September 11, 2024 • 48 mins
In this week's episode, Prisca Dorcas Mojica Rodriguez joins us to discuss her highly anticipated book, Tías and Primas: On Knowing And Loving The Women Who Raise Us. In this book, Prisca provides us with a guide on how to understand the various Latina archetypes in our families and how we can break free from some and embrace others.
Prisca founded the digital platform, Latina Rebels in 2013. She is a feminist, theologian, storyteller, and advocate. This is Prisca's second time on Locatora Radio. Listen to Capítulo 105 to hear her discuss her debut book Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts AND her experience with Christianity and Satanism.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/locatora_productions
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Episode Transcript
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two thirteen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Last time on Look at Our radio. We talked about
some adventures we were shooting the shit, and I shared
a story about getting scammed by a fake taxi driver
in Mexico City, and I decided, okay, when we go
to Chipultepec, like I'm taking the puppet with me, I
named her Astrid. I like had her on my hand
the whole time because I was filming content with her.
And also like she was a crowd pleaser, like every
(01:37):
time there was a group of children, they were like esunajo.
Not there there was like a group of nuns that
really liked her. Like we were having fun with Astrid.
So we decide that on our way to the zoo,
go ahead, tune in, leave a review and share with
the friends. So we're back in studio. We're about to
interview an incredible guest that we've known for a very
(01:58):
very very long time, and we've had this person on
the podcast before. We used to run around with this
person all over the Instagram streets back in the day.
Shout out to those of you who followed Latina Rebels,
because we have on the show today Prisca Dorgas Mohika Rodriguez,
and she really needs no introduction, Like I said. She
(02:20):
founded the digital platform Latina Rebels in twenty thirteen. She
was born in Managua, Nicaragua, but she currently calls Nashville, Tennessee,
her home. Prisca is a feminist, theologian, storyteller and advocate.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
We interviewed Briska back in twenty twenty one to discuss
her book four Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.
You can tune into that episode Gopitolo one oh five
where we talk about Christianity, Satanism, and her debut book,
And today we're discussing her newly released book, her second book,
(02:53):
called theus Emprimus. In this book, she explores thea's empritimas
as archetypes. Fearlessly grappling with the effects of intergenerational trauma,
centuries of colonization, and sexism. She attempts to heal the
pain that is so often embodied in female family lines. So,
without further ado, we're so excited to welcome Brisca Rodriguez.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, so excited to.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Have you on today for the second time to talk
about your new book and all things I was reflecting
on our last time you came on and we literally
talked about Satanism. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's still one
of my favorite episodes ever.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Oh yeah, our favorite part of the interview, I think, yeah,
because we afterwards we were so like, wow, Satanism sounds
really good.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Are we Satanists?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Are we satan Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So like before we get into the book, though, like,
how are you doing? Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I know it's been I mean, I'm just busy. I'm
trying to write a novel right now, and I'm teaching
myself how to write a novel, so it just feels
like a different So the first two books, when I
write them, I get barely any edits back. I've turned
in my novel and I get destroyed. So it's like
(04:19):
a humbling experience too, because I know most authors go
through the experience of sending their editor stuff and it
just gets destroyed and you just have to get used
to that. I'm starting to have to get used to it.
So it's very stressful. You realize how much you like
equated your self worth to the thing that you do
when somebody destroys it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So as you're gearing up to talk about your second book,
you're gonna go on your book tour. You're doing all
your speaking engagements, which you've done for so many years,
for so long. Now you're also working on a novel.
Can you give us a little teaser about the novel?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Is there anything you can share? The premise?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
A line? The pitch is why. It's why. So it's
young adult and it's Judy Blooms.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Are you there?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
God, it's me Margaret. But it's a Latina thirteen years
old immigrant in Miami, And so she's going through the
same things I think that like we would think of
at that age range, like hormones and just figuring out
like why am I crying all the time? And what
are these bumps on my chest? Like all this stuff.
(05:31):
But she's also like translating documents for her parents, and
like in a really conservative church where she's coming to
the age where they're expecting her to speak in tongues
because she's old enough. So like she's like battling like
being a kid in the US, but also still having
a very immigrant religious experience and wanting to be her
(05:53):
own person, and learning to keep secrets from her parents
and then learning to keep secrets from her friends because
like you can't can't say, you can't explain everything about
how different you are to your friends in school. So
it's just like tumultuous teenager trying to live.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, don't go anywhere, lokomotives. We'll be right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Back, and we're back with more of our episode. It
sounds is this based on your life? Yeah? Okay, amazing.
It sounds like this sounds a little familiar. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, I haven't even changed the names yet. It's all people,
real people's names and stuff. I'll go through that at
some point in the legal review. But yeah, oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love that because you know, so much of your
work that you've done online, in print, digital has been
so deeply personal to you, just like your second book,
The Semprimas. So I think that that's a good jumping off.
You know, let's dive into the book. I've read through it.
It's masterpiece, beautiful. I think that this is something the
(07:06):
community is going to love again.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I know your first book was well received, we loved it.
It continues to be sold and is in like another print, right,
and so I see that same thing for Tias and Primas, right,
and so I wanted to pull a quote from the introduction,
because I think the introduction is just really situates us
(07:30):
and like, what this book is who you are, and
so I want to read this quote from you. And
while wonderful and great things happen when families gather, other
insidious and less beautiful things often occur too. And so
you're telling us like you're tasked with making a sense
of these archetypes and recognizing that they were created by
(07:51):
colonial and patriarchal structures, sexism, racism, all these things. And
so it's a really deep book, right, taking theory, and
you're making it super relatable, just like you did with
your last book.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So how did you.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Decide that this book, The Smbrimas, would be the follow
up to Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I didn't know I was going to be the follow
up until I feel like it's gonna feel really woo woo.
But like books tell you when they're ready to be written,
and I had written four proposals. I was going to
co write a feminist Bible study. I also pitched a
cookbook with a lot of the same messaging, but for
(08:36):
people who aren't going to pick up a chapter book,
but might pick up a cookbook. I pitched a graphic novel,
and then I pitched this one, and they were like, yeah,
they all sound wonderful. Pick which one you want to
move forward with so we can give you the edits
my agents and the pretty much just felt the most
(08:58):
build I guess the most. I'm the most that I
could actually write a whole book with, because in nonfiction,
you sell ideas of books, you don't sell finished books,
and so it was just ideas and it was like,
I think I can actually fill these pages. I'm in.
I was in that state of like hanging out with
a lot of friends. After the first book had published,
(09:20):
I went on a vacation with a bunch of girlfriends,
and it was just in the ether of our conversations,
like in a vacation with a friend. She was like,
she's the one who said, oh, yeah, those dignified senora
as who hold their purses really close and judge you.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I was like, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Know that woman, I know her, yeah, and that's my mom.
Like that, Like it was just coming and connecting and
the dots were becoming clear and I was like, I
can do this one. And so that was the first
one that felt like I could write and I could
sell the quickest. So that's how I ran with it.
But it also is like it's hard to focus on
(09:58):
one thing. So like I I started working in anthology
in the middle of this book, and I started thinking
about the novel in the middle of this book. You
can't like decide what your body wants to do and
what stories are dying to get out. But yeah, I
felt the most ready. I call it like cooked.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I love that beautiful. For a basic beginning to this interview,
can you give us an introduction to yourself, your age,
your occupation as you define it, anything else you want
to share as far as who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, I'm thirty nine years old, I'm first generation college
grad immigrant, and I am a full time author, which
is crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
An author you are, Yes, I love that, and you
know another you know, I'm just going to see you
praises today. But another thing that I love about the
intro is like you have this really great quote the
sentence right that's I am but a comma and a
long list of Latina is writing about our experiences through
different lenses. And that was so powerful to me because
(11:07):
I feel like we have this way as a community
of like making one person like the voice of the community,
and that's so much pressure, and I feel like you
kind of address it in this way where you're like,
this is just one experience from my POV, from my worldview,
so can you expand on bringing that to this book.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, I think especially as I've been doing y'all know,
like I've been doing speaking engagements for years, and I
constantly get emails around like but this is a mixed
gender group, can you do something for everyone? And I'm like, what, No,
no one can, what are you talking about? And so
I think it was It's it's like I feel like
(11:48):
I continue to try to remind people like there is
no singular Latina experience. There is no Latina experience. There's
even this book is very If things don't write, it's
because it wasn't your experience, and that's okay. Like I
think we get in the way of our own selves too,
(12:09):
like this isn't my experience, so this this author must
be wrong. Instead of no, this author is informed by
so many other things. I think, like white people have
told us their experiences are all our experiences, and we
just like continue that mindset, be like pick up a
thing that doesn't make any sense to us, and we're like,
(12:30):
we'll make a fit. It's like the Cinderella stepsisters. But no,
I don't think it. I don't think it works that way.
