October 30, 2024 • 35 mins
In this week's capítulo of Locatora Radio, award-winning investigative journalist and author, Peniley Ramírez discusses the making of a new Futuro Media and MyCultura Podcast, "Chess Piece: The Elian Gonzalez Story". This podcast tells the polarizing story of five-year-old, Elian Gonzalez, who was rescued near the Florida coast after his mother and others drowned in the Florida straits after fleeing Cuba. Peniley joins us to discuss how she immersed herself in this podcast and revealed her own story of family separation, exile, and Cuban identity both on and off the island.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Lok at Our Radio is a radiophonic novela.
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Dora Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present
and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning into Capitolo Doos
two twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Last time on locatora Radio. We answered listener questions during
our Oya Loka segment. You guys submitted some really really
good questions. It was a very fun episode. We laughed,
we cried, we told stories the whole thing. There were
literal tears, literal tears in the studios.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, Next question, what made you finally prioritize yourself?
Was it a breaking point with people?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Have we prioritized ourselves?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I think we were doing better at it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I think you're doing better at it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, well I think you are too. I think I
think you moving was a way of you like prioritizing
yourself and like a new phase of your life, like
giving yourself that.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Like, so go ahead and tune into that. Capitula leave
us a review, and today we have a very special
guest with US journalist Penni le Ramirez.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Benni Leira Meires is an award winning investigative journalist and author.
She serves as co CEO and executive director of Futuro Media,
leading news and investigations Latino USA and Futuro Investigates. She
writes a weekly column in Mexico for Reforma, and she
is also the host of a new podcast called Chess
(02:23):
Piece the Elian Gonzalez Story. This show that recently launched
on our network in collaboration with Futuro Studios, launched last
month and highlights Elian's journey from Gouba and being found
on the Floridian coast with people who lived it first hand.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
This is an incredible interview. If you don't remember the
Elian Gonzalez story, this is a really good intro not
only to what happened to Elian Gonzalez when he was
just a little boy at five years old, but it's
a conversation about family separation, about immigration, about the Cuban
American experience, and about the election season.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, let's do it. Well, thank you for joining us again.
Let's get started by if you can just introduce yourself,
tell us who you are and a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, my name is Penny Letter Medz and the reason
why I have this strange name is because I'm Cuban
and my parents fell in love with this some by
the Beatles called Penny Lane, so they made a tropical
version of it. So you will spell it as you
will spell. You pronounce it in Spanish, So Penny Lay
(03:31):
and I work as an im an investigative reporter, and
I have been working mostly on investigative reporting all my career,
but now I do other things. I'm the head of
News and Investigations at Futuro Media and I'm also the
co CEO and executive director.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Amazing. We are so grateful that you can join us today,
and we want to talk to you about the new
podcast that you made with Studios and my Coltura podcast.
Before that, we want to ask you about your background
and what led you to journalism. How did you get
your start?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, I don't think I always knew I wanted to
be a journalist, but I always knew I wanted to
do like fight against injiustices in general. So when I
left Cuba when I was fourteen years old, I went
to Mexico and then to the United States. So I
have been living mostly between Mexico and the US since
(04:26):
two those and one. I always have this desire to,
you know, investigate what's going on in the world. I
have two kids and a third one coming in about
a month and a half. I'm very pregnant these days.
I'm very happy about it, but also exhausted, and I
(04:48):
have been working a lot since the last two years,
and I have been working for Futuro, and before that
I moved to New York to complete my masters at
Cumbia University. So I have been enjoying the life in
New York so much. But I also have a lot
(05:09):
of roots in Miami because as a good Cuban family.
These days, I have more relatives in Miami than in Cuba,
which is something that we discuss a lot in the podcast.
And as most of my career has been as an
investigative reporter, I'm really not used to talk about myself
that much because I'm more used to investigate like corrupt
(05:33):
politicians or people hiding their money. I was part of
the investigation of the Panama Papers, for example, So I
feel way more comfortable interviewing an artcolord than talking about myself.
And this is why also this project has been a
huge challenging for me, not just because I'm pretty emotional
these days because I'm pregnant, but also because it's a
(05:56):
pretty emotional issue to talk about myself, to talk about
my Cuban roots, and also talk about something that I
never discussed it publicly before, which is family separation impacting
my family on my life.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, I love that you mentioned the challenge of immersing
yourself in the story, because you're fully immersed in this
new podcast chess piece, the Elian Gonzalez story. So can
you tell us more about your approach with merging this
journalism right this very beautiful narrative piece that's highly researched,
(06:30):
highly produced, but also immersing yourself in the story and
your own narrative.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, I think something that I think is like part
of the brand of the house in put to the studios,
is that we do a lot of journalism with heart,
as or funder Marino also likes to say a lot.
And I don't conceive one of our podcasts being just
telling this straight story, just the fact, without really understanding
(06:57):
why it matters, you know, how it is impacting our
communities and the communities that we report on. So Elean Gonzalez,
also known as El Valcerito, is a boy that is
a little younger than me, like five years younger than me,
but he was big news at the end of the nineties.
(07:18):
A lot of people in the US when you mentioned
Elian Gonzales, they remember some of the case. They remember
a specific picture that was so important in the case,
but we haven't talked about him in a while. But
this year, this November, we're turning twenty five years of
that case, and that case in that moment, I know
that we're all talking these days about the Menandez brothers
(07:41):
and Okay Simpson. But added to that combo, the Lean
case was one of this headlines news story that was
twenty four seven all over the news in the late nineties.
