October 16, 2025 • 60 mins
On this episode of Levels to This, Sheryl Swoopes and Terrika Foster-Brasby welcome back their first repeat guest—journalist, author, and WNBA OG supporter Jemele Hill. The trio kicks things off with hilarious homeowner horror stories (ever had to buy a fake owl to scare off invading critters?) before diving into the state of the WNBA and the controversy surrounding Commissioner Cathy Engelbert. Jemele brings her journalist’s insight and historical perspective, reflecting on what’s changed—and what hasn’t—since she covered Sheryl’s time in the league. Together, they unpack player power, the upcoming CBA negotiations, and why respect, not gratitude, is the real battle for women’s sports today.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, everybody, it's your Girl's Rika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
What's up, y'all? It's your girl, Cheryl Swoops And this
is a levels to this.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
This is the show where we talk about the various
levels of shit that women go through, and recently we've
been talking about the various levels of shit that everybody
going through because it's been that kind of a month
for real. But first and foremost, before we get into
our surface level conversation, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Cheryl, Hey bo, howell you.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I got something on my mind. Oh honey, get it
all mine, Get it off.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The place I needs to get it off.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Get it off all right.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So the other day I recorded an episode with Jordan Robinson,
and you know, we talked about various things, the finals
and just stuff, right wnba stuff, And Jordan informed me
(01:20):
that game one of this year's finals ranked second only
behind the nineteen ninety seven finals.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So you're laughing because you know where I'm going.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I do.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
But let me just educate the people out there for
a second, so that nineteen ninety seven finals would have
been the New York Liberty versus.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
The one the only Houston comic m right.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, okay, So Jordan said that to me, and you know,
my petty ass, I had to get a little pettiness
in there.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Of course, you did.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I want to get what do you think? I said?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I that y'all was the shit, And it don't make
no difference pretty much. But here's what I here's what
I actually said. Because you know, the talk today is, well,
no one watched the WNBA back in the day.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So when Jordan told me that, I was petty, and
I said.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Oh so you mean people really did watch back there?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That was petty, but I thought it was funny, it
was cute.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yes, So we had a laugh.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We had that conversation, and then we go on to
talk about whatever we were going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now here's the good part.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So I wake up this morning and you know, I'm
going social media since and I see a headline that
says this isn't word for word, but it basically says,
Cheryl Swoops gets petty talking about the w n b
(03:14):
A Finals viewership or something like that, and this was
on SI dot com.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So usually t I'm like, are you sure a real
person wrote it?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, A I write this stuff. But it was a
whole lot of you know, just different topics. So well
maybe he did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Have a I write it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Not that I care, but I was like, first of all,
I know what I said, but I just had to
go look and you know, see, so I'm reading all
the things and then it gets down to you know
what I just told you I.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Said, which to me was funny, it was cute. Yeah,
it was petty.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But this person, this person by the name of Grant Young,
because I looked him up.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Oh uh huh, he says.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Cheryl Swoops gets petty by saying, oh, well, people really
did watch back then.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But here's what he said, Gray.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
He tried to come for me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And said, but she only played five minutes and had
zero points.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Here's the part I need mister Grant Young to know
and understand.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
First of all, buddy, you clearly just started watching even
if you watch, even if you watch, But what you don't,
what you didn't.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Put in that article.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yep, is this that Finals championship game was on August
the thirtieth. Cheryl Swoops gave birth to her son on
June the twenty fifth of that same year. So the
fact that I was even able to get out on
the floor and play, I don't care if it was
(05:02):
thirty seconds, but to play five.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Minutes two months after giving birth, what have you done?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Could never do it, could literally never do it ever,
never ever ever, never ever ever. So I just needed
to just get that off my chest because I was like, oh,
that's cute.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I did play.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Five minutes, didn't score, but you know what, I did
get a championship.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I don't care how many minutes I played. Ask the aces,
the players who did. Ask Kid Stokes if she cares
how many minutes she played, because she walked off with
another Ryan, another.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
One, another one, and another one.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, So like, don't try to be like, oh, well,
she talking about they did watch back then, but she
only played five minutes and did and guess what.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Though, the point still remains that it was the number
one viewed w NBA finals, so people still watched watchin
So people need to just let this narrative go that
folks only started tuning in right now, I used to
say the same thing about Vivian Stringer. People used to
get on my nerves talk about folks saying watching college
(06:12):
and I was like, do.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Y'all not know how many arenas that that black woman
pecked out? Oh my gosh, come on, do you like
you know even for me?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Since you brought Vivian Stringer up right, because I remember
people talking about, you know, Iowa making it to the
final four and it was like the first time. I
was like, no, no, no, no, because I was there
in nineteen ninety three when coach Vivian C. Stringer took
Iowa to the final four.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Sure did, and I remember I am good friends with one,
said Felicia hall Allen.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Who played at IOWA at that time.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
But you know it is people who just started watching yesterday.
They don't understand the game. Yeah you know, yeah, it's
okay cool. I just think you for letting me get
that off.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'm glad you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm glad you got that off. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
And you know what, And the funny thing is because
I don't know if he thought he was like doing
something or saying something when he was like she gets petty.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I told Jordan, I was gonna be petty. I needed
to be petty.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And that's moment, folks don't ever listen. Listen, listen.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I need people to understand because something similar happened to
me last week.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right, so last.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Somebody say you didn't know none about basketball?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh girl, somebody I get that.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Every other day somebody told me I don't know about basketball,
but this this particular person. So I don't think I
told you all this because it was funny, but this
my way, Chris, Chris Williamson made a tweet about mad Gufson.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Said, because the day that Asia hit that shot.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
She was saying, she was sitting in the corner with
the ball.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Now we all she was in a shooter.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Ready, do you hear me? Ready?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
She was the ship if you weren't about to get
that ball, but she was ready.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
You knew Asia wann't for to give you that ball,
but you know what, you better be ready.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Now we are good that the actual concept of what
she was doing.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yes, Chris made a joke and said, Meg is hilarious
for this with the picture. And when I saw the tweet,
I thought that the way Chris captioned it was hilarious.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So I retweeted, So I retweeted Chris.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And I said a fool because I'm talking about him
like this catch is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Do you know how many people retweeted that tweet talking
about Tarika is calling Meg Govsenson a fool and tagging
Asia talking about is this?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Are you okay with medium members? Are you nah?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I know, age Doppy?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Are you okay with media members calling your teammate out
her name?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Fool? So here I go.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I said, I'm gonna let y'all know something about black
people lingo. When people say something silly, funny things like that,
we tend to say you're a fool. I shortened it
and just said a fool. I was not talking about Meg.
I was talking about Chris. And then that's where everybody
was like, girl, we understood. If the folks didn't get it,
(09:35):
then they just didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
That's on them, because you ain't got to explain none
of that none. As matter of fact, I don't even
know if you put the l on it. It's just
a fool, A fool, yeah, not a fool. You are
you are a fool, fool crazy, But that's social media
for you. It is it is. It is so for
you to make that the headline and call me Patty Boo.
(09:58):
You ain't do nothing.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
At did none, but just so made me laugh at
your ass because I really did just laugh, just laugh.
But since since we're talking about the finals though, I mean,
congratulations to the Las Vegas Aces for the sweep.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You know what's crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
I saw you more in the last two weeks than
I have in the last three months, and I still
didn't really get the link up with you in Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, phisis was a little different for me.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Sis.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I just I went to the game and I.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Saw you and then I did Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
But you know, they kept talking about like all this
rain is coming and the weather was gonna get bad.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh it did rain.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I was like, let me go to my room and
I ain't gonna lie to you. You know, be outside,
you don't. I was so excited that the game finished
early that.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I could go get in my Really, I was like, yeah, sleep, slap.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I did not go to sleep. Immediately.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I looked over to the sideline, I saw you, and
then I didn't, and I was like, damn sure, going already?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Cow.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
That was crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I stayed long enough to hear the booze and the things.
I'm sorry that was petty too.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Let he go on new headline sure references the booze
of Kathy, of Kathy Engelbert. Oh what's crazy about that
is I was literally standing less than six feet away
from Kathy and couldn't hear a thing she said, Like
if I just didn't know the routine. I know, Holly Hair,
(11:32):
I know the mic is Finna. I know Kathy Finna,
get on the mic and give the trophy to the owner.
I know that's what's gonna happen. But I couldn't hear
a word. And that was only one video I posted
on Twitter. I ain't even post the other one. The
other video was when she was getting ready to introduce Asia.
Them booz were so loud. Asia didn't even hear her name, Like.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Asia, grab that trophy so quick, like I don't want
to be a part of this.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Quiz me my trophy and let me move, move, move.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Aside, and I'm outside and out.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
But I am incredibly happy for the Las Vegas Aces.
I'm glad that they capped off their season and the
way that they did. I'm surprised that Phoenix didn't win
a game. I really thought that they could win a
game at at least.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
One at home.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, you know, I was like so excited for it
to for the first time we had a seven game series.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I was like, Oh, this is gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I did not. I didn't have a sweep on my
Bingo cart.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I really thought.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
They were gonna get at least especially the way they
came out in Game one at Vegas and pretty much
had it won.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Oh this is about to be a series. Series.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That was the one for me, Like that was the
one that made me realize, like this could go very differently.
I had aces and six that was my predictionation and
six and that. I thought after that, well, this might
be aces and five because that was your one, Like
you can steal that one at home and then you
got another one. So why when they didn't close that,
(13:12):
I was like, dang, this might be aces in five.
But I know Phoenix, right, professional women, they are going
to win one yep, yep at home, yep.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You know the thing that I hate.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
There was a lot of things I really enjoyed about
the finals. There were things I didn't like about the finals.
There's always the what ifs. Right, So in the Phoenix
Link series, there's the what if he doesn't get hurt?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Does Phoenix still win?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Do they not?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You know this series when Satu went out with a concussion,
in which you know, prayers to her, hope she's doing
much better, But there's always the question mark of if
Satu plays in game four, do they win Game four?
