March 9, 2022 • 37 mins
Kate Bell, investigative journalist and author, introduces us to Gerald Hayes - the subject of her investigation. Her conversations begin to reveal the close-knit community of people affected by the death of Gerald’s 18-year-old son, Niles Hayes, who was killed by police during a traffic stop. We hear footage from Kate’s investigation that begins to shed light on what really went on that fateful day.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains
culturally insensitive language and violence. Michelle, Okay, yeah, come on here.
Thank you so much because here's okay, Yeah, that's fine.
(00:25):
You need any waterying? Actually fine? Thank you. Last night
I was thinking about canceling all you And it's not
that I don't want to do this. It's just a
lot to revisit. Everything has happened a little over twelve
months ago, an eighteen year old African American young man
(00:46):
named Niles Hayes was driving a family friends luxury vehicle
when he was stopped for a routine traffic violation. Officially,
it was for an illegal lane change, but most likely
he was stopped for another common defense d w B
driving while black. The police officers that pulled him over,
Sergeant Place, along with his partner, Officer Webb, antagonized Niles
(01:08):
and things escalate quickly. The two cops then forcibly removed
Niles from the problems and proceed to beat him into submission.
Niles father, Gerald Hayes, who was working construction nearby, sees
his son in peril and instinctively rushes into the fray
to protect him. More violence ensues and after a short scuffle,
(01:36):
Gerald could see up her hand. But Gerald's intervention of
the police attack was only the first of many high
stakes decisions he would make on this long day and
night that would go on to captivate a nation. But
the situation made a dramatic turn when convicted Felon and
father Gerald Hayes took matters and Gerald assaulted the police officers,
(01:58):
who appeared to be using an excessive amount. Me, the
most important thing is that law enforcement do the right thing,
and we can be afraid to call this what it is.
This is terrorist. Oh my god, come on and being inflammatory.
I'm journalist and author Kate Bell, and you're listening to
(02:20):
hashtag matter Part one. Within hours of the police stop,
footage of the entire altercation between Niles and the arresting officers,
(02:41):
including the part where we see his father Gerald Russian
to fight the cops off, gets posted online and it
goes viral. The response was so massive that it resulted
in the most commented on threat in the history of
social media. I just watched the video showing what the
cops it to that boy in l A and I'm
(03:01):
literally sick to my stomach. I got a message for
all you Black Lives Matter Colin capernators out there, get
a fucking job already. Hey look, man, I see that
somebody on hands was talking real reckless about cat. Go
sit your punk ass down. Also, I want to say
rest in power to Nils and to Gerald. Come one
father to another. No man should have to go through
(03:24):
what you're going through. Guys, this is clearly a warning
sign for all real Americans to get ready. Gerald. Hey,
he's got him shook, bro. That's on. But out of
the millions of comments online in this endless see of punditry,
something about this next post I'm going to play for
you by social media influencer At Wilkin. Sassi has stuck
with me the most. Here we go with this ship again.
(03:46):
We got video evidence that shows the truth. But the police,
the police, unions, the d A, and the media is
gonna twist everything up and get it wrong. Generald is
a hero for taking Madison to his own hands. And
if you cannot say that, they're I'm not fucking with you.
They gotta stout killing us, y'all. Why the fund do
(04:08):
I even have to say this shit? So what is
it about? At woken Sassy's post that I keep coming
back to. Ultimately, I think it boils down to the
fact that people's perspective of Gerald Hayes is so extreme
that it drew a line in the sand. Because for
a lot of folks, what you think of Gerald tells
them everything they need to know about you. Either you're
(04:28):
on their side or you're on the other side, with
zero tolerance for anything in between, which brings me to this.
As polarizing as Gerald's actions were that day, shouldn't we
get to know the man at the center of it all?
Because beyond the media snippets and sound bites, what really
drove him to make the extreme choices he did that day?
And how did he have the constitution to follow through
(04:49):
with it? And above all, I guess I want us
all to revisit this remarkable day's events and gather a
more informed decision about what we witnessed. Because if at
woken Sassy is right that this is one of those
events you have to chew sides on, it leaves someone
like me, who was split on how I feel about Gerald,
to have to finally answer one simple question, is he
(05:11):
a hero or is he a villain? Now? I'm not
naive in thinking that most people don't already have a
fully developed opinion on the man, or that my perspective,
as objective as I tried to be, isn't impacted by
forty five years of being white in America. But here's
why I think it's worth taken another look. The opinions
we hold may not be totally informed. There are literally
(05:35):
thousands of hours of audio recordings, phone footage, video surveillance, bodycams, transcripts,
and more of what happened that day. Plus I'm in
the process of interviewing all the pivotal players who had
an impact on what would eventually transpire, and me and
my team are stitching together all these sources into one
timeline with the hope that we can assemble a fully
(05:57):
rendered view of Gerald Hayes, the harpenter, the single father,
the ex convict, the man. Because if we really want
to understand what went on that day, we have to
get inside Gerald's head. And in order to do this right,
the first thing we have to do is go back
to the beginning, the part you don't know, m h.
(06:40):
We're listening to Gerald Hayes's pre dawned workout routine by
all accounts, Gerald Hayes starts this day like any other,
recording himself as he rotates through an insanely intense assortment
of push ups, crunches, and sit ups. Yeah, where's my
(07:06):
son sleep? You know he will be a hard mess
when you go off to school. I'll be fine, ain't. No,
Gloody said that you ain't gonna be fine and never
had noble. Don't, don't, don't get cute with me, he no.
(07:28):
Now to Mamma Launcher, Niles had been with his dad
three days straight on this new schedule we set up,
but he wasn't returning to my text or my call,
so I pulled up at five three in the morning.
This conversation is from my first interview with Niles is
mother Michelle Hayes, And let me just say for the
record that in my twenty three year career, I've never
(07:50):
met a woman who's experienced real tragedy who's displayed more
grace and strength than she did throughout this process. Michelle
has got a lot of moxie and she's a straight shooter.
So Gerald convinced me to flip our co parent arrangement.
He said he needed to teach now some man skills,
but it's tough when you're about to lose your baby
(08:10):
to adulthood. And then I pretty much go ahead and
agree to give up the last three months between high
school and college so he could spend more time with
his father. So you weren't okay with the arrangement. I mean,
intellectually I was fine with it. But more than that,
a mother knows her child. And as big, smart, artistic
(08:35):
and social as Niles was, you know, he was super naive,
like a lot of boys nowadays, about things like change
and attire or even like start a barbecue fire. So
as much as I wanted to keep Niles close before
he left for school, I knew that Gerald was right.
Plus there was always that thing between both of them
(08:57):
were they always wanted to make up for lost time.
