December 31, 2024 • 53 mins
Newcastle folk legend, semi-keen gardener and hater of Christmas Richard Dawson rings in the New Year with tales of nervously meeting Louis Theroux, the time Mitski's fans screamed at his idiosyncratic music as if he was The Beatles, and how he wrote his new album End of the Middle from his allotment shed. Plus how to navigate your early 40s, and whether or not is should involving buying a bright yellow puffer jacket.
You can watch clips of the podcast online now, just give us a follow on Instagram @midnightchatspod.
Further reading/listening/viewing:
Richard's video for new single Polytunnel
Listen to our new Beat the Algorithm Spotify playlist
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Credits:
Editing by Stuart Stubbs
Mixing and mastering by Willem Olenski
Artwork by Kate Prior
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Greg Cochran, Good evening, I'm Stuart Stubbs. We are
a couple of journalists who've been working in independent music
since the days of MySpace.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
One night a week, we become your guides through the
week in music, because, let's face it, the algorithms have
stopped working for most of us.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So we're here to share the best new underground music
and the news that you might have missed, as well
as discussing the week's biggest headlines and bringing you interviews
with some of our favorite alternative artists.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
The show is called Midnight Chats. Good evening, everyone, Welcome
to the first Midnight Chats of this brand new year,
twenty twenty five. Stu, this is the best year yet
so far, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It started off so well obviously.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
There's so many people listening who are just still buzzing
from last night's Who to Nanny and It's And when
you start the year like that, you just have to
you just have to be thinking, this is it. This
is the one. I think it's going to be an
excellent year for everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How are you doing fine? I went to bed early.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
God, another year, I've got another year of this feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Apologies to you and apologies that everyone listening to start
this year on a high. No, but I feel like
if you do start the year, it's a nice clean energy.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I love January. I'm one of those weirdos we've spoken about.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I love January. I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I think it's great to see us out and about
just skipping together and in hand, just with a megaphone
saying we love January in the drizzling rain, whilst everybody
looks depressed that Christmas is over.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I love it. I love January.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We are starting off this year with I guess that
was an absolute joy to speak to.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
This is so good.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Richard Dawson is someone that was going to come on
a few times over the course of last year twenty
twenty five, if you remember that year, and we chased
him around a bit and we couldn't quite get him,
and our schedules didn't quite work out and he was busy.
Finally got him at the end of December. Our conversation
therefore has a little bit of Christmas chat, so you
(02:21):
can still cling onto that Christmas joy and then talk
about what's in store for him this year and his
new album, which is called End of the Middle. It's
coming out on February the fourteenth.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Oh lovely, very romantic. You and I long time fans
of Richard Dawson. I know that you in particular have
been deep into a number of his albums. People that
are tuning in that are like new Year New artists
to me don't really know Richard Dawson's work that well. Like,
just give us a little bit of backstory, Okay. Richard
(02:54):
Dawson is a man called Richard. Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I won't say his age because it will come up
in conversation. He's from Newcastle and Richard Dawson play is
very good. Richard Dawson plays folk music that also has
an element of metal within it, which which you know what.
(03:19):
Here's a little clip of a Richard Dawson song.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Now, recently I've been struggling with Armzi.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
To the fine find is hard to Leave the Flower.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Pasta Scarwing.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That particular track is called Jogging from his album twenty twenty.
But he's got lots of albums all worth exploring. Some
of his songs are extremely long, some of them are
quite just you know, short, but they're quite epic, but
he writes folk music from a point of view of
the modern day, really gets into like the mundaneity of
(04:24):
everyday life. If you like the music of I'd say
even if you like things like Pulp and Jarvis Cocker
and the way that Jarvis Cocker took his very ordinary
life and references that we can all relate to and
made them into great pop songs. Richard Dawson does a
similar thing, but using traditional folk music but also shredding
(04:45):
a bit on his guitar. But it's the metal comparison.
I think you have to listen to it to get it.
Like I think it can put people off because I like, well,
I don't really like heavy metal music, and it's not
that it's folk music is probably easy way to explain it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
But he uses a lot of humor in his lyrics.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's very quite dry, very funny, and when I spoke
to him at the end of last year, he was
those things as well. And what I loved so much
about talking to him, I feel like we met each
other on a similar tempo and I feel like, which
was quite.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
The description here of being this is like low key hilarious.
It's this conversation is that what you're saying like funny
but tired.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's quite it's quite low energy, which is always what
this podcast originally aimed to be. It's called Midnight Chats,
and it's meant to be a very it's meant to
be a relaxing listen. Really, and Richard, thank you so
much for being a trooper here. Because Richard turned up
to the studio we were recording in and we recorded
(05:55):
this early in the morning around ten I think it
was ten o'clock and he was in London to play
a show and he hadn't had any breakfast and there
was no way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Literally had like a neutral grain bar and yeah, which
he brought from.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
The vending machine of the studio.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I couldn't even offer him a glass of water, like
he said, He said, can I get a glass of water?
And I was like, yeah, sure, and then I realized
there were no glasses.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
We do, And the thing that's notable about Midnight Chats
is just how much we look after.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yes, we really do.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Couldn't even get him a glass of water, couldn't get
him with the coffee that he needed low sugar levels,
but bless him. There were a couple of times whilst
we were recording, I was like, shall we go and
get some food or something? And he was like, no, no,
it's fine. So thank you Richard for sticking with it.
He was on a tight schedule so he had to
get it done. I think it makes for a great listening.
(06:44):
Let's play it now and then we'll come back at
the end and just I'm back at our favorite bits
for someone that we've been trying to get on for
so long. For it to finally happen and for it
to be as enjoyable as it was, I'm very, very grateful.
So thank you, Richard. I hope you enjoy this episode
of Midnight Chats with Richard Dawson. Richard, Welcome to Midnight Chats.
(07:10):
Thanks for joining me. We're at the end of twenty
twenty four. This is going to be going out on
the first of January though, Okay, this is going to
be the first episode of.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
The new year. But how's how's your year been this year? Yeah?
Been really good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I saw you twice this year. I've seen you. I've
seen you do two shows this year. I saw you
play End of the Road. What's that chuck a lot?
Is there a story then?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, there is, but it's not what I'm going to recount.
It was good, it was grand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I really enjoyed that show. It was quite big stage.
It was on the big stage on the first night,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, it was great. And you know, I got to
meet Barney Billy by Prince Billy before and after and
that was really nice at my him obviously in there.
So yeah, it was it was really good. It was
good fun. Did you stay stick around for the weekend. Yeah.
We actually we had a like we had some piles
(08:11):
come so there was me and my partner and then
two piles and we hired like a very very fancy
thatch roof cottage. No, we were off site on it
a cottage and a little village, and so you just
traveling in each day. Yeah, I had a day off
on the Saturday. I needed that. And the basis of
(08:34):
the story, which I won't be telling, occurred on the Friday,
which is why I needed this day away on the Saturday.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Right, Okay, I think we can fill in the blank
set and we can make up our own please do.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So I saw you there, and I also saw you
do a surprise when it was a surprise to us,
I think a track and Adam Buxton recording the podcast. Yeah,
story there, no, no, no, it was it was grand.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
It's just a very like a really high pressure situation
and like because you've only got one song and you know,
that was probably one of the biggest venues I played.
That's I think it's maybe four thousand people or something. Yeah,
so it's just you know, and I was really nervous
about I'm not nervous about me and Adam. Now I
was first in his Lovely blook, but I was really
(09:33):
nervous about meeting Louis Through. And I'm not usually thrown
by meeting people, but I think Louis Through has just
been so well a few things. He's on the TV
so much, but also he's kind of penetrating gaze, a
lovely guy. But I was just you know, I just
got a bit excited and did you get on well,
oh no, it's a total disaster. I mean I built
(09:55):
it up and I sort of charged in the dressing
room and I wanted to say hello before before before
I didn't want to meet him on stage because I
thought they was throwers. I've had a meet him beforehand,
and the first thing out of my mouth when I
was shaking his hand, was like, I just wanted to
get a look at you, not hello, not how are you?
(10:19):
I just wanted to get a look at you. And
then he said really dryly, like what here I am?
And that was, oh no, I got that's so wrong.
But you know, I know it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He's become a bit of a national treasure as a.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, it's just very it's such an interesting approach, this
kind of non judgmental hmm. I mean, I know that's
sort of run him into not trouble exactly, but you know,
with a Jimmy Saviell thing. But I think in Gerry
it's just such a positive approach and h yeah. Really
(10:58):
great filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He's when he when he interviews people. I don't know
if you've listened to his podcast, but he's very good
at he's great at contextualizing everything.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But he's also.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Great at asking difficult questions in a way that the
person he's interviewing is never sort of taken aback by
or feels threatened by, and therefore they tend to open
up a lot. How do you think you'd fare being
interviewed by Louis than.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Terrible, which, yeah, all of my tricks and tactics to
Avid questions would be I think rendered completely impotent.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Absolutely, you'd be crying with him five minutes. He tends
to get people on emotional subjects quite quickly.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Luckily, I don't think I have to worry that this
is going to in my future. No offense. It was implicit,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It was it was yeah, thanks, Yeah they would have.
Those were the two times I saw you. But yeah,
how how how the rest of your year been other
than those two occasion?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You know, I had a couple of the couple of
years before I had I was I didn't have a
good time at all, and so I managed to get
back on track. And it's just felt this year has
been such a different experience to be alive than and
then those two previous So it was a big relief.
