October 17, 2024 • 36 mins
On today’s episode of Levels to This, Sheryl and Tee discuss expectations for Black women. We hear about their experiences in the professional and athletic world and how Black women often have to work twice as hard with half as much. The two talk rookie of the year, Teresa Weatherspoon’s one season as coach and the under-representation of Black women in positions of power in the WNBA.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody, I'm Tarika Fosterter Brasby and I'm Cheryl Swoops
and this is the levels to this podcast. This is
a show where we are going to share that it's
levels to the ship that women go through. And I
know that we've got a great show lined up today.
But first, my girl, Cheryl, we got to check in.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
How are you? How are things going?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
What's good? Girl?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Life has been life in life has been life. And listen,
take that damn Detroit cap off of your head.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm in my I am in.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
My feelings because y'all gave the Astros a nice little
beaten you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Did see, Yeah, folks, For folks who don't know, at
the time of this recording, my Detroit Tigers are out
here doing the damn thing as sheryln her feelings.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And that's fine, it's cool. I'm mad at a week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We ain't been.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We have not been a winner in ten years, y'all
will let us have this?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Oh that's right, y'all haven't been but we okay, okay, okay,
all right, I'm gonna let you make it on that one.
Surel you know what, that's why, that's why folks throwing
you under the bus.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Now that is why you under the bus?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Now, well, please do tell because I've kind of taken
a couple of days off from social media, so I
don't know. I don't know what did I do?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
What did I do?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
What did I do?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So you're not sure why you're trending? Okay, well let
me feel you and everybody in on exactly why you're trending.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You're trending because.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm sorry. Can we just do a toast? Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Glass, definitely do a toast?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, grab a glass, cheers.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
What are we toasting to?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It's Friday, every it's the weekend, and we're toasting to
every having your name in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
There we go, that's the time.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Chairs, that's the toast. That's the toast because like that.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So you know, it's the end of the season, fans
and now people in the WBA are receiving their awards,
and so we know that Asia was the unanimous MVP.
We know that Nafisa Collier won the Physical Player of
the Year, Djne Carrington won Most Improved, Cheryl Reed got
Coach of the Year, Executive of the Year, and it
(02:34):
was just recently officially announced that Caitlyn Clark earned the
Rookie of the Year, So shout out to Kaitlin Clark
for winning Rookie of the Year. However, congrats to Kaitlin.
Why kent gratz to Caitlin much deserve. She received sixty
six of the sixty seven votes, So apparently, Sean, you
(02:54):
are the person who was of Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That gave Angel Reees.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Angel Reese is the other person who got the one vote,
So clearly it's your fault that she is not the
unanimous Rookie of the Year. You are such a hater
that you can't stand it that you decided to give
your vote, waste your vote on Angel Reaes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Now I'm wondering who's gonna tell to people who.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
There's a lot in this.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
First of all, congratulations to Caitlin, very well deserved. Had
a hell of a rookie year, doing things that just
hasn't been done by a rookie before. But I hate
to disappoint the people because I don't get a vote.
Y'all cannot I'm like, because it's funny, y'all cannot blame
(03:49):
this one on me. I don't get a vote. I've
never had a vote in.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Any of the awards. But I too, like everyone else,
would love to know who.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That person is.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Maybe it's the same person that gave Asia Wilson a
fourth place vote last year.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I don't know. I'm gonna take a drink. I'm gonna
take a drink. I'm gonna take a drink. I'm gonna
just take a sexon. It's funny to me because last
year folks told folks to just get over it, just
get out of the wrong place, fourth place, just get yeah,
just get over it. But this year all hell has
(04:30):
broken loose because folks want to know who gave Angel
the vote. And my thing is, so what if Angel
got the vote. It's not like she wasn't deserving of
a vote, absolutely, I mean, she did have a hell
of a rookie season. So why I'm surprised she only
got one vote.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, I am a voter. I voted for Katelyn Clark.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I thought after the Olympic break she separated herself from
the pack. But up until that time, I was neck
and neck. I was like, this very well could be Angel,
This could be Kaitlin. Wait, it's Angel again. I was
going back and forth, so I don't understand why folks
is mad. Can't nobody explain why Asia got a fourth
place vote?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Like, you can't. You can't justify that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
But you're off the hook because you just said you
voted for Caitlyn, so we can mark you all did. Well,
let's just keep Let's keep going down the line and
figure out who that person is. So let me also
say this, whoever that person is that gave Angel a vote,
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
She's been very deserving of a vote, right, I like you.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
The beginning of the season was like, could be either
it could be Angel, could be Caitlyn. And I'll also
say this, if Rakia Jackson would have gotten more playing
time in the beginning of the season, Rakia Jackson would
be in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
But I digress. Anyway, I thought at one point I did.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I was like, Angel Reese has my Rookie of the
Year vote because she set the double double record and
or a rookie is impressive. And I thought she was
playing very well hat Chicago looking really good at one point, right,
or at least good, not really but good.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I agree with you. After the Olympic break, Caitlin Clark
got some rest, got some food, got some vacation, got
some own.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
No, I ain't all up in her business like that.
She got some whatever it was, and she came.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Back and completely separated herself from all other rookies in
the league.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
So congratulations to Caitlin. Y'all can't get mad at me.
I don't get vote, So it wasn't me.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It wasn't Cheryl, So sorry, narrative. Stop trending Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you're trending Cheryl on Twitter, it better be because
you listen and love our podcast, not because go stop it,
go you stop it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But I'm glad that you brought.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Up Chicago because I think it's time for us to
take it to the next level.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
All right.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So on September twenty six, the Chicago Sky decided to
part ways with head coach Teresa Weatherspoon after just one season.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
They even released a statement that said.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
After careful consideration, we have decided it's in the best
interest of the organization to part ways with head coach
Teresa Weatherspoon. We are deeply appreciative of coach t Spoon's
contributions to the Chicago Sky and the energy and passion
she brought to the head coaching role.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Apparently, folks was.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Not aware that this was going to go down. Angel
Reese the star of the team, and usually these types
of decisions don't happen without the star player on your
team knowing about it. But the star of the team
tweeted that she was heartbroken other people in the organization.
Kennedy Carter had comments there were folks that were just confused,
and then of course us on the outside are like,
(08:00):
or is this the same Are y'all watching the same
teaspoon or looking at the same organization that I'm looking at,
because I don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't understand how this happens.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Now, I know you have a relationship with food, and
so I know you were also somebody that was like
pissed off that this happened. Pissed off as an understatement, tee, don't.
