Gringo's Guide To: Thinking Beyond The American Dream

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Let me talk about here we go, he said he
live in life pas a ringle. Wait, you questioned when
you fit in? Every time you mingle, they say you do.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
This would not.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
This? Yeah, hello, and welcome to another episode of life.
As he couldn't go, I am dramas of course, and man, apologies,
I know I left you hanging last week. I want
to say that we're doubling up on an episode today
or on episodes, I should say today. I was deathly

(00:41):
ill with the flu, and I mentioned it last episode,
but that was sort of part of you know, stuff
hit the fan if you will, okay. Because I got
so sick, I couldn't finish episodes. I couldn't do interviews
I was supposed to have. On top of that, we
were already under a really tight window because I was
on tour and for the beginning part of March essentially,

(01:04):
so I wasn't able to record episodes ahead of time
like I normally would have. So we really were like
already under a tight deadline. And then me being deathly
ill from the flu just everything went out the window.
We're getting back on track, though, thank you God. I'm
still like not one hundred percent. I probably still sound
a little bit crazy. There might be some disgusting sounding

(01:26):
coughs or throat clearing you might hear at some point apologies,
but here we are. We're human. Anyway, it's Financial Literai
a month. It's April, right, and I'm really really, really,
really really excited about today's show. I don't normally give
you that many realies. I'm genuinely excited because my goal
with Financial Literacy Month this year. And I'll touch on

(01:51):
a bit when our guest hops on, but I really
wanted to just do something different, right cause I feel
like we're evolving here. Right. If at this point, man,
it's three years, three seasons of the show, this would
be I think my third year doing financial literacy a month.
I've done a lot of the basics stock investing and
credits and real estate and all these different sort of things,

(02:15):
and there are other amazing resources out there that do
this on the regular, right, So I was really racking
my brain and you kind of saw this in the
last episode. But to reiterate, what is something different I
can bring to the financial conversation that to me is
a bit more personal, is a bit more emotional, and

(02:36):
there's a human aspect to it, you know, And that's
why we did mental health aspects of finances a bit
in the last show, and this one specifically like reading
you know, the the topics of you know, because I
have it laid out as far as like what I'm

(02:57):
gonna be speaking about in in terms of this month's
financial narrative and financial focus. This one, to me, I
was so excited. It's the cost of the American dream essentially, right,
and is it worth it? Is it even real anymore?
Was it ever real for latinos? Right? And I've touched

(03:19):
on this in various ways. But because of the uncertain
economic times that we're in right now, right there's so
much talk about terror of us and you know, the
are we going towards the depressions? The stock market a crash.
A lot of people are losing jobs in general. I
mean entire government agencies are just disappearing, and those are jobs.

(03:39):
There's so much uncertainty, and I think the way that
I would like to look at times like this is
when I feel nervous, I feel uncertain, I ask myself
where is the opportunity? Because there's always opportunity, right, And
you know, I can give you the the you know
finance pro mindset of like companies like Uber were created

(04:03):
during the recession and whatever. Right, So there's always opportunity
during the fire, if you will. Right. That's why things
like disaster capitalism as discussing as it is, are a thing.
But the opportunity I sort of see in today's day
and age where we are is predicated on the fact

(04:23):
that if the American dream is a lie, if it's
not available for my generation to younger or for many
people I think of various generations at this point, or
no longer is feasible for them, or their version of
it is dwindling away. That now means the safe route
is no longer safe. So the you know, risky if

(04:48):
you will quote unquote risky route that involves the things
that you're passionate about, that sounds more and more like
a viable option, right, And there's opportunity there. And I
wanted to bring on somebody who already talks about thinking
outside of the box with the work that he does
with biac change, doctor Paul Rivera. And he's, uh, you know,

(05:09):
he was an economist, a diplomat. He has personal connections
to a lot of what's happening right now in the economy.
We'll touch on that, but he also is somebody who
his family lives abroad as well in Dominican Republic. They
you know, left their traditional jobs that they had and

(05:31):
are entrepreneurs now doing various things and in sort of
the education, you know, educational space, as far as motivation
and the Latin community specifically, And it's it's out of
the box thinking that's going to get us through these
difficult times, right. And again, there's other people doing incredible

(05:55):
work in terms of investing in all these different things,
and and I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity as well
on that. And I could have brought over like a
stock market person that's telling you to buy bye bye
right now if you have money saved and things like that.
But for me, I think it was more important to
say we've got to the boiling point where the American

(06:17):
dream is not a real thing. Most of us can't
afford a house. If I hadn't purchased my house in
twenty twenty when things were crazy, I would not be
a homeowner right now. Right, So many of the industries
or jobs or ideas that I had planned are you know,
gone belly up because of the economy. So there's so

(06:41):
much uncertainty, but again, there's so much opportunity within that.
And I feel like I'm babbling and talking in circles,
so I'll probably just cut it here. And it's because
I'm just really excited about this conversation, right, But it's
basically the gist of this conversation is, if the American
dream is dead, or it was a lie, or it

(07:02):
was never meant for us, what's next? And that's what
we're going to talk about today with doctor Paul Rivera,
and we'll do it as one long he hint this segment.
My guest today returning to the show. He is a

(07:23):
co founder of b act Change. He has a career
that spans from academia to diplomacy, international economics, and strategic coaching.
My guy, doctor Paul Rivera, how you feeling.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
I'm feeling good man. I'm so glad to be back here.
It is an honor to be invited back to the show.
This is great. I'm so glad to be here. I
wish we were here to talk about like all the
great stuff happening in the world. But it's a it's
kind of A, it's a it's a really timely topic
today to talk about some of these things.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know, I kind of I was telling
you that. I was like, you know, I was going
to kind of tackle this conversation alone, and then I
just kept refferencing you and I's conversation. I felt like
there was so much we didn't dive into. But then
also to your point, there's so much that is far
more relevant than EVE when we first sat down, and
you know, kind of it being Financial Literacy month, you know,

(08:14):
I've done these in the past. Each year, we've covered
kind of the basics of credit and all and investing
and all these different things. But for this year, I
kind of wanted to be a little bit outside of
the box in terms of I think what people consider
to be financial conversations. And this one right here is
something that has been really on my mind heavily. I
know it something you speak about a lot. It's this

(08:35):
idea of the American dream, right, and man, we're living
in twenty twenty five where everything that made up the
American dream doesn't seem feasible for anybody at this point, right,
And I know that for you specifically, when you do
some of your speaking engagements. One of the topics that
you do, you know, sort of specialize in, is this idea,
in your words, the broken promises and the fallacy of

(08:58):
the American Dream for Latinos. And I would love for
you to kind of start there, giving me sort of
the elevator pitch as to what that conversation is all about.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
For sure, I mean there's a lot there. So for
when it's based on our book. Our book is called
Creating Your Limitless Life, and then the subtitle of it
is Chasing the American Dream, and it's crossed out, so
you know, our book really has this premise that the
whole concept of the American Dream as it's been applied
in the US especially, but really all over the developed

(09:32):
world is really something that has been that has created
a lot of division, a scarcity, mindset, a lot of toxicity,
and ultimately as we look at it, you know, I
focus specifically on the Latino population, and really in the
United States has been something that's been so so damaging
to families, to mental health. You know, the whole concept

(09:55):
of the American Dream as it was first conceived was
that in a lend of equal opportunity, what you need
to get ahead is basically your gannas, you know, your
your will to work, your your own energy you brought
to it, you know. You know, there's so many, so
many of those stories that you read about from the

(10:15):
earlier days, where you know, all these people, these immigrants
who showed up and said, you know, I had I
had nothing but eighteen dollars in my pocket, you know,
and that's all I had. And from that I bootstrapped
and I did all of this stuff, you know. And
so as we project forward, one we see that that
whole concept of starting from equality is out right. That's

(10:36):
that's gone. That's not something that ever existed, and much
less today, you know, especially as we see the dismantling
of DEI and all of those things. Anything that would
even try to sort of level that playing field that's
out at this point. Add to that then that there
are so many other obstacles that are that are on

(10:58):
top of it. You know, you mentioned it. There's so
many youth who eighty five percent of youth still believe
in the American dream, they still kind of want it.
Over sixty percent of them, though, don't really believe that
they can get there. So it's not just a dream,
it's a pipe dream. You know, it's become so far

(11:18):
out of reach for them. As you start seeing that,
and this isn't something new for one, that this sort
of decay of the American dream, such as it as
it's portrayed in movies and in sort of American folk
lord is something that's been on the decline for my
entire lifetime. For the last fifty years, this has been
on the downslide as we've been de emphasizing one technical

(11:42):
and vocational and moving to a much more service based
economy as as a country, as we've been de emphasizing
education in terms of the investment that we make at
the national level. You know, you can't have a service
economy if you're not educating your workers, right, it doesn't
make any sense. You start seeing all of these young
people who are trying to get there, who are being

(12:05):
told by society, by their parents, by media that this
is the bar that you need to achieve, and instead
of it being sort of something that is about being
your highest aspiration and what means what matters to you,
the American dream turns out to be do you have
a house? Do you have a car? Do you have
a dog, have you been married? How many kids do
you have. It's all these very metric based things. And

(12:28):
as immigrants, focusing on the Latino population in particular, as
immigrants and children of immigrants, we have all of these
burdens placed on top of us, plus things that are
culturally inherited from Latin America and all of that, and
they find that it's too much. It's too much, you know.
That's why we start seeing, for example, mental health issues.