And when you say make up for lost time, you're
referring to Gerald being away at prison. M Yeah, how
was that on Niles rough Kate. Gerald left when Niles
was five, and he was gone, so he was twelve
and a half. So yeah, that wasn't easy for the
(09:20):
first year. So Niles would say things like, you know,
is Daddy coming home today? And I would tell him
Daddy's on a work trip. But finally I had to
just tell him the truth. What made you give in?
Kids are smart kates. I realized he was just giving
me an opportunity to come out of a lie. Anyway,
(09:41):
from there it got better for both of us. Did
you communicate a lot with Gerald all he was in prison?
Oh my god. Yes, Gerald was just on this mission
to be the best freaking father on the planet. I
mean he used to annoy the heck out of me
when he was away, sending all kinds of letters with
magazine articles, book suggestions. So basically he was telling me
(10:06):
how to be a mother from where he was And
at first I took offense to it and would be like, look,
it is too hard being a single parent raising a child,
and you just adding extra work. And finally he said, Michelle,
you're not You're not alone. We're doing this together. I'm
doing everything I can. So he really he stayed in
(10:28):
it a hundred percent. And then when he came home,
you know, he was still just on that mission to
be the best father to his son that he could be.
But Gerald doesn't really do moderation, so you know, he
had to be a role model times, a hundred times
a thousand. So basically we he had done such a
(10:51):
good job with novels over the years. I kind of
wanted to, you know, reward him, reward both of them
with m hm. Now when your mother rings, yourself, hither back. Sorry,
(11:13):
I don't want any forced apologies. Why don't you go
show what you've been working on. You're supposed to be
a surprise, show me what. Just go get it. It
looks great now. We're making this jewelry box for you.
I just don't need to varnish it and put lining
on the inside. You made this for me. Oh this
(11:37):
is mom. Don't cry. You want to say it the
jewelry box? Yes? Please? And Niles did this by hand yep.
(11:58):
Oh wow mm A detail in the carving is amazing.
I know that was nice. Amazing m hmm. Don't go Gerald,
you're not gonna say grace on m Father, God, we
(12:25):
thank you for this meal. We thank you for our health,
and we thank you for our sin. We ask that
you protect and look over him as he carries on
in his journey to college. Father, we ask that you
continue to shine your light on Gerald so that he
may remain steadfast in your light, never to return to
the dark days. Amen. Amen, Amen. The video recorders stopped rolling.
(12:52):
Seconds later. I asked Michelle if she recalled anything else
that stood out from that morning, anything that I should know.
Here's what she said. We didn't need like that much
hardly ever, but I'm super glad that we got to
have that moment together as a family. After breakfast, Gerald
(13:18):
left the kitchen to take a shower and get ready
for work. And when I said goodbye to Niles, I
remember hugging him and kissing his cheeks like I used
to when he was little, and he didn't stop me.
That was nice. And was that the last time you
(13:39):
were with Nils alive? Yeah? Yeah, h. Shortly after Michelle
(14:01):
left the apartment, the next person to see Gerald and
Niles that morning was a lively character who goes by
the name Big h. His government name is Alvin Cox,
but nobody dares call him that. Why did they call
you big Age? Back when uh I got put on
the set, Age was my big home. So all of
(14:23):
the old g's at that time started calling me little Age.
So how did you go from little age to big Age?
I put in that work, motherfucker's started hearing about me.
Next thing, you know, I went from little age to
big age. Sign of respect. He's not lying about that either.
You can tell by the way people's body language would
have changes when they're in the presence of big Age
(14:43):
that he is very well respected or feared. So you
saw Niles and Gerald the morning of day that ship
went down. Yeah, I sink both of them. They came
out right there over there by the light blue apartment complex.
Yeah yeah, see that pathway that cuts between those two
(15:04):
big patches of brown down grass. Gerald always parked his
old beat up assholes will Bill right there by the street.
That was his spot. And I was posted up in
my ride directly across the street, and he gave me
like a little what up? Not did Gerald say anything
to you at all? I don't think you really like
chopping up with me too much. I've been knowing Gerald forever,
(15:24):
like before he was reformed this ship. You know, we
came up together. I don't think he liked someone like
me seeing the way he was. And how was that
like normal? Because he knows I know he ain't normal.
He was just Clark Kentny Wait, what what's Clark Kenning
(15:45):
that like? Around here where we come from. When someone
holds it down for the set, people respect that. Like
you know about how he got that limp? No, well
that's I think a big part of oh Gerald is
the MP. Yeah, all that, the lamp, the attack at
Solid Dad really just this time at prison in general,
(16:09):
this institution has always had a bit of a reputation,
unfortunately for being a pretty violent place. That's William Powell.
He's a CEO a correctional training facility more commonly known
as Solidad State Prison in California. Gerald did his bid
during time back when black and brown relations were really bad.
They're always really bad, but they were worse than really
(16:32):
bad when he was here. Can you tell me about
the time when he was attacked? Which attack must have
happened at least a dozen times? Gerald is what we
call a triple OSI. You know, when you've got power,
especially on the answer, people are going to test you. Um,
(16:54):
big age. I've heard of an o G, But what's
a triple o G. That's another way of saying that
her end things in here. Man. To his credit, he
did a pretty good job. Too strange to hear you say,
it's so casually say what uh? I don't know. It
just seems sort of counterintuitive that a CEO would admit
to the fact that an inmate ran things. I agree,
(17:15):
it is. It's it's counterintuitive. It's also a reality in prison.
A social hierarchy's going to develop among inmates and even
the guards too. It's just human nature, you know. He
he probably could have been a grand chess master or
or have worked for the Rand Corporation or something like that.
(17:35):
Very much a strategic thinker, but you know, it's also
very violent. Short fuse you look, I'm not a psychologist,
but there's probably some personality disorder there was he ever
diagnosed in therapy. His sentence was as diagnosis. No, No,
we don't. We don't have resources like that. And why
(17:57):
is that funding? People don't give a ship And you know,
personality disorders are almost the keyest survival here. If you
don't have one, you might be better off developed with one.
Like I said, prison is a violent place. Yeah, so okay,
back to that. There's a story I've heard about Latino
gang members attacking Gerald. Oh you want to know about that.
(18:21):
What you have to understand, Kate, if that is the
numbers game in prison, that's why for the most part,
White boys stick together, Mexicans and Central America stick together,
and Nigga's stick together. Well, not all the time, but
when it's go time is to give best interest to
know what side you want. Gerald was barn none the
(18:42):
most effective leader I've seen, making bloods and crips, squats
whatever beasts. They had a lot of people around here
didn't like that, so it was put on it. Can
you describe the incident for me? Gerald is being transferred
from this shoe special How's unit to d blocker, So
(19:03):
it was basically a lame duck duck. Lame duck is
one of prisoners alone and easy to pray on, no protection.
Here's the play. Three essays in the line. It makes
being moved in one direction and gee and some random masks.
Nobody's coming out to home. It's going an opposite way.
