September 12, 2019 • 51 mins
Chelsea is joined by Jenny Mollen Biggs and Dan Maurio for an update on their experience taking Ayahuasca for Chelsea’s Netflix Series.
Credits:
Host: Chelsea Handler
Guests: Jenny Mollen Biggs and Dan Maurio
Executive Producer: Conal Byrne
Producers: Sophie Lichterman, Jack O’Brien
Writers: Jamie Loftus, Anna Hossnieh & Sophie Lichterman
Consulting Producers: Nick Stumpf, Miles Gray, & Anna Hossnieh
This episode was Engineered, Mixed & Edited by: Danl Goodman
Music by: Kingsbury
Order: "Life Will Be the Death of Me"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the
Death of Me? A production of I Heart Radio. Good Morning, Brandon,
Good morning. What day is it? And well today, it's
going to be Thursday when people hear this, or it
might be the day after or the day after that.
Well a little inside knowledge. We record this on Monday. Okay, okay,
today's Monday. How is your weekend? I saw you over
(00:22):
the weekend. Actually I saw you a lot over the weekend.
You were at my house a lot Saturday and Sunday.
I was nice. That was nice. Thank you came up.
And I had a little pool party on Saturday for
some friends and their kids, because every once in a
while I like to have kids at my house just
to remind myself that they shouldn't be there. And then
you came and cleaned up Sunday morning, and that was
really nice of you. And I don't know if you noticed,
(00:43):
but I cleaned up the dog shit on Sunday morning.
Actually got pretty good condition when I got there. I
only went because you had a guest day, so I
wanted to make sure that everything was the up and up,
that we made a good impression. There were no drugs
out or anything like that. And there were after kids
being there. I thought for sure there would be yeah,
and there were not. They were not everybody of themselves
that day at the pool, it was like unlike any
other day. Joining us today in studio are Dan Morio
(01:06):
and Jenny Molin, my two friends, my two very dear
friends who came with me to Peru to do ayahuasca
from my Netflix special Chelsea Does Drugs a few years ago.
So we are reuniting in studio to discuss the effects,
the experience and the after effects. So for those of
you who are not familiar with ayahuasca, it is a
(01:26):
plant that is grown in Peru that is used as
a hallucinogenic. I wouldn't would you describe it as a psychedelic.
It is a psychedelic, I believe Dan, I don't know. Okay. Anyway,
that's the information we have on ayahuasca. Brandon, you were
not in my life at this point. No, this is
right before me. Right. But now that I've done ayahuasca,
(01:48):
you probably because when you met me, you didn't drink
or smoke weed. Correct, And now look at you, lean
and hard, right, and how do you feel about your
life since you started imbibing, and you know, I feel good.
I think that everyone should experience something like you. You
actually say in the documentary that you want to know
what everything feels like, like there's nothing you don't want
to try. And I've tried to take more of that on,
(02:09):
even in little things like something that I would have
said no to trying food related before, Like we went
and had oysters, which never interested me, and you're like,
you just have to do it. What's the worst that's
gonna happen. That's kind of what I've taken on. Well,
that's good. And also I think that you have a
lot of people have are under the assumption that if
you are partaking in alcohol or you know, cannabis used, especially,
(02:29):
there's a stereotype that you can't get ship done or
that you're lazy, and that is not true. Either. You
can get things done. I am I'm inherently lazy anyway,
but I still get things done on cannabis. You're the
highest functioning cannabis user I've ever encountered to that. One second,
let me have a drink of this tea. Well, thank you, Brendon,
and I'm glad that you started imbibing because you were
(02:52):
wound very tight, and I would say that you've loosened
up a lot. I think it's really helped, except for
the other day. I did take a two point five
millionary am mint at the house when I was feeling
a little anxious. And then what were you feeling anxious about?
I don't know, it's just early morning. I got there
and I just knew I felt wound high, and I
was like, you know what, just take this, it's two
point five it's just going to take the edge off.
(03:12):
And then I came home three hours later and he
had his shoes off, feed up on the table, had
a bunch of books and snacks around him. Well, not books,
snacks and paperwork, I guess. I was still trying to work, yeah,
but lounging. And so I didn't want to disturb him.
So I went up to my room and hid there
until he was done relaxing. But I had to admittantly
tell you what had happened. Yes, you did tell me
(03:33):
that you were high, and I said, good for you,
Good for you. What a workplace? Okay, So hi guys,
how are you Hi? Hi? Jenny from New York and
Danny from Jenny from the block and Danny from the Valley. Hi,
Hi guys, it's nice to reunite. The three of us
haven't actually been together since we did the Iowa or no,
we did an episode of the Netflix show right after
(03:54):
post ayahuasca. Maybe no, don't think that did. We did
it okay, and we just parted ways and decided that
we were never going to speak again. And then three
of us were never going to be in the same place.
And actually Jenny, actually Jenny has putting me up in
her apartment and not even bother to hang out with
me while that was happening. Was she in the city.
I went to the city and she's like, stay at
(04:16):
my apartment, and then I stayed at her house in Spain. Yeah,
she stayed at my house in Spain, where I also
didn't see her. I think that's how she rolls. I
think she just wants to pass like ships in the night,
so make you think you're still in a friendship but
never actually seeing each other, which is what's happening right
now because you're you're in New York and we're in
l A. She's doing it again. So we're talking about
(04:37):
ayahuasca today, and I think it's a good time to
check in. How many years has it been since our
experience together? Has it been? I think it's been longer
than more, because I been four years. Okay, so it's
been four years and none of us have done it since,
and you guys, I think we all it had an
impact on all three of us. Let's talk about how
long each person's trip was, because line, the first night
(05:01):
was kind of interrupted by by you guys, which I
was happy to have it interrupted. But you guys, would
you say it was like an hour? Two hours? I
feel like when I settled in it took about fifteen
minutes for it to begin, and that the trip itself
was a few minutes only, No, it wasn't a few minutes. Like, well,
(05:24):
you're laying there for much longer than that. I think
you mean lying. I think you mean lying there. Oh,
please lying there for Maybe you're probably lying there for
thirty minutes or laying there And yeah, I think there
was only the story that I told less than five minutes.
(05:46):
Oh that's interesting, I don't. I feel like it lasted
a lifetime, and yet in real time it was probably
I would say an hour and a half two hours.
Now does start to finish? Is that you're drinking the
cup of whatever you drank. So yeah, I feel like
you drinking. You're instantly in it. I mean maybe five
(06:08):
minutes tops. Yeah, and Dan went down before any of us.
You guys, Dan, it was like two minutes. And and
he's so thin that his body just like it took
over it almost. Yeah, it almost discombobulated right there in
front of us. That's what I was scared. That's appropriate.
That word. It makes no sense in that content. Discombbulated. Yes, sorry, sorry,
you're right, I stand corrected. At least I'm not laying
bricks over there while I'm lying down. So as soon
(06:31):
as the trip has done, you feel normal again, completely normal.
I mean you feel enlightened, but you feel completely sober
and you also the great thing is you remember everything,
and we still remember everything that's in years, like you
remember the scenes. And it's not like a drug where
sometimes it's blurry or alcohol, which can you know, make
you not remember this. You remember everything, which is an advantage,
(06:53):
and that's why I think it can be so therapeutic
because you are remembering everything and there's no come down. No,
you're zero come down. It's not like that. So it
almost felt like you're like, I have never been hypnotized.
But you know when you see people and you know
the whoever it is, the magician or the therapists snapped
their fingers and the person is fine. That's what it
(07:16):
felt like. When he said the trip's over, I looked.
I turned to Chelsea was like, I guess it's over.
It wasn't. It didn't take anything. It's a really weird
feature of that drug that you're if mushrooms is like
augmented reality, ayahuasca is like virtual reality and you're in
total control. It's like you're immersed in something it is.
(07:40):
That's so true. Yeah, and there's nothing physiological other than
being sick to your stomach in a forest. There's nothing
like physiologically going on. You can just after you've laid
down and you're meditating. Your focus is a big part
of it. I think you mean after you lay down,
(08:02):
because you're not a chicken, are you? Do you lay eggs?
Why don't you tell us a little bit about your
experience then and how you look at it now. So
when you asked me to do it, I was in
the middle of finishing my book that was sort of
about my journey through motherhood, and I felt like, oh
(08:23):
my god, this is a perfect opportunity to chase the story,
to go on this adventure, to try something that is
a little maybe outside of the box. But I don't know.
I had spoken to my therapist and she's like, I
think it would be good for you. You're struggling with
figuring out who you are as a mother and your
(08:44):
new identity, and maybe ayahuasca is actually a good idea.
So when when I ran that past Jason, at first
he flipped out, but then eventually, like all of my
you know, crazy hair brained ideas, I got him on board.
And yeah, it was scary. That night was terrifying because
(09:05):
of our surroundings were scary also, like we were in
the woods in a lodge, and lodge is a generous
term for where we stayed. It was more like a
hut that served food, and we were and it was
really dark, and you know that there are lots of
critters and snakes in Peru on the Amazon. We were
right off of the Amazon Um, so it was a scary.
(09:27):
And then we had to walk up to that tented
therapy room or journey room or whatever the hell they
called it. What did they call that? I don't remember,
doesn't I don't know. It was some sort of like your, yeah, your,
it was a your with toilets, but you know toilets.
I mean, you guys found the toilets. I didn't, luckily
never had to go there. Oh yeah, I spent quite
a lot of time in the toilet. And what was
(09:48):
your overwhelming feeling? How would you describe it? Well? I
remember when he was passing around the cup, and at
first I was like, oh, dude, you're giving me way
too much. I mean, like this is too I think
I'm going to have two intense of a trip if
I drink this whole cup. But you know, he was
the shaman, was somebody that we couldn't really communicate with,
so I guess I just sort of went with it,
(10:11):
and luckily Dan ended up kind of going into like
a deeper, more like gnarly kind of dark place than
I did. At first, it was like that feeling of
like you're on ecstasy mixed with like maybe you're a
little buzzed, so you feel very dizzy. And then all
of a sudden, I found myself in my childhood home
of the house that I I didn't even know I remembered.
(10:33):
I mean, this was like lifetimes ago, it feels like.
And I started sort of having these experiences that I
guess I had lived before, but just in a different way.
And it almost felt like I was on like a
Spotify account where I could just like click to change
the image or click, you know, click through songs, so
I could like change the image. So if I didn't
(10:54):
love whatever I was feeling, I felt in control enough
to be able to kind of like flip over to
a different vision. And then I saw Sid and at
the time, so it wasn't speaking, so Sid was probably
not a year old or or had just turned a year,
but in my vision, he was speaking to me and
(11:15):
I and I sort of got this piece that I
needed where he looked at me and he's like, you're
already enough, Like you don't have to prove to me
that you are good enough to be my mom. You
already are just by being my mom. You are enough
for me. And that is what like just sent me
into hysterics. Yeah, and that would I couldn't handle it,
(11:39):
I thought. And my dog recently died, so you know,
I going into what I was expecting. Oh my God,
I'm gonna have this like huge traumatic encounter with you know,
the ghost of my dog or you know. But it
was nothing about my dog. It was all about my childhood.
And it really came full circle with with seeing my son.
I wonder if I did it now, if Bert would
(11:59):
come to me in a vision and say, I feel
I don't know, Yeah, I probably would. But then Jason
came into it, right, Jason wasn't as big of a part. No,
but I did love In your book when you're like,
I think Jenny was terrified because she realized how much
she loved her husband. Well you did, because remember you
came out of it. You're like, I have to call Jason.
