January 9, 2020 • 40 mins
Charlamagne tha God is one of the most powerful people in media, reaching millions of ears every week as co-host of the nationally syndicated The Breakfast Club morning show. But he’s also a New York Times bestselling author, an outspoken advocate for mental health, and an unapologetically tough interviewer who has no time (or patience) for celebrity spin. This week, Bob sits down with Charlamagne to talk about how a simple piece of advice from his mom helped him transcend the circumstances of his childhood, why presenting his authentic self to the world is so important to him, and why hip hop culture is pop culture. Plus, Charlamagne shares his thoughts on the power of podcasting and why he prefers the intimacy of audio over TV.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Math and Magic production. I heart radio.
The best thing that ever happened to me was I
did not have any radio skills, Like nobody taught me
the traditional way to do radio. So I would just
be talking. I go back and listen. Now it's not
the terrible I was yelling and I was screaming, and
(00:22):
I'm answering the phones, and we just was kicking it
like how we would kick it, you know, in the hood.
And it became very popular in a very short amount
of time. One day in there doing overnights, I said
to myself, I love this. I've never felt passionate about
anything before that. I just knew this is what I
(00:42):
want to do for the rest of my life. I'm
Bob Pippin. Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic
Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, where we explore about
the analytics of marketing and business and the magic, the creative,
(01:03):
the stuff that gets consumers excited and builds the bonds
with brands, businesses, in our case today, personalities. On this episode,
we're going to explore how one person can have an
impact on culture and society. Welcome Charlemagne, the god best
(01:26):
known as the co host of the syndicated radio morning
show The Breakfast Club. He's also on TV, he's in podcasting,
he's on social and he's a best selling author. Charlemagne
was born Leonard Larry McKelvey in Charleston, South Carolina. His
mom was an English teacher and his dad was a
businessman with a wide range of businesses. Charlemagne appears to
(01:47):
have picked up much from both. He got into a
reasonable amount of trouble as a young man and then
decided he was gonna get it together. That led him
through a number of jobs before he discovered his true
calling radio, and it's been in a amazing rides since then. Charlemagne, welcome,
How are you BP? I'm doing well? Okay, So before
we jump into your life, your ideas and your lessons,
(02:08):
let's do you in sixty seconds. Here you go. Do
you prefer New York or l a New York Instagram
or Twitter Instagram, Beach or mountains Beach? Cowboys or Panthers
Cowboys All Day? Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan's. Oh I'm
gonna say, Maggie Johnson, Cats are Dogs, Cats Prince or
Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson, Drake or Kanye. Oh old Kanye
(02:32):
and new Kanye. You know what I'm gonna say. I'm
gonna say Kanye. Okay, it's about to get harder. Smartest person,
you know. I know a lot of smart people. I'm
smart enough to note that I'm not the smartest person
I know. Okay, we'll leave it at that. Childhood hero
Malcolm X. First job I worked at a factory called
Industrial Acoustics Company. Favorite city, Charleston, South Carolina. Secret talent.
(02:56):
I don't even think I have any talents. I don't
know what my thinking on. Favorite TV show probably Martin.
Favorite comic book character, Olvery, Favorite book, The Four Agreements
by Don Miguel Ruis. Favorite food jamaking, food like ox tails,
stuff like that, Salfish Bay Slfish for breakfast. Yes, there
you go. What did you want to be when you're
growing up alive? Okay, here we go. Let's start with
(03:20):
the obvious. How did you get the name Charlemagne the God?
Grown up in monkst going to South Carolina. I was
doing a lot of things I had no business doing.
One of them was selling drugs. When I used to
be on the block hustling, and I would always say
my name was Charles or Charlie. I was reading in
the history book one day in night school and I
saw that Charlemagne was French for Charles the Great, and
I literally just thought it sounded cool. I'm like, oh,
(03:41):
I'm gonna start calling myself Charlomagne, and so that's what
I did. I just started calling myself Charlomagne before the radio.
Oh wait, before radio. This is like, where did the
god come in? It's an offshoot of Islam called the
Five Percent Teachings of Islam, and they teach that the
black man is God and God is a Greek word
derived from the Aramic. It's gumas the ball, which means
(04:01):
whydom screenping beauty, And so I was just like, oh,
that's dope, no. And plus, every wrapper back then was
calling himself the god, whether it was Jay Z calling
himself Jehovah to God. Everybody in Wu Tang was a
god rock him allowed was the guy like all of
him us to call himselves God. So I was just
started calling myself Chalomage the God, which technically makes no
sense because Charlomagne is child is the Great, so it
would be like Charles the Great the God. Well, let's
(04:21):
work really well for it definitely looks good on the
Marquis right. You're wildly successful on the radio as the
co host of the Breakfast Club with DJ MB and
angela Ye. It's heard on stations all over the country,
has heard on the I Heart radio app nationally, It's
seen on Revolt TV. You do other podcasts, you're on TV.
You have millions of Instagram followers, Twitter followers, and of
(04:42):
course you have the Donkey of the Day feature that
everyone looks forward to. You've written books, all best sellers,
and you even wrote a special Marvel comic book. You've
been called the Howard Stern of hip hop or Today's
Johnny Carson er Jay Leno. Hard to imagine much more influence.
Let's tag into how you out here from Monks Corner,
South Carolina. Can you paint the picture of where you
(05:04):
grew up in those times? I grew up in a
small country town. When I was growing up, it was
a dirt road cornfield surrounding everybody's house on that dirt road.
My father used to always say, if you're driving down
the highway and you see something dead on the side
of the road, you get out and put your hand
on it. If it's cold, you leave it there, it's warm,
you bring it home for dinner. That's literally what kind
(05:24):
of town it was. There was nothing. They're growing up,
you know. I remember when Signic first came, no the
town like, oh, it's gonna got a Signic now, Like
so we felt like a big city. You know. When
we got a super Walmart d would open twenty four hours,
we felt like we was in the big city. That's
actually what we used to do for fun. There's nothing
to do on the weekend, and it's after midnight, and
you just tired of sitting around house, you literally just
(05:44):
go walk around Walmart. So, from what I've read, your
mom was a teacher, your dad was bigger than life
personality with a huge presence in your town. What did
you get from each of those? I learned a lot
of what to do in my life from my mom.
I learned a lot of what not to do in
my life from my that. You know, my dad was
a good father. I realized he was just doing the
best he could because he was dealing with his own
(06:04):
issues with mental health and you know, substance abuse. I
remember going to visit my father in rehab so I
just know that he was doing the best that he could.
I really don't hold a lot of things against him,
because I do think he's a great man, you know.
I just think that it's a lot of things he
didn't teach me, and he would discipline me for not
knowing things that he should have taught me to begin with.
I remember one time following him as he was driving
(06:27):
and he ran the stop shine. So I ran the
stop sign. He pulled over, so I pulled over. He
got out the car, told me rod went down, He
slapped in the face, told me to wake up. You
don't see yourself right that stop sign. I'm like, I'm
following you. You ran the stop sign. So it was
that that kind of relationship. But you know, my mother,
being an English teacher, she kept the book in my face.
She always encouraged me to read, and she would always
(06:48):
tell me to read things that don't pertain to me.
So I would be the guy that would be reading
like Judy Bloom and Beverly Clearly, and you know, I'd
be reading about Bigfoot and uf Folds And it was
just that one little piece of read things that don't
pertain to you that helped me transcend a lot of
my circumstances and made me realize that the dirt road
I lived on I was much bigger than that. You
(07:09):
had a lot of problems in school, you graduated from
night school. You had some run ins with the law.
You tried a number of jobs, first working at a
clothing store, telemarketing agency, flower garden, your sister hired you
had I guess fired you at Taco Bell for two
weeks for not taking it seriously. Then you discovered radio.
Before we get to that, though, why the bad times.
I'm sure you had some explanations then, But looking back now,
(07:32):
what do you think it was about? What lessons did
you take from that? It was really just about wanting
to fit in. When you're not getting what you need
at home, you will get it from the street. And
it's not like the love was real in the street.
You know. It just made me feel good to be accepted.
If my father wasn't dealing with the things he was
dealing with, and he probably would have embraced me a
(07:52):
little bit more and gave me that confidence I needed,
and you know, that courage I needed and just empowered me.
I probably would not have gone to the screetch the
way that I did. What did you take away in
terms of your life now from that experience? Nothing? There
was nothing beneficial about being in that situation. You have
a bunch of skills that you really don't need. I
(08:14):
don't need to know how to sell drugs like I don't.
I don't need to know how to carry a firearms.
I was carrying it illegally back then. Anyway, Like, none
of what I went through then serves me in my
adult life other than to have those experiences. So when
I'm talking to young men that grew up in these areas,
I can relate to them in a different way, and
they can look at me and they can say, oh, well,
(08:35):
you know, he went through a lot of the same
things that I went through. When I started to see
a lot of my friends going to jail, and like
guys around me actually getting prisons in this is and
people around me actually getting killed, and cousins that I
used to look up to they really were the cousins
that were doing everything that I was doing previously, and
they ended up broke under the tree, scrung out on
(08:55):
drugs or alcohol or whatever it was. That was a
wake up call for me at a very young age
to say, I don't want to end up like that.
So more important than why did radio click with you?
I was really just looking for something positive to do.
I started working a lot of odd jobs. I worked
at the clothing store called Demo and the Mall. I
worked at Taco Bell. I worked at this factory called
Industrial Acoustics. I worked at a telemarketing place where I
(09:17):
used to be the guy that would call your house
and try to sell you twelve CDs for a penny.
