December 19, 2024 • 50 mins
On this episode of Levels to This, Sheryl and Tee are joined by women’s basketball legend Ticha Penicheiro. Ticha gives background on how she came to love basketball, the difficulties of being an international player and shares insight into her new role as Vice President of On Time Agency Group. The three also reminisce about the 2005 WNBA playoff matchup between the Comets and the Monarchs, as well as look ahead to the rising attention and coverage women’s sports will receive in 2025 and beyond.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, what's going on? Everybody? It's your girl, Trica Foster
Brassby and.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm your girl. Cheryl's swoops.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What's up? What's going on? And this is Levels to
this the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This is the show where we basically share that there
is levels to the shit.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That women go through. We really do have.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A fun show lined up for you all today, But
first I gotta tell Cheryl about what happened to me
this week.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Do tell detail?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I am traumatized in my own house.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Because on a Wednesday, I spent two hours with two
birds that got in my house.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Right and it was two of them.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Wait wait, wait, before you even go deeper, how did
they get in? You had a window door?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Was so I have a back patio door and I
tail Amazon to drop my packages off to the back
door to the back patio.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
That way.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
You know, number one ain't not sitting on my front porch,
but number two has been raining a lot lately, and
so my back patio was covered, so I would prefer
them to sit the boxes back there versus in the front.
The problem is I don't have a light on my
back porch as of right now.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm working on it. It's something there.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Okay, it looks like it should be a light there
of some sort, but it's not working.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So I need to get an electrician to see what's
going on.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So I know that I have these packages, and I
opened my door so that I can get these packages
off my back porch, and the moment I slide my
patio door open, I am instantly attacked by bird. Now
I and freaking out because I'm like, oh my god,
(02:04):
and it's nighttime. And it's nighttime. So it's a bright house,
mind you. I have the dining room lights on, the
living room lights on. I just turned the Christmas tree on,
so I can understand how a bird would fly in
my direction because it's bright as hell in my house. Right,
I say to myself, let me open up this door
(02:24):
so that the bird can.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Just fly right back on out. Soon as I slacked
the little screen back.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Girl, if bird never tuned in fling my damn house,
I am on the porch because at this point, I'm
not fighting two of you.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Are you terrified of birds? I am not terrified of
birds specifically. I'm saying that there are two animals in
my house that don't belong to me, and I'm gonna
let y'all have this shit because I'm not fighting y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So the birds ran you out of your own house on.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Crib, and so I'm now strategically trying to figure out
how the hell I get back in my crib so
that I can at least open the front door or something, right,
And they just flying around.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I'm talking about dead ass flying around. Girl. They I
have a live tree.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
They posted up on the damn tree, posted up on
the tree like it's a real like it's a real tree.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
But they acting like we out. So they are all
on the tree.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They done flew all on my fireplace, knocking shit down.
I'm about ready to fight these birds, but I'm also
scared as hell because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I'm a kid of the eighties, the movie The Birds.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I don't know if these are.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The attacked human birds. I can take one, but I
can't take two. Oh my gosh, two hours.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So how did you finally get him out the house.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Finally I find well, first of all, let me tell
you that I had door dash on the way, So
now I didn't snuck in the house, got my keys,
I got a broom, and I'm trying to, like, you know,
very gently guide these damn birds to where the doors
are and their chests not. They're like, girl, I don't
even know why you keep playing with us. They're like,
(04:09):
what you what you're not gonna do? What's happening is
we live here now? For so hours, sir, this in
and out situation, y'all, y'all live here.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I could just see you running around with freaking out
or whatever you had tried. I'm there with you, like
I'm gonna terror I'm not terrified of birds. But you
don't belong in my house.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You don't belong out here.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So you got all of this space and to fly
and do whatever you want to do outside, but you
you don't have you can't be in my house.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
For a good fifteen minutes, like everything stopped moving, so
I thought maybe they like now at this point, the
front door's open, the back doors open, and I'm like,
maybe maybe they have flown out the house. Maybe when
I walked around from the front to the back, they
have flown out.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So here I go.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I take myself inside and I got the broom. I
still don't hear nothing, I don't see nothing, so I
think it's good now. They done knocked over my damn ornament.
My ornament is.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Now broke on the ground by my fireplace.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So I'm a little upset, but I'm like whatever, I
could take a broke ornament versus a broke face, because
I know birds like to attack faces and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right, So I begin.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
To sweep, and I guess I got too close to
the tree. Them damn birds was over there and the
tree sleep because you know they they sleep at night
like we him.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, they was. They heard me trying to sweep up.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, wait, is it a like a tree tree or
a Christmas tree.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It's a Christmas tree, but it's a lot of trill. Yeah,
I got you, I got you. Yeah girl, they girl.
They didn't help me.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
So apparently I woke them up out their sleep in
my house, on my Christmas tree, and they eventually, in fear,
flew right out the front door because I left the
front door open. It's rain and sure, old girl, this
water all in my damn hallway. Those were just risk.
I was willing to take water all in the hallway. Girl,
(06:22):
my door dash came. I sat in the car, trkeat on.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, if somebody
come get these birds out of my house.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
They're like, ma'am, we don't have nobody in your area
that's about to come and get no birds.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Fear it out.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I called Greg Greg like, I mean, what you want
me to do?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I'm at work, but.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know what, but that's something. Well, they do that
to us. They'll call us just looking for something like, Babe,
where is the I'm like, what you want me to do?
I'm way in la someone.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, you remember I told you Greg up here in
cold freezing because he refused to call the fat about
the oil. So I guess this was my paypack because
I sat in my car for two hours, and.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Girl, I cannot believe that you let the birds run
you out of your own crib.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I was not one I could handle two. It felt
like an ambush. And I said, no, I'm about to
order me some food.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I sent my corner and fish and just god, an ambush.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I am traumatized now because I go downstairs even now,
and I know there are no birds in my house,
and I'm still creeping around the staircase, like, let me
just make sure that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They don't come from somewhere around the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Let me make sure that I you know, my god,
because I don't even really receiving both of them leave.
I really only recall actually seeing one fly. I don't
know where the other one.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Went, so in reality, you could still have a bird inside.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Sure, equip playing with me before I run up out
this podcast, I'm not even if.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You only saw one go out, but you saw to
come in. Da I mean, is there another way for
that other one to get out?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
All I know is if I hear a strange noise
in the basement, I'm locking this office door.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh my gosh, that was funny. I needed that laugh
for the day.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I did, I did, I did?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I did? Thank you?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Thanks all right. I knew she was going to judge
me all That's why I had to sell her down.
So so that's how my week has been.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
How's your word, bed?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Well, you know, I live in the country, so I
hear stuff all the time. But but I have to say.
I haven't been run out of my house by birds yet,
just have.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'm sorry I thought that though.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I thought this was a safe space and it's an
honest space. So but you know, I owe you.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That is you.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You. You you came for me about we won't go
back there.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But you did the camera you came.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah I did.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
We are, we are, we are even okay. But I mean,
other than that, my week has been it's it's been good.
Just I gotta be honest with you because that's what
we do.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I am trying so hard. Oh my gosh, why am
I getting emotional? I'm trying so hard to get into
the Christmas spirit, but I just can't. I don't know
if I'm the only one. I don't know how you're
feeling like. I have decorated, like my house, I've decorated
(09:44):
my little she shed it's all Christmas y because I'm
really trying to get in the spirit. But there's something
that is like just tugging at me. Or every time
I try to turn on Christmas music and you know,
pour me a nice dream and get in the Christmas spirit,
it's like something pulls me back. And it's like, Nope,
(10:06):
we ain't doing that this year. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You know that is you are not alone and that.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I tell people all the time, I have to do this,
like I have to decorate, I have to do all
like the Chris, I have.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But you know, this is my favorite holiday. Like I
think we've had this conversation. I know, Halloween is yours,
Christmas is mine. That's why I think I'm more like, like,
what the hell is going on with me? This is
my time of year. I don't know. I don't know.
So if anybody out there knows, or if you're feeling
(10:45):
the same way, You're.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Not the only one who feels that way, though, you know,
there is a thing and I don't. And I am
not a doctor obviously, so I'm not the one to
diagnose this kind of thing. But sometimes people fall into
like this seasonal depression type of thing where it lot
of feelings and emotions kind of come over you at
the same time, and it looks and feels different with everybody.
(11:07):
So it's very not possible. It could very very well
be possible. I don't like December. I lost my father
and my uncle in December. December second and December fifteenth,
and so that's a conversation.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We'll have another time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But I do all of the decorative and infestive stuff
to keep my mind going because if I just sat
down and did nothing, I would absolutely cry all day
every day.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I hate December. So I always feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's so and even my husband, though, he's like, you good,
and honestly, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Why He's like, Cuz,
like I have decorated, but it's not not like I
usually do. And I haven't bought a single Christmas gift
and usually by now like you're good, yeah, and yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
But you know what, this is usually a very cheerful
and joyous time of year. And truthfully, Cheryl, you've been
through some shit this year, you know what I'm saying,
And like maybe it's just not really feeling like you
just still have the weight of a lot of the
things that you've done and have gone through this year
that you just really maybe not be feeling it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And I do think the other part is like I'm
still a feeling some type of way about the election, right,
So I think there's a part of me that's like
just the uncertainty of where we're headed, right, like where
this country's headed doesn't really doesn't put me in a
(12:39):
good space, right So I think I'm kind of like, Okay,
I can't like turn that off because that's our reality
right now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yep, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I didn't I totally get it.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But one thing that I do know that regardless of
what this season has always been about the spirit of giving,
right and this is this is the season about being
in the spirit of giving. And at some point between
now and Christmas, I'm pretty sure you will feel better
(13:20):
or at least, you know, have maybe Jordan around or something,
somebody or something will make you feel a little bit
better about this season than you do now. And So
one thing that I love about this show today is
that we have someone who's going to be joining us
who did a lot of giving, a lot of giving,
(13:42):
as a matter of fact, maybe too many, too much
giving if you were her opponent, and that is Tisha Penicero.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
She is going to be joining us on the show today.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And if you know anything about Tisha, not you obviously
before our fans, if you know anything about Tisha. You
know that she was a point guard and she healthy
assist record for many years.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like she she loved to get a ball up, love
that this way.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So one of the best to ever do it, the
best to ever do it. And so we are incredibly
excited to talk to Tisha for our next level conversation.
