March 26, 2025 • 32 mins
Minnie questions Gretchen Whitmer, the 49th Governor of Michigan. Governor Whitmer shares her experience caring for her mother at the end of her life while also raising a newborn, the importance of the “real estate in between your ears,” and Minnie asks her the important question, “Is it going to be ok????”
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Do you think that we as people are able to
love unconditionally?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You know, my husband and I have that debate. Who
always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's a romantic and
I am less of a romantic.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I learn a lot from my dog and from my child,
yes I mean, and from my boyfriend too, who he
does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem to have
a lot more conditions.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Maybe maybe it's a female thing too.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Maybe it is a female thing.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It
was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
other player's true nature.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
In asking different.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
People the same set of questions, you can make observations
about which truths appear to be universal. And it made
me wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping
off point, what greater depths would be revealed if I
asked these questions as conversation starters. So I adapted Pru's
questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I
personally think are pertinent to a person's story. They are
(01:14):
when and where were you happiest. What is the quality
you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Love for you?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
What question would you most like answered, What person, place,
or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
your last meal? And can you tell me something in
your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And
I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
(01:43):
to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest
today is is Governor of the State of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
(02:03):
Governor Whitmer is an open, articulate, fantastically strong public servant.
I like that term better than politician because there's an
honesty and lack of hubrius present in it, qualities that
I think Governor Whitmer also exemplifies. I was really excited
to have her on my show for lots of reasons,
but like you, the main one being so I could
(02:24):
ask is it going to be okay, to which she replied, yes,
so few. She said, in politics and in moments like this,
we just have to remain resilient and forward facing. There
is a deeply sensible and reliable aura that I felt
from Governor Whitmer. She speaks with the same resolve about
(02:47):
feeling positive about the future as she does sharing incredibly
painful memories from her life, her attempt at kidnapping and
the sexual assault she experienced while in college. All of
these things have created a resilient and a voice that
is inspiring, and I, for one, am incredibly glad that
voice exists in the American political arena today. Governor Whitman's book,
(03:11):
True Gritch What I've Learned about Life, leadership, and everything
in between, came out last year.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Would you tell me where and when you were happiest?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I love the question because I reflected, you know, on
various points in my life. When I think, one of
the hardest times in my life was when I was
pregnant with my first daughter, but also taking care of
my mom at the end of her life, and my
mom was dying of brain cancer. She was only fifty
nine at the time, and I was pregnant and brought
(03:45):
this new little girl into the world, who I named
after my mom. And I remember having some really peaceful,
happy moments despite it being so tough losing my mom
and the sadness that came with that, but being able
to focus on the future in really.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Hard time trimes.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I felt really at peace and very happy during those
early years of my daughter's life.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Oh my gosh, and your mom met your baby daughter,
she did?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, you always hear those stories about people that
defy odds or live longer because they have something to
look forward to. And I was always a little skeptical,
but I saw it in my mom. She was given
four to six months to live and lived for over
eighteen months and saw the birth of her first grandchild,
(04:37):
who became her namesake. And I think it was good healthcare,
was good attitude, supportive family, but also something to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's incredible, actually our intention, Like look at that, intending
to prolong our life because we want to do something,
we forget to believe. We forget to believe in the
power of our intention and the idea of setting our course.
Like I love that your mum set the coordinates. What
I am going to meet my granddaughter, and I love
(05:09):
the idea that death was no match for that, for
that intention.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That real estate between your two ears, my father always says,
is the most valuable right, because what you think, your
intention that drives so much of what your reality.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Is, it really does.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But you, I think so often we get swayed by
we get swayed by what is circumstantial. So we get
swayed by the day we wake up it's raining, the
gas has been turned off, and we've broken up with
our partner, and we align ourselves with the awfulness of
that as opposed to the thing that solves for all
(05:50):
of that, which is what is inside. I wish they
taught it in school. I wish that the idea of
intention setting and aligning yourself with the best possible outcome
even when things look really dire. I talk about it
a lot with my son, actually, particularly in these days
where it really feels like the sky is falling in
(06:12):
in a lot of ways in our world. The best
thing I found to say to him is to keep
looking for the good and to keep aligning with that,
and to not give the airtime or the energy to
all of that roiling horror that's going to roil and
horror and do its thing. But what we have to
(06:34):
do is to stay for the focused. And it's really difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It's a discipline. It feels like a profound spiritual practice.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
It is a practice.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I think, you know, one of the things that
I've come to realize and really appreciate is we all
have control.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It feels like so much is out of our control
and so.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Much is but we all have control about what we
take in from the world, in what we put out
into the world. And I'm always my girls, And even
on the hardest days, I sit down and I rate
three good things that happened, or three things for which
I'm grateful. And so some days it's my dogs and
a glass of wine and the Great British Baking Show.
