September 25, 2024 • 43 mins
After the U.S. Presidential Debate, Trump's false claims about the Haitian community in Ohio went viral, but in the form of memes, TikTok dances, and song parodies. In this week's capítulo, we breakdown what we're calling The Memeifcation of Evil. We get into how memes influence public discourse, who's most effected by them, and why evil shouldn't be funny.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Lok a thought. Our radio is a radiophonic novela, which.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm fiosa fem.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am Ma la Munos.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting
through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,
the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we
are still here.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're not done telling stories.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even
podcasting through a new decade of our lives.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Since twenty sixteen, we've been making Loca thro Our Radio
independently until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Dura Network in twenty
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
From our Lips to your Ears, Fall in love with
Loka to a radio like you never have before.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Season nine. Love that first.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Listen, Olao la Loka Motes. Welcome to Season nine of
lok At Dora Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm the Osa and I'm Mala.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Lok at Tora Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving
our present and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning in
to Capitroro cientos Kinsen two fifteen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Last time on LOCATORA Radio, we interviewed Linda Garcia, who
is running uncontested in the upcoming November election for the
office of Texas State rep for District one oh seven.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Could see that I had been doing the work, and
so the work means that I had been taking steps
to work with our community and shift current circumstances in
our community. And so for a lot of people, that
is what a public servant does.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That is what she is slated to be sworn in
January twenty twenty four. It is a really juicy, informative interview,
so make sure you tune in, leave a comment, subscribe
and share with a friend.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So how are you doing, Mala, Oh, I'm doing really well.
Why are you doing really well?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
For a variety of reasons, life is just to go
my way right now. I'm really like my lucky Girl
syndrome is at its peak. I think in these moments,
school is going well. There are like some fun things
happening on the personal front that I will not divulge.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And you know, we have our two weekly shows and
now we're like very much underway with Senora sex Ed,
which is super exciting. Especially because it's been years in
the making.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, we have five episodes out so far, five episodes
of a thirty episode season, and we just have been
fully in production for a while now, and so it's
really fun to be putting out the episodes finally and
also to be booking the new guest as well.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And we haven't launched a brand new original show that
we are co producing and co hosting since we launched
lok at Thought our radio, So this is our first
time putting out a whole new project as look at
Thought our productions in collectoration with my podcast network. But
it's been really fascinating to me to watch the show,
(03:06):
Senora Sex said, go from an idea to even like recording,
to then seeing it take on its own identity, its
own style, its own vibe, and sort of like letting
the show reveal itself to us and each guest really
kind of bringing a different lens, a different topic, a
different angle that I don't think we can always we
(03:28):
can We can't always predict, you know, like what a
guest is going to bring to the show, and we
and like letting that happen and then like following the
lead of the guest has been really fun.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I agree. I think that that's what makes Senora
Sex said different from Loka Tora, where we're giving the
guests the space to really tell their own story and
it's not about a specific project that they're working on
or specific moment a current moment. Really, when we talk
about Loka Tora, we're archiving the present and so very
(03:59):
much we're talking talking about an artist, a creative and
activist and what they're doing right now in this present
moment where a Senora Sex said, we're really giving the
guests the opportunity to reflect on their upbringing, their family,
anything related to sex and sexuality. And I love when
they have these moments where they're sharing something for the
first time or in real time, you can see them like, oh,
(04:23):
I actually never thought about it that way, but now
that I'm saying it out loud to you both, I
can really see it or I can think about it
in this way. And so I think that's what makes
the show really unique and different from Look at Thota Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I agree, it's extremely personal, and I think in more
recent seasons Locator has gotten less like personal and less
putting the private out for the public. But Senora Sexad
is that space where our guests can very much do that,
and it's been cool to see how our guests, like
Aida Rodriguez talked about feeling really safe during the interview
(04:58):
to go there and talk about deep issues and difficult
memories and maybe traumas that she hasn't talked about out
loud necessarily outside of her book. So it's just been
really cool. And our most recent episode, while at the
time of this recording, features a mother daughter pair that
I am so excited to have on the show, Lily
(05:19):
and Lethisia Roldan. If you tune into Senora Sex Said,
you're gonna notice we have a recurring segment. It's a
house call from doctor Roldan and she's giving us her
OBGYN resident physician input on some of the topics that
our guests bring up, whether it's perimenopause or masturbation, what
have you, or a myth busting around the hymen. The
(05:44):
hymen I forgot the word. We talked about it so
much that I forgot the word. But now she has
her own episode with her mom where we talk about
their own journey on Senora Sex Said, and really her
journey to becoming a gynecologist. So it's a very fun episode,
very full, so make sure you go and tune in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah. I love all of the episodes so far, but
I especially feel really connected and really like tenderhearted about
the mother daughter conversations because again, you can see in
real time mother daughters processing their relationship, their understanding of
sex and sexuality, not only about themselves, but also of
(06:22):
their mothers or their counterparts, depending who it is, and
so that has also been really beautiful to see. And
you know, we're not necessarily defining Senora sext as an archive,
but when I think about like oral tradition and a
mother daughter story, I'm like, we've just archived this for
them and they can listen to it for as long
as the feed exists. And to me, that's something so
(06:42):
special because as we know, like as our parents' age,
there's all these stories you want to capture. And I
really feel like for the mother daughter episodes, it really
is that time capsule because it's not just present day
how we're processing, but it's looking back on their childhoods,
looking into the future if they want to become mothers themselves,
and having those dialogues with their mother and so I
(07:05):
think that that's something really special about the show.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It's super special.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And when have we seen these types of mother daughter
conversations in one place.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
In a Latino Latina LATINX context. Yeah, talking about sex
and sexuality. And we'll have guests that are like, I
want to do it, but my mom isn't down. And
of course we're not going to force the sangnona. You know,
we're not going to even our own moms. Like when
we were starting the show, like they had said yes
and they were down, and then as like it came
(07:37):
down to interviewing, there was a little more hesitancy and
so we haven't actually booked them yet. I'm still hoping
that my mom will listen to one of the mother
daughter episodes and understand the vibe and the goal of
the show and not feel too shy about it. But yeah,
we're not going to force anyone, but I do hope
that I can get her on eventually.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we the jury still out on our moms, but
we are grateful to our guests and their moms for
being so open and vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And we took it a step further.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
We went with Victory House to the Santa Fe Spring
swap meat and live and in person and on camera.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
We just approached.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Random women, mothers and daughters, and we asked them if
we could give them like a brief interview about how
they learned about sex and sexuality. And we interviewed some
really great women who were funny, who were really they
just wanted to talk about it. They were down, and
you know, it's not every day that someone approaches you
at the swap meet to ask, you know, how did
(08:39):
you learn about sex? But totally and some were not down.
