What's The Plan? with Van Jones

This special episode features an interview with Van Jones. 

Van Jones is an American political analyst, media personality, lawyer, author, and civil rights advocate.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome the Money in Wealth with John Hobriyant, a production
of The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Hey, everybody
is John Hobrian and this is Money and Wealth, and
this is my weekly ministry of finance. This is my

(00:22):
pool for economic empowerment and the uplifting of all of us.
Whether color is not black or white as in race,
or red or blue as in politics, it's green as
in at least in the United States of America, US currency.
Wherever you're listening to this or watching this around the world,
we've got a message for you too. This is about

(00:43):
the aspiration generation. This is about all of us coming
up from nothing. This is about all of us aspiring
and succeeding. And we have a very special episode today.
Not only is it with my brother and my friend
Van Jones, who I think is a I believe is
beyond and ahead of his time, which is why some
people give him drama and problems because they don't really

(01:07):
understand the frequency that he's on, and he does not
always take the time to break down how he's thinking.
He's too busy doing and moving than to be overly
concerned about how something is being interpreted. He rather his
results speak for him, but I think it's important to
be able to understand van So they listened to him.

(01:28):
So they said that more people trust him because he
I believe is one of the true thought leaders for
the twenty first century. Now, keep in mind we killed
doctor King. Keep in mind that Doctor King's friends called
him Martin Luther King, Martin Luther Kumb Uncle Tom fell Out,

(01:51):
one of the and these were his friends talking, you
want to peace rise. Keep in mind it wasn't the Afrikaans,
it was the a n C that actually undercover threatened
to take out Nelson Mandela because he was quote negotiating
with the enemy quote. He had brought the Firmer Well,
an africaner, on his cabinet as vice president when he

(02:14):
became president. That was certainly ahead of his time, and
nobody agreed with what he was doing. But he was
a moneymaker. He was a guy bringing the cash and
he was a cachet. So some people kept it quiet,
but real talk. It was people in his own party
who really had great animus for him because he was
just a visionary. And it was Gandhi who wanted to

(02:35):
bring two countries together into one. And he was killed
for that. It was Shimone Perez once again killed trying
to bring something rational peace to the Middle East, a solution,
I mean, go on and on and on. It was
you know Malcolm X who came back from Mecca and said, gee,
all white people are the devil. I just prayed with
white people in Mecca. He was dead within two weeks.

(02:58):
He's messing with somebody's business. To the President, Duke Clinton
once said, it's hard to get some mighty agreed to
the truth when the lie is paying your paycheck. But
this to be that diabolical or that cynical, It just
could be. Look, I'm fighting a short term battle for
the survival of my people, and I don't know what
you're doing with you being the person with a vision.

(03:21):
Maybe fighting a long term not only a battle, but
trying to win the war, and those two strategies may
look different. I'm a partnership guy, the protest guy, maybe
like Bunk John O'Brien. I think they understand now what
I'm trying to do. But when I first started this work,
people call me all kinds of names. Man, They rolled
their eyes, gre capitalism, financial literacy, Ah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(03:42):
Now they get it right. But when I first started this,
the protest people really thought that I was a waste
of time. But I needed the protest people to set
up the situation where the companies and governments and entities
and communities wanted to partner with a guy like me
to create an environment where there was no need for
protests anymore. I say all this to say we have

(04:03):
a radical movement of common sense, Van and I. But
Van is even more on the forefront of progressive innovative
thought than I am in many ways. But he takes
less time to explain his city Agen. He's always explaining
somebody else's situation. That's what he does on CNN all

(04:23):
the time, explaining somebody else's situation. So I want, I believe,
and Van does not know. Van does not know I'm
about to say this. This is all live and in
the moment. We have not talked about this, and other
than Van saying ask me whatever you like, I believe
that we are in this moment in history. Van's heard

(04:43):
this part before. I believe we're sitting in a moment
in history, but history does not. He'll feel historic when
you're sitting in it, because like another day, I believe
this is the third reconstruction. Van has heard me say
this before. Some of the listeners have heard me say
this before, from the streets to the suits, from civil
rights to civil rights. What you have not heard me
say is I think we need a radical transformational approach

(05:08):
to the new capitalism, to the new economy, to the future.
And that part I want that. And I think if
people can hear you say your vision on that part,
which we have not discussed, and you did not know
I was going to say, But if I gave you
the charge of saying what's bold and audacious? If you
knew there was a future and you knew you could
not fail, what would you say? What would you do?

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
What's your vision for all of us, particularly black folks,
but all of them on a go forward basis?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, look, I mean is a deep question and let
me let me go backwards before I go forward. You
have to ask a deep question about why, if you
believe in God, if you believe in a just university,
you believe in any any kind oferiod of love or

(06:00):
whatever you want to call it, why did black people
get stolen from Africa, brutalized, mistreated, great assaulted, not for
a day, not for a weekend, not for a decade,
not for a century, but for three centuries. Why how

(06:20):
is that consistent with any high spiritual understanding of anything?
Why are we here as African Americans. We'll never know
the answer, but you could choose to say that the
West Western civilization needed a soul, needed a moral compass,

(06:44):
needed something within it that could keep its worst impulses
and check and insist that it reached its highest goals
and aspirations. And that's really what African Americans, in my mind,
is what we are. We If you took African Americans
out of this country, even just on a political policy

(07:08):
voting basis, this country would lurch so far into authoritarianism
and despotism that you would have a menace on the planet.
It's such which you've never seen before. And so we
have a responsibility.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Back in the backup. You've already gone deep explained to
people what you just said, like that was deep in
and of itself.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, if you got to understand where I'm coming from.
I'm coming from a position that Black people have a
special calling on our culture, on our lives, and on
our people, that we are special people, that we represent
through pain and suffering. We represent hope, we have soul,

(07:51):
we have a moral direction. We've produced world class leaders
that people around the world talk about, from Doctor King
to melcom X, people seeing we shall overcome in Eastern
Europe when it's time to struggle something. And the thing
about that we're only ten percent of a country's only
five percent of the world. So this is a tiny,
tiny little group of people. Somehow world culture revolves around us.

