He/She/They with Schuyler Bailar

Trans athlete and activist Schuyler Bailar joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about why simply believing trans youth is the most important thing, why language matters, and the truth about trans folx playing sports.  Then: A Florida teacher wrestles with how to talk to her students about a world outside their own.  A soccer wife struggles to find time away with her husband - that doesn’t involve cleats.  And a New Yorker wonders if it’s for real as they ponder a move to the countryside for their new beau.

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Find Schuyler’s book here!

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Get involved:

Trevor project

Folx health

Black Trans Liberation

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Oh hello Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thanksgiving. I was gonna say Thanksgivings over, but I meant
to say Halloween is over. Thank God.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
You are not a person who dresses up right now.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello Please. My roommate that I'm living with right now
said to me, he said, I just want to live
in a neighborhood where there's not going to be any
trick or treating. And I was like, oh my god,
that's exactly how I feel. I am such a Halloween scrooge.
There's nothing more insulting to me than adult Halloween parties. See.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I love going to my friend's houses in Burbank.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Bourbank goes crazy because it's all the people who work
for Disney, so they've got these crazy yard displays and
like give out tons of candy. I love giving out candy.
I think it's so fun.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
That sounds right, Catherine, I can see you enjoying that.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
But Chelsea's speaking of fun things. I have an update
for us that's actually really exciting.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
O good. I like updates so positive. Well, we don't
get a lot of negative ones. I guess obviously, why
would they call them? Be like, you ruined my life.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Chelsea, This update is from d And she called in
a while back and she was really stressed about her neck.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh while back while.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
That was me emphasizing, so you understand to say long while.
But she was dating her boyfriend for like seven years.
He hadn't proposed, and she was like super duper stressing
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
He'd kind of given her.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
A timeline sort of, but she says, Dear Chelsea, I
wrote in seventeen months ago expressing agony waiting for my
boyfriend to propose.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, you were right. Just one month.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Later he did propose on a sweet trip to beautiful
up North Michigan. Flashed forward to our wedding this summer,
which was stunning beyond words. It was a musical backyard
wedding where the love of our closest friends and families
surrounded and lifted us. It's silly I was ever impatient,
because the day was perfect and came at the exact
right time. Your advice was to have the hard conversation.

(02:00):
Since then, we've had a few. We learned more about
communication and each other, and now when I'm feeling anxious
before a serious talk, I remind myself that it's worth
sharing instead of dwelling all alone in my head. Attach
to our a couple moments from our day. We're a
family of musicians. But that was my first time performing
and it was all at once terrifying and so so fun.

(02:22):
Thank you for taking my call. Another unforgettable experience. I
look forward to Dear Chelsea every week and will forever
admire and aspire to me more like her. Strong, voracious, intuitive,
and funny. Cheers to you and hashtag problem solved.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
And here is a cute picture of her on her
wedding day.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Oh that are cute. Look at that. Oh that's cute.
I'm happy for them.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I know, I just thought those so lovely.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, so thanks for letting us know, d and congratulations.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Everyone needs to not rush everything. No, rushing don't make
things happen. Them happen.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, and having good heart conversations I think is a
great lesson As you go into your marriage as well,
there will be lots of hard conversations, and I think
it is worth having them the right way.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Who knows what I said to her about that, but
it sounds like it worked.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Out some great wisdom. I'm sure great. Well, so, Chelsea,
we have an awesome guest today.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
So welcome to the podcast, Skyler Baylor.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Thank you for having me here.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yes, yes, Chelsea Handlers, Skyler Baylor, here we are together.
The book is called A He She They How we
talk about gender and why it matters. And I found
it so informative because you really break down a lot
of things that I think people who aren't open to
transness or have experienced transness in their lives, or anyone
who's gone through this, there's so many different angles. It's
such a spectrum of a different experience for everybody. Now,

(03:49):
are you transitioned how many years ago?

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Eight?

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Eight years ago? And you're an athlete and you was
swimming on your college team. Yes. I think first what
I want to talk about is is because there's a
lot to dive into on that front. But I want
to talk about how you know there's something in your
book the simplest way for you to explain that transness
is not the sum of someone's external parts. How married

(04:13):
we are to the idea that if you have a vagina,
you're a girl and there's nothing in between. Yeah, can
you start to that?

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah? Well, I mean I think the there's a fundamental
lie we've all been told, which is that how our
bodies look at birth is equal to our gendered experience
in the world and our gender identities, and even our biology.
Isn't that simple, right, We're told that biology is either
penis or vagina, either xx or x y. But there's
so much complexity even within biological sex. There's chromosomal diversity,

(04:42):
hormone diversity, and other types of genitalia diversity. So even
if we look at the quote basic biology, even that
is diverse. And so people have this again fundamental belief
that is from a lie. It's told to us when
we're kids that this is only two categories, and the
realities it's far more complicated than that, has pretty much
everything else in.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Our life well exactly. And it's interesting that this conversation
is so prevalent now. So please enlighten my audience and
tell us about your experience. And let's start with the sports.
Let's start with you and competing on a male team
from being a female. So this is kind of the
opposite of the arguments we're facing right now, or we
hear a lot of I shouldn't say we're facing, but

(05:21):
we are as a society that a lot of people
have a big problem with men transitioning into transitioning to
females and then competing in sports, and you did the opposite, right, Yeah,
and how did that work out for you?

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, I want to go back just a little bit
a couple of language notes. So what I always recommend
people say is what somebody's assigned at birth? Right, So
I was assigned female birth and I am a man
people that you're talking about. You said men transitioning to female.
We would say people assigned male at birth who identify
as women, or just calling them trans women transfeminine folks.
As just a little language shift, right, And I talk
about why in the books if people can check that out. So, yes,

(05:57):
people much more focus on transwomen transformin folks. People have
this belief that there's something unfair about that. The sort
of translation to my situation is that people then think
that I wouldn't possibly be able to compete against CIS men, right,
that somebody like me, a transgender man, wouldn't be able
to compete against assis men because they expect that I
would just lose. And it turns out that I ended
up doing Okay, I didn't lose to everybody. I actually

(06:18):
was in the fifth and eighty seven percent house, So
it's faster than eighty five and eighty seven percent of
all men in the NCAA at my events. So I
didn't win everything right, but I also didn't suck, And
I think it's an important note. And there's other transmen
like me who've also not only lost right, who've also
done okay. We've got some trans athletes out there who
are transmen, who actually have beat almost all men in

(06:39):
their categories in their sports. So I think that sort
of ruptures this idea that everybody assigned male at birth,
such as CIS men and such as trans women, is
automatically better than anybody assigned female birth, such as me
as a transman or a SIS woman.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
And so was there any pushback at your school when
that was publicly known that you were going to be
competing on the team as a transgender man.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
On my team specifically, I experienced actually quite an overwhelm
of support. So I went to Harvard and my coaches
were very supportive. They actually were the ones that came
up with the idea in the first place. They said,
if you identify as a man, why don't you swim
for the men's team because I have been recruited to
swim for the women's team, and they were just trying
to find what would make me happiest. They said, you
know what, you want, you to be happy, and we
want to do whatever it takes to create the space

(07:23):
for you to be happy, just like any other athlete.
I think when we talk about sports, there's a hyper
focus on trans people trying to transition for a purpose, right,
transition to win, transition to get access to the bathrooms,
get transition whatever, to hurt children. There's a very demonized
view of trans people, and the reality is we don't
transition to play sports. We transitioned because we're trans and

(07:46):
we want to live right, and we happen to be athletes.
And I think my coaches and my teammates actually saw
that in some really actually impressive ways where they put
my humanity first.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
And how old were you when you transitioned?

