May 16, 2024 • 54 mins
Welcome to a special bonus episode of The Dynasty Exchange! In this exciting episode, we are thrilled to have Michael Holley, a long-time football journalist, fan, and fantasy player, join us for an in-depth conversation about his experiences in the Dynasty exchange. We dive into the dramatic and unexpected trade betrayal that Michael experienced at the hands of his best friend, as he recounts the details and emotions of a truly unforgettable moment in his fantasy football career.
Our regular guest, Thomas, returns to provide additional context and expert analysis on the situation, helping to unpack the complexities of trading when on the clock. The episode also features a live trade negotiation between Josh and Michael Holley, facilitated by Thomas, offering a fascinating look at the strategies, tactics, and negotiations involved in making successful trades in the Dynasty exchange.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
At the very heart of this show is an idea,
and that idea is simply to be a show about
a league, and so we designed a league specifically for
this show. I'm joined again once again by Thomas Smith,
the number one Smith in my power rankings, currently in
the league and trade partners. And finally, after many technical difficulties, conspiracies,
(00:33):
all sorts of adversity, the decorated journalist mister Michael Howley
a career that the accolades are longer than the roster
of my team is joining us. Most important, however, Michael Holly,
you are a member of the Dynasty Exchange. Thank you
so much for being here, and thank you so much
for being a part of our league. You've already brought
(00:54):
a lot to the table. But I want to just
go to you right away. What's been your first impression?
This is your first year playing Dynasty. You covered the
Patriots for twenty years plus in Boston. In fact, you
were on the documentary The Dynasty, which, by the way,
eight point four on IMDb. I was just checking that out.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Eight point four. Huh yeah, yeah, a lot of them,
and I bet you nobody, nobody from the Patriots voted
because a lot of the Patriots, A lot of those
old Patriots were disappointed by it because in the Dynasty,
if you can believe it, they kind of skipped over
two super Bowls. It just.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yet six. When you have six, you got to make time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, twenty one game win street, two super Bowls,
you know, back to back, fourteen and two seasons. Just
skipped it over, just skipped.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
It a Lott's that's a different level of success. But
the question I have, I mean, Thomas and I talked
about it last episode. You were supposed to join us.
We have got to hear about a couple of trades
that went down, and you're alleging a conspiracy. We want
to get to that, but before we do, before we do,
(02:05):
I just want to know you follow the Patriots for forever.
You're connected to the Dynasty. What lessons are you taking
into building your roster as a first time owner in
the Dynasty exchange?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, there's some carryover. First of all, good to be here,
Good to be here with you. Two brothers, especially my
younger brother here, Thomas Smith, who was actually a family member.
It's a real family like he was. He didn't betray
me like his brother did. We'll get to that, Okay, Okay, Now,
(02:38):
happy to be here, and I'm happy to be in
the league too. Although they're you know, the carryover. I
think it's there are certain things you can bring to
it that that relate to the NFL and others that
just if you're thinking like a general manager, you just
gotta mess yourself up. Like there's salary cap. There's a
(03:01):
salary cap in football, and there are certain players you know,
you just can't get in the NFL. It's just not
going to happen. And you're not going to be able
to get as many draft picks, as much as much
capital as you want. Like somebody, somebody among us here.
I'm not going to say any names. Somebody probably has
like twenty first round picks and like all the quarterbacks
(03:24):
in the league. And and when I asked, when I
asked about you, Josh, I was like, what's up? What
does Josh dude? And the answer I got was, he's
the bank, He's the goal Peter Bank. Okay, you can't
it me the bank. So if you go to the bank,
(03:45):
you got to sit down and you just got to
make sure if you want to get you know, you
want to get that loan. You's got to make sure
you come correct. I'm talking to Josh. I mean, how
many first round picks you have for twenty.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Five twenty five? I have seven, I think, and then
I think I have seven and twenty six. I'm trying
to add to it. I'm little disappointed, a little disappointed,
and we have been able to interest rates have been high.
People aren't taking out loans right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Now, damn. And I'll be like almost like you know what,
I'll eat some beans and romen noodles a couple of
years because I just can't deal with this. I'll just
have to Dave Ramsey.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Dave Ramsey would be proud eat the beans, ramen noodles,
stay away from the bank.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But here's the answer the question, though, Here's what the
carryover is. I think you can't overthink this thing. You
can't overthink it. So one thing I've learned in my
short time here in the league is just get get
good players. Don't get role players like in the NFL,
(04:48):
you would get a role player like I say, you
got hey, I got my ex receiver, I got my
why you know, I need a slide all that kind
of stuff. That's that's what real NFL team.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Du Yeah, this guy on special teams.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, the area I do not believe in that. Just
get good players and figure it out. And so once
you start drafting for roles and making uh like little
niche players for certain positions, especially if you're drafting high,
I mean obviously you can do that, you know, tenth
round in the startup draft, twelfth round and startup draft,
(05:25):
you know, developmental guy and put a guy on your
taxi squad. But you know this last draft, I had three,
I had ten, I had number twenty, so you know,
two o four. Hey, I'm just trying to get good players.
And so yeah, I thought at number ten I never
(05:46):
thought i'd have I wasn't even thinking about Rock Bowers.
So Rock Bowers was there at ten? Uh he lay?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, no, for sure he fell to you there.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Just take a highly ready player instead of okay, well
it's tight end and you know, I'm not sure I
need a tight end here. No, take the good player.
So it's just that's the philosophy for me. It's just
as build as many or get as many good players
as you can on your roster, and it will it
will either work out for you or it will create value.
(06:22):
So when you talk to somebody like Thomas or Josh
and you and it's time to make a deal, you
have some attractive pieces on that roster that people want.
So yeah, I mean that's that's the number one thing,
and that's That's one of the conversations Bill Belichick had
with Jimmy Johnson back in the day where Jimmy had
(06:44):
had finished coaching Belichick had just started with the Patriots.
Jimmy Johnson was like, hey, man, this is what you
need to do every draft started. Start from the back
of it, Like you really have to know the draft
from the back all the way up to the front.
Don't go top down, go bottom up. So if you
need to trade down, you know what you're trading down for.
(07:07):
If you need to trade up, you have done your
homework so you know the entire draft. And then after
you study the entire draft, you got to make a
realistic list. In Belichick's case, he told him, I think
he's like, make a realistic, realistic list, like twenty two
players that you'd like to have on your team that
you think you can get in the draft. Twenty two
(07:29):
and then if you have enough capital, see how many
of those twenty two that you can put your team
in position to get So I look at it that
way too. I mean, and our rookie draft. I was
getting excited, not as excited as Thomas, who was like
(07:50):
dealing like crazy, But in the fourth round I was
having a great I thought the fourth round was more
exciting than the first two rounds because I saw some
good play was there. I'd made my list. I'm like,
this guy's selling the board, and people were like DM
and me, Hey, you want to do you want to
move out?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Hell no, hell no, I'm not moving out.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
We had we had like five Thomas, how many transactions
did you complete alone in the fourth round? I was
making jokes because I had traded out of this draft.
I was jealous. People were moving all sorts of different
assets to go get their last round sleeper. It's just
the sign of a healthy league. But Thomas, how many
do you do you remember offhand? Like how many moves
you made towards the end of that draft.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
It was so many, I can't even remember, but I
remember like between the third and the fourth round, I
would say I did about seven, yeah, seven transactions like
moving up to get a pick, or like just buying
a pick straight up from somebody for future capital or whatever.
But you know, like, I, man, look.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
The way I see it, I kind of see it
like how highly sees it. Man, One man's trash is
another man's treasure. Right, So they got a lot of
times people just like, oh, I just want first round picks.
I just want second round picks.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You can have all the first and second round picks
and they could still bust. I got a lot of
first round picks that bust. But if you do your
homework and you look at these guys with like, Okay,
this guy has potential and he has an open and
like Javon Baker going and I paid.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Jeremy who's in the league.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think I used future capital to get up to
three to oh one in the sixteen team league as
the thirty third pick, and I got Javon Baker. Not
because I'm like, oh my god, I have to have
another player to start my lineup. No, it's because that's
a dart throw that I'm willing to invest in. He
has a path to greatness, he has people seem to
(09:49):
People seem to think that he can be an alpha receiver.
So I want to take a chance on that guy.
So I'm like Mike, I was like wheeling and dealing
and third and fourth round was just fun.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and and a lot of it A lot of
it too is some of it is based on your
homework and some of it is just feel or hey,
certain things that you like. There are guys in so
I can tell you all the players I like, but
I can I can also tell you players like, Nah,
I don't trust that guy. Yeah, I don't trust.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Is there a name that comes to mind for you
right away?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Trust your breakout?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
What? What?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Literally? What?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And so the guys I give a lot of love,
the guys who who have produced in college from the
jump and it's just like steady, like from day one.
So I think a guy he didn't get a lot
of love in our league nor in the NFL. I
love Troy Franklin. I love Troy Franklin. I can't. I
(10:53):
can't believe you went in the fourth round. I mean,
I think I think Troy Franklin is going to be
a star. Maybe not in year one, I think he'll
be a star in the league. So, but he's produced.
If you look at him in Oregon. Those numbers are
always good, and you know, I really went back and
forth over Worthy, but he was the same way at Texians.
(11:14):
You know, just really produced as a guy who's undersized,
but the production just tells you he can ball. Yeah.
I went back and forth between Worthy and Brock Bowers
for that that number ten pick, But ultimately I was
thinking that I think Bowers is a higher, higher ceiling
prospect than Worthy, even though I know, even though I
(11:36):
like worthy situation.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well. Also, we played a tight end premium league, so
that's a savvy move. Go get the highest. You know,
there's going to be a very small number of tight
ends that are going to be able to produce twelve
plus Fantasy points the game, even in the premium league.
So I think you got the premium position. That was
a good tiebreaker to take love your Troy Franklin love.
He's quickly becoming a my guy because he's with Bo Nicks,
(11:59):
who played with the College. That's another you know, if
you're gonna be a fourth round pick, you might as
well go to the guy that like loves you and
you guys produced together. But you know, Michael, you came
off so articulate. It's clear why you succeeded in the
in the sports industry. But I have to say, and
I have to ask the question, how then, with all
the strategic mind that you just showcased, did tragedy befall you?
(12:21):
Because I remember you saying at this, keep in mind
the startup Draft. We do a lottery to pick our spot,
and when you pick your spot in the startup draft,
you are in turn picking your rookie, your rookie startup spot.
Because we do the inverted drafts, you get your rookie
picks completely inverted. You picked the one fifteen to get
the one oh two specifically because you are an Ohio
(12:42):
State fan and you love Marvin Harrison Junior. Is that that?