And the more I've been around long enough to where
like after Latini that came into this scene that was
like doing speaking engagement, It's like that wasn't a thing
that was conversational at the beginning, and so like, not
(12:52):
that there weren't black Latinis, but it was like now
we had a name for it, and now they need
to be acknowledged and have their own space for that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It was.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
It's all been something that I've had to live on
air figure out, like, don't pigeonhole me into this one
singular I can speak for all of us because I can't,
and I refuse to be forced into it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Love it. And on that note, who do you write for?
And as you've been coming up and doing your own
reading and you're, you know, undergoing your own educational processes,
who was writing for you?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I think I write for Latinas. I think it's more
a millennial Latina for sure, Latinas who went to Pwi's
Latinas who were raised with really strict conservative Christian parents,
Like who understand when I say speaking in tongues like
that's the Latina I get. I get, I can get
(13:51):
really niche with it, like speaking in tongues like people
fainting backwards because the Holy Spirit annointed them. Like I
speak to a particular kind of Latina that understood hyper
religion through a colonial lens, like our colonialism was Christianity
as we understood it. And I think growing up I
(14:16):
was a big reader, but I like was introduced to
San Rasists and that's kind of it. Even in Miami,
like there wasn't this huge push to have representation. I
think Miami Latins are interesting. I mean we could see
it in the politics of Miami, and I've learned that
(14:36):
in distance from Miami. I was like, oh, y'all loved whiteness,
got it? That was That was good to know. But
I didn't read stuff that represented me. So I read
in grad school Glorian Saldua and Cheri Moraga and it
was there that I saw. And even Sandra Sists. I
always talk about this one essay where she talks about
her her pussy and it was brown her she I
(15:00):
think she calls it pano chap, but I think she
also says pussy. But is that when I was like,
we're saying, we're saying that shit. Like I remember looking around, like, wait,
we're just talking about this openly. So it took to me,
being in my late twenties based mid to late twenties,
for me to read people to be like, oh, we
(15:20):
can tell our stories in a different way and it
can be really specific and people will get it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I love that you brought up that that writing by
Santa Cisnetto's about her pano chap, because you know, for everyone,
their introduction to Santa cis Neto's is, of course the
house on Mango Street, which I get it iconic, right,
it's celebrating like an anniversary this year. But her writing
is super political too, But that's not necessarily the introduction
that we have of her.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It is like in her essays, I think are the
the more groundbreaking stuff that really was like, oh I
think I'm your fan, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And political and all these fat things, but sexual as well.
So I'm really curious too about the conversations around sex,
sexuality and the body that Sandra Cisnettos was having given
your upbringing and your background, like how did those two
things come together when you're reading an author like that.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean, I had my sexual awakening in my graduate program.
So I got divorced and was like, let's let's fuck around,
let's figure this stuff out. Because it did. It did
awaken a lot in me. It made me realize how
much shame I had to sexuality, my own sexuality, how
much I had like equated love to sex, how much
(16:42):
I had equated even my worth to my body's ability
to do what my mom would be, like the thing
where women were meant to do. And so I this
point when I read this that stuff, I had had
multiple miscarriages and it was like, okay, it's not working.
So I hate this body. And I went through three
years of celibacy while married, and then I was reading
(17:03):
this stuff and there was I remember, I just like
became hungry for hot dogs and I was also I
became vegetarian those three years too. And I woke up
it was twenty thirteen January and I was like, I
just want a hot dog. And I was like insatiable
about a hot dog. But it was just like this
beginning of like I just I want me and I
also want to get fucked, and it really, I mean
(17:27):
it resulted in me getting divorced and really just exploring
all over Nashville what that felt like for me.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I think that's our quote. I want meat and I
really want to get fucked. That's perfect.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
We hope you're enjoying this interview.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Stay tuned, we're back, and we hope you enjoy the
rest of the interview.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I love that. You know what, there is a correlation
for me with becoming exiting vegetarianism and also starting to
have sex with men.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Really, Oh my god, what is that about.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I've never pieced those two together. Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
In a second, we need to conduct a scientific study.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, I know, I need everything.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
What was the me?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh dah, I love it. Wow, that's a great that's
a great story. And like you know, we see that
in in we see some of pieces of that in
the new book. And so I wanted I want us
to dive into some of the archetypes in this book,
which you mentioned are an amalgamation of multiple people. So
(18:48):
I thought we could like maybe pick a couple and
like talk about them. I have a couple prepared, but
if you want to, like pick a couple to talk about, like.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
What do you think whatever?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I always want to talk about the theao c's ghosts,
but I feel like nobody's bringing it up.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And in her head, let's do ithost?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Can we can? I ask to like why theas and primas?
Like why write about THEA and primas? And then let's
talk about the THEA.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
I think the first book was like it activated a
lot of like autoimmune response stuff for me. I think
my body and I'm still figuring out in therapy, but
I think my body has been like pissed at me
for saying all the things that I said and writing
a lot of things that I had never really talked
to anybody about. And so I knew that if I
(19:36):
was going to do this long term, I needed to
write differently. And so Theas and Primas gave me like
a little distance because it's based on visually. I don't
know if you've ever read this book. It's called like
Love Loss And what I wore is this like picture
book of this woman in her life and it's just
these stick figures and she just like draws her little
(19:57):
black dress she wore on such and such she went on,
and it felt like fun to read it. And I
read it like as a senior in high school where
I was reading really intense books, but I picked up
this weird picture book and I was like, Okay, I
want images with this, and I want this to feel lighter.
I want this to feel like you know, when you're
like going on TikTok and there's like a comedian who's
(20:19):
like your THEA who's always partying, or your ta who's
cleaning the house before her mom gets there or whatever.
I wanted a little that infused into it, that felt
less hard on my own body as I wrote through
this stuff. The same message, but it's just like a
different approach.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I love that. And I was going to ask you
about the illustrations at the end, but since you brought
it up. First of all, is that Connie in Latia Queen.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
When I saw that, I was like, that's my girl, Connie.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
He wiled her.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
It was likely it looks just like her image.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, yeah, not everyone's going to catch that.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I did. I did, definitely, So let's talk about it.
So the illustrations by Josie del Castillo. You mentioned already
like why you wanted to maybe give some like levity
to the book in that way, So how did you
pick you know, I see throughout the book that some
of the illustrations are you, some obviously not like Connie.
(21:20):
So how did you decide, like did you use reference
photos of friends? Like how did you decide who was
going to be included in the book in that way?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I have a lot of pictures of family, so a
lot of them are family. But it's also like I
knew I'm trying to make the point that like chosen
family is a real thing. And so I also started
reaching out to friends that I was like, can I
use this beautiful image of you? I promise I'm not
writing about you. I just need an image that feels
(21:50):
like the character of this person. And yeah, they were
just like, go ahead, use this image. And it was
it was a matter of like what felt like the needed.
Yeah I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So let's talk about the thea who sees phantasmas? Like
who is she? You know, I mean folks listening won't
be able to see you have to buy the book,
but like there's this like really great image of like
the thea who sees phantasmas.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
She seems cool, so let's talk about her.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Let's talk about this archetype.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I love this one because I think, uh, white people,
you know, like because they run industries. It's like a
real thing, right, you have to confront them and pitch
things to them, you all know, and they like love
buzzy things about us. They love like, oh, look at
(22:45):
talk about your immigrant story, like they really want to
know particular things about the Latina experience. And so I
was approached by Spotify to pitch a podcast, and I
was like, bet it took me like an hour. I
was like, I've been dreaming of this moment my whole life.
And I pitched this podcast called Fantastmas and it was
(23:06):
going to talk about ghost stories but also like visit
haunted places, do ouiji board readings, and like just do
talk with the candle. I don't know if you've ever
done the flame thing, but do that, like do to
it all. Because I'm on the cusp of like I
believe in ghosts, but I also I'm like, oh, but
(23:29):
maybe it's just my imagination, you know. So I'm like
I want to prove myself right or wrong. And they
never call.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Me back rude.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But I think it's like that they like us, but like,
don't be like that, don't be that weird. That's a
little bit that yeah, yeah, and so like I've been
fascinated with that. Like I can talk to a lot
of people about a lot of things. A minute, I
talk about ghosts. Only other Latinas or people from the
Global South stick around. That's really when white people divest
(24:01):
from the room, they're like, oh, this is clinical and
you need to like call a professional. That's my favorite
one because I also have a ghost in this house.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So oh yeah. I mean I see a quote here
about how like you're shocked when people tell you that
they've never let me read it. I was floored to
hear that some people have not heard their parents tell
a single personal encounter with a ghost. I also can't
think of anyone that hasn't had an experience with a ghost.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You know, my I mean definitely, like, oh, a deceased
relative visiting someone at the foot of their bed or
in their room or on a special occasion. Those things
happen all the time.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah, that's normal.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's not necessarily like a pneumonia in your closet, but like, yeah, like,
oh I felt my you know, Awalito come and like
visit me in my dream, and then I felt him
the next day in the kitchen you.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Know what have you? Yeah? So much so I think
people are even compacts about it, like no, he visited
me actually yesterday, so I don't know if he's visited
you yet, but I saw him.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Same.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I grew up with so many ghost stories. I heard
everyone's ghost story. I know everytha's most scary ghost story
and the funniest one that they'll retell. Like my partner,
who you all know is white, is like never, we
don't talk about that. WHOA.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Do you think it's that they don't see them or
they don't want to.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Talk about it or both, or are the ancestors not
visiting them. They're not. I think they are. Okay, they are, okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, because my ghost here is a white man. They're here.
