March 18, 2022 • 20 mins
What’s the craziest thing you’ve done for love? Dr. Sandra Langeslag is here to explain how exactly our brains change when we fall in love – and here’s a spoiler: it’s serious impairment. Sarah and Alisha ask Dr. Langelsag for neuro strategies for getting over heartbreak, and dive deep into the literal science of romance.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crazy, silly love. Why is it that falling in love
makes us so ridiculous, especially in areas where we usually
think we're so smart, and we're not just talking metaphorically,
We're talking our literal brain chemistry deteriorating when we fall
in love. I'm Sarah Wendell, I'm Alicia or I Welcome
to Love Struck Daily, where we bring a love story
(00:22):
to your years every single day. I'm in love with
the love with you, Alicia. Has falling in love affected
(00:42):
your brain? Yeah? Now I have been through falling in
love brain and I've been through pregnancy brain, and I
can tell you there are some similarities. And I think
like pandemic brain is also in there somewhere. Yeah, pognitive
exhaustion brain is definitely a thing. Like I was talking
to my editor the other day and I said, I
(01:02):
don't know why I can't get this like one part
of my book to work with a big kind of
conflict part basically the book. I can't get the book
to work. And she goes, well, it's probably because you're
in love, and we both kind of laughed. But now
I think it's real. I think it's because I'm I
think it's because I'm happy and I'm in love, and
I can't write any kind of conflict anymore at the moment,
(01:23):
because you know, I just want to like write rainbows
and puppies. One thing I've noticed is when one of
my children has had a crush and their experience having
a crush for the first time. A crush can make
you so silly and like incapable of doing like regular
things that you normally do, utterly filled to the broom
(01:46):
with big emotions and emotions. I mean, people sort of
have this expectation that when you're an adult, you have
control over your feelings all the time. No, no, no, no no, no, no,
I think I have less control. Yeah, but I am
fascinating did by the idea of what your brain does
and the idea of your brain and love. Which is
cool because today we are going to be chatting with
(02:09):
a literal expert on what your brain is doing when
your brain is in love. Dr Sandra langes La is
one of the researchers on a famous study about why
we temporarily can't talk, or we say things we don't mean,
and a whole host of other silly, silly things when
we are falling in love. Dr lanes Law is a
(02:29):
neurocognitive expert who specializes in how infatuation affects our brains.
Please welcome Dr Sandra Longest Law. Welcome, Dr Longest. La
is so nice to talk to you. I am so
excited to hear about your research. Can you tell me
about what you're studying? Yea, so thanks so much for
(02:51):
having me. I'm very excited to beyond the show. I
study the neurocognition of emotion and motivation in general and
of romantic love and particular. What led you into this field?
What led you into this research? Already before I started
studying psychology, I knew I wanted to study biological psychology
because I was always very interested in you know, biology, chemistry, physics, math.
(03:13):
And then in the months before I started going to college,
I was broken up with by my then high school boyfriend.
So I was very heartbroken for several months. And then
I fell in love with someone else, and so then
I was head over heels in a few weeks before
I started going to college, and so I just was thinking,
what's happening? Why am I so so sad and then
so happy? What's happening in my brain? Um? And then
(03:35):
whenever I had to write a paper for any course
in my psychology degree, I was always trying to see, like,
can I make this somehow about romantic love? So then
I would write the paper for the class. And that's
how I found out that there was not a whole
lot of research available on the neural basis of romantic love.
And so that's when eventually I thought, you know, maybe
then I should go do that research. And so here
(03:58):
we are. So I study how how romantic love affects cognition,
so how it affects the way we think, how it
affects our attention and our memory, and and I also
study how cognition affects our love feelings. So if we
can change how in love we are by thinking certain things,
can we change how we feel by thinking certain things?
Can we change how we feel with our thoughts? Yes?
(04:19):
I didn't, that was yep. So well, there's actually a
large literature about emotion regulation um which shows that you
can think certain things and that changes how you feel.
You can make your emotions more or less intense. And
I've applied that same idea to love. And while I've
shown that people think it is very difficult, or maybe
even impossible or even undesirable to change how in love
(04:41):
you are. People can actually do it in the lab,
so they can make themselves slightly more in love or
slightly less in love by thinking certain things. Wow. And
so there's also a lot of different hormones and a
lot of different neuro transmitters that are involved and not
there's not a single love hormone or single love neuro transmitter.
