November 12, 2020 • 13 mins
Stephanie is joined by former Republican strategist and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Steve Schmidt on the eve of the 2020 election to discuss his anxieties and expectations. They reunite one week later to reflect on the results and discuss what 70 million votes for Trump could mean for the future of Trumpism.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've had a peaceful transition of power in this country
uninterrupted since The first president who really matters in this
story is the one who loses John Adams. He loses
in the House of Representatives to Thomas Jefferson, and he
yields power in the democracy. One side must be willing
(00:21):
to lose to accept the results. Those are the words
of my friend and veteran political strategist Steve Schmidt when
we spoke the day before the election. The lead up
to this election has been like nothing we have ever seen.
We've got a deeply divided country and incumbent who has
(00:43):
bucked every possible norm out there, and for most of us,
we've been pushed to the brink this year. Our schedules,
our calendars, are daily lives are two d is totally changed.
So we're trying to take a different approach with this podcast.
We're going to dive into these issues. We're gonna get
straight to the point, and then we're gonna leave it
there and give you time to think. On this episode,
(01:06):
we're going way back in time one week to make
sense of this election and President Trump's loss. I'm Stephanie Rule,
MSNBC anchor and NC News Senior correspondent, and this is
Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and I Heart Radio.
(01:29):
With so much at stake in this election, I wanted
to talk to my friend Steve Schmidt. He spent the
majority of his career working as a Republican strategist. He
worked on key campaigns like President George W. Bush, California
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the late Arizona Senator John McCain. Now,
Steve is the co founder of the Absolutely Savage Lincoln Project,
(01:52):
which has been committed to defeating Donald Trump and really
Republicans across the board. He's also the co host of
the new political podcast Battleground with David Pluff and Steve Schmidt,
also here on I Heart Radio. So for me, I
wanted to talk to Steve on the eve of this
election and then right after it was called, and I
wanted to know how he felt at this time about
(02:15):
our country. When we look back at this cycle and
it's going to be a mashup of events, what do
you want people to remember about the way this election
feels at this moment. This is the most important election
since eighteen sixty four. Now we head into these final
(02:37):
quiet uncertain hours were really, in my view, the fate
of the nation hangs in the balance in a profound
way because Trump is um is such a radical departure
from Americanism. Take me to your heart and mind. Is
this the eve of election Day? A completely surreal moment
(02:58):
for you, someone who's basically voted his professional life to
advancing a Republican agenda, and you are President Trump's de
facto public enemy number one. So the Republican Party today
is a vessel for the purposes of maintaining political power
to advance self interest and the interests of the donor class.
(03:19):
When you used to hear the importance of the rule
of law and the truth, you now hear celebrations of
the lie and of ignorance. It's an anti science, anti logic,
anti reality, toxic ideology with authoritarian components and fascistic markers.
(03:45):
It's a real threat to the country's future. That's what
Trump is um is today, and that's what the Republican
Party fully has become. And that's a great tragedy for
the country. We try to fight this as hard as
we could, and we did everything that we knew to do,
you know, to stand up and try to oppose Trump
(04:07):
and Trump is um and put a narrative around it.
But no, it doesn't matter in victory or defeat. Trump
is Um isn't going away. We have a status authoritarian
ish movement that has rooted itself like a noxious weed,
like an invasive species in the American politics, and millions
(04:27):
of Americans are down with that. The first step is
to deny the minority the ability to rule over the
majority of the country. This is in the hands of
the American people. People have been voting for a month
and we're coming to the end. You know. I think
that Trump is going down. I think their country will
repudiate this. I think the markers are pointing to a
(04:50):
a significant democratic wave than anything else. If my prediction
is wrong, it will be the least of the thing
things that I've been wrong about um, because I will
have been profoundly wrong about the character of the country.
And I think the country, despite all its flaws, is
(05:13):
a force for great good. And that's why I think
the whole world is watching with trepidation and nervousness to
see what the judgment of the American people will being
now at a at a very very important moment in
our history. Then, given how divided we are, what is
your advice for the winners? We clearly, historically Americans have
(05:38):
always had a conspiracy bent. It's always existed in American culture.