And so why make the people wait, Let's go ahead
and give them to them. Coming up right now. We
are incredibly excited about today's guests. I always love when
(14:28):
there's an opportunity for me to bring on a guest
that has a connection to Chryl because I want to
know how much shit is going to be talked on
this podcast just by the time we get into the
thick of the conversation. How much you know did we
did not get a chance to get off my chest
when I played against you.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's gonna come out on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
But guys, I want you all to make some noise
for who I have said.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And I know the China is another person who has
said this.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
We both believe that this person is probably the greatest
pastor we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You need to pick up a basketball. She is a
w NBA champion.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
She was the number two overall pick by the Sacramento Monarchs.
She's a three time All w n B A selection,
four time All Star. What can we say about the
great Tsha Pincero?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Hey, Tsha, Hey.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Hey ladies, Hi, Hey, thank you for having me on
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Tell me if you remember this before we get in,
Ta Dha Tisha?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Is that JJ?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I think he was a Nike appear It's important.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes, Jordan used to have the biggest crush on Tsha
when he was a little bit he did. I was like, oh,
that's cute, and so he couldn't hey, but he wouldn't
just call her Tisha. It was always t Shadja Tja.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I got to stay three times.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yeah, so I know it's real. Say it three times.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
He's gonna be so mad at me for saying that.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
First off, Tsha, thank you for making some time to
join Sherly and I. When we talked about guests that
we wanted to have on the show, you were obviously
one of the ones that instantly popped up for so
many reasons.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Because one, this game of basketball is growing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
You certainly had a hand in that, but too just
because you're doing dope shit right now, Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's just so many things.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
We were at the finals, and you have players who
were in the finals, and so we'll get into that,
but I just want to start at the beginning. There
are so many different people that have different reasons for
gravitating to the game of basketball, and you being from Portugal,
you not necessarily having the same upbringing as so many others.
(16:40):
I just want to know, how did you get into
the game of basketball.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Yeah, I was about five growing up in Portugal. My
dad played and then he was my first coach, and
I have an older brother that also played, so right
away there was basketballs in the house. And this is Portugal,
where it's a very small country. It's a soccer country,
not much basketball per se, or women's basketball. And actually,
when I was like twelve thirteen, I had to start
(17:04):
playing with the boys because there was no girls team
for my age group. So my dad was my first
coach and it was me. I mean I did look
like a little boy, to be honest, I had a
little bowl cut, and I can't honestly say it was
love at first sight. I totally loved the game. I
was also very lucky because I had a playground right
next door to my house, which in Europe is not
super normal, so I spent a lot of time a
(17:26):
lot of times. I was also the only girl amongst
all the boys, and I remember them telling me go
home and go play with your dolls, and I'm like,
I'm not going home to play with any dolls. I
want to play here and play basketball. So I was persistent,
and obviously, looking back, I made the right decision.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, teacher, I don't think that's any different regardless of
what country you grow up in, boys telling you to
go play with your dolls, because that was my story too.
I could never find enough girls that were interested in
playing basketball right where we could do five on five,
so it was always me playing with the boys. And
(18:05):
when you think about your journey and how you got
to the WNBA, what was the toughest part for you
coming from Portugal to the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I think leaving my family, going into unknown territory where
English was not my first language, because I first went
to Old Dominion. So when I left a good old Dominion,
there was no WNBA. So my goal was grow as
a woman, grow as a basketball player, get my degree,
and then go play in Europe. So the timing was
also perfect because I was already in the States when
the WNBA started, so obviously I had a chance to
(18:41):
be seen, but that was not the goal. The goal
was never the WNBA until he was but leaving my
family and just going after what I wanted to do
and risking it all.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Basically, what I think is interesting is number one geographically,
coming from Poletriical to Virginia in itself is very different.
But I think there's a process is that international players
go through with just what you mentioned, leaving your family
understanding that things are different. So I think about Camilla Cardoso,
for example, who is someone who comes from Brazil, her
(19:11):
family is still there, and she kind of talked about
that mindset of there's a goal when I come to
the States to do something different, to provide better for
my family. Can you just talk a little bit about
how or what you've seen from international players and how
difficult that can be sometimes to make that transition leaving
your family behind.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I can tell it back in my day was way
more difficult. We didn't have anynet. Okay, that's how old
I am, so I can just FaceTime or WhatsApp or
get my parents on video like I literally had to
write letters, put them in the mail and they will
get them, like two weeks later. I had to call
home with calling cards and they were so expensive. So
I think, obviously you are homesick. You miss your comfort zone,
(19:51):
you miss your family, you miss whatever food that your
mom cooks, you miss your friends. But at the end
of the day, I think these days is so much
easier to bridge that gap because there's technology and there's internet,
which back in the day we didn't have that. But
at the end of the day, you just have to
focus on your goals and your dreams and the reason
why you left in the first place, and then just
(20:12):
stick with it. There's also a lot of foreign players
that come and then they don't adjust and they go back.
They don't get the degree, and they don't finish their
school because they can't take it. And I can't tell
you it wasn't peaches and cream every day. But I
just kept the eyes on the price, and I knew
the reason why I was there, and I wanted to
be the best basketball player that I could be. I
didn't know what that meant at the time, but I
(20:32):
know he just took a lot of sacrifice and being
away from families, it was number one.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Here's the thing for me, what I think makes the
WNBA so good and so competitive then and now it
is the international flavor. It's the international players that we
have because the style of play internationally, for people who
don't know, is it's a lot more physical than it
is here and it's just different. So to me, without
(20:59):
the international players, I don't know if the league would
be as competitive as it is. And I bring all
that up to say Tisha may not say this, but
you know, basketball does some incredible things for people. So
Jordan my Son his first year professionally, went to play
(21:21):
in Portugal, which actually happened to be Tisha. Correct me
if I'm wrong. Tisha's hometown in.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
My first club and her first club.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And right, and this is when I first found out.
And then I'm bringing this up because I want Tisha
to talk to us about it. That Tisha actually has
her own outdoor court, her outdoor basketball court. Not just court,
it's a basketball court.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I mean, that's the core where I start playing, where
the dreams start, you know, making you know, becoming reality
a little bit where all the boys were telling me
to go home. And I can tell them listen to
to my court now, so you go home and play
and play.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
With you go home, get off my car.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
But I think it was it was just a Federation
of Portugal. They just wanted to honor me and obviously
my career and everything that I that I did. And
I'm an American now citizen now, but I'm very proud
of Portuguese citizen. That's where it runs through my blood.
That's my heart. And to go back to Portugal and
to know that that's where everything started and out that
(22:25):
court is in honor of me and everything that I
did in my career, it's actually very special.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Now there is going to be some basketball being played
in northern California, and granted, Sacramento ain't quite the Bay
and don't let nobody in California, you know, you say
that around the wrong folks.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
They get in a feelies what you mean.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
It's ain't set down like okay, we get it brow
But there is still such a history of women's basketball
and women's basketball fans in that area because of everything
that was accomplished by the Monarchs. Just when you think
back to that time and also thinking about now with
the new Golden State Valkyries. Just what do you think
(23:14):
about how this league has continued to grow and expand
over the course of the last several years, specifically since
the time that you played.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Yeah, I remember a time that we were at sixteen
and then we kept Unfortunately, Sheherylyn and I on the
same boat. The Houston Comets disappeared, the Monarchs folded. These
are teams that have great history where two of the
initial franchises we won championships. The city was so involved
and the owners just weren't with it anymore. To me,
the thing that hurt the most is that we didn't
know that we were going to fold. We didn't have
(23:42):
a chance to say goodbye to our fans. We folded
in the off season the maloofs at the time, the
owners of the team didn't even try to sell it,
and I think if they did, we would have created
some interest in Sacramento to keep the city, to keep
the team in the city. And I just have great
members of Sacramento. Obviously, I played twelve years there and
I would have played there on my whole I would
have never went to LA and then my last year
in Chicago because that's how much I love Sacramento, and
(24:05):
I really love the fans, And even though the Golden
State Valkyries are not in Sacramento, they're close enough where
I hope some of those fans will continue to support
this team because I know they're still heartbroken and I
know they are WNBA fans.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, yeah, that is like one of the things that
crushes me when I think about the league, just Sacramento
and not having a team, Houston not having a team.
And this could be a whole different conversation, but tis
when you look at the league and the game today,
what do you see that excites you and what do
you also see that concerned you?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
If anything, it excites me that little girls have so
many women role models. I didn't you probably didn't. I
wanted to be like Magic, I wanted to be like
Michael Jordan. I didn't have any women, like I said,
also could not go on YouTube and try to do
any search because we didn't have internet. To me, all
my role models besides my mom, and she didn't even
play sports. They're all male athletes. So the most exciting
(25:01):
thing for me not just in basketball, but there's so
many other sports where women are thriving, and there's so
many little girls that can aspire to be so many
different players at different sports. The things that scares me
is that twenty eight years in, we are still moving
very slow, at a snail pace when it comes to
a lot of things. We don't have a pension. The
salaries are still not comparable to the NBA, and I
(25:23):
would never compare that, but still there's a huge gap.
But I do believe with the UCBA being able to
be negotiated this year that things will change. Right now,
I'm more excited than i'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, I agree with Tea and La China and so
many others. I've said this before and I'm going to
say it to you. I think you are one of
the best passing guards that this game's ever seen. And
there's stuff today when players are playing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
They're like, oh, wow, did you see that?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
We've never seen anything like that, And I'm like, eh,
but we have. Maybe y'all haven't because y'all just started watching.