Did you ever do that? Yeah? I was one of
the best because I knew music. That was a gift
that I had. I knew music, so I knew what
was good. My mother would tell me three things that
don't pertain to me. I would always listen to things
that don't pertain to me. So I knew everything from
Johnny Cash to Fleetwood mag to the New jay Z
(09:38):
Like I knew all of it. And so I would
just know how to sell these things to these people.
And I used to want to rap. And I was
in this recording studio and I met a guy. His
name was Willie will He was a radio personality at
a local station at Chalton called three Jamps, and I
just asked him, I said, you, how did you getting
the radio And he was like, I went down there
and I got an internship. And I'm like, it's that easy,
Like I don't have to be in school or anything,
(09:58):
and he was like, nah, and mind even n Charleston,
South Carolina, so things are a lot different now. So
that's what I did. I went down there the next
day and I filled out the internship application and they
hired me as an intern in the promotions department. And
that's how I got my foot in the door. But
I guess this is one of the ways that you
could say the screets help me because being at the
radio station at the time, some of these guys wanted weat.
(10:19):
I knew to get wheat, so I would have to
weed for them, and they would always want me around,
like they would always request me, yo, I want Charlemagne
to drive me to this remote or yo, Charlemagne when
you had come to the studio. So I would just
be in the studio being a fly on the wall,
just sitting there watching everybody do their job. And then
sometimes they would call me in and asked me my
opinion on things, and I would just talk and the
(10:40):
music director one day, his name was wrong White. Ron
White was like, yo, you ever thought about being on
the radio, And I was like no, but I am
now like yeah, I'll show I'll try it. And so
they made me voice track one Sunday morning from eleven
am to two pm. And I did that for a
few weeks, and then they immediately cut that out because
there was Sunday morning in Charleston, South Carolina, and I
was a bit too much for that Bible belt. So
(11:02):
they started putting me on Saturdays seven pm to midnight,
and I voiced tracked from seven to ten, and from
ten to twelve I would go live. And I think
the best thing that ever happened to me was I
did not have any radio skills. Nobody taught me the
traditional way to do radio. So I would just be talking.
I go back at list now, it's not the terrible.
I was yelling and I was screaming, and I'm answering
(11:24):
the phones and we just was kicking it like how
we would kick it, you know, in the hood. And
it became very popular in a very short amount of time.
One day in there doing overnights, I said to myself,
I love this. I've never felt passionate about anything before that.
I just knew this is what I want to do
(11:44):
for the rest of my life. And then, you know,
just like anything else in my life, once I fell
in love with it, I just started studying it. The
Howard Sterns and the Frankie Crockers and the Pete Greens,
and then you know, you started getting into the new
guys like the Tom join Us in the dug Banks.
They were syndicated and all market, so I was already
listening to them, and then you started learned about the
Wendy Williams is and Andie Martinez and all these different people.
(12:05):
And I remember saying to myself, if I really commit
myself to this, I want to be like them. I
want to just be in a local market saying time
and temperature and introducing the next song, like I want
to be one of those people. What did you take
away from them you were listening to them, what did
they sound like to you? Everybody I just named was authentic.
They were really on the radio being themselves. They sounded
(12:29):
like regular people having a conversation with you on the radio,
talking about regular everyday topics. That everybody was talking about
like when my mom would ride to work in the
morning and she has been any three jams on and
it was, oh, if the time join them arning show,
like they was in there just talking about regular things
that were going on in the world. And I just
thought that was the coolest thing to have that kind
(12:50):
of voice. When my mom woke up in the morning,
before there was iPods and satellite radio and podcast and
everything else, there was Tom joining in the morning and
now when she was listening to And I always wanted
to have that impact on people. I wanted to be
that companion to people. So when you envisioned yourself being
one of those people, have you turned into that or
turned into something else? I've had identity crisis, is right, because,
(13:15):
like I said, I didn't know how to do radio,
so I was literally just in there being who I
thought was myself. But at the time, you gotta think
it's I'm like twenty years old. You know, I didn't
know myself at twenty You do what I mean, So
you grow and then at a certain point when you
are having some success, you think, I gotta give people
more of this, So then you become a characterature of yourself.
(13:38):
I think at this point in my life. Right now,
I am comfortable with just being me, and I think
I've been giving people just me for the past three years.
I'm not giving people what I think they wanted here
and not giving people what I think they like about me,
just genuinely being me. My name is Leonard McKelvey. I'm
(13:59):
a father, I'm a husband. I started going to therapy
a few years ago. I took listeners on that journey
with me. I've talked about every portion of my life
along the way, the good, the bad, and ugly. You know,
some of it comes back to bite you. But I
wouldn't trade it for the world because I think they
really know me. So let's go to that journey. You
go to Charleston, South Carolina, to Columbia, South Carolina. Then
(14:20):
you made this big job to work with Wendy Williams
in New York. How did you make that big job?
People don't go from that size market to New York City.
The company I worked for in Columbius, Ath Carolina, was
called in the City Broadcasting in the City owned w
b LS here in New York. So they started syndicating
Wendy Williams on Hot one or three nine in Columbia,
South Carolina, and I used to do nights with a
(14:40):
guy named Big Sexy. His name is Bill Black. He
worked for I Heard Now. Then I did nights with
a young lady named Venom. Whendydom used to come into
the market. Windy and her husband Kevin, and I remember
the first time Wendy was broadcasting from the studio. I'm
thinking to myself, Oh, this is my but tell me
the I'm gonna introduce myself to her because it's somebody
I've been studying for years. I used to do mixtapes
at the time, and I used to do parody songs,
and I wanted her to hear this one parody song
(15:01):
because I thought she would really enjoy it. So going
there and Wendy said to me verbe him, Yo, I'm
trying to do my f and show get the f
out of here and take that mixtape to my husband.
I didn't get discouraged. I said, well, where's your husband.
She said, he's right over there, across the hall. So
I went across the hall, scrug up a conversation with him,
gave him the mixtapes. He enjoyed them. So from that
point on, we had a relationship. That's when the Internet
(15:24):
started happening. So I started having viral moments, and so
when these things would make its way up to New York,
she knew me. She started shouting out some of the
things I was doing. I did this interview with a
young video vixen at the time. Her name was Buffy
the Body, and I just remember asking her like, Yo,
you don't want to be Buffy the Brain. What happens
when you get older and you know, everything starts to sag, like,
you know, you don't want to be able to rely
on your intellect. And she got really upset about that.
(15:46):
But Wendy loved it, and Wendy was talking about it
on the air. They invited me to come to a
party in New York, and when I went to the party,
Wendy asked me to come on her show. She literally like, Yo,
come on my show tomorrow, and I was like word.
So next day I was calling her husband all day
and her husband was like, yes, go up there now.
I went up there for like twenty five minutes, and
that night at dinner, he was telling me like, Yo,
(16:09):
you know, she's looking for a co host. She's tried
out a bunch of comedians. You don't want a comedian.
She really wants somebody from radio. She really just liked
what you do. And he was like, look, we can't
pay you, but we can give you a place to stay.
I'm only making six dollars an hour in Columbia, South Carolina.
I'm like, cool, Why not? I was out and I
moved to New York, actually New Jersey, but I used
to commute to New York everyday just to do Wendy
(16:30):
Show from two to six and would fly back to
South Carolina to do my show on Saturday. Kept your Saturday.
I kept my Saturday show for about six seven months,
and then my operations manage at the time said I
couldn't have my cake and eat it too. So I
used to do it also just to make some money
because I didn't have any money. I had like if that,
(16:51):
so I packed a little cotton suitcase. The way I
would make money is by flying back in South Carolina
and hosting parties on Saturday night, do my radio show,
go host the Paul, and then flybacks Sunday afternoon. So
you left Wendy, you went to Philly, then you went
back to Monk's corner. And then in two thousand and
ten it really came together for you because with Wendy,
as you say, you weren't making the money. You joined
(17:12):
dj MB and angela Ye, and you created the now
legendary Breakfast Club on Power one oh five point one
in New York and on like a hundred radio stations
around the country as well as nationally on the Heart
radio app. This is a story about perseverance, and you
took a hell of a lot of chances. What lesson
do you take from that journey? When I got hired
(17:33):
at the Breakfast Club, I had just got fired for
the fourth time from a hundred points three to beat
in Philadelphia. The last thing of you I did was
with a rapid named Beanie Siegel. He used to be
signed to jay Z. He called into the show because
he was from Philly and he had a lot of
not so nice things to say about jay Z. That
was on a Friday, that went superviral that weekend, so
much though that jay Z even had to comment on it.
(17:54):
And then that Monday, I got fired, so the blogs
said jay Z got Charlottagne five. Publicity of Bathboblicity like
that made everything even bigger. Yeah, it looked good online,
but in real life, I'm back home living with my
mom at thirty one years old and my one year
old daughter, and I honestly thought in my mind that
South Carolina was it for me. Like I was like,
you know what, I'm back living at home. There was
(18:16):
a new station opening up in the market called Box,
and I remember being on air with my man d
Nice and it just felt so small, like it just
did not feel right. It wasn't an ego thing, it
wasn't a pride thing. In my mind already accepted I'm
gonna be living back in Charlton. We're gonna raise our
family here. But it just did not feel right, Like God,
(18:36):
the universe just kept telling me no. One day the
summer of two thousand and ten, I drove up to
New York. I happened to just randomly text g Spen
He's been used to work for my Heart, and I said, Yo,
I'm in the city, and he was like, Yo, come
to the station right now. Can you make it here?
I said yes, And when I get there, he goes, Yo,
my program director, that Catolic Jack. At the time, He's like,
(18:57):
he's been watching your online videos. All day because I
ed to do these web videos with my man Little Duval,
and so we just sat down and we had a
conversation and kind of like Jack said to me, he
was like, Yo, how long could you wait for a
job like this? I said, what do you mean a
job like this? I just supposed I wanted to hire
you at Power. How long could you wait for a
job like this? I said, for this job, I'll wait
(19:18):
until his time to go, Like when you tell me
to be here, I'll be here. A few months later,
he was offering me a position on the morning show.
