October 2, 2025 • 52 mins
On this episode of Levels to This, Messy Monday for the WNBA falls on a Tuesday. Natalie Esquire joins Terrika Foster-Brasby and Sheryl Swoopes to unpack it all. Napheesa Collier slams Commissioner Cathy Englebert, saying that the WNBA has the “worst leadership in the world" and revealed the Commissioner has said some very strange things. The players, at least, are Team Phee! Plus the Wings sneak in the announcement that they parted ways with Chris Koclanes while it was all going down. And, yes, some great basketball was played as well. Get your popcorn!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, everybody, what's going on in your girl? Trika Foster Brassby.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Y'all?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
All is your girls?
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Cheryl swoops Hey, and this is the levels to this podcast.
This is the show where we talk about the levels
to the ship that women go through.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And Cheryl, I'm going through.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Some ship right now, are you? I am?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm not dismissing that, but I have to say this
because you know I'm gonna be petty.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I bet you you ain't going through as much shit
as Kathy. All Right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
The ship I'm going through is just my team is losing.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Going through She about to lose her job, and that's
a totally different different situation.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I was being petty, you know, I had to be petty.
I had.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So much has happened over the last year, I mean
year down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So much has happened over the last year.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It's been twenty four hours, though that's the same type
of year. It's been twenty four hours and We're definitely
gonna get way into this and a lot more when
we go to the next level with a special guest
that I'm very excited to have joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But girl, where were you?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I feel I feel like people be like, where were
you when such and such happened?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Years?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
So now too, ask where were you when the FISA
let the chopper spray?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So I'm so so.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I literally was sitting getting ready to sit in my
chair to get my petticure and my mandicure and my
nails done. Mm hmm girl, and I put my headphones in,
and you know, I'm like, let's fee, Let's see what
she has to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Hm hm hm.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I told my nail tech, I said hello, amen. Because
I needed my hands, I had to cover.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
My mouth.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Clap.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Girl, I don't even know what to say except about
damn time. That's what I'll say. That's what I'm gonna saying.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay. So, and then it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Took somebody liked Fee to be that one it did
it did to say enough is enough.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
To say enough is enough. I am.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I was doing exactly what I'm doing right now, which
is watching Tigers baseball, and I cut w NBA out
of my life for two hours two and a half
because I said, I cannot focus on WNBA when I
ain't watching postseason baseball and I'm trying to get my
Tigers to the next round, right, And I just kept seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
On my Twitter he said what Fee did?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
What?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And I'm like, damn, I don't want to look because
I'm trying to focus on the game.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But what the hell did he say? They got my Twitter?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
This girl.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
When I looked and read that ship, I said, oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
God, like, this is what I want to hear at
an exit interview. So there are so many things.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And at the same time that that was going on,
Kurt Miller thought he was gonna be slick as hell
and fire Chris go Clinton.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Think what nobody snuck that in?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He snuck that in around five o'clock where people was
driving home and writing they think pieces about.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What people said, still talking about peg and.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Then Kathy didn't released hersir So, girl, they didn't snuck
that shit in. I said, there all, y'all are Usually
the w NBA is messy on Monday, but y'all turned
up on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, this is turn up Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Oh girl.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And we hadn't even gotten to the game.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yet we ain't ain't got it again.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
All of this before the fever day.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
This was before the game five, an elimination game actually
takes place.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I could not deal with the w NBA on Tuesday.
It was too much.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I didn't know I needed that on my Tuesday, but
I did.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
We needed that. It was much needed. It was much needed.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And so.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
At this point, you know, I feel like so many
people have said so many different things and have gone
into so many different reasons as to what and what and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
How and how, But it ain't real until t and
Ryl get on it.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I know, sorry, because I'm stop you right now, like
I soa can hear your baseball game?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Can you really? Oh my god, I didn't even realize.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Oh girl, First of all, I hear it all. I
feel like we should keep this in the show your
faceball I fix so you know what, because you just
said what you were doing was doing it, and but
I was like, I could hear it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I can't hear damn you know I didn't.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
It didn't even dawn on me that I had not
put the television on mute. See it's all right, you know,
I need to mute that ship anyway, because the side
to biss me off to day, I don't need to
hear that game.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I don't need to hear that game no more. I
need to turn it off. Maybe maybe it's me. Maybe
I'm the problem.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Sure, maybe it's maybe because I'm watching, this is why
they acting like this.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Maybe it's me.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know if you're the problem, but but I
am that way. Sometimes It's like if I'm cheering for
specific team and they're doing really good until I start
watching and then they start losing and start playing bad.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I'm like, ahh is that me? Ladies?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Were you superstitious as a player?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah I was. I had to do I
had to do certain things before every game. I had
to eat my certain like my Snickers and Doctor Pepper
like I had to have that before every game I.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Did.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That is quite a combination, I know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But I also like I also got ready the same
way every game.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
That was Yeah, I guess it was.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You strike me.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I'm sorry, but it's way too much other stuff to
talk about. The me being superstitious.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I'm sorry, you right, but because you know, a Cathy
better be superstitious. Maybe she has her person on the floor.
Maybe she walked up under a load of a cat
cross her feet.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Or maybe or or maybe you.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Talking about how players should be grateful and thankful and
get on their knees and how you don't never mind,
I won't even get into all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
We're about to get into all of that right now.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
So at this point we're gonna go ahead and take
this thing to the next level. So, guys, there was
no way that Sheryl and I could have this conversation
(07:31):
without bringing in an additional voice to just add to
the shananigans that we about to do for the next
twenty minutes. And none better than my girl holding it
down at NBC Natalie Esquire and what's up?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Net Oh.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I'm so grateful for you guys to have me on
on this very busy day before we get head to
the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I know it was good.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Not listen, I have to say this because you know,
I'm I'm a hair girl, and T knows that me
and T we go talking about hair all the time.
And Sis, let me just tell you the hair is hairing. Yes, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I need that.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
I need that clip because let me go side. My
hair is.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, she pushed it up on it a week ago,
she had the bangs going on.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I said, who is this new girl? Excuse me? I
do have a.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Little bob looked like you ryl. The only thing is
I have some bangs.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
But I don't know. I missed my curly hair so quick.
But I might, I might. I might go back to
the bangs in the bar a little bit for the finals.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So Natalie, what exactly like was your hair standing up
on the back of your head when you heard that
four minute opening statement?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For sure?
Speaker 5 (08:49):
For sure?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
She she she dropped some some some I don't even
know what you described the ether on us and then
bounce and and disrupted, then hired news cycle for the day. Girl,
all of it, it literally all of it. It was
one of those things. Before you got on the show,
I asked, Suro, where were you when Nafisa dropped the bomb?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So now where were you when the bomb was dropped?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I was at the crib, But I was trying to
like get things together because I knew we'd have a
crazy day today. You know, we weren't going to know
the outcome of the finals, so I'm trying to like
pull things together, just like that we have to do
in terms of packaging, packing, and just.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
You know, you're gonna be away. We're gonna be away
for a while. And all of.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
A sudden, like my phone is blowing up and people
are sending me stuff.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
And like before I heard the.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Full video, the full opening statement, I saw like some
of the quotes, and I was said, oh, okay, see
so when I got the full video, I said, oh,
oh okay, yes, yes, So let's talk about some of
the things that he said in this, in this, in
(10:06):
this quote, in this, in this opening soliloquy. One of
the things, a couple of things that I think everybody
thinks stood out is obviously the conversation with Kathy that
took place at unrival right, And this conversation taking place
that Unrivaled, which, mind you, Unrivaled happens January February, and
it's October, so already there are folks questioning, like, well,
(10:29):
why is this conversation coming out now in October instead
of having come out at the beginning of the year
when this was initially said. But we will get there
to that point in one second. But despite the timing,
we're talking about the officiating in which all of us
have had questions about the officiating. Kathy's response is only
(10:51):
losers complain about the officiating. Then she's talking about platforms.
Caitlin and Angel and them had better be lucky that
the w NBA even exists, or else they wouldn't have
the platform to make all this other money off the court.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Then we started talking about pay raises, and Kathy's taking
credit saying we need to be thinking, you're lucky stars
that I've got the media deal that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I got for y'all.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
On your knees, on your knees, Yes on your knees,
Thank you on your knee because that's really important.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Don't leave that part.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It should be your part out because I got a
whole I got a whole lot to say about that part.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yes, yes, on your on your knees. To be to
be thankful about the media deal that she got.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Girl that she did because she was on the court plan,
because she was the one that that she didn't carry
in this league for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It was hard she did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, Okay, you you you got that because of you.
Is everybody coming to watch you because everybody's seen you
play that's all right.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So okay, I'm going.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
To open this question up for both of you because
I don't even know where to begin. But of all
the things, and then and then there were also things
like the human element, which is something I've argued over
the last twenty four to forty eight hours that you
know he's talking about. Listen, my husband is a is
a commissioner of a league. I run a league, and
(12:18):
you don't even call and check on your players. You
gotta Laynadella don Like I don't even know if she
know I retired because I ain't heard.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
From her, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Like, so there's the there's the human element.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You mean what I'm saying, like she come.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
You got you got Angel mccawtrey coming out the Woolworth saying, listen,
if they find Fee, I pay it for you, like,
don't even worry about it, because that's that Figa Fia
is absolutely good. But I think the point is there
are retired players and everyone else that are saying Fee.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You speak, You're speaking.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
The truth, regardless of the outside criticism. So I'm gonna
start with you, Cheryl. Then I'll come with you Natalie.