They're just not paying attention to them.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
That is why in the horror movies they stay in
the house the longest.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yes, right, yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Well, I also want to ask you about the very
first archetype, which is la la matrica, la matriarch, right,
because this was so poignant for me to read, because
I really loved what you said about how and actually,
not every family's going to have a matriarch and it's
not clearly defined, and you do define what a matriarch is,
(26:17):
but I've always felt that about my mom's side of
the family, that there's when my grandmother passed. She passed
when I was a year old, so I never met her.
I realized like, oh, we don't have a matriarch, and
so this was like really really profound for me to
really think about my family structure and maybe the way
you theorize, like why this happens and who the matriarch
(26:38):
is and why that is. So I want to know
why was it important to you to situate la matriarch
at the top of the book The very first archetype
we are introduced to is la matriarch.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I would love to have a wonderful answer for this,
but the editor decided it okay because it is hard
for me to even think of an order my first
book too. It was like somebody organized and I was like,
oh my god, thank you. Sometimes you're too close to
a thing to see how a reader will react to it,
(27:14):
and I was definitely too close to the thing. But
when she put that first, I was like.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, yeah, perfection, I love I love it first, and
I was curious. I was wondering if this was like
you know, when you think of like an album, right,
an album like sometimes has a story and the songs
are placed in a certain way. So I was wondering
if the book was the same way. But that's fine too,
because I think that you know, the chapters, I mean,
the books starts really strong with this because it's like,
(27:42):
even if we don't have matriarchs in our family, we
know what a matriarch is, right, and we have like
a definition in our mind or a story, a person,
an image, even if we don't have one.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Yeah, And I mean she told me her thought process
around it. It was that it was, this is a
weird book to come into because of the way that
it's written, and so this situates everybody will understand once
they get to the Matriarch and read it, what type
of book this is. To then read the other it
gets from most common I think to most niche is was.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Her process to most niche Okay, interesting, it's.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Sort of like it's sort of like a very poetic
family tree, and like a very specific family tree. Not
everybody is on there, only the essential branches.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I think so too, And I think that there were
some I want that in club. It was just like
I don't know that personally, and I don't like I
wanted to have the gothritima that I just didn't grow
up with a gothritima, but I know they're so freaking common. Yeah,
Or the queer pritimo who hangs out with the patimas.
I wanted to have him too. I wrote him and
it just was like, I don't think it's my it's
(28:58):
I don't think it's my story to tell.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I see that. I see that, and I noticed that too.
So this this kind of illuminates that for me because
there I did notice that there are more theas and
there are primas. Yeah was that intentional?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah? Yeah, I think as I'm becoming as I am
a thea now, it was just the ones that I'm
I'm surrounded by theas. It's the ones that feel closer
to me now that I'm like, oh, this is who
we're all becoming, this is who we're all feeling like
now in this stage.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Really interesting and just because of the age dynamic. Well,
I guess a prima can be of any age, really,
and a thea can be of any age. I mean,
especially like the way that Latinos have kids. Sometimes like
your THEO could be younger than you, right, like just
kind of depending how things go. Yeah, but in theory,
like the thea feels more adult, right, and prima feels
(29:55):
like somebody you grew up with. And maybe like a
thea is a little bit more fully formed their identity,
and maybe a prima is like young or in a
state of growth or transition or going through a phase.
And so I don't know, how do you like tease
that out? Like these different archetypes are these fixed like identities?
Are these things that change? How do you how did
(30:15):
you work that out?
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I do talk about like even with the matriarch, I
mentioned she's someone's thea, she's someone's prima. So I do
mention that, but it wasn't constructing it, like there's the
prima who doesn't like other women. That felt like it
had to be a prima because I don't. I don't
have very manythas who are that naive about the existence
of men as oppressor, like my theas feel quick with it,
(30:41):
like so Masura, like these words just come out of
them really quickly. Whereas I feel like you have to
be younger to sort of still cling to the men,
like like Arima who won't who doesn't like other women would.
Uh so Yeah, some felt like she has to be young,
she has to be figuring out this stuff that feels
(31:02):
so blatant later.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Right, she's still like in her she's a pigmy prima.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, she doesn't know that, I realize. Yeah, give her
like a few heartbreaks or a few your dad telling
you or something, it starts to fall into place real quick.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, and and you kind of touch on this in
the book, but I want to hear you talk about it,
like can we like move around?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Can we like start as like the pretty prima and
then become Latya loka like you.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So like how did you how did you see this?
You know these archetypes in like how maybe they start
as like a prima that's like the pretty prima and
then becomes like the Latia guird, the MLMDA you know
what I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Like, yeah, can we like move around? I try to
hold that at tension a lot when I talk about the.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Beaus.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I do believe that can come from a perfecta mm hm.
So that like I try to hold that tension of like,
sometimes shit happens and you transform right before your very eyes.
So yeah, and I'm very much throughout as I'm telling
each archetype. I'm also like and I'm sort of like
that too, and I'm sort of like this too, Like
(32:22):
I think I'm like seventeen of them, So like, I
definitely believe there's just snapshots of like the whole point
is that we're much more complex. So it's the idea
that your Tiao sees Phantasma's is also child free and
like the young thea, all those things can happen, And
(32:42):
I think that that's kind of the fun part of
it is just trying on the hats that fit the most.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Have you it's very grey gardens that transition from pretty
pretty much to it's very great garden. It's very little,
eaty but love. It really is. But I'm wondering if
you've had primas and theas of your own who have
read the book and who see themselves in it and
who identify themselves.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So my family doesn't read my stuff amazing, I'm so
la loocha that I need prayer, okay, and they don't.
They think I'm like some sort of innlemoniala or just
I've I've lost my way, which is kind of what
when I wrote La Loka. There's like a little anger
in that chapter because it felt like naming the thing
(33:32):
that I don't get to name with them, because the
minute I get angry, I just prove to them that
I'm lost. I just prove to them that I'm I'm
no longer with Jesus and you know, Satan has taken
over my body because I'm so angry and why are
you so angry if you're so happy? Like they'll use
any emotion that I have about the silence that they're
(33:53):
giving me to like fuel there further silencing. So like, yeah,
they don't read me and they're not interested in what
I have to say because I'm la loca.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I love that the chapter of Letaa Loka because you know,
I really wanted to talk about that, because it wouldn't
be a loka at that episode without us talking about
Latia looka, you know, and you talk about how you
write about how sometimes a loca is born out of nurturing, parenting,
and encouragement to be their own person, and sometimes la
loca is made out of friction and pain. And so
(34:28):
I want to ask you, like, either where the THEA
looka like we self identify as a the aloka we're
called the tia looka or we have at thea looka.
How can we support and love.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
This thea is sort of viewed in the same way
that the matriarch is, and it's kind of like she
doesn't she doesn't need any help. She she's got this,
she's strong. Clearly she's doing all this stuff. She's got this.
And I think that that's like a there's like a
there's a tweet that's like check in on your strong friend,
(35:02):
check in on your ta loka, check in on your matriarch,
check in on the oldest daughter. Like the specific people
are carrying a lot more than they should, and specific
people I think are healing wounds from our families that
no one else even wants to mention. So I think
it's it's check in and like make sure that they
(35:24):
know that you do care about them, because it is
easy to hear. It's the voices that are telling you
I'm praying for you sometimes feel louder than the voices
that are like I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I love that. Yeah that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Did you so on this the like self identifying as
this THEA? Is that something that there was a specific
moment in time when you were like, yep, this is me,
I'm tia la loka or was that something that was
put on you and you like found out and then
like one day you realize like, oh, I'm that person, and.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
It's it's moments of constantly finding out. And I was
told that I have my loka my knuckles because when
I decided to get divorce. I mean, Mommy on the
phone scream does locus do LOOKA? And I hung up
on her as she was screaming that, and so I
(36:23):
got that tattooed because I was like maybe I I mean,
I think that it takes a certain level of a
disconnect from the reality that I had been raised in
to do what I've been able to do since. So
it is I think it's a complicated term because it's
(36:43):
also like you know, in the spaces that we tend
to navigate is like, don't use the word crazy, You're
not crazy. There's people who are actually mentally insane and
like don't appropriate, like or further stigmatize some people's realities.