(12:48):
There are so many more mental health issues among young Latinos,
young Latino men who are really feeling that pressure. There's
suicidal ideation. As we mentioned before, that's a much high
rate than other comparable age groups and other ethnic groups.
And the suicidal ideation piece is really important, right, It's

(13:09):
not just that they're sad or that they're depressed, or
they're stressed. They are so stressed that they contemplate whether
they have any value to go on living. That's what
the American dream is doing to not just Latinos, but
you know, at this point, all Americans. But it's something
that hits immigrant populations, bipoc populations so much harder when

(13:31):
that wealth cushion isn't necessarily there to take on some
of these some of these shocks frankly that are happening
in the economy and society right now. So it's just
it's a really really critical time for people to really
reassess what they value and what they're striving for and
how they're going about it.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, and I love that last sentence right there, the
idea of reassessing, right and really getting down to what
you value, right, because I think a lot of us
are trying to live out the sort of fantasy of
our parents almost right, or for I think a lot
of people because it was so difficult for their parents,
there's this guilt of like I have to do all,

(14:11):
you know, check all the boxes and do all the
things that they weren't able to do, right because they
sacrifice so much for me. And I think that is
sort of what is the unique aspect specifically of immigrant
children having to sort of navigate that you know, cultural
and family sort of indoctrination, if you will, into the

(14:33):
American dream and the belief of it. But then that
other side of you that's tugging and pulling of like, well,
what actually makes me happy? You know, because the irony
sort of of where we are right now, specifically the
United States, but i'd imagine globally, is that even the
shit that you hate doing isn't enough to pay the
bills anymore. Right, there was a time period where, you know,

(14:55):
I can think about my father's generation went to school
for something he didn't particularly enjoy, and had a job
he didn't particularly enjoy, but it put food on the table,
paid for the bills, it did all those things, right,
So it was kind of an even sacrifice, almost, right,
And almost I see that as an opportunity in today's
day age, where it's like, listen, if I'm going to suffer,
I might as well suffer for the things that I
actually enjoy doing rather than suffer at a job I hate,

(15:18):
just to have the car that everybody respects me for,
quote unquote, and the house and all these different things, right,
And I think that is sort of the point I'm
trying to get. I think with this conversation is we're
in a really interesting and incredibly difficult time, and those
who are going to find their way out of this
in a positive way are those who begin to think
outside of the box and begin to deprogram. I think

(15:42):
some of those norms that have been instilled in us
since we were very young.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I think so completely. I mean, you said some really
really important stuff there. One is that as as children
of immigrants, we carry the dreams of our parents, you know,
we inherit those, yes, and that's a way that's placed
upon us. You know, we didn't we didn't choose that necessarily.
They chose it, and they chose it for a very
good reason most of the time. But their concept of

(16:08):
what success is they're the ones who really love the
American dream for us. That's what they want for us,
you know. And exactly as you say that that, there's
a recent article that came out that was that was
really fascinating that basically talks about how the America where
your dad could, you know, grab his lunch pail and
go off to work at a job that was oftentimes

(16:30):
really physically grueling, didn't necessarily respect the mind that he
brought to the to the task, you know, but was
able to come home and was able to provide for
the family and obtain the metrics of the American dream.
That America is gone, you know, and that America is
where the idea, for example, of work life balance came

(16:53):
out right because there's there's your work and there's your life,
and people saw those as really really separate. Right, work
is where you know, I go to earn what I
have to earn, and then I live outside. Right as
we're seeing this whole transition in terms of the economy,
in terms of society, in terms of young people really

(17:14):
beginning to change the expectations of what success looks like,
and all of that, we're shifting from a model of
work life balance to more like work life integration. Right,
my work is part of my life. It's I'm spending
part of my precious life hours doing this. It's I
want it to be something that is aligned with me,
something that aligns with my values, something that makes me

(17:37):
feel good for what I'm doing and how I'm doing
it and the unique how to the superpower that I
bring to that particular situation. So that that whole shift
is definitely happening. And I would say that that from
our point of view in terms of change my business
and the book, that's definitely something that we advocate because
that alignment is what starts to change. Also a lot

(18:00):
of those mental health issues, right when you are acting
in alignment with your internal compass right, when you are
aligned with your purpose, when you're aligned with your values,
when you see yourself advancing in the world what you
value and using the strength and the superpower that you
bring to it, that is when you start to really

(18:23):
get into that flow where you are presenting the best
version of yourself. You're providing frankly, the greatest economic value
to the world in that sense, because that is the
best version of you, you know. So that's definitely something
that we advocate and push for as hard as we can.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
All right, let's pause here, We'll take a quick break,
and then we'll be right back. All right, we are
back now. I kind of want to just also for
the sake of setting I guess the baseline here. You
have a background in economics. I kind of want to
also talk about how we got here, because the irony is,
to your point, the American dream was never really meant

(19:01):
for us, right as children of immigrants. But now it's
not really meant for anybody, right, even those who were
born into privilege, you know, to a degree, because of
their skin color and their you know, lineage, they're starting
to feel the effects of sort of what I would
call this sort of extreme capitalism where we are now,
you know, and that is a drastic turn that I

(19:24):
think has happened from when you talk about the fifties
and sixties, sixties, when they talk about this idea of
the American dream and like the you know, white picket
fence and the state home wife that kept the house
and like the husband went to work and was able
to pay for the entire family and the house and
the car off of one single income, right, And now

(19:44):
that is completely shifted. But it's because also how corporations
and companies are treating business and the mindset of sort
of I guess, squeezing every penny they possibly can and
passing the buck onto the employees and the consumer.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Right.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I love to sort of here for a little
bit more of an economics background to what you've seen
that that you know, transition that really has caused the
American dream to be not existent for anybody almost at
this point.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I will tell you. And I hope I don't get
too theoretical in this, because I know that I tend
to do that to go. But it's it's one of
the one of the things that's hardest for me as
an economist, Like what the fascinating thing about economics as
a field of study is that pretty much in the
entire world, all economists are pretty much trained the same.

(20:30):
Like we study the same guys. We you know, we
all do the same math problems. We all learn about optimization,
Like economics is the study of optimization, and optimization means
creating a goal and then finding the most efficient path
to that goal. So at the end of the day,
what economics ends up really being about is the implementation
and study of efficiency. Right, So, efficiency takes a couple

(20:55):
of different routes. One is productivity, where we can get
to that ultimate goal by becoming more productive, right by
implementing technology, by finding better ways to do what we do.
The other way is by reducing costs, right by making
it cheaper to get there. We also find that we

(21:17):
create efficiencies in reaching those goals. What's super important One
of the reasons why I often argue that economists shouldn't
be the person who's necessarily doing your strategy for you.
Economists are also trained to see constraints. So in that
vision of optimization and efficiency and productivity and cost savings,

(21:41):
what economists are trained to see is always ask the question,
what's going to hold you back? What's going to hold
you back? And so economists constantly see all of the
roadblocks on the way to that goal. And so the
economist is never going to be the one who says
to you, you know what, dream super big. You are
are freaking amazing, You are limitless, and you can do whatever. Right.

