November 11, 2021 • 24 mins
Krikey is an augmented reality gaming company bringing users virtual experiences with exotic animals like gorillas, birds of all species, lions and sharks. The games are beautifully designed and programmed with cutting edge technology — but the goal of the company is to bring you so much more. We revisit this episode with Jhanvi and Ketaki Shriram, sisters and Krikey co-founders. Hear their story about starting an AR gaming company and their mission to inspire users to have empathy and appreciation for animals and the environment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to made by Women by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio. At a moment when businesses
face some of the biggest challenges in recent history, we
bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and shared learnings to
help you successfully navigate in today's environment. Hi. I'm Kim Azzarelli,
(00:27):
and thanks so much for joining us today. Imagine looking
at your phone screen and seeing silver baccillas, lions, and
birds of all species come to life right in front
of you. Thanks to Craikey and augmented reality gaming company,
these virtual experiences are now possible, and not only are
these games fun, they can literally change the world. Craig
(00:51):
was founded by sisters John Vi and Kateaki shri Ram,
who shared a passion for the environment and a desire
to create a company that would inspire real, old change.
And it turns out that their mission isn't just a
nice idea, it's a success. Crikey has launched more than
thirty a r games and objects, landed a project with
Sony Pictures for the film Goose Bumps, and even partnered
(01:13):
with Ellen DeGeneres on the Ellen Fund, creating a beautiful
game called Gorillas, which lets you track and experienced guerrillas
in Rwanda. Today we'll hear how the sisters created an
are gaming company and how they used some of the
most exciting technology around to inspire users to care more
about animals and environmental conservation. Enjoy our conversation. Welcome to
(01:43):
Made by Women, and thank you so much for joining
me today. Thank you for having us, Thank you so
much for having us. So let me begin by asking
what is crikey and when did you start the company? So,
Craike is a mobile augmented reality gaming app on We're
live on the Google Play Store and the Apple App Store,
and we started the company right after we both graduated
(02:04):
from our master's programs and we were working on it
for about a year and then launched it on the
iOS and Android in the fall of in a partnership
with Sony Pictures for the film Goose Bumps. So we
did a series of augmented reality games featuring characters from
the film, and that was really our first big step
into this world of a r and it's been an
(02:24):
extremely fun journey so far working with my sister, and
we've built and published several different augmented reality games over
the last couple of years before we get into the
incredible business that you are in and also the unbelievable
games that you've built. I'm gonna take you back. So
you just mentioned that not only are you business partners,
but your sisters. Where did you grow up? So we
(02:46):
grew up in the Bay Area near about an hour
south of San Francisco, UM, and we went public schools here.
We ended up both going to Stanford as undergrads, and
we're about three years apart. So I was the uncool
senior when she was a freshman. And then we kind
of went our separate ways for a few years, doing
different masters programs and working. Uh, and we somehow and
(03:10):
it back up at Stanford. She was doing her PhD.
And I was finishing up my m b a. And
our graduation years ended up being the same year. And
so we decided, as we were talking that year in
our in our apartments, like, Hey, why don't we try
doing something together. This is the best time to do it,
right after school. UM, let's take this risk now and
let's try it together. Wow, that's fantastic. Now, did you
(03:32):
always think you would be entrepreneurs or was this something
that you kind of grew into. I think we never
really planned on doing this exact thing, though we certainly
knew that we wanted to work together. While we were
both in grad school, we did produce a film together,
which was a great experience for us and very similar
to building an app. We had to build a team,
(03:54):
figure out the vision for the film, how to get
it distributed, and so there were a lot of similar
question ends with that project, and so I think we
realized after that, you know, hey, we really enjoyed this process,
it was successful. Could we try this again? And we
didn't know what again would mean. Would that mean another film,
would that mean an app like we're doing now, But
we always knew we wanted to work together in some way.
(04:16):
So when did you actually start and how did you
know that you wanted to get into gaming. When we
first started the Crikey app, it was actually just augmented reality.
Animals were very interested in conservation, and we wanted to
give people the opportunity to experience a mant array or
a lion just directly in their living room. And we
tried just one single player game. It was a very
(04:37):
simple game with simple mechanics, and it had huge engagement
with our users, and we really felt that there was
an opportunity to try to blend these two interests of
bringing positivity into people's lives and then also engaging people
via games, and that kind of led to the two
titles we currently have a Wingspan and Guerrillas, which are
both amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about those, Yeah,
(05:00):
absolutely so. Guerrillas was made in partnership with the Ellen
Degenerous Wildlife Foundation on Ellen and her wife Porsche started
this foundation in Rwanda to protect the mountain gorillas and
support research and um conservation of these amazing animals, and
so we reached out to them and asked if there
was a way we could work with them on bringing
Rwanda to all of Ellen's fans through augmented reality, and
(05:22):
so we built this are Gorilla Trek experience where her
fans can come in and as they walk around their neighborhood,
they can unlock different a R Guerrilla experiences at every
street corner in their neighborhood. So that's one of the
games that's in our app today and the other one
is called Wingspan, and it's based off a best selling
board game built by Stonemier Games. And in the game,
you are an ornithologist or a bird scientists seeking to
(05:45):
protect and collect birds in different ecosystems UM. So very
similar to the board game. We have these different bird
species and you can find them as you walk around
the map. So very similar to actual birding, but we
call it Digital Birding UM. And so that's the game
that we've been working on, and we have recently published
it at the end of last year and have been
partnering with the National Audubon Society to promote that game.
