April 22, 2021 • 22 mins
She revolutionized the world of retail and consumer goods when her data-science company, dunnhumby, developed a groundbreaking store loyalty program. Learn how she found success with Big Data—and about her mission to bring more women into leadership roles.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Made by Women by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio. At a moment when businesses
face some of the biggest challenges in recent history, we
bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and shared learnings to
help you successfully navigate in today's environment. Every Thursday, Made
(00:26):
by Women will showcase the experiences of legendary women, entrepreneurs,
fierce up and comers, and everyday women who found success
their own way. Consider this your real world MBA designed
for the new Now. I'm Kim Azzarelli and thanks so
much for joining us today. Big data is one of
(00:46):
the biggest game changers in modern life. It's transformed business, politics, science,
and just about every facet of society. And a Duenna
Dunn is a pioneer in the field. In she co
founded a data science company called dun Humby that revolutionize
the realm of retail and consumer packaged goods. The groundbreaking
(01:07):
loyalty program that Don Humby created helped its Clientestco become
one of the world's largest retailers. For her groundbreaking work,
A Duenna was awarded in OBI one of the British
Empire's highest honors. After selling don Humby a Duenna went
on to become the chair of star Count, a data
science consultancy. A Duenna's journey is a fascinating one. I
(01:28):
hope you enjoyed my conversation with the Duena, co founder
of Don Humby and chair of star Count. But Duenna,
thanks so much for joining us him. I'm delighted to
be here with you. Well, we are very excited about
this conversation, in particular for lots of reasons. Much about
your career to date has been about big data, which
(01:49):
we love to talk about. Then of course getting into
what you're doing with the female lead, but to start,
big data has had a huge impact and continues to
have a huge impact on contemporary life. And you've really
been a pioneer in this field. You founded a global
data science company which created the first mass loyalty program
and changed the way people shop, and now you're the
(02:10):
chair of a data marketing company Startcount. What drew you
to this field and why is data science so important
to our everyday lives? Well, thank you, I mean, yes,
it's a great question. I have to say. I I
was lucky in my first job. I I studied geography,
and no one who studies geography ever thinks they're going
(02:32):
to have an amazing career following that. UM. I enjoyed it,
but I didn't think I was going to step into
a role where spatial analysis was important, and actually I did.
And it was such a time where if you were
a graduate, you really had your choice of job. And
(02:54):
I got offered five roles and I remember thinking one
of them was kind of special, a little idiosyncratic, but special,
and that was the one eventually that I joined. And
it was a big American software consultancy, but the part
I was joining was a small unit that was starting
(03:17):
out in London. It had been in Bermuda and then Ireland. UM,
I guess for tax reasons during R and D development,
and they created this amazing software program and I joined
them in London, and boy did I land on my feet.
I couldn't believe it. Um, it was just I think
(03:40):
it was just such a forward thinking business. It was
a meritocracy. To start with. Was two and a half
thousand people, really really clever software developers, really really bright minds.
And you know, I was this young thing and absorbed
everything like a lunch. And I was with a team,
(04:02):
a tiny team of five other people and we UM.
We used data, the first kind of big data, to
look at how do you match UM people to the
kind of facilities that you need to have in local areas.
And that's really where it all began. Where do you
(04:24):
locate hospitals, Where do you locate fire stations or police
stations or schools? UM so all of these resources and
we use census data, which at the time was hard
to manage and manipulate. And that's where I learned everything.
So fast forward. You got in early, as you said,
(04:45):
in a really interesting way, and then you really, I
mean you took it really far. You you founded companies
and you chair a data marketing company. What was it
like to start your first company At the time, it
was really scary because you you never really know if
you're mad or you're doing something that is going to work. UM.
(05:06):
Most of our friends and ex colleagues had far more
confidence about what we were going to do because I
started it with my husband, so we were broke. We
were both out of a job in a sense because
we were starting this new business. We had a huge
mortgage and we were desperate to make it successful. And so,
(05:29):
you know, far from it being this really clever strategy.
