April 13, 2022 • 32 mins
After multiple failed negotiation attempts, Detective Patterson tries his luck with Gerald. Meanwhile a reporter discovers Michelle Hayes at the protest and takes her to the police where she finally learns of the online trial. The media weighs in on Gerald, the trial and Jayce’s public image.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains
culturally insensitive language and violence. We won't do, we won't.
We won't go. We won't, we won't go party meeting? Alright?
(00:39):
What brought you out tonight? Sir? We're gonna keep taking
a ship. You play our buoy just a two minutes ago?
Can you share with us? Wasn't an aboot or a seample? Oh?
You're no tapoo jilty jumpy? Hello, it's a Detective Patterson.
(01:00):
I am. You're a negotiator. You think you can do
better than the last guy. You're listening to a recording
of the fourth throw line call between Gerald and the police.
(01:21):
This is the first call where Detective Curtis Patterson is
leading negotiator after taking over for Detective Homer. Look, man,
I thought if we had a chance to talk sooner,
maybe we wouldn't still be in this mess. You know,
others agreed. So what you think about what those cops
did to my boy? Man? No disrespect, but I've been
(01:43):
too busy thinking about how to move this situation into
a better place. Gerald? You still here? Yeah? Man? Is
it cool that I call you? Gerald? Can call me
ge all right. Gee, you can call me Detective Pattison,
or you can call me Curtis if you like. Yeah,
(02:07):
did you watch the link? Detective? Yeah? Man, I did.
You got kids? Yeah? I have four? What would you
have done if you was in my shoes? Detective? You're there, Yeah,
I'm here. What would you do if you saw some
(02:28):
grown men killing one of your children, knowing that you've
got the ability to do something about it? I mean,
I would do what I have to do in that moment.
But man, that's not what we are anymore. And it
just seems like you're making things harder on yourself and
(02:51):
a bunch of other folks as well. You know, it
don't get any harder than losing a child. Do you
agree with that? Yes? I do with an ugh pre
Detective that you never have to carry that load you're praying, Man, Gee,
(03:13):
from toime to tom Yeah, how about you? I mean,
it's spent a while, but I like to believe it
there's someone on the other side answer if I really
need to make a call. You know, yeah, they're gonna
ask you. Something ain't stopped you yet? What about Jason Martin?
(03:38):
I mean, are they willing to take this thing all
the way to the end. Are they just a couple
of guys that got caught up in the bad situation?
Of course they caught up. You caught up to We
all caught up because we're black in America. Man, I know,
nobody want to hear me complain how we treat it
(03:59):
out here, because already know how people look at us.
They think that the Irish came over they started from
the bottom, made it work. The Jews came over here,
they started from the bottom, they made it work. The
Armenians they fledging aside, came to America and look at
them now and driving. So they think it, what's wrong
(04:20):
with black people? What's wrong with my people? I can't
figure this ship out. So you know what, from the
time that Niles was a little boy, I told him
myself that you're gonna think different, gonna work hard, you're
(04:45):
gonna work smart, You're gonna have a plan, and things
are gonna pan out for you. I guess what I mean.
Nile's upheld his end of that bargain, every bit of it.
He was a good kid man, good kid on his
(05:06):
way to Ivy League school and after that the Scots
the limit. But you know, what man, This motherfucking America.
This motherfucker is a monster. This country, it consumes black people, man,
(05:29):
and they expect us to just sit back and just
take this ship. Nah nah man, oh, jay, I hear you, man,
I do. However, you know we can't let you kill
a man live on the internet. So you're saying, forget
(05:53):
the driveling, I should just kill him now? No, man,
did I think you know? That's not what I'm saying?
Come on, come on, And I really don't think that's
what you want either. You've got all the answers right now. Brother,
I don't. I don't, No, I don't try to back
the funk out of it now, Detective, let's hear it. Okay, okay,
I I think you want to do right by your son.
(06:15):
But the only way that happens is if you surrender, man,
and let the fucking murdering pig walk right. And that's
exactly what would happen if I don't follow through. See,
at least this way, real justice has a chance. Should
I mean, every time one of us get killed, you
know what they say we need to have a conversation
(06:36):
about race. What the funk is we supposed to talk
about right. Everyone knows what it is. It's the same
ship America's been doing since day one, since before day one.
There's always a law or a fucking loophole that allows
us to get treated any old motherfucking way out here
because motherfucker's keep moving to goddamn gold post on us.
(07:00):
So now it's got to be different. You hear me,
I'm moving the Golden's tongue. Come on, man, come on,
there's no one on this call who is naive. Stop it.
We know the system is not perfect. We've both been
(07:21):
in it for a long time. Different size maybe, But
listen to me. I see what you see I do,
and man, I have to live with that. I have
to live with it too. But check it. I also
see that you made your point. Brother, Trust me, America
hears you loud and clear. And the talking back, Man,
(07:43):
that's got to be worth something. This ain't about talk
a little more. And what was that? I don't know.
He just geez. Terror isn't going the line is an
open detective, Gee, come on, man, talk to me, Gee,
talk to me. Listen to this exchange from the kitchen
surveillance feed. I don't sit them up, keep them away
(08:12):
your police man. He need a doctor and some blood
to you. Probably need to get one in here while
we wait. Gerald requested the doctor for sergeant Place at
eight fifty two PM, a little over an hour and
a half after the online trial had begun, and in
that time span, his post had garnered one million, nine
hundred eight thousand, one hundred twenty three up votes for
(08:32):
innocent and two million, two hundred thirty two thousand, five
hundred thirty five down votes for guilty. And while millions
of people were having their say online and on the
news and in the streets about what transpired with Niles
and the police, Michelle Hayes, Nile's mother, was, by all accounts,
still playing catch up. Listen to my conversation with news
(08:55):
reporter Colleen Sanders about this. So Helen, after you pulled
Michelle from the crowd of protesters and you you cut
the live interview short, did you guys continue to talk
off camera? Did you ever answer her questions about Niles
or get a sense of what she knew? And when?