I have also shown that people have better attention and
(05:03):
better memory for information it has to do with their beloved,
which makes sense because information has to do with your
beloved becomes very emotional to you, right. Um. And then
I'm also doing research on how being in love distracts
you from doing other stuff. So if you're thinking about
your beloved all the time, are you then maybe not
paying enough attention to your work or your homework? Wow?
(05:25):
So how do you study that? What is the process
of doing that research? Because I imagine you need to
have some people and also their feelings. Yes, so it varies,
It varies a little bit between studies. But we typically
recruit people that are in love by self report. Um.
We often would like to study people that have recently
fallen in love because that's the time when infatuation or
(05:47):
passionate love is most intense. Uh. Intends to decrease over time,
you know, butterflies go away eventually. UM. So we we
ideally test people within the first six months. UM. That's
sometimes difficult to get enough people, so sometimes we stretch
it to like the first one and a half years
of falling in love. So what are some of the
questions and tasks of your research? What are you having
(06:09):
people do to explore this connection? Well, so, for example,
for the research that involves like does love distract you
from other stuff? We use stroop like tasks. And I
think people may have actually already heard about the stroop task.
So the stroop task is a task in which you
present words like yellow and red and green, and you
(06:31):
print them in a certain color. And if the word
says green and the ink is green, then people can
easily say the ink color is green. That's very easy.
But if you present the word yellow in green ink,
then people find it really difficult to say this is
green ink because they're more inclined to read the word
and say yellow. And so this is a task that
(06:53):
requires a lot of what we call cognitive control. It's
a very difficult task. Your initial sort of automatic response
to read the word, but we're asking you to say
the ink color. And so we have used tasks like
that to see how love influences cognitive control. How do
you bring the love into the question, like do you
(07:13):
have pictures of their their person or do you have
like a scent like how do you how do you
incorporate the idea of their love emotions into this experiment? Yeah,
So in one study we had a love induction task,
so we had them right about romantic encounter. We had
them listened to a love related song that they picked.
(07:35):
They picked, they brought it with them to the lab
um so to get them sort of in this romantic mood.
So these were people that were in love. But when
we then we sort of induced the romantic mood before
they didn't task. But then in another study, we just
recruited people that were in love and then just made
them do the task. So what were some of the results. Yes,
in one study, we found the higher people scored on
(07:56):
a love questionnaire, So the more in love people were,
the worst they did on that stroop task. So the
longer it took them to read the to say the
ink color because they were so distracted by the word meaning.
So the emotions that they sort of carry with them
distract them from very intense cognitive tasks. Yeah, and the
(08:21):
idea is, although we we couldn't really test that, but
the idea is that because in other research, I've shown
that people on average report to think about their beloved.
I think it was at a time, with the most
extreme score being at the time, So people are thinking
about their beloved almost the entire time that they're awake.
(08:41):
And you know that takes up a lot of cognitive
energy and cognitive effort. And so the idea is that
if you're thinking about your beloved all the time, you
have less resources left to do the task that we're
asking you to do. Yeah. Absolutely, What have you learned
from your research in your own life? Is that if
that's a fair question to ask you as a researcher. Yeah, Well,
so this is interesting because sometimes people opposed to the
(09:03):
idea of studying love because they say, you know, it's
such a magical thing, and if we're going to study
it and understand it, then that takes away from the magic,
which I can tell you it doesn't. So I can
still be very much in love or very heartbroken. Even
though I have a although only a slight understanding of
how it works, but you know, it does put it
in perspective. So, um, you know, I can use some
(09:26):
of the love regulations strategies that I have tested in
my research and that have found to be effective for
becoming more in love or less in love. So I
can have definitely tried to apply that to my day
to life as well. What are some of the love
regulation strategies that sounds fascinating? Yeah, So one thing that
works for increasing love feelings is thinking about the positive
(09:47):
aspect of your beloved or the relationship or the future.