It was actually, we have to make this work. So
we worked really really hard, and um, everything started to
come together. And so much as you know, timing and
being in the right place at the right time, and
we coincided the beginning of our business to the absolutely
(05:53):
dramatic change in the capability of technology. So our trajectory
almost follow owed that path of technology getting bigger and faster,
more powerful, and it enabled us to put bigger and
bigger data onto our technology and do clever and clever things.
(06:14):
And that was really the key to the business. Fascinating,
I mean you you said it so well. Sort of
the fire of having to make it a success often
driving a lot of entrepreneurs in those early days. And
yet you know you you were able to grow it.
You're able to cross that incredible hurdle. Just bringing you
back to the early days, did you ever aspire to
(06:35):
be an entrepreneur? Well, initially I didn't even think I
would be in a career for the whole of my life.
I thought I would become a housewife and have children.
So I was not one of these women that started
off with I know, I want to be in work forever.
(06:57):
The bug caught me and it taught me really big time.
And the more I worked, the more I loved it.
And so after a while, it became absolutely unthinkable for
me not to work. And of course, when you feel
like that, you then discover that the businesses that you
work for have to believe in your power and your abilities,
(07:22):
and the minute they stop investing in in what is
coming next, the more you feel that's really bad news
for my future. And so that's what drove me to
an entrepreneurial lifestyle, because when you can't persuade someone to
do what you believe in, you have to do it yourself. Yeah. Well,
(07:44):
and that's another challenge of entrepreneurs space, which is as
you said, I think earlier about you know, am I
mad or is this real? And especially when you're in
those traditional environments where people can't necessarily see outside the box, um,
you have to have a lot of confidence. So it's
it's kind of amazing to hear your journey because, as
you said, you hadn't even intended really to stay in
the workforce, but once you got in there catching the bug.
(08:06):
You know, your experience throughout that period of being in
kind of traditional corporate or even when you're running your
own business. What has that been like as a woman.
As I say, in the first instant, I found myself,
you know, around really smart people, and I discovered that's
what I loved most, being alongside people who were all
(08:28):
brilliant at their own thing, and that has stayed with
me through my entire working life when I am, when
I'm not working. When we sold the business and retired
for a year, that's what I missed, so so being
around clever people I absolutely loved. And then the other
(08:48):
thing that I discovered that I loved was the innovation,
the kind of evangelizing about what you're doing, kind of
pushing the edges to it's possible um and that really
became sort of part of our DNA um that beginning,
and sort of constantly investing in R and D so
(09:12):
that you stay ahead of the curve. I think it's
very very easy to do something that works, find that
it's profitable, and then sit on it and work it
really hard. But actually if you don't keep investing, sooner
or later someone catches you up and your old news.
So that's really what's propelled me forward to keep looking
(09:34):
at the next thing and the next big idea and
so tell us about your current company, what do you
focus on and what does it do. So star Count
was the next generation of data science UM. So the
data science that I was involved with them, that most
of the industry focuses on is what I call rear
(09:55):
view mirror. It's using data that has already happened to
predict what's going to happen. And that's really what most
of the software and most of the learning UM is about.
What we wanted to do was see if we could
find big data that would be more real time and
(10:16):
would enable us to be more like an Amazon, which is,
if you're buying this today, you might also like X
or why. And that's really hard to do if you're
not Amazon or Google, because you don't have enough data.
We focused on social media, which of course is one
(10:37):
of the biggest imprints of UM data and people's UM
cat making UM there their predilections for you know, I
love this, I don't like this, I share this, I
talk about this, and so actually analyzing social media it's
(11:00):
quite complicated because you've got I don't know, something like
one point four billion people doing something every minute of
every day and trying to make that into a pattern
that you can understand that predicts what people are going
to do, what they love, what they care about. Do
they care about the planet, do they care about plastic free?
(11:24):
These are the kind of things that are the new challenge.
So what I believe in is so what I used
to do was predict um, you are what you buy.
What I'm now looking at and now predicting is you
are what you love. And most often it's the things
(11:45):
we love more than brands, more than products, that drive
our behaviors. You know, do we love being high tech
or super cool, love brands or love the planet? These
are things that define us and change us. And I
think the things that are going to reveal more about
(12:08):
our behaviors than anything else in the future. We'll be
back with Seneca's Made by Women after this short break.
