay, practice in the mirror,
you know, say candy man three times, whatever you gotta
do to get in the mode. Because baby, when it's
time to go it's time to go.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Oh, I'm routed up. Gee, what are we gonna he said?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
What she said.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
After the break, we're talking with negotiation expert more to
Harry Poor, who is gonna share why we all, yes,
including you, have the power to negotiate. So gian and
I have been talking all about negotiating, but the reality is,
(13:10):
I know a lot of you guys have questions. Thankfully,
we have an expert today who is going to help
us all out in the world of negotiating. Gianna, you
want to introduce our special guests.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yes, I'm so excited, Mari to Harry Port is joining
us now. She is a negotiation expert who works with students.
She teaches negotiation and dispute resolution at U Penn's Warton School.
She's also the author of Bringing Yourself, How to Harness
the Power of Connection to Negotiate Fearlessly. Marie, thanks so
much for joining us.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
So excited to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yay. We're so excited for the convo and we're going
to kick it off with our segment called Dear Work Bestie,
which is where we address listener questions and one we
got this week is from Kristen in California.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
I just graduated college and I'm about to start looking
for my first four time job. I've done some internships,
but I feel like I don't have the right to
negotiate because this is kind of my first real job.
Where would I even start? What should I be thinking
about before talking to my future manager?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So Maria, I'll kick us off because I think we
all have been in Kristen's spot before. I think when
she said the whole I don't have the right to
negotiate that, my eye twitched a little bit because I
was like, negotiate.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So let's ask a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Hesitation around negotiating is usually understanding what's even on the
table to begin with. What's your advice for people like
Kristen who are unsure what to even ask for in
the first place.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Well, part of negotiations is just having a conversation, right,
and everybody has the right to have a conversation. So
a lot of people think just because it's a negotiations,
that means you have to jump into this sort of
transaction all back and forth. That's not it at all.
If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,
then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.
(14:59):
It doesn't have to be a win lose thing, it
doesn't have to be a transaction.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
In my mind, I.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Think about it as problem solving. I think about it
as two people getting to know one another, and that
really sort of takes away some of that tension. The
other is that I heard I haven't really had a job.
I haven't think this is really the first sort of
job that I'm going to have. That's not true at all.
I think, especially a lot of college students have so
(15:24):
much experience doing so many different things, whether they're in clubs,
whether they have part time jobs, whether they've had experience
before even going into college. If they sit down and
create sort of an inventory of all the different experiences
leadership type experiences that they've had, go back and reorient
yourself right, and then think about the negotiations as an
opportunity to tell your story.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I definitely can relate to Kristin because when I got
my first job offer, I was like, just I'm so
grateful to have this. I'm not going to try to
rock the boat in any way. And a lot of
younger people do fear losing their offer if they negotiate,
but I'm wondering, how do you get into the right mindset?
So it's not who am I to negotiate, but this
idea that I do have the right.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
When we don't feel confident, we show that we're not confident.
And I think that's a really big deal. So I
think if you have mentors, if you have people that
you can rehearse in front of, it's having somebody there
that maybe you feel comfortable with, that's been supporting you
and having them just there. It's not like they walk
right into the interview with you, but just even sort
of having somebody that's sort of helping you overcome some
(16:32):
of those like the mind games that we play with ourselves. Right,
So like, never be shy about saying I'm struggling with
telling my own narrative. Can you help me? That loved
one that the people you surround yourself with, their job
at that point is like to hold up the mirror
to you and to look at yourself and know that
you deserve to be there, that you've accomplished so much
(16:53):
in your life to find a way to talk about
it with both humility and confidence, right and really being
able to understand that you absolutely have a place at
that table. You're there for a reason. They didn't just
randomly select somebody. You're already there, So how are you
going to sell yourself now?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Marey.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I love all of that, and you're absolutely right, you
are there for a reason. But on the research aspect,
what should people like Kristen be doing before they even
enter the conversation?
Speaker 5 (17:25):
So prepare, prepare, prepare, Right, Above all, there's no excuses
anymore not to know certain pieces of information. I mean,
you can google anything these days and you will get
more information than you probably even want to get at
this point, right, So learn about the company, try to
figure out who you're supposed to be interviewing with, learn
(17:45):
more about them, learn about the position, right, and then
maybe even that position in other sort of competing companies
in the same industry, just so that you can maybe
understand better about sort of salary expectations, what the expectations
are of that role, any type of sort of gaps
(18:05):
in knowledge that you actually have at that point as well.
Take note of that, because what you also want to
do is come up with a list of questions that
you want to ask once you're in that interview, right,
at some point they're going to say, do you have
any questions for me? And you really at that point
don't say nope, no, that was it, right. This is
your opportunity to showcase not only what you don't know,
(18:26):
but how you want to grow in that role, that
that you're curious, that you're intellectually curious, that you want
to know more about it. And by the way, I'm
so prepared then I know the exactly types of things
that I still want to learn about this company that
I didn't know already. M hm.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And honestly, I love that you started this whole thing
off by saying that this is just a conversation.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Guys, Like seriously, you can go in there thinking I'm
an adult, You're an adult. We are too adult tiving
this conversation, and it helps take some of that fear
and honestly some of the pressure off. But more like
you said, I love that research. Understanding your values, understanding
where you are and where you want to go, and
knowing that you have that power is really where we
all should be thinking about. Like, these are great takeaways.
(19:11):
So Mari, while we've got you here, I think we
should put some of these great tips into practice. So
we're going to read a couple of different negotiation scenarios.
We want you to let us know what you think
about how the person presented in those situations responded.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Did they do well?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Did they not? What could they improve on? So I'll
start us off. So situation number one is responding to
what are your salary expectations? Oh my god, my armpits
are sweaty already. Okay, here we go. I'm a recent
grad and in the process of applying for jobs in marketing.