And I think that that's valid, and some of us
get to reclaim words that are used to hurt us,
(37:05):
or words that categorically, categorically we might fit into. I
talk about in the book I Have, I've been diagnosed
with this associate of disorder because of my experiences, I
can sort of leave my body and so like clinically
I'm also a loca, and I get to claim that, like,
those are wounds that were given to me, those are
(37:27):
experiences that harmed me, and these are coping mechanisms that
I live with today. So yeah, maybe I am la loca,
and people remind me of that pretty casually.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I think too, Like the thing about the word crazy
in the word loka, it is like, even the way
we live our lives today, take us back thirty forty years,
we would have been institutionalized for living our lives this way.
So it's not that far fetched to be like, yes,
I am la loca, you know, and I'm going to
reclaim that for myself, because you really would have institutionalized
me for wanting a divorce, for having anasm like for
(38:01):
being a lesbian. So you know, I don't know, I
just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
And in our countries maybe even like depending on how
rural you get, yeah, and how loud you're being, that
label is still a thing.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
It's also this odd, this odd like tension where it's like, oh,
calling you crazy for getting a divorce, right, is like
divorce happens every day, people get divorced. It's a pretty
normal thing. It's like, not that crazy, actually no, So
it's like, don't put that label on this pretty run
(38:38):
of the mill like decision. On the other hand, it's
almost like even though your mom was saying that with
a negative energy, on some levels, she was like identifying
a truth about you, right that you have like come
to like claim. And I don't know. It's that thing
with moms in particular, where it's like my mom is
(38:58):
saying something to me that I don't like and it's
actually kind of wrong, but also she's kind of right,
and so now what do I do with this?
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Yeah? And for me it was like fuck it. Yeah,
than I am and I show up as that at
your house and I'll make you uncomfortable and I'm not
code switching for you like I used to all that. Yeah,
I will show up fully as you have. You know,
knighted me to be.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Right. The floodgates are open, like we can all agree,
so it's agreed, we agree.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, like watch me.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I love that because you also have, of course the
divorce THEA as the archetype, and you so brilliantly tie
it with purity culture. And so I want to talk
about that more because I feel like purity culture and
the correlation with like trad wives, right, it's like on
(39:56):
the rise. It's like very ol popular. Yeah, it's like
a mainstream, like young girls are aspiring to be tradwives,
and so you know it. I wanted to Yeah, I
think with that background, I want to hear more about
you know, the archetype of the divorce THEA in the book,
and like how you see that tiede with purity culture.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
So I grew up with a Theia who is divorce
and who never remarried and moved back with her mom,
and uh it was it was very hush tones about
it and very shameful that she was divorce and me,
mommy would even like you can never get divorce like
you make a pact in front of God. So when
(40:40):
I got divorced and got sort of that wrath of
how dare you, how dare you think you can provide
an alternate opportunity for anyone in this family, or an
alternate script than the one that we're all supposed to follow,
I really started to think about that theah a lot.
(41:02):
And I mean the way she dated was so secretive,
the way that she moved was so secretive, the way
that she carried shame was so in our faces that
I knew what my options were. It was except my
mom calling me crazy. She she was like, you got
(41:22):
to move back home, like she wanted, let's let's do it.
I'm ready to be my mom. I'm ready to have
you at my home. I remember I did move me
briefly back home and she's like, just go to the
bar and get pregnant. I like, it's your baby.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
I just don't ever be with a man again, don't
get married. But like, let's have a kid. I'll help
you raise it. Like it was very strange. I was
just like, what am I? What are you? What are
you trying to tell me to do? You think I
was thirty. I was like, you think now I'm Dune.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, but you put me on to a pasture.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
What the fuck. So that archetype felt really important because
of my context, because I do write for somebody who
i'ms from a really churched context. I've seen other divorced
women in the way that they operate in the church,
the way even I had a boyfriend in high school.
(42:17):
It was the first official boyfriend, like claimed right, not
like a secret one, and we were supposed to obviously
we talked about marriage. Was he'd like talk to my
parents to like date me with a chaperone, and my
mom sat him down once and said, she's not Brisilla.
I don't think it's gonna end up with you because
(42:38):
your mom is divorced.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Oh my god, I'm dead.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And he would like he was really hurt by it.
He would like bring it up randomly, like with like
your mom said, I'm not good enough because my mom's divorced,
and like it really hurt him. And I was like,
I can't, I can't ever date anyone to speak Spanish.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
The knives were out girls, things these.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Parents can say and like cutting. So yeah, this archetype
felt very particular because I heard a lot about divorced
women that was never good. So I was like, why, why, God,
that's why.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
That's why this is so interesting fascinating because Okay, so
the divorce for your mom like triggered something and she's like,
you know what, fuck it, all proprieties out the window,
Let's just have a baby.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
You know, it's like, well we've already we've gotten the divorce, we've.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Broken in the bag anymore, you know, all the.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Pomp and circumstance. Who cares, Let's just get straight to it.
And those things were so important leading up to Yeah,
like in your youth probably I'm coming from a Catholic background.
The way that they hammer all of save yourself for
a marriage and never get divorced and have a family
and until the day you die, that is just hammered in.
(44:02):
And I'm cracking up because recently my mom made a comment.
She was talking to another parent of someone that I
grew up with, and we're now all in our thirties
and none of us are married and none of us
have kids, and so my mom and this other parent
were joking, they were like, you know what, we don't
even care about all that merrige stuff anymore, Like we
just want grandkids, like we don't care how they do it,
(44:22):
like just do it, just get it, give me a baby.
All of a sudden, all that stuff does, all the
rules are gone. They're like we're just however you do it,
just do it, just do something, give us something.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, just fulfill me now, yes, yes, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, I'm so curious. I want to go home and
ask my mom about this because all of my mom's
my mom included and her sisters, there's five of them total,
they were all divorced and like, now I'm wondering, like,
and my grandparents were religious, but I don't remember them
being like like oh, like you're done, you know, like
they were very like, okay, well we're gonna help you
raise your grandkids. And they moved away around between Texas
(45:00):
and California depending on who was getting divorced, literally, and
they were like the support system. So I'm so curious now,
like I want to go ask, like how did they
feel about divorce because they were married for fifty years,
my grandparents and then here here come all the ladies.
My mom stias, my sister is getting divorced, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah, I'm so curious.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
It's not real things.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
When I started dating, I learned to not tell people
at the beginning that I was divorced because I would
get unmatched. People would stop talking to me, and then
I was like, Okay, I gotta not say anything. But
then after a few hookups, I was like, wait, am
i am I trying to find a husband here? Like
(45:42):
what am I doing? Like? Who cares? Fuck them? So
then I just started screaming it and putting it on
my bio like I was just like, here to have
three husbands and maybe you know what I mean. Like
I was like, let's see what lands. But it was like,
people really know you're you've been divorced. I'm not interested.
And I was like it's twenty fifteen. What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Yeah, what are we doing here? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Wow. Well there's so many wonderful, impactful archetypes in this
book and so yeah, I hope everybody goes out and
reads it. How can folks support your book? Support your work?
And like, what do you want them to know? What
do you want them to take away from reading this book?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
I want people to just have conversations. I'm interested in conversations,
people generating new thoughts, new ideas. I'm interested in people
disagreeing or interested. I'm just interested in, like, where can
books like this that go trade, that go mainstream. Where
(46:50):
can the books like this lead us? Because I only
know academic books to do stuff like this for me,
and they're not in the public library. So I'm interested in,
like you know, in the Thanksgipping, you know, everybody's getting
together and then somebody bringing out that book and talking
some shit Like I want that. I want to ciate
some fights, some good conversations, you know. I think it's
(47:14):
I think it's good. I think we need it, and
I think we are too afraid of conflicts sometimes in
our families that Latina families just want to you know,
and that's all we care about is like, no, let's
let's let's talk about that one thing you did to
me two years ago.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Let's fight.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah, literally, yeah, I know, some healthy conflict. Well, thank
you Pridy Scott for joining us. This has been such
a fun interview. You're always welcome to come on look
at a radio.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Thank you. It's always good to see you all. Y'all
look more and more cozy and like in your element
every Time I Talk to y'all.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Radio is executive produced by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.