You also started something called the Female Lead, which you
launched in what What in your experience in the business
(12:31):
world prompted you to start the Female Lead? So through
my career where you know, I had this amazing experience
of working with some of the biggest retailers in the world,
and you know, we were able to engage in literally
a joint venture with eighty billion dollar businesses. You know,
(12:53):
I was propelled into the boardrooms of some of these
businesses where we literally became and in glove partner with them.
So it's a very privileged position. But what was very
noticeable was that all of these boards were male, and
so the entire world of retail right across the world
(13:15):
was dominated by men. And it, you know, it didn't
stop me doing my job, but it was slightly uncomfortable
at times because I do believe as women, we do
express ideas in a slightly different way, and I think
(13:36):
that's a sort of an adjustment that has to go
on when you're in totally male environments. And you know,
having experienced this, I thought, how do girls, how do
women see their way through this? You know, my strongest
belief is you can't be what you can't see. And
(14:00):
I couldn't see any female leaders. I couldn't see women
of you know, great strengths, great success with all their stories.
I couldn't see that as I went through my career,
and that's what I wanted to reveal, That's what I
wanted to tell these stories. And you have a you
(14:21):
have a book coming up this far, can you tell
us a little bit about your new book. Created the
first book in two thousand and fifteen, and we had
sixty amazing women. I mean, it was a glorious set
of interviews with these women who I suppose reached the
top of their field in lots of different ways, not
(14:42):
just money and power, but in philanthropy and and in
art or sport, so you know, really, and they told
us their stories of how they got there, and you know,
all the difficulties they experienced on their way. I'm sure
you're very earlier with with hearing these stories. So that
(15:03):
was the first book, and we created films of each
of those and shared them with eighteen thousand schools in
the UK and in the US. We were a little
slower in the US, and we're still catching up, not
not for any reason other than it's a little harder
to navigate the state system in America. It's different in
(15:26):
every state. UM. But these have been very successful and
we now have live female lead societies which the girls
create for themselves. We provide all the materials and we
provide each term new stimulus, new ideas, and the girls
actually run these themselves, UM in their schools or in
(15:50):
their universities. Colleges and so we provide the wherewithal and
they run them and we have about twelve hundred. Society
is so far and you know they love the content
so much, and we wanted to create a new set
of voices, a new set of women, and we wanted
(16:13):
very much to speak to the challenges that I know
you explore, which is what are the challenges that women
are facing today? And right now we know COVID has
hit women harder um and minority is harder than any
other group, certainly the male cohort. And we want to
(16:36):
start addressing the kind of questions that we've researched and
found are the top questions that they ask. And in
this COVID error, what do you feel is the biggest
issue facing women right now? I think working from home
has been um mistaken for flexibility and you know, fleck
(17:00):
stability is absolutely not the same. We've revealed a psychological
condition that women are more likely to experience, which we've
called the unentitled mindset. So because of history around men
and women, we can see that women come to work
(17:22):
with a slightly lower expectation than men naturally have. And
it's particularly apparent when it comes to processes in the
workplace that are not transparent, and those processes are promotion
cycles or um pay rises. These processes are very opaque
(17:47):
and they're not really clearly understood. Why does someone get
promoted and someone else not? Why is someone paid more
than someone else? And women's unentitled mindset is particularly strong
at a time when they need flexibility. Flexibility might be
(18:09):
caring for family, caring for children, caring for elderly parents.
And because they leave the office at five o'clock in
the evening or come to work slightly later, they feel
that benefit offset anything else that might happen to them
in work. They might be slightly seen as a slightly
(18:32):
less important employee because they don't conform to the normal rules.
And this way is very heavily on women um and
we can see that it has a really direct impact,
particularly mid career, to the point that we are losing
(18:54):
women mid career, particularly around the age of thirty two
thirty three. The is the mental load that they're carrying,
you know, it means that performing to be a great
employee and to be a great wife, mother, carera they're
(19:14):
just out of sync, out of balance. And that's the
thing we're really focusing on. Well, that's so critical, and
as you said, it's been so exacerbated in this COVID environment.