Speaker 4 (07:58):
I realized I was trans right after my teenth birthday,
a couple months after, and then I began to shift
how I was presenting in the world somewhere around eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
In that space, and when you realize this, what does
that realization look like? I mean, there are pictures in
the book of you as a female. So how did
you feel as a woman until the age of eighteen
when you had that realization, like as a girl growing up?
What was your thinking?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because language and
how we talk about these things, to me is really important.
I don't think I ever felt like a girl, So
I always like to offer again a shift of language,
and that it wasn't when I was a girl, but
when I presented myself as a girl, when I looked
like a girl, when other people thought I was a girl,
because I didn't wake up one day, you know, you
ask me, what does it feel like to realize that

(08:42):
I'm trans? What was my childhood like? I didn't wake
up one day and oh my god, now I'm trans. Right,
I've always felt this way about my gender, similar to
I think I would. I would expect you've always felt
a specific way about your gender, and you've always had
a specific feeling about your womanhood that equals your womanhood, right,
and so I've always had a fee that is my
gender and experience it is my gender, but I haven't

(09:03):
always been able to express that. So I think for
a lot of my childhood That was a conflict for
me because everybody gave me the word girl, and I
was like, that doesn't fit. But I didn't have other words.
I didn't have other community. I didn't have people to say, oh,
if that doesn't fit, well, here's all these other identities
that you could have access to. I just was handed tomboy,
and so I was religiously attached to the word tomboy.

(09:24):
If people ask me who I was, I would say, Hi,
I'm Skylar. I'm a tomboy, right, That's the first answer
I would give them. And I was very connected to
that word because that's what it was closest right to
my identity. For a lot of my childhood, I was
I really struggled because I think I was bullied a
lot for looking different, acting different. All the girls would say, well,
you're not a real girl, and the boys would say, well,

(09:45):
you're not a real boy. So that was a very
difficult space to be in. I was bullied in bathrooms,
harassed in bathrooms, thrown out of bathrooms, so I couldn't
even like pee in peace, you know, And so I
tried really hard in high school to be that girl.
But the pictures that you saw in the book are
pictures of me in high school when I we really
tried to conform to whatever it meant to be this woman,
and it made me miserable. I mean, I was struggling

(10:06):
with an eating disorder, with depressions, suicidality, self harm. I
was really struggling, even though externally I was doing all
the things everybody wanted me to do.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, which I think is the most common theme when
people don't understand the struggle that anyone questioning their sexual
identity has to deal with and the suicidal thoughts that
come with it, and how much pain you know it
can cause to not feel like you're living your truth.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Yeah. Well, I think that that is actually a universal experience.
People who don't have an experience with transits are no
people who are trans might not understand. And I think
you're right, But the reason they don't understand is because
they're not extrapolating the same emotions that they could have. Right.
We've all felt like we didn't belong. We've all felt
like a part of ourselves wasn't accepted to somebody else.
We've all, I think, hidden pieces of ourselves in some

(10:48):
social situations. And if we can extrapolate to living your
whole life like that, right, having your whole society believe
in this lie that you're for me, supposed to be
this girl and you're not. I think there's actually a
lot more empathy we can strike with others.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, there seems to be a real dearth of empathy
when with regards to other people's choices. But also it's
just such a representation of otherness, right, Like people can't
understand something that they haven't been through. And when you
hear people ask questions, I find myself always we're in
such a divisive time already as a society, you know,

(11:23):
and then all of these conversations, it's just like there's
like a boiling point that it feels like we're at,
you know what I mean, like almost on the brink
of enlightenment but not quite there, and who knows, who
knows if it will happen in our lifetime, but almost,
you know, Like, because there's so many feelings about this
and so many opinions about what's I mean, especially in

(11:45):
our country with everything that's going on with legislation alone,
you know, it's really frightening to know that little children
are being denied their own existence. So tell me a
little bit about emotionally what it means to you to
be living your truthfulness now, what it means. And also,
I do want to get into a little bit. This
is something I've said before on the show, but I
don't think people realize how difficult, like you said, you know,

(12:07):
like as if you're going to transition to be on
a sports team. It's not that fucking simple to transition.
It is an arduous, arduous process that takes years of counseling.
It's not like you go in one day and you
come out and you're the opposite sex people who are
doing this. There are less than one percent of people
that have any regret about doing the surgery. There are

(12:28):
more people who get breast reductions or plastic surgery who
go in and try it to reverse things than there
are people who a.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Lot not like a little bit, right, yes, yes, thirty
times more kind of mounts.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, So talk to me a little bit about that
journey for you and your happiness, your self esteem and
all of the things that developed by becoming by stepping
in the in the shoes of the real person that
you are.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
I mean, I can tell you that I'm happier than
I ever was before my transition. And I think I
can say that with so much conviction and peace and
people who have tried to challenge that by you know,
if I ever say that I'm struggling with any kind
of mental health anything, people like see trans people are
mentally ill, and I'm always like, well, I'm a real person, right,
And I do experience difficulty here and there in my life.

(13:16):
But there's a weight that I'm no longer carrying, which
is this weight of being somebody I'm not right. I'm
not carrying around this fear that I'm a fraud, that
I'm not who I say I am, that there's this
other part of me that I wish I could show
the world, but I can't. Right, I don't have to
do that anymore because I get to be all of myself.
I will say, though there is a deep grief that
I experience in being able to be myself now watching

(13:39):
the amount of anti trans legislation that's going around the country.
I get access to my hormones, I can take my testosterone.
I've had my top surgery. Most of the people in
my life respect me for who I am, and you know,
I have a home, a partner, right Like, I have
a life that I really like, and there's so many
trans people that don't have that right now. And so
every time I take my shot, my testosteron shot, which

(13:59):
I just died yesterday, I think about that. I think
about how much of a privilege it is for me
to be able to have access to my life saving
medical care. And I don't ever want to see that
as something that I take for granted. But I also
sort of make a resolution to myself every time I
do my own shot and say, this is me also
fighting for other people to be able to have the
same access. So there's this dual duality to it. I

(14:21):
feel this piece and this happiness, this immense gratitude, but
I also feel grief and anger and frustration because while
I get to live as myself, there are so many
others who can't.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
And are there any organizations that you work closely with
that people who are listening can support donate to, Like,
can you shout out some places that you've worked with
or that you've experienced with.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
Well, you've heard of the Trevor Project, I'm sure. So
the Trevor Project is an LGBTQ plus suicide Hotline. They
think they do amazing work that's supported of the community.
I also think there's Folks Health. I work with. Folks
Health is a telehealth company that serves transom quer community.
I get my tasosterone directly from Folks. Their providers are
queer and trends and it's a way to actually get
access to healthcare specifically gender for being healthcare that doesn't

(15:01):
go through avenues where the doctors might not understand us
as trans people. Right, There's a lot of discrimination in
healthcare elsewhere, so I love Folks Health. There's a lot
of really great location specific places equality Florida, Quality Texas.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Is there a quality in Florida or Texas?