That's the report I was told? Oh, I h that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I listen, man, you know why I picked the one
You know why I picked the one fifteen, or I
mean you know you know why I yeah, I mean, yeah,
you know why I did that because of Michael Smith.
Now I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. I'm
tell you the whole sad story. Now Michael Smith, as
(13:16):
Thomas knows, Michael Smith has been my best friend for now.
Oh my god, twenty years longer than twenty years. Twenty
years twenty years longer. Like we met in nineteen ninety nine,
so twenty five years. We hit it off. We hit
(13:38):
it off instantly, instantly they won. He's like they won,
like his I introduced him to his wife, his daughter,
my goddaughter. I mean, like, Thomas, like my brother. Like
it's been like that, like we it's family, right, Thomas
like real, No, it's real talk. That's real talk. Hey,
(14:00):
come on, So I trust I trust. I trusted. I
trusted Michael Smith. So Smith was telling me, hey, may
I get in this league? This league is great designs league,
And honestly, I was not into it. I was busy.
(14:20):
I'm like, man, what's this stuff you're talking about. I
don't even get it. What are you talking about? Hey? Hey,
give me sign up? He answer this poll, this poll
in the league. Hey man, you haven't long done in
a while. I'm like, okay, okay, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. He said,
hey man, I'm going to do start off draft. This
is what you should do. So he told me about
the draft position. I had no idea. So, wow, you're
saying I did it because of Marvin Harrison. I did
(14:42):
it because I got advice from Michael.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Smith, who you've known for twenty years, twenty five twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Five, twenty five years, twenty five years. That's making on
my wedding. Okay, all that, all that, So man, I'm thinking, Okay,
he's just gonna guide me through this. He's guiding me
through now. As I as I think about the story,
I do have to take some responsibility. As I think
(15:11):
about it, I'm like, okay, what you know, what what
is my role in this? Okay? I probably did something
that was little underhand too, all right? So Smith says, hey, man,
I hear that Keith. That would be deuce brat for
league league purposes who have all the time. Hey, Keith
(15:33):
loves Jade and Daniel. He's gonna take Jade and Daniels
at three, he's gonna. So you should make a deal
with Keith. Hey, man, you can get some extra capital.
You ain't gonna take Jadon Daniels. Nope, I'm not taking
Jadon Daniels. Don't want them, but Keith does. Hey, let's
make a deal, so Keith, you know, I get an
(15:54):
extra second. It's good, Hey, good doing business with you.
Then before the draft, like a couple days before the draft,
he says, hey, who are you taking?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
You?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I'm not taking who you taking? All right? Okay, okay,
So this is all a three This is a three
man weave. You see where I'm going. It's a three
man weave.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Michael Keith. Just to clarify, Keith asked you that or
was that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Mike? A couple of days before the draft? Rookie draft?
Who are you taking? What are you thinking? At number three? Hey, look,
I made a deal with you. You you stay over
there with your LSU people. Keith is from New He's
a New Orleans guy. You stay over there with Jaydeon Daniels.
(16:40):
I'll stay with Marvin Harrison. Michael Smith has number four.
We'll leave him out of it. Okay, Jeremy's gonna take
Jeremy lum Blair's gonna take Caleb Williams at one if
he doesn't take Caleb Williams at one. I'm taking Caleb
Williams at three over Marvin Harrison, but I know he's
gonna take Caleb. So Caleb at one, Jade Daniels at two,
(17:04):
and Marvin Harrison, my homeboy Ohio State at three. I'm
feeling good day of the draft. Okay, we start the
draft a week early because our draft was scheduled commissioner
on Mother's Day weekend. Now, ain't not listen. That's just
not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
My son's only one years old. I'm a rookie when
it comes for the Mother's Day celebration. Okay, Now, I
did make a great short rip I pulled up. I
will admit, but but.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, that on me. That's on me.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's on me. That's my hand in the story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Credit to you. You move it up, you move up
the drafted, you move up a week. I'm ready to go.
I was like, oh my god, I had done my
drafts with Marvin Hare. I mocked it out everybody else.
I said, okay, I did the Okay, I'm gonna manually
put him here, Caleb here because the computer got it wrong.
So so no, we're gonna do it this way. I
(17:54):
know Caleb's going first. I know Jadon and Daniel's going second.
I know who's going third. I know how Michael Smith thinks.
So I got him at you know four. I said,
he's gonna take Neighbors, he's gonna take a Doomsday, and
he's probably gonna take Rock Vowers too, he might make
a trade for a quarterback. I'm doing all these calculations,
and then it hit me. It hit me. I said,
(18:16):
what if this in the back of my mindset, what
if Mike makes a deal with Keith. But then I
just let that go. I said, I let that go.
That wouldn't happen. That wouldn't happen because he wouldn't do
that to me, Like neither guy would do that to me.
Because because Keith said to me before the draft, and
(18:37):
he was asking who I was gonna take. Keith said, hey, man,
you can tell me. I said, I can't tell you
who I'm taking. He said, you can tell me. We've
covered super Bowls together. Oh like yeah, okay, now I
can trust you because we've been to super bowls together.
All right, day of the draft, Fellas, My son got
two sons, my younger son, he's got a play. He
(19:00):
was He was participating in some play called the Phantom
Tollbooth basically, you know, great play. So he had the
he was in it. The opening night of the play
was Friday, so I saw that opening night. Great Saturday
play starts in seven thirty Eastern time, so right around
(19:21):
and he was already, he was in, he was on
the stage. I went, I went back to back night,
so saw opening night with the whole family. Second night.
I said, look, I'll represent the family. I got my
boys in a play. I'm going back to.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Back being a good dad.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, seven point thirty plays starting. I'm looking at the phone.
I see Michael Smith trains up to number two and
drafts Marvin Harrison. Now the play's going on. I'm supposed
to be inside watching the play. I call up Mike.
(19:56):
I said, fuck you fu, I can't believe you did
this to me. Please. Oh oh wait, what what do
you mean? What do you mean? Everybody knew, everybody like,
come on, like, oh, it's Keith not supposed to trade
(20:17):
number two. I said, damn right, he's not supposed to.
It's an inside deal. It's supposed to be all done.
He was supposed to stay in his lane, you were
supposed to stay in yours. But he set the and
I told him, I said, you set the whole thing up,
You set it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
All up, you set the trade back.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, And he said, well you could have called you
could have called Keith. And I said no, no, because I
don't want to do that I don't want to play
that game we had. We had an arrangement. I thought, uh,
and the arrangement blew up. But I did see it
coming because Keith and you guys know this and let
(20:56):
the audience know. Keith was on the clock for about
three hours mm hm at number two, I said, oh shit,
it's going down. And I knew it was because because
because Smith said, oh, hey, the Keith pick. Yet he
called me like like in the beginning when Keith was on,
(21:17):
like first fifteen minutes, Keith is on the clock. The
Keith pick. Yet he said no, he said, I called him.
I woke him up. He was asleep. I told him
to pick. I'm gonna call him back. Then it got
real quiet.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Okay. So so so, just to just to clarify, the
betrayal is twofold one. It's the it's the trade itself.
When it seemed it's Mike set up the trade for
you to move back as a friend to three right number.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Two, easy way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He's he's been your advisor since day one in the league.
He's the one that introduced you and you've shared it's
terrible trade.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I want to trade knowledge. Hey, hey you so what
do you think here, Hey, hey man, I think you
should take a quarterback here and yeah, you know, and
I told him by the way we made up. And
I don't want to get into all this because once
again my nafta. I made a big trade with him,
really stupid trade where I gave him everything for CJ. Strove.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
We covered that in the show. Actually, I was very
impressed that it was reversed. I gave I gave Mike
crap for reversing it in good faith.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I said, dude, yeah, yeah, we reversed the trade. It
was just but he but he regretted it too because
he missed CJ. Stroud And I think he was looking
at the quarterback landscape, okay, and I gave up a
bunch for CJ. Stroud. So anyway, he said, you're not
going to trade three, are you? I said, no, I'm
not going to trade it, right, so an assurance, a
(22:48):
verbal commitment that I'm not going to trade number three.
When he gave it back to me, I said, but
I will tell you this is not smart on my part.
I said, I will tell you. I don't want you
be surprised on the clock. Then I'm gonna take Marvin.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Harris Mmm, you tips the pick too much total, But
it's not tipping the pick to the league.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It's to my best friend of twenty five years. I
don't want to set you up like that. I don't
want you to be surprised, and I'm going to tell
you I'm just gonna keep it real with.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Good faith. Ah Man question for you and to give
the listeners some context so I know that I know
the other end of this story. Did Mike portray you?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Am I proud of him for doing it in some
as a commissioner who promotes competition and parody within the rules. Fantastic.
The only thing then, and you're reacting to it exactly
as you should, Holly. You should absolutely drag his character
through the mud. Yes, because it is a betrayal of
epic proportions. But one if I'm you and that happens
(23:55):
to me at three, guess who I'm taking this out
on the accomplice to the party. I am drafting Jayden Daniels,
and I'm saying you come, you come and get you
want to play games and play hostage with my heart,
ain't no problem. I'm taking yours too, and I'm getting
the first with it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
See Mike said that Thomas Thomas. Mike said that to
me after when I was yelling at him before the play. Now,
I was four minutes late to the Phantom Tobo, but
I didn't miss my son's Okay. I was four minutes
late tonight too, on time for night one, but pissed
off for night two. Other dance are in there, like
(24:34):
good job, but yes, yes, and I'm like this, mother,
I can't did this. I was able to cal him
down and then intermission I called him back an intermission.
I was like another fig I thought of this, though
I did think of it. I said, look, I can
(24:55):
play this game with Keith. I can sit here and
take Jayde and Daniels. But Frank, this is, you know,
just the way I look at it. I think Drake
May is much better than Jadie Dames. I think Drake
May is gonna be a better pro than Jade and Daniels.
I just I just like him more so, I said,
I'm not gonna play this game. I don't want to extra.
(25:16):
I don't want to talk to Keith, I don't want
to talk to Mike. I'm not making a trade with them. Hey,
it's not gonna I don't trust them anymore. So whatever,
I'm gonna draft my board. So as the deception was
was going down, I knew it was coming. I said,
a right. So if I'm on the board, Marvin Harrison
is gone, what am I gonna do? I'm definitely not
gonna trade out because my team needs a lot of help.
(25:39):
I got a lot of holes. I'm gonna take a quarterback.
I just traded for Bryce Young for number twelve, and
so I had three ten twelve. I traded twelve for
Bryce Young, and I picked up Drake May and felt
pretty and my quarterback room improved. Matically.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, my, once again, I think you could have still
had Drake May. You just take Jade and Daniels first
and then trade back. Trade him back, Drake, you know,
just squeezing for an extra pick. You didn't want to.