(12:20):
Have to call Jason. I'm like, are you going to
tell him everything? You felt? Like? Definitely not No, definitely,
no way, he can never know. It would give him
too much of an upper hand in our marriage. Yeah. No, no,
of course, don't tell him and he doesn't need to know. Yes, exactly.
And then no, I mean it was it was super
I opening, and I felt like I was a different
(12:40):
person afterwards. I mean, I know that sounds ridiculous, but
I did feel as though I had had ten years
of therapy or had just like upped my zul off
to like three d milligrams. I mean I was in
a very good place, and I would say that lasted
for maybe like a good year year and a half,
and then happened and then I just send it into
(13:01):
darkness again. Really no, but but yeah, like I think
that it's a crazy therapeutic experience, and unfortunately, as human beings,
I think it's just hard to hold onto any anything.
So I, you know, maybe I just need to do
it again, is what I'm saying. We've talked about doing
it again. Are you looking into it? Seriously? I would
(13:23):
totally do it again. I just need to make sure
that with my thyroid it's okay. Now I have a
hyper thyroid, so I have to And what about your
antidepressants because a lot of people say you're not supposed
to do it if because you didn't you go off
your you didn't do it. Was off meds for yeah,
for like seven years I was off meds and then
I recently got back on. But I would if we
(13:44):
decided to do this, I would get off. I mean,
I'm on a such a low dose that it's not
like a major deal. I've only been on it for
like a month, so we could also get a bunch
of people do it and do it right here in California,
you know, right, and like you can do that, right,
I mean yeah, because yeah, And I have a ton
of friends that are always interested in doing it, and
I'm interested in doing it now that I've had therapy
(14:05):
and my head's in a different place, Like I now
would like to see what I would get out of it,
because I bet I could go a lot deeper than
I was able to them. Well, it was a compromised atmosphere.
I mean the light wasn't there was too much light,
and there was a camera crew right when there was
too much light from the camera crew, right right, Okay,
I'm just connects, just connecting a little dots. Yeah. I
(14:27):
would be interested in doing it again without it being documented.
Oh yeah, yeah, I would be interested in doing it
again without it being documented, and also in documenting it again.
I like to do this. Yeah, me too, I feel safer.
I do too. I do too, Brandon, would you want
to be chaperone to doing it? From hearing Jenny's after
watching it, No, nothing about it interests me. Okay, Dan,
(14:50):
let's you see it really partly because I just Dan
laying on his map. I just have such this like
image that is resonating of him being so dizzy and
feeling sick and I hate throwing up more than anything.
And him saying I would not wish this on my
worst enemy is not exactly you know, the accolade I'm
looking for when trying a drug, like that's not a
(15:10):
seal of approval for me. And diarrhea like crazy didn't dihea,
It's been a fun right the diarrhea, well, I you know, listen,
I went into that ceremony thinking I'm going to sweat,
probably ship my pants and vomit and probably be thin.
And I remember gaining six or seven pounds on that trip.
Only I can go somewhere where to a sweat lodge,
(15:33):
have diarrhea, vomit, and put on weight. Okay for the record, Chelsea,
at first she walked into this journey, She's like, I'm
not drinking, I'm eating clean, I'm not like all of
the basically the this list that she brought up, things
that she had to adhere or two before doing the drug.
After it didn't work. The first time she goes in,
she's like eating Oreos. She's like, fuck it, We're okay,
(15:55):
give me a vodka. All right, I'm gonna do it again.
So at that point, yeah, I think I had to
gay did the effects of it by drinking the first
night because I was like, oh, this doesn't work, I'll
just have something. I guess I'm gonna have to get
a buzz a different way. Dan, Let's talk about your experiencing,
your initial reaction. What you remember feeling and immediately same
thing that Jenny mentioned with there's a sense of agency
(16:18):
that's bizarre. I had the same thing childhood home. It
was like I was like floating through space and then
spat out into my childhood home backyard, and I remember,
you're aware of everything as you go. Like Jenny was saying,
spotify my list, you have this rich detail. I remember
(16:41):
thinking I could go and oh that's what the back
door of my childhood home was like. I haven't thought
about this in years. And I walked into my child
at home and I was like, oh, there's the trees
to play in avalon um walked into my kitchen. Haven't
thought of this and forever rich detail I'm gonna go to.
I made a decision to go to my childhood bedroom,
(17:02):
walked down the hallway, I saw all my old toys, shelves, everything,
went over, made a decision to go look at where
my old toys were. And then when I turned around,
it was me as a child sitting on the bed.
That was like the price of Admission moment where because
(17:23):
there was this thing of like, oh, this is all
too good to be true. I think I said it.
I think it made the cut where I was like,
what this drug promises, something revelatory, something that will change
you a little bit. I said, it seems too good
to be true. And then in my trip or whatever
you wanna call it, when I turned around and saw
(17:43):
myself sitting on the bed as a child, I was like, Oh,
that's that's something else. That's this has to be deep,
even if I can't unpack it in the moment. And
then there was like a time at it and I
was holding myself, which is amazing, and I was like, oh,
that's definitely loaded. I had this phrase come to my head.
(18:07):
You are your own father, you have to be a
good father. It was something like that, which is a
real kind of like that was the deep sort of
takeaway from the thing. It was sort of a slow burn,
heavy kind of visual and phrase that and were you
able to change channels like Jenny talked about, Yeah, there
(18:28):
was that that sense of I would say, that's one
of the defining characteristics of that drug, is you it's
meditative because you're supposed to follow the shaman's singing or
whatever he's chanting. It was hard to follow that though,
because he was also defecating well while he was chanting,
and he was sitting into our hair and like beating
(18:50):
us over the head with like leaves. I liked that part.
I have to say, I do like getting hit with leaves.
Ostensibly he's he's the leader, but like I didn't respect
him anybody anybody who like smoking. Smoking is a bad idea,
and like I can't like, if you're going to smoke,
(19:12):
you're gonna smoke in a rainforest. That seems like a
ridiculous idea. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and
we'll be right back. As a spectator, having rewatched this
last night, I did not get anything from what you
just said. Dan, like your experience. It seemed horrible because
you're saying when you're sitting there, you just say, like
I'm having like deep dark thoughts, like you seeing yourself
(19:35):
as a child. That seems nice, that seems like maybe
I do want to try this drug. But what we
saw on the edit was not that at all. It
was like, absolutely, under no circumstance would your experience make
someone want to try it? Right? So, did I think
a turn at a certain Well no, I think I mean,
as far as the narrative goes, it had to focus
on Chelsea. So I think I talked about my trip
(19:56):
on camera, but they probably just couldn't fit it in.
She had to be the focus, like it was probably
just funny to like put in you sound resentful. Well,
I finally I could get this story out. The people
want to know that, we want to know. I can't
wait to be able to refer people to this to
get the real as. A follow up documentary coming out
(20:16):
is offshoot documentary called Dan Does Drugs. Well now that
it's been a few years, because I think Chelsea said before, well,
you just said now that you would try it again.
But I think before you said that you're not really interested.
I wasn't because I don't like the vomiting or the
shifting aspect. And luckily I didn't have to go to
the bathroom, and I didn't should be but I did vomit.
But it was in and out, like you guys were
(20:37):
in the bathroom, in and out. I don't know if
you were vomiting. I'll tell you what happened when I
went to the bathroom. Okay, well, let's start with I
think I was the first to get up and go
and overwhelmingly sick to my stomach. I didn't want to
throw up on camera. Went over to this stall in
this hut, and every single inch of the surface us
(21:00):
of this bathroom, toilet, walls, everything was covered with with bugs.
It was yes, it was so and I thought about
like I was like beetles everywhere. I thought about my home.
I thought about my home and like you know, we
(21:21):
were I was just thinking about you. I was like,
I hate you so like why do I Like? There
was a lot of heavy anger directed towards me. I
could feel it. I was like, oh, I better get
out of the way. He's looking straight at me with
like the devil in his eyes because he was looking
at me, and I was a reflection of the devil
to you at that point. And then it passed. It did,
(21:41):
I didn't throw up. I went and laid back down
and and then that's when my trip started, was when
this wave of sickness passed, I could lay down and
start focusing. And that's when I was like I was
floating through space in this trippy kind of way. Yeah,
I think that you know it's different way you do
it right away because it has to sink in. I
(22:02):
like the perspective. I like having so many years to
reflect upon it because it's changed over time. And I
definitely have to say to what you said, Jenny, that
you thought your behavior changed for about a year, like
it changed my relationship with my sister Shanna forever, because
after that, I just like I had a completely different
attitude towards her, and and I haven't, I mean even
(22:26):
now to this day. I mean, we just were in
Martha's vineyard a couple of weeks ago and she was
texting me like she can do, like asking me kind
of the same question over and over and or we
were on the phone or something and I just went, Shanna,
you seriously just stopped. You're annoying me. And she's like, oh, sorry, okay,
and then we hung up, and then I called her back.
I'm like, I'm sorry, you're not annoying me. You can
keep asking me the question, like I have a thing
(22:47):
in my head now to always make sure she feels okay.
And because people who haven't seen the documentary, your visions
were tied closely to san Yeah, my visions were tied closely.
I mean I've spoken ad nauseum about my own ayahuasca experience,
So if you're listening to this podcast and you don't
know about it, it was about my sister and treating
her fairly well. The first night with you guys, I
(23:09):
didn't really get the experience because I guess I was
distracted by both of you and your what was happening
to you, And I felt obviously responsible, look pretty guilty.
I felt pretty bad about what was going down. So
I kind of I felt a couple of tingles starting
to happen in my feet when we were in that
big yard in the first night, and I was like, Okay,
(23:31):
it's happening, It's happening, And then you guys started moaning
and crying and bellowing, and I was like, holy shit,
I gotta get involved here. So that night wasn't the
night for me, but the next night, when I did
it alone with my boyfriend, the shaman who spends his
night shipping his pants in his cavalrici or true religion,
(23:51):
True Religion, they were jeans. The next night was exactly that.
It was the ability to see yourself as a child
outside of yourself. You're watching yourself as a kid, but
you're not, You're not the kid. You're just watching. And
it was all scenes that were true, that had happened
and played out like this kind of Phantasmagoria is the
(24:13):
word I'd like to use, because I think it best
describes it as just like a shuffling of scenes in
front of you. And and it was my sister and
I just laughter, like you know, it was just laughter
on the water and I could hear us. You know,
we would tip each other over in kayaks and we
would end up. I would always pee in my pants
when I was a little girl, and she would always laugh.
You know, my brothers and sisters would always egg me
(24:34):
on to do that. And it was just us running
down the beach holding hands and me pulling her, and
it was just a reminder like, oh, she and I
are sisters. We've been together longer than anyone else in
my life, and we held hands our entire childhood without
even thinking, and why am I sitting in such judgment
of her? Because she wants to live in New Jersey
(24:54):
and she's perfectly content raising kids and being a housewife.
Like I didn't get that and she and that was
like there was a voice saying, she is her you
or you, you're the one who wants the attention. She
doesn't want the attention. There's no reason to judge her.
And that was like, oh. And then the other thing
that happened right at the end, because I remember feeling
(25:14):
that and it was overwhelming and I had tears streaming
down my face because I was like, just felt so
much love for her, Like I was like, oh, be kind,
be gentle. She's not like you, and that's a good thing.
