September 24, 2020 • 41 mins
As the Chief Marketing Officer of American Express, Elizabeth Rutledge has a rare superpower... she's an introvert. And the way she wields it is impressive! Learn how she harnesses the power of small, nimble teams (it has something to do with pizza!); how she's used her introversion to foster a culture of empathy and respect, and why she still draws inspiration from her stint as a 9th grade biology teacher. Plus, Elizabeth reveals how she empowered her teams to give small businesses across the country relief while leading American Express through the pandemic.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production. I heart radio.
Anytime I was with my father at work gatherings of
any sort that we the family were invited to, um
what stood out for me more was that he managed
to know every person's name in the room and knew
(00:24):
them personally and related to them in that way. And
I think for me that was more. What was the
role model in terms of just how he carried himself,
the relationships that he built, and then his belief that
he would always talk to me about is you know, Elizabeth,
please just walk in someone else's shoes for a bit.
(00:45):
When you're meeting someone new, when you're in a situation
that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put yourself in the
other person's shoes for a second. Imagine what they're thinking,
what they're doing, what they did just before this meeting,
who they are, or what they're about, what they care about,
what they're passionate about. It's those kinds of things, Bob,
that I remember more than any of his corporate life
(01:09):
or lessons that I might have learned that way. Hi.
I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to another Recorded from
Home COVID episode of math and magic, stories from the
frontiers and marketing. Today, we have someone who spent most
(01:29):
of her career at one company and has made her
way to the top with the spring of visible successes
and her trail. She listens well, loves the consumer, and
is a great protector and builder of her brand. She's
Elizabeth Rutledge, CMO of American Express. Elizabeth grew up outside
(01:59):
New York and Row Princeton undergrad m y U for
m b A. Wanted to be a doctor, but made
her way to marketing with a short stop as a
ninth grade biology teacher. She professes to be an introvert
and uses that as a special skill, and she has
an interesting take on mentoring. She has been an ad
Week brand Genius in two thousand and nine and again
(02:21):
in two thousand and twelve, her team won American Expresses
Chairman's Award for Innovation that's the highest award for MX's employees,
and she is a big foodie. Elizabeth, Welcome, Hi, Bob.
How are you doing. I'm doing well. I'm surviving this.
Hope you are too. I am. I am long days
and nights on video conference. I know it, I know.
(02:43):
Thank goodness, We don't have video here. We have the
luxury of just having a voice. Before we dig into
the meaty stuff which I want to get into, I'd
like to do a little feature we do, which is
you in sixties seconds? Ready? Yeah? Ready? Do you prefer
sunrise or sunset? Sunrise, Lee Riser or night owl both,
Rye or New York City, New York City, Instagram or Twitter, Instagram,
(03:07):
beach or mountains, mountains, call or text? Text, coffee or tea, coffee, coffee,
coffee and more, coffee, Cats or dogs, cats, biking or running, running,
smartest person you know? My father? Favorite food, pizza, childhood hero.
I think it was my dad. First job selling shoes,
(03:31):
last book you read the cast, Favorite way to relax, pilates,
something you can't live without? Coffee, coffee, coffee. I'm picking
up a theme here, favorite city, Santa Fe, Final question,
guilty pleasure, ice cream. I thought you were going to
say coffee again, but thank goodness, we've got something else here,
(03:53):
So Elizabeth, let's just dive in now. A few years
ago we sat together for dinner and you talked about
being an introvert, and I was struck that it seemed
to be a core part of your identity and doing
our research for this episode, it sounds like this is
something that you at one point tried to overcome, but
now you use it to your advantage. Can you elaborate? Sure?
(04:16):
I remember that dinner. It was a fun night, Bob,
and you're right when I walk into a place where
I don't know anybody, and actually I believe that night
when I sat next to your dinner, I didn't know
very many other people, so it was great to see
a familiar face at the dinner table. I need to
work hard on it. I often get exhausted when I'm
in a big crowd. I like much more to have
(04:40):
one on one I prefer in those crowd situations again,
to seek out somebody and have a great, in depth conversation.
But I've learned that that's not always practical, and that
there are times when you need to stand stand up,
stand out, and also, you know, have a point of
view and ferociously defended when needed. I've learned that that's
(05:01):
important to me personally as well as as I'm leading
a large team through transformation, through both great times and
difficult times. It's been something that I've worked on very
hard over time. Bob, And so have you been able
to because I know you've talked to some about using
(05:22):
it as a skill which helps you in your job
and in your profession. How do you use that part
of your existence to help be a better manager and
a better executive in a couple of ways. And I'll
start first with having to think long and hard and
get prepared for meetings ahead of time. So that's one
(05:42):
thing that I think has come from just being an introvert.
And why do that because it then gives me the time,
the space to think ahead of time, form a point
of view and then be able to really defend it
or or stated in a meeting. The second thing that
I think because of my own introverted name sure, I'm
cognizant of other people in the room and try to
(06:03):
draw them out, particularly when they haven't said anything, they
haven't articulated what they feel. And the way to draw
them out is, you know, to have the conversation, build
the relationship, build the trust. And when you build that
trust and you form that sort of two way relationship,
it ends up creating great collaboration kind of at the
end of the day. So I think I've worked hard
on it myself as we've been talking about, but also
(06:25):
recognizing it in others, and that should be my role
now to help others along so that they can express
their opinions and we can work well together. You have
made your mark as someone who builds your marketing around
the consumer in an obsessive way. But I want to
start with an insight you got from your research that
seems to be front and center in this COVID restricted world.
(06:48):
That data showed that Americans are no longer dividing their
work and leisure time as neatly as they once did.
In fact, I think it was saying their personal and
professional lives are intertwined. It reminds me of a cartoon
I recently saw. There was a guy at a desk
as someone was at the door frame, and he was
(07:08):
asking them, I can't remember do I work at home
or do I live at work, which struck me as
a truth. We're all experiencing. Whatever you uncovered seems to
have accelerated in the last six months. Can you tell
us how that insight changed your marketing, and just as important,
how COVID has changed it even more. What a great question, bomb,
(07:30):
And as I reflect back, you know it was three
or four years ago when we refreshed and relaunched our
brand and our brand platform. You know, the powerful backing
of Americans pressed don't do business, don't live life without it,
and just in those words as a reflection, I think
of the hybrid life that um we are all leading.
(07:53):
And it's certainly through COVID that hybrid nous has been
accelerated through this recent pandemic. But three of or years
ago in particular, we were very focused around kind of
the seamless nature of life, and again, as you pointed out,
that's happening even more now, but I think it was
also about the sort of evolution of life and work,
(08:15):
and what we were finding is, you know, people were
not loyal to sort of one job. Many people have
side hustles. And at that point three years ago, Bob
I was saying, you know, Mark my words will look
back at this time and we're going to see dramatic
shifts in terms of how people work, how people live,
and what they need in terms of sort of tools
(08:35):
and services, and we as American Express need to be
right there for them. I never would imagine three years ago,
when we were talking about hybrid life that we would
be all living it to the nth degree that we are,
you know now and now more than ever, it's going
to be important to have the right tools. And this
is a great topic and I want to dig in deeper,
(08:56):
but at first I'd like to go back to your
origin story. Back in time. You grew up in the
northern New York City suburb of Rye. Can you tell
me about your parents, what they did for a living,
and how they impacted your life. My whole life revolved
around school and sports. My mom was a teacher. My
(09:16):
father grew up in the phone company what was New
York Telephone at the time. His last job there was
head of human Resources. I spent a lot of time outdoors.
I played the cross did a lot of running, and
just cared a lot about my school work in particular.