Some were like absolutely not, no, thank you. And some
who were there with like boyfriends or male partners. I
think we're shy, which is fine, but go to our
instagram and check out that clip from the Santa Fe
Springs Swap Meat.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It was really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, and I think they're I don't know if this
is a generalization, but I think so far what we've seen,
it's either your super down to talk about sex and
sexuality and sex ed or you're not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't know if we've found that in between, because
I think to be in that in between, you're gonna
you're still gonna, You're gonna go to one side or
the other. You're gonna go more towards no or more
towards yes. So it's it has been really fun to
talk to the women, the signals especially that are like yes,
I want to talk about this because no one's ever
talked to me about it before. It's fun. Subscribe leave
(09:29):
a review for that show as well. It's a brand
new feed, so we're growing the audience. We have one
review so far and it's a very sweet review. So
if you want to contribute, we would love that so
so much.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
On Apple podcasts and on Spotify.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yes, all streaming platforms, but especially the Apple pod and
the Spotify. If you can leave five stars, if you
can leave a review, that would be greatly appreciated. Don't
go anywhere, Lokamotives. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And we're back with more of our episode.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So today, aside from our general check in and talking
about our new show, Total Mood Shift, it's election season.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yes, it is again again. It's always election season. It
feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Every well, every presidential election. Obviously we've covered it because
we've been in existence for eight years, nine seasons, but
local elections we cover two. But we're seeing like it's
not even Trump two point zero it's like Trump three
point oh because this is his third time running wild,
which like, I'm an abolitionist until it comes to these
(10:46):
shitty men.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah under the jail, Yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Please. Today we're talking about the presidential election, but more
specifically the recent live debate between Kamala Harris and Donald
Trump that took place on September tenth.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So if you guys tuned in, then you probably saw that,
among other things, donald Trump started talking about Haitian immigrants
in Springfield, quote eating dogs, eating cats, eating the pets
of the people that live there in Springfield. So, of course,
when something like this happens, Donald Trump gives us a inflamed,
(11:27):
ridiculous racist SoundBite, the internet goes wild, right, it gets
picked up and it's spread like wildfire. And we see
a quote like that not only covered in the news
and not only dissected by commentators, but we see what
we're calling the memification of a statement like that, right,
(11:48):
people making tiktoks. It's becoming a sound it's becoming its
own meme. We want to sort of talk about all
the implications of that and analyze that that process.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Before we go into our own ANALYSI of what it
means when someone like Trump becomes a meme. Also want
to just set the stage as to what has been
going on the past week. So during the during the debate,
it was moderated by two journalists, Lindsay Davis and David Muir,
(12:18):
and they were fact checking in real time, which I
really appreciated because a lot of people won't go back
and check and fact check afterwards. There are fact checking,
there is fact checking that happens by certain outlets after
the fact, but I think it being live was super
important and really critical. And as they were fact checking
(12:39):
this claim that Trump made about quote Haitian immigrants eating pets,
David Muir fact checked in real time and said, there
are actually no reports. The city commissioner has said there
are no reports of immigrants or anyone eating pets, eating cats,
eating dogs, and really challenged that narrative that he was stating,
(13:00):
and so essentially it was baseless, right, But of course
he ran with it, and the Republican Party ran with it,
or members of the Republican Party ran with it, and
since then there have been real life implications as to
the statements that he made.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
And of course, you know, Donald Trump comes from a
reality TV background. I think a big part of his
staying power at this point has been his sort of
ability to capture a public media moment and give his
folks a SoundBite and something that can be clipped and
(13:37):
quoted and shared and memified, and in essence he launches
into this well and we're talking about this episode as
the memification of evil, right, and where he takes something
super diabolical and the general public turns it into content
on the Internet that can be recreated and shared. We
don't always know the intent of that person, but we
(13:59):
can guaranty that there's a lot of them who want
to propagate that stereotypical racist statement, who want it to
spread and want it to be believed. So probably folks
will act on it, whether that's in the way that
they vote or in the way that they're interacting with
the community that's being targeted, which in this case is
the Haitian community.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, and I think because we have been online for
so long, right, depending on your age, but also so
much of how we consume news now, so much of
how we consume anything is online, whether that be through
a digital publication or a legacy outlet that everybody is
online at this point, and so I think that memes
(14:41):
have become or have felt, very innocent in some way,
like it's a joke, it's not that serious. There's some
hilarious memes out there about tons of different things, right,
And I think what we're more so thinking about is
how we sanitize what someone says when we turn it
into a meme, how we make it less threatening when
(15:03):
it becomes a joke. And I think there's that fine
line of like, this is so ridiculous, how can anyone
believe this? This is so ridiculous? How is this not funny?
But there's real implications, as we've seen in the past
eight years of what it means when someone like Donald
Trump is platformed, even in a way where it's quote
(15:23):
a joke, it's supposed to be funny or we're poking
fun at what he said, there's actual real life implications.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Absolutely, there's real life implications. I mean, number one, it's
not just him alone making the statement anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
At the debate.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Now it's like all these individuals with their own feeds
and their own audiences and their own platforms of varying sizes,
spreading and giving new life to the statements and making
sure they get out there. And so we're going to
talk about just kind of like different instances where things
like this have happened in the past, whether we're talking
about about cartoonists and racist propaganda against Jewish people in
(16:05):
Nazi Germany, right, Like, the arts can be implicated in
the spread of propaganda, you know, and things like memes
and cartoons and jokes and sketches and TV shows can
be used for things that are beyond like a laugh
or a he he haha. They can be used to
(16:26):
propagate evil. And so that's sort of what we want
to talk about today as we analyze this most recent occurrence.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think what Trump one of the things that Trump
is really quote good at is creating this like racist
dog whistling and picking a certain community to attack. Right.
He did that back in twenty sixteen with Mexican immigrant communities.
He's done that with Api folks, He's done that with Muslims.
Now he's doing that with Haitians. And so it's really
(16:54):
easy for him to pick a group and just makeup
shit about them and people and his bass runs with it,
and he knows that. And so I think there's a
part of us that maybe wants there's a part of
us that can discern like, this is not real, this
is baseless, this is a lie, this is wrong. But
(17:16):
then I think you might have said this Mala already,
or maybe you just said it to me earlier. But
it's like, don't he doesn't really need to spread anything
beyond that one statement, because it's not just his party
running with it. It's even us like liberals, progressives, Democrats.
However you may identify turning it into a joke itself,
(17:36):
like we're doing the legwork for him, and it's staying
in the ether. It's staying in the zeitgeist because it's
still two weeks later practically, and people are still talking
about it, and it's and it's still a quote joke. Right.
There are TikTok dances, there are songs created. My mom
was showing me a TikTok video of a creator that
(17:58):
made this song using the SoundBite from Trump, and for
all of the money he made from streams or views,
he was donating it to like an animal organization. So
I'm like, okay, a little bit of like some altruism,
but the cats and dogs aren't actually being affected. Who's
being affected are the Haitian immigrants and the Haitian community
(18:21):
in Springfield, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, it's was that creator, like a white creator doing
like an ironic, like indie pop cover of the hate
speech something like that, Yes, and that sort of And
it's like the intention behind the creator is one thing,
and the irony that you sort of gloss on top
(18:45):
of the hate speech is sort of like, Uh, I
don't think it's enough. It's not enough to separate what
you've made from the original statement, from the original moment
of hate speech and the intention behind why those words
were shared during the debate, you know. And I think
like with with a situation like that, it's so you're right,
(19:11):
for whose benefit? Why did you make this? Like who's
benefiting from this?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Who's benefiting from this? It's the dogs and the cats,
right like, and that creator probably because that song probably
got that person like lots of views and traction and engagement. Yeah,
And so ultimately it's like this community is being put
at the center of this nasty firestorm, but at least
(19:35):
you got to make like a little ironic indie pop
song about it and get a million views or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's Eh, it's like the ethics of the creator economy
in that way, where like not everything needs to be
content and not everything should be content, and it's not
to target that specific person, it's just in general, right,
like some things shouldn't be turned into content. And I
think what we haven't learned earned thus far and we
(20:01):
as a culture, is that bad people need to be ignored,
like when they say outrageous things, like we have to
ignore them instead of platforming them. And because someone like
Trump is so quote good for business, like he's going
to be all over the news outlets and that's what
he wants, and he the memes are going to be
(20:22):
made and that's what he wants. And so someone like that,
Like if we could go back in time and we
ignored this person as opposed to giving them the platform
that they needed. Of course it's not that simple, but
what would it have looked like if the major news
outlets back in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, we're not giving
him this news time or the screen time that he got.
(20:44):
And what if we were actually talking about like, oh,
this person is not qualified and they're a bad person
and they're saying bad things, so we're going to ignore
them instead because I think what we did was we
made it like something to look at. It was a
spectacle because it was so outrageous, and at that time,
post Obama, like nobody was speaking that way publicly anymore.
(21:05):
And so it became like, oh, Trump is making it
okay to talk like that again. So we're gonna bring
it back. Stick around for more. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We're back with more. We hope you didn't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I think his voter base and his supporters are already
primed to accept statements like this as fact. It's not
like these are folks who have never bought into this
type of propaganda before. From NPR, there's this article about
the stereotype of immigrants eating dogs and cats as being
(21:48):
a storied one. I remember being young in California and
seeing like weird stories on the news about Chinese restaurants
and like dogs and cats, you know, being served Chinese restaurants.
