January 19, 2023 • 33 mins
The Thinkers discuss expanding the Me Too movement's reach by believing everyone, not just women. Then, author and podcaster Dan Savage, engages the Thinkers in a civil debate about all things sex, which leaves George questioning his sexuality and Dan questioning his sanity.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dan, we should probably promote the socials because it is
not I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm frustrated because we're getting millions of listeners. As far
as I know, we're getting millions of listeners. Right, So
then I look at the socials and I expect to
see millions.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Of followers or at least in the hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
What do we have now, like twenty five?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I think we're two hundred and something, which which, you
know what, You got to start somewhere, right, Hey, guys,
just real quick at man thinkers. Okay, it's just at
man thinkers. We got Twitter, we got Instagram. We've got
to TikTok. Just click. You're so resistance to click. The
problem you click all day. All you do is click.
So go to freaking Instagram and click on the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Don't chuckle to yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
This is funny.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
They need.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This is our life, this is our livelihood.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Push pause, Yes, click the thing, click follow like whatever,
subscribe saying love Adore Team Joint.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Here's the thing, guys, when we have low amounts of followers,
the ads, you're getting terrible quality. It's going to be
really really low quality because they don't want to give
it just bad audio and the products that you're about
to hear are so bad. But if we can get
at like ten thousand followers, boom, we are in a
new tier of ad. Nike Nike. What do you guys
want to hear about Nike?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Those are the best shoes.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I mean, they're the only shoes anyone should ever buy
as far as I'm concerned. If you're wearing anything else here, guys,
follow Nike. Okay, yes, go to Nike back and hit
click the thing. Click on Nike, all right, and don't
think that Nike has Oh, Nike's already established. Guys, Nike
needs your help. You you got to buy your shoes McDonald's.
Go follow McDonald's immediately.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Living your life this way where you think you know
everything and you don't. That's why we're here. Yes, follow
us at Man Thinkers. Man at Man Thinkers.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's the name.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, what shoe should it be? Right?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, you're I forgot the name of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You're listening to the Man Thinkers Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
A show that forges a new roadmap for the modern
man on how to best live life.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm George Collins, a former liberal cuckle.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I'm Dan Finkelstein, a staunch libertarian insect.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
This is a safe space.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
From save spaces.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You blame all your problems on me, and I'm just
trying to help you. I've been your friends through thick
and thin. It's crazy that I'm still co hosting this
podcast with you. But how badly you're getting tracked the
mud in the public eye. No, your harassment cases. I
should have cut you out years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Try try to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
What do you mean to do?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Here's what we'll do an episode, okay where it's half me,
half you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's always half me, half youw But I'm saying no, I.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Do my own little portion. We draw line in the sand.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I'd love to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And we draw line in the sand and let the
thinkers vote which one was better.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I guarantee you.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Then if I lose, I'll kill myself.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, don't do that. Why not anyway, anyway, we've got
a great episode. We have a really good episode for
you guys. We got Dan Savage, one of He is
a savage man. Let me tell you this guy is
tough as nails. He's a great guy. He hosts a
sex show called the Savage Love Cast, which is disgusting. Well,
I actually like his show, and I think you should
listen to it more because I think it's very popular.
(02:51):
We're very lucky to go. Oh yeah, his numbers blow
hards out of the water. Dan, really, yes, he has
so many more followers.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But isn't he just talking about like sex and stuff?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I mean sex, Hell, what are you talking about, Strue?
I mean, I actually think that the fact that you
don't you've never had sex, holds us back because we
could talk about sex more if you had had it.
All right, let's talk about sex now. Okay, what is sex?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
It is? I know what sex is, so why are
we even talking about it?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Okay? But ext question. I don't know that you know what?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You smell it? You know it if you smell it anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I you know what, Dan, I was thinking about this
the other day, because you're always open to provocative ideas.
Oh my god, you know yeah, I feel like your propagation,
that's your.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Whole mott how I live.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I actually don't know if I would exist without it
exactly exactly, And I have nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I'll just poke someone.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And that's why, Dan, I really think you're gonna like
this because I was thinking about the me too moment
the other day.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Oh my god, I mean I was thinking about them too.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I hate them. I hate that movement.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It just doesn't make any sense, really annoying that I
have Feminismazis, Feminazis.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And I don't want to have to think about that
stuff and the me too. Mom's like, no, no, you
have to, like, you know, investigate your own but I'm like,
shut up, no, I don't want to think about this stuff.
And here's the thing though, while thinking about it, annoid
as I was, I think I figured out a way
to put an end to the me too movement in
a way that even Feminazis will get behind.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Really okay, yes, okay, so I can't imagine bring with
them on anything.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You're gonna love my logic here, you know, the me
too slogan Believe women, right.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I mean I've heard many guys who say that they're feminists,
but it's really just, you.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Know, so they can.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They're just trying to get late. And that brings us
to today's big question.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do all women wish they were their own?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Feces?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Cure aunts when children be safer if everyone's stopped having
seen Joe Biden will be the first ghost press.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Washing your hands actually bad for me?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Why your haunted house is so scary? Should the me
too slogan believe women be changed to believe everyone?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Hmmm, that's really interesting. So that would that would include
men exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So if a woman comes forward and accuses a powerful
man of harassment, you absolutely believe her, like the original
slogan implores. But when the man who is accused of
this abhorrent behavior responds by saying he he's innocent, believe
him too. Wow.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So you believe the accusers and you believe the accused exactly,
because then you are treating both men and women equally,
which is what the feminazis wanted. In the first they
say they don't exactly, You're right, they say, believe women.
You say, I will believe men too, exactly, believe all
of us exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I mean it sound logic, but I could still see,
you know, the regressive left saying, well, you should only
believe the accusers, but you know the accused have a
right to be believed to absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And remember, with this philosophy, you're still honoring women who
come forward initially by believing them, you believe their original accusations.
I'm not saying you're not.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Saying that always believe women, always believe, always believe. I
think that's it.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
But you know, then you're just believing the men after
the fact when they declare their innocence.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Exactly right. I believe the woman, but I'm innocent. I
believe you too, exactly. Just assume everyone is telling the
truth all the time. And you know, Dan, I was
thinking this could really help you out, you know, given
your situation that you're in right now.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I am.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I am in that boat right now.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know, I've gotten several women accusing me of sexual harassment,
and you know what, I believe them.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
You totally believe them. I fully believe what you were there.
I was there, know it's true.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I can I remember if their description is accurate, which
typically it is.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I say, oh, yeah, I know, you know what I do.
Remember that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I believe you exactly, But you also believe yourself when
you say I didn't do it exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Innocent.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Problems solved, you don't even have to go to court.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
That really simplifies an otherwise complicated issue, and I can
hear women are massive female audience right now thinking well,
that's not fair, because then women will never get their justice.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No. No, when a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment,
if that man says, hey, I did that, yes, we
believe that guy when he says he did it. Yes.
So the men who come forward and say, hey, look
i'm a sexual harassmer.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Lock me up, lock him up.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But when someone says, well, you know, I don't want
to be locked up. So I don't think I did that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I don't think I did that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
She could be an insane person that should be locked up.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'm just believing everyone every step of the way. So
she says, hey, Dan Finkelstein did this to me. I'm
on her side. I'm on her side one hundred percent.
Then I go hey Dan, what happened in there? And
then you go nothing, I don't know if she's nuts.
And I go, oh, okay, you're right, and I believe
you too. I believe you too, and I move on
with my day.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And then you say, hey, i'm listening to you, Linda.
You know I changed her name, don't Oh no, there
wasn't there a Nancy. Ye it was Linda, Right, Yeah,
you know I should. I could just talk to my
lawyer about this.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Oh you have a lawyer, now, I thought you were
going to represent yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well I am, because you know, I've had a really
part time finding a lawyer who's willing to take the
case because you know, the amount of evidence against me
is so large, right right.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's that. Didn't a few more women come forward recently
or something?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, interns or somebody. There's always intern that's the issue.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
It is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I didn't realize, Well I should say this for the courtroom,
but I didn't realize that interns, could, you know, because they're.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Not real employee.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
If you're not getting it's an unpaid internship. I should
be free to talk to you anyway I want.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know you're basically you're not an employee, an indentured
service exactly, and I should be able to talk to
you the way I talk to women on the street. Yes,
if you could be accused of sexual harassment by random
women who you just walk by on the street, you
would really be in trouble. But you can't, right, well,
you probably could, but they just they're so confused by
what you're doing. They just sort of want away and
they're like that guy's crazy. And I don't remember those
things happening anyway, so it didn't happen, right, because I
(08:04):
believe you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Thank you, you know, because I mean these interns, Yeah,
they just don't even matter. I mean, who cares about interns?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I don't, although I do believe them, Yes, me.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Too, Oh my goodness. So you could mean they tell
that they're very true. Terms are very honest people, very truthful.