Had a love of biology and science. That's what it
(09:39):
was all about back then. So your dad was in
a big corporation, big corporate job, New York Telephone then
nine X, which is Verizon today for those who don't know.
Do you think having a dad who navigated a big
corporation day to day gave you some of the comfort
zone You clearly have had a big corporation like amx
(09:59):
obsole lutely Bob. We were very close. My father's since
passed away, he's not been with us for over fifteen
years now. Just a gentle giant and inspired me, I
think every day. And I don't know so much in
terms of if I thought back then about it from
a corporate career or a big company career. That was
(10:21):
not what was inspiring anytime I was with my father
at work gatherings of any sort that we the family
were invited to. Um What stood out for me more
was that he managed to know every person's name in
the room and knew them personally and related to them
in that way. And I think for me that was more.
(10:44):
What was the role model in terms of just how
he carried himself, the relationships that he built, and then
his belief that he would always talk to me about
is you know, Elizabeth, please just walk in someone else's
shoes for it. When you're meeting someone new, when you're
in a situation that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put
(11:07):
yourself in the other person's shoes for a second. Imagine
what they're thinking, what they're doing, what they did just
before this meeting who they are, what they're about, what
they care about, what they're passionate about. It's those kinds
of things, Bob, that I remember more than any of
his corporate life or lessons that I might have learned
that way. Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like he's gave
(11:28):
you some great, great role model and some great advice
about navigating incorporation through empathy. Absolutely that you've captured my
dad in one word. So you were clearly in the
smart kig category. You went to Princeton, graduated with the
b A in English, and I focus on premd What happened?
(11:48):
Why aren't you a doctor? Oh? Boy, some days I
still ask myself that question, Bob. Here's what happened. When
I first got out of college. I did search at
a New York hospital for a cardiothoractic surgeon. And you know,
just to set the time frame, we're talking about the
early eighties, there weren't very many females who were cardiothorastic
(12:10):
surgeons at the time, and certainly I couldn't have picked
a more intense specialty in terms of literally watching a
lot of of life and also um some death. And
so when I put it all together through that lens,
through that view, it didn't seem doable, approachable, and it
(12:31):
seemed like a long career path to get to be
that surgeon. And so when I decided that wasn't for
me because of both the environment, the stress, and I
don't think seeing exactly that the role models that I
needed to see. At the time, there weren't very many
other As I said before Females, I made the decision
(12:52):
to go teach, and I taught for two years in
the city, mainly taught biology and what a fabulous experience
and I could spend the most of the time talking
to you about all the lessons that I learned in
those two years. That was my first exposure experience in
terms of certainly having to stand up in front of
an audience and make sure you're capturing the attention and
(13:12):
the imaginations of ninth graders. I always think whenever I'm
in a presentation, now I can do what I had
to do back then in terms of ninth graders. I
got this, but it was a really exciting time for
me in terms of learning a lot about myself. The
sort of passion and love for teaching others was sort
of you know born in those moments, and I think
(13:33):
the reason then you're probably gonna ask in terms of
how did you get to marketing? What I found is
I had to make more money than I was making
in order to, you know, make ends meet at the time,
and so I took some summer jobs along the way
and advertising and marketing, and when the offers came for
full time jobs, I took the chance, not really knowing
(13:56):
a lot about marketing or advertising, but learning along the way.
And then I've never looked back from those moments. Do
you think you still as a manager wind up teaching? Absolutely.
I grew up, as I told you, with a mom
who was a teacher. Her mom was a teacher as well,
my father, as I described to you, as a teacher
in so many ways as well. And yes, that's what
(14:18):
I gravitate to. And I feel, particularly now, Bob and
the role I'm in now, that it's important for me
not only to be the teacher, but also to be
ambitious for others and to draw them out and to
help them along in their career path and their career journey.
(14:38):
And I do spend a lot of time mentoring and
helping others, both in and outside of the company as
they think about what they want to do, where they
want to be, and what I will tell you. As
much as I'm a teacher, I'm also the student, and
I truly mean that. I think you have to be curious,
You have to be asking questions all the time, and
I'm often seeking out no matter where that person is,
(15:00):
from what experience they've had, I'm just seeking out the
person that has the knowledge the expertise given our industry
is so rapidly changing and evolving, So let's make the
move to American Express. You you had a brief stop
at nine X now Verizon, and then you began an
American Express. Did you plan on a career in American Express?
(15:21):
How did you get there? I got there through a
reference from a friend, and I was very excited to
be a part of American Express iconic brand, a global brand,
one known back then for its marketing prowess and expertise,
and so I was excited to be a part of
(15:43):
this company and to have the opportunity actually to think
about both consumers and businesses, and also have the opportunity
to travel and to learn and understand about different markets.
For someone who had really grown up and spent most
of her time here in the in the US. But
(16:03):
I never expected to be here as long as I have.
But here's why I've been here this long. The challenges
have always been there for me. The opportunities, the ability
to understand different customer segments have not always been in marketing.
I've been in business development, I've been in partner negotiations,
I've been in product development. There's just a tremendous amount
(16:26):
of opportunity both from a segment and a functional perspective.
And also what has really kept me here as the people.
Just an amazing, inspiring group of people. The culture is
all about the people in the relationships. They're very special,
and I've had just tremendous mentors, supporters, leaders along the
(16:47):
way who pushed me, helped me grow. It's just been
a fabulous experience. And I truly mean that, I really
really mean that. I suspect that there's something in the
culture there. I have my stent with American Express when
they owned MTV and I had Jim Robinson is still
a friend and was mentor. Luke Gershner was there at
(17:07):
the time. A lady named Sandra Meyer who has passed away,
sadly many years ago. Every time I encountered them, they
tried to teach me something. They taught me about fighting brands,
they taught me about halo effects, they taught me the
stuff that was sort of an NBA And I don't
do you think it's in the culture or was I
just at that moment and got it and you were
at that moment and got it. Oh, it's definitely in
(17:29):
our d n A. And here's how I'm going to
relate it to sort of what's happening now. No, we've
not talked much about COVID and the pandemic, but the
focus certainly is always on, you know, our customers and
putting our customers first. But it also has been about
putting our colleagues first. And you know, we actually call
(17:51):
our employees colleagues. And I think that actually, just bob
in and of itself tells you a bit about the
learning culture, the develop men and sort of training culture.
And we're just very focused on just ensuring from the
day you step into the either the physical or the
virtual rooms of American Express, that you're part of a team.
(18:13):
We win as a team. And it's been a big
focus for us as we've kind of transitioned through COVID,
and in these early days that we all experienced back
in February and March, our focus was on protecting the
health and the safety of our colleagues. You know, getting
sixty plus colleagues to sort of work at home. You
can only imagine what it took and the energy and
(18:36):
the passion for us to be able to do that
in order for us to kind of serve our customers
and protect the brand. I've been here for a really
long time. It's just really a part of kind of
who we are, and it's expressed through the colleagues, but
just also how we treat our customers every single day.
It's all about that back and promise that I talked
about earlier. So that brought up the American Express piece
(19:00):
of MTV for a reason I wanted to get into.
I want to dig a little bit into your thinking
of philosophy as a marketer. And we've talked about short
consumer attention spans in the past. I know you've talked
a lot about it, and ironically, MX probably had some
hand in causing that. Again, not sure most people know
that MTV was half owned by American Express and MTV
(19:24):
probably was, if not caused, it was accused of causing
the short attention span. And here we are forty years
after the launch of MTV and you're building some of
your key marketing around this notion of short attention spans.
