A Lot of Things Happen for a Reason with Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach & Amanda Doyle

Chelsea is joined this week by #1 NYT bestselling author of Untamed, Love Warrior, and Get Untamed: The Journal Glennon Doyle, her wife, soccer icon Abby Wambach, and co-host of the trio’s podcast We Can Do Hard Things, Amanda Doyle. They discuss what Abby thought the moment she first saw Glennon, taking a leap of faith when there’s nothing there to catch you, and Abby and Glennon’s not-so-secret move to LA.  Then: A couple negotiates whether to spend their money on home improvements or a fabulous wedding.  A 30-year-old is frustrated by a dating double-standard.  And a victim of childhood abuse weighs her options as she’s finally forced to confront her abuser.  

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Nick Stumpf

Produced by Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea. I'm very excited today because we
have a special guest today on the show whose podcast
I did last week, which was which I was here
for Glennon Doyle's podcast We could do hard things with
Abbi wand Back and her sister Amanda, and my sister
actually just called as I said, sister, do you see
that I will ignore her. I did Glennon's podcast, which

(00:26):
was awesome and felt so good, so cathartic. It was
so cathartic. Yeah, I mean you really went there, you know,
you unloaded it all and talked about your growth and
and how where you're at right now, and I thought
that was so powerful. Well, thank you so much. It
felt really good. It's so nice to you know, have
the type of personality that I have in times like

(00:47):
this because I'm never shy about being real, you know,
like well over sharing. I love that. I mean that's
been like the theme of my entire you know, career
and life, like the two are so intertwined that it
feels so good to share with so many people because
you just really don't understand the impact that you can
have on like the messages and the d m s

(01:10):
and all of the stuff and the people you know
who get to hear that, and like, your pain is
never your own, you can always just like by letting
it out, you are healing yourself and healing others. Yeah.
I was thinking about this sort of separately, but in
relation to you, I've been rewatching some Kardashians lightly, just

(01:30):
as my junk food TV. Why are you rewatching or
is there a new season there is? I like, I'm
rewatching it in order chronological, so I'm waiting to watch
the new season. But I was just like, you know what,
I just feel like I need to know what's going
on in the world. But one thing I really appreciate,
especially as someone who has a couple lot of immune
issues and these sorts of things, but it is really

(01:53):
nice to see someone else who seemingly have you know,
people who have these seemingly wonderful lives and they have
migraines or sosiasis or whatever the case may be, and
I just really appreciate them sharing things like their fertility
journeys and you know, health issues. Yeah, so Open has migraines, Chloe,

(02:14):
Chloe has migraines, and who had the fertility issues Kim
and I think Chloe, like I thought she was going
to have some fertility issues or maybe dead and then
naturally I didn't know that. Yeah, but Kim had all
kinds of issues with her first too, pregnancy, that first
baby that was not Yeah, I remember looking. I think

(02:35):
we flew somewhere on Ryan Seacrest playing at some point
and her ankles. I was like, oh, oh, oh, it
would look too painful what happened to her ankles? Just
but it's just nice to see that, Like other people
go through that and they're scared when they get diagnoses,
and you know, they work through them. And I don't

(02:56):
know if there's something really reassuring about hearing what somebody
else has gone through, just like you shared. And it's
also nice that that whole clan has each other, you
know what I mean, Like there's so many of them
with the mother and the five sister you know, every
day they have someone to lean on all the time. Yeah. Absolutely,
And I mean there's just like this gaggle of kids
who are growing up in the limelight and they're going

(03:18):
to all have each other, which is kind of a
cool thing. Yeah. Yeah, So I am coming to Vancouver
two shows Friday, August twelve. I'm coming to Calgary auguste
and then again August. I am coming to Saratoga, California,
October one. October eight, I'm gonna be in Niagara Falls,
and then I'm coming to Long Beach, California, and Bakersfield

(03:40):
October October one and twenty two, Passa Robles, California, and
I will be in Vegas October two, Yeah, the Mirage,
and then October twenty nine Wheatland, California. And then I
have a whole bunch of other dates. Tampa, Fort Myers,
Daytona Beach, Florida, Hollywood, Baltimore, Maryland, Riverside, California, Pennsylvania, Wilkes Barry.

(04:05):
I finally learned how to say that after my fiftieth
trip there. Anyway, All those tickets and more are available
at Chelsea handler dot com. So our guest today is
Glenn and Doyle, Abbey Wambach and her sister Amanda. Amanda
doesn't have a last name, according to me, Hi, guys, Cissy,
are you nervous? This is our first podcast we've done together.
What yeah, like off of our own podcast. This is

(04:28):
our first ever experience like this. Oh my god, I'm
so I love to di virginize lesbians. I'm just happy
to be starting in the minor leagues, you know, for
my first I feel like it's important to get my
get my feet wet before I do like some real
big ones. Oh my god. Well, guys, I mean, we're
bonded for life forever, okay, because we had an incredible experience,

(04:52):
all of us together the other day when we did
we can do hard things, and we talked a lot
about my life and my personal experience, answers of late
and all of that fun stuff, which was super cathartic
and helpful. And the response from everyone is just always
blows me away. Sometimes I sit there, you know, I
was this morning. I had all this Mexican food left over,

(05:14):
and my housekeeper was making me some like delicious Mexican
breakfast situation. And I was just like scrolling through Instagram
and my d M s and I was just reading
and reading one woman after another after another, and you
just never, ever, you can never overestimate the impact being
honest and sharing has on other people. It's been magic

(05:37):
for us today. I mean, I'm I've had I've had
friends call me today crying. I can't. I've never heard
someone speak about love like that. I've never heard someone
talk about not abandoning them. Something magic happened during that hour.
For real. I actually texted your editor, who you're writing
your new book with, and I was like, I'm telling you,

(05:58):
something new is happening with this conversation that Chelsea's starting
right now. I can feel it. I can feel it.
Well you've been You've been incremental in having the conversation
as well as anyone familiar with Glennon's books and Glennon's
podcast and everything Glennon does as well, because you are
all about learning about yourself and opening yourself up. So

(06:18):
I thought today what we could talk about before we
give advice to strangers, which is my favorite thing in
the world. I wanted to know from all three of
you about your relationship together and what you find to
be the most valuable insight from you to sy see
about their relationship individually and together that you value in

(06:42):
each other, and what you've learned about yourself by being
in this kind of healthy relationship. So Abby, I'm gonna
start with you. I want you to tell me what
is the most one of the most, because I'm sure
there it is endless what is one of the things
that you admire most about Glenned. I mean, this is tough,

(07:03):
and I don't mean this in like a Google Gaga way.
I just think that the way Glennan, the way she
approaches life in truth is something that I have, First
of all, I needed to learn when we first met.
I was like in the pro sports world where I
didn't let any of the outside world really know what

(07:24):
was going on with me personally. And when I first
talked to Glennon, you know, I had just gotten a
d u I and I was asking her if I
should put it in my book, and I was like
freaking out. I was like really having a hard time,
and she just shamelessly was like, just tell the truth.
The truth is where the normal people live and where

(07:46):
they where we want to have good connected conversations. And
so the way that Glennon lives in her truth and
her work ethic is something that that I'm marvel at.
I mean, I'm a naptaker and um, she isn't. I'm
a nap shamer. She's a nap shaker. Yeah. And then
I would say for a sister for Amanda Doyle, are

(08:07):
I mean, literally we're all doing life together. You are
the person in our life that just gets shit done.
And I know it comes at a personal cost to you.
It's stressful, it's hard. You you just are the best.
I feel like all three of us have like really

(08:31):
fabulous parts of a personality that make up one perfect
human being. Yeah, you know, like we we feel like
we're like body, mind, and spirit. But like it's like
body is Abbey, and mind is Sister and spirit is me.
So like on our own we're kind of lost, like
it's it's it's not good. Together we make one fully functioning.

