Gringo's Guide To: Winning The Gig Economy Without Losing Yourself w/ Dr. Nika White

As part of Financial Literacy Month, we're breaking down the real story behind the gig economy with award-winning leadership consultant Dr. Nika White. From side hustles that build long-term wealth to the burnout and instability that come with hustle culture, this episode explores how people of color are redefining success.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Let me talk about there we go.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He said, you live in life pas a ringo where
you question where you fit in every time you mingle,
they say you do.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
This would not.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This life lingo. Yes, hello, and welcome to an episode
of Life as a Gringo. I am Dramas f R
S and he are still in April Financial Literacy Month.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I am. I think I say this all the time,
but I'm very excited about Telly the show.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Because I feel like the goal and I've said this before,
I restate it when it comes to my focus this
year for Financial Literacy Month, I just want to think
about it outside the box a little bit more raw
conversation and not just be dream selling or giving you

(00:57):
a bunch of h I don't know, just straight like
the things you could read off of a brochure or
a pamphlet or in a book somewhere. I want to
actually have real conversations that tackle every side of the
various conversations or various topics, if you will. And today

(01:20):
we're going to be talking about side hustles and gigs
and entrepreneurship, working for yourself and these you know, things
that we see on the internet from the self help
community and the entrepreneur bros. And all of the glorification

(01:40):
of the entrepreneurial journey, and not to take anything away
from it, I'm grateful that I'm on this pathway. It's
been difficult but incredibly rewarding, and I can't think or
envision myself living any other way. But there's a lot
of shit that I did not know, or a lot
of conversations that I didn't have access to or people

(02:04):
just weren't having about how truly difficult this path is,
what it takes away from you, the toll that it
takes on you. And I don't think I was mentally
prepared for it completely, even though I had a bunch
of experience, you know, since my early days of trying

(02:26):
to make it as a musician, since I was seventeen
years old, you know. And I wanted to have an
honest conversation about what it means to own your own business,
to have a side hustle, to freelance, whatever it might be.
And I had come across this article on entrepreneur dot
com specifically talking about people of color when it comes

(02:48):
to side hustles and gigs, and it was from doctor
Nico White, and I loved how she sort of tackled
it from all angles. She didn't give you this, you know,
rosecolored Glass his version of what it means to be
an entrepreneur. She gave you the good, the bad, the
ugly and had a real conversation about it that I
thought was fair and really put it into perspective the

(03:12):
difficulties of this journey. And I think a real raw conversation,
if you will, that I wish I had access to
when I was younger to maybe be more prepared, you know,
or even just a few years ago. So we have
her on the show today. I'm really really excited about

(03:32):
it to have this conversation. I think that it's going
to be really beneficial and I think there's a just
amazing education process within it. So without further ado, we'll
do it for you. Hint the segment my interview with
doctor Nika Whites.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
My guest today is an award winning management and.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Leadership consultants, a keynote speaker, published author, and executive practitioner
across corporate, government, nonprofit and education sectors.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Doctor Niko White, how you failing?

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I am feeling great. Thanks for having me. I'm looking
forward to this conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Of course, of course, Yeah, we were talking a bit
off Mike before I turned on the camera, as I
was kind of brainstorming how I wanted to tackle Financial
Literacy Month this year. I kind of wanted to hit
it from a different angle than sort of the normal
you know, credit or real estate or whatever it might be,

(04:38):
and also just have real conversations around the positives and
negatives of sort of all that we hear when it
comes to building wealth. And one of those big conversations
is the idea of side hustles, and in particular, as
we sort of move into a primarily gig economy, as
for what a lot of people are sort of p

(05:01):
I found this article that you had written for for
entrepreneur dot com that I found to be sort of
really profound, and I thought really tackled this from both
the good and bad side of this idea of the
gig economy, right, And the title of the article is,
people of color are building wealth by working side hustles,
but here's why the gig economy could be hurting them too.

(05:21):
And I love these types of conversations because I think
in the social media era that we live in, everybody
sort of paints the world with this sort of rainbow,
beautiful aesthetic as far as entrepreneurship and side hustles and
building your own business, and because of the tremendous amount
of opportunity there is to build wealth or build extra
income via the Internet, we sort of glorified and don't

(05:44):
have real conversations about the difficulties or challenges that people
will face along the way. And I think as a result,
many people are you know, surprised when they go down
that route, or just sort of realizing it's not actually
what it's all cut out to be, right, And I
love having this sort of real conversation. And in the
article you reference and this as the twenty twenty three,

(06:05):
you say one in three Americans had a side hustle,
and you seem, if I'm not mistaken, I want to
speak for you. You have mixed feelings about side hustles
and this sort of I guess gig economy overall, So
I kind of want to start there, if you will.
What's your sort of takeaway elevator pitch when somebody asks
you your thoughts on the gig economy or the side

(06:26):
houst in general.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, So, well again, thanks, so much for having me.
I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation because I
think it's an important one. With a lot of things,
you're having to balance tension points, and that is what
I wanted to bring to this particular conversation. I do
believe there are a lot of positives and negatives, and so
let's first start with just understanding what is the gig economy.

(06:48):
It refers to the labor market and is characterized by
short term, flexible jobs. Often they are referred to as gigs.
We all are familiar with that term, but instead of
traditional long term employment, and with this model, oftentimes people
work as freelancers, independent contractors, temporary workers, and they are

(07:09):
getting their side hustle on, if you will, and they're
juggling multiple jobs for multiple clients and organizations. Some of
the common features that I think is important to just
level set and bring some context to this conversation about
the gig economy is that usually it's project based or
it's task based, right, So think about driving for Uber
or you know, delivering food for door Dash, or maybe

(07:31):
freelancing work with up work or some other type of organization.
It also leads to a good bit of flexibility, which
you know, I could consider that more of the positive side,
because people like to have flexibility and people want to
be able to choose and decide how much work they
do and even be able to increase and supplement their

(07:51):
income to make ends meet. But there's no traditional benefits
with it, like health care, you know, paid time off,
or retirement plans. So it really is just a way
to put some extra cash into your pocket. And so
when I think about that, when I talk about the
tension points, I also think that it's important to realize
this may not be consistent income, but it can be

(08:13):
if someone works it in that regard, So there's a
lack of job security, which is why usually there's multiple
of these gigs that people are taking on at a time.
So again I think it's important to recognize attention points
between the pros and the cons and how the best
balance that, which is why I talk about it as
kind of a mix of both the good and the bad.

(08:35):
But what I have seen that has been really incredible
and instrumental is that side hustles can incredibly increase the
wealth of potentially people who may not have even seen
themselves being in a predicament to where they had discretionary
funds or even just to meet their monthly bills. Right,
So it is making a difference. But when you consider

(08:57):
how hard they're having to work, how many extra hours,
the mental drain and the mental strength is definitely compromised.
And that's where I feel like we need to raise
a red flag just to say be mindful of this
as well.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think you hit on so many
different things. I kind of will also start I guess
you're specifically talking from the angle of people of color
in this article, and I'm curious, you know, from your perspective,
what are sort of the unique aspects of this conversation
that particularly have to do with people of color.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yes, well, we know that history certainly has proven and
even present day has proven that systemic racism still exists.
And so in terms of people of color being able
to compete effectively in the marketplace by getting jobs when
it can be gainfully employed and paid comparatively to their
white counterparts, or even have upw mobility for increased revenue opportunities,

(09:53):
sometimes that is not necessarily happening at a rate and
a degrate in which they are deserving of and so
because of that, that's why these individuals have stepped out
and taken on these extra side hustles. I'm also keenly
aware that from an entrepreneurs standpoint, there's a lot of
things that can prevent people of color from being able
to really reach their full potential outside of even systemic racism.

