So Gay For You with Leisha Hailey & Kate Moennig

The L Word’s Kate Moennig and Leisha Hailey are here to talk about their new memoir documenting their groundbreaking show, why the L Word was made for the female gaze, and the truth about whether or not the two of them hooked up.  Then: A crush distracts and Alabaman from what could be her true love.  A lover’s ex won’t stop posting about them on tiktok.  And is lesbian bed death just a myth?

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Order Kate & Leisha’s book here!

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Chelsea, how are you. How's Europe?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, Catherine, Oh my god, I am I honestly, first
of all, I don't even know where to begin. I
just walked I think twenty seven thousand steps. We're in
Edinburgh today. My cousin's here, Molly, as you know. Mollie.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yes, her husband has crashed our party with their four
year old, and I split off with them after her
four year old said Mommy for the seven hundredth time
in under one hour.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I was like, you really are patient, and it's not
enough to walk twenty steps ahead of you. I need
to go listen to a political podcast while I walk home.
But I honestly feel like one of my hips, like
I got this great SI belt thing because my s
I joint always pops out. When I was skiing all winter.
It was kind of annoying me. So it's been amazing.
So anyone who's listening who has SI problems, like where

(00:54):
your hip kind of pops out, you got to get
one of these belts because it keeps everything in place.
I don't want to really be promoting Amazon, but I
did order it on Amazon, and when I say I
ordered it, somebody else ordered it for me. So I
want to be very transparent about everything I say. But
we're having the best time in Europe. We've had the
most amazing shows. It's been so wonderful to be able

(01:15):
to apologize on behalf of our administration.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
And just America as a whole, and.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Really convey my apologies to our former allies. We have
hit the ground running in every city. Every time we land,
they say it's going to be raining, and then we
land and the sun is out. It happens everywhere. Rekuvic, Paris.
We had two days in Paris. We had an amazing
time in Amsterdam. Stockholm was absolutely gorgeous, Oslo, then we

(01:45):
went to Belfast. We were in Belfast with sunny. Yamanika
was in Belfast with us, so they didn't know what
the fuck hit them. London, London was incredible. We were
in Glasgow two nights ago. So today is the day off.
In Edinburgh, we had yes starting off and then I
think tomorrow we go to Zurich. All right, So it's
been absolutely wonderful. The crowds are amazing. I'm just I

(02:09):
really feel so happy to be here and to be
spreading like you know, the vibes.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I'm so glad, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
How are you.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'm great, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
I've just had a couple weeks of like a little
bit of downtime, had some barbecues.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's been really really nice, so very relaxing.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. We've had some incredible food here,
incredible food everywhere. And Edinburgh is like one of the
most beautiful cities in the world. I hadn't been here
for like thirty years. I came with one of my
boyfriends when I was like twenty years old, and it
is so old and so preserved, and they don't have
high rises, and it's not gross with all the stores.

(02:48):
I mean they have sections of like you know, Gucci
and Fendi and all that, which is fine, but they
don't it's just beautiful and the cobblestone streets and the
castles everywhere, and it's just been gorgeous here. So we
went on a long, long walk today and I had
a big blood blister when I came home, so that
was really satisfying to pop. And then I am going

(03:09):
to take a Xanax tonight and prepare for I'm taking
the day off of drinking, even though I already had
a drink at lunch, taking the night off of drinking
because I need to have a clear head since tomorrow
night I have a show, and I'm just really grateful.
I'm just I'm reading great books.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Yeah, oh, we got to do a Minnesota book ground up. Well,
if there's anything what you'll mention right now.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
There's a really good book. This isn't a new book
that's out, but I just read it. It's called Red
Notice by Bill Browder and it's all about Russia. And
he's this big finance investment guy who started investing in
Russia after they it changed from communism to quote unquote
capitalism and they privatized everything and it's a fascinating rate.
So of course, you know, I sent that to my
half of my family. I'm like, here's the country you defend.

(03:55):
And then I got that book The Emperor of Gladness.
Oh sho did you hear about this book?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
I don't know this one.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
It's heavy.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I know her, but I haven't read that book.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, this is just came out and this is supposed
to be great. And then I read Morality by Jonathan Sacks.
We'll go over all of that. I just wanted to
remember what morality was in these times anyway, So everything's great.
Doug is living up a storm in Canada. He's going
from house to house to house. People are there's a

(04:26):
waiting list to hang out with him. So and I
won't see him until I do my show in Vegas
on July fifth, So that's when I come back to America.
July fifth, everybody, I'll be in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Awesome. What other dates do you have coming up in
Europe for the next week or two?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Everything in Europe is sold out, so oh, no, Barcelona
I think has tickets. Barcelona, I believe is June second,
So if you're yeah, Barcelona has tickets, but everything else
is sold out. And I didn't want to add any
second shows because I have I'd have to do them
the same night, and I'm like, I just can't. I
can't do two shows in a night when.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't have to totally.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
So I'll have to come back sooner than later because
I've just been having the best time here and I'm
just so grateful. That's the word of the day is gratitude.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Well, listen, you're bringing joy and apparently literal sunshine to
every city who go to So that's great.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
I know, my cousin keeps going every morning. Molly goes, oh,
my god, can you believe we keep changing the weather.
It's supposed to rain, and we keep changing the weather.
And I wanted to go it's not you, it's me,
because I've been doing this since I was born. And
we were on the phone. We were on the phone
with my sister. We're going to Greece in a couple
of weeks for my sister's big birthday, like twelve of
us of the girls in the family, and my sister goes, well,

(05:36):
if Chelsea's coming, we're gonna have sunshine. Molly goes, oh,
everywhere we go there's been sunshine, and they've been it's
been forecasting rain and everywhere we go sunshine and she goes, oh, yeah,
Chelsea always brings the good weather. And Molly's like, no,
I thought it was me, And I was like, well,
I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but it really
has enough in.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Its very Molly. Sorry, Molly. And you know what, if
you can't get tickets.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
To Chelsea's sold out shows in Europe, you can check
out her special.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Oh yes, you could check out my special The Feeling,
which is so funny all these European people are like,
we didn't want to watch your Feeling because we thought
it was going to be the same material as what
you're doing. Now I'm like, no, no, no, I have
a whole new hour, bitches, I'm ready to rumble. Excellent,
I have a whole new hour about not vacationing with
your family. Okay, So today's episode we have well, you know,
our guests from The l Word and their podcast Pants.

(06:26):
They have co written a new memoir and it's called
So Gay for You, which I read, which is delightful,
and it's all about their experiences on the show and
be on the show. Please welcome to Captain Lesbians, Lesha
Haley and Kate Mennig. Congrats on the book, you ladies.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, how excited, Thank you very much. Yeah wild, I know, yeah,
I never thought.

Speaker 5 (06:49):
This would happen. Really yeah, this was never on my
bucket list.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
But let us talk about it' k happening. So welcome
to the podcast.

Speaker 6 (06:55):
Thanks thanks for having us.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Very excited about your new book, So Gay for You.
I was reading this on a plane and then I
and then and the gay flight attendant.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
It was mail.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
He was like, m hmmm, and I'm like, uh huh,
And I'm like I had no idea what he was
talking about. And then when I put when I finished
it and closed it, I was like, oh, I see what.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
He's talking about.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, I love this cover of the two of you?
And what took you so long to write a book
about how you met? How like how the show started?
What took you so long?