And so it's this ongoing racist stereotype that immigrant groups
in particular eat pets and eat dogs and cats, And
(22:10):
it's this sort of way to a make immigrant communities
look scary, look threatening. They're going to come after your
beloved pets, your animals and also this way of making
immigrant communities look non human and like bottom feeders. Right, yeah,
and so what's happening here is this is a group
(22:31):
of people who probably believed the Chinese people eating animals
stuff when that came out. So we're just switching out
one immigrant group for another. But that general idea is
sort of already embedded in the minds of like a
racist American audience. Absolutely, you know, it's just like plug
and play. And I think that he knows that, or
(22:52):
his team knows that, or maybe I'm giving him too
much credit. But it's just so easy to ignite that,
you know. It just takes the one statement and they're
running with it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
This NPR article that you mentioned, but written by Jasmine Garst,
she references a writer Jean rachel Bach, who was a
Korean American and describes growing up and racist comments being
made about the food that she was bringing. She says, quote,
despite my persistent attempts to explain that dog eating was
(23:23):
not at all a common practice among Asians, not to
mention Asian Americans, I started to beg my mom to
stop packing me Korean dishes. It's like, I love this
title of it. Being storied because this has been a
statement that has been wielded against many immigrant communities for
many years. I even see it now, not to deflect,
(23:46):
not to deflect, but I even see it now as
I think Peruvian food has become super global, super mainstream,
and when people find out that in certain regions Peruvian's
equally which is guinea pig, I see the common and
I'm like, oh no, we're not going to do that.
We're not eating your guinea pig in your fucking cage.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
These are guinea pigs that are raised in the same
way that you would raise pigs, like it's literally the same,
and it's in certain regions, and there's different historical there's
different history there, right, And so I can see it
already with like with different groups, even within the Latin
American community.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
And gooya is delicious. When we went to Peru, I hadkoy,
I had guinea pig, and it was bomb just saying yeah, yumy.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But I mean back to back to the comments that
Trump made, you know, and as you were saying, like,
the base doesn't need a lot to run with. And
so according to various different news outlets that we're citing
here like ABC News, AP News, and The Washington Post.
After the debate, the city of Springfield, Ohio started receiving
(24:57):
bomb threats less than two days afterwards, and on Thursday,
September twelveth six buildings were targeted and had to be closed.
The mayor came out, Rob Rue and said that the threats,
the threats that they received used hateful language towards immigrants
and Haitians in our community. Additionally, on September twenty third,
(25:17):
there were more bomb threats sent via email and targeted
three schools and other city official buildings. And on Sunday,
September fifteenth, a university in Springfield faced a school shooting
threat and a bomb threat, and the threats were also
sent via email and targeted members of the local Haitian community.
According to Wittenberg University, it's.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Very scary, and it's also like, okay, so this statement
is enough for people to make bomb threats and you're
threatening to destroy infrastructure to take lives, and I think
that it's just very telling. It's very wild, you know,
(26:04):
and it's very scary, and we know that unfortunately, we
know that the American our citizenry is willing and capable,
like willing to and capable of like carrying out threats
like that. We've had so many bombings in this country
and shootings that have been perpetrated by American citizens. You know,
(26:25):
it's like it's it's kind of we're kind of known
for it.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We're nobly that globally.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And it's very terrifying because you can't look at something
like this and say, oh, they're just oh, it's not
you know that, because something could happen.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, Like in this case, like these claims are actually
not baseless because there's precedent, Like we know that this
could actually happen, because it has. It happened several weeks ago,
So the threats are taken seriously. And I think that
that is another example as to why, like we can't
control what someone like Trump or someone in general, right
(27:00):
a bad politician or is someone in a position of power.
We can't control what they say, but I think we
can control how we then receive it and process it
and distribute that information. And in this case, we're doing
it via memes. And it's like, Okay, let's reflect on this,
Like what is the point of sharing this meme right now?
Like is it for shits and gigs? Like is it funny?
(27:24):
And who is it harming? Like who is the laughter
actually harming? Because it's not harming Trump, it's like harming
the real community that's at the butt of the joke. Well,
Trump didn't say it as a joke, but.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
We're then turning.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It into a joke and it's still the same person,
the same community that's being harmed at the butt of
the joke.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Absolutely, absolutely, And going back to the topic of the
food of it all right, and targeting like immigrant communities
and allegedly what immigrant communities are eating. It reminds me
of a class that I took as an undergrad at
Times called Race in America with Professor gen Wu, who
has since passed away. Rest in peace, gene Wu. But
(28:06):
gene Wu was an Asian American professor who taught this
course and this is all about the construction of race
and ethnicity in the United States, something that's socially and
legally constructed. And I remember there was one lecture in
particular where she talked about like instances on campus where
students of color like received backlash or were targeted with
(28:32):
hate speech around their food and the foods that they
were eating or warming up in their dorms.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
What have you. And she was talking about how it's
not just it's.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Not just like rude or hateful, but when you think
about what a person eats, this is the thing that
keeps them alive, you know, this is the thing that
sustains their cells and keeps us going and healthy. And
for a lot of folks, your food is something that's
passed down generationally. Your mom taught you how to make it,
or your dad or your grandparents, and you have all
(29:04):
these memories surrounding food and holidays, and it's the symbol
of tenderness and care. And so when you're targeting someone's
food and their food choices and their food culture, how
it's just so much bigger than the meal that they're eating.
And I think it's it's horrible, but it is interesting
(29:25):
how over and over again, like the racist stereotypes do
tend to fall on the food choices and the food culture.
And so what is really being said, you know, how
about the people at the core. We don't want you
to eat, We don't even want you to nourish yourself,
much less be here and participate in America.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, absolutely. There's like these different signals or yeah dog
whistles for certain ethnic groups, right, like for Mexicans coming
during the Bassetto program, it was like the lazy Mexican,
the dirty Mexican, the smelly Mexican, if you will. And
I think that the food and hygiene part of it
is so interconnected, and we see that, I think with
(30:09):
all ethnicities that kind of being wielded against us, where
it's like you eat your food is quote nasty, it's gross.
You also smell bad, right.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Like dang damn, okay, okay, thanks a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, I'm like, oh, actually, like Europeans didn't bathe, So, actually,
who's the one that smells bad?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Because when I see a Latino walk by, she smells
so good, like it just waves like all the body spray.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I can smell the cologne from a block away. Literally,
I know what Latino is around the corner. I can
smell him before I can see him. In a good way, but.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
In a good way and a good way yes, yeah yeah.
And so it just is really like we don't have
to perpetuate any of this rhetoric, even if it's a joke.
We don't have to be agents of that, so we
can choose not to be. And it's not to shame
anyone that's like shared a meme or made a meme,
(31:08):
you know, but it's more so getting us to think about, like,
is that the best thing we should be doing when
things like this happen?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, and not to mention stuff like this happens, and
nobody ever talks about what about the kids? Should the
kids be hearing this? Should the kids be seeing this?
Protect the kids? Protect the kids? You know, this is
the type of thing that children would repeat, right, and
do share, and do talk about and joke around about
at school and on the playground. And they're online too,
(31:38):
and they're sending dms to each other and they're in
the comments section and they're posting. It's always what about
the kids when it comes to like the alleged you know,
trans issue, correct, then it's all.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
About the kids. It's all about the kids.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But something like this happens, and I don't see that same.