(10:17):
For example, the lack of access to capital and lack
of access to capital is significant because it takes money
to be able to make money and to run a business.
And then secondly, I want to bring to the conversation,
maybe the lack of access to knowledge. Just because we
know our trade and our craft and we have passion
board and can do it well, does not necessarily mean
that we are equipped with the business savvy sense to

(10:38):
be able to grow and scale a business, build capacity,
and take that business to the next level. And a
lot of times those are just not the connection points
or the resources knowledge wise that we have available at
our fingertips because of again the systemic history of racism
in our country.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're hitting on a lot
of things.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think the lack of knowledge took out to me
because it resonates so much, you know, I think you know,
for me, I didn't grow up with parents who had
an entrepreneurship background. Right, I'm the first one to sort
of be able to work for themselves. And you know,
people that I met along the way who had parents
who were entrepreneurs and owned businesses, you know, throughout their

(11:16):
lives growing up, they had a very different understanding of
basic things like accounting, right. Their their parents who owned businesses,
you know, often had accounts on retainer, right, their own
personal account, and to help them each month and manage
things and tell them, you know, how much need to
be put away and all these different things, where for me,
I'm using you know, I originally tax pros, the normal

(11:40):
you know, chain chain things that are sure they're there,
they'll get you by, but they're not going to optimize
and set you up to really take advantage of the
positives that come from being an entrepreneur, right, And that
lack of knowledge, you know, I had to sort of
realize that for myself. And if it wasn't for by
chance meeting people and befriending people who's parents had that

(12:00):
experience and realizing, wow, they actually have like all on
staff essentially somebody they can always go to to refer
to to find out, you know, what's the best practice,
and I'm sort of just fumbling and bubbling something that's
incredibly important, like taxes or write offs or all these
different things, and that, you know, is incredibly frustrating because

(12:21):
it means that, you know, I lost a great deal
of potential income or write offs or benefits of being
an entrepreneur for years just because of my ignorance by
proxy of not having anybody around me who had that
experience prior to me.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
That is so many people's situation, but it's particularly pervasive
within communities of color. I can it to almost first
generation of college students, right for those you know, individuals
who are privileged to be able to have the opportunity
to go to college. If you're at first gen. What
we've learned a long time ago is that oftentimes the
matriculation towards degree completion is that percentage is decrease for

(12:58):
people of color because usually they are the first gen.
They don't have a resource or a lifeline they can
reach out to to say, Hey, I'm having issues this
conflict that I'm trying to manage with my professor. I
don't really understand how to manage my study habits while
I'm working at the same time to pay you know,
while I'm in school. And so when they are met
with those challenges, who do they go to. Usually they

(13:19):
try to figure it out on their own, and so
without those resources, they aren't able to be successful. And
so when we align that and see it the parallels
to that example to what's happening as first generation entrepreneurs
with the side hustle, and maybe it's even you know,
an opportunity where this is their only way because again,
a lot of people lost their jobs, right and particularly

(13:40):
people of color were directly impacted more so than the
non people of color during the pandemic. And even now
when we see all this happening in this political realm,
there are a lot of people losing their jobs. So
they are forced to take on you know, leveraging the
gig economy kind of structure and being able to connect
to support their families. But now the challenges of having

(14:02):
to not have access again to capital, to key information.
But that's changing because again, when we saw that the
pandemic produced so many people of color that were starting
their own businesses, it was it was exciting. It was
something that people then began to notice, well, if they
can do it, maybe I can do it too. And
so we're finding that there are a lot of organizations

(14:25):
that have been providing support by developing these incubator type programs.
For ten years, I ran a minority business accelerator program
which was just specifically for the purpose of taking high
potential minority owned businesses, putting them through an ecosystem where
they were receiving targeted training, technical assistance, connection opportunities to
keep procurement leaders just so they can have a chance

(14:47):
to compete effectively. But without that ecosystem of support, many
of those businesses would not still be in business today.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, and I mean even the idea of information. I
was ignorant of things like that even existing till just now.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
So it's this cover of being able to have these conversations, right,
is a privilege and something new for many people, myself included.
All right, we'll pause here, will take a quick break,
and then we'll be right back. All right, we are
back now. In the article, you reference the idea of capital, right,
and it's been proven that minorities have a harder time

(15:24):
accessing capital, a harder time accessing traditional loans for their businesses, right,
So oftentimes they are relying on whatever rainy day money
they have put away, or family and friends who are
pulling their resources together, and.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
That potentially is putting them at risk.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
God forbid, something goes wrong with the idea, doesn't turn
into what they want it to be, where it's no
longer sort of the bank's money, but you actually just
ruin the lives of friends and family along the way, right,
And there's an extra mental burden that goes along with
I think that pressure. But then also if that sadly
becomes the reality of having to deal with the fallout
of that as well, I'd love to speak to that
a bit as well.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
It's what we have been come accustomed to, particularly from
a marginalized space, you know, because people of color have
always had to endure a lot of trauma. But we
have learned to be able to hold both trauma and
joy at the same time, just for survival. So that
level of resilience is built in us because it was

(16:23):
a part of how our ancestors showed up. But again,
as if we look at today and we look at
the mental health issues that are taking place due to
stress and stress related diseases that are impacting communities of color.
We do have to weigh is this worth it? Are
there other ways in which we can get at our
end goal without it potentially compromising our bodies right and

(16:45):
costing us our lives. And that's why I think that
the mixed message of let's kind of weigh and understand
both tension points was really important for me. And I
think it's also important to bring to the conversation that
when you don't have access to capital and you are
trying to, by any means necessary, make your business work,
make it grow and be profitable in scale, then you

(17:07):
often find that you will underprice yourself. And that's such
a precedent and so it almost starts this vicious cycle
of creating other challenges for a lot of minority businesses
that they can't necessarily overcome because we know, sometimes once
you brand yourself as an entity that is, you know,
low costs, then people come to expect that and so

(17:29):
being able to compete effectively. You know, while you may
be getting the business, do you know enough to be
able to realize that are you really making profit or
are you breaking even or are you even losing money?
And again, those are just some of those lessons that
sometimes we don't know about. The Other point I think
is really critical as well, is that the community and
connection is so is so important because we don't know

(17:52):
what we don't know. So if you're an entrepreneur, sometimes
that can be very isolating, and particularly for minority businesses
who don't have these why networks of other entrepreneurs in
which they're connecting with, So that sense of isolation can
also weigh heavy on those communities. And so I also
think that it's important that these incubators are providing that

(18:12):
level of community and connection to be able to say, hey,
I've tried this and it worked for me, maybe it'll
work for you. Or here's a lesson that I wanted
to share so you can try to avoid it creating
challenges for you. That isolation piece is important to the
conversation as well.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, I think that's a great point because I think
oftentimes their mindset often is I have to go out
this alone, right, there's you know, nobody can help me.
I'm I'm on my own to figure all these things out.
Or you know, the idea that being self made quote
unquote right, and it's sort of a ridiculous notion because
I think we've attached the stigma of, you know, somebody

(18:49):
who is not self made that they you know, had
some sort of trust fund or whatever it might be.
But the reality is everybody, regardless if they you know,
are successful through their own means, had somebody who helped
them out with advice along the way, or their first
sale or whatever it might be, or pitch them to
a potential client, you know, on their behalf. Everybody had

(19:09):
some sort of help, even if it wasn't monetary, right,
And we get so caught up on ego and pride
and the idea of wanting to do it ourselves that
we don't realize that we need that access to community
to your point, you know, or even whether it's resources
online of joining groups and just being able to share information.

