March 26, 2020 • 15 mins
The world has changed a lot in the last week. We’re dealing with a pandemic that’s shaken us in unimaginable ways. But how should CMO's shepherd their brands through these times? Join Bob as he calls three marketing experts—and favorite former guests—for guidance. Listen to how CVS Health’s CMO, Norm de Greve led his team to “market with humanity,” learn how Amazon's culture helped them adapt quickly to the crisis from board member and former MTV CEO, Judy McGrath. And listen in as Bob chats with iHeart’s own CMO, Gayle Troberman, as she discusses "brand empathy" and the opportunity to build trust right now.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to a special
edition of Math and Magic, and I want to thank
you for tuning in. The world has changed since the
last time we connected. We're dealing with an unprecedented event,
a pandemic that's shaken the world in ways we never
(00:23):
could have dreamed. Here at iHeart, I'm so proud of
our employees who really stepped up, working so hard to
provide steady news and companionship to a world that needs it.
But how do companies communicating these difficult times? How do
they reach out to their consumers and calm their fears,
and how do they do it in meaningful ways. To
get some answers, I decided to hop on the phone
(00:44):
and get some advice from some of my favorite guests
from past episodes, starting with Norm de Graf, chief Marketing
Officer of CDs. Help. Norm, CVS is in a much
different position than many companies, and you have a mission
and that is certainly more relevant today than ever before.
How have you changed your product and marketing to respond
(01:06):
to consumers and even society's needs right now? The very
first thing you have to do as a brand is
making sure that you're taking care of your people. They're
essential and they're nervous. We've been doing a lot of
work to make sure that they feel comfortable as they
can in their stores, creating six foot distancing, being sure
they have cleaning supplies that they're being listened to that
are addressing their needs. Then how do we take care
(01:29):
of our customers. We've done a lot of stuff for
them as well, but when it gets to a marketing front,
we've pulled most of our marketing out of the market
because the context is completely changed. The key for us
is talked to consumers about things that are useful to
them in this period. So, for example, making sure that
consumers are aware that we have free pharmacy delivery. It's
(01:52):
a real advantage for a lot of consumers who are
nervous about going to stores, and it's also good for
our colleagues to keep people out of the stores. You
value still matters because a lot of people need it
right now. They need things to be cheaper, and I
think it can even be emotional connection in a time
of big anxiety. We haven't done a lot of pay
the marketing around that, but certainly what we do with
(02:12):
our employees and earn channels and connecting with them is
important as well. What advice would you give marketers at
other companies during this coronavirus pandemic. You're seeing people really
in need, and as you point out, you're an essential service.
What about companies that are not essential services. It's a
tough moment. I think it's important for you to maintain
your connection with consumers. So I don't think companies should
(02:34):
necessarily go completely dark, and yet I don't think they
should continue the way they were seeming tone deaf to
the moment. My advice is to find a way to
be helpful and relevant in the moment, not to pretend
the moment doesn't exist, and keep running the materials you
had before you've been hitting at it, But talk specifically
(02:54):
about what you think society needs right now from all
of us in business. They need comfort and leadership, and
they need us out there saying we're going to help
and do whatever we can to get through this, We're
committed to that, and that there will be a better
time coming. Sometimes I think with all the news, it's
easy to just work yourself into a tizzy, and it's
(03:18):
good to have leaders reminds you that we're gonna work
together in this. We're gonna be together in this, and
we're gonna get through it together, but we will get
through it. And I think that's kind of the job
of all leaders and brands. I'd say play a key
role in that. Norm, thanks for taking a little time
for us, and thanks for sharing these insights. Sure happy
to do a pub I love the way Norm thinks
(03:38):
about his employees first, and also how he markets with
such humanity. It's definitely a through line I've heard in
my interview with him on this very program back in December.
Another guest I was eager to hear from was Judy McGrath,
the former CEO of MTV Networks. Today she's a board
member at Amazon, so she's clocked their incredible response in
(03:59):
the past few weeks. I wanted to know what's the
heart of the challenge for creatives right now and how
do your harness quick and meaningful campaigns. Here she is, Judy,
You've been a student of consumer sentiment for a long time,
and having your finger on that pulse helped drive MTV
two unimagined heights. At your time at the Helm can
(04:20):
you use those powers right now to tell us what
you think. The sentiment in America is today about advertising
and about the tone of any messages that come from advertising.