But Gerald, he's smart as fun, so we already didn't
(19:23):
pet game, and he could tell some ship was about
to go down. All right here Kate as the first
sound pulls out of his ship and steps up to attack,
Gerald just pops him in the face and disarms all right.
As Gerald takes to share from dude in the front,
the other two essays squeezed down on Jee and starts
shaky from behind, like bang bang. So what Gerald is
(19:46):
getting hit? He staffed through in the front, kind of
swoops his body around and use him as a shield
from the dudes hit him in the back. And now
they got stopped because they don't want to hit down home.
That was their big mistake. Adn't run away. The best
thing you can do is make the person attacking you
hesitate the levels of playing field. It's like that was
(20:07):
all he needed to regroup sheet he went from prey
to predator. So what happened to the guys who attacked him?
One dig the other two were seriously injured. But it's
not like Gerald made it out unscathed. He got worked
over pretty bad in the incident. And I believe he
left and paralyzed and half the one leg and he
(20:27):
lost the kidney. And so wait, I'm a bit confused,
Like I know the other inmates started the fight, But
did Gerald get into legal trouble at all? Check this?
She represented himself and beat all charges, case dismissed, and
that that's just some ghetto superhero legendary ship. I mean,
(20:48):
it was self defense. And when he gets attacked like that,
anyone deserves to be able to protect themselves. What's crazy
is most dudes would have resume. Jeez, they come back
to the streets and you know, use that reputation to
you know, make a little money, handle things, run ship.
(21:09):
But it's almost like he said, Okay, I paid enough
dudes for me and my son, and now I'm out
the game. So it was just like, no, Gerald was untouchable.
That's a given, but so was Nowls. How do you
mean like nobody was gonna pressure now Is to claim
and set of join the game, because then you knew
what that meant. I'll have to deal with that dude
(21:31):
Gerald exactly, and no one wanted to see Gerald have
to come out of retirement and getting that ass. So
what was Nails like? Different? Like rock star different though,
but you know we don't really do rock stars in
the hood. Do you feel me? Can you give me
an example of how Niles stood out? M let me see,
(21:53):
Nowles might come out that front door wearing a full
length pink overcoat and matching headscarf, some e centric type ship.
The nigga was just other. But all of the young
homies really looked up to him, And was that because
of Gerald's reputation. No, no, no, Niles was just special.
He was his own man. And if you really want
(22:14):
to know, I think they saw something in him that
they wished they could be, but that they knew they
could never be. They knew he was going places like
far from the matter of fact, anybody ever tell you
about that Gucci A No, what's up? Yeah, the Guccia.
I'll still be using that ship to this day. This
is Tray Mac talking. He and Niles were best friends
(22:37):
going back to second grade. From all accounts, whether it's
Michelle or Big Age, these two were almost inseparable. Me
and some of the other homies from around the way
started getting papered up off a hustle or whatever, you know,
doing what we do and with that extra cash, we
were going shopping. Right. Wait, when you say hustling, does
that include Niles. Niles was a hustle for show, but
(22:58):
he didn't get down like we did it. How do
you mean like Niles would never do anything that would
get him in trouble. He was never gonna break the
law because you know it's possible beyond him. His mom's
too Gucci. Yeah, so me and some of the other
friends are making a little money, and we started buying
our Kasa fly ship, a lot of Louis Findy and
(23:19):
a gang of Gucci. But Niles was like, no, you're
wasting all your money. And at first we would be
like get out here with that ship there. One day
he got fed up and was like, I I'm gonna
show you. After that, nobody saw this dude for like
a weekend. Then he pops up on the Monday, like, hey,
put this thing on program on your phone. Put what
(23:40):
on my phone? The Gucci app, but it's spelled g
O O C H I. Okay, So how does it work?
The idea is simple, right, It pulls prices for expensive
stuff you want to buy, like let's just say a
thousand dollar jacket, and then it maps out how much
that thing would be worth been five years or ten
(24:01):
years even, and then I will show you that that
same jacket down the line. They work ship. But it
also shows you how much money you would have if
you put that g you spent on clothes and let's
just say a bond or some other investment stocks, money
market accounts, commodities of man. You see, your money could
have grown and it's like, oh, ship, the nigga needs
to be fiscally responsible. You feel me, Chin up, nose down,
(24:25):
Rise together? Wait, what's that was like noles thing? You know,
a little trademark you used to say, chin up. It's like,
you know, self respect, now respect for others, Like, don't
look down on nobody. Rise together, we all eat, we
all win. Jeez. From the time Big Age sees Gerald
(24:51):
and Niles getting the car and right off, it's about
a forty minute drive from their apartment to Gerald's work
in an area of Los Angeles known as the Valley,
Jason forty two Sports Bar and Grill was assumed to
be open to the public restaurant where Gerald was working construction,
and thanks to a decision made by the bar's owner,
Jay Shaw, we have a boon of recordings of Gerald
(25:11):
and just about everyone else who entered the establishment that day. Jas,
a former professional football player, was obsessed with security. Because
of this, Every inch of the building was surveiled in
four K video and audio, and there's construction paper and
newspaper taped to the inside of the windows, obstructing anyone
street side from looking into the building while it's being renovated.
(25:40):
Love the door behind you. As Gerald turns on the lights,
we get a good look at the bar's interior. The
best way I can describe the place is that it
has a Parisian dining hall look mixed with the modern
cool hip vibe, maybe even more inviting with the sports
themed paraphernalia mostly featuring you guessed it highlights of Jayce
Shaw collegiate and professional football playing career. Hey day say
(26:04):
Geezy Quick? Playing around man. For the larger part of
the morning and early afternoon, Gerald and Niles work together
in a way that's best described as harmonic. They both
don construction coveralls and goggles, and at a glance, it
can be difficult to distinguish who is who in the
surveillance video, but an obvious teller is Gerald's awkward gait
(26:26):
when he limps from one end of the dining room
to another. Hey who that there's me? This is Jay Shaw.
Compared to the frame photographs that almost deified Jay's past
prowess and athleticism, where we see chiseled muscles and clear
eyed focus, the man we see now looks compromised by
(26:46):
time and myriad tools that nature uses to wear down
the youth Hubrists and anatomy. As Jay's crosses from the
entrance over to the main bar, he pops five aspirant
and washes it down with a cocktail of pepto bismol
coffee and a splashy pour of whiskey. Are you guys
ready to order? Let me get a club soda with
(27:08):
two lime weathers in the California on the police, Jay's
greed to an interview as long as we did it
at his favorite breakfast spot in Venice Beach, which is
walking distance to the sober living house that he's been
staying in for the last two months. What do you
remember most about the earlier part of that day? Were
you in a good mood or a bad mood? Or
(27:29):
I remember drinking a lot? Uh? Let me see, I
was hundreds of thousand dollars in debt, I was going
through a divorce and I need to get the ball
open a staff so that I had a money coming in.