That's not a bad thing. You know, she's a different
person and you have to respect that. And then I
was overcome with you have too many people around you
all the time. It's okay to be alone. It's okay
(25:36):
to spend time alone. And I remember thinking, oh, fuck,
I don't want to deal with that, Like I don't
want to have to start to, you know, take a
real look at myself, which was probably the over you know,
bearing or overall message, the deeper message there, But at
that moment, I was like, no, I just got the
sister message. I'm going to focus on that. I don't
want to deal with spending more time alone or getting
(25:58):
rid of some people in my life or what ever
that meant for me at that time. And I remember thinking, really,
all I wanted to do was go downstairs and have
a drink with the crew and tell them just what happened,
which is exactly the opposite of the voice in my
head telling me to sit there and be alone and
be okay with being alone and without all the activity.
So now I think after the last two years of
(26:21):
all of this, the book and the therapy and all
of the stuff that I've learned from my psychiatrist, and
I think my brain is so much healthier, and I'm
I'm really curious now to see what would happen, and
I would definitely do it again. So how would you
guys go into it differently? Because there's also seen in
the documentary where you're all on the porch and you're
all scared, Like Chelsea says, no, I'm not scared, but
(26:43):
Jenny and Dan you were like speaking admittedly about that
you were nervous to go into it, and the shaman
at one point said, you can't go into this with fear.
And Chelsea you talk a lot about now, like setting
intentions for everything, like your day before, you meditate, whatever
you do. So now, having done the Ayahwaska, knowing kind
of the pain and yes that you're going to go through,
you kind of alleviated that one aspect of it. What
(27:06):
would your intention or thought be now going into it? Well,
I mean that's a good question to ask you to Jenny.
Did you feel like you prepared yourself in the right
way for it? Well, I just remember there were a
lot of like dietary adjustments, and I just I have
starvation anxiety. So I feel like I couldn't do it.
I mean, I know that you guys, you guys are
almost fasted that entire day, and maybe that is why
(27:28):
I was like shooting my brains out for most of
my trip, But I don't know that I could adhere
to There were just so many rigid rules. It was
like don't have sex, don't eat tomatoes. Don't you know
they're just like crazy? Yeah, because I guess it lessens
the impact, But I mean I would say that it
didn't lessen the impact for you actually know, how would
(27:50):
we know? I mean, how would we know what impact
it could? I mean I could have been Dan. I
mean maybe it was a good thing I had something, Yeah, exactly.
I mean they said you shouldn't drink for like three
weeks leading up to it. I think I didn't drink.
I didn't drink the night before like that, right, and
you weren't allowed to have certain foods because it doesn't
work as well. But Dan, when you look back at it,
do you think about it as a positive, Because then
(28:12):
Dan came out of it and said, Hey, I need
to get back to my family. My wife is pregnant.
What the funk am I doing here? So I think
you were really mad at yourself, and you were taking
out your anger on me because I had given you
the opportunity and you took it. Would you do it
differently now? I don't have regrets about going. I it
(28:33):
seemed like a truly adventurous thing to do, to go
to and Dan, your wife was like, if I weren't pregnant,
I'd be fucking all over this. So you have to go, Dan,
so you can't be too mad. Yeah, No, we both went.
I have no regrets about I would do it again.
I mean there was precedent, like we had. This was
Brooke was pregnant with our third kids, so none of
them had come early before. So I think I'd be
(28:58):
more meditative going in this time. I think I would
be just a lot more chill, and it would be
way less anxiety around the whole thing. I mean, that's
a good question where we all are now versus where
we were four years ago. I mean, I know, I
mean like Brook being like seven or eight months pregnant
and Jenny's kid being so small. Said right, it was Sid, Yeah,
(29:21):
said being Sid being so small that was an ideal
that was that was kind of shitty. So I think
we'd be a little more clearheaded, a little more of
a blank slate going in. Yeah, this time, I feel
like I was in a bit of like a postpartum
panic where I was like, I just need to do
something to like, you know, figure out like my place
(29:41):
in all of this, And I was really looking for
answers that now, at least in that department, I feel
that I have now. I think i'd be more freaked
out because I think with turning forty, I started to
now my new thing that I'm obsessed about and freaking
out about is dying. So I think I would have
different I would actually probably just have different fears. I
(30:05):
would kind of go into it a bit more like,
Oh God, is this going to fuck something up in
my body? Am I should? Should I really be doing this?
In that you have fears about you have like fears
about not not not special sense not in like I
was never a hypochondriac, but now I think with turning forty,
(30:27):
and also there's been some stuff that's happened in my
family with my dad and my brother and all this
ship that all of a sudden, I just I don't
feel so impervious. I just feel vulnerable. You know. My
therapist always says to me, She's like, Jenny, You've always
had fear before. It was like that your house was haunted,
that you were going to get kidnapped or molested, or
(30:48):
that you know, all of these things throughout the course
of my life. But now she says, your fears are
very age appropriate your forty and of course now you're
like my hands swollen. I need an m R. I why,
you know, why is this how anyway? So I think
that going into it, I can't. If I'm being completely honest,
I don't know that I wouldn't have fear. I just
think it would be different fears. Also, I think back
(31:10):
to Brandon's question, what would you're setting an attention? I
don't know that any of us did that for Ahuaska
set an intention. I kind of just went in wildly
and said, all right, let's see what happens. And and
now I did that drug that frog toad venom called
five D M e O T, which is like a
near death experience, which I didn't know that going in.
(31:31):
I was like, great. I wish somebody would have told
me that before because it was miserable. But that's another
thing where you like, it's so important to set an intention,
Like what even when you're like kind of casually having
fun with mushrooms or whatever, cannabis not really you don't
have to set an intention to take an edible, but
but you should start trying that that. I know every
believe me, I'd be setting attentions all day long. But
(31:54):
I think it is important to know that to go
in and say, okay, you know, I want to be present.
I want to have a great experience. I want to
learn about you know, if you have a question about
your career or your love life, or your family or
something like that. I think it's so it's a good
reminder to always just be remembered, because it's like every
morning I get up now and I meditate in bed
before I do anything, and I'm just like, okay, today,
(32:14):
no matter what happens, I'm going to stay in this mood.
You know, it doesn't matter what happens, it's not important.
Just be present and be in a calm mood and
nonreactive mood. That for me is like the most important
thing to be nonreactive, because that's you know, I'm born
as a reactor. I've never set intentions before. That's foreign
(32:35):
to me. When you set an attention, doesn't that sort
of like narrow your focus. Well, it's just an overall intention,
Like there could be a narrow intention, or there could
be an overall intention like you know, for me, like
the my whole therapy experience was to calm down, to
not be running around and be on my phone NonStop
and not be present, not looking at people when I'm
(32:55):
talking to them, having five conversations at once, you know,
for so many years on the show, that's how I
managed things. I was just eight, five things were coming
in my you know, and I would just do them
all really kind of half ass instead of intending to
have everything be my main focus. So it's not setting
an attention in like, you know, it's more like today,
don't be a cunt is my intention? Don't be a
(33:17):
fucking cunt? Yeah, I think you know it's overall? Will
you all all have very different personalities between you Dan
and Jenny. Yeah, exactly, very yeah, if they're I mean
different temperaments. So, Jenny, what number are you on the angiogram?
Did we just say? God, I'm a three, I'm like
a fucking tried in true three three? And what are
you do? You know what you are in the aniogram?
(33:39):
All right, we'll have to do that the next time
you come over. That'll keep us busy for at least
two to three hours. Well, since you're a pharmacological intuitive, yes,
and you say no mushrooms for me, because I think
you get this is why I think I think you
get very giddy already on pot. It's a lot to
handle for you, and you get very excitable. And I
and when I've seen you drunk a few times and
you're also get very excited. I did, and I think
(34:01):
that's great, And why why why take it further? So
is there someone you would not recommend? I think anybody
who has a hard time losing control? Okay, Well, like
Jenny says that now she's fearful of things, you know,
more in terms of medical condition, Well that's typical. Though
that's forty turning forty, that's what happens. You'll get over that.
(34:21):
I mean I had that same kind of you know,
you realize that you're in decline. It's so you are
getting older. But I mean it is a cliche that
you know, once you're in your forties you feel more
confident than ever. Because I when I turned forty, I
think I had like a definite crisis than the election.
(34:43):
Put was like that, you know, a hat on a hat.
I and it all kind of swirled together and I
fulminated into like, oh, this is unmanageable. So do you
think for someone who's already a type of personality, this
wouldn't help them or it could you know, hinder them? Know?
I mean I think if no, I think it could
help you, but you you have to know, you have
(35:04):
to trust, like what Alex said Alec Casci and my
friend who came on to talk about kenemine therapy, you
have to trust and respect your brain chemistry. You know
what you're okay with, and people know like they shouldn't
push yourself beyond your boundaries unless you feel like you're
in a very safe environment. And the most important thing
is to do something like this when you feel like
you are in a very safe environment, which we didn't
(35:28):
brandon to your point, I am a bit of a
control freak and I don't love being drunk. I don't
love I mean, he actually does nothing to me, Like
I could go to sleep on it. It doesn't even
affect my body for some reason. But this drug specifically,
you feel like you're in you have so much control.
That was sort of the crazy realization to me was
once I was on it, after I got over that
(35:50):
initial like oh I'm dizzy, it was like, oh, whoa,
I feel completely safe. I am fully alert, aware of
my vironment, like almost hyper aware, so you know. I mean,
I was always a fan of cocaine when I was
in my drug phase, and I felt like you have
that same sort of like I could function on this.
(36:11):
It's like, even though I'm having visions, it's not like
a mushroom where you know, I sit in like a
bathroom mirror and like dig for zits that don't exist.
It's not that. So it's far more like a mental control.
But you're physically out of control, like that dizzy feeling
and you know, not having control of yours. It's almost
like yeah, but yeah, but you know. It was so
weird was when the shaman decided that he was done
(36:33):
with us, because I don't know, maybe we were laughing
and he said that, like our trip was over and
he cut it short by like four hours. I felt
completely fine. I instantly felt fine. I was like, I'm hungry.
I want some of those jungle noodles they make here. Um,
let's go, let's just like go downstairs and have dinner.
Yeah you are. I like that. I like that post
(36:53):
high hungary too. I like that vibe where you're like,
oh yeah, it's you're exhausted from your night. It's especially
when you do mushrooms too, like the end of the night,
you're like, who wants pizza? That's the kind of the
best remember I threw up and then had something like
chicken soup in the forest. Well, you've been eating because
it's necessary for what's going on with you. But I
(37:14):
definitely felt control over directing my thoughts too. But I did,
oh back to the intention I do want to say
I did. When I went in there, I was like,
this is going to be a happy experience. This is
going to be fun. And the second yeah, I was like,
you're gonna this is gonna be happy. Like the whole time,
I was just like, nothing bad is going to happen,
and nothing bad did. So that's also a good thing
to say to yourself. I wonder why you had so
(37:36):
much focus on your sister though, because you have a
bunch of siblings so well. I would think that it
must have been a subconscious understanding of my own to
know that I behaved badly or that I was being
too harsh on her, and it was just kind of
coming to light in that way, so that, I mean,
it had to be in my subconscious somewhere. Well, I
think it's like, you don't judge anything that you don't
recognize in yourself. So I'm wondering, like, what in the
(37:59):
way that she lives. Do you most recognize about yourself?