Stephanie Franco is our producer, story editing by Me viosa.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Creative direction by Me Mala look.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
At Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michaudura podcast network.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
You can listen to Lokata Radio on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Leave us a review and share with your Prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
And thank you to our local motives, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Besitos look Alumi
Lokata Radio is a radiophonic novela, which.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm fosa fem.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am ma la munos.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting
through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,
the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we
are still here.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're not done telling stories.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even
podcasting through a new decade of our lives.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Since twenty sixteen, we've been making locat Our Radio independently
until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Dura Network in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
From our Lips to your Ears, fall in love with
Loka to a radio like you never have before.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Season nine, Love at First Listen, O.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
La la Lokamotives. Welcome to Season nine of lok at
Dora Radio. I'm Viosa and I'm mala. Lok at Dora
Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present and
shifting the culture forward. You're tuning in to Capitulo Do
two thirteen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Last time on Look at Our radio. We talked about
some adventures we were shooting the shit, and I shared
a story about getting scammed by a fake taxi driver
in Mexico City, and I decided, okay, when we go
to Chipultepec, like I'm taking the puppet with me, I
named her Astrid. I like had her on my hand
the whole time because I was filming content with her.
And also like she was a crowd pleaser, like every
(01:37):
time there was a group of children, they were like esunajo.
Not there there was like a group of nuns that
really liked her. Like we were having fun with Astrid.
So we decide that on our way to the zoo,
go ahead, tune in, leave a review and share with
the friends. So we're back in studio. We're about to
interview an incredible guest that we've known for a very
(01:58):
very very long time, and we've had this person on
the podcast before. We used to run around with this
person all over the Instagram streets back in the day.
Shout out to those of you who followed Latina Rebels,
because we have on the show today Prisca Dorgas Mohika Rodriguez,
and she really needs no introduction, Like I said. She
(02:20):
founded the digital platform Latina Rebels in twenty thirteen. She
was born in Managua, Nicaragua, but she currently calls Nashville, Tennessee,
her home. Prisca is a feminist, theologian, storyteller and advocate.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
We interviewed Briska back in twenty twenty one to discuss
her book four Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.
You can tune into that episode Gopitolo one oh five
where we talk about Christianity, Satanism, and her debut book,
And today we're discussing her newly released book, her second book,
(02:53):
called theus Emprimus. In this book, she explores thea's empritimas
as archetypes. Fearlessly grappling with the effects of intergenerational trauma,
centuries of colonization, and sexism. She attempts to heal the
pain that is so often embodied in female family lines. So,
without further ado, we're so excited to welcome Brisca Rodriguez.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, so excited to.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Have you on today for the second time to talk
about your new book and all things I was reflecting
on our last time you came on and we literally
talked about Satanism. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's still one
of my favorite episodes ever.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Oh yeah, our favorite part of the interview, I think, yeah,
because we afterwards we were so like, wow, Satanism sounds
really good.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Are we Satanists?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Are we satan Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So like before we get into the book, though, like,
how are you doing? Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I know it's been I mean, I'm just busy. I'm
trying to write a novel right now, and I'm teaching
myself how to write a novel, so it just feels
like a different So the first two books, when I
write them, I get barely any edits back. I've turned
in my novel and I get destroyed. So it's like
(04:19):
a humbling experience too, because I know most authors go
through the experience of sending their editor stuff and it
just gets destroyed and you just have to get used
to that. I'm starting to have to get used to it.
So it's very stressful. You realize how much you like
equated your self worth to the thing that you do
when somebody destroys it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So as you're gearing up to talk about your second book,
you're gonna go on your book tour. You're doing all
your speaking engagements, which you've done for so many years,
for so long. Now you're also working on a novel.
Can you give us a little teaser about the novel?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Is there anything you can share? The premise?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
A line? The pitch is why. It's why. So it's
young adult and it's Judy Blooms.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Are you there?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
God, it's me Margaret. But it's a Latina thirteen years
old immigrant in Miami, And so she's going through the
same things I think that like we would think of
at that age range, like hormones and just figuring out
like why am I crying all the time? And what
are these bumps on my chest? Like all this stuff.
(05:31):
But she's also like translating documents for her parents, and
like in a really conservative church where she's coming to
the age where they're expecting her to speak in tongues
because she's old enough. So like she's like battling like
being a kid in the US, but also still having
a very immigrant religious experience and wanting to be her
(05:53):
own person, and learning to keep secrets from her parents
and then learning to keep secrets from her friends because
like you can't can't say, you can't explain everything about
how different you are to your friends in school. So
it's just like tumultuous teenager trying to live.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, don't go anywhere, lokomotives. We'll be right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Back, and we're back with more of our episode. It
sounds is this based on your life? Yeah? Okay, amazing.
It sounds like this sounds a little familiar. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, I haven't even changed the names yet. It's all people,
real people's names and stuff. I'll go through that at
some point in the legal review. But yeah, oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love that because you know, so much of your
work that you've done online, in print, digital has been
so deeply personal to you, just like your second book,
The Semprimas. So I think that that's a good jumping off.
You know, let's dive into the book. I've read through it.
It's masterpiece, beautiful. I think that this is something the
(07:06):
community is going to love again.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I know your first book was well received, we loved it.
It continues to be sold and is in like another print, right,
and so I see that same thing for Tias and Primas, right,
and so I wanted to pull a quote from the introduction,
because I think the introduction is just really situates us
(07:30):
and like, what this book is who you are, and
so I want to read this quote from you. And
while wonderful and great things happen when families gather, other
insidious and less beautiful things often occur too. And so
you're telling us like you're tasked with making a sense
of these archetypes and recognizing that they were created by
(07:51):
colonial and patriarchal structures, sexism, racism, all these things. And
so it's a really deep book, right, taking theory, and
you're making it super relatable, just like you did with
your last book.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So how did you.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Decide that this book, The Smbrimas, would be the follow
up to Brown Girls with Sharp Edges and Tender Hearts.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I didn't know I was going to be the follow
up until I feel like it's gonna feel really woo woo.
But like books tell you when they're ready to be written,
and I had written four proposals. I was going to
co write a feminist Bible study. I also pitched a
cookbook with a lot of the same messaging, but for
(08:36):
people who aren't going to pick up a chapter book,
but might pick up a cookbook. I pitched a graphic novel,
and then I pitched this one, and they were like, yeah,
they all sound wonderful. Pick which one you want to
move forward with so we can give you the edits
my agents and the pretty much just felt the most
(08:58):
build I guess the most. I'm the most that I
could actually write a whole book with, because in nonfiction,
you sell ideas of books, you don't sell finished books,
and so it was just ideas and it was like,
I think I can actually fill these pages. I'm in.
I was in that state of like hanging out with
a lot of friends. After the first book had published,
(09:20):
I went on a vacation with a bunch of girlfriends,
and it was just in the ether of our conversations,
like in a vacation with a friend. She was like,
she's the one who said, oh, yeah, those dignified senora
as who hold their purses really close and judge you.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I was like, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Know that woman, I know her, yeah, and that's my mom.
Like that, Like it was just coming and connecting and
the dots were becoming clear and I was like, I
can do this one. And so that was the first
one that felt like I could write and I could
sell the quickest. So that's how I ran with it.
But it also is like it's hard to focus on
(09:58):
one thing. So like I I started working in anthology
in the middle of this book, and I started thinking
about the novel in the middle of this book. You
can't like decide what your body wants to do and
what stories are dying to get out. But yeah, I
felt the most ready. I call it like cooked.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I love that beautiful. For a basic beginning to this interview,
can you give us an introduction to yourself, your age,
your occupation as you define it, anything else you want
to share as far as who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, I'm thirty nine years old, I'm first generation college
grad immigrant, and I am a full time author, which
is crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
An author you are, Yes, I love that, and you
know another you know, I'm just going to see you
praises today. But another thing that I love about the
intro is like you have this really great quote the
sentence right that's I am but a comma and a
long list of Latina is writing about our experiences through
different lenses. And that was so powerful to me because
(11:07):
I feel like we have this way as a community
of like making one person like the voice of the community,
and that's so much pressure, and I feel like you
kind of address it in this way where you're like,
this is just one experience from my POV, from my worldview,
so can you expand on bringing that to this book.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, I think especially as I've been doing y'all know,
like I've been doing speaking engagements for years, and I
constantly get emails around like but this is a mixed
gender group, can you do something for everyone? And I'm like, what, No,
no one can, what are you talking about? And so
I think it was It's it's like I feel like
(11:48):
I continue to try to remind people like there is
no singular Latina experience. There is no Latina experience. There's
even this book is very If things don't write, it's
because it wasn't your experience, and that's okay. Like I
think we get in the way of our own selves too,
(12:09):
like this isn't my experience, so this this author must
be wrong. Instead of no, this author is informed by
so many other things. I think, like white people have
told us their experiences are all our experiences, and we
just like continue that mindset, be like pick up a
thing that doesn't make any sense to us, and we're like,
(12:30):
we'll make a fit. It's like the Cinderella stepsisters. But no,
I don't think it. I don't think it works that way.