Speaker 4 (15:16):
A company? A company?

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I guess they have to. I guess that's where they
have to start.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right, Florida they are fighting for I think it's breadth
this he's fighting for right, right, right. But yes, yeah,
so's There's a lot of really great grassroots organizations that
I think are awesome to support. There's the Black Transliberation
is a one out of a New York City actually
with an amazing activist, Queen Jane, and she works to
provide better care for black trans folks that live at
the intersections of many systems of oppression. So there's I

(15:41):
could spend all day on I don't want to take
too much.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Well, but no, I thank you. The more information we have,
the better. Talk to me a little bit about your
book and your family dynamics and how things shifted or
didn't shift with your family, how they received this information,
and what kind of support you were able to get
from them.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
My parents did a really amazing job showing me love,
and they struggled on the understanding. So when I first
I'll just sort of like a summary. When I first
came out to both of them, they were kind of like, okay,
now what you know, And there was this sort of
I don't want say, nonchalance but not sure what to
do and not wanting to say something bad right or
make me feel sad, And so there was an an

(16:18):
acceptance in that moment. But then when I decided that
I wanted to move forwards in terms of transition, I
wanted to get top surgery. I was considering testosterone, that
was much more difficult for them, and I think especially
for my mom, there was a resistance of you know,
why change your body? There's nothing wrong with it, and
the very loud, very common what if you regret it?

Speaker 6 (16:36):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:36):
What if you don't want this? Actually? And so there
I had a lot of really difficult conversations, some screaming matches.
Wouldn't recommend the screaming, of course, but you know, difficult
times with both my parents trying to get them to understand.
And I think the moment where things began to shift
was again a screaming match, So again don't recommend the screaming.
Where I said to them, I'm not asking you to
understand me. Actually, I'm just asking you to trust me.

(16:58):
And I think there's a crucial swich which we often
experience people in a way that makes us think we
have to understand, right, I have to understand I don't
get it, and therefore it's not real, or therefore I
can't support it. But we actually can support and love
people we don't understand. We can support and love and
validate entities that we don't understand. Right, I don't know
how a microphone works. I'm sitting here. I know it works,
but I don't know how it works. And it's still

(17:19):
very real. Right. Just as an example, we can translate
that to transness. We don't have to understand the inner
working is of transness or transweople. Yeah, right, them to
be real, right, And I think when my parents understood
that there was actually more space to love me, more
space to trust me, more space to hold my hand
as I walk down this journey on my own with
their support, right, And I think that that has been

(17:40):
a crucial theme in our relationship.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, because as a parent, I mean I can't imagine
what it must feel like toa you. You know, it
must feel like a loss in some sense, and then
such a gain when you're out on the other side
of it, but also such a fear of what could
happen and what could be subjected to in terms of
other people, bullying, discrimination, And as a parent, I just
nobody ever wants their child to be subjected to any

(18:06):
sort of pain, which is obviously an impossible task or ideal.
I mean, everyone's going to experience it, but I think, yeah,
I can't imagine how difficult that must be for some parents.
But again, at the end of the day, it is like,
you want your child to be whatever they're supposed to
be and realize their dreams. That's all you could ever want.
Is your child to be happy. That's the most important thing.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, but there is letting go. And so one of
the things I coach a lot of parents through their
child's transitions. They reach out to me and I know,
I see the kid and I see the parent, and
a lot of times there is a lot of grief
about their kid. And there's sort of two main categories
of grief. One is I thought I had a daughter
or I thought I had a son and now I
don't and I'm sad. And the other one is I
don't want my kid to be hurt in the world. Right,

(18:47):
I know that them being openly trans is going to
cause them pain, and I think there's a good response
to both. The first in terms of them being bullied. Yes,
your kid is going to be bullied by other people
for being trans. I have no doubts because the world
we live in there's going to be transphobia. But if
you bully your kid, then you are contributing to that,
right it is, It is unequivocal that other people are
going to do so. But do you want to create

(19:07):
your home as a place where they're going to be
bullied to?

Speaker 5 (19:09):
Right?

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Your only decision is actually do I also bully my
kid or do I protect them at home? So that's
the first thing. The second one is grieving who you
thought they were. I think that parents grieve who they
think their kids are every day. Right, If we're actually
letting the kid grow up and be their own self,
regardless of whether or not their trands or queer, there's
always little things we're letting go of unless the kid
becomes one hundred percent our expectations, and if they do,

(19:32):
they're probably not themselves.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
Right.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
So I think there's actually a fundamental realization for parents
to have. And again I've watched parents go through this
as I've coached them, where they're actually realizing they have
to let their kid grow up as themselves, transness involved
or not, and they have to let go of their
expectations for who they want the kid to be again,
transness or not.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, that's a great point, very salient. You're going to
be really good at giving advice to people. Yeah. No,
it brings like tears to my eyes because I this,
this is why I'm not a parent, because it's so
painful to see anyone you love go through anything difficult,
Like imagine, you know, like what you're saying is so true.
Your kid is never going to be exactly You're always

(20:12):
mourning what they were or their age or them being
little and then growing up and they don't need you
as much and you know so it's a great way
to frame that conversation. Okay, Well, on that note, we're
going to take a break and we'll be right back.
And we're back, Catherine, what did you drum.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Up for us? So many things that I can see.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
He's gonna be Skyler's gonna be no pressure, Skyler. But
Skyler's going to be really good at this. So I
can't wait.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
With all of your resillions of degrees from Harvard, I
think you will be just fine.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
I only have one, just one.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
He only has one degree from Harvard.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Okay, but on different times, Okay, can you tell us
what your degrees are in because reading your book, I
was like, wait, not only does Skyler have this experience
as a transman and an athlete, he also has this
amazing education, Like that's why this book is so good.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Oh well, thank you. I focused in cognitive neuroscience and
evolutionary psychology, which is in the psychology department. Awesome, awesome,
So like the science y version of psych So.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
You transitioned while you were at Harvard or do you
want to?

Speaker 4 (21:18):
I mean, I think I was still sort of in
the process of transitioning, but I got top surgery and
started to saus before I began, So I took a
gap year between high school and college, and that's where
I learned about myself. I was in actually a residential
treatment center for my eating disorder at the time and
just sort of like doing a lot of introspection because
I was really sick. But end of high school and.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
You're eating disordered was related to you?