So if you think about you know, they are so funny,
or they're so handsome, or they're so smart, or you know,
our relationship, we're so good together, we have the same
hobbies or the same values, and then thinking about positive
future scenario so we may get married and live happily
ever after, then that will increase love feelings for for
(10:11):
your beloved. Now, on the flip side, thinking negatively about
your beloved or their relationship or the future decreases love feelings. So,
you know, thinking they're so lazy or you know they
never bring me flowers or or the relationship like we
fight a lot, or you know, we may get married,
but then we'll probably get a divorced like so many people.
That decreases love feelings, and that I thought would be
(10:34):
helpful for people who are heartbroken. Um, so I was testing,
you know, people that were upset about a breakup, and
does that make them feel better? And yes, it decreases
love feelings, but it made them feel worse, which is
not what I expected. But I found that in two
different studies. The first time, I was like, oh, maybe
that was a fluke. And then I did it again
again and I found it again. I was like, no,
this is really happening. I can make them feel slightly
(10:57):
less in love, but now I also made them feel
worse instead of better. But then I also found that
another strategy called distraction, so thinking about things completely unrelated
to your beloved made them feel better. So that did
not change how in love they were, but it made
them feel less unpleasant. So what you're saying with this
research is that if you've gone through a breakup and
you start thinking about all the negative things about your ex,
(11:20):
you will decrease your feelings of love. But you will
also feel pretty crappy. Is that that partly because you've realized, oh,
I've spent time with a crappy person or is it?
Is it just recognizing human fallibility? Like do you do
you know the connection there? I don't, But what I
think what you're saying is is probably part the right.
So you know, if if I now ask you all
(11:41):
the things why your X was terrible, you may think
why was that even with that person? And what does
it say about me? So that's one option. Another option
is that maybe you know they're just unpleasant thoughts. You're
thinking about all these unpleasant memories and so that may
just make you feel unpleasant. Um, but I think it
in the long term, I think it may be helpful
to cope with the breakup, to sort of get over
(12:01):
it quicker. So what I think people should probably do
is think negatively about their ex and then go distract
themselves to feel better. So think all of the things
that are terrible and then think about things that are
pleasant completely unrelated to their acts exactly. Yeah, go do
something fun and think about other stuff to then feel Okay,
brains are so cool mm hmm. Yeah. So what is
(12:24):
the hope for this research. What can you do with
it moving forward? What can you do with in the future,
because I have this vision of an app to help
you get over a really bad breakup, right, Yeah, that's
a great question. So my research is what what's called
fundamental research, and that means it's driven by curiosity. And
then there's another form of research that's called applied research,
in which you create new products, you know, better batteries
(12:46):
for example, or you design treatments, developed treatments for certain disorders,
which and you know, it's very obvious to see the
usefulness of applied research. Um, it's harder for people to
see the usefulness of fundamental research. But fundamental research, you
can do applied research until you've done the fundamental research first.
So I hope that someone else will take my findings
and will actually try to you know, develop it into
(13:09):
you know, what can you do in therapy too, do
you know, help people get over a breakup or help
people be less distracted when they are in love. So ultimately,
I hope that my research contributes to increasing the positive
effects of love and decreasing the negative effects of love.
And then distraction is probably a negative effect, even though
people themselves may not may not care, but there you know,
(13:33):
teammates or their employer may be annoyed if you are
so in love that you're not focusing on your your
homework or your work. But also, you know, breakups, it
can really benefit people with I think if they have
a way to cope with them. So it sounds like
not only is their application potentially for people who have
been through a bad breakup to learn how to sort
(13:53):
of redirect their their cognitive impulses with distraction, but it
also it also unds like it would be helpful to
people who are in a relationship to think about the
person that they love in a positive way to sort
of um create a sort of a buoyancy for their
emotions to continue. Yeah, because we know love feelings decline
(14:15):
over time, and a lot of breakups are caused by
that decrease of law filing. So people will say, you know,
we're not fighting, no one cheated on anyone, but you
know we're like brother and specie right exactly. And and
in that situation, yes, increasing law feelings may may really
help and may help people to stay together. I mean,
I've been married for almost twenty two years and I
(14:37):
know for myself with my husband, the strength of the
feelings can flex a little bit. Sometimes they're very intense
and sometimes you know, it's the only thing I can
think about is how awesome he is. And sometimes I'm like, yeah,
he's there and it's great. That's good. Gonna go doom
a job now. So that's sort of leveling up and down.