(07:16):
But I find something for which I'm grateful.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I have the same three.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I have the same three, the same tree list.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
That's a good list right there.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And what would you counter with, you know, in those
moments where it feels because let's face it, it can
feel tidal when things that are outside of our control,
whether it's politics or what we see going on globally
or whatever is going on personally, in our lives when
it feels tidal. Do you really feel that sitting down
(07:45):
and counting your making a gratitude list in that moment,
is that really can stave off the tide of fear
or negative thinking.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I do.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I really believe that that practice has helped me navigate
some of the hardest, most unimaginable things I could have
ever fathomed. I'm an ordinary person, but I serve in
a really extraordinary rule, and it's an extraordinary time in
which to serve. And even at the end of the day,
sitting down and feeling overwhelmed and we all feel that
(08:19):
on occasion, but centering back to three things for which
I'm grateful will help me look at the next ten
yards instead of getting overwhelmed by the next one hundred,
and helps me manage I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I mean, oh my gosh, If you're doing that from
the point of governance, that makes ess Actually, I find
that incredibly positive because you're a human being tasked.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
With a big job. But I like the.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Idea that you can keep things grossroots in a way
to manage those big things.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That's really useful.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, I think you know at fifty three years old
and with my mother who died at fifty nine. I
do think what happens after this life, That's a question
I would love to know the answer to, and I
never will and I would you have to be at
peace with that, because there's I will never know for
(09:27):
sure until it happens. But I think that's one that
is always kind of in the background of my head.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
How do I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
The moment I'm in now and stay in the moment
and recognize I won't ever get the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I mean, I think that's I think what's interesting is
there's an answer in what you just said that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I wonder if we knew, would.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We allow ourselves to be as present in this life,
if we were so busy focused on or going, oh,
it doesn't matter what I do now, because I'm going
to my immortality and all these.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Good things are going to happen there.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I wonder if that's maybe that's part of it, that
we wouldn't be as present if we were so certain.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
One of the quotes, I think it is Carl Sagan
but said we all began to stardust, and we will
all go back to stardust. One day something to that effect,
and we're all connected and we existed in some form always,
and that gives me some peace. But I'm searching. I'm
a searcher.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I mean me too. I guess it's knowing. It
wouldn't look it probably doesn't look like this. Like when
I think about my mum or my dad, both of
who've died, I can feel them so specifically, but I
can't see them.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Obviously, I can't hug them, but.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I feel them in the same in that same way.
That's not a memory of love. It feels way more
present than that. So I quite like the mystery. I
quite like the mystery because mystery and gender's faith, and
perhaps that's the most that we can have as humans,
because we just have no idea why we are here,
(11:13):
what the meaning is. Love seems to be the biggest
one I could ever point to. Yeah, but I like
that Carl Sagan quote, You're right, we're dust.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It can sound pejorative, you're dust, and then it can
also sound incredibly positive, your stardust star dust.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Can you tell me something in your life that has
grown out of a personal disaster?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I wrote a book recently, and you know, part of
the reason I wrote it is people would often ask,
with all the threats I've gotten and all of the
crises I've had to lead through, why do I want
to keep doing this? Why do I still feel optimistic?
And I thought, I'm going to give people reasons why
they should feel optimistic and things that I've learned in
(12:13):
my life that have helped.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Me navigate this.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And one of the things that people responded most kind
of strongly too, was in the book I talk about
listening and the power of listening and why more people
need to cultivate that strength. I think it's a superpower.
I'd like to understand from the men who were involved
in a plot to kidnap and kill me, I would
(12:38):
like to understand why. I would actually like to meet
with one of them and ask them why and understand
what was going on in their lives. And people have
thought that's kind of a strange thing to say, I
get it, but maybe there's something to learn that will
help me be a better governor or a better human being.
(13:00):
Because it was unusual in a country of three hundred
and thirty million people that about a dozen chose to
put together a plot to kidnap and kill a sitting governor.
So what was happening there and what was going on
in their lives that maybe there's some good that can
come from us.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
I haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I'd like to do, but there's still all sorts of appeals,
so I can't do it yet, But one day i'd
like to. I'd like to see if I can understand
something or learn something.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think that is an astonishing way to approach what
is unfathomable for all of us. I think that will
be an amazing book, and I really hope that you
write it and examine those ideas. But God, I'm so
sorry that happened to you. It's a poetry thing, but
I am assuming that you will turn it into something
(13:48):
else down the line. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
A therapist once said to me, we're all a ball
of clay, and sometimes things are taken away from us.
It's not our fault. Something's taken away. And when a
ball of clay is hollowed out, it becomes a cup,
a vessel, and it has purpose. And so I think
that's maybe a piece of wisdom that someone gave to
me that has helped me find value even in really tough,
(14:15):
unfair stuff that happens.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
That's such a good way of putting it personally in like,
for you, how do you know when something that has
been lost or removed or is painful.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Is something that needs to be let go of? And
how do you know when it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Is something that can be turned into something else?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I don't know, dang it, I really did think.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
I think it reveals itself, you know, Minnie.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I often think about as I'm a survivor of sexual
assault when I was in college and I had not.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Talked about it publicly for decades. I'd shared it with
a few partners over the.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Years, but I had never spoken about it publicly. And
we were having a very difficult debate in the Michigan
legislature and I had revealed that I'd been raped in
college during the debate. I had not planned to do it,
And in the aftermath of it, I needed to call
my dad on the way home from work because I
knew it would be in the news and I wanted
(15:19):
him to hear from me instead of on the news.