Pretty amazing, It is pretty have any idea the ride
that was ahead of you. When I used to work
for Wendy, I remember saying to myself, if I do
what I'm supposed to do it here on Wendy Show,
one day I can host that morning show. When we
(19:38):
first started doing the Breakfast Club, one thing you realized
about I Heart. I Heart has some really good people,
you know, like Dennis Clark. After two days we did
two shows, like literally two demo shows on like a
Saturday and Sunday. Then this Clark goes, this could be
really something special, Like this could be something that could
rival Elvis Durant, it could be Elvis duran morning show level.
(19:58):
He said that after two and for people who don't
love Dennis Clark, he is the extraordinary talent coach we
have here at our heart, unbelievably works with our talent.
He's got a gift. Guys like Dennis have a gift.
And the reason I say that is because we live
in this world where people think if you're not part
of a certain culture, you can't speak to that coachure.
Then this Clark is a white man from I don't
know where. He don't look like he's in the hip hop,
(20:20):
but he just gets how to do good radio and
he understands people. He was like, Okay, Envy, your this Angela,
you're this Charlemagne, You're this. After two days and he
has not been wrong since. I would listen to that
man for the rest of my life. Let's give some
advice here. What advice would you give to people who
find themselves stuck in that struggle to the top. When
(20:43):
you feel stuck, make sure that you're doing everything in
your power to not be stuck. A lot of times
we like to blame everything that's around us, you know,
we like to blame other people. We like to blame
certain circumstances, But are you truly doing everything that you
need to be doing and not be in that position?
Because God will not bless mediocrity, God will bless excellence.
(21:05):
Excellence can be. If I clean these windows, I'm gonna
make sure he's are the best looking windows in the
whole building. You know, if if I'm watching the car,
I'm gonna make sure that car is spotless. Like are
you always doing your best? Putting your best foot forward?
And if you can honestly say yeah, then truthfully it's
just a matter of time. Just hold on a second,
because we've got so much more to talk about. We'll
(21:26):
be back after a quick break. Welcome back the Math
and Magic. We're here with Charlemagne the Gods. Let's jump
to you today. I'm wanna get your views on some
things hip hop culture. When did you know it had
taken over the main stream? Actually a long time ago,
and I'm talking about in like the late nineties, when
(21:47):
you saw all of these white kids at Woutang concerts
and you saw all these white kids loving Death Row records,
Dr Drean, Snoop Dogg. When you started seeing hip hop
all over MTV, and you started to see other artists
from other genres of music start to want to do
hip hop. It's like rap became the language, and so
(22:08):
that's when I knew that it had taken over. I
think it took a while for mainstream America to accept that,
you know, what hip hop is pop culture. This is
a podcast for marketers and entrepreneurs. What do they get
wrong about hip hop? What is it and what is
it not? I think they getting wrong that they think
hip hop is just still some novelty. They think it's niche,
(22:29):
they think it's just the black thing. It's clearly embraced globally,
but I think a lot of times people look at
hip hop and they still think it's dangerous. They still
think it's violent. They have rightful reasons to think that
in some cases. But I mean, the hip hop that's
been out for the past fifteen years does not reflect
what was going on in the nineties, is not reflect
what's going on in their early two thousands. Like now
you've got Kendrick Lamar, dreg J Cole Wile, a big
(22:52):
Sean Rahapsody, chance to rap it. These are some of
the nicest people you can ever mean you're life like,
And they're teaching the whole new generation the minute it's
okay to beva rble. You know, it's okay to not
be from the street. It's okay to not glorify the
drug culture that I celebrate the game culture. You've reached
the point talking about your journey. The people now want
to know what you think, not necessarily interviewing other people.
(23:14):
And many would say, you're a pundit or a philosopher.
Are you reflecting the hip hop culture, or it's this
just you, it's this your life, your thoughts. Well, that's
the other misconception about hip hop. The other misconception about
hip hop is that hip hop is not all those things.
I grew up listening to Chuck D from Public Enemy,
and I grew up listening to Wu Tang Clan and
you know, Goody Mob and Outcasts. All of those people
(23:35):
were philosophers. They were encouraging me to read certain books
because they would wrap about these books in their music.
You know, they did have high levels of spirituality because
they did believe in a higher power. I started studying
a lot of different things because these rappers would mention
these things in the music, like they would always be
talking about politics. They would always be talking about religion.
(23:56):
They were the pundits that had microphones, and they were
talking about things that were going on in society. So like,
that's always been a hip hop thing. Hip Hop has
always been broad and always been able to talk about
all those different things. Like I said, my mother would
always tell me to read things that didn't pertain to you.
So I literally was just a sponge. I would be
(24:17):
into everything. After all the dudes you paid and the
struggle you endured to get here, how do you deal
with all the success? It must be heady stuff, going
from the life you were talking about Mark's Corner to
not New York but the world. Now? How do you
cope with that? I learned my lesson a long time ago. Man.
The first time I ever got fired was from High
ninety eight nine in Chalton, South Carolina. But I really
(24:39):
held myself accountable because I know that I was not
using the microphone the way that I shouldn't have used
the microphone. Back then, I didn't understand the power that
comes with that microphone, you know. Michael Mex said, the
person who controls the media, control of the minds of
the masses. I know, back then, I was not putting
the right things in people's minds and people's heads. And
so now when it comes to the success, it's not
about me. It's about who could I empower the day?
(25:02):
Who can I help to day. I like opening and
sharing my platform with people more so than anything. I
wrote two books, one called Black Privilege, another one called
ship Win. You know. Black Privilege was just, you know,
eight lessons that I learned in my life. So once again,
even though I'm talking about myself, I'm sharing my life
experiences to help somebody else. Ship Point was about a
(25:22):
journal I was keeping while I was going to therapy
that too, helped other people. You know, I was just
telling my stories. So I think that's what helps me
not to get big headed, uh, not to have an ego.
Success to me isn't about what I'm accomplishing. Success to
me is like what am I doing to help other people?
That's when you truly start to feel successful. You're one
of the few people who has to gravitage to talk to.
(25:44):
The big stars disappear when you interview them. What are
you trying to get from them? And how do you
do it? I'm just always coming from the perspective of curiosity.
I think that's what every radio personality, every media personality,
should never lose. Don't lose that curiosity when you start
to think that you're an expert and people are really
coming to you because you're the authority on all things
(26:05):
hip hop or the authority on all things politics. That's
when you get corny, when you're to know it all.
To me, it's like you really know nothing. I don't
like people like that. I like people that when I'm
watching them, I can tell they're learning and I'm learning
with them in that moment. Let's talk about something new, podcasting.
Why do you think it suddenly broke out and it's
been around for a while and then just suddenly it
(26:27):
took off. It's the same reason people love radio. I
think one problem that radio I hope we can fix
going into the new decade. We haven't done a great
job of grooming personalities. It should be more than one Charlomagne.
It should be more than one Bobby Bones. There should
be more than one Elvis Duran. You know, I don't
(26:49):
think that we've done a good job of letting people
express their personalities. You know, I think radio got a
little bit too to Vanilla. I think podcast allow you
to be a personality because you're really taking these kids
off the street the same way I was when back
was off the street. Nobody told me how to do radio.
I just started talking. And that's what these kids are
(27:09):
doing with their podcast. They just talking, and they're telling
their life experiences and they're talking about things from their
p O V. And I think some people will just
find it refreshing and they just find it entertaining, like
when we talk about being those companions on those long
car rides. Man, you know, if it's not the morning
show and you're listening to the radio in the mid days,
are in the afternoons, are at night, you don't really
(27:30):
feel like you got a companion. You feel like somebody's
talking at you. You turn on the podcasts, you feel
like it's some people which you laugh and joke and
having a conversation. Podcast is creating more friends for people
to ride with. Let's talk about social Social influencers are
all the rage with marketers. You have something none of
them have. You have a huge, engaged and regular audience
on the radio every day, plus the millions of followers
(27:53):
on social too, so we you and the Breakfast Club
put a post up socially, how does that fit with
your radio show? Before? I feel like we had these steaks,
but we were eating them with forks. But I feel
like with social media now we've got the knives because
we're cutting it up and that's how we're feeding the masses.
And like, the conversation never stops, I mean literally never stop.
(28:13):
I know, I know, I look at your posts, yes,
which is not good for your mental health, by the way,
because like nobody should be that connected all the time.
And literally it can be interviews from years ago that
people will start talking about now. It's like they're discovering
all of this new stuff all of the time. So
it's like the Breakfast Club. The conversation never stops. It's
(28:34):
always a constant conversation about some type of content that
I created. So you gotta feel good about that. But
it's literally a conversation that never stops. And if you
think you're these people's friends when you're on the radio
for four hours a day, no, you're these people's friend
twenty four hours a day, and they have questions and
they demand answers. How dare you not reply? To me,
(28:55):
you know that's how they view it. How dare you
not reply to me? If I post something on your
page and I found myself engaging with him, I actually
think it's fun. You get to see the reaction. That's
actually one of the things that's new to radio that
we didn't have back in the day. To actually see
how people react to your interviews, whether they're trending on
social media, or people learn new information, or even when
(29:16):
it's not a celebrity, as somebody from a business and
you bring them on, like we had my guy on
another Day's name is Kareem. He's in the social equity
and the YouTube and if you might have got like
seventy thousand views something like that, but he's like, yo,
we're getting tens of thousands of emails, people hitting us
up inquiring about our social equity. So to watch these
(29:37):
companies like that get those booths, or the entrepreneur who's
selling T shirts, whatever it is is, to watch these
people be able to establish themselves just from an interview
is very powerful. How do you help advertisers get returned
on the investment in your show? What do you think
the value of being in the radio is for an advertiser.