And the more I've been around long enough to where
like after Latini that came into this scene that was
like doing speaking engagement, It's like that wasn't a thing
that was conversational at the beginning, and so like, not
(12:52):
that there weren't black Latinis, but it was like now
we had a name for it, and now they need
to be acknowledged and have their own space for that.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It was.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
It's all been something that I've had to live on
air figure out, like, don't pigeonhole me into this one
singular I can speak for all of us because I can't,
and I refuse to be forced into it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Love it. And on that note, who do you write for?
And as you've been coming up and doing your own
reading and you're, you know, undergoing your own educational processes,
who was writing for you?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I think I write for Latinas. I think it's more
a millennial Latina for sure, Latinas who went to Pwi's
Latinas who were raised with really strict conservative Christian parents,
Like who understand when I say speaking in tongues like
that's the Latina I get. I get, I can get
(13:51):
really niche with it, like speaking in tongues like people
fainting backwards because the Holy Spirit annointed them. Like I
speak to a particular kind of Latina that understood hyper
religion through a colonial lens, like our colonialism was Christianity
as we understood it. And I think growing up I
(14:16):
was a big reader, but I like was introduced to
San Rasists and that's kind of it. Even in Miami,
like there wasn't this huge push to have representation. I
think Miami Latins are interesting. I mean we could see
it in the politics of Miami, and I've learned that
(14:36):
in distance from Miami. I was like, oh, y'all loved whiteness,
got it? That was That was good to know. But
I didn't read stuff that represented me. So I read
in grad school Glorian Saldua and Cheri Moraga and it
was there that I saw. And even Sandra Sists. I
always talk about this one essay where she talks about
her her pussy and it was brown her she I
(15:00):
think she calls it pano chap, but I think she
also says pussy. But is that when I was like,
we're saying, we're saying that shit. Like I remember looking around, like, wait,
we're just talking about this openly. So it took to me,
being in my late twenties based mid to late twenties,
for me to read people to be like, oh, we
(15:20):
can tell our stories in a different way and it
can be really specific and people will get it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I love that you brought up that that writing by
Santa Cisnetto's about her pano chap, because you know, for everyone,
their introduction to Santa cis Neto's is, of course the
house on Mango Street, which I get it iconic, right,
it's celebrating like an anniversary this year. But her writing
is super political too, But that's not necessarily the introduction
that we have of her.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It is like in her essays, I think are the
the more groundbreaking stuff that really was like, oh I
think I'm your fan, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And political and all these fat things, but sexual as well.
So I'm really curious too about the conversations around sex,
sexuality and the body that Sandra Cisnettos was having given
your upbringing and your background, like how did those two
things come together when you're reading an author like that.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean, I had my sexual awakening in my graduate program.
So I got divorced and was like, let's let's fuck around,
let's figure this stuff out. Because it did. It did
awaken a lot in me. It made me realize how
much shame I had to sexuality, my own sexuality, how
much I had like equated love to sex, how much
(16:42):
I had equated even my worth to my body's ability
to do what my mom would be, like the thing
where women were meant to do. And so I this
point when I read this that stuff, I had had
multiple miscarriages and it was like, okay, it's not working.
So I hate this body. And I went through three
years of celibacy while married, and then I was reading
(17:03):
this stuff and there was I remember, I just like
became hungry for hot dogs and I was also I
became vegetarian those three years too. And I woke up
it was twenty thirteen January and I was like, I
just want a hot dog. And I was like insatiable
about a hot dog. But it was just like this
beginning of like I just I want me and I
also want to get fucked, and it really, I mean
(17:27):
it resulted in me getting divorced and really just exploring
all over Nashville what that felt like for me.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I think that's our quote. I want meat and I
really want to get fucked. That's perfect.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
We hope you're enjoying this interview.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Stay tuned, we're back, and we hope you enjoy the
rest of the interview.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I love that. You know what, there is a correlation
for me with becoming exiting vegetarianism and also starting to
have sex with men.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Really, Oh my god, what is that about.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I've never pieced those two together. Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
In a second, we need to conduct a scientific study.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, I know, I need everything.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
What was the me?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh dah, I love it. Wow, that's a great that's
a great story. And like you know, we see that
in in we see some of pieces of that in
the new book. And so I wanted I want us
to dive into some of the archetypes in this book,
which you mentioned are an amalgamation of multiple people. So
(18:48):
I thought we could like maybe pick a couple and
like talk about them. I have a couple prepared, but
if you want to, like pick a couple to talk about, like.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
What do you think whatever?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I always want to talk about the theao c's ghosts,
but I feel like nobody's bringing it up.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And in her head, let's do ithost?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Can we can? I ask to like why theas and primas?
Like why write about THEA and primas? And then let's
talk about the THEA.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
I think the first book was like it activated a
lot of like autoimmune response stuff for me. I think
my body and I'm still figuring out in therapy, but
I think my body has been like pissed at me
for saying all the things that I said and writing
a lot of things that I had never really talked
to anybody about. And so I knew that if I
(19:36):
was going to do this long term, I needed to
write differently. And so Theas and Primas gave me like
a little distance because it's based on visually. I don't
know if you've ever read this book. It's called like
Love Loss And what I wore is this like picture
book of this woman in her life and it's just
these stick figures and she just like draws her little
(19:57):
black dress she wore on such and such she went on,
and it felt like fun to read it. And I
read it like as a senior in high school where
I was reading really intense books, but I picked up
this weird picture book and I was like, Okay, I
want images with this, and I want this to feel lighter.
I want this to feel like you know, when you're
like going on TikTok and there's like a comedian who's
(20:19):
like your THEA who's always partying, or your ta who's
cleaning the house before her mom gets there or whatever.
I wanted a little that infused into it, that felt
less hard on my own body as I wrote through
this stuff. The same message, but it's just like a
different approach.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I love that. And I was going to ask you
about the illustrations at the end, but since you brought
it up. First of all, is that Connie in Latia Queen.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
When I saw that, I was like, that's my girl, Connie.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
He wiled her.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
It was likely it looks just like her image.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, yeah, not everyone's going to catch that.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I did. I did, definitely, So let's talk about it.
So the illustrations by Josie del Castillo. You mentioned already
like why you wanted to maybe give some like levity
to the book in that way, So how did you
pick you know, I see throughout the book that some
of the illustrations are you, some obviously not like Connie.
(21:20):
So how did you decide, like did you use reference
photos of friends? Like how did you decide who was
going to be included in the book in that way?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I have a lot of pictures of family, so a
lot of them are family. But it's also like I
knew I'm trying to make the point that like chosen
family is a real thing. And so I also started
reaching out to friends that I was like, can I
use this beautiful image of you? I promise I'm not
writing about you. I just need an image that feels
(21:50):
like the character of this person. And yeah, they were
just like, go ahead, use this image. And it was
it was a matter of like what felt like the needed.
Yeah I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So let's talk about the thea who sees phantasmas? Like
who is she? You know, I mean folks listening won't
be able to see you have to buy the book,
but like there's this like really great image of like
the thea who sees phantasmas.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
She seems cool, so let's talk about her.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Let's talk about this archetype.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I love this one because I think, uh, white people,
you know, like because they run industries. It's like a
real thing, right, you have to confront them and pitch
things to them, you all know, and they like love
buzzy things about us. They love like, oh, look at
(22:45):
talk about your immigrant story, like they really want to
know particular things about the Latina experience. And so I
was approached by Spotify to pitch a podcast, and I
was like, bet it took me like an hour. I
was like, I've been dreaming of this moment my whole life.
And I pitched this podcast called Fantastmas and it was
(23:06):
going to talk about ghost stories but also like visit
haunted places, do ouiji board readings, and like just do
talk with the candle. I don't know if you've ever
done the flame thing, but do that, like do to
it all. Because I'm on the cusp of like I
believe in ghosts, but I also I'm like, oh, but
(23:29):
maybe it's just my imagination, you know. So I'm like
I want to prove myself right or wrong. And they
never call.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Me back rude.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But I think it's like that they like us, but like,
don't be like that, don't be that weird. That's a
little bit that yeah, yeah, and so like I've been
fascinated with that. Like I can talk to a lot
of people about a lot of things. A minute, I
talk about ghosts. Only other Latinas or people from the
Global South stick around. That's really when white people divest
(24:01):
from the room, they're like, oh, this is clinical and
you need to like call a professional. That's my favorite
one because I also have a ghost in this house.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So oh yeah. I mean I see a quote here
about how like you're shocked when people tell you that
they've never let me read it. I was floored to
hear that some people have not heard their parents tell
a single personal encounter with a ghost. I also can't
think of anyone that hasn't had an experience with a ghost.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You know, my I mean definitely, like, oh, a deceased
relative visiting someone at the foot of their bed or
in their room or on a special occasion. Those things
happen all the time.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah, that's normal.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's not necessarily like a pneumonia in your closet, but like, yeah, like,
oh I felt my you know, Awalito come and like
visit me in my dream, and then I felt him
the next day in the kitchen you.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Know what have you? Yeah? So much so I think
people are even compacts about it, like no, he visited
me actually yesterday, so I don't know if he's visited
you yet, but I saw him.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Same.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I grew up with so many ghost stories. I heard
everyone's ghost story. I know everytha's most scary ghost story
and the funniest one that they'll retell. Like my partner,
who you all know is white, is like never, we
don't talk about that. WHOA.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Do you think it's that they don't see them or
they don't want to.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Talk about it or both, or are the ancestors not
visiting them. They're not. I think they are. Okay, they are, okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, because my ghost here is a white man. They're here.