I don't even know where to begin with this even now,
just hearing you say those words and what you said,
(08:34):
like like this shit makes me emotional for her, It
makes me angry, It makes me sad, it makes me frustrated,
it pisses me off.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I guess my thing like food and I had a
conversation and I'm not going to share stuff she told
me because it's not my story to tell, but she
did give me permission to talk about certain things. Here
is what I will say if, and this is if,
if you hired her under.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
The conditions of if you don't make the playoffs or
if you don't win a championship, we're going to fire
you right like I'm I'm hoping that's not why you
hired her, because how ignorant is that they were what
two I don't know one two games out of that
eighth playoff spot.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And when you when you think about spot, they did
they did right. But here's my thing, when you think
about what all she had to deal with, let's just
let's just start from the beginning. She's a new head coach.
She pretty much has a whole new damn team. She's
a new team. You drafted to rookie, you brought back
(09:54):
Kennedy Carter who hadn't been in the league in a while.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
And you still almost made the playoffs. You trade a
Marina Maybrey right before the Olympic break. Izzy has been injured,
not healthy all season. Elizabeth Williams goes out with a
season ending injury Camilla Cardoso the beginning of the year
misses I don't know how many games because she has
(10:19):
a shoulder injury. The end of the year, Angel gets hurt,
she breaks her wrist. Kennedy Carter misses some games because
she has I guess COVID or whatever they called it.
Help me understand what more could she do with what
she had to work with?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Rights?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
And on top of that, how did y'all help her worked? Like,
how did y'all help her be successful? Because your front
office is shitty? So what did y'all do to help
her be successful? Horrible? It's horrible, Like that's what I
don't understand, Like, y'all not only did it put her
(10:59):
in a position to win, but she's still found a
way to be damn mere in the playoffs and still
found some level of success despite all of the shit
that she had stacked against her.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, and this is how you were Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
No, she she walked into a mess yep, she walked
into and the entire and it's not the first time, right,
Like it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's not the first time.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And it leads me, it literally leads me to this
larger because we say it all the time that like
sports is a microcosm of real life society, and it
leads me to this larger conversation of.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Why do black women always have to deal with this
kind of shit?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Like why are we always expected to make something out
of nothing? Why do we always have to work twice
as hard to get half of what other people get?
And when we don't deliver on what that whatever unreasonable
expectation is, we're the ones that have to take a hit,
We're the ones that lose our jobs, or we're the
ones that don't get the promotion, we're the ones that
(12:06):
don't get seen, don't get recognized, whatever. Just recently, there
was a conversation on super Bird and Megan Rapinos podcast,
right and they were talking about a lot of the
racism and the things like that that has happened in
the WNBA, and it pissed me off to no end
because they were one hundred percent correct on what Sue
(12:27):
was one hundred percent correct on what she was saying.
But we black women have been saying this the entire
time and nobody was listening. So it's that thing that
is ever present, it's never gone away. And te spool
is just another example of unreasonable expectations that are put
(12:51):
on us that are not put on anyone else. I
ain't trying to say nobody else should lose their jobs,
because I ain't the one that's out here calling for
people's jobs. But Tricia Trammon and Dallas folks been wondering
what's going on down there. I ain't saying electrician should
lose her job. I'm just saying, why nobody calling for
her head? Christy sides about this year one day. I
(13:15):
don't see Christy. I don't see Christy losing her job.
I'm just a little concerned as to like how the
gold post just continues to move for black women. Listen,
I'm just over here because you are hitting the nail
on the head.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It is, and it doesn't matter what your profession is.
Black women are expected to work miracles with a lot less, right,
And when we don't, we're fired, we're let go, We're questioned,
(13:53):
we're not good enough.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I I'm there with you. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's a conversation that a lot of people don't want
to have, but it's a conversation that needs to be had.
And when you look at the WNBA as a whole,
from the beginning to from nineteen ninety seven when the
league started. Black women, for whatever reason, just haven't really
been given the same opportunities in the WNBA as their
(14:24):
white counterparts, whether that's a white female or a white male.
We just haven't been given that opportunity. And when we
are like there's a microscope on us where they're watching
every little thing we do and not allowing us to
be who we are. Right, Spoon one of the fiercest
(14:49):
competitors I've ever played against, one of the best people
I've ever known that I know.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And when you have.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
A rookie in Angel Reese who speaks up and says, damn,
I want to play for her and her seeing the
talent and Kennedy Carter to say, Kennedy Carter needs to be.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
In this league, I agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
There are not a lot of coaches in this league
that can coach a Kennedy Carter. But Spoon was that one.
And not only was she just another player that played
in the WNBA, She's.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
A freaking Hall of Famer. One season one.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You gave her one season one season, Like.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Please make that make sense. I don't see how any
coach can turn around a franchise in one season, but
certainly not under the circumstances that Spoon was under. It
just truly bothers me and baffles me because I don't
(15:58):
understand why the expectations for us are always different. I
recall reading an article from the Sports Business Journal that
came out a couple of years ago, maybe about two
or three years ago now, and they talked about how
when you look at players and player marketing in the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
To the point that you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
There were two hundred and twelve I believe, articles that
were written that season about the WNBA, and of the
two hundred and twelve articles that were written, black players
were only mentioned forty four times the leading players.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That were mentioned in that season.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And I believe this was it was the I'm saying
twenty twenty one, but it might have been twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It was the County the twenty fifth anniversary season.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So that was the season where it was two hundred
and twelve articles written. Black players were mentioned in those
articles forty four times. Now, help me do the math,
because there are one hundred and forty four players in
the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Eighty percent of the players in the WNBA are African
American or women of cubs.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You could only talk about forty four of them in
two hundred and twelve articles. And that's not even forty
four different players, such as forty four different mentions. So
probably the same player mentioned multiple times. I'd give you
maybe you know Asia Wilson, maybe probably a Jewel Lloyd
or you know, maybe you know, I don't know, Alissa
(17:21):
Thomas might have got a name in it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't know. I can't be sure.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
At that time, they probably were still ignoring Connecticut, so
it ain't no telling. But the point that I'm making
is is that it has never been fair as it
relates to race, and folks don't want to tackle race
because it makes them uncomfortable. But that's exactly the problem.
