November 6, 2023 • 37 mins
Malik spent a Black Lit Weekend in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where the Black Wall Street Massacre took place in 1921.
Ride along on a tour of key locations in the historic Greenwood district.
And listen as Malik talks to Victor Luckerson, author of Built from the Fire: The Epic Story of Tulsa's Greenwood District, America's Black Wall Street
E-mail Malik at RealMalikMuhammad@gmail.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Maligue Buds has all the knowledge you want.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Miligue Buds has.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All the knowledge you needlig But yeah, they have all
the books.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That the whole wild world one of bread Maligue Books.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Malik's bookshef bringing a world together
with books, culture and community. Hi, my name is Malik,
your host of Malik's Bookshew. Whoo. Now I'm out here
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I just went on a spiritual
(00:37):
and mental journey, an historical journey. Do we call this
black Lid Weekend? Around twenty five black owned bookstores around
America joined together in unity to host the Black Bookstore Collective,
(00:58):
and we called it the Black Lit Weekend. From the
East coast to the West coast, from the North coast
of America to the South coast of America all joined
up here at Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Tusa what we call
the Black Wall Street Massacre took place in nineteen twenty one.
(01:25):
It's nicknamed Black Wall Street because of the progressive and
economic elevation of black people who were former slaves migrated
to Tulsa, Oklahoma to build a community, and ultimately their
desire was to have their own state and none of
that came to pass, but the prosperity and of progressing
(01:47):
and the overwhelming businesses took place here. And in nineteen
twenty one a race mascaret where they massacred black people.
We're thirty six black people were murdered, eight hundred injured,
over a thousand homes and businesses destroyed. There was no
(02:10):
monetary compensation, There was no white people that was charged
with murder or any type of crime. This was a massacre,
a race massacre, and it just didn't happen in Tosa.
There's many times all across America where these types of
things that massacres have happened. But we hear the Black
(02:34):
Lit Weekend that we're calling it, where the Black Bookstore Collective.
It's around one hundred of us and we meet periodically monthly,
and we discussed things around books, and twenty five of
us came out to Tosa the network to talk about books,
(02:58):
to talk about organizing and talk about events, to talk
about anything that could elevate and enhance our business and
what we can do collected together. We've had some publishers
peen when Random House came out, Harbor Collins came out,
and we just had a festive weekend which started with
(03:21):
dinner and meet and greet. Then the next day we
got together and went on a tour where we went
to where we went to Tosa, Oklahoma, where the massacre
took place.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We went to.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Stampede Hill where was the last grand stand to prevent
the burning and the murder of all of these innocent
black people, where these white mob in town colluded together,
conspired together, coordinated together and took kerosene, made malotar cocktails
(04:03):
with kerosene, got into airplanes and bombed this black town
they called in Tuwsa, Oklahoma, around around the street called Greenwood.
They bombed all these black businesses, They bombed these black
churches and hotels, They bombed the houses from airplanes. It's
(04:26):
the first time in America that bombs that were filled.
There was malotar cocktails filled with kerosene, was thrown out
of airplanes and bombed onto people Black people. This that
took place in Tulsa, Oklahoma. This is the first time
(04:47):
that that bombs was dropped on America and it was
dropped on black people. And this was a hidden history.
This was a history that even Malcolm Max didn't know.
Most Black people didn't know. Most people didn't know unless
you was from Toaso. They hit this, they hit this massacre,
this twenty nineteen twenty one race massacre. They hit this
(05:12):
from the masses of black people, white people, and everybody else.
And it's just recently want to bite. President Biden came
down here the one hundredth in nineteen twenty one. That
was the one hundredth anniversary of the Tosa Race Mosca
at night from nineteen twenty one. In twenty twenty one,
(05:32):
they had a commemorated a celebration and President Biden came
down here. A lot of people didn't know that this
took place, so but I'm here on the ground witness
in first hand. It was a very emotional part of
our journey and our tour out here. And I'm just
like you know, I was a woman. I went, We
(05:54):
went to the museum, we walked around. First of all,
we saw, you know, the areas that were bombed, and
we saw and we found out, which I didn't know
during Black White Street, that they rebuilt, rebuilt after this,
and they had to pay twice the amount for the
building materials they tried. They burnt up the at least,
(06:15):
I mean their land that were called the deeds of
their property. And then when they had to show them
evidence that they own the deed, then they strict the
mineral rights. Because there was oil in Tasa, Oklahoma, and
black people and Indians had land with a lot of oil.
(06:36):
I believe Oklahoma is the richest nation in America with
oil and then outside of Alaska, Okay. So then what
happened was they gave them land deeds without the mineral rights.
This is the kind of things that have taken place
in America that we can never forget. Never forget why
because if you forget, you're do them to repeat history,
(06:56):
point of history, so that it never happened again. Then
on top of that, like I said, I was telling
you about the stampede Hill, just the last stand a hill.
We walked up this hill where they all was willing
to get their guns and fight for their liberty and
their freedom and their life. They all stood on that
hill and they tried to prevent these white racist, white
(07:19):
supremerists from marching up into the air into that land,
their homes, their businesses, And that's you might as well say,
that's some memorial because they got murdered. They got slaughtered.
They got killed on this stampede hill and they made
a little monument, but it's a sacred land where people
(07:45):
dying and was murdered and killed for protecting their liberty,
their homes, their children, that wi, their businesses, and they
got sloughted. My security, we walked up that hill, we
overlooked the whole Greenwood area there was eventually rebuilt after
(08:06):
the massacre, and then in around nineteen sixty they used
emminent domain to put freeways through the property and take
it again, and that ultimately Tulsa is not what it
used to be. It's a historical site. It's a site
where people can come by and like we did visit
(08:28):
the museum and take a tour and walk up and
down the different areas that were prominent during that time.
But the black folks they finally they left. I might
have seen maybe they say it's about seven percent black
now in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Ultimately, we was defeated. After rebuilding,
(08:55):
we got massacred. We showed resilience. Black people rebuilt, and
in nineteen sixty the government, the local government came in
and used eminent domain to destroy us again and take
our land and build highways and bridges over the land.
(09:18):
It's not what it used to be anymore. It's just
a sight seeing site now it's only seven percent blacks
and TOASA now, I hardly saw any I was shocked.
I saw I hardly saw any black business. I hardly
saw any black businesses. I was shocked. So it's just
(09:42):
a memory. It's just a historical site now. It's just
a tourist town now for us. But if you get
a chance to visit in your lifetime, it's spoun binding,
it's emotional, and it's a place where we hold space
(10:07):
for a symbol of our resilience and our triumph and
how we've devoted in our life to be successful in
America and despite that, in fighting in every war, to
come back to this henious wickedness and evil. So you
(10:30):
know I'm this episode it's definite, definite called Black Wall
Street nineteen twenty one, TUSA, Oklahoma. Definite is since this
is what I'm gonna feature on this episode, that's what
(10:51):
it's gonna be called. So I hope you enjoy the
next footage, which is this young man who took us
on the tour all around green Wood Tosa, Oklahoma, and
gave us a tour about the history and the resilience
of black people of that time. So enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Was actually Booker T. Washington High School Rome night. That's
the day the massac had started. So while they were
having rhyme is when the mascot would have studied at
that church right behind you, that is Mountain Zion Church.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
There. Booker T.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Washington High School would have been right across the street
from me.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So after the school was burned, the kids went to
a grocery store.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
That grocery store was in set on fire, and then
the mascot moved into the rest of the Greenwood district.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So one of the reason Booker T.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Washington got a school named after him here he was
in Greenwood, but also George Washington Carver came to black
Wall Street too, And nineteen o five is when the
founder O. W.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Gurley actually came into this area.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
He bought the first forty acres of land in Greenwood,
and the gold was to make an all black statement.