(06:08):
That's amazing. The fact that you were able to combine
your passion for conservation and these concepts with a r
is pretty incredible, and that you're bringing it to everybody
else is such a gift to the world. And I
know it can't be easy. So I'm going to take
you back a little further into your business. What were
the first steps in launching Crikey? Yeah? I think the
first step, which I'm sure many folks listening to this
(06:30):
are wondering, is why is it called crikey? Uh So
Kittick and I when we were just having these conversations
about starting a business together, like what is the business?
What should it be called? And we finally landed on
an idea, and we were so excited we decided to
start filing our incorporation documents right away. UM. But we
got stopped at the part where we needed to pick
a name. And we happen to be traveling through Australia
(06:51):
at the time, and the word crikey is often used there.
It's slang word that's an expression of excitement or awe,
and that's really the emotion we want people to feel
when they for experience augmented reality and the first experience
our app and so we chose the name Crikey at
that time. UM. And beyond that, in terms of you know,
how did we get started? I think the hardest thing
at the beginning was building a team and figure out
(07:13):
who's the first person that we need to hire and
what is the role that they need to play, and
how do you build a team from there. Um. We
didn't really have an office in the beginning, much like
now we don't have an office anymore. But I think
those were good learning experiences for us. We were um
about six months from graduating, so we were still in school,
balancing school and trying to figure out how to start
this business. Um, And so it was a definitely a
(07:35):
challenging time to figure out how to pull this together
and what to do first. But um, I was very
grateful to have my sister as my partner because we
were able to be very honestly communicate with each other
about what role each of us needed to play in
starting the business as well, and what was the toughest
part about starting it? I mean, starting an a our
company is not a small thought. What was the hardest part?
(07:56):
Was it funding? Was it the talent? I mean, obviously
you guys were both incredibly talented people, so you had
a big leg up there from a funding perspective. We
were really fortunate to have a seed investor who believed
in us and who was able to give us enough
to get started, so that got sorted out quite quickly.
I think the bigger challenge at the time when we
started was what a our tools were available. And I'll
(08:18):
let Kitticky, as our chief technology officer, dive into this
a little bit more. Um, but when we started the company,
there was no a R core, there was no air kit,
there wasn't an a R foundation from from Unity, and
so we were really trying to pull together resources that
she knew about through her PhD program, and I'll let
her speak to that. As Johnny mentioned, a lot of
those tools that have opened up a development to so
(08:40):
many new people and really democratized it were not available
when we started the company. They were in progress but
hadn't been released yet, and so we had to use
a lot of open source libraries to try to figure out,
how are we actually going to deliver this experience? Is
it even going to work on a phone? And we
had a very very small team at the time, and
so that was I think on the technolog g front,
one of the bigger challenges. Of course, as soon as
(09:02):
these tools did come out, we immediately switched over. You know,
we just knew that with a small team, it just
made sense to trust and rely on tools made by
these large companies with huge teams of developers and um
that really did help us improve the quality of the
experience as well. I think that's such a great lesson,
is you know, understanding what you can leverage that's out there,
(09:23):
especially in technology, it's just so quickly changing. So that's
really interesting. Absolutely, And I was gonna ask Kittickie to
speak to the other challenge which we faced was moving
from theory to practice, and so in her PhD program,
a lot of Kittikies research focused on how to immersive
experiences impact real world conservation behavior. That was really the
foundation of where we started in our theory of why
(09:45):
we wanted to start with augmented reality animals um to
bring this research into real life. And I'll let her
speak a bit more to what that research was and
what her early results were and what inspired us to
try and do this in augmented reality. When I was
at stand for my PhD, research was largely focused on
the impact of fully immersive environments, so in virtual reality,
(10:06):
and what we found across a wide range of experimentation
was that when people have immersive experiences, even very short ones,
so less than five minutes, they do feel positive impacts
from those experiences. They do take positive actions after those experiences,
whether that's embodying a piece of coral that gets acidified
and then wanting to learn more about ocean conservation, uh
(10:30):
to you know, embodying a cow that's been led to
the slaughterhouse and again maybe considering should I eat less
meat after having that experience. And I think for us,
we wanted to expose people to these types of ideas
and unique nature experiences, but in a more accessible way.
I think with virtual reality there's high intention involved, where
people either have to buy a headset or they have
(10:51):
to go to a place where there is a headset
readily available, and we felt with a ARE the bar
for accessibility was a lot lower for users. So anybody
who has a supported smartphone could just download an app
and immediately see something an augmented reality. And so that
was really the genesis of why we chose Mobile a
R was that we wanted to give as many people
as possible these great nature experiences, and then using some
(11:13):
of the theory that I mentioned, we wanted to see
could we actually get people to care more about these
conservation issues, whether that's guerrillas in Rwanda or bird conservation,
simply by having these customer experiences where suddenly you're in Rwanda,
you have a baby gorilla with you in your living room.
So you kind of started to leverage that other technology.