I have a couple of internships under my belt and
have held leadership roles in various college organizations related to
(19:51):
my field of interest. I get an interview for an
entry level job offering a salary range of fifty to
sixty thousand dollars based on experience. The company offers health
benefits and adjacent PTO. The interview goes well, then the
manager asks me, so, what are your salary expectations? That's
my manager voice, what are your salary expectations? And I answer, well,
(20:15):
I understand this is my first job out of college,
so I might not have as much experience as other
candidates you're considering. With that in mind, I would like
my starting salary to be in the fifty to fifty
five thousand dollars range. Mariy woof. Okay, what did this
person do well? And what do you think they can improve?
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Improve everything? So the first is I know that's so terrible.
The part that got me was that I may not
be as experienced as everybody else that you're interviewing. First
of all, if you're not, they already know that, right,
So like you don't have to be like, Hi, I'm
not as good as everybody else. Now, I think if
(20:58):
you are going to say that and say like professional
experience maybe or you know, experience in this particular position
that you're getting, you can say that, but immediately it
has to be followed up with but I've been in
leadership roles in Da da Da Da Da. I've had
this type of experience with transferable skills and.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
X, Y and Z.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
So you can't just put that out there and let
it sort of drop like a lead balloon.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
You have to have a narrative that you know both
says I recognize that X, but let me create a
through line so you can understand why I'm as good
as those other candidates. Potentially, if not maybe have more
interesting experience, because you need that in order to say
(21:46):
I want a higher salary than the bare minimum salary, right,
you sort of have to create sort that first narrative
for it and then follow it out. The other thing
is that when you talk about ranges like fifty to
fifty five, people only hear one number. Right. That's the
thing about a range. They're going to hear the number
that is most beneficial to them. So understand that. So
(22:08):
if it is a trick that you want to use,
always sort of start with even that higher, higher range
so that the one the lowest number is the one
that's on the upper end of that. You know. So
I would say something like fifty eight to fifty five,
let's say fifty five where you want to land. But
the minute you say fifty five or fifty to fifty five,
that recruiter is going to hear one number, and that
(22:29):
was fifty. So really sort of the psychology of ranges
really interesting play in a way that is most beneficial
to you.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
All right, Mariy, I got situation number two for you,
which is negotiating when you're making a career pivot. I've
been working in finance for a few years now, and
I'm ready to look for a new job. I'm looking
for mid level positions, ideally opportunities that allow room for
growth and maybe even a chance to move up within
the company. I get a job offer from a company
(22:59):
that I've always and I've wanted to work with for
a long time. Unfortunately, after some back and forth, they're
only willing to offer me the lower end of the
position salary range. The salary is lower than what I
was hoping for, but I'm willing to accept the offer
because I really want to work at this company. I
tell them before I consider accepting this offer, I want
to make sure that there will be opportunities to grow
(23:19):
in this position, whether that be salary bumps or chances
to move up in the company. Maybe in six months,
can we review my performance and see if it warns
a pay increase?
Speaker 5 (23:29):
What do you think that's a better scenario?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Didn't give you heart?
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Publications?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Not as much I was.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I even found myself smiling at one point. I would
say a couple of things. Unless you've gone through several
rounds and that like, we just can't go any higher
than this. If that is really all they can do,
then I really love this notion of okay, And I
(23:58):
should say that actually for all of these interviews, especially
if you're going to get into certain negotiating any part
of the compensation package, telling the company you really want
to be there is great, right, because you'd never want
a lot of my students say, well, I'm waiting for
job offers from a couple of these companies, Should I
tell them? And I said no, don't put companies up
(24:20):
against each other, right, You'd never want anyone to feel
like they're your second or third option, right, So telling
them you want to be there, telling them this is
the company where you want to be is point one.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That was really good. And the other thing is that
this notion of okay, I understand that you all can't
do anymore right now, and I'm willing to work with
you because this is where I want to be. However,
can we come up with a creative way that maybe
we can revisit this salary in six months? Please evaluate me? Right?
(24:54):
The other thing I heard from that was please evaluate
me because i know I'm going to be so successful
in this role. So, like, those are all the things
that I was hearing through the messaging of that right,
because it's saying one you're confident that you're going to perform, too,
that yeah, this salary is actually low, but I'm giving something,
(25:15):
so what are you giving to me in return? Right,
Never give up something without expecting something in return for it.
And the third thing is that, look, just because you're
saying no now, it doesn't mean that it has been
no forever. I want to know if we can come
back to this. I'd love to have this conversation again,
because then you should also be telling yourself, Okay, what
if it's six months it turns out to be a year,
(25:37):
and what if a year turns out to be eighteen
months and they still haven't done something? Right? So I
really actually like that scenario a lot of things about it.
You're also really certain that this is the company you
want to be at, and I think that that will
make for better engagement on your part as well.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Yes, I love what you just said. No doesn't mean
no forever, maybe just not right now. So I know
I learned a lot from this conversation, Maury. I know
Jimmy did as well, and we hope everybody listening takes
away some actionable advice. So thank you so much for
joining us, Maury. It was really great talking with you.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
All right, I need to go get more coffee. You
should too, and we'll be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Gee, Maury was awesome. I love her. I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Especially in the role play sanction. I feel like I'm
empowered to do the redit ago. One of the things
that I really really took away from that interview was
just how big of a role imposter syndrome plays into
all of this. While you got to dead that from
the jump, like you gotta leave it at the door, right,
because it will keep you from negotiating, It will keep
(26:56):
you from asking your worth.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
What did you take away from the interview?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
I loved her emphasis on preparation, especially coming from my
place where I didn't prepare whatsoever for my first negotiation.