Talk to me a little bit about how you see
the short attention span and how you use it, maybe
(19:45):
any examples you've got. So look, I think where we
are in the world right now, it's often said, and
I know you've heard this said this it's a sixth
second moment, or it's a flip of a hand on
a screen in terms of the moment that you have
to speak to your customers. But I think about it
(20:06):
this way. We American espress are in this for the
long haul. It's about building relationships over time. It's about
reciprocal relationships, you know, meaning that there's a give and take,
that there's a trust built, and they're built in small
moments and they're built in big moments. And that's what
we are doing. And I hear you in terms of
the short attention spans, and you need to sort of
(20:27):
look at from a market or perspective to make sure
that you have the right message and the right channel
at the right time. But to me, it's really being
there in those small moments that happen and to make
sure that we're front and center. We had at the
beginning of Covid a twelve day sprint to stand up
a site that we call Stand for Small, and it's
(20:49):
really all about something that's near and dear to my
heart in terms of what small businesses are needing right now,
you know, given what's happening with the pandemic, and needing
our support, needing resources to help them drive customers to
their establishments, whether that's online or physically. And I point
that out when you ask an example of kind of
(21:11):
short attention span in short time, because for us to
do a twelve day sprint like that and make something happen,
it's really important because people needed it in the moment.
You can't wait to launch and have a big product
launch like we used to do in terms of a
three month timetable. And I think that that's part of
what sort of change, how to deliver something meaningful and
(21:34):
real in the moment, and that Stand for Small. I
think it's just a great example. So so many things
have had to change or accelerate trends that were already happening,
and we're just working in a very agile environment here.
That term all the time, but we're applying it in
terms of the way actually we execute our campaigns. I've
(21:55):
really been a proponent and a champion of this agile
methodology from a marketing perspective, Bob, no more than seven
eight people that can gather around a pizza to sort
of execute a campaign real time, real moments. In these
short sprints. The collaboration is stronger, the colleague or employee
satisfaction is greater, and we're seeing much stronger business results,
(22:17):
you know, as the result of the way we're operating.
And so I think life is fed up. Well, we
have seen and obviously we do business together and we've
seen it up close and personal that you are very nimble,
very agile, that you do look at what's going on
and respond surprisingly fast for a company the size of
(22:39):
American Express. Let me flip to the next piece of it.
You call the consumer American Express is north Star. What
practical ivocations does that have for your marketing? First of all,
it's all driven by customer insights. You know, customer needs
and when you put that at the enter of everything.
(23:02):
That's how you create are our great customer servicing experiences.
It's all the things that I've been talking about in
terms of the changes that we have needed to make
based on sort of our customer needs. We've really pivoted
in terms of making sure that we've given financial assistance
to customers that need it during the pandemic. Those evolved
(23:24):
card member benefits that are based off of customer needs
in the moment, again, whether it was you know, wireless
credits or food delivery offers. We talked a little bit
about the new automated B two B payment solutions. You
can hear and everything that I'm sharing and saying that
it's all about just the customer kind of at the
center of it. It's also in terms of things that
(23:45):
you may not see your understand in the moment, but
to me, it's just important in terms of how we're
talking to our customers, that we're talking to them to
them in real and simple and straightforward language, that we
create experiences that are frictional, lists that are easy, that
are driving value. You've seen and heard and been a
part of a lot of our work as it relates
to small businesses. You know they've been hit so hard
(24:08):
during this pandemic, which is incredibly focused on supporting them
and making sure that we can help our communities and
drive spend to those small businesses. And to me, it's
just always being one step ahead of the customer, having
that insight, making sure that experience is easy, seamless, and
our mission is all about the best customer experience, you know,
(24:31):
every single day, and when a company has run that way,
we're going to be creating and delivering great products and
services to serve our communities. So let me ask you
a question, not just about American expression but marketing in general.
Do you think the data scientists has now moved into
the marketing team as a core member? Absolutely? Period, end
(24:52):
of conversation. How do you use your data scientists in
a different way than you used your research depart it
meant in the old days. So I think for me
it's very clearly to drive just our marketing plans. This
has been an evolution sort of over time so one,
(25:13):
and we've been talking about this already. Certainly want to
be ahead of the trends or on trend in terms
of what our customers are telling us and making sure
we're there to create those products and services. And we've
been talking a lot about that, and I talked about
just operating in those short term sprints, and the data
scientists is so crucial to our ability to be nimble
in terms of sort of spotting those trends and being
(25:34):
able to be agile in terms of either changing your
media choices, changing your creative messaging and imagery choices, and
just working hard on getting much more personalized in terms
of what we would deliver to you, Bob, versus what
we might deliver to somebody else that would be meaningful,
and the sort of sort of the shorter sprints to learn,
(25:57):
and those data scientists are so important in terms of
making the whole ecosystem work in a faster, more effective way.
More on Math and Magic right after this quick break.
(26:18):
Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from
my conversation with Elizabeth Rutledge. So let's talk a little
bit about marketing technique. I've heard you talk in the past,
I've read some of what you've talked about. Is do
you focus a lot on word of mouth? What do
you think it is, how do you use it? Look?
(26:39):
Word of mouth has been around since the beginning of time, right, Caveman,
I think the word of mouth, there's there's a great
rock out there. But this is what's so special about
our brand, American Express. And what we found is it's
just about those personal recommendations. And you know that I
(26:59):
know that I'm this is sort of pretty straightforward. But
what we found is that is a very powerful voice
the person that you care or trust the most. And
you know, we have a program we call Member Get Member,
and I think it's just a formalized name for that
word of mouth. And we've seen that program and the
(27:21):
responses to that program grow dramatically, and so we've worked
hard to sort of digitize that program, Bob, and again
seeing sort of tremendous growth in the double digits in
terms of where we're sourcing our new customers from. And
it makes complete sense to me in terms of hearing
from someone I trust and talk about American Stress and
(27:43):
the benefits, the products, the services in a real and
tangible way. And so we're finding that formalizing that type
of program has been incredibly helpful, resourceful for us, and
it makes sense in terms of a great product but
gets you know, sort of great recos and it's working
well for us. You're talking about the word of mouth
(28:04):
and the people who like the product as sort of
an extension of American Express to help with your marketing.
How do you think about it too in terms of
building brand? And I say that because in my days
at MTV or A O L, when I've had those
products where we became quote unquote the thing I always
have attributed to word of mouth that I don't. I
think all the advertising, everything we do does nothing but
(28:25):
prime the pump for word of mouth. But word of
mouth the only thing that will make you the thing.
American Express is the thing for many people many ways.
When I got my first American Express card in the seventies,
I thought I had arrived. How do you think about
word of mouth in terms of your brand building too?
When you say that, and you asked me that question,
(28:45):
you know I would still go back, certainly to the
member gut member program, but I also think about it,
and I think you were referencing this in terms of
also talking about just the incredible experiences that we have
created it over time, and those experiences maybe you'd be
surprised in terms of the breath and depth of which
(29:07):
I'm going to describe the experiences, and it's back again
to what we're talking about in terms of those big
moments and those little moments. So it might be you know,
being able to get you front row seats to a concert,
and certainly we're probably all craving wanting to be able
to go back to some of those moments um in time,
and I know that they will come back. I'm confident
(29:28):
that they will come back, you know. And some of
those are sort of one time or incredibly special moments,
whether you know, be getting to go to Coachella something
top of mind for me. More recently, it's just you know,
getting to experience the US Tennis Open, and some of
those are incredibly special in terms of what we can
do for customers. And therefore that is a special moment
(29:51):
because usually in all of those events, you're bringing a
family member or a friend, and it's certainly something that's
going to be with you long after that moment. And
talk about brand building, but I also talk about those
moments where you may get a text from us in
terms of a charge that appeared that is not a
charge that you made on your American Express card, and
(30:13):
our ability to be able to seamlessly do that in
a channel of your choice and our ability to resolve
it quickly. Have you know that we have your back
in that moment is another brand building experience and momentum
that I like to call out because it's that sort
of relief like, Oh, they've got my back, they figured
(30:33):
it out there on top of it, they're watching out
for me. It's those kind of moments that are so
important as well. I mentioned that I got my first
American Express card in the mid seventies. At that time,
it was very exclusive, It was very rarefied, It was
tad snobby, but it was a real status symbol I
(30:53):
had arrived. How has American Express been able to expand
its base so much yet still hang onto that specialness
feeling about the card may not be snobby anymore, but
I think you still feel like you're American Express cards
that special card for you too. How have you done that?