(08:54):
But sister and I have been Amanda and I have
been inseparable since she was born three years after I
was born. I always I feel scared about those three years,
like what the hell was I going? Except for when
I was really bad, lost in addiction. She had to
put up some serious boundaries during that time. So when

(09:14):
Abby came into my life, it was really interesting because
when it's a boy, it's like all right, whatever, Like
there's nothing threatening there to a sisterhood, you know, but
bringing a woman into our life was like interesting to recalibrate,

(09:36):
like is this so she she's she part of our
sisterhood now is she the other sister wives? Sister? What?
And man, just like, do I have to have sex
with her too? What's going on? I was never on offer, Chelsea. Yeah,
I remember that being a tricky time. Do you remember, sister,
because I feel like I just was. I never knew

(09:57):
if you were going to feel uncalibrated it during that time.
I always assumed and and all roads would lead to
that being the case. And I remember being completely shocked
that that was never a factor. There was never. I mean,
it's surprising because that's not my character. I'm jealous, I'm

(10:19):
jealous of everything, and I it just never was so,
I mean, for me, I was shocked by Abby. I'm
always shocked, but um, I was shocked because I never
knew that I could love someone like I love you, Glennon,
and I do. I love Abby that much and so

(10:42):
and Abby plays a very specific role in my life.
I was talking to my therapist the other day and
I'm very I made it into a therapy exactly for
the good reasons. I'm not usually the reasons people make
it into therapy. And I'm a hyper monitor, so I'm
always like looking for problems. I never I never rest
because I'm always just anticipating three steps ahead and figuring

(11:06):
out what the world and situation needs for me. And
my therapist was like, can you think of any time Well,
she meant like times, like wide swats of time, and
I was like no, She's like, can you think of
any particular moment where you haven't felt like that? And
I said yes. With my sister in law, when I'm
with Abby, she is this perfect blend of having things

(11:28):
under control, of knowing what's going on, but without being
manic or anxious about it. And so it's this secret
sauce of the only time that I can feel like, oh,
she's got it, and it's the only time I'm like RESTful. Ever, Yeah,

(11:50):
that sounds like you guys are just I mean, it's
like your everybody is right where they belong. It does
feel that way, and and for me and I kind
of don't under and how we got along sister with
before Abby like she's such a delightful had so much
delight and lightness. Well, we got along, but we weren't
having fun. We were That's what it was. We were miserable.

(12:13):
Loved each other, but we were miserable, and we hated
our lives. Misery is our comfort zone. That's so funny
because that's what exactly when I referenced watching one of
your Instagram posts the other day, Abby of you, and
when Glennan was just like, I have my feelings suck.
Everything sucks. I suck. I've never been happy. I was like,
I thought that that very thing, Like, thank God for

(12:33):
the lightness of her filming this to take away, you know,
to lessen the blow of the seriousness of your feelings,
you know, and the despair, like her presence alone takes
brings a little bit more light to the situation. Yeah,
we did a camera in your face. I'm like, can
you what could you be? Really? She's like, based, people
are going to believe this ship when I have to

(12:55):
listen to so can I just use this at least?
So great? It's like taking up a collection for herself.
Every time she posted something like that, she's got a
whole library, She's got an editor on her own. She's like,
can you get through this ship? Because I don't have time.
There's not a time in a day. But sister, what
do you what do you have you seen in your
sister that has blown you open? From her relationship with Abby,

(13:20):
just the audacity and the courage to go for it
continues to blow me away because she was in you know,
all of her little baby ducks were in a row,
and it was a little bit you know, they weren't
ideal ducks, but they were still quite in a row,
and she just went in and blew it all up.

(13:44):
Two on a hunch, by the way, on a hunch
that it would be better, like they weren't together. They weren't.
She just had had this experience of meeting Abby and
knowing that she couldn't go back to be in her
marriage that she knew was so much less than that.
And so sometimes, frankly, it scares me because I'm a

(14:09):
very logical thinker and not a feel feeler, And so
I think all the time, what are all of us
as I see them today, five years, six years later,
what is the thing that seems absurd that none of
us are doing, and how does that change the course
of our lives? Because it seems impossible that they would

(14:33):
not be who they are and living the life they
have now. But actually that was the least likely thing
he looked back six years ago. So I just admire
her courage and I admire her just presence and confidence
in herself to be like I understand this looks ridiculous
to everyone around me. It only matters that it doesn't

(14:54):
feel ridiculous to me. I think that is always in
the back of my mind. Yeah, we are going to
take a quick break so you can hear an ad
and then we'll be right back. Lennon, I've read and
spoken to you firsthand to hear about your experience meeting Abby,
but I've never had heard Abbey's version of it. Would

(15:14):
you mind sharing that with us? Sure? So we um.
I was releasing my first memoir, and I doubt that
I'm going to write a second month. So I was
releasing my memoir. I'm not like you people who like
to write books six number one New York Times bestsellers.

(15:35):
I know. That's how I introduced myself, you guys, I
would too. I ended up showing up late to this
gathering that we were supposed to go do this book
event to sell our books to the librarians of America,
and we were going to go on stage. You got
to say, you know a little speech about what your
books about. The librarians will buy up your books, and

(15:59):
I walked back stage age and I looked at the
roster of like other authors who were going to be there,
and I was struggling with alcoholism. I was like a
month sober at the time, and I saw that she
was a recovered alcoholic and I was like, oh, that's
super interesting. I want to talk to her. So when
I walked into the room, all I see is this

(16:19):
vision across the room just like standing up and like
stretching her arms out into a t And by the way,
this room is like really small. There was tables inside
people were eating, and so now this one person stands
up in the other side of the room and I'm like, well,
now this is super awkward. I have to go greet
this one person who's acknowledged me. Everybody else is just

(16:42):
kind of like eating, and so I have to like
scoot around the entirety of all of the other people
who are eating, all the other authors, and I we
hug and I was like, wow, like something was different
for sure, Like my blood pressure went up. I got
like the little, you know, butterflies in my stomach, and

(17:03):
then I couldn't get over the fact that I wanted
to sit next to her the whole time, and I
got seated next to this like children's book author, which
was like, he was great, but I was really wanted
to sit next to Glennon. And then when we found
ourselves up on stage, we ended up sitting right next
to each other and that was wonderful because I was
so nervous for some reason, I couldn't really figure it out.

(17:26):
And then that night I went home and I read
Love Warrior and I got to the end of Love
Warrior and I was like, what because we stayed together
at the end, How can this be? I like, I
shut the book. It was like two o'clock in the morning.
I was so pissed. I was like, oh my gosh.

(17:47):
And then two days later I got an email from Glennon.
I found her, I found her assistant. Well, her assistant
came up to me at the little table in front
of the thousand librarians, leaned over with tears in her
eyes and said, I don't know what's happening right now,
but I feel like Abby needs you in her life.

(18:08):
Like all these weirdass things happened that at I know
everyone needs that. That's your sister working your magic for you.
You know, seither your sister or your wingman, like I
don't know. Apparently it's your assistant too. I hope my
fucking assistance listening to this. Yeah, so I just like

(18:30):
found her assistance email and sent an email that I
had written out for Abby, and I wrote it with
like lots of spiritual wisdom about recovery and everything. But
I think it was like my I don't think I
for sure no, that it was my way of being like, Hi,
would you like to start something, but it was couched

(18:54):
in a lot of mentorship and friendship in the beginning, right, yes,
And I was like, yes, I want to be friends
with you, like, yes, I want to be mentored by
you immediately, that's right. In the matter of Glennan, did
you write did you acknowledge the book? Or you're the
status of your situation because you were still with him,

(19:17):
right were we were? Yeah? Absolutely no, it was just
all about recovery. And I do know when we look
back at the email, subtly the first sentences, I have
never watched soccer before, maybe some guys games, but I'm
really over men. Yeah, in the first paragraph, I was

(19:38):
like my lesbian Gaitar was like, it doesn't take a
lot of gaydar right to say, she just I'm over men. Yeah,
so subtle as usual, a little crack you can squeeze
through there, yea yeah. And then we started emailing back
and forth so much, just letters and letters, and oh,

(19:59):
that's so much fun, isn't It's so much fun to
be excited about an email and opening up an email
when you're gonna have crushing on someone. It's like, it's
the best zone in life. It's the best. Wake up
the five in the morning to see if there's anything
they're like, oh my god, before coffee even that's how
you know. And then I don't know if you know this,