Of all the things, that were said yesterday. What stood
out to you hosts.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, that means all of it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
But listen, here's when she started with this because I
pulled it up because I wanted to read it. When
Fees started with this, the real threat to her league
isn't money. It isn't ratings or even miss calls or
even physical play. It's the lack of accountability from the
league office.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, it started with Cheryl when she was like, I
am calling for a change of.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Leadership, and then Fee said I'm will stand with my
coach because I totally agree. There was so much that
Fee had to say that honestly, I took a step
back and was like, damn.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
As a former player, like I'm on the outside looking in,
but there are so many things that I have seen,
and not just this year, but I have seen, and
I'll be honest with you, I have questioned why is
this woman still in charge?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I have questioned that, But it wasn't until a player,
and this could be any player, but especially a player
of fees caliber, and everything that Fe's done starting unrival
all the things to finally say, you know what, I
don't care about a find. I don't care about getting suspended.
(14:29):
Enough is enough and it's time.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That we bring it out.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Somebody text me and said, well, why is she snitching?
I was like, I don't look at this as snitching.
I look at this as her finally saying, Kathy, let
me just remind you of the conversation we had at
Unrivaled and what your response was.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And Kathy didn't deny it.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Kathy didn't deny it. Like that's what fucked me up.
I was like, you ain't even gonna be like, nah,
I ain't say that.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
She said, famous characterized.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
She said, you mischaracterized my statement. What that means, Cheryl?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
What that means? Because you know what that sounded like
to me.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
That sounded like to me when people say, no, you
took that out of context, That's what that sounded like
to me.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Yes, you did that wrong one.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
He took that the wrong way. And I'm just in
my head like, what kind of conversation?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Because this is what I think.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I can't say this on CBS.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I can't say this on on on traditional TV, but
I can damn show say it on my shit.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I can see it on levels to this, Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
This sounds like fee. This sounds like fee and get Kathy.
They had a conversation where they were shooting the ship
and there was inside jokes and somebody felt mad comfortable
saying some shit she probably shouldn't have said because she
thought it was gonna stay between the two of them,
And really, will you think might be your friend ain't
really your mother friend?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And so now the shit that you thought was.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Going to stay between y'all has now been released to
the public. And I think it's a valid criticism to say, well,
if things were different, if maybe you didn't get injured,
or if maybe blah blah blah blah blah didn't happen,
would the same thing come out.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I'm not saying that it will or at won't.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm saying I think it's a valid criticism to ask,
because this conversation took place.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
In January, and that unrivaled and it's October.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
But regardless of what this sound like, y'all said this
because you usually say shit like this, because you typically
say shit like this and nobody say and nobody says anything.
And somebody finally said, nah, homie, I was never really
a homegirl. While you out here dancing at ha Haikki
in what everybody at All Star in Indiana at the
party you secretly back here talking about they need to
(16:46):
be grateful for you, you know, And I don't know we
you know, I'm sure we'll learn more, and I'm sure
when we're going to get access to Kathy and in
the coming days that more questions will be asked, But
you know, I don't. I would actually be shocked if
Kathy and the FISA had any kind of real relationship
(17:10):
where Kathy felt comfortable enough to say this. And I
only say that because she also talked about the fact
that she got injured, and Kathy has not checked on her.
She just talked about the human, you know, relations side
of this, and you had eded say what she said
you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
And then also when you recall that Neka is on
record saying.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
That the commissioner told her that she doesn't know business
or she doesn't understand business, so to me, and then
when you also combine that with the comments she made
on CNBC about the rivalry between Caitlin and Angel that
she then had to apologize for last year, which she
(17:49):
didn't do publicly, what she did was privately do it.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
And then they right the league just put out like
a statement.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
So I feel like I don't know that this was
about like her being comfortable, Like oh, like, I think
she just said some really outrageous things and some of it,
like the CNBC stuff, happened to be caught on the record,
but like it sounds like she says some audacious stuff,
you know, to the players and whether she realizes it,
doesn't know how it comes off.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
She does.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
And the smart business woman that I think the FISA
Collier is, she held that information for when it would
be most useful to her.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
That's what a shrewd business person does.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
So like I get that people asking questions right now
about the timing, Yes, but why would you do that
If you were trying to do negotiations and you're at
a stage yet where you don't know if they're going
to be combative, you don't know how they're going to go, then.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
You hold that.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
But if you get to a place where it's an
impasse and it's combative and you guys can't get where
you need to get, then now you pull out what
you got.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
See.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
I think my only counter to that, which is a
very fair point, but I think I only counter to
that would simply be maybe it was a month ago
when we were in Indy and they had to pay
what you owe shirts and they were talking about how
it was a disrespect and to what they were offering
for the CBA, and Blase spleet to me, that would
(19:16):
have also been a time to be like, all right,
since we can't negotiate in good faith, let me show
you what we got.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And so that's all I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Like, I'm not necessarily saying that there was an intent
behind it, Like I would have kept it till my
chest had I had not been injured.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I personally don't believe that.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I'm only suggesting that it is not an unfair criticism
to ask that question for sure, Like there's probably multiple
times she could have brought it out.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
And te I agree with you on that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I think some of it too had to do with
the whole situation with Cheryl. I don't think it was
so much about s getting hurt, but I think it
was her saying, listen, I got my coaches back, and
all of the shit that happened with her and the
fine and all of that, let me just let y'all
know who this woman really is. And Natalie, to your point,
(20:06):
I totally agree with you. I don't think Kathy ever thought, oh,
if he is my friend, I can have a conversation
with her, it's gonna stay here. Kathy was being exactly
who Kathy is. I'm gonna say what I want to say.
I'm gonna tell you how I feel, what I think.
And at the end of the day, what are you
(20:27):
really gonna do about it? Or what are y'all really
gonna do about it? Because to make to make the
statements that she made, listen, first of all, to say,
Caitlyn Clark should be thankful that she has the WNBA,
otherwise she wouldn't be making the sixteen million dollars she's making,
Like you're making that statement about.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Caitlyn, I'm like, of all people.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And then to say of all people, right, sorry, and
then to say here's the one that really got me. Right,
to say, y'all should not only be thankful, but you
should be on your knees thinking.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Me up, who are you talking to? Who? Who? On
whose knees?
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Wir ah ma'am, ma'am, Because I feel that though, because
there are players like you and others who quite literally
built this league from the ground up, who.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Quite literally did all of the work to even make
there be Even before there was a WNBA, there were
women ensuring that this league could even exist. All she
gotta do is turn on ESPN and go for thirty
for thirty. She can find it very easily to see
(21:49):
it for herself.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
But at the end of the day to be so
cocky and be so egotistical to make that statement like
you are the one. And I will say this, yes,
I do think that in the six years that Kathy
has been commissioner, there has been some business moves that
have been appreciated. But but Sis, you ain't didh you
(22:12):
ain't did shit to to be like you should be
on your knees.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What woman? If again, I I if.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
She said those things, those were that's that's that's that's
egregious for sure.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know, sorry for you.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I'm sorry Natalie, because I want to respond to Tea
to say, if she said those things, you had an
opportunity to to to say, no, that that's not how
that conversation went, or I didn't say that, or no
that never came out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That's not what you said. What you said was I
have the utmost respect for An, the feast of Callier,
and for all the players in the WNBA. Together, we
have all worked tirelessly to transform this league. My focus
remains on ensuring a bright future for the players in
the WNBA, including collect on how we continue to elevate
the game. So to me, that statement says, yeah, you
(23:07):
said it.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I'm only being I'm only being a fair journalist and
saying that I do not know your words exactly. So
I am not gonna say you said it exactly like that,
because I don't know exactly how you said it. But again,
you ain't denied whether it was paraphrase or not. You
ain't denied that you said it. So I'm gonna say
if you said it like that, because I don't know
how you said it. But you ain't denied that that
(23:31):
conversation happened at all, and you ain't denied.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
That those were the sentiments of whatever it was that
you did say.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
So again to tell me that the FEASTA mischaracterized You're
surprised and disappointed that she characterized your words like that.
I'm surprised, and, when not surprised, disappointed that you fixed
y'all mof to say it in the first place, because
what other context can somebody say.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That shit in and mean it any differently?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Agreed?
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And that's you know, when I keep hearing the we
need more contacts, I'm just like, I'm struggling to understand
the context that's going to make any of those remarks
acceptable and right. And also like here's the thing, because
you know, some people are like, well, how do we know?
And it's one, you know, one person's side versus another.
(24:18):
I'm like, this is this is how it goes. You know,
I'm sorry, Like y'all, I'm a lawyer, so I always
go back to like my legal ways. But this is
no different than a litigation. This is no different than
when I conducted investigations. It's always one person's word versus another. Yeah,
And what you have to do is you make a
credibility determination, right, and so it's do you believe fee
(24:42):
I do based on And she said that she said
hopefully she's built up enough essentially credibility. She said that
I'm paraphrasing her, but in her in that four minute statement,
she said that like basically that she's built up the
good will that you can believe her and trust her
on what she's saying, and I agree she has. The
FISA Collier is a very measured person, like I'm sure Terika,
(25:05):
like myself, you've had the chance to talk to her,
interview her like, she honestly.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Gives you very like PC corporate type answers to questions.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
For no FISA Collier to get up there and say
this and do this. She was prepared, she was calculated,
and I don't mean that in a negative way, right, Yes,
and she was measured, Okay, so she thought about this.
She did something unprecedented, Terika. You've been in the space
(25:36):
for a long time, right, You've seen all the posts
by all the different media members, journalists, whether it be
in woman's sports, whether it be outside of women's sports.
You mentioned all the players who are supporting her. We
even see NBA players supporting her, right, yes, Kyrie Irving others.