(08:16):
From hip hop, beyoncely just took over country music. I mean,
the tiny little group of people has produced world class culture,
has produced world class literature, has produced world class political leadership.
We have had one black president already, might have a second.
Hard to know what is going on with this group.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
If you just see us as having, you know, being
oppressed and mistreated and victimized, then you might be justified
in being mad all the time. But I see our
persistence here as a blessing on the world. I think
that I think that there's something in the DNA of
our culture that is about justice for all. It's about Hallelujah. Anyhow,

(09:00):
no matter what you do to us, we still don't
praise him. No matter what you say about us. We
still children of about how God you can have the
klan outside the church right now with the lynch ropes ready,
we're still going to be singing. You cannot steal our joy.
That that no pressure, no diamonds. That's what I'm saying.
That the three hundred years of pressure on the Black

(09:21):
community has produced diamonds, diamonds of culture, diamonds of philosophy,
diamonds of insight, diamonds of political resilience. And the world
needs those diamonds now. So when I look at our community,
I don't look at us as victims. I look at
us as a source of necessary assets. The same way
Africa has necessary They call them rare earth minerals, say,

(09:43):
any rare earth minerals, they're africa abundant minerals. They're to you,
they're were to you, but they're abundant in Africa. In
the same way that Africa has necessary minerals, necessary gems,
DM cobalt, necessary for the AI revolution to work, necessary

(10:04):
for the clean energy revolution to work. All you know,
there's no cloud computing those, there's nothing in the Cloudsy's
or our our data centers on Earth using materials from Africa.
So the same way that Africa is materially necessary for
the next human civilization, Black people are culturally and spiritually
necessary for the next human civilization. And so when you

(10:26):
see me move, I don't move like most people that
you expect, because I'm not coming from victim mindset. I'm
just I just. I'm happy to go talk to anybody, Republican, Democrat, rich, poor,
white house, jail house, because I'm standing in a tradition
of greatness. I'm standing in a tradition of ex assumption,
standing in a tradition. You know, you mentioned doctor King,

(10:48):
who was doctor King. First of all, why do we
call doctor Martin Luther King junior? Junior? Because his daddy
was already famous. Daddy King was already famous. You had
to say junior. Because this little kid came along. They
had to run away from Atlanta, hied up in Montgomery
to try to get his own feet under him, and

(11:09):
did such a beautiful job. When the women let that
the bus boycott that he winds up standing on the
steps of the Lincoln Memorial at thirty three years old, Yes,
thirty three years old. I wouldn't let thirt three year
old borrow my card. He's dead thirty three year old
black kids standing up there and you know, reading a
speech of staff wrote that wasn't very impressive. And then,

(11:33):
but thankfully Mahelia Jackson that heard him give a similar
speech six weeks earlier in Detroit. And in the Detroit
speech six weeks earlier, he had a fumbling conclusion about
having a dream, and Mahalia Jackson standing behind this thirty
three year old kid who's basically bombing, tell him about
your dream, Martin, tellbut a dream. And you noticed Doctor

(11:54):
King stops and looks up in freestyles. He turns to
jay Z.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
He freestyle.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Exactly, I mean, I mean, so you have so you
have a thirty three year old black kid freestyling of
the steps of the of the Lincoln Memorial. And there's
a plaque now honoring that thirty three year old kid
because what he he was a radical afro futurist. Please
understand that he was a radical afro futurist. The stuff

(12:25):
he was talking about that could have been Star Trek,
that could have been Star Wars. He's talking about black
kids and white kids playing together. That never happened for
three hundred years. He has talked about a world that
had never existed, and he spoken into existence as a
radical afro futurist, freestyle hip hop kid on the steps
like you know, so when when you when? When that's

(12:45):
what you come from. Yes, that there's a now a
statue of him in the city. Basically it's acknowledging him
as the final founder of a democratic republic. Thomas Jefferson
wasn't able to found a democratic republic. Thomas Abraham Lincoln
wasn't able to found a democratic republic, George Washington, none
of them. It took Doctor King, Eli, Joe Baker, Fan

(13:06):
lou Hammer, John Lewis, the Civil Rights generation to find
Andrew Young to finally complete the work of creating a
democratic republic on these shores worthy of the name. And
so when you come from that, no pressure, no diamonds,
you can then walk into a room with Republicans, walk
into a room with Jared custerm walk into a room

(13:27):
with Donald Trump, walk into a room with Wall Street
people as you do, walk into a room with Silicon
Valley people as we both do, and sit there like
an equal. Because they may have a financial blessing that
our community lacks, but we have a cultural blessing, a
spiritual blessing, a political blessing that is unmashed on planet Earth.

(13:52):
The son now live talking about the future. What is
the future? The future for a black people should be?
How do we make Wakanda real?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Before we go, before we're there, before we go there,
let's go back, let's rewind to tape for a minute.
And by the way, talking about a radical future. As
a doctor King, I mean doctor King also very much
like you, by the way, and you're in this thinking
Doctor King also was smart enough to realize that it
couldn't be win lose. It had to be And a

(14:21):
lot of called civilized leaders today want it to be
win win lose. They want them to win and somebody
else to lose. That doesn't work well. So Andrew doctor
King with with march shut down the economy. White folks
in the town were going crap, were going crazy because
their walls were on fire after several weeks of no economics,
economic activity, because most of the folks in the town

(14:42):
were majority black. Then he would send Andrew Young quietly
behind closed doors in a business suit. Take the tape down,
take off your your overalls, Andy puts you go meet
with these hundred business leaders who have these whites only
signs up, negotiate with them behind closed doors, get them
to take those whites only signs down. And what people

(15:03):
don't realize is that doctor King never wanted Andrew Young arrested. Ever.
I'm in Atlanta right now, which is the only international
city in the in the traditional South almost have a
trade dollar economy built on civil rights, social justice and
in the philosophy Andrew Young that was mentored by doctor King.
And doctor King never wanted Andrew Young arrested because he
was his negotiator with as he called it, the white folks,

(15:25):
and Andrew Young going cut that deal to get the
whites only signs down. And and so the applauses around
doctor King and the visualization of the marching, but really
it was doctor King's setting it up, and Andrew Young
paying it, paying it off, and and and so some
people need to understand that the elegance yea that doctor
King wasn't saying that he loved talking to he loved everybody.

(15:46):
He didn't love talking to everybody, he didn't love hanging
around everybody, and he didn't necessarily leve what was coming
out of everybody's mouth. But what he wanted was results
for our people. Now, you and I have only had
one major disagreement, uh, that I can remember. And I
called you one day during the former president's why I
didn't even say his name, the former President's White House,
and uh, and you were saying things. I love what

(16:09):
you were doing, but I like what you were saying.
I didn't like the way you were saying. You were being,
in my opinion, overly gracious. Uh. And I said, I said, Van,
you can say uh, And I think actually you confidence.
I think later on you can say that thank you,
mister president for doing this thing. That was the right
thing to do. But please don't praise the guy as

(16:30):
a person because you don't You don't know him. I
don't know him. He don't even know himself. But that's
dangerous because now you're endorsing him versus dors his act.
Now I think that you're just being effusive. You you
love everybody, and of course you love the moment. But
do you did you understand what I was saying then
it was a correct way to differentiate that you were really.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Work Look, I understand what you were trying to say.
I also understood my role in my position, and I
understood the psychology of the guy I was dealing with, and.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Now we're getting there, right, So we're getting there.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
So I see myself in that situation as a pawn
on the chessboard. We had our king pieces and our
queen pieces that could not play forward. You couldn't have
an an Al Sharpton, go, he represents too much. You
couldn't have a Baraka Michelle Obama, go, they represent too much.
You'd have a little black guy on see an NGO.
That's not You're not You're not. You're not risking anything.