So a couple of things that I would comment on,
(31:14):
and it's going to be building on what we've talked
about already. Our brand is special, and I think at
the core of what makes it special, from you know,
a hundred and seventy years ago to today, is it's
all about the service, It's all about the security, it's
all about the trust. And those are three core principles
(31:38):
that stand the test of time and um I think
are incredibly important to what our brand is about and
also the people that want to be, you know, with
us in this American Express community. For me, that's the
specialness and the care with which you know, we take
care of our customers. And it's been important for us
(32:01):
to just make sure that we are an inclusive brand
and that we have a breath and depth of products
and services. And I think that that's how we have
evolved and expanded over time. For me, it's been the growth,
the depth and breadth of our portfolio, but our commitment
a hundred seventy years later to that same excellent service standard,
(32:23):
that security, that trust. I'm going to leave American Express
for a moment, although I'm sure you're gonna answer some
of these questions through that prism, but just as a marketer,
someone with a very broad view of what's going on
in this COVID period, what will Black Friday and Cyber
Monday be this year? Interesting question? The way I think
(32:45):
about that is that I'm going to go back to
sort of my personal roots in terms of shopping small
and caring about the local community. And that's been core
to who I am in terms of just how important
kind of um the neighborhood and the community is. And
so when you ask me about what those moments are
(33:08):
going to look like in time, I hope that they
are really focused on helping our small businesses. I luckily
have a platform here to tell others about it. They
are suffering, many of them will not be in business anymore.
And my hope is that we can support our our
local communities. Some moort those entrepreneurs their spirit to be
(33:31):
advocates for them. You know, they're amazing spirit that got
them to the place that they are in terms of opening,
caring and nurturing their businesses. They need our help now
and that's what I hope those two days and the
moments around them can be more about supporting the local community. Well,
we've done I think some of the best work at
I heart with American Express on Small Business Saturday, going
(33:54):
back really almost to the beginning of that that effort,
and so I certainly appreciate that and agree with you.
Do you think that the COVID experience has caused the
consumer to say, I'm more concerned about my community and
those people I know in my community than I am
necessarily about the lowest price. You know, I'm going to
(34:16):
answer that in a couple of different ways. The first
thing that comes to mind is more of a corporate answer,
and I hope you'll bear with me as I talked
to you about this. You know, I told you we
did a twelve days sprint and we got over you know,
forty and now a hundred corporations together to help with
stan Ford Small Um and to help small businesses. And
I bring that up as an example when you ask
(34:37):
me that question for this reason. Only imagine in twelve
days to get forty large corporations to agree on something.
And I say that because this is I think needs
to be the way forward, the power of collaboration and partnership,
even though in some cases some of us may be
(34:59):
competitive ears. I think that that's what's gonna move us forward.
And I use that as the example to answer your question,
because I think that that's what we're going to need
to do, is embrace our communities. So COVID nineteen probably
the biggest and swiftest change in consumer behavior in my life,
(35:20):
and I'm an old guy from that. What permanent changes
do you see in fundamental consumer behavior? Do you have it?
You identified some yet some trends that I think have
been accelerated, they were already happening. Um, certainly no surprise
in terms of the growth of e commerce and online behavior,
and I definitely know and see that and know that
(35:43):
you know that will be there. And I think we
at America Spress need to ensure that we are providing
our customers with all they need to, you know, seamlessly
make purchases online. So that's one I definitely see continuing.
Another on that I think has been accelerated is just
(36:03):
the nature and ways of payments. But I think you know,
you're seeing sort of a growth in terms of contactless
payments as as well, or you're seeing just changes in
terms of automation around BE two B payments as well.
So I think you're going to see a lot in
the in the overall payment space, both given COVID in
terms of sort of helping push some of those trends,
(36:25):
and I think that they will be there long after
the virus is certainly gone or hopefully contained. And I
also know that we will return to travel. There are
so many of us that have it in our heart
and are itching um to get out there, explore and
discover again. And I know that many consumers are starting
(36:48):
to do that, and I am confident that you will
see that as well, and you'll probably see it a
new and different ways, new services, new benefits that come
from the time that we've spent indoors. But I can
guarantee you that desire to explore and discover is deep
within many of us, and I know will be there
(37:08):
at American Express with products and services to help those
who want to travel have those great experiences. So those
are a couple of the trends that I think are
either there and been accelerating or you know, you'll see
some differences going forward. So before we close up, I
want to ask you one more piece of advice, and
this one I'm gonna ask you think of one sentence.
(37:30):
What would that advice be if you could, that you
would give to your twenty one year old self. I
think it's always being curious. I think curiosity kind of
fuels creativity. And then I would always want to make
sure even back then that I was asking what kind
of impact. Do you want to have? Math and magic
(37:52):
is about that special combination of analytics and data with
sheer creativity. Math and magic, and we end each op
episode with a shout out to the best of both. Now,
you're a great student of marketing and business. You know
many people, You've seen a lot of people, who would
you say deserves to shout out for the best in
analytics the math side of marketing. That's a somewhat easy one.
(38:14):
It's a fellow colleague, Douck Buckminster. He's the president of
our Global Consumer Services Group, and he just has an
amazing ability to look at a set of numbers, see trends,
see gaps, the insights, and then make it happen. It's
that applied math. It's it's brings something to life, take action,
make a difference with all of those numbers, insights and trends. Okay,
(38:36):
so let's go to the second one. Who is the
person who has the magic? Who gets this shout out
for being the greatest magician? Easy, easy, easy one for me,
Bob here, and that would be our creative partner and
a great brand ambassador, lin Manuel Miranda. I think his
name speaks for obviously most people know him for for
(38:57):
Hamilton's and he's just a creative genius on so many levels.
His creativity, and you know, he has a strong point
of view, and I think he's just his brilliance, his focus, determination,
his love of community. There's so many things there. I mean,
it's just it's definitely Lyn by Far. I love that.
(39:18):
I love Elizabeth. Thanks for joining us today and thanks
for sharing your ideas, insights and experiences. Thanks for having me.
Bob really appreciate it. Here are a few things I've
picked up in my conversation with Elizabeth. One, the secret
(39:38):
to agile decision making use a small team. When COVID
nineteen hit, American Express was quick to adapt to customers needs,
which Elizabeth attributes to a lean team. As Elizabeth says,
if you want to put your ideas in action quickly,
your team should be small enough that you can feed
them with one pizza. To navigate corporate life through the
(40:00):
Elizabeth's father taught her very early to make business personal,
and American Express employees are always referred to as colleagues
to foster a culture of empathy and respect. Three, If
you have a unique skill set, use it to your advantage.
Elizabeth is quick to point out that she's an introvert,
a quality that might not seem an obvious fit for
(40:22):
a CMO. She says it forces her to prepare well
for meetings, plus makes her a great mentor for quieter colleagues.