(19:30):
You know, that is what people who have been successful
in business, they've had that sort of access along the way.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Even those who are quote unquote self made.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
No one gets to where they are on their own.
There's always going to be someone that can be attributed
to their success, even if it's just knowledge sharing or
support and encouragement. I mean, sometimes you know, you need
that pat on the back to say, keep going right,
and so I am real big on community. Let's just
share it that I'm showing up to this conversation to

(20:00):
not you know, being someone that writes for entrepreneur and
a you know, diversity, equity and inclusion practitioner who writes
often about topics that are of of you know, importance
to different marginalized communities. But I am talking from direct experience.
The reason that I am an entrepreneur has everything to
do with proximity to people that are close to me

(20:20):
and my family that have had entrepreneurship as part of
their journey. But I'll share a quick story. My daughter,
who you know, got her master's degree from London School
of Economics, you know a few years ago, when she
was making decisions about where to plant herself after she
completed her degree, she had so many opportunities, including one

(20:41):
with a very notable firm where she was going to
be making six figures, and she decided that, you know what,
I have seen my mom and my dad both run
and scale and grow businesses. Why would I take my time,
my talent and then go and apply it to another
company another organization. I want to stay and I want
to help build the family enterprises. And I wait that

(21:03):
conversation to this how long today because I think also
we have to be willing to pass that knowledge. Now
what you see is often what you feel like you
can applicate, and that is how we can begin to
build wealth as a community of people. And so I
just wanted to share that as well.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, and I love that, And actually it brought me to.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I think a topic that maybe a lot of people
who are excited by the idea of working for themselves,
maybe they don't truly want to look in the mirrors
and really ask the question.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
It sounds great on paper, but is this really for me? Right?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Because I think again, in the social media era, it's
like we're shaming people into saying if you are working
a job where you're working for someone else, there's something
wrong with you. You're there's so much money to be
made out there, you're an idiot if you're not out
there making money, right, And it's such a ridiculou notion
because the reality is you have to have a certain

(22:03):
type of personality to be an entrepreneur, and one is
not better than the other of being an employee or
being an entrepreneur. But I feel like a lot of
people don't have that honest conversation with themselves about am
I really cut out for this, Is it really what
I even want at the end of the day, or
am I just sort of doing it for pride? And

(22:24):
you know, because I hate my boss essentially, right, And
I'd love to hear from your perspective how somebody can
have that real conversation to figure out if this is
really the route for them.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, this is a great question. You get into entrepreneurship
for a variety of reasons. One is to just support
their lifestyle. They're not looking to really scale and to
make tons and tons and tons of money. It's going
to be able to support their lifestyle, support their families.
We call those lifestyle businesses. But there are some individuals
that do see entrepreneurship as a pathway to building wealth.

(22:55):
Wealth that can create generational wealth, can be passed down.
And so I think that to your point of really
assessing what is my why for even considering this and
being mindful about all that that entails, it's not every
day joy, right, you know, there's a lot of pain
that comes with the entrepreneurial journey. You know, you have

(23:16):
days where you may second guess yourself. You have days
where you're challenged by cash flow issues or just decisions
that you're having to make. Entrepreneurs wear a lot of
many different hats, and so it's not just about knowing
your trade and your craft. It's also about building up
your leadership, skill sets, your resiliency, your ability to problem solve,
your ability to sail, I mean, all the things that
come with running a solid business. Now to your point, though,

(23:39):
that is not for everyone. I think having an understanding
of where our strength lies right and what we have
an appetite for, an emotional capacity for, is important because
otherwise we may find ourselves tapping into something that from
afar looks like it's the best case scenario for us,
and maybe really it's not, and then sometimes you may
just want to try it. That's why I think some

(24:00):
of these side you know, gigs are important because it
gives people a chance to test the waters while they
also and maybe another full time job or have other
opportunities of income, and then they can you know, realize
for themselves if it's something that they want to to
stick with. But there is no shaming, and you know,
with one's going the employee route or one's going the

(24:22):
entrepreneur route. We all have to make decisions that are
best for us by knowing ourselves well and our situations
and our why.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and I love that.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I love the sort of just the honesty in general
of the conversation where we're having right and to your point,
the lows that come along with being an entrepreneur inevitably,
you know.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
And for me, I've.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Changed my perspective on this a lot to be to
be honest, you know, I was always of the mindset
like fuck it, quit your job and just go, you know.
And it's not until I had a brutal year in
business of where nothing seemed to work at all for
the first time and basically, you know, my entire journey
that I recognize like, oh, there's you have to have
a certain stomach to be able to get knocked down

(25:08):
and kick like somebody kicks the shit out of you
and you still get up and ask for more, essentially right,
and that is it's a psychotic mindset that you really
have to love what.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You do and believe in what you do.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
And you know, to me, I personally can't foresee not
doing this right, not doing my media things and not
working for myself. I'd rather be in prison somewhere essentially,
you know. But again, you know, like, uh, it's it's
brutal right, even for me with that love I questioned
it along the entire way. Was almost ready to give up,
you know, after having one of one of those years.

(25:43):
And I feel like that is in a really honest
sort of conversation you have to have with yourself, like
am I willing to lose everything if it just to
try this out? Does it mean that much to me?
You know? And hopefully it doesn't come to that point,
but you have to love it that much because it
will beat the crap out of you at some point.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
It will. Reconciling that this may not work out is
definitely internal reflection that I feel like is really important
to have, not in a way to where it can
be you know, compromising of our psyche and our belief
and ourselves. We need to be able to bet on ourselves.
But it's more of a reality check and understanding of
all that goes into being able to start, run, scale

(26:27):
and build a business if that's what someone's desire is.
I think another really crucial point to bring to the
conversation as we think about the tension points of you know,
getting into the gig economy and having all these side hustles,
especially as it relates to communities of color, is that
communities of color when they are working for employers, we
hear stories all the time about how they feel so

(26:49):
compromised in the workplace. They feel unseen, unvalued, unheard, and
that weighs heavy on someone, right. We hear about workplace
toxicity all the time. So that's another reason why we've
seen such an influx and growth of people deciding, you
know what, I'm going to work for myself because I
don't want to have to endure the bias, the microaggressions,