But I just meant I should talk to myself later
as my own lawyer, because I think this has really
sounded it is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And I also really like the argument you were explaining
to me earlier about how you're a virgin, right, and
so yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm a virgin.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Therefore, you know, how could I sexually harass someone if
I don't know what sex is?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
That?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
See, that's the type of four D chest the radical
left can't hand.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They wouldn't even know what to do with it, and
it's it's just outside their comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Exactly, Can a child sexually harassed an adult? No, they
don't know what's the child? Can't You're just a big
baby you're just a big baby. You're a baby boy
technically via sex terms, if we're talking in sex terms, Yes,
I am an immature minor, you're a child, you're any
They accused me of sexual harassment, they're pedip because again,
remember I'm a minor in rest case, and they're saying
(09:03):
that I was involved in some kind of sexual situation that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
They put me in. Exactly, they're the ones accusing me.
I just think it's it's going to be easy.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
When you're as smart as you are and as I am,
life is easy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Honestly it is. Anyway, though, guys. Yeah, so believe everyone,
believe every really really brilliant thing. And I think that's
going to bring equality to the sexes finally in a
way that has not we've not seen before.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
We've seen a lot of fake equality, pseudo equality that
women have pushed, but we haven't seen the male version
of what equality could look at exactly. Well, guys, we
have a great show, one of the.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Best shows I think we've ever had, to be honest.
What we have to do first, though, is we got
to talk about ads. And the first ad is for
our show.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Follow Man Thinkers on the socials email us at man
Thinkers podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
These guys, we are desperate.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
We've got a very interesting Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
This is exciting because this guest Thinkers is probably the
biggest guest we've ever had in terms of following, in
terms of influence, in terms of.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
How much I dislike their views for you.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
For me, I really hit it off of him. I
thought he was a great guy. We are, of course
talking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I hit it off as well. Well, sure it was
a big time just it was awesome so much.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I don't know if you like you that much, but
that's all right.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
We are talking.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We're talking about Dan Savage, the journalist, the podcaster, Yes,
the host of Savage Love. It's relationship and sex advice podcast.
It's one of the most popular podcasts in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
We should actually talk to him about how to get
the numbers up, because I feel like, well, we just
talked to him. I know we should have asked him,
but like now we're right, well, you're not friends with
why I could I'll reach out. I think I don't
think he likes you, Dan.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
He respects me though, because we don't like each other.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You made terrible points and he destroyed you think you're
gonna see just this is old fashioned debate, a debate,
just a regular debate. But anyway, guys, check out our
interview with Dan Savage.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Dan Savage, thank thank you so much for being on
Man Thinkers.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
It's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
That's wonderful. Let's just promise to keep this conversation civil.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Can we do that.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
I'm more than capable, And like I said, I'm happy
to be here, happy to pull the dick out of
my mouth long enough to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh wow, say I respect that. That's a power move
right off the top, just talking about Dixon mouths. I
think that's great.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Anyway, Dan, So you're a groomer. You've been a groomer.
You started way back when, so I'd like, wait, wait.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Wait, wait, I have to interrupt the groomer narrative here. Okay,
the first time I had sex, I was a miner
and it was a woman in her twenties who had
sex with me. Well, respect, So if anybody got groomed here,
it's me. And if anybody got groomed, I got groomed
by a heterosexual. And you're abusing the term groomer, which
is a word that has a meaning, which is someone
(11:46):
who ingratiates themselves with a child and a child's family
in order to make that child feel safe with that person,
so that they then then get away with sexually.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Assaulting that child. I've never groomed anyone.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I thought it was in your profile. I thought it
was in your bio. Sure that's not the professional listing.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Okay, well that's just a mistake. That's what I thought
on me. But I think somebody, I think Jenna sent
me some notes with that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
But anyway, I's like, Dan, move, just blame the woman.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Now, Dan, people know you as giving sex advice. Why
did you want to destroy American family values? What was
what motivated you to do that.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Most of my advice is about how to make a
relationship work, and a lot of the advice I give
is to partner people, many of whom have children, about
how to figure out how to make that relationship work,
what compromises can be made, what accommodations can be made
so that that family doesn't break apart. I am sometimes
labeled the sexual deviant by the right I was going
to say, yet I have probably saved more marriages and
(12:44):
kept more families intact by encouraging people to meet each
other's needs sexually and to turn a blind eye to
what they you know, needs they can't meet and making
accommodation so that the relationship, which is I think more
important than sexual exclusivity, survives.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
So I just got to say, Dan, would I would
like to speak before you.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, I just want to say I think Dan Savage
just did a little bit of a mic drop moment
that was very eloquent. It was very well.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I have to say, personally, what's frustrating right now just
about the rhetoric that's going on is I don't like
how you're kind of twisting my questions and then giving
sort of an eloquent response.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Do you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You don't like that. He gave a good response, but
that's to your lifelost citization.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But he twisted, That's what I'm saying, Like he's twisting
my words, he's taking it out of content.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think he just school Actually, Dan Savage, I should
ask you because you just mentioned helping relationships meet halfway.
I'm in an open relationship now. It's going very well
for my wife. She has a lot of attention for men.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You're just trying to ask him. This is what he
does on his show.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
But I know he's an expert. I would like some
of his trying to get some free advice. I've had
a very hard time attracting attention from other women. Again,
my wife having a great time out every night, lots
of cool guys, Paolo Brazilian dude, so handsome living at
our house right now. But I have had a very
tough time. You know, is it harder for the men
in heterosexual open relationships in general? And if so, what
can I do and we do to kind of bolster
(14:01):
the numbers here.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yeah, it is harder for men and open relationships, open
heterosexual relationships to find. You know, it's easier to find
men who'll fuck married women than it is to find
women who'll fuck married men.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Respect.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
It's just a truth, and there's a lot of reasons
why that might be. It's what you guys can do
together though, to solve for it. It's in your wife's
own best interest that you be as satisfied in this
open relationship as she is. So maybe she goes with
you to some sex parties, maybe she arranges to have
some threesomes with you.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Again, we're trying to keep things civil here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
This is very civil, This is very helpful. Yeah, what
are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
This is literally we're talking about organized heterosexual swinging.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm trying to determine how I feel about that.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Your wife is going to want to help game this
system so that you're sexually satisfied in this relationship as
she is, or the wheels will come off. Sometimes a
heterosexual couple open the relationship. The wife's out there all
the time, meaning hot Brazilian guys and maybe move in,
and the husband is sex starve and begins to resent
agreeing to the open the relationship. And the paradox is
(14:59):
it's offen the husband who's just opening the relationship, and
the wife is reluctant, and then it's YACHTSI for the wife.
The wife wins that game and she's really happy that
the relationship is open, and the husband has regrets.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So basically what you're saying is, Dana, you'd be like, hey,
you got to convince your female friends to have sex
with me, otherwise this isn't gonna work.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, that's great. I bet your wife knows some Mary.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Put the pressure on her.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Your wife probably has some girlfriends who've complained to her
that they haven't gotten laid in a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
You could be the hero man.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well now, Dan, Now why is it okay for him
to say, Hey, why get me some people to have
sex with otherwise I'm out of here? But it's not
okay for me. You know, a single insult. I say
that to people all the time. I say, somebody have
sex with me, or you know, there's going to be
trouble and it's not working for me.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So isn't that a double standard?
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Look the relationship that your co host is trying to
make work, that's something that they're working on together. They
want to make sure each partner is invested in the
other's pleasure and satisfaction. You trying to impose on I
guess every woman on the planet. Yes, some idea that
you have a right to sex. You don't have a
right to sex. The two people in a partnership have
a responsibility in making sure it's satisfying for both so
(16:00):
that it's functional. You don't get to impose your in
cel dick on some woman because you're here. Society owes
you doesn't hold to blow a load in go get
a flash light.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I just feel like I can't even flirt anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You never have flirted, Dan, That's what I've tried. You
don't know that.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I feel like you can't anymore.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Flirting is something two people do together. It is not
something you do at some person.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Does interesting.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
You don't flirt on somebody. You can jack off on somebody,
but you can't flirt on somebody or at somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I've always said you can jack off onto somebody. You
can always jack off onto somebody. That's important to remember
any for the listeners, the thinkers out there, If you
take anything away from this conversation, just remember you can
always jack off onto somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Prepositions.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It's all about it. I say, mister Savage that Dan
our Dan. His in celibacy is driving him insane. In celibacy, Yes,
and I think you should just take care of it,
you know, go to Nevada.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Yes, absolutely, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right, Well, do you think that would just kind of
relieve a look, because I think you're just tense, You're
just wound up. I think you need to have sex.