For leaders should be both teachers and students. As a
former high school biology teacher, Elizabeth says it's important to
maintain a sense of curiosity and understand that there's a
lot to learn from every encounter, even when you're leading
(40:45):
the team. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it
for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math
and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show
is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger
for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no
small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael
(41:08):
Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and
of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone
who helped bring this show to your ears. Until next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production. I heart radio.
Anytime I was with my father at work gatherings of
any sort that we the family were invited to, um
what stood out for me more was that he managed
to know every person's name in the room and knew
(00:24):
them personally and related to them in that way. And
I think for me that was more. What was the
role model in terms of just how he carried himself,
the relationships that he built, and then his belief that
he would always talk to me about is you know, Elizabeth,
please just walk in someone else's shoes for a bit.
(00:45):
When you're meeting someone new, when you're in a situation
that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put yourself in the
other person's shoes for a second. Imagine what they're thinking,
what they're doing, what they did just before this meeting,
who they are, or what they're about, what they care about,
what they're passionate about. It's those kinds of things, Bob,
that I remember more than any of his corporate life
(01:09):
or lessons that I might have learned that way. Hi.
I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to another Recorded from
Home COVID episode of math and magic, stories from the
frontiers and marketing. Today, we have someone who spent most
(01:29):
of her career at one company and has made her
way to the top with the spring of visible successes
and her trail. She listens well, loves the consumer, and
is a great protector and builder of her brand. She's
Elizabeth Rutledge, CMO of American Express. Elizabeth grew up outside
(01:59):
New York and Row Princeton undergrad m y U for
m b A. Wanted to be a doctor, but made
her way to marketing with a short stop as a
ninth grade biology teacher. She professes to be an introvert
and uses that as a special skill, and she has
an interesting take on mentoring. She has been an ad
Week brand Genius in two thousand and nine and again
(02:21):
in two thousand and twelve, her team won American Expresses
Chairman's Award for Innovation that's the highest award for MX's employees,
and she is a big foodie. Elizabeth, Welcome, Hi, Bob.
How are you doing. I'm doing well. I'm surviving this.
Hope you are too. I am. I am long days
and nights on video conference. I know it, I know.
(02:43):
Thank goodness, We don't have video here. We have the
luxury of just having a voice. Before we dig into
the meaty stuff which I want to get into, I'd
like to do a little feature we do, which is
you in sixties seconds? Ready? Yeah? Ready? Do you prefer
sunrise or sunset? Sunrise, Lee Riser or night owl both,
Rye or New York City, New York City, Instagram or Twitter, Instagram,
(03:07):
beach or mountains, mountains, call or text? Text, coffee or tea, coffee, coffee,
coffee and more, coffee, Cats or dogs, cats, biking or running, running,
smartest person you know? My father? Favorite food, pizza, childhood hero.
I think it was my dad. First job selling shoes,
(03:31):
last book you read the cast, Favorite way to relax, pilates,
something you can't live without? Coffee, coffee, coffee. I'm picking
up a theme here, favorite city, Santa Fe, Final question,
guilty pleasure, ice cream. I thought you were going to
say coffee again, but thank goodness, we've got something else here,
(03:53):
So Elizabeth, let's just dive in now. A few years
ago we sat together for dinner and you talked about
being an introvert, and I was struck that it seemed
to be a core part of your identity and doing
our research for this episode, it sounds like this is
something that you at one point tried to overcome, but
now you use it to your advantage. Can you elaborate? Sure?
(04:16):
I remember that dinner. It was a fun night, Bob,
and you're right when I walk into a place where
I don't know anybody, and actually I believe that night
when I sat next to your dinner, I didn't know
very many other people, so it was great to see
a familiar face at the dinner table. I need to
work hard on it. I often get exhausted when I'm
in a big crowd. I like much more to have
(04:40):
one on one I prefer in those crowd situations again,
to seek out somebody and have a great, in depth conversation.
But I've learned that that's not always practical, and that
there are times when you need to stand stand up,
stand out, and also, you know, have a point of
view and ferociously defended when needed. I've learned that that's
(05:01):
important to me personally as well as as I'm leading
a large team through transformation, through both great times and
difficult times. It's been something that I've worked on very
hard over time. Bob, And so have you been able
to because I know you've talked to some about using
(05:22):
it as a skill which helps you in your job
and in your profession. How do you use that part
of your existence to help be a better manager and
a better executive in a couple of ways. And I'll
start first with having to think long and hard and
get prepared for meetings ahead of time. So that's one
(05:42):
thing that I think has come from just being an introvert.
And why do that because it then gives me the time,
the space to think ahead of time, form a point
of view and then be able to really defend it
or or stated in a meeting. The second thing that
I think because of my own introverted name sure, I'm
cognizant of other people in the room and try to
(06:03):
draw them out, particularly when they haven't said anything, they
haven't articulated what they feel. And the way to draw
them out is, you know, to have the conversation, build
the relationship, build the trust. And when you build that
trust and you form that sort of two way relationship,
it ends up creating great collaboration kind of at the
end of the day. So I think I've worked hard
on it myself as we've been talking about, but also
(06:25):
recognizing it in others, and that should be my role
now to help others along so that they can express
their opinions and we can work well together. You have
made your mark as someone who builds your marketing around
the consumer in an obsessive way. But I want to
start with an insight you got from your research that
seems to be front and center in this COVID restricted world.
(06:48):
That data showed that Americans are no longer dividing their
work and leisure time as neatly as they once did.
In fact, I think it was saying their personal and
professional lives are intertwined. It reminds me of a cartoon
I recently saw. There was a guy at a desk
as someone was at the door frame, and he was
(07:08):
asking them, I can't remember do I work at home
or do I live at work, which struck me as
a truth. We're all experiencing. Whatever you uncovered seems to
have accelerated in the last six months. Can you tell
us how that insight changed your marketing, and just as important,
how COVID has changed it even more. What a great question, bomb,
(07:30):
And as I reflect back, you know it was three
or four years ago when we refreshed and relaunched our
brand and our brand platform. You know, the powerful backing
of Americans pressed don't do business, don't live life without it,
and just in those words as a reflection, I think
of the hybrid life that um we are all leading.
(07:53):
And it's certainly through COVID that hybrid nous has been
accelerated through this recent pandemic. But three of or years
ago in particular, we were very focused around kind of
the seamless nature of life, and again, as you pointed out,
that's happening even more now, but I think it was
also about the sort of evolution of life and work,
(08:15):
and what we were finding is, you know, people were
not loyal to sort of one job. Many people have
side hustles. And at that point three years ago, Bob
I was saying, you know, Mark my words will look
back at this time and we're going to see dramatic
shifts in terms of how people work, how people live,
and what they need in terms of sort of tools
(08:35):
and services, and we as American Express need to be
right there for them. I never would imagine three years ago,
when we were talking about hybrid life that we would
be all living it to the nth degree that we are,
you know now and now more than ever, it's going
to be important to have the right tools. And this
is a great topic and I want to dig in deeper,
(08:56):
but at first I'd like to go back to your
origin story. Back in time. You grew up in the
northern New York City suburb of Rye. Can you tell
me about your parents, what they did for a living,
and how they impacted your life. My whole life revolved
around school and sports. My mom was a teacher. My
(09:16):
father grew up in the phone company what was New
York Telephone at the time. His last job there was
head of human Resources. I spent a lot of time outdoors.
I played the cross did a lot of running, and
just cared a lot about my school work in particular.
Had a love of biology and science. That's what it
(09:39):
was all about back then. So your dad was in
a big corporation, big corporate job, New York Telephone then
nine X, which is Verizon today for those who don't know.