That's that's normal. Yeah, so that's perfectly normal for it
to to go up and down, but it's it can
(14:59):
help be But I think if they feel some control
over their love feelings, if they feel like it's not
you know, just happening to them, but they can tweak
them a little bit. You know, the strategies I use
in my research. They're not on and off switches. So
it's not like you think this one thing and now
it's your law feelings are on or off. But it's
something you can sort of slightly modulate your love intensity.
(15:20):
This has been so fascinating. I my my brain is
so happy right now. Thank you so much for speaking
with us. This has been so interesting, so interesting. As
we as we wrap up, what advice would you have
for someone who is feeling a little overwhelmed by their
their love emotions. Well, so, I guess you know, because
my research has also shown that people think other people
(15:41):
can regulate their law feelings, but they themselves came, so
everybody else so right, right exactly? So if anything, you
know you are not a playball of your love feelings
specifically or emotions in general. You have some control over it.
And again it's not an honor offs, but you have
some control so you don't have to just all let
(16:03):
it happen. Thank you so much for taking the time
to talk to us about your research. This is absolutely fascinating.
I really really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Yeah,
it was a pleasure. Thanks for your interest in my work.
Is there anywhere people can go to read more about
what you're doing? Yeah? So. So. My lab is called
the Neurocognition of Emotion and Motivation Lab or an e
(16:24):
M lab at the University of Missouri St. Louis. So
if you google an e M lab, you'll find my
website and you can take it from there. Thank you
so much for your time. This has been absolutely fascinating. Great.
Thank you so Alicia. Now that we have learned what
amazing powerhouses are brains are, which I mean, you write
(16:45):
great books. I already knew this about your brain. What
is your love to go for today? But one thing
that really struck out to me was when you feel
attachment for someone, you are less likely Our brains are
less likely to low down after we make an error
because you feel secure, and you feel comfortable, and you
feel like, okay, I can make errors without getting into
(17:07):
too much trouble. Yes, which I think is wonderful and lovely.
But I also think that just because we're comfortable and
attached to somebody, we know they're not going anywhere. I
think it's still important to keep those things in mind,
you know, like if you if you fumble a little
bit with them, forget a birth, they or something, you're
just like whatever, no big deal. You know, you're not
(17:29):
slowing down and stopping. I think it's I think it's
good to always sort of keep that initial infatuation and
that initial like spark still in there, so so you're
just as consider it even if you're not slowing down
as much. I agree, you know who else is considerate
and not at all silly? Who the people who have
(17:49):
left really lovely reviews for our podcast? I have two
to share with you. These are brilliant people and we
respect their brains. Yeah, we do procrastinate with reading. Hello.
Oh yes, this is a thing I do. They wrote,
this is my new favorite podcast for when I'm getting
ready for bed, positive kind, shorter episodes, fun hosts. It's
(18:11):
a great thing to have in your head at the
end of the day. Thank you. That's so nice. I'm
honored to help you go to sleep at night. I mean,
believe me, I am the bedtime commander. I take bedtime
very seriously. So it is an honor to be in
your ears while you fall asleep, and not in a
creepy not in a creepy way, now, in a very
generous sort of you know, calming sleepcast kind of way. Yeah.
(18:34):
I like that, And I have another one to share
with you. Object two four six eight wrote amid and
often grim and anxiety inducing news cycle, this podcast has
become a daily affirmation, as the butter voiced hosts gently
reassured listeners that love exists and is a force for
(18:56):
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I must say, the first time you showed me this,
I thought it said butter faced, and I was very confused.
Butter voiced is excellent us and excellent. We are your
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(19:17):
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(19:39):
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This is an my Heart radio podcast and we wish
you a very happy ever after and maybe some good
(19:59):
distractions all the way. I'm in love with Abi Eiba
that a lod say to you. E've good to see
you should love. I'm in love with you. I'm in
(20:19):
love with you.