(12:26):
I had a lot of high times this year, like
I had these this, yeah, this, these interesting shows like
this Adam. I didn't have any big tour or anything.
I just had a lot of disparate shows that Adam
books and things Lancam I was supporting. That was fantastic
and that was as well. Yeah, yeah, and it's so ridiculous.
It's like like the kind of show I do. It
(12:47):
was sort of unpicked, the very the sort of you know,
any showness about it. But somehow it seemed to work
and that was that was important Mitsky Earlier in the Yeah,
did like five Days Court, which was such an amazing
experience and like so absurd.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, her fan base now has suddenly it felt it
fell was out within the last couple of records. It's
really just had a steep incline. Yeah, and her fans
are such like they're so devoted to her. Did they
Did they like your stuff?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Apparently? Yeah? I was. I was. Actually I hadn't realized
just how much prejudice I was sort of bringing into
the situation. I was expecting to get kind of booed
off stage, you know, And actually I walked out and
I said, hellottle bit of a funny shot start to
the shot to the story started the show. And the
(13:47):
song's about a mom in fifteenth century Hexham and they'll
go like wow, like a Beatles kind of mania sound.
I thought, what the fuck was this? And you know
when you do like a guitaric who And I hadn't
really thought. I mean, I just had been bracing myself
(14:09):
for it to be a difficult five half an hour's
and it wasn't. It was actually difficult for other reasons,
which were it was so bewildering and kind of like visceral,
like to have that sound coming out is really visceral. Yeah. Yeah,
it was a really amazing experience. I wouldn't want to
(14:30):
do that all the time, and it would be terrible
as well. It was so draining to have to try
and do that because it takes the energy up on
stage and it's already like there's already the moments. So
it was like, I'm so glad the last night was
a Dublin arena and that's like I think it's does
eight thousand people sound like a ridiculous number. I think
(14:53):
it might have been eight thousand screaming teenage girls and
their parents basically in the main and about fifty minutes
in ago. This is one of the most amazing experiences
of my life. But I want it to be over now.
This is just too much and it's too much and
(15:14):
you can't do a lot of detail either in the
playing or anything. It's just you just have to go
on this kind of up trajectory. What was amazing about
Mitsky though, is she does this thing. What's so great
about it should become wildly popular, as you say, with
these the fans that excuse me, the fans that are
(15:35):
like so into it and dedicated. But the music's pretty odd,
the songs are pretty weird, and the lyrics are great.
And she does this show which isn't bombastic. It's really
detailed and careful and delicate. I was blown away. And
this show I watched her do in Dublin was one
(15:57):
of the best things I've ever seen in my life.
And I was I knew would be great. I didn't
think it would be like life changing great. Yeah, yeah,
I didn't expect that, but you got to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But you've got a taste of I guess what doing
that night after night forever, oh would do to your psyche?
I guess because that's the mad thing, isn't it. Like
when you think of, you know, at the absolute top
of it, I guess you've got Taylor Swift who at
this point, I just I just don't know how you
(16:27):
live that being your norm, you know, going playing Wembley's
Stadium some nights in a row, or whatever it was
and have that response as well and have people scream
at you. I can imagine, as you say, it is
exhausting and probably maybe not the best for you.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean maybe one you're at that level. It's
just exciting. But I guess it's channeling in somewhere that
you could have to make music that suits those spaces. Yeah,
if you want to keep doing it. But you know,
Taylor Swift can't go back now to play to play
like a little acoustic shore and you could, but it
(17:05):
would be like a funny event like if she ever
wanted to do a tour of little village halls in
the UK or what you know, for instance, should struggle, Yes,
there would be a lot of logistics difficulties there. Yeah,
I don't think. I don't imagine that in her plan
(17:25):
it might not be on the car.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So putting yourself in the headspace of when this comes out,
when people will hear this first of Jen, what do
you think your mood will be?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know, it's strange, isn't it, Because you move on
from the thing and I'm getting on with other things
now and then you have to step back. I mean
I'm already stepping back into it a bit, and yeah,
I don't know. I think I always have it a
bit fearing the worst. You know, I'm confident in the album,
(17:56):
of course, and otherwise it wouldn't have been finished. But yeah,
I think I felt, particularly with this one, I was
kind of stealing myself for people not to like it
because it's I don't know, I hope I would be
wrong about that, but yeah, I like it. Thanks, Yeah
(18:18):
that was efficient.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But what was it about it that you thought maybe
this is the one that people aren't going to go for.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I don't know. Maybe it's just like, do you do
that on everyone? I do it to an extent on everyone,
but more on this one. I kind of thought the
last one the same, but I was really plea I
felt much more comfortable with that because it was just
the extreme length of the first track and all of this,
(18:43):
and it was like, well, I know what I'm dealing
with here, Whereas this one, I think, because it's more
stripped back, all that's on displays like the songwriting really
and this like you know, this this hopefully unadorned singing,
so that that actually I've got no way to hide
in a way, So if if whatever criticism comes in
(19:06):
will be much more about you know, it'll sting a bit,
so I'm just going to ignore it. I'm not gonna
engage with it.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
This do you have in your head your audience? Do
you like the the quote unquote Richard Dawson.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Do you know what? No? I think if I shouldn't
think about that too much. Sometimes I got little flashes
of of realizing certain things and then I just want
to block block that out. It's hard, So I want
to try and appreciate things a bit more. I think.
You know, I'm generally a bit oblivious in a lot
of ways, and maybe I started to not be oblivious
(19:49):
in some certain ways and it was really like, oh
my god, this is this is terrible. I would like
to stay and think about Agnes Smart and that documentary
about her which is called With My Back to the World,
but because that's not gonna work, I mean, and the
songs up front face and the yeah yeah, I don't know.
(20:11):
It's like I think as well, because it's quite an
emotional sound and record, and it's it's not about me,
but it's there's a lot of meat in there, and
so maybe that's why I might feel a bit more
as well. Maybe part of it is because this is
I was kind of rambling. Now there's all the danger
that was going to happen. That's why we're here.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That no lost it. I've lost it. It's gone. Yeah,
fair enough, it was a good thought.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
What the hell? Ah ah, No, it's gone. This is
I just had an energy bar from the bloody vendor machine.
That's that's all I've had. It can't be What are
you trying to do to me? Where's he go with
this cop? Where's that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
We should say the album is called End of the Middle. Yes,
and as you say, it is your most sort of
paired back record. The songs are front and center. It's
about they sort of live and die on their own.
And I think that. I think it's brilliant. I think
like it's it all works really well. And I don't
(21:24):
think it feels despite the differences to your other records,
I don't think it feels like not a Richard Dawson album.
It still feels very much like fits in with your
other records. There's one thing that you've said about about
it so far, which is that you purposely wanted it
to feel feeble and sickly in tone.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Why was that like?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Because it is very like an intimate record and it's
very like soft. What was it that made you want
to make a record that's sickly?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Which is a great, a great you know, it's maybe
not the more perfect word, but I think for a
press release it has a certain directness about it. Yeah,
I guess I was thinking. I had a a little
bit and I've had it before on an album, but
the idea of like a newborn goat just or a
full stumbling around a barn, all sticky and sort of
(22:20):
unsteady and its legs. That there's so many moments in
the album where people have a sort of a bit
of a birth. There's some birth, some actual births in
the book, or the bit just before the birth, the
bit just after a birth. There is no song during birth,
(22:40):
although that would have been good. Isn't too late too?
But I think the characters are all going through some
kind of rebirth in their lives. So this quality of
suddenly emerging and and then you have to relearn how
to to use your legs, use your mind, use what
(23:04):
you got, you kind of stagger around for a bit. Yeah,
I mean I felt a bit like that last year,
I sort of had a rebirth, but it takes a
while to sort of You've got a new kind of
control system, got to get used to this new new reality,
and then things settle down again, and you know, you
(23:26):
become bland once more. I have been facetious now, but yeah,
so I wanted it to have this, this kind of quality,
and it was quite a sort of challenge to her
to achieve. For my tendency is to overdo it on everything,
I think, on the guitar and singing. But it was like, okay,
we need to just pull everything back, and the same
(23:48):
for Andrew Cheatham, who does a drums of work with
on the last few albums. They're very soft, aren't they
They're really soft, So what you hear probably sounds quite
sort of simple, but it was really hard to do
because every time softer, softer, and he's looking at us
like I'm barely touching them. It's so technically difficult to
(24:11):
do this steady and keep it really nice feel and straight.
But yeah, so the drummond I think is a really
big part of this album, but it doesn't announce itself ever.
The streets not heaving up, but start in the hell
(24:35):
golf balls of ice upon the box and these sales.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
With spotty job in a Manics reflation shown the.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
US a French connection over usc don't take this the
wrong way, Andrew. I'm speaking Andrew now somebody. But I
think that you can't tell how good it is from
listening to it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well, I think actually if you were to you know,
I've listened to the record maybe four times, five times.