You need to be uncomfortable. You just need to be
uncomfortable in having this conversation. Yes, And I even know
(17:45):
from personal experience coming through this business. As I was
making my way through this industry, there were opportunities that
were presented that I would apply for and I would
not get those opportunities, but they would use me to
train the white man or the white girl that they
hired in my place. And I was mad confused, like
wait a minute, or you know this person could continually
(18:09):
be late, continually be late, continually be late. If I
show up five minutes late one time, it's a warning. Yeah,
how did I like? The goalpost keeps it keeps moving,
and so it gets me to a point where I
just always have to ask, like what what can we do?
Like at what point does it does the responsibility shift
(18:32):
from us needing to meet a specific expectations to folks
understanding the expectations they're setting is unrealistic. Chicago should have
known that there was no possible way that they were going.
And from my understanding, the person who released this was
also a black woman, right, so now we really playing
that game? Now we really playing that game? Right where
(18:54):
we're really playing that game? Now, like this a smoove
over better if she says it or if she t
because it won't look like we're the ones that's really
behind the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
So you know what, you're gonna take the black woman
and put her out in front and let her release
the statement because it's a black woman you're.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Firing, right, So you think that we can't see.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Through the bullshit, like we see what you're doing. But
I also want to God, this is such a deep
topic and conversation, but it's one that needs to be
had because I also want to go back to like
the whole Christine Brennan interview, not even interview, but her
(19:44):
questions for dj A Carrington right. And I know there
are a lot of people who are like, no, Christine,
she did nothing wrong. She said nothing wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Everything about that question and the follow up question was
wrong and it was the way you ask it. Yes,
Christine Brennan's been in the game for a very long time.
I don't know how much she's actually covered the WNBA
in it's twenty seven years. But okay, whatever, but you
(20:18):
you came at her. You came at her and basically
said you hit her in the eye, poked her in
the eye. I also heard someone on ESPN or CNN
or somewhere say you stabbed her in the eye.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I'm like, yes, see it in y like you stabbed
her in the eye. I'm like, no, she didn't. First
of all, Caitlyn herself said it was a basketball play.
This happens all the time. But you come at her like, oh, Djna,
can you tell us if you intentionally meant to hit
(20:55):
Caitlyn in the eye.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So I asked this question.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Did she go to Caitlyn and say, Caitlin, did you
purposely hit Djona in the I when she lost her contact?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I thank you, thank you? Did you because the question
is no, you did not right, No, of course you didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Of course you didn't. It's of course you did.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's stuff like it's stuff like that tea that as
a as a black woman, and I don't care what
profession even me as a as a former professional athlete,
like you know, when you're when you're playing and you're
at the top of your game, everybody loves you, everybody
wants you, and when you're done, like, I can't tell
(21:41):
you how many times I personally have tried. I've tried
and tried and tried to get on staff, not even
as a head coach, but as an assistant coach with
a WNBA team. Now, don't don't come at me and
say you don't have enough experience. I am a three
time MVP, a four time Olympic, a three excuse me,
(22:04):
a three time Olympic gold medalist, a four time WMA champion,
a three.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Time Defensive Player of the Year. But were gonna keep
going random credential, Cheryl, random shit chirl. Don't you know what.
I may not have the the the so called coaching experience,
but I have the experience. You know the game, you
know the game, you know the game.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But you but you will go yes, but but that's
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That that isn't good enough. Another example of this is
just last season, last season, how many black women head
coaches could we have had in the w NBA, But
instead the Phoenix Mercury hired Vanessa and I that part. Yeah,
there were coaches out there who won from college players
(22:52):
like you know, former players like yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
There are so many.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Different people, but instead you went with Vanessa and I Guard.
Now that franchise was already going through whatever they were
going through, because clearly they were dealing with the Britney
Griner situation, they were dealing with the Sky, the dig
and Smith situation. They already had enough on their plate.
And rumor has it that Nicki Blue, who essentially took
(23:17):
over after Vanessa was fired, was the person who had
the ear of the team any way. So my question
from the beginning was why who also was someone who
had more experience? Why was she not already considered, why
was she not your first go to It's just like
we have to continue again to work twice as hard
(23:38):
and not get half as much.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's not even talking.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
About those who have to worry about paid differential and
those who have to worry about recognition. I recall one
time sitting in a meeting with my former employer. I
was sitting in a meeting and I brought up a
really dope ass idea, and folks questioned my idea like
ten times times. They found every hole that could be
(24:02):
poked in that idea. A month later, we come back
to our monthly meeting and a coworker of mine he
mentions the exact same thing, but shifts maybe one.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Or two words.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I
could not contain myself. I quickly stood up in that
meeting and I said, hey, guys, I'm not even trying
to be funny, but for real, for real, I said
the same shit last month. So what's the difference between
last month and now? Like, what makes it different now?
Because he said it? Like, that's what makes it different
because he said it, because he did it. And so
the point is simply this, We're always ignored, but the
(24:39):
expectation never changes. I'm still expected to produce at the
same level in the same rate as my white male
and female counterparts.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And I get sometimes that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You know, as women, we have to always stick up
for each other and stick together, but there is definitely
a difference at time and the expectation even between white
women and black women, right, And it's we have to
acknowledge that. We have to because here's the thing. If
this was a white head coach, to say, the opportunity
(25:10):
to coach again is not at all the same as
it is with Spoon. We don't know if Spoon gonna
get an opportunity to coach again because the door is
not always reopened for us.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
No, and that's the problem. You're one hundred percent correct.