So we're grateful that you're focused on that in this moment,
which is so hard for so many people. What is
making you optimistic? I think what we've been able to
(19:35):
reveal is that there are a lot of wit myths
around women. Um, you know women are not ambitious. Well,
that's definitely not right. We've shown that women are very
ambitious and very confident about being ambitious. You know. Are
(19:55):
they risk takers? Yes, if it's worth it, they absolutely are.
Do they mind earning more than their partner? No, not really,
But all of these myths have been put out there.
You know, are women less committed to work when they
have children or when they reach the age where they
(20:16):
might have children, No, not at all, because, um, in
the right situation, with the right support, they can still
be the same brilliant employee that they were. And so
I'm I feel we have a chance literally to build
(20:37):
back better post COVID, you know, by revealing what is
real and what's really holding women back. I think we
can actually create a workplace, you know where the model
employee is no longer based solely on the idea of
what a male best employee looks like. If we can
(20:59):
find into new mortal, then I think we can release
the economic value of what is fifty one of the population. Yeah,
I couldn't agree more this idea that if we could
just fix the women, we would be doing better. It's
definitely a myth, and I think you've just articulated so well. Again,
A Duena, We're really grateful for what you're doing, both
(21:20):
on the big data side but also in the women's space.
It's a huge contribution. So thank you so much for
joining us. Fantastic Thank you, Kim so inspiring. That far
sided perspective makes a tweeta done a true leader and visionary.
There are three things I took from the conversation. First,
(21:41):
recognize we're near at the right time and in the
right place, and seize the opportunity for all its worth.
When they started done Humby, A Duena and her husband
were essentially broke, but they realized they were at the
dawn of a new technological error, and they learned and
grew at the technology developed. Second, it's important to constantly
invest in research and development to stay ahead of the curve.
(22:03):
As a Tweeta says, it's easy to do something that
works fine and is profitable, but if you don't keep investing,
sooner or later, you'll be left behind. Finally, benefit from
a Duenna's insight. She used to say you are what
you buy. Now, she says you are what you love.
As a Tweeta tells us, most often, it's the things
(22:23):
we love that drive our behavior. Made by Women is
brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and
I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG
Welcome to Made by Women by the Seneca Women Podcast
Network and I Heart Radio. At a moment when businesses
face some of the biggest challenges in recent history, we
bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and shared learnings to
help you successfully navigate in today's environment. Every Thursday, Made
(00:26):
by Women will showcase the experiences of legendary women, entrepreneurs,
fierce up and comers, and everyday women who found success
their own way. Consider this your real world MBA designed
for the new Now. I'm Kim Azzarelli and thanks so
much for joining us today. Big data is one of
(00:46):
the biggest game changers in modern life. It's transformed business, politics, science,
and just about every facet of society. And a Duenna
Dunn is a pioneer in the field. In she co
founded a data science company called dun Humby that revolutionize
the realm of retail and consumer packaged goods. The groundbreaking
(01:07):
loyalty program that Don Humby created helped its Clientestco become
one of the world's largest retailers. For her groundbreaking work,
A Duenna was awarded in OBI one of the British
Empire's highest honors. After selling don Humby a Duenna went
on to become the chair of star Count, a data
science consultancy. A Duenna's journey is a fascinating one. I
(01:28):
hope you enjoyed my conversation with the Duena, co founder
of Don Humby and chair of star Count. But Duenna,
thanks so much for joining us him. I'm delighted to
be here with you. Well, we are very excited about
this conversation, in particular for lots of reasons. Much about
your career to date has been about big data, which
(01:49):
we love to talk about. Then of course getting into
what you're doing with the female lead, but to start,
big data has had a huge impact and continues to
have a huge impact on contemporary life. And you've really
been a pioneer in this field. You founded a global
data science company which created the first mass loyalty program
and changed the way people shop, and now you're the
(02:10):
chair of a data marketing company Startcount. What drew you
to this field and why is data science so important
to our everyday lives? Well, thank you, I mean, yes,
it's a great question. I have to say. I I
was lucky in my first job. I I studied geography,
and no one who studies geography ever thinks they're going
(02:32):
to have an amazing career following that. UM. I enjoyed it,
but I didn't think I was going to step into
a role where spatial analysis was important, and actually I did.