Speaker 4 (21:39):
You know, it wasn't it wasn't? You know? I think
mental health can be really complicated. For me. I had
a lot of childhood stuff I was also working through.
And who's to say you can't distinguish it completely from
my transness, because I think my transit was a big
part of my childhood trauma as well. Right, it's just
really involved. But I think a main driving factor to
my discomfort in my body was my transness.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, it's interesting to think about all those eating disorders.
When they ever they say, oh, it's about control, It's like, well,
it is a lot about control, but it's also about
a bevy of other things.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Eating disorders are not simple, not just of the realms
of I'm actually on the Eating Disorder Coalition board and
so I do a lot of work in the eating
disorder space, and they're very complicated disorders. And I think
people think, you know, it's just about women wanting to
be thin, you know, and it's it's really not. It
can present that way, sure, but it is. It's about
control is a part of it. But it's also about

(22:31):
sort of dissonance with one's self and how one shows
up in the world. It's about self worth, it's about
negative schema. Is There's a lot of like underlying factors
that contribute to eating disorder risk. There's a very high
percentage of LGBTQ plus people compared to non LGBTQ plus
people who have eating disorders, and a lot of that
is if you look at the risk factors, social isolation

(22:51):
is one of them, Bullying is one of them, gender
ideals and body image ideals are one of them, and
if you think about how queer people and trans people
are treated, all of those are like heightened risk factors
for us.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Okay, so yeah, so our first email comes from Dane
and this is actually a follow up from our Dylan
mulvaney episode. Dane as a trans man who was struggling
with his relationship with his mom, but also through our conversation,
we realized he didn't really have any trans community around him,
so we really encouraged him there and even some Dear

(23:24):
Chelsea listeners wrote in to get connected with him. So
Dane says, hey, there, just wanted to check in and
let you know I'm doing a lot better than the
last time we spoke. Andrew, who was someone we connected
him with through Dear Chelsea who had written in. Andrew
and I have become great friends. We hang out a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's been great to become.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Friends, especially from sharing such a vulnerable part of myself
so publicly and having it turn out like this.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
We're planning to.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Get tickets to see Chelsea's show together in Portland in November.
Can't wait to laugh it up and cheer for her.
Thanks again for everything, Dane.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh that's that's heartwarming. Yeah, isn't it nice? I mean
friends make all the difference. Yeah, you only need one friend.
Sometimes you just need one. I mean you'll get more,
but you know what I mean, you just it's like
you only need one person to believe in you. When
you're a kid, there are times in your life where
you feel so lonely and all you need is just
like one person, Yeah, you know, to make you feel
so much less alone. That's nice. I love that.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
There's actually really interesting research that supports that if a
trans kid has one supportive adult in their life, they
have a dramatically reduced rate of suicide. So that one support,
that one friend can really change somebody's life. And I
think we all I think about that fact all the time,
because one person being nice to one other person is
a really small ask. And I think any of your listeners,

(24:41):
anybody can be nice to one transkid, one person and
truly save their life.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, And I think that applies to you know, any person.
When you see somebody going through something, or you can
you can sense somebody's alone or feeling lonely, or sense
that there's a sense of hopelessness about them. You know,
it's always important, even if you don't know that person,
to just like reach out and grab their hand and
say are you okay? Like do you need help? Do

(25:06):
you need support? You can change people's lives all the time.
But just being sensitive to the people that are around you,
because people are always going through shit, and I know
when that's happened to me and someone's noticed, like, oh,
your energy's off or something's going on with you, it's
so meaningful that somebody even takes the time to address it.
Imagine what you could do for somebody who's in a
tremendous amount of pain or discomfort, or if doesn't feel

(25:27):
seen or doesn't feel heard. So I want to always
encourage all of our listeners to really, you know, reach
out when you feel or you see somebody that needs help. Please,
You're never going to regret that.

Speaker 4 (25:38):
And it can be something really small, right, just saying
I see you. Like I was at a speech recently
and I was talking about what I would tell a
trans kid in this specific there's a specific scenario that
give they gave me, and I was like, actually, it's
very simple. All I would say to that kid is
I believe you. I believe you for who you are.
You tell me who you are, you tell me what
your pronouns are, and I believe you, and that's it.
And this kid started bawling in the audience, like just

(25:59):
crying in his mind was there too, and the mom
was crying, and they came up to me afterwards, and
both of them are crying, and then I was crying,
and it was all just because I said, I believe you,
you know, and I think we don't do that enough.
We don't tell people I believe you, I hear you.
I believe your experience is real to you, and therefore
it's real to me. Yeah, and I think we need
to do that more.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, for sure, Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah. Well, our first caller is Sloan, just thirty one.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Okay, I just want to say that Skyler and Sloan,
we're two of my cabbage patch names growing up. They
were sisters and the Skyler, Sloane, and Gretchen were the
three girls. Very nice.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, I wish I had a Gretchen calling in today,
but no doubt. Sloan's email the subject line is how
to stop arguing with fifth graders about Trump?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
And Skyler.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
I know you talked in your book about you know,
you speak to a lot of kids, and you talk
about what kids have taught you about transnis.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
So I thought this would be a good email to
share with you. Dear Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
I'm a school librarian, and I'm very passionate about my work.
I've been an education for seven years now. I used
to be a classroom teacher as well. In the past
few years have been tough for many reasons, but also
because of the politics seeping into our school culture. I
teach in the South, so I think we can all
make an educated guess who many of the families around
here voted for. I feel like a fish out of

(27:16):
water in the area I teach. I try not to
let their comments and strong beliefs bother me, but damn,
it's getting really hard. And to be honest, I hate confrontation,
but when people are saying openly racist, homophobic, anti trans
and politically ignorant things, it makes my heart rate speed
up and I find it hard to bite my tongue,
especially when the students are saying all kinds of things.

(27:38):
I mean, seriously, what six year old actually has an
opinion about a wall being built? However, when I do
speak up, even in the least confrontational way I can,
it ostracizes me from the community, which is a crappy feeling,
whether it's my principle making an insensitive joke or the
parents trying to ban books with queer characters. It's all
just exhausting. I could move schools, but it would mean

(27:59):
a pay cut. How do I stay professional at work
and not let things bother me while still sticking up
for what I believe? Sloan?

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Hi, Sloan, Hi, how are you Hi?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Cute? Look at you? Hi, cutie? How are you hi? Sloan?
I was just telling them Skyler's our special guest today,
Skyler Baylor, And I was just telling our audience that
my Cabbage Patch kids growing up were Sloan, Skyler, and Gretchen.
So we just need to get a Gretchen in here
and then we're all set perfect. Do you live in Florida?

Speaker 7 (28:34):
Basically?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, basically that's an interesting way to put it. Yeah,
it sounds like it. Do you want to start this?
Because I have to think, I feel this. I don't
know how you could even live there, so I have
to think about what advice to give you because I
have such an intolerance for intolerance.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
Oh gosh, Yeslan, nice to meet you.

Speaker 7 (28:57):
You know.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
My first thought is a lot about how you are
centering yourself outside of school, which might sound kind of funny,
but I think a lot of what we do in
our jobs or in difficult situations are reflections of how
much energy we have elsewhere. So my first thought is, like,
where can you find space that you do have community?
Where can you find space where you are not fighting
people with fifth graders on Trump's wall and what have you.