Crazy, silly love. Why is it that falling in love
makes us so ridiculous, especially in areas where we usually
think we're so smart, and we're not just talking metaphorically,
We're talking our literal brain chemistry deteriorating when we fall
in love. I'm Sarah Wendell, I'm Alicia or I Welcome
to Love Struck Daily, where we bring a love story
(00:22):
to your years every single day. I'm in love with
the love with you, Alicia. Has falling in love affected
(00:42):
your brain? Yeah? Now I have been through falling in
love brain and I've been through pregnancy brain, and I
can tell you there are some similarities. And I think
like pandemic brain is also in there somewhere. Yeah, pognitive
exhaustion brain is definitely a thing. Like I was talking
to my editor the other day and I said, I
(01:02):
don't know why I can't get this like one part
of my book to work with a big kind of
conflict part basically the book. I can't get the book
to work. And she goes, well, it's probably because you're
in love, and we both kind of laughed. But now
I think it's real. I think it's because I'm I
think it's because I'm happy and I'm in love, and
I can't write any kind of conflict anymore at the moment,
(01:23):
because you know, I just want to like write rainbows
and puppies. One thing I've noticed is when one of
my children has had a crush and their experience having
a crush for the first time. A crush can make
you so silly and like incapable of doing like regular
things that you normally do, utterly filled to the broom
(01:46):
with big emotions and emotions. I mean, people sort of
have this expectation that when you're an adult, you have
control over your feelings all the time. No, no, no, no no, no, no,
I think I have less control. Yeah, but I am
fascinating did by the idea of what your brain does
and the idea of your brain and love. Which is
cool because today we are going to be chatting with
(02:09):
a literal expert on what your brain is doing when
your brain is in love. Dr Sandra langes La is
one of the researchers on a famous study about why
we temporarily can't talk, or we say things we don't mean,
and a whole host of other silly, silly things when
we are falling in love. Dr lanes Law is a
(02:29):
neurocognitive expert who specializes in how infatuation affects our brains.
Please welcome Dr Sandra Longest Law. Welcome, Dr Longest. La
is so nice to talk to you. I am so
excited to hear about your research. Can you tell me
about what you're studying? Yea, so thanks so much for
(02:51):
having me. I'm very excited to beyond the show. I
study the neurocognition of emotion and motivation in general and
of romantic love and particular. What led you into this field?
What led you into this research? Already before I started
studying psychology, I knew I wanted to study biological psychology
because I was always very interested in you know, biology, chemistry, physics, math.
(03:13):
And then in the months before I started going to college,
I was broken up with by my then high school boyfriend.
So I was very heartbroken for several months. And then
I fell in love with someone else, and so then
I was head over heels in a few weeks before
I started going to college, and so I just was thinking,
what's happening? Why am I so so sad and then
so happy? What's happening in my brain? Um? And then
(03:35):
whenever I had to write a paper for any course
in my psychology degree, I was always trying to see, like,
can I make this somehow about romantic love? So then
I would write the paper for the class. And that's
how I found out that there was not a whole
lot of research available on the neural basis of romantic love.
And so that's when eventually I thought, you know, maybe
then I should go do that research. And so here
(03:58):
we are. So I study how how romantic love affects cognition,
so how it affects the way we think, how it
affects our attention and our memory, and and I also
study how cognition affects our love feelings. So if we
can change how in love we are by thinking certain things,
can we change how we feel by thinking certain things?
Can we change how we feel with our thoughts? Yes?
(04:19):
I didn't, that was yep. So well, there's actually a
large literature about emotion regulation um which shows that you
can think certain things and that changes how you feel.
You can make your emotions more or less intense. And
I've applied that same idea to love. And while I've
shown that people think it is very difficult, or maybe
even impossible or even undesirable to change how in love
(04:41):
you are. People can actually do it in the lab,
so they can make themselves slightly more in love or
slightly less in love by thinking certain things. Wow. And
so there's also a lot of different hormones and a
lot of different neuro transmitters that are involved and not
there's not a single love hormone or single love neuro transmitter.
I have also shown that people have better attention and
(05:03):
better memory for information it has to do with their beloved,
which makes sense because information has to do with your
beloved becomes very emotional to you, right. Um. And then
I'm also doing research on how being in love distracts
you from doing other stuff. So if you're thinking about
your beloved all the time, are you then maybe not
paying enough attention to your work or your homework? Wow?
