February 9, 2023 • 33 mins
The Thinkers whine about Hollywood before launching into a debate on the pros and cons of a having a nationwide child militia to protect Americans from school shootings. Then, hunter and author Mark Kenyon joins The Thinkers to discuss how to kill animals and survive in the deep bush.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to The Man Thinker's podcast, a show that
forges a new roadmap for the modern man on how
to best live life. Prepared to get your mind blown
by two guys with their big mouths and tongues, never
talk to you, no art. Then we could focus on
math and science, that we could be the best country
(00:23):
again like we were, instead of making little paintings and
making my movies. Shut up about your movies. Have you
seen The Fableman? I thought it was excellent. Even Spielberg's
life is inspiring, and it really is. He just loved
movies from the get go. He is a genius filmmaker
and he and he shows how he became that absolutely
and then and it's not all perfect. No it's not
(00:43):
his family, yeah absolutely, but you know what a real
family looks like. It doesn't you're telling those people what
to do. Imagine if you got to direct Michelle Williams.
She's so talented, she really is. She gets into characters,
so gorgeous she is. She can't do no no, no,
she's I mean, yeah, you're glued to them because she's
she's captivating. She's captivating, which I love. And you can
(01:06):
see that she brings something else. It's not just that
she's a pretty phase. Well, the camera captures it. The
camera cameras when there's something happening inside and storytelling, it's
just so beautiful. But Hollywood, it's just shove it down
my throat. Oh, I'm a Jewish family. It's been a victim. Yeah, really,
Spielberg is a victim. You're a Jewish family. Jewish family
(01:28):
movies about it. I guess several of my screenplays were
about it, but in a different, it's different angle though
you read them. I did break into your not break
in your computer was oupen one day, and I sort
of read the one. What was it called crushing pumpkins
and killing towelheads. Yeah, yeah, that one was dark, Yes
it was. Yeah. I didn't like it, but I like
that I didn't get wanting to satisfy everybody. Yeah, okay,
I don't want to satisfy. I don't want to happening.
(01:51):
I think it's complicated. It seemed like it might have
been racist too. I don't know, complicated storytelling. Well, you know,
a lot of it's older, so I could change some
of that stuff. But I'm not going to change it
just because some PC liberal wants me to change it absolutely,
But if you have any notes, I would say less hateful,
maybe not going to do more concise, like it felt
like all over the place. I didn't know what that's cool.
(02:11):
What's the central story to just pumpkins and killing towerheads.
I think it's just you know, hurting, you know, the
main character gets hurt and then he gets revenge. Classic. Yeah,
I mean that's cool. I like that general archetype. I
just don't know. Thank you, heank you you know. Anyway, anyway,
we've got a great episode ahead of us. Mark Kenyon
is here. It's going to teach us a lot about
the outdoors and shooting animals. So get excited for that.
(02:32):
But first, thinkers, some somber news thinkers. Another school shooting
happened today in boise Ida. Boise I thought it was
in Florida. No, that was last week. That was the
other show. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah right. Sorry. They kind
of just like blend into each other now, so I forget, Well,
they have it so frequently, so it's it's almost kind
of one technically mass shooting. You know, it's like one shooting, right,
World War One and World War two. Well, actually history
(02:54):
now is saying, well, there's just one war, and all
these shootings are essentially just one big shooting, right exactly.
Sort of numb to all of it at this point,
and it's almost as like no effect on me emotionally. Yeah,
me neither. I mean, but you know, not everyone is
as lucky as some people. They don't have the privilege
of being unaffected by you know, children murdering other children,
and and that's recognize my privilege there. Yes, Well, good
for you to to say that adults, because adults murder
(03:17):
each other get murdered by child, you know everyone, age
groups are all sort of murdering each other. That's the thing.
And that's and that's it's very distinct about this giant
shooting that's going on, Yes, this wave of er exactly. Yeah,
it's almost like one murder. You could kind of say
it's one giant murder. That to me takes the worry
out of it so much when you realize it's just
one nothing has changed, right, it's just one shooting, so
(03:38):
you know, we really don't have to worry about it
as much. That's true. And it's a good point to
to mention the adult thing, you know, because it isn't.
It's in the process of killing kids. There's also adults
that die, teachers, teachers, you know. Security, Well, the security
are just smart enough not to go into the school,
and then the police off always stay out, which is smart,
very smart. They don't have any crazy kids in there.
Why would we go in there. Yeah, it's gonna be
(03:59):
nuts exactly. Click. I wish we could keep it to
just kids, but you can't because you know, when these
guns are so powerful, rifles just the best, and they're
the best and the best of the guns, so they're
going to be hitting anybody. Yeah, I mean they just
mow people that. Remember World War One one of the
best wars, you know, when it comes to mowing people
down with machine guns. That's what. They didn't really have
much strategy outside of getting out of the foxhole. Yeah,
(04:21):
it was build a trench and then at some point
blow a whistle and everybody just goes and gets You
hear the whistle from the other side, you're gonna just
gonna start shooting, right exactly. That is not the best
when to shoot, and you know when to charge. But
that's a good proof of how you know, people are
evolving and getting smarter is that. I think for the
most part, we are smart enough now not to go
after our enemies and blow a whistle because the whistle
(04:43):
is gonna say that. You don't hear whistles that much anymore,
not in the context of war, certainly, not in the
context of war, context of recess and music. Sure there
were some excellent whistlers back in the day. Yeah, yeah,
sitting by the dock of the bay. Sitting on the
dock of bay. Yeah, right, is that okay? Yeah, yeah,
it's you know, I think that's uh. I don't think that.
I think it's a white guy. No, definitely, not a
(05:03):
white guy. I think it is. It might be, it
might be, and that's enough to say it is. You know,
a World War One was a great war, and a
lot of innovative technology came out of World War One.
I mean, it's really good, big holes, guys. What happened
to our ability to make holes? I haven't seen a
good hole. I haven't seen a good hole in making holes.
And that's because he knows, you know, he said he
(05:25):
looks back in history and he says, when we're humans
at our peak, and it's when we were digging hole,
digging holes, because you look at some of the structures
that we have. Well there's a leaning tower of pizza. Yeah,
because it's not working that well. Exactly why I build
up when you could open down. That's how I describe
making a hole. It's just opening down. Yeah, I'm opening
down down there. I've heard of opening up. What is
opening down? Meld hole? Bigee? If you can find some
(05:47):
rare metals, so you could get your own big battery, guys,
dig a hole in your backyard. See if there's this
could be huge, you know. And this recent tragedy though,
it got me and Dan thinking about how to prevent
school shootings in the future, you know, and that brings
us to today's big question. Do all women wish they
were their own feces cure aunt? Would children be safer
(06:09):
if everyone's stopped having Sejo Biden be the first ghost press?
Washing your hands actually bad on the house is so scary?
Should children be forced to carry guns? That's really a
really interesting question. And think about Little Tommy, Little Susie.
You know those are kids names they're giving handguns to
go to school with with them every morning. Do you
(06:30):
think that that the press kid who you know they're
bullying and stuff, and he's contemplating murdering everyone. You think
he's going to go through with it if he sees, oh,
they're they're packing heat as well, of course, not if
he knows that his classmates will just light them up
before he can even cause any carnage. He's not gonna
do anything. That's how I think it always. I mean,
look what's going on with the nukes right now, exactly right,
No one's gonna do it because you know that you're
(06:50):
going to get exactly even though I do think we
should do it, who should we new he's a difference. Well,
I mean, I think that's pretty important that you're talking about,
like North Korea you're talking about, yes, yeah, because look,
you don't. We don't want to get on the bargaining
table with those guys that we didn't trump do that
and he was doing that was a mistake, no, well
from for the Democrats that they didn't that they weren't there. Okay, Well,
(07:12):
I think it's what I would call mutually assured destruction thinkers,
just like nuclear arms races, you know, and it's what
we did in the Cold War right with nuclear arms,
and it's what we need to do with the children.
In order to stop this war on children, we need
to create child soldiers. You arm yourself up right to
fight for peace, armed to the teeth. Think about how
safe kids would be and how they would feel at
school if they know that their school district had its
(07:35):
very own child militia, right, and it's important. Thinkers, guys,
we would train these kids and the school. I mean,
first we'll take them to shooting ranges, you know, and
obstacle courses and get them, you know, feeling comfortable and
confident around guns. I mean, what we could do is
we take them out of school, got it, and just
have them trained. I like that train hard, Yeah, because
(07:57):
they ends weekends, weekends and nights, weekends and night paramilitary
trains even do on weekends and nights. What are they
going to spend their time doing anyway? That would be
so mean? Movies shut up. First of all, the movies
out there right now are tarre so bad? They all
have this left us as really stupid lessons. Stop trying
to preach to me. Did you see everything everywhere? Everywhere?