(17:29):
Put in playing me forward? And if and then you
think about it, you're dealing with Donald Trump, who who
supposedly is a master of what do you call it
the art of the deal? That's his deal, the art
of the deal. So the question is what do we
need to get out of a deal? And what does

(17:50):
he need to get out of a deal? And is
there a way to get a deal that, to your point,
is win win, but that the cause that that that
the benefit to us is higher than cost. Yes, so
I know Donald Trump needs affirmation that everybody please listen
to this.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
This is so very important. Essentially, my man Van Jones
telling you and we've never had this conversation, but I
didn't at the end it at this moment, he basically
sacrificed himself for you. And I know what's coming coming.
I know what's coming. This guy loves praise, not Van Jones.
The other guy, the former president, loves praise like you

(18:30):
and I need food.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
He needs affirmation. And to the point that there's a
KGB agent forming kg KGB agent sitting in Moscow named
Vladimir Putin that has figured out that he can manipulate
all of you as foreign policy simply by showing some

(18:53):
respect to this one guy. So for me, inside the
four corners of the things that were a moment of
importance for the black community, which three things. One the
first step back, which got thirty five thousand, mostly black
people out of federal prison. And when I say, I
did say thirty five. If I got Donald Trump to
get thirty five people out of prison, I should get

(19:14):
the Nobel Peace Broud, right. But we but we got
thirty five thousand out. It wasn't just Van Jones. It
was a Keem Jeffries, it was Jared Kushmer, was a
lot of people, but I was I was a face
I was willing to put my face against that furnace
because what if we lost, What if we went through
all that and we didn't get anything, Well, then I

(19:35):
just like it looked like a fool. But you still
have the NAACP in position, You still have al Sharps
in a position, you still have the Obama's imposition. And
all you had is like one black dude on CNN,
make full of himself. That's not much of a sacrifice.
But what if we win and you want.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Now you got?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Now?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
What do you have?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Now?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
You have the what?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
This is what nobody has ever done the math on.
Look at the twenty twenty election. Don't forget, so we
get the first step back done. In twenty eighteen, thirty
five thousand people come out of prison, vast majority black white,
because all those crack cocaine arrests from the eighties and nineties,
people still sitting there in prison. All those people came.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Home and all you do is little praise.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
All I had to do was say things that made
him feel good. Thirty five thousand people. I see them
as almost like prisons of war, prisons of the drug war.
All the thirty five thousand people, many of whom were
still sitting there from the eighties and nineties War on drugs,
crack cocaine, All those people came home and that is

(20:43):
all we did. That would be enough, But but nobody's
really done the math on what does that then create?
You have a problem with the twenty twenty election potentially.
And here's the problem. Black lives matter. Black Lives Matter
has now created a Democratic party that has to be
for criminal justice reform. Has to be because black lives

(21:07):
eat you live if you're not. So what happens you
have Corey Booker comes out and he says, I'm for
deep criminalizing marijuana at the federal level. And nobody attacks
Corey Booker for that?

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
You have every major candidate coming out saying they're for
colminal justice reform. Why but they never get attacked For
the first time, No, Billy Horton asked the first time,
why because Donald Trump had already signed off on those policies.
So we took the sniper out of the sniper tower,
Donald Trump, and got him down the field with the
rest of us. So what does Donald Trump run on

(21:41):
Donald Trumpe on this issue? Say, listen, this issue has
devastated the black community with the federal government putting black
people in jail for stef White folk's been doing it
the whole time. So what happens Donald Trump runs not
as a Willie Horton attacking black people. He runs said, hey,
I'm a criminal justice guy. We made it safe and

(22:02):
maybe a criminal look, we'll see, we'll see, but we
made it. I think what people understand is by working
with Donald Trump, sacrificing me is just a punt. It
doesn't matter. You're no worse off if I humiliate myself.
But not only did we get those people home, Corey
Booker didn't get attacked, Joe Biden did't get attacked in

(22:25):
twenty twenty is the only elections is nineteen eighty eight.
The Republicans did not attack Democrats on crime. We made
it safe for Democrats to be Democrats on crime because
we got Republicans who also were standing up saying we
got to do something different. Now look where we are
now here we are back. Now it's all cats and
dogs and blah blah blah. The Republicans are back. But

(22:45):
we created a safety for both parties to be smart
on crime. And so my soul is arrested. Now, did
I say stuff that people didn't like in my community? Yes,
I did, But I said all that stuff over again.
Some I would, some my would. But what I was trying,
I was just trying to do something John that hadn't
been done before room And so sometimes you know, sometimes

(23:08):
you we all might get in the ditch and get
some money on yourself trying to get out of it.
But when we opened up the car door and all
them people came home, my soul was wrested.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, let me be clear, so I want everybody to
hear this. Van Jones was thanking him for his actions,
not endorsing him as a human being. Correct.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
I'm not endorsing dog Trup with a human being because
he's mean and lies and does all kinds of shit.
And the thing about it is that I have said
from the very beginning, don't forget where did the term
white lash come from? That was Van Jones talking about
the nature of his movement. You know, what are we
going to tell our kids?