I don't know, but you know what I do know,
(14:01):
Asia Wilson, is.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
That be period unstoppable, un stoppable You just not it
ain't none you can do it. She's good, it's she's
I just want to say that she should. She plays
very good basketball.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
She's a very good basketball. It's a very good.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But let me give just a few flowers to some
other people.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Sure, Melissa Smith has got to be one of the
happiest players right now to be able to go from
worse to first.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
From Indy to Dallas to the to the to the championship.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
To the champions and such a great brilliant move by
Nikki Calwell, Becky him, whoever said let's do this, because
she was that one of those pieces that I felt
they needed right because she could give them something offensively, defensively,
(15:03):
she was giving.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Them what they needed readbound in the ball. She was one.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Here's the other thing I want to say, whenever, whoever, however,
whatever any other evers you could think of, said we
need to have Dana Evans in this rotation for real,
chef's kiss, because Dana Evans, especially in Game two at home,
(15:29):
remember the Dana Evans jewel Lloyd both of them like
came out and said, oh, okay, we we really not
new to this.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Oh that was game one. Yeah, they they gave you
game one. Yeah, that was game one. Game two was
when Asia went off for sixty point trying Jackie.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I loved because even when in the beginning Dana
wasn't getting that much run. Yeah, Dana Evans showed and
proved why she deserves to not only be in this league,
but she deserves to be playing. Yeah, and that was
such a great move. And of course we can talk
(16:04):
about Chelsea, we can talk about Jackie. We already talked
about Asia. Like this team just started clicking at the
right moment. And when it's playoff basketball, you want to
be going into the playoffs playing individually playing your best,
but as a team playing.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Your best basketball.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
YEP, and the Aces just hit that stride at the
right time. And I don't care who they would have
faced in the playoffs. In the finals, it was gonna
be really hard to beat this team.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Really hard, really hard. I mean again, I'm gonna give
love to Phoenix on.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
The Phoenix side, because they were a team who truly
overachieved in the essence of people did not expect to
see y'all in the finals, right like people did not
expect to see Phoenix in the finals. From you look
at the beginning of the year, because you literally only
had two players returned from last season. You had a
(17:05):
bevy of injuries in the beginning where at one time
Kyle wasn't playing, At one time Alyssa wasn't played, and
you had SI two and come back, So like.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
You then you have worries about who was going to
hold it down.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Then you guys got dB mid season, as you know,
off waivers, and a lot happened over the course of
this year where you would say to yourself, like, for
a team that literally had never played together before, like
y'all did very very well.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So by that standard, I.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Think that they definitely hit an achievement level that folks
did not expect them to have this particular year. But
when you get Asia playing away, she's playing motivating the
people that she motivates on her team, and then Jackie
Young remembers the beast that she is and starts dropping
twenty eight thirty on you. You like, literally, there's there's nothing
(18:01):
you can do about it. And Indiana to me, gave
them the best run for their money to try, you know,
but at the end of the day, and that's you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Know, separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
But that's just because I think of all people in
the league, nobody guards Asia like Aliah Boston, and it
makes sense. They come from the same program, in the
same coaching styles, so it makes sense that that would
be the one to give you trouble. But you just
can't do nothing with Asia.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You can't. And that's just it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And t to your point, you know, the beginning of
the season, when I saw just all the different free
agency moves, saw what Phoenix did just with at and Satu,
I was like, Okay, I can see this team won
obviously winning more games and making some noise, but I
even even in saying that, I felt like they were
(18:52):
missing a couple of pieces, right, And if I'm Phoenix
and Nate Tibbots right now, my number one goal in
this offseason is to go find me a true four
four or five four that can score the basketball and
(19:13):
that can defend. Because Natasha Max, she gave you everything
she could give you. She she's a defender, right, yeah,
but when you ask her to come in and defend
and have to defend Asia Wilson like, that's a tough
task for anybody. And the other side of that is
you have Colanie Brown who didn't really play a whole
lot of minutes, and then in Game four you're saying, Kline,
(19:35):
go guard Asia right.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
From a physical standpoint, can she do it?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, But that's also putting my opinion, that's putting Kilanie
in a very unfair position right when she hasn't really
played that much. So I think they need to get
another scorer on the perimeter as well as go find
a true power forward that can score the ball, that
(20:02):
can defend, and who knows says could be different for
him next year.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Well, we will see what will happen for them next
year and every other team, because it ain't about Fox.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
People who ain't an unrestricted free agent.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So guarantee ah and fingers crossed, we have you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Who knows what that's gonna look like.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
But girl, the funny thing is is that while you
and I were in Las Vegas, we linked up with
our girl.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Jamail Hill.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And Jamel is just such a doll like I love Jamel.
She just it's never gonna be nobody like her, and
so I'm excited that while we were there we got
a chance to catch up with her and we had
a conversation about a lot, But we definitely took a
deep dive into next season what it could potentially look like,
(20:55):
the CBA and the press conference that Kathy gave ahead
of the start of the w NBA Finals and.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
All of the things that come along with that.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
So let's go ahead and dive into this conversation with
my girl Jamail and take this to the next level.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
All right, guys, So let me tell you how.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Excited I am about today because this is the first
time since RL and I have had this show that
we have had a guest for a second time.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
So in my mind, if we don't spend the.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Block, ain't nobody better to spend the block with than
our girl, Jamail Hill.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So Jay was good.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
What is going on? It's such a pleasure to be
here with you all. And by the way, for those
who might be watching the video of this, if you
just see some random men walking.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Behind me, don't worry. Everything's all right.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I'm in my backyard and I'm just getting a little
bit of work that's being done.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I see.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I don't want to get off on the tangent. I
don't want to come in here and getting off on
a tangent. But it just a slight one.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So please, do we are having a Christian Do they
have clothes on? It's my question? They do? Yes, they do?
Speaker 4 (22:17):
They are they all helping us out seat shirt always
trying them side to start something like. These are people
we have hired because we are having currently a bit
of a critter problem in the sense of so something
at our lawn, our front lawn. And even though we
live in Los Angeles, we right, you know, to some foolishness.
(22:38):
So the the the Crypts version of the of the
Crows have got to our front lawn. Right we fight
for all life right now with his wildlife, and they
told a part of our front front lawn because we
think we have like a grub or a worm problem,
so that's what's attracting them, and so we have to
(23:00):
we had to get like sort of a new sprinkler panel,
so maybe we can do us sprinkler sensor so like
every time they step on there, they'll get sprayed and
hopefully this will keep them off. I feel like Bill,
not a science guy. I got animal urine that we
have poured on the front.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
That's kind of lit, though it is.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
You know what's not lit is when you go to
home depot and you ask them where can you find
a coyote piss?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That's what's not like because at all I am I.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Am, I am a black woman from Detroit, Michigan.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What do we know about calote piss? Nothing? Nothing whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
I didn't know anything about this until a few days ago.
So we fight for our lives against these critters, these
thugs that are taking over our yard.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And that's what it is, ladies. So that is why
you see random men that are walking through my backyard.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
But you know what, though, I understand one hundred percent
of what you're going through, just from a different perspective
because in Connecticut we have I don't know if it's
a groundhog. I don't know if it's I don't know
what this animal is, but it's brown and it lives
in a borough and it's in my backyard. And the
thing about it is, it's really gangster like. It does
not give a fuck at all that I live there,
(24:11):
because when I walk him up the backyard, you know,
most critters they run, or they going high, or they
want to get off the way.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
No homie Jes stands there. He just stands there like
I pay, like I pay, like he got half on
the mortgage.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Because he, like you on my territory. I live here too.
Fix Hey, look at you like I wish you would.
I wish you would. Well, y'all know I'm in the country.
I was just about to say the person whose expertise
we really needed this conversation that you show because you
live in the country.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
But I see all kinds of critters like I walk
around with a stick with a hole with something, a
mashetti or something because I don't pay, I don't play.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I know. It's like I'm in the country. So you
probably think that I'm like used to it. No, ma'am, No,
absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
This As you ladies know, this is everything that comes
along with being a homeowner is that you will eventually
it's some new problem that springs up that you're like, wow,
I've never had to deal with that before. I've never
had to purchase coyote piss as part of the regiotor
taking care of my home. But this is where we
are right now. So this is what happens when you solicit.
I solicten to some advice from the internet because I
(25:23):
felt like I wasn't the only one, and resoundingly the
number one suggestion was coyote piss. And I didn't know
that you could purchase animal urin online or in the store.
Had no idea I did either. I was gonna ask
that question. I was just going to say, kyote piss
does what? It keeps the critters away? Yeah, because the
one thing about animals, they don't like to smell other animals,
so it's like they feel like another animal has been there.
(25:46):
So now the next step in this process, as we
go deeper into this rabbit hole of me protected by
your heart, is I also purchased a fake owl and
it has like a rotating head, so that that also
supposedly keeps birds and critters away because they think it's
a real owl. So now we've gotten into the psychological
warfare portion.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Of me getting rid of these animals.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
That's they would have got rid of to Rika too,
because I would have walked on that yard and seen
that owl. Would have been like, Oh, Jamel, I'm gonna
come to the back door.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Well yeah tee, because I was gonna say, Jamel, the
invite you sent us.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
When all this ship is done.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Basically we have as we are totally critter free.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
This is like the third iteration of critters we have
dealt with because we have some squirrels.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That was like, I don't know who squirrels are.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Really, Squirrels are probably the most hood of the animals.
I think of the of the animals that you enco
like they are the Project eight of animals, like they
are are not the project but in the projects like
they are the section eight of like the projects like
it is them.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
They run it thease, no disrespect to my.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Project section eight clost, no disrespect for that. They had
different kind of different kind of breath. The raccoons is
the muscle. The raccoon is the mussel. I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I agree with that I think, y'all, y'all in California,
I know, I know, I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I'm gonna move on after this, but you brought up raccoons,
and it just made me think about back in Hartford
in my old apartment.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I ordered some door dash one time.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I ordered from this Thai restaurant and I had like
this little shwarma that I ordered, and I picked up
my dad going bag and I've seen something run off
the porch, but I wasn't exactually sure, but it was.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I picked up the bag, opened the box.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
This make this damn raccoon literally took the shwarma out
the box. He left the frays, but took the swarm
out the box like I ain't never seen an animal actually.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
The deep.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Like you could have just took you could have creeped
your way through the whole box or anything. He just
took the sharma and bounced like I don't want the
Wow you got that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, that that is audacity.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
That is very He was saying, like your schwarma is
not good Srvard does. It's like your swarma is good enough,
but the prize next time get me a different side.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's what he was really telling you.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He really wanted some rummus or something that that was
not it exactly. It was like, now you know, I
want a rice is what he was telling. Raccoons are
different break all right, y'all. Clearly the direction of the
show is there is no direction of the show. But
you know, it's awesome that we literally were just all
(28:35):
in the same place at the same time moments ago,
because we were all in Las Vegas for the w
NBA Finals. And people may not remember this about Jamille,
but before she was in these streets on other sports
since was definitely holding it down for the w NBA,
one of the few people that were covering the w
NBA from a journalist perspective, and I believe she might
(28:57):
have been covering the league at the same time that
you were playing, Cheryl, And to believe it is an
interesting dynamic is correct, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's a very interesting.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Dynamic because we talk about all the time about how
little coverage there was at that time from a broad angle,
but how often do we have an opportunity to actually
chat with someone who was actually covering the leak at
the same time that one of our legends were playing it.
So I just knew this was a chance for me
to just kind of ask you because I asked Ryl
(29:29):
last week, I'm gonna ask you. Can you imagine Chryl
or Lisa or any of them straight up coming out
the Woolworth the way feeded when you were and havingson
just be like damn. Then, you know, here's the funny
(29:50):
part is that if you get to know them and
knowing sure, like is that something that Serle probably would
have thought and said, I mean, yeah, like now that
I know them now, it's just when the league, where
the league was was so different, Like sure absolutely I
could see her reading somebody from Genesis to Revelations, like
the way that Kathy Engelberg got read. But the thing
(30:14):
is they were the league was in a different place
because it was just starting out. I think it was
a lot more pressure on you all, even though you
probably I know you did. You saw the indignities then,
but you couldn't really speak to them in the same
way because of this is a startup league at that point,
trying to get people attracted to the sport, trying to
(30:36):
make sure the fan support is there, trying to get
it off to a good foot so that the generations
after you didn't have to deal with the things that
you all dealt with.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What I loved about the fact that I covered the WNBA.