That was my mood, okay. So speaking of money, I
think I caught something unsurveillance, a dispute between you and
Gerald about past to payment. I wouldn't call it a
(27:50):
dispute so much as we had a conversation. But do
you remember what was said? It's true. Yeah, he had
been putting into was working our DeLint. So did he
threaten you? What now? Like that between us? I wanted
to square things up with him because I owed them
big time. Honestly, I didn't know when I would be
(28:13):
able to because my money was so funny. Then he
gave me a slight out when he brought up the game.
Listen to this exchange. I haven't mentioned the tickets to
now's either. If ticket to nice basketball game? You said
you had to hook up? Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
my bad, my bad. Yeah yeah, we're all good man.
I just forgot to pick him up. Hey can I try? Hey? No, yo?
(28:39):
What's up now? They? Oh? Boy, look at you get
big and ship. Hey look it. I need you to
make a run to my attorney's office and pick up
some tickets for us. I'm taking you and your pops
to the basketball game. What now? Yeah? I know, he
take my car. You're going to Beverly Hills. Boy, you
might as well right and stop for real school. As
(29:04):
Niles exits the bar to go on the errand, he
posts a few selfies of himself in front of Jason's car,
which was a Matt Pearl seven series BMW with fancy
rims in an aerodynamic looking spoiler. You could imagine how
an eighteen year old kid would be excited to drive
this car. So you mentioned before that you were caught
(29:26):
off guard when Gerald brought up going to the game.
How did you get the tickets so fast? I still
here to connects. I had quite burnt all my bridges here.
I got the call maybe five minutes before now showed up.
This is Melissa Hutchinson. She works for the sports and
entertainment law firm where Niles picked up the tickets. When
(29:48):
you're working on the reception desk, the job is essentially
three things. One maintain a level of alertness to be
super welcoming and three make sure guests have valid dation
before they leave. And and do you remember anything in particular?
My boss at the time was a little miffed that
he had to give up seats for the game. Technically
(30:09):
they were for clients, but if no one claimed them,
he usually got to take his family. And what was
Niles like. I never told anybody this, but I totally
forgot to give him his parking validation. Usually dotted my
eyes and crossed my teas with that sort of thing.
But he sort of knocked me off my game. How's that?
(30:30):
He was just really friendly and cute, charming. He asked
me if he could follow me on my socials, and
I gave him my info. We got so lost in
conversation I almost forgot to give him the tickets. You
kind of liked him, didn't you. I mean yeah, A
little bit after he left, I followed him back and
(30:51):
you know, started looking through his feed. Then he added
me in his last video, and wow, you know what
happened after that? Melissa's referring, of course, to the ill
fated encounter with the police where Niles gets pulled over.
But one more critical thing happened that we have to
cover as part of the mesh up events. Because while
(31:11):
Niles was leaving Beverly Hills with the tickets, back at
the bar, Jason was giving his former sports agent Martin
Simms a tour of his restaurant. It wasn't just a
tool for ships, he gave his Kate. My plan was
to hit man Nu for some caves. I put the
all man but it's on him, hoping that I could
open up those deepotsies. Jason was an absolute mess that day,
(31:33):
but then again to me always was really that's Martin
Simms talking. The best way I can describe him is
risk averse. Jay smelled like booze and wouldn't stop going
on and on about some ridiculously overpriced door knobs he
just got. I asked Jason about the door knobs as well.
Do I remember, Kate? Those things were antique European rustick
(32:00):
brons them ships was too random, peace, Martin elaborates. Then
he tells me to put my hands on them to
get the feeling. And I don't know. I mean, they
felt like door knobs, Kate, complete waste of money. Okay,
ka ka, let me tell you. Ex person said, I
(32:21):
like to impress my potential investors. Yeah, make him feel
like they was having an experience. Even better, paint the
picture for Jason's a salesman, and I'll give him that
NonStop talking. He's going on and on and on, But
that in area is right through that. Then it converts
into a club. After ten pm. We'll be drawn a
(32:42):
thousand customers a night. Easy. But then he takes me
into his office where he has this Florida ceiling glass
case vault with an arsenal of guns. Yeah. My I
didn't like my toys. So I was straight up with him.
I'm like, Jason, I can't invest in this. Either you're
(33:04):
going to get arrested because of this this armory, or
someone's gonna get hurt. And you know, I even asked him,
I said, what do you need this for anyway? And
what did he say? He said he needed it for protection.
And I'm still from the hood. So look, by this point,
I was just ready to leave, and I should have,
but Jason does what he does. He starts pressing me,
(33:27):
ropes me back in. He says, hey, I gotta takes
to the game, blah blah blah and all this, that
and the other. So in order to get a second
away from him leaning on me to come in on
this bar, I said, look, I need to take some
pigs and videos of the place. You know, do my
due diligence. Now, mind you, I had already made my decision.
(33:47):
There was no way in hell I'm investing. But I
know him. We go way back, and I don't want
to be rupe. Don't remember what time he started taking
photos of the place. Yeah, it must have been around.
According to the time stamp on Niles of social media feed,
he went live for the last time at three o
nine pm while stopped at a red light on his
(34:08):
way back to Jason's forty two. Framed in the shot,
we see the steering wheels BMW logo and he's proudly
fanning the four basketball game tickets. Listen, Yeah, shout out
to j Shaw. I am Melissa H for the tickets
to the game. Damn got the cop that's gonna join me.
(34:37):
As Niles adjust his phone, the video post ends. Did
he mean to stop it? Or was it an accident?
Every time I watch it, I wonder did he have
any idea that the video he just cut short would
be at last? Could he sense that he was about
to have a contentious exchange with the police? Did he
(34:57):
know that they would have a hand in his death.
Despite all the recordings and testimonies that I've gathered, those
few precious seconds between the end of his post and
the cops approaching his car will forever belonged to Niles
and the unknown. Coming up on the next episode of
(35:17):
Hashtag Matter, Hands up on the Dash? You want to
put my hands up on the dash? Now all right,
all right, all right, back, stop that you're like a criminal. Comply,
but how am I acting like a crimson? And final
warning stop outside of the vehicle. We will recount what
we do know about the police, though that goes so
terribly wrong. Hashtag Matter starring Aman Joseph as Gerald Hayes,
(35:47):
Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason Shaw Hayley,
Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Sims,
and Snoop Dogg as Big h s Now. Performances by
Nile Bullock as Niles Hayes, Serena Pouncy as Michelle Hayes,
Alfonso Faustino as Sergeant Hobbs, John Lacy as Commander Emmonds,
(36:10):
Alex Kihano as Captain Flores, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson,
and Stephen Robert Wallenberg as Detective Halmer. With appearances by
Mercy Malick, Ryan Smith, Amir Tali, Alex Vaughan, Colin Ward,
and Orval Williams. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by
(36:31):
Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman,
Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp and Aimon Joseph Audio designed by
Wolf at the Door. Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon,
music by Jonathan Sandford, Edited by Naron Oling and our
(36:52):
sound director in Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and
Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a
production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart
Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. For
more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains
culturally insensitive language and violence. Michelle, Okay, yeah, come on here.