I never really got the chance. Within seconds of me
calling cut, hordes of reporters moved in and they were
(09:18):
all over her. So I just grabbed her by the
hand and told her to follow me. What did you
take her? I took her to the police, to that
inner parameter where all the shot callers were, and I
explained who Michelle was and they led her through. But
(09:38):
then I was given a stern reminder that I wasn't
welcome in the police's restricted area and told that I
needed to leave, and on my way back to where
my team was still posted up, I hid behind an
outhouse and bawled my eyes out for fifteen minutes, and
then I redid my makeup and I went back to
(10:03):
After Colleen changed her son Stiper, we continued where we
left off. So I know I touched on this before,
But if I'm being totally honest with myself, had I
not been three months pregnant at the time, I probably
never would have cut the interview with Michelle short. So
(10:23):
what did it be? Im pregnant too? I think it
made me aware that I had that I had a
moral obligation to look after Michelle in in the little
way that I could. And the ironic thing about it is,
(10:44):
I'm not sure what's more cruel pulling her emotions out
on live TV for the sake of ratings or or
putting her in the care of the same police force
that had just I don't want to say it. The
reality is the police could tell her more about what
had happened than I could, and as far as what
(11:07):
she knew and when she knew it up to that point,
that's something you're going to have to ask. Michelle. Wait,
so which part did you say you were confused with? Well,
Colleen Sanders mentioned that when she pulled you out of
the crowd, you seem like you kind of knew what
was going on, but that you also seemed like you
were looking to verify if what you had heard was
(11:27):
in fact true. So I guess I'm just trying to
understand what changed from the time you got out of
your car, when you didn't know much at all, to
you linking up with Colleen. While I was walking, I
started noticing small groups of people with signs, you know,
and some of them were channing the types of things
(11:48):
you hear at a protest, but it was still, you know,
it wasn't like a mob the way it would be
when I eventually got near Jas's forty two. And did
you know that the sporadic protester as you were running
into were connected to Niles. I don't know exactly how
to answer that. I think part of me was in
denial for a bit, almost like as long as I
(12:09):
don't hear anyone saying that they were there for Niles,
I could keep my hopes up that everything was still okay.
But deep down and I think I already knew, and
when we're you no longer able to deny it. I
heard a group of kids channing across the street say
(12:30):
his name, now, it's Haze. So I basically started following them,
and within minutes we had all fallen into that mad
way of protests that I talked about as it was
heading towards Jason's forty two. But it just felt like
everyone else was moving along a lot faster than I
could get my body to move, and it was loud
(12:53):
and confusing. Finally, I just remember yet getting this man
that I didn't know from Adam put in him by
his shirt, like really hard, and I said, I now
as his mother, can you help me? That's when he
started calling out to people, telling them who I was,
and then of course calling phone. So when Colleen pulled
(13:13):
you through the crowd, you really hadn't talked to anybody
about Nile Chet. You know, did you know about Gerald's trial?
Not yet. I didn't know about that until Colleen took
me over to the police. Now what was that like?
I don't think they knew what to do with me.
So they put me under this pop up tent that
looked like a makeshift break room. I can still smell
(13:36):
the scent of stale coffee from that night. Anyway, I
was told someone from the department would come talk to me.
While I waited, I was able to charge my phone,
and that's when I learned about Gerald's post and everything else.
(14:00):
Gerald came at doctor was out of the same way
he came at everyone else walked into the bar that night.
How's that by putting the gun in his face? Listen
to this exchange for launch? Where were you at earlier?
What do you never mind? Get on the floor, Get
on the floor. So then Gerald makes doctor Rozoti life
(14:22):
face down on the ground. I was wearing his white
lab coat, not now, Kate, I say that to say this.
That floor was filthy, like he was doing construction and
then everything and so I mean me, President, I thought
it was unnecessary, But that's him he was he was
power tripping who Gerald? Oh so you felt like Gerald
(14:45):
was getting off on the control a thousand percent interesting? Yeah.
So anyways, Gerald started shuffling through the doctor's bag like
looking for weapons or whatever, and then he says to him,
you ain't got no blood in here lactated. What will
it work? I don't know? And I see the patient.
(15:08):
What I admired about doctor Zatti's that he was able
to do two things very quickly. One he never let
Gerald get him rattled. And two it was like he
was looking at the situation in the bar from I
don't know, like a thirty thousand foot view, like when
Gerald post doctor Zaidi in his side with his gun
and directs him to go into the kitchen. As soon
(15:31):
as you walked through, they swing their doors like started
places like right there in front of them, like kind
of sort of propped up on the wall. And then
of course there's Nile's body. It's lying on the table
about ten tell feet away from them in the kitchen.
Doctor Rosatti walk straight past sergeant Place and goes directly
over to Niles and checks his pulse. I'm so glad
(15:53):
you brought that up. I always just assumed that Gerald
constructed doctor Zatti to do that. No, you know, the
doctor did that on his own. And what was the
significance of that. I think it was a gesture. Uh h.
It seemed like it just starmed Gerald a bit. I mean,
(16:13):
not physically, but emotionally maybe, like in a sense I
guess when doctors at he did that. It's like he
claimed the moral high ground. So are you saying that
he checked on Niles. That's a way of saying, as
a way of saying that I see what happened here
and I see your son. Yeah, I think that. I
(16:35):
think that had an impact on Gerald, made him relax
a bit. Cool. Let's just see I need some things
out of my bag. Yeah, hello, my name is dr Izzadi.