And anyway, I carried that with me in silence for
twenty years, and then I spoke about it, and then
I got more comfortable speaking about it and realize that
it's given me purpose. And now as a champion for
women's reproductive rights, I can see that my experience, even
(15:42):
though it was hideous and I would never want anyone
else to go through it, I have found my voice
in it and it's given me purpose. And that's maybe
the most visceral example. But I didn't know that it
had any purpose until twenty years after the event when
I shared it, And now it's become a part of
(16:02):
my how I try to persuade people about supporting reproductive rates.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I think that's extraordinary, and that is quite literally the
I'm assuming earning something terrible into something good. But also
I think those things take time to marinate. They take
time for us to be able to articulate in a
(16:29):
way that will be heard. Because particularly around this, but
particularly we look at women who have not been believed
for so long, around sexual assault of rape kits sitting
in police stations, unused, and women not being believed. It
feels very much that in a way, we were waiting
(16:49):
for women to come to a place where they could
articulate this agony in a way that was going to
be that was going to reach ears like I want
of twenty years ago, if anyone would have heard you
when you talked about it in the way that you
can speak about it now, which from I've heard you
(17:10):
speak on it a little in the past. It is
so clear, it is so without self pity, even though
you would have every right to feel that way. And
more than that, it is galvanizing, and that to me,
that galvanizing means change is possible, and also that anyone
listening whould also suffered from that will feel stronger because
(17:31):
of it. So I wonder again, like the divine timing
of the time when we are able to speak about
terrible things again, it's a superpower. It's a superpower to
be able to turn that stuff into something else. Gosh,
the more I say this, I really do hope that
you write your book because I think a lot of
(17:53):
people for whom who feel powerless in their lives over
either situations or their emotions, would really benefit.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So, can you tell me what person, place, or experience
most altered your life.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I think the time that I was taking care of
my mom at the end of her life and my
daughter at the beginning of hers. You know, they say
that the five most stressful events that ever happen in
a course of a lifetime are moving your home, starting
a new job, the birth of a loved one, the
death of a loved one, and a new marriage. And
(18:36):
I did all five of those things the span of
a year and a half when I was newly elected
state representative in Michigan, caring for my mom at the
end of her life. I just had my daughter after
getting married, and for whatever reason, I decided that was
a good time to move my home.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Too, which was crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But it was that period of time that was, without
question that the heaviest and hardest, but also really made
me who I am today. I don't have patience for bs.
I want to get things done, and I had to
find an insurance company at that time and figure out
(19:14):
how to keep nursing my daughter and prepare for work,
and it was a really difficult time in my life,
but it forged who I am today. And so without question,
that's what I would point to is having given me
the skills to navigate a pandemic and get a state
of ten million people through some of the most incredible challenges.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
It was that period of time for me.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Wow, Wow. I mean, I don't know how you did it.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Truly, I don't know how you did one of those things,
because I've been through a few of them, and britt
to have been simultaneous is extraordinary. Did you find that,
I think women often become a centrifuge in certainly like
within a family and when things are happening incredibly focused
and organized. Did you find that people showed up to
(20:07):
really help that once you knew what it was you.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Had to do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You had to be there for your mother, you had
to be there for your baby daughter, you had to
move your home, and you had to govern ten million people.
Did you find that people came into your sphere to
really support and help you.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Absolutely? I am really fortunate.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I've got wonderful friends and extended family and a team
around me that I couldn't have done any of it
without a lot of people having chipped in and been
a part of it.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
And it's interesting too.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I think it reaffirms why it's so important that we
have diverse groups of.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
People in decision making places.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
A lot of my male counterparts, my brother, didn't have
the same lived experience I did, even though he was
alive at the same time, and so when there is
a woman at the table, when there's a debate around
healthcare or childcare, it's so important because it's not just
about women, but we have a different experience taking care.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Of our dads or our brothers or our sons.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It helps everyone, and I think that, for me is
one of the most important takeaways from all those hardships,
is that we need diversity around tables to make better decisions.
Companies see better bottom lines, governments see better outcomes. And
that's I think a really important lesson from all of
(21:38):
that too, that I've always always tried to keep focus on.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very interested
Why if you and I can sit here and acknowledge
that and demonstrably one can see that it is true
across the board, from corporations and within politics, why is
it so hard for it to be reflected. Why is
it so hard to be come not just policy politically,
(22:03):
but social policy. Why why when it so clearly betters everything.
Do you think there is a resistance to that kind
of diversity?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean there have been unscrupulous I think motives for
people that have tried to suggest that when you have
that kind of empowerment. It means someone gets left out
that like if you champion you know, greater diversity here,
it means it comes at the cost of another, And
(22:35):
that's not true at all.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
In fact, everyone benefits from it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But I do think that there are people with their
own agendas who try to make the case that some
people get excluded and they've benefited personally from that. But
it's a fallacy and I think it's a lesson.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
We're going to learn the hard way. Unfortunately, right now.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I was going to say, it sure feels like the
amount of times one I've heard different versions of what
you've just said, and it was completely and utterly like
it was like speaking into the wind.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Do you think that that's that? Really?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
That?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Really? Is it?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That people will sadly learn the hard way. They'll learn
through losing healthcare, they'll learn through the spread of diseases,
they'll learn through their social security essentially through their pocketbook,
and through their health are the only ways that those
lessons might be learned.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I don't savor the thought, but I think that's probably true.
I know that there are some who have voice, well,
this is what the people have asked for, and now
they're going to have to feel it right that I don't.