Speaker 8 (07:30):
I mean, we're like a couple of dumb dumb actors,
no one ever, like, we never thought we could do this,
and then the.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Opportunity got brought up to us and we thought, sure,
why not.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, you seem like you don't think you can do
much of anything because like what's of you?

Speaker 6 (07:46):
It's like self esteem issues. That's really funny. That's your takeaway.

Speaker 5 (07:50):
You always yeah, it's true. You always say that the
dumb dumbs. But we never thought well writing. I mean listen, well.

Speaker 8 (07:56):
We barely graduated and and we didn't go to college,
graduated high school and I didn't go to college and
I just wrote my seventh books.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
So that is not a barrier. I'm not anul.

Speaker 6 (08:05):
What I think of you and I go, oh, she's.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Really I love it. I hope my sisters are listening. No,
in the book you talk about you tried to turn
down this role. Yeah, so you didn't think you could
do that. You were in a band. You're still in
a band, but you were in a different band then, right,
And you got the offer for the role, turned it
down one, two, three times? Three times?

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Was no?

Speaker 6 (08:30):
Three?

Speaker 8 (08:30):
Yeah, I that I didn't turn it down because I
didn't think I could do it. It's because I was
in like a codependent band relationship and I was like,
I'm going to leave my band mate and ruin her
life and go I don't know, it just felt wrong.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Right, Well, that's wrong. You know, that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 6 (08:47):
I know.

Speaker 8 (08:47):
I it was a choice I was about to make
that would have changed my life forever.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Right.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
I think you had a friend who like saved you
from that bad decision, right, Yes, like total do it,
you gotta do it?

Speaker 8 (08:58):
Yeah, And no, well to like Heather, who is my bandmate.
We just we were in something that we were like,
we're going to do this forever. You know, when you're
that young, you're like, yeah, have you ever been in that.

Speaker 6 (09:08):
Where you're in a.

Speaker 8 (09:10):
Working relationship with someone that you're like, this is for
the rest of our lives.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
I mean I feel like that almost about any relationship, right,
Like when things are going well, you're like, we'll be
together forever. Yeah, but the reality of that actually coming
to fruition is like no, I know, you know, their
breakups and all the time, and then there's creative evolution,
so you move on to other things and other outlets,
and then you're like, oh, okay, well obviously you can't
work with everybody. It's a great idea, but it's kind

(09:36):
of like a marriage, which is you know why those
typically don't work. Yeah, okay, So let's start at the beginning.
So you guys open this book with your with your
auditions for the Elk. Yes, and so what year was this?
Do we remember to?

Speaker 5 (09:51):
June two thousand and two.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
June two thousand and two, okay, so that's like twenty
twenty something. It was a long time ago. Yeah, yes,
And you met each you saw each other, yeah, yeah
at the audition because you were auditioning for the same
role originally.

Speaker 5 (10:05):
Yeah. We Yeah. I was told my manager said there's
only one other person who's going to be reading for
this part, and I said okay, because it was a specific.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Kind of and you came out from I flew out
from New York.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
Because I was on the East coast then. And my
manager is like, I can do some digging find out
who it is. And I said, no, no, no, no no.
I was like, let me just go there. This is
pressurrey enough. And I walk in and I saw the
back of her head and her hair was like whisping
out in the back.

Speaker 6 (10:31):
Well you remember this, Lek, Yes, it was.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
You know what I'm saying. It's like we had a
lot of layers. Yeah, we had layers in the whole thing.
And compared to every other actor out there playing reading
for another role who had long hair, I just saw
the back of her head and I thought that's it.
And then that's it. I was like, that's her, that's it.
I was like, that's that's that's my competition. And so
they ushered actors reading for another role to the one side.

(10:58):
We went off to the other side and and we
just sat in an echo week quiet hallway for about
forty five minutes, just kind of nodding and smiling at
each other, trying to be polite.

Speaker 8 (11:06):
And a lot of people find this hard to believe
that I was up for the role that Kate ended
up getting because it's like this sexual lithario like but
I think it might have just been my like funky hair.
I don't know why I was up for this role,
but I had there was something about me. But there
was no way in hell. There was no way in
hell I was meant for that part right right, like

(11:28):
it was Kate's.

Speaker 5 (11:29):
Yeah, of course, but I didn't know that. I thought, oh,
she's got this in the.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Bag because you have the comb right.

Speaker 8 (11:34):
I had to come because like the fawns.

Speaker 5 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, she showed up with the prop and I
thought that's it. I was like, that's the secret to
this whole thing. And I never thought of doing that.
And I slept all the way out here from the
other coast and it's over before it even started, Like
I thought I was done auditioning.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Fucking sucks.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
It's horrible.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, it is really one of the most I think.
I mean, that's what turned me off of acting. When
I got out here. Thank goodness I could do other
things because I was like, I don't know how I'm
going to nail this. Yeah, it's so unnatural. What an
unnatural environment and it's degrading and you know, you're sitting
there like cattle waiting outside a room and then going
in and everyone's competing that that energy is so bad

(12:16):
for the soul.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
Yeah, trying to not compeding, but you all know.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
And then you get and then you get called into
the room and it's whatever the circumstances that you're meant
to be reading for, it's just it's always going to
be unnatural. But you have to somehow make it look like,
oh no, this is completely normal, and like we're in
this intimate experience and we're not.

Speaker 6 (12:34):
And now we don't even do that anymore.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
No, now we go on zooms and we control it
or still better, yeah, better, but it's that has its
own set of problems.

Speaker 8 (12:42):
But yeah, I want to hear about your like your
audition process or what you were.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Well. Let me, I once auditioned for a Nike commercial.
I mean this wasn't a serious thing obviously, but I
have tons of audition stories. But at some point, at
a certain point, I.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Was like, rshoals, that's that was your thing.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
No, I never was my thing. I never booked one.
But I once auditioned for a Nike commercial and they
had me and I had to wear short shorts. So
I remember getting up in the morning in Santa Monica
and I ran six miles so that my legs were like,
you know, like like a throbbing penis, basically like they
were at peak muscle, like you know, you know, after
a run was when they're like the strongest. And I

(13:19):
was young. I was like in my twenties. And then
I got it and they were like, okay, you know,
this is a dance commercial, so just like do whatever,
you know, just dance. And I cannot dance. I have
no rhythm, I can't sing, and I can't dance. Anyone
who sees me dance it's like, oh wow, but I'm
now I'm met like I'm fifty. So I'm like, fuck it,
who cares if I'm a bad dancer. I've already proven

(13:41):
that I'm good at other things, not dancing. But that's
not going to stop me. You know, I'll just take
whatever drugs I need to get me on the dance floor.
And I remember in the moment, not knowing that I
had to dance, and them telling me, and it was
a bunch of Asian people and that were and I
just basically blacked out, like I blacked out and just

(14:02):
started running and doing aerobics and just whatever the most
humiliating version of that could have been was what I did.
And I didn't look anyone in the eye. I just
kept spinning around. I was doing it. At one point
I did a jumping jack and then I was like
two stepping, and then I ran in certain directions, but
that there was a wall, and all I remember is

(14:23):
when is this going to be over? When is this
going to be over? And I remember just running out
the door. I said thank you, goodbye, ran out the door,
and I called my agent and I was like, I
don't want to audition for commercials anymore, and I know dancing.
And after that I stopped auditioning for commercials because I
was like, this is too sure. I can't do. I
can't subject myself to this kind of shame, Like I'm
too confident of a person. This will ruin me. And

(14:45):
it wasn't long after that that I stopped auditioning for
television stuff too, Like if it was an auditioned situation,
I'm like, that's not my strong suit. You have to
audition so many times to be good at it, except
in your case, you weren't auditioning a lot to be
good at it. You just nailed it.