You didn't want to hear his his traitorous voice. I
don't want I want you guys covered super Bowls together.
I get it. I respect. Yeah, No, I like it.
(26:24):
I think also you mentioned it knowing the other side.
Mike was was doing his own mock drafts, and he
was trying to figure out who everyone was taking to
every pick. It looked like based on roster construction coming
out of the startup Draft that you were going to
have to take quarterback in the rookie draft no matter what.
So Marvin Harrison would be off your board. But you
had a very savvy trade. I applaud you for it.
(26:46):
You'd built up some extra capital and you went and
got Bryce Young right before the draft started. And that's
when I knew. I was like, I think Holly just
outflanked Mike. I think Holly now has young qbs because
you who did you take in the startup draft. I'm
trying to remember you had Aaron Rodgers. Aaron, Yes, Aaron Rodgers,
(27:06):
but then you also had Bryce Young. He had two
qbs to start the year in a sixteen team league.
That's hard to do. I was trying to get a
deal done with you for like a Russell Wilson or
a Daniel Jones.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Can you tell people what you were what the asking
price is for Russell Wilson? I just want I want
people to I just.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Maybe I believe it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Educated.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, So in a sixteen team league where injuries are
going to be prevalent, I was interested in dealing Russ
to you, along with other picks to get a first.
I think it's more than reasonable.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What on the picks, probably.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
A couple thirds or maybe a single second depending on
the year. It's more than fair.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But you said you need two quarterbacks? Okay, yeah, whatever.
Can you guarantee that Russell Wilson be the starting quarterback
for the Steelers on October fifteenth?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Can you guarantee Drake may will be for the Patriots? No?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
But I don't need him to be. I know Aaron
Rodgers will be unless he gets hurt. That I know,
And I know Bryce Young will be because it's the
number one pick they committed to.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well, there you go, and and I applaud the move.
I thought it was objectively much better trade for you
to do to go get Bryce Young by someone who
was drafted above C. J. Stroud last year. I applaud
the move. I think Mike was mad you made a
move without his advice and that's why he pulled out
the dagger. That's my theory, Thomas. You know your brother
is that like Mike? Is that really what happened?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Part of me wants to just stay out of this
because I you know, conflict of interest and all.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Of that family uh family.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But I know for a fact.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
He I mean he loves Marvin Harrison, he does not
as much as Holly because I don't know if anybody,
because I went to LSU like if I had a
chance in hell of getting elite neighbors. I exhausted every
single option to try to get him. Yeah, and it
didn't work out. But that's fine. You live, You live
and fight another day and you deal with the team
(29:06):
you got. But I know he loves Marvin Harrison, but
I know he got to think for receivers in gym,
so he wasn't sold if I'm speaking for him, but
I don't think he was sold on any of those quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's side of Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So he wanted the receivers in this class more than
he wanted a friend. And I think that's where it
comes down to.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
And then let me tell you how you tried to
emotionally manipulate me too when I'm when I'm calling you.
When I'm calling, he said, is this is this real?
You real mad? Or you just you know, just you're
just doing this? I said, no, No, I'm pissed off, man,
I'm really pissed, Like, hey, man, I don't want this
to end the friendship like shot the fun. You want
(30:00):
me to feel sorry for you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You're the victim that Mike, Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
That's That's the type of friendships I think we all
want to have where you could just absolutely cuss someone
out one moment and be like, our relationship isn't changing
obviously about this. I'm just as a competitor, screw you.
I'm going home.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
But no, but now I know I will not go
to him. I will not go to him for advice.
This was a I do want to I hesitate to
say this. I do want to thank him for that experience,
because they're no friends. There are no friends in the
league as you're doing business. There's no brotherhood everybody. I
(30:40):
think it was a apprentice who said in the chat,
you know, a week ago, he said, I wouldn't trust
nan one of y'all. I wouldn't trust and nobody. As
if I'm on my deathbed, you still be trying to
get draft picks from me.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So I would send flowers with the trade offer. I'd
be like, I am so so sorry for your loss
and what you're going through, and I would hate for
you to leave this life without the opportunity to maximalize
your value. Set up your descendants for success, give them
(31:16):
a team that's going to compete right away. I'll take
care of the picks for you.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I want to hear. I want to hear from both
of you, because, first of all, this is a fantastic story. Holly,
thank you for hopping on and telling it to it.
But that was aw I just I want to create
a bit of a time capsule for listeners because they're
going to be following the league throughout the year. Thomas,
right now, I feel you drafted a great team. We
just did our schedule. We completely reorganize our schedule, the divisions,
(31:43):
the whole nine. Mike had to make sure it was perfect.
Spend all day working on it. You know who you're playing,
you know what your team mostly looks like. Thomas, what's
your record? Where do you finish? Do you make what's
the team's goal? For your team? And Holly, I want
to hear yours as well. Where do you guys feel
your team's finished. It's like the opening season press conference.
What should fan expecting from Thomas Smith's team and from
Michael hall Is team Thomas will start with you.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I would say that my team is I'm gonna
I'm gonna be in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm gonna be in the hunt.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I feel that deep in my heart that I have
enough to do that. I will say that I don't
feel like I'm gonna be as dominant as I was
coming out of the startup drafts because I've liquidated a
couple of my assets from Brandon.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Ik to Jayden Reid or whatever.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But I got in Djoku at tight end as the
tight end premium, So I feel like some of it
some of it is, you know, I recouped a little
bit of the firepower in some ways. But if you
look at my bench, I am trying to do just
like you, Josh are taking the road less traveled and
(32:47):
saying I'm going to put my picks in the future
and I'm going to dominate that way. My my goal.
Nobody in our league has a bench like I do.
I got some good rookies with upside, I got starters
on my bench, and I look around and there's nobody there.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So I will be the bank.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
When these injuries start taking place, because it is a
sixteen team lead and they're gonna be some injuries, and
they're gonna be some people who are needy for players.
And when they have other people who are competing who
don't have the depth that I do, who they gonna
come talk to me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So it's enough.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's a little bit of a longer play with some
of this stuff, but I do believe that my depth
will come into play and it will allow me to
even be better as the season goes on.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So late playoff push, you're saying you're the Packers of
last season. I love it. Holly, what do we got
coming from? By the way, what's the team name? Thomas?
Cause I want to hear I want to hear Holly's branding.
It feels like, I mean, Holly could sell ice to
an Eskimo. I can already like just talking to him,
I'm like enthralled. So but Thomas, what's the team name?
How should people recognize your team?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Action?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Jackson Jackson RP Call Weathers had to do it for you, man,
from that's my guy.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Act Johnson's doing eight and six making playoffs before.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Before I tell you about my team, I did text
and because I couldn't talk to him, but I did
text Mike U during the draft after the portrayal, post betrayal,
and this is like second and third round. I was like,
Thomas is killing it right now, Like you had a
stretch in the draft. I want to think, So, who
(34:31):
was your second you had? You have one who's your
last second round pick? Multiple second rounders? Yeah, this is
my this is who I drafted.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Initially, I had Jermaine Burton, Roman Wilson, uh Javon Baker
I did. I went and got Tyrone, Tracy Malik Washington
run there.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I was just like, it was just hit. It was
hit at all players that I had, you know, I
had on my board. I was like, oh, because that Burton.
I thought Burton was a really great pick. I thought
he would be there. A lot of people weren't talking
about him. I just could. I still can't believe that
he fell as far as he did. Like Burton, and
(35:12):
it was a third round pick, I thought that was
a little too low.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Already he had great spot.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So yeah, I thought you did really well, especially that
second and third rounds. Just really starting to crush it.
So my team available on Netflix and to b which
is a reference to an incredible interview Kat Williams did
with Shannon Sharp where he just roasted everybody, everybody and
(35:42):
just it was so hilarious. I just can't every now
and then I go back and watch an excerpt from
it because it's just so outrageous, uh and hilarious. So
so my team is available on Netflix and to be,
and I feel like it's to be. The team is
going to be a reflection of reflection of my Dynasty
(36:04):
experience so far. So I feel like I had no
idea what I was doing in the startup Draft. So
I was like, yeah, i'll get a Q. I didn't
get the importance of two quarterbacks. Frankly, I didn't get it.
So I didn't draft a quarterback. I only drafted one
starting quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, and that was like in the
(36:25):
sixth or seventh round. I was like, oh, whatever, thinking
like one of those NFL teams of how I'll build
up the rest of the roster and I'll just put
a quarterback in there. It doesn't work like that. You
don't have two quarterbacks. You can't compete, period. And I
didn't get it at the time. So I really screwed
up the startup Draft. I felt like I had a
(36:46):
good rookie draft, and so the team in a lot
of ways, the moves that I'm making now, I'm making
corrective moves to kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I love the awareness there. That's so big for you
to be like, hey, within a couple of weeks, I
realized I had to pivot and I wasn't doing it
the right way. Yeah, so many owners have had this
has been the plan all along, and I'm like, no,
it's not.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
If you're getting killed, admit it. You're like, hey, I'm
not doing good. Now I'm doing great. Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Lot of it's a lot of rewiring. So I would
think the team will be competitive. I would be thrilled
if the team makes the playoffs. I don't think it's
quite a playoff team, but I think it's a team
that might be able to sting you every now and then,
especially with some of the ask questions. So it's a
primarily young team. So Bryce Young. If Bryce Young can
(37:36):
go from ten touchdown passes to twenty, okay, if Aaron
Rodgers can play more than.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Four snaps, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
All Right, I'm on Rack continues to do his thing.
Whose brock Bower is gonna be you know it's it's
hard sometimes for rookie tight ends. Am I going to
hit any of these? You know, third or fourth round
picks gonna turn out to be good players? Well, Ady
Mitchell turned out to be a good player. I pissed
off Adie Mitchell. Will he be good for Indianapolis? So
(38:06):
it's just like a lot of questions. So I think
some weeks it'll look pretty good. In some weeks, you
just trying not to get blown out. I know what
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I think, go ahead, Thomas, I'm gonna try to plug
of trade in there. I'll let you do this with
Daniel Jones, Michael Michael, with Daniel Jones. I think your
roster could be playoffs right now. I don't want you
to know on this show and say that you're not
making playoffs and you're one. You have Aaron Rodgers is
about to have an MVP season, redeem the Jets. It's
gonna be great. I don't want you to miss that train.
(38:38):
A couple firsts Russell Wilson and Daniel Jones. I'll throw
them both in package deal just for you to help
heal the wound from Michael. From Michael Smith.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
This man is the epitome of ABC always be closing
every every time I've been on this show.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
He's trying to just draw a trade off of man,
he's just.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Trying to get picks from me. Whatever you can get.