Speaker 1 (23:45):
So?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
But the reason I don't stress it or go on
and on about it is because I think it's beneath me.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, that's why I want to cover You're not covering it.
I brought it up. All I wanted people to hear
is a clear, straight, uninterrupted explanation from you what you did.
And I, by the way, even I didn't get the
part about taking the bullet of his ego, which I'm
not sure I could have done, but the in fact

(24:14):
I know I couldn't have done it to say that
I would have failed at this at this van mandate,
because you were trying to get a greater thing done.
And by the way, let me remind everybody the civil
rights president for the last one hundred years is arguably
President Johnson, who signed four civil rights bills, three of
which directly because of doctor King and Andrew Young and

(24:37):
doctor Dorothy Hyde and all these heroes and she Rose
and John Lewis, et cetera. And one of the bills
in light of doctor King's assassination, which is an open
housing Act. But this guy Johnson is probably has the
most foul mouth before the former president, the most foul
mouth of any president before or since, and had interesting
views on Jews blacks and women are Jews women, And

(25:00):
had interesting ways to describe black people behind closed doors.
And if you had heard what he had to say,
back then, you would have just uh, you would have recoiled.
You would have said, I'm not talking to you, but
that we would have got us would have won the
battle and lost the war. Who created affirmative action? Yes
it was teed up by Kennedy and Johnson, but it's
codified by Nixon? Who who? And now there was games

(25:25):
being played and all that kind of stuff, And it
doesn't matter. But the point is nothing good comes easy,
and and and and and who signed is the legislation
for doctor King's holiday? Who did more for Africa? So
so so you I remember Andrew Young, bachelor, Andrew Young

(25:47):
cursed me out, man. Uh. The only time he's cursed
me out. I was with President with President Bush, the son,
and I had asked him for financial literacy bill, and
and uh he had promised that he'd get financial literacy
policy done it. Eight months had passed by, and I
got you disdistraught, and Andrew and bast you said, how
you doing? I don't know? This is some bs is

(26:07):
not gonna He cursed me out. Blah blah blah blah blah.
John stop it be skeptical. Don't be cynical, because when
you're cynical, you've lost hope. This is not about you,
this is about all of us. It's not get yourself
out of this right. So your job is assume that
man's a good man with that council. You go in
there and get that man good counsel and make him
look good. Make this his idea. Right now. I'm not

(26:30):
going to say that from a president is a good man,
but I will say that your job to make him
look good, got him assign that legislation. Because there's only
one client in Washington. It's the president of the United
States of America. It's a literal fact in a most
Washington uh power.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
And let me add one thing before we move on.
The other thing you have to realize too, is, as
we're getting all the way deep with it, is there
are two hundred thousand people in federal prison right now.
Well now that's than that, but there were two hundred
thousand and that at that time who can't vote. They're
not allowed to vote, they have no say, they can't march,

(27:06):
they can't tweet. They're literally captives. And what my progressive
and liberal counterparts were wanting me to do was to
say I'm going to abandon them until I have a
president that I like. Yes, now, that could have been
four years, eight years, twelve years, or sixteen years. I
didn't know how long you were going to be dealing

(27:27):
with the Trump presidency. It could have been Trump for
eight years and then Obanka for eight I didn't know
what we're dealing with. What people were asking me to
do is to say, I spent twenty years working on
behalf of those folks. I was in the Obama White House.
After I left Obama's staff. I was in Obama's White
House every week, begging for help for those folks, trying

(27:48):
to build support for those folks.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
And by the way, it was also let go from
the Obama White House for being too far out to
liberhood right. And it's never said a bad word about
President Obama. I never said a bad word about about
the folks to senior folks. I won't name names. He
stepped over mess in it, kept it moving and said, look,
I did let my work stand for itself, of course, and.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
He left the Obama when I was under fire and
then came back and you know, not on payroll, but
continue to work with them on criminal justice reform. Yes,
And so now we have a president that I don't like,
and president I didn't support, But he's got two hundred
thousand souls in his hand. He could crush them all
or pardon them all. I don't know what this man
is going to do, but you're telling me I have

(28:33):
to abandon those people for four years, eight years, twelve
or sixteen until I have a president that I like.
How do I justify that to those people for whom
every day is precious and and can never be returned.
And so I said, listen, somebody has to go. And
it should not be Obama. It should not be Obama's husband.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
It should not be Okad that was funny. It should
not be don't I don't know if it's gonna get
that or.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Uh. But it should not be Reverend al Sharp. And
it should not be Reverend Jesse Jackson. It should not
be any of our actual because there's there's nothing that
people at that level could get that would be worth
worth to give. You cannot send in people at that
level to stand next to him, because what can you
But you can send me. You can send me.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
I love you. I love your humility, brother, I love
your humility. And uh, I'm happy we're about to go deeper.
By the way, anybody listening to this podcast, you've you've
been riveted so far. Uh. We're about to go into
a down an even deeper rabbit hole in a second.
But I want to amend you, brother for standing in

(29:44):
your true standing on principle. Uh. And you and you
and I believe the same thing. I rather you respect
me and learn to like me. That like me and
never respect me. I believe me. I believe you know
uh and and bast Young has taught me well, crocodile
being old. F Listen without being defensive. Always leave even
your adversary with their dignity, because if you don't, they'll

(30:07):
spend the rest of their life working to make you miserable.
You and I believe the same thing. I'm on a
few people of color, black people who've advised black Democratic
and Republican US presidents, and people will stay to me, Well,
was it like to go to dinner with the president?
Hang out this president? Hanging with that president? I'll say, Well,
one president I like, and I go to dinner. One

(30:29):
president I respect, and I go to dinner I respect
more one more than I like them. I like I
like one more than I than I respect and like
the others, but I'm still going to dinner because the
president of the United States of America. There's not twelve
at a time, It's just one I brought. I brought
President Bush in South Central a By the way, he
is a nice guy. People called him the devil. I

(30:51):
think it with jay Z or somebody called it not
jay Z's. I mean, sorry, excuse me, jay Z. I
love you, man. Kanye called him the devil years ago.
People would love to get President Bush back now. I mean,
my god, please, I'm.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
So scirised any of them, Romney, any of them.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
So I brought a Bush to South central LA. And
people talked all kind of mess about why am I
bringing him there? I said, because he's the president. Let
me think about this all right. By the way, he
and and we should try to get help and support
out of any place that we can, because you know,
we're you know again, we're sitting this moment in history.
Now on that point, let's pivot now to something an

(31:29):
even deeper topic. You've got a bold, audacious, challenging, amazing,
out of the box thoughtfulness about the future of all

(31:49):
of us in the economy as it relates to black
people in particular. Let's talk about the black Jewish situation.
Let's talk about AI, artificial intelligence, which is your offwork
grade from your coding work. Uh, let's talk about what
you've you've done with this or your plans are for
one hundred million dollars gift from bezos and how and
by the way, the pain that that has brought you, uh,

(32:11):
which is no good d show going punished?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Right, that's true.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
But let's let's get into your vision.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Well, look, the best way I can get into it
is to just talk about my my my new kids,
my new babies for my first marriage. I've got a
boy in college and boy in high school, both good,
good young men, good athletes. I'm with ever good athletes.
They're great athletes and good scholars. But I also have
these two little ones, a little girl who's two and

(32:40):
a half, little boy who's nine months. What kind of
world are they going to grow up?