So there's professional consensually obviously, but only if.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
You can leave your resentment outside the door.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Is that part of the deal.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
The solution for violent angry insels isn't throw sex workers
at them, because sex workers don't deserve to be locked
in rooms with men who resent and despise and hate
them and want.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
To fuck them.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Those those are the three.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I do think that all sex at some level is transactional.
All human relationships at some level or transactional. We all
pay for it, and I think there'd be fewer angry
insuels in the world if we didn't stigmatize people who
might have to pay for it because they're socially disabled.
Perhaps in a way, you know, we all recognize. Like
Helen Hunt, I think when an oscar for a movie
about a sex worker who meets the need for physical
(17:32):
intimacy of a profoundly physically disabled man, and that celebrate it.
We should celebrate when a sex worker is able to
meet the physical needs of a profoundly socially disabled person, right, Dan,
I don't agree with that phrase and provide them with
physical comfort. And anybody who looks at their marriage and says,
I don't pay for it. If you stop treating your
spouse with affection, if you stop paying attention to them,
(17:54):
if you don't take.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Care of them.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
You don't pay in in those ways, the relationship will collapse.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And we shouldn't stigmatize people who sell sex or people
who buy sex.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
And that is not an instant way out of the
insul to solve the insul problem. It's a generational way
to move in a direction where there are fewer in
cells because men don't stew in sexual denial and anger
and resentment because they have no outlet. They might have
an outlet if they could see without being angry with
they're angry at sex workers.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Seems hard to separate those two, but I appreciate you trying.
Why do you have so much empathy, Dan? What's going
on there? It seems like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
You know, every time a religious conservatives gets in my
face about my writing my column I always challenge them
to read a hundred of my columns and then tell
me that what's animating them isn't do unto others as
you would have them do unto you. Whatever it is
that you want to do, whether you want a vanilla
sex in the context of a monogamous heterosexual marriage that's
(18:49):
sealed in a church, or you want to have crazy
sex and a sex Dungeon in Berlin. It should be consensual.
Everyone should leave feeling better about themselves. You shouldn't use
people or lie to people. You shouldn't abuse people, manipulate people.
That applies whatever your relationship or preferred relationship looks like. Okay,
And that's the advice I give, which I think it
comes from a deeply moral place and is tied to
my religious upbringing.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, I does feel like sex is my right
in the Bible Old Testament, the one that I believe.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Right, the Bible that also says that you can murder
your dissiputed children. Yes, the Bible is not a guide
to how we should live. The Bible got the easiest
moral test humanity has ever faced wrong, and that was slavery.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
They were probably getting there, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And also Dan, you know we were. Dan Finklson and
I have been talking and maybe because I know you
produce a lot of content, you have Hollywood connections. Yeah,
we've been talking about rewriting the Bible to kind of
model it after The Fast and the Furious franchise. So
it's just packed with action. And Jesus looks more like
the Rock, you know, and he doesn't die at the
end like a skinny ass loser. What do you think
you want to get on board with us?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think that might have legs.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
There's a thing called muscular Christianity that some fundamentalist evangelical
men are promoting, where they think that turned the other
cheek and love thy neighbor, love thy enemy stuff is weak.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I always thought the stuff that if you just got
rid of Jesus and any of that nice stuff, then
you've got a good story.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I mean that the whole story is about Jesus, the
New Testament. You don't have a story, That's what I'm saying.
You pull out that one guy, He's just one guy.
You pull him out, then you're rocking.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Then you've got the Old Testament God, and that guy's
virtuous of lot to hand his two daughters over to
the mob in Sodom to rate.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Wow, that that was what a virtuous man would do.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
You cannot bible me. My dad was a preacher. I
went to a seminary. I was going to be a priest.
I read the Bible cover to cover like probably six
times because I'm a weirdo. So okay, we can go
Bible to Bible. Dan Omano if you want, but you're
going to lose that argument.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I think Dan Dan just twist the problems. I'm not
the Bible again. He's just really well prepared for everything.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I'm surprised questions before I just.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Did it at all because I feel like he's kicking you.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
But I feel like he has.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You know, Dan, you had started the It Gets Better
Project to remind LGBT youth that their lives would likely
get better. But you know, given the state of where
things are at now, have you thought about changing the
name to you know, it stays relatively the same, or
given who's in power now, it might actually get worse.
Have you considered moving to Berlin? Are you guys playing
with that at all as a possible change in title.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
You know, the message of the It Gets Better Project
was not just sit there and wait and everything's going
to improve around you. If you actually watch the videos,
it's a lot of gay, lesbian by trans adults talking
about the things they did in their lives, the things
they said to their parents that worked, the things, you know,
the strategies they employed to improve their own situation and
the situations often of other queer people. And so when
(21:36):
the shit hits the fan. It doesn't mean things you know.
It doesn't mean it doesn't get better potentially, but it
does mean you have to get out there and fight
to make it better. It got better around the rights
of partnered you know, same sex couples, because we fought
for marriage equality. It didn't get better by accident.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I just I wanted to ask you something because Dan,
I'm a you call a semen retainer. I retain my semen.
I think it gives me just major superpowers. I'm full
of energy, I'm wound up, and I'm wondering. Have you
looked in any of the research with semen retention? Do
you seemen retain? Are you a retainer? Or am I
just making myself suffer unnecessarily?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
I guess you could call me a receptacle, but not
a retainer.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Oh okay, it's actually bad for you. Ejaculation flushes the
prostate gland, and people who ejaculate more often are far
less likely to develop prostate cancer pros if you and
your wife and her Brazilian boyfriend are practicing come control
and orgasm denial, if part of what makes that relationship
work for you is being the cuckold or the denied one.
(22:38):
So I'm totally for orgasm denial. I have a friend
who wears a male chastity device and has n't had
an orgasm for two.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Years, and he has improb knows.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
That he's at higher risk of prostate cancer. Okay, but
the pleasure of orgasm denial and being locked is worth
that increased risk, and that's legitimate. You know, sex is
the only thing where we say any increased risk of
a bad outcome is I legitimate. People go skiing and
slam into trees and die. People jump out of airplanes
and their parachutes don't open. People take risk for pleasure
(23:08):
all the time, and you're allowed to do the same
thing when it comes to your sex life. You just
need to be cognizant of it. And there's no data
to support that. Seem in retention gives you more energy.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Well, I would challenge you to just listen, Okay, not
come for seven days and you tell me you are
not ready to rock because there's a jolt of energy.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Stop telling our guests to not come.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I just want to look. I'm not trying a man's
blain Dan Savage on his own penis, but I will
tell you just.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
A little something about gesticulating. I'm just clearly man's plaining.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Look, if you didn't masturby to disgusting pornography every day, Dan.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm asy to married couples having sex in their beds.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I don't believe you. And I have a way to
test it, if you're brave enough. There's a device you
can hook a man's penis up to that measures his
arousal levels. I like that, and you can be shown
different kinds of pornography and the slightest flow of blood
into the penis is measured, and then we will know, oh,
what actually turns you on, whether it's heterosexual sex, gay sex,
(24:04):
whether it's cuckolding, whether it's BDSM, whether it's femdom, whatever
it might be.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I can't agree. I don't agree to that, but not
for the reasons that you guys think. I'm totally cool
with it. I think it's a great idea, but the technology,
you know, I don't like to use tech that isn't
fully proven, So that's why I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
It is fully proven, we can measure, scientifically measure your
arousal patterns and determine what it is exactly that arouses you,
but you're not brave enough to do that. Religious conservatives
who want to tell everybody else how they should have
sex who they should have sex with, are never brave
enough to stick their penises in one of these devices,
because they know then we will see that they are
most likely externalizing an internal conflict. I have never met
(24:45):
a man who told me, as a gay man, that
I shouldn't be having gay sex, who on some level
wasn't didn't resent me because I was having the sex
that he didn't allow himself to have that he wanted
to and couldn't let himself have. And so this desire
to control me, to tell gay people what we should
and shouldn't do, was really just somebody attempting to control themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
The projection interesting. I love putting my penis into devices.