Can you tell me your name? Yeah? Yeah, what is it?
(16:58):
I'm gonna take care of you to place, Gonna do
him all right a bit better. How long have you
been bleeding like this? I don't I don't know about
what time did you get shot up? Okay, we're gonna
elevate this leg and get a turn to get on it.
(17:20):
Big up. It needs you to lead into sergeant, place
his chest and don't let him move and you come
over here. I want you to sit on this google
but this right, Sergeant Place, take a deep breath for me. Okay,
there trying out. I don't want to hurt there. We go.
(17:44):
Don't take good. It should be yeah, I got it
from here. I gonna be okay, fluids and you should
start feeling a lot better. But dr has already worked
on Sergeant Place the kitchen. Gerald can be seen pacing
compulsively back and forth in the main bar area, but
(18:05):
unbeknownst to him or anyone else inside the building, the
next few minutes would determine Gerald's fate. Listen to this
communication between Captain Flores and his lead sniper, Captain Floridas
Bursiness one, do you me me that birdness one? Good?
Nine persons one and on nine over Flores on nine,
(18:25):
what do you see? H T one is camped out
in the window. I could save the city a whole
lot over time if you just give me a green light.
Plan shot negative. But I recommend to kill shot Captain.
I got this stand by Bersiness one, checking with command
copy night standing mine well. Captain Flores ran a sniper's
request for a kill shot up the chain of command
(18:47):
inside the restaurant, Jason, Martin, and Gerald share a rare
moment where, just like everyone else, they followed the story
on TV. I want to thank my pail again for
coming in on such short notice. My first question is
for you, since you comforted some of Jay Shaw's past
run ins with the law, does this fit his emo?
You know, Jason was the type of athlete who for
(19:08):
a while there couldn't go into a nightclub and not
get into a fight, let alone inside a brawl with
twenty people. Some years later, he's involved in a shootout
between police and is now holding one of those officers hostage.
But in fairness, this is definitely the most extreme behavior
we've seen from him. To nothing about this is in fairness, Ryan,
(19:29):
Can I just say this is completely indicerent. My black
men in America can't get a fair shake of justice
in this country. I haven't seen any evidence that Jas
was involved in a shootout now, based on that video
that we all just watched together, the only shot you
fairly didn't work by a cop with poor markmanship. By
my head, and you know what, your guest is already
(19:51):
over here calling Jay's a murderer and a kidnap. What
we've seen absolutely whatever calling a murderer or a kidnapper
or I'm just at the fact that he's I didn't
he's a magnet for troub Paralda's character that he's associated with.
It's a prime example of that. And let me just
be clear about one other thing, because I think people
at home need to hear this. Anyone who votes for
(20:13):
Sergeant Place to be executed is at the very least
in accessory to your kid. It's the truth. Furthermore, vigilanti justice.
You might support it, but it has no place in
our society because it's illegal, inadcurate, and a reckless at best.
And anyone who can do it's killing a cop like
this is un American, is committing across and the prosecuted,
(20:36):
and that includes your other. It's like I said, be
talking about both of you were personal attacks on each other.
I really can't tell. Go ahead and respond, of course,
I'm against vigilanti justice. No, you're not ever speaking speak
continued continue eidemic can harmy black people getting mistreat it,
(21:00):
beaten or shot ah by the police. Are you on
my honest opinion? Uh? Yeah, You've been the most honest
with me, so far, so keep going. James got off
on the attention. And why do you think that he's
having his name mentioned on national TV again? Seeing his
name scroll at the bottom of the screen. You know,
(21:23):
he loved that, and that's the drug he'd been missing,
the fame like seeing him light up the way that
he did, that's his weakness. Okay, and I knew right
then and there I can take advantage. How is that? Well,
the first couple of times I tried to draw a
wedge between Jason Gerald, I came at Jay straight on
(21:46):
and essentially just challenges manhood. But you know, I should
have known that wouldn't work. You see, Jason a type
of personality like mostly lead athletes. If I was going
to get through to him, I needed to come at
him sideways first, with flattery. So he goes into the
dining room by himself, channel surfing, probably checking to see
(22:10):
what other networks were talking about him. But that's when
I did my thing, and I crept away and I
grabbed two glasses and up bottle whiskey. Cheers. Je. Do
you know the first time I ever saw you played
(22:33):
what was like like a saltare college me. No, that
was the first time I met. But the first time
I saw you played was you junior in high school.
It was a Southern Sexual championship. Hey, we gotta kill
that game? Yea. Yeah, yeah, but you had thirty five
(22:53):
tackles in eight sex. God damn Yeah. I said to myself,
I said, this kid, Ray, he's going, He's going all
the way. He's the best I've ever seen. I mean,
God gave you everything man, size, athleticism, speed, quickness. Yo.
(23:14):
I had halfback then too. Yeah. I think you blocked
field goal that game. Yeah yeah, and that win no
bullshit as long snopper kicker either. They both ended up
going d one. Hey, sure, did I remember? You know
what my scaluting report. I had the longest list of
positives for you that I had for any other player
and that I've ever scalted. But it was just just
(23:34):
one negative. All right? But I mean, don't sue we Okay,
what's really need was more of a question. Okay, what
was that canny escape the hood? Yeah? I wrote that
down and twenty five years later, James here we are.
Keep listening to Jase, gotta listen to me. You and
(23:57):
I are supposed to be in this mess, like this
is my fight like you have so much going for you,
like the people love you. Man, you got the tol
package could looks, charisma and and and this rest of
one thing that you're trying to do. I really believe
it's gonna happen, Like I'm top seeing a chain of
them ships the chase and order for that to happened, Man,
(24:23):
we ever got to get out of here first, do
you do you hear me? And I'm willing to bet you.