(27:09):
the things, the unfairness, the inequities that can exist in
oftentimes workplaces, especially during this day and time where a
lot of organizations are devaluing DEI because of what we're
seeing within the political rend right, And so I think
that's important to bring to the conversation as well. Again,
it's another one of those pros, but it does not
necessarily take away the con of still having to address

(27:31):
all the other complexities of entrepreneurship.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
So yeah, yeah, no, I think that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
I think also to that point, maybe you're just in
a bad job situation that's not suiting you, right, that's
also an option to look at maybe maybe a different
career path, a different company, a different whatever, a different
corporate culture. You know that also, you know, it doesn't
just have to be my boss sucks. That means I
need to go into business for myself again with you know,

(27:56):
blindly just doing that again. It could just be a
change of scenery, that's right. And I think those are
real conversations again to be had. And I want to
go back to something you had mentioned as well, because
I thought it was it was really important, the idea
of undervaluing yourself and underpricing your services, right, Yes, because
I think often people of color struggle with imposter syndrome

(28:20):
right in these positions, and to your point, it causes
us to underprice and undervalue our worth essentially, which then
doesn't allow us to potentially scale a business, or run
a successful business, or be compensated properly for our time.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I think, you know, there's there's a lot of
you know, maybe unworthiness, but I think it it is
that idea of we don't see ourselves at the same
level oftentimes as our white counterparts, or that we don't
have the same credibility that they have because we don't
have this particular background that they have. Right, So I

(29:01):
would be curious, you know, if you were coaching somebody
sort of what would be your advice to sort of
not get lost in that trap where you're sort of
if you're lucky, just getting by because you're not charging
what you're supposed to charge for your goods and services.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
So I talk about this in the article, and I'm
so glad that you amplify this point because I like
to refer to imposter syndrome as a misdiagnosis. And I
say that it's a misdiagnosis because the imposter syndrome that
we may feel that we have, that we may perceive
is real, has nothing to do with us, but has

(29:37):
everything to do with what society has presented to us
about ourselves. So we need to refute that thought. We
need to see it as a misdiagnosis. That's not a
part of my story, that's not a part of how
I want to show up right, because that is damaging
to our psyche and the mental capacity for us to
really have belief in ourselves and to think with clarity

(30:00):
that we can be successful. So that's the first thing.
The next thing is, I think it goes back to
some of the strategies we talked about before. We have
to surround ourselves with people that are really for us.
They want to invest in our success. We may be
starting out with our side hustle. Maybe someone that we
know is you know, four or five years ahead and
they could be a resource around how did they know

(30:21):
structure their pricing you, how they negotiate right? Because negotiation
oftentimes is a big part of it. Are they equipped
to be able to know what to ask for in
terms of the terms when they are entering into relationships
and partnerships. Sometimes companies will say no, it's going to
be sixty days net. Well maybe they can't wait sixty days,
Maybe they needed fifteen thirty days net. And so I

(30:43):
think it's about being exposed to information and it takes
a village. It takes all of us who have any
type of knowledge to be willing to not hold that
close to the chest, but to share that. And I
will say this too, if you are new and you're
just starting out, there's nothing wrong with you being able
to have pricing that at least gives people the entry
to test you out right to see if they want

(31:05):
this to be a long term partnership. But communicate that
this is an introductory kind of new relationship pricing. It
is not going to be this way going forward, because
the big challenge is that when we start out as
a discount brand, if you will, that's when people start
to expect that, and that's where really the challenge is

(31:25):
come in. But just being communicative about and starting out,
I knew I have an introductory pricing and then really
leveraging that is a way to be able to scale
the business by shifting and revising pricing when at the
appropriate time.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
And I also think you you'd mentioned when you're talking
about like a company might say, oh we're net sixty
or thirty whatever it might be. Nothing is set in stone, right,
And I think that's the other thing that, like I.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
Was saying, say, okay exactly, I lived in fear of
if I express, you know, my opinion and wish to
do something a different way, they're gonna pull the deal
off the table, pull.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
The opportunity away, right, And that causes you to get
in situations that you're not completely comfortable with.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
And it's not until again, years of doing this and
going back and forth and like being negotiating contracts that
I realize doesn't matter if they have it written down
on paper and they hand you the contract.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
You can push back on things.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
You have the ability to do so, right, But I
think we live in fear of losing the opportunity. And
the unfortunate part about it is those who are experienced
in business are trying to pray on those of us
who are scared to lose the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
They're trying to take advantage of that and present you
with oftentimes the worst terms possible because they know you're
probably too scared to push back and they're going to
get that extra, you know, little chunk out of this
that they wouldn't have if you were actually an experienced negotiator.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
And sometimes we don't realize this, but sometimes people aren't
just atting their decisions based upon the lowest you know,
the lowest bid you know. In fact, there's a lot
of studies and research out there that says you can
garner more support and respect when organizations are seeking quality
when you aren't coming in at the bottom of the

(33:16):
barrel every single time, right. Not everyone is looking for
a low cost option. They're looking for a fair cost
option that is commiserate with the value of what you're bringing.
So then that goes back to the knowledge and the
upskilling and the training. How are you delivering your services
or you're doing it in a way and or are
you equipped to do it in a way to where
you can align your fees appropriately with what's commiserate to

(33:37):
what you are delivering. The other thing is we can't
forget that sometimes partnering can also be our way, our
entry point. Maybe you don't have a capacity to do
it on your own, but perhaps there's a buddy that's
in a similar space that have different skill sets, right,
and the two can partner together to be able to
go after certain opportunities. And so you have to at
least try that you know the answer, maybe know at

(33:59):
the end, but at least you understand that and you
know that, right, but always always try. And I think
that we're seeing an increased value of small businesses among
a lot of large companies because they realize that small
businesses employ so many people in society, and so there's
a recognition of the importance of the value of small businesses.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
All right, well pause one more time, tea quick break,
and then the rest of our conversation with doctor Nika Whites.
All Right, we are back now, for better or worse,
as we move towards a gig economy. You know, a
lot of these companies are trying to cut expenses wherever
they can, right, and unfortunately it employees viewed it as

(34:41):
an expense, right, And how can we get as much
out of these employees by providing as little as humanly
possible is sort of how they optimize their corporate structure
in this capitalistic society that we live in. And one
of those things is, well, we can just hire gig
workers that we don't have to pay any benefits to
that you know, it's a contracted rate or whatever it

(35:02):
might be. We can cut them at any time if
we deem it necessary. And I think, unfortunately a lot
of companies are sort of moving towards that structure.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
So I guess anybody that is.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know, after hearing this conversation rights, we talked a
lot about a lot of the negatives of this whole
idea of side hustles, or if your industry is becoming
more gig based rather than full time based. What are
some of the things that people should do to kind
of mentally prepare themselves to be as successful as possible

(35:35):
in potentially working for themselves or having to switch from
a full time structure to a gig structure.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah. I think this is a really important question that
can lead to some insightful assessment. Internal assessment first is
just you know, beginning to be very thoughtful. You start
documenting what are your skill sets, what are your interests right,
and then aligning those and skill sets with a firm
Why why do you even why are you attracted to

(36:06):
this idea of the gig economy and having kind of
multiple opportunities that you can tap into. And for many
the simple answer is flexibility. You know, I get bored,
maybe I don't like doing the same thing every day,
going to the same place. I like the variety, and
so that flexibility could be a high priority on the
list of what attracts them to that type of situation,

(36:26):
and that can help to inform you know how to
best position yourself. I also think that if there's an
area where you feel like there's an opportunity because the
market is asking for it, there's a demand for it,
then be willing to maybe invest the time to upskill yourself.
You know. I am hearing a lot of employers these
days talk about how they're moving completely away from this
requirement of a four year degree and they are very

(36:48):
much prioritized around we want people that go to a
trade school. We want people that have completed, you know,
got their degree maybe from a community college, because it's
those skills and those specialized training and trades that they're
really interested in. And so, you know, again, I think
we have to all assess that what maybe in the
past has been always the approach as the leading practice.