The thing about it is that everyone is like, we've
(25:58):
never seen this before. We've never seen this in sports before,
in any kind of league. So what she did was
so unprecedented. I don't think the FISA Collier is going
to do that just to make up something about someone.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
And if Yathy feels like her words and I.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Know this as someone who used to advise businesses and
help with reputation management when you said some inappropriate comments.
This is the kind of statement you get what Kathy released, right,
because you want to try to make something like, well,
it wasn't like that, fully, but there's also some truth
to it where you can't just flat out deny it.
(26:39):
You cannot just say I didn't say that, right, So fine, Kathy,
I want to hear your version of what happened, and
you have the opportunity to do that, so you can't
necessarily do it in a statement, But I'm sure that
you're going to be asked about it during these WNBA finals,
and I hope that she is prepared to give us
a statement, because if we're supposed to take her account
(27:00):
into consideration, that she has to give us her version
of how those conversations played out and what she said
and what is the mischaracteration that he did, so we
can understand girl. On top of that, Cheryl, they said
a I did it, girl, A I wrote that statement.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Would have been better than that chat g better than that.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Chat GPT would have told that statement up, Okay, we'd
have been like, damn ain't no, Kathy, ain't never spoke that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Will, and then to have players like a D. D.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Tierpoint come out and say, oh h yeah, I don't
even know if Kathy knows I'm retired because I haven't
heard from her. Haven't heard There have been so many players,
current and former, who.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Have had so many.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Things to say about this commissioner. I'll just leave it
at well.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
I will say this very last thing before we move
on to the next thing. There are some people in
the League office who I adore, honestly, like there are
some people in the League office who I think are
great people, great human beings. They work their tails off,
they do what they're asked to do, and I am
I don't want to characterize every single person and that
(28:19):
who works in the front office or who works at
the league level as someone who does this that in
the third because it's just it's just not true, right,
So I'm not gonna so I'm not gonna do that.
But overall, the decision makers, when they come to the
table and they have these conversations with the players Union
and the representatives on the union and on the Executive Committee,
(28:39):
y'all gonna have to find a way to save face
because these women already had us. Must have seed, a faith,
and your ability to negotiate, not as must have seed
and dwindled. Child. They ain't got no confidence in y'all.
They don't have no faith in y'all. They have already
told y'all how they feel, and they have now put
y'all on blasts to the point where you're really gonna
(29:01):
have to bring something like the leverage that these women
had that has doubled at this point, like it has
doubled at this point based off this move by Fee
and if for nothing else, And today we made a
statement supporting her.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Asia made a statement.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Last night after the game supporting her, like these are
the superstars of the superstars in the league today. There's
nothing that the WNBA can do at this point to
say face other than continue to actually negotiate in good
faith because they have literally lost their leverage. Now, the
(29:37):
next part of this conversation is rumor has it Kathy
might be stepping down after.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
The CBA negotiation? Do you or do you not believe it?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
My question, why does it have to be after CBA negotiation?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
That's the rumor?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, no, no, And I'm not being funny. I'm just
I'm curious, Like, I mean, I saw that too.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
There are several people who have reached out to the
league for comment, and of course the league has responded
with it's not true, it's cat, it's it's we don't
know where these things are coming from. But the initial
report that I saw came from Sports Business Journal, and
Sports Business Journal is a pretty reputable organization that you
(30:27):
usually are spot on with the things that they report,
so I would find it a bit difficult to think
that they would not be accurate in their reporting.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
But here's the here's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
As a as a former player, it's it's hard to
play in a league for a commissioner that you don't like,
that you don't trust, that you don't feel has the
interest of the players. I just don't know what it
(31:06):
looks like moving forward if she remains in that seat. Yeah,
because as a player, I don't trust you. Yeah, I
don't like you.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
There's nothing you can say to me that's going to
make me change my mind on how I feel about
you and what I see. The lack of care, the
lack of empathy, the lack of concern, right, like, just
based off of what Fee said yesterday and then seeing
(31:44):
Kathy's response, it's like you got it backwards. Yeah, you
work for the players. The players don't work for you.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Technically she worked for the owners, which is all all
that even worse, which makes it even worse.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
But to me, that makes it even worse.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Like and no, it does. I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
It makes it even worse because we've we have a
very recent example of ownership who found out the hard
way what it means when you think that you do
and and don't value the people who work for you,
when you don't value your team. Kelly found out real quick.
(32:32):
She found out real quick what happens and how that's
not a thing. And I think the other part of
that before we you know in this here is at
some point Adam Silver in the NBA is going to
have to like because there's a lot of puppeteering that's
happening that people don't really want to respect and talk about.
(32:53):
And I say it all the time. As much as
Kathy do do some crazy stuff, sometimes she gets a
lot of the grunt at times that really ain't her
and folks aren't really directing their anger at the right people.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Now, this situation was her, but as it relates to.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Some other things from CBA negotiations and why you know,
needles move and don't move. I'm gonna needed some people
to put some fire up under Adam Silver in the
NBA as well, because they have a lot of answers
that they need to provide to the American people too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, I think that that. I think that's an
(33:31):
excellent point. T you know, the issue is that Kathy
is presented though as the face of you know, the
w NBA, and so like, you know, if she wants that,
if she wants the heat to get on Silver, she
may need to do some leaking of her own to people,
you know, to get that out there, because she's essentially
(33:53):
accepted the responsibility of taking that heat and catching that
flag and being a puppet, if you will, if that's
the case, and so you know, it's like we can't
direct something at someone without knowing like, okay, you know,
do you know what I mean? So she'll she'll have
to think about how she wants to manage her own
because what however long she lasts the commissioner, I'm sure
(34:15):
she wants to have a life after this, and you know,
in a career after this, and you don't necessarily want
to go out leaving and then like your reputation being soiled.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
So she she needs to think about that for herself individually.
But the one thing I wanted to say when you
were talking about like the the whether or not you know,
the reporting from SBJ and Cheryl, you were saying, like,
why does it have to be after it's over? You know,
I think it's going to be really important for us
to like really see how much media attention this gets
(34:48):
as this collective bargaining agreement continues to be negotiated. Because
this is not just for the w NBA. This is
like other women's sports leagues are watching this. This is
a very big deal right now. And so the longer
it takes for them to reach an agreement, if it
goes to lock out, the more things that get revealed.
(35:08):
It could end up being that Kathy gets removed, someone
else gets involved in the negotiations, because the more attention
that's on it, the more scrutiny it gets, the more
public pressure it is, you could see things change. So
I believe the reporting of Sportsman's Journal, there are a
reputable publication. I do know that the league responded and
(35:31):
said it's not true. But regardless of whether it's true
or not true, someone else getting involved to help push
those negotiations along is definitely something that could could end
up happening.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I agree with that, well, you know, because that t
before we move on, because that Another thought that I
had was if if she's sitting down having these types
of conversations with Fee, how many other players a feast
Caliber has she also had similar or different conversations with
(36:07):
the Stewies, the Asias.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I would almost I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I don't know if I would put Angel and Caitlin
in there, right, but Hashi, I just I think.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
We I think Fee kind of opened up.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Something that's going to give more players the confidence to
speak up.
Speaker 7 (36:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, it's definitely going to be It's going to be
interesting here moving forward, and it will also be interesting
to see if any retaliation comes from it, because we've
seen people try to take on the league in the
past and have felt like they've been blacklisted or other
things like that. I definitely saw a tweet from Dereka Hanby,
who was someone who recently brought a lawsuit against the League,
(36:55):
and she was like, you know, maybe, as she was saying,
it's sarcastically, but the point was, you know, she's saying,
I don't know, maybe maybe they will blacklist her from brands,
maybe they'll tell her they don't want to work for
her anymore, things like that.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And so it will be interesting.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
To see how this scenario is treated versus others who
have taken stances against the league and league actions in
the past, and if there's any similarities or any differences.
But this one last thing I want to touch on
really quickly is while all this was going on, DA
List thought they would slick, they gonna slide that Chris
(37:33):
ko Klannon's dismissal up in here about five o'clock Eastern
time yesterday as if we wasn't going because see A,
we was too busy focused. We was too busy focused
on feet Kathy that folks ain't really realize that tweet
that went out talking about we dismissed. And you know
who is pettier than all of us, d Jene Carrington,
(37:53):
because Djane sat there and.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
Liked, retweeted, requoted Instagram repo every last ounce of a
tweet of a message of a Grant pic of a
flyer that talked about Chris Leavin Dallas and I yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
She did DJH today. You, my girl is hell.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
She did all of that.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You are petty as hell.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
When we look at all of the coaches that have
been dismissed, I don't think any of us will say
that there is a surprise. However, were you at all
surprised by this?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Natalie, Yes, and no.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
I know that probably doesn't make sense, but it was
like slightly surprised just because there had been some reporting,
uh you know, from Front Office Sports that their their
roles were safe his and also Tyler Marsha's in Chicago.
So so surprise, and that based on the latest reporting
(38:58):
it seemed like they weren't going to make that move.
But obviously, you know, organizations can decide to change their
mind moving a different direction, and so maybe that's all
that It is, so not surprised just based on how
the season went, you know, And like it's also a
little surprising too because it was just his first season,
(39:18):
and usually first year coaches not always, but they often
will get at least another year. And when you consider
how decimated Dallas was and everything that happened, you know,
so I would love and I hope it at some
point Kurt Miller will give us some insight on what
went into that decision.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
I'm sure it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
Informed by like one single thing, but you know, they're
making a lot of changes there in Dallas, They're rebuilding,
and so you know, maybe it's just better to cut
your ways now if you think another coach is the
right coach to execute on your vision and lead you
into the future.