I think if we learned anything about the national mood
before the virus and certainly now, is that customers want
to know that beloved brands contribute in meaningful ways to
lifting up the world around them. I think it's a
(04:42):
great time and a great opportunity to really be a
hero brand. I would say connection matters more at this moment,
maybe than ever before in our lifetime. I think that
listening to music and listening to podcasts, the sound of
a human voice is perhaps more immediate and essential than
leaning back and watching the series or a movie. I
(05:03):
read that the NBA had hired a top marketer from
Spotify to help keep their players connected to the fans. So,
of course this is a business decision by a major
sports league, but it also is a human decision. It's
a choice to stay connected, and I think it's less
about celebrity and more about unity. Everything through the eyes
(05:26):
of a consumer now more than ever before. If I
were a big business leader right now, I would say
tell stories, you know, tell the truth, build trust, use
your resources and your muscle and your network to provide
connection and support. And your customers really deserve the best
from you right now, and I would feel an enormous
(05:49):
responsibility to deliver it. You're a board member at Amazon
and suddenly Amazon is being called upon to fill a
void created by retail stores closing down temporarily, people not
being able to leave their homes. I mean, the world
has turned on a dime. How does a company deal
with a surge like this when they're needed more than ever?
And what is it in that company culture that helps
(06:11):
that happen. It's always about company culture, and Amazon has
these cultural tenants that glue all the Amazonians together. You
could stop anyone who works there and they could tell
you what they are. One of their leadership principles concerned speed.
They call it a bias for action and its speed
in decision making, speed in execution. It's essential now more
(06:36):
than ever. They prioritized essentials for delivery. They added over
a hundred thousand employees. They continue to think big, they
act fast, and they are I think, first and foremost
the consumer driven company of our time. And let me
hit you one final question, Judy, we talked a little
bit about it in the first question what responsibility this
(06:59):
business have right now to help society? And what can
businesses do to help us get through this period? You know,
if you haven't read Ben Smith in The New York
Times talking about his recent interview with Mark Zuckerberg, you
really must. He talks about the fact that social platforms
have lately been viewed as almost antisocial platforms, but in
(07:21):
this moment they seem to be making good on their
original promise to disseminate real information and send you to
the right legitimate places, and debunk the crazy solutions, and
most importantly, to create communities. It's sort of like the
Amazon approach. They always say what can I do immediately?
Like today? So I would say today, I think everybody
(07:44):
should look at supporting, you know, a school meals program
or donating services, money creativity. I think they need to
pay and reassure their employees, whether they're gig workers or
contractual workers or freelance workers. I think you have to communicate,
You have to visibly appreciate everyone in the industries, like
(08:06):
the medical and service industries, who keep working and risking
themselves to you know, to keep the rest of us safe.
I would turn to you know, the creatives of my organization,
and say, let's come up with some really quick, meaningful
ideas to help both the people in our world in
the greater world. Brands know how to do that better
than anybody, and they do it so well in a
booming economy. I mean, they can really step up and
(08:29):
do it now. Judy, thank you so much. Your help
is much appreciated. Thank you, Bob. Judy was one of
my first interviews of Mathem Magic, and I love hearing
from her. If you want more of her insight, go
back and listen to her June sixth interview. We'll be
back after a quick break. To get a little insight
(08:52):
about how we're thinking about marketing in our own company,
I called up my good friend and our CMO at
I Heeart, Gail Treberman. Here's some of what she said
about how we're harnessing our bullhorn to help brands and communities. Gil,
We've never seen anything like this in our lifetimes. How
is this pandemic changing media habits and how do advertisers
(09:15):
reach their consumers with the right message, with the appropriate tone.
I believe they were going to be probably two new
metrics for our times that we look back at this
moment in crisis and ask ourselves if we've done a
good job. I think brand equity. Did we dig in
and find a way to build real value, support our customers,
(09:36):
build trust? Did we build brand equity will be a
really important measure of of how we handled these moments.