(11:34):
And I know, of course you're part of the Apple
E camp, which I've been part of as well. Did
that give you a sort of a big leg up
on what you were doing? And you had mentioned a
R kitten and all that. Yes, definitely the Apple E
Camp experience was UH an amazing time and really really
helpful for us. At the stage we were at, it
(11:54):
was less really about the augmented reality technology and more
about design and design thinking and approaching redesigning our app
from the perspective of the user, And so those sessions
that Apple's E Camp were really helpful for us to rethink, um,
how does the user approach or app? What is the
sentiment that they feel from screen to screen, and how
could we redesign our screens in a more user friendly manner? Um,
(12:17):
how do we think about an augmented reality tutorial? And
for us we talk about ground plane detection and vertical
plane detection, and those terms have meaning to us, but
for a user that's coming in off the app, so
they might not know what those are, and so using
words like that in a tutorial might not be the
best path forward. And so it was it was at
tutorial for your tutorial exactly, yes, which we learned at
(12:40):
the camp um and you know, there's no right answer
to UH user design questions, but it was really helpful
to talk to some of the designers at Apple and
rethink how we wanted to showcase our app within the app. Um.
And I don't know kid to keep you at other
thoughts from the camp, but to me, that was what
really stood out was user centered design thinking. Yeah. Absolutely.
(13:00):
Another point related to that was just having a preview
mode for our users where they can sort of try
before they sign up, and that has been hugely helpful
for us. And we spent a good part of the
camp sort of work shopping different designs for what is
a good preview mode, how should this flow look like?
And it was amazing to have the feedback really in
(13:21):
real time from people who work on these issues every
day at Apple. It was such a cool and unique experience.
And I think also meeting the other woman in our cohort,
you know, I think being a female entrepreneur often it's
easy to feel isolated or that there's not a lot
of others doing the same stuff as you. But going
to E camp, we saw there are so many people
with incredible business ideas who are really making a difference,
(13:43):
and just building those connections was very meaningful for us.
I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think having these
networks of women entrepreneurs and sharing stories, Um, it's just
so it's so motivating. And also it's just it's so critical, um,
because you know, obviously everybody basis setbacks in building businesses,
and I think learning from each other is really really important.
(14:07):
We'll be back with Seneca's Made by Women after this
short break. Are there any moments, um in founding your
company or in the past several years as you've been
building that really kind of made you sweat Any tough
moments where you thought, Wow, this is this is really tough.
(14:29):
We might not get through this. Yes. I think the
hardest thing is always people and building a good team.
And I'm sure every entrepreneur has faced this and having
a team member that didn't work out, um, and knowing
that that's not the end of the world. It's okay,
everyone will move forward, um. But in the moment, sometimes
it feels like can we move forward at all? Uh?
(14:52):
And you learn over time that people are different and
there's a lot to learn in each experience that you
have with the folks that you bring onto your team. UM.
And I think that's always been a challenge will continue
to be a challenge, is reading people, knowing how to
build a team, knowing how to build a team culture
for us team culture is really important. We have these
(15:12):
core values of kindness, honesty, trust, and respect and uh,
these are things that we bring up in first round
interviews with people and hope that uh, not only are
we looking for a technical skill set, but also a
that culture and value skill set of when people come
onto this team, are they going to be a team player,
Are they're going to work well with others? And UM,
I think finding good people is always the biggest challenge
(15:36):
for any company, large or small. So in those moments,
what gives you strength when you face those difficult moments
or have you found techniques to help yourself through it?
I think having each other really helps us, um get
through those moments and get through those tough conversations when
we have to have them. Uh. We're also a great
sounding board for each other when we are in interviews
(15:57):
and considering candidates. We all have biases that we face
and sometimes may not realize them in the moment, but
having someone as a partner who can honestly point them
out helps and I think that together we're able to
find good people and recognize our own biases in the process.
Is there any advice that you wish you had before
(16:18):
you had gotten started that you could share with others.
Just remember that it's, you know, a marathon, not a sprint,
And there's really no such thing as overnight success, you know.
I think oftentimes maybe it can seem like a company
launches and then instantly they have incredible success, but I
feel behind that there's always years and years of work.
(16:38):
And that's I think been a good lesson, at least
for me, is just knowing that we're in this for
the long haul, so we don't expect immediate huge rewards
or success. We're kind of building towards them over sustained
period of time. The other piece of advice I offers
to not give up. We've gone into countless meetings where
we've been made a proposal or pitched an idea, asked
(17:00):
for partnership or promotion opportunity uh and been turned down.
And if we walked out of those rooms saying okay,
well no one's going to give us a chance, we
wouldn't be still here today. I think trying and trying
and trying again, someone's going to say yes, and you
just have to keep going until you find that person.