They're just not paying attention to them.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
That is why in the horror movies they stay in
the house the longest.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yes, right, yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Well, I also want to ask you about the very
first archetype, which is la la matrica, la matriarch, right,
because this was so poignant for me to read, because
I really loved what you said about how and actually,
not every family's going to have a matriarch and it's
not clearly defined, and you do define what a matriarch is,
(26:17):
but I've always felt that about my mom's side of
the family, that there's when my grandmother passed. She passed
when I was a year old, so I never met her.
I realized like, oh, we don't have a matriarch, and
so this was like really really profound for me to
really think about my family structure and maybe the way
you theorize, like why this happens and who the matriarch
(26:38):
is and why that is. So I want to know
why was it important to you to situate la matriarch
at the top of the book The very first archetype
we are introduced to is la matriarch.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I would love to have a wonderful answer for this,
but the editor decided it okay because it is hard
for me to even think of an order my first
book too. It was like somebody organized and I was like,
oh my god, thank you. Sometimes you're too close to
a thing to see how a reader will react to it,
(27:14):
and I was definitely too close to the thing. But
when she put that first, I was like.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, yeah, perfection, I love I love it first, and
I was curious. I was wondering if this was like
you know, when you think of like an album, right,
an album like sometimes has a story and the songs
are placed in a certain way. So I was wondering
if the book was the same way. But that's fine too,
because I think that you know, the chapters, I mean,
the books starts really strong with this because it's like,
(27:42):
even if we don't have matriarchs in our family, we
know what a matriarch is, right, and we have like
a definition in our mind or a story, a person,
an image, even if we don't have one.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Yeah, And I mean she told me her thought process
around it. It was that it was, this is a
weird book to come into because of the way that
it's written, and so this situates everybody will understand once
they get to the Matriarch and read it, what type
of book this is. To then read the other it
gets from most common I think to most niche is was.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Her process to most niche Okay, interesting, it's.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Sort of like it's sort of like a very poetic
family tree, and like a very specific family tree. Not
everybody is on there, only the essential branches.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I think so too, And I think that there were
some I want that in club. It was just like
I don't know that personally, and I don't like I
wanted to have the gothritima that I just didn't grow
up with a gothritima, but I know they're so freaking common. Yeah,
Or the queer pritimo who hangs out with the patimas.
I wanted to have him too. I wrote him and
it just was like, I don't think it's my it's
(28:58):
I don't think it's my story to tell.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I see that. I see that, and I noticed that too.
So this this kind of illuminates that for me because
there I did notice that there are more theas and
there are primas. Yeah was that intentional?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah? Yeah, I think as I'm becoming as I am
a thea now, it was just the ones that I'm
I'm surrounded by theas. It's the ones that feel closer
to me now that I'm like, oh, this is who
we're all becoming, this is who we're all feeling like
now in this stage.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Really interesting and just because of the age dynamic. Well,
I guess a prima can be of any age, really,
and a thea can be of any age. I mean,
especially like the way that Latinos have kids. Sometimes like
your THEO could be younger than you, right, like just
kind of depending how things go. Yeah, but in theory,
like the thea feels more adult, right, and prima feels
(29:55):
like somebody you grew up with. And maybe like a
thea is a little bit more fully formed their identity,
and maybe a prima is like young or in a
state of growth or transition or going through a phase.
And so I don't know, how do you like tease
that out? Like these different archetypes are these fixed like identities?
Are these things that change? How do you how did
(30:15):
you work that out?
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I do talk about like even with the matriarch, I
mentioned she's someone's thea, she's someone's prima. So I do
mention that, but it wasn't constructing it, like there's the
prima who doesn't like other women. That felt like it
had to be a prima because I don't. I don't
have very manythas who are that naive about the existence
of men as oppressor, like my theas feel quick with it,
(30:41):
like so Masura, like these words just come out of
them really quickly. Whereas I feel like you have to
be younger to sort of still cling to the men,
like like Arima who won't who doesn't like other women would.
Uh so Yeah, some felt like she has to be young,
she has to be figuring out this stuff that feels
(31:02):
so blatant later.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Right, she's still like in her she's a pigmy prima.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, she doesn't know that, I realize. Yeah, give her
like a few heartbreaks or a few your dad telling
you or something, it starts to fall into place real quick.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, and and you kind of touch on this in
the book, but I want to hear you talk about it,
like can we like move around?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Can we like start as like the pretty prima and
then become Latya loka like you.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So like how did you how did you see this?
You know these archetypes in like how maybe they start
as like a prima that's like the pretty prima and
then becomes like the Latia guird, the MLMDA you know
what I mean?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Like, yeah, can we like move around? I try to
hold that at tension a lot when I talk about the.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Beaus.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I do believe that can come from a perfecta mm hm.
So that like I try to hold that tension of like,
sometimes shit happens and you transform right before your very eyes.
So yeah, and I'm very much throughout as I'm telling
each archetype. I'm also like and I'm sort of like
that too, and I'm sort of like this too, Like
(32:22):
I think I'm like seventeen of them, So like, I
definitely believe there's just snapshots of like the whole point
is that we're much more complex. So it's the idea
that your Tiao sees Phantasma's is also child free and
like the young thea, all those things can happen, And
(32:42):
I think that that's kind of the fun part of
it is just trying on the hats that fit the most.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Have you it's very grey gardens that transition from pretty
pretty much to it's very great garden. It's very little,
eaty but love. It really is. But I'm wondering if
you've had primas and theas of your own who have
read the book and who see themselves in it and
who identify themselves.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
So my family doesn't read my stuff amazing, I'm so
la loocha that I need prayer, okay, and they don't.
They think I'm like some sort of innlemoniala or just
I've I've lost my way, which is kind of what
when I wrote La Loka. There's like a little anger
in that chapter because it felt like naming the thing
(33:32):
that I don't get to name with them, because the
minute I get angry, I just prove to them that
I'm lost. I just prove to them that I'm I'm
no longer with Jesus and you know, Satan has taken
over my body because I'm so angry and why are
you so angry if you're so happy? Like they'll use
any emotion that I have about the silence that they're
(33:53):
giving me to like fuel there further silencing. So like, yeah,
they don't read me and they're not interested in what
I have to say because I'm la loca.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I love that the chapter of Letaa Loka because you know,
I really wanted to talk about that, because it wouldn't
be a loka at that episode without us talking about
Latia looka, you know, and you talk about how you
write about how sometimes a loca is born out of nurturing, parenting,
and encouragement to be their own person, and sometimes la
loca is made out of friction and pain. And so
(34:28):
I want to ask you, like, either where the THEA
looka like we self identify as a the aloka we're
called the tia looka or we have at thea looka.
How can we support and love.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
This thea is sort of viewed in the same way
that the matriarch is, and it's kind of like she
doesn't she doesn't need any help. She she's got this,
she's strong. Clearly she's doing all this stuff. She's got this.
And I think that that's like a there's like a
there's a tweet that's like check in on your strong friend,
(35:02):
check in on your ta loka, check in on your matriarch,
check in on the oldest daughter. Like the specific people
are carrying a lot more than they should, and specific
people I think are healing wounds from our families that
no one else even wants to mention. So I think
it's it's check in and like make sure that they
(35:24):
know that you do care about them, because it is
easy to hear. It's the voices that are telling you
I'm praying for you sometimes feel louder than the voices
that are like I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I love that. Yeah that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Did you so on this the like self identifying as
this THEA? Is that something that there was a specific
moment in time when you were like, yep, this is me,
I'm tia la loka or was that something that was
put on you and you like found out and then
like one day you realize like, oh, I'm that person, and.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
It's it's moments of constantly finding out. And I was
told that I have my loka my knuckles because when
I decided to get divorce. I mean, Mommy on the
phone scream does locus do LOOKA? And I hung up
on her as she was screaming that, and so I
(36:23):
got that tattooed because I was like maybe I I mean,
I think that it takes a certain level of a
disconnect from the reality that I had been raised in
to do what I've been able to do since. So
it is I think it's a complicated term because it's
(36:43):
also like you know, in the spaces that we tend
to navigate is like, don't use the word crazy, You're
not crazy. There's people who are actually mentally insane and
like don't appropriate, like or further stigmatize some people's realities.