It kind of sounds like sexual biohacking. I mean, I'd
love to know the intricacies of what exactly penis in
any anything. If it's going to help improve my penis
and my life, why not not even that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I feel like you, just as a biohacker, have said, Hey,
I saw a hole, I put my penis in it,
and then I ran down The result.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
In a victim of a few cults. I've fallen for
a few, you know, con men in my day, and
sometimes those cults can lead to some sort of weird
penish contraptions. But this sounds scientifically backed and legit. So
I think we should do that together. I don't want
we could see.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I don't think we should.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I think we should. The tech isn't quite there, the
text definitely there.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Dan is afraid of what we will find out. George,
you're not afraid there.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
You go find out.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
And that's the problem is that you're You don't let
fear because fear is very useful, and fear guides me
when I say that's too scary, I shouldn't do it.
Then I noticed p Meanwhile, George, he doesn't have a
good enough fear response. It might get swindled by occult leaders.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
But you don't know when to stop because it's not
enough for you, because of your fears to make your
own choices. Because of your fears, you want to impose
choices on others. Don't tell other people what they're not
allowed to do because you think it's not the right
choice for you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Just have a trouble understanding what kind of society are
you envisioning It seems like there's no rules here. You know,
everyone is able to do what they want to do.
It's it's infuriating in some ways, isn't that what you
That's what I look at it. I say, freedom, freedom
of choice, that's what you're saying. So we agree on that.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Well, I don't want to live in a country with
three hundred and fifty million caligulas. You get to make
your own choices so long as they don't negatively impact others.
Me having a husband doesn't negatively impact you at all.
There's some people on the riot who claim that that
has a psychological yes, impact like that, knowing they have
to share the country.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yes, just waking up, I wake up a little bit
before my alarm clock. No, it can't be real. And
then I look and yes, you're allowed to get gaming.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Then you look at the foot of the bed and
there's a married gig uple making out.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
That's what I imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's those are my night and I think, but I
think that might speak to more about your inner desires
that you are too afraid to understand. No, you don't
care about your field, they don't care about yours. Either
I have a question, Dan, let's just be honest. You know,
are uncut dicks better than cut dicks?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
And why there's a lot of nerve endings in a foreskin.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
A lot of men wind up with what are called
two tight circumcisions, where the skin when they're eracked on
their penis is pulled so taut that it can be painful,
that they can be cracking and scarring. A lot of
men wind up needing more intense stimulation because their foreskin
is gone, then a mouth of vagina or a bot
(27:40):
can provide, and so are only ever able to make
themselves come with their own right hand.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Which is fine.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
If that's how your dick works, that's how your dick works,
you should embrace it and not feel bad about it.
But yeah, the foreskin is a natural masturbation sleeve. It's
the original masturbation sleeve. We literally sell masturbation sleeves to
men as toys to replace the foreskins we chopped off
them as infants.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Wow. So, Dan, maybe that's why American values, that's why
maybe you're so at such a hard time sexually because
you have a scarred penis.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Maybe so, But I think what I like what Dan
is saying here is you take a foreskin as soon
as a baby's born in America, then when they grow up,
you charge the money for what the sexual precluding that
they which is great, is a great example of capitalism.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Dan. I've had some advances from what I assume we're
gay men in the past, and just you know, people
have had no people like me. I've never listen, Dan, Okay, sorry,
why don't you come out with me when I invite?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
You?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Stay at home watching weird?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I just don't think this is true, but go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Here's the thing I can see it.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Respect I I'm not interested sexually, or I don't think
I am, but I do like the attention. Now, what
does that say about me? Dan? Does that say that
I have interest in homosexual activity? Does that just say
that I'm a narcissist? Or am I just a narcissistic
gay man?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
It means you're not threatened by gay men's attention. It
means you're secure in your sexuality, and because you're not homophobic,
you don't feel violated by some guy thinking you might
be gay. Right, you know, when a guy hits on you,
he's thinking that you might be gay, and if you
think being gay is terrible, you might have, you know,
an angry reaction to someone thinking you could be a homosexual,
(29:08):
because a homosexual is a terrible thing to be. If
you don't feel that way and some guy hits on you,
it just means there's somebody out there in the world
who thought you were hot. Straight men don't hear enough
praise about themselves as all we really do.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
We really don't.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Straight men give compliments to women, women receive them. And
it's not women who will compliment to men in that way,
particularly in a place like Los Angeles. It's men who
will compliment other men in that way. And because you're
not a homophobe, you can hear it without being angered
by it.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think, Dan, I just want to say, considering you're
really unhealthy and disgusting lifestyle, I think you're a very
good looking guy, like you should look fifteen years older
than you are. You know, so that's a compliment. I
think you're very handsome, especially considering how unhealthy you eat,
how unhealthy you live. Your life only fast emotion. It's
the fastest, and I want to be done with it right.
I feel like we also talked enough about you know,
George's good qualities. I feel like we can move on
(29:53):
past that. I was having a great time, right, because yes,
I think we hit it off. You know, I really
do think. I think from this conversation, because we are
about to wrap things up in a little bit, I
just think the listener should take away Dan Savage, George Collins,
great connection.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Dan Finkelstein stuck to his guns, has principles and.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Got totally destroyed.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Regular just had a great, good conversation. Rug you got, Regular,
you got good.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Points were made on both sides.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Agree with a lot angry.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
You're not angry.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Angry, Okay, you know there's no reason to be angry
because I know I can edit the conversation to sound
like what I needed to sound like.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And that is what American debate is all about, the
right to edit. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
So for you, Dan, I hope you had a nice time,
and we really appreciate you coming across the aisle.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
The olive branch because the WIT and the IQ on
our side is just very high, crazy high, you know,
so we really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
The olive branch is a fitting symbol, of course, because
olive oil was the first at lubric Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That did not know that. That's what I don't learn
every day.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I don't think we needed to.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
That's a cool fact. I'm going to think about that
every time I put olive oil on bread or cook
with it. Wow. We're trying to keep think civil, but
fuck this way.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Yeah, think about it while you're cooking dinner for your
wife and Brazilian board.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's a great idea. I'm going to do that tonight.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Okay, Well, Dan Savage, thank you so much for being
on man thinkers, keep thinking.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Just don't say listen, Just don't say anything I mean
before an interview.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
What do you mean I threw you out here.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
No, don't say anything before an interview to.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Me, listen, I'm employed to speak the truth. And the
truth is you got totally destroyed by Dan Savage. He
just ran circles around the Bible. He knew more about
the Bible than you did. Dan, and you were religious.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We're back recording. We're back recording, and guy, that was
a fun interview.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That was a great interview.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I did I did you. I had so much fun.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Really, you looked really perturbed the entire time was much fun.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Look like I was like, I was laughing.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You didn't laugh once. I haven't heard you laugh once
on this entire podcast. That's clearly a fake laughter.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
You know it's not the guy was cracking me up.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Give me a natural laugh. That's not a laugh. That's
not a laugh as a human beings not real. Yes,
no one laughs like that. No one streams. Yes when
they laugh.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, because the year it's it's being funny. Well, a
great conversation is really excited.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Said decks were better because you know, I have a
lot of force getting probably too much. It's like really
hard park down there. Yeah, Jesus, it's what do you.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Do with the extra?
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I just kind of droops interesting, you know what I mean.
But I've always wondered I get it snapped. Well, I'm
sure you could kind of get back pull the bag
or inclip it. I can't clip it's very sensitive.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Okay, Well, yeah, a lot of nerve endings. I know
that because my friend Dan Savage. Actually, I'll probably if
you wanted to talk with me with some screenwriting sort
of stuff. So that's going to be pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Guys, look out for that.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
It's an amazing episode. Really, yes, so good. I already
said that, So we got through that. Follow us on
Socials at man thinkers.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
To be saying it was a great episode to our
own podcast.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I said it was a great episode, so I can't
say it.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I'm saying it's great. I said it. You're then trying
to say it, And how do.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You think everyone's trying to twist your word?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
That's what I got out of this, and that's why
I think we should stop interviewing people.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Well, then we don't have a show. You and I
are to talk the whole time for four out of
their minds, listening.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
To the name a subject I could talk about it.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Tell me about gluten.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I don't know the fucking this is?
Speaker 4 (33:10):
This is?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
You shut up.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
We learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
We learned a lot from my friend Dan Samage. I said,
thanks for thinking with us, guys.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Keep thinking, keep thinking. You said, I'm getting sick of
If I'm being honest, you're sick of me. I'm not
even doing anything you don't make in my life worse.