Also amazing advice, So I want to just get a
(17:20):
little bit deeper into your business because it is such
a fascinating business and you are on the cusp of
so much um, So how does it actually work? What
is the business model? A great question. We are a
mobile app, and so in app purchases is a foundation
of what we do. We're currently really focused on just
continuing to grow our user base, and we do brand
(17:41):
partnerships on occasion for our games, where we build a
game commissioned by a brand partner. UM. And we are
working on figuring out are there other ad models that
we can introduce within the space of augmented reality? And
you've grown quite a lot. How many employees do you
have at this point? We have about team members now,
(18:01):
which is incredible, um and very exciting, wow, incredible. In
an interview, you said that you're a real believer in
using gaming for good. Can you explain this idea of
gaming for good? I think for us, it's very important
that every game title we release, While certainly it should
be entertaining and fun and you know, make people want
(18:23):
to come back every day, it should also sort of
imbue people with positive messages or ideas that they can
take back into the world. And we really feel that
we've done that with both Wingspan and Guerillas, where when
people have these experiences, they're not stressful, they're they're not
necessarily giving people negative thoughts. They're empowering them to see
(18:44):
the world around them in a new way. And I
think that's really what we mean, is that we want
our games to leave people feeling good um when they
go back into the world. I love that, and it's
so important right now. A lot of companies have had
to pivot their business model and operations due to the pandemic,
have had to pivot a lot in this moment, or
since your technology company where you're pretty agile, Yeah, we
(19:05):
did have to make a couple of changes to the app.
So we now have a teleport feature where you can
go to a location to interact with a bird or
a gorilla without even leaving your living room. That's such
an incredible innovation in this moment to be able to
be experiencing guerrillas and birds from your living room. So
I've definitely seen an uptick in UH downloads and players
(19:26):
coming in and game time, which is really exciting to see. UM.
And we've continued to adapt as we've gone and added
new features to each game responding to user feedback. People
are more vocal about their feedback now, so we've been
just taking it all in and trying to stay agile
and keep moving forward. How do you envision your business
moving forward as the world heals from covid nineteam Well
(19:49):
definitely returned to UH, using the map more and blending
a augmented reality and location based gaming. We had a
lot of really neat ideas that we wanted to put
into play of bringing people together in locations in the
outside world, which of course we want to be safe,
but I think there's a huge opportunity um for especially
small businesses on a map, to partner with apps like
(20:11):
this and bring people together in locations around the world.
And is there any advice you might have for other
entrepreneurs who are facing so much uncertainty in business right now?
Is there something you've heard or learned yourselves that you
could share with others who who are really struggling with
with what to do in these many, many new obstacles
(20:32):
that they're facing in this changing time. Definitely balance UH
for us, It's all it's very hard to be working
from home and living at home and not knowing where
does the work stop and where does it end, and
making sure that you take the time for self care
and unplug at the end of the day, I think
is what has helped us stay sane and be able
(20:53):
to keep our foot on the gas and keep moving.
Because it's really easy when you're living at home and
working at home to just be absorbed in the work
all the time. So I definitely would recommend taking time
for yourself so you you are really a story of
incredible success. Um. As you said earlier, it's not easy, uh,
(21:14):
for women entrepreneurs and women in tech in particular can
be a very isolating experience. Do you have any advice
as we think about where we're headed in the world
for young women in gaming or in tech who have
a great idea but might be afraid of taking the leap. Yeah,
I think it's important to just try with the resources
that you have and know that you can always make
(21:35):
changes to the product. You know, when we started the
app was so different from what it is today, and
you know, we just sort of went for it, and
we knew that what we had was far from perfect,
but you know, it was something. It was a starting
point and having a foundation to sort of continually iterate
on does eventually help you reach that level of success.
So that would be my advice is just, you know,
(21:57):
start with what you have and then go from there.
I think this idea of like not being afraid to
fail and to keep going is I think you said
earlier also just so critical. So I guess we're coming
to the close of our interview, but I want to
thank you so much and maybe just ask you one
last question. What is making you optimistic in this moment? Yeah,
I think there's a lot of new opportunities that have
(22:18):
come from the current situation. I think in the context
of gaming, thinking about how to games engage people positively? Uh,
what are what are ways that games can help people
during this unusual and challenging time and maybe beyond really
you know, seeing gaming as an opportunity for social connection,
for sharing positive ideas with others. I think it's it's
(22:40):
given us a lot to think about. Thank you so
much for joining us today on Made by Women and
we look forward to everything that CRIKE is going to
do in the future. Thank you so much. Thank you
so much for having us. I want to thank John
B and Ketticky for an inspiring conversation and for everything
they're doing to use crikey and are Gaming for Good.
(23:02):
A few things really stick out to me from this conversation. First,
it's important to think big and not limit your entrepreneurial vision,
but when starting a business, it's also crucial to understand
what's already out there that you can leverage in the
ever changing tech world. The sisters quickly learned they could
reach a larger audience and successfully deliver a product when
they refocus their gaming options for a mobile user. Second,
(23:25):
seek out opportunities to network and to learn from others,
as John b and Ketaki did at Apple's A camp.
Not only did this experience give them insight on app
design and are gaming experience, but they also have the
opportunity to network with other women entrepreneurs in tech. Sharing
stories successes as well as setbacks helps entrepreneurs succeed and
(23:45):
build a trusted professional network. Lastly, and my favorite takeaway,
there's always an opportunity to make a difference through your work.
As Ketaki learned during her PhD research, technology like virtual
and augmented reality inspire change in a user's real life.