But when you look at the game today, is there
a player that reminds you of yourself?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
I think she's now a little more of a score
than she was maybe a few years ago. But I
would say Chelsea Gray she's from the base, so she
was watching the Sacramento Monarchs when I play there, and
I actually was just with her like this past weekend,
and she every time I see her, she always is
so complimentary of the fact that I was her favorite player. Yeah,
and now she's my favorite player because obviously I'm a
little bias towards point guards. And she just makes her
(26:30):
teammates better and she calls her own number when she
has to. So if I could say anyone, I would
say her.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Not a bad one, not a bad one at all.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And I actually want to stick on that trend because
when we talk about the Monarchs and you talk about teammates,
there's a teammate that sticks out in my mind that
I don't think people talk about enough. When I think
about Landa Griffith, for example, Like why people ain't talking
about Yo like they need to be talking about y'oll.
But is there a teammate or a moment or someone
who you remember playing alongside that you were like Yo,
(27:04):
that was one of the best to do this or
one of the greatest at this, and maybe you feel
like they don't get enough recognition that you think they deserve.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I would say Rebecca Brunson. She's the only player that
has five rings, five championships. She even has more than Cheryl. Okay,
I know, so that's crazy, Yeah, yeah, no, but I
just don't think she may rebound pretty. It was pretty
to watch it rebound, and she was just like a
(27:33):
glue player. Nobody really talked about her because she played
with Yo and myself and then she went to Minnesota
and had Simona and had Way and then Maya. But
she's someone that without her, Minnesota doesn't have those championships.
We don't have that championship in Sacramento. And I just
don't think she gets enough credit.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I don't mean to be messy or nothing, but I
think I remember in two thousand.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
I think it's it's five because I'm not that old.
Like I'm not young, but I'm not that old. I'm
forty if I remember correctly. Around that time, in order
for the Monarchs to get to the finals, they had
to play a team might have been a Houston comments.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
It took us a while to figure them out, like
everybody everybody did. I mean, you just took a while.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I'm just curious that there are any memories from that matchup.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
A lot of losses.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I don't remember that at all.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You know, back then he was a versus East. So
for you to get out the West to get to
the finals, you had to be Houston, you had to
be La Phoenix. So it might be biased, but I
think the West was definitely stronger than the East. Everything
is different now, like you just picked the best eight
teams in spite of where they're from. But yeah, it
was really tough to get out of the West.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
You know what's funny about that is that even though
it's not divided by conferences anymore, I must say that
I do enjoy you being the top eight teams, But
over the last couple of years, it still feels like
it still ends up being an East team versus a
West team. And I feel like with expansion continuing, it
may be difficult to keep up this top eight. We
(29:05):
might get to a point where we may have to
go back to East versus West, or bringing conference alignment
to make a little bit more sense than just the
Commissioner's Cup that they have right now.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I can decide, right I go back and forth on
if I like it East versus West, or if I
like the top eight, because to me, sometimes I'm like,
let's send the best ten teams we have according to
their record and the way they've played. Let's send them
to the playoffs, and let's see what happens. What I
will just go back and say, and we'll skip over
two thousand and five. Listen, I'm still in my feelings
(29:38):
about it. I'm still salty because I don't like losing.
But I just remember just the battles that we had,
right It wasn't just like the comments and the liberty
or the comments and the sparks like Sacramento. It's the same.
I agree with Tisha, Rebecca Brunson one of the best
hardest working players that you will ever see, and she
(30:00):
doesn't get talked about enough. I agree with you. I
don't think Elanda Griffith gets talked about enough. I don't
think Ruthie Bolton gets talked about enough.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's just there's so.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Many former players that had a lot to do with
where this game is today that I think they get
overlooked at times. And I just remember going to Sack
or Sack, coming to Houston, and the battles that we
always had. Tisha, Keedra Holland Korn Demaya. It just it
was so much fun for us to be able to
(30:30):
compete night in and night out, for sure, But I
want to go to what you're doing now. I know
for a lot of players, when you retire or when
it's close to retirement, and when the time comes, a
lot of players are like kinda in Limbo. I was
one of those players that was like, I don't know
what I'm going to do when I retire. Tisha, tell
us what you're doing now. But also, did you immediately
(30:53):
know that you wanted to become an agent.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I didn't know immediately. I just knew immediately that I
didn't want to coach. I've been a point guard all
my life, so I feel like I've coached on my life,
and I definitely didn't want to have the same routine.
Being inside of a gym watching film is just the
same exact routine that you have as a player. Actually,
even more, I knew that much that right away I
don't want to coach, But I knew that I wanted
to stay involved. I knew that I want to give
(31:17):
back to the game. So when I start seeing the
light and I'm like, Okay, my career is coming to
an end, I start thinking a little bit more what
I wanted to do next. And at the time there
wasn't too many women representing women, especially women that played
the game. So the more start thinking about it is
just start making sense. So yeah, it was maybe like
a year and a half where to me, I have
(31:37):
to live everything in my head first and then to
make it to fruition, and I think, to me, it
was just like, this is exactly what I want to do.
The more I thought about it just made sense. So
it was a smooth transition because I was already mentally
prepared to do so when I retire in twenty twelve,
I just go went ahead and I got certified with
FIBA and also with the WNVPA. And it's been crazy
(31:58):
twelve years now that i've Wow Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And you're currently an agent with One Time Agency Group
and some of your clients Bridget Carlton, Megan Gustulson, Liz Kaitley,
Kayla McBride, Mikayla on your way to Alisa Peely. When
you're looking to sign clients, are there a particular type
of players that you're looking at?
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Obviously you want talent, but to me, personality, values, respect
for the game, respect, for myself. It's super important because
I want to come into this business to be a mentor,
and I can't mentor you if you don't respect me,
if you don't listen to what I'm going to say.
There's been situations when I recruited just based on talent
and I knew that it wasn't going to be a
good fit.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I wanted to challenge myself because I came into this
business to help the next generation. But at the end
of the day, I just realized it's not for everybody.
So I'm very particular about who I sign. Is very
important that they have good values, they're good people, that
just good family. All of that stuff is important to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You also talked about a moment ago how growing up
you didn't really have any who you felt like you
could look up to. And there are still some battles
that women are fighting as it relates to being in
the agent space. You have some that are starting to
make a name for themselves and that have make a
name for themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I think about you, I think about Jay League.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I know you spent some time at SIG Agency as well,
but just how important is it for you to continue
to kind of advocate for women in this space outside
of just the clients that you represent.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
It's super important and that's one of the reasons why
I came into the space, and not to just be
an agent. I don't want to just do contracts. I
want to be a mentor. I want to advise you
on basketball, on life. I think I wear so many hats,
but again, like your clients have too, you have to
feel comfortable enough to wear those hats and talk to
them about all types of different things. And I just
came into this business to obviously pay it forward. I
(33:45):
just want women's basketball to continue to grow. So I
take this job very seriously because their career is a
little bit in my hands. But I just think also
to show them out to be a good pro, to
be on time, to you know, be a good teammate,
to listen. I think all those things are part of
the package in a lot of the boxes that I
pick when I am selecting the players that I want
to sign.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I know, for me, if I was a current
player and I was looking for representation, I would absolutely
look for someone like a Tisha who's played the game,
knows the space, has been around, because I think you
can teach them and show them things that someone who
didn't play the game can't. But would you ever represent
(34:24):
male athletes? So do you represent male athletes?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I don't. But with this new agency, I am way
more involved on the men's side. So I am the
vice president of this agency. So at the end of
the day, I know everything that is going on. With
Sports International Group, I was really just focused on the women.
I had no idea what was going on the men's side.
But with this agency, I know everything that is going
on with all of our clients, whether they male or female.
(34:50):
Right now, I'm only licensed to sign the BNBA player. Okay,
I'm never going to say never, but for now, I'm
happy where I am this year. I feel like this
is my lane and this is where I can make
the most impact. But I'm definitely helping remond sessions with
the CEO and the male agent to make decisions and
to recruit.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
We've been kicking it with Tischa Pinchero and when we
come back after the break, we got some more stuff
we want to dig into just a little bit. So
stay with us, guys. Welcome back to the levels to
this podcast. It's your girl, Trerika FoST de brasby, of
course kicking it with my co host Cheryl and our
(35:28):
special guest today Tischa Pinchero and Cheryl and I actually
had an entire show dedicated to career transitions right and
coming to the realization that there are other things that
can be a part of your purpose outside of what
it is that you do. If it were not basketball,
if it were not being an agent. Is there a
passion or a hobby of yours or something that you
(35:50):
could see yourself doing or being involved in. What do
we need to know about Tisha that's not on a
basketball court.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Oh man, It's so hard to answer that question because
basket is such a huge part of my life from
a very young age. So when I get asked that question,
I never know what to say because I can't even
see myself without basketball. I love animals, so maybe I
would have been a vet. Or I love traveling, so
maybe being like a travel agent or something like that.
But like I said, I never know what the answer
because basketball is engraving me almost from the first time
(36:20):
I start walking, so it's hard to imagine me doing
anything else.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I could see travel agent. Let me help you about
this crew.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Here I could see her being a flight attendant like
I wanted to be.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Oh god, Cheryl told us she wanted to be a
flight attendant or a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Wow? I had no idea, that's I said.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Thank God that didn't happen, but yeah, that's kind of
what I.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thought, Tisha.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I got a question for you, so the whole NIL think.
Two questions for you is one are you guys representing
athletes in the NIL space? And two? How do you
think that has changed the game?
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Oh? We changed completely, and for the women more than
the man. Because the man they can be one and done.
They can stay in one years, but then you go
to the pros and start making money. The women, you
have Angel Rees obviously she's in the pros now, but
you have Flage, you have Juju Paige. All of those players,
they probably made more money that I'm my whole career,
(37:25):
no doubt. They're not even pros yet. So obviously he
has changed tremendously, and I'm glad because it shows evolution.
But it's also not for everyone. And I think sometimes
when you recruit players for NIL, you have to be
making sure that their expectations are realistic, because otherwise you're
going to fail as an agent because not just them,
their parents is who all have super unrealistic expectations that
(37:47):
most likely you're not going to meet. We do have
three players. One is she's actually a Portuguese player that
is placed for Kentucky. She's sixty seven, she's a freshman.