Speaker 8 (15:01):
Well, yeah, I guess it was meant to be. But
I've since that role, I've never really booked much of anything.

Speaker 7 (15:08):
Like.

Speaker 8 (15:08):
That's the funny thing about my stories, Like I got
this like iconic show, but have like failed as an
actress ever since. Really yeah yeah, Like and then the
reboot happened again and I was like, Okay, I'm back
to play this part again, and then crickets again. It's
really and I've made peace with it. I'm like, I
guess that's what I was supposed to do.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
Or I can't do. I don't know what it is,
but it's it's wild.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
You may count thanks. That is wild.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, that is frustrating. Also, it must have been
really frustrating for until you made peace with it.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (15:40):
I mean when the show ended, I thought, Okay, great,
I'm gonna go on to do I mean I did
do it.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
Lisha did a thing where when we the show ended,
the original show ended, Lisha had a band and she said,
I'm going to go off touring. Yeah, the band And
whenever anytime you're you're coming off a long running show,
everyone not everyone, but sort of this unspoken thing where
people realize, oh, you have like a to kind of
see where you can take that influence and maybe directed

(16:06):
into a different into another job, right, And that's when
you took off.

Speaker 6 (16:09):
And yeah, and everyone else went on to do so
other things.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
Everyone else was like trying to utilize that little momentum.
We had to say, Oh, let's see if it's just good.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
How many years was the l word on?

Speaker 8 (16:17):
It was six season, six seasons the original was six
and three in the.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Reboot and three in the reboot. And did you direct
one of the episodes from the reboot?

Speaker 8 (16:25):
Yeah, yeah, which something always wanted to do. But yeah,
it's the life of an actor kind.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
Of, it's not. It's not for the faint at heart.
And now it's shifted in a completely different way that.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
How do you think it's shifted now?

Speaker 5 (16:39):
Well, for one, you can't get into rooms anymore, so
everything's just based on your zoom audition, so there's never
any feedback. And because there's so many mergers and all
these companies are either forming or breaking apart, it's it's
nothing is safe. I think part of the reason why
why our reboot got canceled is because of a merger,
and you just even when a project seems like it's

(17:01):
going to be great, well well maybe not because either
our company is going to fold into another one or
that's no longer the direction, or a new president is
coming in, and it's just this nothing settled yet.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, it's so weird. It's like there's so much money
in entertainment and there's so many platforms now, yet there
seems to be like a contraction happening, you know, severe contraction,
and it doesn't really add up because all the money's
at the top, you know, they don't want to distribute
it down like evenly to anyone. So it's just like greedy, greedy, greedy.
I guess it's a reflection of what's happening in Washington, really,

(17:33):
you know, it's kind of the same thing. It's like
people are so greedy they don't want to pay. But
so talk let's talk about the experience of being on
the L word. What that meant to you, because it
was really the only show about lesbians and such a
huge success on Showtime.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Right, did you ever see it?

Speaker 7 (17:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Of course, of course.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
And you don't think only lesbians watched it?

Speaker 5 (17:55):
No, Actually, for fact, a lot of straight women.

Speaker 8 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, they really identified with the friendships.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
I think, yes, yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk
about the French. It's so funny because with heterosexual people
like it's I just had this conversation the other day,
like I think, or maybe it was somebody who called
into the podcast. We were talking about like you wouldn't
be talking about these feelings if it wasn't a straight
man and you were a straight woman. And they were
both like you know, in other relationships, and they were

(18:23):
talking about their friendship and if there were feelings, and
it's like, oh, you can have male friends without having
sexual feelings. But at the inception of meeting every man
and woman when there's a HEATERO, when they're both heterosexual,
there's always the glance over of like what I fuck you? Yeah?
Am I attracted to you? Do I find you attractive?

(18:43):
Like that's the first thing that comes to your mind?
And because of how we've all been trained, you know,
like and this, but with lesbians and friendships, I want
to explore that more and talk about that because that
was depicted on the show so well, well we.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
Will assume that like if your friends, you're.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
Obviously going to be sleeping.

Speaker 6 (19:02):
It's the same thing.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
Like everyone shocked that Lisha and I have never crossed
that line because it's such a rarity, actually because a
lot of it's I do. I think kind I do. Yeah,
It's normal for like two women to like be together
at one point, break up, and then ten years down
the line they're best friends, like to the point where
they're family. You and I we never know.

Speaker 6 (19:24):
Never, we never crossed, and we never wanted to.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Never.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
It never would bring to either one of us.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
No, that would just be unnatural.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I find when lesbian, all of my lesbian friends, when
one of them breaks up, like six of them break up.
It happens in seasons, like so when they break up
with a partner, a long term partner is domino. It's
a domino effects.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right now I'm experiencing three sets of lesbian couples that
are breaking up.

Speaker 6 (19:48):
I have major relationships.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
You're like, I've never I'm going to pay attention to that.
I've never noticed it.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
I know, it's very strange. I mean, I think that's
the advantage of being a straight person and being so
immersed in lesbian in world. I have so many lesbians
in my life, so I get the best of both worlds.
I assume at some point I will transition into being
a full blown lesbian just because the writing is on
the wall there. So I guess they're just waiting for
me to come over.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Yeah, you'd be welcome to your open arms, of course.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
So what was the experience like of being able to
depict that in a truthful, healthy way, like what like
sharing that experience together?

Speaker 5 (20:29):
Well, it's interesting because I think the perception outside of
our show is that it was so it was only
designed for the male gaze, and that was a lot
of critique we always heard. And Yeah, everyone thought, oh,
it's only for straight men to get off on into
like and it's clearly being directed.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Why is every everything's for to serve up to straight man?

Speaker 5 (20:47):
Precisely? And the irony is that the whole show was
run by women and and written by Yeah, and so
it actually had like you said this before, and it's
true that like women can sexualize each other as well.
It wasn't just objectified and objectify each other. It's not
just for men. And so that was sort of a
disconnect that we on the show always thought, there's that's

(21:09):
so off base actually to what's really going on here?

Speaker 8 (21:12):
M hmm.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I mean if you guys had a male creator and
a male director, I mean, can you imagine the ship
you would have gotten. Well, maybe we would have been
fine actually because people wouldn't have called it out right.

Speaker 8 (21:24):
We did have male directors and they were all great,
like everyone took it really seriously, like everyone felt the
pressure to get it right.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
I was like, okay, this.

Speaker 5 (21:31):
Is like all the male directors were always saying, is
this right? Is okay? Like I don't want to make you,
I don't want to push it or anything, and so
they always they've always left it up to us to decide, oh,
you're like pushing the boundary. And they'd listen. If we
had extreme critique to an idea they had, they go okay, fine, yeah.