Dan, we should probably promote the socials because it is
not I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm frustrated because we're getting millions of listeners. As far
as I know, we're getting millions of listeners. Right, So
then I look at the socials and I expect to
see millions.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Of followers or at least in the hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
What do we have now, like twenty five?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I think we're two hundred and something, which which, you
know what, You got to start somewhere, right, Hey, guys,
just real quick at man thinkers. Okay, it's just at
man thinkers. We got Twitter, we got Instagram. We've got
to TikTok. Just click. You're so resistance to click. The
problem you click all day. All you do is click.
So go to freaking Instagram and click on the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Don't chuckle to yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
This is funny.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
They need.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This is our life, this is our livelihood.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Push pause, Yes, click the thing, click follow like whatever,
subscribe saying love Adore Team Joint.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Here's the thing, guys, when we have low amounts of followers,
the ads, you're getting terrible quality. It's going to be
really really low quality because they don't want to give
it just bad audio and the products that you're about
to hear are so bad. But if we can get
at like ten thousand followers, boom, we are in a
new tier of ad. Nike Nike. What do you guys
want to hear about Nike?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Those are the best shoes.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I mean, they're the only shoes anyone should ever buy
as far as I'm concerned. If you're wearing anything else here, guys,
follow Nike. Okay, yes, go to Nike back and hit
click the thing. Click on Nike, all right, and don't
think that Nike has Oh, Nike's already established. Guys, Nike
needs your help. You you got to buy your shoes McDonald's.
Go follow McDonald's immediately.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Living your life this way where you think you know
everything and you don't. That's why we're here. Yes, follow
us at Man Thinkers. Man at Man Thinkers.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's the name.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, what shoe should it be? Right?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, you're I forgot the name of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You're listening to the Man Thinkers Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
A show that forges a new roadmap for the modern
man on how to best live life.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm George Collins, a former liberal cuckle.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I'm Dan Finkelstein, a staunch libertarian insect.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
This is a safe space.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
From save spaces.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You blame all your problems on me, and I'm just
trying to help you. I've been your friends through thick
and thin. It's crazy that I'm still co hosting this
podcast with you. But how badly you're getting tracked the
mud in the public eye. No, your harassment cases. I
should have cut you out years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Try try to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
What do you mean to do?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Here's what we'll do an episode, okay where it's half me,
half you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's always half me, half youw But I'm saying no, I.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Do my own little portion. We draw line in the sand.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I'd love to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And we draw line in the sand and let the
thinkers vote which one was better.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I guarantee you.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Then if I lose, I'll kill myself.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, don't do that. Why not anyway, anyway, we've got
a great episode. We have a really good episode for
you guys. We got Dan Savage, one of He is
a savage man. Let me tell you this guy is
tough as nails. He's a great guy. He hosts a
sex show called the Savage Love Cast, which is disgusting. Well,
I actually like his show, and I think you should
listen to it more because I think it's very popular.
(02:51):
We're very lucky to go. Oh yeah, his numbers blow
hards out of the water. Dan, really, yes, he has
so many more followers.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But isn't he just talking about like sex and stuff?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I mean sex, Hell, what are you talking about, Strue?
I mean, I actually think that the fact that you
don't you've never had sex, holds us back because we
could talk about sex more if you had had it.
All right, let's talk about sex now. Okay, what is sex?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
It is? I know what sex is, so why are
we even talking about it?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Okay? But ext question. I don't know that you know what?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You smell it? You know it if you smell it anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I you know what, Dan, I was thinking about this
the other day, because you're always open to provocative ideas.
Oh my god, you know yeah, I feel like your propagation,
that's your.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Whole mott how I live.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I actually don't know if I would exist without it
exactly exactly, And I have nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I'll just poke someone.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And that's why, Dan, I really think you're gonna like
this because I was thinking about the me too moment
the other day.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Oh my god, I mean I was thinking about them too.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I hate them. I hate that movement.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It just doesn't make any sense, really annoying that I
have Feminismazis, Feminazis.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And I don't want to have to think about that
stuff and the me too. Mom's like, no, no, you
have to, like, you know, investigate your own but I'm like,
shut up, no, I don't want to think about this stuff.
And here's the thing though, while thinking about it, annoid
as I was, I think I figured out a way
to put an end to the me too movement in
a way that even Feminazis will get behind.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Really okay, yes, okay, so I can't imagine bring with
them on anything.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You're gonna love my logic here, you know, the me
too slogan Believe women, right.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I mean I've heard many guys who say that they're feminists,
but it's really just, you.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Know, so they can.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They're just trying to get late. And that brings us
to today's big question.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do all women wish they were their own?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Feces?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Cure aunts when children be safer if everyone's stopped having
seen Joe Biden will be the first ghost press.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Washing your hands actually bad for me?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Why your haunted house is so scary? Should the me
too slogan believe women be changed to believe everyone?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Hmmm, that's really interesting. So that would that would include
men exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So if a woman comes forward and accuses a powerful
man of harassment, you absolutely believe her, like the original
slogan implores. But when the man who is accused of
this abhorrent behavior responds by saying he he's innocent, believe
him too. Wow.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So you believe the accusers and you believe the accused exactly,
because then you are treating both men and women equally,
which is what the feminazis wanted. In the first they
say they don't exactly, You're right, they say, believe women.
You say, I will believe men too, exactly, believe all
of us exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I mean it sound logic, but I could still see,
you know, the regressive left saying, well, you should only
believe the accusers, but you know the accused have a
right to be believed to absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And remember, with this philosophy, you're still honoring women who
come forward initially by believing them, you believe their original accusations.
I'm not saying you're not.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Saying that always believe women, always believe, always believe. I
think that's it.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
But you know, then you're just believing the men after
the fact when they declare their innocence.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Exactly right. I believe the woman, but I'm innocent. I
believe you too, exactly. Just assume everyone is telling the
truth all the time. And you know, Dan, I was
thinking this could really help you out, you know, given
your situation that you're in right now.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I am.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I am in that boat right now.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know, I've gotten several women accusing me of sexual harassment,
and you know what, I believe them.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
You totally believe them. I fully believe what you were there.
I was there, know it's true.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I can I remember if their description is accurate, which
typically it is.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I say, oh, yeah, I know, you know what I do.
Remember that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I believe you exactly, But you also believe yourself when
you say I didn't do it exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Innocent.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Problems solved, you don't even have to go to court.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
That really simplifies an otherwise complicated issue, and I can
hear women are massive female audience right now thinking well,
that's not fair, because then women will never get their justice.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No. No, when a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment,
if that man says, hey, I did that, yes, we
believe that guy when he says he did it. Yes.
So the men who come forward and say, hey, look
i'm a sexual harassmer.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Lock me up, lock him up.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But when someone says, well, you know, I don't want
to be locked up. So I don't think I did that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I don't think I did that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
She could be an insane person that should be locked up.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'm just believing everyone every step of the way. So
she says, hey, Dan Finkelstein did this to me. I'm
on her side. I'm on her side one hundred percent.
Then I go hey Dan, what happened in there? And
then you go nothing, I don't know if she's nuts.
And I go, oh, okay, you're right, and I believe
you too. I believe you too, and I move on
with my day.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And then you say, hey, i'm listening to you, Linda.
You know I changed her name, don't Oh no, there
wasn't there a Nancy. Ye it was Linda, Right, Yeah,
you know I should. I could just talk to my
lawyer about this.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Oh you have a lawyer, now, I thought you were
going to represent yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well I am, because you know, I've had a really
part time finding a lawyer who's willing to take the
case because you know, the amount of evidence against me
is so large, right right.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's that. Didn't a few more women come forward recently
or something?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, interns or somebody. There's always intern that's the issue.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
It is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I didn't realize, Well I should say this for the courtroom,
but I didn't realize that interns, could, you know, because they're.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Not real employee.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
If you're not getting it's an unpaid internship. I should
be free to talk to you anyway I want.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know you're basically you're not an employee, an indentured
service exactly, and I should be able to talk to
you the way I talk to women on the street. Yes,
if you could be accused of sexual harassment by random
women who you just walk by on the street, you
would really be in trouble. But you can't, right, well,
you probably could, but they just they're so confused by
what you're doing. They just sort of want away and
they're like that guy's crazy. And I don't remember those
things happening anyway, so it didn't happen, right, because I
(08:04):
believe you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Thank you, you know, because I mean these interns, Yeah,
they just don't even matter. I mean, who cares about interns?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I don't, although I do believe them, Yes, me.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Too, Oh my goodness. So you could mean they tell
that they're very true. Terms are very honest people, very truthful.