Thank you so much because here's okay, Yeah, that's fine.
(00:25):
You need any waterying? Actually fine? Thank you. Last night
I was thinking about canceling all you And it's not
that I don't want to do this. It's just a
lot to revisit. Everything has happened a little over twelve
months ago, an eighteen year old African American young man
(00:46):
named Niles Hayes was driving a family friends luxury vehicle
when he was stopped for a routine traffic violation. Officially,
it was for an illegal lane change, but most likely
he was stopped for another common defense d w B
driving while black. The police officers that pulled him over,
Sergeant Place, along with his partner, Officer Webb, antagonized Niles
(01:08):
and things escalate quickly. The two cops then forcibly removed
Niles from the problems and proceed to beat him into submission.
Niles father, Gerald Hayes, who was working construction nearby, sees
his son in peril and instinctively rushes into the fray
to protect him. More violence ensues and after a short scuffle,
(01:36):
Gerald could see up her hand. But Gerald's intervention of
the police attack was only the first of many high
stakes decisions he would make on this long day and
night that would go on to captivate a nation. But
the situation made a dramatic turn when convicted Felon and
father Gerald Hayes took matters and Gerald assaulted the police officers,
(01:58):
who appeared to be using an excessive amount. Me, the
most important thing is that law enforcement do the right thing,
and we can be afraid to call this what it is.
This is terrorist. Oh my god, come on and being inflammatory.
I'm journalist and author Kate Bell, and you're listening to
(02:20):
hashtag matter Part one. Within hours of the police stop,
footage of the entire altercation between Niles and the arresting officers,
(02:41):
including the part where we see his father Gerald Russian
to fight the cops off, gets posted online and it
goes viral. The response was so massive that it resulted
in the most commented on threat in the history of
social media. I just watched the video showing what the
cops it to that boy in l A and I'm
(03:01):
literally sick to my stomach. I got a message for
all you Black Lives Matter Colin capernators out there, get
a fucking job already. Hey look, man, I see that
somebody on hands was talking real reckless about cat. Go
sit your punk ass down. Also, I want to say
rest in power to Nils and to Gerald. Come one
father to another. No man should have to go through
(03:24):
what you're going through. Guys, this is clearly a warning
sign for all real Americans to get ready. Gerald. Hey,
he's got him shook, bro. That's on. But out of
the millions of comments online in this endless see of punditry,
something about this next post I'm going to play for
you by social media influencer At Wilkin. Sassi has stuck
with me the most. Here we go with this ship again.
(03:46):
We got video evidence that shows the truth. But the police,
the police, unions, the d A, and the media is
gonna twist everything up and get it wrong. Generald is
a hero for taking Madison to his own hands. And
if you cannot say that, they're I'm not fucking with you.
They gotta stout killing us, y'all. Why the fund do
(04:08):
I even have to say this shit? So what is
it about? At woken Sassy's post that I keep coming
back to. Ultimately, I think it boils down to the
fact that people's perspective of Gerald Hayes is so extreme
that it drew a line in the sand. Because for
a lot of folks, what you think of Gerald tells
them everything they need to know about you. Either you're
(04:28):
on their side or you're on the other side, with
zero tolerance for anything in between, which brings me to this.
As polarizing as Gerald's actions were that day, shouldn't we
get to know the man at the center of it all?
Because beyond the media snippets and sound bites, what really
drove him to make the extreme choices he did that day?
And how did he have the constitution to follow through
(04:49):
with it? And above all, I guess I want us
all to revisit this remarkable day's events and gather a
more informed decision about what we witnessed. Because if at
woken Sassy is right that this is one of those
events you have to chew sides on, it leaves someone
like me, who was split on how I feel about Gerald,
to have to finally answer one simple question, is he
(05:11):
a hero or is he a villain? Now? I'm not
naive in thinking that most people don't already have a
fully developed opinion on the man, or that my perspective,
as objective as I tried to be, isn't impacted by
forty five years of being white in America. But here's
why I think it's worth taken another look. The opinions
we hold may not be totally informed. There are literally
(05:35):
thousands of hours of audio recordings, phone footage, video surveillance, bodycams, transcripts,
and more of what happened that day. Plus I'm in
the process of interviewing all the pivotal players who had
an impact on what would eventually transpire, and me and
my team are stitching together all these sources into one
timeline with the hope that we can assemble a fully
(05:57):
rendered view of Gerald Hayes, the harpenter, the single father,
the ex convict, the man. Because if we really want
to understand what went on that day, we have to
get inside Gerald's head. And in order to do this right,
the first thing we have to do is go back
to the beginning, the part you don't know, m h.
(06:40):
We're listening to Gerald Hayes's pre dawned workout routine by
all accounts, Gerald Hayes starts this day like any other,
recording himself as he rotates through an insanely intense assortment
of push ups, crunches, and sit ups. Yeah, where's my
(07:06):
son sleep? You know he will be a hard mess
when you go off to school. I'll be fine, ain't. No,
Gloody said that you ain't gonna be fine and never
had noble. Don't, don't, don't get cute with me, he no.
(07:28):
Now to Mamma Launcher, Niles had been with his dad
three days straight on this new schedule we set up,
but he wasn't returning to my text or my call,
so I pulled up at five three in the morning.
This conversation is from my first interview with Niles is
mother Michelle Hayes, And let me just say for the
record that in my twenty three year career, I've never
(07:50):
met a woman who's experienced real tragedy who's displayed more
grace and strength than she did throughout this process. Michelle
has got a lot of moxie and she's a straight shooter.
So Gerald convinced me to flip our co parent arrangement.
He said he needed to teach now some man skills,
but it's tough when you're about to lose your baby
(08:10):
to adulthood. And then I pretty much go ahead and
agree to give up the last three months between high
school and college so he could spend more time with
his father. So you weren't okay with the arrangement. I mean,
intellectually I was fine with it. But more than that,
a mother knows her child. And as big, smart, artistic
(08:35):
and social as Niles was, you know, he was super naive,
like a lot of boys nowadays, about things like change
and attire or even like start a barbecue fire. So
as much as I wanted to keep Niles close before
he left for school, I knew that Gerald was right.
Plus there was always that thing between both of them
(08:57):
were they always wanted to make up for lost time.
And when you say make up for lost time, you're
referring to Gerald being away at prison. M Yeah, how
was that on Niles rough Kate. Gerald left when Niles
was five, and he was gone, so he was twelve
and a half. So yeah, that wasn't easy for the
(09:20):
first year. So Niles would say things like, you know,
is Daddy coming home today? And I would tell him
Daddy's on a work trip. But finally I had to
just tell him the truth. What made you give in?