(05:25):
So how do you study that? What is the process
of doing that research? Because I imagine you need to
have some people and also their feelings. Yes, so it varies,
It varies a little bit between studies. But we typically
recruit people that are in love by self report. Um.
We often would like to study people that have recently
fallen in love because that's the time when infatuation or
(05:47):
passionate love is most intense. Uh. Intends to decrease over time,
you know, butterflies go away eventually. UM. So we we
ideally test people within the first six months. UM. That's
sometimes difficult to get enough people, so sometimes we stretch
it to like the first one and a half years
of falling in love. So what are some of the
questions and tasks of your research? What are you having
(06:09):
people do to explore this connection? Well, so, for example,
for the research that involves like does love distract you
from other stuff? We use stroop like tasks. And I
think people may have actually already heard about the stroop task.
So the stroop task is a task in which you
present words like yellow and red and green, and you
(06:31):
print them in a certain color. And if the word
says green and the ink is green, then people can
easily say the ink color is green. That's very easy.
But if you present the word yellow in green ink,
then people find it really difficult to say this is
green ink because they're more inclined to read the word
and say yellow. And so this is a task that
(06:53):
requires a lot of what we call cognitive control. It's
a very difficult task. Your initial sort of automatic response
to read the word, but we're asking you to say
the ink color. And so we have used tasks like
that to see how love influences cognitive control. How do
you bring the love into the question, like do you
(07:13):
have pictures of their their person or do you have
like a scent like how do you how do you
incorporate the idea of their love emotions into this experiment? Yeah,
So in one study we had a love induction task,
so we had them right about romantic encounter. We had
them listened to a love related song that they picked.
(07:35):
They picked, they brought it with them to the lab
um so to get them sort of in this romantic mood.
So these were people that were in love. But when
we then we sort of induced the romantic mood before
they didn't task. But then in another study, we just
recruited people that were in love and then just made
them do the task. So what were some of the results. Yes,
in one study, we found the higher people scored on
(07:56):
a love questionnaire, So the more in love people were,
the worst they did on that stroop task. So the
longer it took them to read the to say the
ink color because they were so distracted by the word meaning.
So the emotions that they sort of carry with them
distract them from very intense cognitive tasks. Yeah, and the
(08:21):
idea is, although we we couldn't really test that, but
the idea is that because in other research, I've shown
that people on average report to think about their beloved.
I think it was at a time, with the most
extreme score being at the time, So people are thinking
about their beloved almost the entire time that they're awake.
(08:41):
And you know that takes up a lot of cognitive
energy and cognitive effort. And so the idea is that
if you're thinking about your beloved all the time, you
have less resources left to do the task that we're
asking you to do. Yeah. Absolutely, What have you learned
from your research in your own life? Is that if
that's a fair question to ask you as a researcher. Yeah, Well,
so this is interesting because sometimes people opposed to the
(09:03):
idea of studying love because they say, you know, it's
such a magical thing, and if we're going to study
it and understand it, then that takes away from the magic,
which I can tell you it doesn't. So I can
still be very much in love or very heartbroken. Even
though I have a although only a slight understanding of
how it works, but you know, it does put it
in perspective. So, um, you know, I can use some
(09:26):
of the love regulations strategies that I have tested in
my research and that have found to be effective for
becoming more in love or less in love. So I
can have definitely tried to apply that to my day
to life as well. What are some of the love
regulation strategies that sounds fascinating? Yeah, So one thing that
works for increasing love feelings is thinking about the positive
(09:47):
aspect of your beloved or the relationship or the future.
So if you think about you know, they are so funny,
or they're so handsome, or they're so smart, or you know,
our relationship, we're so good together, we have the same
hobbies or the same values, and then thinking about positive
future scenario so we may get married and live happily
ever after, then that will increase love feelings for for
(10:11):
your beloved. Now, on the flip side, thinking negatively about
your beloved or their relationship or the future decreases love feelings. So,
you know, thinking they're so lazy or you know they
never bring me flowers or or the relationship like we
fight a lot, or you know, we may get married,
but then we'll probably get a divorced like so many people.