But if you were to say to me, if I
had just listened to it, you know, casually, not knowing
we were going to talk about it, and you someone
would say, does it is it? Is it just vocals
and guitars, or does it you know, has it got
anything else on it? I wouldn't probably be able to
(25:28):
remember that, you know, I wouldn't be able to be like, oh, yeah, no,
it's got drums on it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
This great stuff. Andrew's going to be delighted of this.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
But Andrew, I would like to say that in the moment,
it's a vital part of each song. I want to say,
I do want to, but you know, like it's so soft.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That unmemorable in the most great way, in the in
the in the perfect way. Will you be playing together
live or you. Yeah, we've got tour in the spring.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So he's going to have to he's going to have
to suss that that really Yeah, by the end of it, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
By the end of it. Right now he's got a
now master. It'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
He wrote some of the lyrics at least in your allotment. Yeah,
is that fact? Is that true? That's true.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's a great question.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I felt I needed to check because I know, I
know that there's parts of you in your music, and
then there's parts of you that aren't.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, it does sound too good to be true, but
it is, in the main true. A lot of it
was written in Yeah, I got we have we've got
this allartment like two years ago, and we put a
shed up there. And is it's a lot more close
to your close? Yeah, it's like two minutes walk from
the house just in the village.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Was there a I mean, this is a bit of
a sidebar, I guess, But is there was there a
long waiting list to get allotments? I imagine it's quite so.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
We thought it was going to be four or five years,
and we got on after a year and a bit.
I think there was some quite a lot of people
vacated the village after shortly after we moved in. Yeah,
so it came up unexpectedly and I think we were
really lucky. Got this lovely patchure which is you know
where where it's kind of raised up on the side
(27:23):
of a valley so you can see down quite a
stretch of the town valley and it's an amazing spot.
And you go sixty quid a year to have six
year that's ridiculous. Oh my god. Yeah, we were Hm.
It's triggy though, because we were We haven't received a
letter yet, but I think we were on there. We
were within a whisker of receiving a letter having not
(27:47):
page or sixteen. You know, we paid it, but maybe
I didn't exercise correct weed control, which has been a
problem throughout my life.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So they police, they police it. They need to make
sure what they're checking in on.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I don't think that they would like the word police.
Know the check and you know that you have to
see on top of it and you have to plant
a certain amount of things right there. I didn't know
that they would just be like, this is your patch
and by no. I think the danger is that that
you can just let it go. Then and if if
you if your thing just goes to completely to weeds
(28:26):
and then it'll go to seed, then it's going to
negatively affect the other a lotments as well as be
I wouldn't say it to an eyesore, but some people
would find it that and I think there's yeah, we
get it. It's just hard to stand on top of it.
I realize as well. I don't really like doing it.
(28:49):
I'm not. Yeah, Sally, Sally, it's hard work, but you should.
She loves it as well. Yeah. For me, I go
up there and I just injure myself. I can't see
what I'm doing. I've got, for say, the listeners. I've
got visual impairment, which particularly affects detail and like depth
perception and also patching. My sort of middle vision is
(29:13):
much worse than the rest, but it means I just
I'm not avoiding nettles, sticks, badger strike, which is a
great danger up there. You always have to carry a
large stick in case of badger strike because if a
badger locks onto your ankle, they will increase the pressure
(29:37):
of their jaw until your ankle snaps. So you have
to always carry a large stick with you when in
the allotment, and if you snap it, it tricks the
badger into believing it's snapped your leg. This is a
true fact. That is a wild fact. It's not a fact.
(29:58):
It's a factoid. Call that one. But most of the
record was was built, was built in the it was
written in the in the shed there, but some of
it at the dining room table as well.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Okay, you know, so you've so you but so you've
got I'd say you've got your sixty pounds per year
out worth out of it, even if you you've not
particularly enjoyed the the reason, the real reason for an allotment,
because you've just turned you've turned it into a writing
space to write a new record.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I don't know if that's even allowed. I hope they
never hear this. Okay, we've got that out, but you
know it's the truth, so let's embrace it. Yeah, no,
it's it's yeah. We just I need to up my
game in the house a bit, just take a bit
of pressure off Sally there so you can do more
(30:52):
in the allotment.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I suppose this is connected to allotments. This is my segue.
Here's a clunky segue. Because allotments are often thought of
to be for older people. Shall I say this is
how i'm This is how i'm this is how I'm
swinging us around. We're in year apart in age actually
really yeah, twenty four, yes, I'm twenty four as well.
(31:28):
How are you finding your early forties?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
This has become one of my things I like to
talk about the most because I'm trying to I think
I'm trying to work for it myself. So I like
to ask other people who are my age, and I
can sort of compare notes and say, how's it going
for you?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah? So the two difficult yes, I've described before. I
didn't actually describe them, but I mentioned them. I won't
describe them with it's okay, but I thought, what I
can't tell us whether there were situation based like to
do with what was going on, or a product of
being middle aged. It's difficult to know I've gone through
exactly the same thing. It's difficult to know.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I've found that being born in the years we were born,
I was also turning forty as as you would have
been in that pandemic time. So that's that's one of
the big things where I think, is this a situation
thing or is this an age thing? They sort of
(32:29):
just collided at the same time. But you feel you're
through that now, you feeling if because now that I'm
in it, I'm I think I'm okay with it now.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I think I've come through the other side. I've pushed through.
Are you one year older or younger than me? I
think that another I am. I'm forty two. Yeah, that's
what I thought about. If I've been one older, I
don't think I would have brought it up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, I think I feel a little bit. While I'm
hopeful it's the same. Like I've been feeling much better
this year, and yeah, I got things on the go.
I don't know what that is. Maybe I was chatting
with my Parlana about it last night and she's feeling
she's just under forty and feeling some of the same things,
feeling like a little bit of like invisibility and or
(33:25):
in like redundancy just a terrible word, but yeah, like
what's what? What's our place here? I think there's this
added thing for men maybe in the light of like
post me too. But I've got to stress there like
(33:45):
that's only a good thing. It's but it's maybe a
reason why a lot of guys are like sort of
pondering their place. But I think that's healthy. Isn't it
taken too much of a grant? I certainly have in
the yea, yeah, the previous forty three years or well,
probably not the first twelve years. I didn't think too
(34:07):
much about sixteen, you know, I know, let's not put
a date on it. So that's in the mix. And
then I think as well, all of the around like
things that are rising up with the social media and
this new wave of masculinism is finding your place and
(34:29):
all of that is it's quite tricky maybe as well.
You just get past some things you just realize. You know.
There's that scene in The Straight Story where Richard Farnsworth, Ah,
it's fantastic watch that tonight. Okay, Richard Farnsworth playing Alvin Straight.
(34:50):
Somebody asked him what's what's the best thing about getting old,
and he says, well, he learned to separate the week
from the chef. I think that is true to her. Yeah, yeah,
I think it is a certain degree.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Were you growing up, were you what type of person
were you growing up? Were you ever an old soul?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah? I always like to be around old, older people, okay,
and I always like call myself an old soul. I
think I was probably just a bit of a dick, Honestly,
I'm not even I'm not trying to be facetious that like,
just because because of the associations with being old, that
you're somehow wise or something. I think I was trying
(35:29):
to project like somehow I don't know, right, Yeah. But
and then you actually hit forties and you sort of go,
this is kind of a roller coaster, and me really
subtle ways, I wasn't expecting, like I didn't know that
I was going to becoming deeply fretful every time that
I would get on a train about whether there'd be
(35:51):
room on the rack for my bag.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Deeply fretful, right, And that had become an anxiety for you.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
How are you with?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Do you drive? Okay? Because I think I can't see
Oh yeah, of course that is rude your face in it, okay, yeah,
because that becomes I think, but I think that becomes
a similar threatful feeling for people as they get older,
of finding parking spaces and worrying that they're not going
(36:19):
to be out of park so they get to town
at like six am to an empty car.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Is it related with like the comforts in life and
you start to expect, you know, you get used to
certain things and you sort of want it to be
this way, but you can't always choose. I sort of
feel like this is in play for me a little bit,
(36:44):
like a bit of entitlement.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all the buzzwords, all the red flags,
Yeah yeah, you know you've got to keep an eye.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah. I feel like like that, like you want to
control the situation a bit more. There's something you feel
like in your forties you should be a little bit
more in control. But of course it's all it's all
illusion in it. Are you up for it?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Here is one I This would have been when I
was forty. I think I bought a new winter coat
and it was like dark green m and I bought it,
and I thought, what am I?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Like? Is this me? Now?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Am I just gonna always buy dark green clothes or
dark blue clothes or black clothes? So I thought, no,
I'm going to push back against it. I mean, as
midlife crisis, I think this is okay. But I bought
a bright yellow north Face puffer jacket. Do it look
like yeah, I did, and I thought, but I'm now
on the fence about it. I wear it probably about
(37:55):
maybe like three times a year since I've bought it,
I mean, and had it never entirely comfortable. But yeah,
I feel very I feel too old in it. But
then also, but then there's half of me that thinks
maybe I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet.
I don't want to. I don't want to. I want
(38:16):
to push back on it a little bit. So I'm
I'm I'm on the fence.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Would you buy? Would you buy a bright Yeah? Well,
I've got this bright green hat and I've been feeling
a bit churlish about it when I've been you that's
a bright green it is? Yeah, And it's got it
like a very brat, isn't it? Yes? Brat coded? Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I mean, I just got my first pair of pajamas.
So that's where lovely. I think you can do both, though,
I think you can keep the cat. I don't think
the cat makes you like what you are you worried
like when you put.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
The cap on? Are you thinking? Is this too much?