And I think the new metric that is going to
be increasingly important is brand empathy. Did we get the
tone right? Did we find a way to help in
some small way, whether that was with tools and tips
and advice consumers needed, whether that was with new programs
(09:58):
and benefits to consumer, or whether that was with simple
distractions and the right tone for entertainment and even humor
in this moment when people need an escape and when
it comes to a trust. As a media company, we're
definitely seeing consumers right now are gravitating to the media
and the voices that they trust most. Where you're going
(10:19):
to turn for information, You're going to turn to media
properties and entities where you have a trusted relationship, you've
been engaged with them over time. And I think this
is a chance for all of us in the media
business um and the marketing and brand business to step
up and prove that we deserve our consumers trust and
we can serve them in new ways in this moment
(10:40):
in time. As you look at some of the marketers
who responded and have talked about their products or the company,
what are some of the best responses you've heard so far?
I think CVS was the first one out there with
free delivery for something obviously critical right now, prescriptions and
pharmacy supplies. So I applaud them for that effort, and
(11:01):
I think others have have followed suit. Many of our
teleco partners and financial partners are waiving fees and penalties,
and I think that's just really good business, smart decisions
to do the right thing for customers right now. They'll
go a long way to building trust and loyalty with
your consumers. Other brands like Chipotle have taken a little
(11:23):
different tact and added some fun concerts from home. The
World Health Organization and Global Citizen have done a great
program with the Alone Together concerts. You know. I think
those have had a great reaction with consumers. Everyone needs
a little distraction and a little entertainment right now too,
and brands can play a role there. There's a lot
of talk about an economic downturn as a result of
(11:45):
the pandemic. How can marketers help mitigate some of that damage.
I think we need to spend, but we need to
spend smart. As marketers, we've been playing the short game
for way too long. We've been looking at how many
tweets or clicks or posts or shares or even sales
we get today, and in many ways, I think as
marketers we've almost abandoned the art of long term brand
(12:07):
building and looking at long term customer value equations. Now
as a moment with less clutter, when I think brands
who act thoughtfully will have an opportunity to really build
that kind of long lasting brand equity and trust with
their consumers. And that trust is going to cost exponentially
less right now because there is more attention to be had,
(12:30):
and the cost of media is it's more attainable. There's
less clutter. So it's a really interesting moment to think
about communicating. But think about the long game. Not which
trend can you ride today, but how can you actually
start adding value and building brand equity and trust and
long lasting relationships with consumers. I think that's a new
(12:51):
question for this moment So let's go to what we
as marketers can do, we as media people can do
for society out our businesses aside. I think now is
the time for marketers to act and not sit on
the sidelines. Obviously act intelligently, but I do think the
brands that get out there and invest, get out there
(13:13):
and keep your agencies engaged, keep your teams engaged, whether
you're planning for long term or you're reacting in the
moment and finding ways to stay in front of your
consumers and add some value. Now is a great time
to act. Keep people busy, keep people working, keep people employed,
and really do the right thing for your customers and
(13:34):
try to add some value for them every day is
best we can in these unprecedented times. What I don't
think we need to do is jump on the bandwagon
and have our snack foods and our beverages and our
credit cards tell us to wash our hands. So I
think a lot of who wins and who has missteps
in this moment will be about being thoughtful, really knowing
(13:56):
your brand. If you know your brand, then you know
what conversations you should be having in this moment. They
may be very different than what you typically do. But
if you know your brand, you know your voice, you
know the kinds of conversations you're allowed to have, let's
go have them, and let's stay engaged, and let's keep
the economy flowing, and let's keep business flowing, and let's
(14:17):
build some real value for our businesses in this moment
where we might have some bandwidth and some attention we
don't normally have. Gail, thank you very much. You can
find Gail's own story, including how she helped pioneer branded
content at Microsoft, on the July eleventh episode of Math
and Magic from last year. I hope some of that
(14:37):
insight helped you. I know times are difficult, but there's
a real opportunity for marketers right now, not just to
create a deeper connection with your customers, but to show
them what an important service you provide to the community
in these difficult times. Just know your work matters. I'm
Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. Yeah, that's it for today's episode.