Just like back to the Nicki Blue situation, right, Niki
Blue was good enough to be the quote interim coach
and get you through the season and be there through
the Britney Grinder situation and tackle the Skylar Diggins questions
when she wasn't the one who was the head coach. Right,
(25:46):
She's good enough to get you through the season, but
she's not good enough to be your next head coach.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's the part.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And where's Nikki?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Now, don't know. I'm looked up because I was curious.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Right, we started in nineteen ninety seven and I was
fortunate enough.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
To be able to play quite a few years.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
But I looked this up because I was curious, and
it said of the black head coaches, twenty one have
been black men and twenty have been black women. Now,
mind you, this is since nineteen ninety seven, so this
is on Google so anybody can look it up. It
just said, in a league made up primarily of women
(26:31):
of color, just twenty one point five percent of WNBA
head coaches have been black women in the league's twenty
seven year history. You mean to tell me that we're
not good enough or we're not qualified enough to be
in charge as to coach a team as a as
(26:52):
a head coach. And you know what happens team when
a situation like Teaspoon happens. It puts a bad taste
in our mouth, like I see what happened to her,
And in my mind, I'm like, hey, y'all know, I
don't want to be the next one.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, but you was.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
But what it also does is that it makes you
feel as if that door will never be open for
someone else, like I don't want this to be And granted,
if it was a situation where she just truly did
not perform, and if it was a performance situation, that's
one thing, right And I say that to say, there's
(27:30):
head coach Tennisha Wright. Head coach tennische Wright was also
let go this past season from the Atlanta Dream. Head
coach tennich Wright was a black woman, and she had
three years to build in Atlanta, and unfortunately, even when
she was given some additional pieces, I think the addition
of an aerial powers, granted she has some injuries, but
(27:50):
an addition of an aerial powers Jordan Canada, like you
know the way Ryan Howard continues to dominate. Alisha Gray
truly came out of her shell this year. Felt like
you had the pieces to at least take your team
to the next level, the next level being the postseason,
maybe even get a first round win.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You had the pieces.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So no one's going to put up a fight about
the dismissal of Tanisha, right because I think most people
who know the sport, no, Well, since you were given
an opportunity, you didn't make good on that opportunity, and
so this happens, right, Yeah, But I do think that
Tanisha should get another job somewhere because I don't think
(28:32):
she's a bad head coach. Just maybe this wasn't wasn't
for her. I look at women like Vicki Johnson, she
was on her assistant coaching staff. She said, absolutely, get
another head coaching position. I don't feel like she shouldn't
be a head coach anywhere. We talked about Nicki Blu
and that's the thing. We can see the recycling of
coaches over and over, but do we continue to see
(28:53):
these additional chances given to us. And that's what is
disappoint When that door closes. Exactly when that door closes,
that door is closed, like that ship is. It's shut.
It's shut. And listen, when when you talk about performance,
I don't, I don't. I don't. I don't really give
(29:15):
a ship what their reason is. It was wrong, it
was wrong.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You cannot expect Spool to come in there her very
first season and really make the playoffs, win the championship whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I my mind is blown.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Like I saw that and I was like, oh, this
gotta be a different Teresa Weatherspoon because I know it ain't.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
The head coach of Chicago, There's no way.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I also.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Need the players to understand how much power they hold
in their voices and when shiit a right.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Y'all has y'all gotta speak up. Yep, that's all. That's
all I'm gonna say, because I'm not sure a lot
of the players under truly understand the value that they
hold when they speak up, they use their voices, they
all come together collectively, they can make a lot of changes.
(30:20):
And if Spoon is not given I'm sorry. If Spoon
is not given another opportunity to coach and not an assistant,
if she's not given another opportunity to be a head
coach in the w NBA, shame on them.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, And I think that's a good place to leave it.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So stick around.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Fans will be right back after this will a little
bit more.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Welcome back, guys.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
To levels to this with Cheryl Swoop Sincereka Foster Bradsby
and you know, we have at quite a much needed
and maybe to some uncomfortable conversation around the expectations around
black women and specifically coaching in the WNBA. But one
thing that I want everyone to take away from you know,
this conversation is that things can change, but it starts
(31:18):
with you, Like you have to be a person to
As you mentioned earlier, Cheryl, use your voice, right, players
got to use their voice. I love seeing the WNBA
Players Association utilizing their platform to speak up on behalf
of what they felt was right. I love it when
people are not afraid to challenge the status quo. I
(31:41):
think that's the first way that we can really start
to bring about some form of change.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And you know better than anybody, this.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
League has been a league where it's players have been
on the forefront of changing things and changing narratives for
years is what they do.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So I think that has to be one of the.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Ways that we start to say, hey, y'all, y'all can't
keep doing this, like y'all can't keep acting like this
front office can't keep acting like this.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I'm not going to continue to.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Play for like in situations like this, right. So, I
definitely love the idea of using the power of your voice.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, and Tee what I There's so much that I
took away from our conversation, and you know, just just
being able to talk about real life shit.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
And it's not just in sports. This is unfortunately, this
is the world that we're living in today. It is.
But I think one way to make.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
A change is just that having the uncomfortable, tough conversations,
because if you just continue to keep it inside and
be mad and be angry at the world, nothing's ever
going to change. But you also can't be afraid to
speak up. You can't be afraid to have those conversations.
And I also look at it and say, one thing
(32:56):
I know about the w and you just said it.
It doesn't We know that WNBA is predominantly a black league,
But I also know that the white players, international players,
they are all a big sisterhood and they all have
shown before that when the one forty four comes together,
they can make change. And that's one thing that I.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Would love to see them do more of, is just
speak out right.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Race, politics, religion, those those are some uncomfortable conversations, but
they're conversations that have to be had.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, per And so usually I always say something crazy like, oh,
you know, I apologize if I offend anybody, But no,
I don't apologize at all, because if you're offended by
the conversation that we just had. If the conversation made
you that uncomfortable, then this conversation was for you.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It was for you.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You are the exact target audience that we were looking
to get to periods and ask the bottom line. But
as we are leveling off from today's show, sure, I
know you got something to help our fans.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Level up for the next for the next week.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Who do I do? I do? I listen?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
You know what I have for the people today, for
my sisters today, and you know what just for women
in general.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Period, This is what I got for you. And it's
called this Woman.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It says this woman has fought a thousand battles and
is still standing, has cried a thousand tears and is
still smiling, has been broken, betrayed, abandoned, rejected, but she
still walks proud, laughs loud, lives without fear, loves without doubt.
This woman is beautiful, This woman is humble. This woman
(34:48):
is you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Oh my gosh, Charyl, where do you find these?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Don't say that's what I got for you today? But
I needed that one. I needed that one.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I did. I needed that for my soul.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, that was a good one. That was a good win.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
We're getting ready to head out of town, and so
that's kind of those things that you need to like
take with you as you like, you know, get on
the plane and be like, I got this, all right,
I got this. I think sometimes we do we question ourselves, right,
And we talked about this on our last episode. We
just we questioned a lot. But I don't know how
(35:27):
many of us haven't.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Been broken, been doubted, been questioned, and we still find
a way, like may Angelo said, and still I rise, right,
I find a way to keep rising. So to all
of my sisters out there, y'all keep doing you, keep
being you, and keep rising.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That's what we do, y'all.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, everybody, thanks for listening to levels to This will
be back next week with more next level conversations about
the real shit we go through as women listening. This
isn't just our show, it's our show, so we want
to hear from you. Leave us a review and Apple
podcasts tell us what you thought of this week's show
and what you may want us to talk about next.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
But until then, keep
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Your mentors ground level and we'll be back next week.