(22:06):
The economist is never going to be the one to
say that, because the economist is going to be like, wait,
there's all this stuff that's in your way. Look what's
going to get in your way. You've got culture, you're brown,
you're this right, your parents don't speak English. You got
all these things in your way. You're not going to
make it. So you might as well dream low, and
let's just find the optimal way for you to dream low,
you know. So that's that's the one side. You know

(22:26):
that that the study of economics gets so involved in
the efficiency that one you forget the humanity in it.
You forget the humanity. So, and that's what's been implemented.
So much of the modern western capitalist economic system is

(22:47):
based on traditional economics, right, and so in traditional economics,
there's everybody is pretty much replaceable. You're a cog in
the wheel and the extent to which you are able
to be either more productive or less expensive, that's the
value that you have. Right, So as we see everything
built on that, like, there was a time where that

(23:08):
worked for us, right, because we were at one point
a manufacturing economy. We made stuff, We built stuff, and
that's that's sort of the structure of the economy that
the United States was built on, and the American dream
was built on. Was you know, there's we had these
vast natural resources. We brought in people, we skilled them
up on how to use these natural resources, and that

(23:30):
was really the source of that growth. There came a
point where the wealth that the United States had accumulated
was large enough that basically the average wage of the
average American was out competing those of other countries. And
as transportation starts to become cheaper and more efficient, we
start to trade with other countries and we start to say, hey,

(23:51):
you know what, I could make this here in the
United States, but I could offshore that and it's cheaper
to do it there. Their workers get paid less and
it's cheaper. And what's cheaper cheaper is efficient. Cheaper takes
me towards optimization. So I start shifting the structure of
the economy in the United States. Little, little by little,
pretty soon, what we find is that our real value

(24:15):
was in innovation. We were coming up with the ideas, right,
and you can see that really really strongly, especially in
the post World War two era. The United States was
the leader in the innovation, the space technology, all of
that that was the United States. Then what happened then

(24:35):
we start seeing some shifts, especially domestically in terms of
how we valued education, because suddenly when you're a surface economy,
now you're a mind economy. Now, suddenly the technical work
doesn't have as much value anymore. Right, we're not investing,
as I said before, we're not investing in vocational education
like we used to. There's the trades that are so

(24:57):
so so important are falling down, falling off, and then
we also cut off our education investment too, so we're
not creating the space to continue the comparative advantage we
had created for ourselves in terms of that idea economy,
the innovation economy, that's falling off too. So now we're

(25:20):
now we're sort of paying the price for it. Right,
We're not technically skilled, we're not the top of the
innovation necessarily anymore. And we have a whole bunch of people.
We have millions and millions of people who are struggling
to make it now. So we see now prices going up,
wages staying stagnant, which means by definition, people are becoming
relatively less wealthy. Right, And so an any now, by

(25:44):
any definition of the American dream, it's harder to get to, right.
And then add ad on top of that any any
systemic racism, cultural biases, and any other weight that you
have that you have to carry as well, and it
is a brutal, brutal time.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah. No, And and to your point, the powers that
be are people who operate from that mindset of efficiency, right,
And they don't have any sort of emotional connection to
the lives that they're affecting.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
They're looking at basically spreadsheets and erasing people as if
they're just numbers on you know, a piece of paper.
And with AI and all these different things, a lot
of industries are going to be disrupted for the worst.
You know, as far as if you are an American worker,
if you're concerned, and I think now to to kind

(26:36):
of what we've been getting to is, you know, it's
the time for us as as human beings to begin
to think outside of the box, to accept the fact
that what we've been taught, you know, the traditions we've
been taught, all we know about the workforce and what
our lives are supposed to look like in adulthood, much
of it was a lie or unfortunately we missed the

(26:58):
boat on that opportunitiesquote unquote opportunities, right. And now you know,
I think and for a lot of people, that's a
bitter pill to swallow, but again there's an opportunity there, right,
because now you're in creation bote almost, which to me
is exciting. It is no longer falling in line. And
when you take away the safety net, it's now you
being able to have more of an honest conversation as

(27:20):
to what you truly want to do in this life. Right,
and that means maybe not following the traditional route or
the expectations of parents, right, And that's kind of where
I want to begin to navigate towards. And you know,
even for me, you know, when I first you know,
I was looking at properties. I want to you know,
I wanted to do that, right, I wanted to be

(27:40):
a homeowner, and I'm very fortunate that I had people
around me who were investing at the time, right, who
were far more successful than me. And I saw what
they were doing in creating wealth and creating income from
the properties they were buying, rather than just paying this
mortgage month over month and you know all the expenses
that come along with it. And I remember specifically showing

(28:01):
my mom a property I was looking at and it
wasn't like the traditional, you know, esthetically pleasing place. It
was a multi use building, right, and it had a
commercial and residential and I was That's what I showed her.
I said, this is what I want to buy as
my first home, essentially because I want something that could
yield me income and further down the line, one day,
I'll get that American dream homee. I remember her not

(28:24):
being able to compute that in her mind initially, right.
She was so programmed into wanting to have the cute
house that you know, we entertained family at and all
these things that she couldn't get why the hell I
had an interest in this ugly ass eyesore of a building, right.
And thankfully I you know, ignored that, uh, you know,
ignored her perspective because it's it's yielded me a comfort

(28:46):
that I wouldn't have had had I been in just
a house. But it wasn't easy. And I consider myself
somebody who doesn't follow much of what his parents want
him to do. And even for me, there was still
that back and forth of like wanting the house I
can show off to my friends that is esthetically pleasing,
right that I could have the barbecues at at all
those things, And I had to fight that urge, right

(29:09):
it was it was so deeply ingrained in me. And
I know that you, throughout the course of your life
had to do so many of those different things. I
think on the last show we talked about how you
sort of let go of a particular friend group. It
really just, you know, kind of restarted your life. But
I also know that your family currently lives in dr
did at least right in the Dominican Republic, which for

(29:30):
most people is like they can't even compute that in
their minds right leaving the United States of America. So
I guess let's start there with a bit of the
unlearning that has to happen in order to really provide
yourself with not only the best opportunity, but I think
a more authentic vantage point of what you really want, right,

(29:52):
How do we get the voice of our parents out
of our head that is clogging up and dulling down
the real voice of our actual heart and our authentic self.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
For sure, for sure, there's there's so much that you
just said that resonated with me. One. I'm actually calling
you from from Santo Domingo today, so beautiful, that's I'm there.
And you know, it's it's really hard for for my
immigrant parents in the United States who left Latin America
to be like going back to Latin America. You know,

(30:21):
that's the place we went, we went running away from,
you know, but this is this is where I feel
at home. You know, I feel at home in Latin America.
These are these are my people, and I feel good,
you know. So that that that listening to your gut
and you know, trying to tune out all those voices
around you are it's it's a it's a real skill
to develop. But we'll talk about that in a second.
The other thing is, you know, the whole situation that

(30:44):
that you talked about there in the beginning has actually
happened to us. You know, so we're we're we're business owners,
we're we're social enterprise. With this administration, you know, the
the changes that they implemented, you know, if you if
you followed, they shut down US Agency for Internetational Development USAID,
and as a business, about a third of our contracts

(31:05):
were with them, And then so much of the other
work that we do, either on the business side or
on the social enterprise side of what we do has
been talking to black and brown communities, BIPOP communities all
around the United States. So every the other half of
what we did of do actually is DEI. So basically,

(31:26):
in the space of two weeks after January twentieth, we
had ninety five percent of our income decimated, gone eliminated,
like gone as as a business, as a household, as
a family, gone right, So that whole thing that, like
the situation that you talked about of you know, now's
the time to be to be creative, to be authentic

(31:49):
to you know, to really tap into into what's meaningful
to you is definitely the situation that we're in. But
at the same time, there's you know, there's kind of
a mourning yeah that goes with that, you know, because
we can we had built something beautiful, you know, something
that we had built it to align with us, you know,

(32:09):
and just to be told that that you know, your government,
your country thinks now that this is not valuable, that
in fact that you are I mean as as a
former diplomat for usaid I was, you know, I was,
not directly to me, but to me and all my colleagues,
we were we were called traders, thieves, you know, and

(32:32):
all sorts of things, you know. So it's it was
a it's been a whole mourning process to go through
and then now trying to now picking ourselves up again,
you know, and exactly as you said, you know, finding
in the end actually much more authentic and much much
more powerful ways of doing what we want to do. Okay,
So the first thing is exactly as you said, beginning

(32:56):
to unlearn everything that's been placed on us, everything that
we've been carrying. One of the things that I talk
about a lot when I when I do public speaking
is the concept is the word liberation. So the word
liberation actually is a Latin based word, and you know,
if you're a Spanish speaker, you know that the word,