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Mmm?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
You have to look at it now, with artificial intelligence,
my daughter's first crush and my son's best friend, and
a few years might be an AI. Might be an AI.
That's weird. That's not the civilization I grew up in.
Thirty years from now, God willing, if my daughter wants

(33:12):
to give us grandchildren, she might open up a laptop
or go into a holographic interface and use biotechnology tools
to design my grandchildren. That's that civilization I grew up in.
Heaven forbid. Eighty ninety hundred years from now, she might
be buried on the Moon or Mars, because within one

(33:37):
hundred years will be a fully space fearing civilization that
is not the civilization I grew up in. In other words,
my children are going to grow up in a different
human civilization than when I was born into. The question
is will it be human and will it be civilized?
Will it be human and will it be civilized? And
that is for us as grown people to determine in

(33:58):
terms of policy, in terms of philosophy, in terms of technology,
in terms of the companies that we found. We're not founding.
You think you're founding a new company or a new
firm or a new fund. No, you are co founding
a new human civilization that will happen in which people
will have almost godlike powers, but will they be godly?

Speaker 1 (34:23):
See?

Speaker 2 (34:23):
So, this is why I say it's so important that
black folk are here, because we are going to be
standing in the breach of saying, how you have people
who are disproportionately from one group, racially from one group,
economically from one group, gender, from one group. And what

(34:44):
we know for sure is the last time one group
got to determine how the whole world function. We have
four hundred years a hell, colonization, slavery, environmental destruction, and
world wars. So you don't ever want again to have
one group determine the future in that way. We need
each other Number one, number two as we think about Okay,

(35:06):
you listen to them. The people who are in charge
of AI, the people are in charge of quantum computing,
the people who are in charge of biotech, the people
in charge of space, the people who are in charge
of the blockchain, they all say the same thing. They
want to disrupt everything. They want to disrupt everything. They're
going to disrupt this industry, They're going to disrupt that industry.
Goes okay, Okay, that doesn't bother me because the status

(35:29):
quo has failed my people anyway. But what's the plan
to disrupt poverty? Am you're disrupting everything. What's the plane
of disrupt pollution? What's the plan to disrupt prisons, what's
the planet disrupt polarization, You're going to disrupt everything, but
you seem to have left a few things out, which
is where it's so important for people, the diamonds that

(35:52):
all this pressure produced, to step forward in our genius,
to step forward in our dignity, to step forward in
our wisdom and say, hey, as we create this new
human civilization, let's do it in partnership. Partnership, not pity.
In partnership. You have new technology, but you're gonna need
government support. Black folks run politics. We have We have

(36:16):
four black senators right now. We have a black Vice
president who might become president. Keem Jeffers is likely to
be the Speaker of the House. He's black. Of the
top twenty cities, ten have black mayors. The biggest. We
have a black governor of Maryland right next to DC
Wes Moore, and the biggest most effective caucus in the
House of the black caucus. Black folk run politics.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
You have to succeed without black people voting, voting.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Exactly exactly, so you're gonna have You're gonna have political needs.
You have to come to the table and set with us.
Let's be partners. You have cultural needs. How is AI
going to be culturally adopted? Are people going to be
scared of it as terminator? Are they going to be
open to it? Like C three P L. Black folks
run culture. If we say something is cool, it's cool
in South Korea. If we say something is corny, it

(37:03):
is corny everywhere on Earth. You have to come to
the table. You have to come to the table and
talk with us. And lastly, you have ethical issues with AI.
And it turns out that the Black community, whatever ratchet
stuff may be going on in the shadow, in the
Black community, our light is as bright as any light
on the earth when it comes to the Black civil

(37:23):
rights tradition, when it comes to the Black church, when
it comes to Black spirituality. And so the three needs
of AI political support, cultural adoption, and ethical guidance the
Black community is a disproportionate triple superpower and ensuring that
this technology winds up benefiting all and harming. So again

(37:44):
we say the slogan is we want to make Wakanda real.
When you look at the Marvel superhero universe, it's the
Wakandas who are the most advanced in African nation using
technology for heroic purpose. That is the cheat code in
the mind of the public. What if you had a

(38:05):
real what kind of people say, Well, Van, now you're
talking space fantasy stuff and stuff is ridiculous, Vans shut out.
Ninety nine percent of black people don't know anything about AI.
Nine nine percent these black children on anything about AI.
What are you talking about? Your one hundred percent correct?
And nine percent of white boat don't either. Nine percent
of white children don't either. This is called equality. The

(38:27):
only equality you're ever going to see in foreigner years
is that we are all equally ignorant of this future
that's emerging, and we are equally positioned to do something
about it if we decide to move first. And that's
why when you came to help us in Atlanta, we
did that AI Academy all day academy teaching grassroots leaders

(38:48):
in Atlanta. You came and gave the keynote speech. As
someone who's very close as you are, just Sam Altman
and the other great visionaries. It was significant. And the
last thing I'll say is.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Why you're on the AI Ethics Council. By the way, myself,
you and Bassar Andrew Young, the president of Morehouse Spelman
Clark Atlanta doctor French, Helene Gail Angela Williams, United Way Worldwide.
And we got some folks we're not announced she have
on the tech side, but it's going to be hot.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
And so you think about that an AI council, you
think about a Jedi council to advise this new empire
of technology, this rising. It's important that we be at
the table and there are young people, be focusing on
that as much as folks anything else. And last thing
I'll say is this, if you want a future where

(39:36):
black people are successful, we cannot miss the boat on
technology and we cannot lose the only ally that we've
had for the past one hundred years. Who are the
better people in the Jewish community? Now listen, The Black
Jewish Alliance is important.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Okay, hold on right, everybody stop listen now this is
really important. If you left, if you have not passed
out yet, you about to pass out because my man
is about to drop some jewels on you. I need
for you to listen. Stop, pull off the side of
the road, Tell people stop talking, Tell tell Pooky them
is chill for a minute. You need to stop and
listen to what Van Jones is about to say about

(40:11):
a topic that you think you know something about about
this Black Jewish I'm gonna call a situation. I'm gonna
let him name it. Yeah, I'm go in like the
boy jay Z go ahead and wrath. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
So so look, I am I take this very very
seriously because the Black Jewish alliance is important. Let me
be clear what I'm talking about. There's some people who
overstate this and they pretend that there was a time
and you know, in the past where all black people
love Jews and all Jews love black people. That never happened.
They ain't never happened. You always had some black people