I mean, I think it's everything, especially when you're dealing
with the show that has the listenership that the breakfast
(29:58):
Club does and has the social me the engagement that
the breakfast Club does. Because our people trust us. That's
one reason I won't just put my name on anything.
You know, if I'm not actually using it, then I'm
not gonna really talk about it. Sometimes I mess up
because I'm using products and I might just shot it out.
Next thing, you know, they reaching out to me and
sending me product because they've gotten these spikes and sales
(30:21):
are like these spikes and mentions on social media, people
are starting to check them out. I just think radio,
especially now at radio, with social media and then YouTube
all works this one. I don't think we could ever
put a price on it. We've built this multi platform
company now because it's hard to tell where one ends
the other begins. You've spent a lot of time on
TV as well as radio. How do you contrast the
(30:43):
audio experience of radio with the TV experience. Audio is
more intimate. When you're sitting there having a conversation with somebody,
you can get more comfortable. I think when they come
on television. They know that this segment is only gonna
be six seven minutes. When you think about the compelling
interviews that you saw on TV back in the day,
the compelling interviews, it was the Larry King's the Open
Wind for You, the diansaur Is, the Barbara Walters. Why
(31:03):
were they interviews so compelling because they actually took time,
They actually sat down and had long form conversations with
these people. It's the intimacy of it. You know. That's
one reason I used to love or seen your Hall
back in the day. You know, Senior Hall used to
have these which seemed like long conversations with them. They
would be, you know, fifteen twenty minutes, which is long
on television, but that's all we had back then. There
(31:25):
was no podcast. What's the longest interview you've done on
the radio? Longest interview I've ever done on the radio
was an hour in forty seven minutes, and that was
with Dick Gregory. God blessed the rest in peace. I
think that was actually his last interview. And I remember
just I never had met Dick Gregory, always been a
fan of Dick Gregory, and you know, we just sat there.
I remember Angelie and envy being so restless, and Dick
(31:47):
had like all of these papers that he was showing us.
It was almost like he knew he wasn't gonna be
around much longer, so he wanted all of this information
to be out there. And it's it's literally like an
hour forty seven minute of view. And I'm so happy
that we did that. You've embraced a number of important
social causes. Somebody creating awareness, some by providing insights, some
(32:08):
outlets promotions, somebody raising money, somebody donating your own money.
All had huge impact. How do you choose your issues
and causes? I know what it feels like to not
have I grew up in a single wide trailing Monks
when the South canline. I didn't even realize how Poul
we were. And it's so funny because my mom said
the same thing. I didn't realize how poul we were,
and she talks about that when she was growing up.
(32:29):
I just feel like, when you have a lot, sometimes
it's very easy just to say here, But I mean,
I just try to do things that are of personal
interest to me. Anything that has to do with mental health,
the research of it, the treatment of it. I'm gonna
be all into that. My mother went to an HBCU,
historically Black college university, So I'm gonna always be big
in the HBCUs. Anything that can empower people economically, I'm
(32:53):
gonna give money to those type of foundations. So it's
just things that I have personal interest in. Your book,
Shook One, Can you talk a little bit about your
journey my whole life, I've had like these really bad
panic attacks, and you know, I never knew what those
panic attacks were. You know, I just honestly thought that
the environment I grew up in warranted me to have
that shortness of breakfast like I'm having a heart attack,
(33:13):
and those sweaty palms and things like that. So I
never thought anything of it until two thousand and ten,
when I was back living at home with my mom,
driving me down and feeling like I was about to die,
Like Yo, this is it. And so I went to
the hospital. The doctor was like, YO, your heart is fine.
You got an athletes heart. And he was like, yo,
you have anxiety. You know, like anxiety, And he's like
it sounds like you got a panic attack, Like a
panic attack you scresched out about anything. I'm like, hell, yeah,
(33:36):
I'm scressed about all kind of stuff. I'm living at home.
My mom just got five for the four time. And
so in my mind when he said that to me, Okay,
all I gotta do get another job, like another job,
all that to go out the window. Everything would be
cool for or five years later, end up getting the
breakfast club, had a lot of success, but still having
those panic attacks, still falling into depression for whatever reason.
(33:57):
And um, I studied successful people, and a lot of
people that I know that's successful, we're talking to me
about therapy, and it's like, Yo, maybe you should try therapy.
And so I just stopped flirting with the idea around
two thousand and seventeen and I just started going it's
done one just for my life. It's literally like organizing
a junkie closet. Like you know, you're going to closet
and you might have clothes and sneakers and everything everywhere.
(34:18):
So you just start like folding up the stuff that
you want to keep and putting it in a nice place,
and the things that you don't want you pack up,
you ship off, and now you got room to bring
in new things. That's just what therapy has done for me.
It's just like, really help me to get a handle
on my anxiety if you could. What advice would you
have for your sixteen year old self? I would tell
(34:38):
my sixteen year self don't change a thing. Really, I
believe in the space time continuum. I've watched a lot
of Back to the Future, and I know Avengers in
game changed our thoughts on time travel, but I still
feel like if you go back in time and you
change anything you went through, you may not end up
(35:00):
where you are. The only thing I would tell him
is that it's gonna be a lot harder then you
realize it's gonna be. But I promise you everything will
be all right. Just don't get discouraged and stay. Of course,
I don't think I would tell my sixteen yourself I'm
gonna be successful, though, because I feel like my sixteen
yourself will just sitting around and wait to be successful.
(35:21):
So what advice do you have for those people who
want to be the next year? That's where you fail.
You failed by trying to be the next anything. You
should truly just be yourself. And it's great to be inspired,
Like I was inspired by a lot of radio personalities,
but I would have failed tremendously trying to be any
of them. The beauty of life is that we are
(35:43):
all blessed to be our own individual, unique personality. That's
why our DNA is different than everybody else. If you
really tap into who you are and your experiences and
what you've been through, you can deliver a story that
people can relate to. But nobody else has been through.
So I would never tell you don't want to be
like me because you can't be like me because you
haven't gone through what I've gone through. You're not from
(36:04):
where I'm from, You're not me. Be yourself genuinely, be yourself,
your true authentic self, and I think that you will
be a okay and you'll be a personality that people
want to listen to. You like a lot of guests
on the show, are not a college graduate. By the way,
I'm not either. Any regrets that you didn't go to college. No,
it's difficult having that conversation with kids telling them you
(36:27):
didn't go to college because once again, you're not me.
Lebron James didn't go to college, but you're not Lebron
James like you gotta you gotta find I was lucky
enough and blessed enough to find my gifts in life early.
And you know, being that we live in a society,
were living in America where you can capitalize off your gifts,
I was able to do that. Everybody's not gonna be
(36:47):
that lucky. So are that blessed? I don't like the
world be that blessed. So I would tell you go
to school and till you figure it out. Can't hurt,
right until you figure out what it is that you
want to do. It doesn't hurt to go to college.
I'm the exception, not the rule. So on the continuum
of work life balance on one end and work life
(37:07):
integration on the other, where do you fall? Honestly, if
I'm being honest, I think I focus more on my
personal nowadays than anything else because I feel like if
I'm not the best me mentally, if I'm not the
best me emotionally, spiritually, physically, I can't be the best professionally.
So those who wrap up, we always do a shout
out to two different kinds of people from math, magic, entrepreneurs,
(37:30):
and marketers. Those that came at it from an analytical perspective,
the math folks and those that came at marketing from
the magic side, the showman. Who's the best of the
math people you can think of or do you admire.
I'm thinking about like different executives that I met on
my radio journey, George Cooke, Cadillac, Jack Dennis Clark, g Spen,
because it is a science to this thing that we
(37:51):
do call radio. And I've seen them take these one
plus ones and make them too. That's not easy as
people think it is. So magician, who's the most creative?
I like guys like jay Z. The reason I like
guys like jay Z is because he's from a place
where people like him are not supposed to come from.
He didn't have any of the training that a lot
(38:13):
of entrepreneurs and CEOs have. He just had a CEO's mind,
and like he said, that marketing plan was him and
he was an entrepreneur. He's the type of person that
would be successful and whatever field he chose to be in,
he just has something that you can't you can't buy.
And jay Z has just been a person who's dictated
culture for the past thirty years, and not just for himself,
Like look at all the people that he's put on.
(38:34):
Whether this to Rihanna's the j Cole's, the Kanye's, like
all of these people who have influenced coaching in so
many different ways stemmed from him and what he built.
And so when I look at what I want to
do as far as radio and media, I want people
to look at me in that same way, because, like
I said, it's not about me, It's about what are
you doing to make this culture that you love move forward?
(38:54):
And I genuinely love forward and I want to keep
moving this culture of radio forward. Charlemagne, you have he
trimmed mendous influence on culture and the lives of others.
Thank you for doing it with so much thought and
so much intention. Thanks for being Thank you, appreciate you.
Here are a few things I've picked up in my
conversation with Charlemagne. To God one, read and listen to
(39:17):
things that don't pertain to you. This invaluable advice from
Charlemagne's mom enabled him to see a world outside the
one he grew up in and helped him connect with
a wide audience later in his career, too. Never stopped creating.
Even after Charlemagne got fired from several radio jobs and
was living in his mom's house. It was a few
videos he made with friends that ultimately got him his
(39:39):
big break. Three come from the perspective of curiosity, not expertise.
When Charlemagne interviews someone, the best conversations happened when they
learn from each other in the moment. Thanks for listening.