(29:21):
But that's important, yes, the consideration at school though, when
you're actually doing these these tasks, trying to have these conversations.
A couple thoughts. The first thing is that you said
not having a tolerance for intolerance. I think somehow I
have learned some sort of tolerance for intolerance, and a
lot of it comes from trying to actually dig into empathy.
And I think I've interfaced with so many people who

(29:42):
deeply don't believe that I exist. They like will stand
in front of me and absolutely say, we don't believe
in trans people. I don't believe in Actually the newest
one people are now going back on mixed race marriages right,
anti misseggenation laws, So like, don't I shouldn't exist in
that front either as a mixed race kid. Like people
will take up part my danny to say I'm not Korean,
I'm not this, I'm not trans, I'm not a man.

(30:03):
I'm whatever right, and they'll stand in front of me
trying to deny my existence. And what I see is
a whole lot of systems that have lied to them,
that cause them to believe these things and then hold
on to them because it's their reality. And so when
I interface with kids who are stuck here, I have
to first understand that they're just repeating with what their
parents have said, which you know. But what do I
do with them? I like to ask them questions, And

(30:24):
it's actually a lot less energetically draining to say no,
you're wrong. Instead, I say why do you say that?
Where did that come from? Where did you learn that?
And if you really press especially you said coworkers making
racist jokes, if you press them, hey, I don't think
you can play dumb, right, I don't think I understood
what that meant, Like, what does that joke actually mean?
You can get some really interesting places with that, And

(30:45):
I think I like to dig at the core right
by asking questions like that, and if anything, you'll make
them think right, and at the worst case, you won't
get anywhere. I'll be like, it's just a joke, and
they'll move on. Right, But I think it's easier, at
least for my system to do that, to be like,
why are you talking about this? Why do you care
about this? What do you mean by this? Instead of
trying to tell them that they're wrong. So that's sort

(31:06):
of my approach, and it hinges on empathy that says,
I understand why you are this way, right, especially with
the fifth graders, right, they're not actively hateful. They're repeating
what their parents are saying because they want to belong, right,
they want to belong with their parents, and so they're
saying the thing that allows them to belong with their parents,
and that is the most basic human thing to do.

(31:27):
So I also that helps me have more tolerance for
those moments.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I also, you know, I mean you're in the education system.
I think I love everything that Skyler just said, because
I think that is the right way to get, you know,
to be a little bit smarter than your emotions, right,
to get rise above the situation. And since you are
in the field of education, you know, it is important
to point out to the adults within your school system

(31:51):
who make those comments in a different way than it
is with children, because in children it is good to
probe them to make them think about why they're saying
is something or why they may think they have the
mental framework for something, you know, because then that really
pushes you beyond the surface and what do you really
think about this? But also with regard to adults, you know,
I call it the miseducation of America. They want everyone

(32:13):
just to be so stupid and dumb and not educated,
which is so ironic. You know, in the field of
education that people support this book banning and this anti
trans legislation, but it also just is very uneducated to
not know more about these issues. It's always, you know,
there's always more to learn and there's more to know.
So when I think when you're dealing with the adults,
you don't want to lose your temper, you don't want

(32:33):
to lose your shit. You seem like, you know, you
have a very good disposition. In the two seconds I
saw you, I mean that I'm looking at you and
on camera and your energy like I don't see you
as somebody who's doing that anyway, And I think there's
a very joyful way for you to express yourself without
being so threatening to the other adults that you might
feel or that you know that you have different views
and value systems, you know, and beliefs while remaining true

(32:57):
to who you are. I think that's always a challenge
that we face as adults, is to figure out the
most reasonable way to go through life while I'm not
selling your soul, Like you don't ever want to pretend
you believe that or that you agree with them, But
there's a way for you to handle it with a
plum you know.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
I kind of have a good example of where it
just gets so sticky is last week I had a
six year old girl like looking to check out a
book and we were running out of time, and I
was like, what about this Clifford Halloween book because it
looked awesome, and she was like, oh, I can't get that.
My mom doesn't let me watch Clifford. There's two moms
in that show.

Speaker 7 (33:32):
And I was like what.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
And then I was like uh, And I just I
get stumbled because I'm like, I don't want to be
the woke agenda and doctrinating the children and trying to
push my beliefs on them, but at the same time like, Okay,
there's two moms in it. That's normal, But I can't.
It's just hard and you just get stuck. You're just
kind of like, whoa, you are six years old and
you just said that, and so you get kind of

(33:54):
stuck on what to say sometimes without pushing your beliefs
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Right, And I don't think you necessarily have to push
your agenda though on a six year old. But what
you can do is what Skyler was talking about, which
is actually ask questions about it without impressing your agenda
on them, you know, asking questions like, oh, you know,
you don't have to do that every time. You know,
I don't want you to get in trouble and get

(34:20):
fired at work, because I know that's a thing in
Florida too, and it sure is. But you know, I
love the asking questions like oh, you've never seen a
family with two moms or you know, maybe not in
that moment, but down the road, knowing what kind of
frame of mind you're dealing with, and possibly probing it
in more, you know, in ways that aren't directly related

(34:40):
to her not getting the book.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Clifford, I think it's also like inviting the kid to
think on their own, right, Like, I know there's a
very large amount of people trying to push like, oh,
it's pushing an agenda. Trans people don't have an agenda.
We just want to live, right, That's really our agenda.
And I think that's important to recognize. But the narrative
is strong, That's that's the agenc. I think you can
you can talk about these topics and let the kid

(35:04):
actually think for themselves. And I think that's what I
would do in that moment. If the kids said to me, oh,
I can't get that there's two moms, I'd say, Oh,
that's interesting. I'm just curious, like, what do you think
about that? What is your thought? Do you is there something?
I'm just curious, right, And I would just like ask
them that question, if anything, not to get them to
check out the book or to go against what their
mom has said, but just to invite them to have

(35:25):
their own opinion about do you think anything about somebody
having two moms?

Speaker 6 (35:30):
Right?

Speaker 4 (35:30):
And I think that critical thinking is actually there's a
bigger problem with our education systm, which is that we're
not inviting critical thinking. We're not inviting kids to think
a little bit further than whatever they're told. And that's
a huge problem. And the whole indoctrination messaging that trans
people or queer people are trying to indoctrinate kids. It's
completely the opposite, which is that these systems that are
trying to ban books, that are trying to stop education

(35:52):
about black people, about trans people, about queer people, about
our history of systemic racism. Right, all of that is
indoctrinating the kids to not think right and to just
accept whatever's put on the page and let it be there.
And that's really dangerous because we want kids that think.
Who doesn't want kids that think people who are controlling
the country.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
What do you think about that, Slan, Yes, definitely.

Speaker 7 (36:12):
I think I just need to sometimes.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
I just when I hear that stuff, I go to
like emotional reaction mode and I need to just I
love the asking questions and just kind of almost playing
dumb and just be.