But I just meant I should talk to myself later
as my own lawyer, because I think this has really
sounded it is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And I also really like the argument you were explaining
to me earlier about how you're a virgin, right, and
so yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I'm a virgin.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Therefore, you know, how could I sexually harass someone if
I don't know what sex is?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
That?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
See, that's the type of four D chest the radical
left can't hand.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They wouldn't even know what to do with it, and
it's it's just outside their comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Exactly, Can a child sexually harassed an adult? No, they
don't know what's the child? Can't You're just a big
baby you're just a big baby. You're a baby boy
technically via sex terms, if we're talking in sex terms, Yes,
I am an immature minor, you're a child, you're any
They accused me of sexual harassment, they're pedip because again,
remember I'm a minor in rest case, and they're saying
(09:03):
that I was involved in some kind of sexual situation that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
They put me in. Exactly, they're the ones accusing me.
I just think it's it's going to be easy.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
When you're as smart as you are and as I am,
life is easy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Honestly it is. Anyway, though, guys. Yeah, so believe everyone,
believe every really really brilliant thing. And I think that's
going to bring equality to the sexes finally in a
way that has not we've not seen before.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
We've seen a lot of fake equality, pseudo equality that
women have pushed, but we haven't seen the male version
of what equality could look at exactly. Well, guys, we
have a great show, one of the.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Best shows I think we've ever had, to be honest.
What we have to do first, though, is we got
to talk about ads. And the first ad is for
our show.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Follow Man Thinkers on the socials email us at man
Thinkers podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
These guys, we are desperate.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
We've got a very interesting Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
This is exciting because this guest Thinkers is probably the
biggest guest we've ever had in terms of following, in
terms of influence, in terms of.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
How much I dislike their views for you.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
For me, I really hit it off of him. I
thought he was a great guy. We are, of course
talking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I hit it off as well. Well, sure it was
a big time just it was awesome so much.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I don't know if you like you that much, but
that's all right.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
We are talking.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We're talking about Dan Savage, the journalist, the podcaster, Yes,
the host of Savage Love. It's relationship and sex advice podcast.
It's one of the most popular podcasts in the world.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
We should actually talk to him about how to get
the numbers up, because I feel like, well, we just
talked to him. I know we should have asked him,
but like now we're right, well, you're not friends with
why I could I'll reach out. I think I don't
think he likes you, Dan.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
He respects me though, because we don't like each other.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You made terrible points and he destroyed you think you're
gonna see just this is old fashioned debate, a debate,
just a regular debate. But anyway, guys, check out our
interview with Dan Savage.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Dan Savage, thank thank you so much for being on
Man Thinkers.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
It's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
That's wonderful. Let's just promise to keep this conversation civil.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Can we do that.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
I'm more than capable, And like I said, I'm happy
to be here, happy to pull the dick out of
my mouth long enough to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh wow, say I respect that. That's a power move
right off the top, just talking about Dixon mouths. I
think that's great.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Anyway, Dan, So you're a groomer. You've been a groomer.
You started way back when, so I'd like, wait, wait.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Wait, wait, I have to interrupt the groomer narrative here. Okay,
the first time I had sex, I was a miner
and it was a woman in her twenties who had
sex with me. Well, respect, So if anybody got groomed here,
it's me. And if anybody got groomed, I got groomed
by a heterosexual. And you're abusing the term groomer, which
is a word that has a meaning, which is someone
(11:46):
who ingratiates themselves with a child and a child's family
in order to make that child feel safe with that person,
so that they then then get away with sexually.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Assaulting that child. I've never groomed anyone.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I thought it was in your profile. I thought it
was in your bio. Sure that's not the professional listing.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Okay, well that's just a mistake. That's what I thought
on me. But I think somebody, I think Jenna sent
me some notes with that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
But anyway, I's like, Dan, move, just blame the woman.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Now, Dan, people know you as giving sex advice. Why
did you want to destroy American family values? What was
what motivated you to do that.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Most of my advice is about how to make a
relationship work, and a lot of the advice I give
is to partner people, many of whom have children, about
how to figure out how to make that relationship work,
what compromises can be made, what accommodations can be made
so that that family doesn't break apart. I am sometimes
labeled the sexual deviant by the right I was going
to say, yet I have probably saved more marriages and
(12:44):
kept more families intact by encouraging people to meet each
other's needs sexually and to turn a blind eye to
what they you know, needs they can't meet and making
accommodation so that the relationship, which is I think more
important than sexual exclusivity, survives.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
So I just got to say, Dan, would I would
like to speak before you.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, I just want to say I think Dan Savage
just did a little bit of a mic drop moment
that was very eloquent. It was very well.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I have to say, personally, what's frustrating right now just
about the rhetoric that's going on is I don't like
how you're kind of twisting my questions and then giving
sort of an eloquent response.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Do you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You don't like that. He gave a good response, but
that's to your lifelost citization.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But he twisted, That's what I'm saying, Like he's twisting
my words, he's taking it out of content.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think he just school Actually, Dan Savage, I should
ask you because you just mentioned helping relationships meet halfway.
I'm in an open relationship now. It's going very well
for my wife. She has a lot of attention for men.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You're just trying to ask him. This is what he
does on his show.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
But I know he's an expert. I would like some
of his trying to get some free advice. I've had
a very hard time attracting attention from other women. Again,
my wife having a great time out every night, lots
of cool guys, Paolo Brazilian dude, so handsome living at
our house right now. But I have had a very
tough time. You know, is it harder for the men
in heterosexual open relationships in general? And if so, what
can I do and we do to kind of bolster
(14:01):
the numbers here.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yeah, it is harder for men and open relationships, open
heterosexual relationships to find. You know, it's easier to find
men who'll fuck married women than it is to find
women who'll fuck married men.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Respect.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
It's just a truth, and there's a lot of reasons
why that might be. It's what you guys can do
together though, to solve for it. It's in your wife's
own best interest that you be as satisfied in this
open relationship as she is. So maybe she goes with
you to some sex parties, maybe she arranges to have
some threesomes with you.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Again, we're trying to keep things civil here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
This is very civil, This is very helpful. Yeah, what
are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
This is literally we're talking about organized heterosexual swinging.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm trying to determine how I feel about that.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Your wife is going to want to help game this
system so that you're sexually satisfied in this relationship as
she is, or the wheels will come off. Sometimes a
heterosexual couple open the relationship. The wife's out there all
the time, meaning hot Brazilian guys and maybe move in,
and the husband is sex starve and begins to resent
agreeing to the open the relationship. And the paradox is
(14:59):
it's offen the husband who's just opening the relationship, and
the wife is reluctant, and then it's YACHTSI for the wife.
The wife wins that game and she's really happy that
the relationship is open, and the husband has regrets.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So basically what you're saying is, Dana, you'd be like, hey,
you got to convince your female friends to have sex
with me, otherwise this isn't gonna work.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, that's great. I bet your wife knows some Mary.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Put the pressure on her.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Your wife probably has some girlfriends who've complained to her
that they haven't gotten laid in a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
You could be the hero man.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well now, Dan, Now why is it okay for him
to say, Hey, why get me some people to have
sex with otherwise I'm out of here? But it's not
okay for me. You know, a single insult. I say
that to people all the time. I say, somebody have
sex with me, or you know, there's going to be
trouble and it's not working for me.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So isn't that a double standard?
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Look the relationship that your co host is trying to
make work, that's something that they're working on together. They
want to make sure each partner is invested in the
other's pleasure and satisfaction. You trying to impose on I
guess every woman on the planet. Yes, some idea that
you have a right to sex. You don't have a
right to sex. The two people in a partnership have
a responsibility in making sure it's satisfying for both so
(16:00):
that it's functional. You don't get to impose your in
cel dick on some woman because you're here. Society owes
you doesn't hold to blow a load in go get
a flash light.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I just feel like I can't even flirt anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You never have flirted, Dan, That's what I've tried. You
don't know that.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I feel like you can't anymore.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Flirting is something two people do together. It is not
something you do at some person.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Does interesting.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
You don't flirt on somebody. You can jack off on somebody,
but you can't flirt on somebody or at somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I've always said you can jack off onto somebody. You
can always jack off onto somebody. That's important to remember
any for the listeners, the thinkers out there, If you
take anything away from this conversation, just remember you can
always jack off onto somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Prepositions.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It's all about it. I say, mister Savage that Dan
our Dan. His in celibacy is driving him insane. In celibacy, Yes,
and I think you should just take care of it,
you know, go to Nevada.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Yes, absolutely, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right, Well, do you think that would just kind of
relieve a look, because I think you're just tense, You're
just wound up. I think you need to have sex.