Hey, everybody, I'm Tarika Fosterter Brasby and I'm Cheryl Swoops
and this is the levels to this podcast. This is
a show where we are going to share that it's
levels to the ship that women go through. And I
know that we've got a great show lined up today.
But first, my girl, Cheryl, we got to check in.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
How are you? How are things going?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
What's good? Girl?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Life has been life in life has been life. And listen,
take that damn Detroit cap off of your head.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm in my I am in.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
My feelings because y'all gave the Astros a nice little
beaten you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Did see, Yeah, folks, For folks who don't know, at
the time of this recording, my Detroit Tigers are out
here doing the damn thing as sheryln her feelings.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And that's fine, it's cool. I'm mad at a week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We ain't been.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We have not been a winner in ten years, y'all
will let us have this?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Oh that's right, y'all haven't been but we okay, okay, okay,
all right, I'm gonna let you make it on that one.
Surel you know what, that's why, that's why folks throwing
you under the bus.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Now that is why you under the bus?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Now, well, please do tell because I've kind of taken
a couple of days off from social media, so I
don't know. I don't know what did I do?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
What did I do?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
What did I do?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So you're not sure why you're trending? Okay, well let
me feel you and everybody in on exactly why you're trending.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You're trending because.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm sorry. Can we just do a toast? Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Glass, definitely do a toast?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, grab a glass, cheers.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
What are we toasting to?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It's Friday, every it's the weekend, and we're toasting to
every having your name in their mouth.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
There we go, that's the time.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Chairs, that's the toast. That's the toast because like that.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So you know, it's the end of the season, fans
and now people in the WBA are receiving their awards,
and so we know that Asia was the unanimous MVP.
We know that Nafisa Collier won the Physical Player of
the Year, Djne Carrington won Most Improved, Cheryl Reed got
Coach of the Year, Executive of the Year, and it
(02:34):
was just recently officially announced that Caitlyn Clark earned the
Rookie of the Year, So shout out to Kaitlin Clark
for winning Rookie of the Year. However, congrats to Kaitlin.
Why kent gratz to Caitlin much deserve. She received sixty
six of the sixty seven votes, So apparently, Sean, you
(02:54):
are the person who was of Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That gave Angel Reees.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Angel Reese is the other person who got the one vote,
So clearly it's your fault that she is not the
unanimous Rookie of the Year. You are such a hater
that you can't stand it that you decided to give
your vote, waste your vote on Angel Reaes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Now I'm wondering who's gonna tell to people who.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
There's a lot in this.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
First of all, congratulations to Caitlin, very well deserved. Had
a hell of a rookie year, doing things that just
hasn't been done by a rookie before. But I hate
to disappoint the people because I don't get a vote.
Y'all cannot I'm like, because it's funny, y'all cannot blame
(03:49):
this one on me. I don't get a vote. I've
never had a vote in.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Any of the awards. But I too, like everyone else,
would love to know who.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That person is.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Maybe it's the same person that gave Asia Wilson a
fourth place vote last year.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I don't know. I'm gonna take a drink. I'm gonna
take a drink. I'm gonna take a drink. I'm gonna
just take a sexon. It's funny to me because last
year folks told folks to just get over it, just
get out of the wrong place, fourth place, just get yeah,
just get over it. But this year all hell has
(04:30):
broken loose because folks want to know who gave Angel
the vote. And my thing is, so what if Angel
got the vote. It's not like she wasn't deserving of
a vote, absolutely, I mean, she did have a hell
of a rookie season. So why I'm surprised she only
got one vote.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, I am a voter. I voted for Katelyn Clark.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I thought after the Olympic break she separated herself from
the pack. But up until that time, I was neck
and neck. I was like, this very well could be Angel,
This could be Kaitlin. Wait, it's Angel again. I was
going back and forth, so I don't understand why folks
is mad. Can't nobody explain why Asia got a fourth
place vote?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Like, you can't. You can't justify that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
But you're off the hook because you just said you
voted for Caitlyn, so we can mark you all did. Well,
let's just keep Let's keep going down the line and
figure out who that person is. So let me also
say this, whoever that person is that gave Angel a vote,
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
She's been very deserving of a vote, right, I like you.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
The beginning of the season was like, could be either
it could be Angel, could be Caitlyn. And I'll also
say this, if Rakia Jackson would have gotten more playing
time in the beginning of the season, Rakia Jackson would
be in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
But I digress. Anyway, I thought at one point I did.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I was like, Angel Reese has my Rookie of the
Year vote because she set the double double record and
or a rookie is impressive. And I thought she was
playing very well hat Chicago looking really good at one point, right,
or at least good, not really but good.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I agree with you. After the Olympic break, Caitlin Clark
got some rest, got some food, got some vacation, got
some own.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
No, I ain't all up in her business like that.
She got some whatever it was, and she came.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Back and completely separated herself from all other rookies in
the league.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
So congratulations to Caitlin. Y'all can't get mad at me.
I don't get vote, So it wasn't me.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It wasn't Cheryl, So sorry, narrative. Stop trending Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you're trending Cheryl on Twitter, it better be because
you listen and love our podcast, not because go stop it,
go you stop it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But I'm glad that you brought.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Up Chicago because I think it's time for us to
take it to the next level.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
All right.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So on September twenty six, the Chicago Sky decided to
part ways with head coach Teresa Weatherspoon after just one season.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
They even released a statement that said.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
After careful consideration, we have decided it's in the best
interest of the organization to part ways with head coach
Teresa Weatherspoon. We are deeply appreciative of coach t Spoon's
contributions to the Chicago Sky and the energy and passion
she brought to the head coaching role.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Apparently, folks was.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Not aware that this was going to go down. Angel
Reese the star of the team, and usually these types
of decisions don't happen without the star player on your
team knowing about it. But the star of the team
tweeted that she was heartbroken other people in the organization.
Kennedy Carter had comments there were folks that were just confused,
and then of course us on the outside are like,
(08:00):
or is this the same Are y'all watching the same
teaspoon or looking at the same organization that I'm looking at,
because I don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't understand how this happens.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Now, I know you have a relationship with food, and
so I know you were also somebody that was like
pissed off that this happened. Pissed off as an understatement, tee, don't.