Kids are smart kates. I realized he was just giving
me an opportunity to come out of a lie. Anyway,
(09:41):
from there it got better for both of us. Did
you communicate a lot with Gerald all he was in prison?
Oh my god. Yes, Gerald was just on this mission
to be the best freaking father on the planet. I
mean he used to annoy the heck out of me
when he was away, sending all kinds of letters with
magazine articles, book suggestions. So basically he was telling me
(10:06):
how to be a mother from where he was And
at first I took offense to it and would be like, look,
it is too hard being a single parent raising a child,
and you just adding extra work. And finally he said, Michelle,
you're not You're not alone. We're doing this together. I'm
doing everything I can. So he really he stayed in
(10:28):
it a hundred percent. And then when he came home,
you know, he was still just on that mission to
be the best father to his son that he could be.
But Gerald doesn't really do moderation, so you know, he
had to be a role model times, a hundred times
a thousand. So basically we he had done such a
(10:51):
good job with novels over the years. I kind of
wanted to, you know, reward him, reward both of them
with m hm. Now when your mother rings, yourself, hither back. Sorry,
(11:13):
I don't want any forced apologies. Why don't you go
show what you've been working on. You're supposed to be
a surprise, show me what. Just go get it. It
looks great now. We're making this jewelry box for you.
I just don't need to varnish it and put lining
on the inside. You made this for me. Oh this
(11:37):
is mom. Don't cry. You want to say it the
jewelry box? Yes? Please? And Niles did this by hand yep.
(11:58):
Oh wow mm A detail in the carving is amazing.
I know that was nice. Amazing m hmm. Don't go Gerald,
you're not gonna say grace on m Father, God, we
(12:25):
thank you for this meal. We thank you for our health,
and we thank you for our sin. We ask that
you protect and look over him as he carries on
in his journey to college. Father, we ask that you
continue to shine your light on Gerald so that he
may remain steadfast in your light, never to return to
the dark days. Amen. Amen, Amen. The video recorders stopped rolling.
(12:52):
Seconds later. I asked Michelle if she recalled anything else
that stood out from that morning, anything that I should know.
Here's what she said. We didn't need like that much
hardly ever, but I'm super glad that we got to
have that moment together as a family. After breakfast, Gerald
(13:18):
left the kitchen to take a shower and get ready
for work. And when I said goodbye to Niles, I
remember hugging him and kissing his cheeks like I used
to when he was little, and he didn't stop me.
That was nice. And was that the last time you
(13:39):
were with Nils alive? Yeah? Yeah, h. Shortly after Michelle
(14:01):
left the apartment, the next person to see Gerald and
Niles that morning was a lively character who goes by
the name Big h. His government name is Alvin Cox,
but nobody dares call him that. Why did they call
you big Age? Back when uh I got put on
the set, Age was my big home. So all of
(14:23):
the old g's at that time started calling me little Age.
So how did you go from little age to big Age?
I put in that work, motherfucker's started hearing about me.
Next thing, you know, I went from little age to
big age. Sign of respect. He's not lying about that either.
You can tell by the way people's body language would
have changes when they're in the presence of big Age
(14:43):
that he is very well respected or feared. So you
saw Niles and Gerald the morning of day that ship
went down. Yeah, I sink both of them. They came
out right there over there by the light blue apartment complex.
Yeah yeah, see that pathway that cuts between those two
(15:04):
big patches of brown down grass. Gerald always parked his
old beat up assholes will Bill right there by the street.
That was his spot. And I was posted up in
my ride directly across the street, and he gave me
like a little what up? Not did Gerald say anything
to you at all? I don't think you really like
chopping up with me too much. I've been knowing Gerald forever,
(15:24):
like before he was reformed this ship. You know, we
came up together. I don't think he liked someone like
me seeing the way he was. And how was that
like normal? Because he knows I know he ain't normal.
He was just Clark Kentny Wait, what what's Clark Kenning
(15:45):
that like? Around here where we come from. When someone
holds it down for the set, people respect that. Like
you know about how he got that limp? No, well
that's I think a big part of oh Gerald is
the MP. Yeah, all that, the lamp, the attack at
Solid Dad really just this time at prison in general,
(16:09):
this institution has always had a bit of a reputation,
unfortunately for being a pretty violent place. That's William Powell.
He's a CEO a correctional training facility more commonly known
as Solidad State Prison in California. Gerald did his bid
during time back when black and brown relations were really bad.
They're always really bad, but they were worse than really
(16:32):
bad when he was here. Can you tell me about
the time when he was attacked? Which attack must have
happened at least a dozen times? Gerald is what we
call a triple OSI. You know, when you've got power,
especially on the answer, people are going to test you. Um,
(16:54):
big age. I've heard of an o G, But what's
a triple o G. That's another way of saying that
her end things in here. Man. To his credit, he
did a pretty good job. Too strange to hear you say,
it's so casually say what uh? I don't know. It
just seems sort of counterintuitive that a CEO would admit
to the fact that an inmate ran things. I agree,
(17:15):
it is. It's it's counterintuitive. It's also a reality in prison.
A social hierarchy's going to develop among inmates and even
the guards too. It's just human nature, you know. He
he probably could have been a grand chess master or
or have worked for the Rand Corporation or something like that.
(17:35):
Very much a strategic thinker, but you know, it's also
very violent. Short fuse you look, I'm not a psychologist,
but there's probably some personality disorder there was he ever
diagnosed in therapy. His sentence was as diagnosis. No, No,
we don't. We don't have resources like that. And why
(17:57):
is that funding? People don't give a ship And you know,
personality disorders are almost the keyest survival here. If you
don't have one, you might be better off developed with one.
Like I said, prison is a violent place. Yeah, so okay,
back to that. There's a story I've heard about Latino
gang members attacking Gerald. Oh you want to know about that.
(18:21):
What you have to understand, Kate, if that is the
numbers game in prison, that's why for the most part,
White boys stick together, Mexicans and Central America stick together,
and Nigga's stick together. Well, not all the time, but
when it's go time is to give best interest to
know what side you want. Gerald was barn none the
(18:42):
most effective leader I've seen, making bloods and crips, squats
whatever beasts. They had a lot of people around here
didn't like that, so it was put on it. Can
you describe the incident for me? Gerald is being transferred
from this shoe special How's unit to d blocker, So
(19:03):
it was basically a lame duck duck. Lame duck is
one of prisoners alone and easy to pray on, no protection.
Here's the play. Three essays in the line. It makes
being moved in one direction and gee and some random masks.
Nobody's coming out to home. It's going an opposite way.
But Gerald, he's smart as fun, so we already didn't
(19:23):
pet game, and he could tell some ship was about
to go down. All right here Kate as the first
sound pulls out of his ship and steps up to attack,
Gerald just pops him in the face and disarms all right.