Great question? You know what hearing you say, because I
didn't know the last part that you started to self
reflect and you didn't like that image. And that's probably
because Shan is very comfortable like not having people around
or just being in her element, and you're not. Like
there was a time where you didn't like being at
the house, especially by yourself. You didn't like being alone.
(38:21):
So you probably see things in Shanna you're now. Sean
is pretty social though, like me, and she's got kids
and she's in a different way. No, I think you're on.
I think you're a Yeah. I think it's something like wishful,
like you about yourself that's so extravagant, and like you're
always trying to fulfill something like you said in the
past about like these extreme activities, like you're always onto
the next thing, and it's just lately that you kind
of rain that in and like I don't have to
(38:43):
do that all the time. No. Well, because I read
that book Essentialism, which Jenny you should read too. I
think I sent it to you Dan right. Essentialism by
Greg McEwen. It's great. It's about just doing less better
and not doing everything poorly about you know, really focusing
on things. I'll drop off a cop But what you're
saying about shshana about out the activity like to create,
you know, the skiing and the you know, like whatever
(39:05):
I like to do kind of like extremist in a way,
like I like to go for it so hard is
And my psychiatrist told me, he's like, those are the
moments where you're present. Of course you love it because
that's the only time in your life you've been present.
When you're skiing down a mountain nine miles an hour,
you have to pay attention, and yeah, he goes, that's
why you feel the most alive. That's why you're so
(39:25):
drawn to those activities. If you can incorporate that into
your real life and be present in your real life
like that, you'll still feel the same thrills and rushes.
But you know, you have to be paying attention all
the time. So it's just another argument for being present
and for reminding myself. Oh, if I'm in the middle
of a conversation and i start thinking about something else,
or if I'm driving and I'm not thinking at all,
it's like, breathe, be present, you know, that's my issue mostly,
(39:49):
and I've really enjoyed learning how to do that because
it's kept. It's you know. Now I can read a
book without checking my phone every chapter. Even I just
read a book, Jenny that we're going to have to
send you. Dan gave me a book called Tampa. I'm
reading it right now. Are you by a lista nutting?
This is a very disturbing subject matter book, but it
(40:12):
is very well written and somehow very darkly funny. So
so you feel I feel really good about this recommendation,
do you? Yeah? I feel like, you know, because sometimes
it could be burdensome to give some of a book
it's like, oh fun you know, I got to read
this now, But clearly it worked. You liked it. I
thought it was funny and it aroused you. I wouldn't
(40:34):
say it aroused me, Dan, No, I would not say
it aroused me. But thank you for throwing that out there. Dan,
tell us a little bit where about where you are
in your life. Because Dan worked with me on my
shows for the last how many years? Eight before this
something like that, And then after we ended Chelsea, you
decided to go to school. I started volunteering at a
Counseling Center and liked it a lot. And now I'm
(41:00):
getting my masters and becoming amazing where and are you getting?
Like are you going to be? What are you going for?
An m f T isn't any Antioch? It is? Yeah,
I went to school. There are you kidding me? No?
I started getting my masters at Antioch. I loved it.
(41:22):
Are you gaffing people? Wait? Wait? Who were your professors?
Oh my god, I'd have to look on my papers.
I don't remember. I just remember the people that were
I was in class. Well, so did you graduate from there? No?
I got a movie and I left. Well, that was
the right thing to do. I had. You know, my
friend just made this movie. My friend just made this movie.
She always puts me in whatever she makes, and she
(41:44):
made this movie called Hustlers. It's coming out this this Friday.
And she wanted to put me in a scene j
Loo and Constance Wu and I couldn't do it because
I had class. The movie is like so huge right now,
and it's tracking so well. And and Dan, you are
(42:04):
such a great actor. Thanks, thank you. And you didn't
you didn't go do it. I'm surprised they would have
let you out. Yeah, it was so folks. I didn't
think it was a good idea. Wait, do you know
one of the teachers there. I'm just gonna do you
have the guy who Terry Terry something? He was one
of the Little Rock Five. I haven't had him yet. No,
Oh my god, it's one of the most incredible classes
(42:26):
I'd ever take. What's the what's the Little Rock Five?
So he was one of the one of the five
students that was bust into Little Rock. He's African American
and he was bust in to go to this all
white school when they were But you're watching, we're studying
it in class, right, we don't know until the very
end that he was one of those kids, Like he
(42:48):
doesn't reveal that. It was one of the most insane
classes I've ever taken. I might go to school at Antioch.
I would love that. Oh my god, I should just
go to that. I love Aunt anyway, because I want
to learn all out all that stuff. I'm so interested.
It's amazing. But classes on Freud everything is so great there.
They really do an amazing job. Well great, everybody seems
(43:10):
like they're growing up. So I guess I just I
guess the next step is discussing where we're going to
do it again and who else we're going to bring in.
Do you think Jason is ready to do it? Jenny? So,
you know, that's an interesting question because you know, he's sober,
and he still feels even though he knows that, you know,
I guess it has been used to treat addiction and whatnot.
(43:30):
I think he still has a little bit of trepidation
with just the whole being a drug thing, right right,
not that this is the kind of drug that's gonna
be like you know what I want to get now
a bag of cocaine and I want to go get
some hookers and go party. I mean, it's definitely not
that drug. But I don't know. Maybe for someone like Jason,
like you know, even like advoc cold and sinus could
(43:52):
be a gateway drug. Who knows. So what kind of
drugs are you using in your life now, Jenny? And
they do you use cannabis at all? You know? I
really lead, don't It makes me too paranoid? Really? And
I ate an edible. Before Jason's birthday last year, I
was in the sunken place. I couldn't get out. It
was like a three day trip well, that's you overdose.
(44:13):
You overdose. I just can't believe with micro dosing it
would be too much because you can get mints now,
like Petra has those two and a half milligram mints
that are just well. Brandon actually just said, you know what,
never mind, I'm waiting for your line to come out.
We're working and fine tuning everything because of the vaping crisis.
So I have to strip every all the chemicals out
of our vapes and make sure that they are still
(44:35):
smokable and effective because I don't want to put anything
out there that is going to cause any damage. And
there are so many chemicals in these things. So that's
what we're working on to Well, I'll be waiting. I'm ready.
It's good to be back together you guys. Jenny. It's
really annoying that you're not here. When are we going
to see you again? I'll be out there at the
beginning of October. Well, can you let me know this?
(44:56):
Oh I'm leaving. I go on tour in October to Australia.
Oh God, are you serious? I feel like you're missing.
So that's the impression I'm getting. Dan. Literally, let me
just tell you. Chelsea was here in town. We were
in front of the theater where she was about to perform.
I get a call from my sister in law who
tells me that they literally pulled the baby's arm out
(45:19):
of his socket. You know, I guess it's called nursemaid's elbow.
So it wasn't the arm of the elbow and we
had to leave. Terrible. His arm was in an electric socket. No,
the no, the socket. The elbow came out of the socket.
Oh my god, that sounds terrible. It's a quick fix, right,
was an elaborate excuse to get out of seeing Chelsea
(45:40):
that night. We really went for it. Well, you guys
went off and became parents, and now you're paying the price.
It's true, It's very true. Well, I love you. I
hope to see you. I hope to thank you. Thank you, Dan,
thank you, Jenny, thank you, Brandon, Thank you guys. Bye bye.
I okay, Well, this sounds like a good time to
(46:02):
take a break. Um, Dan, before we sign off, do
you want to say any parting words or do you
have anything you want to share with our listeners. I
think that the only thing I'm really interested in talking
about these days is the peloton. Oh yeah, that's right.
You've got a real peloton. I'm so so I have
a peloton now too. And everyone won't shut the funk
(46:24):
up about pelotons, which is so annoying. But when you
told me these are two things you made me do,
get a peloton, well, I think I had no tampa.
I read, and also to watch Succession because I had
started it and then I stopped it, and you convinced
me that I had to rewatch it and start again.
And I did start again last night, and you were right,
(46:47):
and everybody's right because the two things everybody keeps talking
about our succession and the peloton. And I want to
say to the people from Peloton, so annoying to hear
so many people talk about a bite and to take
Cody's class and to take Hannah's class. It's just like,
fuck off, fuck off. It's just it's like a cult.
(47:08):
So now I'm resisting it. And I you know, I
don't are you going to flex? What are you doing
with you? I could if you don't know. You listen,
think about the shaman, the shaman and the rainforest. That
guy's like not half the leader. That any of those
Pelton instructors are He's probably not wrong. Have you tried
(47:29):
the Pelton yet, Brandon? As my bell, she may have. Okay,
when I'm vulnerable and like in the middle of an effort,
I ironically am so inspired by these people. Yeah, and
I speaking of Cody, I think I think he's hilarious.
They'll say, get a sip of water, grab a towel,
and get your life together. It sounds pretty gay. He's
(47:51):
obviously gay. Yeah. I do think you should say, though,
that it is a good workout. You've mentioned why did
we Why do I have to say that? Well, because
for people who are interested in the Peltic, so it is.
And yeah, you know you're right, Brandon. I mean I
don't want to assail them. Obviously, people love it and
that's great. I just don't want to hear about it
so many times a day because I resist that. But
that's my own issue. Again, I've tried it several times.
(48:12):
I've tried to take Cody's class. I tried Hannah, and
I tried somebody else and I cannot get past ten.
Matt Wilper's okay, and Dennis is the guy that and Dennis,
so I'm gonna keep going at it. But you know.
I think maybe I'm just going to have to acclimate
and take some slower classes or just do the scenic rides.
The only issue with some of the scenic rides is
that you're riding over things that don't have a bike path.
(48:34):
So they take you over mountain ranges, like you're riding
your bike up a mountain and there's and then you
increase the resistance so that there's no path. There's no path,
there's I mean, I'm just like, you know what, I
can't speak to it. I'm not riding on rocks. It
doesn't make sense. Sometimes I'm riding my bike over water
like there's it's not the right. Anyone who's listening must
know what I'm talking about. And if you don't, please
(48:56):
don't contact me. And if you do, please don't content. Okay,
So I have added some stand up dates. I am
coming to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Vancouver, Milwaukee, Indianapolis,
Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Toronto. We just
added a second show there and we are adding other
second shows if your market is sold out. I'm also
(49:19):
coming to Sydney, Australia on October five. I believe I'm
coming to Brisbane, I'm coming to Melbourne, and then I'm
going to Auckland, New Zealand. You can go to my
accountable page for information on social activism, or you can
go to Emily's List and follow them because I have
(49:39):
partnered with Emily's List to raise awareness for all the
female candidates that they are backing, and they're all progressive women.
So if you're interested in doing that, you can follow
all of those places. And there's also a Facebook group
that I've started called The Orange Room, which is a
private group and you have to, I guess to get
(50:01):
in the group, you have to mention something from the
book that you've read. This is a support group for
anybody dealing with trauma or loss or grief, and it
is really just like a really beautiful space and I've
been really moved. I hop on there and send messages
and respond to people, and everybody else is really supportive
of each other on there as well. And my new
(50:24):
documentary is out tomorrow night on Netflix. It's called Hello Privilege.
It's me Chelsea. Yes. It premiers midnight on Netflix and
you can find me on Instagram or Twitter. Brandon. Everyone
keeps asking me on my d M s on Instagram
about your Instagram. No, we should just get this clear.