(33:17):
for example, for like a pound weight is leave livra
so libra and libre, which are you know, freedom and
weight actually come from the same root word, and so
there's a there's a lot of philosophical understanding that liberation
isn't actually, for example, the absence of responsibility. It's not
it's not not carrying any weight. Liberation is actually being

(33:40):
able to put down the weight that isn't yours and
pick up your weight. That's what liberation is. It's it's
kind of a choosing right. And so in that process,
one of the first things that we tell people is
to think about your uniqueness, like, what is it that
any storm that comes, no matter what's up, no what

(34:03):
what's down, what job you're in, what situation you're in,
what is it that you bring to that job. So,
for example, we start with we call it the forty
billion dollar question. It kind of goes like this. Let's
say that the G seven, the you know, the Global
seven powers, they come to you and they say, we

(34:26):
have forty billion dollars for you to solve one global problem.
What problem would you want to solve? Right, And people
answer all kinds of things, you know, water, education, healthcare
for everyone, poverty, hunger, whatever it is, whatever matters to
that person, Okay, great, they love your idea, they're ready

(34:48):
to sign the check over to you, but they got
one question for you. And that question is I just
need you to give me basically the three to five
steps of what you're going to with the money, like
how are you going to solve the problem right? And so,
for example, we get a lot of folks who say
things like hunger or food scarcity or whatever it is, right,

(35:10):
and there are some people who will answer the question
by saying, Okay, the first thing that I would do
is that I would figure out where there is the
greatest need. And then the second thing I'm going to
do is that I would rally all of the NGOs
and all the community organizations that are around. And then
the third thing is that I would work on distribution

(35:30):
methodologies and all of this and make sure that there's
equality so that one person answers like that another person says,
I'm also interested in food and security and hunger. But
here's what I would do. The first thing that I
would do is that I would find for every location,
what's the most fertile plant that we can grow there,
and I would work with the growing associations and I

(35:50):
would create greater production of food and start alleviating it
that way. So it's super fascinating because what you find
out that the actual blame global problem, here's the secret,
the actual global problem doesn't even matter. What we're looking
for is your how to? How do you solve those problems? Right?
And so that is super super unique to almost anyone.

(36:12):
Nobody answers that question the same. They're how everybody has
their own unique how to, And what you start to
find out is that that unique how to in some way,
you apply to everything in your life. Right when your
phone rings and your Buddi's on the other line and
he's like, Paul, I need your help with something. I
know what they're going to help me, what they're going
to ask me for, because I have that how too.

(36:34):
That's what people come to me for, right, I bring
that to every situation. Understanding that about yourself is super important.
The second thing is starting to speak about yourself in
that way and calling it your superpower. We spend a
lot of time jumping up and down talking to young

(36:55):
Latinos and Latinos all over the country saying you have
a super power, this unique how to that you bring
to the problems in the world. Your problem solving approach
is unique to you. It's your value add in this world. Right,
it's really starting to try to change. Like as we
talked about that whole idea of efficiency and productivity, it's

(37:19):
so much more than physically what you bring, right, What
I bring my productivity, My value is this how to
that I bring to any situation. You know, and I'm
somebody who has For example, I've worked as an EMT,
I worked retail, I worked at a paint manufacturer. I've
been a college professor, I've been a diplomat, a mechanic,

(37:40):
a roofer, an ac repairman. I've done everything. And guess
what I bring the same how to to every situation
because that's what I bring. And so as we start
thinking about, for example, deprogramming ourselves, starting to let go
of the pressures and the expectations that are placed on us,
it's really important for us to start thinking about and
talking about ourselves in terms of that superpower. Right that

(38:04):
this is what you say. This is what you say
in a job interview when they say why are you qualified?
Why do you want this job? You say, you know
what I bring? This superpower that is extremely valuable to you,
you know, So that is step one. There's a lot
more we could talk about, but that's step one in
starting to deprogram those expectations that are placed upon you

(38:24):
and really connect with something that is authentic to you,
that's valuable to you and meaningful to you.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
I would say, one more quick break here and then
we'll be right back. All right, we are back. Now.
You're talking about all these different jobs that you've had, right,
and I'd imagine you are not super passionate about manufacturing
paint or you know, particular retail jobs. But I find

(38:52):
intriguing that you said you found a way to show
up each time as that sort of best version of yourself,
right and present yourself through your strongest, sort of natural
skill set. Almost And I think for a lot of people,
whether it be they were laid off and now they're
sort of having to take odd jobs or a job

(39:12):
that they know that they're not interested in, right that
maybe they love their job, and now with the economy
and all that's happening, they might have to do some
extra side hustles or take on a job for the
time being until they find that next opportunity that they love.
I've always struggled with this is how do I not
essentially just become miserable or jaded or angry at the

(39:37):
world as I'm doing the tough, grutwork BS job that
I have to do to keep the lights on while
fighting to make my dreams come true.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I think there's a lot of intentionality that has to
go into it. So, I mean, I've I've been there.
I mean you don't. You don't do as many jobs
as I've done without having having that need. You know
what I mean. It's it's to be fair. Paint manufacturing
is incredibly interesting and exciting, so much more than you
would think. You know, There's there's a whole chemistry that

(40:08):
goes behind it. It's really fascinating stuff. But at the
same time, you know, it's as you said, it wasn't
my passion. I did that because I had to, you know,
So there's an intentionality that goes behind it. So you
need to know, for example, you need to be very cognizant.
It needs to be in your mind daily how it

(40:32):
is that your unique how to, how it is that
you are applying it in that job. Okay, So for example, mine,
one of one of my biggest how tos. One of
the big things that I bring is that I have
the perspective, the talent, whatever it is, of seeing in
people the potential that they oftentimes don't see in themselves, right,

(40:58):
which means I'm really good at bringing together a team
and making that team do things together that no single
individual could have ever conceived of. Right. It was super,
super super useful to me when I was in the
paint manufacturing business because I was able to be in
a situation where I resolved problems between shipping and manufacturing

(41:23):
and sales and accounts receivable that had been there for years,
but nobody had actually taken the time to say, Hey,
these people basically each have these really interesting superpowers that
we're not using in the right way, and you need
to bring them together. So one thing is that it's
understanding that you have that superpower and knowing, even in

(41:44):
the job that you know isn't your passion, even in
the job that you know you're in there really for
the paycheck, how it is that you're somehow using that
that superpower of yours. So that's intentionality one. The second
thing is that you prioritize what you schedule. And this
is like a super micro thing. But your time is

(42:07):
your most precious asset, and how it is that you
choose to spend your time tells you what you value
and what you're using your time for. So you know
this means, for example, for me, being here with you
is super important for me. This is part of my
how to, This is part of my alignment, my purpose.

(42:30):
You called me yesterday to see if we could do this,
and I jumped on it as soon as I could,
because this is really important for me. This is how
I want to be spending some time right talking to you,
talking to your listeners, because this message is really important
to me that people hear it, right. So this is
part of my alignment, It's part of my how to.
I'm going to make that time for it, and whatever
it is for you, you need to make that time.

(42:50):
And it's not just about you know, I don't mean
it necessarily in the sense of like wellness, but a
really understanding in your gut that you are spending some
of your time doing something that is valuable to you,
even though the situation might not be optimal. And I've
been there, you know what I mean. I've been there

(43:11):
where you're you're you're tired, you're frustrated, you're taking side jobs,
odd jobs. I've had up to like four jobs at
the same time, you know, in my past, and it's tough,
but you get through it knowing that at least I'm
bringing a piece of me into this. You know, I'm

(43:34):
not just I'm not just a cog in the wheel.
There's something of value that I bring to this situation.
And that's what starts to fill my soul, you know.
And then little by little, as you prioritize, as you
make that space in your life, that starts to grow,
you know. And and the other thing super important, and
I'm going to mention it because I want to make

(43:55):
sure that we don't leave without talking about it, especially
as as Latinos, as bipoc black and brown folks. One
of the things that we're not taught to do is
to get in touch with our intuition. You know, we've
we've hinted at it, yeah, several times so far. You know,
you buying that multi use property, there was something inside

(44:19):
of you telling you, you know what, man, this is
this is right, this is what you do, you know,
and it's tough. We're not taught to do that, right,
in fact, you said it yourself. You had all of
these external voices telling you the opposite. Right, It's how
you're brought up with fear, right, it's it's one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
So much of our parents, of our parenting that we
were raised with was just based upon us being scared
of our parents, right, And that fear then begins to
cloud the actual instinct that you have, the gut feeling,
and you begin to like, you're not sure which voice
is the actual correct one, right, which is truly you?
That like that, you know, I don't mean to tell