I'm willing to bet you that if you want to
pick up that phone right now, and if you were saying, hey, listen,
this is Jay Shaw and I want one of the
situation got at least we'd be on record as not
(24:44):
being part of the kidnapping. I mean, no, no body
where I see it. There's no way any part of it.
Like you said, I'm the one who dragged the copy
in here. Yes I know, but like they this is
some over the panic and you were cold serve for
a safety. But now, man, I can't do that that
and that again he deserves better than that one, Jason.
(25:04):
I mean, you gotta help me understand something that, for
the life of me, I just cannot figure out in
all my years of representing players that came from nothing
and ended up going to the league, they always had
someone they owned and and in ten of times out
of ten that was just some bullshit mind fun that
people who didn't have ship put on somebody they knew
was gonna make it, and the one that didn't break free, man,
(25:29):
they ended up right back where they started or worse. So, Chase,
what I'm saying is, you don't know anybody anything, and
nobody owes you, but I don't they expect you to
understand this ship because you just from will we hey
like almost second? Backup, back up? What did you mean
about when you said again you said you can't do
(25:52):
that to cheat again? What happened first time? What I'm
about to tell you, I ain't told me right, So
the stage between us what I'm saying, of course, not
fucking word. Not worried man. When me and Gerald was
(26:19):
kids sixteen and seventeen, right around the Hounds age, I
was out there. If you thought I was a beast
on the field, and you should have seen being in
the streets though fighting the other of drugs. I ain't
had no pause button at all. So that little thing
that you wrote about me and your little Scott report.
Can I escape to the little brother Beal? Question was
cut to the whold escaped me? Anyway? I pressured you know,
(26:42):
Gerald to do this smashing Red Roby with me and Andy.
Wait a minute, when I say pressure, it's not like
she was a quiet or nothing like that. He just
thought that the ship was a bit risky. But I
convinced him. So anybody, look, we do a damn thing
and came up with about ten thousand dollars went the
merchandise through its go back cop jam. You ever said
he need to talk, but I refused to say anything
(27:04):
today until I had my lawyer on the Dame years.
I ain't got no lawyer, right, But I did have
a football coach who really wanted me to go to
his album about it for college. See, they promised him
a job as defensive head coach if he could bring
me go to the tickets. So I was his dad.
(27:27):
So anybody my coach since this high power to turney
down to the police station. The guy works his magic,
we make a deal, right, My charges could clear all
I gotta do. It's snitch on the guy who playing
the robbery. But you can't like with the snitch on yourself,
so jarals, Yeah, he sitch on genals. There it was
(27:50):
get my name clear, go to a four year university,
go professionally, mens and dollars. Hey, Gerald, he gets three
years judy, one state as an adult. So learn. When
(28:17):
I say not again, I mean not again, Jesson, I
hear you. I do. But the past is the past,
and the fact of the matter is it's probably better
(28:38):
for general that we take him down as opposed to
the police. What I need to know from you right
now is if there's an opportunity for this to end,
are you with me? As Dr Zati joins Gerald in
(28:58):
the main bar area from kitchen, we see Jason Martin
also enter from the dining room. Is he going to live?
I don't know how much time, brother, how much Look
he's sticks. He has to get to the hospital. That's
what it's about. It's up time. How much time? Four
hours to give or take more than enough time? Okay,
(29:19):
you can go now. Joe crosses from where he was
standing by the window over to the bar. Meanwhile, doctor
Azotti continues to press his point. Look, look, look, look,
if you see any signs of him getting dizzy or
pale or anything like that. You need to call me
back in here. Okay. As Doctor Azotti urges Gerald Jason
Martin to keep a watchful eye over sergeant places condition,
(29:42):
he sort of backs into the same spot in the
window that Gerald had been camping out in just prior.
Now here's why that's important. The police sniper still has
his scope trained on that same spot, only now the
silhouette he's tracking doesn't belong to Gerald, it's Dr Azotti.
When Captain Flora has told me that it was a
(30:02):
kill shot on Gerald, but not a clean shot, I
decided to go to the sniper's position personally Commander Ammon's
recounts and with the para binoculars, I was able to
see with my own two eyes what my sniper was
seeing and what was your assessment. This is our opportunity
to take HT one out and end this thing. Listen
to this radio chatter between Commander Ammon's and the lead
(30:22):
sniper as they communicate with Captain Flores back in the
command trailer. Captain Flores as the Commander Ammonds at Burtness one,
you got me, con commander, and we have confirmed eyes
on target coming in. When we hear target has moved
out of site. That's when Gerald steps away from the
(30:44):
window and crosses to the bar. Now listen to this
exchange when a silhouette reappears just seconds later, but neither
the commander nor the sniper realized that it's no longer Gerald,
but dr as Audi tarted back Commack Kathy for lock
'come person, I want to pay to five you Matter
(31:06):
com Matter Black Commissioner fire next time on hashtag Matter.
(31:27):
Hashtag Matter starring Amen Joseph as Gerald Hayes, Jennifer Christopher
as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason Shaw Hayley, Joel
Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Simms, and
Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional performances by Nile Bullock
(31:48):
is Nile's Hayes, Serena Pouncey as Michelle Hayes, Monte Russell
as Detective Patterson, and Alex Vaughan as Darrel Hanover. Hashtag
Matter was written and directed by Dylan C. Brown. Our
executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp,
(32:10):
and Aimon Joseph. Audio designed by Wolf at the Door,
Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, music by Jonathan Sandford,
edited by Darren Bowling, and our sound director is Alexander Kemp.
Produced by Toby Lawless and Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting.