I have no social media, I don't care about it,
(50:46):
and we're going to keep it that way. I think
that's the right decision. I didn't make it for him,
just in case you're wondering. My Bell, on the other hand,
has to make her account private. She's got a lot
of fans. Almost two Okay, good Night Life will be
the Death of Me as a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from i heeart Radio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(51:09):
favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the
Death of Me? A production of I Heart Radio. Good Morning, Brandon,
Good morning. What day is it? And well today, it's
going to be Thursday when people hear this, or it
might be the day after or the day after that.
Well a little inside knowledge. We record this on Monday. Okay, okay,
today's Monday. How is your weekend? I saw you over
(00:22):
the weekend. Actually I saw you a lot over the weekend.
You were at my house a lot Saturday and Sunday.
I was nice. That was nice. Thank you came up.
And I had a little pool party on Saturday for
some friends and their kids, because every once in a
while I like to have kids at my house just
to remind myself that they shouldn't be there. And then
you came and cleaned up Sunday morning, and that was
really nice of you. And I don't know if you noticed,
(00:43):
but I cleaned up the dog shit on Sunday morning.
Actually got pretty good condition when I got there. I
only went because you had a guest day, so I
wanted to make sure that everything was the up and up,
that we made a good impression. There were no drugs
out or anything like that. And there were after kids
being there. I thought for sure there would be yeah,
and there were not. They were not everybody of themselves
that day at the pool, it was like unlike any
other day. Joining us today in studio are Dan Morio
(01:06):
and Jenny Molin, my two friends, my two very dear
friends who came with me to Peru to do ayahuasca
from my Netflix special Chelsea Does Drugs a few years ago.
So we are reuniting in studio to discuss the effects,
the experience and the after effects. So for those of
you who are not familiar with ayahuasca, it is a
(01:26):
plant that is grown in Peru that is used as
a hallucinogenic. I wouldn't would you describe it as a psychedelic.
It is a psychedelic, I believe Dan, I don't know. Okay. Anyway,
that's the information we have on ayahuasca. Brandon, you were
not in my life at this point. No, this is
right before me. Right. But now that I've done ayahuasca,
(01:48):
you probably because when you met me, you didn't drink
or smoke weed. Correct, And now look at you, lean
and hard, right, and how do you feel about your
life since you started imbibing, and you know, I feel good.
I think that everyone should experience something like you. You
actually say in the documentary that you want to know
what everything feels like, like there's nothing you don't want
to try. And I've tried to take more of that on,
(02:09):
even in little things like something that I would have
said no to trying food related before, Like we went
and had oysters, which never interested me, and you're like,
you just have to do it. What's the worst that's
gonna happen. That's kind of what I've taken on. Well,
that's good. And also I think that you have a
lot of people have are under the assumption that if
you are partaking in alcohol or you know, cannabis used, especially,
(02:29):
there's a stereotype that you can't get ship done or
that you're lazy, and that is not true. Either. You
can get things done. I am I'm inherently lazy anyway,
but I still get things done on cannabis. You're the
highest functioning cannabis user I've ever encountered to that. One second,
let me have a drink of this tea. Well, thank you, Brendon,
and I'm glad that you started imbibing because you were
(02:52):
wound very tight, and I would say that you've loosened
up a lot. I think it's really helped, except for
the other day. I did take a two point five
millionary am mint at the house when I was feeling
a little anxious. And then what were you feeling anxious about?
I don't know, it's just early morning. I got there
and I just knew I felt wound high, and I
was like, you know what, just take this, it's two
point five it's just going to take the edge off.
(03:12):
And then I came home three hours later and he
had his shoes off, feed up on the table, had
a bunch of books and snacks around him. Well, not books,
snacks and paperwork, I guess. I was still trying to work, yeah,
but lounging. And so I didn't want to disturb him.
So I went up to my room and hid there
until he was done relaxing. But I had to admittantly
tell you what had happened. Yes, you did tell me
(03:33):
that you were high, and I said, good for you,
Good for you. What a workplace? Okay, So hi guys,
how are you Hi? Hi? Jenny from New York and
Danny from Jenny from the block and Danny from the Valley. Hi,
Hi guys, it's nice to reunite. The three of us
haven't actually been together since we did the Iowa or no,
we did an episode of the Netflix show right after
(03:54):
post ayahuasca. Maybe no, don't think that did. We did
it okay, and we just parted ways and decided that
we were never going to speak again. And then three
of us were never going to be in the same place.
And actually Jenny, actually Jenny has putting me up in
her apartment and not even bother to hang out with
me while that was happening. Was she in the city.
I went to the city and she's like, stay at
(04:16):
my apartment, and then I stayed at her house in Spain. Yeah,
she stayed at my house in Spain, where I also
didn't see her. I think that's how she rolls. I
think she just wants to pass like ships in the night,
so make you think you're still in a friendship but
never actually seeing each other, which is what's happening right
now because you're you're in New York and we're in
l A. She's doing it again. So we're talking about
(04:37):
ayahuasca today, and I think it's a good time to
check in. How many years has it been since our
experience together? Has it been? I think it's been longer
than more, because I been four years. Okay, so it's
been four years and none of us have done it since,
and you guys, I think we all it had an
impact on all three of us. Let's talk about how
long each person's trip was, because line, the first night
(05:01):
was kind of interrupted by by you guys, which I
was happy to have it interrupted. But you guys, would
you say it was like an hour? Two hours? I
feel like when I settled in it took about fifteen
minutes for it to begin, and that the trip itself
was a few minutes only, No, it wasn't a few minutes. Like, well,
(05:24):
you're laying there for much longer than that. I think
you mean lying. I think you mean lying there. Oh,
please lying there for Maybe you're probably lying there for
thirty minutes or laying there And yeah, I think there
was only the story that I told less than five minutes.
(05:46):
Oh that's interesting, I don't. I feel like it lasted
a lifetime, and yet in real time it was probably
I would say an hour and a half two hours.
Now does start to finish? Is that you're drinking the
cup of whatever you drank. So yeah, I feel like
you drinking. You're instantly in it. I mean maybe five
(06:08):
minutes tops. Yeah, and Dan went down before any of us.
You guys, Dan, it was like two minutes. And and
he's so thin that his body just like it took
over it almost. Yeah, it almost discombobulated right there in
front of us. That's what I was scared. That's appropriate.
That word. It makes no sense in that content. Discombbulated. Yes, sorry, sorry,
you're right, I stand corrected. At least I'm not laying
bricks over there while I'm lying down. So as soon
(06:31):
as the trip has done, you feel normal again, completely normal.
I mean you feel enlightened, but you feel completely sober
and you also the great thing is you remember everything,
and we still remember everything that's in years, like you
remember the scenes. And it's not like a drug where
sometimes it's blurry or alcohol, which can you know, make
you not remember this. You remember everything, which is an advantage,
(06:53):
and that's why I think it can be so therapeutic
because you are remembering everything and there's no come down. No,
you're zero come down. It's not like that. So it
almost felt like you're like, I have never been hypnotized.
But you know when you see people and you know
the whoever it is, the magician or the therapists snapped
their fingers and the person is fine. That's what it
(07:16):
felt like. When he said the trip's over, I looked.
I turned to Chelsea was like, I guess it's over.
It wasn't. It didn't take anything. It's a really weird
feature of that drug that you're if mushrooms is like
augmented reality, ayahuasca is like virtual reality and you're in
total control. It's like you're immersed in something it is.
(07:40):
That's so true. Yeah, and there's nothing physiological other than
being sick to your stomach in a forest. There's nothing
like physiologically going on. You can just after you've laid
down and you're meditating. Your focus is a big part
of it. I think you mean after you lay down,
(08:02):
because you're not a chicken, are you? Do you lay eggs?
Why don't you tell us a little bit about your
experience then and how you look at it now. So
when you asked me to do it, I was in
the middle of finishing my book that was sort of
about my journey through motherhood, and I felt like, oh
(08:23):
my god, this is a perfect opportunity to chase the story,
to go on this adventure, to try something that is
a little maybe outside of the box. But I don't know.
I had spoken to my therapist and she's like, I
think it would be good for you. You're struggling with
figuring out who you are as a mother and your
(08:44):
new identity, and maybe ayahuasca is actually a good idea.
So when when I ran that past Jason, at first
he flipped out, but then eventually, like all of my
you know, crazy hair brained ideas, I got him on board.
And yeah, it was scary. That night was terrifying because
(09:05):
of our surroundings were scary also, like we were in
the woods in a lodge, and lodge is a generous
term for where we stayed. It was more like a
hut that served food, and we were and it was
really dark, and you know that there are lots of
critters and snakes in Peru on the Amazon. We were
right off of the Amazon Um, so it was a scary.
(09:27):
And then we had to walk up to that tented
therapy room or journey room or whatever the hell they
called it. What did they call that? I don't remember,
doesn't I don't know. It was some sort of like your, yeah, your,
it was a your with toilets, but you know toilets.
I mean, you guys found the toilets. I didn't, luckily
never had to go there. Oh yeah, I spent quite
a lot of time in the toilet. And what was
(09:48):
your overwhelming feeling? How would you describe it? Well? I
remember when he was passing around the cup, and at
first I was like, oh, dude, you're giving me way
too much. I mean, like this is too I think
I'm going to have two intense of a trip if
I drink this whole cup. But you know, he was
the shaman, was somebody that we couldn't really communicate with,
so I guess I just sort of went with it,
(10:11):
and luckily Dan ended up kind of going into like
a deeper, more like gnarly kind of dark place than
I did. At first, it was like that feeling of
like you're on ecstasy mixed with like maybe you're a
little buzzed, so you feel very dizzy. And then all
of a sudden, I found myself in my childhood home
of the house that I I didn't even know I remembered.
(10:33):
I mean, this was like lifetimes ago, it feels like.
And I started sort of having these experiences that I
guess I had lived before, but just in a different way.
And it almost felt like I was on like a
Spotify account where I could just like click to change
the image or click, you know, click through songs, so
I could like change the image. So if I didn't
(10:54):
love whatever I was feeling, I felt in control enough
to be able to kind of like flip over to
a different vision. And then I saw Sid and at
the time, so it wasn't speaking, so Sid was probably
not a year old or or had just turned a year,
but in my vision, he was speaking to me and
(11:15):
I and I sort of got this piece that I
needed where he looked at me and he's like, you're
already enough, Like you don't have to prove to me
that you are good enough to be my mom. You
already are just by being my mom. You are enough
for me. And that is what like just sent me
into hysterics. Yeah, and that would I couldn't handle it,
(11:39):
I thought. And my dog recently died, so you know,
I going into what I was expecting. Oh my God,
I'm gonna have this like huge traumatic encounter with you know,
the ghost of my dog or you know. But it
was nothing about my dog. It was all about my childhood.
And it really came full circle with with seeing my son.
I wonder if I did it now, if Bert would
(11:59):
come to me in a vision and say, I feel
I don't know, Yeah, I probably would. But then Jason
came into it, right, Jason wasn't as big of a part. No,
but I did love In your book when you're like,
I think Jenny was terrified because she realized how much
she loved her husband. Well you did, because remember you
came out of it. You're like, I have to call Jason.
(12:20):
Have to call Jason. I'm like, are you going to
tell him everything? You felt? Like? Definitely not No, definitely,
no way, he can never know. It would give him
too much of an upper hand in our marriage. Yeah. No, no,
of course, don't tell him and he doesn't need to know. Yes, exactly.