Speaker 8 (21:47):
And it was way before intimacy coordinators, which are like
now it's like it's a whole thing now.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
But I mean we're gonna have.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Intimacy coordinators in our real lives that.

Speaker 6 (21:57):
Come on right now.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
I mean, like, I mean that's how serious intimacy coordinators
have gotten.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
You know.

Speaker 8 (22:03):
Back then, we were just like we would work it
out with each other, with the director, like it was
all just like.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
I was always on the day. It was like we'd
be on set and we'd say, all right, let's figure
this out.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
How are we going to do how are we going
to do this?

Speaker 8 (22:14):
Yeah, But to answer your question earlier, like because I
was out and like I was like the only gay
one at the time, even though.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, you were still dating men right when the show started.

Speaker 5 (22:24):
Not really No, like I had, I had dated guys,
but I wasn't. I don't think I was dating anyone
when that show started.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
Had just broken up.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
But maybe I just stopped like dating some guy, but
I was sort of it was nothing serious serious when
I got up to Canada. But go ahead, that's right, Canada, Canada.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, but we're all going back there, so yes,
I'm slowly transitioning into Canada permanently before they become the
fifty first state. Anyway, Oh my god, let's not talk
about that. Let's keep things happening.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
Yes, back to Pussy Yeah, No, I I like I
felt this responsibility to represent our community correctly. But I
didn't even know the impact the show is going to have.
Like I thought it was going to be this really
underground in the TV show that what everybody.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
Saw, but everybody wanted to get it. Yes, we had
an we had a we had a sexpert show up
during the pilot with a big binder talking about like
talking about sex toys and.

Speaker 6 (23:27):
How like a toolbox and all these and all these.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah, all of these, like all these all these apparatuses
to be like, okay, so here are all the options one has.
And everyone was sitting there like, oh okay, okay, and like
there was a whole seminar about it. So everyone had
a really clear agenda. No one wanted to fuck it up.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, I don't know. I think we all. I thought
you were going to continue, okay, but with the with
the recognition, I mean, I'm sure here in town, right,
obviously you were being people were approaching you all the time.
Oh they weren't.

Speaker 5 (24:02):
No, really, you know way, No, we were in Canada.
No one cared about us. Oh we lived in Canada
for like nine months.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Oh oh I'm sorry, I'm I'm but so you weren't
living in La at all.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
No, we weren't doing hiatus, but no one when we
got home. I don't think anyone really seemed to care
that much. Really, Yeah, unless you went to a gay bar,
it was. That was a different story. It was different
wandering down the street.

Speaker 8 (24:28):
Yeah, it was kind of like a like an insular
fame like it was.

Speaker 5 (24:32):
It was very you know totally.

Speaker 8 (24:36):
It was very big in the gay community. But like
if you go to like Ralph's Supermarket, you're fine.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
Yeah, like Perez Hilton wasn't didn't care about us whatever,
you know, he didn't care.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
When is Perez Hilton going to go away?

Speaker 6 (24:47):
Question?

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Thought the most repugnant. I mean, honestly, he didn't. Didn't
he go He went away, but he's back. I mean,
but he's in the ether and every once in a
while he pops up on my with them. I'm like,
this guy is like, what are those lizards? Lizards that
just can recreate and you cut their tail off and
then they come back and they grow. I mean, talk

(25:08):
about toxic, talk about negative. Oh my god, he's the worst. Anyway,
that's a sidebar. Okay. So after the show ended, when
when it did end and you went on tour? Where
did you go on tour? I?

Speaker 8 (25:20):
Yeah, all all around the world. It was really fun.
I had a fan yeah called uhhh hear. And it
was a blast and I loved doing it and I
felt really like at home in a band. So that
was great, and I did, yeah, I just didn't concentrate
on getting another show. And like Kate went off to.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Do, I played a doctor and you played.

Speaker 8 (25:40):
A doctor and then you run Ray Donovan forever? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
And so how did how do your other acting experiences
compared to being on The L Word?

Speaker 5 (25:48):
It was like night and day, really completely well. I
went from our show, which was on cable where you
could get away with anything, to network television where you
couldn't get away with with a single thing, and so
it was very controlled. I don't think they knew what
really to do with me necessarily. I didn't have that
kind of look that would cater to their audience, and

(26:09):
so I was sort of shoved off to the side
a bit.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
And do you think you but do you think you
got that job because of the L Word?

Speaker 5 (26:15):
I think I got that job because of a producer
named Curtis Hansen who fought for me. I don't think
I got that job because CBS was like, yeah, let's
get her. Absolutely not. And that was a very short
lived job, and then I luckily landed on Ray Donovan
that just kept going and going, and going, And that
was back on showtime, so at least I didn't have
to prove myself right, So I shut up and I

(26:36):
was like, you guys know me, you know what I
can do. So I felt more at home there than
I did on mainstream.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, that's interesting, I mean not surprising. You know, mainstream
television is just like such a cudgel. It's just so
it's first of all, getting notes from a network. Well
that was the thing, so obtrusive. It's like you're not
a creator at all. Like the whole system seems like
it needs to be broken.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Yeah it was, Yeah, it was. Everyone gave notes, and
assistance of people gave notes. There's always notes getting thrown around.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And sometimes the note giving is just like an exercise
of giving notes. They're just pretending to be doing a job, right, Yeah,
because they have to give you They can't be like
we have no notes.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Oh yeah, and they have to justify their existence precisely.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
Yeah, it's yeah.

Speaker 8 (27:21):
Don't they like catchphrases like easter egg or you know,
like they have things.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
No, it's more like can you not. Oh it's it's
it varies. I mean it can go from like appeerence
down to how you're delivering a line. God only knows,
but it gets to a point where you have to say,
I'm not no, stop, like I'm not doing it, and
what you're not doing it? It's like, I'm not doing it.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
Yeah, I'm not trying great at that.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
That's good.

Speaker 6 (27:42):
She's always good at the nose.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's nice.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
I've been. Yeah, it's been like a lifelong like since
we've known each other for what like twenties, a long time,
and I've been trying to teach other word no from
day one.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I can see. I can see that from reading
your book, that you guys that you're good at no
and you're.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Not Yeah, like I know, is a complete sentence.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Absolutely, I love it. I mean even I've had to
learn how to say no and people would be surprised
to hear it.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
I am surprised right now. Yeah you really?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, absolutely, because I want to. I want to I
want to be generous with my time, and you get
confused about what that means. You know what I mean,
Generosity with your time doesn't necessarily mean saying yes to everything.
You can be generous and also say no. So that
took a long time to understand because I yeah, And
I wanted to be one of those people who you

(28:30):
could rely on to do anything like the out. I'll
do that, don't worry, I'll deal with that.

Speaker 6 (28:35):
You know, you can handle it.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
I can handle it. And then you realize you're just
subscribing to being in the boys club. And then you're like, wait, wait, wait,
I'm catering to men right now. I actually want to
be catering to women less men. So it's like that.
I had to go through that a little bit, uh
not a little bit, a lot, but I yeah, I
understood it, recognized it, and then fixed it. Was there
like an episode to you that really was more meaningful

(28:56):
than any of the others.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
An episode world, oh.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
God, meaningful. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I found to you it was so long.