That's what most of the black towns we're here for.
That's why people relocated Oklahoma. So when I said that
we have some of the worst racial history. It's partially
due to that. Nineteen oh six, George Washington, Carver and
Booker T. Washington were in Oklahoma with the different black
town leaders and tried to help them apply for statehood.
(12:18):
Nineteen oh six is when President Theodore Roosevelt came to Muskoge, Oklahoma,
and he gave a speech about the danger in the
lowne in all black state in the US. The main
reason was Oklahoma was oil territory and if black people
controlled the oil then it would cripple America's economy. So
even though they tried to apply in nineteen o six,
they didn't make it through the application process before being denied.
(12:40):
Then in nineteen oh seven, the goup of Klansmen apply
for statehood and Oklahoma became a state in nineteen oh seven.
So there's really a thing called stupid Oklahoma laws. You
could google it. Once you see it, you'll see that
we have some of the dumbest laws you'll never find.
They don't enforce a lot of them, but they technically
are still on the law books. The reason being is
back then you needed Sea sixty five by laws when
(13:01):
you apply for statehood. The Glansmen did not have sixty five.
I think they only had like fifty. So they just
made up things that were laws where they came from,
or things they just didn't like, and those became lost
here in Oklahoma. So, for instance, women are not allowed
to do their own hair on a Sunday with all
the cosmetology license. It's technically against the law. You won't
get in trouble for it, but it is there. It's
illegal to collect rainwater. It's also illegal to go in
(13:24):
the restaurant and take a bite out of someone else's hamburger.
If the burger has cheese, it's completely legal, specifically saying hamburger.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
What else.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Also illegal to capture a whale in the state of Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So if any of you have ever.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Been through Oklahoma, there's the Big Blue Whale and the
two so Oklahoma. That was meant to be a joke
to say they call it big Blue Whale in Oklahoma.
That's just some of the dumb laws they made up
back then just to have enough to apply for statehood.
So Oklahoma had more black towns than anywhere in the US.
We still have I think fourteen that have city governments.
Back then, I think it was close to the forty.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Some of them are mad named.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
After these churches are the Dying is Burning, Rennisville, tab
clear View, Tallahassee Red Bird Lang Steel one only is
still one. So yeah, so when we talk about the
history here, how many of y'all ever seen Killers of
(14:20):
the Flyer move y'all seen the movie?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yet you gotta go there today because it's like for
you and a half hours.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
But most says territory is only about five miles to
the north of here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The family that they're talking.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
About in the movie that happened about three weeks technically
was three weeks before Greenwood was burned. So back then,
even though this was considered its own place that it's
on US Federal post Office which gave it a US
Federal post codes, this would have been its own town.
After Greenwood was burned, they did have to take loans
out from Tulsa banks. Some of them just pulled their
(14:53):
money out for Part of the reason fire was used
is karencine virus can't be put out with just water,
and as so your bank statements and your land d's
were more likely inside of your home at the time.
So once those things are burned, there's no record of
how much money you have in the bank. So when
you went to the Tasa banks, you got whatever amount
they said you had in the bank, not an accurate
amount of.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What you technically had.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And then also once the land was destroyed, you had
to be reissued another land d which you would have
to then pay taxes to Tulsa to get. Our land
e's were separated because of a lady named Aida Glenn.
Aida Glenn was a nine year old black girl.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
She is the one who made.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Tasa the oil capital of the world. Glynpool, Oklahoma, which
is just to the south of here, is named after her.
That was one of the largest oil strikes in Oklahoma history.
It ended up producing in today's money, almost three hundred
million dollars worth of oil.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Her family only got about forty one million of that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Right after that is when our land d's were changed
in Oklahoma, whereas land rights and our mineral rights are separate.
So when you're asked like how these people getting money,
it's all rights.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Oil rights were taken by mostly landsman.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
If they were owned by Native American people, all you
had to do was kill the husband and they married
the wife and you would inherit her land or you
can adopt black and Native kids because they had land
allotments and they were on the Dodge Roll which Henry
Dodds created to track Native Americans.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So uh, the.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Only ones the freemen from the Greeks were getting paid
for a long time, but the rest of 'em worth.
I don't have it in the iPad, but I do
have a photo of how many of y'all have ever
seen like the uh a dodge roll card before part
So there's one that shows you how they actually got
a lot of the land, and it was by omitting
black people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So if you were on the.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Road then landsmen were able to pay back. Then it
was five dollars and they could take your road part number,
so your name would be omitted on the road scene
and then they could put their name.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
On the lak Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Let me see this, So the hearing sans that those
people were omitted, and then on to the side.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You can see who was added. As far as the
Greenwood district when o'd w.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Gurley got here, after he purchased the first forty eighters
of land, his rule was he would only sell it
to other black people.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
He brought his wife.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Here who was also a millionaire in today's money. The
first thing he built here was actually a rooming house
or hotel, and one of the rules he had in
Greenwood was no structure could be by itself, so if
you had a building, you had to let another family
put a business inside of it. So that's what maximized
the space here. O. W. Gurley was responsible for helping
start one hundred and two businesses in the Greenwood district.
(17:32):
There were only one hundred and ninety seven, so everything
went through him. He was also the fireman, the elected official,
and the sheriff, so he had everybody's jobs. The hotel
he built ended up being the largest hotel in Oklahoma,
largest black on hotel in Oklahoma, and then he recruited JB.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Strafford to move here. JB.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Strafford ended up building the largest black on hotel in
all of the US.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So we will go to the location where that used
to be. But o'd w.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Gurley was arrested foring sit in the riot. He was
put into the internment camp. He got out a few
days later. The only thing he rebuilt was a very
first hotel, and then he moved to California to Los
Angeles region. His wealth in today's money was anywhere between
eight and twelve.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Million, counter fluctuates depend on what you're reading.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
By the time he died, he would have had less
than three hundred thousand. So he lost everything while he
was here, and so did his wife.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We will see a monument that has her.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Insurance claim on there, bless you. It doesn't have ow gurdleies.
He didn't bought one.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And then J. B.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Strafford was the wealthiest person in the Greenwood district, but
all of his businesses were destroyed, and he.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Also did not follow the strict his claim.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
So as we walk the district, gonna get closer up
here on Gap Band Avenue right now, some of y'all
might be a little y'all to no gap.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then the rest of us do.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
This is called they're called the Gap band because of Greenwood,
Archer and Pine. So if you're on Greenwood in between
Archer and Pine, you're in the gap.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So right now you are in the gap.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
The song that most known for his outstanding the other
one is you Dropped the.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Bomb on Me. So the title was about Greenwood. Song
is not so if you listen to a sneak and
that's what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yeah, all right, So any questions while we're right here,
We're all good. So this particular area here, this is
the Greenwill Culture Center behind me. These monuments are what
actually taught me. I had family in Greenwood. My grandma
never talked about that portion of it until I was
probably twenty seven twenty eight. As you can tell, I
(19:23):
joke and play a lot. My grandmother's last name is Brewer.
I saw Moses Brewer on here, so I was like, Grandy,
you really old. You gotta know who these people are.
She was like, well, yeah, it's my uncle. Why he like, well,
his name is on this monument. But then my last
name is on here too, which is Ransom. My grandfather
and his aunt had a tailoring company here. So this,
(19:44):
if there's anything you should take a picture of, it
would be this because this is the people who.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Filed an insurance claim.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
This is not all of the people that were in
the Greenwood district, but you may have had a family
member down here, you just didn't know it because none
of these people were actually from Tosa, Oklahoma. They moved
here from York DC area of Virginia, Kentucky. Like they
literally came here from all over the US because they
were trying to help establish the Black State. And so
a lot of people that I give tours too, they
(20:11):
do find their family names on here, and then they
go back and find out that, yeah, they would have had,
you know, some relatives here in the Greenwood District. And
of course these numbers are all the way back in
nineteen twenty one, so they'd be a lot higher now.