(44:57):
you off, sorry, but that like screamed out of you
as you said that, like the fear that we've been
raised on, specifically in our community, that parenting style, I
think makes us question our intuition and therefore not make
decisions based upon what we truly.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Want one hundred percent, you know. And there's so many
layers to that, you know, so part of it is
exactly what you're saying. The second thing, though, is that
like all of our people come from our like our ancestors,
our traditions are based on intuition and a kind of
spirituality and a kind of group understanding. That one between

(45:35):
between colonialism and immigration and all of that has been
slowly stripped away from us and blows my mind, for example,
to see how it's the adoption of those practices have
somehow been repackaged, gate kept by by wealth and whiteness, frankly,

(45:57):
and then made inaccessible to us when it was ours
all along. You know, when we think about things like
meditative practices, when we think about breathwork, I'm a breathwork facilitator, actually,
and it's been one of the most amazing things because
it feels like coming home, you know what I mean
when you do this, It feels like, man, this is

(46:18):
what I'm doing because and it feels good because it's
the echoes of my past and my ancestors and this
ancestral wisdom that, holy shit, has been inside of me
all along. You know where has this been? You know?
So anything that we can do to start to strip
away some of the layers of emotional armor that we

(46:39):
place around ourselves, to actually listen to that gut feeling,
to listen to that intuition and start learning to trust
it as the truth and the wisdom that it is,
is what takes you to like quantum leap next level
and so it's so interesting. This is one of the

(47:00):
areas that I've been researching lately, Like as you talk
to or you as you listen to, or you hear
any of these huge like global stage hitters, like all
of them talk about how important it is to access
that intuition, to learn to listen to it and to
trust it and to take those actions. And I thought, man,
it's exactly what you said. I'm like, that is like

(47:22):
the opposite of everything that we've been taught, everything that
we've been told. When you talk about unlearning, you know,
and reprogramming and frankly decolonizing, Yes, that's a huge part
of it, you know. And for me, breathwork has been transformational,
like transformational, like the the ability to listen. And I'm

(47:42):
you know, I'm somebody who my brain doesn't stop, my
body doesn't stop, you know what I mean. I'm like
on the go all day and my mind is firing
and I you know, I'm doing all kinds of things.
So that space that you have to make for yourself
to just like earn all the volume down and actually

(48:03):
hear what's inside of you is so crucial. That's one
of the things that lets you you know what I mean.
It lets you like float for a second and see
over the surface of the water and see what else
could be.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
There, you know, Yeah, And I love that that visual
right there. You said of being kind of float over
the surface of the water and see what's there. And
I agree. I think, you know, we need that calm
and that presence of mind to listen to ourselves almost right.
And I want to There's so many other things I
can get into, but I want to touch on two
last things to what we respect for your time. But

(48:35):
I definitely want to get into the dr move. But
the one thing I do want to touch on in
between there because I think it's probably super relevant for
so many people in twenty twenty five. You talk about,
you know, you and your wife and your businesses relying
on these contracts that within the span of a few days,
your entire world is flipped upside down, right, And I

(48:55):
think I think most people have gone through those sort
of moments at the course of their life when there
have been big events in the world and in the
country that you can't really control, right. I think about
my father was laid off twice in his career. One
was nine to eleven the other was a two thousand
and eight you know, housing market crash essentially, and that

(49:17):
caused jobs and things like that to be lost. But
it feels like because of how quickly things are moving
in today's world, be it the unstable powers that be,
but I think also just how quickly technology is advancing,
it feels like these sort of rug being pulled from

(49:38):
under us moments are happening far more often, or feel
like there's far more opportunity for them to happen. So
I'm curious for you, having gone through that, how do
you sort of, you know, maybe what do you learn
to sort of try and be a bit more proactive

(49:58):
or protect yourself from inevitable you know, things like these
this happening that are really so far out of your
control and you have no time to really plan for it.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
That's a great question. I mean, it's definitely something that
that is a very specific question that we've been pondering
the last couple of months. You know, because we we
built our business thinking that we were diversified, and we
built our business thinking that we had insulated ourselves against
a lot of these sort of potential shocks that that

(50:30):
could come, you know, and I mean you know what
I mean, we never would have it never could have
been in our realm of possibilities. What's actually happened? Sure,
you know, like like you know, the dismantling of an
entire agency of the government not something that was in
you know, in my card deck, you know. And and

(50:53):
the the tone that would that would back it not
something that that I could have anticipated. I think that
that as we're moving forward and picking up and and
I keep wanting to say reconstructing, but reconstructing isn't exactly
the right word, because it's still us, it's still our

(51:15):
core sure, right, and so it's really about finding really
who our client is, who our avatar is. That's been,
that's been, That's something that's been really important for us.
You know, like one of the questions that we've had is,
you know, we were providing services, for example, to the
federal government for a long time, and as we start

(51:38):
thinking about it, you know, we start thinking about you know,
we're all about diversity, equity, inclusion, we're all about advancing
collective power, we're all about basically spreading superpowers. And as
we start thinking about it, you know that that's not
necessarily the values of that institution that's not really aligned

(51:59):
with us anymore, you know, and maybe it never was,
and that maybe we were just doing that out of comfort,
and that's what we knew, you know. So one one
big thing is that I think we're focusing a lot
more on values alignment in terms of the way that
we're constructing our business plans, our marketing plans, and who
it is that we're trying to attract. You know, we've

(52:21):
said it very explicitly, especially in the last couple of months,
but we've said it very explicitly that we want to
work with people who want to do good in the
world that that you know, I don't necessarily want to
work with, for example, an entity that is completely focused,
exclusively focused on profit making. You know, because we've just

(52:43):
talked about it. I know what that perspective does to people,
and that's not what that's not where I want to be,
right So, so for us, the realignment of values has
been really really important. I think that we've doubled down
on believing in our value, our superpower, our community and

(53:07):
and frankly, we've we've talked for a long time about
the idea of collective power that you know, when when
I have a superpower, you have a superpower, and we
put it together, that's collective power, and that by far
has to be the best solution for us as a community,
as a nation. And that's that's really what what we're
focusing on, you know, And that's I hope it pays off,

(53:28):
you know what I mean, because that's my that's my
hope in humanity in a lot of ways, that that
by by sticking to what is value values for us,
value driven, heart driven, soul driven, what feels good to us,
I think is what's going to be right. And frankly,
so far, so good. I'm actually really really relieved, like

(53:52):
part of like after this whole morning period, you know,
you're like, well, this is you know, we talked about it,
my wife and I and this is what we want
to do, and this is how we want to talk
about our business. We want to start doing breath work
a lot more with black and brown communities, and you know,
that's we want to integrate that as part of our business.
And we want to make sure we don't stop talking
to the youth, which I know is so so much

(54:14):
part of that movement, and we really want to talk
to the change makers in the world, the one who
the ones who want to make a difference. And I
would say, just in the last week or so, we're
starting to see that shift coming around, you know, we're
starting to see some opportunities really start flowing to us.

(54:38):
And it's it's just heartwarming, you know, to see that,
you know, despite the rug being pulled out from us
multiple times, your superpower is still there, it still has value,
you still have champions.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
It's almost it sounds like it's a level of surrender,
almost right, And it's it's like, as you're saying that,
it's so funny because it I think it could sound
from the outside listening it can sound a little hokey,
a little campfire, you know what I mean, Like a
little stereotypical Yogi talk type of thing that like, you know,

(55:11):
we sort of look at and look kind of you know,
hold our nose up to. But it's so sort of
true because I think about you know, the particularly the
end of twenty twenty four. You know, I was at
a bit of a place of just feeling lost, right,
and a couple things didn't work out the way it intended,
and as I surrendered and just said let's get back

(55:33):
to basics, what what really at my core makes me happy?
Where do I feel like I'm delivering the most value,
Like what what will just bring the best version of
myself out? And let's not think about how we're monetizing
it right now, Let's not. Let's just kind of start
getting back to playing in the sand almost as a kid,
right and figuring that part out. And the irony is

(55:53):
the deeper I dove into that all of a sudden.
Now the opportunities that I had been like white knuckling,
you know, holding on for dear life and hoping they
would happen. Now they're beginning to flourish as I've begun
to just surrender into what naturally comes to me and
what naturally is bringing me joy. And again, I know
for a lot of people who are maybe still in
that morning period, this might sound that shit crazy to them,