(20:20):
but we didn't. We decided we were in love and
told that to each other via email and like text messages. Right,
So I told Craig that our marriage was over. We
never we're together again. Besides that first evening when we
were just in the same room with a bunch of librarians.
We were never together again. She until after I broke

(20:44):
up my marriage, until I flew to you months and
months later in l a And it was the night
of the SPS and she but nobody knew. I had
to wait back in a hotel room and she had
to go do her sp thing where she got her
and I got to watch her on the television. It
was all very romantic, but I had never kissed a girl,
never touched a girl, never, and I had broken up

(21:07):
this marriage and we were starting this thing, and I
had to go to a hotel room and be like,
I guess we need to try this now. I hope
it works. Yes, so I guess last night was the
anniversary of our first sex. Yes you've heard You've heard
it here first on Chelsea Handler. We can call it
of July. I mean it was like for the first

(21:27):
ever real sex for me. I feel like it. I
was like, oh, I see what the hubbub is about.
I love I love that you officially became a lesbian
on the night of the SPS. That perfect, I mean,
is there anything more perfect? First of all, I have
my hand is on my arm is standing out because
it's such a beautiful story for all three of you

(21:48):
and for your whole family and everything you've created together
is just so heartwarming and beautiful, and and it really
does is such a strong reminder to people that your
person is out there, you know, and when you have
feeling to not ignore that feeling. But people are always
saying to me why I think it's so interesting? And
I've been thinking about you NonStop, literally NonStop, But people

(22:13):
always ask me, would you have it's wonderful that you've
left you're good enough and found your person because that
was a courgeous didn't it was? But would you have
done that if there were no abbey? Would you have
You're good enough if there was not something else to

(22:33):
jump to? Because for certain I had that knowing right
that this isn't this can't be all there is, that
that I was made for something different than this, and
I don't think it's always better. It's not like I
don't think of settling as like I'm a turn and
he'sn't for and so I'm not going to settle. Settling
is like I know this isn't exactly right for me,

(22:54):
and I'm doing it anyway because I'm more afraid of
being alone than i am of being with the wrong
person right. So anyway, I think it's a new thing
to expect the more want, the more want the right,
and leave the what's not it even when there's nothing

(23:14):
else to jump to. That's the most brave, amazing thing
and That's what I keep thinking about with you this week, right, right,
and I think that you would have done the same
thing without abby, even though there's always you know, sometimes
we need a catalyst. And that's what that's what energy is,

(23:35):
and that's what magnetism is, you know, that's why the
things happen. That's why you can be in the middle
of an airport in New Delhi and walk into a
bathroom and and somebody's walking out of a stall in
the same exact moment that you went to high school
with and you bumped right into them. It's like, that's
a magnetic thing that is supposed to happen, because there's
too many people in this world for that coincidence to
happen on its own, you know what I mean. There's

(23:57):
like a charge of electricity that we're all surrounded by.
And you know, the less in touch you are with that,
you know, the less in touch you are with that.
But when you realize, like, oh, keep your eyes open,
you know, looking at look, make sure you're always looking,
because you don't know what you're supposed to see, you know,
and when you're supposed to see it. And accidents are
just not accidents, you know. I mean some of them are.

(24:18):
I don't believe everything happens for a reason. And when
people say that, I'm like that that's a little bit much.
But a lot of things happen for a lot of things.
The reason great title for a to check and make
sure that for a reason to check and make sure
that one's not taken. Okay, but I'm not gonna let
you off the Hooklen And you have to tell me
what you what an Abbey brings you the most joy? Joy? Sure,

(24:43):
I mean my life. Sometimes when I walk into a
place I just told you this recently and Abbey has
has not been able to come to the thing, I
feel like such a disappointment. I feel like the whole
rooms like looking behind me and it's like, oh hi,

(25:04):
Like she's the joy and she you know, the last
night we were sitting at our our family at our
dinner table, and there was this moment, sister, I told
you about this this morning where Abby just started she
looked at our youngest and she started asking her like
really pointed questions and it was about like drinking and

(25:25):
like all the all these things. And I was like, Okay,
this is uncomfortable and weird, and we shouldn't be talking
about this just all my like out of my comfort zone.
We ended up having a two hour conversation where all
three of these kids opened up in ways that they
have never I mean, it was it was like a
family shifting conversation. Would you agree. She just has a

(25:48):
way of making every single person she's talking to, whether
they're ten years old, eighty years old, whatever, feel completely seen,
completely safe, and because of that, people open up to her.
And as that, you just it's like I never knew
people before they sit down with her, and so because
of that, every experience is better for for for even

(26:08):
just people that are watching or hanging out right, it's
like and then I don't know, she's just like you
know how they have those soda streamer things where you
just like put the bubbles in. She's just like the
putting the bubbles in. Like I'm just always like the whoa, whoa.
That's still true. That's not true. I actually I have
to push back a little bit because we talked about
this on our walk the other day. After our conversation

(26:30):
with Chelsea about her housekeeper sitting her her staff sitting
here down and saying like you're our person, that made
me cry. It made us We've talked, we've been, we've
been non stopped talking about it because I was like,
that's how I feel. I feel like everybody loves you
more and and everybody only loves me because of us.
You're the solar system that our little world's revolve within.

(26:55):
And the same with Chelsea. Yeah, that's what she said
on the walk. That's that's the way it is. I
love that I can totally relate to what you're saying, Glennon.
I mean, but yeah, exactly. Everyone is their own well
we're all our own little galaxies. That's just the way
it is. But you know, when we can team up
with another galaxy and work off of each other, like
Abby you said the other day, like a Venn diagram,

(27:16):
that is where the magic comes in. Then it becomes
a magical experience, not just a one on one. And
I think you know that gift that you have, Abby,
of letting people be seen and heard. It's just so
heartwarming to even hear about that because so many people
don't feel that way. They don't feel seen and as
children especially you know, and they don't feel heard. And

(27:38):
it's amazing what you can discover about the people who've
been in your lives forever when somebody else has a
different line of questioning, Yes, yes, exactly exactly that. Well,
on that note, Captaine, what do you have to say
for yourself? Oh my goodness, well I haven't. We have
callers today, tell us what we're in for so many

(28:01):
different things. A lot of these questions are well they're
all in each of your whalehouses, but a lot of
them have really specific things that apply to you, know,
the things each of you have written about. And so
I'm very excited to get some awesome we love collars.
We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back
with collars. Okay, we're all going to take a virtual

(28:22):
bath and we're back. I can't believe you two snuck
into Los Angeles and didn't let me know. What funk
is that about? When did you move that for a year.
We'll talk about that in another pandemic move That sounds

(28:43):
like a slight. You've been in love. I know, I know,
you know it's like time consuming. Love is kind of
a big deal. I know it is. It's a very time,
a lot of free time. Now, so hit me up,
perfect now, enter perfect, Well, our first question comes from Alex.

(29:04):
Alex says, do we get married or save the money?
Dear Chelsea, my name is Alex. I'm a gay man
living in western Pennsylvania. Please stop introducing yourself as gay men.
There are no straight men writing into this show. Okay,
now one needs to say you're gay. My favorite is
when people will be like, I'm a male or I'm
a female. Like we can just say like guyer gal,

(29:25):
that's I doesn't have to be so medical. I'm twenty
nine years old and work as a real estate agent.
I've been with my partner, Johnny for almost seven years.
He's kind, patient, and truly my best friend. Almost four
years ago, I proposed to Johnny while on a cruise.
I was planning on a nice dinner and an elaborate
show of affection, but I was so excited that as
soon as we got on the ship, I took him

(29:46):
to the bow, got on one knee, and he said yes.
Johnny and I live in a beautiful lake community and
are very fortunate to have purchased our home before the
market went crazy. Needless to say, buying a simple home
was extremely excited for us. We've delayed planning a wedding
for some time. We love slowly putting money into our
home and enjoying life. We're also not picturing a traditional

(30:08):
wedding growing up. We were both raised in Christian households,
so never in our wildest dreams did we think that
we could be able to get married and live out
and proud as we are. We both feel it's silly
to spend thousands of dollars on one day and don't
have the means to commit that much money. We both
feel that a non traditional, fun wedding is what we want. Anyway,
We continuously toss around the idea of a destination wedding,