All I want? Well? I thought that was kind. It
(08:17):
was so really good that it was really good. I mean,
first of all. The reason I liked it is that
it kind of bucked though what it was going to
be exactly, and they were mixing the different genres and
it was cool to see like you know, older, yeah,
like like and just different perspective, more diverse casting, you
know what I mean. But it actually it's Hollywood woke.
Now you're just like, what is where's the white protect
(08:40):
just like you know, a superhero. That movie was really
good though, it was and it was cool. It was
very funny, it was very touching. I laughed, I cried, yeah,
and um, you know it was a little long, but
it was the right length for that movie exactly. I
think it's excellent. I really did, and I really hope
that I ridiculous stuff at the end. They shouldn't make
another movie. Just end their careers and shut up, shut
(09:02):
up about it. Back to the kids. These kids, they're
going to be training. They don't have anything to do
at night anyway. I mean, they're crying saying I want
to watch more TVO? What how about this? How about
you run through an obstacle course? Did you just call
it t V t VU? What the hell is that?
It's what you record TV on TV? I don't know
TV al right, what doesn't matter to know the technology,
so you don't have to record anything anymore. It's all
(09:23):
like streaming, isn't it. You know, I cut the chords
on the streaming. I cut the chord on the cable,
and I've cut the chord on the streaming. And you know,
it's a known fact that extracurricular activities are instrumental in
keeping kids active and keep them off the disgusting murderer.
What we're saying here, thinkers, is that teaching kids had
to kill their classmates, that's actually going to prevent them
from killing their classmates. I think that's a smart thing
(09:44):
to do like that. That's I think is what's going
on in these kids heads. They're saying, I don't know
how to do this, right, I don't know what I'm
supposed to be doing, and say, well, if you get
them good aggressive mindset, right, you know. And the teachers,
you know, think of how much less day to day
stress they would have if they knew there students were
coming to their aid in there in a crisis by
carrying loads of guns. Exactly. If a teacher is trying
(10:05):
to get kids attention, now they have an extra tool
if she's clicking on the lights, and then just fire
a gun in the air, saying and then the kids
are strapped, right, they pull out of there, gonna standoff.
It's good. It gets the blood, get nine moving. And
then you've got the principle. Come in with a rifle
and sit down, teach. Yeah, exactly, blow your head off.
There you go, and I think, now you have a
gun pointed at everybody in the word eight fifteen in
(10:27):
the morning. Just got the blood. What a way to
start your day, I think so, especially if you're a child.
And you know what, I was thinking that we could
even model our training program off of the child armies
in Africa who have been so successful, a lot of
success there. Come on, I mean you have to give Look,
it's not everybody's cup of tea. It is important to
adapt to what's happening in the world. You want to
(10:47):
be a global leader. Absolutely, see what's going on. Child
militia's what. We gotta have one, and we're gonna have them.
Should have the strongest one, exactly. Mean South Sudan is
over seventeen thousand child soldiers at the ready. Just think
of all the school shootings, those seventeen thousand kids could
prevent if they were in America, if there were American children.
Has there even been a school shooting in South Sudan.
I don't even know if they go to school there
because I think it's such a war torn country. But
(11:09):
if though, if those children weren't were fighting with disregarding that,
they wouldn't be shooting schools exactly, and disregarding if there's
school or whatever, it doesn't matter. There's no school shootings,
and that's what's important, is shootings. We should mimic some
of that behavior exactly. I have to give you a
lot of credit here, George, because I know you're not
a gunsman. Here's the thing. I'm not what I would
call a gunsman, but I do recognize the power of
(11:33):
fear and what motivation really is at the end of
the day, And what is the highest motivation in life
then to not die. That is the motivation. So if
we instill that fear and that motivation into all of
our children, and we can do that by using guns,
I think the world would be a better place. You're
going to have a really strong, healthy adults, well adjusted,
well adjusted with a good mindset of how to stay alive.
And it's because it's a tough world and it's only
(11:54):
getting tougher way exactly, AI is going to listen. Guys, well,
then you start arming AI. And that's a really interesting
idea because sort of a RoboCop situation, I would say terminator, Well,
but that didn't go well for us, but then we
sort of turned things around. But that that was like
after Sarah Connor came in from the future and ship like,
that's I don't want to I don't want to have
to put that on Sarah Connor's plate where we need
but it's destiny one woman to have to go back.
(12:17):
She accomplished it. She did, and that's why I'm not worried.
People say, well, you've given everybody guns. Isn't that going
to cause a problem. It's like, the problem is going
to happen. It's already written. Exactly. Arm up the kids now,
so when they're adults, you've got a bunch of John
Connors on your hand, you have more of a chance
of having a John Connor on your hand if every
kid knows how to handle a gun. And that's I
think it's really overlooked. It really is. People aren't talking
(12:37):
about that. By the way, the terminat Our franchise is
so good. It is a fantastically and talk about protagonists, yep,
I mean just an incredible performance. I forgot the actress's name.
Linda Hamilton's Linda Hamilton's, Yes, fantasy and she's so good.
She's strong, she's beautiful and beautiful. Yeah, you know, and
that's why we don't love this is before right, and
then Lynda Hamilton's saving John Connor and protecting him so
(13:01):
he can grow up to become a modern day Jesus.
There's just no argument against giving kids guns at this point.
I mean, that's what I'm saying. Watched Terminator two and
then you tell me your kids should have a gun.
I mean, you would be insane. You would be an
insane person. I'm probably gonna go home watch that movie.
Do you want to go to the movies this weekend? Yes?
I do? Okay with me though, let me I will
get back to we should really just focus on what's
(13:22):
the task at hand right now. You just said you
want to go to the movies, but then when I
but then when I presented it with me, you kind
of hesitated, And so I'm just kind of wondering, Well,
I'm just trying to think of my schedule, you know,
because I might only be available at like six am,
six am. I just feel like every time I want
to do like something social with you and kind of
like bond as friends like you just kind of like
skirt skirt. Well, you know, it's just I have I
(13:43):
have a lot of stuff on my plate. You have
nothing on outside of this podcast, friends, a lot of stuff.
I'm trying to get things going. Okay, you know whatever,
I think, if we just flood our school system with guns,
we take the power away from the guns. Everybody has
a gun. Nobody has a gun. Yes, now that we've
solved that problem, obviously, rate the podcast, you know, follow
(14:04):
us on the Socialist Guys and get ready for a
kick ass episode. Yourself a gun and get your kid
a gun. But first, advertisements, and these ads are goods.
They're so good because we're actually where our numbers are
slowly but surely creeping up, which means the products are
getting slightly better, quietly slightly. You know, Dan, if you're
(14:27):
not up on your survival skills in today's world, you're dead.
You're dead meat. Okay, And speaking of dead meat, we
have just a really important guest, I think for our
thinkers out there, because this guy will teach you how
to get the real dead meat and get it into
your body. We're talking about and we're talking to hunting
guru Mark Kenyan. This guy's a podcaster, he is a
(14:50):
certified dear Steward. He's a published aufor Revolutionist. He's an
entrepreneur changed changing the game in so many ways. He's
the host of the Meat your podcast, Wired to Hunt,
Mark Kenyon. We're talking to Mark Kenyon, one of the
nicest He's the man. He's the man. He's a legend,
and he's such a sweet dude, such a nice guy.
And also he knows how to kill anything. He can kill.
(15:11):
That's what's the most important. Yes, I appreciate that he
was nice and down to have a conversation, but really
it's important to know that he can kill you, kill
anything at any time. So you better listen to what
he has to say. And even though I don't really
like listening, you know, I'm you know, me of a talker.
I'm more of a thinker. But this guy I'm willing
to listen to because I know he can kill me
exactly and he taught us how we can go about
(15:33):
learning how to kill not just animals but each other,
which I think is really really insightful. Absolutely, and that's
something that I think we should explore more, is should
we kill each other? Right? And when do we know
each other? And how when do we do it? How
do we do it? Mark's got a lot of that
information early informative talk especially, I think for a lot
of our listeners that are at home on their computers,
(15:54):
this guy is going to get you out in the
woods and he's really going to make you change the
way you think. So give this conversation a real hearty listen. Okay,
we are here with nationally published author, certified dear steward, podcaster,
and all around legend of the hunting and fishing community,
(16:15):
Mr Mark Kenyon. Mark, welcome to man. Thank you, thank
you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thank you, guys.
I'm excited to be here. Are you in the bush
right now? Are you out somewhere stalking a big prey?