I don't like that philosophy. It feels so cynical and
kind of cruel. Yeah, but I do think that we
(23:53):
will see the ramifications of that, and maybe maybe that'll
help us get back to a place where people understand that.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I mean, I'm in complete agreement. It's been one
of the hardest things to understand of why a fear
led response to that, or the idea that if inclusion
means exclusion somewhere else, it's a really strange social math
(24:23):
that I guess. I hope there's a there's I hope
there's another way that that can be explained, that it
could be explained with love, so that we could all
evolve together, because the idea is not it seems to me,
this continuing division, but rather for all boats to rise
with the tide. Like why any human would want anything
(24:44):
other than that, I don't.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I don't understand, But.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
You use the right word. You said, fear, and that
that is what it's all about. Fear is a powerful motivator,
and it doesn't heal anything though.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
The only thing that can heal is love. So you've
mentioned both.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Words and I think that's really wise and a lot
of truth to it.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
But fear motivates.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
People to pull away from one another, and love brings
us together.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It also feels that love itself has been redefined and
divided in a way, the idea of what is loved
and how does one heal that in this weird like
because it feels like we're in a kind of post
truth reality where all of the guardrails around fact and
truth have been dismantled. Therefore, love itself is sort of
(25:35):
up for grabs, Whereas I feel like it used to
be something that we all agreed on what love felt like,
and now it feels like it's been co opted for
a lot of different reasons. Do you think there is
a way of getting back to a collective idea of
what love might be, which is kindness to each other
(25:56):
and our neighbors, mean to me, tolerance, and compassion.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
I do, I absolutely do. I couldn't. I couldn't do
this work.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I wouldn't want to do this work if I didn't
really believe that in my core. I'm sober about how
difficult it is and showing up, continuing to make the
choice to show up. I understand the inclination to want
to turn away, which a lot of people are feeling
right now because it does feel so heavy and overwhelming
(26:25):
and how do you fix all the misinformation in the world,
Like it's just huge and hard and heavy. But I
also have found in my own life pulling away is
the worst thing I can do. I feel worse.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I need to be in it, And I'm encouraging people
not to not to look away, but to say what
can I do today? And each of us can play
a role in that without a doubt, and important.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Role absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
What relationship, real or fictionalized defines love for you?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
You know, I love my kids more than anything on
the planet, my daughters, who I think have taught me
so much. And I think that acceptance that comes that
unconditional love. I never knew what it meant until I
had children, And so I think that is the ideal
(27:33):
scenario for what a relationship should look like, is complete
acceptance and without condition.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Do you think that's possible outside of children, because like
we quite literally made them and in a way fashion
that when they're little, when they're tiny, we are like
these good creatures who fashion sort of what they do
and think, like do you think that it's really possible
outside of an animal, because I would put dogs in
(28:01):
the same category of unconditional love. Do you think that
that we as people are able to to love unconditionally?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I don't know. You know, my husband and I have
that debate. He always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's
a romantic and I'm less of a romantic. And it's
a well, but it's it's it's not unconditional unless it's
your child. Adult relationship is different, but I think it
can be. I just think it's it's not innate.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, maybe that's it. It's something that you have to
work at. Yes, yeah, I wonder about that. I think
maybe it's just it's worth it's worth thinking about and
working on. I learn a lot from my dog and
from my child, yes, I mean, and from my boyfriend too,
who he does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem
(28:56):
to have a lot more conditions. Maybe maybe it's a
fee too, Maybe it is a female thing. What would
be your last meal?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Well, it would be it would make no sense. It's
not like it all goes together. But I would want
my grandma Esther's rolls. She used to make them from scratch,
and I looked forward to it every Thanksgiving and Christmas.
My father's homemade ice cream delicious. We used to hand
creak it as a kid, and then, of course we've
gotten much better, easier ice cream makers over the years,
(29:34):
but he makes phenomenal ice cream.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So yeah, it would be a totally curb meal.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Let me get this straight. It would be rolls and
ice cream. I love it. I absolutely love it. Do
you know we used to do this thing.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It was at someone else's house. It wasn't my mother,
but they would put cream in a jar and through
the whole of this night, this jar would go around.
Everyone would like, jiggle this jar, and jiggle this jar,
and jiggle as jar, and all.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
The kids would do it.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Everyone would riggle the jar, and by the end of
the evening it.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Had turned into butter.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And that was the most delicious thing that I have
ever eaten. Although it felt like I was hungry again
by the end because I'd burnt so many calories with
the jiggling of the jar. But there's something about homemade
food that is epic. Do you know how to make
both of those things?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Out of interest?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Can you make those rolls and can you make that
ice cream?