This would have been.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Ninety seven and ninety eight, like that first season was
when I covered them. I covered to Charlotte Stain and
so they had Ronda map and Andrea Stenson and Dawn
played for that team. Yeah, what I loved about it
is a tracy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
The home right.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
So to me, those were the ogs right, It's like
and I credit them so often, And Turll's a part
of this as as teaching me the game. It's one
thing to watch, it's another thing to be able to
sit in the company of the people who have done
it and hear their stories, hear their perspective, hear how
they see things, and that's how you wind up learning
(31:28):
as a reporter.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
And they took.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Me under their wing and taught me to lead and
taught me about women's basketball. I mean, I've been watching
as a fan and covering it on and off as
a reporter, but that's when I really learned about what
the game and what the institution of women's basketball really
stood for. And so at the time, don't get it twisted.
The personalities in the w NBA were as fiery, if
not more fiery, than feed Twisted at all. It's just
(31:54):
that the mission was so different because of where the
league was at the time.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
You know, when when I I think about where the
league is today and where we were right, things are
very different because did we have, as Jay said, those
personalities and those attitudes of a listen, what we're not
going to do is yes, But it was very different
because back then for us, it was we were trying
(32:22):
to build something that would hopefully be around for a
long time to come and here we are. But at
the same time, and I think this is why of
all the comments that that Fee said, you know, Kathy
made in their conversation, the one that really pissed me
(32:42):
off was when Kathy said the players should be on
their knees thanking her right. That one really pissed me
off because it took me back to when the league
first started, because then I think a lot of what
we thought back then was even no.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
You know, there were a lot of things and a
lot of shit that we were fighting for, but we
did kind of feel like, we can't really say a
whole lot because we didn't really have a lot of
other options.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Right, it was we're playing in the w we're making
our money here, or we're going overseas. There were a
handful of us that had endorsements, but not like it
is today. So yeah, it was very different back then
than it is today. But today's wood. Don't get it twisted,
because if and when we needed to say something, it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Was going to be said.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
And then also too, I think the other thing that
like you all, you know, kind of had to deal
with is that it's a mentality.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And I'm glad you.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Brought up what she said about that part because see,
the part that people missed about fiends read is that
or I would say Kathy's response is that Kathy said,
the only thing she said was I didn't say that
about Kitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
She didn't say that. She didn't say the rest of that.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
She didn't say that, right, She never said that like oh,
but by the way, the thing about them being grateful
and they should be on their knees. See, she never
she never denied that she said that, even though I
don't believe her about Kitlin Clark. I think the only
reason she addressed that is because that was the biggest
name that was brought up, and she knew that to
get people off of ass that she had to probably
say something like that. But that mentality is something that
(34:30):
is not exclusive to the w NBA. It's a mentality
that is pervasive in women's sports. And what I hope
people understand is that the reason and women's sports we
see is grown. It's getting bigger, It'll be even more
bigger because of the access entry points. I hope people
understand that the reason, a big reason why women's sports
(34:50):
isn't closer or at least at the level of men's sports.
It's not because the product wasn't good. It's not because
the athletes weren't great. It is because of that mentality,
the mentality that you need to just be grateful to
be here. And frankly, as black people, we understand that
mentality better than anybody else because the one thing America
hates is a quote unquote ungrateful Negro hate it and
(35:15):
the reality is that when they think, you know that
they are quote unquote giving us an opportunity, it feel
like they feel as if that gives them license to
disrespect us. And so we're talking about a level of
disrespect here that exists between the lead and the commissioner.
That is beyond just the normal disagreements that you would
(35:37):
have with somebody in that position. That's to be expected.
The commissioner is not there to be the player's friends.
And I think the players are realistic enough to understand that.
But the commissioner can't disrespect them. That's what can't happen.
It's like that means that you think my entire Yeah,
you mean that means you think that my entire work
and existence is beneath you. And yes, we're gonna have
(36:00):
a problem. We're never gonna be on the same page
if that's the case.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
As a commissioner, like I don't I don't want to
be your friend, you know. I don't think any of
the players want to be friends with the commissioner. But
what I do want and expect is for you to
respect me.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I would even go so
far as to say that I don't even think that
because I was having this conversation with a friend of mine,
and I don't even think that. The commissioner didn't say
that about Caitlyn Clark, because if you listen to how
she responded, she said I did not make those comments semantically,
so I think she means those words were not the
(36:40):
words that came out of my mouth. So no I
comments not I didn't have any comments at all about
Kitlin Clark, or I didn't say any of those things
about Caitlyn Clark. So in my mind, she ain't denied
none of you said all that shit. But what I
do find interesting is that what she What I do
find to be interesting is that when you're looking holistically
(37:03):
at a situation, right number one, I think the players
are not getting all the credit that they deserve when
it comes to whether or not they are calling for
her job because they don't understand, or they're calling for
her job because they simply don't care they want to
go on.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The Other part that.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
I think is interesting too, is that, as you alluded to,
even though she is not the friends or should not
be the friends of the players, she absolutely is in
bed with some of the owners and those who sit
on the board of governors, and as long as she
continues to execute what they want her to do, they
don't care if she's not calling players to ask.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
How you feel.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
They don't care if she's not being the first to
figure out if my star player is happy and whatever
she's doing. As long as she is executing all the
business that the board of governors and the owners want
her to execute on, that woman is not losing her
job until she is ready to step down. So that
is genuinely how I feel about it. But what I
mean by that and that the players don't care that.
(38:00):
Part of this conversation also had to do with the
owners getting a percentage of whatever that money is that
they want back. They want their money up front too,
and I think that some people think the players don't
understand that, and I think the players understand full well
that the ownership won't say money upfront. I think they
don't care because at the end of the day, in
order for you to continue to generate money off this product,
(38:22):
the product needs to be taken care of, the product
needs to be paid, the product needs to have great facilities,
the product needs to be put out in forefront, like
that's what investing actually means. And so to me, that's
where I think there is a difference in thought. It's
not that the players don't get it, it's that they're like,
that's cool, but I still won't my month and I
(38:43):
am not mad at them.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I said what I said, but I said what I said,
like for real. But you know what, here's the other thing.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I would say that this is where I might slightly
disagree with you about whether or not Kathy will step down.
I'm not saying that it's something that I see before
these negotiations are done. I think Fie and the players
are smart enough to use the leverage of the moment
against her. And right now, when they have the owners
see the light at the end of the tunnel, they
(39:12):
see an opportunity for them to get that money up front.
I don't think they're going to really take kindly to
somebody ruining that opportunity for them to do that. And
if the commissioner is the one standing in the way
to do that, then I think collectively they might say
this might not be in the best interests of her
to have her as a running point for these negotiations.
And listen, as much as Kathy has fumbled a lot
(39:33):
of moments since she's been commissioner, we a lot. I
do think that a lot, because this is this isn't
this is a culmination, Like people have to understand, this
is not just about a private conversation she had with
seeing this is about the comments that she made when
she was asked on CNBC about the area rees Kaitlinkark
rivalry and the racism, and she basically was like, well,
(39:55):
they just gonna have to take this racism so we
could sell this tickets.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
And it's like what that was? Essentially, let's she said.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And so she's had other mistakes that she has made,
and what I do I do ultimately think all of
these wind up to her showing very loudly that she's
just not the commissioner that is built for this moment
and where this league is going.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
The owners want their money.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And I do think though, in all of this that
has happened, the person who probably has escaped criticism and shitn'
is Adam Silver because Adam Silver put her there, say,
and Adam Silver has overseen you know, a large he's
over I mean he the NBA is the one that's
overseeing the WNBA, and people need to understand how unusual
(40:41):
that relationship is in professional sports. The fact that it's
the NBA picking the commissioner, it's not the players picking
the commissioners, is not even the owners really picking the
commission is like Adam Silver is the one who picked
the commissioner, and so as much as people want to
have smoke for Kathy Engelbert, and she deserves it, they're
smoked to be half.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
For Adam Silver as well. One hundred percent miss misdirected anger.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I've said that a million times, that there's puppeteering happening,
and we are often giving so much smoke to Kathy
and the people who are front facing that we're forgetting
that there is someone behind the scenes that is literally
navigating how these things work. And I and I was shocked,
but not really with the comments that he made, because
(41:27):
comments that he made pretty much affirm that, like we
at this point don't have no interest in doing anything.
They'll work it out, their relationship will work it out,
but we'll get.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
A CBA done.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
That is exactly what is it?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, like they'll figure it, they'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Like it doesn't It doesn't even seem like there's a
true interest from him, which is more furthering the notion
that he needs to catch this fade because he acting
like he don't even care.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But Charlot, I do have a question for you though,
as I are a rumor.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
And when I are your rumors, I don't like to
just be like really, I said, you know, I'm gonna
go to the horse his mouth, because that's what we.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Do on the He said, we'd be like we pull up.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So I heard a rumor that back in the day,
that back in the day, when there was a contract
negotiation or a CBA that needed to be put together,
that you guys basically gave your negotiations to the to
the then president and said, listen here, either you accept
(42:27):
this or we ain't playing. And at the time, the
league could not be like, we can afford for y'all
to not play.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
There's a lad thing that you did. We ain't playing.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
So I want to know if there truth, is there
any truth behind? And I mean, you know, it's been
fifteen years now at this point you might know it's
been a while.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
It's been a while.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
What see, hero, what what like did y'all pull up?
I will say this, So Coquies Washington was like our president.
So was Sonya Henning. But Coquees was like our voice.
She was kind of like the neck up right. And
here's what's so interesting about back then when we were
(43:11):
kind of doing our little CBA negotiations. We had some players, right,
I ain't calling no names, ain't doing anything. We had
some players who were like big name players honestly, who
was like, listen, I'm getting paid, so I don't really
(43:31):
care about all these other ones down here who aren't
getting paid, So I don't want to be a part
of that.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
There were some others of us who was like listen, no,
like right is right and wrong is wrong.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yes, we're getting paid, but what about everybody else? So
there absolutely was a moment where we got together and said, listen,
here's what we want, and take this too. Because it
was president. It wasn't even commission or back then.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
We called out the president and said here's what we want,
and either they're gonna agree to this or they're not.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Now mind you, now, mind you.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What we were asking for was bare minimum compared to
the things they're asking for now. Right, So it wasn't like,
I don't even think we put charter flights in there,
because we knew, like back then, charter flights was not
gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
We weren't even asking for Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We wanted our own rooms, but we were like, okay,
that's not gonna happen. So my point is the things
that we were fighting for and asked for in that,
like the CBA that I can remember, girl, it was
like a piece of cake. It was like real easy.
So like it wasn't like they were gonna be like, nah,
we ain't doing that. But also to your point, he
(44:53):
we were. We were trying to build something. So for
them to come back and say, well, now we're gonna
do that, we just won't play like that just wasn't
very smart. Like the timing of them to be like well, basically,
fuck y'all if you don't play and then you just
don't play right Like, that wasn't gonna happen. That just
wasn't gonna happen. So what I love about where we
(45:16):
are right now and players speaking out, there's a part
of me that's like, because of the momentum and all
the things that's going on with the W right now,
for them to sit out and not play, I'm like, uh,
how does that really hurt the league? But there's another
(45:39):
part of me that's like, oh, hell no, y'all need
to continue to fight from what you deserve and if
they don't give it to you, then you don't play,
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I'm like, honestly, I'm torn. I'm really torn.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
You know, Charlotte was really important you told that story,
you know why, because shows you that even when you
ask for the minimum, they're still not willing to give
you that right.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
And to me, that's worse.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
That's to me, that's worse because it wasn't like what
they're asking for now. Yes, it is more advanced if
you will, because there's more money at stake and they
see the future of the money that's coming. But it
also lets you know that it doesn't matter if you
ask quietly, if it don't matter if you ask for
a little.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
The people that want to.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Sort of stay in opposition to the progress are always
going to stand there whether you ask it for a
lot or a little. See, the thing is, y'all have
already the story of the WNBA is like you guys
have already done that. You've already put the sacrifices in.