(32:34):
Hashtag Matter is a production of Shonda land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio and an association with Wolf
at the Door. For more podcasts from shot Land Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains
culturally insensitive language and violence. We won't do, we won't.
We won't go. We won't, we won't go party meeting? Alright?
(00:39):
What brought you out tonight? Sir? We're gonna keep taking
a ship. You play our buoy just a two minutes ago?
Can you share with us? Wasn't an aboot or a seample? Oh?
You're no tapoo jilty jumpy? Hello, it's a Detective Patterson.
(01:00):
I am. You're a negotiator. You think you can do
better than the last guy. You're listening to a recording
of the fourth throw line call between Gerald and the police.
(01:21):
This is the first call where Detective Curtis Patterson is
leading negotiator after taking over for Detective Homer. Look, man,
I thought if we had a chance to talk sooner,
maybe we wouldn't still be in this mess. You know,
others agreed. So what you think about what those cops
did to my boy? Man? No disrespect, but I've been
(01:43):
too busy thinking about how to move this situation into
a better place. Gerald? You still here? Yeah? Man? Is
it cool that I call you? Gerald? Can call me
ge all right. Gee, you can call me Detective Pattison,
or you can call me Curtis if you like. Yeah,
(02:07):
did you watch the link? Detective? Yeah? Man, I did.
You got kids? Yeah? I have four? What would you
have done if you was in my shoes? Detective? You're there, Yeah,
I'm here. What would you do if you saw some
(02:28):
grown men killing one of your children, knowing that you've
got the ability to do something about it? I mean,
I would do what I have to do in that moment.
But man, that's not what we are anymore. And it
just seems like you're making things harder on yourself and
(02:51):
a bunch of other folks as well. You know, it
don't get any harder than losing a child. Do you
agree with that? Yes? I do with an ugh pre
Detective that you never have to carry that load you're praying, Man, Gee,
(03:13):
from toime to tom Yeah, how about you? I mean,
it's spent a while, but I like to believe it
there's someone on the other side answer if I really
need to make a call. You know, yeah, they're gonna
ask you. Something ain't stopped you yet? What about Jason Martin?
(03:38):
I mean, are they willing to take this thing all
the way to the end. Are they just a couple
of guys that got caught up in the bad situation?
Of course they caught up. You caught up to We
all caught up because we're black in America. Man, I know,
nobody want to hear me complain how we treat it
(03:59):
out here, because already know how people look at us.
They think that the Irish came over they started from
the bottom, made it work. The Jews came over here,
they started from the bottom, they made it work. The
Armenians they fledging aside, came to America and look at
them now and driving. So they think it, what's wrong
(04:20):
with black people? What's wrong with my people? I can't
figure this ship out. So you know what, from the
time that Niles was a little boy, I told him
myself that you're gonna think different, gonna work hard, you're
(04:45):
gonna work smart, You're gonna have a plan, and things
are gonna pan out for you. I guess what I mean.
Nile's upheld his end of that bargain, every bit of it.
He was a good kid man, good kid on his
(05:06):
way to Ivy League school and after that the Scots
the limit. But you know, what man, This motherfucking America.
This motherfucker is a monster. This country, it consumes black people, man,
(05:29):
and they expect us to just sit back and just
take this ship. Nah nah man, oh, jay, I hear you, man,
I do. However, you know we can't let you kill
a man live on the internet. So you're saying, forget
(05:53):
the driveling, I should just kill him now? No, man,
did I think you know? That's not what I'm saying?
Come on, come on, And I really don't think that's
what you want either. You've got all the answers right now. Brother,
I don't. I don't, No, I don't try to back
the funk out of it now, Detective, let's hear it. Okay, okay,
I I think you want to do right by your son.
(06:15):
But the only way that happens is if you surrender, man,
and let the fucking murdering pig walk right. And that's
exactly what would happen if I don't follow through. See,
at least this way, real justice has a chance. Should
I mean, every time one of us get killed, you
know what they say we need to have a conversation
(06:36):
about race. What the funk is we supposed to talk
about right. Everyone knows what it is. It's the same
ship America's been doing since day one, since before day one.
There's always a law or a fucking loophole that allows
us to get treated any old motherfucking way out here
because motherfucker's keep moving to goddamn gold post on us.
(07:00):
So now it's got to be different. You hear me,
I'm moving the Golden's tongue. Come on, man, come on,
there's no one on this call who is naive. Stop it.
We know the system is not perfect. We've both been
(07:21):
in it for a long time. Different size maybe, But
listen to me. I see what you see I do,
and man, I have to live with that. I have
to live with it too. But check it. I also
see that you made your point. Brother, Trust me, America
hears you loud and clear. And the talking back, Man,
(07:43):
that's got to be worth something. This ain't about talk
a little more. And what was that? I don't know.
He just geez. Terror isn't going the line is an
open detective, Gee, come on, man, talk to me, Gee,
talk to me. Listen to this exchange from the kitchen
surveillance feed. I don't sit them up, keep them away
(08:12):
your police man. He need a doctor and some blood
to you. Probably need to get one in here while
we wait. Gerald requested the doctor for sergeant Place at
eight fifty two PM, a little over an hour and
a half after the online trial had begun, and in
that time span, his post had garnered one million, nine
hundred eight thousand, one hundred twenty three up votes for
(08:32):
innocent and two million, two hundred thirty two thousand, five
hundred thirty five down votes for guilty. And while millions
of people were having their say online and on the
news and in the streets about what transpired with Niles
and the police, Michelle Hayes, Nile's mother, was, by all accounts,
still playing catch up. Listen to my conversation with news
(08:55):
reporter Colleen Sanders about this. So Helen, after you pulled
Michelle from the crowd of protesters and you you cut
the live interview short, did you guys continue to talk
off camera? Did you ever answer her questions about Niles
or get a sense of what she knew? And when?