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
But I was about to say about you, Mike is
you know I think also you have to have an
awareness and dynasty that I've learned and you know, since
I started, because it was a learning curve for me too.
But you have to have awareness of like where players
are going. Like you can't just say, oh, I gotta
(39:22):
have this guy because he caught eighty balls for twelve
hundred yards last year, and I need all my guys
to have that kind of status. You have to find
people who you think are going to excel, are going
to take the next step. And you got to try
to like pick your guys and figure out exactly who
you think is worthy of the picks that you don't
(39:45):
really want, Like like you picked Aaron Rodgers with like
night probably tenth round or whatever. There's a damn good
chance Aaron Rodgers could throw for thirty.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Touchdowns this year. If you say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And then and then you gotta then you do have
a playoff team.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, you know what I mean. And it's and it's funny,
like you find out what other guys think of your
of your players because you you wind up valuing guys
for the exact reason you said, Thomas, Hey, I think
this guy is on the come up. I love them
so for for me, that guy on my roster is
Khalil Shakir blah. All right.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I'm a Shakir fan too, dang it, I'm a fan.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So I was trying to make a deal with somebody
in the league. I'm not going to say who it was.
I was trying to make a deal, a pretty pretty
bold deal. As a matter of fact. I say, you
know what this is, let's just go in there, let's go,
let's go for it. And I put Shakir in there.
I'm thinking this is a pretty fair offer. And the
message back to me was, you know, a couple of
(40:49):
these receivers that you have presented here are irrelevant. I
was like, damn, how could you say that about my son?
H But we all value we all have guys that
we value differently, which leads us to Jackson Smith and
(41:09):
Jigba Job.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You brought it up.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, who I've been trying to I thought we were
going to have a deal. So I picked up a trade,
made a deal with Thomas. So got a first round pick,
he got David and Djoko. Great for him, great for me.
I thought it was a very fair trade. It was easy.
It was easy trading with you, Thomas. We had a
(41:33):
great communication. All right, fine, what do you want? Quick?
All right? So then I had this first round pick.
And as soon as that trade was official, for about
thirty four seconds, I get a DM from Josh who says,
what do you want for that first round pick? The
bank always and I said to him more first round picks?
(41:57):
What I want for this first round pick? More first
round pick? That's right. So we start talking. I said, look,
I like on your roster. I like JSN and I
like George Pickens. Pickens it's his everything, that's what you say.
He loves Pickings.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I'm irrational about picks.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Fine, I don't really want Pickens. I want js in
not just because of Ohio state, but because of what
we talked about. I think it's coming. It's coming. Maybe
if it might not be twenty four, might be twenty five,
I don't know. So I think one first round pick
is very reasonable one first round pick. Josh uh is
(42:39):
insisting on two first round picks in a package, but
two first round picks must be a part of it.
And I said, look, I understand. I feel like he's
more than one, but he's less than two, so it's
somewhere in there. But two is two. I feel like
(43:00):
it's too much.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You gotta understand the going rate. I mean, Holly. In
my day job, I'm all about providing value to my clients, right.
I would be remiss if I was ever look at
a property. I'm in real estate. If I was ever
to look at a property for my clients and they
were like, hey, we want to make an offer on
this home. What are the comps going for? You know
what I'm talking about? If I I mean I.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I said, how many yards you have last year? Six
hundred something, six hundred two.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
But we just talked about how you have to project
a player taking the next step. Tyler Lockett's is on
the wrong side of thirty. We all believe in the
prospect long term. You're trying to trade for him, so
you believe in it. Here's what I'm saying. I took
JSN in the startup draft in the fourth round in
front of Bryce Young. Now, mind you, I understand QB
scarcey is a real thing, and I know Bryce Young.
(43:49):
If someone believes in a QB is always going to
get that premium. So I'm not saying that in a
vacuum a first plus isn't a fair market value. But
I'm not actively looking to get rid of Jasn because
I need capital. If I can make a profit to
let go of a young player who would still fit
a timeline of the bank, it would have to look
(44:10):
like two firsts. So that's the perspective. That's where the
comps come from. You paid two first for Bryce Young,
if I'm correct, Is that something close to that value?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
No? No, one. First, I have to go it was
it was number twelve, it was twelve and something else,
But it wasn't two first.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
You paid one, twelve and a twenty five first.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I think.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I think if you paid two first for Rice.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I stand corrected. That's right, I did. I did.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Okay, But that's the comp that's yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
You can't do that. You can't say a comp a quarterback.
This is a quarterback premium. Okay. Quarterbacks are hard to find.
You cannot compare. You can't say just because you took
JSN before quarterback, you can't. He's a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, but he went around a similar place. And so Michael,
let me, let me, let me save us both time here.
I've put some thought on this for you, Okay, put
some thought. You want JSN, you want to you want
to be a playoff team in twenty twenty four, because
I think JSN is going to break out and be good,
not just this year, but in years to come. I'm
not talking about a fifteen hundred yard season, but one
thousand yards, eighty five catches, maybe six touchdowns. I think
(45:24):
it could totally happen. Been doing my status. You still
would need a QB if I was to come, because
you got two young qbs right now. My question is
what would I have to include with JSN to come
get a Bryce young or to come get a drink player.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Let's goal because I will.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Throw in I will throw in Russ so that you
have a third QB.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I don't want Russ. Okay, he can score your points.
I don't want Russ.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Russ is do you want JSN?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
You made a beautiful argument. I have to say it
was a beautiful argument, worthy of the great debaters, like Denzel's,
like he should have been in the movie. Okay, you
made a beautiful argument for a player on the rise,
and then you turn around and offer me a descending
asset in Russell Wilson.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
You have needs your own argument. No, no, no, I'm not.
Russ is not part of the trade. Russ is the
the box of chocolate turtles appreciation to do business. Yeah, okay, fair, So.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
You mentioned what would it take to get a Bryce Young.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Or Drake May because those are two young, young pieces
that could still fit my timeline. Drake May might be
your song. I'm just curious. We're just checking prices right now.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Okay, yeah, Well, if if JSN is a couple of
first rounders, Drake May is probably two and a half
to three, right, they'd pick. That's fair, young guy, you know,
being you won't be twenty two until August. He's actually
he's even older than jasm is only like what twenty one,
(47:04):
He's like one of the younger He was twenty when
he came out. I wasn't. But I'm not really thinking.
I'm not really thinking in those terms. I want to
know from Thomas Neutral party. It's two first round picks
for JSN fair or not not fair.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
There's what someone's willing to pay.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, actually, actually, let me
take that back.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
It depends on the year.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
If we're talking next year, it's unfair.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
If we're talking maybe twenty five, the twenty six or
twenty seven, Yes, but I think there needs to.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Be a gap filler.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
So maybe, like I don't know if there's a second
round or third round or two thirds or something that
needs to be put with that.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh but yes, I think he could.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
I think two first rounds and offered that I offered
you in.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Different years, in different years other than just next year.
Is okay? We got receipts. Hey do we let's go
over our history. Now you got it? Can you call
it up here?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Let me see pull it up? Pull it up right now?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
This is this is riveted a man for you so
many How about the trade? How about the trade? Last trade?
I offered him? He reject He rejected so much. I
offered him this is rejected. Okay, yes, all right, No
I don't like that one that goes.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
No, no, no, yeah, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Some time here go twenty twenty five first round pick.
All right, twenty twenty five third round pick, twenty twenty
five third round pick. So that's one first two thirds
and Khalil Shakir.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
For j s N.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
And two second rounds.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
You just on two second rounds? What are you talking about.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
The second round? And I said to him, and I said,
I said, look, yeah, hold.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
On, don't do a man who sells diamonds and says,
hey man, you were just look at the silver. I
got here some thirds.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
What do I gotta dods? I gotta cut him? Hold on,
I said, I can make one of the second, I
can make the second, a third, my my second. Then
I have to be a second. I'll take the third,
and I'll give you a second. I'll be switching around.
But he's got imagine a first, right, I'm and if
(49:47):
I take it? And I took away one of the
offers I took away, so it was like J s
N in a second for all the other stuff I mentioned,
he was that's.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Not bad, that's not bad, that's not bad. He took
away that second. That that helps a lie because because
Kali is not a.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Scrub get, he's throwing me a first, a couple of thirds,
and a guy who's maybe worth a late second, early third.
And I'm throwing two seconds back in your turn.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
So I'm curious. So what I'm getting. So what you're
getting is a first, a second, and a third.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Right, I'm giving two seconds back, so my seconds kids.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
But I but I said one second, I took, I
adjusted all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I was just trying to j SN in a second
for three thirds and a first.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
That's about to say, why don't you simplify, Why don't
you just get j s N Mike, you take a
first and a second and and and khalil and call it.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
That's what I would have been interested that all that
wasn't directly offered. That that's a decent offer that made me.
That gives me pause.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Happens? Can I can I tell you what happens? See? Yeah,
another ABC about the clothes, about the clothes. All right,
here we go. Hearing you, seeing you saying makes it
better because now I know I can talk to you.
(51:24):
Another dynasty problem is some people are just you can't
make a deal with them. And maybe it text doesn't translate,
it doesn't translate. You know, some people come off in
a way that is off putting. And maybe they don't
mean to, maybe it's just something is lost in the translation.
(51:44):
But some people are just like all of it. They
come off as if they just want to win the deal.
They just want to win it, and they won't. They
can't be flexible at all. And so now that I
know you have some flexibility, people gonna make this deal.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I think it can happen. I think you can happen.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
I think the deal the time is just proposed. Listen,
let's go on record right now, let's agree make that
deal right now, let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
So just to clarify, I'm getting a first, a second
in collusion. Care for Jays, Yes, I do, like Jess,
I need a moment. I need a moment. See tune
in next week, whether or not, whether or not I
(52:34):
took the deal from Michael Holly, Thank you so much
for stopping in. Guys, this has been a blast. We
will tune in Monday, Michael Hall, thanks you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
That's a pro move right there. That's that's that's old school,
like like before before TV, those little serial books. Oh yeah,
what's gonna come out next week? To in wait wait,
not even tune in, wait next week in your in
your from the Pony Express will deliver the next chapter
(53:09):
of this novel.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
You're gonna have to tune in to find out because
I'm gonna need time to think about it. But Thomas,
thanks for jumping in and playing referee and giving some
context to Mike and Michael Hawley. Thank you so much
for joining us. I hope this will not be the
last time because the the the Shakespearean experience of betrayal
that you laid out for us, unmasking the friendly advice
(53:33):
of Michael Smith was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
It was a cathartic experience for me. I needed that cleansing.
I needed to share that I've been bottled. I had
to be bottled this thing up. So I'm glad you
guys listen and gave me some advice. But really, man,
I'm an addict. I'm an addict with Dynasty now. I
love this.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
I love you to the club. You are in good
company with both myself, Thomas and all of our listeners.