And it was such a time where if you were
a graduate, you really had your choice of job. And
(02:54):
I got offered five roles and I remember thinking one
of them was kind of special, a little idiosyncratic, but special,
and that was the one eventually that I joined. And
it was a big American software consultancy, but the part
I was joining was a small unit that was starting
(03:17):
out in London. It had been in Bermuda and then Ireland. UM,
I guess for tax reasons during R and D development,
and they created this amazing software program and I joined
them in London, and boy did I land on my feet.
I couldn't believe it. Um, it was just I think
(03:40):
it was just such a forward thinking business. It was
a meritocracy. To start with. Was two and a half
thousand people, really really clever software developers, really really bright minds.
And you know, I was this young thing and absorbed
everything like a lunch. And I was with a team,
(04:02):
a tiny team of five other people and we UM.
We used data, the first kind of big data, to
look at how do you match UM people to the
kind of facilities that you need to have in local areas.
And that's really where it all began. Where do you
(04:24):
locate hospitals, Where do you locate fire stations or police
stations or schools? UM so all of these resources and
we use census data, which at the time was hard
to manage and manipulate. And that's where I learned everything.
So fast forward. You got in early, as you said,
(04:45):
in a really interesting way, and then you really, I
mean you took it really far. You you founded companies
and you chair a data marketing company. What was it
like to start your first company At the time, it
was really scary because you you never really know if
you're mad or you're doing something that is going to work. UM.
(05:06):
Most of our friends and ex colleagues had far more
confidence about what we were going to do because I
started it with my husband, so we were broke. We
were both out of a job in a sense because
we were starting this new business. We had a huge
mortgage and we were desperate to make it successful. And so,
(05:29):
you know, far from it being this really clever strategy.
It was actually, we have to make this work. So
we worked really really hard, and um, everything started to
come together. And so much as you know, timing and
being in the right place at the right time, and
we coincided the beginning of our business to the absolutely
(05:53):
dramatic change in the capability of technology. So our trajectory
almost follow owed that path of technology getting bigger and faster,
more powerful, and it enabled us to put bigger and
bigger data onto our technology and do clever and clever things.
(06:14):
And that was really the key to the business. Fascinating,
I mean you you said it so well. Sort of
the fire of having to make it a success often
driving a lot of entrepreneurs in those early days. And
yet you know you you were able to grow it.
You're able to cross that incredible hurdle. Just bringing you
back to the early days, did you ever aspire to
(06:35):
be an entrepreneur? Well, initially I didn't even think I
would be in a career for the whole of my life.
I thought I would become a housewife and have children.
So I was not one of these women that started
off with I know, I want to be in work forever.
(06:57):
The bug caught me and it taught me really big time.
And the more I worked, the more I loved it.
And so after a while, it became absolutely unthinkable for
me not to work. And of course, when you feel
like that, you then discover that the businesses that you
work for have to believe in your power and your abilities,
(07:22):
and the minute they stop investing in in what is
coming next, the more you feel that's really bad news
for my future. And so that's what drove me to
an entrepreneurial lifestyle, because when you can't persuade someone to
do what you believe in, you have to do it yourself. Yeah. Well,
(07:44):
and that's another challenge of entrepreneurs space, which is as
you said, I think earlier about you know, am I
mad or is this real? And especially when you're in
those traditional environments where people can't necessarily see outside the box, um,
you have to have a lot of confidence. So it's
it's kind of amazing to hear your journey because, as
you said, you hadn't even intended really to stay in
the workforce, but once you got in there catching the bug.
(08:06):
You know, your experience throughout that period of being in
kind of traditional corporate or even when you're running your
own business. What has that been like as a woman.