Speaker 8 (29:07):
It was soap opera too, like let's not like over
you know, I mean, it was silly, and maybe the overall,
maybe the overall series how to yeah, more meaning than
each individual.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Some of it.

Speaker 8 (29:20):
I think it like broke down barriers. I think it
opened eyes, like it showed people not just one character
like you always see like one lesbian or like one
lesbi or they die or they're coming out. It's always
a coming out story, but this was like, no, we're
like functioning women in the world. We have careers, we
have friendships, we have relationships, like that's what it did

(29:41):
it and we like to yeah, and there's that, you know,
and it's like, I don't know, it just was this
well rounded.

Speaker 5 (29:48):
It's hard to think. It's hard to think of one
episode because my memories.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
No, I can understand that. It's so interesting when you
look at especially in our industry, there are so many
women that become late in life lesbians. Yeah, are so
many women who get divorced and they're like, I'm done
with this, I'm done with men, and then they're lesbians.
And it's like it's almost I don't know, if it's
a sign of the times that we live in where
men have just outworn you know, they're welcome and everyone,

(30:14):
all of their secrets have been exposed and we're just
done with it, or if this happens in every generation
you know, where they're where a woman is fifty or
forties and fifties and starts going, you know what, I
don't want to be with men anymore.

Speaker 6 (30:25):
Yeah, I don't have to. I have choices, like do.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
You think that happens during every generation, even I mean
it's all come.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
Around, It's always been around, but now there's gay people
are new. But there's less there's a less binary way
of looking at everything. So, you know, I look at
how teenagers look at themselves and they say I'm open
to anything, and that's translating into people our age, and
I think that's wonderful. So it's there's not so much fear,
and it's just you can be whoever you are and

(30:53):
you don't have to label it and who you love
is who you love And that sounds like a super
cheesy motto, but it's true. And I think the less
labeling is I think helping people accept who they are more.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, I decided. I was at a I got a
mammogram the other day and they were asking like ethnicity,
and I was like, I'm not answering these questions anymore.
You know what, it's outdated. You have to update your forum.
It doesn't matter if I'm married or not. It doesn't
matter if I'm white or Asian or Caucasian or you know.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
I was at the doctor the other day, where are
these Yeah, there was a line that said, what is
the gender of the head of your.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Household And I was like, what, like what what like?

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah, yeah, unnecessary, completely unnecessary.

Speaker 8 (31:42):
Kind of doctor a GP, just like I had an
eye doctor.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
I went to an eye doctor and I was asked
something about my ethnicity, and I was like, what difference
does it make? And I looked at him and he's like, sorry,
it's on the form, and I was like why.

Speaker 6 (31:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Don't you think that the political environment we're living in
is a direct reflection of the fact that most people
are coming to terms, not most people, but the majority
of educated people are coming to terms with the fact
that all of this is such a nonsense, All of
these labels are such nonsense. Like it is the death
cough of white supremacy. I don't know if we'll experience

(32:16):
the end of it, but it's definitely the last stages
of it, and that could be another one hundred and
fifty years. I don't know. But it's the old white
man's reaction to women going no, no, no, we don't need labels. Yeah, boys,
we might like girls, we might like both, we might
like nothing like, you know, they're not willing to accept that.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
It certainly adds to the fear that they're no longer
in power.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, I got this great book, this friend, I'm going
to do this when we do our book round up.
My friend, my makeup artists in New York, gave it
to me and she was going over all these women
in history, you know, who've gone unnoticed, and all these painters,
and that there was a period in the sixteen hundreds
where there was this explosion of female talent, and by explosion,
there were like thirteen really well known painters in Paris

(33:02):
during that period of time where all these painters were
coming up, and there were thirteen of them, and they
were in history books in the sixteen hundreds, and then
when you get past eighteen hundred, they're gone. There's complete
erasure of them because men were so threatened by the
few that got in and the successes that they reached,
which were beyond the reaches of the men, that they decided, Okay,

(33:23):
we're going to take their work and claim it as
our own. And women are no longer allowed to paint.

Speaker 8 (33:27):
Isn't that the same with Hollywood? Women directors they directed
everything at the beginning of Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
Yeah, yeah, right, that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, And so I mean that's not a new information.
But it's nice to It's so funny how threatened they
are by us, Yet we're not that threatened by them?

Speaker 5 (33:43):
Right, How women have been the animated them since the
beginning of time? Right?

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Why are you so threatened by us? Because we're not
threatened by you. So we'll threaten you. Yeah, we'll threaten
your bodies. We'll threaten, yes, your rights because yeah. So
it's nice to know this has been going on for No,
we'll take a break and we'll be right back with
Lesha Haley and Kate Manigg.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write into us at
Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. We'd love to
hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on,
but this week we're specifically looking for questions about family issues.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
If you have an issue with a family member, or
you need.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
Advice about a specific relationship issue, please write in at
Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
And we're back with Leisha Haley and Kate Manigg. Okay,
what do we got today?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Many question?

Speaker 5 (34:38):
So many? We did this on our podcast. Yes, awesome, st.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Well, this first one is just a write in. We
do have a couple of callers.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
So we'll spend a little time with this one, but
then we'll move on to our callers. So this one
is from Lola. She's not joining us, she says, Dear Chelsea.
I've been in a relationship with my partner, Bridget for
two and a half years, and her ex girlfriend, Samantha
just never goes away. When we started dating, I knew
things were complicated with her ex, but it was impossible
to comprehend how the situation would impact me in the future.

(35:08):
My partner, Bridget, was in a three and a half
year relationship with Samantha, who is her sister's best friend
and coworker.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
Wait, I need such need this has gotten a little
bit of a check.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
So the writer her partner, the ex is the partner's
sister's best friend slash coworker.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
The ex is the partner's.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Sister's best friend.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah, so it's like if I'm if I'm the girlfriend,
it's my sister's best friend.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
So like kind of around like in the family.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
YEA.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
Samantha is also a single mom. This is the X
to a ten year old daughter. She was three to
four years old when they started dating. My partner has
a close relationship with her daughter, and this is something
I've always tried to support, as the child has nothing
to do with me or their breakup.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Or does it.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
FaceTime, and it's a little awkward for me. Though I
find her commitment to her ex's child admirable, I do
struggle with this, not because she's spending time with the child,
but because Samantha is still deeply in love with my partner.
At the beginning of our relationship, she would call, text
and FaceTime multiple times a week. I always found it
to be weird, but it started making me uncomfortable when
she began to ask my partner to give her another chance,

(36:17):
professing her feelings for her. Bridget ended up blocking her
for over a year. I know this is immature of me,
but within the last year something told me to check
out Samantha's social media and what I saw was bizarre,
and if I'm honest, I feel a little embarrassed for her.
She regularly makes tiktoks about my partner where she's professing
her love for her, saying that she's her soulmate and
that she'll do anything to get her back. Though I

(36:39):
find it sad and embarrassing that this thirty seven year
old woman is consistently making tiktoks about a person who
broke up with her three years ago. I still find
myself feeling insecure about this. When I express my concerns,
my partner mostly validates my feelings but also brushes it off.
I want to find a way to be more secure
knowing that Samantha is always going to be around. Is
it possible for Bridget to have a relationship with this

(36:59):
child without having a close friendship with Samantha? And what
if anything should I do about the social media obsession?