Where are we exactly? Yeah? How are you plugged into
a power source? Yes? So, so I am not at
all times in the bush, Um I am. I'm here
at my home in Michigan in between hunts and spending
(16:38):
some time with the family. Now, when you say in
between hunts, how long does a typical hunt last for you?
And I know, I'm sure it depends on what you're hunting,
but we're talking one, two hours or like how long
until you're kind of like just stop in and say hello,
let's say hi to the deer, and then covered in
blood a little bit of both. Actually not so much
the covered in blood thing to the end. But there
are some hunts that go on that ares local. Like
(16:58):
there's small, far and different things that are close to
where I live in Michigan, where I can go out
and hunt for three or four hours in the evening.
Other times I will travel somewhere far away to Montana
or Alaska or Idaho, and I'll spend a week out there,
living out in the mountains of the woods, camped out
and hunting, you know, all day for seven days. So
it can vary a lot. And when you're hunting on
these farms, you're just putting a gun up to a
(17:20):
cow's head and pop, you know, you get a nice
pig or a cow. The farmer lets you have it.
That is how they do it in the farming world,
but no, I primarily bow hunt in Michigan. I'm hunting deer.
White tailed deer are the critter that's out here, and
so in that case, I'm out there with a bow
and you are trying to anticipate where you think deer
will be moving through, where they're heading to to feed
(17:40):
or travel to to get water or whatever might be.
And you're trying to actually set up an ambush location
up in a tree usually, and you wait for the
deer to come through and got to have them close,
and you need to know a lot about the animals
to figure out, you know, when they're going to do
certain things and why they're gonna do certain things, and then, uh,
you know, try to get a really good, clean, ethical
shot that puts me out of the ground really quick.
Let's talk about that. So when we say ethical shot
(18:02):
and you mentioned bow hunting, I would imagine is it
more difficult to land an ethical shot with a bow
or is it the same? How does it differ between
bows and guns? Both of them are very lethal, like
both of them can have a perfectly lethal, quick, clean kill,
but a bow does require more proficiency, more work. You
just simply need to spend more time practicing dialing in
(18:24):
you know, you're set up and your process for how
to do that. So some people choose to get into
bow hunting because it requires that extra work, requires that
extra depth of understanding of the entire process. So for
people that that hunting really resonates with and they want
to kind of get deeper into it and force themselves
to learn more, to get better, to spend more time
out there, bow hunting is a great way to that.
(18:45):
And where would one buy a bow and arrow? Because
I've looked at all the stores around me, Ralph's Whole Foods,
and if you ask for a bow and arrow, they
don't know they don't have it in in in in
their stores. And I look at you like you're crazy.
Your shot in the wrong section of them all. There
are like big box stores that sell this kind of stuff,
like Cabela's or Bass Pro shops. There's actually some places
(19:08):
like this in I know for sure, in Manhattan, in Brooklyn. Yeah,
hunting is picking up a lot of interest in some
of these urban areas, and it's cool to see that
popping up. I'm a native New Yorker and uh, you know,
the Central Park is huge and there's a lot of game.
You know, we got raccoons. This sounds like a joke
to you guys, It sounds like a joke, but it's
actually real. Urban hunting is becoming a thing. Uh not
(19:29):
so much in like downtown Manhattan, Central Park, but like
Long Island, they're hunting deer. I actually hunted outside of Washington,
d C. Last year, in people's backyards because there are
incredibly high deer numbers in these neighborhoods and outside these cities,
and there's there's no way to control it. So they
could either hire some kind of like company that controls
(19:49):
animal populations, or you know, there are hunters who would
be willing to buy a hunting license and to do
this in a careful and responsible way and then have
that meat to feed their families or donate to homeless shelters.
And it's a way to deal with a kind of
an animal management problem in a way that you know,
is a win win for more people. And here here's
what I like about hunting, because even though I've never
done it, I'm too scared to do it. You know,
(20:11):
these deer, they get it in their heads that they
could just have as many of them as they want.
But then we've got men, human men go out there
and bam, put an arrow in them and say, you
can't do that, you can't have so many of you.
This is a man's world, baby. I mean, that's the
point of hunting, right, is to kind of put down
the animals, to show them that it's a man's world.
I think you're slightly off as far as as why
(20:32):
we do it, you know, So I'm gonna I'm gonna
offer you, guys an invitation if ever you want to
see the real thing. I would love to meet up
with you somewhere and give you some give you some lessons.
Let's go um downtown Manhattan subway stations, start shooting some rats. Dan.
We're not in this to to push down on the
eagle of the collective deer population out there. It's really
(20:53):
it's it's really to acquire food that's as about as
organic and natural and cloth to the land as you
can possibly get it. And it's a way to connect
with um, you know, with with a part of what
makes us human. This is gonna get slightly deep and
maybe weird, but now we're into that. We're into that.
We were our bodies were built. We as humans evolves
(21:15):
around this need to acquire food from the wild, Right,
that's what we're doing for tens and tens of thousands
of years, and so these days, though we're largely divorced
from that, right, we're not very close to our food.
Not many folks are still going out there into the
woods and fields and having to acquire their food themselves.
And once you do that, I think a lot of
people feel like an innate connection to it. Almost feels
(21:36):
like coming home. It's something like all of a sudden,
feels very familiar when you do it, but if you
don't have any context, no experience with it, it can
sound like a weird thing. Yeah, I mean that's sort
of touches on what I've heard a lot of hunters say.
Maybe you'd agree with this mark, like, like there's a
spiritual aspect to hunting, right, I mean the connection to
all things. Like I do a ton of ayahuasca, don
aahuasca and psychedelic mushrooms every day for three straight years,
(21:56):
and I think that's super similar to hunting. Because here's
the thing, even though we're doing different things, both practices
teach you that you are part of a bigger hole. Yeah.
I don't know about psychedelics and whatnot, but I could
definitely speak to that. There is a like a lion
king circle of life kind of connection that you tap into.
You absolutely do have, and some people would described as spiritual,
(22:17):
some people would describe it. I don't know, many different ways,
but but yes, like you, you go from being an
outside observer of the natural world, like if you're on
a hike, you're hiking through the woods, you're observing it.
If you go into that same landscape as a hunter,
you are not a part of that landscape, You're part
of the process. You are now a cog in that
wheel of life, and it feels completely different. You look
(22:38):
at things completely different. You recognize the seriousness of life
and death in a very different way when you are,
you know, forced to confront your choice to eat meat,
when you have to do it yourself. You know, some
folks that don't hunt might think that hunters look at
life carelessly because we are killing an animal. So you
might think like, oh gosh, they just willy nearly kill
an animal. They don't care about that animal. That's that's
(23:00):
what I thought, That's what you thought. So My argument
and my experiences is that's the opposite. Rather, you realize
that it is so much more important and so much
more sacred when you have to look that in the
eyes like you have to do it yourself. You have
to make that decision and say, if I'm going to
take this life, I recognize this life is sacred and special,
and I better darn well do it the right way.
Value this thing correctly, use it correctly, use it for
(23:22):
the right things. And you take it very very seriously.
So you know, I swerve out of the way to
not hit a squirrel in the road, I I that's
not hunting. That's not hunting, because I've hit a lot
of deer. And I was like, you know what, I'm
an excellent marksman. I'm very intrigued by hunting, you know
(23:44):
because as I said, and and and Mark, I don't
know if you were being facetious before, but that that
invitation to hunt with you. Listen, you take me hunting.
I'll take you on an Ayawaska retreat. You know. We
it's a trade off. It's a trade off. But here's
the thing. When you make the kill and you are
processing the animal, how much time do you have like
what if your way out in bush and that's a
ton of meat, Like, how much time do you have
before the animal starts to you know, the meat starts
(24:05):
to go bad or it starts to attract scavengers? I mean, like,
how how are you just pressed for times? Does that
not at me trying to george as a scavenger? Well,
you're not gonna go out there and steal your meat.
That's the kind of well, that's the kind of hunting
you would do. I think Danny's you would just kind
of hang out smart some of the smartest animals. Well, yeah, okay,
you're a vulture. So that's that's and I I take
that with pride. Thank you. It's a compliment, uh to
(24:26):
the question. It's it depends on the temperature, that's the
big thing. So if it's really hot outside, then things
do get sped up. But you know most places across
the country in the fall it's pretty cool. So I mean,
you have ours. The first thing you want to do
when you come up on that animals, you want to
remove the entrails, the guts, and that's a process takes
a couple of minutes and once that's out, like that's
the big hot thing that's inside of an animal, and
(24:48):
most of the insets removed, there's nothing heating up the
animal from the inside anymore, and so that meat actually
develops kind of like a dry rind almost along the
outside of the meat. Mark. Can we just take a
take a second. I think I might puke. But anyway,
so guts, they they're hot, and there's a rind like
a parmesan cheese or something. Is that what you're saying?