So the case started Thanksgiving of nineteen ninety nine, but
for months it was like twenty four seven in the
news cycle, and we were coming in the US from
(08:04):
these two big other cases that were like moving the
media a lot. So what we're doing right now is
we're retelling the case. We're doing deep research. We have
been investigating a lot. We have been interviewing people who
were like part of the case directly and indirectly. But
we're also taking the case beyond the particular story of
(08:26):
Elian Gonzalez, and we have been telling it in a
way that explains why family separation is social an issue
for Cubans, as you know, you know, as being part
of an immigrant community is family separation is always an issue,
regardless if your Cuban or not Cuban, but we Cube
us specifically because there is so much neopolitics into what
(08:50):
happens with our lives. Family separation is a big issue,
so it was kind of natural to emvent my story
on it because when we started the project, I remember
one of the conversations with our executive producers, Marlon Bishop
and Maria Garcia, and I told them, yeah, actually, I
was also separated from my father and we spent eight
(09:12):
years separated. So my father left Cuba in nineteen ninety eight,
a year before a Lean case, the Lians case started,
and he was living in Miami while this case was happening,
and I was living in Cuba. And the funny thing,
not that funny, is that while the Cuban government was
(09:33):
fighting so hard to reunite Alian Gonzalez with his father
in Cuba, the same government, the same Cuban government, was
preventing my father to be reunited with me and my brother.
So we thought that, you know, telling my case, interviewing
my father for the first time in my life, which
was again more difficult than interviewing the old clerks. It's
(09:57):
been given the series another toush, another level of proximity
with people who well to also relate to this final
separation and this Cuban experience, and in this I will
say this immigrant experience in general. So the podcast is
a story of aliens, the story of what happened and
why it had such a big impact in the US
(10:21):
back in the day, but also what happened to me,
what happened with my father, my brother, and why family
separation is social an issue among Cubans that it was
in nineteen ninety nine and that is stilled today, even
twenty five years later.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Don't go anywhere, locomotives.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We'll be right back, and we're back with more of
our episode. It's incredible, and I'm wondering your reflections twenty
five years later. I remember being a child and seeing
all of the commotion on the news, like the morning news,
(10:59):
especially before school, And I wonder what you think now
about why it was such a big deal. Was it
because it was Cuba, Was it because he was a
little boy? Was it because of the politics at the time.
And do you think that that story We're talking a
lot more these days about unaccompanied minors, right, and so
(11:20):
do you think that Elian Gonzalees story today would have
that same effect and reach and focus or was it
something of the time period.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think, first, I think it's an amazing question, and
I also recall the case, like you know, from those days.
I was a pre teen when the case started, and
I think we are now talking way more about family separation,
about on a company child, et cetera. But something I
(11:50):
have been thinking is like, even now the case will
be even more viral because one thing that one of
the people I interviewed, and I think it's it's kind
of key to understand the issue is like, you know,
geopolitics are complicated, but it's pretty easy to explain the case.
In this case was a child who came to the
(12:12):
United States with her his mother. I don't want to
spoiler a lot of it for those who doesn't know
the story, but he ends up without his mother in
Miami and the father in Cuba is claiming that he
wants him back. So it's pretty straightforward. Should the boy
remain in the United States with his relatives in Miami,
or the boy should go back to Cuba to be
(12:34):
with his father. So one of the people we interview
said is pretty straightforward and it's pretty easy to have
an opinion. Should the boy stay in the United States
in freedom with the relatives, you know, enjoy all the
benefits of living in the US, getting asylum, etc. Or
the boy should go back to Cuba to be with
(12:54):
his father. Even knowing all the problems that Cuba had
back in the day and has today, imagine that today
in TikTok days, with everybody posting videos having opinions about it.
It was such a passionate issue for Cubans. Especially if
you see the footage from those days, you will see
(13:17):
that the front of the house of the family of
Lian Gonzalez in Miami was packed with people. Of course
a lot of media there from all over the world.
We put in about the case every day, but also
like random people that were just going there to see
the boy. Some of the people we interview said that
he was like the pope, you know, he was coming
(13:37):
out of the house and everybody was like trying to
see him, try to touch him. So imagine Dad and
the craziness of today's viral posts or vital stories. So
I think that something that remains after twenty five years
is that the geopolitics of relationships between Cuba and the
(13:58):
US are still very complicated. You have seen in the
news what's been happening in Cuba in recent days. Situation
in Cuba's is still pretty bad. It's getting worse these days,
with no electricity, no food, no medicines, people protesting. But
at the core of it, there is still a lot
of famal separation. There is still a lot a lot
(14:18):
of people who are able to leave Cuba, but only
part of the family is leave in Cuba, the other
parties remaining in Cuba. So I think it's still a
pretty controversial issue, and that's partly why we wanted to
revisit the case after twenty five years, because we don't
think it's just a story from the past. We think
it's a story that is pretty current in terms of
(14:38):
what is happening with panel separation, with Cuba US relationships,
and also with the amount of kids coming to the
United States even today with out their parents.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So you mentioned the similarities between then and now and
family separation and asylum seeking. What similarities do you see
between Elian's experience and his story reflected in the current
issues with immigration, especially as we see elections coming up
(15:09):
and immigration continues to be, like the quote hot topic,
it continues to be the factor in a lot of
public debate and private conversations as well. So how do
you see those related, especially as we approach election season.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, that's another reason why we think it is relevant
to tell this story today, which is because immigration is
a top issue for US voters today. We have seen
that in every pole, what's happening with the border, what's
happening with immigration in generalistic still a top issue for voters.
(15:45):
And I think something that is important to understand is
that this case had an impact especially among Cubans living
in Miami, among those borders of South Florida. That's the
remain until today. So if you think that today we
have a lot of polarizing issues regarding election, regarding this
(16:09):
proposal for example, from the Trunk campaign about master deportations,
this proposal from the Harrist campaign regarding what are the
kinds of things that they should be doing too, as
she has been saying, correct this through this bill, et cetera.
There is still a lot to be work on regarding
(16:31):
what's happening with immigration. The border is still a big issue,
a big source of misinformation and disinformation we have been
also reputting in the media. So bringing back to a
case that is so sensitive regarding what should be done
to fix a system that is not working. It was
(16:53):
not working back then and it's not working today. And
what is beautiful about this podcast is that we do
from a very personal perspective. So we have data, and
we have you know, the narrative of what happened, and
we have a lot of explanation about the context, but
we also have a very human stories, not just my
(17:17):
own story and the story of my separation with my
dad from my dad, but other stories of panel separations.