I don't even know where to begin with this even now,
just hearing you say those words and what you said,
(08:34):
like like this shit makes me emotional for her, It
makes me angry, It makes me sad, it makes me frustrated,
it pisses me off.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I guess my thing like food and I had a
conversation and I'm not going to share stuff she told
me because it's not my story to tell, but she
did give me permission to talk about certain things. Here
is what I will say if, and this is if,
if you hired her under.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
The conditions of if you don't make the playoffs or
if you don't win a championship, we're going to fire
you right like I'm I'm hoping that's not why you
hired her, because how ignorant is that they were what
two I don't know one two games out of that
eighth playoff spot.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And when you when you think about spot, they did
they did right. But here's my thing, when you think
about what all she had to deal with, let's just
let's just start from the beginning. She's a new head coach.
She pretty much has a whole new damn team. She's
a new team. You drafted to rookie, you brought back
(09:54):
Kennedy Carter who hadn't been in the league in a while.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
And you still almost made the playoffs. You trade a
Marina Maybrey right before the Olympic break. Izzy has been injured,
not healthy all season. Elizabeth Williams goes out with a
season ending injury Camilla Cardoso the beginning of the year
misses I don't know how many games because she has
(10:19):
a shoulder injury. The end of the year, Angel gets hurt,
she breaks her wrist. Kennedy Carter misses some games because
she has I guess COVID or whatever they called it.
Help me understand what more could she do with what
she had to work with?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Rights?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
And on top of that, how did y'all help her worked? Like,
how did y'all help her be successful? Because your front
office is shitty? So what did y'all do to help
her be successful? Horrible? It's horrible, Like that's what I
don't understand, Like, y'all not only did it put her
(10:59):
in a position to win, but she's still found a
way to be damn mere in the playoffs and still
found some level of success despite all of the shit
that she had stacked against her.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, and this is how you were Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
No, she she walked into a mess yep, she walked
into and the entire and it's not the first time, right,
Like it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's not the first time.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And it leads me, it literally leads me to this
larger because we say it all the time that like
sports is a microcosm of real life society, and it
leads me to this larger conversation of.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Why do black women always have to deal with this
kind of shit?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Like why are we always expected to make something out
of nothing? Why do we always have to work twice
as hard to get half of what other people get?
And when we don't deliver on what that whatever unreasonable
expectation is, we're the ones that have to take a hit,
We're the ones that lose our jobs, or we're the
ones that don't get the promotion, we're the ones that
(12:06):
don't get seen, don't get recognized, whatever. Just recently, there
was a conversation on super Bird and Megan Rapinos podcast,
right and they were talking about a lot of the
racism and the things like that that has happened in
the WNBA, and it pissed me off to no end
because they were one hundred percent correct on what Sue
(12:27):
was one hundred percent correct on what she was saying.
But we black women have been saying this the entire
time and nobody was listening. So it's that thing that
is ever present, it's never gone away. And te spool
is just another example of unreasonable expectations that are put
(12:51):
on us that are not put on anyone else. I
ain't trying to say nobody else should lose their jobs,
because I ain't the one that's out here calling for
people's jobs. But Tricia Trammon and Dallas folks been wondering
what's going on down there. I ain't saying electrician should
lose her job. I'm just saying, why nobody calling for
her head? Christy sides about this year one day. I
(13:15):
don't see Christy. I don't see Christy losing her job.
I'm just a little concerned as to like how the
gold post just continues to move for black women. Listen,
I'm just over here because you are hitting the nail
on the head.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It is, and it doesn't matter what your profession is.
Black women are expected to work miracles with a lot less, right,
And when we don't, we're fired, we're let go, We're questioned,
(13:53):
we're not good enough.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I I'm there with you. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's a conversation that a lot of people don't want
to have, but it's a conversation that needs to be had.
And when you look at the WNBA as a whole,
from the beginning to from nineteen ninety seven when the
league started. Black women, for whatever reason, just haven't really
been given the same opportunities in the WNBA as their
(14:24):
white counterparts, whether that's a white female or a white male.
We just haven't been given that opportunity. And when we
are like there's a microscope on us where they're watching
every little thing we do and not allowing us to
be who we are. Right, Spoon one of the fiercest
(14:49):
competitors I've ever played against, one of the best people
I've ever known that I know.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And when you have.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
A rookie in Angel Reese who speaks up and says, damn,
I want to play for her and her seeing the
talent and Kennedy Carter to say, Kennedy Carter needs to be.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
In this league, I agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
There are not a lot of coaches in this league
that can coach a Kennedy Carter. But Spoon was that one.
And not only was she just another player that played
in the WNBA, She's.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
A freaking Hall of Famer. One season one.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You gave her one season one season, Like.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Please make that make sense. I don't see how any
coach can turn around a franchise in one season, but
certainly not under the circumstances that Spoon was under. It
just truly bothers me and baffles me because I don't
(15:58):
understand why the expectations for us are always different. I
recall reading an article from the Sports Business Journal that
came out a couple of years ago, maybe about two
or three years ago now, and they talked about how
when you look at players and player marketing in the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
To the point that you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
There were two hundred and twelve I believe, articles that
were written that season about the WNBA, and of the
two hundred and twelve articles that were written, black players
were only mentioned forty four times the leading players.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That were mentioned in that season.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And I believe this was it was the I'm saying
twenty twenty one, but it might have been twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It was the County the twenty fifth anniversary season.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So that was the season where it was two hundred
and twelve articles written. Black players were mentioned in those
articles forty four times. Now, help me do the math,
because there are one hundred and forty four players in
the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Eighty percent of the players in the WNBA are African
American or women of cubs.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You could only talk about forty four of them in
two hundred and twelve articles. And that's not even forty
four different players, such as forty four different mentions. So
probably the same player mentioned multiple times. I'd give you
maybe you know Asia Wilson, maybe probably a Jewel Lloyd
or you know, maybe you know, I don't know, Alissa
(17:21):
Thomas might have got a name in it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't know. I can't be sure.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
At that time, they probably were still ignoring Connecticut, so
it ain't no telling. But the point that I'm making
is is that it has never been fair as it
relates to race, and folks don't want to tackle race
because it makes them uncomfortable. But that's exactly the problem.