(30:31):
but are afraid that it would put a financial stress
on our families and friends. They're continuously asking us when
we're getting married and wonder why we're delaying a good
thing when clearly we want to be together forever. Should
we have a destination wedding with family and friends in
Mexico despite some not being able to attend, or should
we continue to invest money into our home, delay the
wedding and hopefully get a return on our investment. All

(30:53):
the best, Alex, this is a serious financial question. Yeah,
I love it, you take it go abby, I mean,
get married in your backyard, have all your guests, bring
some food that ship, like you'll be done and done,
like it'll be beautiful. Like the thing about for me,

(31:14):
I've had two weddings now, and I did the destination
wedding first go around, flew my whole family out there.
It was a big hullabaloo for fucking nothing. What a
waste of money. And then you know, we just like
we just completely did it totally differently. And I don't know,

(31:35):
I I think of our marriage now like we we
talked about it. It's like this is second marriage ship,
Like we have learned stuff that we're bringing into the
second marriage. And the wedding is about the love. It's
not about where you're doing it. It's not about and
they love their how they love home twelve times home, backyard,

(31:58):
pot look, backyard out look. And then when you're making
the list, this is what we did. Okay, we wrote
down we had like everybody we love for something, everybody
we love, and there was like hundred and fifty people
on it. And then we were like, okay, no, now
we got to take it to everybody we love and like.
And then there was like forty people on it, and
as the one of them was, we both had to

(32:19):
know everybody, yes that came. We didn't want any strangers there,
and that took it down quite a bit. Yeah, and
then it was everybody we like, love and trust and
we ended up having twenty people and it was twenty
people and it was the freaking best and there was
no stress and there was not a million bazillion details.
And sister, remember when you came and how calm we

(32:39):
actually were. It was eerie. It was so weird. And
this was what they said. I was freaking out because
nothing was done. It was it was nothing. They were like,
we're all getting together just for like a beach weekend,
and it was spirit and body, all right, we had
mind had not that applied to the template. And she

(33:01):
and Glenna just said, you know what, we've decided it's
not going to be perfect, so we can be happy.
We are going to be happy so it will be perfect.
And wow, that is a great way, because nothing's ever
going to be perfect. And if you're waiting, if your
happiness is contingent on it being perfect, you will always

(33:24):
be very, very sad. But if you just decide that
you're happy and therefore it will be perfect. That's that's
a nice way to do it. I'm going to write
that down from my book. Write it down for from
from from something's happened for a reason. That can be
your apeth. I would like to one of what these

(33:47):
girls all said and say, have this. Have a blowout
in your backyard, Have a great, big, fun, casual affair
in your backyard, just like these two had as many
people as you want. You can have twenty, you can
have six or whatever you guys are down with. You
want to celebrate with your whole family and invite a
hundred people, go for it, and then take that Mexico
trip just the two of you as your honeymoon. Just

(34:09):
go away together and and then celebrate your love alone together.
That is where love should be celebrated. You're not on
parade for everybody. You don't have to have a big
show of a wedding. I think everyone who goes to
a wedding appreciates so much more the genuine vibe of
two people and being happy for them. You know that

(34:29):
no one likes a formal I mean, some people like
a formal affair, but these guys don't sound like they do.
And I don't think anybody here that is. You don't
want to be a presentation, you want to be a celebration. Uh,
let me write that, souf. We're just like writing Charlse book.
We're gonna be at chapter two by the next question.

(34:52):
This is great, but at home you can be absolutely yourself.
You can make it so much more about who the
two of you are, rather than you know, the same
chair as everybody used for their last wedding at some location,
the same flower as the last person had. Does it
make it exactly you? You could just pick one thing

(35:13):
that you and Johnny love about the wedding generally, like
what's your one thing, and then just do that like
for our I also had two weddings, and I very
much recommend that people have two weddings because the second
one you get to just everyone says, like, what you're
not inviting You're inviting one uncle and not the other uncle,

(35:35):
and you just get to say, oh, it's a second wedding,
and everyone's like, oh, I guess, I guess you could
do whatever. But my favorite thing about weddings is the
night before the rehearsal dinner and the toasts and so
we just said, our whole wedding is going to be
that we're just doing the actual wedding night. We're doing
whoever wants to give a toast does it. And it

(35:57):
was so special because that was my favorite part of
anybody's wedding, except when sister you got up and spoke
first at our wedding, and you did so good that
everybody else was so scared to stand up after. My
family was like, Nope, not me, not going to follow
that ship. Most beautiful wedding toast I've ever heard. I

(36:21):
would love to hear that. That sounds great. You can
put it in your book. Chelsea actually sending me a
link so I can add that to my book. Just
a lot of things happen for a reason. Also, I
guess our advice is for both of you to get
married once before and then do this. Make sure that
that is an addendum. Well. Our next question comes from Katie.

(36:47):
Katie says, Dear Chelsea, I tend to want to get
intimate with a man after three to four great dates
and then end up getting ghosted. If I feel a
connection with a guy, it's utter bs that I can't
explore that intimacy without looking like a slut. After a
few great dates, I end up feeling tricked and also
disappointed in my own self destruction the one to two
times a year I actually like a guy. I'm on

(37:10):
a year sabbatical from alcohol, and one of my goals
this year was to not sleep with guys so early.
But recently, I did get more intimate after the third
date with a guy I was really excited about and
he had seemed excited about me. I'd love to hear
your advice and thoughts on this topic as a fellow
openly sexual woman. It may just be that I need
to learn to control myself more and hold out longer

(37:31):
to see if a guy wants to stick around. But
sex is important to me and the double standard drives
me insane. For context, I'm a thirty year old single
woman who's never been in a relationship. I date a lot,
but feel this self destruction I caused myself around date three,
four five is likely why I've never had a relationship.
This most recent guy, I think might be the final

(37:52):
straw to break the cycle. I'm sad about what almost was,
disappointed myself for feeding into desires in the moment and
looking like someone I'm not two men who might have
wanted a relationship with me otherwise. Thoughts Katie, M Hi Katie,
Oh my god, Katie. Oh this is a real life

(38:12):
She's like Deil. We have so many people for her
to talk to you today. I'm so excited. So Glennon
and Abby and Amanda say hello to Katie. There are
guests today. And Catherine you've spoken to so nice to
see your pretty smiling face. Thank you. Okay, So this
is a perfect question for all of us, I think

(38:35):
except Abby. So I mean, listen, I understand you're being
sober for a year, Like I think that's probably you.
You know that you knew yourself well enough that that
needs to happen. I don't have a lot of judgment
about sexual behavior. I think there's probably behavior that's coming
along with that sexual behavior that's coupled together that you

(38:56):
might not be aware of. That's kind of sabotaging whatever
you're trying to accomplish, which it sounds like you really
want a loving relationship, right, so let's talk about that,
like what happens around date three or four for you?
I truly, this is what I'm struggling with understanding. Is
I seem to have a trend of being love bombed
and then ghosted, just like future talk. Let's I'd love

(39:19):
to help you move furniture, Let's get coffee, and then
it's a full ghost. So I I've played around with
the idea of like, maybe I'm attracted to narcissists that
are very good at tricking me, But I'm also aware
of that the constant in these is me. So this
year I've been trying to turn the mirror on myself
and figure it out. So I don't know if that

(39:39):
answers your question. Well, no, I think well, in part
it does because good for you, because that it does
sound like a type of person. What's the book Attachment? Yeah,
attached Actually just thought that I haven't read it yet. Yeah,
that that's all about avoidance, anxious, you know, attracting the
same kind of person, and and you have to just
disrupt the pattern, you know what I mean, you have
to disrupt that pattern be because that's that is a

(40:01):
youth thing. Yeah, the love bombing is a narcissistic thing.
People love bomb, blah blah blah, bomb and then pull
away and withhold right, So I mean when you're looking inward,
you sound like you're already on the right track to
figuring this out for yourself. It's just going to take.
In my experience, you really have to take the weight
off of dating somebody and that early on, like you

(40:22):
have to take the weight off of yourself to try
to make this and predict the future and make it
something permanent, because really that is what that beginning nascent
period is about, is about falling in love, flirting, and
getting to know who a person really is. And sometimes
that doesn't come to the four right away, you know,
sometimes that could happen six months down the road. You
think you know somebody and then all of a sudden

(40:43):
you're like, wait, what's going on here? So I mean,
I feel like you're already on your way to doing
the work, and I don't want you to tie your
identity up with being valued by some guy that you
barely know. Like who gives a ship If somebody doesn't
call you back after three or four days his law?
Now next, what's up next? You know? Yeah, what do

(41:03):
you girls think, Katie? Do you have a religious background
or something that? I mean, I grew up Jewish, but
that's more cultural than religious, because there just seems to
be so much like inner. You seem to be so
judgmental of yourself about giving you're about having sex at all.
Is that something you feel? No, I think it's that.