What about the organs? Do you eat the organ meats?
So the only organ I've eat consistently is the heart.
(25:10):
Heart of heart. Wow, that's so cool. That's when you
truly know you've dominated the animal. I'm eating your I mean,
that's why you're doing it, right. Come on, I'm gonna
against say it's no domination. It's nothing to do that.
You don't fit right into the heart and let the
blood drip down your arm and say I am a man,
this is my world. You've never done that. I feel
like that would play really well for like a viral
(25:31):
Instagram post for everyone who's against hunting to have the
animal they want. Yeah, I mean I think a lot
of people. You're a huge proponent of conservation right, And
I think a lot of people probably naively think, oh, well,
hunters don't care about that at all, But it's actually
quite the opposite, especially for ethical hunters. Why don't you
talk a little bit about that. Yeah, well, it absolutely is,
and I think it's twofold. I would say, on one hand,
(25:52):
if you hunt, you are naturally going to spend a
lot of time in the outdoors. You're gonna spend a
lot of time watching wildlife, exploring beautiful land escapes, and
so spending that much time outside, you can't do that
and not develop a love for these places and animals
and an appreciation for them. And with that comes a
sense of obligation, like, hey, if I'm going to go
out here and enjoy these places and hunt for these animals,
(26:15):
I think that comes with an obligation to want to
and I feel like you might have to give back
to even those scales. And then I would say, secondly,
specifically in the hunting side, you know, as you get
more and more into hunting, you also realize, like it's
it's more than just going out there and taking an animal.
It's carefully managing this resource, and you're doing it in
a very carefully manage regulated way to make sure that
(26:36):
these animal populations and to make sure that these wild
places are in balance and making sure they will be
around in perpetuity. And so if you do that kind
of stuff long enough, you're gonna realize, like, Okay, this
stuff isn't here by accident, This isn't here just by happenstance.
The only reason why we still have wild places, the
only reason we still have wild animals, is because people
were willing to stand up and fight for these things.
(26:57):
They're willing to give back. They're willing to give their
time and their money and their energy to protect public lands.
And you know, historically hunters have been one of the
most active groups in that because of this very deep
connection that we have with the resource. You know, it's
so complicated these the national lands because you, on one hand, yes,
you want to keep them beautiful. On the other hand,
(27:18):
think about how much money you know they can make
if there were condos, Like what do you think about
something like that? Would you be would you be that
upset if you saw people making some money? Not a
fan of that idea. What's unfortunate is like, that's not
that far off. There are a lot of people who
do see these public lands as you know, you know,
they see dollar signs when they see these public lands.
So there's actually a lot of politicians who have been
(27:39):
for saying, oh, this is a waste of money that
we have this stuff. We should either be logging it
all down or we should be selling it and taking
those profits and putting it towards something else. Any specific
politicians that we want to name it call out right
now as problems, probably Ted Cruz. Yeah, actually, and you
could always just say Ted no matter why. I always
know Ted's on the wrong side. And that's what I
love about him is that everyone agrees how much they
(28:00):
hate him. It's great. It's a great method to get
your name out there. Yeah. You know, I'm not a
political kind of guy. I'm a right in the middle
of the road independent. But I will say that more
recently there's been some bad actors on the Republican side
when it comes to public lands. I'd love to see
that change, which is terrible because you think Republicans, you know,
they love guns, you know, we should be like, hey,
conserving should be as a hunter and hunting and fishing
(28:24):
in the outdoors being a big part of my life.
When I look at who and how I'm going to vote,
those things factor into it, and I'm gonna over generalize here.
The right side of the aisle tends to be obviously
more in line with hunters on firearm rights, more in
line with them on opportunity to hunt. But on the
flip side, they're very bad historically traditionally when it comes
(28:44):
to public lands, when it comes to the environment, when
it comes to you know, pollution, climate change, anything like that.
So all those things I would prefer to be good on.
On the other side, the left side, obviously they're tougher
on firearm rights. There's more anti hunting kind of sentiment
on that side, so that's not for a hunter and angler.
But on the flip side, the less side, i'le traditionally
is much better on public lands, climate, the environment. So
(29:07):
there's no there's no easy way to go. If you
are kind of in my world as someone who cares
about that kind of stuff. Well here and you talk though, Mark,
do you have any political ambitions or is that something
maybe down the line or something you know, if you
want to announce a presidential run, do it here, do
it here, do it. I'm man thinkers. Uh so no,
no political ambitions, but I would love to have a
larger impact in influencing a lobbyist. So not so much
(29:30):
a lobbyist, but I could see myself, you know, continuing
to do more and more advocacy. Mark. If um, if
George and I came hunting with you, who would die first?
I hate to say it, my friend, but I would
probably pick you. There you go. See you can't handle
you can't handle one. Life gets real Dan. That's the thing. Well, Mark,
if you want to take us out in Michigan to
hunt and kill me there, I'm happy to do it.
(29:52):
One last question for you, Mark, and this is just,
you know, just hit us with the God's honest truth.
You know, your content very educational, very informative. But do
you think that part of the reason why your content
has been so successful is that you know, people just
kind of intuitively since that the earth is sort of
screwed and the next you know, five to ten years,
we're going to be in apocalypse times and if you
don't know how to hunt, you are shipped out of luck. Like,
(30:14):
do you think there's any truth to that? I think
that there are probably a few people who have thought,
you know what, I better get my survivalist skills up.
There was a huge boost and hunter numbers during COVID. Yep. Absolutely,
people just realizing, like, I better get my ship together.
You know, BI will take care of myself. So I
hope there's no zombie apocalypse coming, but if there is,
I feel better prepared than than most. Maybe have you
(30:36):
ever had like close encounters with other apex predators while
you're out there? Uh? Ish? Like I had a grizzly bear,
a mom and cub grizzly outside my tent like sixty
yards away in Alaska one time, and you just shot
him straight in the heart to get him out of there.
I just yelled at her, get out of here bear,
and she listened, and she listened. That now that I
can do. Well, that's what we try to do. Yes, see,
Dan and I do that on the regular. We just
(30:57):
yelled at each other our guests. Tends to work. I
think if I walked out into nature and started talking
to and yelling at all the animals, I would be
the dominant species and that would make me feel good.
It would help the ego. That is a viral video
right there. Okay, let's do that, so when we come
to Michigan, you don't have to teach me any of
the hunting stuff. I'm just gonna go out there and
yell and lecture that that's perfect for both of us.
This sounds like great, Well, thank you, Mark, it was
(31:18):
great to meet you. All right, nice to me. You
wom in all. I mean, he's kind of just the
manliest of men, you know, he's one of one, the
true he is one of one. He's the manliest of men.
And after talking to him, I feel manly, which is
hard for you. It's that that doesn't come naturally to you. Well,
it's I mean, it's I think. I think this brought
it out of me, his natural nature, his own nature,
(31:42):
true His natural nature brought out my true nature, which
is that I am a strong man. I can go
out into the woods and yell at animals and feel
better about myself. And that's all it takes. And you know,
if if that's how close you are to feeling like
a man, you're basically already there. Absolutely just gotta get
out of the city. I really think we should take
him up on that, on that offer to take Sunny Like.
I absolutely, but I'm serious I don't know. I don't
(32:02):
know if you would you'll actually go through with it.
I mean, I can go, but I would I think
I would do it my way. You know. Look, I
appreciate all this bow and arrow Gina Davis stuff that
that's pretty cool. But me, I want a handgun. I
want to feel safe and secure to protect my family,
and I just want to shoot any animal that I see.
Because he's saying, you know, he bumped into a grizzly
bear and he yelled at it. Great, I want to
do that too, But I'm going to take that shot
(32:23):
with a handgun takedown a grizzly Maybe it would a
bunch of a bunch of shots. Yeah, I probably have
to kind of like John Wick. Oh yeah, oh man,
that'd be cool if we could be like John Wick.
Do some John Wick stuff in the bush. Now, do
we have the budget for my heart to send us
to Michigan or do we have to pay for it ourselves? No,
there's no way they would pay. We'd have to we
get these implements out there, okay, Because I think feel
(32:45):
the power of sand. Harness, the power of harness before
your next hunt. Harness, the power of sand, be your
own wind swept dune. That's a beautiful sentence. Stand because
it's a beautiful pill. I actually really do think you
do have some promise in Hollywood as a writer. After
hearing sentences like that, I gave it up because they
were wrong, but I would be willing to go back.
But I do hate Hollywood. I love stories, hate Hollywood.
(33:07):
I did watch seven movies yesterday and they were all contest.