The largest insurance claim on here is Emma Gurleys, which
is one hundred and sixty one thousand, six hundred and
eighty three dollars. She is right there, so that's O. W.
(20:33):
Gurley's wife. That's about two point seven million dollars today.
The Dreamland Theater was owned by the Williams family, Lula
and John one hundred and thirty nine thousand, three hundred
and thirty four dollars and fifty cents. That was the
largest black woman owned theater in Oklahoma. She had three
back then, one in Muskogee, one in Oakamoga, and then
won here. The one here was seven hundred and fifty
(20:54):
seats and it was the only one with their conditioning
at the time. So that's the one I would have
picked if I had to do. Would have been directly
on the other side of that highway, and then when
she rebuilt it, they tore it down again and put
the highway directly on top of where the Dreamland was.
It was also one of the last places burned during
the maskers, so that's what most people that's the picture
most people have seen before is the Dreamland signed hanging
(21:17):
off of the building. This was the very first time
planes have been used Obama Americans Ball the Americans. But
Greenwood is actually almost right in the middle of what's
called the Red Summer that goes from nineteen seventeen to
nineteen twenty four, and in that time period that were
over thirty six Black towns that would burn the exact
same way. Greenwood just happened to be the time more
(21:38):
people died here than any of the others, and then
planes were not used in any of the other blacktown maskers.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But it got the name Red Summer from East Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The town leaders in East Saint Louis were all hung
from street lamps and dis and bowed, so the streets
were completely red with blood when people came out the
next day. That's how it got the name Red Summer
and then that part of that clan fax actually traveled.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The country and they burned towns.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
TUSA was actually founded by klansmen, So inside of that
iPad there was the Plan role from nineteen eighteen Tulsa's
founding father. Tusa's founding father was Tate Brady. He was
the founder of TUSA, but he was also listed as
the chairman of the Plan in nineteen eighteen. But in
nineteen nineteen is when he denounced his clansmanship and he
(22:25):
became a Cherokee man. He went all the way to
the Supreme Court to fight for Cherokee rights.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Reason being he his wife, her real husband.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Disappeared, and then he married her and then he inherited
her land, which was a little bit over seventy acres,
which is where his house is built, and a lot
of his land was built there. But there's a lot
of places in Tulsa, Oklahoma that are actually named after klansmen.
The neighborhood I grew up in that I still live in.
It's called the Heights now, but it was Brady Heights
up until like a year and a half, Yeah, year
(23:03):
and a half, two years ago. Yeah, So I live
I'm on Seanne between Marshall Lackin and you black.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, the street.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
So that actually ended up becoming a black neighborhood in
like the forties and the fifties, and then the Klansmen
moved out. It's now back to being a white neighborhood,
but it was predominantly.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Black back then.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
We have a part owing part which is named after
Judge Robert Owen, who is the one who denied all
these insurance claims, but he's listed in there as a
committee member of the Klan.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And then you got R. L. Jones Airport on the
south side.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
It's named after Richard Lloyd Jones, who was the writer
for the Tasa Tribune who wrote the articles that kind
of helped start the Master itself telling people to arm themselves.
Negros are planning and up rising in Greenwood, and of
course he wrote dead Dick Rowland was supposed to be
lynched for Sultan Sarah Page, so that place is named
after him.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Most of the Greenwood.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
District was named after Tate Brady. It was all called Brady.
It was called the Brady Arts District up until about
three years ago.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
So he's tell them what the the Shenanigan sid Yeah, Yeah,
the one where it's still named after Braddy. Yes, so
it is still named after Brady.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
You just got nowhere to go, and if you on
Google Maps, it is still there. A lot of the
businesses still say they're on Brady Street. They changed it
the Reconciliation Way when but the apartments is it The
Metron Brady is right on the border of Greenwood, but
it's called the Metron Brady because that's Brady Street.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
To be honest, it only changed because people like you
all are.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Gonna be coming here h twenty with twenty nineteen change.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Twenty eighteen is when they changed it.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
King's ball room had a star in front of it
that says Tate Brady. He killed himself in nineteen twenty
four in the kitchen of his house, thank goodness. And
then that used to be his parking garage. But his
name is actually still on the building. So people made like,
you know, of course they wanted that start taking up.
So the city did say, oh well, we're gonna take
(25:01):
up the start. But if you look right above where
the star was, his name is on the buildings and
it says Brady nineteen twenty four because he killed.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Himself that year.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
So a lot of it is real subtle. If you're
not really paying attention to it, you wouldn't know. Even
when they have we have a festival, Mayfest Festival. They
moved it to Greenwood. Technically it's not on Greenwood. It
happens on Detroit Elgin, but it's advertised that it's in
the black Wall Street district, but not really even as
(25:31):
concrete is brand new. We got this in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It like this before y'all got here. You know, it's
actually a flame up there that's supposed to be lych.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
It has not been leased in twenty twenty one. You're
gonna see on the other side, it's not a foot spin.
It's just a real muddy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Pond over there. But that mountain used to work until
after the centennial was over, and then everything went back
to what.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
It was, and so even the clean up of this area,
stuff like that, it was really all the show did
it right for six months or so and then went
back to the way we normally do things. These second
paragraph on theirs, what actually talks about the Greenwood district,
which is the Greenwood area is something of the most
devastating single incident of racial violence in.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
The twentieth century on June first, I'll stopped there.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
It actually happened May thirty first, but it was a
sixteen hour battle, so.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It went from May thirty first to June first.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Benison's following the historic false flame was assault in twenty
four hours. As many as three hundred black citizens died,
thirty six square blocks, twenty three churches, and more than
two thousand businesses and homes went up in flames. Again,
that number is one hundred ninety seven businesses, one two
hundred and fifty six homes. Fig Gray Paul hung over
Toas's northern horizon for days as a result of the
(26:45):
mass of fires, with hands raised before the guns and
soldiers and estimated six thousand black men, women and children
trustpassed Greenwood and Archer Streets.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
The temporary internment camps.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Once those people got out of those internment camps, they
were given tents and that's what they lived in until
they were able to rebuild their facilities in their business.
The person who filed all of these insurance claims, his
name was Buck Colbert Franklin BC Franklin, So John Hope
Franklin Park is named after his that's his son He
actually filed these insurance claims from directly in front of
(27:15):
that street, a little small tree right by the street.
That's where he filed all of these insurance claims from.
He did every last one of them. The city of
Tulsa did actually change the fire ordinance here three days
after the master to say any structure that was not
fireproof the city could confiscate the land.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So again this is three days after it was burned.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
So it was BC Franklin who sued the city of
Tulsa helped get the people that land back, but then
they were denied every insurance claim after that.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
The only claim that was paid was to J. W. McGee.
He got paid for his guns and ammunition. That was
a white man who lived in Greenwood.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
He owned a sporting goods store and his guns and
ammunition was stolen, so he was paid. But nobody else
on this list has ever been paid, even up until today.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So the amount of two million.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Seven hundred and nineteen thousand, seven hundred and forty five
dollars and sixty one cents comes out to about forty
eight million dollars today. If you're a numbers person, if
you were to multiply that buy. I did it at
one hundred years three percent a year. That number came
out to two point one billion dollars, which most businesses
tend to grow twelve to fifteen percent a year. I
did it at three just in case they weren't no
(28:19):
good at business, but they were, so it would have
been a lot higher than that. But when you hear
about the most prominent black business district, you're actually hearing
about the second generation of people that were here, not
the first. The first generation did make quite a bit
of money, but the rebuild of Greenwood.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Is actually what made the most.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And then it was in the green book for the
Negro motorists.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It was a part of the Chittling circuit, so Nat King, Cole,
Billie Holliday, they all used to come perform here.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
So second generation is when Greenwood actually ended up growing.