Speaker 5 (30:31):
We've been working on the rolls.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
My sister has perfected it thankfully, and yes, my dad
is still alive and we all have the recipe and.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's so delicious.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
How amazing when I love that that, I love that
that continues. I am so grateful to you for giving
your time, but for being a voice in our democracy
at this current moment. There are a few people who
I will go and listen to when I'm feeling down
about the state of the world, and you are one
of them. So thanks, thank you so much for your
time and your wisdom, and I just wish you all
(31:05):
the best in everything.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It was an honor to be on your podcast with you,
and I appreciate all the good you put out in
the world through this and everything else you do.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver,
Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support
from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme
music is also by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver Lisa Castella,
(31:43):
a Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A WKPR,
Will Pearson, Nicki Ittle, Morgan Levoy and mangesh Pa.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Ticketdoor
Do you think that we as people are able to
love unconditionally?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You know, my husband and I have that debate. Who
always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's a romantic and
I am less of a romantic.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I learn a lot from my dog and from my child,
yes I mean, and from my boyfriend too, who he
does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem to have
a lot more conditions.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Maybe maybe it's a female thing too.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Maybe it is a female thing.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It
was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
other player's true nature.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
In asking different.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
People the same set of questions, you can make observations
about which truths appear to be universal. And it made
me wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping
off point, what greater depths would be revealed if I
asked these questions as conversation starters. So I adapted Pru's
questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I
personally think are pertinent to a person's story. They are
(01:14):
when and where were you happiest. What is the quality
you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Love for you?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
What question would you most like answered, What person, place,
or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
your last meal? And can you tell me something in
your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And
I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
(01:43):
to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest
today is is Governor of the State of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
(02:03):
Governor Whitmer is an open, articulate, fantastically strong public servant.
I like that term better than politician because there's an
honesty and lack of hubrius present in it, qualities that
I think Governor Whitmer also exemplifies. I was really excited
to have her on my show for lots of reasons,
but like you, the main one being so I could
(02:24):
ask is it going to be okay, to which she replied, yes,
so few. She said, in politics and in moments like this,
we just have to remain resilient and forward facing. There
is a deeply sensible and reliable aura that I felt
from Governor Whitmer. She speaks with the same resolve about
(02:47):
feeling positive about the future as she does sharing incredibly
painful memories from her life, her attempt at kidnapping and
the sexual assault she experienced while in college. All of
these things have created a resilient and a voice that
is inspiring, and I, for one, am incredibly glad that
voice exists in the American political arena today. Governor Whitman's book,
(03:11):
True Gritch What I've Learned about Life, leadership, and everything
in between, came out last year.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Would you tell me where and when you were happiest?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I love the question because I reflected, you know, on
various points in my life. When I think, one of
the hardest times in my life was when I was
pregnant with my first daughter, but also taking care of
my mom at the end of her life, and my
mom was dying of brain cancer. She was only fifty
nine at the time, and I was pregnant and brought
(03:45):
this new little girl into the world, who I named
after my mom. And I remember having some really peaceful,
happy moments despite it being so tough losing my mom
and the sadness that came with that, but being able
to focus on the future in really.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Hard time trimes.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I felt really at peace and very happy during those
early years of my daughter's life.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Oh my gosh, and your mom met your baby daughter,
she did?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, you always hear those stories about people that
defy odds or live longer because they have something to
look forward to. And I was always a little skeptical,
but I saw it in my mom. She was given
four to six months to live and lived for over
eighteen months and saw the birth of her first grandchild,
(04:37):
who became her namesake. And I think it was good healthcare,
was good attitude, supportive family, but also something to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's incredible, actually our intention, Like look at that, intending
to prolong our life because we want to do something,
we forget to believe. We forget to believe in the
power of our intention and the idea of setting our course.
Like I love that your mum set the coordinates. What
I am going to meet my granddaughter, and I love
(05:09):
the idea that death was no match for that, for
that intention.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That real estate between your two ears, my father always says,
is the most valuable right, because what you think, your
intention that drives so much of what your reality.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Is, it really does.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But you, I think so often we get swayed by
we get swayed by what is circumstantial. So we get
swayed by the day we wake up it's raining, the
gas has been turned off, and we've broken up with
our partner, and we align ourselves with the awfulness of
that as opposed to the thing that solves for all
(05:50):
of that, which is what is inside. I wish they
taught it in school. I wish that the idea of
intention setting and aligning yourself with the best possible outcome
even when things look really dire. I talk about it
a lot with my son, actually, particularly in these days
where it really feels like the sky is falling in
(06:12):
in a lot of ways in our world. The best
thing I found to say to him is to keep
looking for the good and to keep aligning with that,
and to not give the airtime or the energy to
all of that roiling horror that's going to roil and
horror and do its thing. But what we have to
(06:34):
do is to stay for the focused. And it's really difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It's a discipline. It feels like a profound spiritual practice.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
It is a practice.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I think, you know, one of the things that
I've come to realize and really appreciate is we all
have control.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It feels like so much is out of our control
and so.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Much is but we all have control about what we
take in from the world, in what we put out
into the world. And I'm always my girls, And even
on the hardest days, I sit down and I rate
three good things that happened, or three things for which
I'm grateful. And so some days it's my dogs and
a glass of wine and the Great British Baking Show.