Speaker 5 (37:06):
Lola?

Speaker 8 (37:06):
Oh god, that is that's that's also very outside of
gay too.

Speaker 6 (37:12):
It's just, I mean, like, I know.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think this is all your problem, you guys, it
is this is all about being gay.

Speaker 5 (37:19):
Like there's like codependency and toxicity and cross boundary crossing
and then it's a child involved. I mean, it's just
it's a mess.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
But this is a mess.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
I'm sorry, No, just.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
That I was confused because I thought Bridget the partner
blocked she did, had.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Blocked her, but then I think she unblocked her at
some point.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
Okay, but but but Lola right, the writer Lola had
not blocked her and fell into this awful habit of
tracking her on social media TikTok, is it TikTok whatever?
So that's a problem that you just have to break
that cycle. Just you can fall into that easily.

Speaker 8 (37:57):
I think the issue lies definitely with Sam, right, you
just have to know who Sam is and that Sam
has some issues. But I think within the relationship they
have to figure out, like what boundaries are, like going
to be there because kid or no kid, and I
don't have kids, I really can't speak to it. But
like this woman seems a little unsafe.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Totally unsafe, and also this is an issue that her
partner needs to address with her.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
And it should be also with relation to the child.
Like if you want me to continue to be in
your child's life, which is what I want and my
partner wants, you have to understand that I am in
another relationship and you have to act in a mature
way and respect that relationship. Yeah, the relationship that I'm in,
Like she has to honor that relationship. She's tiktoks together?

(38:49):
What is she in? Eighth fucking grade?

Speaker 8 (38:50):
Like that's what I mean, that's what you're dealing with
something different.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, exactly, that's not the most stable adult. But I
honestly would would say, I'm not going to have a
relationship with your child unless you can act in a
more mature way about our relationship that is over.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
Can you do that, because it doesn't the child suffer.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
The child does suffer. But it sounds like you have
to give or put something up there, like that's at
stake because right now she's just getting everything she wants,
you know what I mean, She's got her involvement with
a child, she's used, probably using her child to remain
interacts as a life that's and so when does that end?
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (39:28):
Yeah, some serious boundaries need to be WHOA.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
So it sounds like this is a conversation Lola needs
to have with her partner and say like you got
to put some ground rules here y yes, yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:38):
I mean if I can do it together, they can
go to her.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
But you need a teammate. Lola needs a teammate and
bridget like there needs to.

Speaker 8 (39:44):
Be you need to be I would go as a
unified friend. Yes, samily say this is what we need.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
You have to Yeah, strengthen numbers.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
Well, also it's like we're together.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah, so you have to Yeah, so a unified front
to the problem at hand. Absolutely, otherwise you're just you're
screaming into nothing.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Is this a letter? Is this an email? What do
we think? I don't think it's a text.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Where do they live?

Speaker 6 (40:06):
Where do they live?

Speaker 5 (40:09):
Where do they live in proximity to each other?

Speaker 6 (40:10):
I think they need to sit the person to person.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
This is a person to person. Yeah, in person, in
public in a public setting, not at someone's house. What, yeah,
don't come over and I don't want to go to yours.
Let's meet publicly. Check screaming or crying?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You want to temper the
I mean I would say it's her responsibility because it's
her ax and it's her relationship. But you guys are
saying that they should do it together as a unit
five front. I don't either way. It should definitely be
in person, and it should be you know, these are
the new set of rules. Like either you can follow

(40:46):
them and you can't be making tiktoks about me, Like
that's that's a boundary crossing. Like you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Find some fresh are content.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's delusional and it's sad and what does that say
to your kid? Like your kid's going to see that
one day. People don't understand when you make those videos,
they're there forever, like they're out there and then then
every everyone's going to find everything.

Speaker 6 (41:06):
You know.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Do you have TikTok?

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I do have TikTok. I don't go on it. I
mean I have a social media team, Like I have
enough addictions in my life, you know what I mean.
I'm on Instagram. I'll go on Instagram, but I don't
on TikTok. It's like, no, I don't have the bandwidth
for that.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
All right, well, Lola, let us know how it goes.
I know that's yeah. Well, our nex caller is l K.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
LK has actually called in before she called in on
our Dylan mulvaney episode, which we recorded a long long
time ago. So LK says, Hi, Chelsey, it's me again, LK.
I have yet another crush to pick your brain about.
I'm over the hump of working through some stuff back
in the spring, so feeling a little bit more feisty.
I've been working on myself relentlessly while engaging and a

(41:49):
slippery slope with an old flame who I care about.
Progress is being made, but I'm still not ready for
a committed relationship. Meanwhile, I've developed a crush on my hairdresser.
Is this some gay right of passage I've dodged until now?
She's married to a man. Oof, but this gal is
the poster child of closet and homos. I know it's
not my job to jumpstart her Lesie awakening, but on

(42:09):
the other hand, that seems like it could be super.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Fun and gay.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
The problem is she maintains she isn't gay while being
really playful about how gay she presents to the world.
I asked if my playfulness about it was offensive to her.
She says, nope, You're just hurting your own feelings. She
isn't wrong, but my gut tells me she's for the
girls deep down in her soul. Should I keep the
playful flirting with hopes and prayers or just stick to
my monthly haircut for a crush fix? Queerly confused?

Speaker 5 (42:33):
LKA, really simple? Can I just answer this? Oh?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Go?

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Sorry?

Speaker 5 (42:41):
I have I have feelings on this for so high.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Hi Hello, Hello, Hi, y thank god? Okay. Kate has
some very strong feelings about this. Hi okay, Hello, this
Kate and Lisa Special a little bit of panic, right.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
Don't gay panic, please please, But my word of advice is,
don't waste your energy with your hairdresser. Why because it's
it's just it's too much trouble for no very little payoff.

Speaker 7 (43:15):
I'm avoidant as fuck, and I think I'm using these
crushes as a distraction from my real feelings.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
You feel me, you said, there's somebody else that's like
a long term person you have feelings for, right.

Speaker 7 (43:28):
Yes, yes, yes, We've been on off again for at
least a couple of years now, and I keep, you know,
doing the whole avoidant running away thing.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
And why are you doing that?

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (43:45):
I'm asking you, guys, well that situation. It's way better
than the hairdresser.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
I know.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I'm a quick Okay, let's talk about what's going on now.

Speaker 5 (43:56):
Yeah, yeah, let's but what about the avoidant problem, the
other one when you're on.

Speaker 7 (44:01):
That In therapy, I have made some progress. We're seeing
each other now. I'm trying to be very slow and deliberate,
going to therapy weekly. Still, I do think I've made
some progress, but I still have the tendencies of just
to engage in avoidant behaviors, you know, when things get
a little too real A.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
Bowl, Eh, that's what it is, is because you try
to avoid conflict.

Speaker 8 (44:24):
Yeah, no, no, intimacy, love, Yeah, okay, you know, like
being vulnerable.

Speaker 7 (44:32):
Yeah, I'm an idiot.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
You sound like you sound like Shane. Actually, we're gonna
get real about it.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
I mean you're an anagram, eid. I'm an antiagram aid.
I used to have problems being vulnerable and being intimate too. Yeah,
and therapy is exactly where you need to be for
those issues. Yeah, you have to run listen, Like, I know,
there's no fast forwarding these emotions. But like you recognize
a pattern in your behavior, you're doing something about it.