(37:10):
You know, I always say leading practice and not best practice,
because then you have to say, well, best for whom
And that's my point here. We have to each assess
what is best for our individual situation and so and
then talking with people, seeing what opportunities are out there,
you know. And the great thing about the gig economy
is that you have greater flexibility to try different things

(37:31):
because again they're temporary. There may be project based to
see if it's something that you want to maybe pursue
long term. So it's actually it works for those who
are interested in that type of lifestyle, and I'm finding
that a lot of the younger generations, that's what they
don't want to be tethered to one specific organization where
they have to show up to the workplace in person

(37:52):
from a nine to five. That is not what they're
seeking at all. So there there's a market for the
type of individual that I think is a ken to
all of the benefits that not a side hustle or
a gig economy can't allow for.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, and I think also.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
You kind of touched on it, but I think there's
also because companies are not as focused on college degrees,
four year degrees and sort of these prerequisites of I
guess traditional academia, if you will, They're more focused somebody
who has experience or who has a portfolio that could
showcase they can do exactly what that company wants to

(38:30):
do at a high level.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
They have a great opportunity there.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
And I think as much BS as social media and
technology brings, it also potentially connects you with anybody you
want in the world. Right so I've personally seen this
in testing it. You can cold email somebody and deliver
a pitch to them of a problem you want to
solve for their company or their brand, and maybe nine

(38:54):
out of ten times you're not going to get a response.
But again, is that old sayings goes, you just need
one yes right at the end of the day. And
any any company leader who is you know, actually trying
to do their job well, is not going to pass
up somebody who actually sent them a concise email and
showcased the ability to see a problem and uh, the

(39:14):
sort of background and ability to actually handle that problem. Right.
They're going to want to at the very least meet
you and figure out who is this person that is
blind the emailing me?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
And I think that is also something that like people see,
it's just unheard of to a lot of people, right.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I have that conversation with.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Friends and like what you emailed the you know, the
CMO of this company an idea for what they're pitched.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Of course I did. I have experienced in it.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
I like the brand, let me pitch them and see
if we can create something right, And again doesn't work
every time, but I've seen success where now this brand
is interested in working with me in one of my
you know, creative tasks, and it's because of that cold
email and taking advantage of the tools that are you know,
available to all of us via the internet.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, and I'll say that while there's certainly a propensity
for some people to get the messaging just right and
the timing just right to where a cold email could
certainly elicit a response, I also like to also encourage
so having a strategy, and part of that strategy is
really building up your personal brand. You know, what you
want to be known for. What spaces are you showing

(40:16):
up in. To make sure that you're visible and that
people are associating you and your company, your side, hustle,
your business, whatever it is, so that when they are
in the moment of need, you will be top of mind.
And so the level of consistency around just having a presence,
even if it's just social media, you know, pick one
or two of the different social media platforms that you
feel like is going to best reach your audience, and

(40:37):
then start there and just really be consistent in your
messaging and allowing yourself to be seen as a go
to for whatever kind of space that you're in. Don't
try to be all things to all people. I think
that that's also really important sometimes we can, you know,
just an attempt to leverage all of our skill sets.
Just because you can do everything doesn't necessarily mean that

(40:57):
you should be and so that's another thing. And lastly,
I'll say, find something that brings you joy. You know,
if you're going to have a side hustle and you're
going to maybe be a part of the gig economy
where you're touching a lot of different things, make sure
there's a connection point to it. And I say that
because while maybe the motivation is I just need to
have multiple sources of income to support my family, that's

(41:19):
one direction. Another is, because we have named the challenges
in terms of the mental stress and all of those things,
it is important to at least be aligned with something
that can help round us and center us because we
have a level of pleasure or enjoyment and what we
do and what we're offering. That's important too.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, No, absolutely, And I think.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
The other side of it, which you talk about in
the article is the mental health aspect, right and burn
out in these different things.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
And I think when you're in.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Your twenties it's a little bit it's difficult regardless of
how old you are, but when you're in your twenties,
you don't have as many responsibilities that you also have
to carry on your back while trying to.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Build up this business or this entrepreneurial journey. Right.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
And as you get older and you have a mortgage
or you have rent to pay, you know groceries, you
have a dog, you have kids, you have a spouse,
whatever it might be. All these things are beautiful, but
they also can create tension in the journey of being
an entrepreneur, which requires you to give so much of yourself. Right,

(42:25):
So I'd be curious how maybe even you have found
the balance, especially those early days where they do require
the long days, the late nights, early mornings, right that
you can't really escape it.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
How do you do balance.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Adult life, if you will, while trying to make this
happen healthily.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Well, first, I'll challenge the notion that maybe younger individuals
that don't necessarily have a mortgage or some of the
other things that you named, are less inclined to fill
the pressures of life. I'll think that they fill them equally,
they're just different or different pressures, right, And so I
really believe in starting in people when they are young
around you know the mental strength and the importance of

(43:04):
taking care of self radical self care. For me, I
have really embodied that in many different ways because I
know that burnout can be right around the corner if
I'm not diligent and intentional about radical self care. And
so what that looks like for me is just having
a clear understanding of what are my triggers, what are
the triggers that can lead to burnout, and how do
I safeguard from those those triggers continuing to manifest. And

(43:28):
so for me, I do a lot of health and
fitness and so I take vitamins, I work out. I
do step away from work when I feel like I
need a break so that I'm not just constantly focused
on work alone. So there are some other hobbies and
interests that I have. I have an emotional regulation coach.
I go to therapy routinely. I mean, so the list

(43:49):
goes on. I am a devout, you know, in my
faith and my belief, and so I draw on that inspiration.
But we each have to again assess for ourselves what's
going to allow us to be whole and grounded and
centered so that we don't becomeforent out, So that we
are able to self soothe when we find ourselves really
in those times and moments where it feels like we

(44:12):
can't go on. So I think that's critically important, and
having the support system can also help with that too.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's also you know, what you're
sort of speaking to is being unafraid to hit pause
on the part of you that is, you know, the
overachiever almost right, And that is is incredibly hard because
I know for a fact, if I took when I
take time for myself, not so much anymore, but in