That decreases love feelings, and that I thought would be
(10:34):
helpful for people who are heartbroken. Um, so I was testing,
you know, people that were upset about a breakup, and
does that make them feel better? And yes, it decreases
love feelings, but it made them feel worse, which is
not what I expected. But I found that in two
different studies. The first time, I was like, oh, maybe
that was a fluke. And then I did it again
again and I found it again. I was like, no,
this is really happening. I can make them feel slightly
(10:57):
less in love, but now I also made them feel
worse instead of better. But then I also found that
another strategy called distraction, so thinking about things completely unrelated
to your beloved made them feel better. So that did
not change how in love they were, but it made
them feel less unpleasant. So what you're saying with this
research is that if you've gone through a breakup and
you start thinking about all the negative things about your ex,
(11:20):
you will decrease your feelings of love. But you will
also feel pretty crappy. Is that that partly because you've realized, oh,
I've spent time with a crappy person or is it?
Is it just recognizing human fallibility? Like do you do
you know the connection there? I don't, But what I
think what you're saying is is probably part the right.
So you know, if if I now ask you all
(11:41):
the things why your X was terrible, you may think
why was that even with that person? And what does
it say about me? So that's one option. Another option
is that maybe you know they're just unpleasant thoughts. You're
thinking about all these unpleasant memories and so that may
just make you feel unpleasant. Um, but I think it
in the long term, I think it may be helpful
to cope with the breakup, to sort of get over
(12:01):
it quicker. So what I think people should probably do
is think negatively about their ex and then go distract
themselves to feel better. So think all of the things
that are terrible and then think about things that are
pleasant completely unrelated to their acts exactly. Yeah, go do
something fun and think about other stuff to then feel Okay,
brains are so cool mm hmm. Yeah. So what is
(12:24):
the hope for this research. What can you do with
it moving forward? What can you do with in the future,
because I have this vision of an app to help
you get over a really bad breakup, right, Yeah, that's
a great question. So my research is what what's called
fundamental research, and that means it's driven by curiosity. And
then there's another form of research that's called applied research,
in which you create new products, you know, better batteries
(12:46):
for example, or you design treatments, developed treatments for certain disorders,
which and you know, it's very obvious to see the
usefulness of applied research. Um, it's harder for people to
see the usefulness of fundamental research. But fundamental research, you
can do applied research until you've done the fundamental research first.
So I hope that someone else will take my findings
and will actually try to you know, develop it into
(13:09):
you know, what can you do in therapy too, do
you know, help people get over a breakup or help
people be less distracted when they are in love. So ultimately,
I hope that my research contributes to increasing the positive
effects of love and decreasing the negative effects of love.
And then distraction is probably a negative effect, even though
people themselves may not may not care, but there you know,
(13:33):
teammates or their employer may be annoyed if you are
so in love that you're not focusing on your your
homework or your work. But also, you know, breakups, it
can really benefit people with I think if they have
a way to cope with them. So it sounds like
not only is their application potentially for people who have
been through a bad breakup to learn how to sort
(13:53):
of redirect their their cognitive impulses with distraction, but it
also it also unds like it would be helpful to
people who are in a relationship to think about the
person that they love in a positive way to sort
of um create a sort of a buoyancy for their
emotions to continue. Yeah, because we know love feelings decline
(14:15):
over time, and a lot of breakups are caused by
that decrease of law filing. So people will say, you know,
we're not fighting, no one cheated on anyone, but you
know we're like brother and specie right exactly. And and
in that situation, yes, increasing law feelings may may really
help and may help people to stay together. I mean,
I've been married for almost twenty two years and I
(14:37):
know for myself with my husband, the strength of the
feelings can flex a little bit. Sometimes they're very intense
and sometimes you know, it's the only thing I can
think about is how awesome he is. And sometimes I'm like, yeah,
he's there and it's great. That's good. Gonna go doom
a job now. So that's sort of leveling up and down.
That's that's normal. Yeah, so that's perfectly normal for it
to to go up and down, but it's it can
(14:59):
help be But I think if they feel some control
over their love feelings, if they feel like it's not
you know, just happening to them, but they can tweak
them a little bit. You know, the strategies I use
in my research. They're not on and off switches. So
it's not like you think this one thing and now
it's your law feelings are on or off. But it's
something you can sort of slightly modulate your love intensity.