And I think what was so important in that piece
is this idea of like going in with your numbers,
knowing what you're worth, so understanding in this industry, in
this job where I'm living, how much can I potentially
(27:20):
earn in this role? And you do that by searching
online speaking to people in that desired industry. So that
you go in with numbers because you can't debate the facts.
Like the thing is the facts you can't you can't
debate that, and I think too, it also helps you
take away some of the emotion that we, you know,
naturally feel when it comes to negotiating. So it really
(27:41):
is you coming in being like, here's what the numbers
are showing me. Really come in prepared with what you
want out of this negotiation and understand everything that's possible
to you. And at the end of the day, like
you'll listen to this episode and I hope you take
away that one you have the right to negotiate and
(28:01):
your offer is not at risk. But still it's going
to be nerve wracking, Like there's no perfect way to
completely get rid of those nerves. So you really just
have to start doing it and celebrate the small wins,
which is probably just asking, right, Like maybe you don't
land the high salary, but you get something else, and
just the fact that you made the ask is a win,
So celebrate that, and each time you do it, you'll
(28:23):
only get more and more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Heck, yeah, okay, So Gianna, you know I love to
play games over here.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm never serious.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So I want to talk about our next segment, which
is called show the Receipts.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Maybe I love receipts all day? Call me a textag.
My receipts are so organized. I love this.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We're going to be discussing some pretty common myths about
young people at work and why they're wrong or not.
You want to know this week's hot take, give it
to me. So I was reading this article Unfortune that
came out this year, and it was discussing how gen
Z is totally over having their work epic questioned. It
(29:02):
brought up Gianna's eyes are watering like, it brought up
conversations around gen Z.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Are you guys lazy? Are you guys like tapped in
at work?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
What is going on? Giana? What do you think about?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
This?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Is gen Z lazy at work?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Jamay?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Thank you so much asking This is the one that
really gets my blood boiling because I think it's such
a generalization. No, I do not think gen Z is
lazy at work. I think when we saw this narrative
begin to pick up, it was around the quiet quitting trend,
which is this idea that people want to do the
bare minimum at work and a lot of the articles
(29:42):
were saying, you know, gen Z wants to clock out
at five, which like, because we have to go to
other jobs. Like that is the reality of it, right,
whether you have your own company, whether you have a
part time gig after work, gen Z is known to
be working multiple jobs. So I think I'm also like,
how how the heck did we get to the point
where like leaving at five is considered lazy, Like, come
(30:04):
on that, I'm scared for our future. Transparently, if I'm
done at five, I'm leaving like I'm going to head home, right.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I think Two is we.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Want to be paid for the work that we are
asked to do, so that is just I'll leave it there,
like we want to be paid. The other part of
it too, though, I will say, like what is lazy, right?
Is it because we want to clock out at five?
Is it on the job like during the day, Like,
you know, why are we being painted that way? And
I do think listen, like give us some space to
(30:34):
learn and grow. A lot of us are early in
our careers. We're learning how to experience corporate life for
the first time, and maybe some of us will need,
you know, extra support. Yeah, I think that's on us
to also know when to ask. It's something I've had
to learn when to raise my hand and say, like
I actually might need a little bit help on this,
rather than just like sitting there being like I don't
even know what to do. So I think that's part
(30:56):
of it too, right, like maybe we just need a
little bit extra support and like need those my doors
need that management early on. But the headline, I would say, yes,
we're over being questioned on our work ethic, and.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Now I do not think gen Z's I see.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, I feel love it about you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I love what you said, especially around like the fact
that a lot of people have a lot of jobs.
Because for the first like almost decade of my career,
I had multiple jobs. So I would get up, I
would clock into my nine to five, I would clock
out by a certain time because I knew that I
had to go in the back when I was like
doing waitressing or bartending and then hit the floor, and
then I was coming home and then still working on
(31:35):
my brand, or even when I was just freelancing, I
gotta go home, I gotta make deadline right. And so
I have always known that there is a hard start
and a hard stop to my day. And I think
that when jobs are seeing that you don't want to
do that, but you still are getting the work done.
They're just a little like why are you not fully
invested one thousand percent in here? But the reality is,
(31:58):
like you have other things to do, respectfully. I think
gen Z sets really strong boundaries and it maybe triggers
other people who don't have boundaries, setting me guils.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Them like think, okay, well why do I have a
problem with that?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, but baby girl, like no one's telling you to
clock back in at eight pm to answer emails, like
and if you are really, then you really? I mean
I do too, but that's because I'm already up at night.
But like if you if you are finding that you
are over extending yourself. Those are conversations that you need
to have either with your manager or when you are
(32:33):
even looking at like you know, your corporate wish list,
like asking those things to the employer, like what do
the hours look like? Do you allow for flexible working hours?
Can I clock out to go pick up my kid
or to go to the store or whatever, Like I mean,
don't maybe don't tell them if you're going to go
to like the store, but like there are things that
you can ask right so that you can kind of.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Plan your day out.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I think a couple of videos that just happen to
be gen z ers have gone viral and people are
trying to make reductions about the entire workforce. They did
the same thing with the millennials.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
I E. ME.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So I just think that every generation is gonna We're
gonna say the same thing about jen Alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, in a few years, there's gonna be something new.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's whoever's in the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
H literally, So you just gotta do you and just
keep doing it.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I will try all of us will try it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, guys, that was a really awesome episode, if I
do say so myself.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Thank you so much more for joining us.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Remember we also have a newsletter it's called Let's Talk Offline,
where we talk even more about the topics we discuss
on the pod. The link of the newsletter will be
in the show description and it's also my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Oh yes, Also, I gotta give a quick shout out
to Kristin. Thank you so much Kristin for your question
this week. Gian and I loved answering it. But it
doesn't just have to be Kristin. You guys can also
send us your questions. Information on how to do that
is also in that show description.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
And if you're not already, make sure you guys are
following the show and leave us a rating and review
while you're at it. Okay, one last thing, remember we
have always got your back, so if something comes up
in the meantime, Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And I'm Jamie Jackson Gadsden, Stay Thriving.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dealey. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etore.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is Head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(34:52):
chief of LinkedIn
LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm sure a lot of people A don't negotiate because
it's scary, or be don't even know how to properly
research what they should be negotiating. So I mean the
fact that you backtrack and was like, hey, big heck,
can we actually put a little bit more money on
the top. The fact that you even did that was
super you know, ballsy, So I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I have to do it.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
From LinkedIn News and I heart podcasts, this is Let's
Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
sanity or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudenti and I'm Jamaye Jackson Gadsden.