You need to be uncomfortable. You just need to be
uncomfortable in having this conversation. Yes, And I even know
(17:45):
from personal experience coming through this business. As I was
making my way through this industry, there were opportunities that
were presented that I would apply for and I would
not get those opportunities, but they would use me to
train the white man or the white girl that they
hired in my place. And I was mad confused, like
wait a minute, or you know this person could continually
(18:09):
be late, continually be late, continually be late. If I
show up five minutes late one time, it's a warning. Yeah,
how did I like? The goalpost keeps it keeps moving,
and so it gets me to a point where I
just always have to ask, like what what can we do?
Like at what point does it does the responsibility shift
(18:32):
from us needing to meet a specific expectations to folks
understanding the expectations they're setting is unrealistic. Chicago should have
known that there was no possible way that they were going.
And from my understanding, the person who released this was
also a black woman, right, so now we really playing
that game? Now we really playing that game? Right where
(18:54):
we're really playing that game? Now, like this a smoove
over better if she says it or if she t
because it won't look like we're the ones that's really
behind the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
So you know what, you're gonna take the black woman
and put her out in front and let her release
the statement because it's a black woman you're.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Firing, right, So you think that we can't see.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Through the bullshit, like we see what you're doing. But
I also want to God, this is such a deep
topic and conversation, but it's one that needs to be
had because I also want to go back to like
the whole Christine Brennan interview, not even interview, but her
(19:44):
questions for dj A Carrington right. And I know there
are a lot of people who are like, no, Christine,
she did nothing wrong. She said nothing wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Everything about that question and the follow up question was
wrong and it was the way you ask it. Yes,
Christine Brennan's been in the game for a very long time.
I don't know how much she's actually covered the WNBA
in it's twenty seven years. But okay, whatever, but you
(20:18):
you came at her. You came at her and basically
said you hit her in the eye, poked her in
the eye. I also heard someone on ESPN or CNN
or somewhere say you stabbed her in the eye.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I'm like, yes, see it in y like you stabbed
her in the eye. I'm like, no, she didn't. First
of all, Caitlyn herself said it was a basketball play.
This happens all the time. But you come at her like, oh, Djna,
can you tell us if you intentionally meant to hit
(20:55):
Caitlyn in the eye.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So I asked this question.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Did she go to Caitlyn and say, Caitlin, did you
purposely hit Djona in the I when she lost her contact?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I thank you, thank you? Did you because the question
is no, you did not right, No, of course you didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Of course you didn't. It's of course you did.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's stuff like it's stuff like that tea that as
a as a black woman, and I don't care what
profession even me as a as a former professional athlete,
like you know, when you're when you're playing and you're
at the top of your game, everybody loves you, everybody
wants you, and when you're done, like, I can't tell
(21:41):
you how many times I personally have tried. I've tried
and tried and tried to get on staff, not even
as a head coach, but as an assistant coach with
a WNBA team. Now, don't don't come at me and
say you don't have enough experience. I am a three
time MVP, a four time Olympic, a three excuse me,
(22:04):
a three time Olympic gold medalist, a four time WMA champion,
a three.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Time Defensive Player of the Year. But were gonna keep
going random credential, Cheryl, random shit chirl. Don't you know what.
I may not have the the the so called coaching experience,
but I have the experience. You know the game, you
know the game, you know the game.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But you but you will go yes, but but that's
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
That that isn't good enough. Another example of this is
just last season, last season, how many black women head
coaches could we have had in the w NBA, But
instead the Phoenix Mercury hired Vanessa and I that part. Yeah,
there were coaches out there who won from college players
(22:52):
like you know, former players like yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
There are so many.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Different people, but instead you went with Vanessa and I Guard.
Now that franchise was already going through whatever they were
going through, because clearly they were dealing with the Britney
Griner situation, they were dealing with the Sky, the dig
and Smith situation. They already had enough on their plate.
And rumor has it that Nicki Blue, who essentially took
(23:17):
over after Vanessa was fired, was the person who had
the ear of the team any way. So my question
from the beginning was why who also was someone who
had more experience? Why was she not already considered, why
was she not your first go to It's just like
we have to continue again to work twice as hard
(23:38):
and not get half as much.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's not even talking.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
About those who have to worry about paid differential and
those who have to worry about recognition. I recall one
time sitting in a meeting with my former employer. I
was sitting in a meeting and I brought up a
really dope ass idea, and folks questioned my idea like
ten times times. They found every hole that could be
(24:02):
poked in that idea. A month later, we come back
to our monthly meeting and a coworker of mine he
mentions the exact same thing, but shifts maybe one.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Or two words.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I
could not contain myself. I quickly stood up in that
meeting and I said, hey, guys, I'm not even trying
to be funny, but for real, for real, I said
the same shit last month. So what's the difference between
last month and now? Like, what makes it different now?
Because he said it? Like, that's what makes it different
because he said it, because he did it. And so
the point is simply this, We're always ignored, but the
(24:39):
expectation never changes. I'm still expected to produce at the
same level in the same rate as my white male
and female counterparts.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And I get sometimes that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You know, as women, we have to always stick up
for each other and stick together, but there is definitely
a difference at time and the expectation even between white
women and black women, right, And it's we have to
acknowledge that. We have to because here's the thing. If
this was a white head coach, to say, the opportunity
(25:10):
to coach again is not at all the same as
it is with Spoon. We don't know if Spoon gonna
get an opportunity to coach again because the door is
not always reopened for us.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
No, and that's the problem. You're one hundred percent correct.