The Crikey games are giving users the opportunity to experience
(24:06):
in dangerous species and the natural world in a way
that inspires empathy and appreciation. The success of John b
and Kadakis company is just further proof that when you
put purpose at the center of your strategy and your business,
you can succeed and make a real difference. To learn
more about crikey, go to krike dot com and you
could also find their app in the Apple App Store
(24:27):
or in Google Play. See You Next Week Made by
Women is brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner
PNG
Welcome to made by Women by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio. At a moment when businesses
face some of the biggest challenges in recent history, we
bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and shared learnings to
help you successfully navigate in today's environment. Hi. I'm Kim Azzarelli,
(00:27):
and thanks so much for joining us today. Imagine looking
at your phone screen and seeing silver baccillas, lions, and
birds of all species come to life right in front
of you. Thanks to Craikey and augmented reality gaming company,
these virtual experiences are now possible, and not only are
these games fun, they can literally change the world. Craig
(00:51):
was founded by sisters John Vi and Kateaki shri Ram,
who shared a passion for the environment and a desire
to create a company that would inspire real, old change.
And it turns out that their mission isn't just a
nice idea, it's a success. Crikey has launched more than
thirty a r games and objects, landed a project with
Sony Pictures for the film Goose Bumps, and even partnered
(01:13):
with Ellen DeGeneres on the Ellen Fund, creating a beautiful
game called Gorillas, which lets you track and experienced guerrillas
in Rwanda. Today we'll hear how the sisters created an
are gaming company and how they used some of the
most exciting technology around to inspire users to care more
about animals and environmental conservation. Enjoy our conversation. Welcome to
(01:43):
Made by Women, and thank you so much for joining
me today. Thank you for having us, Thank you so
much for having us. So let me begin by asking
what is crikey and when did you start the company? So,
Craike is a mobile augmented reality gaming app on We're
live on the Google Play Store and the Apple App Store,
and we started the company right after we both graduated
(02:04):
from our master's programs and we were working on it
for about a year and then launched it on the
iOS and Android in the fall of in a partnership
with Sony Pictures for the film Goose Bumps. So we
did a series of augmented reality games featuring characters from
the film, and that was really our first big step
into this world of a r and it's been an
(02:24):
extremely fun journey so far working with my sister, and
we've built and published several different augmented reality games over
the last couple of years before we get into the
incredible business that you are in and also the unbelievable
games that you've built. I'm gonna take you back. So
you just mentioned that not only are you business partners,
but your sisters. Where did you grow up? So we
(02:46):
grew up in the Bay Area near about an hour
south of San Francisco, UM, and we went public schools here.
We ended up both going to Stanford as undergrads, and
we're about three years apart. So I was the uncool
senior when she was a freshman. And then we kind
of went our separate ways for a few years, doing
different masters programs and working. Uh, and we somehow and
(03:10):
it back up at Stanford. She was doing her PhD.
And I was finishing up my m b a. And
our graduation years ended up being the same year. And
so we decided, as we were talking that year in
our in our apartments, like, Hey, why don't we try
doing something together. This is the best time to do it,
right after school. UM, let's take this risk now and
let's try it together. Wow, that's fantastic. Now, did you
(03:32):
always think you would be entrepreneurs or was this something
that you kind of grew into. I think we never
really planned on doing this exact thing, though we certainly
knew that we wanted to work together. While we were
both in grad school, we did produce a film together,
which was a great experience for us and very similar
to building an app. We had to build a team,
(03:54):
figure out the vision for the film, how to get
it distributed, and so there were a lot of similar
question ends with that project, and so I think we
realized after that, you know, hey, we really enjoyed this process,
it was successful. Could we try this again? And we
didn't know what again would mean. Would that mean another film,
would that mean an app like we're doing now, But
we always knew we wanted to work together in some way.
(04:16):
So when did you actually start and how did you
know that you wanted to get into gaming. When we
first started the Crikey app, it was actually just augmented reality.
Animals were very interested in conservation, and we wanted to
give people the opportunity to experience a mant array or
a lion just directly in their living room. And we
tried just one single player game. It was a very
(04:37):
simple game with simple mechanics, and it had huge engagement
with our users, and we really felt that there was
an opportunity to try to blend these two interests of
bringing positivity into people's lives and then also engaging people
via games, and that kind of led to the two
titles we currently have a Wingspan and Guerrillas, which are
both amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about those, Yeah,
(05:00):
absolutely so. Guerrillas was made in partnership with the Ellen
Degenerous Wildlife Foundation on Ellen and her wife Porsche started
this foundation in Rwanda to protect the mountain gorillas and
support research and um conservation of these amazing animals, and
so we reached out to them and asked if there
was a way we could work with them on bringing
Rwanda to all of Ellen's fans through augmented reality, and
(05:22):
so we built this are Gorilla Trek experience where her
fans can come in and as they walk around their neighborhood,
they can unlock different a R Guerrilla experiences at every
street corner in their neighborhood. So that's one of the
games that's in our app today and the other one
is called Wingspan, and it's based off a best selling
board game built by Stonemier Games. And in the game,
you are an ornithologist or a bird scientists seeking to
(05:45):
protect and collect birds in different ecosystems UM. So very
similar to the board game. We have these different bird
species and you can find them as you walk around
the map. So very similar to actual birding, but we
call it Digital Birding UM. And so that's the game
that we've been working on, and we have recently published
it at the end of last year and have been
partnering with the National Audubon Society to promote that game.