You guys, can I be honest?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
One of the scariest things to me about job offers
is negotiating.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Honestly, where do I even start? Can I negotiate more
than just my salary?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And asking for too much? Am I asking for too little?
Can I take time off from work? There's just a
lot of things that are running through my head and
there's honestly too much to consider.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
So true, and something I hear from my friends all
the time is like, do I even have the right
to negotiate? And of course they do, but knowing how
to start, like you said, and building the confidence to
actually make the ask when the time comes can be
so difficult.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
But don't worry.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
We're going to guide you on how to nail your
first negotiation and everyone after that. All right, So today
we're talking all about negotiating, you know, getting that money.
And this is such an important topic because I remember
when I was starting out, I wish I had somebody
to talk to about negotiating. I had literally no idea
(01:45):
what I was doing, and because of that, you really
do lose out all money.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Not even to mention the fact that negotiating is super scary,
Like literally, when I negotiate anything, I want to throw up.
And we're gonna the sweat, the sweaty armpit, maybe a
little like you know, Tama.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Anyways, so today we're gonna be talking to a negotiation expert,
Mariy to Harry Poor. She'll be joining us in a
bit to share how to make sure you're advocating for
your worth in that conversation, from getting into the right
mindset all the way to actually making that ask.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I can't wait for us to talk to Maury, but
first I want to talk to you, Gionna. Tell us
about the first time you ever negotiated, and I already
can tell by how red you are getting. I want
to know maybe some key takeaways, some learnings, some mistakes.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Made great questions.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So yes, when I first negotiated, it was at LinkedIn
or spoiler failed to negotiate, I should say, But I
was a contractor and I went full time. So I
went through the recruitment process and had that conversation just
two disclaimers, which I know, like people don't like disclaimers,
but being a journalist in tech is pretty confusing. I
(02:55):
had no idea how much I could be making in
the tech industry. I knew around what I could be
ernie if I joined a traditional media company. And I
also was facing a lot of imposter syndrome, still do.
But I was like, oh my god, how am my
landing a tech job as a new grad.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's crazy?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And I wanted to go full time so badly that
I was willing to take basically whatever. So that was
one and then two coming from that contract. I didn't know,
you know, how much that will look annually guess what.
I totally could have did a little girl math and
figured that out, but I didn't. So mistake number one
is that I went in with no research whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yikes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, big yikes.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And so I remember that conversation with the recruiter and
I went in with like a very friendly vibe. I
was friendly with him right because I had worked here
and he had my best interest at heart. But the
truth is recruiters work for employers, so they're going to
offer you whatever that salary range is for the role.
So I went in with that mindset and he asked
(03:58):
me my salary expectations, dreadic question, and I was like, hm,
great question. I don't really know, but for context, if
it helps you, here's how much I'm earning. So helping
him hurting myself. Literally laid all my cards out on
the table and he was like okay, so Annie Lee
(04:21):
it was probably like X y Z like quick math.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I was like, whoa crazy?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
And then he shared the salary range for the role
and I was like that's great, great, that's it. So
I went home called my mom. I was like Mom,
like it's all happening, it's looking good. She's like Okay,
what do they say about pay? I told her the range.
She's like, well, what'd you say? And I was like, oh,
I just said that would be great. She's like, Jonny,
you didn't say like the higher end or anything.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I was like no.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So with guidance from my mom, I emailed and was like, hey,
would be great if it could be on the higher end.
All in all, it ended up being on you know,
it was higher than I had anticipated the offer and
I signed immediately, which is another mistake. And I learned
since then that some of my colleagues did negotiate, whether
(05:06):
it came to like the stock award or whatever it was.
I just was ready to sign eagerly. And the truth
is I was coming in with internship experience at LinkedIn
plus contract experience, and I didn't really.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Account for that.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I mean, I'm sure the company did because I know
they have my best interest because I had worked here,
But I totally just yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, sure, No.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I mean, honestly, your story probably resonates with a lot
of people because I'm sure a lot of people A
don't negotiate because it's scary, or be don't even know
how to properly research what they should be negotiating. So,
I mean the fact that you backtrack and was like, hey,
big heck, can we actually put a little bit more
money on the top. The fact that you even did
that was super. You know Ballsy's I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
They do it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I can literally see Gianna's mother just being.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
In the shadows my Italian mind.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I love, But I honestly, again, I think that you know,
you've learned a lot, and obviously you know, I think
mistakes are meant to be made so that you don't
make them again.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Know, I mentioned the going contract a full time was
kind of obscure. I'm wondering for you, when you like
being an entrepreneur, how did you approach and how do
you approach negotiating because I'm sure that is even more
you know, obscure.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, it's really terrifying. Again, like I said earlier, I
literally want to throw up. Even after a decade plus
of working in the creator economy, entertainment industry, I still
get very scared. But h yeah, when I first graduated,
I was working like very hourly gigs. I was I mean, bartending, waitressing,
I was transcribing like government docs for a while I
(06:45):
was a celebrity assistant for a while.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, girl, we need to get into that.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, we can definitely do that over mimosas. But like
I was doing a lot of jobs where like there
was a set rate, set fee. Even in acting, you
go on set, there is a set fee, like.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
For they say it said or did you assume.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There was Like there was no opportunity. No one ever
brought up Hey, this is like navigable, Like this is
a number, like just one number that you have, and
like that was it. And it was interesting because I'll
never forget. I was freelancing for a job, so it
was like an hourly right, and then I got an
opportunity to work in my quote unquote first tech job.