I think I'm not really worried about it too much,
but I do sometimes I've could it out now, but
a lot of time like looking at like some some
like stylish clothes or something, and on the rare occasions
I've actually tried them on, it just got I just
looked like me in a in a stylish jacket. It
(39:14):
doesn't marry at all, and I think there is a
bit of a desire that to stay. I still want
to cut the must what's what's the expression cut a dash?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yes, it's just not happening. I think you need to
find my my My advice would be, I think we
need to push back on it.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I don't know it gets easier as well, though, because
when you have found When I was younger, I was
so you know, you go out on the street and
just I was constantly feeling like people were looking at us.
And I think it's different in London. I was used
to feel very free here because there's so many different
kinds of people, somebody with different ways people look. Suddenly
(39:59):
what because in Newcastle it's different. People would call you
out constantly on the street if they had even shoulder
length hair, anything different going on. I know that happens
everywhere a bit, but it was really extreme and so
I think it still takes a while to break that.
But I think these kind of things, you just got
(40:20):
to let it go, haven't you. Like I feel like
a bit embarrassed about my weight because I'm a short,
round man with a head like a giant tennis ball.
That's when I look in the mirror, I see Ryan Goslin.
(40:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Sometimes, isn't that wonderful though, that you can see that
because I'm the same. And then I'll see, especially if
I see a video of.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Myself, see Ryan Gosling too.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
No, No, I see like a sort of man.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I feel. I played. I played.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
I used to play football religiously as a kid until
I was about fifteen, and then I just knocked it
all on the head. And last in the summer, I
played my first game of football since then in a
charity five a side tournament. We put a little team
into it, and my wife did a little film of
(41:28):
our team playing, and I thought, when I was on
that pitch, I thought, I've still got it.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I'm flying around here.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Some of these some of the touches were just exquisite.
And I saw the video of it, and I looked
probably about ninety years old. By a movement was so
I was like.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Hunched like a broken row button. I couldn't run, and
it was horrific. It's terrible, I think you. Yeah, any
footage you see back from of yourself, you're just it's awful,
isn't it, Because you're you're, you're seeing the way you
move as well.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
It's it's work. It's way worse than an image. Yeah,
because an image you can almost just say, well, that's
a bad side.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
But the thing about it is you wouldn't, at least
I don't, and I don't imagine you do. You don't
look at people with the same critical eye as you do.
You don't weigh people up for how they're moving or
what their body shape is. You just think, oh, they
look fantastic. Generally got a lovely green cap on looking good. Yeah,
(42:28):
you's got a lovely playing green code looks it's fitting
in nicely.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
There's a song on the record called Bullies, which there's
a few songs. I mean, to be honest, what we
could have done on this podcast You're You're, You're. I
think you're on interviewer's dream in a way, especially in
like a podcast format, because your songs have got so
many great lyrics and there's.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
So many jump off points.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Jump off points, yeah, you would call them. But the
song Bully has got a line in it which was
so nostalgic to me, and it's it's where you say,
I mean the hot the entire line that the whole
sort of couple is blanked by my best mates taxed
at the school gates and the use of the word
(43:17):
tax it really took me back to school.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Well that's good because I think that must be of
particular time. Yes, I would.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Guess, yeah, yeah, And I haven't heard that since anyone.
Anyone listening is thinking what does that mean? It means
you know that someone robs something off you. They basically snatch,
snatch whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I got text although it's come back in doesn't it?
In young in a? Is it generation alpha? I heard
about phantom tax is when you nick food off your mate.
To play it right, it's phantom tax. I don't understand it. Okay,
what's the fan the idea? And that's got to be
some references. It's only now that I mentioned it that
(43:58):
I started to wonder about that demology and whether there
was anything trouble And.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
When did you start writing lyrically in the way that
you do to like include such sort of everyday things
and stories, and like when did that happen for you
or when you first wrote a song? Did it just
come out that way in what people would now know
as the Richard Dawson style of songs?
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't really remember. I know
I was making songs since I was well, since I
got a guitar. That was the first thing I wanted
to do. But like so I played up till probably
twenty four to twenty five, and then I had a
year and a half off because I don't know, I
was just lost lost with it. But what I'd been
doing off to that point were these very internal, just
(44:50):
not very good songs with the kind of what I
would call stock lines, you know, about how I'm feeling
my heart all of this, etc. And then had some
time off that and did some of the music things,
and then came back and started again, and I think it,
(45:11):
you know, it's still was pretty bad, but trying to
write a bit more. I was thinking about it a
bit more, and I was reading a lot more about
that as well, maybe thinking about it in terms of
like not so much songwriting, but I was thinking more
about books and films. Well, how do I I don't know,
(45:36):
but I'm not sure what. I think it's very gradual process.
I mean I talked quite a lot over the last
well forever about a songwriter in Newcastle, nev Clay, and
he has always been somebody who's song about, you know,
like the details of his life in Long Benton and
just you know, things that happened on the bus. He's
(46:00):
got a great song about Hedgerow the new song, things
happening down the chippy in the show, and things that
you wouldn't normally associate with the or you typically with
poetry you do in American lyrics. I think it's much
more common these these small details, but somehow we don't
(46:21):
see our own stuff as being worthy of poetry. Yeah.
So I think he's been a big, huge inspiration to me.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
And can you remember what the first song you wrote
was that You're like, oh, this is better.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I think it's probably a wooden bag. That was a
good one. And I was thinking about the structure more
and it was the first time I sort of really
paid attention, and yeah, I remember thinking, that's got something
that's the structure is doing a lot of the the
work there, there's no I think I've decided at the start, Okay,
(47:00):
let's let's not have anything happen here and let's just
hone in on the stuff in this bag. And then
I realized there was still stuff happening, and that was
the structure was was kind of suggesting what that narrative was.
So it was a little bit accidental, but at the
(47:22):
same time it was kind of half deliberate, this idea
of making it's kind of thinking about the song in
terms of like the shape, how how it would look
on a graph or in a painting. And yeah, from
kicked on from there, I think.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, one final question before we go there, as as
it's Christmas coming up, the track on the album You
Love Christmas.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I fucking hate it? Do you am? I allowed to
swear on the program?
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Not a fan that Okay. My question was going to
be have you ever been to the boxing day or
stay sales?
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, but that's a Christmasy thing. Yeah, but
maybe actually I think it's probably the most anti Christmas
protest you can do, isn't it? Going to the going
to the shops on Boxing Day rather than Christmas.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
I've enjoyed Christmas a little bit more since I've been
in a relationship, yeah, because I never really was before.
It was terrible time, just everything, you know, everything coming home.
But it's much nicer now. But I've just got a
limited's sod training. Everybody wants to meet.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Have a nice time. It's terrible. It's nice to there's
some nice things about it. I can see that, but
it's just too much too, There's just too much of it.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
It's too discombobulating. And you know you mentioned the pandemic before,
like it was a taboo at the time. The first part,
it was like a dream for me, honestly, Like Christmas no, no,
the first pandemic. Yeah, it's quiet and just reading, being
in the house, have a walk once a day, not
(49:13):
seeing anyone apart from when you choose to maybe like
twice a week on zoom. This was brilliant and Christmas
is like the opposite of that. Just it's just too much.
But me and Sally going to go to the Yorkshire
Dales where her mom is in a little village and
(49:36):
we'll have four days. That would be really nice because
it's like it's like a Warburton's advert.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Right, okay, beautiful, Well, have a great Christmas. Happy Christmas
Christmas everyone, good luck for next year.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Cheers and the album. It's brilliant, Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Richard Dawson, absolute hero. I thought this was just like
low key brilliance, hilarious, very very dry, very very funny.
I think you two got on very well, so many highlights.
Feel a bit scared of badgers now, must be honest.
Never thought of the badger as a violent animal.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
See. That was one of those.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Moments where I, because I'd already questioned if Richard was
lying to me previously, once he got to the badger,
I was that I don't think I can ask if
that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
I don't think it is. I think it's like aban.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Vision of Richard Dawson in his suburban allotment in the
Northeast being attacked by a badger, in him beating the
badger the head with a stick. It's not what I
was expecting to come to our first episode of the
new year of Midnight Chats, but I'm very glad that
it did give me that mental image. But sixty quid
(51:06):
a year for an allotment, I've been very reasonable. How
that's good, isn't it. They should just prescribe allotments on
the on the NHS.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I think, how did you feel about us talking about
turning forty and.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
It's a long way away from me, mate, I didn't
really relate, didn't really relate to that one. I think
that's something I'll come on.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
To in due time.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
You know, my favorite of Richard's jokes was when I
said the weir a year apart and he said, oh,
you're twenty four.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
That was so quick.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
It was so quick, but it was also such an
early forties joke to make it.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Really was.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I spent the whole time listening to this conversation with
a smile on my face.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Well that's what we hope for here, isn't it. So
hopefully everyone has enjoyed that. We will be back next
week with We're not going to have a guest next week,
but we are going to do something that we hope
will be useful to listeners. We're going to look at
the year ahead and we're going to attempt to give
you some sort of diary for the year, the things
(52:11):
that are coming up that we're excited by, the big
dates that you need to know about, any albums that
we're particularly excited about when they're coming out. How the
year will broadly shap is. Yeah, how's it looking. We're
at the start of a new year. What's coming up?
What festival is going to be exciting for us? All
(52:31):
of that sort of thing. So that's going to be
next week. Please do give us a follow on Instagram.
If you're new to us, Hello for the first time.
We are at Midnight Chats Pod on Instagram. You can
DM us there. You can ask us any questions, you
can tell us how great we are on whatever you like.