Do you think having a dad who navigated a big
corporation day to day gave you some of the comfort
zone You clearly have had a big corporation like amx
(09:59):
obsole lutely Bob. We were very close. My father's since
passed away, he's not been with us for over fifteen
years now. Just a gentle giant and inspired me, I
think every day. And I don't know so much in
terms of if I thought back then about it from
a corporate career or a big company career. That was
(10:21):
not what was inspiring anytime I was with my father
at work gatherings of any sort that we the family
were invited to. Um What stood out for me more
was that he managed to know every person's name in
the room and knew them personally and related to them
in that way. And I think for me that was more.
(10:44):
What was the role model in terms of just how
he carried himself, the relationships that he built, and then
his belief that he would always talk to me about
is you know, Elizabeth, please just walk in someone else's
shoes for it. When you're meeting someone new, when you're
in a situation that you're nervous or uncomfortable, just put
(11:07):
yourself in the other person's shoes for a second. Imagine
what they're thinking, what they're doing, what they did just
before this meeting who they are, what they're about, what
they care about, what they're passionate about. It's those kinds
of things, Bob, that I remember more than any of
his corporate life or lessons that I might have learned
that way. Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like he's gave
(11:28):
you some great, great role model and some great advice
about navigating incorporation through empathy. Absolutely that you've captured my
dad in one word. So you were clearly in the
smart kig category. You went to Princeton, graduated with the
b A in English, and I focus on premd What happened?
(11:48):
Why aren't you a doctor? Oh? Boy, some days I
still ask myself that question, Bob. Here's what happened. When
I first got out of college. I did search at
a New York hospital for a cardiothoractic surgeon. And you know,
just to set the time frame, we're talking about the
early eighties, there weren't very many females who were cardiothorastic
(12:10):
surgeons at the time, and certainly I couldn't have picked
a more intense specialty in terms of literally watching a
lot of of life and also um some death. And
so when I put it all together through that lens,
through that view, it didn't seem doable, approachable, and it
(12:31):
seemed like a long career path to get to be
that surgeon. And so when I decided that wasn't for
me because of both the environment, the stress, and I
don't think seeing exactly that the role models that I
needed to see. At the time, there weren't very many
other As I said before Females, I made the decision
(12:52):
to go teach, and I taught for two years in
the city, mainly taught biology and what a fabulous experience
and I could spend the most of the time talking
to you about all the lessons that I learned in
those two years. That was my first exposure experience in
terms of certainly having to stand up in front of
an audience and make sure you're capturing the attention and
(13:12):
the imaginations of ninth graders. I always think whenever I'm
in a presentation, now I can do what I had
to do back then in terms of ninth graders. I
got this, but it was a really exciting time for
me in terms of learning a lot about myself. The
sort of passion and love for teaching others was sort
of you know born in those moments, and I think
(13:33):
the reason then you're probably gonna ask in terms of
how did you get to marketing? What I found is
I had to make more money than I was making
in order to, you know, make ends meet at the time,
and so I took some summer jobs along the way
and advertising and marketing, and when the offers came for
full time jobs, I took the chance, not really knowing
(13:56):
a lot about marketing or advertising, but learning along the way.
And then I've never looked back from those moments. Do
you think you still as a manager wind up teaching? Absolutely.
I grew up, as I told you, with a mom
who was a teacher. Her mom was a teacher as well,
my father, as I described to you, as a teacher
in so many ways as well. And yes, that's what
(14:18):
I gravitate to. And I feel, particularly now, Bob and
the role I'm in now, that it's important for me
not only to be the teacher, but also to be
ambitious for others and to draw them out and to
help them along in their career path and their career journey.
(14:38):
And I do spend a lot of time mentoring and
helping others, both in and outside of the company as
they think about what they want to do, where they
want to be, and what I will tell you. As
much as I'm a teacher, I'm also the student, and
I truly mean that. I think you have to be curious,
You have to be asking questions all the time, and
I'm often seeking out no matter where that person is,
(15:00):
from what experience they've had, I'm just seeking out the
person that has the knowledge the expertise given our industry
is so rapidly changing and evolving, So let's make the
move to American Express. You you had a brief stop
at nine X now Verizon, and then you began an
American Express. Did you plan on a career in American Express?
(15:21):
How did you get there? I got there through a
reference from a friend, and I was very excited to
be a part of American Express iconic brand, a global brand,
one known back then for its marketing prowess and expertise,
and so I was excited to be a part of
(15:43):
this company and to have the opportunity actually to think
about both consumers and businesses, and also have the opportunity
to travel and to learn and understand about different markets.
For someone who had really grown up and spent most
of her time here in the in the US. But
(16:03):
I never expected to be here as long as I have.
But here's why I've been here this long. The challenges
have always been there for me. The opportunities, the ability
to understand different customer segments have not always been in marketing.
I've been in business development, I've been in partner negotiations,
I've been in product development. There's just a tremendous amount
(16:26):
of opportunity both from a segment and a functional perspective.
And also what has really kept me here as the people.
Just an amazing, inspiring group of people. The culture is
all about the people in the relationships. They're very special,
and I've had just tremendous mentors, supporters, leaders along the
(16:47):
way who pushed me, helped me grow. It's just been
a fabulous experience. And I truly mean that, I really
really mean that. I suspect that there's something in the
culture there. I have my stent with American Express when
they owned MTV and I had Jim Robinson is still
a friend and was mentor. Luke Gershner was there at
(17:07):
the time. A lady named Sandra Meyer who has passed away,
sadly many years ago. Every time I encountered them, they
tried to teach me something. They taught me about fighting brands,
they taught me about halo effects, they taught me the
stuff that was sort of an NBA And I don't
do you think it's in the culture or was I
just at that moment and got it and you were
at that moment and got it. Oh, it's definitely in
(17:29):
our d n A. And here's how I'm going to
relate it to sort of what's happening now. No, we've
not talked much about COVID and the pandemic, but the
focus certainly is always on, you know, our customers and
putting our customers first. But it also has been about
putting our colleagues first. And you know, we actually call
(17:51):
our employees colleagues. And I think that actually, just bob
in and of itself tells you a bit about the
learning culture, the develop men and sort of training culture.
And we're just very focused on just ensuring from the
day you step into the either the physical or the
virtual rooms of American Express, that you're part of a team.
(18:13):
We win as a team. And it's been a big
focus for us as we've kind of transitioned through COVID,
and in these early days that we all experienced back
in February and March, our focus was on protecting the
health and the safety of our colleagues. You know, getting
sixty plus colleagues to sort of work at home. You
can only imagine what it took and the energy and
(18:36):
the passion for us to be able to do that
in order for us to kind of serve our customers
and protect the brand. I've been here for a really
long time. It's just really a part of kind of
who we are, and it's expressed through the colleagues, but
just also how we treat our customers every single day.
It's all about that back and promise that I talked
about earlier. So that brought up the American Express piece
(19:00):
of MTV for a reason I wanted to get into.
I want to dig a little bit into your thinking
of philosophy as a marketer. And we've talked about short
consumer attention spans in the past. I know you've talked
a lot about it, and ironically, MX probably had some
hand in causing that. Again, not sure most people know
that MTV was half owned by American Express and MTV
(19:24):
probably was, if not caused, it was accused of causing
the short attention span. And here we are forty years
after the launch of MTV and you're building some of
your key marketing around this notion of short attention spans.