But here's the deal. You can go and read Federalists
ten by James Madison, and he expresses a worry, and
the worry is that when you have a democracy, what's
the poison that the democracy could fall victim too? And
(05:59):
the poison is faction, is political parties, majoritarianism, a disregard
for the rights of the minority. And they write about
an over zealous majority imposing its will inappropriately on a
disregarded minority. It breaks democracy. Restraint. Restraint restraint, you know,
(06:28):
a sense that when you go into work you understand
that a number that is north of of the country
was for the other guy. Then a week from now,
what will you be doing. I don't know. You see
what happens, BECU see what happens. I might be game
to the White House fence in a week. And now
(06:51):
that week has passed. And for me, like many people
across this country, it wasn't until you saw the people
in the streets, you heard the horns honking, and business leaders,
political leaders, people across this country, really across the world
started saying, Okay, we've got a winner. You actually felt
this collective sigh of relief across the country. But the
(07:14):
thing is, seventy million people did vote for the president,
and a lot of those seventy million people are still mad.
And you have a president, unlike previous presidents, who's not
accepting the results. The question is, did this election that
elected Joe Biden, that didn't elect a lot of Democrats,
that did not necessarily produce the blue wave, didn't deliver
(07:36):
a decisive message to America. I had to ask Steve,
so I called him back, and we'll be back with
Steve right after the break. Tell me you and I
(07:57):
talked one week ago, how you feel today. The results
of election met my expectations, they didn't fulfill my hopes.
I'm happy that Joe Biden is the president elect. But
you think about this moment where it's clear about what
the outcome of the election is, and you have almost
the entirety of the Republican majority yet to congratulate the
(08:21):
President elect of the United States. You know, in the end,
the whole story of the country's went about fighting and struggle,
and there's never been an easy way up the mountain.
But we've got a really bad element of that. Trump
is incited, encouraged and mainstreams that are part of his coalition,
the complete disassociation from truth or reality, the President of
(08:45):
Q and on candidates in the House majority. Then this
wasn't the repudiation you were looking for. Well, it's a
decisive victory, but no, Trump is um wasn't repudiated at all.
You know, it's scored seventy million votes and it's gonna
be a long struggle, long fight in this country. But
(09:06):
a lot of Republicans who enabled this behavior over four
years did not pay a price for it. And you
know now you see the consequences of this. I wish
every Republican senator from Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins and
Joanie Earnest that made it was without but that's not
what the people of those states decided. And so it's
(09:27):
a long term fight and the failure to a seed
to the election, to a seed to reality, it's terrible.
I think that the Republican Party, they are sophisticated politicians, right,
they know that Joe Biden won, yet they're looking in
(09:50):
the camera premeditatedly, deliberately lying about what is the most
basic foundational thing in the country, trying to subvert the
outcome of a presidential election that they know was conducted
fairly with a bunch of conspiracy theories. So what's the
(10:15):
path forward, Steve? There is a tradition, and there have
been some icy rides. Eisenhower and Truman road in silence.
Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan didn't have much to talk about,
but they rode together, and they showed the country the
magnificence of the American system of government. The ex president
(10:38):
is escorted by tradition since Reagan's inauguration to the east
side of the capital, where the outgoing president will walk
to Marine one, turn and wave. The incoming president waves back,
and off he goes. The American system is renewed, It
(11:01):
begins again. This is the greatness of the American experiment.
That ride back on Marine one on Air Force one.
That's a courtesy. Donald Trump doesn't deserve. And remember one
thing in this country. Donald Trump doesn't leave the presidency.
(11:23):
The presidency leaves Donald Trump. At high noon on January
Donald Trump is out on his ass God right, presidential podium,
God flags, God, Air Force one, God, the limo gone.
(11:45):
It's over on the January one, because the American people
fired him. We have won the first battle right against
this strain of American autocracy, this rantid, corrupt Trumpist ideology,
(12:07):
and we're going to fight it for a long long time.
Harmony has not been restored to America. We are in
a moment of great crisis. It's one of the greatest
challenges in the in the history of the country, and
the fight for democratic values is one that will go
on for the endurance of my life, no doubt. The
(12:36):
time between election day and calling a winner felt painstakingly slow,
but at the same time went by in a blink.
We didn't get that massive blue wave. We did get
a decided winner in Joe Biden, but it wasn't an
outright repudiation of the loser. Seventy million people so voted
(12:57):
for him. And something Steve left me thinking about is this,
While Trump may have lost the election, what kind of
blow was really delivered to Trump? Is um Our goal
is to cut through the noise and get straight to
the issues. So I want to leave you with some
space to think Modern Rules is a production of MSNBC
(13:20):
and I Heart Radio. The podcast is hosted by me
Stephanie Rule and executive produced by Mike Fiett and Katrina Norvell.
Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and
our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by
Josh Fisher and special banks to Katherine Kim, our Global
head of Digital News right here at NBC News and
(13:41):
MSNBC
We've had a peaceful transition of power in this country
uninterrupted since The first president who really matters in this
story is the one who loses John Adams. He loses
in the House of Representatives to Thomas Jefferson, and he
yields power in the democracy. One side must be willing
(00:21):
to lose to accept the results. Those are the words
of my friend and veteran political strategist Steve Schmidt when
we spoke the day before the election. The lead up
to this election has been like nothing we have ever seen.
We've got a deeply divided country and incumbent who has
(00:43):
bucked every possible norm out there, and for most of us,
we've been pushed to the brink this year. Our schedules,
our calendars, are daily lives are two d is totally changed.
So we're trying to take a different approach with this podcast.
We're going to dive into these issues. We're gonna get
straight to the point, and then we're gonna leave it
there and give you time to think. On this episode,
(01:06):
we're going way back in time one week to make
sense of this election and President Trump's loss. I'm Stephanie Rule,
MSNBC anchor and NC News Senior correspondent, and this is
Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and I Heart Radio.
(01:29):
With so much at stake in this election, I wanted
to talk to my friend Steve Schmidt. He spent the
majority of his career working as a Republican strategist. He
worked on key campaigns like President George W. Bush, California
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the late Arizona Senator John McCain. Now,
Steve is the co founder of the Absolutely Savage Lincoln Project,
(01:52):
which has been committed to defeating Donald Trump and really
Republicans across the board. He's also the co host of
the new political podcast Battleground with David Pluff and Steve Schmidt,
also here on I Heart Radio. So for me, I
wanted to talk to Steve on the eve of this
election and then right after it was called, and I
wanted to know how he felt at this time about
(02:15):
our country. When we look back at this cycle and
it's going to be a mashup of events, what do
you want people to remember about the way this election
feels at this moment. This is the most important election
since eighteen sixty four. Now we head into these final
(02:37):
quiet uncertain hours were really, in my view, the fate
of the nation hangs in the balance in a profound
way because Trump is um is such a radical departure
from Americanism. Take me to your heart and mind. Is
this the eve of election Day? A completely surreal moment
(02:58):
for you, someone who's basically voted his professional life to
advancing a Republican agenda, and you are President Trump's de
facto public enemy number one. So the Republican Party today
is a vessel for the purposes of maintaining political power
to advance self interest and the interests of the donor class.
(03:19):
When you used to hear the importance of the rule
of law and the truth, you now hear celebrations of
the lie and of ignorance. It's an anti science, anti logic,
anti reality, toxic ideology with authoritarian components and fascistic markers.
(03:45):
It's a real threat to the country's future. That's what
Trump is um is today, and that's what the Republican
Party fully has become. And that's a great tragedy for
the country. We try to fight this as hard as
we could, and we did everything that we knew to do,
you know, to stand up and try to oppose Trump
(04:07):
and Trump is um and put a narrative around it.
But no, it doesn't matter in victory or defeat. Trump
is Um isn't going away. We have a status authoritarian
ish movement that has rooted itself like a noxious weed,
like an invasive species in the American politics, and millions
(04:27):
of Americans are down with that. The first step is
to deny the minority the ability to rule over the
majority of the country. This is in the hands of
the American people. People have been voting for a month
and we're coming to the end. You know. I think
that Trump is going down. I think their country will
repudiate this. I think the markers are pointing to a
(04:50):
a significant democratic wave than anything else. If my prediction
is wrong, it will be the least of the thing
things that I've been wrong about um, because I will
have been profoundly wrong about the character of the country.
And I think the country, despite all its flaws, is
(05:13):
a force for great good. And that's why I think
the whole world is watching with trepidation and nervousness to
see what the judgment of the American people will being
now at a at a very very important moment in
our history. Then, given how divided we are, what is
your advice for the winners? We clearly, historically Americans have
(05:38):
always had a conspiracy bent. It's always existed in American culture.
But here's the deal. You can go and read Federalists
ten by James Madison, and he expresses a worry, and
the worry is that when you have a democracy, what's
the poison that the democracy could fall victim too? And
(05:59):
the poison is faction, is political parties, majoritarianism, a disregard
for the rights of the minority. And they write about
an over zealous majority imposing its will inappropriately on a
disregarded minority. It breaks democracy. Restraint. Restraint restraint, you know,
(06:28):
a sense that when you go into work you understand
that a number that is north of of the country
was for the other guy. Then a week from now,
what will you be doing. I don't know. You see
what happens, BECU see what happens. I might be game
to the White House fence in a week. And now
(06:51):
that week has passed. And for me, like many people
across this country, it wasn't until you saw the people
in the streets, you heard the horns honking, and business leaders,
political leaders, people across this country, really across the world
started saying, Okay, we've got a winner. You actually felt
this collective sigh of relief across the country. But the
(07:14):
thing is, seventy million people did vote for the president,
and a lot of those seventy million people are still mad.