She's in Kentucky, Klauda Silva. And then we have Fagan
from South Carolina. Yeah, and also some spencer from Tennessee.
So those are the only three players that we have
on the women's side.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
For Nil, you talked about coaching not necessarily being for you,
but I do know your agency represents Camille Little who
has gotten into coaching at Paul Quinn.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Also is Camille Little Smith because if I don't correct you,
she probably gonna get on me. So Kimille Little Smith.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Let me not disrespect the married name. Okay.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, So we actually opened a Next Chapter division not
too long ago, and Camille was our first signee. I
actually represented her towards the last few years of her
basketball career and she didn't have an agent and just
reached out to me a few months ago asking if
I could help her and I said, listen. She didn't
even know that I had left Seek to go to
on time agency. So I told her, listen, just give
(38:43):
me a few months because we actually about to start
this new chapter division that is exactly for former players
that are in limbo. They don't know what to do.
It could be media, it can be reporters. But we
very slowly to sign people into that space. So we
only signed Camille Little on the women's side, and we
signed Bobby Simmons on the man inside. But yeah, now
we do represent Camille and she was let go by
(39:04):
the Sparks this summer. She was an assistant coach with
the Sparks, so we currently trying to find her another job.
But like you said, she also is coaching at Paul
Queen right now as a head coach.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I love that. I think that's huge because there are
so many former players who need the help. Right Like
you've been your entire career, you've had an agent, and
your agent they have the connects or the contacts, and
so they find those opportunities for you. And then when
you retire, and a lot of instances and it's like,
well what's next for me?
Speaker 4 (39:34):
I actually can also say that the day that the
balls stop bouncing, the day that you stop making your
agent a paycheck, they don't return your call, call emails
or cars, you're just like you don't exist anymore. So
the next chapter division obviously. The day that we announced it,
our dms were popping, and we're going to be very
selective because we want to make sure that the people
that we sign, we can help everyone and be really
(39:55):
hands on with all of our clients, whether there are
players or their coaches, and if we sign too many people,
you can be as hands on as we want to.
But it's definitely something that we needed to start because,
like you said, sometimes it's just so lost. You just
don't know what the next step will be. And the
person that is supposed to have you back and help
you your agent, Yeah, you know where to be fount.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Before we get out of here, I look at the
WNBA now, I look at the young players, the Caitlin
Clark's and the Angel Reeses and the Eliah Edwards, and
I look at all of the new coaches that are
coming into the league this year now, and I don't
know if I'm more excited about the talent level and
how that continues to get bigger and better, or the marketing,
(40:35):
the television views, the audience, the people gravitating to it,
because it's not even just basketball right now, it's all
women's sports, Soccer, it's tennis, coco, golf is amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Some own bios is next level.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Just right now, women's sports are in and we always
should have been. Quite honestly, there are so many people
that are finally opening their eyes to recognize how amazing
women are in this space cites you or motivates you
to feel excited about the future of women's sports.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Having a pension and I'm just paying Oh no.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
No, no, say it, say it, yeah, say it loud.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Yeah, I say it's important. Having a pension would be
super important. That's the NBA has it. Like I played
fifteen years in the w NBA, I get zero dollars
from all the work, all injuries that I had, all
the sweat, blood and tears that I put in. So
I said in a joking way, but it's not. It's
actually nothing to be to joke about. Is something that
is really necessary and I know the current players will
(41:32):
also fight for the former players for that to happen.
But I say everything that you said, the attendance, the viewership,
the merch sales, and all the companies that are investing.
It's not a charity case. It really has never been.
Now they understand when they invest the right amount, they're
going to have a return, and people are excited about it.
There's agencies that never represented women before, but now they
(41:53):
want to represent women because it's a profitable business. Everything
is about dollars and now they see that women in
for It's not just the NBA, but like you said, soccer, baseball,
all the softball. They all like they're going to have
a return when they invest their money.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, that's facts. It's all about the bottom dollars. I'm
trying to make a dollar too, y' just seen Mama
and Juan Soo signed just seven hundred and.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Million dollars z offit.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
I found this out yesterday. That breaks down to him
making roughly one hundred and forty thousand dollars a day.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And that's just interesting.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Interestingly in the gallery that there is crazy point is
I can stand in the outfield and catch a ball
brilliantly for half the price New.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
York stock in the quarter.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's okay, like that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
So yeah, you need your pension. Clearly the money is
out there. We just got to get it to the
right league. Yeah, no doubt now, Titha, it's been a
pleasure to have you. Thank thank you so much for
joining us and for kicking it with aus Ureyl you
got anything else you've been meaning to get off your.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Chest in these last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
No, I don't just listen. I will say this. I've
always had nothing but love and respect for Tisha, the
way she played the game, the way she carried herself,
the way she represented the game. And I absolutely love
what you're doing now because these players need someone like
you in their lives. And I just I got mad
love for you. I appreciate everything you you've you've ever done.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Thank you. I still have to guard show all the
time because I know that the point guard. So I
still have nightmares about that first step. I'm like, I
got it, and then I'm like, where's she go? She's
just scored on.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Me that we had great battles. We did, but you
know what, in those battles, it was always love and.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Respect always sure.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, for sure, I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Don't let me pull up some footage and be like,
what happened right here?
Speaker 4 (43:59):
I mean, let's not do that.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You and you should both already talked about. Rebecca got
more rings than I do, so I can't go back
than anybody.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Look for real, she could have had six, for real,
had Minnesota one this year against a darn.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I'm gonna be Queen Petty each and every single I.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Know you are. That's why I was glad the Asus.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Didn't have three. They're getting closer to four. I was like,
getting so close.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, yeah, sure, I'm gonna die on this, heel said,
and will.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Thanks for stopping by, t Sha. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Thank you guys so much for having me always welcome
discuss women's basketball and reminisce about the good old days.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So I learned a few things today during this podcast.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I learned.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Number one, that you act like two thousand and five
don't exist.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's cool, it.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Doesn't in my mind. I just we skip right over that, say.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
We skip right over there, got it? So I learned that.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I also learned that, you know, I don't think I
knew previously how much basketball was ingrained and Tisha's upbringing.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So that was great for me to learn but I also,
I don't want to say I.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Learned, but I think this is just something that I
already knew, and I was reaffirmed that like most women,
we understand the importance of representation, and Tisha just does
such an amazing job of ensuring that women are represented
in the agency space, in the representation space, and just
how important it is to continue to kind of give
(45:44):
that representation to many, many people across the world. Right
And so I truly enjoyed talking to t Sha today.
I know that you guys enjoyed talking to each other,
but just what were some of your takeaways from that
conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
You know, Tisha's always been just a down earth, easy
going but tough competitor. And what I really love is
where she is now, right like, like the space that
she's in now. And I would love to see more
(46:24):
former players get into the agency space, if that's something
they want to do, obviously, but I would love to
see it because, as Tisha said, right like, she gets
it and she's there to help the players. She's been there,
she's done that as a player and now as an agent,
so she understands and in a way, she understands the struggle.
(46:45):
She also understands how agents should work because she had
an agent, and I'll tell you agents are very different
today than they were back then. So just to be
able to have a conversation with her, and you know,
there were some some things I knew about t Sha
because obviously we played against each other, and then there
were some things that I didn't. But you know, she
(47:06):
is like the goddess or the queen of Portugal and
they love her. And I'm just so excited that I
got an opportunity to play against her, but even more
excited that I get to call her friend.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Absolutely, I do hope to get to Potrugal, Portugal soon
so that I can see this court that's named after her.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
I just think that that's incredibly do.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
When you get anything named after you, to me, I
just think that that's.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
A very it's kind of special.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
It's very special, very signifying of the kind of person
you are and what you mean to whatever that entity
is that dawned you worthy enough to have whatever that
is to have your name. So I definitely want to
be able to get a chance to go and see that.
But we are gonna wrap this thing up, but before
we go, we obviously have to have Cheryl level us
(47:53):
up for the next week.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, based off of you and I's comation on surface
level that we talked about and how I'm I'm I
don't know. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, but I'm
just I don't know, I'm in a little funky And
then to hear you say, yeah, with all the stuff
I've kind of gone through now, all the shit I've
(48:17):
kind of gone through this year, it's understandable. So here's
what I have. Here's what I found, and it says,
and this is from Wayne dire I don't know who
that is, but it's Wayne dier d ye Er and
it talks about growth, and it just says, with everything
that has happened to you, you can either feel sorry
(48:40):
for yourself or treat.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
What has happened as a gift.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
I don't know if I ever looked at stuff, shit
that I've gone through as a gift, right, but that
really stood out to me because I think I take
that and say, you know what, I have been through
a lot of shit, but I'm also very fortunate and
the ship that I've been through. You know, my mom
(49:06):
used to tell me if people aren't talking about you.
That means you're not doing something right. So yeah, that
just that just kind of stood out to me. So
I hope for everyone out there who tunes in, who listens,
if you're feeling some type of way about the holiday
season and you know, just about life, find find something
(49:27):
good in that, find something that you cherish or embrace,
and hold on to that and just know that it
will not last forever. And I'm telling you that, but
I'm also telling myself that in a happy holidays everybody.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, love that.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
That's a great That's a great thought, a great message,
and a great way to close out our show. So
thank you all everybody for listening to levels to this.
We will be back next week with more next level conversations.