So it went from one hundred and ninety seven businesses
to two hundred and thirty eight, from thirty six city
blocks to forty city blocks. So most people just think
it was all three nineteen twenty one, but it was
actually that second generation that grew out. Those buildings are
that's some of the only ones that are still around.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
For back then that used to be a knack then.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
All right, so we're gonna go on the other side,
check out some of the businesses and then we'll what
what what breaks that just got that few years ago?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Was it?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I was on the ground, the ground, it just leaves over.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
If the second generation was prosperous more then the first.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
What happened? Just the freeway, that highway? What's the devastation?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yep?
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Domain, So the leadst the legal So this time they
used legislation.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Legal law. The demolished the second generation. So the reason
they couldn't actually fight that Urban.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Renewal was a federal program that gave each city the
right to put a highway wherever they wanted. Uh, the
irony is our mayor, now his grandfather is the put
that highway here. He decided he wanted it there. So
back then they had to pay thirty percent of your
property value, at least thirty percent, so you would get
thirty percent of what your property was worth. But if
(30:13):
you didn't take the money, they were gonna tear down anyway.
So it was a lout to take the money or not.
But that thirty percent is also just enough for you
to go rent another space but not actually buy one.
And so by putting that highway there and turn it up,
they did what they couldn't do the first time, which was.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Take the land owner ship away.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
So once the land was taken from the people, there
was no way for them to rebuild. And since Greenwood's
second generation, that has not been a black on gas
station since then. He just got the first black on
grocery store two years ago, or there's not been a
black on hotel here or anything like that. So these
are the ones that were burned. This is all one
(30:49):
hundred and ninety seven of them. It does have a
US Federal post office here, so technically to burn the
Greenwoods should have been a federal crime. It was not
tried as a federal crime. But if you would have
burned a post office today, you are going.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
To the fix. There's quite a few hotels on here.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Fourteen different hotels in Greenwood the first time, and then
they had sixteen.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
The second time.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Barry Jones' parents had a private school, and then Madam C. J.
Walker had a beauty parlor here. It actually used to
be right underneath where the highway is too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And then what else.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
This is a list of the black doctors with practice
in this area up until two thousand and then it
was two thousand and six. We didn't have this many
black doctors in the entire city until two thousand and six.
So Greenwood had it first. How many have y'all ever
been to a black owned hospital?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Don't look he there? Yeah, I didn't even know this
was a thing. That's wrong. Okay, well, yeah you an.
S Pristill Memorial was the first hospital they had here,
and then it was more than the second time. But
if you're from the South, we call it Moton, then
it ain't Morton to us. Been my favorite. They would
have had a waffle house down here. I don't know
why I love wafe house what I do? It would
(31:57):
have been right where that white van is over there.
I was Cameron Street. So once they rebuilt.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
It, they put it there, and then the highway toy
up Camon Street.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
All right, who else is gonna hear? Jackson undertaking company?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
That is actually Michael Jackson's family. Tito Jackson comes here
a few times a year. That's Joe Jackson's uncle. Wish
they'd have found that out with Michael was still here,
because maybe he had pulled up it actually is still
functioning now though it's called Jack's Funeral Service now, but
that one used to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
What else.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Couston had their own libraries here, Cotton Clubs.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So listen to Knox.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
He was actually from Harlem, so he brought his guy
the Club from Harlem to here and.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
He plans for a memorial for the second generation of
success in Tosa. I want to get your name for
Victor lu Lucker's son, Lucas Lucasen.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Okay, Victor Lucasen.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
This is Malik from Malik's Bookshelf bringing the world together
with books, culture and community. And when I see an author,
especially a non fiction author, I like to get some
words about their book and just what inspired you to
write Built from the Fire.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So Victor Lucason tell us.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
About this wonderful new book that was released.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
By Random House, Built from the Fire.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah, so I'm Victim. I'm the author Built from the Fire.
My book just came out in May, and it's really
a full account of the Greenwood's history. You're gonna learn
about not only the race massacre, that traumatic event, but
also the building up of Greenwood. You know, how they
created this eating of the western Oklahoma how they rebuild
it after the race masker, what's going on there now?
Afi followed several families for generations across Greenwood, so you
(33:42):
really get that generation of saga and learn about black
folks doing for themselves, working together, building you know something
that we all now idolizing Revere in Black Wall Street.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's really what this story is about.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
It's about black success, Black holid aarity, black community.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Why is that important?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
If people know this history and learns in what happened
here at Tasa Oklahom.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
I mean, one reason it's important is because none of
us got taught at in school. You know, I didn't
learn this in school. My friends didn't learn it. I
didn't need you know what I mean? But this is,
this is this is vital American history, not only because
of the race Master, but because of that idea of
black success. We don't get taught about black success when
we're young people in America, and so I think getting
those kind of lessons two people of all ages is vital.
(34:23):
And that's why there's a book, as I said, really
focuses on the black experience in Greenwood, the way this
folks were able to overcome so many obstacles across generations,
and so are so are today We're near agree with
right now, and we saw basually are facing here in
this community right now that folks are working to overcome.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You know, I just found out that.
Speaker 6 (34:43):
The Massacre from nineteen twenty one that they rebuilt and
it was the imminent domain that destroyed the prosperity in
the building of you know, after the nineteen twenty one
touch on that for me a little bit because I
just found that out today.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Yeah, So Greenwood was rebuilt after the race of Massacre
had a second heyday thirties, forties and fifties. For the
nineteen sixties, the government put a highway right in the
middle of the neighborhood. It is still there today. And
also with emminent domain, they took hundreds of properties from
black landowners in that era. And so my book goes
through in great detail all that I'm folded that kind
of second theft of the neighborhood in the book.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I call it slower burn, that.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
Second destruction and the strain point I understanding that history
too to really understand why black communities are the way
they are today across the United States.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I got one more.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
Question because you probably get this question sometimes, why bring
up this old history when this is twenty twenty three
and we should just move on. Can you talk about
how you address those types of questions, Why we bring
it up old history and bringing up killing off the
band aid of old wounds when we should be just
(35:56):
focusing on to now and getting along now. And how
can we get along if we keep ripping off the
band aid?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
About these my slinkers and I mean my singers.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Yeah, Well, the first thing you got to understand is
that American history is.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Not a line, it's a circle. You know.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
We live in cycles in this community, in this country,
and so when you learn about Greenwood, a lot of ways,
you're learning about some of the obits we may be
facing in the future. The race masker was violent, yes,
but we have racer of violence going on right now
in America. That kind of violence and hatred, it can
always re emerge. So there's no way we can bury
the history because we're always dealing with it in this country.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
Absolutely, and we need to be mindful that this can
be repeated if we don't learn the lessons from yesterday.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean, there's things that's.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Going around right now and just systematic and discriminating in
people and gentrification and destruction of our culture and our history.
It's still happening today, banned books.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So you know, give me your.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Final thoughts and from my audience on Belief's bookshelf.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Well, you know, I think learning, learning our through is vital,
Learning true history is vital. There's so many challenges to
our true history going on right now across the United States.
So whether you read my book or anybody else's book,
that's accurate, that's true, that's courageous. That's want people to
embrace that true Black history because that's all we got.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
You heard it first hand, so you gotta pick your
copy up. Built from the Fire by Victor Lucason.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I gotta get it right, get it tight.
