December 3, 2020 • 11 mins
Stephanie is joined by MSNBC Columnist Liz Plank to discuss how sex and dating have changed during COVID. And Liz shares her experience of meeting her long-term boyfriend on a social distance date during quarantine.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And you're meeting someone in a moment of crisis, right,
You're meeting someone in a moment where I think, especially
at the beginning, I couldn't hide who I was. I
couldn't really you can't have small talk. What is small talk?
During COVID we are now left like really staring into
each other's eyes with no frills, And I think that
(00:22):
it forces us to think outside of the box when
it comes to dating. COVID has changed basically every aspect
of our daily lives, work, school, going out to eat,
seeing friends, seeing family, entertaining any social lives whatsoever. Another
thing that's changed dating our love lives. Some nights, after
(00:45):
a long day of working from home, school from home,
everything from home, I look at the dishes that are
piled up in my sink. I listened to my kids
who are not showered, haven't done their homework, are fighting
like cats and dogs. And I asked myself, what would
all of this be like if I was going through
COVID single. Overall, quarantine and pandemic life have been isolating
(01:07):
and lonely, even for those of us who aren't living alone.
We're losing out on social interactions, personal connections, and of course,
physical touch, so it's not surprising that people found a
way around this and found love even from a distance.
I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC Anchor, NBC News Senior Correspondent, and
this is Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and
(01:29):
I Heart Radio. On this episode of Modern Rules, we're
asking what it's like to date, find love, and have
sex during COVID, and I found the perfect perfect guest
for this conversation, the one and only Liz Plank. She
is a superstar human, but she's also an MSNBC columnist,
(01:53):
and she took on an amazing and very daring assignment
where she chronicled part of her dating life during the
early months of COVID. Liz, I'm so glad you're here.
I'm so excited to be here with you. For so
many of us who may have been mired in homework
and making food, I think we forgot that we were
(02:16):
surrounded by a lot of people and that chaos is comforting.
But for people who are single, can you just walk
me through what was it like in the early days.
I think it was very daunting and very scary. COVID
has shown us on a societal level, who we are right.
It showed us who we are in relationship with ourselves,
(02:37):
and it's shown us who we are in relationships with
other people. You know, if you're single, you're extra single.
If you're married, you're extra married. If you have kids,
you extra have kids, right, So everything is amplified in
you doing this piece and researching what has it really
been like? Well, what I found is that there's a
(02:58):
lot of people who are struggling. When I've talked to
people about this, what I've been sort of amazed by
is the diversity of the responses. There are people who say, actually,
I've had more time to date than ever, and there's
a lot of people who feel lonely. And when it
comes to dating, I think feeling like you're gonna lose
one more year or two more years, not knowing when
(03:20):
the next time you'll be able to go on a
date again is very scary. So you're already feeling alone,
You're already feeling scared. Everything is very uncertain. None of
us were prepared for it. A lot of people were saying,
if I had known that I would go on another
date for I don't know how many months or years
um I would have gone on this date with this person,
maybe I should have made it work with my ex.
So a lot of people were rethinking their dating lives entirely.
(03:41):
Let's compare it to regular times. Right. In regular times,
you could be confused by a hot restaurant, a hot show,
an exciting night. Right, because COVID has changed that, do
you think this could change relationships and the way we
date going forward? So for the NBC piece, we interviewed
(04:02):
Matthew Hussey, who is this dating expert and coach, And
one of the things that he had said even pre
pandemic was stopped doing fancy dates. Don't let this guy
take you to the fanciest restaurant, or don't let this
woman bring you to the biggest Broadway show. Just go
do a regular thing with this regular person to see
who they are and if you get along. I think
(04:24):
that now, the fact that you'll be able to meet
in person UM will make it so much more exciting
because I think we were getting kind of flaky, We
were getting kind of comfortable. I know in my own life, UM,
going on a date like people would cancel. People were
um spending more time online, they were swiping, but they
weren't meeting up in person. None of us were going
(04:45):
to fancy parties or fabulous events. Did everybody get a
lot more human about getting set up? I think that
we're all just more human about dating in general, right
that whether you met online, whether you met in person,
Like it's just like, oh, you met someone. There used
to be a hierarchy where meeting online was kind of
like shameful. Many it's not. The majority of people now
(05:07):
are meeting online. I'm dying to know what this means.
How do people hook up? In COVID? People hook up
using all kinds of different tools, most of them being
virtual tools. So porn is obviously rising, and phone sex
is having sort of this revival. I have a friend,
you know, said, like that virtual sex session, uh, if
(05:28):
you want to call it was the best sex I've
ever had. If you think about what happened after the
fantish mood after the war in the nineteen twenties, it
led to this really beautiful, glamorous sort sort of renaissance.