We're getting towards the end of the calendar year, man,
so Cheryl, me and you are going to have to
really wrap up twenty twenty four on one of these
(50:07):
shows before this is over.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
But for all of our.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Fans, listen and just remember, guys that we love hearing
your thoughts. So this isn't just our show. It's our
show and we want to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
We love reading the.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Reviews that you leave in Apple podcasts, or you can
email us at Levels Too This Podcast at.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Tell us what you think of this week's show or
any of the other shows that you may have previously
listened to, or let us know what it is that
you want to talk about next. We just want to
hear from you, and you can also follow us on
Instagram at oltt pod. So until then, keep your mentals
ground level and we will be back to the next week.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Peace.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast network, iHeart,
open your free iHeart app and search Levels to This
with Cheryl Swoops and Terreka Foster Brasby and start listening
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, what's going on? Everybody? It's your girl, Trica Foster
Brassby and.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm your girl. Cheryl's swoops.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What's up? What's going on? And this is Levels to
this the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This is the show where we basically share that there
is levels to the shit.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That women go through. We really do have.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A fun show lined up for you all today, But
first I gotta tell Cheryl about what happened to me
this week.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Do tell detail?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I am traumatized in my own house.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Because on a Wednesday, I spent two hours with two
birds that got in my house.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Right and it was two of them.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Wait wait, wait, before you even go deeper, how did
they get in? You had a window door?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Was so I have a back patio door and I
tail Amazon to drop my packages off to the back
door to the back patio.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
That way.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
You know, number one ain't not sitting on my front porch,
but number two has been raining a lot lately, and
so my back patio was covered, so I would prefer
them to sit the boxes back there versus in the front.
The problem is I don't have a light on my
back porch as of right now.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm working on it. It's something there.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Okay, it looks like it should be a light there
of some sort, but it's not working.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So I need to get an electrician to see what's
going on.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So I know that I have these packages, and I
opened my door so that I can get these packages
off my back porch, and the moment I slide my
patio door open, I am instantly attacked by bird. Now
I and freaking out because I'm like, oh my god,
(02:04):
and it's nighttime. And it's nighttime. So it's a bright house,
mind you. I have the dining room lights on, the
living room lights on. I just turned the Christmas tree on,
so I can understand how a bird would fly in
my direction because it's bright as hell in my house. Right,
I say to myself, let me open up this door
(02:24):
so that the bird can.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Just fly right back on out. Soon as I slacked
the little screen back.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Girl, if bird never tuned in fling my damn house,
I am on the porch because at this point, I'm
not fighting two of you.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Are you terrified of birds? I am not terrified of
birds specifically. I'm saying that there are two animals in
my house that don't belong to me, and I'm gonna
let y'all have this shit because I'm not fighting y'all.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So the birds ran you out of your own house on.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Crib, and so I'm now strategically trying to figure out
how the hell I get back in my crib so
that I can at least open the front door or something, right,
And they just flying around.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I'm talking about dead ass flying around. Girl. They I
have a live tree.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
They posted up on the damn tree, posted up on
the tree like it's a real like it's a real tree.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
But they acting like we out. So they are all
on the tree.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They done flew all on my fireplace, knocking shit down.
I'm about ready to fight these birds, but I'm also
scared as hell because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I'm a kid of the eighties, the movie The Birds.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I don't know if these are.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The attacked human birds. I can take one, but I
can't take two. Oh my gosh, two hours.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So how did you finally get him out the house.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Finally I find well, first of all, let me tell
you that I had door dash on the way, So
now I didn't snuck in the house, got my keys,
I got a broom, and I'm trying to, like, you know,
very gently guide these damn birds to where the doors
are and their chests not. They're like, girl, I don't
even know why you keep playing with us. They're like,
(04:09):
what you what you're not gonna do? What's happening is
we live here now? For so hours, sir, this in
and out situation, y'all, y'all live here.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I could just see you running around with freaking out
or whatever you had tried. I'm there with you, like
I'm gonna terror I'm not terrified of birds. But you
don't belong in my house.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You don't belong out here.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So you got all of this space and to fly
and do whatever you want to do outside, but you
you don't have you can't be in my house.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
For a good fifteen minutes, like everything stopped moving, so
I thought maybe they like now at this point, the
front door's open, the back doors open, and I'm like,
maybe maybe they have flown out the house. Maybe when
I walked around from the front to the back, they
have flown out.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So here I go.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I take myself inside and I got the broom. I
still don't hear nothing, I don't see nothing, so I
think it's good now. They done knocked over my damn ornament.
My ornament is.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Now broke on the ground by my fireplace.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So I'm a little upset, but I'm like whatever, I
could take a broke ornament versus a broke face, because
I know birds like to attack faces and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right, So I begin.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
To sweep, and I guess I got too close to
the tree. Them damn birds was over there and the
tree sleep because you know they they sleep at night
like we him.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, they was. They heard me trying to sweep up.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, wait, is it a like a tree tree or
a Christmas tree.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It's a Christmas tree, but it's a lot of trill. Yeah,
I got you, I got you. Yeah girl, they girl.
They didn't help me.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
So apparently I woke them up out their sleep in
my house, on my Christmas tree, and they eventually, in fear,
flew right out the front door because I left the
front door open. It's rain and sure, old girl, this
water all in my damn hallway. Those were just risk.
I was willing to take water all in the hallway. Girl,
(06:22):
my door dash came. I sat in the car, trkeat on.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, if somebody
come get these birds out of my house.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
They're like, ma'am, we don't have nobody in your area
that's about to come and get no birds.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Fear it out.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I called Greg Greg like, I mean, what you want
me to do?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I'm at work, but.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know what, but that's something. Well, they do that
to us. They'll call us just looking for something like, Babe,
where is the I'm like, what you want me to do?
I'm way in la someone.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, you remember I told you Greg up here in
cold freezing because he refused to call the fat about
the oil. So I guess this was my paypack because
I sat in my car for two hours, and.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Girl, I cannot believe that you let the birds run
you out of your own crib.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I was not one I could handle two. It felt
like an ambush. And I said, no, I'm about to
order me some food.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I sent my corner and fish and just god, an ambush.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I am traumatized now because I go downstairs even now,
and I know there are no birds in my house,
and I'm still creeping around the staircase, like, let me
just make sure that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
They don't come from somewhere around the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Let me make sure that I you know, my god,
because I don't even really receiving both of them leave.
I really only recall actually seeing one fly. I don't
know where the other one.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Went, so in reality, you could still have a bird inside.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Sure, equip playing with me before I run up out
this podcast, I'm not even if.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You only saw one go out, but you saw to
come in. Da I mean, is there another way for
that other one to get out?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
All I know is if I hear a strange noise
in the basement, I'm locking this office door.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh my gosh, that was funny. I needed that laugh
for the day.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I did, I did, I did?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I did? Thank you?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Thanks all right. I knew she was going to judge
me all That's why I had to sell her down.
So so that's how my week has been.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
How's your word, bed?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Well, you know, I live in the country, so I
hear stuff all the time. But but I have to say.
I haven't been run out of my house by birds yet,
just have.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'm sorry I thought that though.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I thought this was a safe space and it's an
honest space. So but you know, I owe you.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That is you.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You. You you came for me about we won't go
back there.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But you did the camera you came.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah I did.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
We are, we are, we are even okay. But I mean,
other than that, my week has been it's it's been good.
Just I gotta be honest with you because that's what
we do.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I am trying so hard. Oh my gosh, why am
I getting emotional? I'm trying so hard to get into
the Christmas spirit, but I just can't. I don't know
if I'm the only one. I don't know how you're
feeling like. I have decorated, like my house, I've decorated
(09:44):
my little she shed it's all Christmas y because I'm
really trying to get in the spirit. But there's something
that is like just tugging at me. Or every time
I try to turn on Christmas music and you know,
pour me a nice dream and get in the Christmas spirit,
it's like something pulls me back. And it's like, Nope,
(10:06):
we ain't doing that this year. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You know that is you are not alone and that.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I tell people all the time, I have to do this,
like I have to decorate, I have to do all
like the Chris, I have.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But you know, this is my favorite holiday. Like I
think we've had this conversation. I know, Halloween is yours,
Christmas is mine. That's why I think I'm more like, like,
what the hell is going on with me? This is
my time of year. I don't know. I don't know.
So if anybody out there knows, or if you're feeling
(10:45):
the same way, You're.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Not the only one who feels that way, though, you know,
there is a thing and I don't. And I am
not a doctor obviously, so I'm not the one to
diagnose this kind of thing. But sometimes people fall into
like this seasonal depression type of thing where it lot
of feelings and emotions kind of come over you at
the same time, and it looks and feels different with everybody.
(11:07):
So it's very not possible. It could very very well
be possible. I don't like December. I lost my father
and my uncle in December. December second and December fifteenth,
and so that's a conversation.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We'll have another time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But I do all of the decorative and infestive stuff
to keep my mind going because if I just sat
down and did nothing, I would absolutely cry all day
every day.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I hate December. So I always feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's so and even my husband, though, he's like, you good,
and honestly, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Why He's like, Cuz,
like I have decorated, but it's not not like I
usually do. And I haven't bought a single Christmas gift
and usually by now like you're good, yeah, and yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
But you know what, this is usually a very cheerful
and joyous time of year. And truthfully, Cheryl, you've been
through some shit this year, you know what I'm saying,
And like maybe it's just not really feeling like you
just still have the weight of a lot of the
things that you've done and have gone through this year
that you just really maybe not be feeling it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And I do think the other part is like I'm
still a feeling some type of way about the election, right,
So I think there's a part of me that's like
just the uncertainty of where we're headed, right, like where
this country's headed doesn't really doesn't put me in a
(12:39):
good space, right So I think I'm kind of like, Okay,
I can't like turn that off because that's our reality
right now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yep, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I didn't I totally get it.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But one thing that I do know that regardless of
what this season has always been about the spirit of giving,
right and this is this is the season about being
in the spirit of giving. And at some point between
now and Christmas, I'm pretty sure you will feel better
(13:20):
or at least, you know, have maybe Jordan around or something,
somebody or something will make you feel a little bit
better about this season than you do now. And So
one thing that I love about this show today is
that we have someone who's going to be joining us
who did a lot of giving, a lot of giving,
(13:42):
as a matter of fact, maybe too many, too much
giving if you were her opponent, and that is Tisha Penicero.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
She is going to be joining us on the show today.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And if you know anything about Tisha, not you obviously
before our fans, if you know anything about Tisha. You
know that she was a point guard and she healthy
assist record for many years.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like she she loved to get a ball up, love
that this way.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So one of the best to ever do it, the
best to ever do it. And so we are incredibly
excited to talk to Tisha for our next level conversation.