So I'm getting ready, like I know that the gig
(07:23):
is mine. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. And all
my friends were like, negotiate. I don't care if you
ask for five dollars, you need to negotiate. So what
I did was I did my version of girl math.
I took out like how much I'm making hourly, times
it by the hours, times it by the weeks, and
I was like, okay, so this is what my salary
looks like. Then I was like, I'm gonna add ten
thousand dollars more onto this. I'm gonna be living large.
(07:46):
I am Jamae Jackson Jefferson. I'm moving on up, baby, Gianna.
I got into the call because she called me, and
I'm like, okay, here we go, here we go, here
we go.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Throw right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I feel like i'mbout to get rapp. This is it.
And she started talking about pay and I don't know
what it was. I think I was just so nervous
that my mind just stopped working. I said nothing, which
actually was a blessing because I was about to be like,
this is how much I want. She instead said, well,
we're thinking about blah to blah. Why was the minimum
(08:22):
for that range thirty thousand dollars more than what I
was about to ask for? Oh my gosh, I said,
you know what, there is a savior.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, there is.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Something about you. Sothing did I said, good God, thank you?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And so I was like okay, And then you know,
now I'm trying to compose myself and I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Like, I think your voice is a crackee.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Literally.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I was like, I think we.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Could do something. I think this could work, and I
was like, yeah, this fine child. She kept going.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
She went on and talked about benefits that I didn't
hear nothing that woman said.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
At that point, I'm texting my mama. I'm texting my man.
I'm like, it's lit in this petty. We're about to
be up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
But this is why that story resonates. I got into
the job six months in. I'm working with a coworker,
you know, really cool, been there a couple of years longer.
We're talking, and this is back when talking about money
was still very taboo, and I don't know how it
came out, but he put out how much he was making,
(09:19):
and he he was making twenty thousand dollars more than
I was. And in that moment, my heart sank because
I said, you were so freaking giddy that you didn't
even ask if there was more for you, and you
still left money out on the table. That is so
seared in my memory that any job I took after that,
(09:40):
I negotiate it. In fact, it actually helped me because
then as a creator, I started negotiating with brands all
the time. You hop in my DMS, you hop in
my emails, and you like, can you do these deliverables
for this, where's the money? And then after that like no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
No, no no.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
First question is this paid?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
The first question is it paid? Second of all is
it paid? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You will always negotiate, and I think one of the
biggest things I will say, I have never lost a
bag negotiating period.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And that's the biggest fear.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You think that they're gonna rescind the off one hundred
percent if you're that girl, they're not gonna take it away.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, unless you're asking some crazy astronomical number.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Jillion dollars, honest thing that probably max is out one
hundred k. Yeah, maybe so, because then they're like this
person might be a little off.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We don't need that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But like, for real, for real, I have never lost
an opportunity. I have never lost a bag for simply
asking for what I want. And in fact, I have
held myself up to the standard that if you can't
meet me at least where I need to be, maybe
this isn't a line. I have walked away from brand
deals and guess what, those brands circled the block years later,
and now all of a sudden, that rate that you
thought was too much, baby i'mna add.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Some tax on it.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, i'mna add it again, taxes three times, so I'm
gonna add some extra tax upon it, and then the jamaa.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Like, by the way, inflation's hire now.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
So.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
The rate has gone up. Okay, seriously, yesterday this price
is not today's price. And I say that because I
think if we take the ick out of negotiating, you
got to realize you are that person. You gotta realize
you got to bring those receipts, but you also got
to realize that like you are the prize you are.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But you're like firing me up. I'm like ready to
negotiat you right now.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, seriously, I negotiate everything, and the best practice that
I have done is start with the small stuff. I
negotiate with my husband what we're gonna eat tonight. So true,
because you know what it is. It's not even just
the money. I think that people are scared to negotiate
because sometimes I think subconsciously, you don't think you.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Deserve what you're about to ask for.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So now, if Babe wants Italian but I want Chinese,
I'm gonna negotiate. Well, maybe if we get Chinese, I'll
do the dishes or and it's so as silly as
that sounds, you being able to say this is wonderful,
but also blank gets you into the practice, and then
somehow it starts to trickle into all of these other aspects.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Of your life.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And you know what I love about that is it's
a compromise where I feel like a lot of people
approach negotiations feeling like it's either they win or I win.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's not a win lose situation.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It really is a win win situation, and it's all
about finding that compromise.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, And the last thing I'll say is that sometimes
I think we like, oh my gosh, I'm just so
happy about the name. I'm so happy about the job. Baby,
this is an exchange of goods and services. Like let's
keep it a stack. Like, yeah, you can love your job,
and I want you to find fulfillment in it. But
also remember you are providing something to them. They have
something to lose. So go up in there, put your
(12:31):
big girl, big boy panties on. Okay, practice in the mirror,
you know, say candy man three times, whatever you gotta
do to get in the mode. Because baby, when it's
time to go it's time to go.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Oh, I'm routed up. Gee, what are we gonna he said?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
What she said.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
After the break, we're talking with negotiation expert more to
Harry Poor, who is gonna share why we all, yes,
including you, have the power to negotiate. So gian and
I have been talking all about negotiating, but the reality is,
(13:10):
I know a lot of you guys have questions. Thankfully,
we have an expert today who is going to help
us all out in the world of negotiating. Gianna, you
want to introduce our special guests.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yes, I'm so excited, Mari to Harry Port is joining
us now. She is a negotiation expert who works with students.