I'm Bob Pittman. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so
much for listening to Math and Magic, a production of
I Heart Radio. This show is hosted by Bob Pittman.
(40:02):
Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our
wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki Etre for
pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael Azar for their recording help,
our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel,
Noel Mango and everyone who helped bring this show to
your ears. Until next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic production. I heart radio.
The best thing that ever happened to me was I
did not have any radio skills, Like nobody taught me
the traditional way to do radio. So I would just
be talking. I go back and listen. Now it's not
the terrible I was yelling and I was screaming, and
(00:22):
I'm answering the phones, and we just was kicking it
like how we would kick it, you know, in the hood.
And it became very popular in a very short amount
of time. One day in there doing overnights, I said
to myself, I love this. I've never felt passionate about
anything before that. I just knew this is what I
(00:42):
want to do for the rest of my life. I'm
Bob Pippin. Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic
Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, where we explore about
the analytics of marketing and business and the magic, the creative,
(01:03):
the stuff that gets consumers excited and builds the bonds
with brands, businesses, in our case today, personalities. On this episode,
we're going to explore how one person can have an
impact on culture and society. Welcome Charlemagne, the god best
(01:26):
known as the co host of the syndicated radio morning
show The Breakfast Club. He's also on TV, he's in podcasting,
he's on social and he's a best selling author. Charlemagne
was born Leonard Larry McKelvey in Charleston, South Carolina. His
mom was an English teacher and his dad was a
businessman with a wide range of businesses. Charlemagne appears to
(01:47):
have picked up much from both. He got into a
reasonable amount of trouble as a young man and then
decided he was gonna get it together. That led him
through a number of jobs before he discovered his true
calling radio, and it's been in a amazing rides since then. Charlemagne, welcome,
How are you BP? I'm doing well? Okay, So before
we jump into your life, your ideas and your lessons,
(02:08):
let's do you in sixty seconds. Here you go. Do
you prefer New York or l a New York Instagram
or Twitter Instagram, Beach or mountains Beach? Cowboys or Panthers
Cowboys All Day? Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan's. Oh I'm
gonna say, Maggie Johnson, Cats are Dogs, Cats Prince or
Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson, Drake or Kanye. Oh old Kanye
(02:32):
and new Kanye. You know what I'm gonna say. I'm
gonna say Kanye. Okay, it's about to get harder. Smartest person,
you know. I know a lot of smart people. I'm
smart enough to note that I'm not the smartest person
I know. Okay, we'll leave it at that. Childhood hero
Malcolm X. First job I worked at a factory called
Industrial Acoustics Company. Favorite city, Charleston, South Carolina. Secret talent.
(02:56):
I don't even think I have any talents. I don't
know what my thinking on. Favorite TV show probably Martin.
Favorite comic book character, Olvery, Favorite book, The Four Agreements
by Don Miguel Ruis. Favorite food jamaking, food like ox tails,
stuff like that, Salfish Bay Slfish for breakfast. Yes, there
you go. What did you want to be when you're
growing up alive? Okay, here we go. Let's start with
(03:20):
the obvious. How did you get the name Charlemagne the God?
Grown up in monkst going to South Carolina. I was
doing a lot of things I had no business doing.
One of them was selling drugs. When I used to
be on the block hustling, and I would always say
my name was Charles or Charlie. I was reading in
the history book one day in night school and I
saw that Charlemagne was French for Charles the Great, and
I literally just thought it sounded cool. I'm like, oh,
(03:41):
I'm gonna start calling myself Charlomagne, and so that's what
I did. I just started calling myself Charlomagne before the radio.
Oh wait, before radio. This is like, where did the
god come in? It's an offshoot of Islam called the
Five Percent Teachings of Islam, and they teach that the
black man is God and God is a Greek word
derived from the Aramic. It's gumas the ball, which means
(04:01):
whydom screenping beauty, And so I was just like, oh,
that's dope, no. And plus, every wrapper back then was
calling himself the god, whether it was Jay Z calling
himself Jehovah to God. Everybody in Wu Tang was a
god rock him allowed was the guy like all of
him us to call himselves God. So I was just
started calling myself Chalomage the God, which technically makes no
sense because Charlomagne is child is the Great, so it
would be like Charles the Great the God. Well, let's
(04:21):
work really well for it definitely looks good on the
Marquis right. You're wildly successful on the radio as the
co host of the Breakfast Club with DJ MB and
angela Ye. It's heard on stations all over the country,
has heard on the I Heart radio app nationally, It's
seen on Revolt TV. You do other podcasts, you're on TV.
You have millions of Instagram followers, Twitter followers, and of
(04:42):
course you have the Donkey of the Day feature that
everyone looks forward to. You've written books, all best sellers,
and you even wrote a special Marvel comic book. You've
been called the Howard Stern of hip hop or Today's
Johnny Carson er Jay Leno. Hard to imagine much more influence.
Let's tag into how you out here from Monks Corner,
South Carolina. Can you paint the picture of where you
(05:04):
grew up in those times? I grew up in a
small country town. When I was growing up, it was
a dirt road cornfield surrounding everybody's house on that dirt road.
My father used to always say, if you're driving down
the highway and you see something dead on the side
of the road, you get out and put your hand
on it. If it's cold, you leave it there, it's warm,
you bring it home for dinner. That's literally what kind
(05:24):
of town it was. There was nothing. They're growing up,
you know. I remember when Signic first came, no the
town like, oh, it's gonna got a Signic now, Like
so we felt like a big city. You know. When
we got a super Walmart d would open twenty four hours,
we felt like we was in the big city. That's
actually what we used to do for fun. There's nothing
to do on the weekend, and it's after midnight, and
you just tired of sitting around house, you literally just
(05:44):
go walk around Walmart. So, from what I've read, your
mom was a teacher, your dad was bigger than life
personality with a huge presence in your town. What did
you get from each of those? I learned a lot
of what to do in my life from my mom.
I learned a lot of what not to do in
my life from my that. You know, my dad was
a good father. I realized he was just doing the
best he could because he was dealing with his own
(06:04):
issues with mental health and you know, substance abuse. I
remember going to visit my father in rehab so I
just know that he was doing the best that he could.
I really don't hold a lot of things against him,
because I do think he's a great man, you know.
I just think that it's a lot of things he
didn't teach me, and he would discipline me for not
knowing things that he should have taught me to begin with.
I remember one time following him as he was driving
(06:27):
and he ran the stop shine. So I ran the
stop sign. He pulled over, so I pulled over. He
got out the car, told me rod went down, He
slapped in the face, told me to wake up. You
don't see yourself right that stop sign. I'm like, I'm
following you. You ran the stop sign. So it was
that that kind of relationship. But you know, my mother,
being an English teacher, she kept the book in my face.
She always encouraged me to read, and she would always
(06:48):
tell me to read things that don't pertain to me.
So I would be the guy that would be reading
like Judy Bloom and Beverly Clearly, and you know, I'd
be reading about Bigfoot and uf Folds And it was
just that one little piece of read things that don't
pertain to you that helped me transcend a lot of
my circumstances and made me realize that the dirt road
I lived on I was much bigger than that. You
(07:09):
had a lot of problems in school, you graduated from
night school. You had some run ins with the law.
You tried a number of jobs, first working at a
clothing store, telemarketing agency, flower garden, your sister hired you
had I guess fired you at Taco Bell for two
weeks for not taking it seriously. Then you discovered radio.
Before we get to that, though, why the bad times.
I'm sure you had some explanations then, But looking back now,
(07:32):
what do you think it was about? What lessons did
you take from that? It was really just about wanting
to fit in. When you're not getting what you need
at home, you will get it from the street. And
it's not like the love was real in the street.
You know. It just made me feel good to be accepted.
If my father wasn't dealing with the things he was
dealing with, and he probably would have embraced me a
(07:52):
little bit more and gave me that confidence I needed,
and you know, that courage I needed and just empowered me.
I probably would not have gone to the screetch the
way that I did. What did you take away in
terms of your life now from that experience? Nothing? There
was nothing beneficial about being in that situation. You have
a bunch of skills that you really don't need. I
(08:14):
don't need to know how to sell drugs like I don't.
I don't need to know how to carry a firearms.
I was carrying it illegally back then. Anyway, Like, none
of what I went through then serves me in my
adult life other than to have those experiences. So when
I'm talking to young men that grew up in these areas,
I can relate to them in a different way, and
they can look at me and they can say, oh, well,
(08:35):
you know, he went through a lot of the same
things that I went through. When I started to see
a lot of my friends going to jail, and like
guys around me actually getting prisons in this is and
people around me actually getting killed, and cousins that I
used to look up to they really were the cousins
that were doing everything that I was doing previously, and
they ended up broke under the tree, scrung out on
(08:55):
drugs or alcohol or whatever it was. That was a
wake up call for me at a very young age
to say, I don't want to end up like that.
So more important than why did radio click with you?
I was really just looking for something positive to do.
I started working a lot of odd jobs. I worked
at the clothing store called Demo and the Mall. I
worked at Taco Bell. I worked at this factory called
Industrial Acoustics. I worked at a telemarketing place where I
(09:17):
used to be the guy that would call your house
and try to sell you twelve CDs for a penny.
Did you ever do that? Yeah? I was one of
the best because I knew music. That was a gift
that I had. I knew music, so I knew what
was good. My mother would tell me three things that
don't pertain to me. I would always listen to things
that don't pertain to me. So I knew everything from
Johnny Cash to Fleetwood mag to the New jay Z
(09:38):
Like I knew all of it. And so I would
just know how to sell these things to these people.