We're not jumping to protect the kids from being agents
of evil and perpetuating hate speech.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right, Yeah, that's a good point, because kids will repeat
what they hear. And I love that you brought that
up because Roxane Gay wrote an article in The New
Yorker recently really because of the comments that were made
and then how it became so viral. She wrote this
(32:22):
essay titled The Haitian Question. She writes about what it
was like growing up as a first gen Haitian American
in Nebraska and the comments she would receive from her peers,
even being in elementary school where they didn't really understand
why her parents had accents and why they were light skinned,
but they kind of looked ethnic in her words, and
(32:44):
so in this article, you know, she writes about how
her mother went to the elementary school and well asked
the principle, like can I go and do a little
mini presentation, literally took a globe, spun it and was
like this where Haitius, this is where we're from. Brought
them all like fried plantains to eat, and she said,
(33:05):
we didn't have problems after that because they understood. The
kids finally got it. But of course kids get older,
schools change, and she continued to have more problems and
more issues with the racism that she was facing. And
so she details all of this in The New Yorker
and one of the things that she writes, is the
implications of what it means when we turn everything into
(33:26):
a joke. And so I want to read quote what
she said, Roxange writes, and then we joke about red
hats and making America great again and fake news, antiki
torches and seasoning pets. There's an endless parade of memes.
Further capitulation letting Republicans know that you're fine with allowing
them to dictate reality. You're letting them know that you
too believe Haitians are acceptable targets for mockery. You're welcome
(33:50):
to play by their rules. Anything can be fodder for humor.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Absolutely, absolutely, And I think over the years there's been
a lot more focus on like come and what comedians
get away with and what we should be pushing back
on When it comes to comics. There's this idea that well,
I say it in the form of a joke with
a setup and a punchline, then it's a joke now,
which makes it something different and makes it sort of
(34:16):
like free from our whatever expectations we have for regular
everyday speech, Like if it's a joke, then it can't
be hate speech, when that can't be farther from the truth, right,
And so I appreciate her bringing that in because I
think that's always.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
The well, it's just the retort. It's just a joke.
It's just a joke.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
A joke is any is just like any other form
of speaking. It's it's human communication. It's the style. It
has its own style, but it's still human communication for
an audience, for the masses. I think it's also really
important that it's so. I think and even to this day,
there's going to be large parts of the American population
who have never met a Haitian person, who don't know
(34:57):
where Haiti is, and so this statement could be their
very first introduction to the Haitian community and what it
means to be a person from Haiti. And you know,
I didn't meet anyone from Haiti until I went to college.
Until I was an undergraduate, and I was in Boston, Massachusetts,
and so there was a much larger Caribbean community there
that is just not present in la at least not
(35:20):
at the time. Right I went to undergrad in twenty ten,
I went to Tufts, and so I met a lot
of people that I would not have met otherwise unless
I had traveled to places where these communities are in
larger numbers, and so it's very possible in this country
to just like have very limited exposure to different types
of people depending on where you live. So it would
(35:42):
be awful if, like your kid, the first thing that
they know about this community is a piece of racist
propaganda that they saw in a meme on TikTok, Because
then what do they do with that? Right, They have
no context, they don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, that's a really valid point because it's not just
the memes. It's like the TikTok platform lends itself to
like the music, the dances. I know, it's moved away
from being a dancing platform, if you will, But even
with this, there were there have been dances made, you know,
to the song. There's been a remix, a song made.
(36:19):
It's not even a song, but songs and remixes have
been made to Trump's SoundBite. And so the way that
the SoundBite has then traveled and transformed into memes and
in a way pop culture because we're replicating it and
we're passing it along and we're laughing at it, and
it's going to be in the zeitgeist forever.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, honestly, if it's not already on SNL, it will be.
I don't know if they've done a sketch yet, but
it's probably coming up.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Right, right. Yeah. So I think all this to say,
I don't know, I don't know what to say. All
this to say, don't.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Spreadshit, don't spread rassropaganda. The devil doesn't need an advocate.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, that's one of my favorite things. The devil does
not need an advocate.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
And here you are volunteering, yeah, to do it for free,
and nobody even asked you, right.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Right, And I think, you know, with someone like Kamala,
who's team has very much embraced like online culture, her campaign,
at least her campaign has embraced online culture and meme culture.
I'm not sure if they've created any memes about this, right,
But it's like, we don't have to repost everything. We
(37:33):
don't have to do it just because other people are
doing it, you know. It's like really right now or
how I'm feeling and I'm thinking is like one, it's
okay to one, it's okay to be different, you know,
like we don't have to do it just because like
it's content and everything should be content, Like we don't
actually have to make everything into content. And two, not
(37:54):
everything should be a joke, like not everything can be
a joke, should be a joke, and not everything is
funny and really thinking about who's at the heart of
the joke.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, and you might be participating in like generations of
racism without even realizing it. Yeah, you know, this thing
is not an original thing. It's not an original thought.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I think it's important to like what legacy are we
situating ourselves in, you know, this idea of like are
you on the right side of history with this? And
do you want it in your digital footprint? And then
when the aliens are like, you know, analyzing what we've left,
do you want them to think that you were spreading propaganda?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, and I'll be honest to be fully transparent. Right
the night after the election, someone made a meme. It
was like something pulled from Twitter that then was posted
on Instagram that then I cross posted because somebody shared it,
and it was about, you know, Trump said something that
was like they're doing operations, sex change operations on illegal aliens, right,
(39:02):
And so then there was a meme of like an
alien like in drag Lord, and I did share it,
and then afterwards I was like, no, like we're because
to me, I'm like, yeah, that to me in that moment,
I also thought it was funny, but I'm like, no, we're.
After I did some reflecting, I thought like, we're back
to using the term illegal aliens like it's normal. We're
(39:26):
normalizing it again, even in a joke, and so I
did some reflection on that, and then that got me
thinking about all of this because I was seeing all
the memes. I was seeing the two sets of memes,
the quote illegal aliens getting sex change operations and then
the dogs and cats memes. So I was seeing both
(39:46):
and one I interacted with one I didn't, And then
I really got me thinking about all of this and like, yeah,
it can be funny, but now we're normalizing, even in
a joke, saying illegal aliens again. And we've made a.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Lot of progress, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
By like news outlets, by our own government, by elected
officials like not saying illegal aliens, so we say undocumented people,
undocumented communities. But we're reverting in that way. To your point, Mala, like,
on what side of history do you want to be on?
And what is in your digital footprint, because all of
it is in our digital footprint.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah. And if you consider yourself liberal and the memes
you're making or sharing look exactly like the Republican conservative memes,
we have a big problem. Yes, even if your intention
in tone you think are different, Like what's the final product?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What's the outcome of it all?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely so. I think this is just as
Lokatoa has transformed. I think that you know, when we
started the show, it was like chronically online and we
still are, but it's like, how can we be smarter online?
You know, how can we do things differently online? How
(40:56):
can we maybe do think about ethics in a way
we did it we weren't about an early twenties, but
now as like full fledged adults thinking about how are
we as a culture and society using social media for
good or for bad?
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It's unfortunate that these topics, you know, there's always new examples,
and so we come back to these issues because they
persist and they're ongoing. So let's talk about it. And
we know that we have some listeners who have been
listening since episode one, but we have new listeners and
listeners who maybe are a little bit younger, and so
(41:32):
we like to come back to these examples and like,
this stuff is current, this is ongoing, and there's always
room to question and to challenge and to reflect.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Absolutely and then spread it, like spread that information and
knowledge with your friends and family, because yeah, I think
at look at Tora. We don't want to shame anyone.
And that's why I wanted to give that example of
like I did it too, like with the other meme, right,
And then that led me to solve, reflect and think
about like, no, this should not be funny, you know,
(42:04):
and memes have a way of because they're visual being funny,
Like they can be funny regardless of what the meme is.