So thank you again for listening to another episode of
the Dynasty Exchange. We will be back and Hally, I'll
get on the phone with you after this. Let's see
if we can close.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Okay, we'll close this deal. Let's get this all right.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Okay,
At the very heart of this show is an idea,
and that idea is simply to be a show about
a league, and so we designed a league specifically for
this show. I'm joined again once again by Thomas Smith,
the number one Smith in my power rankings, currently in
the league and trade partners. And finally, after many technical difficulties, conspiracies,
(00:33):
all sorts of adversity, the decorated journalist mister Michael Howley
a career that the accolades are longer than the roster
of my team is joining us. Most important, however, Michael Holly,
you are a member of the Dynasty Exchange. Thank you
so much for being here, and thank you so much
for being a part of our league. You've already brought
(00:54):
a lot to the table. But I want to just
go to you right away. What's been your first impression?
This is your first year playing Dynasty. You covered the
Patriots for twenty years plus in Boston. In fact, you
were on the documentary The Dynasty, which, by the way,
eight point four on IMDb. I was just checking that out.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Eight point four. Huh yeah, yeah, a lot of them,
and I bet you nobody, nobody from the Patriots voted
because a lot of the Patriots, A lot of those
old Patriots were disappointed by it because in the Dynasty,
if you can believe it, they kind of skipped over
two super Bowls. It just.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yet six. When you have six, you got to make time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, twenty one game win street, two super Bowls,
you know, back to back, fourteen and two seasons. Just
skipped it over, just skipped.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
It a Lott's that's a different level of success. But
the question I have, I mean, Thomas and I talked
about it last episode. You were supposed to join us.
We have got to hear about a couple of trades
that went down, and you're alleging a conspiracy. We want
to get to that, but before we do, before we do,
(02:05):
I just want to know you follow the Patriots for forever.
You're connected to the Dynasty. What lessons are you taking
into building your roster as a first time owner in
the Dynasty exchange?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, there's some carryover. First of all, good to be here,
Good to be here with you. Two brothers, especially my
younger brother here, Thomas Smith, who was actually a family member.
It's a real family like he was. He didn't betray
me like his brother did. We'll get to that, Okay, Okay, Now,
(02:38):
happy to be here, and I'm happy to be in
the league too. Although they're you know, the carryover. I
think it's there are certain things you can bring to
it that that relate to the NFL and others that
just if you're thinking like a general manager, you just
gotta mess yourself up. Like there's salary cap. There's a
(03:01):
salary cap in football, and there are certain players you know,
you just can't get in the NFL. It's just not
going to happen. And you're not going to be able
to get as many draft picks, as much as much
capital as you want. Like somebody, somebody among us here.
I'm not going to say any names. Somebody probably has
like twenty first round picks and like all the quarterbacks
(03:24):
in the league. And and when I asked, when I
asked about you, Josh, I was like, what's up? What
does Josh dude? And the answer I got was, he's
the bank, He's the goal Peter Bank. Okay, you can't
it me the bank. So if you go to the bank,
(03:45):
you got to sit down and you just got to
make sure if you want to get you know, you
want to get that loan. You's got to make sure
you come correct. I'm talking to Josh. I mean, how
many first round picks you have for twenty.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Five twenty five? I have seven, I think, and then
I think I have seven and twenty six. I'm trying
to add to it. I'm little disappointed, a little disappointed,
and we have been able to interest rates have been high.
People aren't taking out loans right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Now, damn. And I'll be like almost like you know what,
I'll eat some beans and romen noodles a couple of
years because I just can't deal with this. I'll just
have to Dave Ramsey.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Dave Ramsey would be proud eat the beans, ramen noodles,
stay away from the bank.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But here's the answer the question, though, Here's what the
carryover is. I think you can't overthink this thing. You
can't overthink it. So one thing I've learned in my
short time here in the league is just get get
good players. Don't get role players like in the NFL,
(04:48):
you would get a role player like I say, you
got hey, I got my ex receiver, I got my
why you know, I need a slide all that kind
of stuff. That's that's what real NFL team.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Du Yeah, this guy on special teams.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, the area I do not believe in that. Just
get good players and figure it out. And so once
you start drafting for roles and making uh like little
niche players for certain positions, especially if you're drafting high,
I mean obviously you can do that, you know, tenth
round in the startup draft, twelfth round and startup draft,
(05:25):
you know, developmental guy and put a guy on your
taxi squad. But you know this last draft, I had three,
I had ten, I had number twenty, so you know,
two o four. Hey, I'm just trying to get good players.
And so yeah, I thought at number ten I never
(05:46):
thought i'd have I wasn't even thinking about Rock Bowers.
So Rock Bowers was there at ten? Uh he lay?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, no, for sure he fell to you there.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Just take a highly ready player instead of okay, well
it's tight end and you know, I'm not sure I
need a tight end here. No, take the good player.
So it's just that's the philosophy for me. It's just
as build as many or get as many good players
as you can on your roster, and it will it
will either work out for you or it will create value.
(06:22):
So when you talk to somebody like Thomas or Josh
and you and it's time to make a deal, you
have some attractive pieces on that roster that people want.
So yeah, I mean that's that's the number one thing,
and that's That's one of the conversations Bill Belichick had
with Jimmy Johnson back in the day where Jimmy had
(06:44):
had finished coaching Belichick had just started with the Patriots.
Jimmy Johnson was like, hey, man, this is what you
need to do every draft started. Start from the back
of it, Like you really have to know the draft
from the back all the way up to the front.
Don't go top down, go bottom up. So if you
need to trade down, you know what you're trading down for.
(07:07):
If you need to trade up, you have done your
homework so you know the entire draft. And then after
you study the entire draft, you got to make a
realistic list. In Belichick's case, he told him, I think
he's like, make a realistic, realistic list, like twenty two
players that you'd like to have on your team that
you think you can get in the draft. Twenty two
(07:29):
and then if you have enough capital, see how many
of those twenty two that you can put your team
in position to get So I look at it that
way too. I mean, and our rookie draft. I was
getting excited, not as excited as Thomas, who was like
(07:50):
dealing like crazy, But in the fourth round I was
having a great I thought the fourth round was more
exciting than the first two rounds because I saw some
good play was there. I'd made my list. I'm like,
this guy's selling the board, and people were like DM
and me, Hey, you want to do you want to
move out?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Hell no, hell no, I'm not moving out.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
We had we had like five Thomas, how many transactions
did you complete alone in the fourth round? I was
making jokes because I had traded out of this draft.
I was jealous. People were moving all sorts of different
assets to go get their last round sleeper. It's just
the sign of a healthy league. But Thomas, how many
do you do you remember offhand? Like how many moves
you made towards the end of that draft.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
It was so many, I can't even remember, but I
remember like between the third and the fourth round, I
would say I did about seven, yeah, seven transactions like
moving up to get a pick, or like just buying
a pick straight up from somebody for future capital or whatever.
But you know, like, I, man, look.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
The way I see it, I kind of see it
like how highly sees it. Man, One man's trash is
another man's treasure. Right, So they got a lot of
times people just like, oh, I just want first round picks.
I just want second round picks.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You can have all the first and second round picks
and they could still bust. I got a lot of
first round picks that bust. But if you do your
homework and you look at these guys with like, Okay,
this guy has potential and he has an open and
like Javon Baker going and I paid.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Jeremy who's in the league.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think I used future capital to get up to
three to oh one in the sixteen team league as
the thirty third pick, and I got Javon Baker. Not
because I'm like, oh my god, I have to have
another player to start my lineup. No, it's because that's
a dart throw that I'm willing to invest in. He
has a path to greatness, he has people seem to
(09:49):
People seem to think that he can be an alpha receiver.
So I want to take a chance on that guy.
So I'm like Mike, I was like wheeling and dealing
and third and fourth round was just fun.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, and and a lot of it A lot of
it too is some of it is based on your
homework and some of it is just feel or hey,
certain things that you like. There are guys in so
I can tell you all the players I like, but
I can I can also tell you players like, Nah,
I don't trust that guy. Yeah, I don't trust.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Is there a name that comes to mind for you
right away?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Trust your breakout?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
What? What?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Literally? What?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And so the guys I give a lot of love,
the guys who who have produced in college from the
jump and it's just like steady, like from day one.
So I think a guy he didn't get a lot
of love in our league nor in the NFL. I
love Troy Franklin. I love Troy Franklin. I can't. I
(10:53):
can't believe you went in the fourth round. I mean,
I think I think Troy Franklin is going to be
a star. Maybe not in year one, I think he'll
be a star in the league. So, but he's produced.
If you look at him in Oregon. Those numbers are
always good, and you know, I really went back and
forth over Worthy, but he was the same way at Texians.
(11:14):
You know, just really produced as a guy who's undersized,
but the production just tells you he can ball. Yeah.
I went back and forth between Worthy and Brock Bowers
for that that number ten pick, But ultimately I was
thinking that I think Bowers is a higher, higher ceiling
prospect than Worthy, even though I know, even though I
(11:36):
like worthy situation.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well. Also, we played a tight end premium league, so
that's a savvy move. Go get the highest. You know,
there's going to be a very small number of tight
ends that are going to be able to produce twelve
plus Fantasy points the game, even in the premium league.
So I think you got the premium position. That was
a good tiebreaker to take love your Troy Franklin love.
He's quickly becoming a my guy because he's with Bo Nicks,
(11:59):
who played with the College. That's another you know, if
you're gonna be a fourth round pick, you might as
well go to the guy that like loves you and
you guys produced together. But you know, Michael, you came
off so articulate. It's clear why you succeeded in the
in the sports industry. But I have to say, and
I have to ask the question, how then, with all
the strategic mind that you just showcased, did tragedy befall you?
(12:21):
Because I remember you saying at this, keep in mind
the startup Draft. We do a lottery to pick our spot,
and when you pick your spot in the startup draft,
you are in turn picking your rookie, your rookie startup spot.
Because we do the inverted drafts, you get your rookie
picks completely inverted. You picked the one fifteen to get
the one oh two specifically because you are an Ohio
(12:42):
State fan and you love Marvin Harrison Junior. Is that that?
That's the report I was told? Oh, I h that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I listen, man, you know why I picked the one
You know why I picked the one fifteen, or I
mean you know you know why I yeah, I mean, yeah,
you know why I did that because of Michael Smith.
Now I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. I'm
tell you the whole sad story. Now Michael Smith, as
(13:16):
Thomas knows, Michael Smith has been my best friend for now.