(56:16):
but there is just something about letting go a bit,
and when you're in a mentally good place and you
are surrounded by what you love, things just begin to
be attracted to you, right And I think it's you
can use the simplest example. I think for people, it's
like if you're a guy looking for a girl at

(56:37):
a bar or a club. If you are sitting there
and your bored, your arms across, you look miserable, What
are the odds that the girl's gonna come up to
you and want to talk to you or interact with you? Right?
The best means of getting that interaction you're looking for
is by being the life of the party, by being fun,
by being somebody who others are looking and saying, hey,
I want to party with that guy, you know whatever,
Like that's why we came out as that fun, So

(56:58):
we should attach ourselves to the person who's actually doing that, right.
And I think that is so much of the recipe
for quote unquote success, but more in terms of success,
I mean happiness right and bouncing back from difficult events
because to your point, your superpower is always there, the
things that you're great at, right, the stuff that comes

(57:20):
naturally to you. Your ability to make money doesn't disappear
because now this opportunity is gone, right, your ability to
create those opportunities is still there, just might look differently,
you know, from moving forward and I think, yeah, no,
I love I love what you're what you're saying. They're
that sort of act of surrender. But I think in
a practical sense here, I want to close out talking

(57:42):
about this move to Dominican Republic, right, because to me,
this is the practical sense of how to put yourself
in the best position possible in terms of creating your opportunity.
And it's sort of the idea of addition through subtraction, right,
the idea of letting go of sort of the colonized mindset,

(58:02):
if you will, of the fancy car and the fancy
house in the right area code, you know, in the
right zip code, and getting down to basics of what
really makes you happy. And oftentimes we don't need as
much of the extra stuff as we think we do, right.
We don't need the particular salary that sounds sexy to

(58:22):
somebody when we say it out loud, right, And we
don't need as much of that. And when we begin
to subtract that, we give ourselves more time to be
active in the things that actually bring us joy. Right,
And that to me is I think what's inspiring about
people like yourself who break out of the norm. And
also this is like American exceptionalism that we believe every

(58:47):
other country in the world is like on a dirt
floor somewhere still, you know what I mean, Like that
they're all like that, they're all using rotary phones, like
that we are the only people on earth with like
running water, you know, Like that's like the mindset I
think we've been brought up in. So so I think, yeah,
let's close out talking about sort of that mindset you
had of being like, you know what, let's move to
a place that is cheaper and it has all the

(59:11):
other things. You know, Like I guess, yeah, I'll let
you explain that. For us, it's.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
It's a super fascinating place to be actually, and I
mean we we happen to be in the dr but
it could be almost anywhere in Latin America for sure.
And and Latin America is characterized one by actually quite
a bit of economic inequality. So there is fantastic wealth
here and then and there's tremendous poverty. You know, there's

(59:35):
a there's a there's actually a Maserati dealer here, there's
a Lamborghini dealer here, and then there's also you know,
people whose children walk around with no clothes, and you know,
and there's everything in between. However, for us, you know,
it's it's important for for my wife and I one

(59:56):
to live in a place where we feel good. And
you know, part of that is, for example, that as
a as a brown guy, nobody looks at me funny here,
you know, so that that part is really important for us.
It's really it's really important for us also to be

(01:00:16):
in a place where we where we are culturally comfortable
and culturally competent. And that matters too, you know. And
and as having grown up as the as the child
of immigrants in the US, you're you're by definition in
sort of living in two worlds in a lot of ways.
You know. I grew up in Los Angeles, you know,

(01:00:38):
and and you know, you're Mexican as hell all day
long until you step out your door, and then and
then you kind of got to be as white as
you can. And then you're living you're living in that dichotomy,
and it feels really awkward. It's it's a weight, it's
a mental weight, you know. And we come here and
we shed all of that, and that's amazing. From from

(01:00:59):
the economic point of view, there is we here have
not experienced, for example, anything that I would call deprivation
at all, anything that that we're able to get in
the United States, we're able to get here, you know,
and and as it's pretty funny, like sometimes we complain

(01:01:20):
about for example, you know, the line at you know,
some government bureaucracy type place, and we complain about it
and we bitch about it, and then we go back
to Miami, where my wife is from. We actually split
our time between here in Miami. We go back to Miami,
and it's just as bad. It's the United States, and
you know, it's just there's there's nothing, there's nothing that
we're missing out on here. I love that my kids

(01:01:44):
are here. I love that there is there are no
school shootings here. School shootings is not a thing here.
I don't feel that, you know, And and how do
you put a price on that level of security, of
effort of knowing that I'm going to send my kid
to school and I feel good that they're going to

(01:02:04):
be safe and I'm going to be able to pick
pick them up in the afternoon. How do you put
a price on that? You know? So that's all all
of that, you know, I feel like we are we are,
we are living frankly way beyond here whatever concept of
the American dream. Just to sort of bring it back
to that, you knows, as you put together the American dream.

(01:02:25):
Here we have we have comfort, we have safety, we
have affordable luxury, we have you know, and then add
to that we have beautiful beaches and and bachata, you know.
So it's there's it's it's really the right move for
us to to to be certainly outside the US, and

(01:02:49):
and this place has become definitely second home for us,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
No, it's beautiful. I mean I feel the same way
with with with Puerto Rico, you know. And obviously for me,
my my family is is and you know, the what
We're fortunate that the house that my father grew up
mesel over the family. So I stay out there a lot.
And it's a similar like I find I was somebody
who's always like I would never leave New York City,

(01:03:13):
or I would never leave driving distance of New York City. Right,
I was obsessed with it. I love New York and
I still at my core love New York City, right,
and and all that the opportunity that is there and
the energy of it. But I also think I recognize
now what I've been sort of calling energy is really

(01:03:33):
like stress hormones more than anything, Right, it's like, like,
it's amazing to have these sort of like I feel
like I can survive anything mindset. I think that was
great for a point in my late twenties, early thirties,
but now that I feel like I've sort of developed
the discipline and that no longer serves me now. It
just stresses me out, you know. And that was that

(01:03:54):
was part of my move to the suburbs, where I
was like, why am I making every aspect of my
life that much more difficult, even just down to carrying groceries,
Like why every aspect of it is more difficult just
to be in the mix of it all. And what
I realized is moving to the suburbs and then spending
now so much more time in pr It's like, no,
you're not supposed to be stressed out on the go

(01:04:17):
all the time, wired into the the you know the matrix,
if you will right, You're supposed to be able to
have this downtime, this relaxation. And I notice a very
drastic difference in myself when I'm there in Puerto Rico.
It's I'm not in a rush to answer an email
that doesn't necessarily need to be answered right now. I
take care of what I have to do, and I'm like,

(01:04:37):
I want to go sit outside and enjoy my coffee
in the sun type of thing, right, And to me,
the ability to wake up every day and say that
that's actual success.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's not the having the name brand car in the lot,
or having the biggest house, or you know, living in
meatpacking district in New York City where that's impressive, or
the financial district or whatever. It's the real, just core
things that bring you peace at the end of the day. Right,
And to me, that has to be what takes over
as the next iteration of the American dream. If the

(01:05:10):
American dream is truly about, I think finding happiness at
its core. Right, it's not so that we begin to
replicate the stress environment that our parents grew up in
and worked in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
They were busting their ass every day and we've just
adapted that, but we wear a tie while doing it
instead now, right, Like, that's really what our generation has done,
and we're really missing the mark of why you're supposed
to work hard, right, And to your point, and we
can kind of close out here, but the idea that
we now live with this global world, that we're all interconnected,

(01:05:45):
and like you said, you have all the access to
any comforts that you want from the States. You have
it there in the dr It's a beautiful time to
start thinking do I really need all this extra stuff,
or maybe eliminate certain bills and open up more time
for what's actually important to me in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Exactly exactly, I think. What I what I appreciate most
is you bringing up this whole concept of sort of
beginning to redefine the American dream and what it is.
You know, when we when we think about like for
us as we as we talk about it, it becomes
basically understanding your superpower, learning to live in alignment with
your superpower, and then and basically seeing that fulfillment that

(01:06:28):
comes with it, you know, and the situation that you're
in for sure, you know, needs to be one that
brings you peace and safety and comfort and all of that.
But is it the case that all of that, as
you said, does all of that have to come with
the capitalist definitions that have been thrown on us? Not necessarily?
You know it. You know, I have actually a very