But it goes back to like not everything should be
content and not everything should be memified. Right, we're memifying
evil in real time.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, the memification of evil. It's pretty dire and it
sneaks up on you. Thanks for listening, y'all. This was
a more cerebral episode than we've well we always do.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
We're very cepri very.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
We're always if you could see our text threat, oh.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Lord, oh lord. We're always thinking. We're thinking of brilliant
thoughts all day, every day. Just so we can come
on here and share with you our loving, adoring audience
that we appreciate so much.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yes, thank you for listening to another capitolo of Look
at a Radio. Let us know what you think, leave
a review, leave a comment on socials. We want to
know what you think of this episode and we'll catch
you next times. Loka to a Radio is executive produced
by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Stephanie Franco is our producer.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Story editing by Me viosa.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Creative direction by me Mala.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Look At a Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael
Tura podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You can listen to Locata Radio on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Leave us a review and share with your prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And thank you to our local motes, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Besitos Loga
Lok a thought. Our radio is a radiophonic novela, which.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm fiosa fem.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am Ma la Munos.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting
through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,
the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we
are still here.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're not done telling stories.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even
podcasting through a new decade of our lives.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Since twenty sixteen, we've been making Loca thro Our Radio
independently until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Dura Network in twenty
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
From our Lips to your Ears, Fall in love with
Loka to a radio like you never have before.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Season nine. Love that first.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Listen, Olao la Loka Motes. Welcome to Season nine of
lok At Dora Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm the Osa and I'm Mala.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Lok at Tora Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving
our present and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning in
to Capitroro cientos Kinsen two fifteen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Last time on LOCATORA Radio, we interviewed Linda Garcia, who
is running uncontested in the upcoming November election for the
office of Texas State rep for District one oh seven.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Could see that I had been doing the work, and
so the work means that I had been taking steps
to work with our community and shift current circumstances in
our community. And so for a lot of people, that
is what a public servant does.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That is what she is slated to be sworn in
January twenty twenty four. It is a really juicy, informative interview,
so make sure you tune in, leave a comment, subscribe
and share with a friend.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So how are you doing, Mala, Oh, I'm doing really well.
Why are you doing really well?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
For a variety of reasons, life is just to go
my way right now. I'm really like my lucky Girl
syndrome is at its peak. I think in these moments,
school is going well. There are like some fun things
happening on the personal front that I will not divulge.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And you know, we have our two weekly shows and
now we're like very much underway with Senora sex Ed,
which is super exciting. Especially because it's been years in
the making.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, we have five episodes out so far, five episodes
of a thirty episode season, and we just have been
fully in production for a while now, and so it's
really fun to be putting out the episodes finally and
also to be booking the new guest as well.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And we haven't launched a brand new original show that
we are co producing and co hosting since we launched
lok at Thought our radio, So this is our first
time putting out a whole new project as look at
Thought our productions in collectoration with my podcast network. But
it's been really fascinating to me to watch the show,
(03:06):
Senora Sex said, go from an idea to even like recording,
to then seeing it take on its own identity, its
own style, its own vibe, and sort of like letting
the show reveal itself to us and each guest really
kind of bringing a different lens, a different topic, a
different angle that I don't think we can always we
(03:28):
can We can't always predict, you know, like what a
guest is going to bring to the show, and we
and like letting that happen and then like following the
lead of the guest has been really fun.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, I agree. I think that that's what makes Senora
Sex said different from Loka Tora, where we're giving the
guests the space to really tell their own story and
it's not about a specific project that they're working on
or specific moment a current moment. Really, when we talk
about Loka Tora, we're archiving the present and so very
(03:59):
much we're talking talking about an artist, a creative and
activist and what they're doing right now in this present
moment where a Senora Sex said, we're really giving the
guests the opportunity to reflect on their upbringing, their family,
anything related to sex and sexuality. And I love when
they have these moments where they're sharing something for the
first time or in real time, you can see them like, oh,
(04:23):
I actually never thought about it that way, but now
that I'm saying it out loud to you both, I
can really see it or I can think about it
in this way. And so I think that's what makes
the show really unique and different from Look at Thota Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I agree, it's extremely personal, and I think in more
recent seasons Locator has gotten less like personal and less
putting the private out for the public. But Senora Sexad
is that space where our guests can very much do that,
and it's been cool to see how our guests, like
Aida Rodriguez talked about feeling really safe during the interview
(04:58):
to go there and talk about deep issues and difficult
memories and maybe traumas that she hasn't talked about out
loud necessarily outside of her book. So it's just been
really cool. And our most recent episode, while at the
time of this recording, features a mother daughter pair that
I am so excited to have on the show, Lily
(05:19):
and Lethisia Roldan. If you tune into Senora Sex Said,
you're gonna notice we have a recurring segment. It's a
house call from doctor Roldan and she's giving us her
OBGYN resident physician input on some of the topics that
our guests bring up, whether it's perimenopause or masturbation, what
have you, or a myth busting around the hymen. The
(05:44):
hymen I forgot the word. We talked about it so
much that I forgot the word. But now she has
her own episode with her mom where we talk about
their own journey on Senora Sex Said, and really her
journey to becoming a gynecologist. So it's a very fun episode,
very full, so make sure you go and tune in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah. I love all of the episodes so far, but
I especially feel really connected and really like tenderhearted about
the mother daughter conversations because again, you can see in
real time mother daughters processing their relationship, their understanding of
sex and sexuality, not only about themselves, but also of
(06:22):
their mothers or their counterparts, depending who it is, and
so that has also been really beautiful to see. And
you know, we're not necessarily defining Senora sext as an archive,
but when I think about like oral tradition and a
mother daughter story, I'm like, we've just archived this for
them and they can listen to it for as long
as the feed exists. And to me, that's something so
(06:42):
special because as we know, like as our parents' age,
there's all these stories you want to capture. And I
really feel like for the mother daughter episodes, it really
is that time capsule because it's not just present day
how we're processing, but it's looking back on their childhoods,
looking into the future if they want to become mothers themselves,
and having those dialogues with their mother and so I
(07:05):
think that that's something really special about the show.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It's super special.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And when have we seen these types of mother daughter
conversations in one place.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
In a Latino Latina LATINX context. Yeah, talking about sex
and sexuality. And we'll have guests that are like, I
want to do it, but my mom isn't down. And
of course we're not going to force the sangnona. You know,
we're not going to even our own moms. Like when
we were starting the show, like they had said yes
and they were down, and then as like it came
(07:37):
down to interviewing, there was a little more hesitancy and
so we haven't actually booked them yet. I'm still hoping
that my mom will listen to one of the mother
daughter episodes and understand the vibe and the goal of
the show and not feel too shy about it. But yeah,
we're not going to force anyone, but I do hope
that I can get her on eventually.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, we the jury still out on our moms, but
we are grateful to our guests and their moms for
being so open and vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And we took it a step further.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
We went with Victory House to the Santa Fe Spring
swap meat and live and in person and on camera.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
We just approached.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Random women, mothers and daughters, and we asked them if
we could give them like a brief interview about how
they learned about sex and sexuality. And we interviewed some
really great women who were funny, who were really they
just wanted to talk about it. They were down, and
you know, it's not every day that someone approaches you
at the swap meet to ask, you know, how did
(08:39):
you learn about sex? But totally and some were not down.