As I say, in the first instant, I found myself,
you know, around really smart people, and I discovered that's
what I loved most, being alongside people who were all
(08:28):
brilliant at their own thing, and that has stayed with
me through my entire working life when I am, when
I'm not working. When we sold the business and retired
for a year, that's what I missed, so so being
around clever people I absolutely loved. And then the other
(08:48):
thing that I discovered that I loved was the innovation,
the kind of evangelizing about what you're doing, kind of
pushing the edges to it's possible um and that really
became sort of part of our DNA um that beginning,
and sort of constantly investing in R and D so
(09:12):
that you stay ahead of the curve. I think it's
very very easy to do something that works, find that
it's profitable, and then sit on it and work it
really hard. But actually if you don't keep investing, sooner
or later someone catches you up and your old news.
So that's really what's propelled me forward to keep looking
(09:34):
at the next thing and the next big idea and
so tell us about your current company, what do you
focus on and what does it do. So star Count
was the next generation of data science UM. So the
data science that I was involved with them, that most
of the industry focuses on is what I call rear
(09:55):
view mirror. It's using data that has already happened to
predict what's going to happen. And that's really what most
of the software and most of the learning UM is about.
What we wanted to do was see if we could
find big data that would be more real time and
(10:16):
would enable us to be more like an Amazon, which is,
if you're buying this today, you might also like X
or why. And that's really hard to do if you're
not Amazon or Google, because you don't have enough data.
We focused on social media, which of course is one
(10:37):
of the biggest imprints of UM data and people's UM
cat making UM there their predilections for you know, I
love this, I don't like this, I share this, I
talk about this, and so actually analyzing social media it's
(11:00):
quite complicated because you've got I don't know, something like
one point four billion people doing something every minute of
every day and trying to make that into a pattern
that you can understand that predicts what people are going
to do, what they love, what they care about. Do
they care about the planet, do they care about plastic free?
(11:24):
These are the kind of things that are the new challenge.
So what I believe in is so what I used
to do was predict um, you are what you buy.
What I'm now looking at and now predicting is you
are what you love. And most often it's the things
(11:45):
we love more than brands, more than products, that drive
our behaviors. You know, do we love being high tech
or super cool, love brands or love the planet? These
are things that define us and change us. And I
think the things that are going to reveal more about
(12:08):
our behaviors than anything else in the future. We'll be
back with Seneca's Made by Women after this short break.
You also started something called the Female Lead, which you
launched in what What in your experience in the business
(12:31):
world prompted you to start the Female Lead? So through
my career where you know, I had this amazing experience
of working with some of the biggest retailers in the world,
and you know, we were able to engage in literally
a joint venture with eighty billion dollar businesses. You know,
(12:53):
I was propelled into the boardrooms of some of these
businesses where we literally became and in glove partner with them.
So it's a very privileged position. But what was very
noticeable was that all of these boards were male, and
so the entire world of retail right across the world
(13:15):
was dominated by men. And it, you know, it didn't
stop me doing my job, but it was slightly uncomfortable
at times because I do believe as women, we do
express ideas in a slightly different way, and I think
(13:36):
that's a sort of an adjustment that has to go
on when you're in totally male environments. And you know,
having experienced this, I thought, how do girls, how do
women see their way through this? You know, my strongest
belief is you can't be what you can't see. And
(14:00):
I couldn't see any female leaders. I couldn't see women
of you know, great strengths, great success with all their stories.