What a start to the new year? Who to Nanny?
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Good Night Nanny.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
The Night Chats is a joint production between Loud and
Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart
Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,
and edited by Stuart Stubbs.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Find us on Instagram and TikTok to watch clips from
our recordings at much much more.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
We are Midnight Chats Pod.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
For more information, visit loudan Quiet dot com.
Good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Greg Cochran, Good evening, I'm Stuart Stubbs. We are
a couple of journalists who've been working in independent music
since the days of MySpace.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
One night a week, we become your guides through the
week in music, because, let's face it, the algorithms have
stopped working for most of us.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So we're here to share the best new underground music
and the news that you might have missed, as well
as discussing the week's biggest headlines and bringing you interviews
with some of our favorite alternative artists.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
The show is called Midnight Chats. Good evening, everyone, Welcome
to the first Midnight Chats of this brand new year,
twenty twenty five. Stu, this is the best year yet
so far, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It started off so well obviously.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
There's so many people listening who are just still buzzing
from last night's Who to Nanny and It's And when
you start the year like that, you just have to
you just have to be thinking, this is it. This
is the one. I think it's going to be an
excellent year for everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How are you doing fine? I went to bed early.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
God, another year, I've got another year of this feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Apologies to you and apologies that everyone listening to start
this year on a high. No, but I feel like
if you do start the year, it's a nice clean energy.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I love January. I'm one of those weirdos we've spoken about.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I love January. I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I think it's great to see us out and about
just skipping together and in hand, just with a megaphone
saying we love January in the drizzling rain, whilst everybody
looks depressed that Christmas is over.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I love it. I love January.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We are starting off this year with I guess that
was an absolute joy to speak to.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
This is so good.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Richard Dawson is someone that was going to come on
a few times over the course of last year twenty
twenty five, if you remember that year, and we chased
him around a bit and we couldn't quite get him,
and our schedules didn't quite work out and he was busy.
Finally got him at the end of December. Our conversation
therefore has a little bit of Christmas chat, so you
(02:21):
can still cling onto that Christmas joy and then talk
about what's in store for him this year and his
new album, which is called End of the Middle. It's
coming out on February the fourteenth.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Oh lovely, very romantic. You and I long time fans
of Richard Dawson. I know that you in particular have
been deep into a number of his albums. People that
are tuning in that are like new Year New artists
to me don't really know Richard Dawson's work that well. Like,
just give us a little bit of backstory, Okay. Richard
(02:54):
Dawson is a man called Richard. Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I won't say his age because it will come up
in conversation. He's from Newcastle and Richard Dawson play is
very good. Richard Dawson plays folk music that also has
an element of metal within it, which which you know what.
(03:19):
Here's a little clip of a Richard Dawson song.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Now, recently I've been struggling with Armzi.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
To the fine find is hard to Leave the Flower.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Pasta Scarwing.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That particular track is called Jogging from his album twenty twenty.
But he's got lots of albums all worth exploring. Some
of his songs are extremely long, some of them are
quite just you know, short, but they're quite epic, but
he writes folk music from a point of view of
the modern day, really gets into like the mundaneity of
(04:24):
everyday life. If you like the music of I'd say
even if you like things like Pulp and Jarvis Cocker
and the way that Jarvis Cocker took his very ordinary
life and references that we can all relate to and
made them into great pop songs. Richard Dawson does a
similar thing, but using traditional folk music but also shredding
(04:45):
a bit on his guitar. But it's the metal comparison.
I think you have to listen to it to get it.
Like I think it can put people off because I like, well,
I don't really like heavy metal music, and it's not
that it's folk music is probably easy way to explain it.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
But he uses a lot of humor in his lyrics.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's very quite dry, very funny, and when I spoke
to him at the end of last year, he was
those things as well. And what I loved so much
about talking to him, I feel like we met each
other on a similar tempo and I feel like, which
was quite.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
The description here of being this is like low key hilarious.
It's this conversation is that what you're saying like funny
but tired.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's quite it's quite low energy, which is always what
this podcast originally aimed to be. It's called Midnight Chats,
and it's meant to be a very it's meant to
be a relaxing listen. Really, and Richard, thank you so
much for being a trooper here. Because Richard turned up
to the studio we were recording in and we recorded
(05:55):
this early in the morning around ten I think it
was ten o'clock and he was in London to play
a show and he hadn't had any breakfast and there
was no way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Literally had like a neutral grain bar and yeah, which
he brought from.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
The vending machine of the studio.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I couldn't even offer him a glass of water, like
he said, He said, can I get a glass of water?
And I was like, yeah, sure, and then I realized
there were no glasses.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
We do, And the thing that's notable about Midnight Chats
is just how much we look after.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yes, we really do.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Couldn't even get him a glass of water, couldn't get
him with the coffee that he needed low sugar levels,
but bless him. There were a couple of times whilst
we were recording, I was like, shall we go and
get some food or something? And he was like, no, no,
it's fine. So thank you Richard for sticking with it.
He was on a tight schedule so he had to
get it done. I think it makes for a great listening.
(06:44):
Let's play it now and then we'll come back at
the end and just I'm back at our favorite bits
for someone that we've been trying to get on for
so long. For it to finally happen and for it
to be as enjoyable as it was, I'm very, very grateful.
So thank you, Richard. I hope you enjoy this episode
of Midnight Chats with Richard Dawson. Richard, Welcome to Midnight Chats.
(07:10):
Thanks for joining me. We're at the end of twenty
twenty four. This is going to be going out on
the first of January though, Okay, this is going to
be the first episode of.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
The new year. But how's how's your year been this year? Yeah?
Been really good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I saw you twice this year. I've seen you. I've
seen you do two shows this year. I saw you
play End of the Road. What's that chuck a lot?
Is there a story then?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, there is, but it's not what I'm going to recount.
It was good, it was grand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I really enjoyed that show. It was quite big stage.
It was on the big stage on the first night,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, it was great. And you know, I got to
meet Barney Billy by Prince Billy before and after and
that was really nice at my him obviously in there.
So yeah, it was it was really good. It was
good fun. Did you stay stick around for the weekend. Yeah.
We actually we had a like we had some piles
(08:11):
come so there was me and my partner and then
two piles and we hired like a very very fancy
thatch roof cottage. No, we were off site on it
a cottage and a little village, and so you just
traveling in each day. Yeah, I had a day off
on the Saturday. I needed that. And the basis of
(08:34):
the story, which I won't be telling, occurred on the Friday,
which is why I needed this day away on the Saturday.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Right, Okay, I think we can fill in the blank
set and we can make up our own please do.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So I saw you there, and I also saw you
do a surprise when it was a surprise to us,
I think a track and Adam Buxton recording the podcast. Yeah,
story there, no, no, no, it was it was grand.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
It's just a very like a really high pressure situation
and like because you've only got one song and you know,
that was probably one of the biggest venues I played.
That's I think it's maybe four thousand people or something. Yeah,
so it's just you know, and I was really nervous
about I'm not nervous about me and Adam. Now I
was first in his Lovely blook, but I was really
(09:33):
nervous about meeting Louis Through. And I'm not usually thrown
by meeting people, but I think Louis Through has just
been so well a few things. He's on the TV
so much, but also he's kind of penetrating gaze, a
lovely guy. But I was just you know, I just
got a bit excited and did you get on well,
oh no, it's a total disaster. I mean I built
(09:55):
it up and I sort of charged in the dressing
room and I wanted to say hello before before before
I didn't want to meet him on stage because I
thought they was throwers. I've had a meet him beforehand,
and the first thing out of my mouth when I
was shaking his hand, was like, I just wanted to
get a look at you, not hello, not how are you?
(10:19):
I just wanted to get a look at you. And
then he said really dryly, like what here I am?
And that was, oh no, I got that's so wrong.
But you know, I know it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He's become a bit of a national treasure as a.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, it's just very it's such an interesting approach, this
kind of non judgmental hmm. I mean, I know that's
sort of run him into not trouble exactly, but you know,
with a Jimmy Saviell thing. But I think in Gerry
it's just such a positive approach and h yeah. Really
(10:58):
great filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He's when he when he interviews people. I don't know
if you've listened to his podcast, but he's very good
at he's great at contextualizing everything.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
But he's also.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Great at asking difficult questions in a way that the
person he's interviewing is never sort of taken aback by
or feels threatened by, and therefore they tend to open
up a lot. How do you think you'd fare being
interviewed by Louis than.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Terrible, which, yeah, all of my tricks and tactics to
Avid questions would be I think rendered completely impotent.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Absolutely, you'd be crying with him five minutes. He tends
to get people on emotional subjects quite quickly.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Luckily, I don't think I have to worry that this
is going to in my future. No offense. It was implicit,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It was it was yeah, thanks, Yeah they would have.
Those were the two times I saw you. But yeah,
how how how the rest of your year been other
than those two occasion?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You know, I had a couple of the couple of
years before I had I was I didn't have a
good time at all, and so I managed to get
back on track. And it's just felt this year has
been such a different experience to be alive than and
then those two previous So it was a big relief.
(12:26):
I had a lot of high times this year, like
I had these this, yeah, this, these interesting shows like
this Adam. I didn't have any big tour or anything.
I just had a lot of disparate shows that Adam
books and things Lancam I was supporting. That was fantastic
and that was as well. Yeah, yeah, and it's so ridiculous.