Speaker 8 (39:53):
True, ma'am, Well, your question was, was I surprised, I
went Natalie, Yes and no.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I guess honestly, I kind of thought that he was
gonna at least good another year, just and my opinion
based off of won their relationship for friendship right and
the fact that it hadn't been done. I honestly thought
(40:34):
if they were gonna get rid of him, they.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Would have done it, you know, when the season was,
when their season was over.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So yeah, I think Kurt was like, oh shit, this
is the perfect time to do it, because all that
he is over there are happy.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
It ain't gonna be on me, so let me sneak
this shit in here real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I was thinking of same thing since I said, oh Christ, oh,
Kurt ain't shit, he trying to sleep this head?
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Why he did?
Speaker 3 (41:04):
He absolutely did, and and so in my mind, right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We saw what Seattle did, we saw what New York did,
which whatever, I'm still waiting on why that happened. But
so I was like, Okay, Chris will be good for
another season. I one of the agree with Natalie. I
just don't think any coach, I don't care who it is,
can completely turn a.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Team or an organization organization around in one year.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
When I see stuff like this, I immediately go to Spoon
in Chicago and it just pisses me off that they
did or the way they did. So when it happens
to another coach, I'm like, well, I can't feel bad
for you because they did it to Spoon, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I yeah, So I don't know, yes or no.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I wasn't surprised. I was just surprised at the fact
that it happened this league.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I wasn't sure what.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
I thought that if there was going to be a
coaching change, it would have happened a little earlier in
the year, so I'd be interested in knowing exactly what
changed for Dallas. Maybe it was Sandy being dismissed where
they say, hey, maybe we got an opportunity to try
to approach her with something like maybe they know something
that we don't know about her interest and what she
(42:21):
wants to do. So I think that could certainly be
a game changing moment for any general manager to.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Say, hey, you know, we cool, but Sandy Brown della
on the market.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So there's that. So that could also be a thing too.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
But good luck to him and all the other coaches
who were dismissed this year. I mean, I hope that
you guys find something somewhere else and can Maybe it's
a change of voice, change of sceneries that sometimes I
does wonders for players and coaches, right, So who knows.
I also think it'll be interesting to see what Chicago does.
I hope that they give Tyler another year, because I too,
(42:55):
am one who feels that one year is just simply
not enough to turn a team around. But I also
there's also something in me that feels like, if you're
gonna dismiss the coach, don't string them along, like do
it and just get get it done so you can
literally move on and not like take weeks and times
like that again unless my speculation is that they might
(43:18):
have an interest in Sandy.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So, yeah, Bati to that point.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
In Chicago, at some point you gotta stop just looking
at the coach and say the coach is the problem.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Oh, it's not. It wasn't really the coach to begin with.
It's the it's the front office.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So my point being, you brought Spoon in for a
year and I don't know, I guess you expected her
to perform miracles in one season and then you let
her go, and you know, Tyler comes and one year
for him, what are you gonna do with him?
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Like, at some point you gotta.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Look at the organization and look at everything else that's
going on. Why why do you think players like a
Sylvia foul and Elena Deldon?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Who else am I missing?
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Gabby Williams, Like, why do you think these players want
out of Chicago? They and it wasn't Spoon or Tyler
who coached them.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
That part.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
That part, that part, same thing, that part. So yeah, guys,
it's been quite a show. We've had a.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, despite everything that has happened over the week, there
will actually be some basketball play this weekend. The aces
uh defeated the Indiana Fever in a thrilling overtime Game five,
and they will be moving on to the w NBA Finals,
their third finals in four years, which is nuts to
be facing the Phoenix Mercury.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And I usually be like, hey, what's your prediction?
Speaker 4 (44:49):
So you got winning? But I don't want you to
ask me. So I ain't gonna ask you all because
I don't want you to ask.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Good, don't ask, don't ask because I ain't gonna tell you.
I ain't gonna tell you I do.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I want to just say one thing before we go,
just sending good positive vibes to Kelsey Mitchell, Like, just
absolutely hated to see her go down, and you know
it's always the what ifs, right, but hoping everything's okay
with her because for those who don't know, y'all been
sleeping on Kelsey Mitchell. Because Kelsey Mitchell has always been
(45:21):
the truth, the real deal always, So just hoping she's okay.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
She's always been a vibe, she's always been really good.
You have to wonder, I mean, call a spadas babe.
You have to wonder if that result is the same result,
if Kelsey is still in or even if you got
a Leah Boston not filed out. At the end of
the day, you have to ask it. But all credit
to Indiana. I mean I was asked on a different
(45:47):
show whether or not I feel like they met or
exceeded expectation, and I said, no, I don't think they
exceeded expectation.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I think they met it.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
At the beginning of this year, people said Indiana was
going to be a consider team that could make a
diff run.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
And fight the obstacles put in front of them.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
They continued to be a team that met the expectations.
So I'm not gonna short change them and say, oh,
y'all did better than people think, Like, no, you you
met the moment and that's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
That's what professionals do. So kudos.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Can we please? Sorry? Can we please start the season
next year? Would Odyssey Sims on a guarantee contract on
a guaranteed and not cut her contract? Please somewhere with
somebody for sure?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
And Arias needs to be on somebody's team too. I know,
like her season ended early, so we're not talking about
her as much. But tsaw me and you tweeted something
similar about Odyssey. But also, I mean just so so
many of those players who the Fever brought in this season.
They're gonna have a tough but some good decisions to
make for that team in terms of who they keep,
(46:49):
but a number of those players, because I keep seeing this,
Oh he's you know, the a sysim be celebrating because
you know they're playing a bunch of like backups and
relief like what like, no, to me, these players just
showed how.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Good they are for people.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
They they are good, so like the Aces get to
celebrate because that was a hard fought victory, and the
Indiana Fever like, to me, they were a perfect illustration
of all the talent that's in this league and players
and that we don't get to always see them, which
is why people were so surprised by a team like
(47:25):
the Valkyries, right because players who don't normally get the
opportunities on teams because this team is so limited teams
and this team is so this league is so talented,
we don't get to see them. So thankfully there's enough
expansion teams coming, Like, there's just no excuse for these
women not to have roster spots day one and to
(47:47):
have permanent rotation positions on those rosters. One hundred percent
agree they absolutely should. There are two new teams coming
into the league in twenty twenty six, so we should
definitely see it in More importantly than just having the spots.
It's the consistency and play. The more reps you get,
the more you get to play, the better you get
to be. And having the opportunity on a new team
(48:10):
gives you those reps, give you those opportunities. So congrats
to the Aces and congrats to the Mercury. I look
forward to seeing them. I know all of us at
some point will be in Las Vegas for at least
Game one and two or one or two. And yeah,
we will chat again later about you know, probably more
(48:33):
of the basketball stuff. But turn up Tuesday was just
too much for us to pass over. We had some
it wasn't messy Monday. Turnout Tuesday was just way too
much for us to pass up. So we have to
put the basketball on the back seat for another day.
But Natalie, thank you so much for taking some time
to join us today.
Speaker 5 (48:53):
Thank you, Natalie, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Well.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Of course, always a fun episode when we have fun guests,
and Natalie is such a fun guest.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I would love to be able to bring her back
on the show at another time.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Where we could have, you know, a more in depth
discussion about her and basketball and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But your people don't know how to add.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Your people don't know how to actual and that's why
we got to do episodes like these.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I ain't playing at w b A.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Listen, this one wasn't the commissioner when.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
I played You're right, you have them bal Lackerman was
was the ship You're right?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
I love now after man, you.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Can't you give me people?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Did you have Donna? Did you have Donna two? You
had Donna two?
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Right? I had?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
I had Donna for a few years, but it was
you know my I claimed bow when was the beginning?
Speaker 8 (50:01):
That was?
Speaker 4 (50:02):
Yes, yes, I love that. And she was the commissioner.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
You could have gone on forever.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
It could have because we could have got into a
bunch of stuff. Yeah yeah, but uh, we gonna cut
it short. We gonna cut it short. But no, it's
been it's been fun. Always have a great time. And
now before we go in head on out, we need
you to level us on up what you got for
us today?
Speaker 1 (50:28):
And I'm gonna do that because I got a good one.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
You know. It's so funny. When Nat came on and
I was talking about her hair.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Remember before we started recording, she was like, girl, people
just be coming for me, and you know, because they
come for me, they come for you.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
And so I found this quote.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I thought it was really interesting, okay, and it says
God didn't annoint you for approval, He anointed you for impact.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I love, love love that and think that I needed
Yeah today, Yeah, they ain't got to approve Nope, because
I am here because that man put his hands on
me and said, I'm anointing you because you are going
to be an impact.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And that's what I try to do every single day.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
One hundred.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Everybody ain't gotta like you. You ain't gonna be everybody's
cup of tea. I think I saw a hat the
other day when I was in DC that said I'm
not everybody's tastes or something along the lines of I'm
not everybody's tastes and I'm just.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Like, period, chaul, ain't everybody's taste. So I love that.
Speaker 4 (51:40):
Well, guys, thank you guys so much for tuning in
and kicking it with us and listening to this episode
of Levels to This. Let me also just say that
the responses that we got from last week's episode with
Kevin on with Kevin Stage was the best. He is
(52:00):
now officially a certified WNBA person now because everybody did
not believe that he was a real WNBA fan and
now they do. So we appreciate being able to expose
that to y'all. But just continue to keep listening and
keep locking in with us. Remember that this is not
just our show. This is our show and we want
(52:21):
to hear from you, So please shoot us an email
at Levels to This podcast at gmail dot com, follow
us on Instagram at lttpod, and just continue to continue
to show us love the way that you guys have
been doing. But until next time, keep your mentals ground
level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Please listen to Levels to This on America's number one
podcast network, iHeart, open your free iHeart app and search
Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby
and start listening
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, everybody, what's going on in your girl? Trika Foster Brassby.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Y'all?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
All is your girls?