Talk to me a little bit about how you see
the short attention span and how you use it, maybe
(19:45):
any examples you've got. So look, I think where we
are in the world right now, it's often said, and
I know you've heard this said this it's a sixth
second moment, or it's a flip of a hand on
a screen in terms of the moment that you have
to speak to your customers. But I think about it
(20:06):
this way. We American espress are in this for the
long haul. It's about building relationships over time. It's about
reciprocal relationships, you know, meaning that there's a give and take,
that there's a trust built, and they're built in small
moments and they're built in big moments. And that's what
we are doing. And I hear you in terms of
the short attention spans, and you need to sort of
(20:27):
look at from a market or perspective to make sure
that you have the right message and the right channel
at the right time. But to me, it's really being
there in those small moments that happen and to make
sure that we're front and center. We had at the
beginning of Covid a twelve day sprint to stand up
a site that we call Stand for Small, and it's
(20:49):
really all about something that's near and dear to my
heart in terms of what small businesses are needing right now,
you know, given what's happening with the pandemic, and needing
our support, needing resources to help them drive customers to
their establishments, whether that's online or physically. And I point
that out when you ask an example of kind of
(21:11):
short attention span in short time, because for us to
do a twelve day sprint like that and make something happen,
it's really important because people needed it in the moment.
You can't wait to launch and have a big product
launch like we used to do in terms of a
three month timetable. And I think that that's part of
what sort of change, how to deliver something meaningful and
(21:34):
real in the moment, and that Stand for Small. I
think it's just a great example. So so many things
have had to change or accelerate trends that were already happening,
and we're just working in a very agile environment here.
That term all the time, but we're applying it in
terms of the way actually we execute our campaigns. I've
(21:55):
really been a proponent and a champion of this agile
methodology from a marketing perspective, Bob, no more than seven
eight people that can gather around a pizza to sort
of execute a campaign real time, real moments. In these
short sprints. The collaboration is stronger, the colleague or employee
satisfaction is greater, and we're seeing much stronger business results,
(22:17):
you know, as the result of the way we're operating.
And so I think life is fed up. Well, we
have seen and obviously we do business together and we've
seen it up close and personal that you are very nimble,
very agile, that you do look at what's going on
and respond surprisingly fast for a company the size of
(22:39):
American Express. Let me flip to the next piece of it.
You call the consumer American Express is north Star. What
practical ivocations does that have for your marketing? First of all,
it's all driven by customer insights. You know, customer needs
and when you put that at the enter of everything.
(23:02):
That's how you create are our great customer servicing experiences.
It's all the things that I've been talking about in
terms of the changes that we have needed to make
based on sort of our customer needs. We've really pivoted
in terms of making sure that we've given financial assistance
to customers that need it during the pandemic. Those evolved
(23:24):
card member benefits that are based off of customer needs
in the moment, again, whether it was you know, wireless
credits or food delivery offers. We talked a little bit
about the new automated B two B payment solutions. You
can hear and everything that I'm sharing and saying that
it's all about just the customer kind of at the
center of it. It's also in terms of things that
(23:45):
you may not see your understand in the moment, but
to me, it's just important in terms of how we're
talking to our customers, that we're talking to them to
them in real and simple and straightforward language, that we
create experiences that are frictional, lists that are easy, that
are driving value. You've seen and heard and been a
part of a lot of our work as it relates
to small businesses. You know they've been hit so hard
(24:08):
during this pandemic, which is incredibly focused on supporting them
and making sure that we can help our communities and
drive spend to those small businesses. And to me, it's
just always being one step ahead of the customer, having
that insight, making sure that experience is easy, seamless, and
our mission is all about the best customer experience, you know,
(24:31):
every single day, and when a company has run that way,
we're going to be creating and delivering great products and
services to serve our communities. So let me ask you
a question, not just about American expression but marketing in general.
Do you think the data scientists has now moved into
the marketing team as a core member? Absolutely? Period, end
(24:52):
of conversation. How do you use your data scientists in
a different way than you used your research depart it
meant in the old days. So I think for me
it's very clearly to drive just our marketing plans. This
has been an evolution sort of over time so one,
(25:13):
and we've been talking about this already. Certainly want to
be ahead of the trends or on trend in terms
of what our customers are telling us and making sure
we're there to create those products and services. And we've
been talking a lot about that, and I talked about
just operating in those short term sprints, and the data
scientists is so crucial to our ability to be nimble
in terms of sort of spotting those trends and being
(25:34):
able to be agile in terms of either changing your
media choices, changing your creative messaging and imagery choices, and
just working hard on getting much more personalized in terms
of what we would deliver to you, Bob, versus what
we might deliver to somebody else that would be meaningful,
and the sort of sort of the shorter sprints to learn,
(25:57):
and those data scientists are so important in terms of
making the whole ecosystem work in a faster, more effective way.
More on Math and Magic right after this quick break.
(26:18):
Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from
my conversation with Elizabeth Rutledge. So let's talk a little
bit about marketing technique. I've heard you talk in the past,
I've read some of what you've talked about. Is do
you focus a lot on word of mouth? What do
you think it is, how do you use it? Look?
(26:39):
Word of mouth has been around since the beginning of time, right, Caveman,
I think the word of mouth, there's there's a great
rock out there. But this is what's so special about
our brand, American Express. And what we found is it's
just about those personal recommendations. And you know that I
(26:59):
know that I'm this is sort of pretty straightforward. But
what we found is that is a very powerful voice
the person that you care or trust the most. And
you know, we have a program we call Member Get Member,
and I think it's just a formalized name for that
word of mouth. And we've seen that program and the
(27:21):
responses to that program grow dramatically, and so we've worked
hard to sort of digitize that program, Bob, and again
seeing sort of tremendous growth in the double digits in
terms of where we're sourcing our new customers from. And
it makes complete sense to me in terms of hearing
from someone I trust and talk about American Stress and
(27:43):
the benefits, the products, the services in a real and
tangible way. And so we're finding that formalizing that type
of program has been incredibly helpful, resourceful for us, and
it makes sense in terms of a great product but
gets you know, sort of great recos and it's working
well for us. You're talking about the word of mouth
(28:04):
and the people who like the product as sort of
an extension of American Express to help with your marketing.
How do you think about it too in terms of
building brand? And I say that because in my days
at MTV or A O L, when I've had those
products where we became quote unquote the thing I always
have attributed to word of mouth that I don't. I
think all the advertising, everything we do does nothing but
(28:25):
prime the pump for word of mouth. But word of
mouth the only thing that will make you the thing.
American Express is the thing for many people many ways.
When I got my first American Express card in the seventies,
I thought I had arrived. How do you think about
word of mouth in terms of your brand building too?
When you say that, and you asked me that question,
(28:45):
you know I would still go back, certainly to the
member gut member program, but I also think about it,
and I think you were referencing this in terms of
also talking about just the incredible experiences that we have
created it over time, and those experiences maybe you'd be
surprised in terms of the breath and depth of which
(29:07):
I'm going to describe the experiences, and it's back again
to what we're talking about in terms of those big
moments and those little moments. So it might be you know,
being able to get you front row seats to a concert,
and certainly we're probably all craving wanting to be able
to go back to some of those moments um in time,
and I know that they will come back. I'm confident
(29:28):
that they will come back, you know. And some of
those are sort of one time or incredibly special moments,
whether you know, be getting to go to Coachella something
top of mind for me. More recently, it's just you know,
getting to experience the US Tennis Open, and some of
those are incredibly special in terms of what we can
do for customers. And therefore that is a special moment
(29:51):
because usually in all of those events, you're bringing a
family member or a friend, and it's certainly something that's
going to be with you long after that moment. And
talk about brand building, but I also talk about those
moments where you may get a text from us in
terms of a charge that appeared that is not a
charge that you made on your American Express card, and
(30:13):
our ability to be able to seamlessly do that in
a channel of your choice and our ability to resolve
it quickly. Have you know that we have your back
in that moment is another brand building experience and momentum
that I like to call out because it's that sort
of relief like, Oh, they've got my back, they figured
(30:33):
it out there on top of it, they're watching out
for me. It's those kind of moments that are so
important as well. I mentioned that I got my first
American Express card in the mid seventies. At that time,
it was very exclusive, It was very rarefied, It was
tad snobby, but it was a real status symbol I
(30:53):
had arrived. How has American Express been able to expand
its base so much yet still hang onto that specialness
feeling about the card may not be snobby anymore, but
I think you still feel like you're American Express cards
that special card for you too. How have you done that?