(45:01):
And every time you have an instinct that is your pattern,
you have to try to fight that. You have to
run towards what you're running away from in a sense
advice and you to and you have to like practice
that on a daily basis, because it is totally possible
to create new habits. It is totally possible. I just

(45:21):
got an email yesterday from Jane Fonda about something and
she said, it's so we were talking about we were
talking about therapy, and she said it's it's like when
you create new neural pathways, it's like you're changing the
temperature on a thermostat, because once you change it, it
doesn't change again until you go back and change it.
And I thought that was such a great way to
put it. And and that's and it's so true. Like

(45:43):
doing the work of therapy is great, but you have
to supplement that with the work that you're doing on
your own when you're out there in the real world.
You have to practice running towards the things that make
you feel uncomfortable, that make you feel scared, because those
are just feelings. That's a pattern of behavior, something that
happened in your childhood. It could have been many things
that happened in your childhood. But what you're saying is

(46:05):
you want a relationship, right, she died.

Speaker 8 (46:10):
I have to say, I think a lot of people
don't even recognize her patterns to late in life.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yes, like they don't even she's saying she's avoidant, so
she knows it. She knows it.

Speaker 6 (46:19):
But like the latter step, Oh my god, I think.

Speaker 8 (46:22):
Half people are like asleep until you're like, oh, I've
realized now I've been doing this, Like my whole life.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
And then as soon as it's like it's so it's
so powerful to reckon, to be told or to understand
what your issue is so that you can go out
there and combat it. Yeah, Like, oh, okay, I'm this
type of person I might identify as this. I don't
like this. I don't like it. I used to be like, Oh,
I don't like romance. I mean I really don't like
you know a lot of like kitchy shit, you know,
like Valentine's right. I don't like when people men send

(46:50):
me flowers, Like, I'm just like save that. I'd rather
get a nice note, right, get me a card, write
me a nice text. I way more. I value that
way more than anything you could ever buy me or
any kind of cheesy acts of love. But that's not
a fear of intimacy. That's actually what I've learned is
like my style, my love language, you know what I mean.
But I think once you identify what your issues are,

(47:12):
like her fear of intimacy, that is so freeing to
know that, because that is the first and biggest step
you get to correct exactly.

Speaker 8 (47:20):
Like maybe with this girl she's with, she's been this
in this pattern of pushing herway pushing, and maybe she
just realized, like, in fact.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Did you get did we get to intimate for you?
Did you drop the call on purpose?

Speaker 4 (47:34):
Phone?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Overheated?

Speaker 7 (47:36):
Luf's breaking my car in my own phone overheated?

Speaker 2 (47:42):
First of all of Alabama. Yeah, you need to get
as far away from Alabama as you can. But we understand.
Do you understand how powerful it is to know what
your what your issue is?

Speaker 5 (47:55):
Right?

Speaker 2 (47:55):
You're you know that you have a fear of intimacy,
you know you're avoidant. Those are superpower. Now you use
those as superpowers.

Speaker 6 (48:02):
Yeah, because you're.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Going to use that and go, look what I'm doing
right now? This is me being avoided. Even if you
say it to your girlfriend and start calling her your girlfriend,
that is your girlfriend, and you actively want to you
want a relationship? Is that right? That's right? Is it?
Can you tell me do you want a relationship?

Speaker 7 (48:23):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (48:24):
Great?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Keep saying that out loud. I want to be in
a relationship. I want to be in a relationship. I
want to love someone and I want them to love me.
Write that down every fucking morning, put it on your
mirror and say it to yourself and get comfortable with
saying that. It's great to say those things. It's great
to say I want to be in love, I want
to be loved, I want to love say it, just
keep fucking saying it.

Speaker 8 (48:45):
And I love the practice of going towards what you're
scared of. That's such a great Yeah. Yeah, it's like
a hat's.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
All this world waiting for you. There's a whole world
waiting for you once you get over yourself. Yeah, yeah,
that's true. And I identifying your issues is I, I
honestly would argue is probably like seventy five percent of
the grade of the work. Now you just have to
work at maintaining that, because that's very, very honest. When

(49:12):
you were gone asleep at the wheel, you were talking
about you and.

Speaker 6 (49:18):
Lisia was saying, you said it, and I was like, no,
you said it, you said it, Who cares.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
It was something you said.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
But you were saying.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
That we don't realize our patterns.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
No, oh yeah, thank you, thank you. Most people don't
even realize that they're avoidant or that they have a
fear of intimacy, so therefore I'm avoidant. Okay, great, So
this is there's so much power in that. Use it
as power instead of using it as a as a crutch.

Speaker 8 (49:46):
Okay, And you can even flip what you're saying, like
you're an avoidant. Maybe you start saying I'm vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
I'm going that's a good one, okay.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
Like change the script.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Yeah, there is something like fun and distract about serial
crushes that like keep you from having to get into
the hard work.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
Of her because they're always going to be unattainable.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
That's they're not.

Speaker 6 (50:09):
Going or straight be challenged.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Well, they're just not gonna. It's just not gonna happen.
It's just a fantasy. Yeah, exactly. You don't even want
it to but it's a nice distraction, right.

Speaker 8 (50:22):
Also, she's straight, it sounds like, so that's like a
big and more importantly, she's also married, so it's not
just gonna.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, like that's the that's the third thing we brought up.
She's straight.

Speaker 7 (50:39):
And oh yeah, hey, Chelsea, I want to say something
to you real quick. First of all, the book Signs
found me because of you. Oh yeah, impacted my life
so much. So thank you for being so open and
vulnerable with stuff like that, because I've got a lot
of grief, a lot of help on the other side. Yes,

(50:59):
that was amazing, So okay, thank you.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
And if you have a lot of grief and you
have a lot of help on the other side, it's
also important to be crying in front of people. You
exercise that cry in front of this person, let yourself
be vulnerable, practice that and get better at it. I
used to not be able to cry in front of anybody, anybody.

Speaker 7 (51:21):
I can try in front of her, but she's one
of the maybe the only person that I.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Can just keep practicing it. You're going to get better
at crying in front of people. You're going to get
better at your vulnerability. It's a whole new world when
you can do that. You're going to open up yourself
to all these possibilities. Not everything has to be tightly
wrapped up, and you know you don't have to consoled something.

Speaker 5 (51:43):
You're going to.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Find all of these people that want to love you
and love on you and be with you and be
your support system when you are open and honest and vulnerable,
and then you can do the same for others. It's
like about spreading more love and more joyfulness to as
many people as you can, especially in this fucking ar
time that we're all living in. It's like you owe
it to your you know, you owe it to your community,

(52:05):
and you owe it to yourself. Yes, that's powerful stuff. Okay, good,
well you listen to this podcast. Back, write down those
things I told you to write down. I'm not joking.
Put them on your mirror and say them every morning.
Say affirmations to yourself. You're somebody who needs to do that.
And then I'm sure we'll hear back from you in
another six months about a problem that you had months ago.