(41:25):
I mean, Chelsea's right. I've done a lot of work
this year, and I'm really proud of who I've become,
and it's still just not working out. You know, I
do know, I do know what sobriety been like for you.
This the first year is often fresh hell so well.
And so here's what I'll say. I don't think I
had a drinking problem. I wanted to re establish my relationships,
so I've kind of been drinking like a pregnant lady.

(41:47):
I have SIPs here and there. I'm mostly sober. I
still smoke, I still do mushrooms, but I just and
I have re established my relationship, but I just kind
of want to finish up the year. And dating sober
has been awesome, like telling guy, I'll get drinks with you,
but you know I'm gonna get a mocktail and watching
guys be like let's go for a hike or let's
go to the park, or really just seeing that has

(42:09):
been great. So I may continue to not do drinks
as the first date to really spend that sober time
with someone. But I guess I'm just reeling back from
like partying, drinking, or happy hour three days a week,
all of that stuff that's cultural in our society. It
sounds like you're maturing a little bit. And the way
that I am hearing it is it's got to be

(42:30):
a change in the perspective of not just like who
you're attracted to, but what about them? Like what about
that attraction? What is that saying about me? What am
I needing in this person? Who? Over time, I know
that this keeps happening, they keep love bombing and then
ghosting me. Maybe like date somebody that is totally opposite

(42:54):
of what you've normally dated before. Maybe go down that
route like a woman hadn't. I'll never say never. I've
thought about it so much and I just don't think yet.
But you know what, who knows? Yeah, seriously, who does know? Nobody? Never?
No money. But I also want to say what you

(43:17):
said was, it's not happening. You're making all these changes
and you're expecting to see the results of those changes.
That is a number one that doesn't happen when you
want it to. Happen. The results of your efforts and
the work that you put into yourself doesn't show up
at the end of that work. It shows up way later,
and it phases and in phases and then again later,
and you're like, oh, Ship, you're constantly relearning what you've

(43:40):
already learned, and then you have to apply it to
your life over and over again, and then by repetition,
your life becomes different. That's right. And I also just
feel like it's so sad that there's just culturally so
pervasive this idea that there's an change of value in sexuality.

(44:03):
Like what what I hear you saying, Katie, is what
I want. What's a value to me is a meaningful
relationship where someone continues to show up with a real connection,
and what I presume to be a value to them
is sex. Because after they've retrieved that value from me,
they go away. And so there's a real reason that

(44:25):
you feel that way, because our world is built around
the idea that women's value is in their sexuality, and
therefore they lose value, they lose their virginity, they you know.
So I just think, if it's possible to really think
about that for a second and like, think about what
if that wasn't your value? What if you just took

(44:46):
the currency of sex out and say, when I want
sex and when I want pleasure, I'm going to get that.
That is a separate thing from this relationship structure where
I am going what I want over there is someone
for a real connection, and those things can parallel track.
But it isn't that your currency is beyond your sexuality.

(45:08):
And I think by cultivating and bringing to the forefront,
realizing what really believing in your currency being your brain
and your spirit and what you're doing with yourself, then
that value will come to the forefront and you what
will be attracted to you is the people who value
that currency. But go ahead and get some over here,

(45:28):
if that's what you're looking Very doom man, sister, a man,
great sucking advice. Yes, Chelsea, did you get that? Oh?
My got it? Got it? Are you kidding me? First?
Of I mean, that is so well said and just
so poignant because it's so true. It's like, of course,
don't deprive yourself of sex like I'm so I'm so

(45:50):
sick of that too, you know, and judging ourselves like no,
we can't judge yourself Chase. Yeah, you want to get
two months. Yeah, I don't need eight dates. I want
to feel your penis and feel if it feels good.
That pretend to pretend like I'm not gonna have sex

(46:10):
with you, so you can, oh, now we're gonna have sex.
Done with that, Just go get what you are. And
I'm thirty years old. We've gone to dinner three times,
We've done fun things, we enjoy each other. Let's see
if this Because sometimes you have sex and you're like,
oh god, no exactly. That's why that's why it's important
to get it out of the way right away, to
see if there's anything else to talk about. You know,
like I always like to have sex immediately because if

(46:33):
your penis doesn't work with my Pikachu, then we don't
have anything to say anyway. You know, if you're into
some six ship, I want to know about that too.
You know, I don't want to find out later that
like you're gonna expecting me to put a ball gag
in my mouth or some ship, Like I'm not down.
I'm not down with that. So it's important, you know,
for a lot of reasons, but I think for your
own sexual health, like you know, and psychologically. I think

(46:53):
what she said is so right on for you, Like
you need to go out there and empower yourself and
know that that's not attached to your value at all.
And the guy that is going to be the guy
for you isn't going to give a ship whether or
not you have sex with him on the first date
or the third date. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And also,
is anyone worried about Katie was worried about you? Just
like full of joy and transparency and presence and your

(47:17):
precious as the day is long, and so just worry,
just do A sister said, I think she said have
sex and then don't worry about it. You said basically
that you could be on your date and then you
could go meet somebody for sex after your date. You
can have a whole choice of activities lined up. Yes,

(47:38):
sounds great to me if it helps at all. My
husband was a first date and here we are sixteen
years later. H yeah, there we go. Love that. I mean, technically,
so we're abby and glenned that first time they were
ever together after they met. I feel like that's also
a trend. I know like ten people who have said
I slept with my husband on the first date, so

(48:00):
maybe I should just be sleeping on the first date
instead of the third. You just throw out any rules
around any of it, you know what I mean? Just
throw out rules and paaradigms like and just do what
you feel you should be doing in the moment. You're
clear headed right now. You know you have a clarity
of mine. Use it, use your instinct. You know when
to do something and when not to do something. You know,

(48:21):
So just trust yourself a little bit more and you're
going to be fine. Katie, Thank you, I appreciate it.
Thanks for keep us Hie, Katie Bye. She's so cute.
She's like, who the funk are Glenn and Abbey in
a man's I can have my money back just talking

(48:42):
to Chelsea. Charge people? Oh my god, that's a great
revenue stream. Why do we charge callers? Who needs ads? Yeah?
I don't need to read anywhere ads for fucking better help.
I'm gonna start charging callers. That's that's that's the phone.

(49:03):
That's the way to put my best foot forward. Well,
our next call is from A and Brad. Do we
have a on the line? She came back, Yep, I'm
ready to go. Okay, great. It was having some technical
difficulties and Brad over here was texting me and he said, oh,
she dropped off. I said, well, yeah, she's having issues.
He goes, isn't that why they're all writing in almost

(49:28):
lost it? Good job, Brad. You know what, before we
get to this call, let's take a really quick break
and we'll be right back with Glennon, Abbey, Amanda, and Chelsea.
Well A says dear Chelsea, I'm fearful about moving back
to my home city, somewhere I really want to live,

(49:49):
because it means I will almost certainly have to face
someone who have been successfully able to avoid for almost
twenty years, someone who used to abuse me as a child.
I am in therapy for this, and I still have
a lot of work to do. My day to day
is not significantly impacted by the terrible things they did
to me. That being said, I'm feeling very anxious about
the possibility of seeing them when I move home, and

(50:10):
it's tainting my excitement about being back in a city
I really want to live in again. This person is
in my extended family, and I've never told a single
other family member, only close friends and my therapist about
what they did to me. I'm anticipating having to navigate
more holidays and other family get togethers with this person
because we'll be so geographically close after decades of not