(07:16):
But I find something for which I'm grateful.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I have the same three.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I have the same three, the same tree list.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
That's a good list right there.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And what would you counter with, you know, in those
moments where it feels because let's face it, it can
feel tidal when things that are outside of our control,
whether it's politics or what we see going on globally
or whatever is going on personally, in our lives when
it feels tidal. Do you really feel that sitting down
(07:45):
and counting your making a gratitude list in that moment,
is that really can stave off the tide of fear
or negative thinking.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I do.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I really believe that that practice has helped me navigate
some of the hardest, most unimaginable things I could have
ever fathomed. I'm an ordinary person, but I serve in
a really extraordinary rule, and it's an extraordinary time in
which to serve. And even at the end of the day,
sitting down and feeling overwhelmed and we all feel that
(08:19):
on occasion, but centering back to three things for which
I'm grateful will help me look at the next ten
yards instead of getting overwhelmed by the next one hundred,
and helps me manage I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I mean, oh my gosh, If you're doing that from
the point of governance, that makes ess Actually, I find
that incredibly positive because you're a human being tasked.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
With a big job. But I like the.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Idea that you can keep things grossroots in a way
to manage those big things.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That's really useful.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, I think you know at fifty three years old
and with my mother who died at fifty nine. I
do think what happens after this life, That's a question
I would love to know the answer to, and I
never will and I would you have to be at
peace with that, because there's I will never know for
(09:27):
sure until it happens. But I think that's one that
is always kind of in the background of my head.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
How do I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
The moment I'm in now and stay in the moment
and recognize I won't ever get the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I mean, I think that's I think what's interesting is
there's an answer in what you just said that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I wonder if we knew, would.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We allow ourselves to be as present in this life,
if we were so busy focused on or going, oh,
it doesn't matter what I do now, because I'm going
to my immortality and all these.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Good things are going to happen there.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I wonder if that's maybe that's part of it, that
we wouldn't be as present if we were so certain.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
One of the quotes, I think it is Carl Sagan
but said we all began to stardust, and we will
all go back to stardust. One day something to that effect,
and we're all connected and we existed in some form always,
and that gives me some peace. But I'm searching. I'm
a searcher.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I mean me too. I guess it's knowing. It
wouldn't look it probably doesn't look like this. Like when
I think about my mum or my dad, both of
who've died, I can feel them so specifically, but I
can't see them.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Obviously, I can't hug them, but.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I feel them in the same in that same way.
That's not a memory of love. It feels way more
present than that. So I quite like the mystery. I
quite like the mystery because mystery and gender's faith, and
perhaps that's the most that we can have as humans,
because we just have no idea why we are here,
(11:13):
what the meaning is. Love seems to be the biggest
one I could ever point to. Yeah, but I like
that Carl Sagan quote, You're right, we're dust.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It can sound pejorative, you're dust, and then it can
also sound incredibly positive, your stardust star dust.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Can you tell me something in your life that has
grown out of a personal disaster?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I wrote a book recently, and you know, part of
the reason I wrote it is people would often ask,
with all the threats I've gotten and all of the
crises I've had to lead through, why do I want
to keep doing this? Why do I still feel optimistic?
And I thought, I'm going to give people reasons why
they should feel optimistic and things that I've learned in
(12:13):
my life that have helped.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Me navigate this.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And one of the things that people responded most kind
of strongly too, was in the book I talk about
listening and the power of listening and why more people
need to cultivate that strength. I think it's a superpower.
I'd like to understand from the men who were involved
in a plot to kidnap and kill me, I would
(12:38):
like to understand why. I would actually like to meet
with one of them and ask them why and understand
what was going on in their lives. And people have
thought that's kind of a strange thing to say, I
get it, but maybe there's something to learn that will
help me be a better governor or a better human being.
(13:00):
Because it was unusual in a country of three hundred
and thirty million people that about a dozen chose to
put together a plot to kidnap and kill a sitting governor.
So what was happening there and what was going on
in their lives that maybe there's some good that can
come from us.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
I haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I'd like to do, but there's still all sorts of appeals,
so I can't do it yet, But one day i'd
like to. I'd like to see if I can understand
something or learn something.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think that is an astonishing way to approach what
is unfathomable for all of us. I think that will
be an amazing book, and I really hope that you
write it and examine those ideas. But God, I'm so
sorry that happened to you. It's a poetry thing, but
I am assuming that you will turn it into something
(13:48):
else down the line. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
A therapist once said to me, we're all a ball
of clay, and sometimes things are taken away from us.
It's not our fault. Something's taken away. And when a
ball of clay is hollowed out, it becomes a cup,
a vessel, and it has purpose. And so I think
that's maybe a piece of wisdom that someone gave to
me that has helped me find value even in really tough,
(14:15):
unfair stuff that happens.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
That's such a good way of putting it personally in like,
for you, how do you know when something that has
been lost or removed or is painful.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Is something that needs to be let go of? And
how do you know when it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Is something that can be turned into something else?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I don't know, dang it, I really did think.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
I think it reveals itself, you know, Minnie.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I often think about as I'm a survivor of sexual
assault when I was in college and I had not.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Talked about it publicly for decades. I'd shared it with
a few partners over the.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Years, but I had never spoken about it publicly. And
we were having a very difficult debate in the Michigan
legislature and I had revealed that I'd been raped in
college during the debate. I had not planned to do it,
And in the aftermath of it, I needed to call
my dad on the way home from work because I
knew it would be in the news and I wanted
(15:19):
him to hear from me instead of on the news.