(40:45):
didn't like Jews. You always had some Jews didn't like
black people. That's not the point. The point is that
the best people in the Jewish community, inspired by their
cultural DNA of repair of the world. That's the core
cultural DNA for the Jewish community is the world. That's
what the Jewish people are called to do. And the
best people in the Black community who were inspired by

(41:05):
our cultural DNA, which is justice for all, as black
people all around the world, you just cannot get us
away from justice for all, got together and in nineteen
oh nine it was a Black Jewish alliance that was
formed called the NAACP. Why was it a Black Jewish alliance?
First of all, Jews were not considered white at that
time white it is an elastic concept. At the time
it excluded Jews. But number two, our backs were against

(41:29):
the wall both communities. You have to remember in nineteen
oh nine, Jim Crow segregation of racial terror was so horrific,
so barbaric, so bloody, so brutal against black people and
Jewish people. It inspired Hitler. People think Hitler inspired himself. No,
Hitler was inspired by what was happening in the United States.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
He took a lot of his ideas about jamming up
Jews from how blacks were being treated by America.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, and it's a lot of his worldview. And the
Afrikaaners who implemented apart type were stealing from what we
were doing to blacks and Jews in the United States.
And so and there was no pathway out, don't forget,
No one had ever. The United States wasn't a democratic
republican in seventeen seventy six, nor was it in nineteen
oh nine. It was a racial cast system of former

(42:15):
slaves and now apartheid regime. No one had ever ever,
ever in the history of the world, transformed a racial
cast system into a democratic republican and it never happened.
And so the best people in the Black community, best
people in Jewish community created the NAACP in nineteen oh nine.
Then nineteen ten they created the organization we now called
the Urban League, and then every decade after that, and

(42:36):
we can go through that whole history, the best Black
folks and the best Jewish folks basically co authored and
co created something you now call American democracy. What American
democracy is was basically co authored and co created by
Black and Jewish activists, donors, scholars, lawyers, fighting side by side.
And though if you like American democracy, thank of black

(42:58):
and think a jew, you're welcome basically where it came from. Now,
now what's happening is we are getting pulled apart and
and some of those reasons make sense, some of those
reasons don't make sense. But it will not be good
for either community, and it won't be good for the
world if at least the best Black folk and the
best Jewish folks can't find a way to support and

(43:21):
help each other. You have to be very honest. The
a lot of black colleges, a lot of black scholarships,
and a lot of black causes. When you look at
the animal report you turn it over, those are Jewish
last names. When it says Rosen, when it says gold,
they chopped the berg off. But those Jewish families and

(43:46):
h and also whether you're a Republican or a Democrat,
it's also remarkable in the way that Blacks and Jews
have tended to vote together as well and support causes together,
and so you don't want to lose that when you
don't have to.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
We also that there was no in the world. There's
all these you know, hundreds of ethnic groups. Uh, there's
no black. There's no Black Greek Alliance. There's no black there's.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
No black Swedish Alliance. There's no black Italian alliance. There's
no black Irish alliance. There's no black Inuit alliance. There's
no black. It's just the Blacks and the Jews.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
That's it. On the other side, same thing, Jewish.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Jewish Japanese alliance, there's no Jewish Like, what are you
talking about? So so you basically look, here's what I'll say,
for all the good and all the bad, black folk
need more friends. And few enemies. For all the good
and bad Jewish folk need more friends and furianeities. He'd
be quite foolish for us to be enemies of each
other when four hundred years we will always figure out
some way to work things out.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
And some argue that there are four countries in the
world who'd love for us to never get back together
because if we get because if we get back together,
we are a force to be reckoned with. We've changed
the world together before we could do it again. Someone argued,
And by the way, I'm gonna get you credit with this,
I've been I've been stealing your stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I steal yours all the time.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Doctor King, who's the tail pastors around him? Hey, Joe,
that sounded really good that quote. You know, the first
three times I use I'm gonna give you credit, the
fourth time is mine.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
So you said that Iran, uh, North Korea, Russia and
China with our four authoritarian leaderships that want to run
the world and are tired of us being out of
the front, of us being America and there and everybody
wants to be an American, but Americans, they love for
us to have a food fight like gat each other

(45:36):
tear each other up, which been funding so they can
take because they can't win in a fair fight.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I think it's important to
recognize that we all know in the back of our
mind that Russia, China and North Korea and Iran are
messing with us. They're messing with our elections, They're messing
with our social media. But we still believe that somehow
my social media is correct. They must with everybody else, well,
mine is great. So and so we have to be

(46:05):
very careful and recognize that anytime you look at something
that when you get finished you feel really mad at
one group, whether it's Republican, Democrat, Palestinian, Jewish, whatever it is,
that's propaganda because no one group is all bad or
all good. Right, All the Palestinians are not bad and
they're not all good. All the Israeli is not all
bad and not all good. All Americans are not bad

(46:26):
and not all good and all that. So anytime you
see something and over and over again, your algorithm is
having me. Every time you know you're madder and matter
at one group and you think that you're justified, that's
propaganda and so and then why why is it that
when I open up my phone, Look, I hate what's
happening in gods, and and I pray for those children
and people every night. And why this is my twenty

(46:49):
year old son. Whenever he looks at his phone, he
sees gossip, gossa, gosp goss, gossip, people dying in Haiti,
No Haiti, goss God, people dying in Sudan, No Sudan,
goss After Nigeria, Yeah, Gaza, Gaza, Gaza, women in Afghanistan, Yeah,
gossa Goza. Now hold on a second, now, now, no, nobody, Look,

(47:11):
I've been to the Holy Land. I was in Gaza
before Hamas took over. I've been on in the West Bank. Personally,
I've seen the IDEF, the Israeli defense forces treat Palestinians terribly.
Uh So, nobody has to explain I've been there personally,
I know what's going on. But Gosa, Gods, gods, Gaza,
Hold on a second, who does that benefit. We're not

(47:34):
on a pathway for more safety for Palestinians. We're not
on a paskway pathway for more safety for Israelis. We're
certainly not on a pathway for more supportive and help
for black people, but it's still happening. So could it
be that someone is realized the value of a black mind.
Could it be that somebody has realized the value.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Of a black mind the unopened Yeah. No.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
And could it be that the somebody in Iran, that
there's somebody in Russia who is targeting propaganda at young
black minds to make sure that they follow an agenda
that it's more helpful for Iran, more helpful for Russia
than it is for Palestinians or Israelis or black people.
I don't like my children being used by someone who
has an agenda for my children's minds that I didn't

(48:20):
ask me about. So when you have all these young
black people hate Israel the almost starting on, they hate Jews,
and nobody's asked the question. But wait, wait a second.
You're young black people. You have the ear of the world.
You could bring both sides together, you could listen to