Speaker 6 (37:25):
Thanks for listening to Malik's bookshelf with topics on the
shelf are books, culture, and community.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Be sure to subscribe and leave me a review. Check
out my instagram at Maleak Books. See you next time.
Maligue Buds has all the knowledge you want.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Miligue Buds has.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All the knowledge you needlig But yeah, they have all
the books.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That the whole wild world one of bread Maligue Books.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Malik's bookshef bringing a world together
with books, culture and community. Hi, my name is Malik,
your host of Malik's Bookshew. Whoo. Now I'm out here
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I just went on a spiritual
(00:37):
and mental journey, an historical journey. Do we call this
black Lid Weekend? Around twenty five black owned bookstores around
America joined together in unity to host the Black Bookstore Collective,
(00:58):
and we called it the Black Lit Weekend. From the
East coast to the West coast, from the North coast
of America to the South coast of America all joined
up here at Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Tusa what we call
the Black Wall Street Massacre took place in nineteen twenty one.
(01:25):
It's nicknamed Black Wall Street because of the progressive and
economic elevation of black people who were former slaves migrated
to Tulsa, Oklahoma to build a community, and ultimately their
desire was to have their own state and none of
that came to pass, but the prosperity and of progressing
(01:47):
and the overwhelming businesses took place here. And in nineteen
twenty one a race mascaret where they massacred black people.
We're thirty six black people were murdered, eight hundred injured,
over a thousand homes and businesses destroyed. There was no
(02:10):
monetary compensation, There was no white people that was charged
with murder or any type of crime. This was a massacre,
a race massacre, and it just didn't happen in Tosa.
There's many times all across America where these types of
things that massacres have happened. But we hear the Black
(02:34):
Lit Weekend that we're calling it, where the Black Bookstore Collective.
It's around one hundred of us and we meet periodically monthly,
and we discussed things around books, and twenty five of
us came out to Tosa the network to talk about books,
(02:58):
to talk about organizing and talk about events, to talk
about anything that could elevate and enhance our business and
what we can do collected together. We've had some publishers
peen when Random House came out, Harbor Collins came out,
and we just had a festive weekend which started with
(03:21):
dinner and meet and greet. Then the next day we
got together and went on a tour where we went
to where we went to Tosa, Oklahoma, where the massacre
took place.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We went to.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Stampede Hill where was the last grand stand to prevent
the burning and the murder of all of these innocent
black people, where these white mob in town colluded together,
conspired together, coordinated together and took kerosene, made malotar cocktails
(04:03):
with kerosene, got into airplanes and bombed this black town
they called in Tuwsa, Oklahoma, around around the street called Greenwood.
They bombed all these black businesses, They bombed these black
churches and hotels, They bombed the houses from airplanes. It's
(04:26):
the first time in America that bombs that were filled.
There was malotar cocktails filled with kerosene, was thrown out
of airplanes and bombed onto people Black people. This that
took place in Tulsa, Oklahoma. This is the first time
(04:47):
that that bombs was dropped on America and it was
dropped on black people. And this was a hidden history.
This was a history that even Malcolm Max didn't know.
Most Black people didn't know. Most people didn't know unless
you was from Toaso. They hit this, they hit this massacre,
this twenty nineteen twenty one race massacre. They hit this
(05:12):
from the masses of black people, white people, and everybody else.
And it's just recently want to bite. President Biden came
down here the one hundredth in nineteen twenty one. That
was the one hundredth anniversary of the Tosa Race Mosca
at night from nineteen twenty one. In twenty twenty one,
(05:32):
they had a commemorated a celebration and President Biden came
down here. A lot of people didn't know that this
took place, so but I'm here on the ground witness
in first hand. It was a very emotional part of
our journey and our tour out here. And I'm just
like you know, I was a woman. I went, We
(05:54):
went to the museum, we walked around. First of all,
we saw, you know, the areas that were bombed, and
we saw and we found out, which I didn't know
during Black White Street, that they rebuilt, rebuilt after this,
and they had to pay twice the amount for the
building materials they tried. They burnt up the at least,
(06:15):
I mean their land that were called the deeds of
their property. And then when they had to show them
evidence that they own the deed, then they strict the
mineral rights. Because there was oil in Tasa, Oklahoma, and
black people and Indians had land with a lot of oil.
(06:36):
I believe Oklahoma is the richest nation in America with
oil and then outside of Alaska, Okay. So then what
happened was they gave them land deeds without the mineral rights.
This is the kind of things that have taken place
in America that we can never forget. Never forget why
because if you forget, you're do them to repeat history,
(06:56):
point of history, so that it never happened again. Then
on top of that, like I said, I was telling
you about the stampede Hill, just the last stand a hill.
We walked up this hill where they all was willing
to get their guns and fight for their liberty and
their freedom and their life. They all stood on that
hill and they tried to prevent these white racist, white
(07:19):
supremerists from marching up into the air into that land,
their homes, their businesses, And that's you might as well say,
that's some memorial because they got murdered. They got slaughtered.
They got killed on this stampede hill and they made
a little monument, but it's a sacred land where people
(07:45):
dying and was murdered and killed for protecting their liberty,
their homes, their children, that wi, their businesses, and they
got sloughted. My security, we walked up that hill, we
overlooked the whole Greenwood area there was eventually rebuilt after
(08:06):
the massacre, and then in around nineteen sixty they used
emminent domain to put freeways through the property and take
it again, and that ultimately Tulsa is not what it
used to be. It's a historical site. It's a site
where people can come by and like we did visit
(08:28):
the museum and take a tour and walk up and
down the different areas that were prominent during that time.
But the black folks they finally they left. I might
have seen maybe they say it's about seven percent black
now in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Ultimately, we was defeated. After rebuilding,
(08:55):
we got massacred. We showed resilience. Black people rebuilt, and
in nineteen sixty the government, the local government came in
and used eminent domain to destroy us again and take
our land and build highways and bridges over the land.
(09:18):
It's not what it used to be anymore. It's just
a sight seeing site now it's only seven percent blacks
and TOASA now, I hardly saw any I was shocked.
I saw I hardly saw any black business. I hardly
saw any black businesses. I was shocked. So it's just
(09:42):
a memory. It's just a historical site now. It's just
a tourist town now for us. But if you get
a chance to visit in your lifetime, it's spoun binding,
it's emotional, and it's a place where we hold space
(10:07):
for a symbol of our resilience and our triumph and
how we've devoted in our life to be successful in
America and despite that, in fighting in every war, to
come back to this henious wickedness and evil. So you
(10:30):
know I'm this episode it's definite, definite called Black Wall
Street nineteen twenty one, TUSA, Oklahoma. Definite is since this
is what I'm gonna feature on this episode, that's what
(10:51):
it's gonna be called. So I hope you enjoy the
next footage, which is this young man who took us
on the tour all around green Wood Tosa, Oklahoma, and
gave us a tour about the history and the resilience
of black people of that time. So enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Was actually Booker T. Washington High School Rome night. That's
the day the massac had started. So while they were
having rhyme is when the mascot would have studied at
that church right behind you, that is Mountain Zion Church.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
There. Booker T.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Washington High School would have been right across the street
from me.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So after the school was burned, the kids went to
a grocery store.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
That grocery store was in set on fire, and then
the mascot moved into the rest of the Greenwood district.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So one of the reason Booker T.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Washington got a school named after him here he was
in Greenwood, but also George Washington Carver came to black
Wall Street too, And nineteen o five is when the
founder O. W.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Gurley actually came into this area.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
He bought the first forty acres of land in Greenwood,
and the gold was to make an all black statement.
That's what most of the black towns we're here for.