You had to share hotel rooms already, you didn't have
charter flights like, you had to go through all of
that for them to get to this moment. And so
(46:53):
for the next moment to come, what's gonna have to
be on the table is yeah, we're willing to blow
all this shit up unless you give us what we want.
Because if you think about the history of progress in
this country, it is never done because somebody thought it
was the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
It's always done by forcing shame, always.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Force and shame, and it's it's the only way things
get accomplished. And so that's why I said, the leverage
of the moment, to me, is the best leverage that
the players have because the owners, now that they see
the money that's possible, and there's even more money as possible,
they don't want to miss out on this moment either.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
They want those valuations to continue to soar.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
They want to they don't want you know, I love
to see I love seeing the news the other day
about how that I think that game we went to
Sunday was the most watched WNBA Finals ever. This is
in the middle of football season. That you know what
I'm saying, it's NFL going on, it's college football. You know,
as much as people are saying, well the players, you know,
(47:56):
you guys don't want to lose this momentum, No, the
owners don't either.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
They got some nervous too. They lose this either. It's
really and that is where I think it is.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
It's helpful that you now I think it's not what
more private owners in it than it is those associated
with the NBA NBA, and I think that's actually helpful
because it will progress and advance things. But now that
FeAs aired it out and we know what the grievouses are,
I think that's also helpful because now the blame she
(48:24):
has firmly shifted all the pressure back on the league.
If y'all don't get this deal done, that's on y'all.
We told y'all what was up. Now it's on you.
And that, to me is the most difficult thing because
I don't exactly see how the w NBA as a
leade can say face in this situation other than by
adapting to what it is that the players are asking
(48:44):
for and finding a way to make it happen. And
they've got to figure out a way to do that
with Kathy, at least for now.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
I don't believe that she's not going to resign after
this negotiation is over. I think that she is personally,
But yeah, the best thing for your image to do
is to write now say I'm not a quitter.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I'm not leaving.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
That's great for the image, but I think that when
this is over, you are absolutely stepping down and somebody
else was going.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
To step in.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
But before I know, you only got a couple minutes
before you got to get out of here. And your estimation,
where do you see this ending in terms of I
know that they're not going to have a negotiation done
by October thirty first. Is it possible that they could
extend the CBA? Absolutely, But like I've personally said, I
think that this will probably play out until February when
(49:30):
free agency comes. I think that is when we will
probably see us really get closer to a solution to this.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
But what do you see like this.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
Actually may be coming to a conclusion, So we are
thinking along the same lines. I've always believed that there
would be a lockout, just because that's just how these
things go. And a lockout, to me, is not scary territory.
It's just kind of what happens whenever there's labor unrest
between players and owners.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
We've seen it in every sport.
Speaker 4 (49:57):
So this is what I think ultimately, and I'm with you,
I don't think that they're going to miss any games
next season. I fully believe that the season will start
on time. Things may be a little rushed, but I
think things are still going to start on time. I
will say this, I don't know that the players are
going to get a fifty to fifty share, but I
think they're going to get something close and because listen,
(50:18):
I've been in enough negotiation, not like between players and owners,
but like just even in my own personal negotiations. I've
been in enough of them to know is that all
you got to do is give a little bit of
what each side wants. We know that the owners really
want the players to stop playing overseas. We know that's
a big thing for them. It's like they want to
protect the product. They don't want the product exposed. They
(50:38):
want them to stop. Okay, the price of doing business
is you got to give more money. More money I
always thought the players would get. But it's just a
difference between are we talking to twenty percent rap share?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Are we talking to thirty? Are we talking to forty?
Speaker 4 (50:51):
I think they're going to try to get it as
close to fifty percent as possible.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I don't think it'll quite make it there.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Because I'm not sure yet if the money is all
the way there to do that. But I think they'll
get more and I think they'll get merch sales, and
the big thing to me, I think they will get
a pension. And I think if you can get like,
let's say you can get between I'm gonna say thirty five.
If you can get between thirty five or forty percent
(51:15):
of the red shale merchant the rep share, merch sales,
and a pension, I think that's a major win, major win.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
What about you, Cheryl?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
The pension is huge for a lot, a lot, a
lot of reasons. I am on the same page with
both of you on that. I have a question for
Jay before she goes. I know both of both of
you tend to think that Cassie will step down after negotiations.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
My question is, why does it have to be after negotiations?
Speaker 4 (51:52):
See cheryld You know what, That's a great question, And
to be honest, I go back and forth about that
because I don't personally, I don't think there's any problem
with her stepping down tomorrow, Like there's nothing to stop that,
and I don't think it and honestly, I think it
would actually advance negotiations further if she did. And that's
the part I need Adam Silver to take a look
(52:14):
at and say, is this person going to help us
get closer to the goal or are they going to
help us move further away? And it feels like she's
moving y'all further away. So what's her what's the point
of her being there? She's not getting you closer and
the players have lost respect for her and they don't
want to talk to her. What is the point of
her being there? She's not serving a function? And I
think the owners if you are thinking about this too.
(52:35):
You brought up Adam Silver's phone like, hey, man, I
know you got this whole Kawhi Leonard situation to deal with,
but I'm gonna need you to put you on it.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Right, Okay. I need you to do that because it's true.
It's like yo, it's like I think that's.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
My thing is when you get to a point to
where you like again, I'm not I don't care for friends,
but when you get to a point to where there's
no respect, they're one.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I don't trust you as a commissioner.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I don't trust you, I don't respect you, and you
clearly don't respect me as a player. I just feel
like that makes the negotiations harder.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, because then they're going to be
more unwilling to compromise with her. And so just because
they don't trust her, like you said, and they lost
the respect, So it's just kind of hard to even
get that going.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
But yeah, like, I don't think it's.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
A big I don't think it all sets negotiation back
if she if she leaves beforehand, because I think that's
been sort of the perception that like, oh, well, they've
started the talks and she's got to be involved. Why
didn't have to be to pick up that ball? She
definitely could, Like I think she's going to wait until after.
But but honestly, my rationale for after is because Pridie,
(53:54):
like you you said it, You said it right to Pridie,
like she just strikes me as the individ that wants
to prove something that she doesn't necessarily but I did,
and she wants She already feels that she has done
so much for the league that y'all should be on
your knees excited and begging and thanking her for the
media deals. So if she already feels that way that
(54:16):
you guys should be thanking her. In my mind, priorate
ego will not allow her to step down and say, Okay, obviously,
my presence isn't what's benefiting these women or this league
that I care to care for that I say I
care for. So I think that is what is going
to force her to continue to remain here, and all
the more reason why to your point, J, these negotiations
that probably could happen a little bit faster if she
(54:37):
moved out the way, will probably end up being done
in like end of January.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Early February. Oh you know.
Speaker 4 (54:44):
The other part of it too, is like it's not
just her needing to save a little face. I think
it's the NBA as well, and there's a certain way
they like to do things, and for them, it's a
much clearer exit if it happens after negotiations, they can
have a new commissioner and they can kind of do
things in a orderly fashion.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
So I think that's the other factor as.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
Well, is like how Adam Sandler or have center Adam
Silver wants to do this. Definitely know, definitely, definitely matters absolutely,
which as always we always love having you on the show.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
And you know what, honestly, if Adam f was this
ship my look alone, right, it.
Speaker 4 (55:23):
Would be a happy Gilmore three, that's for sure. A players, yes,
A players, but yes, you know, I always like kicking
it with y'all, and I thank you for making me
your first sort of recurring guest.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But y'all know, y'all welcome to ring me anytime.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
I'm always available, and more importantly, when either of both
of y'all come to l A, you know you're welcome
to come here and kick it in the backyard.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I am for sure, just.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Don't make me in the direction that I'm going to others.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
And ship taken care of the first, Yeah, definitely, I will.
Speaker 5 (56:01):
All right, thank you Jane.
Speaker 4 (56:19):
When I tell you that if it wasn't for the
fact that we had shit to do, we probably would.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Still be talking to you right now. Fact, because that's
just that's just the homie, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
And she not wrong when she talked about you know
how the w NBA needs to figure out how to
handle moving forward what that might look like, including maybe
parting ways with Kathy Kelbart sooner than before these negotiations
are over. So I think you guys are spot on
when you talk about how that could benefit the league.
So at any rate, you know, every day there's a
(56:53):
new headline about what's gonna happen next, Who's doing what,
who said what. Now you're finding out that the owners
aren't necessarily happy with the communication style of the current commissioner.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
There's just a lot to unpack.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
And I feel like I feel like we're gonna be
talking about this for for at least another three moments.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Without question, and let's just hope we're talking about some
good things coming out of the CBA. But you know,
to your point, we could sit here and talk to
Jamail all day. Here's what I need. I appreciate the invite,
but since I ain't coming over to you, get them
damn rodents and ship whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
You guys can get that fixed.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
She killed me with that owl, turned around in the
middle of it. Let me walk past.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
I'll start, ma'am and yeah, no, no, no, we good.
She don't love you, Jay, I love.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
You, but j No, I'm from We shoot first.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
We don't have to meet at a at a mutual,
mutually agreed upon location.
Speaker 3 (57:57):
I shoot first, Jay, y'all, I'm gonna get fucked up
with me.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
I'm so thorgh.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Sorry, sorry, Oh my gosh, what a great conversation.
Speaker 4 (58:10):
Oh my god, such a great conversation. Well anyway, let's
just go ahead, and I know you got some good
for us today, Cheryl, So let's go ahead and level
this thing on out.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
I do, I think I do.
Speaker 1 (58:21):
Listen, let's just get right to it, because it hit
me today and I loved it. It says, be her,
the woman who knows the grass is greener wherever she stands,
because she brings value to every space she is in.
(58:41):
That is a message for every woman in the WNBA,
every one of them, and that I think that's probably
why it hit me and I love just the first
two words, be her.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Be her, that's it, that's it. Be her. Period.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
Well, guys, that will do it for this week's episode
of Levels to this. We just continue to appreciate the
way that you guys continue to support us when we're
out and about. People are always coming up to me
and coming up to show and just talking about how
much they love the show, how much they appreciate the
conversations that we're having what we're doing. So continue to
(59:21):
follow us and listen to us. But remember this is
not just our show. It is our show, so we
need you to link up with us by either sending
us an email at Levels to This Podcast at gmail dot.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Com, or follow us on social.
Speaker 4 (59:35):
Media at LTTPOD on Instagram.
Speaker 5 (59:38):
We be looking.