I never really got the chance. Within seconds of me
calling cut, hordes of reporters moved in and they were
(09:18):
all over her. So I just grabbed her by the
hand and told her to follow me. What did you
take her? I took her to the police, to that
inner parameter where all the shot callers were, and I
explained who Michelle was and they led her through. But
(09:38):
then I was given a stern reminder that I wasn't
welcome in the police's restricted area and told that I
needed to leave, and on my way back to where
my team was still posted up, I hid behind an
outhouse and bawled my eyes out for fifteen minutes, and
then I redid my makeup and I went back to
(10:03):
After Colleen changed her son Stiper, we continued where we
left off. So I know I touched on this before,
But if I'm being totally honest with myself, had I
not been three months pregnant at the time, I probably
never would have cut the interview with Michelle short. So
(10:23):
what did it be? Im pregnant too? I think it
made me aware that I had that I had a
moral obligation to look after Michelle in in the little
way that I could. And the ironic thing about it is,
(10:44):
I'm not sure what's more cruel pulling her emotions out
on live TV for the sake of ratings or or
putting her in the care of the same police force
that had just I don't want to say it. The
reality is the police could tell her more about what
had happened than I could, and as far as what
(11:07):
she knew and when she knew it up to that point,
that's something you're going to have to ask. Michelle. Wait,
so which part did you say you were confused with? Well,
Colleen Sanders mentioned that when she pulled you out of
the crowd, you seem like you kind of knew what
was going on, but that you also seemed like you
were looking to verify if what you had heard was
(11:27):
in fact true. So I guess I'm just trying to
understand what changed from the time you got out of
your car, when you didn't know much at all, to
you linking up with Colleen. While I was walking, I
started noticing small groups of people with signs, you know,
and some of them were channing the types of things
(11:48):
you hear at a protest, but it was still, you know,
it wasn't like a mob the way it would be
when I eventually got near Jas's forty two. And did
you know that the sporadic protester as you were running
into were connected to Niles. I don't know exactly how
to answer that. I think part of me was in
denial for a bit, almost like as long as I
(12:09):
don't hear anyone saying that they were there for Niles,
I could keep my hopes up that everything was still okay.
But deep down and I think I already knew, and
when we're you no longer able to deny it. I
heard a group of kids channing across the street say
(12:30):
his name, now, it's Haze. So I basically started following them,
and within minutes we had all fallen into that mad
way of protests that I talked about as it was
heading towards Jason's forty two. But it just felt like
everyone else was moving along a lot faster than I
could get my body to move, and it was loud
(12:53):
and confusing. Finally, I just remember yet getting this man
that I didn't know from Adam put in him by
his shirt, like really hard, and I said, I now
as his mother, can you help me? That's when he
started calling out to people, telling them who I was,
and then of course calling phone. So when Colleen pulled
(13:13):
you through the crowd, you really hadn't talked to anybody
about Nile Chet. You know, did you know about Gerald's trial?
Not yet. I didn't know about that until Colleen took
me over to the police. Now what was that like?
I don't think they knew what to do with me.
So they put me under this pop up tent that
looked like a makeshift break room. I can still smell
(13:36):
the scent of stale coffee from that night. Anyway, I
was told someone from the department would come talk to me.
While I waited, I was able to charge my phone,
and that's when I learned about Gerald's post and everything else.
(14:00):
Gerald came at doctor was out of the same way
he came at everyone else walked into the bar that night.
How's that by putting the gun in his face? Listen
to this exchange for launch? Where were you at earlier?
What do you never mind? Get on the floor, Get
on the floor. So then Gerald makes doctor Rozoti life
(14:22):
face down on the ground. I was wearing his white
lab coat, not now, Kate, I say that to say this.
That floor was filthy, like he was doing construction and
then everything and so I mean me, President, I thought
it was unnecessary, But that's him he was he was
power tripping who Gerald? Oh so you felt like Gerald
(14:45):
was getting off on the control a thousand percent interesting? Yeah.
So anyways, Gerald started shuffling through the doctor's bag like
looking for weapons or whatever, and then he says to him,
you ain't got no blood in here lactated. What will
it work? I don't know? And I see the patient.
(15:08):
What I admired about doctor Zatti's that he was able
to do two things very quickly. One he never let
Gerald get him rattled. And two it was like he
was looking at the situation in the bar from I
don't know, like a thirty thousand foot view, like when
Gerald post doctor Zaidi in his side with his gun
and directs him to go into the kitchen. As soon
(15:31):
as you walked through, they swing their doors like started
places like right there in front of them, like kind
of sort of propped up on the wall. And then
of course there's Nile's body. It's lying on the table
about ten tell feet away from them in the kitchen.
Doctor Rosatti walk straight past sergeant Place and goes directly
over to Niles and checks his pulse. I'm so glad
(15:53):
you brought that up. I always just assumed that Gerald
constructed doctor Zatti to do that. No, you know, the
doctor did that on his own. And what was the
significance of that. I think it was a gesture. Uh h.
It seemed like it just starmed Gerald a bit. I mean,
(16:13):
not physically, but emotionally maybe, like in a sense I
guess when doctors at he did that. It's like he
claimed the moral high ground. So are you saying that
he checked on Niles. That's a way of saying, as
a way of saying that I see what happened here
and I see your son. Yeah, I think that. I
(16:35):
think that had an impact on Gerald, made him relax
a bit. Cool. Let's just see I need some things
out of my bag. Yeah, hello, my name is dr Izzadi.
Can you tell me your name? Yeah? Yeah, what is it?