And you have a president, unlike previous presidents, who's not
accepting the results. The question is, did this election that
elected Joe Biden, that didn't elect a lot of Democrats,
that did not necessarily produce the blue wave, didn't deliver
(07:36):
a decisive message to America. I had to ask Steve,
so I called him back, and we'll be back with
Steve right after the break. Tell me you and I
(07:57):
talked one week ago, how you feel today. The results
of election met my expectations, they didn't fulfill my hopes.
I'm happy that Joe Biden is the president elect. But
you think about this moment where it's clear about what
the outcome of the election is, and you have almost
the entirety of the Republican majority yet to congratulate the
(08:21):
President elect of the United States. You know, in the end,
the whole story of the country's went about fighting and struggle,
and there's never been an easy way up the mountain.
But we've got a really bad element of that. Trump
is incited, encouraged and mainstreams that are part of his coalition,
the complete disassociation from truth or reality, the President of
(08:45):
Q and on candidates in the House majority. Then this
wasn't the repudiation you were looking for. Well, it's a
decisive victory, but no, Trump is um wasn't repudiated at all.
You know, it's scored seventy million votes and it's gonna
be a long struggle, long fight in this country. But
(09:06):
a lot of Republicans who enabled this behavior over four
years did not pay a price for it. And you
know now you see the consequences of this. I wish
every Republican senator from Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins and
Joanie Earnest that made it was without but that's not
what the people of those states decided. And so it's
(09:27):
a long term fight and the failure to a seed
to the election, to a seed to reality, it's terrible.
I think that the Republican Party, they are sophisticated politicians, right,
they know that Joe Biden won, yet they're looking in
(09:50):
the camera premeditatedly, deliberately lying about what is the most
basic foundational thing in the country, trying to subvert the
outcome of a presidential election that they know was conducted
fairly with a bunch of conspiracy theories. So what's the
(10:15):
path forward, Steve? There is a tradition, and there have
been some icy rides. Eisenhower and Truman road in silence.
Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan didn't have much to talk about,
but they rode together, and they showed the country the
magnificence of the American system of government. The ex president
(10:38):
is escorted by tradition since Reagan's inauguration to the east
side of the capital, where the outgoing president will walk
to Marine one, turn and wave. The incoming president waves back,
and off he goes. The American system is renewed, It
(11:01):
begins again. This is the greatness of the American experiment.
That ride back on Marine one on Air Force one.
That's a courtesy. Donald Trump doesn't deserve. And remember one
thing in this country. Donald Trump doesn't leave the presidency.
(11:23):
The presidency leaves Donald Trump. At high noon on January
Donald Trump is out on his ass God right, presidential podium,
God flags, God, Air Force one, God, the limo gone.
(11:45):
It's over on the January one, because the American people
fired him. We have won the first battle right against
this strain of American autocracy, this rantid, corrupt Trumpist ideology,
(12:07):
and we're going to fight it for a long long time.
Harmony has not been restored to America. We are in
a moment of great crisis. It's one of the greatest
challenges in the in the history of the country, and
the fight for democratic values is one that will go
on for the endurance of my life, no doubt. The
(12:36):
time between election day and calling a winner felt painstakingly slow,
but at the same time went by in a blink.
We didn't get that massive blue wave. We did get
a decided winner in Joe Biden, but it wasn't an
outright repudiation of the loser. Seventy million people so voted
(12:57):
for him. And something Steve left me thinking about is this,
While Trump may have lost the election, what kind of
blow was really delivered to Trump? Is um Our goal
is to cut through the noise and get straight to
the issues. So I want to leave you with some
space to think Modern Rules is a production of MSNBC
(13:20):
and I Heart Radio. The podcast is hosted by me
Stephanie Rule and executive produced by Mike Fiett and Katrina Norvell.
Meredith Bennett Smith is Senior editor for NBC Think and
our editorial lead. The podcast is engineered and edited by
Josh Fisher and special banks to Katherine Kim, our Global
head of Digital News right here at NBC News and
(13:41):
MSNBC
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