(01:06:48):
very good friend who just moved from California, one of
the most beautiful parts of coastal California, and she moved
to Spain with her family. And and it's fascinating because
it's it sounds exactly like how you described yourself. There.
She was so intense. It was just a constant intensity

(01:07:12):
about her that was constantly buzzing. And then I talk
to her now and there's it's like the whole like
the volume has just been turned way down, you know,
and that she sees a piece that she never conceived
of before. It wouldn't have been accessible to her before.
But she's very and I think so much of it

(01:07:34):
comes down to intentionality. She very intentionally went after that.
That's the lifestyle that she created. She intentionally let go
of a lot of the stuff, and at the end
of the day, the valuation of the stuff was kind
of holding her back. You know, once she, as you said,
surrendered that piece of it and actually could listen to, Hey,

(01:07:56):
what is it that I want? What is it that
is going to make me feel good? And what's going
to work best for my family, what's going to bring
me those community connections that I'm looking for? All of that,
you know, that's what that's what's valuable to her, And
you know, she she was brave. She did it, and
she's reaping the benefits of it now, you know, And
I think that a lot of people, it's not it's

(01:08:16):
not necessarily also moving abroad sure for everyone, you know,
that's a that's a pretty that's a pretty big radical move,
you know, And I get that, you know, I get that,
But I encourage people, you know, think about even the
small changes that you can start to make to bring
yourself into alignment. Think about the choices that you make.

(01:08:36):
Think about five years from now. Think about five years
from now. Visualize some ideal future for you, and what
does that day look like like? What does that day
look like? It's as you said, is it the day
where you start out and you walk out on the
terrace with your cup of coffee? You know, and what
what does that day look like for you? And how

(01:08:57):
do you feel on that day? Right? Because because really
at the end of the day, this success, this fulfillment
is about the feeling that you have and the impact
that you have on the world. Right, So really starting
to think about what's the feeling that I want to
create for myself, what's the impact that I want to
have on the world, And starting to gradually align your
actions with those things. You know. That's for me, That's

(01:09:19):
that's the ticket. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself, Doctor pau Rivera.
Thank you so much, man again for making the time
last minute. I feel like you you took this episode
to height said it would have with that, she said,
I really do appreciate you. What do you want to push?
I know you guys have the book. Anything you want
to want to push as far as what you're working
on currently, the book is still rolling.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
There's a workbook that goes with it. We've in the
time since I've talked to you, we've actually published the
workbook in Spanish as well, because, as I said, it's
one of the one of the big things that we
want to do, want to make sure we reach our community.
Our website is BacT change dot com. We're b dot
act dot change on Instagram. And really what we're really
pushing at the point is that we're trying to do

(01:10:02):
a lot more sort of speaking and workshops. We're speaking
at you know, like the New Jersey Education Association soon,
and you know, really trying to get as I said,
to a lot of these sort of heart driven, soul
driven positive impact kind of things. So anybody who's looking
for that, we're more than open to help.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Amazing, Well, thank you so much. Hopefully we'll have you
on again in the future, maybe under some brighter circumstances anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
This was amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Thank you so much, man, big shots of my guest
this week, doctor Paul Rivere, for hopping on the show.
I thought, like we just like unpacked so much. It
went over so much. I know it would be great,
but I think it was better than I even expected.
That's a testament to him and the work he's done,
and I think the relevancy of so much of this conversation.

(01:10:47):
Right now, we'll kind of tie everything to talk about
today in a neat little bow in a segment we
call conclusions too. But first to take a quick break
and then we'll be right back soon. All right, So,
like I had said in the interview, I think starting it,

(01:11:10):
I plan on kind of tackling this episode a bit
by myself, right because I think I am somebody who
has operated or sort of begun to say, like, wait,
the American dream is not feasible, or it doesn't look
like what I was promised, or I don't even want
what is designated as the American dream, right, So I

(01:11:30):
was I wanted to tackle this conversation even sort of
harder than I have in the past. And for me,
I then was sort of like kept thinking back to
conversations I've previously had on this, and Paul kept coming
up in my head. So I had to have him
on shout to him. I emailed him literally yesterday afternoon

(01:11:53):
and he was like, listen, I got a pack day,
but I can make time for you in the evening.
And I was like, say, less, I don't care. I'll
hang out in the studio all day and we'll knock
this out. So he just touched on a lot of stuff. Man,
I'm trying to like wrap my brain, and I'm super
energized by the conversation, if you could tell. But I

(01:12:14):
think I think for me, the greatest takeaway and what
I'm reminded of is our need to unlearn all of.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
The bullshit, our need to eject the voice of our parents,
of our friends, of the fucking television of TikTok like
ejected from our mind and try and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Get as clear as possible the authentic voice within us.
And again, I'm not woo wu fucking guy wearing a
drug rug, you know, smoking peyote and telling you, you know,
rainbows and unicorns are the answer to all your problems.
I know this type of stuff sounds and sounds weird,

(01:13:02):
but I'll leave you with the story, right And this
is why I'm so big on intuition right now. And
it's funny he brought that up in the amidst the conversation.
But intuition, to me, is like your most honest voice.
It is God speaking to you, the universe speaking directly
to you. And like I said in that conversation with him,

(01:13:27):
I've talked about how rough twenty twenty four really was
for me, how uncertain it was on so many different levels,
and how the things that the the thing has brought
me peaks and allowed me to begin to turn a
corner has been this sort of surrender into just being happy,
trying to do what brings me joy as much as
humanly possible, and ironically that has yielded me the career

(01:13:50):
opportunities that I had been sort of anxious about and
looking for. Right. And I guess the last, the last
thing I'm gonna leave you with is this story here.
Like I said, I just got back from being on
the road. I was in Puerto Rico, I was in Miami,
I was DJing. Originally that run of shows was just

(01:14:13):
supposed to be Puerto Rico. I was just gonna do
Puerto Rico and come right back home. And then I
was coming home the week of Miami Music Week, which
is a big music conference, winning music conferences out there
during Ultra Festival. Any of my EDM heads you guys
are familiar with that, and I've done this conference on
and off for probably about ten years, and it's always

(01:14:35):
sort of in the past, especially as I was coming up,
was a great way for me to network, to meet people,
to solidify relationships, to create opportunity. Eventually, I kind of
got to a point where it started becoming a bit
more of a party for me, you know, I wasn't
really making new connections. I kind of felt like I
was just going there to party essentially, right and I

(01:14:57):
stopped going. I didn't go last year, I think with
the year before for the first time in years, and
I wasn't gonna go again this year. And as I'm
looking at flights returning from Puerto Rico back to New Jersey,
I just was overtaken with anxiety. And I was thinking
about Miami, and something in my head was just like,

(01:15:19):
you have to go to Miami. And then I have
my mother's voice in my head, and I swear to you,
like my mother's voice the voice of my anxiety, right,
And a lot of that is the fear based upbringing. Right,
Like short antidote, I don't know how to swim, really,
and I owned a pool as a kid. I had

(01:15:40):
a pool in our backyard, right, And it's because my
mom was so scared of me drowning, she didn't teach
me how to swim. Think about the fucked up logic
in that you're scared of your kid drowning, so you're
just not gonna teach him how to swim, and actually,
now throughout the course of his life put him in
further danger to potentially actually drown and die if he's
swimming anywhere aside from under your supervision wearing some swimmys.