Some were like absolutely not, no, thank you. And some
who were there with like boyfriends or male partners. I
think we're shy, which is fine, but go to our
instagram and check out that clip from the Santa Fe
Springs Swap Meat.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It was really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, and I think they're I don't know if this
is a generalization, but I think so far what we've seen,
it's either your super down to talk about sex and
sexuality and sex ed or you're not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't know if we've found that in between, because
I think to be in that in between, you're gonna
you're still gonna, You're gonna go to one side or
the other. You're gonna go more towards no or more
towards yes. So it's it has been really fun to
talk to the women, the signals especially that are like yes,
I want to talk about this because no one's ever
talked to me about it before. It's fun. Subscribe leave
(09:29):
a review for that show as well. It's a brand
new feed, so we're growing the audience. We have one
review so far and it's a very sweet review. So
if you want to contribute, we would love that so
so much.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
On Apple podcasts and on Spotify.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yes, all streaming platforms, but especially the Apple pod and
the Spotify. If you can leave five stars, if you
can leave a review, that would be greatly appreciated. Don't
go anywhere, Lokamotives. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And we're back with more of our episode.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So today, aside from our general check in and talking
about our new show, Total Mood Shift, it's election season.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yes, it is again again. It's always election season. It
feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Every well, every presidential election. Obviously we've covered it because
we've been in existence for eight years, nine seasons, but
local elections we cover two. But we're seeing like it's
not even Trump two point zero it's like Trump three
point oh because this is his third time running wild,
which like, I'm an abolitionist until it comes to these
(10:46):
shitty men.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah under the jail, Yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Please. Today we're talking about the presidential election, but more
specifically the recent live debate between Kamala Harris and Donald
Trump that took place on September tenth.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So if you guys tuned in, then you probably saw that,
among other things, donald Trump started talking about Haitian immigrants
in Springfield, quote eating dogs, eating cats, eating the pets
of the people that live there in Springfield. So, of course,
when something like this happens, Donald Trump gives us a inflamed,
(11:27):
ridiculous racist SoundBite, the internet goes wild, right, it gets
picked up and it's spread like wildfire. And we see
a quote like that not only covered in the news
and not only dissected by commentators, but we see what
we're calling the memification of a statement like that, right,
(11:48):
people making tiktoks. It's becoming a sound it's becoming its
own meme. We want to sort of talk about all
the implications of that and analyze that that process.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Before we go into our own ANALYSI of what it
means when someone like Trump becomes a meme. Also want
to just set the stage as to what has been
going on the past week. So during the during the debate,
it was moderated by two journalists, Lindsay Davis and David Muir,
(12:18):
and they were fact checking in real time, which I
really appreciated because a lot of people won't go back
and check and fact check afterwards. There are fact checking,
there is fact checking that happens by certain outlets after
the fact, but I think it being live was super
important and really critical. And as they were fact checking
(12:39):
this claim that Trump made about quote Haitian immigrants eating pets,
David Muir fact checked in real time and said, there
are actually no reports. The city commissioner has said there
are no reports of immigrants or anyone eating pets, eating cats,
eating dogs, and really challenged that narrative that he was stating,
(13:00):
and so essentially it was baseless, right, But of course
he ran with it, and the Republican Party ran with it,
or members of the Republican Party ran with it, and
since then there have been real life implications as to
the statements that he made.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
And of course, you know, Donald Trump comes from a
reality TV background. I think a big part of his
staying power at this point has been his sort of
ability to capture a public media moment and give his
folks a SoundBite and something that can be clipped and
(13:37):
quoted and shared and memified, and in essence he launches
into this well and we're talking about this episode as
the memification of evil, right, and where he takes something
super diabolical and the general public turns it into content
on the Internet that can be recreated and shared. We
don't always know the intent of that person, but we
(13:59):
can guaranty that there's a lot of them who want
to propagate that stereotypical racist statement, who want it to
spread and want it to be believed. So probably folks
will act on it, whether that's in the way that
they vote or in the way that they're interacting with
the community that's being targeted, which in this case is
the Haitian community.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, and I think because we have been online for
so long, right, depending on your age, but also so
much of how we consume news now, so much of
how we consume anything is online, whether that be through
a digital publication or a legacy outlet that everybody is
online at this point, and so I think that memes
(14:41):
have become or have felt, very innocent in some way,
like it's a joke, it's not that serious. There's some
hilarious memes out there about tons of different things, right,
And I think what we're more so thinking about is
how we sanitize what someone says when we turn it
into a meme, how we make it less threatening when
(15:03):
it becomes a joke. And I think there's that fine
line of like, this is so ridiculous, how can anyone
believe this? This is so ridiculous? How is this not funny?
But there's real implications, as we've seen in the past
eight years of what it means when someone like Donald
Trump is platformed, even in a way where it's quote
(15:23):
a joke, it's supposed to be funny or we're poking
fun at what he said, there's actual real life implications.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Absolutely, there's real life implications. I mean, number one, it's
not just him alone making the statement anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
At the debate.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Now it's like all these individuals with their own feeds
and their own audiences and their own platforms of varying sizes,
spreading and giving new life to the statements and making
sure they get out there. And so we're going to
talk about just kind of like different instances where things
like this have happened in the past, whether we're talking
about about cartoonists and racist propaganda against Jewish people in
(16:05):
Nazi Germany, right, Like, the arts can be implicated in
the spread of propaganda, you know, and things like memes
and cartoons and jokes and sketches and TV shows can
be used for things that are beyond like a laugh
or a he he haha. They can be used to
(16:26):
propagate evil. And so that's sort of what we want
to talk about today as we analyze this most recent occurrence.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think what Trump one of the things that Trump
is really quote good at is creating this like racist
dog whistling and picking a certain community to attack. Right.
He did that back in twenty sixteen with Mexican immigrant communities.
He's done that with Api folks, He's done that with Muslims.
Now he's doing that with Haitians. And so it's really
(16:54):
easy for him to pick a group and just makeup
shit about them and people and his bass runs with it,
and he knows that. And so I think there's a
part of us that maybe wants there's a part of
us that can discern like, this is not real, this
is baseless, this is a lie, this is wrong. But
(17:16):
then I think you might have said this Mala already,
or maybe you just said it to me earlier. But
it's like, don't he doesn't really need to spread anything
beyond that one statement, because it's not just his party
running with it. It's even us like liberals, progressives, Democrats.
However you may identify turning it into a joke itself,
(17:36):
like we're doing the legwork for him, and it's staying
in the ether. It's staying in the zeitgeist because it's
still two weeks later practically, and people are still talking
about it, and it's and it's still a quote joke. Right.
There are TikTok dances, there are songs created. My mom
was showing me a TikTok video of a creator that
(17:58):
made this song using the SoundBite from Trump, and for
all of the money he made from streams or views,
he was donating it to like an animal organization. So
I'm like, okay, a little bit of like some altruism,
but the cats and dogs aren't actually being affected. Who's
being affected are the Haitian immigrants and the Haitian community
(18:21):
in Springfield, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, it's was that creator, like a white creator doing
like an ironic, like indie pop cover of the hate
speech something like that, Yes, and that sort of And
it's like the intention behind the creator is one thing,
and the irony that you sort of gloss on top
(18:45):
of the hate speech is sort of like, Uh, I
don't think it's enough. It's not enough to separate what
you've made from the original statement, from the original moment
of hate speech and the intention behind why those words
were shared during the debate, you know. And I think
like with with a situation like that, it's so you're right,
(19:11):
for whose benefit? Why did you make this? Like who's
benefiting from this?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Who's benefiting from this? It's the dogs and the cats,
right like, and that creator probably because that song probably
got that person like lots of views and traction and engagement. Yeah,
And so ultimately it's like this community is being put
at the center of this nasty firestorm, but at least
(19:35):
you got to make like a little ironic indie pop
song about it and get a million views or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's Eh, it's like the ethics of the creator economy
in that way, where like not everything needs to be
content and not everything should be content, and it's not
to target that specific person, it's just in general, right,
like some things shouldn't be turned into content. And I
think what we haven't learned earned thus far and we
(20:01):
as a culture, is that bad people need to be ignored,
like when they say outrageous things, like we have to
ignore them instead of platforming them. And because someone like
Trump is so quote good for business, like he's going
to be all over the news outlets and that's what
he wants, and he the memes are going to be
(20:22):
made and that's what he wants. And so someone like that,
Like if we could go back in time and we
ignored this person as opposed to giving them the platform
that they needed. Of course it's not that simple, but
what would it have looked like if the major news
outlets back in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, we're not giving
him this news time or the screen time that he got.
(20:44):
And what if we were actually talking about like, oh,
this person is not qualified and they're a bad person
and they're saying bad things, so we're going to ignore
them instead because I think what we did was we
made it like something to look at. It was a
spectacle because it was so outrageous, and at that time,
post Obama, like nobody was speaking that way publicly anymore.
(21:05):
And so it became like, oh, Trump is making it
okay to talk like that again. So we're gonna bring
it back. Stick around for more. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We're back with more. We hope you didn't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I think his voter base and his supporters are already
primed to accept statements like this as fact. It's not
like these are folks who have never bought into this
type of propaganda before. From NPR, there's this article about
the stereotype of immigrants eating dogs and cats as being
(21:48):
a storied one. I remember being young in California and
seeing like weird stories on the news about Chinese restaurants
and like dogs and cats, you know, being served Chinese restaurants.