And then no, I mean it was it was super
I opening, and I felt like I was a different
(12:40):
person afterwards. I mean, I know that sounds ridiculous, but
I did feel as though I had had ten years
of therapy or had just like upped my zul off
to like three d milligrams. I mean I was in
a very good place, and I would say that lasted
for maybe like a good year year and a half,
and then happened and then I just send it into
(13:01):
darkness again. Really no, but but yeah, like I think
that it's a crazy therapeutic experience, and unfortunately, as human beings,
I think it's just hard to hold onto any anything.
So I, you know, maybe I just need to do
it again, is what I'm saying. We've talked about doing
it again. Are you looking into it? Seriously? I would
(13:23):
totally do it again. I just need to make sure
that with my thyroid it's okay. Now I have a
hyper thyroid, so I have to And what about your
antidepressants because a lot of people say you're not supposed
to do it if because you didn't you go off
your you didn't do it. Was off meds for yeah,
for like seven years I was off meds and then
I recently got back on. But I would if we
(13:44):
decided to do this, I would get off. I mean,
I'm on a such a low dose that it's not
like a major deal. I've only been on it for
like a month, so we could also get a bunch
of people do it and do it right here in California,
you know, right, and like you can do that, right,
I mean yeah, because yeah, And I have a ton
of friends that are always interested in doing it, and
I'm interested in doing it now that I've had therapy
(14:05):
and my head's in a different place, Like I now
would like to see what I would get out of it,
because I bet I could go a lot deeper than
I was able to them. Well, it was a compromised atmosphere.
I mean the light wasn't there was too much light,
and there was a camera crew right when there was
too much light from the camera crew, right right, Okay,
I'm just connects, just connecting a little dots. Yeah. I
(14:27):
would be interested in doing it again without it being documented.
Oh yeah, yeah, I would be interested in doing it
again without it being documented, and also in documenting it again.
I like to do this. Yeah, me too, I feel safer.
I do too. I do too, Brandon, would you want
to be chaperone to doing it? From hearing Jenny's after
watching it, No, nothing about it interests me. Okay, Dan,
(14:50):
let's you see it really partly because I just Dan
laying on his map. I just have such this like
image that is resonating of him being so dizzy and
feeling sick and I hate throwing up more than anything.
And him saying I would not wish this on my
worst enemy is not exactly you know, the accolade I'm
looking for when trying a drug, like that's not a
(15:10):
seal of approval for me. And diarrhea like crazy didn't dihea,
It's been a fun right the diarrhea, well, I you know, listen,
I went into that ceremony thinking I'm going to sweat,
probably ship my pants and vomit and probably be thin.
And I remember gaining six or seven pounds on that trip.
Only I can go somewhere where to a sweat lodge,
(15:33):
have diarrhea, vomit, and put on weight. Okay for the record, Chelsea,
at first she walked into this journey, She's like, I'm
not drinking, I'm eating clean, I'm not like all of
the basically the this list that she brought up, things
that she had to adhere or two before doing the drug.
After it didn't work. The first time she goes in,
she's like eating Oreos. She's like, fuck it, We're okay,
(15:55):
give me a vodka. All right, I'm gonna do it again.
So at that point, yeah, I think I had to
gay did the effects of it by drinking the first
night because I was like, oh, this doesn't work, I'll
just have something. I guess I'm gonna have to get
a buzz a different way. Dan, Let's talk about your experiencing,
your initial reaction. What you remember feeling and immediately same
thing that Jenny mentioned with there's a sense of agency
(16:18):
that's bizarre. I had the same thing childhood home. It
was like I was like floating through space and then
spat out into my childhood home backyard, and I remember,
you're aware of everything as you go. Like Jenny was saying,
spotify my list, you have this rich detail. I remember
(16:41):
thinking I could go and oh that's what the back
door of my childhood home was like. I haven't thought
about this in years. And I walked into my child
at home and I was like, oh, there's the trees
to play in avalon um walked into my kitchen. Haven't
thought of this and forever rich detail I'm gonna go to.
I made a decision to go to my childhood bedroom,
(17:02):
walked down the hallway, I saw all my old toys, shelves, everything,
went over, made a decision to go look at where
my old toys were. And then when I turned around,
it was me as a child sitting on the bed.
That was like the price of Admission moment where because
(17:23):
there was this thing of like, oh, this is all
too good to be true. I think I said it.
I think it made the cut where I was like,
what this drug promises, something revelatory, something that will change
you a little bit. I said, it seems too good
to be true. And then in my trip or whatever
you wanna call it, when I turned around and saw
(17:43):
myself sitting on the bed as a child, I was like, Oh,
that's that's something else. That's this has to be deep,
even if I can't unpack it in the moment. And
then there was like a time at it and I
was holding myself, which is amazing, and I was like, oh,
that's definitely loaded. I had this phrase come to my head.
(18:07):
You are your own father, you have to be a
good father. It was something like that, which is a
real kind of like that was the deep sort of
takeaway from the thing. It was sort of a slow burn,
heavy kind of visual and phrase that and were you
able to change channels like Jenny talked about, Yeah, there
(18:28):
was that that sense of I would say, that's one
of the defining characteristics of that drug, is you it's
meditative because you're supposed to follow the shaman's singing or
whatever he's chanting. It was hard to follow that though,
because he was also defecating well while he was chanting,
and he was sitting into our hair and like beating
(18:50):
us over the head with like leaves. I liked that part.
I have to say, I do like getting hit with leaves.
Ostensibly he's he's the leader, but like I didn't respect
him anybody anybody who like smoking. Smoking is a bad idea,
and like I can't like, if you're going to smoke,
(19:12):
you're gonna smoke in a rainforest. That seems like a
ridiculous idea. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and
we'll be right back. As a spectator, having rewatched this
last night, I did not get anything from what you
just said. Dan, like your experience. It seemed horrible because
you're saying when you're sitting there, you just say, like
I'm having like deep dark thoughts, like you seeing yourself
(19:35):
as a child. That seems nice, that seems like maybe
I do want to try this drug. But what we
saw on the edit was not that at all. It
was like, absolutely, under no circumstance would your experience make
someone want to try it? Right? So, did I think
a turn at a certain Well no, I think I mean,
as far as the narrative goes, it had to focus
on Chelsea. So I think I talked about my trip
(19:56):
on camera, but they probably just couldn't fit it in.
She had to be the focus, like it was probably
just funny to like put in you sound resentful. Well,
I finally I could get this story out. The people
want to know that, we want to know. I can't
wait to be able to refer people to this to
get the real as. A follow up documentary coming out
(20:16):
is offshoot documentary called Dan Does Drugs. Well now that
it's been a few years, because I think Chelsea said before, well,
you just said now that you would try it again.
But I think before you said that you're not really interested.
I wasn't because I don't like the vomiting or the
shifting aspect. And luckily I didn't have to go to
the bathroom, and I didn't should be but I did vomit.
But it was in and out, like you guys were
(20:37):
in the bathroom, in and out. I don't know if
you were vomiting. I'll tell you what happened when I
went to the bathroom. Okay, well, let's start with I
think I was the first to get up and go
and overwhelmingly sick to my stomach. I didn't want to
throw up on camera. Went over to this stall in
this hut, and every single inch of the surface us
(21:00):
of this bathroom, toilet, walls, everything was covered with with bugs.
It was yes, it was so and I thought about
like I was like beetles everywhere. I thought about my home.
I thought about my home and like you know, we
(21:21):
were I was just thinking about you. I was like,
I hate you so like why do I Like? There
was a lot of heavy anger directed towards me. I
could feel it. I was like, oh, I better get
out of the way. He's looking straight at me with
like the devil in his eyes because he was looking
at me, and I was a reflection of the devil
to you at that point. And then it passed. It did,
(21:41):
I didn't throw up. I went and laid back down
and and then that's when my trip started, was when
this wave of sickness passed, I could lay down and
start focusing. And that's when I was like I was
floating through space in this trippy kind of way. Yeah,
I think that you know it's different way you do
it right away because it has to sink in. I
(22:02):
like the perspective. I like having so many years to
reflect upon it because it's changed over time. And I
definitely have to say to what you said, Jenny, that
you thought your behavior changed for about a year, like
it changed my relationship with my sister Shanna forever, because
after that, I just like I had a completely different
attitude towards her, and and I haven't, I mean even
(22:26):
now to this day. I mean, we just were in
Martha's vineyard a couple of weeks ago and she was
texting me like she can do, like asking me kind
of the same question over and over and or we
were on the phone or something and I just went, Shanna,
you seriously just stopped. You're annoying me. And she's like, oh, sorry, okay,
and then we hung up, and then I called her back.
I'm like, I'm sorry, you're not annoying me. You can
keep asking me the question, like I have a thing
(22:47):
in my head now to always make sure she feels okay.
And because people who haven't seen the documentary, your visions
were tied closely to san Yeah, my visions were tied closely.
I mean I've spoken ad nauseum about my own ayahuasca experience,
So if you're listening to this podcast and you don't
know about it, it was about my sister and treating
her fairly well. The first night with you guys, I
(23:09):
didn't really get the experience because I guess I was
distracted by both of you and your what was happening
to you, And I felt obviously responsible, look pretty guilty.
I felt pretty bad about what was going down. So
I kind of I felt a couple of tingles starting
to happen in my feet when we were in that
big yard in the first night, and I was like, Okay,
(23:31):
it's happening, It's happening, And then you guys started moaning
and crying and bellowing, and I was like, holy shit,
I gotta get involved here. So that night wasn't the
night for me, but the next night, when I did
it alone with my boyfriend, the shaman who spends his
night shipping his pants in his cavalrici or true religion,
(23:51):
True Religion, they were jeans. The next night was exactly that.
It was the ability to see yourself as a child
outside of yourself. You're watching yourself as a kid, but
you're not, You're not the kid. You're just watching. And
it was all scenes that were true, that had happened
and played out like this kind of Phantasmagoria is the
(24:13):
word I'd like to use, because I think it best
describes it as just like a shuffling of scenes in
front of you. And and it was my sister and
I just laughter, like you know, it was just laughter
on the water and I could hear us. You know,
we would tip each other over in kayaks and we
would end up. I would always pee in my pants
when I was a little girl, and she would always laugh.
You know, my brothers and sisters would always egg me
(24:34):
on to do that. And it was just us running
down the beach holding hands and me pulling her, and
it was just a reminder like, oh, she and I
are sisters. We've been together longer than anyone else in
my life, and we held hands our entire childhood without
even thinking, and why am I sitting in such judgment
of her? Because she wants to live in New Jersey
(24:54):
and she's perfectly content raising kids and being a housewife.
Like I didn't get that and she and that was
like there was a voice saying, she is her you
or you, you're the one who wants the attention. She
doesn't want the attention. There's no reason to judge her.
And that was like, oh. And then the other thing
that happened right at the end, because I remember feeling
(25:14):
that and it was overwhelming and I had tears streaming
down my face because I was like, just felt so
much love for her, Like I was like, oh, be kind,
be gentle. She's not like you, and that's a good thing.