(16:58):
I'm gonna take care of you to place, Gonna do
him all right a bit better. How long have you
been bleeding like this? I don't I don't know about
what time did you get shot up? Okay, we're gonna
elevate this leg and get a turn to get on it.
(17:20):
Big up. It needs you to lead into sergeant, place
his chest and don't let him move and you come
over here. I want you to sit on this google
but this right, Sergeant Place, take a deep breath for me. Okay,
there trying out. I don't want to hurt there. We go.
(17:44):
Don't take good. It should be yeah, I got it
from here. I gonna be okay, fluids and you should
start feeling a lot better. But dr has already worked
on Sergeant Place the kitchen. Gerald can be seen pacing
compulsively back and forth in the main bar area, but
(18:05):
unbeknownst to him or anyone else inside the building, the
next few minutes would determine Gerald's fate. Listen to this
communication between Captain Flores and his lead sniper, Captain Floridas
Bursiness one, do you me me that birdness one? Good?
Nine persons one and on nine over Flores on nine,
(18:25):
what do you see? H T one is camped out
in the window. I could save the city a whole
lot over time if you just give me a green light.
Plan shot negative. But I recommend to kill shot Captain.
I got this stand by Bersiness one, checking with command
copy night standing mine well. Captain Flores ran a sniper's
request for a kill shot up the chain of command
(18:47):
inside the restaurant, Jason, Martin, and Gerald share a rare
moment where, just like everyone else, they followed the story
on TV. I want to thank my pail again for
coming in on such short notice. My first question is
for you, since you comforted some of Jay Shaw's past
run ins with the law, does this fit his emo?
You know, Jason was the type of athlete who for
(19:08):
a while there couldn't go into a nightclub and not
get into a fight, let alone inside a brawl with
twenty people. Some years later, he's involved in a shootout
between police and is now holding one of those officers hostage.
But in fairness, this is definitely the most extreme behavior
we've seen from him. To nothing about this is in fairness, Ryan,
(19:29):
Can I just say this is completely indicerent. My black
men in America can't get a fair shake of justice
in this country. I haven't seen any evidence that Jas
was involved in a shootout now, based on that video
that we all just watched together, the only shot you
fairly didn't work by a cop with poor markmanship. By
my head, and you know what, your guest is already
(19:51):
over here calling Jay's a murderer and a kidnap. What
we've seen absolutely whatever calling a murderer or a kidnapper
or I'm just at the fact that he's I didn't
he's a magnet for troub Paralda's character that he's associated with.
It's a prime example of that. And let me just
be clear about one other thing, because I think people
at home need to hear this. Anyone who votes for
(20:13):
Sergeant Place to be executed is at the very least
in accessory to your kid. It's the truth. Furthermore, vigilanti justice.
You might support it, but it has no place in
our society because it's illegal, inadcurate, and a reckless at best.
And anyone who can do it's killing a cop like
this is un American, is committing across and the prosecuted,
(20:36):
and that includes your other. It's like I said, be
talking about both of you were personal attacks on each other.
I really can't tell. Go ahead and respond, of course,
I'm against vigilanti justice. No, you're not ever speaking speak
continued continue eidemic can harmy black people getting mistreat it,
(21:00):
beaten or shot ah by the police. Are you on
my honest opinion? Uh? Yeah, You've been the most honest
with me, so far, so keep going. James got off
on the attention. And why do you think that he's
having his name mentioned on national TV again? Seeing his
name scroll at the bottom of the screen. You know,
(21:23):
he loved that, and that's the drug he'd been missing,
the fame like seeing him light up the way that
he did, that's his weakness. Okay, and I knew right
then and there I can take advantage. How is that? Well,
the first couple of times I tried to draw a
wedge between Jason Gerald, I came at Jay straight on
(21:46):
and essentially just challenges manhood. But you know, I should
have known that wouldn't work. You see, Jason a type
of personality like mostly lead athletes. If I was going
to get through to him, I needed to come at
him sideways first, with flattery. So he goes into the
dining room by himself, channel surfing, probably checking to see
(22:10):
what other networks were talking about him. But that's when
I did my thing, and I crept away and I
grabbed two glasses and up bottle whiskey. Cheers. Je. Do
you know the first time I ever saw you played
(22:33):
what was like like a saltare college me. No, that
was the first time I met. But the first time
I saw you played was you junior in high school.
It was a Southern Sexual championship. Hey, we gotta kill
that game? Yea. Yeah, yeah, but you had thirty five
(22:53):
tackles in eight sex. God damn Yeah. I said to myself,
I said, this kid, Ray, he's going, He's going all
the way. He's the best I've ever seen. I mean,
God gave you everything man, size, athleticism, speed, quickness. Yo.
(23:14):
I had halfback then too. Yeah. I think you blocked
field goal that game. Yeah yeah, and that win no
bullshit as long snopper kicker either. They both ended up
going d one. Hey, sure, did I remember? You know
what my scaluting report. I had the longest list of
positives for you that I had for any other player
and that I've ever scalted. But it was just just
(23:34):
one negative. All right? But I mean, don't sue we Okay,
what's really need was more of a question. Okay, what
was that canny escape the hood? Yeah? I wrote that
down and twenty five years later, James here we are.
Keep listening to Jase, gotta listen to me. You and
(23:57):
I are supposed to be in this mess, like this
is my fight like you have so much going for you,
like the people love you. Man, you got the tol
package could looks, charisma and and and this rest of
one thing that you're trying to do. I really believe
it's gonna happen, Like I'm top seeing a chain of
them ships the chase and order for that to happened, Man,
(24:23):
we ever got to get out of here first, do
you do you hear me? And I'm willing to bet you.