And I used to want to rap. And I was
in this recording studio and I met a guy. His
name was Willie will He was a radio personality at
a local station at Chalton called three Jamps, and I
just asked him, I said, you, how did you getting
the radio And he was like, I went down there
and I got an internship. And I'm like, it's that easy,
Like I don't have to be in school or anything,
(09:58):
and he was like, nah, and mind even n Charleston,
South Carolina, so things are a lot different now. So
that's what I did. I went down there the next
day and I filled out the internship application and they
hired me as an intern in the promotions department. And
that's how I got my foot in the door. But
I guess this is one of the ways that you
could say the screets help me because being at the
radio station at the time, some of these guys wanted weat.
(10:19):
I knew to get wheat, so I would have to
weed for them, and they would always want me around,
like they would always request me, yo, I want Charlemagne
to drive me to this remote or yo, Charlemagne when
you had come to the studio. So I would just
be in the studio being a fly on the wall,
just sitting there watching everybody do their job. And then
sometimes they would call me in and asked me my
opinion on things, and I would just talk and the
(10:40):
music director one day, his name was wrong White. Ron
White was like, yo, you ever thought about being on
the radio, And I was like no, but I am
now like yeah, I'll show I'll try it. And so
they made me voice track one Sunday morning from eleven
am to two pm. And I did that for a
few weeks, and then they immediately cut that out because
there was Sunday morning in Charleston, South Carolina, and I
was a bit too much for that Bible belt. So
(11:02):
they started putting me on Saturdays seven pm to midnight,
and I voiced tracked from seven to ten, and from
ten to twelve I would go live. And I think
the best thing that ever happened to me was I
did not have any radio skills. Nobody taught me the
traditional way to do radio. So I would just be talking.
I go back at list now, it's not the terrible.
I was yelling and I was screaming, and I'm answering
(11:24):
the phones and we just was kicking it like how
we would kick it, you know, in the hood. And
it became very popular in a very short amount of time.
One day in there doing overnights, I said to myself,
I love this. I've never felt passionate about anything before that.
I just knew this is what I want to do
(11:44):
for the rest of my life. And then, you know,
just like anything else in my life, once I fell
in love with it, I just started studying it. The
Howard Sterns and the Frankie Crockers and the Pete Greens,
and then you know, you started getting into the new
guys like the Tom join Us in the dug Banks.
They were syndicated and all market, so I was already
listening to them, and then you started learned about the
Wendy Williams is and Andie Martinez and all these different people.
(12:05):
And I remember saying to myself, if I really commit
myself to this, I want to be like them. I
want to just be in a local market saying time
and temperature and introducing the next song, like I want
to be one of those people. What did you take
away from them you were listening to them, what did
they sound like to you? Everybody I just named was authentic.
They were really on the radio being themselves. They sounded
(12:29):
like regular people having a conversation with you on the radio,
talking about regular everyday topics. That everybody was talking about
like when my mom would ride to work in the
morning and she has been any three jams on and
it was, oh, if the time join them arning show,
like they was in there just talking about regular things
that were going on in the world. And I just
thought that was the coolest thing to have that kind
(12:50):
of voice. When my mom woke up in the morning,
before there was iPods and satellite radio and podcast and
everything else, there was Tom joining in the morning and
now when she was listening to And I always wanted
to have that impact on people. I wanted to be
that companion to people. So when you envisioned yourself being
one of those people, have you turned into that or
turned into something else? I've had identity crisis, is right, because,
(13:15):
like I said, I didn't know how to do radio,
so I was literally just in there being who I
thought was myself. But at the time, you gotta think
it's I'm like twenty years old. You know, I didn't
know myself at twenty You do what I mean, So
you grow and then at a certain point when you
are having some success, you think, I gotta give people
more of this, So then you become a characterature of yourself.
(13:38):
I think at this point in my life. Right now,
I am comfortable with just being me, and I think
I've been giving people just me for the past three years.
I'm not giving people what I think they wanted here
and not giving people what I think they like about me,
just genuinely being me. My name is Leonard McKelvey. I'm
(13:59):
a father, I'm a husband. I started going to therapy
a few years ago. I took listeners on that journey
with me. I've talked about every portion of my life
along the way, the good, the bad, and ugly. You know,
some of it comes back to bite you. But I
wouldn't trade it for the world because I think they
really know me. So let's go to that journey. You
go to Charleston, South Carolina, to Columbia, South Carolina. Then
(14:20):
you made this big job to work with Wendy Williams
in New York. How did you make that big job?
People don't go from that size market to New York City.
The company I worked for in Columbius, Ath Carolina, was
called in the City Broadcasting in the City owned w
b LS here in New York. So they started syndicating
Wendy Williams on Hot one or three nine in Columbia,
South Carolina, and I used to do nights with a
(14:40):
guy named Big Sexy. His name is Bill Black. He
worked for I Heard Now. Then I did nights with
a young lady named Venom. Whendydom used to come into
the market. Windy and her husband Kevin, and I remember
the first time Wendy was broadcasting from the studio. I'm
thinking to myself, Oh, this is my but tell me
the I'm gonna introduce myself to her because it's somebody
I've been studying for years. I used to do mixtapes
at the time, and I used to do parody songs,
and I wanted her to hear this one parody song
(15:01):
because I thought she would really enjoy it. So going
there and Wendy said to me verbe him, Yo, I'm
trying to do my f and show get the f
out of here and take that mixtape to my husband.
I didn't get discouraged. I said, well, where's your husband.
She said, he's right over there, across the hall. So
I went across the hall, scrug up a conversation with him,
gave him the mixtapes. He enjoyed them. So from that
point on, we had a relationship. That's when the Internet
(15:24):
started happening. So I started having viral moments, and so
when these things would make its way up to New York,
she knew me. She started shouting out some of the
things I was doing. I did this interview with a
young video vixen at the time. Her name was Buffy
the Body, and I just remember asking her like, Yo,
you don't want to be Buffy the Brain. What happens
when you get older and you know, everything starts to sag, like,
you know, you don't want to be able to rely
on your intellect. And she got really upset about that.
(15:46):
But Wendy loved it, and Wendy was talking about it
on the air. They invited me to come to a
party in New York, and when I went to the party,
Wendy asked me to come on her show. She literally like, Yo,
come on my show tomorrow, and I was like word.
So next day I was calling her husband all day
and her husband was like, yes, go up there now.
I went up there for like twenty five minutes, and
that night at dinner, he was telling me like, Yo,
(16:09):
you know, she's looking for a co host. She's tried
out a bunch of comedians. You don't want a comedian.
She really wants somebody from radio. She really just liked
what you do. And he was like, look, we can't
pay you, but we can give you a place to stay.
I'm only making six dollars an hour in Columbia, South Carolina.
I'm like, cool, Why not? I was out and I
moved to New York, actually New Jersey, but I used
to commute to New York everyday just to do Wendy
(16:30):
Show from two to six and would fly back to
South Carolina to do my show on Saturday. Kept your Saturday.
I kept my Saturday show for about six seven months,
and then my operations manage at the time said I
couldn't have my cake and eat it too. So I
used to do it also just to make some money
because I didn't have any money. I had like if that,
(16:51):
so I packed a little cotton suitcase. The way I
would make money is by flying back in South Carolina
and hosting parties on Saturday night, do my radio show,
go host the Paul, and then flybacks Sunday afternoon. So
you left Wendy, you went to Philly, then you went
back to Monk's corner. And then in two thousand and
ten it really came together for you because with Wendy,
as you say, you weren't making the money. You joined
(17:12):
dj MB and angela Ye, and you created the now
legendary Breakfast Club on Power one oh five point one
in New York and on like a hundred radio stations
around the country as well as nationally on the Heart
radio app. This is a story about perseverance, and you
took a hell of a lot of chances. What lesson
do you take from that journey? When I got hired
(17:33):
at the Breakfast Club, I had just got fired for
the fourth time from a hundred points three to beat
in Philadelphia. The last thing of you I did was
with a rapid named Beanie Siegel. He used to be
signed to jay Z. He called into the show because
he was from Philly and he had a lot of
not so nice things to say about jay Z. That
was on a Friday, that went superviral that weekend, so
much though that jay Z even had to comment on it.
(17:54):
And then that Monday, I got fired, so the blogs
said jay Z got Charlottagne five. Publicity of Bathboblicity like
that made everything even bigger. Yeah, it looked good online,
but in real life, I'm back home living with my
mom at thirty one years old and my one year
old daughter, and I honestly thought in my mind that
South Carolina was it for me. Like I was like,
you know what, I'm back living at home. There was
(18:16):
a new station opening up in the market called Box,
and I remember being on air with my man d
Nice and it just felt so small, like it just
did not feel right. It wasn't an ego thing, it
wasn't a pride thing. In my mind already accepted I'm
gonna be living back in Charlton. We're gonna raise our
family here. But it just did not feel right, Like God,
(18:36):
the universe just kept telling me no. One day the
summer of two thousand and ten, I drove up to
New York. I happened to just randomly text g Spen
He's been used to work for my Heart, and I said, Yo,
I'm in the city, and he was like, Yo, come
to the station right now. Can you make it here?
I said yes, And when I get there, he goes, Yo,
my program director, that Catolic Jack. At the time, He's like,
(18:57):
he's been watching your online videos. All day because I
ed to do these web videos with my man Little Duval,
and so we just sat down and we had a
conversation and kind of like Jack said to me, he
was like, Yo, how long could you wait for a
job like this? I said, what do you mean a
job like this? I just supposed I wanted to hire
you at Power. How long could you wait for a
job like this? I said, for this job, I'll wait
(19:18):
until his time to go, Like when you tell me
to be here, I'll be here. A few months later,
he was offering me a position on the morning show.