(50:31):
seeing them. My family is very small, and I'm afraid
it would completely sever the family. There are people close
to my abuser who I do care for. I feel
so torn well. One side of me finally wants to
come out with all of it. The other side of
me wants to just try to continue to avoid situations
where this person will be, even if it makes me
look like a bad family member. I have also considered

(50:53):
writing my abuser and email telling them that if we're
ever in a situation where we have to be in
the same place in the future, to not talk to
me or engage with me. Am I just keeping the
peace for everyone else's protection and comfort. How would you
come out with news like this? And if I decided
to keep this to myself for a bit longer, how
would you go about gracefully avoiding family situations where this

(51:13):
person will be in attendance, especially during holidays like Christmas,
where I can't really blame it on work. If I
eventually get stuck having to attend to function where this
person will be would you confront them? Sincerely? A oh god,
Hi A Hi, Hi, Hi everyone, Hi to meet you all.
This is amazing. I know it's a huge support group

(51:36):
for you. Yeah, so many people. Thank you for having me. Well,
thank you, thanks for calling in. I'm delighted that you did. Okay,
so let's talk what uh we're talking about sexual abuse? Yeah? Yeah, okay, girls, Glada,
I know you have a little bit of experience with
this discussing. Yeah, do you want to take the lead

(51:57):
on this and I'll follow up? Oh, if you're comfortable
with that. One of the things I thought of right
away was, first of all, A, I'm so sorry. I
think that one of the possible reasons that you're feeling
so much fear and anxiety is because, of course, this
is taking you right back to being a kid and
not having any way to protect yourself, right, and so

(52:22):
that is not what's happening right now. Okay, So you're
returning as an adult. Okay, so you are going to
be able to protect yourself. You do get to do
things that nobody did for you as a kid, and
you do get to use your voice, and you do
get to make yourself safe, and one of the ways,

(52:44):
there's there's several ways that you could do that, right,
there's there's no way that you're going to not be safe.
We have to figure out you have to figure out
how to re enter this situation in a way where
you have built what your little self did not have, right,
But I think there are many different ways. One thing

(53:05):
to know is that when there is a sexual abuser
in a family, there's usually not only one victim mhmm.
Every time somebody is certain that they are the only
victim in a family, it very rarely is. Okay. So
when you say, if I tell the truth, it will
sever my family, what you need to know is that

(53:26):
your family is already severed. Okay, your family, that's not
You're not protecting a whole, healthy family right now. You're
protecting a family where you have been severed. M hm.
So if you do decide to bring the one part
of life that protects us, which is truth, to this situation,

(53:51):
you very well might be saving somebody else in your
family who then gets to come forward and say me too,
and me too. And this is how this works mm hmm. So,
when you think about taking the ideal future scenario for
this extremely less than ideal situation. What does that look

(54:13):
like if if you weren't afraid of anything of any
consequence of any buddy's feelings, if anybody, what would it
look like to step back into this and have your
ideal outcome? It would? I think it would be kind
of a combination of things. Both a confrontation where I

(54:34):
feel like I'm the person with the power and in control.
Also telling a few family members, maybe not everyone in
the family, but a few who are particularly close to me.
And then I don't know, some sort of maybe a
strange that sounds forgiveness in the sense that I just

(54:57):
want to let it all go and feels may feel
best for me, But not until confrontation and some truth.
Because there's a process right forgiveness. It can't happen until
we've re established the boundary that was crossed. Right, we
cannot feel forgiveness at all. It doesn't come because forgiveness

(55:19):
comes with safety. You will never ever feel forgiveness until
you have safety, done what you need to do to
make yourself safe. Mm hmm. Are there people? Is there
someone in your family that you would start with? Probably
my siblings, even my brother, my one brother doesn't know,

(55:40):
and then probably my parents. But then it just seems like,
get there. I couldn't tell my parents without them having
to tell some other people. It just seems like a
never ending sort of trickle down stream situation, which is
not your responsibility. Just the fact that you would be

(56:01):
starting that drop of water does not make you responsible
for the waterfall that happens. The person that's responsible for
that is the person that hurt you. All of the
things that are impacting you. I think you said, I
just want to let it all go, and I think

(56:22):
it's important to just take a moment and identify and
moren all that you have had to carry because of this.
You're a person who was hurt so much so early,
could not tell your parents, could not tell your siblings.
You were carrying that burden and that secret as a kid,

(56:45):
and you undoubtedly brought it into other relationships. Undoubtedly that's
an integral part of why you're not living in the
place that where you want to live right now, because
you alone are carrying the burden of someone else's actions.
Everybody else is acting the way they always have. They
gave it to you to carry, and now you have it,
and that is just deeply, deeply unfair, and you changing

(57:08):
the status quo is not you causing a problem for
that family. That family has already has a major problem,
and you're just the only one who's been carrying it.
H And that's just I don't have a solution for it.
But it is deeply, deeply tragic that you have carried
that and that you still view this as your problem

(57:28):
that you have to solve when it was never your problem.
It was somebody else's the whole time. And I also think, like, hey,
this is your story, and you give him power by
withholding it. You're giving that person the power and the
protection by withholding your story. You're not trying to blow
your family up. But this is your truth, and you

(57:48):
can't be responsible for what happens when you share your
truth because the family members that love you and know
you are going to be with you and are going
to be horrified by what happened. Hopeful you know that
would be the normal reaction. And I think that you're
suffering by not telling the closest people to you at
the very least. But you definitely don't owe this whole family,

(58:12):
and you know, relative in community anything but the truth.
This is your truth. You are suffering by yourself. You know. Yes,
you've told some friends, and I'm sure you've been to
therapy at some point, right right, Okay, good, that's great.
But you're only protecting him. You know you're protecting him.
I mean, you're gonna have a huge catharsis by even

(58:34):
sharing this with your brothers or your sisters or your siblings.
That's gonna be maybe might be even enough. You'll never
know until you do it, but you should do that.
At the very minimum. Talk to your brothers and sisters.
You have close relationships with them. You can trust them.
They will be there for you. And if you if
you guys all decide together that it's too much for
your parents or whatever, fine, but I bet you it's
probably not. You know what I mean. It's if this

(58:57):
is your story, this is not for you to suffer alone.
That's not fair. Because somebody did something to you that
you carry it with you and protect him. That's the
dynamic of what's happening, you know, and you have every
right to not want to be in the presence of
him ever again. Why should you ever have to face
that person when he violated you? You shouldn't and your
family should know that. That's how I feel. You're not

(59:19):
a burden. You aren't a burden. And I think so
much of what we try to protect our family from
we feel like it's a protection mechanism for them, but
really it's a blockage of connection. And I think that
your family would prefer to know you fully truly. They

(59:39):
know something families know. We all think, we all think
that it's the truth will destroy our family, but it's
always the secrets that destroy families because trauma, these stories,
they're passed down generation to generation, even when they're not
spoken right. Secrets families affect everybody. We all we know

(01:00:03):
something's up, we know something's up, and then the truth
is revealed and suddenly things make sense. It might hurt,
but things make sense and we are more connected. I mean,
my friend Liz said to me at one point when
I was deciding whether or not to tell the truth
to my family that was going to blow everything up.
She said, every truth you tell is a kindness, even
if it makes other people uncomfortable, and every truth you

(01:00:25):
don't tell is an unkindness, even if it keeps everybody comfortable. Right,
because the truth moves everybody forward, even when it upsets
everybody first. But also, ay, you don't owe anybody the
truth either. You don't owe anybody a goddamn thing. The
only thing that you owe is to yourself and your
safety and your health. And if you decide that not

(01:00:49):
sharing this is what is going to keep you safe
and healthy, and you know that is the truth. You
don't owe anybody a goddamn thing. Like you are supposed
to take care of you. And so if you think
your family at the end of the day is not
trustworthy of this is going to weaponize this against you,
is going to gaslight and confuse things. You don't owe
them that either, Like you just have to know that

(01:01:12):
you are doing what you need to do and you're
not paying the price by staying away from that town
where you want to live in order to keep everybody
they're comfortable. Yeah, those are all great points. I think
I need to reflect a little bit more because I
do see this, this fork of decisions, and I'm still
stuck at the base of which feels right to me,