So there's professional consensually obviously, but only if.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
You can leave your resentment outside the door.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Is that part of the deal.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
The solution for violent angry insels isn't throw sex workers
at them, because sex workers don't deserve to be locked
in rooms with men who resent and despise and hate
them and want.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
To fuck them.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Those those are the three.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
I do think that all sex at some level is transactional.
All human relationships at some level or transactional. We all
pay for it, and I think there'd be fewer angry
insuels in the world if we didn't stigmatize people who
might have to pay for it because they're socially disabled.
Perhaps in a way, you know, we all recognize. Like
Helen Hunt, I think when an oscar for a movie
about a sex worker who meets the need for physical
(17:32):
intimacy of a profoundly physically disabled man, and that celebrate it.
We should celebrate when a sex worker is able to
meet the physical needs of a profoundly socially disabled person, right, Dan,
I don't agree with that phrase and provide them with
physical comfort. And anybody who looks at their marriage and says,
I don't pay for it. If you stop treating your
spouse with affection, if you stop paying attention to them,
(17:54):
if you don't take.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Care of them.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
You don't pay in in those ways, the relationship will collapse.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And we shouldn't stigmatize people who sell sex or people
who buy sex.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
And that is not an instant way out of the
insul to solve the insul problem. It's a generational way
to move in a direction where there are fewer in
cells because men don't stew in sexual denial and anger
and resentment because they have no outlet. They might have
an outlet if they could see without being angry with
they're angry at sex workers.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Seems hard to separate those two, but I appreciate you trying.
Why do you have so much empathy, Dan? What's going
on there? It seems like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
You know, every time a religious conservatives gets in my
face about my writing my column I always challenge them
to read a hundred of my columns and then tell
me that what's animating them isn't do unto others as
you would have them do unto you. Whatever it is
that you want to do, whether you want a vanilla
sex in the context of a monogamous heterosexual marriage that's
(18:49):
sealed in a church, or you want to have crazy
sex and a sex Dungeon in Berlin. It should be consensual.
Everyone should leave feeling better about themselves. You shouldn't use
people or lie to people. You shouldn't abuse people, manipulate people.
That applies whatever your relationship or preferred relationship looks like. Okay,
And that's the advice I give, which I think it
comes from a deeply moral place and is tied to
my religious upbringing.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, I does feel like sex is my right
in the Bible Old Testament, the one that I believe.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Right, the Bible that also says that you can murder
your dissiputed children. Yes, the Bible is not a guide
to how we should live. The Bible got the easiest
moral test humanity has ever faced wrong, and that was slavery.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
They were probably getting there, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And also Dan, you know we were. Dan Finklson and
I have been talking and maybe because I know you
produce a lot of content, you have Hollywood connections. Yeah,
we've been talking about rewriting the Bible to kind of
model it after The Fast and the Furious franchise. So
it's just packed with action. And Jesus looks more like
the Rock, you know, and he doesn't die at the
end like a skinny ass loser. What do you think
you want to get on board with us?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think that might have legs.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
There's a thing called muscular Christianity that some fundamentalist evangelical
men are promoting, where they think that turned the other
cheek and love thy neighbor, love thy enemy stuff is weak.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I always thought the stuff that if you just got
rid of Jesus and any of that nice stuff, then
you've got a good story.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I mean that the whole story is about Jesus, the
New Testament. You don't have a story, That's what I'm saying.
You pull out that one guy, He's just one guy.
You pull him out, then you're rocking.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Then you've got the Old Testament God, and that guy's
virtuous of lot to hand his two daughters over to
the mob in Sodom to rate.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Wow, that that was what a virtuous man would do.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
You cannot bible me. My dad was a preacher. I
went to a seminary. I was going to be a priest.
I read the Bible cover to cover like probably six
times because I'm a weirdo. So okay, we can go
Bible to Bible. Dan Omano if you want, but you're
going to lose that argument.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I think Dan Dan just twist the problems. I'm not
the Bible again. He's just really well prepared for everything.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I'm surprised questions before I just.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Did it at all because I feel like he's kicking you.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
But I feel like he has.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You know, Dan, you had started the It Gets Better
Project to remind LGBT youth that their lives would likely
get better. But you know, given the state of where
things are at now, have you thought about changing the
name to you know, it stays relatively the same, or
given who's in power now, it might actually get worse.
Have you considered moving to Berlin? Are you guys playing
with that at all as a possible change in title.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
You know, the message of the It Gets Better Project
was not just sit there and wait and everything's going
to improve around you. If you actually watch the videos,
it's a lot of gay, lesbian by trans adults talking
about the things they did in their lives, the things
they said to their parents that worked, the things, you know,
the strategies they employed to improve their own situation and
the situations often of other queer people. And so when
(21:36):
the shit hits the fan. It doesn't mean things you know.
It doesn't mean it doesn't get better potentially, but it
does mean you have to get out there and fight
to make it better. It got better around the rights
of partnered you know, same sex couples, because we fought
for marriage equality. It didn't get better by accident.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I just I wanted to ask you something because Dan,
I'm a you call a semen retainer. I retain my semen.
I think it gives me just major superpowers. I'm full
of energy, I'm wound up, and I'm wondering. Have you
looked in any of the research with semen retention? Do
you seemen retain? Are you a retainer? Or am I
just making myself suffer unnecessarily?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
I guess you could call me a receptacle, but not
a retainer.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Oh okay, it's actually bad for you. Ejaculation flushes the
prostate gland, and people who ejaculate more often are far
less likely to develop prostate cancer pros if you and
your wife and her Brazilian boyfriend are practicing come control
and orgasm denial, if part of what makes that relationship
work for you is being the cuckold or the denied one.
(22:38):
So I'm totally for orgasm denial. I have a friend
who wears a male chastity device and has n't had
an orgasm for two.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Years, and he has improb knows.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
That he's at higher risk of prostate cancer. Okay, but
the pleasure of orgasm denial and being locked is worth
that increased risk, and that's legitimate. You know, sex is
the only thing where we say any increased risk of
a bad outcome is I legitimate. People go skiing and
slam into trees and die. People jump out of airplanes
and their parachutes don't open. People take risk for pleasure
(23:08):
all the time, and you're allowed to do the same
thing when it comes to your sex life. You just
need to be cognizant of it. And there's no data
to support that. Seem in retention gives you more energy.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Well, I would challenge you to just listen, Okay, not
come for seven days and you tell me you are
not ready to rock because there's a jolt of energy.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Stop telling our guests to not come.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I just want to look. I'm not trying a man's
blain Dan Savage on his own penis, but I will
tell you just.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
A little something about gesticulating. I'm just clearly man's plaining.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Look, if you didn't masturby to disgusting pornography every day, Dan.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm asy to married couples having sex in their beds.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I don't believe you. And I have a way to
test it, if you're brave enough. There's a device you
can hook a man's penis up to that measures his
arousal levels. I like that, and you can be shown
different kinds of pornography and the slightest flow of blood
into the penis is measured, and then we will know, oh,
what actually turns you on, whether it's heterosexual sex, gay sex,
(24:04):
whether it's cuckolding, whether it's BDSM, whether it's femdom, whatever
it might be.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I can't agree. I don't agree to that, but not
for the reasons that you guys think. I'm totally cool
with it. I think it's a great idea, but the technology,
you know, I don't like to use tech that isn't
fully proven, So that's why I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
It is fully proven, we can measure, scientifically measure your
arousal patterns and determine what it is exactly that arouses you,
but you're not brave enough to do that. Religious conservatives
who want to tell everybody else how they should have
sex who they should have sex with, are never brave
enough to stick their penises in one of these devices,
because they know then we will see that they are
most likely externalizing an internal conflict. I have never met
(24:45):
a man who told me, as a gay man, that
I shouldn't be having gay sex, who on some level
wasn't didn't resent me because I was having the sex
that he didn't allow himself to have that he wanted
to and couldn't let himself have. And so this desire
to control me, to tell gay people what we should
and shouldn't do, was really just somebody attempting to control themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
The projection interesting. I love putting my penis into devices.