I couldn't see that as I went through my career,
and that's what I wanted to reveal, That's what I
wanted to tell these stories. And you have a you
(14:21):
have a book coming up this far, can you tell
us a little bit about your new book. Created the
first book in two thousand and fifteen, and we had
sixty amazing women. I mean, it was a glorious set
of interviews with these women who I suppose reached the
top of their field in lots of different ways, not
(14:42):
just money and power, but in philanthropy and and in
art or sport, so you know, really, and they told
us their stories of how they got there, and you know,
all the difficulties they experienced on their way. I'm sure
you're very earlier with with hearing these stories. So that
(15:03):
was the first book, and we created films of each
of those and shared them with eighteen thousand schools in
the UK and in the US. We were a little
slower in the US, and we're still catching up, not
not for any reason other than it's a little harder
to navigate the state system in America. It's different in
(15:26):
every state. UM. But these have been very successful and
we now have live female lead societies which the girls
create for themselves. We provide all the materials and we
provide each term new stimulus, new ideas, and the girls
actually run these themselves, UM in their schools or in
(15:50):
their universities. Colleges and so we provide the wherewithal and
they run them and we have about twelve hundred. Society
is so far and you know they love the content
so much, and we wanted to create a new set
of voices, a new set of women, and we wanted
(16:13):
very much to speak to the challenges that I know
you explore, which is what are the challenges that women
are facing today? And right now we know COVID has
hit women harder um and minority is harder than any
other group, certainly the male cohort. And we want to
(16:36):
start addressing the kind of questions that we've researched and
found are the top questions that they ask. And in
this COVID error, what do you feel is the biggest
issue facing women right now? I think working from home
has been um mistaken for flexibility and you know, fleck
(17:00):
stability is absolutely not the same. We've revealed a psychological
condition that women are more likely to experience, which we've
called the unentitled mindset. So because of history around men
and women, we can see that women come to work
(17:22):
with a slightly lower expectation than men naturally have. And
it's particularly apparent when it comes to processes in the
workplace that are not transparent, and those processes are promotion
cycles or um pay rises. These processes are very opaque
(17:47):
and they're not really clearly understood. Why does someone get
promoted and someone else not? Why is someone paid more
than someone else? And women's unentitled mindset is particularly strong
at a time when they need flexibility. Flexibility might be
(18:09):
caring for family, caring for children, caring for elderly parents.
And because they leave the office at five o'clock in
the evening or come to work slightly later, they feel
that benefit offset anything else that might happen to them
in work. They might be slightly seen as a slightly
(18:32):
less important employee because they don't conform to the normal rules.
And this way is very heavily on women um and
we can see that it has a really direct impact,
particularly mid career, to the point that we are losing
(18:54):
women mid career, particularly around the age of thirty two
thirty three. The is the mental load that they're carrying,
you know, it means that performing to be a great
employee and to be a great wife, mother, carera they're
(19:14):
just out of sync, out of balance. And that's the
thing we're really focusing on. Well, that's so critical, and
as you said, it's been so exacerbated in this COVID environment.
So we're grateful that you're focused on that in this moment,
which is so hard for so many people. What is
making you optimistic? I think what we've been able to
(19:35):
reveal is that there are a lot of wit myths
around women. Um, you know women are not ambitious. Well,
that's definitely not right. We've shown that women are very
ambitious and very confident about being ambitious. You know. Are
(19:55):
they risk takers? Yes, if it's worth it, they absolutely are.
Do they mind earning more than their partner? No, not really,
But all of these myths have been put out there.
You know, are women less committed to work when they
have children or when they reach the age where they
(20:16):
might have children, No, not at all, because, um, in
the right situation, with the right support, they can still
be the same brilliant employee that they were. And so
I'm I feel we have a chance literally to build
(20:37):
back better post COVID, you know, by revealing what is
real and what's really holding women back. I think we
can actually create a workplace, you know where the model
employee is no longer based solely on the idea of
what a male best employee looks like. If we can
(20:59):
find into new mortal, then I think we can release
the economic value of what is fifty one of the population. Yeah,
I couldn't agree more this idea that if we could
just fix the women, we would be doing better. It's
definitely a myth, and I think you've just articulated so well. Again,
A Duena, We're really grateful for what you're doing, both
(21:20):
on the big data side but also in the women's space.
It's a huge contribution. So thank you so much for
joining us. Fantastic Thank you, Kim so inspiring. That far
sided perspective makes a tweeta done a true leader and visionary.
There are three things I took from the conversation. First,
(21:41):
recognize we're near at the right time and in the
right place, and seize the opportunity for all its worth.
When they started done Humby, A Duena and her husband
were essentially broke, but they realized they were at the
dawn of a new technological error, and they learned and
grew at the technology developed. Second, it's important to constantly
invest in research and development to stay ahead of the curve.
(22:03):
As a Tweeta says, it's easy to do something that
works fine and is profitable, but if you don't keep investing,
sooner or later, you'll be left behind. Finally, benefit from
a Duenna's insight. She used to say you are what
you buy. Now, she says you are what you love.
As a Tweeta tells us, most often, it's the things
(22:23):
we love that drive our behavior. Made by Women is
brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and
I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG
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