That's why people relocated Oklahoma. So when I said that
we have some of the worst racial history. It's partially
due to that. Nineteen oh six, George Washington, Carver and
Booker T. Washington were in Oklahoma with the different black
town leaders and tried to help them apply for statehood.
(12:18):
Nineteen oh six is when President Theodore Roosevelt came to Muskoge, Oklahoma,
and he gave a speech about the danger in the
lowne in all black state in the US. The main
reason was Oklahoma was oil territory and if black people
controlled the oil then it would cripple America's economy. So
even though they tried to apply in nineteen o six,
they didn't make it through the application process before being denied.
(12:40):
Then in nineteen oh seven, the goup of Klansmen apply
for statehood and Oklahoma became a state in nineteen oh seven.
So there's really a thing called stupid Oklahoma laws. You
could google it. Once you see it, you'll see that
we have some of the dumbest laws you'll never find.
They don't enforce a lot of them, but they technically
are still on the law books. The reason being is
back then you needed Sea sixty five by laws when
(13:01):
you apply for statehood. The Glansmen did not have sixty five.
I think they only had like fifty. So they just
made up things that were laws where they came from,
or things they just didn't like, and those became lost
here in Oklahoma. So, for instance, women are not allowed
to do their own hair on a Sunday with all
the cosmetology license. It's technically against the law. You won't
get in trouble for it, but it is there. It's
illegal to collect rainwater. It's also illegal to go in
(13:24):
the restaurant and take a bite out of someone else's hamburger.
If the burger has cheese, it's completely legal, specifically saying hamburger.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
What else.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Also illegal to capture a whale in the state of Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So if any of you have ever.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Been through Oklahoma, there's the Big Blue Whale and the
two so Oklahoma. That was meant to be a joke
to say they call it big Blue Whale in Oklahoma.
That's just some of the dumb laws they made up
back then just to have enough to apply for statehood.
So Oklahoma had more black towns than anywhere in the US.
We still have I think fourteen that have city governments.
Back then, I think it was close to the forty.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Some of them are mad named.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
After these churches are the Dying is Burning, Rennisville, tab
clear View, Tallahassee Red Bird Lang Steel one only is
still one. So yeah, so when we talk about the
history here, how many of y'all ever seen Killers of
(14:20):
the Flyer move y'all seen the movie?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yet you gotta go there today because it's like for
you and a half hours.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
But most says territory is only about five miles to
the north of here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The family that they're talking.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
About in the movie that happened about three weeks technically
was three weeks before Greenwood was burned. So back then,
even though this was considered its own place that it's
on US Federal post Office which gave it a US
Federal post codes, this would have been its own town.
After Greenwood was burned, they did have to take loans
out from Tulsa banks. Some of them just pulled their
(14:53):
money out for Part of the reason fire was used
is karencine virus can't be put out with just water,
and as so your bank statements and your land d's
were more likely inside of your home at the time.
So once those things are burned, there's no record of
how much money you have in the bank. So when
you went to the Tasa banks, you got whatever amount
they said you had in the bank, not an accurate
amount of.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What you technically had.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And then also once the land was destroyed, you had
to be reissued another land d which you would have
to then pay taxes to Tulsa to get. Our land
e's were separated because of a lady named Aida Glenn.
Aida Glenn was a nine year old black girl.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
She is the one who made.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Tasa the oil capital of the world. Glynpool, Oklahoma, which
is just to the south of here, is named after her.
That was one of the largest oil strikes in Oklahoma history.
It ended up producing in today's money, almost three hundred
million dollars worth of oil.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Her family only got about forty one million of that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Right after that is when our land d's were changed
in Oklahoma, whereas land rights and our mineral rights are separate.
So when you're asked like how these people getting money,
it's all rights.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Oil rights were taken by mostly landsman.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
If they were owned by Native American people, all you
had to do was kill the husband and they married
the wife and you would inherit her land or you
can adopt black and Native kids because they had land
allotments and they were on the Dodge Roll which Henry
Dodds created to track Native Americans.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So uh, the.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Only ones the freemen from the Greeks were getting paid
for a long time, but the rest of 'em worth.
I don't have it in the iPad, but I do
have a photo of how many of y'all have ever
seen like the uh a dodge roll card before part
So there's one that shows you how they actually got
a lot of the land, and it was by omitting
black people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So if you were on the.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Road then landsmen were able to pay back. Then it
was five dollars and they could take your road part number,
so your name would be omitted on the road scene
and then they could put their name.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
On the lak Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Let me see this, So the hearing sans that those
people were omitted, and then on to the side.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You can see who was added. As far as the
Greenwood district when o'd w.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Gurley got here, after he purchased the first forty eighters
of land, his rule was he would only sell it
to other black people.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
He brought his wife.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Here who was also a millionaire in today's money. The
first thing he built here was actually a rooming house
or hotel, and one of the rules he had in
Greenwood was no structure could be by itself, so if
you had a building, you had to let another family
put a business inside of it. So that's what maximized
the space here. O. W. Gurley was responsible for helping
start one hundred and two businesses in the Greenwood district.
(17:32):
There were only one hundred and ninety seven, so everything
went through him. He was also the fireman, the elected official,
and the sheriff, so he had everybody's jobs. The hotel
he built ended up being the largest hotel in Oklahoma,
largest black on hotel in Oklahoma, and then he recruited JB.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Strafford to move here. JB.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Strafford ended up building the largest black on hotel in
all of the US.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So we will go to the location where that used
to be. But o'd w.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Gurley was arrested foring sit in the riot. He was
put into the internment camp. He got out a few
days later. The only thing he rebuilt was a very
first hotel, and then he moved to California to Los
Angeles region. His wealth in today's money was anywhere between
eight and twelve.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Million, counter fluctuates depend on what you're reading.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
By the time he died, he would have had less
than three hundred thousand. So he lost everything while he
was here, and so did his wife.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
We will see a monument that has her.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Insurance claim on there, bless you. It doesn't have ow gurdleies.
He didn't bought one.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And then J. B.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Strafford was the wealthiest person in the Greenwood district, but
all of his businesses were destroyed, and he.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Also did not follow the strict his claim.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
So as we walk the district, gonna get closer up
here on Gap Band Avenue right now, some of y'all
might be a little y'all to no gap.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Then the rest of us do.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
This is called they're called the Gap band because of Greenwood,
Archer and Pine. So if you're on Greenwood in between
Archer and Pine, you're in the gap.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So right now you are in the gap.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
The song that most known for his outstanding the other
one is you Dropped the.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Bomb on Me. So the title was about Greenwood. Song
is not so if you listen to a sneak and
that's what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yeah, all right, So any questions while we're right here,
We're all good. So this particular area here, this is
the Greenwill Culture Center behind me. These monuments are what
actually taught me. I had family in Greenwood. My grandma
never talked about that portion of it until I was
probably twenty seven twenty eight. As you can tell, I
(19:23):
joke and play a lot. My grandmother's last name is Brewer.
I saw Moses Brewer on here, so I was like, Grandy,
you really old. You gotta know who these people are.
She was like, well, yeah, it's my uncle. Why he like, well,
his name is on this monument. But then my last
name is on here too, which is Ransom. My grandfather
and his aunt had a tailoring company here. So this,
(19:44):
if there's anything you should take a picture of, it
would be this because this is the people who.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Filed an insurance claim.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
This is not all of the people that were in
the Greenwood district, but you may have had a family
member down here, you just didn't know it because none
of these people were actually from Tosa, Oklahoma. They moved
here from York DC area of Virginia, Kentucky. Like they
literally came here from all over the US because they
were trying to help establish the Black State. And so
a lot of people that I give tours too, they
(20:11):
do find their family names on here, and then they
go back and find out that, yeah, they would have had,
you know, some relatives here in the Greenwood District. And
of course these numbers are all the way back in
nineteen twenty one, so they'd be a lot higher now.