Speaker 4 (59:40):
Make sure you leave a reviewer a comment on Apple
Podcasts because I'll be reading the comments. I'll be reading
every last one of them comments. I need to do better,
but I'll be reading the comments. But we want to
hear what you want to hear, what you want to
talk about. Share that with us. But until next time, friends,
keep your mentors ground level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Me listen to Levels to This on America's number one
podcast network, iHeart.
Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Open your free
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
iHeart app and search Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops
and Treka Foster Brasbee and start listening
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, everybody, it's your Girl's Rika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
What's up, y'all? It's your girl, Cheryl Swoops And this
is a levels to this.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
This is the show where we talk about the various
levels of shit that women go through, and recently we've
been talking about the various levels of shit that everybody
going through because it's been that kind of a month
for real. But first and foremost, before we get into
our surface level conversation, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Cheryl, Hey bo, howell you.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I got something on my mind. Oh honey, get it
all mine, Get it off.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The place I needs to get it off.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Get it off all right.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So the other day I recorded an episode with Jordan Robinson,
and you know, we talked about various things, the finals
and just stuff, right wnba stuff, And Jordan informed me
(01:20):
that game one of this year's finals ranked second only
behind the nineteen ninety seven finals.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So you're laughing because you know where I'm going.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I do.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
But let me just educate the people out there for
a second, so that nineteen ninety seven finals would have
been the New York Liberty versus.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
The one the only Houston comic m right.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, okay, So Jordan said that to me, and you know,
my petty ass, I had to get a little pettiness
in there.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Of course, you did.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I want to get what do you think? I said?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I that y'all was the shit, And it don't make
no difference pretty much. But here's what I here's what
I actually said. Because you know, the talk today is, well,
no one watched the WNBA back in the day.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So when Jordan told me that, I was petty, and
I said.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Oh so you mean people really did watch back there?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That was petty, but I thought it was funny, it
was cute.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yes, So we had a laugh.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We had that conversation, and then we go on to
talk about whatever we were going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now here's the good part.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So I wake up this morning and you know, I'm
going social media since and I see a headline that
says this isn't word for word, but it basically says,
Cheryl Swoops gets petty talking about the w n b
(03:14):
A Finals viewership or something like that, and this was
on SI dot com.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So usually t I'm like, are you sure a real
person wrote it?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, A I write this stuff. But it was a
whole lot of you know, just different topics. So well
maybe he did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Have a I write it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Not that I care, but I was like, first of all,
I know what I said, but I just had to
go look and you know, see, so I'm reading all
the things and then it gets down to you know
what I just told you I.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Said, which to me was funny, it was cute. Yeah,
it was petty.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But this person, this person by the name of Grant Young,
because I looked him up.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Oh uh huh, he says.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Cheryl Swoops gets petty by saying, oh, well, people really
did watch back then.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But here's what he said, Gray.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
He tried to come for me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And said, but she only played five minutes and had
zero points.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Here's the part I need mister Grant Young to know
and understand.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
First of all, buddy, you clearly just started watching even
if you watch, even if you watch, But what you don't,
what you didn't.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Put in that article.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yep, is this that Finals championship game was on August
the thirtieth. Cheryl Swoops gave birth to her son on
June the twenty fifth of that same year. So the
fact that I was even able to get out on
the floor and play, I don't care if it was
(05:02):
thirty seconds, but to play five.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Minutes two months after giving birth, what have you done?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Could never do it, could literally never do it ever,
never ever ever, never ever ever. So I just needed
to just get that off my chest because I was like, oh,
that's cute.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I did play.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Five minutes, didn't score, but you know what, I did
get a championship.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I don't care how many minutes I played. Ask the aces,
the players who did. Ask Kid Stokes if she cares
how many minutes she played, because she walked off with
another Ryan, another.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
One, another one, and another one.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, So like, don't try to be like, oh, well,
she talking about they did watch back then, but she
only played five minutes and did and guess what.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Though, the point still remains that it was the number
one viewed w NBA finals, so people still watched watchin
So people need to just let this narrative go that
folks only started tuning in right now, I used to
say the same thing about Vivian Stringer. People used to
get on my nerves talk about folks saying watching college
(06:12):
and I was like, do.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Y'all not know how many arenas that that black woman
pecked out? Oh my gosh, come on, do you like
you know even for me?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Since you brought Vivian Stringer up right, because I remember
people talking about, you know, Iowa making it to the
final four and it was like the first time. I
was like, no, no, no, no, because I was there
in nineteen ninety three when coach Vivian C. Stringer took
Iowa to the final four.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Sure did, and I remember I am good friends with one,
said Felicia hall Allen.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Who played at IOWA at that time.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
But you know it is people who just started watching yesterday.
They don't understand the game. Yeah you know, yeah, it's
okay cool. I just think you for letting me get
that off.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'm glad you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm glad you got that off. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
And you know what, And the funny thing is because
I don't know if he thought he was like doing
something or saying something when he was like she gets petty.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I told Jordan, I was gonna be petty. I needed
to be petty.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And that's moment, folks don't ever listen. Listen, listen.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I need people to understand because something similar happened to
me last week.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right, so last.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Somebody say you didn't know none about basketball?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh girl, somebody I get that.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Every other day somebody told me I don't know about basketball,
but this this particular person. So I don't think I
told you all this because it was funny, but this
my way, Chris, Chris Williamson made a tweet about mad Gufson.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Said, because the day that Asia hit that shot.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
She was saying, she was sitting in the corner with
the ball.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Now we all she was in a shooter.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Ready, do you hear me? Ready?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
She was the ship if you weren't about to get
that ball, but she was ready.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
You knew Asia wann't for to give you that ball,
but you know what, you better be ready.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Now we are good that the actual concept of what
she was doing.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yes, Chris made a joke and said, Meg is hilarious
for this with the picture. And when I saw the tweet,
I thought that the way Chris captioned it was hilarious.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So I retweeted, So I retweeted Chris.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And I said a fool because I'm talking about him
like this catch is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Do you know how many people retweeted that tweet talking
about Tarika is calling Meg Govsenson a fool and tagging
Asia talking about is this?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Are you okay with medium members? Are you nah?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I know, age Doppy?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Are you okay with media members calling your teammate out
her name?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Fool? So here I go.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I said, I'm gonna let y'all know something about black
people lingo. When people say something silly, funny things like that,
we tend to say you're a fool. I shortened it
and just said a fool. I was not talking about Meg.
I was talking about Chris. And then that's where everybody
was like, girl, we understood. If the folks didn't get it,
(09:35):
then they just didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
That's on them, because you ain't got to explain none
of that none. As matter of fact, I don't even
know if you put the l on it. It's just
a fool, A fool, yeah, not a fool. You are
you are a fool, fool crazy, But that's social media
for you. It is it is. It is so for
you to make that the headline and call me Patty Boo.
(09:58):
You ain't do nothing.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
At did none, but just so made me laugh at
your ass because I really did just laugh, just laugh.
But since since we're talking about the finals though, I mean,
congratulations to the Las Vegas Aces for the sweep.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You know what's crazy.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
I saw you more in the last two weeks than
I have in the last three months, and I still
didn't really get the link up with you in Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, phisis was a little different for me.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Sis.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I just I went to the game and I.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Saw you and then I did Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
But you know, they kept talking about like all this
rain is coming and the weather was gonna get bad.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh it did rain.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I was like, let me go to my room and
I ain't gonna lie to you. You know, be outside,
you don't. I was so excited that the game finished
early that.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I could go get in my Really, I was like, yeah, sleep, slap.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I did not go to sleep. Immediately.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I looked over to the sideline, I saw you, and
then I didn't, and I was like, damn sure, going already?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Cow.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
That was crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I stayed long enough to hear the booze and the things.
I'm sorry that was petty too.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Let he go on new headline sure references the booze
of Kathy, of Kathy Engelbert. Oh what's crazy about that
is I was literally standing less than six feet away
from Kathy and couldn't hear a thing she said, Like
if I just didn't know the routine. I know, Holly Hair,
(11:32):
I know the mic is Finna. I know Kathy Finna,
get on the mic and give the trophy to the owner.
I know that's what's gonna happen. But I couldn't hear
a word. And that was only one video I posted
on Twitter. I ain't even post the other one. The
other video was when she was getting ready to introduce Asia.
Them booz were so loud. Asia didn't even hear her name, Like.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Asia, grab that trophy so quick, like I don't want
to be a part of this.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Quiz me my trophy and let me move, move, move.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Aside, and I'm outside and out.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
But I am incredibly happy for the Las Vegas Aces.
I'm glad that they capped off their season and the
way that they did. I'm surprised that Phoenix didn't win
a game. I really thought that they could win a
game at at least.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
One at home.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, you know, I was like so excited for it
to for the first time we had a seven game series.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I was like, Oh, this is gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I did not. I didn't have a sweep on my
Bingo cart.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I really thought.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
They were gonna get at least especially the way they
came out in Game one at Vegas and pretty much
had it won.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Oh this is about to be a series. Series.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That was the one for me, Like that was the
one that made me realize, like this could go very differently.
I had aces and six that was my predictionation and
six and that. I thought after that, well, this might
be aces and five because that was your one, Like
you can steal that one at home and then you
got another one. So why when they didn't close that,
(13:12):
I was like, dang, this might be aces in five.
But I know Phoenix, right, professional women, they are going
to win one yep, yep at home, yep.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You know the thing that I hate.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
There was a lot of things I really enjoyed about
the finals. There were things I didn't like about the finals.
There's always the what ifs. Right, So in the Phoenix
Link series, there's the what if he doesn't get hurt?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Does Phoenix still win?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Do they not?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You know this series when Satu went out with a concussion,
in which you know, prayers to her, hope she's doing
much better, But there's always the question mark of if
Satu plays in game four, do they win Game four?