(15:08):
Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a
production of I Heart Radio. The show is hosted by
Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and
wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki
Etre for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for
their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course
Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who helped
(15:31):
bring this show to your ears. Until next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to a special
edition of Math and Magic, and I want to thank
you for tuning in. The world has changed since the
last time we connected. We're dealing with an unprecedented event,
a pandemic that's shaken the world in ways we never
(00:23):
could have dreamed. Here at iHeart, I'm so proud of
our employees who really stepped up, working so hard to
provide steady news and companionship to a world that needs it.
But how do companies communicating these difficult times? How do
they reach out to their consumers and calm their fears,
and how do they do it in meaningful ways. To
get some answers, I decided to hop on the phone
(00:44):
and get some advice from some of my favorite guests
from past episodes, starting with Norm de Graf, chief Marketing
Officer of CDs. Help. Norm, CVS is in a much
different position than many companies, and you have a mission
and that is certainly more relevant today than ever before.
How have you changed your product and marketing to respond
(01:06):
to consumers and even society's needs right now? The very
first thing you have to do as a brand is
making sure that you're taking care of your people. They're
essential and they're nervous. We've been doing a lot of
work to make sure that they feel comfortable as they
can in their stores, creating six foot distancing, being sure
they have cleaning supplies that they're being listened to that
are addressing their needs. Then how do we take care
(01:29):
of our customers. We've done a lot of stuff for
them as well, but when it gets to a marketing front,
we've pulled most of our marketing out of the market
because the context is completely changed. The key for us
is talked to consumers about things that are useful to
them in this period. So, for example, making sure that
consumers are aware that we have free pharmacy delivery. It's
(01:52):
a real advantage for a lot of consumers who are
nervous about going to stores, and it's also good for
our colleagues to keep people out of the stores. You
value still matters because a lot of people need it
right now. They need things to be cheaper, and I
think it can even be emotional connection in a time
of big anxiety. We haven't done a lot of pay
the marketing around that, but certainly what we do with
(02:12):
our employees and earn channels and connecting with them is
important as well. What advice would you give marketers at
other companies during this coronavirus pandemic. You're seeing people really
in need, and as you point out, you're an essential service.
What about companies that are not essential services. It's a
tough moment. I think it's important for you to maintain
your connection with consumers. So I don't think companies should
(02:34):
necessarily go completely dark, and yet I don't think they
should continue the way they were seeming tone deaf to
the moment. My advice is to find a way to
be helpful and relevant in the moment, not to pretend
the moment doesn't exist, and keep running the materials you
had before you've been hitting at it, But talk specifically
(02:54):
about what you think society needs right now from all
of us in business. They need comfort and leadership, and
they need us out there saying we're going to help
and do whatever we can to get through this, We're
committed to that, and that there will be a better
time coming. Sometimes I think with all the news, it's
easy to just work yourself into a tizzy, and it's
(03:18):
good to have leaders reminds you that we're gonna work
together in this. We're gonna be together in this, and
we're gonna get through it together, but we will get
through it. And I think that's kind of the job
of all leaders and brands. I'd say play a key
role in that. Norm, thanks for taking a little time
for us, and thanks for sharing these insights. Sure happy
to do a pub I love the way Norm thinks
(03:38):
about his employees first, and also how he markets with
such humanity. It's definitely a through line I've heard in
my interview with him on this very program back in December.
Another guest I was eager to hear from was Judy McGrath,
the former CEO of MTV Networks. Today she's a board
member at Amazon, so she's clocked their incredible response in
(03:59):
the past few weeks. I wanted to know what's the
heart of the challenge for creatives right now and how
do your harness quick and meaningful campaigns. Here she is, Judy,
You've been a student of consumer sentiment for a long time,
and having your finger on that pulse helped drive MTV
two unimagined heights. At your time at the Helm can
(04:20):
you use those powers right now to tell us what
you think. The sentiment in America is today about advertising
and about the tone of any messages that come from advertising.