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Cheryl swoops Hey, and this is the levels to this podcast.
This is the show where we talk about the levels
to the ship that women go through.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And Cheryl, I'm going through.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Some ship right now, are you? I am?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm not dismissing that, but I have to say this
because you know I'm gonna be petty.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I bet you you ain't going through as much shit
as Kathy. All Right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
The ship I'm going through is just my team is losing.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Going through She about to lose her job, and that's
a totally different different situation.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I was being petty, you know, I had to be petty.
I had.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So much has happened over the last year, I mean
year down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So much has happened over the last year.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It's been twenty four hours, though that's the same type
of year. It's been twenty four hours and We're definitely
gonna get way into this and a lot more when
we go to the next level with a special guest
that I'm very excited to have joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But girl, where were you?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I feel I feel like people be like, where were
you when such and such happened?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Years?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
So now too, ask where were you when the FISA
let the chopper spray?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So I'm so so.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I literally was sitting getting ready to sit in my
chair to get my petticure and my mandicure and my
nails done. Mm hmm girl, and I put my headphones in,
and you know, I'm like, let's fee, Let's see what
she has to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Hm hm hm.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I told my nail tech, I said hello, amen. Because
I needed my hands, I had to cover.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
My mouth.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Clap.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Girl, I don't even know what to say except about
damn time. That's what I'll say. That's what I'm gonna saying.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay. So, and then it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Took somebody liked Fee to be that one it did
it did to say enough is enough.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
To say enough is enough. I am.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I was doing exactly what I'm doing right now, which
is watching Tigers baseball, and I cut w NBA out
of my life for two hours two and a half
because I said, I cannot focus on WNBA when I
ain't watching postseason baseball and I'm trying to get my
Tigers to the next round, right, And I just kept seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
On my Twitter he said what Fee did?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
What?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And I'm like, damn, I don't want to look because
I'm trying to focus on the game.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But what the hell did he say? They got my Twitter?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
This girl.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
When I looked and read that ship, I said, oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
God, like, this is what I want to hear at
an exit interview. So there are so many things.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And at the same time that that was going on,
Kurt Miller thought he was gonna be slick as hell
and fire Chris go Clinton.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Think what nobody snuck that in?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He snuck that in around five o'clock where people was
driving home and writing they think pieces about.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What people said, still talking about peg and.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Then Kathy didn't released hersir So, girl, they didn't snuck
that shit in. I said, there all, y'all are Usually
the w NBA is messy on Monday, but y'all turned
up on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, this is turn up Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Oh girl.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And we hadn't even gotten to the game.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yet we ain't ain't got it again.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
All of this before the fever day.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
This was before the game five, an elimination game actually
takes place.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I could not deal with the w NBA on Tuesday.
It was too much.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I didn't know I needed that on my Tuesday, but
I did.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
We needed that. It was much needed. It was much needed.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And so.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
At this point, you know, I feel like so many
people have said so many different things and have gone
into so many different reasons as to what and what and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
How and how, But it ain't real until t and
Ryl get on it.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I know, sorry, because I'm stop you right now, like
I soa can hear your baseball game?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Can you really? Oh my god, I didn't even realize.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Oh girl, First of all, I hear it all. I
feel like we should keep this in the show your
faceball I fix so you know what, because you just
said what you were doing was doing it, and but
I was like, I could hear it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I can't hear damn you know I didn't.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
It didn't even dawn on me that I had not
put the television on mute. See it's all right, you know,
I need to mute that ship anyway, because the side
to biss me off to day, I don't need to
hear that game.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I don't need to hear that game no more. I
need to turn it off. Maybe maybe it's me. Maybe
I'm the problem.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Sure, maybe it's maybe because I'm watching, this is why
they acting like this.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Maybe it's me.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know if you're the problem, but but I
am that way. Sometimes It's like if I'm cheering for
specific team and they're doing really good until I start
watching and then they start losing and start playing bad.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I'm like, ahh is that me? Ladies?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Were you superstitious as a player?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah I was. I had to do I
had to do certain things before every game. I had
to eat my certain like my Snickers and Doctor Pepper
like I had to have that before every game I.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Did.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That is quite a combination, I know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But I also like I also got ready the same
way every game.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
That was Yeah, I guess it was.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You strike me.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I'm sorry, but it's way too much other stuff to
talk about. The me being superstitious.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I'm sorry, you right, but because you know, a Cathy
better be superstitious. Maybe she has her person on the floor.
Maybe she walked up under a load of a cat
cross her feet.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Or maybe or or maybe you.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Talking about how players should be grateful and thankful and
get on their knees and how you don't never mind,
I won't even get into all of that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
We're about to get into all of that right now.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
So at this point we're gonna go ahead and take
this thing to the next level. So, guys, there was
no way that Sheryl and I could have this conversation
(07:31):
without bringing in an additional voice to just add to
the shananigans that we about to do for the next
twenty minutes. And none better than my girl holding it
down at NBC Natalie Esquire and what's up?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Net Oh.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I'm so grateful for you guys to have me on
on this very busy day before we get head to
the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I know it was good.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Not listen, I have to say this because you know,
I'm I'm a hair girl, and T knows that me
and T we go talking about hair all the time.
And Sis, let me just tell you the hair is hairing. Yes, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I need that.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
I need that clip because let me go side. My
hair is.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, she pushed it up on it a week ago,
she had the bangs going on.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I said, who is this new girl? Excuse me? I
do have a.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Little bob looked like you ryl. The only thing is
I have some bangs.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
But I don't know. I missed my curly hair so quick.
But I might, I might. I might go back to
the bangs in the bar a little bit for the finals.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So Natalie, what exactly like was your hair standing up
on the back of your head when you heard that
four minute opening statement?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For sure?
Speaker 5 (08:49):
For sure?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
She she she dropped some some some I don't even
know what you described the ether on us and then
bounce and and disrupted, then hired news cycle for the day. Girl,
all of it, it literally all of it. It was
one of those things. Before you got on the show,
I asked, Suro, where were you when Nafisa dropped the bomb?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So now where were you when the bomb was dropped?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I was at the crib, But I was trying to
like get things together because I knew we'd have a
crazy day today. You know, we weren't going to know
the outcome of the finals, so I'm trying to like
pull things together, just like that we have to do
in terms of packaging, packing, and just.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
You know, you're gonna be away. We're gonna be away
for a while. And all of.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
A sudden, like my phone is blowing up and people
are sending me stuff.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
And like before I heard the.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Full video, the full opening statement, I saw like some
of the quotes, and I was said, oh, okay, see
so when I got the full video, I said, oh,
oh okay, yes, yes, So let's talk about some of
the things that he said in this, in this, in
(10:06):
this quote, in this, in this opening soliloquy. One of
the things, a couple of things that I think everybody
thinks stood out is obviously the conversation with Kathy that
took place at unrival right, And this conversation taking place
that Unrivaled, which, mind you, Unrivaled happens January February, and
it's October, so already there are folks questioning, like, well,
(10:29):
why is this conversation coming out now in October instead
of having come out at the beginning of the year
when this was initially said. But we will get there
to that point in one second. But despite the timing,
we're talking about the officiating in which all of us
have had questions about the officiating. Kathy's response is only
(10:51):
losers complain about the officiating. Then she's talking about platforms.
Caitlin and Angel and them had better be lucky that
the w NBA even exists, or else they wouldn't have
the platform to make all this other money off the court.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Then we started talking about pay raises, and Kathy's taking
credit saying we need to be thinking, you're lucky stars
that I've got the media deal that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I got for y'all.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
On your knees, on your knees, Yes on your knees,
Thank you on your knee because that's really important.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Don't leave that part.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
It should be your part out because I got a
whole I got a whole lot to say about that part.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yes, yes, on your on your knees. To be to
be thankful about the media deal that she got.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Girl that she did because she was on the court plan,
because she was the one that that she didn't carry
in this league for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It was hard she did.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, Okay, you you you got that because of you.
Is everybody coming to watch you because everybody's seen you
play that's all right.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So okay, I'm going.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
To open this question up for both of you because
I don't even know where to begin. But of all
the things, and then and then there were also things
like the human element, which is something I've argued over
the last twenty four to forty eight hours that you
know he's talking about. Listen, my husband is a is
a commissioner of a league. I run a league, and
(12:18):
you don't even call and check on your players. You
gotta Laynadella don Like I don't even know if she
know I retired because I ain't heard.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
From her, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Like, so there's the there's the human element.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You mean what I'm saying, like she come.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
You got you got Angel mccawtrey coming out the Woolworth saying, listen,
if they find Fee, I pay it for you, like,
don't even worry about it, because that's that Figa Fia
is absolutely good. But I think the point is there
are retired players and everyone else that are saying Fee.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You speak, You're speaking.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
The truth, regardless of the outside criticism. So I'm gonna
start with you, Cheryl. Then I'll come with you Natalie.