I don't know, but you know what I do know,
(14:01):
Asia Wilson, is.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
That be period unstoppable, un stoppable You just not it
ain't none you can do it. She's good, it's she's
I just want to say that she should. She plays
very good basketball.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
She's a very good basketball. It's a very good.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But let me give just a few flowers to some
other people.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Sure, Melissa Smith has got to be one of the
happiest players right now to be able to go from
worse to first.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
From Indy to Dallas to the to the to the championship.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
To the champions and such a great brilliant move by
Nikki Calwell, Becky him, whoever said let's do this, because
she was that one of those pieces that I felt
they needed right because she could give them something offensively, defensively,
(15:03):
she was giving.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Them what they needed readbound in the ball. She was one.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Here's the other thing I want to say, whenever, whoever, however,
whatever any other evers you could think of, said we
need to have Dana Evans in this rotation for real,
chef's kiss, because Dana Evans, especially in Game two at home,
(15:29):
remember the Dana Evans jewel Lloyd both of them like
came out and said, oh, okay, we we really not
new to this.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Oh that was game one. Yeah, they they gave you
game one. Yeah, that was game one. Game two was
when Asia went off for sixty point trying Jackie.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I loved because even when in the beginning Dana
wasn't getting that much run. Yeah, Dana Evans showed and
proved why she deserves to not only be in this league,
but she deserves to be playing. Yeah, and that was
such a great move. And of course we can talk
(16:04):
about Chelsea, we can talk about Jackie. We already talked
about Asia. Like this team just started clicking at the
right moment. And when it's playoff basketball, you want to
be going into the playoffs playing individually playing your best,
but as a team playing.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Your best basketball.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
YEP, and the Aces just hit that stride at the
right time. And I don't care who they would have
faced in the playoffs. In the finals, it was gonna
be really hard to beat this team.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Really hard, really hard. I mean again, I'm gonna give
love to Phoenix on.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
The Phoenix side, because they were a team who truly
overachieved in the essence of people did not expect to
see y'all in the finals, right like people did not
expect to see Phoenix in the finals. From you look
at the beginning of the year, because you literally only
had two players returned from last season. You had a
(17:05):
bevy of injuries in the beginning where at one time
Kyle wasn't playing, At one time Alyssa wasn't played, and
you had SI two and come back, So like.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
You then you have worries about who was going to
hold it down.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Then you guys got dB mid season, as you know,
off waivers, and a lot happened over the course of
this year where you would say to yourself, like, for
a team that literally had never played together before, like
y'all did very very well.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So by that standard, I.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Think that they definitely hit an achievement level that folks
did not expect them to have this particular year. But
when you get Asia playing away, she's playing motivating the
people that she motivates on her team, and then Jackie
Young remembers the beast that she is and starts dropping
twenty eight thirty on you. You like, literally, there's there's nothing
(18:01):
you can do about it. And Indiana to me, gave
them the best run for their money to try, you know,
but at the end of the day, and that's you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Know, separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
But that's just because I think of all people in
the league, nobody guards Asia like Aliah Boston, and it
makes sense. They come from the same program, in the
same coaching styles, so it makes sense that that would
be the one to give you trouble. But you just
can't do nothing with Asia.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You can't. And that's just it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And t to your point, you know, the beginning of
the season, when I saw just all the different free
agency moves, saw what Phoenix did just with at and Satu,
I was like, Okay, I can see this team won
obviously winning more games and making some noise, but I
even even in saying that, I felt like they were
(18:52):
missing a couple of pieces, right, And if I'm Phoenix
and Nate Tibbots right now, my number one goal in
this offseason is to go find me a true four
four or five four that can score the basketball and
(19:13):
that can defend. Because Natasha Max, she gave you everything
she could give you. She she's a defender, right, yeah,
but when you ask her to come in and defend
and have to defend Asia Wilson like, that's a tough
task for anybody. And the other side of that is
you have Colanie Brown who didn't really play a whole
lot of minutes, and then in Game four you're saying, Kline,
(19:35):
go guard Asia right.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
From a physical standpoint, can she do it?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, But that's also putting my opinion, that's putting Kilanie
in a very unfair position right when she hasn't really
played that much. So I think they need to get
another scorer on the perimeter as well as go find
a true power forward that can score the ball, that
(20:02):
can defend, and who knows says could be different for
him next year.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Well, we will see what will happen for them next
year and every other team, because it ain't about Fox.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
People who ain't an unrestricted free agent.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So guarantee ah and fingers crossed, we have you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Who knows what that's gonna look like.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
But girl, the funny thing is is that while you
and I were in Las Vegas, we linked up with
our girl.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Jamail Hill.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And Jamel is just such a doll like I love Jamel.
She just it's never gonna be nobody like her, and
so I'm excited that while we were there we got
a chance to catch up with her and we had
a conversation about a lot, But we definitely took a
deep dive into next season what it could potentially look like,
(20:55):
the CBA and the press conference that Kathy gave ahead
of the start of the w NBA Finals and.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
All of the things that come along with that.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
So let's go ahead and dive into this conversation with
my girl Jamail and take this to the next level.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
All right, guys, So let me tell you how.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Excited I am about today because this is the first
time since RL and I have had this show that
we have had a guest for a second time.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
So in my mind, if we don't spend the.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Block, ain't nobody better to spend the block with than
our girl, Jamail Hill.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So Jay was good.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
What is going on? It's such a pleasure to be
here with you all. And by the way, for those
who might be watching the video of this, if you
just see some random men walking.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Behind me, don't worry. Everything's all right.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I'm in my backyard and I'm just getting a little
bit of work that's being done.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I see.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I don't want to get off on the tangent. I
don't want to come in here and getting off on
a tangent. But it just a slight one.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So please, do we are having a Christian Do they
have clothes on? It's my question? They do? Yes, they do?
Speaker 4 (22:17):
They are they all helping us out seat shirt always
trying them side to start something like. These are people
we have hired because we are having currently a bit
of a critter problem in the sense of so something
at our lawn, our front lawn. And even though we
live in Los Angeles, we right, you know, to some foolishness.
(22:38):
So the the the Crypts version of the of the
Crows have got to our front lawn. Right we fight
for all life right now with his wildlife, and they
told a part of our front front lawn because we
think we have like a grub or a worm problem,
so that's what's attracting them, and so we have to
(23:00):
we had to get like sort of a new sprinkler panel,
so maybe we can do us sprinkler sensor so like
every time they step on there, they'll get sprayed and
hopefully this will keep them off. I feel like Bill,
not a science guy. I got animal urine that we
have poured on the front.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
That's kind of lit, though it is.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
You know what's not lit is when you go to
home depot and you ask them where can you find
a coyote piss?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That's what's not like because at all I am I.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Am, I am a black woman from Detroit, Michigan.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What do we know about calote piss? Nothing? Nothing whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
I didn't know anything about this until a few days ago.
So we fight for our lives against these critters, these
thugs that are taking over our yard.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And that's what it is, ladies. So that is why
you see random men that are walking through my backyard.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
But you know what, though, I understand one hundred percent
of what you're going through, just from a different perspective
because in Connecticut we have I don't know if it's
a groundhog. I don't know if it's I don't know
what this animal is, but it's brown and it lives
in a borough and it's in my backyard. And the
thing about it is, it's really gangster like. It does
not give a fuck at all that I live there,
(24:11):
because when I walk him up the backyard, you know,
most critters they run, or they going high, or they
want to get off the way.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
No homie Jes stands there. He just stands there like
I pay, like I pay, like he got half on
the mortgage.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Because he, like you on my territory. I live here too.
Fix Hey, look at you like I wish you would.
I wish you would. Well, y'all know I'm in the country.
I was just about to say the person whose expertise
we really needed this conversation that you show because you
live in the country.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
But I see all kinds of critters like I walk
around with a stick with a hole with something, a
mashetti or something because I don't pay, I don't play.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I know. It's like I'm in the country. So you
probably think that I'm like used to it. No, ma'am, No,
absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
This As you ladies know, this is everything that comes
along with being a homeowner is that you will eventually
it's some new problem that springs up that you're like, wow,
I've never had to deal with that before. I've never
had to purchase coyote piss as part of the regiotor
taking care of my home. But this is where we
are right now. So this is what happens when you solicit.
I solicten to some advice from the internet because I
(25:23):
felt like I wasn't the only one, and resoundingly the
number one suggestion was coyote piss. And I didn't know
that you could purchase animal urin online or in the store.
Had no idea I did either. I was gonna ask
that question. I was just going to say, kyote piss
does what? It keeps the critters away? Yeah, because the
one thing about animals, they don't like to smell other animals,
so it's like they feel like another animal has been there.
(25:46):
So now the next step in this process, as we
go deeper into this rabbit hole of me protected by
your heart, is I also purchased a fake owl and
it has like a rotating head, so that that also
supposedly keeps birds and critters away because they think it's
a real owl. So now we've gotten into the psychological
warfare portion.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Of me getting rid of these animals.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
That's they would have got rid of to Rika too,
because I would have walked on that yard and seen
that owl. Would have been like, Oh, Jamel, I'm gonna
come to the back door.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Well yeah tee, because I was gonna say, Jamel, the
invite you sent us.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
When all this ship is done.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Basically we have as we are totally critter free.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
This is like the third iteration of critters we have
dealt with because we have some squirrels.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That was like, I don't know who squirrels are.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Really, Squirrels are probably the most hood of the animals.
I think of the of the animals that you enco
like they are the Project eight of animals, like they
are are not the project but in the projects like
they are the section eight of like the projects like
it is them.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
They run it thease, no disrespect to my.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Project section eight clost, no disrespect for that. They had
different kind of different kind of breath. The raccoons is
the muscle. The raccoon is the mussel. I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I agree with that I think, y'all, y'all in California,
I know, I know, I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I'm gonna move on after this, but you brought up raccoons,
and it just made me think about back in Hartford
in my old apartment.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I ordered some door dash one time.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I ordered from this Thai restaurant and I had like
this little shwarma that I ordered, and I picked up
my dad going bag and I've seen something run off
the porch, but I wasn't exactually sure, but it was.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I picked up the bag, opened the box.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
This make this damn raccoon literally took the shwarma out
the box. He left the frays, but took the swarm
out the box like I ain't never seen an animal actually.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
The deep.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Like you could have just took you could have creeped
your way through the whole box or anything. He just
took the sharma and bounced like I don't want the
Wow you got that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, that that is audacity.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
That is very He was saying, like your schwarma is
not good Srvard does. It's like your swarma is good enough,
but the prize next time get me a different side.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's what he was really telling you.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He really wanted some rummus or something that that was
not it exactly. It was like, now you know, I
want a rice is what he was telling. Raccoons are
different break all right, y'all. Clearly the direction of the
show is there is no direction of the show. But
you know, it's awesome that we literally were just all
(28:35):
in the same place at the same time moments ago,
because we were all in Las Vegas for the w
NBA Finals. And people may not remember this about Jamille,
but before she was in these streets on other sports
since was definitely holding it down for the w NBA,
one of the few people that were covering the w
NBA from a journalist perspective, and I believe she might
(28:57):
have been covering the league at the same time that
you were playing, Cheryl, And to believe it is an
interesting dynamic is correct, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's a very interesting.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Dynamic because we talk about all the time about how
little coverage there was at that time from a broad angle,
but how often do we have an opportunity to actually
chat with someone who was actually covering the leak at
the same time that one of our legends were playing it.
So I just knew this was a chance for me
to just kind of ask you because I asked Ryl
(29:29):
last week, I'm gonna ask you. Can you imagine Chryl
or Lisa or any of them straight up coming out
the Woolworth the way feeded when you were and havingson
just be like damn. Then, you know, here's the funny
(29:50):
part is that if you get to know them and
knowing sure, like is that something that Serle probably would
have thought and said, I mean, yeah, like now that
I know them now, it's just when the league, where
the league was was so different, Like sure absolutely I
could see her reading somebody from Genesis to Revelations, like
the way that Kathy Engelberg got read. But the thing
(30:14):
is they were the league was in a different place
because it was just starting out. I think it was
a lot more pressure on you all, even though you
probably I know you did. You saw the indignities then,
but you couldn't really speak to them in the same
way because of this is a startup league at that point,
trying to get people attracted to the sport, trying to
(30:36):
make sure the fan support is there, trying to get
it off to a good foot so that the generations
after you didn't have to deal with the things that
you all dealt with.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What I loved about the fact that I covered the WNBA.
This would have been.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Ninety seven and ninety eight, like that first season was
when I covered them. I covered to Charlotte Stain and
so they had Ronda map and Andrea Stenson and Dawn
played for that team. Yeah, what I loved about it
is a tracy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
The home right.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
So to me, those were the ogs right, It's like
and I credit them so often, And Turll's a part
of this as as teaching me the game. It's one
thing to watch, it's another thing to be able to
sit in the company of the people who have done
it and hear their stories, hear their perspective, hear how
they see things, and that's how you wind up learning
(31:28):
as a reporter.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
And they took.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Me under their wing and taught me to lead and
taught me about women's basketball. I mean, I've been watching
as a fan and covering it on and off as
a reporter, but that's when I really learned about what
the game and what the institution of women's basketball really
stood for. And so at the time, don't get it twisted.