(01:01:36):
whether it is coming out with everything and potentially losing
even some people close to him that I that I
do like and care for. They probably wouldn't stay in
my life either, or, like you were saying, keeping it
to myself because it feels safer for me. I'm still
I'm still stuck at that base of the fork, and

(01:01:56):
I think I just need to keep reflecting on what
feels best. Yeah, I know you told me on our
pre interview that the move is is set in place,
and I think it's happening in a few weeks. So
I would just say, don't put yourself in any positions
to make any decisions or have to have those conversations
until you're ready, even if you're in town, even if
everybody wants to have a big party for you, you know,

(01:02:18):
take the time that you need and let me ask
you one more question, a do you what does it
look like to you? Like when you think about revealing
this to your family members, Like, what does that look
like to you? Does that scare the ship out of you?
Does that feel like it does? Yeah? Yeah, I mean
not so much my siblings, but my parents absolutely, and

(01:02:39):
then ultimately some of the other family members that would
need to know. Yeah, it's it's I don't even know
where to start except for with my siblings, and I
guess it is maybe one step at a time. Definitely,
one step at a time. That's definitely how you have
to test the waters, you know, because I know that
if my sister was going through something like this that

(01:03:00):
did it tell me, I would be devastated, you know,
I would be so upset. So I know if you
have a close relationship with your siblings like that is
the place to start. And to remember what Glennan said.
You know, you're probably not the only victim in this scenario,
and that's something to consider. Also, what do you all

(01:03:20):
think about confronting him? I mean, I'll go first. Who
cares about him? You know what I mean? I care
about you. You're gonna say all the things that you
wanted to say, like you're talking to a doormat. In
my opinion, he doesn't even deserve your time. I care
more about how you're gonna walk through this feeling secure
and safe at every family gathering that you go to.

(01:03:42):
And a confrontation while you know, we can all fantasize
about the thing we're gonna say, and da da da,
You're not going to change somebody. You know, You're not
gonna change him or make him see the light. I mean,
who knows he's probably he could be scared shitless that
you're moving back. You know, he might be like, oh
fun funk fun. But like confronting him, if it's therapeutic

(01:04:02):
for you, like how do you feel about that? What
do you what do you think when you think of that?
What would you say? It does feel therapeutic, but it
could also be just as therapeutic to write a very
long letter that I never said. But there is a
sense of me that wants to have this sort of
almost face to face this is what you've put me

(01:04:23):
through type of interaction. As long as that interaction and
the value that you imagine getting out of that interaction
is not predicated on any particular response of his, then
go for it. But if you're interaction you imagine him
saying or doing something that then leaving that would make

(01:04:45):
you feel more vulnerable or upset than before you win
in that I think being really honest with yourself that
that everything you have to say has no relation to
how he might respond. Mhm right, because the it's likely
response is going to be gaslighting and and all of
those denying. I think a therapist, a trained therapist, in

(01:05:09):
this way, we'll probably have really good answers here on
what the best script is to talk to your family
about and how to talk to your family about this.
I think that that would be really helpful to like
work workshop that with a therapist. And I don't know
what it's like to be you in the circumstance and
you just have to make the call about confronting this. Dude,
if you have one person in your family that's your

(01:05:31):
that could be your closest ally in this, is there
one sibling that you could start with? Yes, my brother
maybe that's the next straight thing is the one and
then it's the two of you, right making the next
steps together, because this can't be just you and the waterfall,

(01:05:52):
right like slowly one brother maybe and then figuring out
the first sentence you're going to say, mm hmm, that's
probably the one person in the one sentence is where
I would start. Okay, I think I think that's right.
I think that's right. I think you should at least

(01:06:12):
reach out to one person because I can see the
heaviness in you. You know, you're carrying this too much
of this on your own, and family is meant to
share share the grief, the pain, the love and the joy.
All of it is supposed to be spread evenly throughout
all of our lives and all the people in your life.
Are you in a relationship? No, not anymore? Okay, well yeah,

(01:06:33):
I think that you should really strongly consider talking to
your brother as your first move. And I think you're
gonna be really surprised with how therapeutic that's going to
be for you. I can see you're in pain, and
you have every right to be and there's no reason
to suffer through that by yourself. Yeah. Yeah, your family
can't come alongside you and lift you up until they

(01:06:55):
know so does that? One step is is all you
need to think about right now. We're with you. Thank
you so much. Hey, will you keep us posted and
let us know what happens please whenever you do it.
You know, no rush obviously, but whatever happens, let us know.
Check in with us. Okay, yep, I definitely will. So
grateful for all of you. Thank you. I'll be thinking

(01:07:17):
about you. It was great to meet you. Bye bye.
What a sweetheart. Oh my god, you guys. I hate
to see people that are suffering the heaviness in the
you know, all of it is just like palpable and
I know her brother is going to be there for
her obviously. You know, I can understand not wanting to
tell your parents because some parents aren't going to be

(01:07:39):
able to deal with that at all, you know, and
the blame game and all of that things that go
with it. But your siblings, if you have a close
relationship with your siblings like that, is they first stop.
So yeah, hopefully we will hear back from her at
some point about her taking her power back. One of
the strangest things was the week that she wrote in
I had an almost identical email from someone else as well.

(01:08:01):
It just was so interesting. We haven't gotten a question
really like that before. And then in the same within
two days, I think to almost ident like, I'm moving
back to my hometown. My abuser is there. And I
told a that and she was like, wow, it actually
makes me feel so much better to know I'm not
the only one going through this, that there's someone else
who even wrote in you know, yeah, she also might

(01:08:24):
want to consider getting into I just thought of this,
getting into a support group. Yeah, absolutely, support groups. I
mean we're big, we're big support group people. And nowadays,
like everything is online, you can get on Zoom, you
can turn the video off and you can just listen
to a lot of support groups online thinking about secrets
and like, it's just so whatever the secret is. You know,

(01:08:45):
if if a only ends up with truthful, honest relationship
with that one sibling, that's enough, right, right, We actually
don't freaking need our whole families to put we don't
need Most of us don't have that. And it's a
rare family that is healthy enough to handle that well anything, well, yes,

(01:09:06):
handle Christmas much less that. And also having that teammate,
like you guys said, you know, having that teammate you like,
once you tell one person, then it's the two of you.
You're not by yourself navigating. You've got another set of
eyes and another set of ears looking out for you
as well. And that feeling is so much less isolating
than what she must be feeling now thinking about going back. Yeah, sure,

(01:09:28):
Well we'll take a quick break right now and be
right back after this little break and we're back. Well,
I'm not sure how you want to do this, but
we usually have our guests we see if they would
like any advice from Chelsea. We all have questions to you.

(01:09:55):
Go first, is yours gonna be about we'd oh no,
but okay, okay, I don't know if I can't believe
you aren't going to ask about we Okay, go ahead, okay,
because you said a couple of things on our podcast
a couple of days ago that I can't stop thinking about. Chelsea.
You described this personal evolution that has improved your relationships

(01:10:19):
and your life, and you said you used to have
this perspective that if someone disagreed with you, they didn't
know what they were talking about until they agreed with you,
and then you would explain to them some more truths,
which I understand on a cellular level because that is
a little bit how I am. But then you moved
away from that to be more bentable. But then later

(01:10:42):
on in the pod, you said you have a very
strong relationship with telling the truth even if it hurts,
and that's something you're not willing to modify because it's
part of who you are. And my question is, how
do we determine whether our truth that we're feeling as
part of the first bucket this kind of unevolved in

(01:11:06):
transigence that the way you described it, or the second bucket,
which is like this is an important part of my
character and I need to hold onto it for my
own integrity. How can you tell the difference, Well, I
think when you're when you're when you have a need
to be right all the time, it's because you're not listening.
When you're telling the truth, it's because you've listened. You

(01:11:27):
know what I mean, and you've heard. So I think
the two things, while they can be confusing and sound analogous,
they're different because you can bend, because that's everyone should
be able to bend a little. You don't want to
bend over and break your back for somebody, but you
want to be able to bend and manipulate so that
you're not just stuck right like you want to move