It's like like the kind of show I do. It
(12:47):
was sort of unpicked, the very the sort of you know,
any showness about it. But somehow it seemed to work
and that was that was important Mitsky Earlier in the Yeah,
did like five Days Court, which was such an amazing
experience and like so absurd.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, her fan base now has suddenly it felt it
fell was out within the last couple of records. It's
really just had a steep incline. Yeah, and her fans
are such like they're so devoted to her. Did they
Did they like your stuff?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Apparently? Yeah? I was. I was. Actually I hadn't realized
just how much prejudice I was sort of bringing into
the situation. I was expecting to get kind of booed
off stage, you know, And actually I walked out and
I said, hellottle bit of a funny shot start to
the shot to the story started the show. And the
(13:47):
song's about a mom in fifteenth century Hexham and they'll
go like wow, like a Beatles kind of mania sound.
I thought, what the fuck was this? And you know
when you do like a guitaric who And I hadn't
really thought. I mean, I just had been bracing myself
(14:09):
for it to be a difficult five half an hour's
and it wasn't. It was actually difficult for other reasons,
which were it was so bewildering and kind of like visceral,
like to have that sound coming out is really visceral. Yeah. Yeah,
it was a really amazing experience. I wouldn't want to
(14:30):
do that all the time, and it would be terrible
as well. It was so draining to have to try
and do that because it takes the energy up on
stage and it's already like there's already the moments. So
it was like, I'm so glad the last night was
a Dublin arena and that's like I think it's does
eight thousand people sound like a ridiculous number. I think
(14:53):
it might have been eight thousand screaming teenage girls and
their parents basically in the main and about fifty minutes
in ago. This is one of the most amazing experiences
of my life. But I want it to be over now.
This is just too much and it's too much and
(15:14):
you can't do a lot of detail either in the
playing or anything. It's just you just have to go
on this kind of up trajectory. What was amazing about
Mitsky though, is she does this thing. What's so great
about it should become wildly popular, as you say, with
these the fans that excuse me, the fans that are
(15:35):
like so into it and dedicated. But the music's pretty odd,
the songs are pretty weird, and the lyrics are great.
And she does this show which isn't bombastic. It's really
detailed and careful and delicate. I was blown away. And
this show I watched her do in Dublin was one
(15:57):
of the best things I've ever seen in my life.
And I was I knew would be great. I didn't
think it would be like life changing great. Yeah, yeah,
I didn't expect that, but you got to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But you've got a taste of I guess what doing
that night after night forever, oh would do to your psyche?
I guess because that's the mad thing, isn't it. Like
when you think of, you know, at the absolute top
of it, I guess you've got Taylor Swift who at
this point, I just I just don't know how you
(16:27):
live that being your norm, you know, going playing Wembley's
Stadium some nights in a row, or whatever it was
and have that response as well and have people scream
at you. I can imagine, as you say, it is
exhausting and probably maybe not the best for you.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean maybe one you're at that level. It's
just exciting. But I guess it's channeling in somewhere that
you could have to make music that suits those spaces. Yeah,
if you want to keep doing it. But you know,
Taylor Swift can't go back now to play to play
like a little acoustic shore and you could, but it
(17:05):
would be like a funny event like if she ever
wanted to do a tour of little village halls in
the UK or what you know, for instance, should struggle, Yes,
there would be a lot of logistics difficulties there. Yeah,
I don't think. I don't imagine that in her plan
(17:25):
it might not be on the car.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So putting yourself in the headspace of when this comes out,
when people will hear this first of Jen, what do
you think your mood will be?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know, it's strange, isn't it, Because you move on
from the thing and I'm getting on with other things
now and then you have to step back. I mean
I'm already stepping back into it a bit, and yeah,
I don't know. I think I always have it a
bit fearing the worst. You know, I'm confident in the album,
(17:56):
of course, and otherwise it wouldn't have been finished. But yeah,
I think I felt, particularly with this one, I was
kind of stealing myself for people not to like it
because it's I don't know, I hope I would be
wrong about that, but yeah, I like it. Thanks, Yeah
(18:18):
that was efficient.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But what was it about it that you thought maybe
this is the one that people aren't going to go for.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I don't know. Maybe it's just like, do you do
that on everyone? I do it to an extent on everyone,
but more on this one. I kind of thought the
last one the same, but I was really plea I
felt much more comfortable with that because it was just
the extreme length of the first track and all of this,
(18:43):
and it was like, well, I know what I'm dealing
with here, Whereas this one, I think, because it's more
stripped back, all that's on displays like the songwriting really
and this like you know, this this hopefully unadorned singing,
so that that actually I've got no way to hide
in a way, So if if whatever criticism comes in
(19:06):
will be much more about you know, it'll sting a bit,
so I'm just going to ignore it. I'm not gonna
engage with it.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
This do you have in your head your audience? Do
you like the the quote unquote Richard Dawson.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Do you know what? No? I think if I shouldn't
think about that too much. Sometimes I got little flashes
of of realizing certain things and then I just want
to block block that out. It's hard, So I want
to try and appreciate things a bit more. I think.
You know, I'm generally a bit oblivious in a lot
of ways, and maybe I started to not be oblivious
(19:49):
in some certain ways and it was really like, oh
my god, this is this is terrible. I would like
to stay and think about Agnes Smart and that documentary
about her which is called With My Back to the World,
but because that's not gonna work, I mean, and the
songs up front face and the yeah yeah, I don't know.
(20:11):
It's like I think as well, because it's quite an
emotional sound and record, and it's it's not about me,
but it's there's a lot of meat in there, and
so maybe that's why I might feel a bit more
as well. Maybe part of it is because this is
I was kind of rambling. Now there's all the danger
that was going to happen. That's why we're here.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That no lost it. I've lost it. It's gone. Yeah,
fair enough, it was a good thought.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
What the hell? Ah ah, No, it's gone. This is
I just had an energy bar from the bloody vendor machine.
That's that's all I've had. It can't be What are
you trying to do to me? Where's he go with
this cop? Where's that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
We should say the album is called End of the Middle. Yes,
and as you say, it is your most sort of
paired back record. The songs are front and center. It's
about they sort of live and die on their own.
And I think that. I think it's brilliant. I think
like it's it all works really well. And I don't
(21:24):
think it feels despite the differences to your other records,
I don't think it feels like not a Richard Dawson album.
It still feels very much like fits in with your
other records. There's one thing that you've said about about
it so far, which is that you purposely wanted it
to feel feeble and sickly in tone.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Why was that like?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Because it is very like an intimate record and it's
very like soft. What was it that made you want
to make a record that's sickly?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Which is a great, a great you know, it's maybe
not the more perfect word, but I think for a
press release it has a certain directness about it. Yeah,
I guess I was thinking. I had a a little
bit and I've had it before on an album, but
the idea of like a newborn goat just or a
full stumbling around a barn, all sticky and sort of
(22:20):
unsteady and its legs. That there's so many moments in
the album where people have a sort of a bit
of a birth. There's some birth, some actual births in
the book, or the bit just before the birth, the
bit just after a birth. There is no song during birth,
(22:40):
although that would have been good. Isn't too late too?
But I think the characters are all going through some
kind of rebirth in their lives. So this quality of
suddenly emerging and and then you have to relearn how
to to use your legs, use your mind, use what
(23:04):
you got, you kind of stagger around for a bit. Yeah,
I mean I felt a bit like that last year,
I sort of had a rebirth, but it takes a
while to sort of You've got a new kind of
control system, got to get used to this new new reality,
and then things settle down again, and you know, you
(23:26):
become bland once more. I have been facetious now, but yeah,
so I wanted it to have this, this kind of quality,
and it was quite a sort of challenge to her
to achieve. For my tendency is to overdo it on everything,
I think, on the guitar and singing. But it was like, okay,
we need to just pull everything back, and the same
(23:48):
for Andrew Cheatham, who does a drums of work with
on the last few albums. They're very soft, aren't they
They're really soft, So what you hear probably sounds quite
sort of simple, but it was really hard to do
because every time softer, softer, and he's looking at us
like I'm barely touching them. It's so technically difficult to
(24:11):
do this steady and keep it really nice feel and straight.
But yeah, so the drummond I think is a really
big part of this album, but it doesn't announce itself ever.
The streets not heaving up, but start in the hell
(24:35):
golf balls of ice upon the box and these sales.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
With spotty job in a Manics reflation shown the.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
US a French connection over usc don't take this the
wrong way, Andrew. I'm speaking Andrew now somebody. But I
think that you can't tell how good it is from
listening to it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well, I think actually if you were to you know,
I've listened to the record maybe four times, five times.
But if you were to say to me, if I
had just listened to it, you know, casually, not knowing
we were going to talk about it, and you someone
would say, does it is it? Is it just vocals
and guitars, or does it you know, has it got
anything else on it? I wouldn't probably be able to
(25:28):
remember that, you know, I wouldn't be able to be like, oh, yeah, no,
it's got drums on it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
This great stuff. Andrew's going to be delighted of this.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
But Andrew, I would like to say that in the moment,
it's a vital part of each song. I want to say,
I do want to, but you know, like it's so soft.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That unmemorable in the most great way, in the in
the in the perfect way. Will you be playing together
live or you. Yeah, we've got tour in the spring.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So he's going to have to he's going to have
to suss that that really Yeah, by the end of it, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
By the end of it. Right now he's got a
now master. It'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
He wrote some of the lyrics at least in your allotment. Yeah,
is that fact? Is that true? That's true.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's a great question.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I felt I needed to check because I know, I
know that there's parts of you in your music, and
then there's parts of you that aren't.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, it does sound too good to be true, but
it is, in the main true. A lot of it
was written in Yeah, I got we have we've got
this allartment like two years ago, and we put a
shed up there. And is it's a lot more close
to your close? Yeah, it's like two minutes walk from
the house just in the village.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Was there a I mean, this is a bit of
a sidebar, I guess, But is there was there a
long waiting list to get allotments? I imagine it's quite so.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
We thought it was going to be four or five years,
and we got on after a year and a bit.