Speaker 7 (36:23):
Like, oh, what what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Why do you think that? And also putting it in
your back pocket so you know, for later when there's
an opportunity for another question that can probe their thinking
and open their mindset. You know, think of it as
like you're gathering information and that way you don't have
to be reactive in the moment. You can actually react
or respond down the line with some other, you know,
in a different way or on a different subject matter,

(36:47):
but knowing the kind of kids' parents you're dealing with.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
I have one other tool for you, which is something
I talk about in my book, So I hope you
can check that out. Yea, there's this one kind of
idea I learned earlier in my career with people who
didn't agree with me, and I figured out that if
I tried to enter the conversation trying to change their mind,
trying to change their perspective, trying to just say you're wrong,
I'd get nowhere right. And similarly, if somebody tries to

(37:11):
enter a conversation with me and their whole goal is
to say that I'm wrong, I don't really want to
have that conversation. If I instead enter the conversation trying
to add perspective instead of trying to change it, so
again it's adding perspective instead of changing it, then I'm
actually more likely to be successful because my goal in
that conversation is to get the other person to walk
away thinking, gosh, I hadn't actually considered that before, and

(37:31):
now that I've considered this, maybe maybe that influences my conclusion.
Instead of coming to the conversation being like, this person
thinks I'm wrong and I'm right, and you're wrong, and
I'm right and you're wrong. That's not a conversation. That's
a confrontation. You said you didn't like confrontation. Here's a
way to shift it instead of trying to change their mind.
What can you give them that might be additive? Right?
How can you widen their perspective and say, oh, there's

(37:52):
also this thing over here that you hadn't considered. Does
that help your consideration of your conclusion. I'm not giving
you the conclusion. I'm just giving you a fact you
might have missed.

Speaker 7 (38:01):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Love that I do too. I'm really impressed with you.
If you're really Smartana Margulis, you better watch up? Okay,
I mean you better, sorry, watch up? You better wash
up and watch out. Okay, there's a new sheriff in town, Juliana.
I know she's listening. I think that's great advice. And I'm,
you know, even more excited that I wasn't the one
to give it. So there you go, Sloan.

Speaker 7 (38:24):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, well, thank you for being a teacher and doing
it in Florida. You're doing the Lord's work.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Basically, Florida.

Speaker 7 (38:33):
It's interesting, that's for sure. Never a dull moment.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Just yeah, think of it as a nice big challenge. Yep, definitely,
and also make sure, I just want to double back
on something Skyler said, is like that community, which I'm
sure you have. You seem like you have your own
thing going on privately is so important so that you
are able to be around people who are like minded
and have the same you know, value system.

Speaker 7 (38:55):
My tribe saves me for sure.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, okay, thank you so much. But that's the kind
of teacher I always wanted somebody nice and young, right right.
My teachers were always like eighty, well they weren't. Those
are more congressmen and senators. But my teachers were always older.
They were never young. You know, not that it matters,
but you know, I guess.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Well, sometimes it's nice to have people who can relate
to you.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, like a little. It's just so much more energy sometimes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, Well, our next color is CJ.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
CJ uses the them pronouns. CJ's email starts help me
see and see advice Factory, which I thought was clever.
Dear Chelsea I'm forty five, recently diagnosed autistic, live in
NYC and single for twenty years. I identify as transfemme
non binary and started my physical transition about a year ago.

(39:50):
In twenty twenty one, I met a man on OkCupid.
From his profile, I thought he was a handsome af
s's single guy. During our first conversation, he revealed that
not only was he an open marriage, but he's also trans.
Even though I wasn't looking for a hookup, we met
for coffee, figuring it would be great to have a
good trans friend for me. It was love at first sight,
and it's been difficult for me to think about anyone

(40:10):
else since that moment. Flash forward. He's now in the
process of his divorce. I helped him get out of
NYC to find his dream job of working on a
farm in North Carolina. During that time, we became extremely close,
regular hangouts and sleepovers, but no hookups. Although he knew
of my feelings, he insisted he didn't see me as
anything but a friend. A few months ago, our entire

(40:32):
dynamic shifted. We had a long, frank discussion and he
opened up emotionally in a way he never had before.
As strong as my feelings were before, my entire heart
is open to him now, and seemingly I'm happy to
report his is to me because these feelings are impossibly
rare for me. I'm having a hard time with my
insecurity and self doubt, worrying about absolutely everything. He's twelve

(40:55):
years younger and far more attractive than me. He lives
in another state. I'd love to move to be with him,
but I'm in a long term NYC rental paying just
eleven hundred dollars a month, so if I give it up,
it has to be the real deal. He's only just
realized his feelings for me, whereas I've been struggling for
almost two years with mine for him, what if his
aren't real. I don't date frivolously, and although I've had

(41:17):
a lot of first dates and four times as many
sex partners, my heart is alive for the first time
in two decades, when I had resigned myself to being
alone forever. I'm equally excited and hopeful and nervous as fuck.
Help me, Chelsea, You're my only hope.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Cee J Hi, Honey, Hi, cj.

Speaker 6 (41:33):
Hi, Hey, everybody, thank you so much for having me
on I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Oh, thanks for coming on, and you're visiting your fellow
right now.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
Right, I'm in North Carolina right now, he's right outside.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Should we get him on? Should we get him on
and just ask him what his intentions are.

Speaker 6 (41:51):
I actually asked him and he was like, I can't
talk to Chelsea. I'm so scared. No, I can't. I
can't to do it. So not an option.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well send our love.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
So how long? What's the duration of time that you
guys have now been together? Are you together now? Yes?

Speaker 6 (42:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're we're officially together. It's been at
this point. Officially it's been about four or five months.
But like I said, we've known each other and had
this sort of like weirdness for probably the last two years.
They're very close friends.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Well, this sounds like a love story.

Speaker 6 (42:21):
My big thing is like he's ready when I come
down here. I'll spend probably two to three weeks at
this point with no issue, you know, no fighting, no,
we just get along and it it all seems so
easy and simple, which is the weirdest thing for me
because it's never been easy or simple. And he's sort

(42:43):
of ready for me. He's like, why don't you just
come down here? Why are you still in New York City?
My big thing is I've been in New York City
for twenty seven years now. I've been in the same
apartment for twenty years. My rent is eleven hundred dollars.
So if I leave New York City, it's got to
be for It's got to be for good, Like it's

(43:04):
got to be for keeps. And I just don't know
that I'm ready to do that yet.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
I have a thought, well, I have a couple of thoughts,
Like there's a practical side of my brain, and then
there's like the part of me that loves love stories,
part of my brain which is going to lead the charge.
One of the thoughts I'm having is that a lot
of trans people in my experience are resistant to ease.
And the reason is because we're so not used to
it right when we when we experience it, we're like, wait,

(43:29):
this isn't it like that? We can't I can't have this,
I don't deserve this. I'm not ready for this. What
if it breaks right? What if it isn't what it
looks like? And I heard a lot of that through
your email and also as you were talking. And one
of my favorite quotes from a friend of mine who's
a black trans woman who's also an advocate. She's an artist,
she does a lot of amazing worker names Mi La
Jam And she said to me, her wish for the

(43:51):
world is to have transjoy be familiar, right, And I
think that you're unfamiliar with transjoy. I don't know you
all that well, but I guess is that you're unfamiliar
with it because most of us are, and in that
we often will reject things that seem too good. So
I think that's like the love side of me and
like the wanting you to like dive into that transjoy

(44:12):
and just whatever joy you have and let yourself be
loved and let yourself love. And there's a practical side
of me that's like you also are allowed to be calculated,
but with how much risk you take, right, how much
risk you accept, because I think all relationships have the
potential to fail, regardless of how good or honest they are.
So instead of seeing it as like this is real

(44:32):
versus not because it sounds real and I don't know
if it's worth categorizing it as not, it's how much
how much risk do you want to like assign it?
Does that make sense? Like instead of real versus not,
it's like how much do I do I gamble on this?