That's not a bad thing. You know, she's a different
person and you have to respect that. And then I
was overcome with you have too many people around you
all the time. It's okay to be alone. It's okay
(25:36):
to spend time alone. And I remember thinking, oh, fuck,
I don't want to deal with that, Like I don't
want to have to start to, you know, take a
real look at myself, which was probably the over you know,
bearing or overall message, the deeper message there, But at
that moment, I was like, no, I just got the
sister message. I'm going to focus on that. I don't
want to deal with spending more time alone or getting
(25:58):
rid of some people in my life or what ever
that meant for me at that time. And I remember thinking, really,
all I wanted to do was go downstairs and have
a drink with the crew and tell them just what happened,
which is exactly the opposite of the voice in my
head telling me to sit there and be alone and
be okay with being alone and without all the activity.
So now I think after the last two years of
(26:21):
all of this, the book and the therapy and all
of the stuff that I've learned from my psychiatrist, and
I think my brain is so much healthier, and I'm
I'm really curious now to see what would happen, and
I would definitely do it again. So how would you
guys go into it differently? Because there's also seen in
the documentary where you're all on the porch and you're
all scared, Like Chelsea says, no, I'm not scared, but
(26:43):
Jenny and Dan you were like speaking admittedly about that
you were nervous to go into it, and the shaman
at one point said, you can't go into this with fear.
And Chelsea you talk a lot about now, like setting
intentions for everything, like your day before, you meditate, whatever
you do. So now, having done the Ayahwaska, knowing kind
of the pain and yes that you're going to go through,
you kind of alleviated that one aspect of it. What
(27:06):
would your intention or thought be now going into it? Well,
I mean that's a good question to ask you to Jenny.
Did you feel like you prepared yourself in the right
way for it? Well, I just remember there were a
lot of like dietary adjustments, and I just I have
starvation anxiety. So I feel like I couldn't do it.
I mean, I know that you guys, you guys are
almost fasted that entire day, and maybe that is why
(27:28):
I was like shooting my brains out for most of
my trip, But I don't know that I could adhere
to There were just so many rigid rules. It was
like don't have sex, don't eat tomatoes. Don't you know
they're just like crazy? Yeah, because I guess it lessens
the impact, But I mean I would say that it
didn't lessen the impact for you actually know, how would
(27:50):
we know? I mean, how would we know what impact
it could? I mean I could have been Dan. I
mean maybe it was a good thing I had something, Yeah, exactly.
I mean they said you shouldn't drink for like three
weeks leading up to it. I think I didn't drink.
I didn't drink the night before like that, right, and
you weren't allowed to have certain foods because it doesn't
work as well. But Dan, when you look back at it,
do you think about it as a positive, Because then
(28:12):
Dan came out of it and said, Hey, I need
to get back to my family. My wife is pregnant.
What the funk am I doing here? So I think
you were really mad at yourself, and you were taking
out your anger on me because I had given you
the opportunity and you took it. Would you do it
differently now? I don't have regrets about going. I it
(28:33):
seemed like a truly adventurous thing to do, to go
to and Dan, your wife was like, if I weren't pregnant,
I'd be fucking all over this. So you have to go, Dan,
so you can't be too mad. Yeah, No, we both went.
I have no regrets about I would do it again.
I mean there was precedent, like we had. This was
Brooke was pregnant with our third kids, so none of
them had come early before. So I think I'd be
(28:58):
more meditative going in this time. I think I would
be just a lot more chill, and it would be
way less anxiety around the whole thing. I mean, that's
a good question where we all are now versus where
we were four years ago. I mean, I know, I
mean like Brook being like seven or eight months pregnant
and Jenny's kid being so small. Said right, it was Sid, Yeah,
(29:21):
said being Sid being so small that was an ideal
that was that was kind of shitty. So I think
we'd be a little more clearheaded, a little more of
a blank slate going in. Yeah, this time, I feel
like I was in a bit of like a postpartum
panic where I was like, I just need to do
something to like, you know, figure out like my place
(29:41):
in all of this, And I was really looking for
answers that now, at least in that department, I feel
that I have now. I think i'd be more freaked
out because I think with turning forty, I started to
now my new thing that I'm obsessed about and freaking
out about is dying. So I think I would have
different I would actually probably just have different fears. I
(30:05):
would kind of go into it a bit more like,
Oh God, is this going to fuck something up in
my body? Am I should? Should I really be doing this?
In that you have fears about you have like fears
about not not not special sense not in like I
was never a hypochondriac, but now I think with turning forty,
(30:27):
and also there's been some stuff that's happened in my
family with my dad and my brother and all this
ship that all of a sudden, I just I don't
feel so impervious. I just feel vulnerable. You know. My
therapist always says to me, She's like, Jenny, You've always
had fear before. It was like that your house was haunted,
that you were going to get kidnapped or molested, or
(30:48):
that you know, all of these things throughout the course
of my life. But now she says, your fears are
very age appropriate your forty and of course now you're
like my hands swollen. I need an m R. I why,
you know, why is this how anyway? So I think
that going into it, I can't. If I'm being completely honest,
I don't know that I wouldn't have fear. I just
think it would be different fears. Also, I think back
(31:10):
to Brandon's question, what would you're setting an attention? I
don't know that any of us did that for Ahuaska
set an intention. I kind of just went in wildly
and said, all right, let's see what happens. And and
now I did that drug that frog toad venom called
five D M e O T, which is like a
near death experience, which I didn't know that going in.
(31:31):
I was like, great. I wish somebody would have told
me that before because it was miserable. But that's another
thing where you like, it's so important to set an intention,
Like what even when you're like kind of casually having
fun with mushrooms or whatever, cannabis not really you don't
have to set an intention to take an edible, but
but you should start trying that that. I know every
believe me, I'd be setting attentions all day long. But
(31:54):
I think it is important to know that to go
in and say, okay, you know, I want to be present.
I want to have a great experience. I want to
learn about you know, if you have a question about
your career or your love life, or your family or
something like that. I think it's so it's a good
reminder to always just be remembered, because it's like every
morning I get up now and I meditate in bed
before I do anything, and I'm just like, okay, today,
(32:14):
no matter what happens, I'm going to stay in this mood.
You know, it doesn't matter what happens, it's not important.
Just be present and be in a calm mood and
nonreactive mood. That for me is like the most important
thing to be nonreactive, because that's you know, I'm born
as a reactor. I've never set intentions before. That's foreign
(32:35):
to me. When you set an attention, doesn't that sort
of like narrow your focus. Well, it's just an overall intention,
Like there could be a narrow intention, or there could
be an overall intention like you know, for me, like
the my whole therapy experience was to calm down, to
not be running around and be on my phone NonStop
and not be present, not looking at people when I'm
(32:55):
talking to them, having five conversations at once, you know,
for so many years on the show, that's how I
managed things. I was just eight, five things were coming
in my you know, and I would just do them
all really kind of half ass instead of intending to
have everything be my main focus. So it's not setting
an attention in like, you know, it's more like today,
don't be a cunt is my intention? Don't be a
(33:17):
fucking cunt? Yeah, I think you know it's overall? Will
you all all have very different personalities between you Dan
and Jenny. Yeah, exactly, very yeah, if they're I mean
different temperaments. So, Jenny, what number are you on the angiogram?
Did we just say? God, I'm a three, I'm like
a fucking tried in true three three? And what are
you do? You know what you are in the aniogram?
(33:39):
All right, we'll have to do that the next time
you come over. That'll keep us busy for at least
two to three hours. Well, since you're a pharmacological intuitive, yes,
and you say no mushrooms for me, because I think
you get this is why I think I think you
get very giddy already on pot. It's a lot to
handle for you, and you get very excitable. And I
and when I've seen you drunk a few times and
you're also get very excited. I did, and I think
(34:01):
that's great, And why why why take it further? So
is there someone you would not recommend? I think anybody
who has a hard time losing control? Okay, Well, like
Jenny says that now she's fearful of things, you know,
more in terms of medical condition, Well that's typical. Though
that's forty turning forty, that's what happens. You'll get over that.
(34:21):
I mean I had that same kind of you know,
you realize that you're in decline. It's so you are
getting older. But I mean it is a cliche that
you know, once you're in your forties you feel more
confident than ever. Because I when I turned forty, I
think I had like a definite crisis than the election.
(34:43):
Put was like that, you know, a hat on a hat.
I and it all kind of swirled together and I
fulminated into like, oh, this is unmanageable. So do you
think for someone who's already a type of personality, this
wouldn't help them or it could you know, hinder them? Know?
I mean I think if no, I think it could
help you, but you you have to know, you have
(35:04):
to trust, like what Alex said Alec Casci and my
friend who came on to talk about kenemine therapy, you
have to trust and respect your brain chemistry. You know
what you're okay with, and people know like they shouldn't
push yourself beyond your boundaries unless you feel like you're
in a very safe environment. And the most important thing
is to do something like this when you feel like
you are in a very safe environment, which we didn't
(35:28):
brandon to your point, I am a bit of a
control freak and I don't love being drunk. I don't
love I mean, he actually does nothing to me, Like
I could go to sleep on it. It doesn't even
affect my body for some reason. But this drug specifically,
you feel like you're in you have so much control.
That was sort of the crazy realization to me was
once I was on it, after I got over that
(35:50):
initial like oh I'm dizzy, it was like, oh, whoa,
I feel completely safe. I am fully alert, aware of
my vironment, like almost hyper aware, so you know. I mean,
I was always a fan of cocaine when I was
in my drug phase, and I felt like you have
that same sort of like I could function on this.
(36:11):
It's like, even though I'm having visions, it's not like
a mushroom where you know, I sit in like a
bathroom mirror and like dig for zits that don't exist.
It's not that. So it's far more like a mental control.
But you're physically out of control, like that dizzy feeling
and you know, not having control of yours. It's almost
like yeah, but yeah, but you know. It was so
weird was when the shaman decided that he was done
(36:33):
with us, because I don't know, maybe we were laughing
and he said that, like our trip was over and
he cut it short by like four hours. I felt
completely fine. I instantly felt fine. I was like, I'm hungry.
I want some of those jungle noodles they make here. Um,
let's go, let's just like go downstairs and have dinner.
Yeah you are. I like that. I like that post
(36:53):
high hungary too. I like that vibe where you're like,
oh yeah, it's you're exhausted from your night. It's especially
when you do mushrooms too, like the end of the night,
you're like, who wants pizza? That's the kind of the
best remember I threw up and then had something like
chicken soup in the forest. Well, you've been eating because
it's necessary for what's going on with you. But I
(37:14):
definitely felt control over directing my thoughts too. But I did,
oh back to the intention I do want to say
I did. When I went in there, I was like,
this is going to be a happy experience. This is
going to be fun. And the second yeah, I was like,
you're gonna this is gonna be happy. Like the whole time,
I was just like, nothing bad is going to happen,
and nothing bad did. So that's also a good thing
to say to yourself. I wonder why you had so
(37:36):
much focus on your sister though, because you have a
bunch of siblings so well. I would think that it
must have been a subconscious understanding of my own to
know that I behaved badly or that I was being
too harsh on her, and it was just kind of
coming to light in that way, so that, I mean,
it had to be in my subconscious somewhere. Well, I
think it's like, you don't judge anything that you don't
recognize in yourself. So I'm wondering, like, what in the
(37:59):
way that she lives. Do you most recognize about yourself?
Great question? You know what hearing you say, because I
didn't know the last part that you started to self
reflect and you didn't like that image. And that's probably
because Shan is very comfortable like not having people around
or just being in her element, and you're not. Like
there was a time where you didn't like being at
the house, especially by yourself. You didn't like being alone.