What I think is key about telling these kind of
stories today is because beyond the political noise, we need
to remind ourselves that every immigrant story is a story
(17:37):
about a human being, and we need to remain I
think as journalists, I think there is a big responsibility
on remaining very human in our covers and I think
what the story does. The feedback that we have been
receiving from listeners is listeners is amazing. A lot of
(17:57):
the people saying that they cannot stop crying and when
they listen to the podcast, or that they can relate
to their own lives, their own experiences, their own emotions.
Is because we need to keep bringing the human experience
at the center of our covers because it is a
polarizing issue. For sure, it is a political issue, but
(18:20):
it's an issue immigration that involves real lives or real people,
and in this case, a pretty sensitive part of it,
which is what happens with a child separating from his
father or his mother. What are the consequences of that?
You know. One of the most difficult parts of the
(18:40):
podcast for me was when our amazing team of producers
and editors asked me what it meant to me when
I needed to write, you know, what happened with my
life after being separated from my dad for eight years?
What changed with How I could have been different if
(19:00):
that experience haven't been part of my life. And I
think a lot of us can relate to that. You know,
pause for a sec and think, you know, what my
immigrant story is telling about myself or about who I
am or who I am not how I am different
because of this experience. And I think it is a
big opportunity and I feel really honored to be able
(19:23):
to tush on an issue that is pretty political in
a moment that is pretty polarizing, but explaining it from
this place that is deeply human and deeply emotional.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
We hope you're enjoying this interview.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Stay tuned, We're back, and we hope you enjoy the
rest of the interview. How involved has Elian Gonzalez himself
been in the telling of his story, especially he's an
adult now and in the years since the incident, and yeah,
(20:01):
how involved is he not only in the podcast, but
I think in general just in this story and understanding
it all these years later.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Well, as you said, eleanis an adult now when so
in the podcast, what we explain is when everything happened.
When he came to the US, he was five years old,
and then he turned six while living in Miami, so
he was everything. Everybody was talking about him, but he
was not really saying almost anything. He was a kid.
(20:33):
And then he went back to Cuba and we talked
about We talked about this in the podcast a lot,
and he became kind of the favorite kid of the revolution.
So he was in these public events with Phileel Castro.
Philel Castro was attending his birthday parties some years so
he became like a pretty symbolic figure for the Cuban Revolution.
(20:55):
As of course, Miami Cubans were expecting and fearing when
he was in my still in Miami. But through the
years he had been giving some interviews and he had
been saying saying things that are pretty concerning for Miami Cubans, like,
for example, he once said that he believed that he
didn't believe in God, but if he had a God,
(21:16):
that God would be that God would be filed Castro,
or saying that he had a true sign since their
friendship with Fiel Castro saying that he felt like he
owed the Cuban revolution to stay there and be in
Cuba because the Cuban people fight for his return. So
(21:36):
I don't want to overspoil what is in the podcast,
but we touched a lot on what happened when Elean
started giving interviews and explaining himself and explaining his reasons,
his reasons to remain in Cuba even as an adult.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Can you tell us more about the politics at the
time and maybe even now, how they look for Cubans
in Miami and Cubans on the island.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yes. I think something else that the podcast does really
well is that explains what's the difference between being a
Cuban in Cuba and being a Cuban in Miami. We
have an entire episode when we detail and explain what
is that something up, something called the exile ideology, and
(22:24):
why Miami Cubans are, you know, so reluctant to give anything,
any credit back to the revolution because they have lost
a lot. So we explain a lot that the US
politics around Cuba since the beginning of the revolution have been,
you know, granting asylum to many Cubans. For US Cubans
(22:47):
is relatively easy to get, you know, asylum, a green card,
and citizenship in the United States, unlike many other immigrants
from many other countries. So that put us in a place,
in a privileged place with regards of other immigrants. But
at the same time, the fact that many Cubans came
(23:10):
to the United States with the idea that they are
just going to be here for a couple of months
or maybe just a short period of time, because they
are not immigrants to our exiles and they are gonna
go back. We have a beautiful episode that is anchored
by our associate producer Tasha Sandoval, and she speaks with
(23:30):
her grandmother who came to the United States in the
early sixties, and she even says that she thought it
was going to be for a couple of months and
she hasn't never returned. So the difference between immigration when
you're a Cuban versus in another country is that you
know you're not going back. If you're Mexican, for example,
(23:51):
I have spent many years of my life in Mexico.
If you're a Mexican immigrant going to the United States,
you have this hope of sending money, then your casitaing
back in your town, retiring back in your town, going
back for the holidays. So you think that you have
a rut back. Sometimes you don't do it, but you
have this feeling of belonging and I can go back
(24:14):
to my land, I can live in my homeland, I
can build my house there. But in Cuba it's a
pretty definitive decision. So if you leave Cuba, you leave
and there is no coming back. And on the other hand,
but the Cubans that remain in Cuba, there's been so
much propaganda against the Cuban exiles. So the fact that
(24:37):
even today the Cuban government calls guzanos to those Cubans
in Miami. So worms so use these terms to relate
and to define other people who are your same nationalities.
Sometimes there are even your relatives. So we get a
really good sense in the podcast about what are the
difference of the Cuban experience in both size of the
(25:00):
Florida Straits and what are the things that are really
affecting you know, regular people. Sometimes a member of the
of the same family, like the gonzalez of Miami and
the Gonzalezes of Cuba. So the fact that this family
was torn apart by the case of Ilian explains a
lot of what's happening with other Cuban families separated by
(25:24):
this strait of ocean. That is pretty it is only
ninety miles, but it's like an entire different universe if
you are in one place or in the other place.
And one good thing about you know, my experience as
the as a host of the podcast is I was
living in Cuba when everything happened, so I had this
(25:45):
Cuban experience of the case. But then I moved to
the US. My entire most of my family lives in Miami.