Pretty amazing, It is pretty have any idea the ride
that was ahead of you. When I used to work
for Wendy, I remember saying to myself, if I do
what I'm supposed to do it here on Wendy Show,
one day I can host that morning show. When we
(19:38):
first started doing the Breakfast Club, one thing you realized
about I Heart. I Heart has some really good people,
you know, like Dennis Clark. After two days we did
two shows, like literally two demo shows on like a
Saturday and Sunday. Then this Clark goes, this could be
really something special, Like this could be something that could
rival Elvis Durant, it could be Elvis duran morning show level.
(19:58):
He said that after two and for people who don't
love Dennis Clark, he is the extraordinary talent coach we
have here at our heart, unbelievably works with our talent.
He's got a gift. Guys like Dennis have a gift.
And the reason I say that is because we live
in this world where people think if you're not part
of a certain culture, you can't speak to that coachure.
Then this Clark is a white man from I don't
know where. He don't look like he's in the hip hop,
(20:20):
but he just gets how to do good radio and
he understands people. He was like, Okay, Envy, your this Angela,
you're this Charlemagne, You're this. After two days and he
has not been wrong since. I would listen to that
man for the rest of my life. Let's give some
advice here. What advice would you give to people who
find themselves stuck in that struggle to the top. When
(20:43):
you feel stuck, make sure that you're doing everything in
your power to not be stuck. A lot of times
we like to blame everything that's around us, you know,
we like to blame other people. We like to blame
certain circumstances, But are you truly doing everything that you
need to be doing and not be in that position?
Because God will not bless mediocrity, God will bless excellence.
(21:05):
Excellence can be. If I clean these windows, I'm gonna
make sure he's are the best looking windows in the
whole building. You know, if if I'm watching the car,
I'm gonna make sure that car is spotless. Like are
you always doing your best? Putting your best foot forward?
And if you can honestly say yeah, then truthfully it's
just a matter of time. Just hold on a second,
because we've got so much more to talk about. We'll
(21:26):
be back after a quick break. Welcome back the Math
and Magic. We're here with Charlemagne the Gods. Let's jump
to you today. I'm wanna get your views on some
things hip hop culture. When did you know it had
taken over the main stream? Actually a long time ago,
and I'm talking about in like the late nineties, when
(21:47):
you saw all of these white kids at Woutang concerts
and you saw all these white kids loving Death Row records,
Dr Drean, Snoop Dogg. When you started seeing hip hop
all over MTV, and you started to see other artists
from other genres of music start to want to do
hip hop. It's like rap became the language, and so
(22:08):
that's when I knew that it had taken over. I
think it took a while for mainstream America to accept that,
you know, what hip hop is pop culture. This is
a podcast for marketers and entrepreneurs. What do they get
wrong about hip hop? What is it and what is
it not? I think they getting wrong that they think
hip hop is just still some novelty. They think it's niche,
(22:29):
they think it's just the black thing. It's clearly embraced globally,
but I think a lot of times people look at
hip hop and they still think it's dangerous. They still
think it's violent. They have rightful reasons to think that
in some cases. But I mean, the hip hop that's
been out for the past fifteen years does not reflect
what was going on in the nineties, is not reflect
what's going on in their early two thousands. Like now
you've got Kendrick Lamar, dreg J Cole Wile, a big
(22:52):
Sean Rahapsody, chance to rap it. These are some of
the nicest people you can ever mean you're life like,
And they're teaching the whole new generation the minute it's
okay to beva rble. You know, it's okay to not
be from the street. It's okay to not glorify the
drug culture that I celebrate the game culture. You've reached
the point talking about your journey. The people now want
to know what you think, not necessarily interviewing other people.
(23:14):
And many would say, you're a pundit or a philosopher.
Are you reflecting the hip hop culture, or it's this
just you, it's this your life, your thoughts. Well, that's
the other misconception about hip hop. The other misconception about
hip hop is that hip hop is not all those things.
I grew up listening to Chuck D from Public Enemy,
and I grew up listening to Wu Tang Clan and
you know, Goody Mob and Outcasts. All of those people
(23:35):
were philosophers. They were encouraging me to read certain books
because they would wrap about these books in their music.
You know, they did have high levels of spirituality because
they did believe in a higher power. I started studying
a lot of different things because these rappers would mention
these things in the music, like they would always be
talking about politics. They would always be talking about religion.
(23:56):
They were the pundits that had microphones, and they were
talking about things that were going on in society. So like,
that's always been a hip hop thing. Hip Hop has
always been broad and always been able to talk about
all those different things. Like I said, my mother would
always tell me to read things that didn't pertain to you.
So I literally was just a sponge. I would be
(24:17):
into everything. After all the dudes you paid and the
struggle you endured to get here, how do you deal
with all the success? It must be heady stuff, going
from the life you were talking about Mark's Corner to
not New York but the world. Now? How do you
cope with that? I learned my lesson a long time ago. Man.
The first time I ever got fired was from High
ninety eight nine in Chalton, South Carolina. But I really
(24:39):
held myself accountable because I know that I was not
using the microphone the way that I shouldn't have used
the microphone. Back then, I didn't understand the power that
comes with that microphone, you know. Michael Mex said, the
person who controls the media, control of the minds of
the masses. I know, back then, I was not putting
the right things in people's minds and people's heads. And
so now when it comes to the success, it's not
about me. It's about who could I empower the day?
(25:02):
Who can I help to day. I like opening and
sharing my platform with people more so than anything. I
wrote two books, one called Black Privilege, another one called
ship Win. You know. Black Privilege was just, you know,
eight lessons that I learned in my life. So once again,
even though I'm talking about myself, I'm sharing my life
experiences to help somebody else. Ship Point was about a
(25:22):
journal I was keeping while I was going to therapy
that too, helped other people. You know, I was just
telling my stories. So I think that's what helps me
not to get big headed, uh, not to have an ego.
Success to me isn't about what I'm accomplishing. Success to
me is like what am I doing to help other people?
That's when you truly start to feel successful. You're one
of the few people who has to gravitage to talk to.
(25:44):
The big stars disappear when you interview them. What are
you trying to get from them? And how do you
do it? I'm just always coming from the perspective of curiosity.
I think that's what every radio personality, every media personality,
should never lose. Don't lose that curiosity when you start
to think that you're an expert and people are really
coming to you because you're the authority on all things
(26:05):
hip hop or the authority on all things politics. That's
when you get corny, when you're to know it all.
To me, it's like you really know nothing. I don't
like people like that. I like people that when I'm
watching them, I can tell they're learning and I'm learning
with them in that moment. Let's talk about something new, podcasting.
Why do you think it suddenly broke out and it's
been around for a while and then just suddenly it
(26:27):
took off. It's the same reason people love radio. I
think one problem that radio I hope we can fix
going into the new decade. We haven't done a great
job of grooming personalities. It should be more than one Charlomagne.
It should be more than one Bobby Bones. There should
be more than one Elvis Duran. You know, I don't
(26:49):
think that we've done a good job of letting people
express their personalities. You know, I think radio got a
little bit too to Vanilla. I think podcast allow you
to be a personality because you're really taking these kids
off the street the same way I was when back
was off the street. Nobody told me how to do radio.
I just started talking. And that's what these kids are
(27:09):
doing with their podcast. They just talking, and they're telling
their life experiences and they're talking about things from their
p O V. And I think some people will just
find it refreshing and they just find it entertaining, like
when we talk about being those companions on those long
car rides. Man, you know, if it's not the morning
show and you're listening to the radio in the mid days,
are in the afternoons, are at night, you don't really
(27:30):
feel like you got a companion. You feel like somebody's
talking at you. You turn on the podcasts, you feel
like it's some people which you laugh and joke and
having a conversation. Podcast is creating more friends for people
to ride with. Let's talk about social Social influencers are
all the rage with marketers. You have something none of
them have. You have a huge, engaged and regular audience
on the radio every day, plus the millions of followers
(27:53):
on social too, so we you and the Breakfast Club
put a post up socially, how does that fit with
your radio show? Before? I feel like we had these steaks,
but we were eating them with forks. But I feel
like with social media now we've got the knives because
we're cutting it up and that's how we're feeding the masses.
And like, the conversation never stops, I mean literally never stop.
(28:13):
I know, I know, I look at your posts, yes,
which is not good for your mental health, by the way,
because like nobody should be that connected all the time.
And literally it can be interviews from years ago that
people will start talking about now. It's like they're discovering
all of this new stuff all of the time. So
it's like the Breakfast Club. The conversation never stops. It's
(28:34):
always a constant conversation about some type of content that
I created. So you gotta feel good about that. But
it's literally a conversation that never stops. And if you
think you're these people's friends when you're on the radio
for four hours a day, no, you're these people's friend
twenty four hours a day, and they have questions and
they demand answers. How dare you not reply? To me,
(28:55):
you know that's how they view it. How dare you
not reply to me? If I post something on your
page and I found myself engaging with him, I actually
think it's fun. You get to see the reaction. That's
actually one of the things that's new to radio that
we didn't have back in the day. To actually see
how people react to your interviews, whether they're trending on
social media, or people learn new information, or even when
(29:16):
it's not a celebrity, as somebody from a business and
you bring them on, like we had my guy on
another Day's name is Kareem. He's in the social equity
and the YouTube and if you might have got like
seventy thousand views something like that, but he's like, yo,
we're getting tens of thousands of emails, people hitting us
up inquiring about our social equity. So to watch these
(29:37):
companies like that get those booths, or the entrepreneur who's
selling T shirts, whatever it is is, to watch these
people be able to establish themselves just from an interview
is very powerful. How do you help advertisers get returned
on the investment in your show? What do you think
the value of being in the radio is for an advertiser.