The largest insurance claim on here is Emma Gurleys, which
is one hundred and sixty one thousand, six hundred and
eighty three dollars. She is right there, so that's O. W.
(20:33):
Gurley's wife. That's about two point seven million dollars today.
The Dreamland Theater was owned by the Williams family, Lula
and John one hundred and thirty nine thousand, three hundred
and thirty four dollars and fifty cents. That was the
largest black woman owned theater in Oklahoma. She had three
back then, one in Muskogee, one in Oakamoga, and then
won here. The one here was seven hundred and fifty
(20:54):
seats and it was the only one with their conditioning
at the time. So that's the one I would have
picked if I had to do. Would have been directly
on the other side of that highway, and then when
she rebuilt it, they tore it down again and put
the highway directly on top of where the Dreamland was.
It was also one of the last places burned during
the maskers, so that's what most people that's the picture
most people have seen before is the Dreamland signed hanging
(21:17):
off of the building. This was the very first time
planes have been used Obama Americans Ball the Americans. But
Greenwood is actually almost right in the middle of what's
called the Red Summer that goes from nineteen seventeen to
nineteen twenty four, and in that time period that were
over thirty six Black towns that would burn the exact
same way. Greenwood just happened to be the time more
(21:38):
people died here than any of the others, and then
planes were not used in any of the other blacktown maskers.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But it got the name Red Summer from East Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The town leaders in East Saint Louis were all hung
from street lamps and dis and bowed, so the streets
were completely red with blood when people came out the
next day. That's how it got the name Red Summer
and then that part of that clan fax actually traveled.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The country and they burned towns.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
TUSA was actually founded by klansmen, So inside of that
iPad there was the Plan role from nineteen eighteen Tulsa's
founding father. Tusa's founding father was Tate Brady. He was
the founder of TUSA, but he was also listed as
the chairman of the Plan in nineteen eighteen. But in
nineteen nineteen is when he denounced his clansmanship and he
(22:25):
became a Cherokee man. He went all the way to
the Supreme Court to fight for Cherokee rights.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Reason being he his wife, her real husband.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Disappeared, and then he married her and then he inherited
her land, which was a little bit over seventy acres,
which is where his house is built, and a lot
of his land was built there. But there's a lot
of places in Tulsa, Oklahoma that are actually named after klansmen.
The neighborhood I grew up in that I still live in.
It's called the Heights now, but it was Brady Heights
up until like a year and a half, Yeah, year
(23:03):
and a half, two years ago. Yeah, So I live
I'm on Seanne between Marshall Lackin and you black.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, the street.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
So that actually ended up becoming a black neighborhood in
like the forties and the fifties, and then the Klansmen
moved out. It's now back to being a white neighborhood,
but it was predominantly.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Black back then.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
We have a part owing part which is named after
Judge Robert Owen, who is the one who denied all
these insurance claims, but he's listed in there as a
committee member of the Klan.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And then you got R. L. Jones Airport on the
south side.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
It's named after Richard Lloyd Jones, who was the writer
for the Tasa Tribune who wrote the articles that kind
of helped start the Master itself telling people to arm themselves.
Negros are planning and up rising in Greenwood, and of
course he wrote dead Dick Rowland was supposed to be
lynched for Sultan Sarah Page, so that place is named
after him.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Most of the Greenwood.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
District was named after Tate Brady. It was all called Brady.
It was called the Brady Arts District up until about
three years ago.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
So he's tell them what the the Shenanigan sid Yeah, Yeah,
the one where it's still named after Braddy. Yes, so
it is still named after Brady.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
You just got nowhere to go, and if you on
Google Maps, it is still there. A lot of the
businesses still say they're on Brady Street. They changed it
the Reconciliation Way when but the apartments is it The
Metron Brady is right on the border of Greenwood, but
it's called the Metron Brady because that's Brady Street.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
To be honest, it only changed because people like you
all are.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Gonna be coming here h twenty with twenty nineteen change.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Twenty eighteen is when they changed it.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
King's ball room had a star in front of it
that says Tate Brady. He killed himself in nineteen twenty
four in the kitchen of his house, thank goodness. And
then that used to be his parking garage. But his
name is actually still on the building. So people made like,
you know, of course they wanted that start taking up.
So the city did say, oh well, we're gonna take
(25:01):
up the start. But if you look right above where
the star was, his name is on the buildings and
it says Brady nineteen twenty four because he killed.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Himself that year.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
So a lot of it is real subtle. If you're
not really paying attention to it, you wouldn't know. Even
when they have we have a festival, Mayfest Festival. They
moved it to Greenwood. Technically it's not on Greenwood. It
happens on Detroit Elgin, but it's advertised that it's in
the black Wall Street district, but not really even as
(25:31):
concrete is brand new. We got this in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It like this before y'all got here. You know, it's
actually a flame up there that's supposed to be lych.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
It has not been leased in twenty twenty one. You're
gonna see on the other side, it's not a foot spin.
It's just a real muddy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Pond over there. But that mountain used to work until
after the centennial was over, and then everything went back
to what.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
It was, and so even the clean up of this area,
stuff like that, it was really all the show did
it right for six months or so and then went
back to the way we normally do things. These second
paragraph on theirs, what actually talks about the Greenwood district,
which is the Greenwood area is something of the most
devastating single incident of racial violence in.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
The twentieth century on June first, I'll stopped there.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
It actually happened May thirty first, but it was a
sixteen hour battle, so.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It went from May thirty first to June first.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Benison's following the historic false flame was assault in twenty
four hours. As many as three hundred black citizens died,
thirty six square blocks, twenty three churches, and more than
two thousand businesses and homes went up in flames. Again,
that number is one hundred ninety seven businesses, one two
hundred and fifty six homes. Fig Gray Paul hung over
Toas's northern horizon for days as a result of the
(26:45):
mass of fires, with hands raised before the guns and
soldiers and estimated six thousand black men, women and children
trustpassed Greenwood and Archer Streets.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
The temporary internment camps.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Once those people got out of those internment camps, they
were given tents and that's what they lived in until
they were able to rebuild their facilities in their business.
The person who filed all of these insurance claims, his
name was Buck Colbert Franklin BC Franklin, So John Hope
Franklin Park is named after his that's his son He
actually filed these insurance claims from directly in front of
(27:15):
that street, a little small tree right by the street.
That's where he filed all of these insurance claims from.
He did every last one of them. The city of
Tulsa did actually change the fire ordinance here three days
after the master to say any structure that was not
fireproof the city could confiscate the land.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So again this is three days after it was burned.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
So it was BC Franklin who sued the city of
Tulsa helped get the people that land back, but then
they were denied every insurance claim after that.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
The only claim that was paid was to J. W. McGee.
He got paid for his guns and ammunition. That was
a white man who lived in Greenwood.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
He owned a sporting goods store and his guns and
ammunition was stolen, so he was paid. But nobody else
on this list has ever been paid, even up until today.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So the amount of two million.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Seven hundred and nineteen thousand, seven hundred and forty five
dollars and sixty one cents comes out to about forty
eight million dollars today. If you're a numbers person, if
you were to multiply that buy. I did it at
one hundred years three percent a year. That number came
out to two point one billion dollars, which most businesses
tend to grow twelve to fifteen percent a year. I
did it at three just in case they weren't no
(28:19):
good at business, but they were, so it would have
been a lot higher than that. But when you hear
about the most prominent black business district, you're actually hearing
about the second generation of people that were here, not
the first. The first generation did make quite a bit
of money, but the rebuild of Greenwood.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Is actually what made the most.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And then it was in the green book for the
Negro motorists.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It was a part of the Chittling circuit, so Nat King, Cole,
Billie Holliday, they all used to come perform here.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
So second generation is when Greenwood actually ended up growing.