(38:21):
So you probably see things in Shanna you're now. Sean
is pretty social though, like me, and she's got kids
and she's in a different way. No, I think you're on.
I think you're a Yeah. I think it's something like wishful,
like you about yourself that's so extravagant, and like you're
always trying to fulfill something like you said in the
past about like these extreme activities, like you're always onto
the next thing, and it's just lately that you kind
of rain that in and like I don't have to
(38:43):
do that all the time. No. Well, because I read
that book Essentialism, which Jenny you should read too. I
think I sent it to you Dan right. Essentialism by
Greg McEwen. It's great. It's about just doing less better
and not doing everything poorly about you know, really focusing
on things. I'll drop off a cop But what you're
saying about shshana about out the activity like to create,
you know, the skiing and the you know, like whatever
(39:05):
I like to do kind of like extremist in a way,
like I like to go for it so hard is
And my psychiatrist told me, he's like, those are the
moments where you're present. Of course you love it because
that's the only time in your life you've been present.
When you're skiing down a mountain nine miles an hour,
you have to pay attention, and yeah, he goes, that's
why you feel the most alive. That's why you're so
(39:25):
drawn to those activities. If you can incorporate that into
your real life and be present in your real life
like that, you'll still feel the same thrills and rushes.
But you know, you have to be paying attention all
the time. So it's just another argument for being present
and for reminding myself. Oh, if I'm in the middle
of a conversation and i start thinking about something else,
or if I'm driving and I'm not thinking at all,
it's like, breathe, be present, you know, that's my issue mostly,
(39:49):
and I've really enjoyed learning how to do that because
it's kept. It's you know. Now I can read a
book without checking my phone every chapter. Even I just
read a book, Jenny that we're going to have to
send you. Dan gave me a book called Tampa. I'm
reading it right now. Are you by a lista nutting?
This is a very disturbing subject matter book, but it
(40:12):
is very well written and somehow very darkly funny. So
so you feel I feel really good about this recommendation,
do you? Yeah? I feel like, you know, because sometimes
it could be burdensome to give some of a book
it's like, oh fun you know, I got to read
this now, But clearly it worked. You liked it. I
thought it was funny and it aroused you. I wouldn't
(40:34):
say it aroused me, Dan, No, I would not say
it aroused me. But thank you for throwing that out there. Dan,
tell us a little bit where about where you are
in your life. Because Dan worked with me on my
shows for the last how many years? Eight before this
something like that, And then after we ended Chelsea, you
decided to go to school. I started volunteering at a
Counseling Center and liked it a lot. And now I'm
(41:00):
getting my masters and becoming amazing where and are you getting?
Like are you going to be? What are you going for?
An m f T isn't any Antioch? It is? Yeah,
I went to school. There are you kidding me? No?
I started getting my masters at Antioch. I loved it.
(41:22):
Are you gaffing people? Wait? Wait? Who were your professors?
Oh my god, I'd have to look on my papers.
I don't remember. I just remember the people that were
I was in class. Well, so did you graduate from there? No?
I got a movie and I left. Well, that was
the right thing to do. I had. You know, my
friend just made this movie. My friend just made this movie.
She always puts me in whatever she makes, and she
(41:44):
made this movie called Hustlers. It's coming out this this Friday.
And she wanted to put me in a scene j
Loo and Constance Wu and I couldn't do it because
I had class. The movie is like so huge right now,
and it's tracking so well. And and Dan, you are
(42:04):
such a great actor. Thanks, thank you. And you didn't
you didn't go do it. I'm surprised they would have
let you out. Yeah, it was so folks. I didn't
think it was a good idea. Wait, do you know
one of the teachers there. I'm just gonna do you
have the guy who Terry Terry something? He was one
of the Little Rock Five. I haven't had him yet. No,
Oh my god, it's one of the most incredible classes
(42:26):
I'd ever take. What's the what's the Little Rock Five?
So he was one of the one of the five
students that was bust into Little Rock. He's African American
and he was bust in to go to this all
white school when they were But you're watching, we're studying
it in class, right, we don't know until the very
end that he was one of those kids, Like he
(42:48):
doesn't reveal that. It was one of the most insane
classes I've ever taken. I might go to school at Antioch.
I would love that. Oh my god, I should just
go to that. I love Aunt anyway, because I want
to learn all out all that stuff. I'm so interested.
It's amazing. But classes on Freud everything is so great there.
They really do an amazing job. Well great, everybody seems
(43:10):
like they're growing up. So I guess I just I
guess the next step is discussing where we're going to
do it again and who else we're going to bring in.
Do you think Jason is ready to do it? Jenny? So,
you know, that's an interesting question because you know, he's sober,
and he still feels even though he knows that, you know,
I guess it has been used to treat addiction and whatnot.
(43:30):
I think he still has a little bit of trepidation
with just the whole being a drug thing, right right,
not that this is the kind of drug that's gonna
be like you know what I want to get now
a bag of cocaine and I want to go get
some hookers and go party. I mean, it's definitely not
that drug. But I don't know. Maybe for someone like Jason,
like you know, even like advoc cold and sinus could
(43:52):
be a gateway drug. Who knows. So what kind of
drugs are you using in your life now, Jenny? And
they do you use cannabis at all? You know? I
really lead, don't It makes me too paranoid? Really? And
I ate an edible. Before Jason's birthday last year, I
was in the sunken place. I couldn't get out. It
was like a three day trip well, that's you overdose.
(44:13):
You overdose. I just can't believe with micro dosing it
would be too much because you can get mints now,
like Petra has those two and a half milligram mints
that are just well. Brandon actually just said, you know what,
never mind, I'm waiting for your line to come out.
We're working and fine tuning everything because of the vaping crisis.
So I have to strip every all the chemicals out
of our vapes and make sure that they are still
(44:35):
smokable and effective because I don't want to put anything
out there that is going to cause any damage. And
there are so many chemicals in these things. So that's
what we're working on to Well, I'll be waiting. I'm ready.
It's good to be back together you guys. Jenny. It's
really annoying that you're not here. When are we going
to see you again? I'll be out there at the
beginning of October. Well, can you let me know this?
(44:56):
Oh I'm leaving. I go on tour in October to Australia.
Oh God, are you serious? I feel like you're missing.
So that's the impression I'm getting. Dan. Literally, let me
just tell you. Chelsea was here in town. We were
in front of the theater where she was about to perform.
I get a call from my sister in law who
tells me that they literally pulled the baby's arm out
(45:19):
of his socket. You know, I guess it's called nursemaid's elbow.
So it wasn't the arm of the elbow and we
had to leave. Terrible. His arm was in an electric socket. No,
the no, the socket. The elbow came out of the socket.
Oh my god, that sounds terrible. It's a quick fix, right,
was an elaborate excuse to get out of seeing Chelsea
(45:40):
that night. We really went for it. Well, you guys
went off and became parents, and now you're paying the price.
It's true, It's very true. Well, I love you. I
hope to see you. I hope to thank you. Thank you, Dan,
thank you, Jenny, thank you, Brandon, Thank you guys. Bye bye.
I okay, Well, this sounds like a good time to
(46:02):
take a break. Um, Dan, before we sign off, do
you want to say any parting words or do you
have anything you want to share with our listeners. I
think that the only thing I'm really interested in talking
about these days is the peloton. Oh yeah, that's right.
You've got a real peloton. I'm so so I have
a peloton now too. And everyone won't shut the funk
(46:24):
up about pelotons, which is so annoying. But when you
told me these are two things you made me do,
get a peloton, well, I think I had no tampa.
I read, and also to watch Succession because I had
started it and then I stopped it, and you convinced
me that I had to rewatch it and start again.
And I did start again last night, and you were right,
(46:47):
and everybody's right because the two things everybody keeps talking
about our succession and the peloton. And I want to
say to the people from Peloton, so annoying to hear
so many people talk about a bite and to take
Cody's class and to take Hannah's class. It's just like,
fuck off, fuck off. It's just it's like a cult.
(47:08):
So now I'm resisting it. And I you know, I
don't are you going to flex? What are you doing
with you? I could if you don't know. You listen,
think about the shaman, the shaman and the rainforest. That
guy's like not half the leader. That any of those
Pelton instructors are He's probably not wrong. Have you tried
(47:29):
the Pelton yet, Brandon? As my bell, she may have. Okay,
when I'm vulnerable and like in the middle of an effort,
I ironically am so inspired by these people. Yeah, and
I speaking of Cody, I think I think he's hilarious.
They'll say, get a sip of water, grab a towel,
and get your life together. It sounds pretty gay. He's
(47:51):
obviously gay. Yeah. I do think you should say, though,
that it is a good workout. You've mentioned why did
we Why do I have to say that? Well, because
for people who are interested in the Peltic, so it is.
And yeah, you know you're right, Brandon. I mean I
don't want to assail them. Obviously, people love it and
that's great. I just don't want to hear about it
so many times a day because I resist that. But
that's my own issue. Again, I've tried it several times.
(48:12):
I've tried to take Cody's class. I tried Hannah, and
I tried somebody else and I cannot get past ten.
Matt Wilper's okay, and Dennis is the guy that and Dennis,
so I'm gonna keep going at it. But you know.
I think maybe I'm just going to have to acclimate
and take some slower classes or just do the scenic rides.
The only issue with some of the scenic rides is
that you're riding over things that don't have a bike path.
(48:34):
So they take you over mountain ranges, like you're riding
your bike up a mountain and there's and then you
increase the resistance so that there's no path. There's no path,
there's I mean, I'm just like, you know what, I
can't speak to it. I'm not riding on rocks. It
doesn't make sense. Sometimes I'm riding my bike over water
like there's it's not the right. Anyone who's listening must
know what I'm talking about. And if you don't, please
(48:56):
don't contact me. And if you do, please don't content. Okay,
So I have added some stand up dates. I am
coming to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Vancouver, Milwaukee, Indianapolis,
Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Toronto. We just
added a second show there and we are adding other
second shows if your market is sold out. I'm also
(49:19):
coming to Sydney, Australia on October five. I believe I'm
coming to Brisbane, I'm coming to Melbourne, and then I'm
going to Auckland, New Zealand. You can go to my
accountable page for information on social activism, or you can
go to Emily's List and follow them because I have
(49:39):
partnered with Emily's List to raise awareness for all the
female candidates that they are backing, and they're all progressive women.
So if you're interested in doing that, you can follow
all of those places. And there's also a Facebook group
that I've started called The Orange Room, which is a
private group and you have to, I guess to get
(50:01):
in the group, you have to mention something from the
book that you've read. This is a support group for
anybody dealing with trauma or loss or grief, and it
is really just like a really beautiful space and I've
been really moved. I hop on there and send messages
and respond to people, and everybody else is really supportive
of each other on there as well. And my new
(50:24):
documentary is out tomorrow night on Netflix. It's called Hello Privilege.
It's me Chelsea. Yes. It premiers midnight on Netflix and
you can find me on Instagram or Twitter. Brandon. Everyone
keeps asking me on my d M s on Instagram
about your Instagram. No, we should just get this clear.
I have no social media, I don't care about it,
(50:46):
and we're going to keep it that way. I think
that's the right decision. I didn't make it for him,
just in case you're wondering. My Bell, on the other hand,
has to make her account private. She's got a lot
of fans. Almost two Okay, good Night Life will be
the Death of Me as a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from i heeart Radio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(51:09):
favorite shows.
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