She teaches negotiation and dispute resolution at U Penn's Warton School.
She's also the author of Bringing Yourself, How to Harness
the Power of Connection to Negotiate Fearlessly. Marie, thanks so
much for joining us.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
So excited to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yay. We're so excited for the convo and we're going
to kick it off with our segment called Dear Work Bestie,
which is where we address listener questions and one we
got this week is from Kristen in California.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
I just graduated college and I'm about to start looking
for my first four time job. I've done some internships,
but I feel like I don't have the right to
negotiate because this is kind of my first real job.
Where would I even start? What should I be thinking
about before talking to my future manager?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So Maria, I'll kick us off because I think we
all have been in Kristen's spot before. I think when
she said the whole I don't have the right to
negotiate that, my eye twitched a little bit because I
was like, negotiate.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So let's ask a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Hesitation around negotiating is usually understanding what's even on the
table to begin with. What's your advice for people like
Kristen who are unsure what to even ask for in
the first place.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Well, part of negotiations is just having a conversation, right,
and everybody has the right to have a conversation. So
a lot of people think just because it's a negotiations,
that means you have to jump into this sort of
transaction all back and forth. That's not it at all.
If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,
then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.
(14:59):
It doesn't have to be a win lose thing, it
doesn't have to be a transaction.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
In my mind, I.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Think about it as problem solving. I think about it
as two people getting to know one another, and that
really sort of takes away some of that tension. The
other is that I heard I haven't really had a job.
I haven't think this is really the first sort of
job that I'm going to have. That's not true at all.
I think, especially a lot of college students have so
(15:24):
much experience doing so many different things, whether they're in clubs,
whether they have part time jobs, whether they've had experience
before even going into college. If they sit down and
create sort of an inventory of all the different experiences
leadership type experiences that they've had, go back and reorient
yourself right, and then think about the negotiations as an
opportunity to tell your story.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I definitely can relate to Kristin because when I got
my first job offer, I was like, just I'm so
grateful to have this. I'm not going to try to
rock the boat in any way. And a lot of
younger people do fear losing their offer if they negotiate,
but I'm wondering, how do you get into the right mindset?
So it's not who am I to negotiate, but this
idea that I do have the right.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
When we don't feel confident, we show that we're not confident.
And I think that's a really big deal. So I
think if you have mentors, if you have people that
you can rehearse in front of, it's having somebody there
that maybe you feel comfortable with, that's been supporting you
and having them just there. It's not like they walk
right into the interview with you, but just even sort
of having somebody that's sort of helping you overcome some
(16:32):
of those like the mind games that we play with ourselves. Right,
So like, never be shy about saying I'm struggling with
telling my own narrative. Can you help me? That loved
one that the people you surround yourself with, their job
at that point is like to hold up the mirror
to you and to look at yourself and know that
you deserve to be there, that you've accomplished so much
(16:53):
in your life to find a way to talk about
it with both humility and confidence, right and really being
able to understand that you absolutely have a place at
that table. You're there for a reason. They didn't just
randomly select somebody. You're already there, So how are you
going to sell yourself now?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Marey.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I love all of that, and you're absolutely right, you
are there for a reason. But on the research aspect,
what should people like Kristen be doing before they even
enter the conversation?
Speaker 5 (17:25):
So prepare, prepare, prepare, Right, Above all, there's no excuses
anymore not to know certain pieces of information. I mean,
you can google anything these days and you will get
more information than you probably even want to get at
this point, right, So learn about the company, try to
figure out who you're supposed to be interviewing with, learn
(17:45):
more about them, learn about the position, right, and then
maybe even that position in other sort of competing companies
in the same industry, just so that you can maybe
understand better about sort of salary expectations, what the expectations
are of that role, any type of sort of gaps
(18:05):
in knowledge that you actually have at that point as well.
Take note of that, because what you also want to
do is come up with a list of questions that
you want to ask once you're in that interview, right,
at some point they're going to say, do you have
any questions for me? And you really at that point
don't say nope, no, that was it, right. This is
your opportunity to showcase not only what you don't know,
(18:26):
but how you want to grow in that role, that
that you're curious, that you're intellectually curious, that you want
to know more about it. And by the way, I'm
so prepared then I know the exactly types of things
that I still want to learn about this company that
I didn't know already. M hm.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And honestly, I love that you started this whole thing
off by saying that this is just a conversation.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Guys, Like seriously, you can go in there thinking I'm
an adult, You're an adult. We are too adult tiving
this conversation, and it helps take some of that fear
and honestly some of the pressure off. But more like
you said, I love that research. Understanding your values, understanding
where you are and where you want to go, and
knowing that you have that power is really where we
all should be thinking about. Like, these are great takeaways.
(19:11):
So Mari, while we've got you here, I think we
should put some of these great tips into practice. So
we're going to read a couple of different negotiation scenarios.
We want you to let us know what you think
about how the person presented in those situations responded.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Did they do well?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Did they not? What could they improve on? So I'll
start us off. So situation number one is responding to
what are your salary expectations? Oh my god, my armpits
are sweaty already. Okay, here we go. I'm a recent
grad and in the process of applying for jobs in marketing.
I have a couple of internships under my belt and
have held leadership roles in various college organizations related to
(19:51):
my field of interest. I get an interview for an
entry level job offering a salary range of fifty to
sixty thousand dollars based on experience. The company offers health
benefits and adjacent PTO. The interview goes well, then the
manager asks me, so, what are your salary expectations? That's
my manager voice, what are your salary expectations? And I answer, well,
(20:15):
I understand this is my first job out of college,
so I might not have as much experience as other
candidates you're considering. With that in mind, I would like
my starting salary to be in the fifty to fifty
five thousand dollars range. Mariy woof. Okay, what did this
person do well? And what do you think they can improve?