Oh my god, twenty years longer than twenty years. Twenty
years twenty years longer. Like we met in nineteen ninety nine,
so twenty five years. We hit it off. We hit
(13:38):
it off instantly, instantly they won. He's like they won,
like his I introduced him to his wife, his daughter,
my goddaughter. I mean, like, Thomas, like my brother. Like
it's been like that, like we it's family, right, Thomas
like real, No, it's real talk. That's real talk. Hey,
(14:00):
come on, So I trust I trust. I trusted. I
trusted Michael Smith. So Smith was telling me, hey, may
I get in this league? This league is great designs league,
And honestly, I was not into it. I was busy.
(14:20):
I'm like, man, what's this stuff you're talking about. I
don't even get it. What are you talking about? Hey? Hey,
give me sign up? He answer this poll, this poll
in the league. Hey man, you haven't long done in
a while. I'm like, okay, okay, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. He said,
hey man, I'm going to do start off draft. This
is what you should do. So he told me about
the draft position. I had no idea. So, wow, you're
saying I did it because of Marvin Harrison. I did
(14:42):
it because I got advice from Michael.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Smith, who you've known for twenty years, twenty five twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Five, twenty five years, twenty five years. That's making on
my wedding. Okay, all that, all that, So man, I'm thinking, Okay,
he's just gonna guide me through this. He's guiding me
through now. As I as I think about the story,
I do have to take some responsibility. As I think
(15:11):
about it, I'm like, okay, what you know, what what
is my role in this? Okay? I probably did something
that was little underhand too, all right? So Smith says, hey, man,
I hear that Keith. That would be deuce brat for
league league purposes who have all the time. Hey, Keith
(15:33):
loves Jade and Daniel. He's gonna take Jade and Daniels
at three, he's gonna. So you should make a deal
with Keith. Hey, man, you can get some extra capital.
You ain't gonna take Jadon Daniels. Nope, I'm not taking
Jadon Daniels. Don't want them, but Keith does. Hey, let's
make a deal, so Keith, you know, I get an
(15:54):
extra second. It's good, Hey, good doing business with you.
Then before the draft, like a couple days before the draft,
he says, hey, who are you taking?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
You?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I'm not taking who you taking? All right? Okay, okay,
So this is all a three This is a three
man weave. You see where I'm going. It's a three
man weave.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Michael Keith. Just to clarify, Keith asked you that or
was that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Mike? A couple of days before the draft? Rookie draft?
Who are you taking? What are you thinking? At number three? Hey, look,
I made a deal with you. You you stay over
there with your LSU people. Keith is from New He's
a New Orleans guy. You stay over there with Jaydeon Daniels.
(16:40):
I'll stay with Marvin Harrison. Michael Smith has number four.
We'll leave him out of it. Okay, Jeremy's gonna take
Jeremy lum Blair's gonna take Caleb Williams at one if
he doesn't take Caleb Williams at one. I'm taking Caleb
Williams at three over Marvin Harrison, but I know he's
gonna take Caleb. So Caleb at one, Jade Daniels at two,
(17:04):
and Marvin Harrison, my homeboy Ohio State at three. I'm
feeling good day of the draft. Okay, we start the
draft a week early because our draft was scheduled commissioner
on Mother's Day weekend. Now, ain't not listen. That's just
not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
My son's only one years old. I'm a rookie when
it comes for the Mother's Day celebration. Okay, Now, I
did make a great short rip I pulled up. I
will admit, but but.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, that on me. That's on me.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's on me. That's my hand in the story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Credit to you. You move it up, you move up
the drafted, you move up a week. I'm ready to go.
I was like, oh my god, I had done my
drafts with Marvin Hare. I mocked it out everybody else.
I said, okay, I did the Okay, I'm gonna manually
put him here, Caleb here because the computer got it wrong.
So so no, we're gonna do it this way. I
(17:54):
know Caleb's going first. I know Jadon and Daniel's going second.
I know who's going third. I know how Michael Smith thinks.
So I got him at you know four. I said,
he's gonna take Neighbors, he's gonna take a Doomsday, and
he's probably gonna take Rock Vowers too, he might make
a trade for a quarterback. I'm doing all these calculations,
and then it hit me. It hit me. I said,
(18:16):
what if this in the back of my mindset, what
if Mike makes a deal with Keith. But then I
just let that go. I said, I let that go.
That wouldn't happen. That wouldn't happen because he wouldn't do
that to me, Like neither guy would do that to me.
Because because Keith said to me before the draft, and
(18:37):
he was asking who I was gonna take. Keith said, hey, man,
you can tell me. I said, I can't tell you
who I'm taking. He said, you can tell me. We've
covered super Bowls together. Oh like yeah, okay, now I
can trust you because we've been to super bowls together.
All right, day of the draft, Fellas, My son got
two sons, my younger son, he's got a play. He
(19:00):
was He was participating in some play called the Phantom
Tollbooth basically, you know, great play. So he had the
he was in it. The opening night of the play
was Friday, so I saw that opening night. Great Saturday
play starts in seven thirty Eastern time, so right around
(19:21):
and he was already, he was in, he was on
the stage. I went, I went back to back night,
so saw opening night with the whole family. Second night.
I said, look, I'll represent the family. I got my
boys in a play. I'm going back to.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Back being a good dad.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, seven point thirty plays starting. I'm looking at the phone.
I see Michael Smith trains up to number two and
drafts Marvin Harrison. Now the play's going on. I'm supposed
to be inside watching the play. I call up Mike.
(19:56):
I said, fuck you fu, I can't believe you did
this to me. Please. Oh oh wait, what what do
you mean? What do you mean? Everybody knew, everybody like,
come on, like, oh, it's Keith not supposed to trade
(20:17):
number two. I said, damn right, he's not supposed to.
It's an inside deal. It's supposed to be all done.
He was supposed to stay in his lane, you were
supposed to stay in yours. But he set the and
I told him, I said, you set the whole thing up,
You set it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
All up, you set the trade back.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, And he said, well you could have called you
could have called Keith. And I said no, no, because I
don't want to do that I don't want to play
that game we had. We had an arrangement. I thought, uh,
and the arrangement blew up. But I did see it
coming because Keith and you guys know this and let
(20:56):
the audience know. Keith was on the clock for about
three hours mm hm at number two, I said, oh shit,
it's going down. And I knew it was because because
because Smith said, oh, hey, the Keith pick. Yet he
called me like like in the beginning when Keith was on,
(21:17):
like first fifteen minutes, Keith is on the clock. The
Keith pick. Yet he said no, he said, I called him.
I woke him up. He was asleep. I told him
to pick. I'm gonna call him back. Then it got
real quiet.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Okay. So so so, just to just to clarify, the
betrayal is twofold one. It's the it's the trade itself.
When it seemed it's Mike set up the trade for
you to move back as a friend to three right number.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Two, easy way.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
He's he's been your advisor since day one in the league.
He's the one that introduced you and you've shared it's
terrible trade.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I want to trade knowledge. Hey, hey you so what
do you think here, Hey, hey man, I think you
should take a quarterback here and yeah, you know, and
I told him by the way we made up. And
I don't want to get into all this because once
again my nafta. I made a big trade with him,
really stupid trade where I gave him everything for CJ. Strove.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
We covered that in the show. Actually, I was very
impressed that it was reversed. I gave I gave Mike
crap for reversing it in good faith.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I said, dude, yeah, yeah, we reversed the trade. It
was just but he but he regretted it too because
he missed CJ. Stroud And I think he was looking
at the quarterback landscape, okay, and I gave up a
bunch for CJ. Stroud. So anyway, he said, you're not
going to trade three, are you? I said, no, I'm
not going to trade it, right, so an assurance, a
(22:48):
verbal commitment that I'm not going to trade number three.
When he gave it back to me, I said, but
I will tell you this is not smart on my part.
I said, I will tell you. I don't want you
be surprised on the clock. Then I'm gonna take Marvin.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Harris Mmm, you tips the pick too much total, But
it's not tipping the pick to the league.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It's to my best friend of twenty five years. I
don't want to set you up like that. I don't
want you to be surprised, and I'm going to tell
you I'm just gonna keep it real with.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Good faith. Ah Man question for you and to give
the listeners some context so I know that I know
the other end of this story. Did Mike portray you?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Am I proud of him for doing it in some
as a commissioner who promotes competition and parody within the rules. Fantastic.
The only thing then, and you're reacting to it exactly
as you should, Holly. You should absolutely drag his character
through the mud. Yes, because it is a betrayal of
epic proportions. But one if I'm you and that happens
(23:55):
to me at three, guess who I'm taking this out
on the accomplice to the party. I am drafting Jayden Daniels,
and I'm saying you come, you come and get you
want to play games and play hostage with my heart,
ain't no problem. I'm taking yours too, and I'm getting
the first with it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
See Mike said that Thomas Thomas. Mike said that to
me after when I was yelling at him before the play. Now,
I was four minutes late to the Phantom Tobo, but
I didn't miss my son's Okay. I was four minutes
late tonight too, on time for night one, but pissed
off for night two. Other dance are in there, like
(24:34):
good job, but yes, yes, and I'm like this, mother,
I can't did this. I was able to cal him
down and then intermission I called him back an intermission.
I was like another fig I thought of this, though
I did think of it. I said, look, I can
(24:55):
play this game with Keith. I can sit here and
take Jayde and Daniels. But Frank, this is, you know,
just the way I look at it. I think Drake
May is much better than Jadie Dames. I think Drake
May is gonna be a better pro than Jade and Daniels.
I just I just like him more so, I said,
I'm not gonna play this game. I don't want to extra.
(25:16):
I don't want to talk to Keith, I don't want
to talk to Mike. I'm not making a trade with them. Hey,
it's not gonna I don't trust them anymore. So whatever,
I'm gonna draft my board. So as the deception was
was going down, I knew it was coming. I said,
a right. So if I'm on the board, Marvin Harrison
is gone, what am I gonna do? I'm definitely not
gonna trade out because my team needs a lot of help.
(25:39):
I got a lot of holes. I'm gonna take a quarterback.
I just traded for Bryce Young for number twelve, and
so I had three ten twelve. I traded twelve for
Bryce Young, and I picked up Drake May and felt
pretty and my quarterback room improved. Matically.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, my, once again, I think you could have still
had Drake May. You just take Jade and Daniels first
and then trade back. Trade him back, Drake, you know,
just squeezing for an extra pick. You didn't want to.
You didn't want to hear his his traitorous voice. I
don't want I want you guys covered super Bowls together.
I get it. I respect. Yeah, No, I like it.
(26:24):
I think also you mentioned it knowing the other side.
Mike was was doing his own mock drafts, and he
was trying to figure out who everyone was taking to
every pick. It looked like based on roster construction coming
out of the startup Draft that you were going to
have to take quarterback in the rookie draft no matter what.