(48:43):
each side. You could be the broker, you could be
the power player. But no, no, you're just going to
be out here marching on one side of the issue.
On the in the country. You've never seen if somebody
came to the hood trying to tell you we're for
the bloods. You shouldn't be for the crips.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
He said.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
You don't know what you're talking about, but you're somehow
Now in an Instagram Pece hd haver about a country
you've never been to and out here marching and then
driving away allies for your own community. Is this a plan?
Is this a plot? And shouldn't we have a plan?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
What did Malcolm X say? We've been bamboos, We've been tricked,
We've been fool exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
But the great thing about it is because the hearts
of young people, and especially Black people are so open
and are so passionate and so idealistic that justice for
all that core DNA and the diamonds in our community.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I believe that.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
A Black community that knows who it is, can use
technology to heal the world, can en these divides between
Muslims and Jews, can use technology to fix problems, can
actually use our political, cultural and spiritual power to bring
the best out in everybody. And so when you see
me doing stuff it seems incomprehensible, it's because I am.

(49:55):
I believe that deeply in who we are. And so no, no,
I'm not gonna cuss a bunch of people out and
I'm not speaking this person. Know everybody should be blessed
by our presence here because everybody needs it.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Amen, are you prepared to The answer could be no,
we haven't had this conversation. But you told me something
which I thought you claim you learn from me. I

(50:28):
definitely learned from you. You told me something about Uh. Wait,
First of all, I me back up. As smart as
I think I am, and I think I'm relatively smart,
I'm certain definitely nosy as hell and everything right. I
didn't know the difference between Hamas and Palestine until I
went and did some real research. And wait, wait, wait

(50:50):
a minute, these are not These are not the same
people as went into Palestine and with Palestinians ass raped
and pillaged.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And beat and and tortured and assassinated.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Assasismated Palastinian leaders enforced them under their rule and wedged
themselves into a situation between Palestine and UH and Israel,
and then picked fights after they wedged themselves into there
UH and UH. And people don't realize they think that
when they're when they think that when they're hearing Hamas,

(51:26):
that then that the same thing as Palestine is not.
I'm sorry, I got I just say that because you know,
even I could learn. But you have a vision of
what we can agree on. Yes, you want to say
something on that, but you speak at all to what
the items that you think that we can find some
agreement on. Uh, even in this tortured environment we find
ourselves in in the world with regard to blacks, we

(51:49):
don't want to see any war anywhere blacks getting ever
and juice, okay, any of that.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Sure, sure, Well on the Jewish side, there's there's five ages.
There's one age that we're just going to disagree on,
and there's four ages we should agree on. When it
comes to this whole situation, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
black people are not going to support. We're not gonna
support them, and then Jews people should not take that personally.
We didn't support w going into Iraq, we didn't support Vietnam,

(52:21):
doctor King, and we have black people. We're not supporting
no wars, so don't don't don't be mad. We're not
gonna support that. We'll be will be neutral on Ukraine
just because use white folk fight, but we're not gonna
support for fight wars like this, So don't don't ask
us to stop being black. Black people do not support
wars like this. But there's four other ages. There's hostages,

(52:43):
which we came over here as hostages. Just Jackson went
all around the world free in hostages. So we're trying
to free hostages right now to us prison so we
can we can support you when you say you want
your children home, that's not a problem. There's also the
hate crimes that are coming down against Jewish children.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
I'm really staying against.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, just like just like when there's hate crimes against
the Muslims after nine to eleven and with the Muslim band,
just like when the Asians were getting attacked after COVID.
We don't support that. So we understand your your fear
around hate crimes. We can support you on that. Then
there's as we said, Hamas Hamas is not an organization
that we should be supporting. Mendela supported the Palestinian cause,

(53:26):
but he supported Fatah, he supported Arafat, he supported the PO.
He did not support Hamas Hamas was created to fight
the PLO. We say, oh, well, you know, yeah exactly.
We say, oh, well, Mendel, it's for the Palestinians. Well
a second, yeah, but wish Palestinians. Is it's like saying
you're for the Americans, which Americans.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
You know?

Speaker 2 (53:53):
So so yeah, he supported Palestinians, but wish Palestinians. He
didn't support right wing butchers who one imposed the theocracy.
He supported secular Democrats who were trying to get to
one person, one vote. So so Hamas, young black children
should not be fooled to support. Yes, we support armed struggle,
but Nelson Mandela support an armed struggle. No women, no children,

(54:16):
no kidnapped, no rapes, only soldiers in infrastructure. That was
Nelson Mandela and South Africa that was some more on
Michelle and Mozambique that was Augustino Nito and Angola. That
was a milk car Cabral in Guinea Bissau. That was
a black panther party for self defense. Even Malcolm X
said by any means necessary, he never he never heard
a fly. And so we have high effects, high morals.

(54:37):
Hamas does not. That's so no, no to Hamas. And lastly,
a secure homeland for Jews and for Palestinians. Know we
understand that people won't to have a place of their own,
and so no, will not support this humanitarian crisis in God.
But we will support you on hostages, we can support
you on hate crimes, we can support you that Hamas

(54:58):
is not an example for our children and can't say
that you just deserve a homeland. So that's four out
of five. That's prett damn good. And then based on
that we should be able to get back to work
together on opportunity agenda for everybody and a dignity agenda
for everybody, which is in the interest in Black, Jews
and the world. And so right now you've got people

(55:18):
being in the Jewish community now being pulled off into
anti Dei and anti woke and stuff like that, which
is which is the same way. I don't want young
black kids being used by Iran for an anti Jewish agenda.
I don't want Jews being used by the white nationalists
for an anti black agenda. We need to come back
to the table and get back to dignity, democracy and
opportunity for all. That's what we've been about for one

(55:40):
hundred years and we should be about that for the
next hundred. And you will never have a more important
century for the two cultural superpowers of Blacks and Jews
to get together to fight for democracy, dignity and opportunity
than this century, because it could we could have a
new Dark Ages or new Enlightenment. You can be a
new dark agent and will it will come down to what,
as usual, what Blacks and Jews do in large part,

(56:01):
and so that conversation about that alliance, about AI and
just about us, like we had our moment to be
mad at everybody. But I don't think that we need
ten more, twenty more and thirty more years of us
custom now white folk and tell them that they're racist.
I think I think the ones that have gonna agree