As Gerald takes to share from dude in the front,
the other two essays squeezed down on Jee and starts
shaky from behind, like bang bang. So what Gerald is
(19:46):
getting hit? He staffed through in the front, kind of
swoops his body around and use him as a shield
from the dudes hit him in the back. And now
they got stopped because they don't want to hit down home.
That was their big mistake. Adn't run away. The best
thing you can do is make the person attacking you
hesitate the levels of playing field. It's like that was
(20:07):
all he needed to regroup sheet he went from prey
to predator. So what happened to the guys who attacked him?
One dig the other two were seriously injured. But it's
not like Gerald made it out unscathed. He got worked
over pretty bad in the incident. And I believe he
left and paralyzed and half the one leg and he
(20:27):
lost the kidney. And so wait, I'm a bit confused,
Like I know the other inmates started the fight, But
did Gerald get into legal trouble at all? Check this?
She represented himself and beat all charges, case dismissed, and
that that's just some ghetto superhero legendary ship. I mean,
(20:48):
it was self defense. And when he gets attacked like that,
anyone deserves to be able to protect themselves. What's crazy
is most dudes would have resume. Jeez, they come back
to the streets and you know, use that reputation to
you know, make a little money, handle things, run ship.
(21:09):
But it's almost like he said, Okay, I paid enough
dudes for me and my son, and now I'm out
the game. So it was just like, no, Gerald was untouchable.
That's a given, but so was Nowls. How do you
mean like nobody was gonna pressure now Is to claim
and set of join the game, because then you knew
what that meant. I'll have to deal with that dude
(21:31):
Gerald exactly, and no one wanted to see Gerald have
to come out of retirement and getting that ass. So
what was Nails like? Different? Like rock star different though,
but you know we don't really do rock stars in
the hood. Do you feel me? Can you give me
an example of how Niles stood out? M let me see,
(21:53):
Nowles might come out that front door wearing a full
length pink overcoat and matching headscarf, some e centric type ship.
The nigga was just other. But all of the young
homies really looked up to him, And was that because
of Gerald's reputation. No, no, no, Niles was just special.
He was his own man. And if you really want
(22:14):
to know, I think they saw something in him that
they wished they could be, but that they knew they
could never be. They knew he was going places like
far from the matter of fact, anybody ever tell you
about that Gucci A No, what's up? Yeah, the Guccia.
I'll still be using that ship to this day. This
is Tray Mac talking. He and Niles were best friends
(22:37):
going back to second grade. From all accounts, whether it's
Michelle or Big Age, these two were almost inseparable. Me
and some of the other homies from around the way
started getting papered up off a hustle or whatever, you know,
doing what we do and with that extra cash, we
were going shopping. Right. Wait, when you say hustling, does
that include Niles. Niles was a hustle for show, but
(22:58):
he didn't get down like we did it. How do
you mean like Niles would never do anything that would
get him in trouble. He was never gonna break the
law because you know it's possible beyond him. His mom's
too Gucci. Yeah, so me and some of the other
friends are making a little money, and we started buying
our Kasa fly ship, a lot of Louis Findy and
(23:19):
a gang of Gucci. But Niles was like, no, you're
wasting all your money. And at first we would be
like get out here with that ship there. One day
he got fed up and was like, I I'm gonna
show you. After that, nobody saw this dude for like
a weekend. Then he pops up on the Monday, like, hey,
put this thing on program on your phone. Put what
(23:40):
on my phone? The Gucci app, but it's spelled g
O O C H I. Okay, So how does it work?
The idea is simple, right, It pulls prices for expensive
stuff you want to buy, like let's just say a
thousand dollar jacket, and then it maps out how much
that thing would be worth been five years or ten
(24:01):
years even, and then I will show you that that
same jacket down the line. They work ship. But it
also shows you how much money you would have if
you put that g you spent on clothes and let's
just say a bond or some other investment stocks, money
market accounts, commodities of man. You see, your money could
have grown and it's like, oh, ship, the nigga needs
to be fiscally responsible. You feel me, Chin up, nose down,
(24:25):
Rise together? Wait, what's that was like noles thing? You know,
a little trademark you used to say, chin up. It's like,
you know, self respect, now respect for others, Like, don't
look down on nobody. Rise together, we all eat, we
all win. Jeez. From the time Big Age sees Gerald
(24:51):
and Niles getting the car and right off, it's about
a forty minute drive from their apartment to Gerald's work
in an area of Los Angeles known as the Valley,
Jason forty two Sports Bar and Grill was assumed to
be open to the public restaurant where Gerald was working construction,
and thanks to a decision made by the bar's owner,
Jay Shaw, we have a boon of recordings of Gerald
(25:11):
and just about everyone else who entered the establishment that day. Jas,
a former professional football player, was obsessed with security. Because
of this, Every inch of the building was surveiled in
four K video and audio, and there's construction paper and
newspaper taped to the inside of the windows, obstructing anyone
street side from looking into the building while it's being renovated.
(25:40):
Love the door behind you. As Gerald turns on the lights,
we get a good look at the bar's interior. The
best way I can describe the place is that it
has a Parisian dining hall look mixed with the modern
cool hip vibe, maybe even more inviting with the sports
themed paraphernalia mostly featuring you guessed it highlights of Jayce
Shaw collegiate and professional football playing career. Hey day say
(26:04):
Geezy Quick? Playing around man. For the larger part of
the morning and early afternoon, Gerald and Niles work together
in a way that's best described as harmonic. They both
don construction coveralls and goggles, and at a glance, it
can be difficult to distinguish who is who in the
surveillance video, but an obvious teller is Gerald's awkward gait
(26:26):
when he limps from one end of the dining room
to another. Hey who that there's me? This is Jay Shaw.
Compared to the frame photographs that almost deified Jay's past
prowess and athleticism, where we see chiseled muscles and clear
eyed focus, the man we see now looks compromised by
(26:46):
time and myriad tools that nature uses to wear down
the youth Hubrists and anatomy. As Jay's crosses from the
entrance over to the main bar, he pops five aspirant
and washes it down with a cocktail of pepto bismol
coffee and a splashy pour of whiskey. Are you guys
ready to order? Let me get a club soda with
(27:08):
two lime weathers in the California on the police, Jay's
greed to an interview as long as we did it
at his favorite breakfast spot in Venice Beach, which is
walking distance to the sober living house that he's been
staying in for the last two months. What do you
remember most about the earlier part of that day? Were
you in a good mood or a bad mood? Or
(27:29):
I remember drinking a lot? Uh? Let me see, I
was hundreds of thousand dollars in debt, I was going
through a divorce and I need to get the ball
open a staff so that I had a money coming in.