So Marvin Harrison would be off your board. But you
had a very savvy trade. I applaud you for it.
(26:46):
You'd built up some extra capital and you went and
got Bryce Young right before the draft started. And that's
when I knew. I was like, I think Holly just
outflanked Mike. I think Holly now has young qbs because
you who did you take in the startup draft. I'm
trying to remember you had Aaron Rodgers. Aaron, Yes, Aaron Rodgers,
(27:06):
but then you also had Bryce Young. He had two
qbs to start the year in a sixteen team league.
That's hard to do. I was trying to get a
deal done with you for like a Russell Wilson or
a Daniel Jones.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Can you tell people what you were what the asking
price is for Russell Wilson? I just want I want
people to I just.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Maybe I believe it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Educated.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, So in a sixteen team league where injuries are
going to be prevalent, I was interested in dealing Russ
to you, along with other picks to get a first.
I think it's more than reasonable.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What on the picks, probably.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
A couple thirds or maybe a single second depending on
the year. It's more than fair.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But you said you need two quarterbacks? Okay, yeah, whatever.
Can you guarantee that Russell Wilson be the starting quarterback
for the Steelers on October fifteenth?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Can you guarantee Drake may will be for the Patriots? No?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
But I don't need him to be. I know Aaron
Rodgers will be unless he gets hurt. That I know,
And I know Bryce Young will be because it's the
number one pick they committed to.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well, there you go, and and I applaud the move.
I thought it was objectively much better trade for you
to do to go get Bryce Young by someone who
was drafted above C. J. Stroud last year. I applaud
the move. I think Mike was mad you made a
move without his advice and that's why he pulled out
the dagger. That's my theory, Thomas. You know your brother
is that like Mike? Is that really what happened?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Part of me wants to just stay out of this
because I you know, conflict of interest and all.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Of that family uh family.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But I know for a fact.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
He I mean he loves Marvin Harrison, he does not
as much as Holly because I don't know if anybody,
because I went to LSU like if I had a
chance in hell of getting elite neighbors. I exhausted every
single option to try to get him. Yeah, and it
didn't work out. But that's fine. You live, You live
and fight another day and you deal with the team
(29:06):
you got. But I know he loves Marvin Harrison, but
I know he got to think for receivers in gym,
so he wasn't sold if I'm speaking for him, but
I don't think he was sold on any of those quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's side of Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So he wanted the receivers in this class more than
he wanted a friend. And I think that's where it
comes down to.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
And then let me tell you how you tried to
emotionally manipulate me too when I'm when I'm calling you.
When I'm calling, he said, is this is this real?
You real mad? Or you just you know, just you're
just doing this? I said, no, No, I'm pissed off, man,
I'm really pissed, Like, hey, man, I don't want this
to end the friendship like shot the fun. You want
(30:00):
me to feel sorry for you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You're the victim that Mike, Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
That's That's the type of friendships I think we all
want to have where you could just absolutely cuss someone
out one moment and be like, our relationship isn't changing
obviously about this. I'm just as a competitor, screw you.
I'm going home.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
But no, but now I know I will not go
to him. I will not go to him for advice.
This was a I do want to I hesitate to
say this. I do want to thank him for that experience,
because they're no friends. There are no friends in the
league as you're doing business. There's no brotherhood everybody. I
(30:40):
think it was a apprentice who said in the chat,
you know, a week ago, he said, I wouldn't trust
nan one of y'all. I wouldn't trust and nobody. As
if I'm on my deathbed, you still be trying to
get draft picks from me.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So I would send flowers with the trade offer. I'd
be like, I am so so sorry for your loss
and what you're going through, and I would hate for
you to leave this life without the opportunity to maximalize
your value. Set up your descendants for success, give them
(31:16):
a team that's going to compete right away. I'll take
care of the picks for you.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I want to hear. I want to hear from both
of you, because, first of all, this is a fantastic story. Holly,
thank you for hopping on and telling it to it.
But that was aw I just I want to create
a bit of a time capsule for listeners because they're
going to be following the league throughout the year. Thomas,
right now, I feel you drafted a great team. We
just did our schedule. We completely reorganize our schedule, the divisions,
(31:43):
the whole nine. Mike had to make sure it was perfect.
Spend all day working on it. You know who you're playing,
you know what your team mostly looks like. Thomas, what's
your record? Where do you finish? Do you make what's
the team's goal? For your team? And Holly, I want
to hear yours as well. Where do you guys feel
your team's finished. It's like the opening season press conference.
What should fan expecting from Thomas Smith's team and from
Michael hall Is team Thomas will start with you.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I would say that my team is I'm gonna
I'm gonna be in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm gonna be in the hunt.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I feel that deep in my heart that I have
enough to do that. I will say that I don't
feel like I'm gonna be as dominant as I was
coming out of the startup drafts because I've liquidated a
couple of my assets from Brandon.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Ik to Jayden Reid or whatever.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
But I got in Djoku at tight end as the
tight end premium, So I feel like some of it
some of it is, you know, I recouped a little
bit of the firepower in some ways. But if you
look at my bench, I am trying to do just
like you, Josh are taking the road less traveled and
(32:47):
saying I'm going to put my picks in the future
and I'm going to dominate that way. My my goal.
Nobody in our league has a bench like I do.
I got some good rookies with upside, I got starters
on my bench, and I look around and there's nobody there.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So I will be the bank.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
When these injuries start taking place, because it is a
sixteen team lead and they're gonna be some injuries, and
they're gonna be some people who are needy for players.
And when they have other people who are competing who
don't have the depth that I do, who they gonna
come talk to me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So it's enough.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's a little bit of a longer play with some
of this stuff, but I do believe that my depth
will come into play and it will allow me to
even be better as the season goes on.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So late playoff push, you're saying you're the Packers of
last season. I love it. Holly, what do we got
coming from? By the way, what's the team name? Thomas?
Cause I want to hear I want to hear Holly's branding.
It feels like, I mean, Holly could sell ice to
an Eskimo. I can already like just talking to him,
I'm like enthralled. So but Thomas, what's the team name?
How should people recognize your team?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Action?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Jackson Jackson RP Call Weathers had to do it for you, man,
from that's my guy.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Act Johnson's doing eight and six making playoffs before.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Before I tell you about my team, I did text
and because I couldn't talk to him, but I did
text Mike U during the draft after the portrayal, post betrayal,
and this is like second and third round. I was like,
Thomas is killing it right now, Like you had a
stretch in the draft. I want to think, So, who
(34:31):
was your second you had? You have one who's your
last second round pick? Multiple second rounders? Yeah, this is
my this is who I drafted.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Initially, I had Jermaine Burton, Roman Wilson, uh Javon Baker
I did. I went and got Tyrone, Tracy Malik Washington
run there.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I was just like, it was just hit. It was
hit at all players that I had, you know, I
had on my board. I was like, oh, because that Burton.
I thought Burton was a really great pick. I thought
he would be there. A lot of people weren't talking
about him. I just could. I still can't believe that
he fell as far as he did. Like Burton, and
(35:12):
it was a third round pick, I thought that was
a little too low.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Already he had great spot.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So yeah, I thought you did really well, especially that
second and third rounds. Just really starting to crush it.
So my team available on Netflix and to b which
is a reference to an incredible interview Kat Williams did
with Shannon Sharp where he just roasted everybody, everybody and
(35:42):
just it was so hilarious. I just can't every now
and then I go back and watch an excerpt from
it because it's just so outrageous, uh and hilarious. So
so my team is available on Netflix and to be,
and I feel like it's to be. The team is
going to be a reflection of reflection of my Dynasty
(36:04):
experience so far. So I feel like I had no
idea what I was doing in the startup Draft. So
I was like, yeah, i'll get a Q. I didn't
get the importance of two quarterbacks. Frankly, I didn't get it.
So I didn't draft a quarterback. I only drafted one
starting quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, and that was like in the
(36:25):
sixth or seventh round. I was like, oh, whatever, thinking
like one of those NFL teams of how I'll build
up the rest of the roster and I'll just put
a quarterback in there. It doesn't work like that. You
don't have two quarterbacks. You can't compete, period. And I
didn't get it at the time. So I really screwed
up the startup Draft. I felt like I had a
(36:46):
good rookie draft, and so the team in a lot
of ways, the moves that I'm making now, I'm making
corrective moves to kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I love the awareness there. That's so big for you
to be like, hey, within a couple of weeks, I
realized I had to pivot and I wasn't doing it
the right way. Yeah, so many owners have had this
has been the plan all along, and I'm like, no,
it's not.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
If you're getting killed, admit it. You're like, hey, I'm
not doing good. Now I'm doing great. Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Lot of it's a lot of rewiring. So I would
think the team will be competitive. I would be thrilled
if the team makes the playoffs. I don't think it's
quite a playoff team, but I think it's a team
that might be able to sting you every now and then,
especially with some of the ask questions. So it's a
primarily young team. So Bryce Young. If Bryce Young can
(37:36):
go from ten touchdown passes to twenty, okay, if Aaron
Rodgers can play more than.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Four snaps, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
All Right, I'm on Rack continues to do his thing.
Whose brock Bower is gonna be you know it's it's
hard sometimes for rookie tight ends. Am I going to
hit any of these? You know, third or fourth round
picks gonna turn out to be good players? Well, Ady
Mitchell turned out to be a good player. I pissed
off Adie Mitchell. Will he be good for Indianapolis? So
(38:06):
it's just like a lot of questions. So I think
some weeks it'll look pretty good. In some weeks, you
just trying not to get blown out. I know what
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I think, go ahead, Thomas, I'm gonna try to plug
of trade in there. I'll let you do this with
Daniel Jones, Michael Michael, with Daniel Jones. I think your
roster could be playoffs right now. I don't want you
to know on this show and say that you're not
making playoffs and you're one. You have Aaron Rodgers is
about to have an MVP season, redeem the Jets. It's
gonna be great. I don't want you to miss that train.
(38:38):
A couple firsts Russell Wilson and Daniel Jones. I'll throw
them both in package deal just for you to help
heal the wound from Michael. From Michael Smith.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
This man is the epitome of ABC always be closing
every every time I've been on this show.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
He's trying to just draw a trade off of man,
he's just.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Trying to get picks from me. Whatever you can get.
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
But I was about to say about you, Mike is
you know I think also you have to have an
awareness and dynasty that I've learned and you know, since
I started, because it was a learning curve for me too.