Therefore I have this good sense of the Miami Cuban
experience as well.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Historically, Cuban Americans, it's an election year it's twenty five
years since Elian Gonzalez. You've mentioned Trump and commentary about
mass deportations, and historically Cuban Americans have been known to
be Republican voters. Do you think that the same will
be true this election cycle or what is it that
(26:21):
you predict or are observing as far as Cuban Americans
and voting this election.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Well, apart from this podcast, we have been doing a
lot of reporting on Futro Media. I'm also leading the
Latino USA team, and something that we have been reporting
a lot on the ground, even in Florida, is that
there is a lot of you know, Republican voting intention.
We see that in the polls, and there is a
(26:49):
lot of as well, misinformation targeting Latinos, especially Latinos who
are informing themselves in Spanish. That doesn't mean, of course,
that any person voting for Republicans is because they're they're
they're reading misinformation, but it is true that a lot
of the things that we have been hearing on the
(27:11):
ground are informed on. For example, a narrative that is
really prevalent these days that Kamala is Kamala Harris is
is a communist or is a Marxist or wants to
to turn the US into Venezuela. So a lot of
(27:34):
what's happening today in US politics, really related to Cubans
in particular, is really infused with the fear of the
past of you know, the fear of communism, the fear
of Marxism, the fear of the things that many of
US Cubans dealt with in Cuba. And it's most of
(27:59):
the same of the reasons why we left the country.
So a lot of the boat right now is informed
by the fears. A lot of the vote it's informed
by the kind of things that they will wanted to see.
And that doesn't mean that all Cubans are voting Republican,
(28:21):
but that's what we have been hearing from all reputting
for those who have said that they are voting Republican,
but the ones that are voting or saying that they're
going to vote Democrat, I think they expect to see
something that we kind of saw during the Obama administration
that was like getting another approach to the Cuban US
(28:46):
relations with trying to relate to the Cuban government, or
approach the Uran Cuban government government, or try to alleviate
the big economical struggles that Cubans in Cuba are dealing
with these days, and specifically about something that's been in
place for decades now, which is the US sanctions in
(29:09):
Cuba that have been a key part to explain, you know,
the you know, what's been happening with the economy of
Cuba for all these decades. So I think it is
important to talk about Ilian today because Elian happened in
nineteen ninety nine and two thousand, and a lot of
people that we have interviewed with this podcast think that
(29:33):
the Liang case defined the US election in two thousand because,
as you might remember, that election was defined by the
vote of Florida, and there was something that happened that
it was called Elboto Castillo, So the punishment vote for
those Cubans, some of them tend to be republic tend
(29:57):
to be Democrats before the Elian case, but then they
moved republican. We found even some people saying that they
remembered people saying, remember Elian vote Republican. So in some
parts of the Cuban American community you still can hear
that Elian represented a switch for those who were Democrats
(30:20):
and started voting Republican, that that's a switch that is
maintained even today, and also that as far as twenty
five years have passed. Elian also explains partly that part
of the Cuban population that is willing to vote for
Trump again this election year.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Wow, there's so much there and how wild that it's
also an electioneer again, and that the story is I'm
sure intentionally timed in that way, but that's just so
wild because there are these cases that can really sway
a voter to go one way or the other. So
I want to ask you about Elian's story, the podcast
(31:00):
and what you hope listeners will walk away with after
listening to this new series.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Well, I hope they understand better the Cuban experience. I
think that is a good thing of this podcast is
that it's a really nuanced podcast that explains that not
everything is black and white. That you know that even
if you thought that the Elian should remain in the
(31:27):
US or should go back to Cuba, I think that you,
as a listener will get a good sense of why
people were thinking one way or the other way, where
why people were so passionate about this case, why people
like as I said, like why random people will go
and pray outside of the Miami House of Alien's Relatives,
(31:52):
why people in Cuba were going to be we're out protesting,
like thousands of people protest insane bringing lean back, But
also why this case is not unique. So I hope
that you can relate to your own experience, if you
have an experience of immigration in your own family, and
(32:14):
if you don't, that you can understand better the overall
experience of how difficult family separation it is, how difficult it
was back in the day, and how difficult it is
still today, and you get a sense of what's happening
right now. I think it is one of those cases
that you really understand the present by looking at the past.
(32:38):
And I hope that they feel some of my emotions
as well, because it's been quite a challenge to explain
how something that was, you know, a high political case
(32:58):
impacted that life of someone like me that now I'm
a journalist, but back then I was just a girl,
you know, missing my dad, and how you can get
a sense that journalism also works in that sense, also
helps you to understand that behind every political, big story
(33:19):
there is the lives of someone and the experiences and
emotions of a family that could be your family one day.
So I hope that the listeners get the sense of
how much we put our heart into this story, but
also how much you can learn about what happened and
what's happening today.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Penny Lay, thank you so much for coming on look
At Radio and talking about your work and the podcast.
Can you let our listeners know where they can tune
in to Chess Peace, the Eli and Gonzalez story.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yes. So, Chess Peace is a production of Futura Studios,
so you can listen to it in the Futura Studio's website,
but it is in partnership with Iheartsmichael Tuda podcast network,
so that's through Michael Tura you can also access You
can listen to the new episodes every Wednesday, and we
have a total of ten episodes and you can listen
(34:15):
to it wherever you get your podcast, and you can
follow us. We have been posting a lot about and
I would love to hear from listeners. You know how
you relate to this story, what kind of emotions the
story is bringing to you, And I hope you'll listen,
and I hope you followed along with us in on
this journey because the intention is that we are going
(34:37):
to be ending the season with the anniversary, the actual
anniversary of the moment when Elian was found at See
and Thanksgiving of nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Thank you so much, Pennile, this has been incredible. Thank
you for sharing your story and all the work that
goes into making an exceptional podcast. So thank you. Look
at Our Radio is executive produced by Yosa Fam and
Mala Munios.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Stephanie Franco is our producer.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Story editing by me viosa.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Creative direction by me Mala.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Look at a Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael
Gura podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You can listen to look at Radio on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Leave us a review and share with your Prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And thank you to our local motives, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Besite us
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Loga Loui
Lok at Our Radio is a radiophonic novela.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm fiosa fem.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am ma la munios. We're podcasting through another
Trump election year. We've been podcasting through election years, a
global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies, the Me Too movement,
the rise of TikTok, and we are still here. We're
not done telling stories.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even
podcasting through a new decade of our lives.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Since twenty sixteen, we've been making Loca to Our Radio
independently until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Gura Network in twenty
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
From our Lips to your ears, Fall in love with
Loka to a radio like you never have before.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Season nine. Love that first Listen.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Ola la Loka Morees. Welcome to Season nine of lok
at Dora Radio. I'm Theosa and I'm Mala. Lok A
Dora Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present
and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning into Capitolo Doos
two twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Last time on locatora Radio. We answered listener questions during
our Oya Loka segment. You guys submitted some really really
good questions. It was a very fun episode. We laughed,
we cried, we told stories the whole thing. There were
literal tears, literal tears in the studios.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, Next question, what made you finally prioritize yourself?