And so it's this ongoing racist stereotype that immigrant groups
in particular eat pets and eat dogs and cats, And
(22:10):
it's this sort of way to a make immigrant communities
look scary, look threatening. They're going to come after your
beloved pets, your animals and also this way of making
immigrant communities look non human and like bottom feeders. Right, yeah,
and so what's happening here is this is a group
(22:31):
of people who probably believed the Chinese people eating animals
stuff when that came out. So we're just switching out
one immigrant group for another. But that general idea is
sort of already embedded in the minds of like a
racist American audience. Absolutely, you know, it's just like plug
and play. And I think that he knows that, or
(22:52):
his team knows that, or maybe I'm giving him too
much credit. But it's just so easy to ignite that,
you know. It just takes the one statement and they're
running with it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
This NPR article that you mentioned, but written by Jasmine Garst,
she references a writer Jean rachel Bach, who was a
Korean American and describes growing up and racist comments being
made about the food that she was bringing. She says, quote,
despite my persistent attempts to explain that dog eating was
(23:23):
not at all a common practice among Asians, not to
mention Asian Americans, I started to beg my mom to
stop packing me Korean dishes. It's like, I love this
title of it. Being storied because this has been a
statement that has been wielded against many immigrant communities for
many years. I even see it now, not to deflect,
(23:46):
not to deflect, but I even see it now as
I think Peruvian food has become super global, super mainstream,
and when people find out that in certain regions Peruvian's
equally which is guinea pig, I see the common and
I'm like, oh no, we're not going to do that.
We're not eating your guinea pig in your fucking cage.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
These are guinea pigs that are raised in the same
way that you would raise pigs, like it's literally the same,
and it's in certain regions, and there's different historical there's
different history there, right, And so I can see it
already with like with different groups, even within the Latin
American community.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
And gooya is delicious. When we went to Peru, I hadkoy,
I had guinea pig, and it was bomb just saying yeah, yumy.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But I mean back to back to the comments that
Trump made, you know, and as you were saying, like,
the base doesn't need a lot to run with. And
so according to various different news outlets that we're citing
here like ABC News, AP News, and The Washington Post.
After the debate, the city of Springfield, Ohio started receiving
(24:57):
bomb threats less than two days afterwards, and on Thursday,
September twelveth six buildings were targeted and had to be closed.
The mayor came out, Rob Rue and said that the threats,
the threats that they received used hateful language towards immigrants
and Haitians in our community. Additionally, on September twenty third,
(25:17):
there were more bomb threats sent via email and targeted
three schools and other city official buildings. And on Sunday,
September fifteenth, a university in Springfield faced a school shooting
threat and a bomb threat, and the threats were also
sent via email and targeted members of the local Haitian community.
According to Wittenberg University, it's.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Very scary, and it's also like, okay, so this statement
is enough for people to make bomb threats and you're
threatening to destroy infrastructure to take lives, and I think
that it's just very telling. It's very wild, you know,
(26:04):
and it's very scary, and we know that unfortunately, we
know that the American our citizenry is willing and capable,
like willing to and capable of like carrying out threats
like that. We've had so many bombings in this country
and shootings that have been perpetrated by American citizens. You know,
(26:25):
it's like it's it's kind of we're kind of known
for it.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We're nobly that globally.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And it's very terrifying because you can't look at something
like this and say, oh, they're just oh, it's not
you know that, because something could happen.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, Like in this case, like these claims are actually
not baseless because there's precedent, Like we know that this
could actually happen, because it has. It happened several weeks ago,
So the threats are taken seriously. And I think that
that is another example as to why, like we can't
control what someone like Trump or someone in general, right
(27:00):
a bad politician or is someone in a position of power.
We can't control what they say, but I think we
can control how we then receive it and process it
and distribute that information. And in this case, we're doing
it via memes. And it's like, Okay, let's reflect on this,
Like what is the point of sharing this meme right now?
Like is it for shits and gigs? Like is it funny?
(27:24):
And who is it harming? Like who is the laughter
actually harming? Because it's not harming Trump, it's like harming
the real community that's at the butt of the joke. Well,
Trump didn't say it as a joke, but.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
We're then turning.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It into a joke and it's still the same person,
the same community that's being harmed at the butt of
the joke.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Absolutely, absolutely, And going back to the topic of the
food of it all right, and targeting like immigrant communities
and allegedly what immigrant communities are eating. It reminds me
of a class that I took as an undergrad at
Times called Race in America with Professor gen Wu, who
has since passed away. Rest in peace, gene Wu. But
(28:06):
gene Wu was an Asian American professor who taught this
course and this is all about the construction of race
and ethnicity in the United States, something that's socially and
legally constructed. And I remember there was one lecture in
particular where she talked about like instances on campus where
students of color like received backlash or were targeted with
(28:32):
hate speech around their food and the foods that they
were eating or warming up in their dorms.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
What have you. And she was talking about how it's
not just it's.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Not just like rude or hateful, but when you think
about what a person eats, this is the thing that
keeps them alive, you know, this is the thing that
sustains their cells and keeps us going and healthy. And
for a lot of folks, your food is something that's
passed down generationally. Your mom taught you how to make it,
or your dad or your grandparents, and you have all
(29:04):
these memories surrounding food and holidays, and it's the symbol
of tenderness and care. And so when you're targeting someone's
food and their food choices and their food culture, how
it's just so much bigger than the meal that they're eating.
And I think it's it's horrible, but it is interesting
(29:25):
how over and over again, like the racist stereotypes do
tend to fall on the food choices and the food culture.
And so what is really being said, you know, how
about the people at the core. We don't want you
to eat, We don't even want you to nourish yourself,
much less be here and participate in America.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, absolutely. There's like these different signals or yeah dog
whistles for certain ethnic groups, right, like for Mexicans coming
during the Bassetto program, it was like the lazy Mexican,
the dirty Mexican, the smelly Mexican, if you will. And
I think that the food and hygiene part of it
is so interconnected, and we see that, I think with
(30:09):
all ethnicities that kind of being wielded against us, where
it's like you eat your food is quote nasty, it's gross.
You also smell bad, right.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Like dang damn, okay, okay, thanks a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, I'm like, oh, actually, like Europeans didn't bathe, So, actually,
who's the one that smells bad?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Because when I see a Latino walk by, she smells
so good, like it just waves like all the body spray.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I can smell the cologne from a block away. Literally,
I know what Latino is around the corner. I can
smell him before I can see him. In a good way, but.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
In a good way and a good way yes, yeah yeah.
And so it just is really like we don't have
to perpetuate any of this rhetoric, even if it's a joke.
We don't have to be agents of that, so we
can choose not to be. And it's not to shame
anyone that's like shared a meme or made a meme,
(31:08):
you know, but it's more so getting us to think about, like,
is that the best thing we should be doing when
things like this happen?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, and not to mention stuff like this happens, and
nobody ever talks about what about the kids? Should the
kids be hearing this? Should the kids be seeing this?
Protect the kids? Protect the kids? You know, this is
the type of thing that children would repeat, right, and
do share, and do talk about and joke around about
at school and on the playground. And they're online too,
(31:38):
and they're sending dms to each other and they're in
the comments section and they're posting. It's always what about
the kids when it comes to like the alleged you know,
trans issue, correct, then it's all.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
About the kids. It's all about the kids.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But something like this happens, and I don't see that same.
We're not jumping to protect the kids from being agents
of evil and perpetuating hate speech.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right, Yeah, that's a good point, because kids will repeat
what they hear. And I love that you brought that
up because Roxane Gay wrote an article in The New
Yorker recently really because of the comments that were made
and then how it became so viral. She wrote this
(32:22):
essay titled The Haitian Question. She writes about what it
was like growing up as a first gen Haitian American
in Nebraska and the comments she would receive from her peers,
even being in elementary school where they didn't really understand
why her parents had accents and why they were light skinned,
but they kind of looked ethnic in her words, and
(32:44):
so in this article, you know, she writes about how
her mother went to the elementary school and well asked
the principle, like can I go and do a little
mini presentation, literally took a globe, spun it and was
like this where Haitius, this is where we're from. Brought
them all like fried plantains to eat, and she said,
(33:05):
we didn't have problems after that because they understood. The
kids finally got it. But of course kids get older,
schools change, and she continued to have more problems and
more issues with the racism that she was facing. And
so she details all of this in The New Yorker
and one of the things that she writes, is the
implications of what it means when we turn everything into
(33:26):
a joke. And so I want to read quote what
she said, Roxange writes, and then we joke about red
hats and making America great again and fake news, antiki
torches and seasoning pets. There's an endless parade of memes.