Movies are so great. I love movies. Great episode. Can
you thank you so much? Keep thinking? Okay, just always
be thinking until the next time that you're listening to us,
and then start thinking again after you're done with the episode.
You're listening to The Man Thinker's podcast, a show that
forges a new roadmap for the modern man on how
to best live life. Prepared to get your mind blown
by two guys with their big mouths and tongues, never
talk to you, no art. Then we could focus on
math and science, that we could be the best country
(00:23):
again like we were, instead of making little paintings and
making my movies. Shut up about your movies. Have you
seen The Fableman? I thought it was excellent. Even Spielberg's
life is inspiring, and it really is. He just loved
movies from the get go. He is a genius filmmaker
and he and he shows how he became that absolutely
and then and it's not all perfect. No it's not
(00:43):
his family, yeah absolutely, but you know what a real
family looks like. It doesn't you're telling those people what
to do. Imagine if you got to direct Michelle Williams.
She's so talented, she really is. She gets into characters,
so gorgeous she is. She can't do no no, no,
she's I mean, yeah, you're glued to them because she's
she's captivating. She's captivating, which I love. And you can
(01:06):
see that she brings something else. It's not just that
she's a pretty phase. Well, the camera captures it. The
camera cameras when there's something happening inside and storytelling, it's
just so beautiful. But Hollywood, it's just shove it down
my throat. Oh, I'm a Jewish family. It's been a victim. Yeah, really,
Spielberg is a victim. You're a Jewish family. Jewish family
(01:28):
movies about it. I guess several of my screenplays were
about it, but in a different, it's different angle though
you read them. I did break into your not break
in your computer was oupen one day, and I sort
of read the one. What was it called crushing pumpkins
and killing towelheads. Yeah, yeah, that one was dark, Yes
it was. Yeah. I didn't like it, but I like
that I didn't get wanting to satisfy everybody. Yeah, okay,
I don't want to satisfy. I don't want to happening.
(01:51):
I think it's complicated. It seemed like it might have
been racist too. I don't know, complicated storytelling. Well, you know,
a lot of it's older, so I could change some
of that stuff. But I'm not going to change it
just because some PC liberal wants me to change it absolutely,
But if you have any notes, I would say less hateful,
maybe not going to do more concise, like it felt
like all over the place. I didn't know what that's cool.
(02:11):
What's the central story to just pumpkins and killing towerheads.
I think it's just you know, hurting, you know, the
main character gets hurt and then he gets revenge. Classic. Yeah,
I mean that's cool. I like that general archetype. I
just don't know. Thank you, heank you you know. Anyway, anyway,
we've got a great episode ahead of us. Mark Kenyon
is here. It's going to teach us a lot about
the outdoors and shooting animals. So get excited for that.
(02:32):
But first, thinkers, some somber news thinkers. Another school shooting
happened today in boise Ida. Boise I thought it was
in Florida. No, that was last week. That was the
other show. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah right. Sorry. They kind
of just like blend into each other now, so I forget, Well,
they have it so frequently, so it's it's almost kind
of one technically mass shooting. You know, it's like one shooting, right,
World War One and World War two. Well, actually history
(02:54):
now is saying, well, there's just one war, and all
these shootings are essentially just one big shooting, right exactly.
Sort of numb to all of it at this point,
and it's almost as like no effect on me emotionally. Yeah,
me neither. I mean, but you know, not everyone is
as lucky as some people. They don't have the privilege
of being unaffected by you know, children murdering other children,
and and that's recognize my privilege there. Yes, Well, good
for you to to say that adults, because adults murder
(03:17):
each other get murdered by child, you know everyone, age
groups are all sort of murdering each other. That's the thing.
And that's and that's it's very distinct about this giant
shooting that's going on, Yes, this wave of er exactly. Yeah,
it's almost like one murder. You could kind of say
it's one giant murder. That to me takes the worry
out of it so much when you realize it's just
one nothing has changed, right, it's just one shooting, so
(03:38):
you know, we really don't have to worry about it
as much. That's true. And it's a good point to
to mention the adult thing, you know, because it isn't.
It's in the process of killing kids. There's also adults
that die, teachers, teachers, you know. Security, Well, the security
are just smart enough not to go into the school,
and then the police off always stay out, which is smart,
very smart. They don't have any crazy kids in there.
Why would we go in there. Yeah, it's gonna be
(03:59):
nuts exactly. Click. I wish we could keep it to
just kids, but you can't because you know, when these
guns are so powerful, rifles just the best, and they're
the best and the best of the guns, so they're
going to be hitting anybody. Yeah, I mean they just
mow people that. Remember World War One one of the
best wars, you know, when it comes to mowing people
down with machine guns. That's what. They didn't really have
much strategy outside of getting out of the foxhole. Yeah,
(04:21):
it was build a trench and then at some point
blow a whistle and everybody just goes and gets You
hear the whistle from the other side, you're gonna just
gonna start shooting, right exactly. That is not the best
when to shoot, and you know when to charge. But
that's a good proof of how you know, people are
evolving and getting smarter is that. I think for the
most part, we are smart enough now not to go
after our enemies and blow a whistle because the whistle
(04:43):
is gonna say that. You don't hear whistles that much anymore,
not in the context of war, certainly, not in the
context of war, context of recess and music. Sure there
were some excellent whistlers back in the day. Yeah, yeah,
sitting by the dock of the bay. Sitting on the
dock of bay. Yeah, right, is that okay? Yeah, yeah,
it's you know, I think that's uh. I don't think that.
I think it's a white guy. No, definitely, not a
(05:03):
white guy. I think it is. It might be, it
might be, and that's enough to say it is. You know,
a World War One was a great war, and a
lot of innovative technology came out of World War One.
I mean, it's really good, big holes, guys. What happened
to our ability to make holes? I haven't seen a
good hole. I haven't seen a good hole in making holes.
And that's because he knows, you know, he said he
(05:25):
looks back in history and he says, when we're humans
at our peak, and it's when we were digging hole,
digging holes, because you look at some of the structures
that we have. Well there's a leaning tower of pizza. Yeah,
because it's not working that well. Exactly why I build
up when you could open down. That's how I describe
making a hole. It's just opening down. Yeah, I'm opening
down down there. I've heard of opening up. What is
opening down? Meld hole? Bigee? If you can find some
(05:47):
rare metals, so you could get your own big battery, guys,
dig a hole in your backyard. See if there's this
could be huge, you know. And this recent tragedy though,
it got me and Dan thinking about how to prevent
school shootings in the future, you know, and that brings
us to today's big question. Do all women wish they
were their own feces cure aunt? Would children be safer
(06:09):
if everyone's stopped having Sejo Biden be the first ghost press?
Washing your hands actually bad on the house is so scary?
Should children be forced to carry guns? That's really a
really interesting question. And think about Little Tommy, Little Susie.
You know those are kids names they're giving handguns to
go to school with with them every morning. Do you
(06:30):
think that that the press kid who you know they're
bullying and stuff, and he's contemplating murdering everyone. You think
he's going to go through with it if he sees, oh,
they're they're packing heat as well, of course, not if
he knows that his classmates will just light them up
before he can even cause any carnage. He's not gonna
do anything. That's how I think it always. I mean,
look what's going on with the nukes right now, exactly right,
No one's gonna do it because you know that you're
(06:50):
going to get exactly even though I do think we
should do it, who should we new he's a difference. Well,
I mean, I think that's pretty important that you're talking about,
like North Korea you're talking about, yes, yeah, because look,
you don't. We don't want to get on the bargaining
table with those guys that we didn't trump do that
and he was doing that was a mistake, no, well
from for the Democrats that they didn't that they weren't there. Okay, Well,
(07:12):
I think it's what I would call mutually assured destruction thinkers,
just like nuclear arms races, you know, and it's what
we did in the Cold War right with nuclear arms,
and it's what we need to do with the children.
In order to stop this war on children, we need
to create child soldiers. You arm yourself up right to
fight for peace, armed to the teeth. Think about how
safe kids would be and how they would feel at
school if they know that their school district had its
(07:35):
very own child militia, right, and it's important. Thinkers, guys,
we would train these kids and the school. I mean,
first we'll take them to shooting ranges, you know, and
obstacle courses and get them, you know, feeling comfortable and
confident around guns. I mean, what we could do is
we take them out of school, got it, and just
have them trained. I like that train hard, Yeah, because
(07:57):
they ends weekends, weekends and nights, weekends and night paramilitary
trains even do on weekends and nights. What are they
going to spend their time doing anyway? That would be
so mean? Movies shut up. First of all, the movies
out there right now are tarre so bad? They all
have this left us as really stupid lessons. Stop trying
to preach to me. Did you see everything everywhere? Everywhere?