Speaker 6 (44:45):
Right?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
You will always be able to find another apartment, maybe
not one for eleven hundred dollars, But is.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
There a scenario where you can go down there and
just keep your apartment here for six months or something?

Speaker 6 (44:56):
I like that idea as far as what I'm aware of,
And again I'm not al legal expert on this. From
what I've heard, there's like some law in New York
City where if you are away from your apartment four
greater than six months out of the year, they can
legally take it away from you.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
So let's just go back a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, I know that's who who cares? First of all,
you don't need to do it for six months necessarily,
Like you just want to go down there for a
good duration of time. It could be three months, and
then you could be like, yeah, I'm staying great. You
don't have to give up your apartment to go experience this,
especially when you're paying eleven hundred dollars a month. If
you can afford to pay that, just keep your apartment.
Who cares about the laws or the rules. You guys

(45:32):
can come to New York for a weekend. I mean,
you know, it's going to take a long time for
someone to prove that you haven't been in your apartment
for six months. And that person has nothing else going on.

Speaker 6 (45:41):
Also, and the good news is he lives rent free
because of his jobs.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
So this is perfect. I don't know what the problem is.
I really don't. I think you need to go down there,
dive in. This is a love story. I'll be the
romantic one in this situation and fucking go for it.
Hold onto your apartment and that way you're and don't
hang it over your partner's head. You know, don't be
like I can go home any time I want. Don't
be like that person. But I think what you just said,

(46:08):
what Skyler just said about trans joy, you said it
yourself like it's too easy. Well maybe that's the way
it's supposed to be. Haven't you had enough to deal
with I mean, come on, maybe you're being rewarded, you know,
maybe this is your golden ticket and this is your
life of ease and with somebody that sees you and
loves you and that you feel the same way about
I don't think there's a lot of risk involved in this,

(46:29):
you know, I think you might just be creating, you know,
like little hurdles because that might be your pattern and
that might be what you're used to.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
Yeah, I think because we're both in therapy, you know,
we don't obviously tell each other exactly what we tell
our therapists and everything that our therapists tells us as well.
But my therapist has been like, go towards the joy.
If you're feeling joy about something, go towards it. If
it's not hurting anybody, go towards that joy. Stop second
guessing everything that's going on because it's it seems crazy.

(47:01):
Just really go with it. The one thing that he
and I said to each other very early on is
we've never felt this safe with somebody before, both mentally, physically, everything.
It just feels safe to be ourselves, share our thoughts,
share our feelings, and that's just the most powerful thing

(47:22):
that I've ever experienced in my life.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
I think you're writing your answer for us.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
You have your answer, you just needed confirmation and also
focusing on the joy. That is something you should write
down and remember because when you do focus, whatever you're
going to focus on becomes greater and bigger. So if
you're going to focus on all of the things that
may or may not be wrong, then that's what becomes bigger.
But when you allow yourself to be in a joyful

(47:49):
place to enjoy this love, to enjoy the joy, that
is the word of the year's joy. Joyfulness. How much
joyfulness you're going to bring to people because you're experiencing joy.
Focus on that what you just said, because that's powerful
and your whole life can continue to be that way
when you have that as the baseline.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
That sounds amazing. I feel like this is all coming together.
I work from home, so that's why I'm able to
come down here as much as I want and just
work from here. And it's yeah, as usual, everything you
said is spot on. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I think also like the feelings that you've got of
like but what if it doesn't work? But what if
I regret it? But what you know, all the what ifs,
like you can also answer the what ifs. One of
the things that I always teach people and I try
to myself is if my brain is going what if,
what if? What if? What if? Answer it? What is
what is the answer? To the what if, what if
it doesn't work out? Well, you know very well how
to be on your own. You know how to take
care of yourself in this in this like plan of

(48:44):
keeping your apartment, you'll go back to your apartment. Right,
You'll be able to figure it out because you're a
grown adult that has a lot of great coping mechanisms. Clearly, right,
So like answer the what if it's gonna be okay,
you're gonna be okay. Well, it be sad, sure, but
I think it's also worthwhile to be like, I actually
have the tools to figure out how to move forwards
if this doesn't work, And so why not go full
into this because otherwise anxiety is going to be dragging

(49:06):
you the whole time. So have anxiety sit there, answer
anxiety's questions and be like, look, anxiety, I have got
it right. I'm gonna be fine, and you're gonna be
here advising me along the way. And I'm not gonna
yell at you because I'm not going to belittle myself,
but I am going to say you're here, I've got you,
I answered your questions. Let's go.

Speaker 6 (49:23):
Yeah, that's been the biggest thing, is like separating what's
anxiety and what's logic? Like, is this logically an issue
or is this just my anxiety giving me shit? And
I just you know, you can go away logic. Let's
deal with logic and see if I can figure a
way around the logic.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Well, everything is pointing for you to move there, so
just do it and hold on to your apartment for
as long as you need to to make you feel okay,
and then you can give it up or maybe I'll
rent it from you.

Speaker 6 (49:49):
You're welcome to move in. It's fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I've been dying to move to New York.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
You can sublet it, you know, there's there's lots of solutions.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, who wouldn't want me as a tenant?

Speaker 4 (49:59):
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Okay, you have your marching orders. Go be happy.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Yeah, I'll do that.

Speaker 6 (50:06):
Absolutely, have a great day, everybody.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Thank you you too.

Speaker 7 (50:09):
Bye.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
I love them.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I love a love story.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I know I'm like the person you've loved for two years.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
I mean, I don't know statistically what there is, but
there is some sort of data that backs up if
you know somebody for a period of time and then
become romantically involved with them, there's a greater chance of success.
I'm sure there's that relationship you have, the years long
friendship with somebody. Those things are those relationships usually tend
to work out.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, let's take a quick break and we'll be right
back to wrap up with Skyler and Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Great, and we're back.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
We are back with Skyler Baylor, and our last question
comes from Angela. Angela says, Dear Chelsea, I recently married
my husband, who happens to be one of the most
incredible humans on earth. My problem is this, we met
through our soccer community. Both of us love the sport
and played at the collegiate level. While I'm ready to

(51:05):
hang up the cleats, he isn't. He plays in three
major men's tournaments a year, and those all take us
out of state for four days at a time. I
do love watching him play, and I enjoy the trips,
But because he owns his own business, anytime he takes
off is unpaid, and because of that, the only trips
we take together are for his soccer tournaments. How do

(51:26):
I continue to enjoy watching his games and traveling for
his tournaments when we don't take any trips just the
two of us. How do I get him to understand
that I need a trip with my husband, no soccer
schedule to abide by, no other friends around, without making
it seem like those tournaments are out the window. You're
the best, Angela on Skyler. I mean, you're the sports guy.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
I'm just gonna give this podcast to Skyler and let
him deal with all of this because he's got better
answers than I do. Skyler, why don't you go first?