Was it a breaking point with people?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Have we prioritized ourselves?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I think we were doing better at it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I think you're doing better at it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, well I think you are too. I think I
think you moving was a way of you like prioritizing
yourself and like a new phase of your life, like
giving yourself that.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Like, so go ahead and tune into that. Capitula leave
us a review, and today we have a very special
guest with US journalist Penni le Ramirez.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Benni Leira Meires is an award winning investigative journalist and author.
She serves as co CEO and executive director of Futuro Media,
leading news and investigations Latino USA and Futuro Investigates. She
writes a weekly column in Mexico for Reforma, and she
is also the host of a new podcast called Chess
(02:23):
Piece the Elian Gonzalez Story. This show that recently launched
on our network in collaboration with Futuro Studios, launched last
month and highlights Elian's journey from Gouba and being found
on the Floridian coast with people who lived it first hand.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
This is an incredible interview. If you don't remember the
Elian Gonzalez story, this is a really good intro not
only to what happened to Elian Gonzalez when he was
just a little boy at five years old, but it's
a conversation about family separation, about immigration, about the Cuban
American experience, and about the election season.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, let's do it. Well, thank you for joining us again.
Let's get started by if you can just introduce yourself,
tell us who you are and a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, my name is Penny Letter Medz and the reason
why I have this strange name is because I'm Cuban
and my parents fell in love with this some by
the Beatles called Penny Lane, so they made a tropical
version of it. So you will spell it as you
will spell. You pronounce it in Spanish, So Penny Lay
(03:31):
and I work as an im an investigative reporter, and
I have been working mostly on investigative reporting all my career,
but now I do other things. I'm the head of
News and Investigations at Futuro Media and I'm also the
co CEO and executive director.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Amazing. We are so grateful that you can join us today,
and we want to talk to you about the new
podcast that you made with Studios and my Coltura podcast.
Before that, we want to ask you about your background
and what led you to journalism. How did you get
your start?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, I don't think I always knew I wanted to
be a journalist, but I always knew I wanted to
do like fight against injiustices in general. So when I
left Cuba when I was fourteen years old, I went
to Mexico and then to the United States. So I
have been living mostly between Mexico and the US since
(04:26):
two those and one. I always have this desire to,
you know, investigate what's going on in the world. I
have two kids and a third one coming in about
a month and a half. I'm very pregnant these days.
I'm very happy about it, but also exhausted, and I
(04:48):
have been working a lot since the last two years,
and I have been working for Futuro, and before that
I moved to New York to complete my masters at
Cumbia University. So I have been enjoying the life in
New York so much. But I also have a lot
(05:09):
of roots in Miami because as a good Cuban family.
These days, I have more relatives in Miami than in Cuba,
which is something that we discuss a lot in the podcast.
And as most of my career has been as an
investigative reporter, I'm really not used to talk about myself
that much because I'm more used to investigate like corrupt
(05:33):
politicians or people hiding their money. I was part of
the investigation of the Panama Papers, for example, So I
feel way more comfortable interviewing an artcolord than talking about myself.
And this is why also this project has been a
huge challenging for me, not just because I'm pretty emotional
these days because I'm pregnant, but also because it's a
(05:56):
pretty emotional issue to talk about myself, to talk about
my Cuban roots, and also talk about something that I
never discussed it publicly before, which is family separation impacting
my family on my life.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, I love that you mentioned the challenge of immersing
yourself in the story, because you're fully immersed in this
new podcast chess piece, the Elian Gonzalez story. So can
you tell us more about your approach with merging this
journalism right this very beautiful narrative piece that's highly researched,
(06:30):
highly produced, but also immersing yourself in the story and
your own narrative.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, I think something that I think is like part
of the brand of the house in put to the studios,
is that we do a lot of journalism with heart,
as or funder Marino also likes to say a lot.
And I don't conceive one of our podcasts being just
telling this straight story, just the fact, without really understanding
(06:57):
why it matters, you know, how it is impacting our
communities and the communities that we report on. So Elean Gonzalez,
also known as El Valcerito, is a boy that is
a little younger than me, like five years younger than me,
but he was big news at the end of the nineties.
(07:18):
A lot of people in the US when you mentioned
Elian Gonzales, they remember some of the case. They remember
a specific picture that was so important in the case,
but we haven't talked about him in a while. But
this year, this November, we're turning twenty five years of
that case, and that case in that moment, I know
that we're all talking these days about the Menandez brothers
(07:41):
and Okay Simpson. But added to that combo, the Lean
case was one of this headlines news story that was
twenty four seven all over the news in the late nineties.