(15:20):
This has been so fascinating. I my my brain is
so happy right now. Thank you so much for speaking
with us. This has been so interesting, so interesting. As
we as we wrap up, what advice would you have
for someone who is feeling a little overwhelmed by their
their love emotions. Well, so, I guess you know, because
my research has also shown that people think other people
(15:41):
can regulate their law feelings, but they themselves came, so
everybody else so right, right exactly? So if anything, you
know you are not a playball of your love feelings
specifically or emotions in general. You have some control over it.
And again it's not an honor offs, but you have
some control so you don't have to just all let
(16:03):
it happen. Thank you so much for taking the time
to talk to us about your research. This is absolutely fascinating.
I really really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Yeah,
it was a pleasure. Thanks for your interest in my work.
Is there anywhere people can go to read more about
what you're doing? Yeah? So. So. My lab is called
the Neurocognition of Emotion and Motivation Lab or an e
(16:24):
M lab at the University of Missouri St. Louis. So
if you google an e M lab, you'll find my
website and you can take it from there. Thank you
so much for your time. This has been absolutely fascinating. Great.
Thank you so Alicia. Now that we have learned what
amazing powerhouses are brains are, which I mean, you write
(16:45):
great books. I already knew this about your brain. What
is your love to go for today? But one thing
that really struck out to me was when you feel
attachment for someone, you are less likely Our brains are
less likely to low down after we make an error
because you feel secure, and you feel comfortable, and you
feel like, okay, I can make errors without getting into
(17:07):
too much trouble. Yes, which I think is wonderful and lovely.
But I also think that just because we're comfortable and
attached to somebody, we know they're not going anywhere. I
think it's still important to keep those things in mind,
you know, like if you if you fumble a little
bit with them, forget a birth, they or something, you're
just like whatever, no big deal. You know, you're not
(17:29):
slowing down and stopping. I think it's I think it's
good to always sort of keep that initial infatuation and
that initial like spark still in there, so so you're
just as consider it even if you're not slowing down
as much. I agree, you know who else is considerate
and not at all silly? Who the people who have
(17:49):
left really lovely reviews for our podcast? I have two
to share with you. These are brilliant people and we
respect their brains. Yeah, we do procrastinate with reading. Hello.
Oh yes, this is a thing I do. They wrote,
this is my new favorite podcast for when I'm getting
ready for bed, positive kind, shorter episodes, fun hosts. It's
(18:11):
a great thing to have in your head at the
end of the day. Thank you. That's so nice. I'm
honored to help you go to sleep at night. I mean,
believe me, I am the bedtime commander. I take bedtime
very seriously. So it is an honor to be in
your ears while you fall asleep, and not in a
creepy not in a creepy way, now, in a very
generous sort of you know, calming sleepcast kind of way. Yeah.
(18:34):
I like that, And I have another one to share
with you. Object two four six eight wrote amid and
often grim and anxiety inducing news cycle, this podcast has
become a daily affirmation, as the butter voiced hosts gently
reassured listeners that love exists and is a force for
(18:56):
good in this messed up world. That's so sweet. And
I must say, the first time you showed me this,
I thought it said butter faced, and I was very confused.
Butter voiced is excellent us and excellent. We are your
love and a SMR hosts. Yeah please, I love that.
And if you have any reviews that you would like
(19:17):
to leave for us, we would very much appreciate it.
It's the easiest way to support our show and spread
the word. Also, you can send us an email directly
to us at love Struck Daily at frolic up media
if you have a love story to share. If you
want to give us your reviews real time, please follow
us on Instagram or Twitter at love struck Daily for
(19:39):
extra content absolutely. Our researcher is Jesse Epstein. Our editor
is Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail Steckler and
Little Scorpion Studios and Jillian Davis with executive producer Frolic Media.
This is an my Heart radio podcast and we wish
you a very happy ever after and maybe some good
(19:59):
distractions all the way. I'm in love with Abi Eiba
that a lod say to you. E've good to see
you should love. I'm in love with you. I'm in
(20:19):
love with you.
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