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Yeah, that's it. So in my relationship, I'm like this
person's husband and that I'm always busy. I'm self employed
and large a lot of the travel that me and
my partner do are because of the work that I do,
and time that I take off is often for work
and difficult to find time for us to do things
on our own. It's actually been this is me disclosing
a lot about my life, but it's been a big

(52:15):
endeavor for me in the past like several years to
figure out how to shift so that I can both
make money right, which is important for me to live
and for me and my partner to have our life,
but it's also really important for me to take time
for just me and just me and my partner, and
it's hard so I want to first validate that it's hard,
and it sounds like Angela really understands that. I think
that the conversations that me and my partner had about

(52:37):
this have been really powerful of her saying like, you
need to find time for you, which does mean finding
time for us together. And I've had to carve that out.
And I don't know if this is like advice or
if this is just like me relating and trying to
provide some similarities here, but for me, I really had
to decide, like what kind of life do I want
to live? Do I want to live a life where
I'm constantly saying, well, when I have time, will do

(52:58):
the thing when I have time, will go out to dinner.
When I have time, we'll take a trip to wherever
we take a trip to right, Or do I want
to live a life where like I'm actively doing the
things that I want to do in my life. And
I decided that I want the latter. I don't want
to be constantly saying when I'm not busy, you know,
next year, when the book is done, when whatever. And
I have lived my life like that for probably more

(53:19):
than a decade as an elite level athlete. As you know,
I gave one hundred and two speeches before I graduated from
college from Harvard. So I was doing a lot of things,
and I've always done a lot of things, and my
wife has said, but what about you?

Speaker 6 (53:29):
Right?

Speaker 4 (53:29):
What about your life and what you enjoy? And so
now we actively have to look at the calendar and
say where can I put in time? That's just us
and that does mean also budgeting appropriately, It means carving
out the time. But most importantly, and this is where
I think the advice comes into Angela, it actually requires
both people being really committed to doing that. And I
will disclose again my wife has had frustrations with me

(53:52):
where she said, you aren't as committed to this as
I am. Right, you aren't making the space and the
time to do these things. And when she said that,
it really hit me because I was like, wait, no,
that's not My priorities aren't actually what my actions are declaring.
So I have to figure out how to adjust my
actions so that they align with my declared priorities, which
does involve my own joy and my partner together, right.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Yeah, and creating joy and compromise. Yeah, obviously there's sacrifices
to be made in all relationships, and it's about you know,
you going the only time you and your partner going
on vacation together for his soccer games. Doesn't sound like
a compromise on his behalf, you know. It sounds like
you're just you know.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
Whatever, she's along for the ride.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Yeah, so he's going to have to meet you somewhere
like halfway in the middle, and you guys have to
figure out a system where you're getting your needs met
and he can still play soccer, but maybe not four times,
you know, not four games or however frequent. You know,
a weekend that's just too that's not fair to you
at all.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
So I went through something similar when Brad and I
were first dating. After we've been dating about a year,
you know, he was playing music every weekend, and so
all of his evenings and weekends and holidays were spent working.
And I was finding that, like I was left without
a date to every wedding and every everything. And so

(55:08):
we sort of worked at a deal where like I
got three days a year that I could ask him
to cancel work, and you know, obviously wouldn't be getting
paid for that time, but he would accompany me to
the event of my choosing, and so maybe there's something
similar for you guys. Maybe it's okay for every two
days we spend on a soccer trip, I get one
day of vacation with you, and those accumulate over time.

(55:31):
You might make a little game out of it.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
People's interests also change and develop over time, and the
whole idea of being in a couple is to grow
together and to evolve together. You don't stay the same forever,
and so it's about what you're willing to do in
terms of compromise and sacrifice, and that has to be
part of the equation in our relationship.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
I think it's also about, you know, asking him what
his priorities are and do they align with yours. I mean,
I think like that some of the most difficult conversations
they're not actually about the actions, right. People don't get
into fights because a specific action is a problem. It's
a repeated issue or it's a repeated tension because there's
something underlying that. And so you know, in my life

(56:12):
that's in my current relationship, it's been that my actions
weren't aligned with my declared priorities of I want to
spend time with you, but then I'm not actually making time.
And so when I realize that, I've been like, Okay,
let me shift right my actions so they align. But
if somebody is not willing to make that shift so
that your priorities can be somewhat in alignment, then that's
a big that's a big problem. And I think it
would be about really asking Angela's husband, you know, are

(56:35):
you willing to make these adjustments so that we can
be here together? And Angela, are you willing to actually
share what the feelings are that you're having, because a
lot of people will come to these conversations being like,
you aren't doing enough for me. You know you don't.
You don't make time for us to go on trips,
and you are playing too much soccer. Instead of saying
I feel neglected. I don't feel like I have enough
time with you. I would like to go to Phoenix

(56:55):
or to I don't know that's where I want to
go clearly, but wherever you would like to go, right,
Can you say what you want? Because maybe there are
other ways that you know you two could meet those
needs together that that would be a collaborative effort.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, I love that I love that you've given such
good advice today. I mean, honestly, it's really impressive. I
guess I'm really missing out on a Harvard education because
you're just I mean, you're just great at giving information.
And also it's very empathetic. Everything you've said, you know,
and you look at it from like two different angles.
I like the way that you think and address things.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
So I appreciate having you here today. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
I appreciate you having.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
And I'm going to see you in Boston at one
of my shows.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Yes, I would love you up with some tickets.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Catherine, we'll handle that, Yes, please sure, so I can
meet your wife.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
And this was a great episode. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Thank you for your time, Thank you for all the
work you do.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Amen. Amen, everyone, that's how we're going to end this
from now on. Amen. Okay. Second shows have been added
for those of you coming to see my new stand
up tour, which you have to come because I'm having
the best time. We added a second show in Cincinnati
daytime at five o'clock PM. I'm doing my first show
because I don't have a night where I can go back,

(58:06):
so we added a second show at five PM, and
the original show is at APM. Original show is sold out.
Second show tickets are available Cincinnati. I'm also coming to Chicago,
the Chicago Theater, Portland, Oregon, San Francisco. They're both almost
completely sold out and you can go to Chelsea Hamler
dot com for other tickets and other information And if
you want to buy some of our merch, that's all

(58:27):
available on Chelseahandler dot com. And yeah, guys, I'll see
you on the road.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com