There was an economic boom, but there was also this
sexual revolution, right, And so what I see coming is
when the quarantine stops, when there's a vaccine or however
(05:51):
this ends, that next phase will be a really exciting
beginning for uh sex and relationships. I think it's going
to lead to an actual, like a postcode sexual revolution
where people are going to be so excited to go
out and meet new people. We'll be back after the break.
(06:21):
So explain to me two things, how you embarked on
this dating in the time of COVID, and then how
you end up meeting your boyfriend, Like, walk us through
this path. I definitely wanted to explore what it was
like to date during COVID. I was fascinated by what
was happening to me as a single person and also
the people around me, and so I tweeted out, single people,
(06:41):
when is the next time we're going to go on
a date? Are we all screwed? And I didn't realize
there was like a double entendre. A friend of mine
who saw the tweet was like, I can set you
up and actually it worked and I, you know, met
my boyfriend six six months ago, but yeah, it feels
like so much longer. This has actually been one the
longest relationships I've been in before COVID hit, did you
(07:04):
want to be in a relationship? Yeah, I was definitely dating,
but I was very busy. I would travel a lot,
and then everything obviously fell. We all were grounded wherever
we were, and suddenly I was like, oh, now I
have time to date, but I can't date. But just
in general, dating during COVID, did it make you so
(07:25):
much more exposed or vulnerable? You have to be sort
of vulnerable from the very beginning. My first date with Paul,
I was wearing bike shorts and I don't think I
wore brought and had a haircut real time. And actually
the two first dates were FaceTime dates, and then we
end up meeting in person with masks and social distance,
(07:45):
and then we just went to a park, something I
don't think I've done since I've been, you know, a teenager.
I think that the pandemic in a way was the
best thing that could have happened to our relationship, because
it meant that we wouldn't be on the go and
that we suddenly have the opportunity to really make the
relationship a priority. We both were just who we were,
(08:07):
and there was nothing to sort of hide behind. COVID
has thrown all the rules out the window that I
kind of think maybe people get to decide what they
think is their version of right from wrong? Could that
be an improvement? So you're forced to really set rules
and talk about your needs in a really direct way
and be assertive. And again, you have to trust the person.
(08:29):
If you don't trust this person, you could expose your parents,
or you could expose someone who dies. Are you able
to listen? Are you able to do what I need? Which,
again are really important conversations and really important dynamics to
have to build a strong relationship. So it's an accelerator
in the sense of if you don't like the person,
you're going to find out pretty quickly. Um, if you
(08:50):
like the person, you're going to go deeper more quickly.
For people who are saying, yes, I am alone, I
am alone either in this marriage or I am alone
as someone who's single, and this is our new normal
for the foreseeable future, what should that person be thinking about.
We all developed different coping mechanisms to stay away from
the hard truths of our lives. What makes us hard
(09:11):
to love, what makes us hard to be with? And
when everything comes to a standstill. I think it forced
a lot of people to, yeah, look at themselves in
the mirror and think about, you know what, what do
I want in a relationship. You're meeting someone in a
moment of crisis, right, You're really getting to know them
and getting to know what they're like, not when things
are easy, getting to know what they're like when things
(09:32):
are hard. And that's a really good thing to find out,
no matter how many years you've been together or how
many years you have left together, to know again, what
kind of person are you when things are not easy?
(09:54):
Meeting during a pandemic is anything but normal. But if
Liz and countless others prove anything it's that humans are
adaptable and that love and human connection is crucial, especially
during a crisis. And how about this, It's not all
bad getting to know someone on a deeper level without
the distraction of a fancy dinner or a Broadway show.
(10:17):
It might be better in the long run. Maybe Liz
is right. Maybe we're about to enter the next Roaring twenties.
In this podcast, we are trying to get straight to
the point and leave you with some time to think.
Something Liz left me thinking about is this has COVID
possibly changed dating and relationships for the better? Are their
(10:37):
habits and norms that have developed during this time that
might actually lead to more successful, long term relationships and
maybe maybe they're here to stay. I'm Stephanie Rule and
you're listening to Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think,
MSNBC and I Heart Radio. This podcast is hosted by Me.
(10:58):
Stephanie Rule, Might Be In. Katrina Norvell are executive producers.
Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and
our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by
Josh Fisher. Additional production support provided by Charles Herman, Rachel Rosenbaum,
and Lauren Wynn, and special thanks to Katherine kim Are,
Global Head of Digital News right here at NBC News
(11:19):
and MSNBC. For more thought provoking analysis, visit NBC news
dot com slash thing
And you're meeting someone in a moment of crisis, right,
You're meeting someone in a moment where I think, especially
at the beginning, I couldn't hide who I was. I
couldn't really you can't have small talk. What is small talk?
During COVID we are now left like really staring into
each other's eyes with no frills, And I think that
(00:22):
it forces us to think outside of the box when
it comes to dating. COVID has changed basically every aspect
of our daily lives, work, school, going out to eat,
seeing friends, seeing family, entertaining any social lives whatsoever. Another
thing that's changed dating our love lives. Some nights, after
(00:45):
a long day of working from home, school from home,
everything from home, I look at the dishes that are
piled up in my sink. I listened to my kids
who are not showered, haven't done their homework, are fighting
like cats and dogs. And I asked myself, what would
all of this be like if I was going through
COVID single. Overall, quarantine and pandemic life have been isolating
(01:07):
and lonely, even for those of us who aren't living alone.
We're losing out on social interactions, personal connections, and of course,
physical touch, so it's not surprising that people found a
way around this and found love even from a distance.
I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC Anchor, NBC News Senior Correspondent, and
this is Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and
(01:29):
I Heart Radio. On this episode of Modern Rules, we're
asking what it's like to date, find love, and have
sex during COVID, and I found the perfect perfect guest
for this conversation, the one and only Liz Plank. She
is a superstar human, but she's also an MSNBC columnist,
(01:53):
and she took on an amazing and very daring assignment
where she chronicled part of her dating life during the
early months of COVID. Liz, I'm so glad you're here.
I'm so excited to be here with you. For so
many of us who may have been mired in homework
and making food, I think we forgot that we were
(02:16):
surrounded by a lot of people and that chaos is comforting.
But for people who are single, can you just walk
me through what was it like in the early days.
I think it was very daunting and very scary. COVID
has shown us on a societal level, who we are right.
It showed us who we are in relationship with ourselves,
(02:37):
and it's shown us who we are in relationships with
other people. You know, if you're single, you're extra single.
If you're married, you're extra married. If you have kids,
you extra have kids, right, So everything is amplified in
you doing this piece and researching what has it really
been like? Well, what I found is that there's a
(02:58):
lot of people who are struggling. When I've talked to
people about this, what I've been sort of amazed by
is the diversity of the responses. There are people who say, actually,
I've had more time to date than ever, and there's
a lot of people who feel lonely. And when it
comes to dating, I think feeling like you're gonna lose
one more year or two more years, not knowing when
(03:20):
the next time you'll be able to go on a
date again is very scary. So you're already feeling alone,
You're already feeling scared. Everything is very uncertain. None of
us were prepared for it. A lot of people were saying,
if I had known that I would go on another
date for I don't know how many months or years
um I would have gone on this date with this person,
maybe I should have made it work with my ex.
So a lot of people were rethinking their dating lives entirely.
(03:41):
Let's compare it to regular times. Right. In regular times,
you could be confused by a hot restaurant, a hot show,
an exciting night. Right, because COVID has changed that, do
you think this could change relationships and the way we
date going forward? So for the NBC piece, we interviewed
(04:02):
Matthew Hussey, who is this dating expert and coach, And
one of the things that he had said even pre
pandemic was stopped doing fancy dates. Don't let this guy
take you to the fanciest restaurant, or don't let this
woman bring you to the biggest Broadway show. Just go
do a regular thing with this regular person to see
who they are and if you get along. I think
(04:24):
that now, the fact that you'll be able to meet
in person UM will make it so much more exciting
because I think we were getting kind of flaky, We
were getting kind of comfortable. I know in my own life, UM,
going on a date like people would cancel. People were
um spending more time online, they were swiping, but they
weren't meeting up in person. None of us were going
(04:45):
to fancy parties or fabulous events. Did everybody get a
lot more human about getting set up? I think that
we're all just more human about dating in general, right
that whether you met online, whether you met in person,
Like it's just like, oh, you met someone. There used
to be a hierarchy where meeting online was kind of
like shameful. Many it's not. The majority of people now
(05:07):
are meeting online. I'm dying to know what this means.
How do people hook up? In COVID? People hook up
using all kinds of different tools, most of them being
virtual tools. So porn is obviously rising, and phone sex
is having sort of this revival. I have a friend,
you know, said, like that virtual sex session, uh, if
(05:28):
you want to call it was the best sex I've
ever had. If you think about what happened after the
fantish mood after the war in the nineteen twenties, it
led to this really beautiful, glamorous sort sort of renaissance.