I mean, I think it's everything, especially when you're dealing
with the show that has the listenership that the breakfast
(29:58):
Club does and has the social me the engagement that
the breakfast Club does. Because our people trust us. That's
one reason I won't just put my name on anything.
You know, if I'm not actually using it, then I'm
not gonna really talk about it. Sometimes I mess up
because I'm using products and I might just shot it out.
Next thing, you know, they reaching out to me and
sending me product because they've gotten these spikes and sales
(30:21):
are like these spikes and mentions on social media, people
are starting to check them out. I just think radio,
especially now at radio, with social media and then YouTube
all works this one. I don't think we could ever
put a price on it. We've built this multi platform
company now because it's hard to tell where one ends
the other begins. You've spent a lot of time on
TV as well as radio. How do you contrast the
(30:43):
audio experience of radio with the TV experience. Audio is
more intimate. When you're sitting there having a conversation with somebody,
you can get more comfortable. I think when they come
on television. They know that this segment is only gonna
be six seven minutes. When you think about the compelling
interviews that you saw on TV back in the day,
the compelling interviews, it was the Larry King's the Open
Wind for You, the diansaur Is, the Barbara Walters. Why
(31:03):
were they interviews so compelling because they actually took time,
They actually sat down and had long form conversations with
these people. It's the intimacy of it. You know. That's
one reason I used to love or seen your Hall
back in the day. You know, Senior Hall used to
have these which seemed like long conversations with them. They
would be, you know, fifteen twenty minutes, which is long
on television, but that's all we had back then. There
(31:25):
was no podcast. What's the longest interview you've done on
the radio? Longest interview I've ever done on the radio
was an hour in forty seven minutes, and that was
with Dick Gregory. God blessed the rest in peace. I
think that was actually his last interview. And I remember
just I never had met Dick Gregory, always been a
fan of Dick Gregory, and you know, we just sat there.
I remember Angelie and envy being so restless, and Dick
(31:47):
had like all of these papers that he was showing us.
It was almost like he knew he wasn't gonna be
around much longer, so he wanted all of this information
to be out there. And it's it's literally like an
hour forty seven minute of view. And I'm so happy
that we did that. You've embraced a number of important
social causes. Somebody creating awareness, some by providing insights, some
(32:08):
outlets promotions, somebody raising money, somebody donating your own money.
All had huge impact. How do you choose your issues
and causes? I know what it feels like to not
have I grew up in a single wide trailing Monks
when the South canline. I didn't even realize how Poul
we were. And it's so funny because my mom said
the same thing. I didn't realize how poul we were,
and she talks about that when she was growing up.
(32:29):
I just feel like, when you have a lot, sometimes
it's very easy just to say here, But I mean,
I just try to do things that are of personal
interest to me. Anything that has to do with mental health,
the research of it, the treatment of it. I'm gonna
be all into that. My mother went to an HBCU,
historically Black college university, So I'm gonna always be big
in the HBCUs. Anything that can empower people economically, I'm
(32:53):
gonna give money to those type of foundations. So it's
just things that I have personal interest in. Your book,
Shook One, Can you talk a little bit about your
journey my whole life, I've had like these really bad
panic attacks, and you know, I never knew what those
panic attacks were. You know, I just honestly thought that
the environment I grew up in warranted me to have
that shortness of breakfast like I'm having a heart attack,
(33:13):
and those sweaty palms and things like that. So I
never thought anything of it until two thousand and ten,
when I was back living at home with my mom,
driving me down and feeling like I was about to die,
Like Yo, this is it. And so I went to
the hospital. The doctor was like, YO, your heart is fine.
You got an athletes heart. And he was like, yo,
you have anxiety. You know, like anxiety, And he's like
it sounds like you got a panic attack, Like a
panic attack you scresched out about anything. I'm like, hell, yeah,
(33:36):
I'm scressed about all kind of stuff. I'm living at home.
My mom just got five for the four time. And
so in my mind when he said that to me, Okay,
all I gotta do get another job, like another job,
all that to go out the window. Everything would be
cool for or five years later, end up getting the
breakfast club, had a lot of success, but still having
those panic attacks, still falling into depression for whatever reason.
(33:57):
And um, I studied successful people, and a lot of
people that I know that's successful, we're talking to me
about therapy, and it's like, Yo, maybe you should try therapy.
And so I just stopped flirting with the idea around
two thousand and seventeen and I just started going it's
done one just for my life. It's literally like organizing
a junkie closet. Like you know, you're going to closet
and you might have clothes and sneakers and everything everywhere.
(34:18):
So you just start like folding up the stuff that
you want to keep and putting it in a nice place,
and the things that you don't want you pack up,
you ship off, and now you got room to bring
in new things. That's just what therapy has done for me.
It's just like, really help me to get a handle
on my anxiety if you could. What advice would you
have for your sixteen year old self? I would tell
(34:38):
my sixteen year self don't change a thing. Really, I
believe in the space time continuum. I've watched a lot
of Back to the Future, and I know Avengers in
game changed our thoughts on time travel, but I still
feel like if you go back in time and you
change anything you went through, you may not end up
(35:00):
where you are. The only thing I would tell him
is that it's gonna be a lot harder then you
realize it's gonna be. But I promise you everything will
be all right. Just don't get discouraged and stay. Of course,
I don't think I would tell my sixteen yourself I'm
gonna be successful, though, because I feel like my sixteen
yourself will just sitting around and wait to be successful.
(35:21):
So what advice do you have for those people who
want to be the next year? That's where you fail.
You failed by trying to be the next anything. You
should truly just be yourself. And it's great to be inspired,
Like I was inspired by a lot of radio personalities,
but I would have failed tremendously trying to be any
of them. The beauty of life is that we are
(35:43):
all blessed to be our own individual, unique personality. That's
why our DNA is different than everybody else. If you
really tap into who you are and your experiences and
what you've been through, you can deliver a story that
people can relate to. But nobody else has been through.
So I would never tell you don't want to be
like me because you can't be like me because you
haven't gone through what I've gone through. You're not from
(36:04):
where I'm from, You're not me. Be yourself genuinely, be yourself,
your true authentic self, and I think that you will
be a okay and you'll be a personality that people
want to listen to. You like a lot of guests
on the show, are not a college graduate. By the way,
I'm not either. Any regrets that you didn't go to college. No,
it's difficult having that conversation with kids telling them you
(36:27):
didn't go to college because once again, you're not me.
Lebron James didn't go to college, but you're not Lebron
James like you gotta you gotta find I was lucky
enough and blessed enough to find my gifts in life early.
And you know, being that we live in a society,
were living in America where you can capitalize off your gifts,
I was able to do that. Everybody's not gonna be
(36:47):
that lucky. So are that blessed? I don't like the
world be that blessed. So I would tell you go
to school and till you figure it out. Can't hurt,
right until you figure out what it is that you
want to do. It doesn't hurt to go to college.
I'm the exception, not the rule. So on the continuum
of work life balance on one end and work life
(37:07):
integration on the other, where do you fall? Honestly, if
I'm being honest, I think I focus more on my
personal nowadays than anything else because I feel like if
I'm not the best me mentally, if I'm not the
best me emotionally, spiritually, physically, I can't be the best professionally.
So those who wrap up, we always do a shout
out to two different kinds of people from math, magic, entrepreneurs,
(37:30):
and marketers. Those that came at it from an analytical perspective,
the math folks and those that came at marketing from
the magic side, the showman. Who's the best of the
math people you can think of or do you admire.
I'm thinking about like different executives that I met on
my radio journey, George Cooke, Cadillac, Jack Dennis Clark, g Spen,
because it is a science to this thing that we
(37:51):
do call radio. And I've seen them take these one
plus ones and make them too. That's not easy as
people think it is. So magician, who's the most creative?
I like guys like jay Z. The reason I like
guys like jay Z is because he's from a place
where people like him are not supposed to come from.
He didn't have any of the training that a lot
(38:13):
of entrepreneurs and CEOs have. He just had a CEO's mind,
and like he said, that marketing plan was him and
he was an entrepreneur. He's the type of person that
would be successful and whatever field he chose to be in,
he just has something that you can't you can't buy.
And jay Z has just been a person who's dictated
culture for the past thirty years, and not just for himself,
Like look at all the people that he's put on.
(38:34):
Whether this to Rihanna's the j Cole's, the Kanye's, like
all of these people who have influenced coaching in so
many different ways stemmed from him and what he built.
And so when I look at what I want to
do as far as radio and media, I want people
to look at me in that same way, because, like
I said, it's not about me, It's about what are
you doing to make this culture that you love move forward?
(38:54):
And I genuinely love forward and I want to keep
moving this culture of radio forward. Charlemagne, you have he
trimmed mendous influence on culture and the lives of others.
Thank you for doing it with so much thought and
so much intention. Thanks for being Thank you, appreciate you.
Here are a few things I've picked up in my
conversation with Charlemagne. To God one, read and listen to
(39:17):
things that don't pertain to you. This invaluable advice from
Charlemagne's mom enabled him to see a world outside the
one he grew up in and helped him connect with
a wide audience later in his career, too. Never stopped creating.
Even after Charlemagne got fired from several radio jobs and
was living in his mom's house. It was a few
videos he made with friends that ultimately got him his
(39:39):
big break. Three come from the perspective of curiosity, not expertise.
When Charlemagne interviews someone, the best conversations happened when they
learn from each other in the moment. Thanks for listening.
I'm Bob Pittman. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so
much for listening to Math and Magic, a production of
I Heart Radio. This show is hosted by Bob Pittman.
(40:02):
Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our
wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki Etre for
pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael Azar for their recording help,
our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel,
Noel Mango and everyone who helped bring this show to
your ears. Until next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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