(56:23):
have already agreed. I don't think the rest of them
are coming. I'd rather spend the next ten to twenty
years creating a new human civilization with our values at
the center, with our genius at the center, with our
magic at the center. And if I'm misunderstood along the way,
that's the price.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
I'm on the pay. Look, some people would call you
and Uncle Tom without understanding. Uncle Tom was actually a
very He was a good guy. People again, you've been
you've been, You've been fool these read read read reading
is fundamental. The original Uncle Tom was a baller. I mean, dude,

(57:07):
I mean, this dude went to Canada and free. He
was headed his own underground railroad. And then some folks
manipulated that situation. You use social media at that time
in movies, Uh to turn that on its face and
anybody members is the black face, all that kind of
stupid stuff. He had a movie producer. I didn't. He
argued with me about Uncle Tom, like I've done a

(57:28):
movie about it. I want telling you that your movie
was wrong. But look, you are ahead of your time.
And any leader who is worth their salt, uh would
prefer to be respected and liked. Yeah, and uh and
and is even willing to not be respected because they're
standing on and I thank you.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
And before you do, we gotta cloth. Let me just
say one thing. I would be a sellout. I would
be a trader. I would be all those negative things.
If I was working with Republicans to put more black
people in prison, if I was working with Republicans to
put more pollution in my community, if I was working

(58:13):
with Republicans to take education out of my community, I
would be a trader. But I'm working with Republicans, I'm
working with billionaires. I'm working with Wall Street, I'm working
with Silicon Valley, to take people out of prison, to
put solar panels in the community, and to get education
going for us for this new technological age. So yes,

(58:36):
you should ask questions. Like you said, you should be skeptical.
But if a brother or a sister is working with
people who you think is the enemy, but they're getting
the enemy to help you, that's a different a situation
than somebody's working with enemy to hurt you. And I
don't think any Black people that thirty five thousand people
came out of prison not mad at me. The young
people that you helped us educate with AI are not

(58:58):
mad at me. And the people who are trying to
keep black colleges open and plaid scholarships open are not
mad at me for trying to keep the Black and
Jewish community together. And I'm happy when I say I'm happy,
Bess understood, that's bravado. It hurts my feeling. I actually
be in therapy about it. I've cried tears about it,
but my soul is rested. I'm at peace with what

(59:19):
the path that I am walking. I'm not everybody's cup
of tea. People may not agree. It has been very,
very painful, but I finally come to a place John,
where I believe in what I'm doing enough to be
misunderstood by my own people.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
When I show up at places of power, Van Jones
is there. When I show up at places of influence,
Van Jones is there when I raised conversation with thought
leaders about opinions that matter. Van Jones is brought up
when I think about somebody who has gifted one hundred
million dollars. Now I've got four and a half billion
dollars of economic activity, but no one gave me a

(59:55):
thing I had to lend that money. About who gifted
one hundred million dollars with no strings attached. That's just
only one person, Van Jones, And at the time gifted
by the wealthy is the then wealthiest man in the world,
who's no dummy. When I think about somebody who's standing
on principal, Van Jones who comes up comes to mind.

(01:00:15):
When I think about somebody my wife likes and my
reads people really well her life, she lights up like
a Christmas tree. But she Van Jones because she's all
about love and she knows he is too. When I
want to see a good father, I met the son
I met Van jones son. Young people don't play games
they mean to roll their eyes. They will roll their eyes.

(01:00:36):
They disrespect their parents, they will disrespect them in public.
And this man, when Van Jones is talking and he's
off to the side looking at his son, looking at
his dad, is nothing but admiration and love. I mean,
this guy is just like that's my dad, Like my
dad is doing it and rightfully so. And when I
talk to him about his life, it wasn't I didn't
have to beat him into submission. He just needed. All

(01:00:58):
I do was reaffirming what you've already told him. But
he's but he was respectful and considerate. And that young
man that we want to see in black america's been
a father, You've been a friend, You've been a mentor
or so many you've been a help make you're you're
a visionary. You're not perfect. You're not You're not saying
you are. That's not the point. But you're perfectly yourself.
And I wish more people would stop talking about you.

(01:01:21):
By the way, when I brought you Atlanta for a
meeting of black men, it was packed. Everybody wanted to hear.
This is recently, so there is no leadership without conflict,
there is no there is no problems without some with
some friction. So you can't grow without legitimate suffering and friction.
So you're going to be in this crossroads where people
you're you're just ahead of your time. If people may

(01:01:42):
not understand you, and that's okay, and you've made peace
with that. But I want you to know that there's
a lot of people rooting for you, Van Jones, and
I'm just and I want you to shut it up
and listen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Brother, I appreciate this. This is probite the deepest conversation
I've ever had in public. So I appreciate you you
helping me get some of this stuff out. I have
a lot of jelly in the jar. It doesn't always
get out to your point, but this has been and
you know, I have to brag on you. You know,
you've been my leader and my teacher for a very
long time and got some of these spots before I

(01:02:16):
got there and made sure I didn't mess them up,
so which I greatly to appreciate. We can tell those
stories sometimes as well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Well. I love you, man, but I love you. But
it's great with two black men, two straight black men
can say that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Exactly. You say, I love you. None you can do
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
I just call him, send him a note. He man,
I just love you. Thing you can do about it,
but take it. Yeah, look, everybody, this has been a
special edition of Money and Wealth with John O'Briant and
my friend Van Jones. And you say, what does this
have to do with money and wealth? If you don't
get that message, then you don't understand what wealth really is.

(01:02:58):
Wealth is actually a mindset.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
It's a mindset.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
It's a mindset. And I mean, we just gave you
a mouthful of mindset. And I'm gonna drop the mic
with this because because because Van Jones is very good
friends with somebody I admire named jay Z. Jayson did
an album called four four four which most people don't understand.
It's a financial literacy album. It's like the it's like
The Matrix in music. It's like the movie The Matrix

(01:03:22):
in music. And one of the clips was I'm gonna
give you a million dollars worth of game, but nine
nine this cost of the album. You got a million
dollars worth of game, you got one hundred millions with
the game, or the cost of your time. And make
sure it pays dividends by sharing this audio conversation and

(01:03:43):
in video conversation with your friends, with your loved ones,
with people who may not understand this man who and
when you're when you're listening, when they're listening, to tell
him to shut their mouth and open their ears because
God gave you two ears and one mouth. So you
listen twice as much as you talk. And if you
don't and at the end of it, if you don't
talk for an hour, at the end of it, you
don't agree with Evans, then shut them down. But let's

(01:04:04):
stop saying, don't bother me with the facts. I've already
made up my mind. That's not a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Much love.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Thank you, brother. Money and Wealth with John O'Brien is
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more

(01:04:32):
podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

(01:06:00):
The deput