It kind of sounds like sexual biohacking. I mean, I'd
love to know the intricacies of what exactly penis in
any anything. If it's going to help improve my penis
and my life, why not not even that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I feel like you, just as a biohacker, have said, Hey,
I saw a hole, I put my penis in it,
and then I ran down The result.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
In a victim of a few cults. I've fallen for
a few, you know, con men in my day, and
sometimes those cults can lead to some sort of weird
penish contraptions. But this sounds scientifically backed and legit. So
I think we should do that together. I don't want
we could see.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
I don't think we should.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I think we should. The tech isn't quite there, the
text definitely there.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Dan is afraid of what we will find out. George,
you're not afraid there.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
You go find out.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
And that's the problem is that you're You don't let
fear because fear is very useful, and fear guides me
when I say that's too scary, I shouldn't do it.
Then I noticed p Meanwhile, George, he doesn't have a
good enough fear response. It might get swindled by occult leaders.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
But you don't know when to stop because it's not
enough for you, because of your fears to make your
own choices. Because of your fears, you want to impose
choices on others. Don't tell other people what they're not
allowed to do because you think it's not the right
choice for you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Just have a trouble understanding what kind of society are
you envisioning It seems like there's no rules here. You know,
everyone is able to do what they want to do.
It's it's infuriating in some ways, isn't that what you
That's what I look at it. I say, freedom, freedom
of choice, that's what you're saying. So we agree on that.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Well, I don't want to live in a country with
three hundred and fifty million caligulas. You get to make
your own choices so long as they don't negatively impact others.
Me having a husband doesn't negatively impact you at all.
There's some people on the riot who claim that that
has a psychological yes, impact like that, knowing they have
to share the country.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yes, just waking up, I wake up a little bit
before my alarm clock. No, it can't be real. And
then I look and yes, you're allowed to get gaming.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Then you look at the foot of the bed and
there's a married gig uple making out.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
That's what I imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's those are my night and I think, but I
think that might speak to more about your inner desires
that you are too afraid to understand. No, you don't
care about your field, they don't care about yours. Either
I have a question, Dan, let's just be honest. You know,
are uncut dicks better than cut dicks?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
And why there's a lot of nerve endings in a foreskin.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
A lot of men wind up with what are called
two tight circumcisions, where the skin when they're eracked on
their penis is pulled so taut that it can be painful,
that they can be cracking and scarring. A lot of
men wind up needing more intense stimulation because their foreskin
is gone, then a mouth of vagina or a bot
(27:40):
can provide, and so are only ever able to make
themselves come with their own right hand.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Which is fine.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
If that's how your dick works, that's how your dick works,
you should embrace it and not feel bad about it.
But yeah, the foreskin is a natural masturbation sleeve. It's
the original masturbation sleeve. We literally sell masturbation sleeves to
men as toys to replace the foreskins we chopped off
them as infants.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Wow. So, Dan, maybe that's why American values, that's why
maybe you're so at such a hard time sexually because
you have a scarred penis.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Maybe so, But I think what I like what Dan
is saying here is you take a foreskin as soon
as a baby's born in America, then when they grow up,
you charge the money for what the sexual precluding that
they which is great, is a great example of capitalism.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Dan. I've had some advances from what I assume we're
gay men in the past, and just you know, people
have had no people like me. I've never listen, Dan, Okay, sorry,
why don't you come out with me when I invite?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
You?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Stay at home watching weird?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I just don't think this is true, but go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Here's the thing I can see it.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Respect I I'm not interested sexually, or I don't think
I am, but I do like the attention. Now, what
does that say about me? Dan? Does that say that
I have interest in homosexual activity? Does that just say
that I'm a narcissist? Or am I just a narcissistic
gay man?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
It means you're not threatened by gay men's attention. It
means you're secure in your sexuality, and because you're not homophobic,
you don't feel violated by some guy thinking you might
be gay. Right, you know, when a guy hits on you,
he's thinking that you might be gay, and if you
think being gay is terrible, you might have, you know,
an angry reaction to someone thinking you could be a homosexual,
(29:08):
because a homosexual is a terrible thing to be. If
you don't feel that way and some guy hits on you,
it just means there's somebody out there in the world
who thought you were hot. Straight men don't hear enough
praise about themselves as all we really do.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
We really don't.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Straight men give compliments to women, women receive them. And
it's not women who will compliment to men in that way,
particularly in a place like Los Angeles. It's men who
will compliment other men in that way. And because you're
not a homophobe, you can hear it without being angered
by it.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think, Dan, I just want to say, considering you're
really unhealthy and disgusting lifestyle, I think you're a very
good looking guy, like you should look fifteen years older
than you are. You know, so that's a compliment. I
think you're very handsome, especially considering how unhealthy you eat,
how unhealthy you live. Your life only fast emotion. It's
the fastest, and I want to be done with it right.
I feel like we also talked enough about you know,
George's good qualities. I feel like we can move on
(29:53):
past that. I was having a great time, right, because yes,
I think we hit it off. You know, I really
do think. I think from this conversation, because we are
about to wrap things up in a little bit, I
just think the listener should take away Dan Savage, George Collins,
great connection.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Dan Finkelstein stuck to his guns, has principles and.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Got totally destroyed.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Regular just had a great, good conversation. Rug you got, Regular,
you got good.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Points were made on both sides.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Agree with a lot angry.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
You're not angry.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Angry, Okay, you know there's no reason to be angry
because I know I can edit the conversation to sound
like what I needed to sound like.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And that is what American debate is all about, the
right to edit. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
So for you, Dan, I hope you had a nice time,
and we really appreciate you coming across the aisle.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
The olive branch because the WIT and the IQ on
our side is just very high, crazy high, you know,
so we really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
The olive branch is a fitting symbol, of course, because
olive oil was the first at lubric Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That did not know that. That's what I don't learn
every day.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I don't think we needed to.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
That's a cool fact. I'm going to think about that
every time I put olive oil on bread or cook
with it. Wow. We're trying to keep think civil, but
fuck this way.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Yeah, think about it while you're cooking dinner for your
wife and Brazilian board.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's a great idea. I'm going to do that tonight.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Okay, Well, Dan Savage, thank you so much for being
on man thinkers, keep thinking.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Just don't say listen, Just don't say anything I mean
before an interview.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
What do you mean I threw you out here.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
No, don't say anything before an interview to.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Me, listen, I'm employed to speak the truth. And the
truth is you got totally destroyed by Dan Savage. He
just ran circles around the Bible. He knew more about
the Bible than you did. Dan, and you were religious.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We're back recording. We're back recording, and guy, that was
a fun interview.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That was a great interview.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I did I did you. I had so much fun.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Really, you looked really perturbed the entire time was much fun.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Look like I was like, I was laughing.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You didn't laugh once. I haven't heard you laugh once
on this entire podcast. That's clearly a fake laughter.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
You know it's not the guy was cracking me up.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Give me a natural laugh. That's not a laugh. That's
not a laugh as a human beings not real. Yes,
no one laughs like that. No one streams. Yes when
they laugh.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, because the year it's it's being funny. Well, a
great conversation is really excited.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Said decks were better because you know, I have a
lot of force getting probably too much. It's like really
hard park down there. Yeah, Jesus, it's what do you.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Do with the extra?
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I just kind of droops interesting, you know what I mean.
But I've always wondered I get it snapped. Well, I'm
sure you could kind of get back pull the bag
or inclip it. I can't clip it's very sensitive.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Okay, Well, yeah, a lot of nerve endings. I know
that because my friend Dan Savage. Actually, I'll probably if
you wanted to talk with me with some screenwriting sort
of stuff. So that's going to be pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Guys, look out for that.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
It's an amazing episode. Really, yes, so good. I already
said that, So we got through that. Follow us on
Socials at man thinkers.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
To be saying it was a great episode to our
own podcast.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I said it was a great episode, so I can't
say it.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I'm saying it's great. I said it. You're then trying
to say it, And how do.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You think everyone's trying to twist your word?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
That's what I got out of this, and that's why
I think we should stop interviewing people.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Well, then we don't have a show. You and I
are to talk the whole time for four out of
their minds, listening.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
To the name a subject I could talk about it.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Tell me about gluten.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I don't know the fucking this is?
Speaker 4 (33:10):
This is?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
You shut up.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
We learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
We learned a lot from my friend Dan Samage. I said,
thanks for thinking with us, guys.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Keep thinking, keep thinking. You said, I'm getting sick of
If I'm being honest, you're sick of me. I'm not
even doing anything you don't make in my life worse.
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