Further capitulation letting Republicans know that you're fine with allowing
them to dictate reality. You're letting them know that you
too believe Haitians are acceptable targets for mockery. You're welcome
(33:50):
to play by their rules. Anything can be fodder for humor.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Absolutely, absolutely, And I think over the years there's been
a lot more focus on like come and what comedians
get away with and what we should be pushing back
on When it comes to comics. There's this idea that well,
I say it in the form of a joke with
a setup and a punchline, then it's a joke now,
which makes it something different and makes it sort of
(34:16):
like free from our whatever expectations we have for regular
everyday speech, Like if it's a joke, then it can't
be hate speech, when that can't be farther from the truth, right,
And so I appreciate her bringing that in because I
think that's always.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
The well, it's just the retort. It's just a joke.
It's just a joke.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
A joke is any is just like any other form
of speaking. It's it's human communication. It's the style. It
has its own style, but it's still human communication for
an audience, for the masses. I think it's also really
important that it's so. I think and even to this day,
there's going to be large parts of the American population
who have never met a Haitian person, who don't know
(34:57):
where Haiti is, and so this statement could be their
very first introduction to the Haitian community and what it
means to be a person from Haiti. And you know,
I didn't meet anyone from Haiti until I went to college.
Until I was an undergraduate, and I was in Boston, Massachusetts,
and so there was a much larger Caribbean community there
that is just not present in la at least not
(35:20):
at the time. Right I went to undergrad in twenty ten,
I went to Tufts, and so I met a lot
of people that I would not have met otherwise unless
I had traveled to places where these communities are in
larger numbers, and so it's very possible in this country
to just like have very limited exposure to different types
of people depending on where you live. So it would
(35:42):
be awful if, like your kid, the first thing that
they know about this community is a piece of racist
propaganda that they saw in a meme on TikTok, Because
then what do they do with that? Right, They have
no context, they don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, that's a really valid point because it's not just
the memes. It's like the TikTok platform lends itself to
like the music, the dances. I know, it's moved away
from being a dancing platform, if you will, But even
with this, there were there have been dances made, you know,
to the song. There's been a remix, a song made.
(36:19):
It's not even a song, but songs and remixes have
been made to Trump's SoundBite. And so the way that
the SoundBite has then traveled and transformed into memes and
in a way pop culture because we're replicating it and
we're passing it along and we're laughing at it, and
it's going to be in the zeitgeist forever.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, honestly, if it's not already on SNL, it will be.
I don't know if they've done a sketch yet, but
it's probably coming up.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Right, right. Yeah. So I think all this to say,
I don't know, I don't know what to say. All
this to say, don't.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Spreadshit, don't spread rassropaganda. The devil doesn't need an advocate.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, that's one of my favorite things. The devil does
not need an advocate.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
And here you are volunteering, yeah, to do it for free,
and nobody even asked you, right.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Right, And I think, you know, with someone like Kamala,
who's team has very much embraced like online culture, her campaign,
at least her campaign has embraced online culture and meme culture.
I'm not sure if they've created any memes about this, right,
But it's like, we don't have to repost everything. We
(37:33):
don't have to do it just because other people are
doing it, you know. It's like really right now or
how I'm feeling and I'm thinking is like one, it's
okay to one, it's okay to be different, you know,
like we don't have to do it just because like
it's content and everything should be content, Like we don't
actually have to make everything into content. And two, not
(37:54):
everything should be a joke, like not everything can be
a joke, should be a joke, and not everything is
funny and really thinking about who's at the heart of
the joke.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, and you might be participating in like generations of
racism without even realizing it. Yeah, you know, this thing
is not an original thing. It's not an original thought.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I think it's important to like what legacy are we
situating ourselves in, you know, this idea of like are
you on the right side of history with this? And
do you want it in your digital footprint? And then
when the aliens are like, you know, analyzing what we've left,
do you want them to think that you were spreading propaganda?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, and I'll be honest to be fully transparent. Right
the night after the election, someone made a meme. It
was like something pulled from Twitter that then was posted
on Instagram that then I cross posted because somebody shared it,
and it was about, you know, Trump said something that
was like they're doing operations, sex change operations on illegal aliens, right,
(39:02):
And so then there was a meme of like an
alien like in drag Lord, and I did share it,
and then afterwards I was like, no, like we're because
to me, I'm like, yeah, that to me in that moment,
I also thought it was funny, but I'm like, no, we're.
After I did some reflecting, I thought like, we're back
to using the term illegal aliens like it's normal. We're
(39:26):
normalizing it again, even in a joke, and so I
did some reflection on that, and then that got me
thinking about all of this because I was seeing all
the memes. I was seeing the two sets of memes,
the quote illegal aliens getting sex change operations and then
the dogs and cats memes. So I was seeing both
(39:46):
and one I interacted with one I didn't, And then
I really got me thinking about all of this and like, yeah,
it can be funny, but now we're normalizing, even in
a joke, saying illegal aliens again. And we've made a.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Lot of progress, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
By like news outlets, by our own government, by elected
officials like not saying illegal aliens, so we say undocumented people,
undocumented communities. But we're reverting in that way. To your point, Mala, like,
on what side of history do you want to be on?
And what is in your digital footprint, because all of
it is in our digital footprint.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah. And if you consider yourself liberal and the memes
you're making or sharing look exactly like the Republican conservative memes,
we have a big problem. Yes, even if your intention
in tone you think are different, Like what's the final product?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What's the outcome of it all?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely so. I think this is just as
Lokatoa has transformed. I think that you know, when we
started the show, it was like chronically online and we
still are, but it's like, how can we be smarter online?
You know, how can we do things differently online? How
(40:56):
can we maybe do think about ethics in a way
we did it we weren't about an early twenties, but
now as like full fledged adults thinking about how are
we as a culture and society using social media for
good or for bad?
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It's unfortunate that these topics, you know, there's always new examples,
and so we come back to these issues because they
persist and they're ongoing. So let's talk about it. And
we know that we have some listeners who have been
listening since episode one, but we have new listeners and
listeners who maybe are a little bit younger, and so
(41:32):
we like to come back to these examples and like,
this stuff is current, this is ongoing, and there's always
room to question and to challenge and to reflect.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Absolutely and then spread it, like spread that information and
knowledge with your friends and family, because yeah, I think
at look at Tora. We don't want to shame anyone.
And that's why I wanted to give that example of
like I did it too, like with the other meme, right,
And then that led me to solve, reflect and think
about like, no, this should not be funny, you know,
(42:04):
and memes have a way of because they're visual being funny,
Like they can be funny regardless of what the meme is.
But it goes back to like not everything should be
content and not everything should be memified. Right, we're memifying
evil in real time.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, the memification of evil. It's pretty dire and it
sneaks up on you. Thanks for listening, y'all. This was
a more cerebral episode than we've well we always do.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
We're very cepri very.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
We're always if you could see our text threat, oh.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Lord, oh lord. We're always thinking. We're thinking of brilliant
thoughts all day, every day. Just so we can come
on here and share with you our loving, adoring audience
that we appreciate so much.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yes, thank you for listening to another capitolo of Look
at a Radio. Let us know what you think, leave
a review, leave a comment on socials. We want to
know what you think of this episode and we'll catch
you next times. Loka to a Radio is executive produced
by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Stephanie Franco is our producer.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Story editing by Me viosa.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Creative direction by me Mala.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Look At a Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael
Tura podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You can listen to Locata Radio on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Leave us a review and share with your prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And thank you to our local motes, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Besitos Loga
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