I'm willing to bet you that if you want to
pick up that phone right now, and if you were saying, hey, listen,
this is Jay Shaw and I want one of the
situation got at least we'd be on record as not
(24:44):
being part of the kidnapping. I mean, no, no body
where I see it. There's no way any part of it.
Like you said, I'm the one who dragged the copy
in here. Yes I know, but like they this is
some over the panic and you were cold serve for
a safety. But now, man, I can't do that that
and that again he deserves better than that one, Jason.
(25:04):
I mean, you gotta help me understand something that, for
the life of me, I just cannot figure out in
all my years of representing players that came from nothing
and ended up going to the league, they always had
someone they owned and and in ten of times out
of ten that was just some bullshit mind fun that
people who didn't have ship put on somebody they knew
was gonna make it, and the one that didn't break free, man,
(25:29):
they ended up right back where they started or worse. So, Chase,
what I'm saying is, you don't know anybody anything, and
nobody owes you, but I don't they expect you to
understand this ship because you just from will we hey
like almost second? Backup, back up? What did you mean
about when you said again you said you can't do
(25:52):
that to cheat again? What happened first time? What I'm
about to tell you, I ain't told me right, So
the stage between us what I'm saying, of course, not
fucking word. Not worried man. When me and Gerald was
(26:19):
kids sixteen and seventeen, right around the Hounds age, I
was out there. If you thought I was a beast
on the field, and you should have seen being in
the streets though fighting the other of drugs. I ain't
had no pause button at all. So that little thing
that you wrote about me and your little Scott report.
Can I escape to the little brother Beal? Question was
cut to the whold escaped me? Anyway? I pressured you know,
(26:42):
Gerald to do this smashing Red Roby with me and Andy.
Wait a minute, when I say pressure, it's not like
she was a quiet or nothing like that. He just
thought that the ship was a bit risky. But I
convinced him. So anybody, look, we do a damn thing
and came up with about ten thousand dollars went the
merchandise through its go back cop jam. You ever said
he need to talk, but I refused to say anything
(27:04):
today until I had my lawyer on the Dame years.
I ain't got no lawyer, right, But I did have
a football coach who really wanted me to go to
his album about it for college. See, they promised him
a job as defensive head coach if he could bring
me go to the tickets. So I was his dad.
(27:27):
So anybody my coach since this high power to turney
down to the police station. The guy works his magic,
we make a deal, right, My charges could clear all
I gotta do. It's snitch on the guy who playing
the robbery. But you can't like with the snitch on yourself,
so jarals, Yeah, he sitch on genals. There it was
(27:50):
get my name clear, go to a four year university,
go professionally, mens and dollars. Hey, Gerald, he gets three
years judy, one state as an adult. So learn. When
(28:17):
I say not again, I mean not again, Jesson, I
hear you. I do. But the past is the past,
and the fact of the matter is it's probably better
(28:38):
for general that we take him down as opposed to
the police. What I need to know from you right
now is if there's an opportunity for this to end,
are you with me? As Dr Zati joins Gerald in
(28:58):
the main bar area from kitchen, we see Jason Martin
also enter from the dining room. Is he going to live?
I don't know how much time, brother, how much Look
he's sticks. He has to get to the hospital. That's
what it's about. It's up time. How much time? Four
hours to give or take more than enough time? Okay,
(29:19):
you can go now. Joe crosses from where he was
standing by the window over to the bar. Meanwhile, doctor
Azotti continues to press his point. Look, look, look, look,
if you see any signs of him getting dizzy or
pale or anything like that. You need to call me
back in here. Okay. As Doctor Azotti urges Gerald Jason
Martin to keep a watchful eye over sergeant places condition,
(29:42):
he sort of backs into the same spot in the
window that Gerald had been camping out in just prior.
Now here's why that's important. The police sniper still has
his scope trained on that same spot, only now the
silhouette he's tracking doesn't belong to Gerald, it's Dr Azotti.
When Captain Flora has told me that it was a
(30:02):
kill shot on Gerald, but not a clean shot, I
decided to go to the sniper's position personally Commander Ammon's
recounts and with the para binoculars, I was able to
see with my own two eyes what my sniper was
seeing and what was your assessment. This is our opportunity
to take HT one out and end this thing. Listen
to this radio chatter between Commander Ammon's and the lead
(30:22):
sniper as they communicate with Captain Flores back in the
command trailer. Captain Flores as the Commander Ammonds at Burtness one,
you got me, con commander, and we have confirmed eyes
on target coming in. When we hear target has moved
out of site. That's when Gerald steps away from the
(30:44):
window and crosses to the bar. Now listen to this
exchange when a silhouette reappears just seconds later, but neither
the commander nor the sniper realized that it's no longer Gerald,
but dr as Audi tarted back Commack Kathy for lock
'come person, I want to pay to five you Matter
(31:06):
com Matter Black Commissioner fire next time on hashtag Matter.
(31:27):
Hashtag Matter starring Amen Joseph as Gerald Hayes, Jennifer Christopher
as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason Shaw Hayley, Joel
Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Simms, and
Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional performances by Nile Bullock
(31:48):
is Nile's Hayes, Serena Pouncey as Michelle Hayes, Monte Russell
as Detective Patterson, and Alex Vaughan as Darrel Hanover. Hashtag
Matter was written and directed by Dylan C. Brown. Our
executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp,
(32:10):
and Aimon Joseph. Audio designed by Wolf at the Door,
Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, music by Jonathan Sandford,
edited by Darren Bowling, and our sound director is Alexander Kemp.
Produced by Toby Lawless and Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting.
(32:34):
Hashtag Matter is a production of Shonda land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio and an association with Wolf
at the Door. For more podcasts from shot Land Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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