(06:08):
That's amazing. The fact that you were able to combine
your passion for conservation and these concepts with a r
is pretty incredible, and that you're bringing it to everybody
else is such a gift to the world. And I
know it can't be easy. So I'm going to take
you back a little further into your business. What were
the first steps in launching Crikey? Yeah? I think the
first step, which I'm sure many folks listening to this
(06:30):
are wondering, is why is it called crikey? Uh So
Kittick and I when we were just having these conversations
about starting a business together, like what is the business?
What should it be called? And we finally landed on
an idea, and we were so excited we decided to
start filing our incorporation documents right away. UM. But we
got stopped at the part where we needed to pick
a name. And we happen to be traveling through Australia
(06:51):
at the time, and the word crikey is often used there.
It's slang word that's an expression of excitement or awe,
and that's really the emotion we want people to feel
when they for experience augmented reality and the first experience
our app and so we chose the name Crikey at
that time. UM. And beyond that, in terms of you know,
how did we get started? I think the hardest thing
at the beginning was building a team and figure out
(07:13):
who's the first person that we need to hire and
what is the role that they need to play, and
how do you build a team from there. Um. We
didn't really have an office in the beginning, much like
now we don't have an office anymore. But I think
those were good learning experiences for us. We were um
about six months from graduating, so we were still in school,
balancing school and trying to figure out how to start
this business. Um, And so it was a definitely a
(07:35):
challenging time to figure out how to pull this together
and what to do first. But um, I was very
grateful to have my sister as my partner because we
were able to be very honestly communicate with each other
about what role each of us needed to play in
starting the business as well, and what was the toughest
part about starting it? I mean, starting an a our
company is not a small thought. What was the hardest part?
(07:56):
Was it funding? Was it the talent? I mean, obviously
you guys were both incredibly talented people, so you had
a big leg up there from a funding perspective. We
were really fortunate to have a seed investor who believed
in us and who was able to give us enough
to get started, so that got sorted out quite quickly.
I think the bigger challenge at the time when we
started was what a our tools were available. And I'll
(08:18):
let Kitticky, as our chief technology officer, dive into this
a little bit more. Um, but when we started the company,
there was no a R core, there was no air kit,
there wasn't an a R foundation from from Unity, and
so we were really trying to pull together resources that
she knew about through her PhD program, and I'll let
her speak to that. As Johnny mentioned, a lot of
those tools that have opened up a development to so
(08:40):
many new people and really democratized it were not available
when we started the company. They were in progress but
hadn't been released yet, and so we had to use
a lot of open source libraries to try to figure out,
how are we actually going to deliver this experience? Is
it even going to work on a phone? And we
had a very very small team at the time, and
so that was I think on the technolog g front,
one of the bigger challenges. Of course, as soon as
(09:02):
these tools did come out, we immediately switched over. You know,
we just knew that with a small team, it just
made sense to trust and rely on tools made by
these large companies with huge teams of developers and um
that really did help us improve the quality of the
experience as well. I think that's such a great lesson,
is you know, understanding what you can leverage that's out there,
(09:23):
especially in technology, it's just so quickly changing. So that's
really interesting. Absolutely, And I was gonna ask Kittickie to
speak to the other challenge which we faced was moving
from theory to practice, and so in her PhD program,
a lot of Kittikies research focused on how to immersive
experiences impact real world conservation behavior. That was really the
foundation of where we started in our theory of why
(09:45):
we wanted to start with augmented reality animals um to
bring this research into real life. And I'll let her
speak a bit more to what that research was and
what her early results were and what inspired us to
try and do this in augmented reality. When I was
at stand for my PhD, research was largely focused on
the impact of fully immersive environments, so in virtual reality,
(10:06):
and what we found across a wide range of experimentation
was that when people have immersive experiences, even very short ones,
so less than five minutes, they do feel positive impacts
from those experiences. They do take positive actions after those experiences,
whether that's embodying a piece of coral that gets acidified
and then wanting to learn more about ocean conservation, uh
(10:30):
to you know, embodying a cow that's been led to
the slaughterhouse and again maybe considering should I eat less
meat after having that experience. And I think for us,
we wanted to expose people to these types of ideas
and unique nature experiences, but in a more accessible way.
I think with virtual reality there's high intention involved, where
people either have to buy a headset or they have
(10:51):
to go to a place where there is a headset
readily available, and we felt with a ARE the bar
for accessibility was a lot lower for users. So anybody
who has a supported smartphone could just download an app
and immediately see something an augmented reality. And so that
was really the genesis of why we chose Mobile a
R was that we wanted to give as many people
as possible these great nature experiences, and then using some
(11:13):
of the theory that I mentioned, we wanted to see
could we actually get people to care more about these
conservation issues, whether that's guerrillas in Rwanda or bird conservation,
simply by having these customer experiences where suddenly you're in Rwanda,
you have a baby gorilla with you in your living room.
So you kind of started to leverage that other technology.