The personalities in the w NBA were as fiery, if
not more fiery, than feed Twisted at all. It's just
(31:54):
that the mission was so different because of where the
league was at the time.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
You know, when when I I think about where the
league is today and where we were right, things are
very different because did we have, as Jay said, those
personalities and those attitudes of a listen, what we're not
going to do is yes, But it was very different
because back then for us, it was we were trying
(32:22):
to build something that would hopefully be around for a
long time to come and here we are. But at
the same time, and I think this is why of
all the comments that that Fee said, you know, Kathy
made in their conversation, the one that really pissed me
(32:42):
off was when Kathy said the players should be on
their knees thanking her right. That one really pissed me
off because it took me back to when the league
first started, because then I think a lot of what
we thought back then was even no.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
You know, there were a lot of things and a
lot of shit that we were fighting for, but we
did kind of feel like, we can't really say a
whole lot because we didn't really have a lot of
other options.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Right, it was we're playing in the w we're making
our money here, or we're going overseas. There were a
handful of us that had endorsements, but not like it
is today. So yeah, it was very different back then
than it is today. But today's wood. Don't get it twisted,
because if and when we needed to say something, it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Was going to be said.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
And then also too, I think the other thing that
like you all, you know, kind of had to deal
with is that it's a mentality.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And I'm glad you.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Brought up what she said about that part because see,
the part that people missed about fiends read is that
or I would say Kathy's response is that Kathy said,
the only thing she said was I didn't say that
about Kitlyn Clark.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
She didn't say that. She didn't say the rest of that.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
She didn't say that, right, She never said that like oh,
but by the way, the thing about them being grateful
and they should be on their knees. See, she never
she never denied that she said that, even though I
don't believe her about Kitlin Clark. I think the only
reason she addressed that is because that was the biggest
name that was brought up, and she knew that to
get people off of ass that she had to probably
say something like that. But that mentality is something that
(34:30):
is not exclusive to the w NBA. It's a mentality
that is pervasive in women's sports. And what I hope
people understand is that the reason and women's sports we
see is grown. It's getting bigger, It'll be even more
bigger because of the access entry points. I hope people
understand that the reason, a big reason why women's sports
(34:50):
isn't closer or at least at the level of men's sports.
It's not because the product wasn't good. It's not because
the athletes weren't great. It is because of that mentality,
the mentality that you need to just be grateful to
be here. And frankly, as black people, we understand that
mentality better than anybody else because the one thing America
hates is a quote unquote ungrateful Negro hate it and
(35:15):
the reality is that when they think, you know that
they are quote unquote giving us an opportunity, it feel
like they feel as if that gives them license to
disrespect us. And so we're talking about a level of
disrespect here that exists between the lead and the commissioner.
That is beyond just the normal disagreements that you would
(35:37):
have with somebody in that position. That's to be expected.
The commissioner is not there to be the player's friends.
And I think the players are realistic enough to understand that.
But the commissioner can't disrespect them. That's what can't happen.
It's like that means that you think my entire Yeah,
you mean that means you think that my entire work
and existence is beneath you. And yes, we're gonna have
(36:00):
a problem. We're never gonna be on the same page
if that's the case.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
As a commissioner, like I don't I don't want to
be your friend, you know. I don't think any of
the players want to be friends with the commissioner. But
what I do want and expect is for you to
respect me.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I would even go so
far as to say that I don't even think that
because I was having this conversation with a friend of mine,
and I don't even think that. The commissioner didn't say
that about Caitlyn Clark, because if you listen to how
she responded, she said I did not make those comments semantically,
so I think she means those words were not the
(36:40):
words that came out of my mouth. So no I
comments not I didn't have any comments at all about
Kitlin Clark, or I didn't say any of those things
about Caitlyn Clark. So in my mind, she ain't denied
none of you said all that shit. But what I
do find interesting is that what she What I do
find to be interesting is that when you're looking holistically
(37:03):
at a situation, right number one, I think the players
are not getting all the credit that they deserve when
it comes to whether or not they are calling for
her job because they don't understand, or they're calling for
her job because they simply don't care they want to
go on.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The Other part that.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
I think is interesting too, is that, as you alluded to,
even though she is not the friends or should not
be the friends of the players, she absolutely is in
bed with some of the owners and those who sit
on the board of governors, and as long as she
continues to execute what they want her to do, they
don't care if she's not calling players to ask.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
How you feel.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
They don't care if she's not being the first to
figure out if my star player is happy and whatever
she's doing. As long as she is executing all the
business that the board of governors and the owners want
her to execute on, that woman is not losing her
job until she is ready to step down. So that
is genuinely how I feel about it. But what I
mean by that and that the players don't care that.
(38:00):
Part of this conversation also had to do with the
owners getting a percentage of whatever that money is that
they want back. They want their money up front too,
and I think that some people think the players don't
understand that, and I think the players understand full well
that the ownership won't say money upfront. I think they
don't care because at the end of the day, in
order for you to continue to generate money off this product,
(38:22):
the product needs to be taken care of, the product
needs to be paid, the product needs to have great facilities,
the product needs to be put out in forefront, like
that's what investing actually means. And so to me, that's
where I think there is a difference in thought. It's
not that the players don't get it, it's that they're like,
that's cool, but I still won't my month and I
(38:43):
am not mad at them.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I said what I said, but I said what I said,
like for real. But you know what, here's the other thing.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I would say that this is where I might slightly
disagree with you about whether or not Kathy will step down.
I'm not saying that it's something that I see before
these negotiations are done. I think Fie and the players
are smart enough to use the leverage of the moment
against her. And right now, when they have the owners
see the light at the end of the tunnel, they
(39:12):
see an opportunity for them to get that money up front.
I don't think they're going to really take kindly to
somebody ruining that opportunity for them to do that. And
if the commissioner is the one standing in the way
to do that, then I think collectively they might say
this might not be in the best interests of her
to have her as a running point for these negotiations.
And listen, as much as Kathy has fumbled a lot
(39:33):
of moments since she's been commissioner, we a lot. I
do think that a lot, because this is this isn't
this is a culmination, Like people have to understand, this
is not just about a private conversation she had with
seeing this is about the comments that she made when
she was asked on CNBC about the area rees Kaitlinkark
rivalry and the racism, and she basically was like, well,
(39:55):
they just gonna have to take this racism so we
could sell this tickets.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
And it's like what that was? Essentially, let's she said.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And so she's had other mistakes that she has made,
and what I do I do ultimately think all of
these wind up to her showing very loudly that she's
just not the commissioner that is built for this moment
and where this league is going.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
The owners want their money.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And I do think though, in all of this that
has happened, the person who probably has escaped criticism and shitn'
is Adam Silver because Adam Silver put her there, say,
and Adam Silver has overseen you know, a large he's
over I mean he the NBA is the one that's
overseeing the WNBA, and people need to understand how unusual
(40:41):
that relationship is in professional sports. The fact that it's
the NBA picking the commissioner, it's not the players picking
the commissioners, is not even the owners really picking the
commission is like Adam Silver is the one who picked
the commissioner, and so as much as people want to
have smoke for Kathy Engelbert, and she deserves it, they're
smoked to be half.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
For Adam Silver as well. One hundred percent miss misdirected anger.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
I've said that a million times, that there's puppeteering happening,
and we are often giving so much smoke to Kathy
and the people who are front facing that we're forgetting
that there is someone behind the scenes that is literally
navigating how these things work. And I and I was shocked,
but not really with the comments that he made, because
(41:27):
comments that he made pretty much affirm that, like we
at this point don't have no interest in doing anything.
They'll work it out, their relationship will work it out,
but we'll get.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
A CBA done.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
That is exactly what is it?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, like they'll figure it, they'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Like it doesn't It doesn't even seem like there's a
true interest from him, which is more furthering the notion
that he needs to catch this fade because he acting
like he don't even care.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But Charlot, I do have a question for you though,
as I are a rumor.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
And when I are your rumors, I don't like to
just be like really, I said, you know, I'm gonna
go to the horse his mouth, because that's what we.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Do on the He said, we'd be like we pull up.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So I heard a rumor that back in the day,
that back in the day, when there was a contract
negotiation or a CBA that needed to be put together,
that you guys basically gave your negotiations to the to
the then president and said, listen here, either you accept
(42:27):
this or we ain't playing. And at the time, the
league could not be like, we can afford for y'all
to not play.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
There's a lad thing that you did. We ain't playing.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
So I want to know if there truth, is there
any truth behind? And I mean, you know, it's been
fifteen years now at this point you might know it's
been a while.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
It's been a while.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
What see, hero, what what like did y'all pull up?
I will say this, So Coquies Washington was like our president.
So was Sonya Henning. But Coquees was like our voice.
She was kind of like the neck up right. And
here's what's so interesting about back then when we were
(43:11):
kind of doing our little CBA negotiations. We had some players, right,
I ain't calling no names, ain't doing anything. We had
some players who were like big name players honestly, who
was like, listen, I'm getting paid, so I don't really
(43:31):
care about all these other ones down here who aren't
getting paid, So I don't want to be a part
of that.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
There were some others of us who was like listen, no,
like right is right and wrong is wrong.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yes, we're getting paid, but what about everybody else? So
there absolutely was a moment where we got together and said, listen,
here's what we want, and take this too. Because it
was president. It wasn't even commission or back then.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
We called out the president and said here's what we want,
and either they're gonna agree to this or they're not.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Now mind you, now, mind you.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What we were asking for was bare minimum compared to
the things they're asking for now. Right, So it wasn't like,
I don't even think we put charter flights in there,
because we knew, like back then, charter flights was not
gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
We weren't even asking for Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We wanted our own rooms, but we were like, okay,
that's not gonna happen. So my point is the things
that we were fighting for and asked for in that,
like the CBA that I can remember, girl, it was
like a piece of cake. It was like real easy.
So like it wasn't like they were gonna be like, nah,
we ain't doing that. But also to your point, he
(44:53):
we were. We were trying to build something. So for
them to come back and say, well, now we're gonna
do that, we just won't play like that just wasn't
very smart. Like the timing of them to be like well, basically,
fuck y'all if you don't play and then you just
don't play right Like, that wasn't gonna happen. That just
wasn't gonna happen. So what I love about where we
(45:16):
are right now and players speaking out, there's a part
of me that's like, because of the momentum and all
the things that's going on with the W right now,
for them to sit out and not play, I'm like, uh,
how does that really hurt the league? But there's another
(45:39):
part of me that's like, oh, hell no, y'all need
to continue to fight from what you deserve and if
they don't give it to you, then you don't play,
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I'm like, honestly, I'm torn. I'm really torn.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
You know, Charlotte was really important you told that story,
you know why, because shows you that even when you
ask for the minimum, they're still not willing to give
you that right.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
And to me, that's worse.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
That's to me, that's worse because it wasn't like what
they're asking for now. Yes, it is more advanced if
you will, because there's more money at stake and they
see the future of the money that's coming. But it
also lets you know that it doesn't matter if you
ask quietly, if it don't matter if you ask for
a little.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
The people that want to.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Sort of stay in opposition to the progress are always
going to stand there whether you ask it for a
lot or a little. See, the thing is, y'all have
already the story of the WNBA is like you guys
have already done that. You've already put the sacrifices in.