Of all the things, that were said yesterday. What stood
out to you hosts.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, that means all of it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
But listen, here's when she started with this because I
pulled it up because I wanted to read it. When
Fees started with this, the real threat to her league
isn't money. It isn't ratings or even miss calls or
even physical play. It's the lack of accountability from the
league office.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, it started with Cheryl when she was like, I
am calling for a change of.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Leadership, and then Fee said I'm will stand with my
coach because I totally agree. There was so much that
Fee had to say that honestly, I took a step
back and was like, damn.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
As a former player, like I'm on the outside looking in,
but there are so many things that I have seen,
and not just this year, but I have seen, and
I'll be honest with you, I have questioned why is
this woman still in charge?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I have questioned that, But it wasn't until a player,
and this could be any player, but especially a player
of fees caliber, and everything that Fe's done starting unrival
all the things to finally say, you know what, I
don't care about a find. I don't care about getting suspended.
(14:29):
Enough is enough and it's time.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That we bring it out.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Somebody text me and said, well, why is she snitching?
I was like, I don't look at this as snitching.
I look at this as her finally saying, Kathy, let
me just remind you of the conversation we had at
Unrivaled and what your response was.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And Kathy didn't deny it.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Kathy didn't deny it. Like that's what fucked me up.
I was like, you ain't even gonna be like, nah,
I ain't say that.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
She said, famous characterized.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
She said, you mischaracterized my statement. What that means, Cheryl?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
What that means? Because you know what that sounded like
to me.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
That sounded like to me when people say, no, you
took that out of context, That's what that sounded like
to me.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Yes, you did that wrong one.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
He took that the wrong way. And I'm just in
my head like, what kind of conversation?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Because this is what I think.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I can't say this on CBS.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I can't say this on on on traditional TV, but
I can damn show say it on my shit.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I can see it on levels to this, Okay.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
This sounds like fee. This sounds like fee and get Kathy.
They had a conversation where they were shooting the ship
and there was inside jokes and somebody felt mad comfortable
saying some shit she probably shouldn't have said because she
thought it was gonna stay between the two of them,
And really, will you think might be your friend ain't
really your mother friend?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And so now the shit that you thought was.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Going to stay between y'all has now been released to
the public. And I think it's a valid criticism to say, well,
if things were different, if maybe you didn't get injured,
or if maybe blah blah blah blah blah didn't happen,
would the same thing come out.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I'm not saying that it will or at won't.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm saying I think it's a valid criticism to ask,
because this conversation took place.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
In January, and that unrivaled and it's October.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
But regardless of what this sound like, y'all said this
because you usually say shit like this, because you typically
say shit like this and nobody say and nobody says anything.
And somebody finally said, nah, homie, I was never really
a homegirl. While you out here dancing at ha Haikki
in what everybody at All Star in Indiana at the
party you secretly back here talking about they need to
(16:46):
be grateful for you, you know, And I don't know we
you know, I'm sure we'll learn more, and I'm sure
when we're going to get access to Kathy and in
the coming days that more questions will be asked, But
you know, I don't. I would actually be shocked if
Kathy and the FISA had any kind of real relationship
(17:10):
where Kathy felt comfortable enough to say this. And I
only say that because she also talked about the fact
that she got injured, and Kathy has not checked on her.
She just talked about the human, you know, relations side
of this, and you had eded say what she said
you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
And then also when you recall that Neka is on
record saying.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
That the commissioner told her that she doesn't know business
or she doesn't understand business, so to me, and then
when you also combine that with the comments she made
on CNBC about the rivalry between Caitlin and Angel that
she then had to apologize for last year, which she
(17:49):
didn't do publicly, what she did was privately do it.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
And then they right the league just put out like
a statement.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
So I feel like I don't know that this was
about like her being comfortable, Like oh, like, I think
she just said some really outrageous things and some of it,
like the CNBC stuff, happened to be caught on the record,
but like it sounds like she says some audacious stuff,
you know, to the players and whether she realizes it,
doesn't know how it comes off.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
She does.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
And the smart business woman that I think the FISA
Collier is, she held that information for when it would
be most useful to her.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
That's what a shrewd business person does.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
So like I get that people asking questions right now
about the timing, Yes, but why would you do that
If you were trying to do negotiations and you're at
a stage yet where you don't know if they're going
to be combative, you don't know how they're going to go, then.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
You hold that.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
But if you get to a place where it's an
impasse and it's combative and you guys can't get where
you need to get, then now you pull out what
you got.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
See.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
I think my only counter to that, which is a
very fair point, but I think I only counter to
that would simply be maybe it was a month ago
when we were in Indy and they had to pay
what you owe shirts and they were talking about how
it was a disrespect and to what they were offering
for the CBA, and Blase spleet to me, that would
(19:16):
have also been a time to be like, all right,
since we can't negotiate in good faith, let me show
you what we got.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And so that's all I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Like, I'm not necessarily saying that there was an intent
behind it, Like I would have kept it till my
chest had I had not been injured.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I personally don't believe that.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
I'm only suggesting that it is not an unfair criticism
to ask that question for sure, Like there's probably multiple
times she could have brought it out.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
And te I agree with you on that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I think some of it too had to do with
the whole situation with Cheryl. I don't think it was
so much about s getting hurt, but I think it
was her saying, listen, I got my coaches back, and
all of the shit that happened with her and the
fine and all of that, let me just let y'all
know who this woman really is. And Natalie, to your point,
(20:06):
I totally agree with you. I don't think Kathy ever thought, oh,
if he is my friend, I can have a conversation
with her, it's gonna stay here. Kathy was being exactly
who Kathy is. I'm gonna say what I want to say.
I'm gonna tell you how I feel, what I think.
And at the end of the day, what are you
(20:27):
really gonna do about it? Or what are y'all really
gonna do about it? Because to make to make the
statements that she made, listen, first of all, to say,
Caitlyn Clark should be thankful that she has the WNBA,
otherwise she wouldn't be making the sixteen million dollars she's making,
Like you're making that statement about.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Caitlyn, I'm like, of all people.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And then to say of all people, right, sorry, and
then to say here's the one that really got me. Right,
to say, y'all should not only be thankful, but you
should be on your knees thinking.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Me up, who are you talking to? Who? Who? On
whose knees?
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Wir ah ma'am, ma'am, Because I feel that though, because
there are players like you and others who quite literally
built this league from the ground up, who.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Quite literally did all of the work to even make
there be Even before there was a WNBA, there were
women ensuring that this league could even exist. All she
gotta do is turn on ESPN and go for thirty
for thirty. She can find it very easily to see
(21:49):
it for herself.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
But at the end of the day to be so
cocky and be so egotistical to make that statement like
you are the one. And I will say this, yes,
I do think that in the six years that Kathy
has been commissioner, there has been some business moves that
have been appreciated. But but Sis, you ain't didh you
(22:12):
ain't did shit to to be like you should be
on your knees.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What woman? If again, I I if.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
She said those things, those were that's that's that's that's
egregious for sure.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know, sorry for you.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I'm sorry Natalie, because I want to respond to Tea
to say, if she said those things, you had an
opportunity to to to say, no, that that's not how
that conversation went, or I didn't say that, or no
that never came out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That's not what you said. What you said was I
have the utmost respect for An, the feast of Callier,
and for all the players in the WNBA. Together, we
have all worked tirelessly to transform this league. My focus
remains on ensuring a bright future for the players in
the WNBA, including collect on how we continue to elevate
the game. So to me, that statement says, yeah, you
(23:07):
said it.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I'm only being I'm only being a fair journalist and
saying that I do not know your words exactly. So
I am not gonna say you said it exactly like that,
because I don't know exactly how you said it. But again,
you ain't denied whether it was paraphrase or not. You
ain't denied that you said it. So I'm gonna say
if you said it like that, because I don't know
how you said it. But you ain't denied that that
(23:31):
conversation happened at all, and you ain't denied.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
That those were the sentiments of whatever it was that
you did say.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
So again to tell me that the FEASTA mischaracterized You're
surprised and disappointed that she characterized your words like that.
I'm surprised, and, when not surprised, disappointed that you fixed
y'all mof to say it in the first place, because
what other context can somebody say.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That shit in and mean it any differently?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Agreed?
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And that's you know, when I keep hearing the we
need more contacts, I'm just like, I'm struggling to understand
the context that's going to make any of those remarks
acceptable and right. And also like here's the thing, because
you know, some people are like, well, how do we know?
And it's one, you know, one person's side versus another.
(24:18):
I'm like, this is this is how it goes. You know,
I'm sorry, Like y'all, I'm a lawyer, so I always
go back to like my legal ways. But this is
no different than a litigation. This is no different than
when I conducted investigations. It's always one person's word versus another. Yeah,
And what you have to do is you make a
credibility determination, right, and so it's do you believe fee
(24:42):
I do based on And she said that she said
hopefully she's built up enough essentially credibility. She said that
I'm paraphrasing her, but in her in that four minute statement,
she said that like basically that she's built up the
good will that you can believe her and trust her
on what she's saying, and I agree she has. The
FISA Collier is a very measured person, like I'm sure Terika,
(25:05):
like myself, you've had the chance to talk to her,
interview her like, she honestly.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Gives you very like PC corporate type answers to questions.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
For no FISA Collier to get up there and say
this and do this. She was prepared, she was calculated,
and I don't mean that in a negative way, right, Yes,
and she was measured, Okay, so she thought about this.
She did something unprecedented, Terika. You've been in the space
(25:36):
for a long time, right, You've seen all the posts
by all the different media members, journalists, whether it be
in woman's sports, whether it be outside of women's sports.
You mentioned all the players who are supporting her. We
even see NBA players supporting her, right, yes, Kyrie Irving others.
The thing about it is that everyone is like, we've
(25:58):
never seen this before. We've never seen this in sports before,
in any kind of league. So what she did was
so unprecedented. I don't think the FISA Collier is going
to do that just to make up something about someone.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
And if Yathy feels like her words and I.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Know this as someone who used to advise businesses and
help with reputation management when you said some inappropriate comments.