Just like back to the Nicki Blue situation, right, Niki
Blue was good enough to be the quote interim coach
and get you through the season and be there through
the Britney Grinder situation and tackle the Skylar Diggins questions
when she wasn't the one who was the head coach. Right,
(25:46):
She's good enough to get you through the season, but
she's not good enough to be your next head coach.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's the part.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And where's Nikki?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Now, don't know. I'm looked up because I was curious.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Right, we started in nineteen ninety seven and I was
fortunate enough.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
To be able to play quite a few years.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
But I looked this up because I was curious, and
it said of the black head coaches, twenty one have
been black men and twenty have been black women. Now,
mind you, this is since nineteen ninety seven, so this
is on Google so anybody can look it up. It
just said, in a league made up primarily of women
(26:31):
of color, just twenty one point five percent of WNBA
head coaches have been black women in the league's twenty
seven year history. You mean to tell me that we're
not good enough or we're not qualified enough to be
in charge as to coach a team as a as
(26:52):
a head coach. And you know what happens team when
a situation like Teaspoon happens. It puts a bad taste
in our mouth, like I see what happened to her,
And in my mind, I'm like, hey, y'all know, I
don't want to be the next one.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, but you was.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
But what it also does is that it makes you
feel as if that door will never be open for
someone else, like I don't want this to be And granted,
if it was a situation where she just truly did
not perform, and if it was a performance situation, that's
one thing, right And I say that to say, there's
(27:30):
head coach Tennisha Wright. Head coach tennische Wright was also
let go this past season from the Atlanta Dream. Head
coach tennich Wright was a black woman, and she had
three years to build in Atlanta, and unfortunately, even when
she was given some additional pieces, I think the addition
of an aerial powers, granted she has some injuries, but
(27:50):
an addition of an aerial powers Jordan Canada, like you
know the way Ryan Howard continues to dominate. Alisha Gray
truly came out of her shell this year. Felt like
you had the pieces to at least take your team
to the next level, the next level being the postseason,
maybe even get a first round win.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You had the pieces.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So no one's going to put up a fight about
the dismissal of Tanisha, right because I think most people
who know the sport, no, Well, since you were given
an opportunity, you didn't make good on that opportunity, and
so this happens, right, Yeah, But I do think that
Tanisha should get another job somewhere because I don't think
(28:32):
she's a bad head coach. Just maybe this wasn't wasn't
for her. I look at women like Vicki Johnson, she
was on her assistant coaching staff. She said, absolutely, get
another head coaching position. I don't feel like she shouldn't
be a head coach anywhere. We talked about Nicki Blu
and that's the thing. We can see the recycling of
coaches over and over, but do we continue to see
(28:53):
these additional chances given to us. And that's what is
disappoint When that door closes. Exactly when that door closes,
that door is closed, like that ship is. It's shut.
It's shut. And listen, when when you talk about performance,
I don't, I don't. I don't. I don't really give
(29:15):
a ship what their reason is. It was wrong, it
was wrong.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
You cannot expect Spool to come in there her very
first season and really make the playoffs, win the championship whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I my mind is blown.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Like I saw that and I was like, oh, this
gotta be a different Teresa Weatherspoon because I know it ain't.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
The head coach of Chicago, There's no way.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I also.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Need the players to understand how much power they hold
in their voices and when shiit a right.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Y'all has y'all gotta speak up. Yep, that's all. That's
all I'm gonna say, because I'm not sure a lot
of the players under truly understand the value that they
hold when they speak up, they use their voices, they
all come together collectively, they can make a lot of changes.
(30:20):
And if Spoon is not given I'm sorry. If Spoon
is not given another opportunity to coach and not an assistant,
if she's not given another opportunity to be a head
coach in the w NBA, shame on them.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, And I think that's a good place to leave it.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So stick around.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Fans will be right back after this will a little
bit more.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Welcome back, guys.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
To levels to this with Cheryl Swoop Sincereka Foster Bradsby
and you know, we have at quite a much needed
and maybe to some uncomfortable conversation around the expectations around
black women and specifically coaching in the WNBA. But one
thing that I want everyone to take away from you know,
this conversation is that things can change, but it starts
(31:18):
with you, Like you have to be a person to
As you mentioned earlier, Cheryl, use your voice, right, players
got to use their voice. I love seeing the WNBA
Players Association utilizing their platform to speak up on behalf
of what they felt was right. I love it when
people are not afraid to challenge the status quo. I
(31:41):
think that's the first way that we can really start
to bring about some form of change.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And you know better than anybody, this.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
League has been a league where it's players have been
on the forefront of changing things and changing narratives for
years is what they do.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So I think that has to be one of the.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Ways that we start to say, hey, y'all, y'all can't
keep doing this, like y'all can't keep acting like this
front office can't keep acting like this.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I'm not going to continue to.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Play for like in situations like this, right. So, I
definitely love the idea of using the power of your voice.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, and Tee what I There's so much that I
took away from our conversation, and you know, just just
being able to talk about real life shit.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
And it's not just in sports. This is unfortunately, this
is the world that we're living in today. It is.
But I think one way to make.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
A change is just that having the uncomfortable, tough conversations,
because if you just continue to keep it inside and
be mad and be angry at the world, nothing's ever
going to change. But you also can't be afraid to
speak up. You can't be afraid to have those conversations.
And I also look at it and say, one thing
(32:56):
I know about the w and you just said it.
It doesn't We know that WNBA is predominantly a black league,
But I also know that the white players, international players,
they are all a big sisterhood and they all have
shown before that when the one forty four comes together,
they can make change. And that's one thing that I.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Would love to see them do more of, is just
speak out right.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Race, politics, religion, those those are some uncomfortable conversations, but
they're conversations that have to be had.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, per And so usually I always say something crazy like, oh,
you know, I apologize if I offend anybody, But no,
I don't apologize at all, because if you're offended by
the conversation that we just had. If the conversation made
you that uncomfortable, then this conversation was for you.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It was for you.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You are the exact target audience that we were looking
to get to periods and ask the bottom line. But
as we are leveling off from today's show, sure, I
know you got something to help our fans.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Level up for the next for the next week.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Who do I do? I do? I listen?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
You know what I have for the people today, for
my sisters today, and you know what just for women
in general.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Period, This is what I got for you. And it's
called this Woman.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It says this woman has fought a thousand battles and
is still standing, has cried a thousand tears and is
still smiling, has been broken, betrayed, abandoned, rejected, but she
still walks proud, laughs loud, lives without fear, loves without doubt.
This woman is beautiful, This woman is humble. This woman
(34:48):
is you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Oh my gosh, Charyl, where do you find these?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Don't say that's what I got for you today? But
I needed that one. I needed that one.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I did. I needed that for my soul.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, that was a good one. That was a good win.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
We're getting ready to head out of town, and so
that's kind of those things that you need to like
take with you as you like, you know, get on
the plane and be like, I got this, all right,
I got this. I think sometimes we do we question ourselves, right,
And we talked about this on our last episode. We
just we questioned a lot. But I don't know how
(35:27):
many of us haven't.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Been broken, been doubted, been questioned, and we still find
a way, like may Angelo said, and still I rise, right,
I find a way to keep rising. So to all
of my sisters out there, y'all keep doing you, keep
being you, and keep rising.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
That's what we do, y'all.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, everybody, thanks for listening to levels to This will
be back next week with more next level conversations about
the real shit we go through as women listening. This
isn't just our show, it's our show, so we want
to hear from you. Leave us a review and Apple
podcasts tell us what you thought of this week's show
and what you may want us to talk about next.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
But until then, keep
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Your mentors ground level and we'll be back next week.
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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