And anyway, I carried that with me in silence for
twenty years, and then I spoke about it, and then
I got more comfortable speaking about it and realize that
it's given me purpose. And now as a champion for
women's reproductive rights, I can see that my experience, even
(15:42):
though it was hideous and I would never want anyone
else to go through it, I have found my voice
in it and it's given me purpose. And that's maybe
the most visceral example. But I didn't know that it
had any purpose until twenty years after the event when
I shared it, And now it's become a part of
(16:02):
my how I try to persuade people about supporting reproductive rates.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I think that's extraordinary, and that is quite literally the
I'm assuming earning something terrible into something good. But also
I think those things take time to marinate. They take
time for us to be able to articulate in a
(16:29):
way that will be heard. Because particularly around this, but
particularly we look at women who have not been believed
for so long, around sexual assault of rape kits sitting
in police stations, unused, and women not being believed. It
feels very much that in a way, we were waiting
(16:49):
for women to come to a place where they could
articulate this agony in a way that was going to
be that was going to reach ears like I want
of twenty years ago, if anyone would have heard you
when you talked about it in the way that you
can speak about it now, which from I've heard you
(17:10):
speak on it a little in the past. It is
so clear, it is so without self pity, even though
you would have every right to feel that way. And
more than that, it is galvanizing, and that to me,
that galvanizing means change is possible, and also that anyone
listening whould also suffered from that will feel stronger because
(17:31):
of it. So I wonder again, like the divine timing
of the time when we are able to speak about
terrible things again, it's a superpower. It's a superpower to
be able to turn that stuff into something else. Gosh,
the more I say this, I really do hope that
you write your book because I think a lot of
(17:53):
people for whom who feel powerless in their lives over
either situations or their emotions, would really benefit.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So, can you tell me what person, place, or experience
most altered your life.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I think the time that I was taking care of
my mom at the end of her life and my
daughter at the beginning of hers. You know, they say
that the five most stressful events that ever happen in
a course of a lifetime are moving your home, starting
a new job, the birth of a loved one, the
death of a loved one, and a new marriage. And
(18:36):
I did all five of those things the span of
a year and a half when I was newly elected
state representative in Michigan, caring for my mom at the
end of her life. I just had my daughter after
getting married, and for whatever reason, I decided that was
a good time to move my home.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Too, which was crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But it was that period of time that was, without
question that the heaviest and hardest, but also really made
me who I am today. I don't have patience for bs.
I want to get things done, and I had to
find an insurance company at that time and figure out
(19:14):
how to keep nursing my daughter and prepare for work,
and it was a really difficult time in my life,
but it forged who I am today. And so without question,
that's what I would point to is having given me
the skills to navigate a pandemic and get a state
of ten million people through some of the most incredible challenges.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
It was that period of time for me.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Wow, Wow. I mean, I don't know how you did it.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Truly, I don't know how you did one of those things,
because I've been through a few of them, and britt
to have been simultaneous is extraordinary. Did you find that,
I think women often become a centrifuge in certainly like
within a family and when things are happening incredibly focused
and organized. Did you find that people showed up to
(20:07):
really help that once you knew what it was you.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Had to do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You had to be there for your mother, you had
to be there for your baby daughter, you had to
move your home, and you had to govern ten million people.
Did you find that people came into your sphere to
really support and help you.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Absolutely? I am really fortunate.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I've got wonderful friends and extended family and a team
around me that I couldn't have done any of it
without a lot of people having chipped in and been
a part of it.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
And it's interesting too.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I think it reaffirms why it's so important that we
have diverse groups of.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
People in decision making places.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
A lot of my male counterparts, my brother, didn't have
the same lived experience I did, even though he was
alive at the same time, and so when there is
a woman at the table, when there's a debate around
healthcare or childcare, it's so important because it's not just
about women, but we have a different experience taking care.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Of our dads or our brothers or our sons.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It helps everyone, and I think that, for me is
one of the most important takeaways from all those hardships,
is that we need diversity around tables to make better decisions.
Companies see better bottom lines, governments see better outcomes. And
that's I think a really important lesson from all of
(21:38):
that too, that I've always always tried to keep focus on.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very interested
Why if you and I can sit here and acknowledge
that and demonstrably one can see that it is true
across the board, from corporations and within politics, why is
it so hard for it to be reflected. Why is
it so hard to be come not just policy politically,
(22:03):
but social policy. Why why when it so clearly betters everything.
Do you think there is a resistance to that kind
of diversity?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean there have been unscrupulous I think motives for
people that have tried to suggest that when you have
that kind of empowerment. It means someone gets left out
that like if you champion you know, greater diversity here,
it means it comes at the cost of another, And
(22:35):
that's not true at all.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
In fact, everyone benefits from it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
But I do think that there are people with their
own agendas who try to make the case that some
people get excluded and they've benefited personally from that. But
it's a fallacy and I think it's a lesson.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
We're going to learn the hard way. Unfortunately, right now.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I was going to say, it sure feels like the
amount of times one I've heard different versions of what
you've just said, and it was completely and utterly like
it was like speaking into the wind.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Do you think that that's that? Really?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
That?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Really? Is it?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That people will sadly learn the hard way. They'll learn
through losing healthcare, they'll learn through the spread of diseases,
they'll learn through their social security essentially through their pocketbook,
and through their health are the only ways that those
lessons might be learned.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I don't savor the thought, but I think that's probably true.
I know that there are some who have voice, well,
this is what the people have asked for, and now
they're going to have to feel it right that I don't.