(44:40):
the past, I would feel guilty, you know, like I'm
not working as hard as other people in my field,
you know. Or I'd have Gary Vee's voice screaming my
head that I don't want it bad enough because I
took off a day after you know, working six months straight,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
And it's not self indulgence, yes, yes, exactly, the mind
to have Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
One ten percent.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think that's a great, uh sort of quote to
put put in your head when you do have those
those feelings of guilt. Like yesterday, I've been going for
like a month, street I just I decided, I was like,
I'm gonna take off Monday, and that's it.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Phone is on airplane mode and I'm good.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
And throughout the day I was itching to do stuff,
and I felt a little bit of guilt, but you know,
I woke up feeling way better today, right Like, Yes,
I rested and I felt replenished, and.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
I was ready to hit the ground running on everything.
And it's you know.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Proof to myself that while in the short term it
may feel like a setback quote unquote to take that
day off and not answer those emails, it actually is
going to propel me two more steps forward when I'm
refreshed the next day to actually, you know, tackle everything.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
And I think that's also.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
The the other part about is feeling comfortable saying no
sometimes as well.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yes, when you say no, you're setting yourself up for
the right yes, and so we cannot feel guilty about
sessing our situation and knowing when to set no. You know,
self care is not just about taking some time away
and taking a nap, going to a bubble back, all
those great things. I mean, that can be a part
of it, certainly, but it's also about setting boundaries right
and communicating those boundaries. You know, I often use language

(46:16):
like I'm not doing this to you. I'm doing this
for me, just to be able to reiterate that it
may feel some way to you and that's not the
intent here. But if I am be charged and refueled
and my cup is full, then I can pour out
and be able to support you in a much more
meaningful way. And so give me this time. Rest is
not a luxury, it is a need. It is a necessity,
and we all deserve it, right. We treat it as

(46:38):
almost a reward. If I get this, this, this, this,
this done, then I can take a nap, then I
can sit down, then I can rest, then I can
maybe say no to the next project. And we can't
think about it in that regard, and unfortunately, that's what's
led to this burnout culture that so many people are
experiencing right now, whether they are an entrepreneur they're working
multiple side hustles, or they're actually an employee employee but

(47:00):
then an organization. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Yeah, And I actually something that just came to mind.
I had heard this quote from someone and it kind
of it rubbed me the wrong way a little bit,
and he was basically saying, if you have a side hustle,
it means that your main hustle is not working right,
And I almost felt like it was a cynical viewpoint

(47:23):
and almost a privileged viewpoint for many people, you know,
who are I live in the New York City area.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
You know it's expensive.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, I had a full time job, and thank god
I was also a dj R us I wouldn't have
been able to live close to my job, you know,
close to New York City. So I think there is
this sort of privileged viewpoint on a lot of those things.
And I guess what's your gut reaction when you hear
that quote that I just said to you.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Well, first of all, privilege is often invisible to those
who have it, right, So I want to put that
out there. I think it's also important to realize that
while that could be the truth, that could be the
case that maybe someone is working a side hustle because
maybe their main thing and I put that in air
quotes because you know, who knows that could be an assumption.
But maybe that's not working out as well for them,

(48:10):
so they're, you know, working out an exit or a
transition plan. Maybe also they're being underpaid and they just
really needed to be able to support their families, and
so we shouldn't make assumptions about it. But I do
think that it's important to reiterate an earlier point we made,
which is that there's no shaming. I mean, let's be
curious and maybe ask questions. Perhaps we can help, perhaps

(48:30):
we can be a resource instead of just you know,
making assumptions about someone's situation, especially when it's kind of
in a negative way. And I think that's something to
be said for how we can best support each other,
you know, when we are finding ourselves, you know, in
these situations of juggling a lot, because that's not easy
for anyone, right, it's not easy for anyone. Keep in
mind that when people are working a lot of these

(48:52):
you know, side hustles, they are sacrificing time away from family,
from friends, from things that maybe mean full to their
well being. And so again, let's be kind and not
make assumptions that could leave this negative connotation around someone's
decision and maybe the why behind it.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, I think that's a great way to look at
And you just touched on something else about it's time
away from your family as well, right for people who
are working these side hustles, And I guess you know
you talk about in the article that side hustles have
become tools for long term wealth building at the end

(49:33):
of the day, right, Yes, But I guess in the
context of that conversation as to what you're giving up
in order to do so, do you think we have
to sort of change our mindset, particularly as people of color,
or a narrative around the ideas of wealth building.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
So I think it's a both. And you know, I
believe that it's important to first and foremost have a
healthy relationship with money if you are seeking to build wealth,
because if you don't have a healthy relationship with money,
then no matter how much money you make, you are
not going to reach any kind of goals because you

(50:12):
won't know what to do with it, right, And so
that's the first thing that I will lead with. The
other thing is from experience, I can tell you that
being an entrepreneur has tremendous upside in terms of setting
someone up for success to be able to create wealth.
It has worked very well for my family, and I've

(50:33):
seen it for a lot of others that I'm in
community and connection with. But that's not the only way.
I also know of many families who have been able
to achieve a certain status of wealth from simply being
able to have up mobility within the corporate jobs you know,
or jobs period or this corporate or not that they've had.
And so I want to just make sure that I

(50:54):
am communicating that. But what I do firmly believe is
that we have to find wealth clearly, because if not,
then we can see wealth as something that even though
it may be able to be attained, it may not
create the type of output, positive output that we're seeking.
Money can also destroy us, right, And I believe that

(51:17):
part of that why you want to go after building wealth,
it needs to include so that we can help someone
else along the way. That has to be a part
of our trajectory in our mindset. And I say that
because wealth building is it should not be a situation
to where we're doing it just to hoard it for ourselves, right.
I think that where we can find a way to

(51:39):
make social impact, we need to be able to do that,
especially when I think about the those who are in
the margins, right, A lot of minority communities who don't
have anything. And so you know, my encouragement is that
if that is part of your pathway and your trajectory
and what you're working for. Then make sure that the
why also is because you want to be able to

(52:00):
get back and make a difference.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna agree with him percent.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I think oftentimes a lot of people and they don't
realize it, they're they're chasing a way to validate the
wounded child inside of them.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Almost. You know, many of us didn't grow up with money.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
We didn't grow up with the external signs of you know,
success with the cars, the clothing and whatever it might be.
And I think, without realizing it, we're chasing wealth, if
you will, just so weak can sort of we think
it's going to console that kid that didn't have the
cool sneakers that everybody else had, right and that the

(52:40):
kid that was looked down upon because maybe they had
the hand me downs or whatever it might be. And
I think, as we've touched on with a lot of things,
that's you know, you got to understand, what do you
is it really worth the sacrifice?

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Is is you having the external validation of people seeing
that you are a quote unquote success through material realistic items?
Is that really worth the level of sacrifice that it
takes to get there, be it your family life, be
it your mental health, be it your physical health, right,
and the just overall precious time you're giving up, right,
And I think to your point of having a why

(53:14):
and all these things, I think we have to get
very clear on our motivation, you know, and make sure
that it's not coming from a place of unhealed trauma.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
At the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Absolutely, and there is a heightened awareness of the dark
side of capitalism right now that we know is circulating
in people's mindsets, and with lots of evidence of how
that is showing forth right, And so you know, that's
why I bring up the social impact aspect of it.