(11:34):
And I know, of course you're part of the Apple
E camp, which I've been part of as well. Did
that give you a sort of a big leg up
on what you were doing? And you had mentioned a
R kitten and all that. Yes, definitely the Apple E
Camp experience was UH an amazing time and really really
helpful for us. At the stage we were at, it
(11:54):
was less really about the augmented reality technology and more
about design and design thinking and approaching redesigning our app
from the perspective of the user, And so those sessions
that Apple's E Camp were really helpful for us to rethink, um,
how does the user approach or app? What is the
sentiment that they feel from screen to screen, and how
could we redesign our screens in a more user friendly manner? Um,
(12:17):
how do we think about an augmented reality tutorial? And
for us we talk about ground plane detection and vertical
plane detection, and those terms have meaning to us, but
for a user that's coming in off the app, so
they might not know what those are, and so using
words like that in a tutorial might not be the
best path forward. And so it was it was at
tutorial for your tutorial exactly, yes, which we learned at
(12:40):
the camp um and you know, there's no right answer
to UH user design questions, but it was really helpful
to talk to some of the designers at Apple and
rethink how we wanted to showcase our app within the app. Um.
And I don't know kid to keep you at other
thoughts from the camp, but to me, that was what
really stood out was user centered design thinking. Yeah. Absolutely.
(13:00):
Another point related to that was just having a preview
mode for our users where they can sort of try
before they sign up, and that has been hugely helpful
for us. And we spent a good part of the
camp sort of work shopping different designs for what is
a good preview mode, how should this flow look like?
And it was amazing to have the feedback really in
(13:21):
real time from people who work on these issues every
day at Apple. It was such a cool and unique experience.
And I think also meeting the other woman in our cohort,
you know, I think being a female entrepreneur often it's
easy to feel isolated or that there's not a lot
of others doing the same stuff as you. But going
to E camp, we saw there are so many people
with incredible business ideas who are really making a difference,
(13:43):
and just building those connections was very meaningful for us.
I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think having these
networks of women entrepreneurs and sharing stories, Um, it's just
so it's so motivating. And also it's just it's so critical, um,
because you know, obviously everybody basis setbacks in building businesses,
and I think learning from each other is really really important.
(14:07):
We'll be back with Seneca's Made by Women after this
short break. Are there any moments, um in founding your
company or in the past several years as you've been
building that really kind of made you sweat Any tough
moments where you thought, Wow, this is this is really tough.
(14:29):
We might not get through this. Yes. I think the
hardest thing is always people and building a good team.
And I'm sure every entrepreneur has faced this and having
a team member that didn't work out, um, and knowing
that that's not the end of the world. It's okay,
everyone will move forward, um. But in the moment, sometimes
it feels like can we move forward at all? Uh?
(14:52):
And you learn over time that people are different and
there's a lot to learn in each experience that you
have with the folks that you bring onto your team. UM.
And I think that's always been a challenge will continue
to be a challenge, is reading people, knowing how to
build a team, knowing how to build a team culture
for us team culture is really important. We have these
(15:12):
core values of kindness, honesty, trust, and respect and uh,
these are things that we bring up in first round
interviews with people and hope that uh, not only are
we looking for a technical skill set, but also a
that culture and value skill set of when people come
onto this team, are they going to be a team player,
Are they're going to work well with others? And UM,
I think finding good people is always the biggest challenge
(15:36):
for any company, large or small. So in those moments,
what gives you strength when you face those difficult moments
or have you found techniques to help yourself through it?
I think having each other really helps us, um get
through those moments and get through those tough conversations when
we have to have them. Uh. We're also a great
sounding board for each other when we are in interviews
(15:57):
and considering candidates. We all have biases that we face
and sometimes may not realize them in the moment, but
having someone as a partner who can honestly point them
out helps and I think that together we're able to
find good people and recognize our own biases in the process.
Is there any advice that you wish you had before
(16:18):
you had gotten started that you could share with others.
Just remember that it's, you know, a marathon, not a sprint,
And there's really no such thing as overnight success, you know.
I think oftentimes maybe it can seem like a company
launches and then instantly they have incredible success, but I
feel behind that there's always years and years of work.
(16:38):
And that's I think been a good lesson, at least
for me, is just knowing that we're in this for
the long haul, so we don't expect immediate huge rewards
or success. We're kind of building towards them over sustained
period of time. The other piece of advice I offers
to not give up. We've gone into countless meetings where
we've been made a proposal or pitched an idea, asked
(17:00):
for partnership or promotion opportunity uh and been turned down.
And if we walked out of those rooms saying okay,
well no one's going to give us a chance, we
wouldn't be still here today. I think trying and trying
and trying again, someone's going to say yes, and you
just have to keep going until you find that person.
Also amazing advice, So I want to just get a
(17:20):
little bit deeper into your business because it is such
a fascinating business and you are on the cusp of
so much um, So how does it actually work? What
is the business model? A great question. We are a
mobile app, and so in app purchases is a foundation
of what we do. We're currently really focused on just
continuing to grow our user base, and we do brand
(17:41):
partnerships on occasion for our games, where we build a
game commissioned by a brand partner. UM. And we are
working on figuring out are there other ad models that
we can introduce within the space of augmented reality? And
you've grown quite a lot. How many employees do you
have at this point? We have about team members now,
(18:01):
which is incredible, um and very exciting, wow, incredible. In
an interview, you said that you're a real believer in
using gaming for good. Can you explain this idea of
gaming for good? I think for us, it's very important
that every game title we release, While certainly it should
be entertaining and fun and you know, make people want
(18:23):
to come back every day, it should also sort of
imbue people with positive messages or ideas that they can
take back into the world. And we really feel that
we've done that with both Wingspan and Guerillas, where when
people have these experiences, they're not stressful, they're they're not
necessarily giving people negative thoughts. They're empowering them to see
(18:44):
the world around them in a new way. And I
think that's really what we mean, is that we want
our games to leave people feeling good um when they
go back into the world. I love that, and it's
so important right now. A lot of companies have had
to pivot their business model and operations due to the pandemic,
have had to pivot a lot in this moment, or
since your technology company where you're pretty agile, Yeah, we
(19:05):
did have to make a couple of changes to the app.