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Improve everything? So the first is I know that's so terrible.
The part that got me was that I may not
be as experienced as everybody else that you're interviewing. First
of all, if you're not, they already know that, right,
So like you don't have to be like, Hi, I'm
not as good as everybody else. Now, I think if
(20:58):
you are going to say that and say like professional
experience maybe or you know, experience in this particular position
that you're getting, you can say that, but immediately it
has to be followed up with but I've been in
leadership roles in Da da Da Da Da. I've had
this type of experience with transferable skills and.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
X, Y and Z.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
So you can't just put that out there and let
it sort of drop like a lead balloon.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
You have to have a narrative that you know both
says I recognize that X, but let me create a
through line so you can understand why I'm as good
as those other candidates. Potentially, if not maybe have more
interesting experience, because you need that in order to say
(21:46):
I want a higher salary than the bare minimum salary, right,
you sort of have to create sort that first narrative
for it and then follow it out. The other thing
is that when you talk about ranges like fifty to
fifty five, people only hear one number. Right. That's the
thing about a range. They're going to hear the number
that is most beneficial to them. So understand that. So
(22:08):
if it is a trick that you want to use,
always sort of start with even that higher, higher range
so that the one the lowest number is the one
that's on the upper end of that. You know. So
I would say something like fifty eight to fifty five,
let's say fifty five where you want to land. But
the minute you say fifty five or fifty to fifty five,
that recruiter is going to hear one number, and that
(22:29):
was fifty. So really sort of the psychology of ranges
really interesting play in a way that is most beneficial
to you.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
All right, Mariy, I got situation number two for you,
which is negotiating when you're making a career pivot. I've
been working in finance for a few years now, and
I'm ready to look for a new job. I'm looking
for mid level positions, ideally opportunities that allow room for
growth and maybe even a chance to move up within
the company. I get a job offer from a company
(22:59):
that I've always and I've wanted to work with for
a long time. Unfortunately, after some back and forth, they're
only willing to offer me the lower end of the
position salary range. The salary is lower than what I
was hoping for, but I'm willing to accept the offer
because I really want to work at this company. I
tell them before I consider accepting this offer, I want
to make sure that there will be opportunities to grow
(23:19):
in this position, whether that be salary bumps or chances
to move up in the company. Maybe in six months,
can we review my performance and see if it warns
a pay increase?
Speaker 5 (23:29):
What do you think that's a better scenario?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Didn't give you heart?
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Publications?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Not as much I was.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I even found myself smiling at one point. I would
say a couple of things. Unless you've gone through several
rounds and that like, we just can't go any higher
than this. If that is really all they can do,
then I really love this notion of okay, And I
(23:58):
should say that actually for all of these interviews, especially
if you're going to get into certain negotiating any part
of the compensation package, telling the company you really want
to be there is great, right, because you'd never want
a lot of my students say, well, I'm waiting for
job offers from a couple of these companies, Should I
tell them? And I said no, don't put companies up
(24:20):
against each other, right, You'd never want anyone to feel
like they're your second or third option, right, So telling
them you want to be there, telling them this is
the company where you want to be is point one.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That was really good. And the other thing is that
this notion of okay, I understand that you all can't
do anymore right now, and I'm willing to work with
you because this is where I want to be. However,
can we come up with a creative way that maybe
we can revisit this salary in six months? Please evaluate me? Right?
(24:54):
The other thing I heard from that was please evaluate
me because i know I'm going to be so successful
in this role. So, like, those are all the things
that I was hearing through the messaging of that right,
because it's saying one you're confident that you're going to perform, too,
that yeah, this salary is actually low, but I'm giving something,
(25:15):
so what are you giving to me in return? Right,
Never give up something without expecting something in return for it.
And the third thing is that, look, just because you're
saying no now, it doesn't mean that it has been
no forever. I want to know if we can come
back to this. I'd love to have this conversation again,
because then you should also be telling yourself, Okay, what
if it's six months it turns out to be a year,
(25:37):
and what if a year turns out to be eighteen
months and they still haven't done something? Right? So I
really actually like that scenario a lot of things about it.
You're also really certain that this is the company you
want to be at, and I think that that will
make for better engagement on your part as well.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Yes, I love what you just said. No doesn't mean
no forever, maybe just not right now. So I know
I learned a lot from this conversation, Maury. I know
Jimmy did as well, and we hope everybody listening takes
away some actionable advice. So thank you so much for
joining us, Maury. It was really great talking with you.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
All right, I need to go get more coffee. You
should too, and we'll be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Gee, Maury was awesome. I love her. I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Especially in the role play sanction. I feel like I'm
empowered to do the redit ago. One of the things
that I really really took away from that interview was
just how big of a role imposter syndrome plays into
all of this. While you got to dead that from
the jump, like you gotta leave it at the door, right,
because it will keep you from negotiating, It will keep
(26:56):
you from asking your worth.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
What did you take away from the interview?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
I loved her emphasis on preparation, especially coming from my
place where I didn't prepare whatsoever for my first negotiation.
And I think what was so important in that piece
is this idea of like going in with your numbers,
knowing what you're worth, so understanding in this industry, in
this job where I'm living, how much can I potentially
(27:20):
earn in this role? And you do that by searching
online speaking to people in that desired industry. So that
you go in with numbers because you can't debate the facts.