And so why make the people wait, Let's go ahead
and give them to them. Coming up right now. We
are incredibly excited about today's guests. I always love when
(14:28):
there's an opportunity for me to bring on a guest
that has a connection to Chryl because I want to
know how much shit is going to be talked on
this podcast just by the time we get into the
thick of the conversation. How much you know did we
did not get a chance to get off my chest
when I played against you.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's gonna come out on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
But guys, I want you all to make some noise
for who I have said.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And I know the China is another person who has
said this.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
We both believe that this person is probably the greatest
pastor we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You need to pick up a basketball. She is a
w NBA champion.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
She was the number two overall pick by the Sacramento Monarchs.
She's a three time All w n B A selection,
four time All Star. What can we say about the
great Tsha Pincero?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Hey, Tsha, Hey.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Hey ladies, Hi, Hey, thank you for having me on
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Tell me if you remember this before we get in,
Ta Dha Tisha?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Is that JJ?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I think he was a Nike appear It's important.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes, Jordan used to have the biggest crush on Tsha
when he was a little bit he did. I was like, oh,
that's cute, and so he couldn't hey, but he wouldn't
just call her Tisha. It was always t Shadja Tja.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I got to stay three times.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yeah, so I know it's real. Say it three times.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
He's gonna be so mad at me for saying that.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
First off, Tsha, thank you for making some time to
join Sherly and I. When we talked about guests that
we wanted to have on the show, you were obviously
one of the ones that instantly popped up for so
many reasons.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Because one, this game of basketball is growing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
You certainly had a hand in that, but too just
because you're doing dope shit right now, Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's just so many things.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
We were at the finals, and you have players who
were in the finals, and so we'll get into that,
but I just want to start at the beginning. There
are so many different people that have different reasons for
gravitating to the game of basketball, and you being from Portugal,
you not necessarily having the same upbringing as so many others.
(16:40):
I just want to know, how did you get into
the game of basketball.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Yeah, I was about five growing up in Portugal. My
dad played and then he was my first coach, and
I have an older brother that also played, so right
away there was basketballs in the house. And this is Portugal,
where it's a very small country. It's a soccer country,
not much basketball per se, or women's basketball. And actually,
when I was like twelve thirteen, I had to start
(17:04):
playing with the boys because there was no girls team
for my age group. So my dad was my first
coach and it was me. I mean I did look
like a little boy, to be honest, I had a
little bowl cut, and I can't honestly say it was
love at first sight. I totally loved the game. I
was also very lucky because I had a playground right
next door to my house, which in Europe is not
super normal, so I spent a lot of time a
(17:26):
lot of times. I was also the only girl amongst
all the boys, and I remember them telling me go
home and go play with your dolls, and I'm like,
I'm not going home to play with any dolls. I
want to play here and play basketball. So I was persistent,
and obviously, looking back, I made the right decision.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Well, teacher, I don't think that's any different regardless of
what country you grow up in, boys telling you to
go play with your dolls, because that was my story too.
I could never find enough girls that were interested in
playing basketball right where we could do five on five,
so it was always me playing with the boys. And
(18:05):
when you think about your journey and how you got
to the WNBA, what was the toughest part for you
coming from Portugal to the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I think leaving my family, going into unknown territory where
English was not my first language, because I first went
to Old Dominion. So when I left a good old Dominion,
there was no WNBA. So my goal was grow as
a woman, grow as a basketball player, get my degree,
and then go play in Europe. So the timing was
also perfect because I was already in the States when
the WNBA started, so obviously I had a chance to
(18:41):
be seen, but that was not the goal. The goal
was never the WNBA until he was but leaving my
family and just going after what I wanted to do
and risking it all.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Basically, what I think is interesting is number one geographically,
coming from Poletriical to Virginia in itself is very different.
But I think there's a process is that international players
go through with just what you mentioned, leaving your family
understanding that things are different. So I think about Camilla Cardoso,
for example, who is someone who comes from Brazil, her
(19:11):
family is still there, and she kind of talked about
that mindset of there's a goal when I come to
the States to do something different, to provide better for
my family. Can you just talk a little bit about
how or what you've seen from international players and how
difficult that can be sometimes to make that transition leaving
your family behind.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I can tell it back in my day was way
more difficult. We didn't have anynet. Okay, that's how old
I am, so I can just FaceTime or WhatsApp or
get my parents on video like I literally had to
write letters, put them in the mail and they will
get them, like two weeks later. I had to call
home with calling cards and they were so expensive. So
I think, obviously you are homesick. You miss your comfort zone,
(19:51):
you miss your family, you miss whatever food that your
mom cooks, you miss your friends. But at the end
of the day, I think these days is so much
easier to bridge that gap because there's technology and there's internet,
which back in the day we didn't have that. But
at the end of the day, you just have to
focus on your goals and your dreams and the reason
why you left in the first place, and then just
(20:12):
stick with it. There's also a lot of foreign players
that come and then they don't adjust and they go back.
They don't get the degree, and they don't finish their
school because they can't take it. And I can't tell
you it wasn't peaches and cream every day. But I
just kept the eyes on the price, and I knew
the reason why I was there, and I wanted to
be the best basketball player that I could be. I
didn't know what that meant at the time, but I
(20:32):
know he just took a lot of sacrifice and being
away from families, it was number one.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Here's the thing for me, what I think makes the
WNBA so good and so competitive then and now it
is the international flavor. It's the international players that we
have because the style of play internationally, for people who
don't know, is it's a lot more physical than it
is here and it's just different. So to me, without
(20:59):
the international players, I don't know if the league would
be as competitive as it is. And I bring all
that up to say Tisha may not say this, but
you know, basketball does some incredible things for people. So
Jordan my Son his first year professionally, went to play
(21:21):
in Portugal, which actually happened to be Tisha. Correct me
if I'm wrong. Tisha's hometown in.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
My first club and her first club.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And right, and this is when I first found out.
And then I'm bringing this up because I want Tisha
to talk to us about it. That Tisha actually has
her own outdoor court, her outdoor basketball court. Not just court,
it's a basketball court.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I mean, that's the core where I start playing, where
the dreams start, you know, making you know, becoming reality
a little bit where all the boys were telling me
to go home. And I can tell them listen to
to my court now, so you go home and play
and play.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
With you go home, get off my car.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
But I think it was it was just a Federation
of Portugal. They just wanted to honor me and obviously
my career and everything that I that I did. And
I'm an American now citizen now, but I'm very proud
of Portuguese citizen. That's where it runs through my blood.
That's my heart. And to go back to Portugal and
to know that that's where everything started and out that
(22:25):
court is in honor of me and everything that I
did in my career, it's actually very special.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Now there is going to be some basketball being played
in northern California, and granted, Sacramento ain't quite the Bay
and don't let nobody in California, you know, you say
that around the wrong folks.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
They get in a feelies what you mean.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
It's ain't set down like okay, we get it brow
But there is still such a history of women's basketball
and women's basketball fans in that area because of everything
that was accomplished by the Monarchs. Just when you think
back to that time and also thinking about now with
the new Golden State Valkyries. Just what do you think
(23:14):
about how this league has continued to grow and expand
over the course of the last several years, specifically since
the time that you played.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Yeah, I remember a time that we were at sixteen
and then we kept Unfortunately, Sheherylyn and I on the
same boat. The Houston Comets disappeared, the Monarchs folded. These
are teams that have great history where two of the
initial franchises we won championships. The city was so involved
and the owners just weren't with it anymore. To me,
the thing that hurt the most is that we didn't
know that we were going to fold. We didn't have
(23:42):
a chance to say goodbye to our fans. We folded
in the off season the maloofs at the time, the
owners of the team didn't even try to sell it,
and I think if they did, we would have created
some interest in Sacramento to keep the city, to keep
the team in the city. And I just have great
members of Sacramento. Obviously, I played twelve years there and
I would have played there on my whole I would
have never went to LA and then my last year
in Chicago because that's how much I love Sacramento, and
(24:05):
I really love the fans, And even though the Golden
State Valkyries are not in Sacramento, they're close enough where
I hope some of those fans will continue to support
this team because I know they're still heartbroken and I
know they are WNBA fans.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, yeah, that is like one of the things that
crushes me when I think about the league, just Sacramento
and not having a team, Houston not having a team.
And this could be a whole different conversation, but tis
when you look at the league and the game today,
what do you see that excites you and what do
you also see that concerned you?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
If anything, it excites me that little girls have so
many women role models. I didn't you probably didn't. I
wanted to be like Magic, I wanted to be like
Michael Jordan. I didn't have any women, like I said,
also could not go on YouTube and try to do
any search because we didn't have internet. To me, all
my role models besides my mom, and she didn't even
play sports. They're all male athletes. So the most exciting
(25:01):
thing for me not just in basketball, but there's so
many other sports where women are thriving, and there's so
many little girls that can aspire to be so many
different players at different sports. The things that scares me
is that twenty eight years in, we are still moving
very slow, at a snail pace when it comes to
a lot of things. We don't have a pension. The
salaries are still not comparable to the NBA, and I
(25:23):
would never compare that, but still there's a huge gap.
But I do believe with the UCBA being able to
be negotiated this year that things will change. Right now,
I'm more excited than i'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, I agree with Tea and La China and so
many others. I've said this before and I'm going to
say it to you. I think you are one of
the best passing guards that this game's ever seen. And
there's stuff today when players are playing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
They're like, oh, wow, did you see that?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
We've never seen anything like that, And I'm like, eh,
but we have. Maybe y'all haven't because y'all just started watching.