So a couple of things that I would comment on,
(31:14):
and it's going to be building on what we've talked
about already. Our brand is special, and I think at
the core of what makes it special, from you know,
a hundred and seventy years ago to today, is it's
all about the service, It's all about the security, it's
all about the trust. And those are three core principles
(31:38):
that stand the test of time and um I think
are incredibly important to what our brand is about and
also the people that want to be, you know, with
us in this American Express community. For me, that's the
specialness and the care with which you know, we take
care of our customers. And it's been important for us
(32:01):
to just make sure that we are an inclusive brand
and that we have a breath and depth of products
and services. And I think that that's how we have
evolved and expanded over time. For me, it's been the growth,
the depth and breadth of our portfolio, but our commitment
a hundred seventy years later to that same excellent service standard,
(32:23):
that security, that trust. I'm going to leave American Express
for a moment, although I'm sure you're gonna answer some
of these questions through that prism, but just as a marketer,
someone with a very broad view of what's going on
in this COVID period, what will Black Friday and Cyber
Monday be this year? Interesting question? The way I think
(32:45):
about that is that I'm going to go back to
sort of my personal roots in terms of shopping small
and caring about the local community. And that's been core
to who I am in terms of just how important
kind of um the neighborhood and the community is. And
so when you ask me about what those moments are
(33:08):
going to look like in time, I hope that they
are really focused on helping our small businesses. I luckily
have a platform here to tell others about it. They
are suffering, many of them will not be in business anymore.
And my hope is that we can support our our
local communities. Some moort those entrepreneurs their spirit to be
(33:31):
advocates for them. You know, they're amazing spirit that got
them to the place that they are in terms of opening,
caring and nurturing their businesses. They need our help now
and that's what I hope those two days and the
moments around them can be more about supporting the local community. Well,
we've done I think some of the best work at
I heart with American Express on Small Business Saturday, going
(33:54):
back really almost to the beginning of that that effort,
and so I certainly appreciate that and agree with you.
Do you think that the COVID experience has caused the
consumer to say, I'm more concerned about my community and
those people I know in my community than I am
necessarily about the lowest price. You know, I'm going to
(34:16):
answer that in a couple of different ways. The first
thing that comes to mind is more of a corporate answer,
and I hope you'll bear with me as I talked
to you about this. You know, I told you we
did a twelve days sprint and we got over you know,
forty and now a hundred corporations together to help with
stan Ford Small Um and to help small businesses. And
I bring that up as an example when you ask
(34:37):
me that question for this reason. Only imagine in twelve
days to get forty large corporations to agree on something.
And I say that because this is I think needs
to be the way forward, the power of collaboration and partnership,
even though in some cases some of us may be
(34:59):
competitive ears. I think that that's what's gonna move us forward.
And I use that as the example to answer your question,
because I think that that's what we're going to need
to do, is embrace our communities. So COVID nineteen probably
the biggest and swiftest change in consumer behavior in my life,
(35:20):
and I'm an old guy from that. What permanent changes
do you see in fundamental consumer behavior? Do you have it?
You identified some yet some trends that I think have
been accelerated, they were already happening. Um, certainly no surprise
in terms of the growth of e commerce and online behavior,
and I definitely know and see that and know that
(35:43):
you know that will be there. And I think we
at America Spress need to ensure that we are providing
our customers with all they need to, you know, seamlessly
make purchases online. So that's one I definitely see continuing.
Another on that I think has been accelerated is just
(36:03):
the nature and ways of payments. But I think you know,
you're seeing sort of a growth in terms of contactless
payments as as well, or you're seeing just changes in
terms of automation around BE two B payments as well.
So I think you're going to see a lot in
the in the overall payment space, both given COVID in
terms of sort of helping push some of those trends,
(36:25):
and I think that they will be there long after
the virus is certainly gone or hopefully contained. And I
also know that we will return to travel. There are
so many of us that have it in our heart
and are itching um to get out there, explore and
discover again. And I know that many consumers are starting
(36:48):
to do that, and I am confident that you will
see that as well, and you'll probably see it a
new and different ways, new services, new benefits that come
from the time that we've spent indoors. But I can
guarantee you that desire to explore and discover is deep
within many of us, and I know will be there
(37:08):
at American Express with products and services to help those
who want to travel have those great experiences. So those
are a couple of the trends that I think are
either there and been accelerating or you know, you'll see
some differences going forward. So before we close up, I
want to ask you one more piece of advice, and
this one I'm gonna ask you think of one sentence.
(37:30):
What would that advice be if you could, that you
would give to your twenty one year old self. I
think it's always being curious. I think curiosity kind of
fuels creativity. And then I would always want to make
sure even back then that I was asking what kind
of impact. Do you want to have? Math and magic
(37:52):
is about that special combination of analytics and data with
sheer creativity. Math and magic, and we end each op
episode with a shout out to the best of both. Now,
you're a great student of marketing and business. You know
many people, You've seen a lot of people, who would
you say deserves to shout out for the best in
analytics the math side of marketing. That's a somewhat easy one.
(38:14):
It's a fellow colleague, Douck Buckminster. He's the president of
our Global Consumer Services Group, and he just has an
amazing ability to look at a set of numbers, see trends,
see gaps, the insights, and then make it happen. It's
that applied math. It's it's brings something to life, take action,
make a difference with all of those numbers, insights and trends. Okay,
(38:36):
so let's go to the second one. Who is the
person who has the magic? Who gets this shout out
for being the greatest magician? Easy, easy, easy one for me,
Bob here, and that would be our creative partner and
a great brand ambassador, lin Manuel Miranda. I think his
name speaks for obviously most people know him for for
(38:57):
Hamilton's and he's just a creative genius on so many levels.
His creativity, and you know, he has a strong point
of view, and I think he's just his brilliance, his focus, determination,
his love of community. There's so many things there. I mean,
it's just it's definitely Lyn by Far. I love that.
(39:18):
I love Elizabeth. Thanks for joining us today and thanks
for sharing your ideas, insights and experiences. Thanks for having me.
Bob really appreciate it. Here are a few things I've
picked up in my conversation with Elizabeth. One, the secret
(39:38):
to agile decision making use a small team. When COVID
nineteen hit, American Express was quick to adapt to customers needs,
which Elizabeth attributes to a lean team. As Elizabeth says,
if you want to put your ideas in action quickly,
your team should be small enough that you can feed
them with one pizza. To navigate corporate life through the
(40:00):
Elizabeth's father taught her very early to make business personal,
and American Express employees are always referred to as colleagues
to foster a culture of empathy and respect. Three, If
you have a unique skill set, use it to your advantage.
Elizabeth is quick to point out that she's an introvert,
a quality that might not seem an obvious fit for
(40:22):
a CMO. She says it forces her to prepare well
for meetings, plus makes her a great mentor for quieter colleagues.
For leaders should be both teachers and students. As a
former high school biology teacher, Elizabeth says it's important to
maintain a sense of curiosity and understand that there's a
lot to learn from every encounter, even when you're leading
(40:45):
the team. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it
for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math
and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show
is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger
for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no
small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael
(41:08):
Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and
of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone
who helped bring this show to your ears. Until next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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