I think if we learned anything about the national mood
before the virus and certainly now, is that customers want
to know that beloved brands contribute in meaningful ways to
lifting up the world around them. I think it's a
(04:42):
great time and a great opportunity to really be a
hero brand. I would say connection matters more at this moment,
maybe than ever before in our lifetime. I think that
listening to music and listening to podcasts, the sound of
a human voice is perhaps more immediate and essential than
leaning back and watching the series or a movie. I
(05:03):
read that the NBA had hired a top marketer from
Spotify to help keep their players connected to the fans. So,
of course this is a business decision by a major
sports league, but it also is a human decision. It's
a choice to stay connected, and I think it's less
about celebrity and more about unity. Everything through the eyes
(05:26):
of a consumer now more than ever before. If I
were a big business leader right now, I would say
tell stories, you know, tell the truth, build trust, use
your resources and your muscle and your network to provide
connection and support. And your customers really deserve the best
from you right now, and I would feel an enormous
(05:49):
responsibility to deliver it. You're a board member at Amazon
and suddenly Amazon is being called upon to fill a
void created by retail stores closing down temporarily, people not
being able to leave their homes. I mean, the world
has turned on a dime. How does a company deal
with a surge like this when they're needed more than ever?
And what is it in that company culture that helps
(06:11):
that happen. It's always about company culture, and Amazon has
these cultural tenants that glue all the Amazonians together. You
could stop anyone who works there and they could tell
you what they are. One of their leadership principles concerned speed.
They call it a bias for action and its speed
in decision making, speed in execution. It's essential now more
(06:36):
than ever. They prioritized essentials for delivery. They added over
a hundred thousand employees. They continue to think big, they
act fast, and they are I think, first and foremost
the consumer driven company of our time. And let me
hit you one final question, Judy, we talked a little
bit about it in the first question what responsibility this
(06:59):
business have right now to help society? And what can
businesses do to help us get through this period? You know,
if you haven't read Ben Smith in The New York
Times talking about his recent interview with Mark Zuckerberg, you
really must. He talks about the fact that social platforms
have lately been viewed as almost antisocial platforms, but in
(07:21):
this moment they seem to be making good on their
original promise to disseminate real information and send you to
the right legitimate places, and debunk the crazy solutions, and
most importantly, to create communities. It's sort of like the
Amazon approach. They always say what can I do immediately?
Like today? So I would say today, I think everybody
(07:44):
should look at supporting, you know, a school meals program
or donating services, money creativity. I think they need to
pay and reassure their employees, whether they're gig workers or
contractual workers or freelance workers. I think you have to communicate,
You have to visibly appreciate everyone in the industries, like
(08:06):
the medical and service industries, who keep working and risking
themselves to you know, to keep the rest of us safe.
I would turn to you know, the creatives of my organization,
and say, let's come up with some really quick, meaningful
ideas to help both the people in our world in
the greater world. Brands know how to do that better
than anybody, and they do it so well in a
booming economy. I mean, they can really step up and
(08:29):
do it now. Judy, thank you so much. Your help
is much appreciated. Thank you, Bob. Judy was one of
my first interviews of Mathem Magic, and I love hearing
from her. If you want more of her insight, go
back and listen to her June sixth interview. We'll be
back after a quick break. To get a little insight
(08:52):
about how we're thinking about marketing in our own company,
I called up my good friend and our CMO at
I Heeart, Gail Treberman. Here's some of what she said
about how we're harnessing our bullhorn to help brands and communities. Gil,
We've never seen anything like this in our lifetimes. How
is this pandemic changing media habits and how do advertisers
(09:15):
reach their consumers with the right message, with the appropriate tone.
I believe they were going to be probably two new
metrics for our times that we look back at this
moment in crisis and ask ourselves if we've done a
good job. I think brand equity. Did we dig in
and find a way to build real value, support our customers,
(09:36):
build trust? Did we build brand equity will be a
really important measure of of how we handled these moments.