Like the thing is the facts you can't you can't
debate that, and I think too, it also helps you
take away some of the emotion that we, you know,
naturally feel when it comes to negotiating. So it really
(27:41):
is you coming in being like, here's what the numbers
are showing me. Really come in prepared with what you
want out of this negotiation and understand everything that's possible
to you. And at the end of the day, like
you'll listen to this episode and I hope you take
away that one you have the right to negotiate and
(28:01):
your offer is not at risk. But still it's going
to be nerve wracking, Like there's no perfect way to
completely get rid of those nerves. So you really just
have to start doing it and celebrate the small wins,
which is probably just asking, right, Like maybe you don't
land the high salary, but you get something else, and
just the fact that you made the ask is a win,
So celebrate that, and each time you do it, you'll
(28:23):
only get more and more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Heck, yeah, okay, So Gianna, you know I love to
play games over here.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm never serious.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So I want to talk about our next segment, which
is called show the Receipts.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Maybe I love receipts all day? Call me a textag.
My receipts are so organized. I love this.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We're going to be discussing some pretty common myths about
young people at work and why they're wrong or not.
You want to know this week's hot take, give it
to me. So I was reading this article Unfortune that
came out this year, and it was discussing how gen
Z is totally over having their work epic questioned. It
(29:02):
brought up Gianna's eyes are watering like, it brought up
conversations around gen Z.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Are you guys lazy? Are you guys like tapped in
at work?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
What is going on? Giana? What do you think about?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
This?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Is gen Z lazy at work?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Jamay?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Thank you so much asking This is the one that
really gets my blood boiling because I think it's such
a generalization. No, I do not think gen Z is
lazy at work. I think when we saw this narrative
begin to pick up, it was around the quiet quitting trend,
which is this idea that people want to do the
bare minimum at work and a lot of the articles
(29:42):
were saying, you know, gen Z wants to clock out
at five, which like, because we have to go to
other jobs. Like that is the reality of it, right,
whether you have your own company, whether you have a
part time gig after work, gen Z is known to
be working multiple jobs. So I think I'm also like,
how how the heck did we get to the point
where like leaving at five is considered lazy, Like, come
(30:04):
on that, I'm scared for our future. Transparently, if I'm
done at five, I'm leaving like I'm going to head home, right.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I think Two is we.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Want to be paid for the work that we are
asked to do, so that is just I'll leave it there,
like we want to be paid. The other part of
it too, though, I will say, like what is lazy, right?
Is it because we want to clock out at five?
Is it on the job like during the day, Like,
you know, why are we being painted that way? And
I do think listen, like give us some space to
(30:34):
learn and grow. A lot of us are early in
our careers. We're learning how to experience corporate life for
the first time, and maybe some of us will need,
you know, extra support. Yeah, I think that's on us
to also know when to ask. It's something I've had
to learn when to raise my hand and say, like
I actually might need a little bit help on this,
rather than just like sitting there being like I don't
even know what to do. So I think that's part
(30:56):
of it too, right, like maybe we just need a
little bit extra support and like need those my doors
need that management early on. But the headline, I would say, yes,
we're over being questioned on our work ethic, and.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Now I do not think gen Z's I see.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, I feel love it about you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I love what you said, especially around like the fact
that a lot of people have a lot of jobs.
Because for the first like almost decade of my career,
I had multiple jobs. So I would get up, I
would clock into my nine to five, I would clock
out by a certain time because I knew that I
had to go in the back when I was like
doing waitressing or bartending and then hit the floor, and
then I was coming home and then still working on
(31:35):
my brand, or even when I was just freelancing, I
gotta go home, I gotta make deadline right. And so
I have always known that there is a hard start
and a hard stop to my day. And I think
that when jobs are seeing that you don't want to
do that, but you still are getting the work done.
They're just a little like why are you not fully
invested one thousand percent in here? But the reality is,
(31:58):
like you have other things to do, respectfully. I think
gen Z sets really strong boundaries and it maybe triggers
other people who don't have boundaries, setting me guils.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Them like think, okay, well why do I have a
problem with that?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, but baby girl, like no one's telling you to
clock back in at eight pm to answer emails, like
and if you are really, then you really? I mean
I do too, but that's because I'm already up at night.
But like if you if you are finding that you
are over extending yourself. Those are conversations that you need
to have either with your manager or when you are
(32:33):
even looking at like you know, your corporate wish list,
like asking those things to the employer, like what do
the hours look like? Do you allow for flexible working hours?
Can I clock out to go pick up my kid
or to go to the store or whatever, Like I mean,
don't maybe don't tell them if you're going to go
to like the store, but like there are things that
you can ask right so that you can kind of.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Plan your day out.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I think a couple of videos that just happen to
be gen z ers have gone viral and people are
trying to make reductions about the entire workforce. They did
the same thing with the millennials.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
I E. ME.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So I just think that every generation is gonna We're
gonna say the same thing about jen Alpha.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, in a few years, there's gonna be something new.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's whoever's in the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
H literally, So you just gotta do you and just
keep doing it.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I will try all of us will try it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, guys, that was a really awesome episode, if I
do say so myself.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Thank you so much more for joining us.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Remember we also have a newsletter it's called Let's Talk Offline,
where we talk even more about the topics we discuss
on the pod. The link of the newsletter will be
in the show description and it's also my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Oh yes, Also, I gotta give a quick shout out
to Kristin. Thank you so much Kristin for your question
this week. Gian and I loved answering it. But it
doesn't just have to be Kristin. You guys can also
send us your questions. Information on how to do that
is also in that show description.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
And if you're not already, make sure you guys are
following the show and leave us a rating and review
while you're at it. Okay, one last thing, remember we
have always got your back, so if something comes up
in the meantime, Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I'm Gianna Prudenti.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And I'm Jamie Jackson Gadsden, Stay Thriving.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and
iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our
producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
Our associate producer is Sarah Dealey. Alex mckinnis is our engineer,
and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etore.
We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm and
Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, Dave
Pond is Head of News Production, Courtney Coop is head
of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
(34:52):
chief of LinkedIn
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