But you have to have awareness of like where players
are going. Like you can't just say, oh, I gotta
(39:22):
have this guy because he caught eighty balls for twelve
hundred yards last year, and I need all my guys
to have that kind of status. You have to find
people who you think are going to excel, are going
to take the next step. And you got to try
to like pick your guys and figure out exactly who
you think is worthy of the picks that you don't
(39:45):
really want, Like like you picked Aaron Rodgers with like
night probably tenth round or whatever. There's a damn good
chance Aaron Rodgers could throw for thirty.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Touchdowns this year. If you say yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And then and then you gotta then you do have
a playoff team.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, you know what I mean. And it's and it's funny,
like you find out what other guys think of your
of your players because you you wind up valuing guys
for the exact reason you said, Thomas, Hey, I think
this guy is on the come up. I love them
so for for me, that guy on my roster is
Khalil Shakir blah. All right.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I'm a Shakir fan too, dang it, I'm a fan.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So I was trying to make a deal with somebody
in the league. I'm not going to say who it was.
I was trying to make a deal, a pretty pretty
bold deal. As a matter of fact. I say, you
know what this is, let's just go in there, let's go,
let's go for it. And I put Shakir in there.
I'm thinking this is a pretty fair offer. And the
message back to me was, you know, a couple of
(40:49):
these receivers that you have presented here are irrelevant. I
was like, damn, how could you say that about my son?
H But we all value we all have guys that
we value differently, which leads us to Jackson Smith and
(41:09):
Jigba Job.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You brought it up.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, who I've been trying to I thought we were
going to have a deal. So I picked up a trade,
made a deal with Thomas. So got a first round pick,
he got David and Djoko. Great for him, great for me.
I thought it was a very fair trade. It was easy.
It was easy trading with you, Thomas. We had a
(41:33):
great communication. All right, fine, what do you want? Quick?
All right? So then I had this first round pick.
And as soon as that trade was official, for about
thirty four seconds, I get a DM from Josh who says,
what do you want for that first round pick? The
bank always and I said to him more first round picks?
(41:57):
What I want for this first round pick? More first
round pick? That's right. So we start talking. I said, look,
I like on your roster. I like JSN and I
like George Pickens. Pickens it's his everything, that's what you say.
He loves Pickings.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I'm irrational about picks.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Fine, I don't really want Pickens. I want js in
not just because of Ohio state, but because of what
we talked about. I think it's coming. It's coming. Maybe
if it might not be twenty four, might be twenty five,
I don't know. So I think one first round pick
is very reasonable one first round pick. Josh uh is
(42:39):
insisting on two first round picks in a package, but
two first round picks must be a part of it.
And I said, look, I understand. I feel like he's
more than one, but he's less than two, so it's
somewhere in there. But two is two. I feel like
(43:00):
it's too much.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You gotta understand the going rate. I mean, Holly. In
my day job, I'm all about providing value to my clients, right.
I would be remiss if I was ever look at
a property. I'm in real estate. If I was ever
to look at a property for my clients and they
were like, hey, we want to make an offer on
this home. What are the comps going for? You know
what I'm talking about? If I I mean I.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I said, how many yards you have last year? Six
hundred something, six hundred two.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
But we just talked about how you have to project
a player taking the next step. Tyler Lockett's is on
the wrong side of thirty. We all believe in the
prospect long term. You're trying to trade for him, so
you believe in it. Here's what I'm saying. I took
JSN in the startup draft in the fourth round in
front of Bryce Young. Now, mind you, I understand QB
scarcey is a real thing, and I know Bryce Young.
(43:49):
If someone believes in a QB is always going to
get that premium. So I'm not saying that in a
vacuum a first plus isn't a fair market value. But
I'm not actively looking to get rid of Jasn because
I need capital. If I can make a profit to
let go of a young player who would still fit
a timeline of the bank, it would have to look
(44:10):
like two firsts. So that's the perspective. That's where the
comps come from. You paid two first for Bryce Young,
if I'm correct, Is that something close to that value?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
No? No, one. First, I have to go it was
it was number twelve, it was twelve and something else,
But it wasn't two first.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
You paid one, twelve and a twenty five first.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I think.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I think if you paid two first for Rice.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I stand corrected. That's right, I did. I did.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Okay, But that's the comp that's yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
You can't do that. You can't say a comp a quarterback.
This is a quarterback premium. Okay. Quarterbacks are hard to find.
You cannot compare. You can't say just because you took
JSN before quarterback, you can't. He's a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, but he went around a similar place. And so Michael,
let me, let me, let me save us both time here.
I've put some thought on this for you, Okay, put
some thought. You want JSN, you want to you want
to be a playoff team in twenty twenty four, because
I think JSN is going to break out and be good,
not just this year, but in years to come. I'm
not talking about a fifteen hundred yard season, but one
thousand yards, eighty five catches, maybe six touchdowns. I think
(45:24):
it could totally happen. Been doing my status. You still
would need a QB if I was to come, because
you got two young qbs right now. My question is
what would I have to include with JSN to come
get a Bryce young or to come get a drink player.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Let's goal because I will.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Throw in I will throw in Russ so that you
have a third QB.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I don't want Russ. Okay, he can score your points.
I don't want Russ.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Russ is do you want JSN?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
You made a beautiful argument. I have to say it
was a beautiful argument, worthy of the great debaters, like Denzel's,
like he should have been in the movie. Okay, you
made a beautiful argument for a player on the rise,
and then you turn around and offer me a descending
asset in Russell Wilson.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
You have needs your own argument. No, no, no, I'm not.
Russ is not part of the trade. Russ is the
the box of chocolate turtles appreciation to do business. Yeah, okay, fair, So.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
You mentioned what would it take to get a Bryce Young.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Or Drake May because those are two young, young pieces
that could still fit my timeline. Drake May might be
your song. I'm just curious. We're just checking prices right now.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Okay, yeah, Well, if if JSN is a couple of
first rounders, Drake May is probably two and a half
to three, right, they'd pick. That's fair, young guy, you know,
being you won't be twenty two until August. He's actually
he's even older than jasm is only like what twenty one,
(47:04):
He's like one of the younger He was twenty when
he came out. I wasn't. But I'm not really thinking.
I'm not really thinking in those terms. I want to
know from Thomas Neutral party. It's two first round picks
for JSN fair or not not fair.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
There's what someone's willing to pay.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, actually, actually, let me
take that back.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
It depends on the year.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
If we're talking next year, it's unfair.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
If we're talking maybe twenty five, the twenty six or
twenty seven, Yes, but I think there needs to.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Be a gap filler.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
So maybe, like I don't know if there's a second
round or third round or two thirds or something that
needs to be put with that.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh but yes, I think he could.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
I think two first rounds and offered that I offered
you in.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Different years, in different years other than just next year.
Is okay? We got receipts. Hey do we let's go
over our history. Now you got it? Can you call
it up here?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Let me see pull it up? Pull it up right now?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
This is this is riveted a man for you so
many How about the trade? How about the trade? Last trade?
I offered him? He reject He rejected so much. I
offered him this is rejected. Okay, yes, all right, No
I don't like that one that goes.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
No, no, no, yeah, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Some time here go twenty twenty five first round pick.
All right, twenty twenty five third round pick, twenty twenty
five third round pick. So that's one first two thirds
and Khalil Shakir.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
For j s N.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
And two second rounds.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
You just on two second rounds? What are you talking about.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
The second round? And I said to him, and I said,
I said, look, yeah, hold.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
On, don't do a man who sells diamonds and says,
hey man, you were just look at the silver. I
got here some thirds.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
What do I gotta dods? I gotta cut him? Hold on,
I said, I can make one of the second, I
can make the second, a third, my my second. Then
I have to be a second. I'll take the third,
and I'll give you a second. I'll be switching around.
But he's got imagine a first, right, I'm and if
(49:47):
I take it? And I took away one of the
offers I took away, so it was like J s
N in a second for all the other stuff I mentioned,
he was that's.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Not bad, that's not bad, that's not bad. He took
away that second. That that helps a lie because because
Kali is not a.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Scrub get, he's throwing me a first, a couple of thirds,
and a guy who's maybe worth a late second, early third.
And I'm throwing two seconds back in your turn.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
So I'm curious. So what I'm getting. So what you're
getting is a first, a second, and a third.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Right, I'm giving two seconds back, so my seconds kids.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
But I but I said one second, I took, I
adjusted all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I was just trying to j SN in a second
for three thirds and a first.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
That's about to say, why don't you simplify, Why don't
you just get j s N Mike, you take a
first and a second and and and khalil and call it.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
That's what I would have been interested that all that
wasn't directly offered. That that's a decent offer that made me.
That gives me pause.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Happens? Can I can I tell you what happens? See? Yeah,
another ABC about the clothes, about the clothes. All right,
here we go. Hearing you, seeing you saying makes it
better because now I know I can talk to you.
(51:24):
Another dynasty problem is some people are just you can't
make a deal with them. And maybe it text doesn't translate,
it doesn't translate. You know, some people come off in
a way that is off putting. And maybe they don't
mean to, maybe it's just something is lost in the translation.
(51:44):
But some people are just like all of it. They
come off as if they just want to win the deal.
They just want to win it, and they won't. They
can't be flexible at all. And so now that I
know you have some flexibility, people gonna make this deal.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I think it can happen. I think you can happen.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
I think the deal the time is just proposed. Listen,
let's go on record right now, let's agree make that
deal right now, let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
So just to clarify, I'm getting a first, a second
in collusion. Care for Jays, Yes, I do, like Jess,
I need a moment. I need a moment. See tune
in next week, whether or not, whether or not I
(52:34):
took the deal from Michael Holly, Thank you so much
for stopping in. Guys, this has been a blast. We
will tune in Monday, Michael Hall, thanks you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
That's a pro move right there. That's that's that's old school,
like like before before TV, those little serial books. Oh yeah,
what's gonna come out next week? To in wait wait,
not even tune in, wait next week in your in
your from the Pony Express will deliver the next chapter
(53:09):
of this novel.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
You're gonna have to tune in to find out because
I'm gonna need time to think about it. But Thomas,
thanks for jumping in and playing referee and giving some
context to Mike and Michael Hawley. Thank you so much
for joining us. I hope this will not be the
last time because the the the Shakespearean experience of betrayal
that you laid out for us, unmasking the friendly advice
(53:33):
of Michael Smith was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
It was a cathartic experience for me. I needed that cleansing.
I needed to share that I've been bottled. I had
to be bottled this thing up. So I'm glad you
guys listen and gave me some advice. But really, man,
I'm an addict. I'm an addict with Dynasty now. I
love this.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
I love you to the club. You are in good
company with both myself, Thomas and all of our listeners.
So thank you again for listening to another episode of
the Dynasty Exchange. We will be back and Hally, I'll
get on the phone with you after this. Let's see
if we can close.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Okay, we'll close this deal. Let's get this all right.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Okay,
Hosts And Creators
Davis Nuaimi
Dylan Egloff
Josh Walsh
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