And I think the new metric that is going to
be increasingly important is brand empathy. Did we get the
tone right? Did we find a way to help in
some small way, whether that was with tools and tips
and advice consumers needed, whether that was with new programs
(09:58):
and benefits to consumer, or whether that was with simple
distractions and the right tone for entertainment and even humor
in this moment when people need an escape and when
it comes to a trust. As a media company, we're
definitely seeing consumers right now are gravitating to the media
and the voices that they trust most. Where you're going
(10:19):
to turn for information, You're going to turn to media
properties and entities where you have a trusted relationship, you've
been engaged with them over time. And I think this
is a chance for all of us in the media
business um and the marketing and brand business to step
up and prove that we deserve our consumers trust and
we can serve them in new ways in this moment
(10:40):
in time. As you look at some of the marketers
who responded and have talked about their products or the company,
what are some of the best responses you've heard so far?
I think CVS was the first one out there with
free delivery for something obviously critical right now, prescriptions and
pharmacy supplies. So I applaud them for that effort, and
(11:01):
I think others have have followed suit. Many of our
teleco partners and financial partners are waiving fees and penalties,
and I think that's just really good business, smart decisions
to do the right thing for customers right now. They'll
go a long way to building trust and loyalty with
your consumers. Other brands like Chipotle have taken a little
(11:23):
different tact and added some fun concerts from home. The
World Health Organization and Global Citizen have done a great
program with the Alone Together concerts. You know. I think
those have had a great reaction with consumers. Everyone needs
a little distraction and a little entertainment right now too,
and brands can play a role there. There's a lot
of talk about an economic downturn as a result of
(11:45):
the pandemic. How can marketers help mitigate some of that damage.
I think we need to spend, but we need to
spend smart. As marketers, we've been playing the short game
for way too long. We've been looking at how many
tweets or clicks or posts or shares or even sales
we get today, and in many ways, I think as
marketers we've almost abandoned the art of long term brand
(12:07):
building and looking at long term customer value equations. Now
as a moment with less clutter, when I think brands
who act thoughtfully will have an opportunity to really build
that kind of long lasting brand equity and trust with
their consumers. And that trust is going to cost exponentially
less right now because there is more attention to be had,
(12:30):
and the cost of media is it's more attainable. There's
less clutter. So it's a really interesting moment to think
about communicating. But think about the long game. Not which
trend can you ride today, but how can you actually
start adding value and building brand equity and trust and
long lasting relationships with consumers. I think that's a new
(12:51):
question for this moment So let's go to what we
as marketers can do, we as media people can do
for society out our businesses aside. I think now is
the time for marketers to act and not sit on
the sidelines. Obviously act intelligently, but I do think the
brands that get out there and invest, get out there
(13:13):
and keep your agencies engaged, keep your teams engaged, whether
you're planning for long term or you're reacting in the
moment and finding ways to stay in front of your
consumers and add some value. Now is a great time
to act. Keep people busy, keep people working, keep people employed,
and really do the right thing for your customers and
(13:34):
try to add some value for them every day is
best we can in these unprecedented times. What I don't
think we need to do is jump on the bandwagon
and have our snack foods and our beverages and our
credit cards tell us to wash our hands. So I
think a lot of who wins and who has missteps
in this moment will be about being thoughtful, really knowing
(13:56):
your brand. If you know your brand, then you know
what conversations you should be having in this moment. They
may be very different than what you typically do. But
if you know your brand, you know your voice, you
know the kinds of conversations you're allowed to have, let's
go have them, and let's stay engaged, and let's keep
the economy flowing, and let's keep business flowing, and let's
(14:17):
build some real value for our businesses in this moment
where we might have some bandwidth and some attention we
don't normally have. Gail, thank you very much. You can
find Gail's own story, including how she helped pioneer branded
content at Microsoft, on the July eleventh episode of Math
and Magic from last year. I hope some of that
(14:37):
insight helped you. I know times are difficult, but there's
a real opportunity for marketers right now, not just to
create a deeper connection with your customers, but to show
them what an important service you provide to the community
in these difficult times. Just know your work matters. I'm
Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. Yeah, that's it for today's episode.
(15:08):
Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a
production of I Heart Radio. The show is hosted by
Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and
wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki
Etre for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for
their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course
Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who helped
(15:31):
bring this show to your ears. Until next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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