So the case started Thanksgiving of nineteen ninety nine, but
for months it was like twenty four seven in the
news cycle, and we were coming in the US from
(08:04):
these two big other cases that were like moving the
media a lot. So what we're doing right now is
we're retelling the case. We're doing deep research. We have
been investigating a lot. We have been interviewing people who
were like part of the case directly and indirectly. But
we're also taking the case beyond the particular story of
(08:26):
Elian Gonzalez, and we have been telling it in a
way that explains why family separation is social an issue
for Cubans, as you know, you know, as being part
of an immigrant community is family separation is always an issue,
regardless if your Cuban or not Cuban, but we Cube
us specifically because there is so much neopolitics into what
(08:50):
happens with our lives. Family separation is a big issue,
so it was kind of natural to emvent my story
on it because when we started the project, I remember
one of the conversations with our executive producers, Marlon Bishop
and Maria Garcia, and I told them, yeah, actually, I
was also separated from my father and we spent eight
(09:12):
years separated. So my father left Cuba in nineteen ninety eight,
a year before a Lean case, the Lians case started,
and he was living in Miami while this case was happening,
and I was living in Cuba. And the funny thing,
not that funny, is that while the Cuban government was
(09:33):
fighting so hard to reunite Alian Gonzalez with his father
in Cuba, the same government, the same Cuban government, was
preventing my father to be reunited with me and my brother.
So we thought that, you know, telling my case, interviewing
my father for the first time in my life, which
was again more difficult than interviewing the old clerks. It's
(09:57):
been given the series another toush, another level of proximity
with people who well to also relate to this final
separation and this Cuban experience, and in this I will
say this immigrant experience in general. So the podcast is
a story of aliens, the story of what happened and
why it had such a big impact in the US
(10:21):
back in the day, but also what happened to me,
what happened with my father, my brother, and why family
separation is social an issue among Cubans that it was
in nineteen ninety nine and that is stilled today, even
twenty five years later.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Don't go anywhere, locomotives.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We'll be right back, and we're back with more of
our episode. It's incredible, and I'm wondering your reflections twenty
five years later. I remember being a child and seeing
all of the commotion on the news, like the morning news,
(10:59):
especially before school, And I wonder what you think now
about why it was such a big deal. Was it
because it was Cuba, Was it because he was a
little boy? Was it because of the politics at the time.
And do you think that that story We're talking a
lot more these days about unaccompanied minors, right, and so
(11:20):
do you think that Elian Gonzalees story today would have
that same effect and reach and focus or was it
something of the time period.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think, first, I think it's an amazing question, and
I also recall the case, like you know, from those days.
I was a pre teen when the case started, and
I think we are now talking way more about family separation,
about on a company child, et cetera. But something I
(11:50):
have been thinking is like, even now the case will
be even more viral because one thing that one of
the people I interviewed, and I think it's it's kind
of key to understand the issue is like, you know,
geopolitics are complicated, but it's pretty easy to explain the case.
In this case was a child who came to the
(12:12):
United States with her his mother. I don't want to
spoiler a lot of it for those who doesn't know
the story, but he ends up without his mother in
Miami and the father in Cuba is claiming that he
wants him back. So it's pretty straightforward. Should the boy
remain in the United States with his relatives in Miami,
or the boy should go back to Cuba to be
(12:34):
with his father. So one of the people we interview
said is pretty straightforward and it's pretty easy to have
an opinion. Should the boy stay in the United States
in freedom with the relatives, you know, enjoy all the
benefits of living in the US, getting asylum, etc. Or
the boy should go back to Cuba to be with
(12:54):
his father. Even knowing all the problems that Cuba had
back in the day and has today, imagine that today
in TikTok days, with everybody posting videos having opinions about it.
It was such a passionate issue for Cubans. Especially if
you see the footage from those days, you will see
(13:17):
that the front of the house of the family of
Lian Gonzalez in Miami was packed with people. Of course
a lot of media there from all over the world.
We put in about the case every day, but also
like random people that were just going there to see
the boy. Some of the people we interview said that
he was like the pope, you know, he was coming
(13:37):
out of the house and everybody was like trying to
see him, try to touch him. So imagine Dad and
the craziness of today's viral posts or vital stories. So
I think that something that remains after twenty five years
is that the geopolitics of relationships between Cuba and the
(13:58):
US are still very complicated. You have seen in the
news what's been happening in Cuba in recent days. Situation
in Cuba's is still pretty bad. It's getting worse these days,
with no electricity, no food, no medicines, people protesting. But
at the core of it, there is still a lot
of famal separation. There is still a lot a lot
(14:18):
of people who are able to leave Cuba, but only
part of the family is leave in Cuba, the other
parties remaining in Cuba. So I think it's still a
pretty controversial issue, and that's partly why we wanted to
revisit the case after twenty five years, because we don't
think it's just a story from the past. We think
it's a story that is pretty current in terms of
(14:38):
what is happening with panel separation, with Cuba US relationships,
and also with the amount of kids coming to the
United States even today with out their parents.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So you mentioned the similarities between then and now and
family separation and asylum seeking. What similarities do you see
between Elian's experience and his story reflected in the current
issues with immigration, especially as we see elections coming up
(15:09):
and immigration continues to be, like the quote hot topic,
it continues to be the factor in a lot of
public debate and private conversations as well. So how do
you see those related, especially as we approach election season.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, that's another reason why we think it is relevant
to tell this story today, which is because immigration is
a top issue for US voters today. We have seen
that in every pole, what's happening with the border, what's
happening with immigration in generalistic still a top issue for voters.
(15:45):
And I think something that is important to understand is
that this case had an impact especially among Cubans living
in Miami, among those borders of South Florida. That's the
remain until today. So if you think that today we
have a lot of polarizing issues regarding election, regarding this
(16:09):
proposal for example, from the Trunk campaign about master deportations,
this proposal from the Harrist campaign regarding what are the
kinds of things that they should be doing too, as
she has been saying, correct this through this bill, et cetera.
There is still a lot to be work on regarding
(16:31):
what's happening with immigration. The border is still a big issue,
a big source of misinformation and disinformation we have been
also reputting in the media. So bringing back to a
case that is so sensitive regarding what should be done
to fix a system that is not working. It was
(16:53):
not working back then and it's not working today. And
what is beautiful about this podcast is that we do
from a very personal perspective. So we have data, and
we have you know, the narrative of what happened, and
we have a lot of explanation about the context, but
we also have a very human stories, not just my
(17:17):
own story and the story of my separation with my
dad from my dad, but other stories of panel separations.