(01:16:03):
I was like ten years old, you know, wearing swimmys
for no reason. Dark times anyway, anyway, So the voice
in my head of anxiety is my mom's voice. And
so many times, as much as I've been a rebel
and I've not done what they've wanted me to do.
There have been so many times where I've given into
that voice, her voice in my head, and I've ignored

(01:16:26):
my intuition. And I'm really thankful that I didn't do
it this time, right, because there was a part of
me that was kind of like, listen, we're trying to
be a bit more financially responsible. You know, you're gonna
end up going out there. You're not getting paid to
be out there, You're gonna end up spending Miami is
fucking super expensive, right, it's stupid expensive. You're already out

(01:16:49):
there late, You're not you know, the opportunities for you
to maybe work there where you could have gotten stuff
paid for are gone. So there was so much of life.
And I was also like, how you to close your busines? Sorry,
my you help us. I have my dog to worry about. Now.
My parents are gonna taken for another week. I don't
want to hear their you know, complaining about that. But again,
my intuition was like, you have to go, and long

(01:17:11):
story short, it all worked out. I ended up going
end up getting booked for some gigs and getting some
paid gigs that I wasn't expecting. But the crazy part
is I ended up making like a huge connection out there,
and it's not a thing to talk about right now.
I don't know where it's going to end up to,
but it's literally like a game changing connection, one that

(01:17:32):
I've been sort of waiting for subconsciously. And again, I
almost didn't go. And if I would have listened to
the voice in my head, my mother's voice of anxiety,
I wouldn't have gone, and I would have been sitting
here without this opportunity that I just had a meeting

(01:17:53):
about earlier this week. And I think to myself, how
many times is that I do what was against my
best interest or against my own authentic happiness because I
allow the anxiety voice of my mother to beat out
my authentic voice. And the point of that, in the

(01:18:16):
context of what we're talking about, this American dream and
finances and where you live and the car you drive
and all these different things, so much of that shit
that only adds weight to our lives is the voice
of somebody else. The car you're spending a dumb amount
of money on is the voice of somebody else telling

(01:18:37):
you you need that car, Or the voice of somebody
else telling you nice car. The job title you're fighting
so hard for is not the job title that actually
makes you happy, but instead the one that will yield
you the voice of somebody telling you good job, or
will be you proving wrong, the voice of somebody who
doubted you right, and you're proving them wrong by taking

(01:18:59):
on a job that you don't even fucking like, or
by buying that house and living in that particular area.
And you know that none of this stuff makes you happy,
and your intuition is saying we need to change, we
need to change. But that other part of you, the
comfortable part of you, or the part of you that
is scared of the judgment, or is living the dreams

(01:19:20):
of your parents and can't say no, we're detached from that.
That part of you is holding you back from the
actual life that would make you happy. And that's why
I wanted to talk to him about living abroad, and
that's why I mentioned about me and Puerto Rico and
like so much of what I'm feeling around that, and
I'm still you know, I haven't pulled the trigger on
moving Puerto Rico permanently. There's a lot of loose ends

(01:19:41):
to tie up here. But again, when you begin to
open your mind and surrender to the possibilities of the
world and that your life might look a little bit
different than what you exc expected or what the other
people around you are telling you it's supposed to be,

(01:20:04):
you then begin to see the opportunities that lie out
there for you potentially, and also you begin to more
clearly hear your authentic self and what actually might make
you happy in this life. And that's what I'm trying
to sort of get at in today's day and age,

(01:20:26):
because so many of us are fighting for shit that
we don't even really want. We're fighting for a job
that we don't even give a fuck about. It speaks
to our passion in no way whatsoever. Right, We're fighting
for a salary just to drive a car that we
don't even really love, just to have a house that

(01:20:48):
you know it's cool, but like, it's not doing much
for our sense of fulfillment, right, And it's so much
of addition through subtraction, Right. The American dream is predicated
on more, more and more and having all the sort
of data points checked where real happiness lies in subtracting

(01:21:11):
the noise from your life, not adding more to it,
and I think that is what I wanted to get
out with today's conversation. I hope I was successful in that.
I hope, you know, again, to his point, moving abroad
is not going to be for everybody. It's not that easy.
But even for me, I left the city and moved
to the suburbs. And yeah, there's things about the city

(01:21:31):
that I miss and I love, but I'm leading far
more of a life that I would have never led
when I lived out there. People ask me all the time,
why do you live all the way out there? Because
I would have paid what I paid for this property.
I would have paid that for a mediocre apartment in
a transitioning area, a one bedroom apartment, right, Whereas now

(01:21:53):
the first purchase that I made, I ended up building
out my home, my dream studio, right, and then was
able to move on from from there as far as
living situation. But I now have far more of what
I want and and far more fulfilled. And yet it's
never gonna be perfect. No place, no area, is gonna

(01:22:15):
have everything that you want. And for me, this has
been a beautiful you know a few years of enjoying
the suburbs, enjoying having the studio space out here and
having businesses run out of this building and renting and
doing different things, and the next evolution might be even
deeper and deeper into my peace right. But my point
with all of this is is to challenge you to

(01:22:37):
open your mind beyond what you thought your life is
going to look like or is supposed to look like,
and understand that we're living in a world where there's
really no fucking rules anymore and nothing is for certain.
And if that's the case, I might as well double
down on what makes me happy. That's really what I

(01:22:58):
want to get at right the I'm gonna to quote myself.
I'm gonna end on this. I know I keep fucking
extending this, but you can talk. I was gonna do
this episode by myself because I have so much more
to say. But to quote myself, if you will. Many
of our parents came here, sacrificed everything, worked their ass

(01:23:19):
off to create something out of nothing so that we
can have a better life. But what have we done.
We literally have taken the same toxic work mentality that
they did out of necessity. We're now doing it because
we think it's the right thing to do. We're carrying

(01:23:41):
that same burden, but we're wearing nicer clothes while doing it.
We're wearing a suit to work instead of you know,
scrubbing the ground if you will. And for what they
actually had a real reason. They were trying to get
out of dire circumstances. And not to say some of
us aren't in difficult situations, but many of us are

(01:24:05):
killing ourselves for materialistic bullshit. What's the point If you
cut down your spending habit, you could be doing more
of what you actually want to do. You could be
having a job that pays you less but fulfills you,
but fills your cup. You could be living in an

(01:24:26):
area that actually brings you more peace if you weren't
worried about proximity to a big city or you know,
the size of a house or what township it's in,
or whatever the fuck it is. Right Like, my point
is the a lot of the American dream that we've

(01:24:46):
been sold is rooted in capitalism, which is rooted in
consumerism essentially, and not rooted in happiness and fulfillment. And
that's where we have to begin to focus. Let the
wake up call of the fact that you can't buy
the fucking dream home because nobody can afford it. Let

(01:25:09):
that be a moment where you stop and say, do
I even really want the fucking dream home? Do I really?
Is that really even what I want? Or would I
be happier living somewhere else in a smaller spot, But
at least like my money is going towards things I
actually want. Maybe I don't have to now work eighty
hours a week to fucking afford the dream home or

(01:25:30):
the dream car or whatever the fuck it is. Like
I'm gonna drive my jeep into the fucking ground. Like
I'm not. I refuse, I'm not getting caught up. And
there are times where I find myself being a little
bit caught up, right when the bullshit of the outside
world seeps in. But in the grand scheme of all,

(01:25:55):
the fact that I refuse to when my my lease
was up, I refused to go and just get another
fucking lease of an expensive, brand new car, and I said,
fuck that, I'm gonna save money. I'm gonna keep this car.
It's in great shape, it's a tank, and I'm gonna
keep the basic upkeep until this thing stops running. I
don't care. I don't need to upgrade or approve my

(01:26:17):
success through the car that I'm driving, you know, and
grant I'm not driving like a you know, a piece
of crap, but it's not a brand new car, the
twenty nineteen at this point, right, So pushing one hundred
miles on this bad boy. But old me would have
traded that shit in and got himself into fucking debt
on an expensive, you know, foreign car, because that's what

(01:26:39):
Dramas is supposed to be driving, right, And this is
what I mean by unlearning all this shit by not
doing that, Like the difference in car payment between the
Jeep and like the foreign car that I was tempted
to get, or that more expensive car that's literally a
plane ticket to Puerto Rico every month, the difference that
I'm I'm paying. I'd much rather drive the Jeep as

(01:27:03):
my daily driver, which I fucking drive barely anything because
I live right near the studio, so once a week
I have I have an actual commute. I and I'd
much rather drive this car into the ground and not,
you know, impress anybody with the car that I pull
up in if it means I can fucking catch a

(01:27:23):
flight to Puerto Rico whenever the hell I feel like it.
I'd much rather do that. That's actual happiness, that's actual success,
that's my American dream part of it. Anyway, I'm on
a whole tangent. I apologize. I'm yelling at you for
no reason whatsoever. I love you, but yeah, big shot
of doctor parr ver Faoppy on the show once again.

(01:27:45):
Apologies on leaving you hanging last week. Again. Literally, I've
been in bed. I was in bed for five days straight.
I still feel lingering effects of the flu. I'm still tired,
i still am congested as all hell. So I'm not
a hundred percent, but enough to do the podcast. With
that said, we'll catch you on Thursday for our Thursday
Trends episode again, more financial literacy episodes for all of

(01:28:08):
April on Tuesdays, and then yeah, we'll catch you on
Thursday for Thursday Trends as normal. So then stay safe,
we'll talk soon. Worse Life as a Grego is a
production of the micro Thura podcast Network and iHeartRadio

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Gringo's Guide To: Thinking Beyond The American Dream