But when you look at the game today, is there
a player that reminds you of yourself?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
I think she's now a little more of a score
than she was maybe a few years ago. But I
would say Chelsea Gray she's from the base, so she
was watching the Sacramento Monarchs when I play there, and
I actually was just with her like this past weekend,
and she every time I see her, she always is
so complimentary of the fact that I was her favorite player. Yeah,
and now she's my favorite player because obviously I'm a
little bias towards point guards. And she just makes her
(26:30):
teammates better and she calls her own number when she
has to. So if I could say anyone, I would
say her.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Not a bad one, not a bad one at all.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And I actually want to stick on that trend because
when we talk about the Monarchs and you talk about teammates,
there's a teammate that sticks out in my mind that
I don't think people talk about enough. When I think
about Landa Griffith, for example, Like why people ain't talking
about Yo like they need to be talking about y'oll.
But is there a teammate or a moment or someone
who you remember playing alongside that you were like Yo,
(27:04):
that was one of the best to do this or
one of the greatest at this, and maybe you feel
like they don't get enough recognition that you think they deserve.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I would say Rebecca Brunson. She's the only player that
has five rings, five championships. She even has more than Cheryl. Okay,
I know, so that's crazy, Yeah, yeah, no, but I
just don't think she may rebound pretty. It was pretty
to watch it rebound, and she was just like a
(27:33):
glue player. Nobody really talked about her because she played
with Yo and myself and then she went to Minnesota
and had Simona and had Way and then Maya. But
she's someone that without her, Minnesota doesn't have those championships.
We don't have that championship in Sacramento. And I just
don't think she gets enough credit.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I don't mean to be messy or nothing, but I
think I remember in two thousand.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
I think it's it's five because I'm not that old.
Like I'm not young, but I'm not that old. I'm
forty if I remember correctly. Around that time, in order
for the Monarchs to get to the finals, they had
to play a team might have been a Houston comments.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
It took us a while to figure them out, like
everybody everybody did. I mean, you just took a while.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I'm just curious that there are any memories from that matchup.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
A lot of losses.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I don't remember that at all.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You know, back then he was a versus East. So
for you to get out the West to get to
the finals, you had to be Houston, you had to
be La Phoenix. So it might be biased, but I
think the West was definitely stronger than the East. Everything
is different now, like you just picked the best eight
teams in spite of where they're from. But yeah, it
was really tough to get out of the West.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
You know what's funny about that is that even though
it's not divided by conferences anymore, I must say that
I do enjoy you being the top eight teams, But
over the last couple of years, it still feels like
it still ends up being an East team versus a
West team. And I feel like with expansion continuing, it
may be difficult to keep up this top eight. We
(29:05):
might get to a point where we may have to
go back to East versus West, or bringing conference alignment
to make a little bit more sense than just the
Commissioner's Cup that they have right now.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I can decide, right I go back and forth on
if I like it East versus West, or if I
like the top eight, because to me, sometimes I'm like,
let's send the best ten teams we have according to
their record and the way they've played. Let's send them
to the playoffs, and let's see what happens. What I
will just go back and say, and we'll skip over
two thousand and five. Listen, I'm still in my feelings
(29:38):
about it. I'm still salty because I don't like losing.
But I just remember just the battles that we had,
right It wasn't just like the comments and the liberty
or the comments and the sparks like Sacramento. It's the same.
I agree with Tisha, Rebecca Brunson one of the best
hardest working players that you will ever see, and she
(30:00):
doesn't get talked about enough. I agree with you. I
don't think Elanda Griffith gets talked about enough. I don't
think Ruthie Bolton gets talked about enough.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's just there's so.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Many former players that had a lot to do with
where this game is today that I think they get
overlooked at times. And I just remember going to Sack
or Sack, coming to Houston, and the battles that we
always had. Tisha, Keedra Holland Korn Demaya. It just it
was so much fun for us to be able to
(30:30):
compete night in and night out, for sure, But I
want to go to what you're doing now. I know
for a lot of players, when you retire or when
it's close to retirement, and when the time comes, a
lot of players are like kinda in Limbo. I was
one of those players that was like, I don't know
what I'm going to do when I retire. Tisha, tell
us what you're doing now. But also, did you immediately
(30:53):
know that you wanted to become an agent.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I didn't know immediately. I just knew immediately that I
didn't want to coach. I've been a point guard all
my life, so I feel like I've coached on my life,
and I definitely didn't want to have the same routine.
Being inside of a gym watching film is just the
same exact routine that you have as a player. Actually,
even more, I knew that much that right away I
don't want to coach, But I knew that I wanted
to stay involved. I knew that I want to give
(31:17):
back to the game. So when I start seeing the
light and I'm like, Okay, my career is coming to
an end, I start thinking a little bit more what
I wanted to do next. And at the time there
wasn't too many women representing women, especially women that played
the game. So the more start thinking about it is
just start making sense. So yeah, it was maybe like
a year and a half where to me, I have
(31:37):
to live everything in my head first and then to
make it to fruition, and I think, to me, it
was just like, this is exactly what I want to do.
The more I thought about it just made sense. So
it was a smooth transition because I was already mentally
prepared to do so when I retire in twenty twelve,
I just go went ahead and I got certified with
FIBA and also with the WNVPA. And it's been crazy
(31:58):
twelve years now that i've Wow Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And you're currently an agent with One Time Agency Group
and some of your clients Bridget Carlton, Megan Gustulson, Liz Kaitley,
Kayla McBride, Mikayla on your way to Alisa Peely. When
you're looking to sign clients, are there a particular type
of players that you're looking at?
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Obviously you want talent, but to me, personality, values, respect
for the game, respect, for myself. It's super important because
I want to come into this business to be a mentor,
and I can't mentor you if you don't respect me,
if you don't listen to what I'm going to say.
There's been situations when I recruited just based on talent
and I knew that it wasn't going to be a
good fit.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I wanted to challenge myself because I came into this
business to help the next generation. But at the end
of the day, I just realized it's not for everybody.
So I'm very particular about who I sign. Is very
important that they have good values, they're good people, that
just good family. All of that stuff is important to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You also talked about a moment ago how growing up
you didn't really have any who you felt like you
could look up to. And there are still some battles
that women are fighting as it relates to being in
the agent space. You have some that are starting to
make a name for themselves and that have make a
name for themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I think about you, I think about Jay League.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I know you spent some time at SIG Agency as well,
but just how important is it for you to continue
to kind of advocate for women in this space outside
of just the clients that you represent.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
It's super important and that's one of the reasons why
I came into the space, and not to just be
an agent. I don't want to just do contracts. I
want to be a mentor. I want to advise you
on basketball, on life. I think I wear so many hats,
but again, like your clients have too, you have to
feel comfortable enough to wear those hats and talk to
them about all types of different things. And I just
came into this business to obviously pay it forward. I
(33:45):
just want women's basketball to continue to grow. So I
take this job very seriously because their career is a
little bit in my hands. But I just think also
to show them out to be a good pro, to
be on time, to you know, be a good teammate,
to listen. I think all those things are part of
the package in a lot of the boxes that I
pick when I am selecting the players that I want
to sign.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I know, for me, if I was a current
player and I was looking for representation, I would absolutely
look for someone like a Tisha who's played the game,
knows the space, has been around, because I think you
can teach them and show them things that someone who
didn't play the game can't. But would you ever represent
(34:24):
male athletes? So do you represent male athletes?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I don't. But with this new agency, I am way
more involved on the men's side. So I am the
vice president of this agency. So at the end of
the day, I know everything that is going on. With
Sports International Group, I was really just focused on the women.
I had no idea what was going on the men's side.
But with this agency, I know everything that is going
on with all of our clients, whether they male or female.
(34:50):
Right now, I'm only licensed to sign the BNBA player. Okay,
I'm never going to say never, but for now, I'm
happy where I am this year. I feel like this
is my lane and this is where I can make
the most impact. But I'm definitely helping remond sessions with
the CEO and the male agent to make decisions and
to recruit.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
We've been kicking it with Tischa Pinchero and when we
come back after the break, we got some more stuff
we want to dig into just a little bit. So
stay with us, guys. Welcome back to the levels to
this podcast. It's your girl, Trerika FoST de brasby, of
course kicking it with my co host Cheryl and our
(35:28):
special guest today Tischa Pinchero and Cheryl and I actually
had an entire show dedicated to career transitions right and
coming to the realization that there are other things that
can be a part of your purpose outside of what
it is that you do. If it were not basketball,
if it were not being an agent. Is there a
passion or a hobby of yours or something that you
(35:50):
could see yourself doing or being involved in. What do
we need to know about Tisha that's not on a
basketball court.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Oh man, It's so hard to answer that question because
basket is such a huge part of my life from
a very young age. So when I get asked that question,
I never know what to say because I can't even
see myself without basketball. I love animals, so maybe I
would have been a vet. Or I love traveling, so
maybe being like a travel agent or something like that.
But like I said, I never know what the answer
because basketball is engraving me almost from the first time
(36:20):
I start walking, so it's hard to imagine me doing
anything else.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I could see travel agent. Let me help you about
this crew.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Here I could see her being a flight attendant like
I wanted to be.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Oh god, Cheryl told us she wanted to be a
flight attendant or a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Wow? I had no idea, that's I said.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Thank God that didn't happen, but yeah, that's kind of
what I.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thought, Tisha.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I got a question for you, so the whole NIL think.
Two questions for you is one are you guys representing
athletes in the NIL space? And two? How do you
think that has changed the game?
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Oh? We changed completely, and for the women more than
the man. Because the man they can be one and done.
They can stay in one years, but then you go
to the pros and start making money. The women, you
have Angel Rees obviously she's in the pros now, but
you have Flage, you have Juju Paige. All of those players,
they probably made more money that I'm my whole career,
(37:25):
no doubt. They're not even pros yet. So obviously he
has changed tremendously, and I'm glad because it shows evolution.
But it's also not for everyone. And I think sometimes
when you recruit players for NIL, you have to be
making sure that their expectations are realistic, because otherwise you're
going to fail as an agent because not just them,
their parents is who all have super unrealistic expectations that
(37:47):
most likely you're not going to meet. We do have
three players. One is she's actually a Portuguese player that
is placed for Kentucky. She's sixty seven, she's a freshman.
She's in Kentucky, Klauda Silva. And then we have Fagan
from South Carolina. Yeah, and also some spencer from Tennessee.