(53:45):
The motivation and the why is really critical because if not,
we can find ourselves, you know, falling right to that
same mindset that you know, I put myself up by
my bootstraps. I earned all that I have, and so
everybody else needs to do the same. And I don't
think that's a society that's going to serve us best
at all.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, alutely lacks it, lacks empathy for the fact that
we all have humanity. Yeah, And quite honestly, you know,
without knowing these people from the outside looking in, many
of them seem visibly unhappy, even though they have more
than they could ever need, right because they're compensating again

(54:23):
for that trauma. And no matter the money, the status,
it's never going to heal that for you, you know, in.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
The physical sort of accumulation.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Of money and wealth will never heal that that personal
trauma that you're holding on the inside.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Absolutely, And that is one big motivator. So I'm glad
that you're naming that because it's important for us to
be aware of how that shows up as it relates
to our relationship with money and wealth building. Yeah, otherwise
we're going to find that it's going to have a
negative impact on us.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, absolutely, well, doctor Nico, I can I can talk
to you about this for for hours, but I want
to be respect on your time.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Where can people keep in contact with you?

Speaker 2 (55:02):
I know that you you know, you do consulting, your
keynote speaking, and you're doing different content.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Where can we push people to to check out more
of your work? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Well thanks, I'm just realizing that I didn't really I'm
sure you know enough about what I do and why
this topic of you know, just supporting people on the
margins and having conversations about how we can uplift just
all all people. Rising tielifts all boats. But it's because
I am a diversity, equity and inclusion practitioner. I have
a consultancy under my brand name, and we do a

(55:32):
lot of work around workplace culture, talent engagement, diversity equity inclusion,
change management, leadership development. But also that we can every
single one of us can find ourselves in spaces and
places where we're seeing herd valued and able to contribute
to full opportunity for success. And so you can find me.

(55:52):
My website is Nika White dot com and I KA
w H I T E dot com and that's also
where you'll find all of our social media links produce
a lot of content. Would love to be in community
with as many of you as possible who found this
conversation riviting. I know I did, so thank you and yeah,
I look forward to to being in touch.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, I love and the d I think it's so
heartbreaking the way that this terminology has been colonized to
be something that it is not.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yes, you know, and it's just crazy how fragile the.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Positive steps forward really are and how easily they can
be reversed in just a couple of months. It's almost
it's almost deflating as somebody who tries to advocate for
these things, right, and I can imagine for you how
so many works in this it's got to be incredibly frustrating.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yes, yes, it is definitely frustrating. But I will tell
you that no matter what we see in the media,
the media wants you to believe the doom and gloom,
and yes, they're probably in many companies who are pulling away.
So the fine print there to read it all, because
what I'm finding is that a lot of those companies
imagining just so that they make the work, and so
the work's not going anywhere. When we talk about diversity, equity,

(57:11):
and inclusion, and by the way, I do like to
use those words because the acronym certainly has been weaponized,
and I think each work carries a lot of power
when they're being stated. But it is about conscious leadership,
it is about humanity, it is about belonging and connection,
and so I think we're going to find that the
work is still going to continue. All it may look
a little different and may be referred to a little differently,

(57:33):
it's not going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I love that at a little positivity to end the conversation.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Yeah, it's absolutely thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Man, big shots of my guest this week, doctor Nika White,
for hopping on the show.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I hope it wasn't to do me a globy for you.
I feel we just had a real conversation, Like this
is my goal. I want these financial literacy conversations for
this month to feel like you're talking to friends and
family who've gone through it. They've seen some shit, and
they're really trying to prepare you for it. And I
really feel like that was sort of the the outcome

(58:11):
of this conversation, if you will, a lot of gems there.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
We'll tie everything we talked about today in.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
A neat little bow in a segment we called conclusion, Stu.
We'll take a quick break, and then we'll be right.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
Back time come.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Soon, all right.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
So first and foremost, I'm realizing now this is episode
ninety seven. We're doing one hundred and five episodes this season,
so I literally have eight episodes left of Life as
a Good and Go season three, which was fucking insane,
So just mentally preparing, we basically have a month of
shows left, which is just wild. But we'll get into
all what all that means, you know, further down the road.

(58:54):
But as it pertends to this conversation with doctor Nico White,
gigs and side hustles and entrepren norship and all these
different things, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Think, I just think it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Times that we live in, but it's also incredibly difficult,
and I never want to fool anybody into thinking it's
anything but that, right, And I guess for me, some
of the things that really stick out as it pertains
to the conversation just had it's the idea of looking

(59:34):
in the mirror and being very real with yourself about
if this is really what you want or what level
do you want it at, and there's no right or
wrong answer. And I know, you know, I've grown a lot,
especially over these last few years as to my positioning

(59:55):
in terms of telling people to go for it or
you know, I was always the guy who's like, fuck
your job, you know, type of thing. But having gone
through I think, like the Entrepreneur's write of passage in
twenty twenty four, you know, where with that I can't

(01:00:16):
divulge too much just because of partnerships and things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
But when I tell you, guys, I really didn't have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Many wins in twenty twenty four when it came to
my business. I'm blessed that I had enough things in
the fire. I had enough things to kind of carry
me over. But it was a brutal, fucking year of
twenty twenty four, like the probably least momentum year of

(01:00:46):
my entire life. Like it just seemed like every single
thing stalled. I couldn't get it right. And I look
back and I needed that time. I needed to have
find clarity on what I really wanted. To doctor Nika's point,
my my why wasn't clear to me anymore, right, And
I think I had to go through that hardship to

(01:01:06):
just stop and figure out my why once again. But
having experienced that year and the brutality of it, I
can honestly say this shit ain't for everybody. And I'm
not even saying that to puff myself up as being
you know, if you you know, as like, oh, I'm

(01:01:29):
I'm fucking so tough and mentally tough that you know,
it's like everybody else's weak if they.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Can't handle that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Guys, I really gave up. I was going to give
up on working for myself. I was like, you know,
fuck it, maybe this really isn't in the cards for
me anymore. Long term, it's a brutal year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
I would much rather be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
To count a paycheck again, you know, consistently, and have
the comfort of that a structure, if you will. And
thankfully again I sort of slowed down, figured out my why,
tried some things, and I feel like I've come out
on the other side.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I know I have this year, but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
You know, for me, it became clear that this is
what I love right then, no matter how much I
get beat up, no matter how much I try to
step away from it, it always pulls me back in.
I have a stomach for it because I do genuinely
love it beyond money. I love this journey and this

(01:02:31):
lifestyle very much. I love building things. I love you know,
tripping away at it daily. I would do this shit
for fun. I love going back and forth with chat
GBT on a fucking Sunday and just dialing in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
How can I be better at branding?