There was an economic boom, but there was also this
sexual revolution, right, And so what I see coming is
when the quarantine stops, when there's a vaccine or however
(05:51):
this ends, that next phase will be a really exciting
beginning for uh sex and relationships. I think it's going
to lead to an actual, like a postcode sexual revolution
where people are going to be so excited to go
out and meet new people. We'll be back after the break.
(06:21):
So explain to me two things, how you embarked on
this dating in the time of COVID, and then how
you end up meeting your boyfriend, Like, walk us through
this path. I definitely wanted to explore what it was
like to date during COVID. I was fascinated by what
was happening to me as a single person and also
the people around me, and so I tweeted out, single people,
(06:41):
when is the next time we're going to go on
a date? Are we all screwed? And I didn't realize
there was like a double entendre. A friend of mine
who saw the tweet was like, I can set you
up and actually it worked and I, you know, met
my boyfriend six six months ago, but yeah, it feels
like so much longer. This has actually been one the
longest relationships I've been in before COVID hit, did you
(07:04):
want to be in a relationship? Yeah, I was definitely dating,
but I was very busy. I would travel a lot,
and then everything obviously fell. We all were grounded wherever
we were, and suddenly I was like, oh, now I
have time to date, but I can't date. But just
in general, dating during COVID, did it make you so
(07:25):
much more exposed or vulnerable? You have to be sort
of vulnerable from the very beginning. My first date with Paul,
I was wearing bike shorts and I don't think I
wore brought and had a haircut real time. And actually
the two first dates were FaceTime dates, and then we
end up meeting in person with masks and social distance,
(07:45):
and then we just went to a park, something I
don't think I've done since I've been, you know, a teenager.
I think that the pandemic in a way was the
best thing that could have happened to our relationship, because
it meant that we wouldn't be on the go and
that we suddenly have the opportunity to really make the
relationship a priority. We both were just who we were,
(08:07):
and there was nothing to sort of hide behind. COVID
has thrown all the rules out the window that I
kind of think maybe people get to decide what they
think is their version of right from wrong? Could that
be an improvement? So you're forced to really set rules
and talk about your needs in a really direct way
and be assertive. And again, you have to trust the person.
(08:29):
If you don't trust this person, you could expose your parents,
or you could expose someone who dies. Are you able
to listen? Are you able to do what I need? Which,
again are really important conversations and really important dynamics to
have to build a strong relationship. So it's an accelerator
in the sense of if you don't like the person,
you're going to find out pretty quickly. Um, if you
(08:50):
like the person, you're going to go deeper more quickly.
For people who are saying, yes, I am alone, I
am alone either in this marriage or I am alone
as someone who's single, and this is our new normal
for the foreseeable future, what should that person be thinking about.
We all developed different coping mechanisms to stay away from
the hard truths of our lives. What makes us hard
(09:11):
to love, what makes us hard to be with? And
when everything comes to a standstill. I think it forced
a lot of people to, yeah, look at themselves in
the mirror and think about, you know what, what do
I want in a relationship. You're meeting someone in a
moment of crisis, right, You're really getting to know them
and getting to know what they're like, not when things
are easy, getting to know what they're like when things
(09:32):
are hard. And that's a really good thing to find out,
no matter how many years you've been together or how
many years you have left together, to know again, what
kind of person are you when things are not easy?
(09:54):
Meeting during a pandemic is anything but normal. But if
Liz and countless others prove anything it's that humans are
adaptable and that love and human connection is crucial, especially
during a crisis. And how about this, It's not all
bad getting to know someone on a deeper level without
the distraction of a fancy dinner or a Broadway show.
(10:17):
It might be better in the long run. Maybe Liz
is right. Maybe we're about to enter the next Roaring twenties.
In this podcast, we are trying to get straight to
the point and leave you with some time to think.
Something Liz left me thinking about is this has COVID
possibly changed dating and relationships for the better? Are their
(10:37):
habits and norms that have developed during this time that
might actually lead to more successful, long term relationships and
maybe maybe they're here to stay. I'm Stephanie Rule and
you're listening to Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think,
MSNBC and I Heart Radio. This podcast is hosted by Me.
(10:58):
Stephanie Rule, Might Be In. Katrina Norvell are executive producers.
Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and
our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by
Josh Fisher. Additional production support provided by Charles Herman, Rachel Rosenbaum,
and Lauren Wynn, and special thanks to Katherine kim Are,
Global Head of Digital News right here at NBC News
(11:19):
and MSNBC. For more thought provoking analysis, visit NBC news
dot com slash thing
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