Speaker 7 (52:26):
Yeah, we're just gonna be like pin pals.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
But like that's fine. I'm down. I'm down, I'm down. Perfect, Okay,
have a great day. Okay, bye bye, thank you bye.
It's so funny, you know those people who are always
laughing and upbeat and yeah, totally, she's like scot that
whole vibe about her. Yeah, like yeah, everything's great, everything's great.
And then you're like everything's not great, everything's good. Yeah. Yeah,

(52:48):
it's hard to put it's hard to keep that going.
You know that for very long?

Speaker 6 (52:53):
It breaks down.

Speaker 5 (52:54):
It breaks down.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, it's it broke down on me at around forty
That's when I was like, it's exhausting.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Yeah, it's it's it's just this mask.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
You hate headphones? Huh?

Speaker 5 (53:04):
That was just hurting my ears, you know, and like
the stay now they heard right now? Yeah, And also
there wasn't someone on the camera, so I just gave
them my ears a break.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Okay, we're going to take a break. Please tag me
for the special because I get so many tags about
my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special,
and my special is the newest thing out, so I
want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching
it and tagging me, and I'll repost you. And yes,
it's called the Feeling. You have questions and we're back

(53:37):
from the break, you guys.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Okay, at least I'm hoping you don't have too many
questions about this because we're hoping for advice. Yeah, but
so Brittany, says dear Chelsea. I'm not sure how familiar
you are with queer culture, but there's a common stereotype
known as lesbian bed death. This term refers to the
inevitable decline in sex amongst long term lesbian relationships. One
factor at play is my now absence of libido, which

(54:00):
is the direct result of antidepressants. We've tried scheduling sex
without much success. Another factor that some may relate to
is when you get comfortable in a relationship and it's
easy to not keep up with physical appearance as you
once did, which has led to a decrease in attraction
for us. Any advice on how to deal with this, Brittany.

Speaker 8 (54:20):
I have a straight question because this is this is
a I feel like it's a myth. I'm going to say,
left me in bed death or it's been put on
us and we have just put on us? Right, But
doesn't that happen in straight relationships?

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Yes, we get emails all the time.

Speaker 5 (54:35):
Happen I think it happens.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Have a name, but like I mean, it's I think, yeah,
I mean, I've never heard the term bed death before.

Speaker 5 (54:43):
But what the straight people call it?

Speaker 2 (54:44):
They don't call it anything. They call it like, I'm
fucking sick of you, you know, like it's hard to
maintain a fucking hot sex life with I mean living
together just I mean, there are couples that have healthy
sex lives and most of those couple don't have children. A.
That's one thing. B. You get sick of people. Like

(55:05):
the reason why I love long distance relationships is because
you know, it's something like you're not going to get
sick of you and you're not going to annoy me
five days, and if you are, that's a big problem.
But like if I I like that sparing amount of
time with someone, I know my personality and I would
experience bad death within the first year. You know, you
have to be really into somebody and you have to

(55:26):
work hard at maintaining some sort of sex life that's
like new and fun and original. And that's really hard
to do, right because you usually set up a dynamic
with somebody and then you have that dynamic and so
you're not creating new sexual like shenanigans with someone you
have to That feels false and it's also awkward.

Speaker 8 (55:43):
Well that the scheduling of sex. It makes me crazy.

Speaker 5 (55:49):
You know you have to schedule, know the scheduling where
you say, okay on Tuesdays, this is going to be
our time.

Speaker 6 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, that gives me the creeps.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Right by people, but people that is advised, though I
know it's been very like people say, no, it actually works.
I can't understand that.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
But it also it's also helpful for people who are
in a dry spell just to get back into the
act of having sex because It's like when you don't
use your vagina, you start to go, well, I don't
need sex. You know who cares. It's like women when
they hit menopause are like, well, I'm not it hurts
I can't have sex, and it's like, well, you have
to use your vagina not to lose your vagina. And also,
when you're with somebody for twenty years, most straight couples

(56:27):
stop making out. You know, they're not kissing, they're not
making out, they're having sex, but it's rudimentary. It's like,
oh god, I.

Speaker 5 (56:34):
Have a scheduled sex thing too.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Exactly. It's like, OK, coming, we want to meet me
in the shower and we can get it done real quick.
So it's like check, check, got it done. I have
a lot of friends who talk like that, and a
lot of friends when I say do you make out
with your husband? I would say ninety percent of my
straight friends do not make out with their husbands. They
would love to, but that ship has sailed.

Speaker 5 (56:51):
I've heard that making out actually is more powerful than
like scheduling sex time.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
I would love to everything.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
Yeah, kissing is like the most intimate thing.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
It also gets you going right, Yes it does.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
But even if it doesn't get that far, it's still
like represents a level of intimacy that that sex doesn't always.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
And there's like cuddling and like snuggling that goes along
with kissing that goes a long way too. Like there
is intimate that is intimate, that is intimacy as well.
Sex can be non intimate, you know.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
Bad death. It's like the lesbian bed death thing. I
think it gets put on us because you think of
two women, and two women get together and they just
want to like nuzzle in and stay at home and
nurture and get a bunch of cats and never leave
and order take out in order to take out exactly.
And so I think that's how that stigma got put
on on us.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Yeah, and I feel like sex is awful, But scheduling
a date night where you can actually reconnect with your
partner and like go do something novel and.

Speaker 5 (57:55):
I like, I like it. I'm with you on the
date night thing. Yeah, if you make a point to
like go have dinner or go out and have drinks
and get out of the.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
House, rekindle intimacy rather than just the sex part of it.
I'll also say because of the antidepressant thing, like you
don't necessarily know, like antidepressants are tricky to get it right.
But if you're open to experimenting with some other stuff,
like talk to your doctor because and say like, this
is what I'm experiencing. I have no sex life because
of this. What else can we try? So that might

(58:22):
be something to do to.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Okay, Well, on that very depressing note, I would like
to say I am very happy that I am single
and that the next person I have sex with is
hopefully gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah. It's like,
even when I'm breaking up with someone, I'm like, I

(58:45):
can never be sad because I'm like, there's just a
new adventure on my life, right.

Speaker 6 (58:48):
You know.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
That's a nice optimistic way of saying.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
And it's just but I that's how I feel. I'm
always like, well that okay, that that would served its purpose.
What what other candy is out there?

Speaker 8 (58:58):
You know?

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah, that doesn't really help the The grass is always greener.
The book is called So Gay for You. It's written
by Alicia Haley and Kate Manigg And I think I
said it better the first time, But you know that's
your fault for having that last name. It's a great
book and these ladies wrote it together, which is so cute.

Speaker 6 (59:19):
Thanks.

Speaker 9 (59:19):
Thanks, how gay, So get yourself a copy and tune
in and you can follow them both on Instagram and
are on TikTok and they follow in love.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
No, not TikTok.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
That's what it will be the name of the episode.
Not on talk. I can't see this on TikTok. Thank
you ladies for coming in today, Thank you for having us. Yeah, Okay,
my remaining dates for Vegas, there are remaining dates for
this year. Summertime is coming and I will be in
Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July fifth.

(59:57):
We will be the next date that I'm there, July fifth,
August thirtieth, and then November one and twenty ninth. November
first and November twenty ninth, I will be in Las
Vegas at the Cosmo performing Inside Myself at the Chelsea.
It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay,
thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Do you want advice from Chelsea? Right into Dear Chelsea
podcast at gmail dot com. Find full video episodes of
Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod.
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com