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
How can I learned about just going back and forth
brainstorming ideas as if it's like I'm in a corporate boardroom,
you know, trying to figure things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Out for my business. Like I love that shit. I
live for it. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I'm in Puerto Rico. I'm fucking you know, on my
computer at the coffee shop, you know, loving life doing
it there, you know, like it's all I want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
It's like vacation to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
And the shit that sucks sucks so hard, but the
positive does outweigh the negative, no matter how fucking brutal
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
But that's not for everybody, and that's okay. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
I was sort of always subscribed to the idea of
like anybody could do what I do, or anybody can
build it. And I think in various ways it's true,
but maybe not full time. Maybe it's just a side
thing that you don't have to count on and you
have fun with it and it fulfills you and it
fills your cup in that manner, right. But I think also,

(01:03:49):
I don't think nine to five corporate structure is necessarily
a bad thing. It's only a bad thing when the
culture and the environment and maybe the work are not
fulfilling to you or bring you down or don't bring
out the best version of yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
But there's no shame.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
In loving your fucking job and it being a nine
to five thing and being okay with that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
And that's something I've.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Learned or appreciated, Like I genuinely wish that I could
exist in that structure. My problem is I question everything
and I think I could do it better than everybody,
and not in a cocky way. It's just the way
my mind works. My boss tells me to do something
one way, I'm gonna figure out how to do it
another way, right, and you know, and I become angry

(01:04:39):
and resentful if I can't, and that's my personality, right,
for better or worse. I fucking can't exist if I'm
not the one making decisions. And that's why this life
is for me, as up and down as it might be.
It's the only thing that makes sense to me. And

(01:05:00):
it's okay if that's not you. And I think that's
one of my bigger takeaways is like life and everything
in it, it's not a one size fits all journey.
And I've talked about that so much, but I fail
to apply it to certain aspects of life. And I
think that's sort of one of the bigger takeaways. There's
no shame in punching a clock if you enjoy what

(01:05:23):
you do. And I think I've seen like Gary Vee
like kind of a justice perspective a bit on that, which,
you know, kudos to him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
But again, it's what makes you happy, like what outweighs
the bullshit. And then I think you know understanding if
it is for you, it's going to be tumultuous, it's
not going to be all fun. You have to have
a level of discipline, not just when it comes to

(01:05:53):
waking up and taking care of the shit you have
to take care of, but a level of discipline of
taking care of yourself as well. And I think that's
the other takeaway from this conversation is understanding and finding
your line before you burn out, when you find yourself,
you know, scraping at the bottom of the barrel, making
sure you have systems in place that don't trigger you

(01:06:15):
to then go down the dark rabbit hole of being
depressed because you're burnt out from everything you know, creating
those those systems and those support systems. And I guess
the other last aspect of it that I really loved.
There were so many things in this conversation. I'm just
sort of freestyle what's coming to my mind. But the

(01:06:38):
idea of self made as well, No one is actually
self made. Yeah, you might have busted your ass and
put in the work and never had a real handout
whatever it might be. But you're shooting yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
In the foot if you're not trying to utilize resources
that are out there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Be it education from others for your peers that are
doing similar things. Be in community with those people, getting
advice from people, partnering, like doctor White said, with those
who might have skill sets that you don't have, Like
we have to get over ourselves a little bit and
seek out opportunities that are out there that potentially could
help us. She mentioned those incubator programs for entrepreneurs of color,

(01:07:21):
like do some research, find resources you can you can
be a part of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Shout out to Coach Brenn, who who has been the
podcast before and I worked with my brand just be
She was a part of this program called We All
Grow Latina, which is like this amazing community and they
have speakers and they have an app and you're connected
to all these amazing Latina entrepreneurs and you know coaches

(01:07:49):
and they do a lot of different things but within
that you're networking and you're meeting people who do all
this cool shit, or you're able to pick their brain,
or just by listening to them you're gaining some knowledge,
Like you have to be a part of all those things.
I haven't mentioned the accounting thing, right, bro. The only
reason I know about, like how people who are successful

(01:08:14):
in business you know, have like accountants on a retainer,
is because of somebody I dated whose parents happened to
have been a successful business owner and they had an
accountant that they could always refer to on a monthly basis,
that they can work with and knows all their finances
in and out right. But for me, I was just

(01:08:37):
taking it to the regular place I was taking it
to when I was working a regular ass job, you know,
and making barely hitting money. But when you're then an
entrepreneur and you're responsible for writing things off and accounting
for every dollar made and spent and understanding where can
I not pay as much taxes?

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Just like rich people do. Rich people have high priced
accountants that help them avoid paying as much taxes as
you and I do, right, or moving things around or
claiming losses, or you know, being able to write off
business expenses. When I would go to the accountant, I
would have to know all that shit ahead of time.
They're just punching the numbers, right, They're they're not actually

(01:09:20):
trying to help me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
They don't have the time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Or probably the capacity to dig in deep and find
out where I'm leaving money on the table. And that's
just a little anecdote. It's like, how many other fucking
things do I not know that successful entrepreneurs are doing
a regular basis or team members that they have to
help them utilize all the opportunities that are out there. Right,

(01:09:44):
And again, it's only when your network of people that
you know and you speak to and that you reach
out to and that you learn from, when that grows,
then you begin to learn about other opportunities that are
out there. And I think that sort of a testamentitude.
Nobody does this alone. Right, And last thing I'll say,
Actually I talked about cold emailing companies and things like that.

(01:10:06):
I believe in that, you know, and I love doctor
White's pushback of make sure you sort of have something
tangible to show them, right, you know. For me, I
have a resume of years of work and my social
media showcases who I am and what I do and
what I stand for and my talents, if you will.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
But the opportunity is out there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
You don't have to just apply for the job that
is listed, but you can somehow create an opportunity as well.
Be unafraid to blind email, cold email people again, have
something tangible that you can show them, something of substance, right,
a portfolio your social media can be that portfolio of
what you do, who you are, right, what are your
skill sets that and that you're trying to showcase to them.

(01:10:50):
But pitch people with problems that you want to solve
for them and see what they say.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
It might work out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
You might have to send a thousand of them to
get one response, but that one response could change your life.
And I'm just saying this as a means of like
making you aware of the vast opportunity that is out there.
Regardless of the path that you want to go down.
You just have to think a bit outside the box.
And that's what this whole thing about gigs and side

(01:11:16):
hustles is all about. It's using it as a vehicle
to create the life that you want, right, to create
a custom fit, authentic lifestyle, that you want to live
that makes sense for you and your personality regardless of
the rest of the world things. And that's what I'm
I guess what I'm trying to really get at with

(01:11:36):
all these conversations, and I guess where I stand on
the idea of like, you know, entrepreneurship and everything like that.
Like to doctor White's point, she said, very clearly, define
your why, like figure out why you want to do
this stuff, and that allow that to guide you into
the decisions that you do or don't make moving forward.
So great stuff. Financial Literacy Month. I'm actually ampat about

(01:12:00):
this this month. Originally I was kind of like, all right,
I guess we'll do this again. You know, I wasn't
super excited about, Like I was like, how much financial
literacy shit can I keep regurgitating almost that isn't already
out there that people are sick of hearing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
And I feel like we've tapped into a little bit of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
A uniquer, more raw context or conversation around finances and
financial literacy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
So I'm really pleased with that. With that said, thank
you'all so much for tuning in. I will catch you
on Thursday with a brand new episode. Till that, stay
safe and we'll talk soon.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
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