All I want? Well? I thought that was kind. It
(08:17):
was so really good that it was really good. I mean,
first of all. The reason I liked it is that
it kind of bucked though what it was going to
be exactly, and they were mixing the different genres and
it was cool to see like you know, older, yeah,
like like and just different perspective, more diverse casting, you
know what I mean. But it actually it's Hollywood woke.
Now you're just like, what is where's the white protect
(08:40):
just like you know, a superhero. That movie was really
good though, it was and it was cool. It was
very funny, it was very touching. I laughed, I cried, yeah,
and um, you know it was a little long, but
it was the right length for that movie exactly. I
think it's excellent. I really did, and I really hope
that I ridiculous stuff at the end. They shouldn't make
another movie. Just end their careers and shut up, shut
(09:02):
up about it. Back to the kids. These kids, they're
going to be training. They don't have anything to do
at night anyway. I mean, they're crying saying I want
to watch more TVO? What how about this? How about
you run through an obstacle course? Did you just call
it t V t VU? What the hell is that?
It's what you record TV on TV? I don't know
TV al right, what doesn't matter to know the technology,
so you don't have to record anything anymore. It's all
(09:23):
like streaming, isn't it. You know, I cut the chords
on the streaming. I cut the chord on the cable,
and I've cut the chord on the streaming. And you know,
it's a known fact that extracurricular activities are instrumental in
keeping kids active and keep them off the disgusting murderer.
What we're saying here, thinkers, is that teaching kids had
to kill their classmates, that's actually going to prevent them
from killing their classmates. I think that's a smart thing
(09:44):
to do like that. That's I think is what's going
on in these kids heads. They're saying, I don't know
how to do this, right, I don't know what I'm
supposed to be doing, and say, well, if you get
them good aggressive mindset, right, you know. And the teachers,
you know, think of how much less day to day
stress they would have if they knew there students were
coming to their aid in there in a crisis by
carrying loads of guns. Exactly. If a teacher is trying
(10:05):
to get kids attention, now they have an extra tool
if she's clicking on the lights, and then just fire
a gun in the air, saying and then the kids
are strapped, right, they pull out of there, gonna standoff.
It's good. It gets the blood, get nine moving. And
then you've got the principle. Come in with a rifle
and sit down, teach. Yeah, exactly, blow your head off.
There you go, and I think, now you have a
gun pointed at everybody in the word eight fifteen in
(10:27):
the morning. Just got the blood. What a way to
start your day, I think so, especially if you're a child.
And you know what, I was thinking that we could
even model our training program off of the child armies
in Africa who have been so successful, a lot of
success there. Come on, I mean you have to give Look,
it's not everybody's cup of tea. It is important to
adapt to what's happening in the world. You want to
(10:47):
be a global leader. Absolutely, see what's going on. Child
militia's what. We gotta have one, and we're gonna have them.
Should have the strongest one, exactly. Mean South Sudan is
over seventeen thousand child soldiers at the ready. Just think
of all the school shootings, those seventeen thousand kids could
prevent if they were in America, if there were American children.
Has there even been a school shooting in South Sudan.
I don't even know if they go to school there
because I think it's such a war torn country. But
(11:09):
if though, if those children weren't were fighting with disregarding that,
they wouldn't be shooting schools exactly, and disregarding if there's
school or whatever, it doesn't matter. There's no school shootings,
and that's what's important, is shootings. We should mimic some
of that behavior exactly. I have to give you a
lot of credit here, George, because I know you're not
a gunsman. Here's the thing. I'm not what I would
call a gunsman, but I do recognize the power of
(11:33):
fear and what motivation really is at the end of
the day, And what is the highest motivation in life
then to not die. That is the motivation. So if
we instill that fear and that motivation into all of
our children, and we can do that by using guns,
I think the world would be a better place. You're
going to have a really strong, healthy adults, well adjusted,
well adjusted with a good mindset of how to stay alive.
And it's because it's a tough world and it's only
(11:54):
getting tougher way exactly, AI is going to listen. Guys, well,
then you start arming AI. And that's a really interesting
idea because sort of a RoboCop situation, I would say terminator, Well,
but that didn't go well for us, but then we
sort of turned things around. But that that was like
after Sarah Connor came in from the future and ship like,
that's I don't want to I don't want to have
to put that on Sarah Connor's plate where we need
but it's destiny one woman to have to go back.
(12:17):
She accomplished it. She did, and that's why I'm not worried.
People say, well, you've given everybody guns. Isn't that going
to cause a problem. It's like, the problem is going
to happen. It's already written. Exactly. Arm up the kids now,
so when they're adults, you've got a bunch of John
Connors on your hand, you have more of a chance
of having a John Connor on your hand if every
kid knows how to handle a gun. And that's I
think it's really overlooked. It really is. People aren't talking
(12:37):
about that. By the way, the terminat Our franchise is
so good. It is a fantastically and talk about protagonists, yep,
I mean just an incredible performance. I forgot the actress's name.
Linda Hamilton's Linda Hamilton's, Yes, fantasy and she's so good.
She's strong, she's beautiful and beautiful. Yeah, you know, and
that's why we don't love this is before right, and
then Lynda Hamilton's saving John Connor and protecting him so
(13:01):
he can grow up to become a modern day Jesus.
There's just no argument against giving kids guns at this point.
I mean, that's what I'm saying. Watched Terminator two and
then you tell me your kids should have a gun.
I mean, you would be insane. You would be an
insane person. I'm probably gonna go home watch that movie.
Do you want to go to the movies this weekend? Yes?
I do? Okay with me though, let me I will
get back to we should really just focus on what's
(13:22):
the task at hand right now. You just said you
want to go to the movies, but then when I
but then when I presented it with me, you kind
of hesitated, And so I'm just kind of wondering, Well,
I'm just trying to think of my schedule, you know,
because I might only be available at like six am,
six am. I just feel like every time I want
to do like something social with you and kind of
like bond as friends like you just kind of like
skirt skirt. Well, you know, it's just I have I
(13:43):
have a lot of stuff on my plate. You have
nothing on outside of this podcast, friends, a lot of stuff.
I'm trying to get things going. Okay, you know whatever,
I think, if we just flood our school system with guns,
we take the power away from the guns. Everybody has
a gun. Nobody has a gun. Yes, now that we've
solved that problem, obviously, rate the podcast, you know, follow
(14:04):
us on the Socialist Guys and get ready for a
kick ass episode. Yourself a gun and get your kid
a gun. But first, advertisements, and these ads are goods.
They're so good because we're actually where our numbers are
slowly but surely creeping up, which means the products are
getting slightly better, quietly slightly. You know, Dan, if you're
(14:27):
not up on your survival skills in today's world, you're dead.
You're dead meat. Okay, And speaking of dead meat, we
have just a really important guest, I think for our
thinkers out there, because this guy will teach you how
to get the real dead meat and get it into
your body. We're talking about and we're talking to hunting
guru Mark Kenyan. This guy's a podcaster, he is a
(14:50):
certified dear Steward. He's a published aufor Revolutionist. He's an
entrepreneur changed changing the game in so many ways. He's
the host of the Meat your podcast, Wired to Hunt,
Mark Kenyon. We're talking to Mark Kenyon, one of the
nicest He's the man. He's the man. He's a legend,
and he's such a sweet dude, such a nice guy.
And also he knows how to kill anything. He can kill.
(15:11):
That's what's the most important. Yes, I appreciate that he
was nice and down to have a conversation, but really
it's important to know that he can kill you, kill
anything at any time. So you better listen to what
he has to say. And even though I don't really
like listening, you know, I'm you know, me of a talker.
I'm more of a thinker. But this guy I'm willing
to listen to because I know he can kill me
exactly and he taught us how we can go about
(15:33):
learning how to kill not just animals but each other,
which I think is really really insightful. Absolutely, and that's
something that I think we should explore more, is should
we kill each other? Right? And when do we know
each other? And how when do we do it? How
do we do it? Mark's got a lot of that
information early informative talk especially, I think for a lot
of our listeners that are at home on their computers,
(15:54):
this guy is going to get you out in the
woods and he's really going to make you change the
way you think. So give this conversation a real hearty listen. Okay,
we are here with nationally published author, certified dear steward, podcaster,
and all around legend of the hunting and fishing community,
(16:15):
Mr Mark Kenyon. Mark, welcome to man. Thank you, thank
you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thank you, guys.
I'm excited to be here. Are you in the bush
right now? Are you out somewhere stalking a big prey?
Where are we exactly? Yeah? How are you plugged into
a power source? Yes? So, so I am not at
all times in the bush, Um I am. I'm here
at my home in Michigan in between hunts and spending
(16:38):
some time with the family. Now, when you say in
between hunts, how long does a typical hunt last for you?