This is the kind of statement you get what Kathy released, right,
because you want to try to make something like, well,
it wasn't like that, fully, but there's also some truth
to it where you can't just flat out deny it.
(26:39):
You cannot just say I didn't say that, right, So fine, Kathy,
I want to hear your version of what happened, and
you have the opportunity to do that, so you can't
necessarily do it in a statement, But I'm sure that
you're going to be asked about it during these WNBA finals,
and I hope that she is prepared to give us
a statement, because if we're supposed to take her account
(27:00):
into consideration, that she has to give us her version
of how those conversations played out and what she said
and what is the mischaracteration that he did, so we
can understand girl. On top of that, Cheryl, they said
a I did it, girl, A I wrote that statement.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Would have been better than that chat g better than that.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Chat GPT would have told that statement up, Okay, we'd
have been like, damn ain't no, Kathy, ain't never spoke that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Will, and then to have players like a D. D.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Tierpoint come out and say, oh h yeah, I don't
even know if Kathy knows I'm retired because I haven't
heard from her. Haven't heard There have been so many players,
current and former, who.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Have had so many.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Things to say about this commissioner. I'll just leave it
at well.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
I will say this very last thing before we move
on to the next thing. There are some people in
the League office who I adore, honestly, like there are
some people in the League office who I think are
great people, great human beings. They work their tails off,
they do what they're asked to do, and I am
I don't want to characterize every single person and that
(28:19):
who works in the front office or who works at
the league level as someone who does this that in
the third because it's just it's just not true, right,
So I'm not gonna so I'm not gonna do that.
But overall, the decision makers, when they come to the
table and they have these conversations with the players Union
and the representatives on the union and on the Executive Committee,
(28:39):
y'all gonna have to find a way to save face
because these women already had us. Must have seed, a faith,
and your ability to negotiate, not as must have seed
and dwindled. Child. They ain't got no confidence in y'all.
They don't have no faith in y'all. They have already
told y'all how they feel, and they have now put
y'all on blasts to the point where you're really gonna
(29:01):
have to bring something like the leverage that these women
had that has doubled at this point, like it has
doubled at this point based off this move by Fee
and if for nothing else, And today we made a
statement supporting her.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Asia made a statement.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Last night after the game supporting her, like these are
the superstars of the superstars in the league today. There's
nothing that the WNBA can do at this point to
say face other than continue to actually negotiate in good
faith because they have literally lost their leverage. Now, the
(29:37):
next part of this conversation is rumor has it Kathy
might be stepping down after.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
The CBA negotiation? Do you or do you not believe it?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
My question, why does it have to be after CBA negotiation?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
That's the rumor?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, no, no, And I'm not being funny. I'm just
I'm curious, Like, I mean, I saw that too.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
There are several people who have reached out to the
league for comment, and of course the league has responded
with it's not true, it's cat, it's it's we don't
know where these things are coming from. But the initial
report that I saw came from Sports Business Journal, and
Sports Business Journal is a pretty reputable organization that you
(30:27):
usually are spot on with the things that they report,
so I would find it a bit difficult to think
that they would not be accurate in their reporting.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
But here's the here's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
As a as a former player, it's it's hard to
play in a league for a commissioner that you don't like,
that you don't trust, that you don't feel has the
interest of the players. I just don't know what it
(31:06):
looks like moving forward if she remains in that seat. Yeah,
because as a player, I don't trust you. Yeah, I
don't like you.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
There's nothing you can say to me that's going to
make me change my mind on how I feel about
you and what I see. The lack of care, the
lack of empathy, the lack of concern, right, like, just
based off of what Fee said yesterday and then seeing
(31:44):
Kathy's response, it's like you got it backwards. Yeah, you
work for the players. The players don't work for you.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Technically she worked for the owners, which is all all
that even worse, which makes it even worse.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
But to me, that makes it even worse.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Like and no, it does. I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
It makes it even worse because we've we have a
very recent example of ownership who found out the hard
way what it means when you think that you do
and and don't value the people who work for you,
when you don't value your team. Kelly found out real quick.
(32:32):
She found out real quick what happens and how that's
not a thing. And I think the other part of
that before we you know in this here is at
some point Adam Silver in the NBA is going to
have to like because there's a lot of puppeteering that's
happening that people don't really want to respect and talk about.
(32:53):
And I say it all the time. As much as
Kathy do do some crazy stuff, sometimes she gets a
lot of the grunt at times that really ain't her
and folks aren't really directing their anger at the right people.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Now, this situation was her, but as it relates to.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Some other things from CBA negotiations and why you know,
needles move and don't move. I'm gonna needed some people
to put some fire up under Adam Silver in the
NBA as well, because they have a lot of answers
that they need to provide to the American people too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, I think that that. I think that's an
(33:31):
excellent point. T you know, the issue is that Kathy
is presented though as the face of you know, the
w NBA, and so like, you know, if she wants that,
if she wants the heat to get on Silver, she
may need to do some leaking of her own to people,
you know, to get that out there, because she's essentially
(33:53):
accepted the responsibility of taking that heat and catching that
flag and being a puppet, if you will, if that's
the case, and so you know, it's like we can't
direct something at someone without knowing like, okay, you know,
do you know what I mean? So she'll she'll have
to think about how she wants to manage her own
because what however long she lasts the commissioner, I'm sure
(34:15):
she wants to have a life after this, and you know,
in a career after this, and you don't necessarily want
to go out leaving and then like your reputation being soiled.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
So she she needs to think about that for herself individually.
But the one thing I wanted to say when you
were talking about like the the whether or not you know,
the reporting from SBJ and Cheryl, you were saying, like,
why does it have to be after it's over? You know,
I think it's going to be really important for us
to like really see how much media attention this gets
(34:48):
as this collective bargaining agreement continues to be negotiated. Because
this is not just for the w NBA. This is
like other women's sports leagues are watching this. This is
a very big deal right now. And so the longer
it takes for them to reach an agreement, if it
goes to lock out, the more things that get revealed.
(35:08):
It could end up being that Kathy gets removed, someone
else gets involved in the negotiations, because the more attention
that's on it, the more scrutiny it gets, the more
public pressure it is, you could see things change. So
I believe the reporting of Sportsman's Journal, there are a
reputable publication. I do know that the league responded and
(35:31):
said it's not true. But regardless of whether it's true
or not true, someone else getting involved to help push
those negotiations along is definitely something that could could end
up happening.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I agree with that, well, you know, because that t
before we move on, because that Another thought that I
had was if if she's sitting down having these types
of conversations with Fee, how many other players a feast
Caliber has she also had similar or different conversations with
(36:07):
the Stewies, the Asias.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I would almost I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I don't know if I would put Angel and Caitlin
in there, right, but Hashi, I just I think.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
We I think Fee kind of opened up.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Something that's going to give more players the confidence to
speak up.
Speaker 7 (36:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, it's definitely going to be It's going to be
interesting here moving forward, and it will also be interesting
to see if any retaliation comes from it, because we've
seen people try to take on the league in the
past and have felt like they've been blacklisted or other
things like that. I definitely saw a tweet from Dereka Hanby,
who was someone who recently brought a lawsuit against the League,
(36:55):
and she was like, you know, maybe, as she was saying,
it's sarcastically, but the point was, you know, she's saying,
I don't know, maybe maybe they will blacklist her from brands,
maybe they'll tell her they don't want to work for
her anymore, things like that.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And so it will be interesting.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
To see how this scenario is treated versus others who
have taken stances against the league and league actions in
the past, and if there's any similarities or any differences.
But this one last thing I want to touch on
really quickly is while all this was going on, DA
List thought they would slick, they gonna slide that Chris
(37:33):
ko Klannon's dismissal up in here about five o'clock Eastern
time yesterday as if we wasn't going because see A,
we was too busy focused. We was too busy focused
on feet Kathy that folks ain't really realize that tweet
that went out talking about we dismissed. And you know
who is pettier than all of us, d Jene Carrington,
(37:53):
because Djane sat there and.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
Liked, retweeted, requoted Instagram repo every last ounce of a
tweet of a message of a Grant pic of a
flyer that talked about Chris Leavin Dallas and I yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
She did DJH today. You, my girl is hell.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
She did all of that.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You are petty as hell.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
When we look at all of the coaches that have
been dismissed, I don't think any of us will say
that there is a surprise. However, were you at all
surprised by this?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Natalie, Yes, and no.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
I know that probably doesn't make sense, but it was
like slightly surprised just because there had been some reporting,
uh you know, from Front Office Sports that their their
roles were safe his and also Tyler Marsha's in Chicago.
So so surprise, and that based on the latest reporting
(38:58):
it seemed like they weren't going to make that move.
But obviously, you know, organizations can decide to change their
mind moving a different direction, and so maybe that's all
that It is, so not surprised just based on how
the season went, you know, And like it's also a
little surprising too because it was just his first season,
(39:18):
and usually first year coaches not always, but they often
will get at least another year. And when you consider
how decimated Dallas was and everything that happened, you know,
so I would love and I hope it at some
point Kurt Miller will give us some insight on what
went into that decision.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
I'm sure it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
Informed by like one single thing, but you know, they're
making a lot of changes there in Dallas, They're rebuilding,
and so you know, maybe it's just better to cut
your ways now if you think another coach is the
right coach to execute on your vision and lead you
into the future.