So it went from one hundred and ninety seven businesses
to two hundred and thirty eight, from thirty six city
blocks to forty city blocks. So most people just think
it was all three nineteen twenty one, but it was
actually that second generation that grew out. Those buildings are
that's some of the only ones that are still around.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
For back then that used to be a knack then.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
All right, so we're gonna go on the other side,
check out some of the businesses and then we'll what
what what breaks that just got that few years ago?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Was it?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I was on the ground, the ground, it just leaves over.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
If the second generation was prosperous more then the first.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
What happened? Just the freeway, that highway? What's the devastation?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yep?
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Domain, So the leadst the legal So this time they
used legislation.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Legal law. The demolished the second generation. So the reason
they couldn't actually fight that Urban.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Renewal was a federal program that gave each city the
right to put a highway wherever they wanted. Uh, the
irony is our mayor, now his grandfather is the put
that highway here. He decided he wanted it there. So
back then they had to pay thirty percent of your
property value, at least thirty percent, so you would get
thirty percent of what your property was worth. But if
(30:13):
you didn't take the money, they were gonna tear down anyway.
So it was a lout to take the money or not.
But that thirty percent is also just enough for you
to go rent another space but not actually buy one.
And so by putting that highway there and turn it up,
they did what they couldn't do the first time, which was.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Take the land owner ship away.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
So once the land was taken from the people, there
was no way for them to rebuild. And since Greenwood's
second generation, that has not been a black on gas
station since then. He just got the first black on
grocery store two years ago, or there's not been a
black on hotel here or anything like that. So these
are the ones that were burned. This is all one
(30:49):
hundred and ninety seven of them. It does have a
US Federal post office here, so technically to burn the
Greenwoods should have been a federal crime. It was not
tried as a federal crime. But if you would have
burned a post office today, you are going.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
To the fix. There's quite a few hotels on here.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Fourteen different hotels in Greenwood the first time, and then
they had sixteen.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
The second time.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Barry Jones' parents had a private school, and then Madam C. J.
Walker had a beauty parlor here. It actually used to
be right underneath where the highway is too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And then what else.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
This is a list of the black doctors with practice
in this area up until two thousand and then it
was two thousand and six. We didn't have this many
black doctors in the entire city until two thousand and six.
So Greenwood had it first. How many have y'all ever
been to a black owned hospital?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Don't look he there? Yeah, I didn't even know this
was a thing. That's wrong. Okay, well, yeah you an.
S Pristill Memorial was the first hospital they had here,
and then it was more than the second time. But
if you're from the South, we call it Moton, then
it ain't Morton to us. Been my favorite. They would
have had a waffle house down here. I don't know
why I love wafe house what I do? It would
(31:57):
have been right where that white van is over there.
I was Cameron Street. So once they rebuilt.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
It, they put it there, and then the highway toy
up Camon Street.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
All right, who else is gonna hear? Jackson undertaking company?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
That is actually Michael Jackson's family. Tito Jackson comes here
a few times a year. That's Joe Jackson's uncle. Wish
they'd have found that out with Michael was still here,
because maybe he had pulled up it actually is still
functioning now though it's called Jack's Funeral Service now, but
that one used to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
What else.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Couston had their own libraries here, Cotton Clubs.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So listen to Knox.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
He was actually from Harlem, so he brought his guy
the Club from Harlem to here and.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
He plans for a memorial for the second generation of
success in Tosa. I want to get your name for
Victor lu Lucker's son, Lucas Lucasen.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Okay, Victor Lucasen.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
This is Malik from Malik's Bookshelf bringing the world together
with books, culture and community. And when I see an author,
especially a non fiction author, I like to get some
words about their book and just what inspired you to
write Built from the Fire.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So Victor Lucason tell us.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
About this wonderful new book that was released.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
By Random House, Built from the Fire.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah, so I'm Victim. I'm the author Built from the Fire.
My book just came out in May, and it's really
a full account of the Greenwood's history. You're gonna learn
about not only the race massacre, that traumatic event, but
also the building up of Greenwood. You know, how they
created this eating of the western Oklahoma how they rebuild
it after the race masker, what's going on there now?
Afi followed several families for generations across Greenwood, so you
(33:42):
really get that generation of saga and learn about black
folks doing for themselves, working together, building you know something
that we all now idolizing Revere in Black Wall Street.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's really what this story is about.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
It's about black success, Black holid aarity, black community.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Why is that important?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
If people know this history and learns in what happened
here at Tasa Oklahom.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
I mean, one reason it's important is because none of
us got taught at in school. You know, I didn't
learn this in school. My friends didn't learn it. I
didn't need you know what I mean? But this is,
this is this is vital American history, not only because
of the race Master, but because of that idea of
black success. We don't get taught about black success when
we're young people in America, and so I think getting
those kind of lessons two people of all ages is vital.
(34:23):
And that's why there's a book, as I said, really
focuses on the black experience in Greenwood, the way this
folks were able to overcome so many obstacles across generations,
and so are so are today We're near agree with
right now, and we saw basually are facing here in
this community right now that folks are working to overcome.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You know, I just found out that.
Speaker 6 (34:43):
The Massacre from nineteen twenty one that they rebuilt and
it was the imminent domain that destroyed the prosperity in
the building of you know, after the nineteen twenty one
touch on that for me a little bit because I
just found that out today.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Yeah, So Greenwood was rebuilt after the race of Massacre
had a second heyday thirties, forties and fifties. For the
nineteen sixties, the government put a highway right in the
middle of the neighborhood. It is still there today. And
also with emminent domain, they took hundreds of properties from
black landowners in that era. And so my book goes
through in great detail all that I'm folded that kind
of second theft of the neighborhood in the book.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I call it slower burn, that.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
Second destruction and the strain point I understanding that history
too to really understand why black communities are the way
they are today across the United States.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I got one more.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
Question because you probably get this question sometimes, why bring
up this old history when this is twenty twenty three
and we should just move on. Can you talk about
how you address those types of questions, Why we bring
it up old history and bringing up killing off the
band aid of old wounds when we should be just
(35:56):
focusing on to now and getting along now. And how
can we get along if we keep ripping off the
band aid?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
About these my slinkers and I mean my singers.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Yeah, Well, the first thing you got to understand is
that American history is.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Not a line, it's a circle. You know.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
We live in cycles in this community, in this country,
and so when you learn about Greenwood, a lot of ways,
you're learning about some of the obits we may be
facing in the future. The race masker was violent, yes,
but we have racer of violence going on right now
in America. That kind of violence and hatred, it can
always re emerge. So there's no way we can bury
the history because we're always dealing with it in this country.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
Absolutely, and we need to be mindful that this can
be repeated if we don't learn the lessons from yesterday.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean, there's things that's.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Going around right now and just systematic and discriminating in
people and gentrification and destruction of our culture and our history.
It's still happening today, banned books.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So you know, give me your.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Final thoughts and from my audience on Belief's bookshelf.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Well, you know, I think learning, learning our through is vital,
Learning true history is vital. There's so many challenges to
our true history going on right now across the United States.
So whether you read my book or anybody else's book,
that's accurate, that's true, that's courageous. That's want people to
embrace that true Black history because that's all we got.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
You heard it first hand, so you gotta pick your
copy up. Built from the Fire by Victor Lucason.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I gotta get it right, get it tight.
Speaker 6 (37:25):
Thanks for listening to Malik's bookshelf with topics on the
shelf are books, culture, and community.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Be sure to subscribe and leave me a review. Check
out my instagram at Maleak Books. See you next time.
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