And I know, I'm sure it depends on what you're hunting,
but we're talking one, two hours or like how long
until you're kind of like just stop in and say hello,
let's say hi to the deer, and then covered in
blood a little bit of both. Actually not so much
the covered in blood thing to the end. But there
are some hunts that go on that ares local. Like
(16:58):
there's small, far and different things that are close to
where I live in Michigan, where I can go out
and hunt for three or four hours in the evening.
Other times I will travel somewhere far away to Montana
or Alaska or Idaho, and I'll spend a week out there,
living out in the mountains of the woods, camped out
and hunting, you know, all day for seven days. So
it can vary a lot. And when you're hunting on
these farms, you're just putting a gun up to a
(17:20):
cow's head and pop, you know, you get a nice
pig or a cow. The farmer lets you have it.
That is how they do it in the farming world,
but no, I primarily bow hunt in Michigan. I'm hunting deer.
White tailed deer are the critter that's out here, and
so in that case, I'm out there with a bow
and you are trying to anticipate where you think deer
will be moving through, where they're heading to to feed
(17:40):
or travel to to get water or whatever might be.
And you're trying to actually set up an ambush location
up in a tree usually, and you wait for the
deer to come through and got to have them close,
and you need to know a lot about the animals
to figure out, you know, when they're going to do
certain things and why they're gonna do certain things, and then, uh,
you know, try to get a really good, clean, ethical
shot that puts me out of the ground really quick.
Let's talk about that. So when we say ethical shot
(18:02):
and you mentioned bow hunting, I would imagine is it
more difficult to land an ethical shot with a bow
or is it the same? How does it differ between
bows and guns? Both of them are very lethal, like
both of them can have a perfectly lethal, quick, clean kill,
but a bow does require more proficiency, more work. You
just simply need to spend more time practicing dialing in
(18:24):
you know, you're set up and your process for how
to do that. So some people choose to get into
bow hunting because it requires that extra work, requires that
extra depth of understanding of the entire process. So for
people that that hunting really resonates with and they want
to kind of get deeper into it and force themselves
to learn more, to get better, to spend more time
out there, bow hunting is a great way to that.
(18:45):
And where would one buy a bow and arrow? Because
I've looked at all the stores around me, Ralph's Whole Foods,
and if you ask for a bow and arrow, they
don't know they don't have it in in in in
their stores. And I look at you like you're crazy.
Your shot in the wrong section of them all. There
are like big box stores that sell this kind of stuff,
like Cabela's or Bass Pro shops. There's actually some places
(19:08):
like this in I know for sure, in Manhattan, in Brooklyn. Yeah,
hunting is picking up a lot of interest in some
of these urban areas, and it's cool to see that
popping up. I'm a native New Yorker and uh, you know,
the Central Park is huge and there's a lot of game.
You know, we got raccoons. This sounds like a joke
to you guys, It sounds like a joke, but it's
actually real. Urban hunting is becoming a thing. Uh not
(19:29):
so much in like downtown Manhattan, Central Park, but like
Long Island, they're hunting deer. I actually hunted outside of Washington,
d C. Last year, in people's backyards because there are
incredibly high deer numbers in these neighborhoods and outside these cities,
and there's there's no way to control it. So they
could either hire some kind of like company that controls
(19:49):
animal populations, or you know, there are hunters who would
be willing to buy a hunting license and to do
this in a careful and responsible way and then have
that meat to feed their families or donate to homeless shelters.
And it's a way to deal with a kind of
an animal management problem in a way that you know,
is a win win for more people. And here here's
what I like about hunting, because even though I've never
done it, I'm too scared to do it. You know,
(20:11):
these deer, they get it in their heads that they
could just have as many of them as they want.
But then we've got men, human men go out there
and bam, put an arrow in them and say, you
can't do that, you can't have so many of you.
This is a man's world, baby. I mean, that's the
point of hunting, right, is to kind of put down
the animals, to show them that it's a man's world.
I think you're slightly off as far as as why
(20:32):
we do it, you know, So I'm gonna I'm gonna
offer you, guys an invitation if ever you want to
see the real thing. I would love to meet up
with you somewhere and give you some give you some lessons.
Let's go um downtown Manhattan subway stations, start shooting some rats. Dan.
We're not in this to to push down on the
eagle of the collective deer population out there. It's really
(20:53):
it's it's really to acquire food that's as about as
organic and natural and cloth to the land as you
can possibly get it. And it's a way to connect
with um, you know, with with a part of what
makes us human. This is gonna get slightly deep and
maybe weird, but now we're into that. We're into that.
We were our bodies were built. We as humans evolves
(21:15):
around this need to acquire food from the wild, Right,
that's what we're doing for tens and tens of thousands
of years, and so these days, though we're largely divorced
from that, right, we're not very close to our food.
Not many folks are still going out there into the
woods and fields and having to acquire their food themselves.
And once you do that, I think a lot of
people feel like an innate connection to it. Almost feels
(21:36):
like coming home. It's something like all of a sudden,
feels very familiar when you do it, but if you
don't have any context, no experience with it, it can
sound like a weird thing. Yeah, I mean that's sort
of touches on what I've heard a lot of hunters say.
Maybe you'd agree with this mark, like, like there's a
spiritual aspect to hunting, right, I mean the connection to
all things. Like I do a ton of ayahuasca, don
aahuasca and psychedelic mushrooms every day for three straight years,
(21:56):
and I think that's super similar to hunting. Because here's
the thing, even though we're doing different things, both practices
teach you that you are part of a bigger hole. Yeah.
I don't know about psychedelics and whatnot, but I could
definitely speak to that. There is a like a lion
king circle of life kind of connection that you tap into.
You absolutely do have, and some people would described as spiritual,
(22:17):
some people would describe it. I don't know, many different ways,
but but yes, like you, you go from being an
outside observer of the natural world, like if you're on
a hike, you're hiking through the woods, you're observing it.
If you go into that same landscape as a hunter,
you are not a part of that landscape, You're part
of the process. You are now a cog in that
wheel of life, and it feels completely different. You look
(22:38):
at things completely different. You recognize the seriousness of life
and death in a very different way when you are,
you know, forced to confront your choice to eat meat,
when you have to do it yourself. You know, some
folks that don't hunt might think that hunters look at
life carelessly because we are killing an animal. So you
might think like, oh gosh, they just willy nearly kill
an animal. They don't care about that animal. That's that's
(23:00):
what I thought, That's what you thought. So My argument
and my experiences is that's the opposite. Rather, you realize
that it is so much more important and so much
more sacred when you have to look that in the
eyes like you have to do it yourself. You have
to make that decision and say, if I'm going to
take this life, I recognize this life is sacred and special,
and I better darn well do it the right way.
Value this thing correctly, use it correctly, use it for
(23:22):
the right things. And you take it very very seriously.
So you know, I swerve out of the way to
not hit a squirrel in the road, I I that's
not hunting. That's not hunting, because I've hit a lot
of deer. And I was like, you know what, I'm
an excellent marksman. I'm very intrigued by hunting, you know
(23:44):
because as I said, and and and Mark, I don't
know if you were being facetious before, but that that
invitation to hunt with you. Listen, you take me hunting.
I'll take you on an Ayawaska retreat. You know. We
it's a trade off. It's a trade off. But here's
the thing. When you make the kill and you are
processing the animal, how much time do you have like
what if your way out in bush and that's a
ton of meat, Like, how much time do you have
before the animal starts to you know, the meat starts
(24:05):
to go bad or it starts to attract scavengers? I mean, like,
how how are you just pressed for times? Does that
not at me trying to george as a scavenger? Well,
you're not gonna go out there and steal your meat.
That's the kind of well, that's the kind of hunting
you would do. I think Danny's you would just kind
of hang out smart some of the smartest animals. Well, yeah, okay,
you're a vulture. So that's that's and I I take
that with pride. Thank you. It's a compliment, uh to
(24:26):
the question. It's it depends on the temperature, that's the
big thing. So if it's really hot outside, then things
do get sped up. But you know most places across
the country in the fall it's pretty cool. So I mean,
you have ours. The first thing you want to do
when you come up on that animals, you want to
remove the entrails, the guts, and that's a process takes
a couple of minutes and once that's out, like that's
the big hot thing that's inside of an animal, and
(24:48):
most of the insets removed, there's nothing heating up the
animal from the inside anymore, and so that meat actually
develops kind of like a dry rind almost along the
outside of the meat. Mark. Can we just take a
take a second. I think I might puke. But anyway,
so guts, they they're hot, and there's a rind like
a parmesan cheese or something. Is that what you're saying?
What about the organs? Do you eat the organ meats?