Speaker 8 (39:53):
True, ma'am, Well, your question was, was I surprised, I
went Natalie, Yes and no.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I guess honestly, I kind of thought that he was
gonna at least good another year, just and my opinion
based off of won their relationship for friendship right and
the fact that it hadn't been done. I honestly thought
(40:34):
if they were gonna get rid of him, they.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Would have done it, you know, when the season was,
when their season was over.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So yeah, I think Kurt was like, oh shit, this
is the perfect time to do it, because all that
he is over there are happy.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
It ain't gonna be on me, so let me sneak
this shit in here real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I was thinking of same thing since I said, oh Christ, oh,
Kurt ain't shit, he trying to sleep this head?
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Why he did?
Speaker 3 (41:04):
He absolutely did, and and so in my mind, right.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We saw what Seattle did, we saw what New York did,
which whatever, I'm still waiting on why that happened. But
so I was like, Okay, Chris will be good for
another season. I one of the agree with Natalie. I
just don't think any coach, I don't care who it is,
can completely turn a.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Team or an organization organization around in one year.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
When I see stuff like this, I immediately go to Spoon
in Chicago and it just pisses me off that they
did or the way they did. So when it happens
to another coach, I'm like, well, I can't feel bad
for you because they did it to Spoon, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I yeah, So I don't know, yes or no.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I wasn't surprised. I was just surprised at the fact
that it happened this league.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I wasn't sure what.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
I thought that if there was going to be a
coaching change, it would have happened a little earlier in
the year, so I'd be interested in knowing exactly what
changed for Dallas. Maybe it was Sandy being dismissed where
they say, hey, maybe we got an opportunity to try
to approach her with something like maybe they know something
that we don't know about her interest and what she
(42:21):
wants to do. So I think that could certainly be
a game changing moment for any general manager to.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Say, hey, you know, we cool, but Sandy Brown della
on the market.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So there's that. So that could also be a thing too.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
But good luck to him and all the other coaches
who were dismissed this year. I mean, I hope that
you guys find something somewhere else and can Maybe it's
a change of voice, change of sceneries that sometimes I
does wonders for players and coaches, right, So who knows.
I also think it'll be interesting to see what Chicago does.
I hope that they give Tyler another year, because I too,
(42:55):
am one who feels that one year is just simply
not enough to turn a team around. But I also
there's also something in me that feels like, if you're
gonna dismiss the coach, don't string them along, like do
it and just get get it done so you can
literally move on and not like take weeks and times
like that again unless my speculation is that they might
(43:18):
have an interest in Sandy.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So, yeah, Bati to that point.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
In Chicago, at some point you gotta stop just looking
at the coach and say the coach is the problem.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Oh, it's not. It wasn't really the coach to begin with.
It's the it's the front office.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So my point being, you brought Spoon in for a
year and I don't know, I guess you expected her
to perform miracles in one season and then you let
her go, and you know, Tyler comes and one year
for him, what are you gonna do with him?
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Like, at some point you gotta.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Look at the organization and look at everything else that's
going on. Why why do you think players like a
Sylvia foul and Elena Deldon?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Who else am I missing?
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Gabby Williams, Like, why do you think these players want
out of Chicago? They and it wasn't Spoon or Tyler
who coached them.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
That part.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
That part, that part, same thing, that part. So yeah, guys,
it's been quite a show. We've had a.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, despite everything that has happened over the week, there
will actually be some basketball play this weekend. The aces
uh defeated the Indiana Fever in a thrilling overtime Game five,
and they will be moving on to the w NBA Finals,
their third finals in four years, which is nuts to
be facing the Phoenix Mercury.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And I usually be like, hey, what's your prediction?
Speaker 4 (44:49):
So you got winning? But I don't want you to
ask me. So I ain't gonna ask you all because
I don't want you to ask.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Good, don't ask, don't ask because I ain't gonna tell you.
I ain't gonna tell you I do.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I want to just say one thing before we go,
just sending good positive vibes to Kelsey Mitchell, Like, just
absolutely hated to see her go down, and you know
it's always the what ifs, right, but hoping everything's okay
with her because for those who don't know, y'all been
sleeping on Kelsey Mitchell. Because Kelsey Mitchell has always been
(45:21):
the truth, the real deal always, So just hoping she's okay.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
She's always been a vibe, she's always been really good.
You have to wonder, I mean, call a spadas babe.
You have to wonder if that result is the same result,
if Kelsey is still in or even if you got
a Leah Boston not filed out. At the end of
the day, you have to ask it. But all credit
to Indiana. I mean I was asked on a different
(45:47):
show whether or not I feel like they met or
exceeded expectation, and I said, no, I don't think they
exceeded expectation.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I think they met it.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
At the beginning of this year, people said Indiana was
going to be a consider team that could make a
diff run.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
And fight the obstacles put in front of them.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
They continued to be a team that met the expectations.
So I'm not gonna short change them and say, oh,
y'all did better than people think, Like, no, you you
met the moment and that's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
That's what professionals do. So kudos.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Can we please? Sorry? Can we please start the season
next year? Would Odyssey Sims on a guarantee contract on
a guaranteed and not cut her contract? Please somewhere with
somebody for sure?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
And Arias needs to be on somebody's team too. I know,
like her season ended early, so we're not talking about
her as much. But tsaw me and you tweeted something
similar about Odyssey. But also, I mean just so so
many of those players who the Fever brought in this season.
They're gonna have a tough but some good decisions to
make for that team in terms of who they keep,
(46:49):
but a number of those players, because I keep seeing this,
Oh he's you know, the a sysim be celebrating because
you know they're playing a bunch of like backups and
relief like what like, no, to me, these players just
showed how.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Good they are for people.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
They they are good, so like the Aces get to
celebrate because that was a hard fought victory, and the
Indiana Fever like, to me, they were a perfect illustration
of all the talent that's in this league and players
and that we don't get to always see them, which
is why people were so surprised by a team like
(47:25):
the Valkyries, right because players who don't normally get the
opportunities on teams because this team is so limited teams
and this team is so this league is so talented,
we don't get to see them. So thankfully there's enough
expansion teams coming, Like, there's just no excuse for these
women not to have roster spots day one and to
(47:47):
have permanent rotation positions on those rosters. One hundred percent
agree they absolutely should. There are two new teams coming
into the league in twenty twenty six, so we should
definitely see it in More importantly than just having the spots.
It's the consistency and play. The more reps you get,
the more you get to play, the better you get
to be. And having the opportunity on a new team
(48:10):
gives you those reps, give you those opportunities. So congrats
to the Aces and congrats to the Mercury. I look
forward to seeing them. I know all of us at
some point will be in Las Vegas for at least
Game one and two or one or two. And yeah,
we will chat again later about you know, probably more
(48:33):
of the basketball stuff. But turn up Tuesday was just
too much for us to pass over. We had some
it wasn't messy Monday. Turnout Tuesday was just way too
much for us to pass up. So we have to
put the basketball on the back seat for another day.
But Natalie, thank you so much for taking some time
to join us today.
Speaker 5 (48:53):
Thank you, Natalie, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Well.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Of course, always a fun episode when we have fun guests,
and Natalie is such a fun guest.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
I would love to be able to bring her back
on the show at another time.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Where we could have, you know, a more in depth
discussion about her and basketball and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But your people don't know how to add.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Your people don't know how to actual and that's why
we got to do episodes like these.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I ain't playing at w b A.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Listen, this one wasn't the commissioner when.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
I played You're right, you have them bal Lackerman was
was the ship You're right?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
I love now after man, you.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Can't you give me people?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Did you have Donna? Did you have Donna two? You
had Donna two?
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Right? I had?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
I had Donna for a few years, but it was
you know my I claimed bow when was the beginning?
Speaker 8 (50:01):
That was?
Speaker 4 (50:02):
Yes, yes, I love that. And she was the commissioner.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
You could have gone on forever.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
It could have because we could have got into a
bunch of stuff. Yeah yeah, but uh, we gonna cut
it short. We gonna cut it short. But no, it's
been it's been fun. Always have a great time. And
now before we go in head on out, we need
you to level us on up what you got for
us today?
Speaker 1 (50:28):
And I'm gonna do that because I got a good one.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
You know. It's so funny. When Nat came on and
I was talking about her hair.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Remember before we started recording, she was like, girl, people
just be coming for me, and you know, because they
come for me, they come for you.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
And so I found this quote.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I thought it was really interesting, okay, and it says
God didn't annoint you for approval, He anointed you for impact.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I love, love love that and think that I needed
Yeah today, Yeah, they ain't got to approve Nope, because
I am here because that man put his hands on
me and said, I'm anointing you because you are going
to be an impact.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And that's what I try to do every single day.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
One hundred.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Everybody ain't gotta like you. You ain't gonna be everybody's
cup of tea. I think I saw a hat the
other day when I was in DC that said I'm
not everybody's tastes or something along the lines of I'm
not everybody's tastes and I'm just.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Like, period, chaul, ain't everybody's taste. So I love that.
Speaker 4 (51:40):
Well, guys, thank you guys so much for tuning in
and kicking it with us and listening to this episode
of Levels to This. Let me also just say that
the responses that we got from last week's episode with
Kevin on with Kevin Stage was the best. He is
(52:00):
now officially a certified WNBA person now because everybody did
not believe that he was a real WNBA fan and
now they do. So we appreciate being able to expose
that to y'all. But just continue to keep listening and
keep locking in with us. Remember that this is not
just our show. This is our show and we want
(52:21):
to hear from you, So please shoot us an email
at Levels to This podcast at gmail dot com, follow
us on Instagram at lttpod, and just continue to continue
to show us love the way that you guys have
been doing. But until next time, keep your mentals ground
level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Please listen to Levels to This on America's number one
podcast network, iHeart, open your free iHeart app and search
Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby
and start listening
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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