That was my mood, okay. So speaking of money, I
think I caught something unsurveillance, a dispute between you and
Gerald about past to payment. I wouldn't call it a
(27:50):
dispute so much as we had a conversation. But do
you remember what was said? It's true. Yeah, he had
been putting into was working our DeLint. So did he
threaten you? What now? Like that between us? I wanted
to square things up with him because I owed them
big time. Honestly, I didn't know when I would be
(28:13):
able to because my money was so funny. Then he
gave me a slight out when he brought up the game.
Listen to this exchange. I haven't mentioned the tickets to
now's either. If ticket to nice basketball game? You said
you had to hook up? Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
my bad, my bad. Yeah yeah, we're all good man.
I just forgot to pick him up. Hey can I try? Hey? No, yo?
(28:39):
What's up now? They? Oh? Boy, look at you get
big and ship. Hey look it. I need you to
make a run to my attorney's office and pick up
some tickets for us. I'm taking you and your pops
to the basketball game. What now? Yeah? I know, he
take my car. You're going to Beverly Hills. Boy, you
might as well right and stop for real school. As
(29:04):
Niles exits the bar to go on the errand, he
posts a few selfies of himself in front of Jason's car,
which was a Matt Pearl seven series BMW with fancy
rims in an aerodynamic looking spoiler. You could imagine how
an eighteen year old kid would be excited to drive
this car. So you mentioned before that you were caught
(29:26):
off guard when Gerald brought up going to the game.
How did you get the tickets so fast? I still
here to connects. I had quite burnt all my bridges here.
I got the call maybe five minutes before now showed up.
This is Melissa Hutchinson. She works for the sports and
entertainment law firm where Niles picked up the tickets. When
(29:48):
you're working on the reception desk, the job is essentially
three things. One maintain a level of alertness to be
super welcoming and three make sure guests have valid dation
before they leave. And and do you remember anything in particular?
My boss at the time was a little miffed that
he had to give up seats for the game. Technically
(30:09):
they were for clients, but if no one claimed them,
he usually got to take his family. And what was
Niles like. I never told anybody this, but I totally
forgot to give him his parking validation. Usually dotted my
eyes and crossed my teas with that sort of thing.
But he sort of knocked me off my game. How's that?
(30:30):
He was just really friendly and cute, charming. He asked
me if he could follow me on my socials, and
I gave him my info. We got so lost in
conversation I almost forgot to give him the tickets. You
kind of liked him, didn't you. I mean yeah, A
little bit after he left, I followed him back and
(30:51):
you know, started looking through his feed. Then he added
me in his last video, and wow, you know what
happened after that? Melissa's referring, of course, to the ill
fated encounter with the police where Niles gets pulled over.
But one more critical thing happened that we have to
cover as part of the mesh up events. Because while
(31:11):
Niles was leaving Beverly Hills with the tickets, back at
the bar, Jason was giving his former sports agent Martin
Simms a tour of his restaurant. It wasn't just a
tool for ships, he gave his Kate. My plan was
to hit man Nu for some caves. I put the
all man but it's on him, hoping that I could
open up those deepotsies. Jason was an absolute mess that day,
(31:33):
but then again to me always was really that's Martin
Simms talking. The best way I can describe him is
risk averse. Jay smelled like booze and wouldn't stop going
on and on about some ridiculously overpriced door knobs he
just got. I asked Jason about the door knobs as well.
Do I remember, Kate? Those things were antique European rustick
(32:00):
brons them ships was too random, peace, Martin elaborates. Then
he tells me to put my hands on them to
get the feeling. And I don't know. I mean, they
felt like door knobs, Kate, complete waste of money. Okay,
ka ka, let me tell you. Ex person said, I
(32:21):
like to impress my potential investors. Yeah, make him feel
like they was having an experience. Even better, paint the
picture for Jason's a salesman, and I'll give him that
NonStop talking. He's going on and on and on, But
that in area is right through that. Then it converts
into a club. After ten pm. We'll be drawn a
(32:42):
thousand customers a night. Easy. But then he takes me
into his office where he has this Florida ceiling glass
case vault with an arsenal of guns. Yeah. My I
didn't like my toys. So I was straight up with him.
I'm like, Jason, I can't invest in this. Either you're
(33:04):
going to get arrested because of this this armory, or
someone's gonna get hurt. And you know, I even asked him,
I said, what do you need this for anyway? And
what did he say? He said he needed it for protection.
And I'm still from the hood. So look, by this point,
I was just ready to leave, and I should have,
but Jason does what he does. He starts pressing me,
(33:27):
ropes me back in. He says, hey, I gotta takes
to the game, blah blah blah and all this, that
and the other. So in order to get a second
away from him leaning on me to come in on
this bar, I said, look, I need to take some
pigs and videos of the place. You know, do my
due diligence. Now, mind you, I had already made my decision.
(33:47):
There was no way in hell I'm investing. But I
know him. We go way back, and I don't want
to be rupe. Don't remember what time he started taking
photos of the place. Yeah, it must have been around.
According to the time stamp on Niles of social media feed,
he went live for the last time at three o
nine pm while stopped at a red light on his
(34:08):
way back to Jason's forty two. Framed in the shot,
we see the steering wheels BMW logo and he's proudly
fanning the four basketball game tickets. Listen, Yeah, shout out
to j Shaw. I am Melissa H for the tickets
to the game. Damn got the cop that's gonna join me.
(34:37):
As Niles adjust his phone, the video post ends. Did
he mean to stop it? Or was it an accident?
Every time I watch it, I wonder did he have
any idea that the video he just cut short would
be at last? Could he sense that he was about
to have a contentious exchange with the police? Did he
(34:57):
know that they would have a hand in his death.
Despite all the recordings and testimonies that I've gathered, those
few precious seconds between the end of his post and
the cops approaching his car will forever belonged to Niles
and the unknown. Coming up on the next episode of
(35:17):
Hashtag Matter, Hands up on the Dash? You want to
put my hands up on the dash? Now all right,
all right, all right, back, stop that you're like a criminal. Comply,
but how am I acting like a crimson? And final
warning stop outside of the vehicle. We will recount what
we do know about the police, though that goes so
terribly wrong. Hashtag Matter starring Aman Joseph as Gerald Hayes,
(35:47):
Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason Shaw Hayley,
Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Sims,
and Snoop Dogg as Big h s Now. Performances by
Nile Bullock as Niles Hayes, Serena Pouncy as Michelle Hayes,
Alfonso Faustino as Sergeant Hobbs, John Lacy as Commander Emmonds,
(36:10):
Alex Kihano as Captain Flores, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson,
and Stephen Robert Wallenberg as Detective Halmer. With appearances by
Mercy Malick, Ryan Smith, Amir Tali, Alex Vaughan, Colin Ward,
and Orval Williams. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by
(36:31):
Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman,
Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp and Aimon Joseph Audio designed by
Wolf at the Door. Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon,
music by Jonathan Sandford, Edited by Naron Oling and our
(36:52):
sound director in Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and
Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a
production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart
Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. For
more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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