So those are the only three players that we have
on the women's side.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
For Nil, you talked about coaching not necessarily being for you,
but I do know your agency represents Camille Little who
has gotten into coaching at Paul Quinn.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Also is Camille Little Smith because if I don't correct you,
she probably gonna get on me. So Kimille Little Smith.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Let me not disrespect the married name. Okay.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, So we actually opened a Next Chapter division not
too long ago, and Camille was our first signee. I
actually represented her towards the last few years of her
basketball career and she didn't have an agent and just
reached out to me a few months ago asking if
I could help her and I said, listen. She didn't
even know that I had left Seek to go to
on time agency. So I told her, listen, just give
(38:43):
me a few months because we actually about to start
this new chapter division that is exactly for former players
that are in limbo. They don't know what to do.
It could be media, it can be reporters. But we
very slowly to sign people into that space. So we
only signed Camille Little on the women's side, and we
signed Bobby Simmons on the man inside. But yeah, now
we do represent Camille and she was let go by
(39:04):
the Sparks this summer. She was an assistant coach with
the Sparks, so we currently trying to find her another job.
But like you said, she also is coaching at Paul
Queen right now as a head coach.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I love that. I think that's huge because there are
so many former players who need the help. Right Like
you've been your entire career, you've had an agent, and
your agent they have the connects or the contacts, and
so they find those opportunities for you. And then when
you retire, and a lot of instances and it's like,
well what's next for me?
Speaker 4 (39:34):
I actually can also say that the day that the
balls stop bouncing, the day that you stop making your
agent a paycheck, they don't return your call, call emails
or cars, you're just like you don't exist anymore. So
the next chapter division obviously. The day that we announced it,
our dms were popping, and we're going to be very
selective because we want to make sure that the people
that we sign, we can help everyone and be really
(39:55):
hands on with all of our clients, whether there are
players or their coaches, and if we sign too many people,
you can be as hands on as we want to.
But it's definitely something that we needed to start because,
like you said, sometimes it's just so lost. You just
don't know what the next step will be. And the
person that is supposed to have you back and help
you your agent, Yeah, you know where to be fount.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Before we get out of here, I look at the
WNBA now, I look at the young players, the Caitlin
Clark's and the Angel Reeses and the Eliah Edwards, and
I look at all of the new coaches that are
coming into the league this year now, and I don't
know if I'm more excited about the talent level and
how that continues to get bigger and better, or the marketing,
(40:35):
the television views, the audience, the people gravitating to it,
because it's not even just basketball right now, it's all
women's sports, Soccer, it's tennis, coco, golf is amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Some own bios is next level.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Just right now, women's sports are in and we always
should have been. Quite honestly, there are so many people
that are finally opening their eyes to recognize how amazing
women are in this space cites you or motivates you
to feel excited about the future of women's sports.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Having a pension and I'm just paying Oh no.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
No, no, say it, say it, yeah, say it loud.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Yeah, I say it's important. Having a pension would be
super important. That's the NBA has it. Like I played
fifteen years in the w NBA, I get zero dollars
from all the work, all injuries that I had, all
the sweat, blood and tears that I put in. So
I said in a joking way, but it's not. It's
actually nothing to be to joke about. Is something that
is really necessary and I know the current players will
(41:32):
also fight for the former players for that to happen.
But I say everything that you said, the attendance, the viewership,
the merch sales, and all the companies that are investing.
It's not a charity case. It really has never been.
Now they understand when they invest the right amount, they're
going to have a return, and people are excited about it.
There's agencies that never represented women before, but now they
(41:53):
want to represent women because it's a profitable business. Everything
is about dollars and now they see that women in
for It's not just the NBA, but like you said, soccer, baseball,
all the softball. They all like they're going to have
a return when they invest their money.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, that's facts. It's all about the bottom dollars. I'm
trying to make a dollar too, y' just seen Mama
and Juan Soo signed just seven hundred and.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Million dollars z offit.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
I found this out yesterday. That breaks down to him
making roughly one hundred and forty thousand dollars a day.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
And that's just interesting.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Interestingly in the gallery that there is crazy point is
I can stand in the outfield and catch a ball
brilliantly for half the price New.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
York stock in the quarter.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's okay, like that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
So yeah, you need your pension. Clearly the money is
out there. We just got to get it to the
right league. Yeah, no doubt now, Titha, it's been a
pleasure to have you. Thank thank you so much for
joining us and for kicking it with aus Ureyl you
got anything else you've been meaning to get off your.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Chest in these last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
No, I don't just listen. I will say this. I've
always had nothing but love and respect for Tisha, the
way she played the game, the way she carried herself,
the way she represented the game. And I absolutely love
what you're doing now because these players need someone like
you in their lives. And I just I got mad
love for you. I appreciate everything you you've you've ever done.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Thank you. I still have to guard show all the
time because I know that the point guard. So I
still have nightmares about that first step. I'm like, I
got it, and then I'm like, where's she go? She's
just scored on.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Me that we had great battles. We did, but you
know what, in those battles, it was always love and.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Respect always sure.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, for sure, I love that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Don't let me pull up some footage and be like,
what happened right here?
Speaker 4 (43:59):
I mean, let's not do that.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
You and you should both already talked about. Rebecca got
more rings than I do, so I can't go back
than anybody.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Look for real, she could have had six, for real,
had Minnesota one this year against a darn.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I'm gonna be Queen Petty each and every single I.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Know you are. That's why I was glad the Asus.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Didn't have three. They're getting closer to four. I was like,
getting so close.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, yeah, sure, I'm gonna die on this, heel said,
and will.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Thanks for stopping by, t Sha. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Thank you guys so much for having me always welcome
discuss women's basketball and reminisce about the good old days.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So I learned a few things today during this podcast.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
I learned.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Number one, that you act like two thousand and five
don't exist.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's cool, it.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Doesn't in my mind. I just we skip right over that, say.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
We skip right over there, got it? So I learned that.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I also learned that, you know, I don't think I
knew previously how much basketball was ingrained and Tisha's upbringing.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So that was great for me to learn but I also,
I don't want to say I.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Learned, but I think this is just something that I
already knew, and I was reaffirmed that like most women,
we understand the importance of representation, and Tisha just does
such an amazing job of ensuring that women are represented
in the agency space, in the representation space, and just
how important it is to continue to kind of give
(45:44):
that representation to many, many people across the world. Right
And so I truly enjoyed talking to t Sha today.
I know that you guys enjoyed talking to each other,
but just what were some of your takeaways from that
conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
You know, Tisha's always been just a down earth, easy
going but tough competitor. And what I really love is
where she is now, right like, like the space that
she's in now. And I would love to see more
(46:24):
former players get into the agency space, if that's something
they want to do, obviously, but I would love to
see it because, as Tisha said, right like, she gets
it and she's there to help the players. She's been there,
she's done that as a player and now as an agent,
so she understands and in a way, she understands the struggle.
(46:45):
She also understands how agents should work because she had
an agent, and I'll tell you agents are very different
today than they were back then. So just to be
able to have a conversation with her, and you know,
there were some some things I knew about t Sha
because obviously we played against each other, and then there
were some things that I didn't. But you know, she
(47:06):
is like the goddess or the queen of Portugal and
they love her. And I'm just so excited that I
got an opportunity to play against her, but even more
excited that I get to call her friend.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Absolutely, I do hope to get to Potrugal, Portugal soon
so that I can see this court that's named after her.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
I just think that that's incredibly do.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
When you get anything named after you, to me, I
just think that that's.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
A very it's kind of special.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
It's very special, very signifying of the kind of person
you are and what you mean to whatever that entity
is that dawned you worthy enough to have whatever that
is to have your name. So I definitely want to
be able to get a chance to go and see that.
But we are gonna wrap this thing up, but before
we go, we obviously have to have Cheryl level us
(47:53):
up for the next week.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, based off of you and I's comation on surface
level that we talked about and how I'm I'm I
don't know. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, but I'm
just I don't know, I'm in a little funky And
then to hear you say, yeah, with all the stuff
I've kind of gone through now, all the shit I've
(48:17):
kind of gone through this year, it's understandable. So here's
what I have. Here's what I found, and it says,
and this is from Wayne dire I don't know who
that is, but it's Wayne dier d ye Er and
it talks about growth, and it just says, with everything
that has happened to you, you can either feel sorry
(48:40):
for yourself or treat.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
What has happened as a gift.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
I don't know if I ever looked at stuff, shit
that I've gone through as a gift, right, but that
really stood out to me because I think I take
that and say, you know what, I have been through
a lot of shit, but I'm also very fortunate and
the ship that I've been through. You know, my mom
(49:06):
used to tell me if people aren't talking about you.
That means you're not doing something right. So yeah, that
just that just kind of stood out to me. So
I hope for everyone out there who tunes in, who listens,
if you're feeling some type of way about the holiday
season and you know, just about life, find find something
(49:27):
good in that, find something that you cherish or embrace,
and hold on to that and just know that it
will not last forever. And I'm telling you that, but
I'm also telling myself that in a happy holidays everybody.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, love that.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
That's a great That's a great thought, a great message,
and a great way to close out our show. So
thank you all everybody for listening to levels to this.
We will be back next week with more next level conversations.
We're getting towards the end of the calendar year, man,
so Cheryl, me and you are going to have to
really wrap up twenty twenty four on one of these
(50:07):
shows before this is over.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
But for all of our.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Fans, listen and just remember, guys that we love hearing
your thoughts. So this isn't just our show. It's our
show and we want to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
We love reading the.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Reviews that you leave in Apple podcasts, or you can
email us at Levels Too This Podcast at.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Tell us what you think of this week's show or
any of the other shows that you may have previously
listened to, or let us know what it is that
you want to talk about next. We just want to
hear from you, and you can also follow us on
Instagram at oltt pod. So until then, keep your mentals
ground level and we will be back to the next week.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Peace.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast network, iHeart,
open your free iHeart app and search Levels to This
with Cheryl Swoops and Terreka Foster Brasby and start listening
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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