So the only organ I've eat consistently is the heart.
(25:10):
Heart of heart. Wow, that's so cool. That's when you
truly know you've dominated the animal. I'm eating your I mean,
that's why you're doing it, right. Come on, I'm gonna
against say it's no domination. It's nothing to do that.
You don't fit right into the heart and let the
blood drip down your arm and say I am a man,
this is my world. You've never done that. I feel
like that would play really well for like a viral
(25:31):
Instagram post for everyone who's against hunting to have the
animal they want. Yeah, I mean I think a lot
of people. You're a huge proponent of conservation right, And
I think a lot of people probably naively think, oh, well,
hunters don't care about that at all, But it's actually
quite the opposite, especially for ethical hunters. Why don't you
talk a little bit about that. Yeah, well, it absolutely is,
and I think it's twofold. I would say, on one hand,
(25:52):
if you hunt, you are naturally going to spend a
lot of time in the outdoors. You're gonna spend a
lot of time watching wildlife, exploring beautiful land escapes, and
so spending that much time outside, you can't do that
and not develop a love for these places and animals
and an appreciation for them. And with that comes a
sense of obligation, like, hey, if I'm going to go
out here and enjoy these places and hunt for these animals,
(26:15):
I think that comes with an obligation to want to
and I feel like you might have to give back
to even those scales. And then I would say, secondly,
specifically in the hunting side, you know, as you get
more and more into hunting, you also realize, like it's
it's more than just going out there and taking an animal.
It's carefully managing this resource, and you're doing it in
a very carefully manage regulated way to make sure that
(26:36):
these animal populations and to make sure that these wild
places are in balance and making sure they will be
around in perpetuity. And so if you do that kind
of stuff long enough, you're gonna realize, like, Okay, this
stuff isn't here by accident, This isn't here just by happenstance.
The only reason why we still have wild places, the
only reason we still have wild animals, is because people
were willing to stand up and fight for these things.
(26:57):
They're willing to give back. They're willing to give their
time and their money and their energy to protect public lands.
And you know, historically hunters have been one of the
most active groups in that because of this very deep
connection that we have with the resource. You know, it's
so complicated these the national lands because you, on one hand, yes,
you want to keep them beautiful. On the other hand,
(27:18):
think about how much money you know they can make
if there were condos, Like what do you think about
something like that? Would you be would you be that
upset if you saw people making some money? Not a
fan of that idea. What's unfortunate is like, that's not
that far off. There are a lot of people who
do see these public lands as you know, you know,
they see dollar signs when they see these public lands.
So there's actually a lot of politicians who have been
(27:39):
for saying, oh, this is a waste of money that
we have this stuff. We should either be logging it
all down or we should be selling it and taking
those profits and putting it towards something else. Any specific
politicians that we want to name it call out right
now as problems, probably Ted Cruz. Yeah, actually, and you
could always just say Ted no matter why. I always
know Ted's on the wrong side. And that's what I
love about him is that everyone agrees how much they
(28:00):
hate him. It's great. It's a great method to get
your name out there. Yeah. You know, I'm not a
political kind of guy. I'm a right in the middle
of the road independent. But I will say that more
recently there's been some bad actors on the Republican side
when it comes to public lands. I'd love to see
that change, which is terrible because you think Republicans, you know,
they love guns, you know, we should be like, hey,
conserving should be as a hunter and hunting and fishing
(28:24):
in the outdoors being a big part of my life.
When I look at who and how I'm going to vote,
those things factor into it, and I'm gonna over generalize here.
The right side of the aisle tends to be obviously
more in line with hunters on firearm rights, more in
line with them on opportunity to hunt. But on the
flip side, they're very bad historically traditionally when it comes
(28:44):
to public lands, when it comes to the environment, when
it comes to you know, pollution, climate change, anything like that.
So all those things I would prefer to be good on.
On the other side, the left side, obviously they're tougher
on firearm rights. There's more anti hunting kind of sentiment
on that side, so that's not for a hunter and angler.
But on the flip side, the less side, i'le traditionally
is much better on public lands, climate, the environment. So
(29:07):
there's no there's no easy way to go. If you
are kind of in my world as someone who cares
about that kind of stuff. Well here and you talk though, Mark,
do you have any political ambitions or is that something
maybe down the line or something you know, if you
want to announce a presidential run, do it here, do
it here, do it. I'm man thinkers. Uh so no,
no political ambitions, but I would love to have a
larger impact in influencing a lobbyist. So not so much
(29:30):
a lobbyist, but I could see myself, you know, continuing
to do more and more advocacy. Mark. If um, if
George and I came hunting with you, who would die first?
I hate to say it, my friend, but I would
probably pick you. There you go. See you can't handle
you can't handle one. Life gets real Dan. That's the thing. Well, Mark,
if you want to take us out in Michigan to
hunt and kill me there, I'm happy to do it.
(29:52):
One last question for you, Mark, and this is just,
you know, just hit us with the God's honest truth.
You know, your content very educational, very informative. But do
you think that part of the reason why your content
has been so successful is that you know, people just
kind of intuitively since that the earth is sort of
screwed and the next you know, five to ten years,
we're going to be in apocalypse times and if you
don't know how to hunt, you are shipped out of luck. Like,
(30:14):
do you think there's any truth to that? I think
that there are probably a few people who have thought,
you know what, I better get my survivalist skills up.
There was a huge boost and hunter numbers during COVID. Yep. Absolutely,
people just realizing, like, I better get my ship together.
You know, BI will take care of myself. So I
hope there's no zombie apocalypse coming, but if there is,
I feel better prepared than than most. Maybe have you
(30:36):
ever had like close encounters with other apex predators while
you're out there? Uh? Ish? Like I had a grizzly bear,
a mom and cub grizzly outside my tent like sixty
yards away in Alaska one time, and you just shot
him straight in the heart to get him out of there.
I just yelled at her, get out of here bear,
and she listened, and she listened. That now that I
can do. Well, that's what we try to do. Yes, see,
Dan and I do that on the regular. We just
(30:57):
yelled at each other our guests. Tends to work. I
think if I walked out into nature and started talking
to and yelling at all the animals, I would be
the dominant species and that would make me feel good.
It would help the ego. That is a viral video
right there. Okay, let's do that, so when we come
to Michigan, you don't have to teach me any of
the hunting stuff. I'm just gonna go out there and
yell and lecture that that's perfect for both of us.
This sounds like great, Well, thank you, Mark, it was
(31:18):
great to meet you. All right, nice to me. You
wom in all. I mean, he's kind of just the
manliest of men, you know, he's one of one, the
true he is one of one. He's the manliest of men.
And after talking to him, I feel manly, which is
hard for you. It's that that doesn't come naturally to you. Well,
it's I mean, it's I think. I think this brought
it out of me, his natural nature, his own nature,
(31:42):
true His natural nature brought out my true nature, which
is that I am a strong man. I can go
out into the woods and yell at animals and feel
better about myself. And that's all it takes. And you know,
if if that's how close you are to feeling like
a man, you're basically already there. Absolutely just gotta get
out of the city. I really think we should take
him up on that, on that offer to take Sunny Like.
I absolutely, but I'm serious I don't know. I don't
(32:02):
know if you would you'll actually go through with it.
I mean, I can go, but I would I think
I would do it my way. You know. Look, I
appreciate all this bow and arrow Gina Davis stuff that
that's pretty cool. But me, I want a handgun. I
want to feel safe and secure to protect my family,
and I just want to shoot any animal that I see.
Because he's saying, you know, he bumped into a grizzly
bear and he yelled at it. Great, I want to
do that too, But I'm going to take that shot
(32:23):
with a handgun takedown a grizzly Maybe it would a
bunch of a bunch of shots. Yeah, I probably have
to kind of like John Wick. Oh yeah, oh man,
that'd be cool if we could be like John Wick.
Do some John Wick stuff in the bush. Now, do
we have the budget for my heart to send us
to Michigan or do we have to pay for it ourselves? No,
there's no way they would pay. We'd have to we
get these implements out there, okay, Because I think feel
(32:45):
the power of sand. Harness, the power of harness before
your next hunt. Harness, the power of sand, be your
own wind swept dune. That's a beautiful sentence. Stand because
it's a beautiful pill. I actually really do think you
do have some promise in Hollywood as a writer. After
hearing sentences like that, I gave it up because they
were wrong, but I would be willing to go back.
But I do hate Hollywood. I love stories, hate Hollywood.
(33:07):
I did watch seven movies yesterday and they were all contest.
Movies are so great. I love movies. Great episode. Can
you thank you so much? Keep thinking? Okay, just always
be thinking until the next time that you're listening to us,
and then start thinking again after you're done with the episode.
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