And I think that that's valid, and some of us
get to reclaim words that are used to hurt us,
(37:05):
or words that categorically, categorically we might fit into. I
talk about in the book I Have, I've been diagnosed
with this associate of disorder because of my experiences, I
can sort of leave my body and so like clinically
I'm also a loca, and I get to claim that, like,
those are wounds that were given to me, those are
(37:27):
experiences that harmed me, and these are coping mechanisms that
I live with today. So yeah, maybe I am la loca,
and people remind me of that pretty casually.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I think too, Like the thing about the word crazy
in the word loka, it is like, even the way
we live our lives today, take us back thirty forty years,
we would have been institutionalized for living our lives this way.
So it's not that far fetched to be like, yes,
I am la loca, you know, and I'm going to
reclaim that for myself, because you really would have institutionalized
me for wanting a divorce, for having anasm like for
(38:01):
being a lesbian. So you know, I don't know, I
just wanted to point that out.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
And in our countries maybe even like depending on how
rural you get, yeah, and how loud you're being, that
label is still a thing.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
It's also this odd, this odd like tension where it's like, oh,
calling you crazy for getting a divorce, right, is like
divorce happens every day, people get divorced. It's a pretty
normal thing. It's like, not that crazy, actually no, So
it's like, don't put that label on this pretty run
(38:38):
of the mill like decision. On the other hand, it's
almost like even though your mom was saying that with
a negative energy, on some levels, she was like identifying
a truth about you, right that you have like come
to like claim. And I don't know. It's that thing
with moms in particular, where it's like my mom is
(38:58):
saying something to me that I don't like and it's
actually kind of wrong, but also she's kind of right,
and so now what do I do with this?
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Yeah? And for me it was like fuck it. Yeah,
than I am and I show up as that at
your house and I'll make you uncomfortable and I'm not
code switching for you like I used to all that. Yeah,
I will show up fully as you have. You know,
knighted me to be.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Right. The floodgates are open, like we can all agree,
so it's agreed, we agree.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, like watch me.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I love that because you also have, of course the
divorce THEA as the archetype, and you so brilliantly tie
it with purity culture. And so I want to talk
about that more because I feel like purity culture and
the correlation with like trad wives, right, it's like on
(39:56):
the rise. It's like very ol popular. Yeah, it's like
a mainstream, like young girls are aspiring to be tradwives,
and so you know it. I wanted to Yeah, I
think with that background, I want to hear more about
you know, the archetype of the divorce THEA in the book,
and like how you see that tiede with purity culture.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
So I grew up with a Theia who is divorce
and who never remarried and moved back with her mom,
and uh it was it was very hush tones about
it and very shameful that she was divorce and me,
mommy would even like you can never get divorce like
you make a pact in front of God. So when
(40:40):
I got divorced and got sort of that wrath of
how dare you, how dare you think you can provide
an alternate opportunity for anyone in this family, or an
alternate script than the one that we're all supposed to follow,
I really started to think about that theah a lot.
(41:02):
And I mean the way she dated was so secretive,
the way that she moved was so secretive, the way
that she carried shame was so in our faces that
I knew what my options were. It was except my
mom calling me crazy. She she was like, you got
(41:22):
to move back home, like she wanted, let's let's do it.
I'm ready to be my mom. I'm ready to have
you at my home. I remember I did move me
briefly back home and she's like, just go to the
bar and get pregnant. I like, it's your baby.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
I just don't ever be with a man again, don't
get married. But like, let's have a kid. I'll help
you raise it. Like it was very strange. I was
just like, what am I? What are you? What are
you trying to tell me to do? You think I
was thirty. I was like, you think now I'm Dune.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, but you put me on to a pasture.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
What the fuck. So that archetype felt really important because
of my context, because I do write for somebody who
i'ms from a really churched context. I've seen other divorced
women in the way that they operate in the church,
the way even I had a boyfriend in high school.
(42:17):
It was the first official boyfriend, like claimed right, not
like a secret one, and we were supposed to obviously
we talked about marriage. Was he'd like talk to my
parents to like date me with a chaperone, and my
mom sat him down once and said, she's not Brisilla.
I don't think it's gonna end up with you because
(42:38):
your mom is divorced.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Oh my god, I'm dead.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And he would like he was really hurt by it.
He would like bring it up randomly, like with like
your mom said, I'm not good enough because my mom's divorced,
and like it really hurt him. And I was like,
I can't, I can't ever date anyone to speak Spanish.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
The knives were out girls, things these.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Parents can say and like cutting. So yeah, this archetype
felt very particular because I heard a lot about divorced
women that was never good. So I was like, why, why, God,
that's why.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
That's why this is so interesting fascinating because Okay, so
the divorce for your mom like triggered something and she's like,
you know what, fuck it, all proprieties out the window,
Let's just have a baby.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
You know, it's like, well we've already we've gotten the divorce, we've.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Broken in the bag anymore, you know, all the.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Pomp and circumstance. Who cares, Let's just get straight to it.
And those things were so important leading up to Yeah,
like in your youth probably I'm coming from a Catholic background.
The way that they hammer all of save yourself for
a marriage and never get divorced and have a family
and until the day you die, that is just hammered in.
(44:02):
And I'm cracking up because recently my mom made a comment.
She was talking to another parent of someone that I
grew up with, and we're now all in our thirties
and none of us are married and none of us
have kids, and so my mom and this other parent
were joking, they were like, you know what, we don't
even care about all that merrige stuff anymore, Like we
just want grandkids, like we don't care how they do it,
(44:22):
like just do it, just get it, give me a baby.
All of a sudden, all that stuff does, all the
rules are gone. They're like we're just however you do it,
just do it, just do something, give us something.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, just fulfill me now, yes, yes, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, I'm so curious. I want to go home and
ask my mom about this because all of my mom's
my mom included and her sisters, there's five of them total,
they were all divorced and like, now I'm wondering, like,
and my grandparents were religious, but I don't remember them
being like like oh, like you're done, you know, like
they were very like, okay, well we're gonna help you
raise your grandkids. And they moved away around between Texas
(45:00):
and California depending on who was getting divorced, literally, and
they were like the support system. So I'm so curious now,
like I want to go ask, like how did they
feel about divorce because they were married for fifty years,
my grandparents and then here here come all the ladies.
My mom stias, my sister is getting divorced, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah, I'm so curious.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
It's not real things.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
When I started dating, I learned to not tell people
at the beginning that I was divorced because I would
get unmatched. People would stop talking to me, and then
I was like, Okay, I gotta not say anything. But
then after a few hookups, I was like, wait, am
i am I trying to find a husband here? Like
(45:42):
what am I doing? Like? Who cares? Fuck them? So
then I just started screaming it and putting it on
my bio like I was just like, here to have
three husbands and maybe you know what I mean. Like
I was like, let's see what lands. But it was like,
people really know you're you've been divorced. I'm not interested.
And I was like it's twenty fifteen. What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Yeah, what are we doing here? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Wow. Well there's so many wonderful, impactful archetypes in this
book and so yeah, I hope everybody goes out and
reads it. How can folks support your book? Support your work?
And like, what do you want them to know? What
do you want them to take away from reading this book?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
I want people to just have conversations. I'm interested in conversations,
people generating new thoughts, new ideas. I'm interested in people
disagreeing or interested. I'm just interested in, like, where can
books like this that go trade, that go mainstream. Where
(46:50):
can the books like this lead us? Because I only
know academic books to do stuff like this for me,
and they're not in the public library. So I'm interested in,
like you know, in the Thanksgipping, you know, everybody's getting
together and then somebody bringing out that book and talking
some shit Like I want that. I want to ciate
some fights, some good conversations, you know. I think it's
(47:14):
I think it's good. I think we need it, and
I think we are too afraid of conflicts sometimes in
our families that Latina families just want to you know,
and that's all we care about is like, no, let's
let's let's talk about that one thing you did to
me two years ago.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Let's fight.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah, literally, yeah, I know, some healthy conflict. Well, thank
you Pridy Scott for joining us. This has been such
a fun interview. You're always welcome to come on look
at a radio.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Thank you. It's always good to see you all. Y'all
look more and more cozy and like in your element
every Time I Talk to y'all.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Radio is executive produced by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.
Stephanie Franco is our producer, story editing by Me viosa.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Creative direction by Me Mala look.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
At Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michaudura podcast network.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
You can listen to Lokata Radio on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Leave us a review and share with your Prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
And thank you to our local motives, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Besitos look Alumi
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