So we now have a teleport feature where you can
go to a location to interact with a bird or
a gorilla without even leaving your living room. That's such
an incredible innovation in this moment to be able to
be experiencing guerrillas and birds from your living room. So
I've definitely seen an uptick in UH downloads and players
(19:26):
coming in and game time, which is really exciting to see. UM.
And we've continued to adapt as we've gone and added
new features to each game responding to user feedback. People
are more vocal about their feedback now, so we've been
just taking it all in and trying to stay agile
and keep moving forward. How do you envision your business
moving forward as the world heals from covid nineteam Well
(19:49):
definitely returned to UH, using the map more and blending
a augmented reality and location based gaming. We had a
lot of really neat ideas that we wanted to put
into play of bringing people together in locations in the
outside world, which of course we want to be safe,
but I think there's a huge opportunity um for especially
small businesses on a map, to partner with apps like
(20:11):
this and bring people together in locations around the world.
And is there any advice you might have for other
entrepreneurs who are facing so much uncertainty in business right now?
Is there something you've heard or learned yourselves that you
could share with others who who are really struggling with
with what to do in these many, many new obstacles
(20:32):
that they're facing in this changing time. Definitely balance UH
for us, It's all it's very hard to be working
from home and living at home and not knowing where
does the work stop and where does it end, and
making sure that you take the time for self care
and unplug at the end of the day, I think
is what has helped us stay sane and be able
(20:53):
to keep our foot on the gas and keep moving.
Because it's really easy when you're living at home and
working at home to just be absorbed in the work
all the time. So I definitely would recommend taking time
for yourself so you you are really a story of
incredible success. Um. As you said earlier, it's not easy, uh,
(21:14):
for women entrepreneurs and women in tech in particular can
be a very isolating experience. Do you have any advice
as we think about where we're headed in the world
for young women in gaming or in tech who have
a great idea but might be afraid of taking the leap. Yeah,
I think it's important to just try with the resources
that you have and know that you can always make
(21:35):
changes to the product. You know, when we started the
app was so different from what it is today, and
you know, we just sort of went for it, and
we knew that what we had was far from perfect,
but you know, it was something. It was a starting
point and having a foundation to sort of continually iterate
on does eventually help you reach that level of success.
So that would be my advice is just, you know,
(21:57):
start with what you have and then go from there.
I think this idea of like not being afraid to
fail and to keep going is I think you said
earlier also just so critical. So I guess we're coming
to the close of our interview, but I want to
thank you so much and maybe just ask you one
last question. What is making you optimistic in this moment? Yeah,
I think there's a lot of new opportunities that have
(22:18):
come from the current situation. I think in the context
of gaming, thinking about how to games engage people positively? Uh,
what are what are ways that games can help people
during this unusual and challenging time and maybe beyond really
you know, seeing gaming as an opportunity for social connection,
for sharing positive ideas with others. I think it's it's
(22:40):
given us a lot to think about. Thank you so
much for joining us today on Made by Women and
we look forward to everything that CRIKE is going to
do in the future. Thank you so much. Thank you
so much for having us. I want to thank John
B and Ketticky for an inspiring conversation and for everything
they're doing to use crikey and are Gaming for Good.
(23:02):
A few things really stick out to me from this conversation. First,
it's important to think big and not limit your entrepreneurial vision,
but when starting a business, it's also crucial to understand
what's already out there that you can leverage in the
ever changing tech world. The sisters quickly learned they could
reach a larger audience and successfully deliver a product when
they refocus their gaming options for a mobile user. Second,
(23:25):
seek out opportunities to network and to learn from others,
as John b and Ketaki did at Apple's A camp.
Not only did this experience give them insight on app
design and are gaming experience, but they also have the
opportunity to network with other women entrepreneurs in tech. Sharing
stories successes as well as setbacks helps entrepreneurs succeed and
(23:45):
build a trusted professional network. Lastly, and my favorite takeaway,
there's always an opportunity to make a difference through your work.
As Ketaki learned during her PhD research, technology like virtual
and augmented reality inspire change in a user's real life.
The Crikey games are giving users the opportunity to experience
(24:06):
in dangerous species and the natural world in a way
that inspires empathy and appreciation. The success of John b
and Kadakis company is just further proof that when you
put purpose at the center of your strategy and your business,
you can succeed and make a real difference. To learn
more about crikey, go to krike dot com and you
could also find their app in the Apple App Store
(24:27):
or in Google Play. See You Next Week Made by
Women is brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner
PNG
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