What I think is key about telling these kind of
stories today is because beyond the political noise, we need
to remind ourselves that every immigrant story is a story
(17:37):
about a human being, and we need to remain I
think as journalists, I think there is a big responsibility
on remaining very human in our covers and I think
what the story does. The feedback that we have been
receiving from listeners is listeners is amazing. A lot of
(17:57):
the people saying that they cannot stop crying and when
they listen to the podcast, or that they can relate
to their own lives, their own experiences, their own emotions.
Is because we need to keep bringing the human experience
at the center of our covers because it is a
polarizing issue. For sure, it is a political issue, but
(18:20):
it's an issue immigration that involves real lives or real people,
and in this case, a pretty sensitive part of it,
which is what happens with a child separating from his
father or his mother. What are the consequences of that?
You know. One of the most difficult parts of the
(18:40):
podcast for me was when our amazing team of producers
and editors asked me what it meant to me when
I needed to write, you know, what happened with my
life after being separated from my dad for eight years?
What changed with How I could have been different if
(19:00):
that experience haven't been part of my life. And I
think a lot of us can relate to that. You know,
pause for a sec and think, you know, what my
immigrant story is telling about myself or about who I
am or who I am not how I am different
because of this experience. And I think it is a
big opportunity and I feel really honored to be able
(19:23):
to tush on an issue that is pretty political in
a moment that is pretty polarizing, but explaining it from
this place that is deeply human and deeply emotional.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
We hope you're enjoying this interview.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Stay tuned, We're back, and we hope you enjoy the
rest of the interview. How involved has Elian Gonzalez himself
been in the telling of his story, especially he's an
adult now and in the years since the incident, and yeah,
(20:01):
how involved is he not only in the podcast, but
I think in general just in this story and understanding
it all these years later.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Well, as you said, eleanis an adult now when so
in the podcast, what we explain is when everything happened.
When he came to the US, he was five years old,
and then he turned six while living in Miami, so
he was everything. Everybody was talking about him, but he
was not really saying almost anything. He was a kid.
(20:33):
And then he went back to Cuba and we talked
about We talked about this in the podcast a lot,
and he became kind of the favorite kid of the revolution.
So he was in these public events with Phileel Castro.
Philel Castro was attending his birthday parties some years so
he became like a pretty symbolic figure for the Cuban Revolution.
(20:55):
As of course, Miami Cubans were expecting and fearing when
he was in my still in Miami. But through the
years he had been giving some interviews and he had
been saying saying things that are pretty concerning for Miami Cubans, like,
for example, he once said that he believed that he
didn't believe in God, but if he had a God,
(21:16):
that God would be that God would be filed Castro,
or saying that he had a true sign since their
friendship with Fiel Castro saying that he felt like he
owed the Cuban revolution to stay there and be in
Cuba because the Cuban people fight for his return. So
(21:36):
I don't want to overspoil what is in the podcast,
but we touched a lot on what happened when Elean
started giving interviews and explaining himself and explaining his reasons,
his reasons to remain in Cuba even as an adult.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Can you tell us more about the politics at the
time and maybe even now, how they look for Cubans
in Miami and Cubans on the island.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yes. I think something else that the podcast does really
well is that explains what's the difference between being a
Cuban in Cuba and being a Cuban in Miami. We
have an entire episode when we detail and explain what
is that something up, something called the exile ideology, and
(22:24):
why Miami Cubans are, you know, so reluctant to give anything,
any credit back to the revolution because they have lost
a lot. So we explain a lot that the US
politics around Cuba since the beginning of the revolution have been,
you know, granting asylum to many Cubans. For US Cubans
(22:47):
is relatively easy to get, you know, asylum, a green card,
and citizenship in the United States, unlike many other immigrants
from many other countries. So that put us in a place,
in a privileged place with regards of other immigrants. But
at the same time, the fact that many Cubans came
(23:10):
to the United States with the idea that they are
just going to be here for a couple of months
or maybe just a short period of time, because they
are not immigrants to our exiles and they are gonna
go back. We have a beautiful episode that is anchored
by our associate producer Tasha Sandoval, and she speaks with
(23:30):
her grandmother who came to the United States in the
early sixties, and she even says that she thought it
was going to be for a couple of months and
she hasn't never returned. So the difference between immigration when
you're a Cuban versus in another country is that you
know you're not going back. If you're Mexican, for example,
(23:51):
I have spent many years of my life in Mexico.
If you're a Mexican immigrant going to the United States,
you have this hope of sending money, then your casitaing
back in your town, retiring back in your town, going
back for the holidays. So you think that you have
a rut back. Sometimes you don't do it, but you
have this feeling of belonging and I can go back
(24:14):
to my land, I can live in my homeland, I
can build my house there. But in Cuba it's a
pretty definitive decision. So if you leave Cuba, you leave
and there is no coming back. And on the other hand,
but the Cubans that remain in Cuba, there's been so
much propaganda against the Cuban exiles. So the fact that
(24:37):
even today the Cuban government calls guzanos to those Cubans
in Miami. So worms so use these terms to relate
and to define other people who are your same nationalities.
Sometimes there are even your relatives. So we get a
really good sense in the podcast about what are the
difference of the Cuban experience in both size of the
(25:00):
Florida Straits and what are the things that are really
affecting you know, regular people. Sometimes a member of the
of the same family, like the gonzalez of Miami and
the Gonzalezes of Cuba. So the fact that this family
was torn apart by the case of Ilian explains a
lot of what's happening with other Cuban families separated by
(25:24):
this strait of ocean. That is pretty it is only
ninety miles, but it's like an entire different universe if
you are in one place or in the other place.
And one good thing about you know, my experience as
the as a host of the podcast is I was
living in Cuba when everything happened, so I had this
(25:45):
Cuban experience of the case. But then I moved to
the US. My entire most of my family lives in Miami.