You had to share hotel rooms already, you didn't have
charter flights like, you had to go through all of
that for them to get to this moment. And so
(46:53):
for the next moment to come, what's gonna have to
be on the table is yeah, we're willing to blow
all this shit up unless you give us what we want.
Because if you think about the history of progress in
this country, it is never done because somebody thought it
was the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
It's always done by forcing shame, always.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Force and shame, and it's it's the only way things
get accomplished. And so that's why I said, the leverage
of the moment, to me, is the best leverage that
the players have because the owners, now that they see
the money that's possible, and there's even more money as possible,
they don't want to miss out on this moment either.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
They want those valuations to continue to soar.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
They want to they don't want you know, I love
to see I love seeing the news the other day
about how that I think that game we went to
Sunday was the most watched WNBA Finals ever. This is
in the middle of football season. That you know what
I'm saying, it's NFL going on, it's college football. You know,
as much as people are saying, well the players, you know,
(47:56):
you guys don't want to lose this momentum, No, the
owners don't either.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
They got some nervous too. They lose this either. It's
really and that is where I think it is.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
It's helpful that you now I think it's not what
more private owners in it than it is those associated
with the NBA NBA, and I think that's actually helpful
because it will progress and advance things. But now that
FeAs aired it out and we know what the grievouses are,
I think that's also helpful because now the blame she
(48:24):
has firmly shifted all the pressure back on the league.
If y'all don't get this deal done, that's on y'all.
We told y'all what was up. Now it's on you.
And that, to me is the most difficult thing because
I don't exactly see how the w NBA as a
leade can say face in this situation other than by
adapting to what it is that the players are asking
(48:44):
for and finding a way to make it happen. And
they've got to figure out a way to do that
with Kathy, at least for now.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
I don't believe that she's not going to resign after
this negotiation is over. I think that she is personally,
But yeah, the best thing for your image to do
is to write now say I'm not a quitter.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I'm not leaving.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
That's great for the image, but I think that when
this is over, you are absolutely stepping down and somebody
else was going.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
To step in.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
But before I know, you only got a couple minutes
before you got to get out of here. And your estimation,
where do you see this ending in terms of I
know that they're not going to have a negotiation done
by October thirty first. Is it possible that they could
extend the CBA? Absolutely, But like I've personally said, I
think that this will probably play out until February when
(49:30):
free agency comes. I think that is when we will
probably see us really get closer to a solution to this.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
But what do you see like this.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
Actually may be coming to a conclusion, So we are
thinking along the same lines. I've always believed that there
would be a lockout, just because that's just how these
things go. And a lockout, to me, is not scary territory.
It's just kind of what happens whenever there's labor unrest
between players and owners.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
We've seen it in every sport.
Speaker 4 (49:57):
So this is what I think ultimately, and I'm with you,
I don't think that they're going to miss any games
next season. I fully believe that the season will start
on time. Things may be a little rushed, but I
think things are still going to start on time. I
will say this, I don't know that the players are
going to get a fifty to fifty share, but I
think they're going to get something close and because listen,
(50:18):
I've been in enough negotiation, not like between players and owners,
but like just even in my own personal negotiations. I've
been in enough of them to know is that all
you got to do is give a little bit of
what each side wants. We know that the owners really
want the players to stop playing overseas. We know that's
a big thing for them. It's like they want to
protect the product. They don't want the product exposed. They
(50:38):
want them to stop. Okay, the price of doing business
is you got to give more money. More money I
always thought the players would get. But it's just a
difference between are we talking to twenty percent rap share?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Are we talking to thirty? Are we talking to forty?
Speaker 4 (50:51):
I think they're going to try to get it as
close to fifty percent as possible.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I don't think it'll quite make it there.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Because I'm not sure yet if the money is all
the way there to do that. But I think they'll
get more and I think they'll get merch sales, and
the big thing to me, I think they will get
a pension. And I think if you can get like,
let's say you can get between I'm gonna say thirty five.
If you can get between thirty five or forty percent
(51:15):
of the red shale merchant the rep share, merch sales,
and a pension, I think that's a major win, major win.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
What about you, Cheryl?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
The pension is huge for a lot, a lot, a
lot of reasons. I am on the same page with
both of you on that. I have a question for
Jay before she goes. I know both of both of
you tend to think that Cassie will step down after negotiations.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
My question is, why does it have to be after negotiations?
Speaker 4 (51:52):
See cheryld You know what, That's a great question, And
to be honest, I go back and forth about that
because I don't personally, I don't think there's any problem
with her stepping down tomorrow, Like there's nothing to stop that,
and I don't think it and honestly, I think it
would actually advance negotiations further if she did. And that's
the part I need Adam Silver to take a look
(52:14):
at and say, is this person going to help us
get closer to the goal or are they going to
help us move further away? And it feels like she's
moving y'all further away. So what's her what's the point
of her being there? She's not getting you closer and
the players have lost respect for her and they don't
want to talk to her. What is the point of
her being there? She's not serving a function? And I
think the owners if you are thinking about this too.
(52:35):
You brought up Adam Silver's phone like, hey, man, I
know you got this whole Kawhi Leonard situation to deal with,
but I'm gonna need you to put you on it.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Right, Okay. I need you to do that because it's true.
It's like yo, it's like I think that's.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
My thing is when you get to a point to
where you like again, I'm not I don't care for friends,
but when you get to a point to where there's
no respect, they're one.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I don't trust you as a commissioner.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I don't trust you, I don't respect you, and you
clearly don't respect me as a player. I just feel
like that makes the negotiations harder.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, because then they're going to be
more unwilling to compromise with her. And so just because
they don't trust her, like you said, and they lost
the respect, So it's just kind of hard to even
get that going.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
But yeah, like, I don't think it's.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
A big I don't think it all sets negotiation back
if she if she leaves beforehand, because I think that's
been sort of the perception that like, oh, well, they've
started the talks and she's got to be involved. Why
didn't have to be to pick up that ball? She
definitely could, Like I think she's going to wait until after.
But but honestly, my rationale for after is because Pridie,
(53:54):
like you you said it, You said it right to Pridie,
like she just strikes me as the individ that wants
to prove something that she doesn't necessarily but I did,
and she wants She already feels that she has done
so much for the league that y'all should be on
your knees excited and begging and thanking her for the
media deals. So if she already feels that way that
(54:16):
you guys should be thanking her. In my mind, priorate
ego will not allow her to step down and say, Okay, obviously,
my presence isn't what's benefiting these women or this league
that I care to care for that I say I
care for. So I think that is what is going
to force her to continue to remain here, and all
the more reason why to your point, J, these negotiations
that probably could happen a little bit faster if she
(54:37):
moved out the way, will probably end up being done
in like end of January.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Early February. Oh you know.
Speaker 4 (54:44):
The other part of it too, is like it's not
just her needing to save a little face. I think
it's the NBA as well, and there's a certain way
they like to do things, and for them, it's a
much clearer exit if it happens after negotiations, they can
have a new commissioner and they can kind of do
things in a orderly fashion.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
So I think that's the other factor as.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
Well, is like how Adam Sandler or have center Adam
Silver wants to do this. Definitely know, definitely, definitely matters absolutely,
which as always we always love having you on the show.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
And you know what, honestly, if Adam f was this
ship my look alone, right, it.
Speaker 4 (55:23):
Would be a happy Gilmore three, that's for sure. A players, yes,
A players, but yes, you know, I always like kicking
it with y'all, and I thank you for making me
your first sort of recurring guest.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But y'all know, y'all welcome to ring me anytime.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
I'm always available, and more importantly, when either of both
of y'all come to l A, you know you're welcome
to come here and kick it in the backyard.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I am for sure, just.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Don't make me in the direction that I'm going to others.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
And ship taken care of the first, Yeah, definitely, I will.
Speaker 5 (56:01):
All right, thank you Jane.
Speaker 4 (56:19):
When I tell you that if it wasn't for the
fact that we had shit to do, we probably would.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Still be talking to you right now. Fact, because that's
just that's just the homie, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
And she not wrong when she talked about you know
how the w NBA needs to figure out how to
handle moving forward what that might look like, including maybe
parting ways with Kathy Kelbart sooner than before these negotiations
are over. So I think you guys are spot on
when you talk about how that could benefit the league.
So at any rate, you know, every day there's a
(56:53):
new headline about what's gonna happen next, Who's doing what,
who said what. Now you're finding out that the owners
aren't necessarily happy with the communication style of the current commissioner.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
There's just a lot to unpack.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
And I feel like I feel like we're gonna be
talking about this for for at least another three moments.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Without question, and let's just hope we're talking about some
good things coming out of the CBA. But you know,
to your point, we could sit here and talk to
Jamail all day. Here's what I need. I appreciate the invite,
but since I ain't coming over to you, get them
damn rodents and ship whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
You guys can get that fixed.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
She killed me with that owl, turned around in the
middle of it. Let me walk past.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
I'll start, ma'am and yeah, no, no, no, we good.
She don't love you, Jay, I love.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
You, but j No, I'm from We shoot first.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
We don't have to meet at a at a mutual,
mutually agreed upon location.
Speaker 3 (57:57):
I shoot first, Jay, y'all, I'm gonna get fucked up
with me.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
I'm so thorgh.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Sorry, sorry, Oh my gosh, what a great conversation.
Speaker 4 (58:10):
Oh my god, such a great conversation. Well anyway, let's
just go ahead, and I know you got some good
for us today, Cheryl, So let's go ahead and level
this thing on out.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
I do, I think I do.
Speaker 1 (58:21):
Listen, let's just get right to it, because it hit
me today and I loved it. It says, be her,
the woman who knows the grass is greener wherever she stands,
because she brings value to every space she is in.
(58:41):
That is a message for every woman in the WNBA,
every one of them, and that I think that's probably
why it hit me and I love just the first
two words, be her.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Be her, that's it, that's it. Be her. Period.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
Well, guys, that will do it for this week's episode
of Levels to this. We just continue to appreciate the
way that you guys continue to support us when we're
out and about. People are always coming up to me
and coming up to show and just talking about how
much they love the show, how much they appreciate the
conversations that we're having what we're doing. So continue to
(59:21):
follow us and listen to us. But remember this is
not just our show. It is our show, so we
need you to link up with us by either sending
us an email at Levels to This Podcast at gmail dot.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Com, or follow us on social.
Speaker 4 (59:35):
Media at LTTPOD on Instagram.
Speaker 5 (59:38):
We be looking.
Speaker 4 (59:40):
Make sure you leave a reviewer a comment on Apple
Podcasts because I'll be reading the comments. I'll be reading
every last one of them comments. I need to do better,
but I'll be reading the comments. But we want to
hear what you want to hear, what you want to
talk about. Share that with us. But until next time, friends,
keep your mentors ground level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Me listen to Levels to This on America's number one
podcast network, iHeart.
Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Open your free
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
iHeart app and search Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops
and Treka Foster Brasbee and start listening
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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