(01:11:48):
for people and be like, yeah, I could do that.
I could go to a shopping mall in the middle
of the day, Joe Koy, of course. I mean, I'm
from New Jersey, so it's a bit too soon, but sure,
I'll go to a fucking shopping mall because it brings
you joy. You know. I can bend a little and
do you know what I'm saying. But I'm not going
to change the core character of who I am. I

(01:12:10):
can change my actions, and yes, telling people the truth
in a loving way, not yelling at them and going
why don't you listen to me? I mean saying it
in a fair handed way, like this is the truth
of the situation, always being available for that. So I
think the two are kind of different in that way.
If if I explained that, well, I love Mr. Chelsea's

(01:12:32):
gonna go to the mall. She's gonna go to the mall,
she's gonna bend, She's gonna go to the mall. But
as she's walking through the mall, she's gonna be saying,
I fucking hate this. The truth is malls or trash. Yeah,
I've listened to the I'm gonna say, yeah, I'll go
through the mall and I'll be like, like, here's a
great example. Joe's birthday party. I threw him a birthday
party in Vegas when we were together. It was a

(01:12:53):
three day bonanza. I do not like to go to Vegas.
We went. I had activities like it's you to day.
We had dune buggying for everybody. It's like a hundred
people or whatever it ended up being. We and we
went dune bugging. And I don't have enough sports bras
for that activity. And I. We were Joe and I

(01:13:13):
were due bugging and he's like, God, you're amazing that
you're out here doing this. And he's like, are you
having a good time? I go, absolutely not, you know,
but I'll go I'm not gonna bitch and moan, but
I'm gonna be honest about it. I'm not gonna pretend
I'm having a good time when I'm miserable wondering like
what was going to happen to my body after I
get out of that dune buggy? You know, like where
did my boob go? Because it's no longer attached to

(01:13:35):
the front of me. Also a really stupid activity. Just
want to put and skip that anyone. Not that anyone
listening to this is going dune bugging, but uh, you
know what I mean, Like, I just think, you know,
you have to be open to compromise, but you guy
can't compromise your character. I love it. It's good I
have advice that I want to know. I love it.

(01:13:57):
So Chelsea, I've I'm kind of an advocate for equal pay.
Women's soccer team didn't make equal pay when I was
a player. I didn't make men's pro money. And now
that I've stepped away from playing professional sport, I'm making
more money than I ever did and nobody. What I
like about you is you are fearless and having a

(01:14:18):
conversation about anything. And so now that I'm out of
soccer and earning money, I don't know everything, what to
do with it, who to talk to. It seems like
all the white dudes are behind like this locked door,
and they like hold the keys to all the financial
questions and information, and they try to make it sound

(01:14:41):
so confusing, and so my question might though it might
seem shallow, is you know, I do believe that money
and power are very closely related. And so what do
you do about your finances and your money? And who
do you trust? Like? And where do you what do
you How have you learned about it? Because I know

(01:15:02):
that you've had it for a while and you are
really independent, strong, successful businesswoman. Well thank you. I mean
I first of all, I only have female business managers.
I only work with women. Women are only allowed to
handle my money, no men, just because I like to
work with women period. You know, but I don't know,

(01:15:23):
like I don't know a lot about money either. You know,
I'm looped into lots of different groups that t teach
you about cryptocurrency or you know, but I'm I don't
have that kind of money that I'm throwing around investing
hundreds of thousands of dollars into different ventures and stuff
like that. The one thing I do know, and the
advice that I got a long time ago, is to
always invest in real estate because that is never going
to ever go away, you know, like the value of that,

(01:15:45):
like the value of the dollar can go away, you know,
but I'm not going to sleep with a bunch of
gold bars under my bed. I mean, the reality of
that is unlikely. Also, So I just buy up properties,
you know, when I have a cash flow or an influx,
I buy up a property that I can rent out.
You know. I have a few houses and a few
rental properties, and that's a great source of income and
it's a great investment and it's simple. And I invest

(01:16:08):
in companies to like I just invested in the you
know you as women's volleyball team. They're starting their thing,
you know. I invest in makeup companies or whatever. When
I get a good tip from somebody in my circle
that says, oh, we're putting money in I'll you know,
send it to my people and invest because I think
you always have to be investing, right, you don't ever
know what's gonna what's gonna hit. And you know you

(01:16:28):
have a financial advisor that you do you not have
one of those yet? Financial yeah we do, but like
white men right right, make it seem so fucking complicated.
It's like, these are not the spreadsheets you're looking for.
I know, and I quite honestly, when I talk about finances,
like they'll try and update me on a phone call,

(01:16:49):
and like halfway through, I'm like, let's speed speed this
up because I am not interested in the ins and outs.
Just I have enough money to survive, and I do
you have money to buy this house or not? You know,
like investing things? I think you know, if you give
him a directive like listen, these are the kinds of
companies that I'm interested in supporting, female owned, minority owned.

(01:17:10):
You know, like, let's focus and give him something to
zero in on so he's not just coming back with
you and you're you know, looking at Warren Buffett's portfolio
going oh, well, I guess these are all the things
that are going to make me money, because you guys
are this is an opportunity for you to walk. You walk,
you know what I mean. You guys do all these
amazing things, and now you have an opportunity to do
it with financially and put your money where your mouth

(01:17:30):
is on top of it like that's all the power
in the world. Right, Yeah, it's good. That's good. Okay,
what's your question? Is there an edible? I feel like
you've already asked me this question. I know I want
an edible that will calm me down, but it's not

(01:17:51):
doesn't count as drugs, So I cannot not a psychoactive
that doesn't count as drugs. What about CBD? Okay, can't
you have that? That's doesn't count as th HC th HC.
And first of all, a lot of sober people take marijuana,
but I know that you don't want to do that.
But cb D without the th HC, the th HC

(01:18:12):
is the psychoactive component, right, So that's what you don't
want to be around. And with your personality, you don't
want to be around that. You want to be calm,
something that's going to help you not make you run
in the corner and hide anymore, you know, So you
need a c b D gummy And actually, you know what,
I think I might have something for you because this
is my good friend doesn't like that at all, but

(01:18:32):
she had. She just wanted to calm down, because it's
a body calm and you know, like it doesn't matter
if you're calming down your brain or your body. The
other one will follow, right, Like everyone thinks that you
have to treat this thing, and it's like, well, you
can treat either one because we're it's so interconnected. You
have a brain in your stomach, you have a brain
in your heart, and you have a brain in your head.
You know, there are three brains working in our bodies.

(01:18:52):
So and everyone just thinks this is the only one
that matters. It's not, you know, it's our gut, it's
all of our things. So but I will put it together.
They're an array of things that do not have th HC.
A gift basket for you now that your local. A
year later, I will put together a gift a basket
of things that have no th HC. What about Hemp? Great?

(01:19:14):
Love him? Okay, great, I just I just invested in
another company, this Hemp drink company. That's perfect. I'm gonna
send you some of that. I'm going to send you
a couple of other things. I'll put together a nice
care package as soon as I get home today. I
have a refrigerator filled with cannabis in my gym from
top to bottom for every kind of user. So I
will go in there and personally figure it out. Yeah,

(01:19:36):
just make sure it's not it's not psychoact. No, I
know what we're dealing with. Abby. Okay, well, because you
also have three teenagers in this house who are like this.
Yeah right, well, we'll put this in a special case
in the bedroom and the big girl's bedroom. This was
so delightful you guys. I love all three of you.

(01:19:58):
What a great couple of what a great week we've had. Seriously,
I just feel so honored you have been part of
this week to week. It was big week. Yeah, it
was a very cathartic week for me, and it was transformative.
I feel so much lighter after our time together, uh
the other day and today again. Same. We love you,

(01:20:19):
We love you. We will be in your corner forever.
Me too. Likewise, also, we're going to be in your
house soon. I am I inviting us over. Sorry, Okay, well,
my house has been built right now, So you'd have
to invite me to your house because my house is
I'm in a rental and I'm not trying to show
that off. Then come to our house. I will. I'll
come over for sure. And so nice to meet you, Katherine,

(01:20:39):
Thank you for having us, Thank you bye. If you'd
like to ask Chelsea a question, email us at Dear
Chelsea Project at gmail dot com