Therefore I have this good sense of the Miami Cuban
experience as well.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Historically, Cuban Americans, it's an election year it's twenty five
years since Elian Gonzalez. You've mentioned Trump and commentary about
mass deportations, and historically Cuban Americans have been known to
be Republican voters. Do you think that the same will
be true this election cycle or what is it that
(26:21):
you predict or are observing as far as Cuban Americans
and voting this election.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Well, apart from this podcast, we have been doing a
lot of reporting on Futro Media. I'm also leading the
Latino USA team, and something that we have been reporting
a lot on the ground, even in Florida, is that
there is a lot of you know, Republican voting intention.
We see that in the polls, and there is a
(26:49):
lot of as well, misinformation targeting Latinos, especially Latinos who
are informing themselves in Spanish. That doesn't mean, of course,
that any person voting for Republicans is because they're they're
they're reading misinformation, but it is true that a lot
of the things that we have been hearing on the
(27:11):
ground are informed on. For example, a narrative that is
really prevalent these days that Kamala is Kamala Harris is
is a communist or is a Marxist or wants to
to turn the US into Venezuela. So a lot of
(27:34):
what's happening today in US politics, really related to Cubans
in particular, is really infused with the fear of the
past of you know, the fear of communism, the fear
of Marxism, the fear of the things that many of
US Cubans dealt with in Cuba. And it's most of
(27:59):
the same of the reasons why we left the country.
So a lot of the boat right now is informed
by the fears. A lot of the vote it's informed
by the kind of things that they will wanted to see.
And that doesn't mean that all Cubans are voting Republican,
(28:21):
but that's what we have been hearing from all reputting
for those who have said that they are voting Republican,
but the ones that are voting or saying that they're
going to vote Democrat, I think they expect to see
something that we kind of saw during the Obama administration
that was like getting another approach to the Cuban US
(28:46):
relations with trying to relate to the Cuban government, or
approach the Uran Cuban government government, or try to alleviate
the big economical struggles that Cubans in Cuba are dealing
with these days, and specifically about something that's been in
place for decades now, which is the US sanctions in
(29:09):
Cuba that have been a key part to explain, you know,
the you know, what's been happening with the economy of
Cuba for all these decades. So I think it is
important to talk about Ilian today because Elian happened in
nineteen ninety nine and two thousand, and a lot of
people that we have interviewed with this podcast think that
(29:33):
the Liang case defined the US election in two thousand because,
as you might remember, that election was defined by the
vote of Florida, and there was something that happened that
it was called Elboto Castillo, So the punishment vote for
those Cubans, some of them tend to be republic tend
(29:57):
to be Democrats before the Elian case, but then they
moved republican. We found even some people saying that they
remembered people saying, remember Elian vote Republican. So in some
parts of the Cuban American community you still can hear
that Elian represented a switch for those who were Democrats
(30:20):
and started voting Republican, that that's a switch that is
maintained even today, and also that as far as twenty
five years have passed. Elian also explains partly that part
of the Cuban population that is willing to vote for
Trump again this election year.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Wow, there's so much there and how wild that it's
also an electioneer again, and that the story is I'm
sure intentionally timed in that way, but that's just so
wild because there are these cases that can really sway
a voter to go one way or the other. So
I want to ask you about Elian's story, the podcast
(31:00):
and what you hope listeners will walk away with after
listening to this new series.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Well, I hope they understand better the Cuban experience. I
think that is a good thing of this podcast is
that it's a really nuanced podcast that explains that not
everything is black and white. That you know that even
if you thought that the Elian should remain in the
(31:27):
US or should go back to Cuba, I think that you,
as a listener will get a good sense of why
people were thinking one way or the other way, where
why people were so passionate about this case, why people
like as I said, like why random people will go
and pray outside of the Miami House of Alien's Relatives,
(31:52):
why people in Cuba were going to be we're out protesting,
like thousands of people protest insane bringing lean back, But
also why this case is not unique. So I hope
that you can relate to your own experience, if you
have an experience of immigration in your own family, and
(32:14):
if you don't, that you can understand better the overall
experience of how difficult family separation it is, how difficult it
was back in the day, and how difficult it is
still today, and you get a sense of what's happening
right now. I think it is one of those cases
that you really understand the present by looking at the past.
(32:38):
And I hope that they feel some of my emotions
as well, because it's been quite a challenge to explain
how something that was, you know, a high political case
(32:58):
impacted that life of someone like me that now I'm
a journalist, but back then I was just a girl,
you know, missing my dad, and how you can get
a sense that journalism also works in that sense, also
helps you to understand that behind every political, big story
(33:19):
there is the lives of someone and the experiences and
emotions of a family that could be your family one day.
So I hope that the listeners get the sense of
how much we put our heart into this story, but
also how much you can learn about what happened and
what's happening today.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Penny Lay, thank you so much for coming on look
At Radio and talking about your work and the podcast.
Can you let our listeners know where they can tune
in to Chess Peace, the Eli and Gonzalez story.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yes. So, Chess Peace is a production of Futura Studios,
so you can listen to it in the Futura Studio's website,
but it is in partnership with Iheartsmichael Tuda podcast network,
so that's through Michael Tura you can also access You
can listen to the new episodes every Wednesday, and we
have a total of ten episodes and you can listen
(34:15):
to it wherever you get your podcast, and you can
follow us. We have been posting a lot about and
I would love to hear from listeners. You know how
you relate to this story, what kind of emotions the
story is bringing to you, And I hope you'll listen,
and I hope you followed along with us in on
this journey because the intention is that we are going
(34:37):
to be ending the season with the anniversary, the actual
anniversary of the moment when Elian was found at See
and Thanksgiving of nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Thank you so much, Pennile, this has been incredible. Thank
you for sharing your story and all the work that
goes into making an exceptional podcast. So thank you. Look
at Our Radio is executive produced by Yosa Fam and
Mala Munios.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Stephanie Franco is our producer.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Story editing by me viosa.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Creative direction by me Mala.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Look at a Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael
Gura podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You can listen to look at Radio on the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Leave us a review and share with your Prima or
share with your homegirl.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And thank you to our local motives, to our listeners
for tuning in each and every week.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Besite us
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Loga Loui
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