I don't like that philosophy. It feels so cynical and
kind of cruel. Yeah, but I do think that we
(23:53):
will see the ramifications of that, and maybe maybe that'll
help us get back to a place where people understand that.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I mean, I'm in complete agreement. It's been one
of the hardest things to understand of why a fear
led response to that, or the idea that if inclusion
means exclusion somewhere else, it's a really strange social math
(24:23):
that I guess. I hope there's a there's I hope
there's another way that that can be explained, that it
could be explained with love, so that we could all
evolve together, because the idea is not it seems to me,
this continuing division, but rather for all boats to rise
with the tide. Like why any human would want anything
(24:44):
other than that, I don't.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I don't understand, But.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
You use the right word. You said, fear, and that
that is what it's all about. Fear is a powerful motivator,
and it doesn't heal anything though.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
The only thing that can heal is love. So you've
mentioned both.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Words and I think that's really wise and a lot
of truth to it.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
But fear motivates.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
People to pull away from one another, and love brings
us together.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It also feels that love itself has been redefined and
divided in a way, the idea of what is loved
and how does one heal that in this weird like
because it feels like we're in a kind of post
truth reality where all of the guardrails around fact and
truth have been dismantled. Therefore, love itself is sort of
(25:35):
up for grabs, Whereas I feel like it used to
be something that we all agreed on what love felt like,
and now it feels like it's been co opted for
a lot of different reasons. Do you think there is
a way of getting back to a collective idea of
what love might be, which is kindness to each other
(25:56):
and our neighbors, mean to me, tolerance, and compassion.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
I do, I absolutely do. I couldn't. I couldn't do
this work.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I wouldn't want to do this work if I didn't
really believe that in my core. I'm sober about how
difficult it is and showing up, continuing to make the
choice to show up. I understand the inclination to want
to turn away, which a lot of people are feeling
right now because it does feel so heavy and overwhelming
(26:25):
and how do you fix all the misinformation in the world,
Like it's just huge and hard and heavy. But I
also have found in my own life pulling away is
the worst thing I can do. I feel worse.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I need to be in it, And I'm encouraging people
not to not to look away, but to say what
can I do today? And each of us can play
a role in that without a doubt, and important.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Role absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
What relationship, real or fictionalized defines love for you?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
You know, I love my kids more than anything on
the planet, my daughters, who I think have taught me
so much. And I think that acceptance that comes that
unconditional love. I never knew what it meant until I
had children, And so I think that is the ideal
(27:33):
scenario for what a relationship should look like, is complete
acceptance and without condition.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Do you think that's possible outside of children, because like
we quite literally made them and in a way fashion
that when they're little, when they're tiny, we are like
these good creatures who fashion sort of what they do
and think, like do you think that it's really possible
outside of an animal, because I would put dogs in
(28:01):
the same category of unconditional love. Do you think that
that we as people are able to to love unconditionally?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I don't know. You know, my husband and I have
that debate. He always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's
a romantic and I'm less of a romantic. And it's
a well, but it's it's it's not unconditional unless it's
your child. Adult relationship is different, but I think it
can be. I just think it's it's not innate.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, maybe that's it. It's something that you have to
work at. Yes, yeah, I wonder about that. I think
maybe it's just it's worth it's worth thinking about and
working on. I learn a lot from my dog and
from my child, yes, I mean, and from my boyfriend too,
who he does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem
(28:56):
to have a lot more conditions. Maybe maybe it's a
fee too, Maybe it is a female thing. What would
be your last meal?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Well, it would be it would make no sense. It's
not like it all goes together. But I would want
my grandma Esther's rolls. She used to make them from scratch,
and I looked forward to it every Thanksgiving and Christmas.
My father's homemade ice cream delicious. We used to hand
creak it as a kid, and then, of course we've
gotten much better, easier ice cream makers over the years,
(29:34):
but he makes phenomenal ice cream.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
So yeah, it would be a totally curb meal.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Let me get this straight. It would be rolls and
ice cream. I love it. I absolutely love it. Do
you know we used to do this thing.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It was at someone else's house. It wasn't my mother,
but they would put cream in a jar and through
the whole of this night, this jar would go around.
Everyone would like, jiggle this jar, and jiggle this jar,
and jiggle as jar, and all.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
The kids would do it.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Everyone would riggle the jar, and by the end of
the evening it.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Had turned into butter.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And that was the most delicious thing that I have
ever eaten. Although it felt like I was hungry again
by the end because I'd burnt so many calories with
the jiggling of the jar. But there's something about homemade
food that is epic. Do you know how to make
both of those things?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Out of interest?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Can you make those rolls and can you make that
ice cream?
Speaker 5 (30:31):
We've been working on the rolls.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
My sister has perfected it thankfully, and yes, my dad
is still alive and we all have the recipe and.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's so delicious.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
How amazing when I love that that, I love that
that continues. I am so grateful to you for giving
your time, but for being a voice in our democracy
at this current moment. There are a few people who
I will go and listen to when I'm feeling down
about the state of the world, and you are one
of them. So thanks, thank you so much for your
time and your wisdom, and I just wish you all
(31:05):
the best in everything.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It was an honor to be on your podcast with you,
and I appreciate all the good you put out in
the world through this and everything else you do.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver,
Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support
from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme
music is also by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver Lisa Castella,
(31:43):
a Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A WKPR,
Will Pearson, Nicki Ittle, Morgan Levoy and mangesh Pa.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
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Minnie Driver
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