I think there was some quite a lot of people
vacated the village after shortly after we moved in. Yeah,
so it came up unexpectedly and I think we were
really lucky. Got this lovely patchure which is you know
where where it's kind of raised up on the side
(27:23):
of a valley so you can see down quite a
stretch of the town valley and it's an amazing spot.
And you go sixty quid a year to have six
year that's ridiculous. Oh my god. Yeah, we were Hm.
It's triggy though, because we were We haven't received a
letter yet, but I think we were on there. We
were within a whisker of receiving a letter having not
(27:47):
page or sixteen. You know, we paid it, but maybe
I didn't exercise correct weed control, which has been a
problem throughout my life.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So they police, they police it. They need to make
sure what they're checking in on.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I don't think that they would like the word police.
Know the check and you know that you have to
see on top of it and you have to plant
a certain amount of things right there. I didn't know
that they would just be like, this is your patch
and by no. I think the danger is that that
you can just let it go. Then and if if
you if your thing just goes to completely to weeds
(28:26):
and then it'll go to seed, then it's going to
negatively affect the other a lotments as well as be
I wouldn't say it to an eyesore, but some people
would find it that and I think there's yeah, we
get it. It's just hard to stand on top of it.
I realize as well. I don't really like doing it.
(28:49):
I'm not. Yeah, Sally, Sally, it's hard work, but you should.
She loves it as well. Yeah. For me, I go
up there and I just injure myself. I can't see
what I'm doing. I've got, for say, the listeners. I've
got visual impairment, which particularly affects detail and like depth
perception and also patching. My sort of middle vision is
(29:13):
much worse than the rest, but it means I just
I'm not avoiding nettles, sticks, badger strike, which is a
great danger up there. You always have to carry a
large stick in case of badger strike because if a
badger locks onto your ankle, they will increase the pressure
(29:37):
of their jaw until your ankle snaps. So you have
to always carry a large stick with you when in
the allotment, and if you snap it, it tricks the
badger into believing it's snapped your leg. This is a
true fact. That is a wild fact. It's not a fact.
(29:58):
It's a factoid. Call that one. But most of the
record was was built, was built in the it was
written in the in the shed there, but some of
it at the dining room table as well.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Okay, you know, so you've so you but so you've
got I'd say you've got your sixty pounds per year
out worth out of it, even if you you've not
particularly enjoyed the the reason, the real reason for an allotment,
because you've just turned you've turned it into a writing
space to write a new record.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I don't know if that's even allowed. I hope they
never hear this. Okay, we've got that out, but you
know it's the truth, so let's embrace it. Yeah, no,
it's it's yeah. We just I need to up my
game in the house a bit, just take a bit
of pressure off Sally there so you can do more
(30:52):
in the allotment.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I suppose this is connected to allotments. This is my segue.
Here's a clunky segue. Because allotments are often thought of
to be for older people. Shall I say this is
how i'm This is how i'm this is how I'm
swinging us around. We're in year apart in age actually
really yeah, twenty four, yes, I'm twenty four as well.
(31:28):
How are you finding your early forties?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
This has become one of my things I like to
talk about the most because I'm trying to I think
I'm trying to work for it myself. So I like
to ask other people who are my age, and I
can sort of compare notes and say, how's it going
for you?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah? So the two difficult yes, I've described before. I
didn't actually describe them, but I mentioned them. I won't
describe them with it's okay, but I thought, what I
can't tell us whether there were situation based like to
do with what was going on, or a product of
being middle aged. It's difficult to know I've gone through
exactly the same thing. It's difficult to know.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I've found that being born in the years we were born,
I was also turning forty as as you would have
been in that pandemic time. So that's that's one of
the big things where I think, is this a situation
thing or is this an age thing? They sort of
(32:29):
just collided at the same time. But you feel you're
through that now, you feeling if because now that I'm
in it, I'm I think I'm okay with it now.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I think I've come through the other side. I've pushed through.
Are you one year older or younger than me? I
think that another I am. I'm forty two. Yeah, that's
what I thought about. If I've been one older, I
don't think I would have brought it up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, I think I feel a little bit. While I'm
hopeful it's the same. Like I've been feeling much better
this year, and yeah, I got things on the go.
I don't know what that is. Maybe I was chatting
with my Parlana about it last night and she's feeling
she's just under forty and feeling some of the same things,
feeling like a little bit of like invisibility and or
(33:25):
in like redundancy just a terrible word, but yeah, like
what's what? What's our place here? I think there's this
added thing for men maybe in the light of like
post me too. But I've got to stress there like
(33:45):
that's only a good thing. It's but it's maybe a
reason why a lot of guys are like sort of
pondering their place. But I think that's healthy. Isn't it
taken too much of a grant? I certainly have in
the yea, yeah, the previous forty three years or well,
probably not the first twelve years. I didn't think too
(34:07):
much about sixteen, you know, I know, let's not put
a date on it. So that's in the mix. And
then I think as well, all of the around like
things that are rising up with the social media and
this new wave of masculinism is finding your place and
(34:29):
all of that is it's quite tricky maybe as well.
You just get past some things you just realize. You know.
There's that scene in The Straight Story where Richard Farnsworth, Ah,
it's fantastic watch that tonight. Okay, Richard Farnsworth playing Alvin Straight.
(34:50):
Somebody asked him what's what's the best thing about getting old,
and he says, well, he learned to separate the week
from the chef. I think that is true to her. Yeah, yeah,
I think it is a certain degree.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Were you growing up, were you what type of person
were you growing up? Were you ever an old soul?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah? I always like to be around old, older people, okay,
and I always like call myself an old soul. I
think I was probably just a bit of a dick, Honestly,
I'm not even I'm not trying to be facetious that like,
just because because of the associations with being old, that
you're somehow wise or something. I think I was trying
(35:29):
to project like somehow I don't know, right, Yeah. But
and then you actually hit forties and you sort of go,
this is kind of a roller coaster, and me really
subtle ways, I wasn't expecting, like I didn't know that
I was going to becoming deeply fretful every time that
I would get on a train about whether there'd be
(35:51):
room on the rack for my bag.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Deeply fretful, right, And that had become an anxiety for you.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
How are you with?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Do you drive? Okay? Because I think I can't see
Oh yeah, of course that is rude your face in it, okay, yeah,
because that becomes I think, but I think that becomes
a similar threatful feeling for people as they get older,
of finding parking spaces and worrying that they're not going
(36:19):
to be out of park so they get to town
at like six am to an empty car.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Is it related with like the comforts in life and
you start to expect, you know, you get used to
certain things and you sort of want it to be
this way, but you can't always choose. I sort of
feel like this is in play for me a little bit,
(36:44):
like a bit of entitlement.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all the buzzwords, all the red flags,
Yeah yeah, you know you've got to keep an eye.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah. I feel like like that, like you want to
control the situation a bit more. There's something you feel
like in your forties you should be a little bit
more in control. But of course it's all it's all
illusion in it. Are you up for it?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Here is one I This would have been when I
was forty. I think I bought a new winter coat
and it was like dark green m and I bought it,
and I thought, what am I?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Like? Is this me? Now?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Am I just gonna always buy dark green clothes or
dark blue clothes or black clothes? So I thought, no,
I'm going to push back against it. I mean, as
midlife crisis, I think this is okay. But I bought
a bright yellow north Face puffer jacket. Do it look
like yeah, I did, and I thought, but I'm now
on the fence about it. I wear it probably about
(37:55):
maybe like three times a year since I've bought it,
I mean, and had it never entirely comfortable. But yeah,
I feel very I feel too old in it. But
then also, but then there's half of me that thinks
maybe I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet.
I don't want to. I don't want to. I want
(38:16):
to push back on it a little bit. So I'm
I'm I'm on the fence.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Would you buy? Would you buy a bright Yeah? Well,
I've got this bright green hat and I've been feeling
a bit churlish about it when I've been you that's
a bright green it is? Yeah, And it's got it
like a very brat, isn't it? Yes? Brat coded? Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I mean, I just got my first pair of pajamas.
So that's where lovely. I think you can do both, though,
I think you can keep the cat. I don't think
the cat makes you like what you are you worried
like when you put.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
The cap on? Are you thinking? Is this too much?
I think I'm not really worried about it too much,
but I do sometimes I've could it out now, but
a lot of time like looking at like some some
like stylish clothes or something, and on the rare occasions
I've actually tried them on, it just got I just
looked like me in a in a stylish jacket. It
(39:14):
doesn't marry at all, and I think there is a
bit of a desire that to stay. I still want
to cut the must what's what's the expression cut a dash?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yes, it's just not happening. I think you need to
find my my My advice would be, I think we
need to push back on it.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I don't know it gets easier as well, though, because
when you have found When I was younger, I was
so you know, you go out on the street and
just I was constantly feeling like people were looking at us.
And I think it's different in London. I was used
to feel very free here because there's so many different
kinds of people, somebody with different ways people look. Suddenly
(39:59):
what because in Newcastle it's different. People would call you
out constantly on the street if they had even shoulder
length hair, anything different going on. I know that happens
everywhere a bit, but it was really extreme and so
I think it still takes a while to break that.
But I think these kind of things, you just got
(40:20):
to let it go, haven't you. Like I feel like
a bit embarrassed about my weight because I'm a short,
round man with a head like a giant tennis ball.
That's when I look in the mirror, I see Ryan Goslin.
(40:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Sometimes, isn't that wonderful though, that you can see that
because I'm the same. And then I'll see, especially if
I see a video of.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Myself, see Ryan Gosling too.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
No, No, I see like a sort of man.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I feel. I played. I played.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
I used to play football religiously as a kid until
I was about fifteen, and then I just knocked it
all on the head. And last in the summer, I
played my first game of football since then in a
charity five a side tournament. We put a little team
into it, and my wife did a little film of
(41:28):
our team playing, and I thought, when I was on
that pitch, I thought, I've still got it.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I'm flying around here.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Some of these some of the touches were just exquisite.
And I saw the video of it, and I looked
probably about ninety years old. By a movement was so
I was like.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Hunched like a broken row button. I couldn't run, and
it was horrific. It's terrible, I think you. Yeah, any
footage you see back from of yourself, you're just it's awful,
isn't it, Because you're you're, you're seeing the way you
move as well.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
It's it's work. It's way worse than an image. Yeah,
because an image you can almost just say, well, that's
a bad side.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
But the thing about it is you wouldn't, at least
I don't, and I don't imagine you do. You don't
look at people with the same critical eye as you do.
You don't weigh people up for how they're moving or
what their body shape is. You just think, oh, they
look fantastic. Generally got a lovely green cap on looking good. Yeah,
(42:28):
you's got a lovely playing green code looks it's fitting
in nicely.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
There's a song on the record called Bullies, which there's
a few songs. I mean, to be honest, what we
could have done on this podcast You're You're, You're. I
think you're on interviewer's dream in a way, especially in
like a podcast format, because your songs have got so
many great lyrics and there's.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
So many jump off points.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Jump off points, yeah, you would call them. But the
song Bully has got a line in it which was
so nostalgic to me, and it's it's where you say,
I mean the hot the entire line that the whole
sort of couple is blanked by my best mates taxed
at the school gates and the use of the word
(43:17):
tax it really took me back to school.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Well that's good because I think that must be of
particular time. Yes, I would.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Guess, yeah, yeah, And I haven't heard that since anyone.
Anyone listening is thinking what does that mean? It means
you know that someone robs something off you. They basically snatch,
snatch whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I got text although it's come back in doesn't it?
In young in a? Is it generation alpha? I heard
about phantom tax is when you nick food off your mate.
To play it right, it's phantom tax. I don't understand it. Okay,
what's the fan the idea? And that's got to be
some references. It's only now that I mentioned it that
(43:58):
I started to wonder about that demology and whether there
was anything trouble And.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
When did you start writing lyrically in the way that
you do to like include such sort of everyday things
and stories, and like when did that happen for you
or when you first wrote a song? Did it just
come out that way in what people would now know
as the Richard Dawson style of songs?
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't really remember. I know
I was making songs since I was well, since I
got a guitar. That was the first thing I wanted
to do. But like so I played up till probably
twenty four to twenty five, and then I had a
year and a half off because I don't know, I
was just lost lost with it. But what I'd been
doing off to that point were these very internal, just
(44:50):
not very good songs with the kind of what I
would call stock lines, you know, about how I'm feeling
my heart all of this, etc. And then had some
time off that and did some of the music things,
and then came back and started again, and I think it,
(45:11):
you know, it's still was pretty bad, but trying to
write a bit more. I was thinking about it a
bit more, and I was reading a lot more about
that as well, maybe thinking about it in terms of
like not so much songwriting, but I was thinking more
about books and films. Well, how do I I don't know,
(45:36):
but I'm not sure what. I think it's very gradual process.
I mean I talked quite a lot over the last
well forever about a songwriter in Newcastle, nev Clay, and
he has always been somebody who's song about, you know,
like the details of his life in Long Benton and
just you know, things that happened on the bus. He's
(46:00):
got a great song about Hedgerow the new song, things
happening down the chippy in the show, and things that
you wouldn't normally associate with the or you typically with
poetry you do in American lyrics. I think it's much
more common these these small details, but somehow we don't
(46:21):
see our own stuff as being worthy of poetry. Yeah.
So I think he's been a big, huge inspiration to me.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
And can you remember what the first song you wrote
was that You're like, oh, this is better.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I think it's probably a wooden bag. That was a
good one. And I was thinking about the structure more
and it was the first time I sort of really
paid attention, and yeah, I remember thinking, that's got something
that's the structure is doing a lot of the the
work there, there's no I think I've decided at the start, Okay,
(47:00):
let's let's not have anything happen here and let's just
hone in on the stuff in this bag. And then
I realized there was still stuff happening, and that was
the structure was was kind of suggesting what that narrative was.
So it was a little bit accidental, but at the
(47:22):
same time it was kind of half deliberate, this idea
of making it's kind of thinking about the song in
terms of like the shape, how how it would look
on a graph or in a painting. And yeah, from
kicked on from there, I think.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, one final question before we go there, as as
it's Christmas coming up, the track on the album You
Love Christmas.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I fucking hate it? Do you am? I allowed to
swear on the program?
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Not a fan that Okay. My question was going to
be have you ever been to the boxing day or
stay sales?
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, but that's a Christmasy thing. Yeah, but
maybe actually I think it's probably the most anti Christmas
protest you can do, isn't it? Going to the going
to the shops on Boxing Day rather than Christmas.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
I've enjoyed Christmas a little bit more since I've been
in a relationship, yeah, because I never really was before.
It was terrible time, just everything, you know, everything coming home.
But it's much nicer now. But I've just got a
limited's sod training. Everybody wants to meet.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Have a nice time. It's terrible. It's nice to there's
some nice things about it. I can see that, but
it's just too much too, There's just too much of it.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
It's too discombobulating. And you know you mentioned the pandemic before,
like it was a taboo at the time. The first part,
it was like a dream for me, honestly, Like Christmas no, no,
the first pandemic. Yeah, it's quiet and just reading, being
in the house, have a walk once a day, not
(49:13):
seeing anyone apart from when you choose to maybe like
twice a week on zoom. This was brilliant and Christmas
is like the opposite of that. Just it's just too much.
But me and Sally going to go to the Yorkshire
Dales where her mom is in a little village and
(49:36):
we'll have four days. That would be really nice because
it's like it's like a Warburton's advert.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Right, okay, beautiful, Well, have a great Christmas. Happy Christmas
Christmas everyone, good luck for next year.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Cheers and the album. It's brilliant, Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Richard Dawson, absolute hero. I thought this was just like
low key brilliance, hilarious, very very dry, very very funny.
I think you two got on very well, so many highlights.
Feel a bit scared of badgers now, must be honest.
Never thought of the badger as a violent animal.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
See. That was one of those.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Moments where I, because I'd already questioned if Richard was
lying to me previously, once he got to the badger,
I was that I don't think I can ask if
that's true.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
I don't think it is. I think it's like aban.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Vision of Richard Dawson in his suburban allotment in the
Northeast being attacked by a badger, in him beating the
badger the head with a stick. It's not what I
was expecting to come to our first episode of the
new year of Midnight Chats, but I'm very glad that
it did give me that mental image. But sixty quid
(51:06):
a year for an allotment, I've been very reasonable. How
that's good, isn't it. They should just prescribe allotments on
the on the NHS.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I think, how did you feel about us talking about
turning forty and.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
It's a long way away from me, mate, I didn't
really relate, didn't really relate to that one. I think
that's something I'll come on.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
To in due time.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
You know, my favorite of Richard's jokes was when I
said the weir a year apart and he said, oh,
you're twenty four.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
That was so quick.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
It was so quick, but it was also such an
early forties joke to make it.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Really was.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I spent the whole time listening to this conversation with
a smile on my face.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Well that's what we hope for here, isn't it. So
hopefully everyone has enjoyed that. We will be back next
week with We're not going to have a guest next week,
but we are going to do something that we hope
will be useful to listeners. We're going to look at
the year ahead and we're going to attempt to give
you some sort of diary for the year, the things
(52:11):
that are coming up that we're excited by, the big
dates that you need to know about, any albums that
we're particularly excited about when they're coming out. How the
year will broadly shap is. Yeah, how's it looking. We're
at the start of a new year. What's coming up?
What festival is going to be exciting for us? All
(52:31):
of that sort of thing. So that's going to be
next week. Please do give us a follow on Instagram.
If you're new to us, Hello for the first time.
We are at Midnight Chats Pod on Instagram. You can
DM us there. You can ask us any questions, you
can tell us how great we are on whatever you like.
What a start to the new year? Who to Nanny?
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Good Night Nanny.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
The Night Chats is a joint production between Loud and
Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart
Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,
and edited by Stuart Stubbs.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Find us on Instagram and TikTok to watch clips from
our recordings at much much more.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
We are Midnight Chats Pod.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
For more information, visit loudan Quiet dot com.
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